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01:24 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [sp] k2 (Arc Hum Mal Law) had a curved sword bestowed upon him by Quetzalcoatl, on T:19102
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01:44 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [sp] k2 (Arc Hum Mal Law), 80755 points, T:20900, killed by a Woodland-elf, while sleeping
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02:28 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [sp] k2 (Arc Hum Mal Law), 274 points, T:563, killed by a dwarf
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06:29 <LarienTelrunya> raisse: thanks for https://nhqdb.alt.org/?2510 :) the "it explodes!" jokes always put a smile on my face
06:37 <raisse> exploding money, too!
06:38 <raisse> that was a new one for me
06:38 <raisse> I've had my share of exploding corpses, and thin air
06:38 <LarienTelrunya> YASI: kamikaze cockatrice. Explodes and petrifies everything in a 3x3 area centered around it.
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08:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [sp] Delraven (Arc Elf Fem Neu), 126 points, T:272, killed by a jackal
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09:02 <deadnoob> my tnnt config is erroring and saying `OPTIONS=sparkle:FALSE` isn't valid, how did I mess up the syntax?
09:12 <aosdict> deadnoob: boolean options don't specify TRUE or FALSE as literal strings
09:12 <aosdict> use OPTIONS=!sparkle
09:12 <aosdict> or OPTIONS=nosparkle
09:12 <deadnoob> ty
09:24 <bhaak> aosdict: I've been playing around yesterday with 256 colors in nethack. another user had an issue with "invisible" objects due to the black-on-black hack.
09:25 <bhaak> aosdict: just adding a line in win/tty/termcap.c in init_hilite() like this would "fix" it: hilites[CLR_BLACK] = "\033[38;5;241m";
09:26 <bhaak> if you stay within the 16 colors nethack uses, you could go rather nuts with using 256 colors or even 24 bit escape sequences if you'd want to
09:30 <aosdict> Hmm. I guess I've known it was possible for the game to define and use its own colors since nh4 variants and the curses interface do that
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09:31 <aosdict> So, you're saying that it could use 16 colors, but those 16 colors could be any 24-bit color values?
09:31 <aosdict> s/could use/would have to use/
09:31 <bhaak> but nh4 and variants are closer to the way curses is doing it. I wasn't aware that you could easily switch out the used color sequences
09:31 <bhaak> yeah, exactly
09:32 <bhaak> of course, you could already do that if you configure your terminal :-) but how many players actually do that?
09:39 <aosdict> Well, I have colors in my terminal set up the way I like them for nethack
09:40 <bhaak> you're not a normal player, you're a programmer
09:40 <aosdict> I'm rather annoyed with the curses interface and nh4 saying "no, you can't use the default color scheme, you have to use this one / one of these ones", honestly
09:40 <bhaak> hmm, the curses interface does that, too? really?
09:41 <bhaak> nh4 is the opinionated nethack variant :)
09:41 <bhaak> oh, you're right.
09:46 <bhaak> the only way I see to make the curses interface not do it would be to build a new termcap info that has "can_change" set to FALSE
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10:01 <aosdict> bhaak: One thing I've always wondered is why the cap at 16/17 colors? Games like Brogue appear to have full (or at least 256) color support.
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10:20 <bhaak> aosdict: for nethack? when color support was implemented, I guess there were no terminals that supported more or at least the most widely used terminals only supported those 16.
10:20 <bhaak> IIRC I once saw the original patch for that in RGRN
10:25 <PavelB> bhaak: I've gotten a pretty strong impression that a normal NetHack player is a programmer.
10:26 <aosdict> eh, there are plenty who aren't
10:27 <aosdict> it would be a bad mistake to assume only technical people play nethack
10:27 <rld> <@Luxidream> most people just press buttons and letters move around on the screen
10:27 <rld> <@Luxidream> source: experience
10:28 <aosdict> and a lot of people just want to download nethackw.exe and have it work out of the box with tiles
10:28 <bhaak> PavelB: that's only IRC bias :-)
10:28 <bhaak> hmm, didn't find the posting I was referring to but an old posting of mine where I stated "[...] it seems monster colors in the modern sense were introduced in NetHack 3.0.4, released in 1989.  (2.2e and later had color, but all monsters were colored the same.)"
10:29 <PavelB> To be fair, the tiles people aren't fiddling with terminal settings :P
10:30 <bhaak> yeah but nethackw.exe also allows you to play with an ASCII/IBMgraphics display
10:30 <rld> <@Luxidream> wonder how much of the community servers  miss by not having tiles
10:30 <aosdict> #nethack still regularly gets people wanting to play with tiles on a server
10:31 <aosdict> and we have to tell them "well it worked in NAO on 3.4.3, but not now..."
10:31 <rld> <@Luxidream> does it work on 3.4.3 hdf?
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10:37 <aosdict> No, for a few reasons: the vt_tiledata patch which enables tile data to be sent remotely is finicky, someone on hdf would have to set up whatever NAO used, and I don't think whatever NAO used is even publicly available.
10:37 <PavelB> 3.6.1 still ships with nethackw.exe, no?
10:38 <aosdict> PavelB: yeah it does, but we're talking about tiles on a server
10:38 <PavelB> What changed between 3.4.3 and 3.6.x to make it not work anymore?
10:39 <aosdict> Same thing as a bunch of other 3.4.3 patches and all 3.4.3 variants: big code refactorings broke stuff
10:39 <aosdict> wait
10:39 <aosdict> the vt_tiledata page on the wiki says it was added to 3.6.1 vanill
10:41 <aosdict> by paxed apparently
10:42 <aosdict> yeah maybe K2 should add webhack then
10:45 <bhaak> aosdict: looks like nethack always wanted 16 colors, at least on unix.
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11:28 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 7117 points, T:3026, quit
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11:54 <PavelB> !who
11:54 <Beholder> PavelB: [hdf-us] hypnotist [nh362] | [hdf-eu] spontiff [nh362] docholi [nh362] | [hdf-au] No current players
11:54 <PavelB> !whereis hypnotist
11:54 <Beholder> PavelB: [hdf-us] hypnotist [nh362]: (Ran Hum Fem Neu) T:56972 Gehennom level: 32
12:12 <oh6> aaand tnnt broke again at ludios
12:13 <aosdict> K2: would love some core dumps
12:15 <oh6> I got a stack trace when I tried to save
12:16 <oh6> see the end of https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/o/oh6/tnnt/ttyrec/2018-10-08.16:10:29.ttyrec.gz
12:17 <aosdict> would rather have a core dump, that doesn't require me wading into ttyrecs :)
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12:21 <oh6> well, I can tell you that it got a signal during a call to (stuff) called from newsym() from vision_recalc() from dosave(), but I know what you mean
12:22 <jonadab> My problem with ttyrecs is that they don't seem to directly record input, only output.  So you can't search for something the user typed, only for something the game said.
12:22 <jonadab> However, in the case of a stack trace, you can probably find that pretty easily.
12:23 <oh6> k2: in any case, I am getting "destroy old game" when I try to start tnnt on hdf-us
12:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] bouquet (Val Dwa Fem Law), 87104 points, T:22288, killed by Durin's Bane
12:34 <oh6> ok, off to work
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12:35 <hothraxxa> you're working on turkey day?
12:36 <PavelB> Turkey day?
12:38 <PavelB> Oh, today's Columbus Day/Indigenous Peoples' Day
12:38 <K2> oh6 one sec
12:39 <PavelB> I don't think that's a major enough holiday
12:39 <K2> oh6: game recovered
12:39 <K2> aosdict: link to backtrace in the dev channel
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12:57 <hothraxxa> pavelb: oh6 and i live in canada. today is thanksgiving. most businesses are closed
12:57 <PavelB> Ah
12:59 <rld> <@Demo> why don't Canadians know when thanksgiving is?
13:01 <PavelB> I am super hyped for Thanksgiving this year. I managed to get a bunch of my friends to not have any plans for the Friday after, aquired Axis & Allies 1940 Europe *and* Pacific, and we'll be playing Global the whole day. Complete victory city capture. Should take a while ;)
13:01 <PavelB> I just need to find a surface large enough for the whole board
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13:01 <K2> nice
13:02 <raisse> canadians do know when thanksgiving is, their own, at least
13:02 <PavelB> I've never managed to pull it off before but it's supposedly estimated to take 11 hours for one game
13:03 <raisse> the USA isn't the only country in the world </pet peeve>
13:03 <hothraxxa> the origins of thanksgiving day as we understand it are unclear. there are some who believe that the first north american thanksgiving happened in canada not the us
13:03 <hothraxxa> also thsnkdgiving days were common in england back in the days of the reformation
13:04 <PavelB> Are those "some" all Canadians by any chance :P
13:04 <hothraxxa> not at all
13:05 <Pinkbeast> hothraxxa: We still have Harvest Festival (well, C of E types do)
13:05 <hothraxxa> i think annual harvest feasts are ancient
13:05 <rld> <@Demo> if you aren't usa you aren't right yeehaw
13:05 <hothraxxa> it only makes sense
13:05 <PavelB> Thanksgiving to me feels like a somewhat pointless holliday. What is it even celebrating. But it gives me two days off school, so I'm cool with it.
13:05 <rld> <@Demo> yeah goddammit Mesopotamians don't know when thanksgiving is either
13:05 <Pinkbeast> PavelB: Murdering people and nicking their countries, a grand tradition
13:05 <rld> <@Demo> fun for the whole family
13:06 <hothraxxa> what pinkbeast said is sadly true. we get an annual workover of our consciences here because of that
13:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Flan99 (Ana Dwa Fem Cha), 9588 points, T:1813, quit
13:07 <rld> <@Demo> instead of pin the tail on the donkey we play pin the smallpox on the natives for thanksgiving to keep it in a real and true vibe
13:07 <Pinkbeast> hothraxxa: To be fair "Columbus Day" sounds more in that line :-)
13:07 <hothraxxa> well columbus never had anything to do wqith the us, as you probably know. he never landed on the continent
13:08 <rld> <@Demo> is it Columbus day today?
13:08 <K2> yes
13:08 <PavelB> In Seattle we celebrate Indigenous Peoples' Day instead of Columbus Day
13:08 <hothraxxa> to the point
13:09 <PavelB> I'm sure other places do by now too
13:09 <rld> <@Demo> shit I need to celebrate
13:09 <K2> or 'Indigenous people day'
13:09 <hothraxxa> i hope so
13:09 <Pinkbeast> Leif Erikson Day?
13:09 <hothraxxa> heh
13:09 <hothraxxa> i've been to his settlement
13:10 <PavelB> Vinland?
13:10 <PavelB> (I think it was called?)
13:10 <hothraxxa> the location of vinland is in dispute
13:10 <rld> <@Demo> I'm gonna celebrate indignant people day ok
13:11 <Pinkbeast> For you, Demo, every day is indignant people day
13:11 <PavelB> I'm sure the indigenous people were, in fact, indignant
13:11 <hothraxxa> i meant lanse aux meadows, which was a genuine viking settlement from around 1000 ad (iirc)
13:13 <Pinkbeast> And also in "the true North, big and cold"
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13:14 <rld> <@Demo> yeah vikings are way cooler than lame Italian traitors
13:14 <rld> <@Demo> they don't try to justify killing people with anything but violence
13:14 <rld> <@Demo> which is way less of a weenie move
13:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Asmodeus, on T:60099
13:17 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Baalzebub, on T:60134
13:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Orcus, on T:60169
13:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:60276
13:22 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:60375
13:24 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) wished for "the blessed greased fireproof +3 T-shirt named Greasytee", on T:60447
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13:58 <bouquet> for Thanksgiving we celebrate the overstuffing of our bellies. 
14:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Flan99 (Bin Gno Fem Non), 0 points, T:105, killed by a goblin
14:12 <aosdict> american thanksgiving is a lot less commercialized than the holidays it sits between, halloween and christmas, it seems
14:13 <aosdict> I mean, black friday is a thing, but that's not intrinsically part of thanksgiving right?
14:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) became literate by writing a scroll, on T:3636
14:15 <Pinkbeast> I was sorry when Halloween and Guy Fawkes lost their valiant rearguard action against Christmas in October
14:18 <oh6> we had thanksgiving dinner yesterday, at a restaurant - it was OK but not great - would have done better to have the place's regular entrees
14:19 <oh6> and in fact the short ribs I made on saturday were better, but well, short ribs, not really surprising
14:20 <aosdict> Pinkbeast: When I went to a grocery store today I saw them selling eggnog. This was conflicting, because I love eggnog.
14:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Flan99 (Bin Dwa Mal Non), 127 points, T:819, killed by a sewer rat
14:20 <Pinkbeast> aosdict: I have a similar conflict with Christmas pudding
14:21 <bouquet> We've gotten lazy. We have a local catering company prepare about 50% of the dishes for us. We supplement the other 50% on our own. Turns out professional chefs make a better turkey than me, who knew?!
14:22 <oh6> we knew the resto had cheaped out when they didn't have dark meat - meant they hadn't actually roasted a bird
14:23 <aosdict> being a good cook but also vegetarian means I can freely tell everyone I have no idea how to cook meat, including turkey if anyone asks
14:24 <Pinkbeast> PS if you've got the cash get goose not turkey
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15:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) performed her first genocide (master mind flayer), on T:67869
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15:24 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Scorpius, on T:67916
15:24 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:67917
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15:35 <raisse> Pinkbeast: completely agree with you about goose
15:35 <raisse> goose is sort of hard to get here since the good poulterer retired though
15:37 <Pinkbeast> The good butcher here does it, or did last time we had it
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15:37 <raisse> duck is much easier (the asian shop has frozen domestic ducks all year, and the poultry-and game stall in the market has game ducks in season
15:38 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:68789
15:38 <raisse> (I send them email a week before and they get it for me; might try a goose for Christmas)
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15:39 <Pinkbeast> Tho' Clare usually does beef for not-Christmas because we tend to have a dozen people and cows come in conveniently large sizes
15:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:68822
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15:42 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) performed the invocation, on T:69009
15:43 <bouquet> good idea! My cow orker raises geese. Maybe I'll get lucky and he'll pluck one for me.
15:45 <aosdict> how exactly does one ork a cow?
15:45 <aosdict> :P
15:50 <bouquet> First, you get a magic harp...
15:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:69449
15:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:69454
15:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] PavelB (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) murdered Chomusuke, his faithful kitten, on T:768
15:58 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:70135
15:58 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] PavelB (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 216 points, T:774, killed by Ms. Klodzko; the shopkeeper
16:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] PavelB (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 120 points, T:170, killed by a shuriken
16:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:71516
16:17 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] PavelB (Val Dwa Fem Law) performed her first genocide (green slime), on T:146
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16:22 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) entered the Planes, on T:71720
16:22 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:71720
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16:30 <rld> <@IceBox> it is possible to reliably get through the early game with the squishier classes without a heavy reliance on your pet?
16:30 <rld> <@IceBox> the pet is just so tedious at times, i have hard time with the patience
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16:31 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Death, on T:72089
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16:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Death, on T:72195
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16:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Death, on T:72216
16:38 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Death, on T:72237
16:38 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Death, on T:72251
16:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Famine, on T:72270
16:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Death, on T:72276
16:40 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Famine, on T:72291
16:41 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Famine, on T:72305
16:41 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Death, on T:72312
16:41 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Famine, on T:72320
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16:42 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Death, on T:72336
16:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Famine, on T:72339
16:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed Death, on T:72348
16:43 <introsp3ctive> @IceBox it is provided you take your time and play carefully. I generally abandon my pet within the first five or so levels. 
16:44 <rld> <@IceBox> hypnotist:
16:44 <rld> <IceBox> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/498958996280049694/2Q.png
16:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Neu), 4377748 points, T:72358, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/h/hypnotist/nh361/dumplog/1538668084.nh361.txt
16:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] bouquet (Pri Hum Fem Neu), 1488 points, T:2645, killed by a rothe, while fainted from lack of food
16:47 <rld> <@IceBox> grats!
17:12 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slshm] Bard (Yeo Hum Mal Law), 680 points, T:1444, killed by a giant bat
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17:50 <introsp3ctive> Team B is doing work today!
18:01 <K2> heh yeah they are
18:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] Leeroy (Tha Ang Mal Law), 27576 points, T:4702, killed by brainlessness
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18:16 <bouquet> found a tnnt bug: I died like a newb. Gotta be a bug. Couldn't be my lack of skill.
18:17 <rld> <@IceBox> i'm also experiencing that bug
18:17 <rld> <@IceBox> really kinda a game breaker
18:22 <bouquet> +1^
18:24 <K2> ;)
18:36 <Chris_ANG> YANI: customizable "hat" armor that works like the "slime mold" fruit (ie, you give it a name, and any found in your bones files have that name).  Could also absorb the "fedora" from the Archeologist role.
18:36 <Chris_ANG> (There have been a *lot* of basically-interchangeable hats throughout history)
18:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Rog Hum Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a winter wolf, on T:9089
18:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 20831 points, T:9225, killed by a leocrotta
18:49 <rld> <@Tone> @IceBox You kind of have to rely on Elbereth and ranged attacks until you get something to get you going, whether that's a decent piece of armor, a nice weapon, a reliable escape item, a good attack wand, etc.
18:49 <rld> <@IceBox> got a little intrinsic speed, and just found a shop with a death/wishing wand so trying to figure out how to proceed
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18:49 <rld> <@IceBox> oh yeah robes cancel one piece of metal armor, right?
18:50 <rld> <@Tone> I don't think it's that simplistic
18:50 <rld> <@IceBox> oh yeah i'm sure, i'm just trying to say some intrinsic speed probably helps
18:50 <rld> <@Tone> I meant the robes thing
18:50 <rld> <@Tone> speed is great
18:51 <rld> <@Tone> let's you reliably run away from a lot of things
18:51 <rld> <@Tone> lets*
18:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Arc Hum Mal Law), 696 points, T:1205, killed by a bolt of fire
18:51 <rld> <@IceBox> ah right, yeah the robes reduce the penalty by half OR increase your power if you dont have any metal armor
18:52 <rld> <@Tone> back in the day my rule of thumb for $500 wands was to just zap it at the shopkeeper
18:53 <rld> <@Tone> and if it was wishing then I'd wish for something to safely get me out of there (after charging scrolls)
18:53 <aosdict> I would just save up / sell extra stuff to get it legally
18:53 <aosdict> then you don't have to burn any wishes
18:53 <rld> <@Tone> haven't seen one in a while though and I don't think that's what I'd do nowadays, but it was a fun way to handle the situation
18:54 <rld> <@IceBox> haha yeah, i'm hoping i can survive long enough to pay my dues
18:54 <rld> <@Tone> Yes exactly aosdict, that would be my priority today
18:54 <aosdict> Or, just steal it if I was capable. Anything to not waste a wish.
18:54 <rld> <@IceBox> DSM doesn't count as metal armor but mithril is, right?
18:54 <rld> <@Tone> correct
18:55 <rld> <@shadowsapex> $500 wand?
18:55 <rld> <@shadowsapex> get pet to steal repeatedly until shopkeep is broke
18:55 <rld> <@IceBox> MY CAT STOLE IT FOR ME
18:55 <rld> <@IceBox> I STILL HATE CATS, BUT THANKS LITTLE DUDE
18:55 <rld> <@shadowsapex> good cat
18:57 <rld> <@IceBox> time to see what it is, taking guesses
18:57 <rld> <@IceBox> much more likely that it's death, right?
18:58 <rld> <@IceBox> it was death
18:58 <aosdict> it's actually equally likely
18:58 <aosdict> 1/200 for each
18:58 <rld> <@IceBox> oh snap, good to know
18:59 <aosdict> nethack russian roulette: find a random unidentified $500 wand, and zap it at yourself.
18:59 <rld> <@Luxidream> You see more death because it’s an eligible offensive item for enemies of a high enough level
18:59 <aosdict> @Luxidream theory vs practice heh
18:59 <rld> <@IceBox> yeah that must be it, i had a record 4 WoD last run
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19:05 <bouquet> is there a reason gnomes can't be priests?
19:06 <bouquet> like, in lore or something?
19:06 <aosdict> doubt it
19:12 <rld> <@Luxidream> demonic creatures can’t become priests
19:21 <rld> <@IceBox> oh come on your whole stack of daggers corrodes if you hit a green mold?
19:24 <rld> <@shadowsapex> til character is actually stabbing things with half a dozen daggers at once 🤔
19:24 <rld> <@shadowsapex> maybe they're pretending to be wolverine
19:26 <rld> <@Luxidream> Icebox: #adjust so you only wield one dagger
19:26 <rld> <@Luxidream> then you can name it something and keep it from stacking
19:27 <rld> <@IceBox> i've tried the adjust splitting thing, i think it's busted in curses or something
19:27 <rld> <@IceBox> you can still do it the manual naming-dropping-picking up way though
19:27 <rld> <@IceBox> splitting would be nice
19:28 <rld> <@Luxidream> Hm, let me try it. I don’t recall having any issues
19:30 <rld> <@IceBox> yeah lemme know if it works, cuz i cant remember exactly what, but i explicitly tested it and found it broken
19:35 <rld> <@IceBox> if you kill a shopkeep in minetown do all guards auto aggro, or can you lock the door and do the biz?
19:36 <Muad> i'm pretty sure they do.
19:38 <rld> <@Luxidream> If you dig random holes in minetown the guards will follow you when you jump down
19:39 <rld> <@Luxidream> it’s a good way of getting rid of them, or isolating one for murder
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20:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] PavelB (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 82 points, T:318, killed by handling a lock pick
20:11 <rld> <@IceBox> What ^
20:12 <PavelB> Well you see, in xnh elves take a small amount of damage from touching iron
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20:33 <rld> <@IceBox> Haha that's hilarious
20:35 <aosdict> first death for cold iron? first death for cold iron.
20:36 <aosdict> better get yourself a plastic lock pick. or a glass one
20:42 <aosdict> Hmm, this will probably inflate the incentive to play xnethack to grab unique deaths next junethack... I don't have a problem with that
20:44 <rld> <@Tone> You could already do that in dnethack, couldn't you?
20:44 <rld> <@Tone> ah but not as many random material items
20:45 <rld> <@rikersan> yes, and it's not the same
20:45 <rld> <@rikersan> dnh doens't have a flat damage pen for touching iron, just being hit by it increases by 1d(your level) and wearing/weidling it raw has a regen penalty
20:45 <rld> <@Tone> yeah I was also wondering if it was only from weapons
20:45 <aosdict> damage you take *increases* as *you* level up?
20:45 <rld> <@Tone> Elves get "itchy" when they wear iron, right?
20:46 <rld> <@Tone> or something like that
20:46 <aosdict> Yes.
20:46 <rld> <@rikersan> or wielding without gloves
20:46 <rld> <@rikersan> same with vampires and silver or blessed items
20:46 <aosdict> the xnh behavior is to give a damage penalty when first wearing but otherwise no ill effect
20:46 <rld> <@Tone> What is the damage, aosdict?
20:46 <aosdict> 1d6 I think
20:47 <rld> <@Tone> ah, not bad
20:47 <aosdict> no, 1d6/2
20:47 <rld> <@Tone> pretty negligible actually
20:47 <PavelB> How is that different from 1d3
20:48 <aosdict> because integer division
20:48 <PavelB> Ah
20:48 <aosdict> @Tone a dnh-like regen penalty is on hold until I'm confident that it doesn't already punish elves enough
20:49 <rld> <@rikersan> I like the regen because it kinda makes it unviable for the majority of the early-mid game
20:50 <aosdict> Yeah, I like the idea of regen penalties, I just couldn't have the bad flavor of "elves can't even pick up an iron sword by the handle without getting hurt" and also "elves can put on a iron helmet around their whole head and not get hurt directly"
20:50 <rld> <@rikersan> yea I get it
20:50 <rld> <@rikersan> I like regen because of the flavoring of blocking the lifefroce
20:52 <PavelB> > Francis Grose's 1811 Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue defines cold iron as "A sword, or any other weapon for cutting or stabbing."
20:53 <PavelB> Therefore, "cold iron" doesn't actually have anything to do with the material itself.
20:53 <PavelB> TIL
20:53 <aosdict> yeah but this is one place where we draw on D&D as well as conventional lore
20:55 <PavelB> Iron isn't in any way signficant for elves in D&D
20:55 <PavelB> I'm pretty sure it's just a LotR thing
20:56 <rld> <@Tone> Cold iron has special properties in D&D I think
20:56 <rld> <@rikersan> and other mythology
20:56 <rld> <@Tone> I know it does in Pathfinder at least
20:56 <rld> <@rikersan> cold iron and running water vs fay isn't anything new
20:58 <PavelB> > Iron, Cold
20:58 <PavelB> > This iron, mined deep underground, known for its effectiveness against fey creatures, is forged at a lower temperature to preserve its delicate properties. Weapons made of cold iron cost twice as much to make as their normal counterparts. Also, any magical enhancements cost an additional 2,000 gp.
20:58 <PavelB> > Items without metal parts cannot be made from cold iron. An arrow could be made of cold iron, but a quarterstaff could not.
20:58 <PavelB> > A double weapon that has only half of it made of cold iron increases its cost by 50%.
20:58 <PavelB> > Cold iron has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 10.
20:58 <PavelB> D&D System Reference Document
20:58 <aosdict> PavelB: Here, think of Pratchett-style elves rather than Tolkien-style elves.
20:58 <PavelB> Fey, not elves
20:59 <rld> <@rikersan> > fey step
20:59 <rld> <@rikersan> > fey ancestry
20:59 <rld> <@rikersan> ...
20:59 <aosdict> Aren't D&D elves fey creatures?
21:00 <PavelB> Not technically, although D&D itself seems to get confused about it a bunch, as Riker points out
21:01 <PavelB> Also not that nowhere in the SRD does it say *how* it's more effective against Fey. It doesn't do additional damage or cause status effects or anything.
21:01 <PavelB> *note
21:02 <rld> <@rikersan> as a DM i'd rule it wards them off, I wouldn't add damage or anything
21:02 <rld> <@rikersan> cuz AC vs DR and all that, iron should really only deal straight damage if it directly touches them
21:02 <rld> <@rikersan> aosdict: do gloves waive picking up iron penalties?
21:02 <aosdict> Actually, I don't think there are any penalties for picking up iron at the moment.
21:02 <PavelB> iirc yes
21:03 <PavelB> Well, for wielding
21:03 <rld> <@rikersan> that should be changed probably
21:03 <rld> <@rikersan> again unlses gloves apply there
21:03 <aosdict> @rikersan FWIW, in vanilla I can turn into a vampire and repeatedly pick up and drop a silver dagger without gloves...
21:03 <rld> <@rikersan> hm
21:03 <aosdict> so xnh is at least consistent with that
21:13 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Arc Hum Mal Law) had a club bestowed upon him by Quetzalcoatl, on T:4558
21:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Val Hum Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:11355
21:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Val Hum Fem Neu), 21040 points, T:11369, killed by a dwarf lord
21:45 <Chris_ANG> PavelB: Fey creatures with damage reduction tend to take full damage from Cold Iron weapons.
21:46 <Chris_ANG> @rikersan: Elves became more-firmly Fey as the editions went on.  I think fey step originated in 4th edition?
21:47 <rld> <@rikersan> hm
21:47 <rld> <@rikersan> by full dmg you mean like 6 instead of 1d6?
21:47 <Chris_ANG> No, like, some creatures have "DR: 5/cold iron" in their stats.
21:48 <Chris_ANG> Which means that creature takes 5 less damage from any weapon that isn't cold iron.
21:48 <Chris_ANG> Not sure how many fey even have that, though.  My memory is that in practice cold iron was for fighting demons.
21:49 <PavelB> And silver is for devils
21:49 <PavelB> Which is a great way of confusing players, since no one can keep track of what's a demon and what's a devil
21:49 <Chris_ANG> ...Maybe we just fought more demons than fey.  I see that the Dryad SRD entry has cold iron.
21:51 * Chris_ANG totally can :P
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22:08 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:7944
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22:29 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh362] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed the Oracle, on T:9764
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