00:05 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given Frost Brand, on T:15856 00:14 [hdf-us] [nh362] ptaff (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:61301 00:18 [hdf-us] [nh4] Ainz Ooal Gown (Luxidream) (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 281450 points, T:63168, ascended, in polyinit mode https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/nethack4/dumplog/2018-09-03%2004%3A18%3A55%2C%20Ainz%20Ooal%20Gown-Wiz-Hum-Fem-Cha%2C%20ascended.txt 00:19 <@Luxidream> "In return for thy service, I grant thee the gift of Eternal Power!" 00:20 @Luxidream I approve of this character name 00:20 That's great 00:21 <@Luxidream> "Ainz Ooal Gown the Necromancer" 00:21 <@Luxidream> he is also a lich :p 00:24 10/10 use of polyinit 00:25 aosdict: The xnethack splash screen says "See license for details." twice. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/rqLxKcON/image.png 00:31 [hdf-us] [nh362] ptaff (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:61745 00:32 [hdf-us] [nh362] ptaff (Rog Hum Mal Cha) entered the Planes, on T:61764 00:32 [hdf-us] [nh362] ptaff (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:61765 00:43 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given Helping Hand, on T:17516 00:45 [hdf-us] [nh362] ptaff (Rog Hum Mal Cha) genocided class ;, on T:61977 00:54 [hdf-us] [nh362] ptaff (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed Famine, on T:62147 00:58 [hdf-us] [nh362] ptaff (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed the high priest of Mog, on T:62180 01:00 [hdf-us] [nh362] ptaff (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed Famine, on T:62203 01:01 [hdf-us] [nh362] ptaff (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed Death, on T:62222 01:03 [hdf-us] [nh362] ptaff (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 2039390 points, T:62246, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/p/ptaff/nh361/dumplog/1535762561.nh361.txt 01:45 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:45 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 01:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given their Quest, on T:18748 01:56 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) killed Ashikaga Takauji, on T:19325 01:57 -!- elenmirie__ has joined #hardfought 02:01 -!- elenmirie__ has quit [Client Quit] 02:21 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 02:21 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 02:33 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law), 309778 points, T:21450, petrified by a cockatrice 03:29 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Quit: two forces in balance \\ ancient endless balance \\ then nothing] 03:36 -!- MiseryMyra has joined #hardfought 04:35 -!- greqrg has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:22 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.2] 05:24 -!- Chords has joined #hardfought 05:26 -!- Chords has quit [Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 05:29 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 05:30 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:30 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:32 -!- introsp3ctive has joined #hardfought 05:34 !tell K2 awesome, many thanks for deploying slex 2.32! it works ♥ now I can play via hterm! thanks again! 05:34 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 05:43 -!- PeterQ has joined #hardfought 05:44 !who 05:44 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] Vis [dnh] vid [un] | [hdf-eu] elenmirie [nh362] | [hdf-au] No current players 05:45 ah the who command doesn't show slex 2.32 yet 05:51 -!- bigpet21 has joined #hardfought 05:53 -!- bigpet21 has quit [Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 06:19 [hdf-us] [un] vid (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the ghost of arnibald, the former Ronin, on T:65604 06:34 -!- lel has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:39 -!- lel has joined #hardfought 06:55 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:00 -!- eady has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:05 -!- aoei has joined #hardfought 07:05 You see here a thonged club. A shiver runs up and down your spine! 07:05 the Aklys of Doom! 07:16 -!- aoei has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:16 -!- aoei has joined #hardfought 07:24 <@Theyflower> Artifact aklys 07:27 <@Theyflower> Yasi: artifact boomerang that stays in your hand when thrown and creates an amount of regular boomerangs of equivalent enchantment equal to your multishot bonus and then causes those to be thrown and then destroyed if they enter a creature inventory or the floor 07:37 -!- hothraxxa has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:46 -!- hothraxxa has joined #hardfought 07:46 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v hothraxxa] by ChanServ 08:19 -!- aoei has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:32 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 08:45 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:46 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 08:46 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 09:02 [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 950 points, T:2358, killed by a large mimic 09:14 [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 198 points, T:786, killed by a small mimic 09:19 !who 09:19 K2: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-09-03 05:34 EDT: awesome, many thanks for deploying slex 2.32! it works ♥ now I can play via hterm! thanks again! 09:19 K2: [hdf-us] Vis [dnh] SkydiveMike [nh362] barleywine [nh362] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] No current players 09:26 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 09:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given the Kiku-ichimonji, on T:3978 09:28 [hdf-us] [nh362] SkydiveMike (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 413 points, T:1159, killed by a magical explosion 09:29 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:4162 09:31 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:51 -!- dell30 has joined #hardfought 09:55 [hdf-us] [fh] ebx (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 10860 points, T:416, killed by a goblin 09:57 [hdf-us] [nh343] k2 (Val Hum Fem Law), 3053 points, T:1826, killed by a pony 09:58 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 10:01 [hdf-us] [nh343] k2 (Val Hum Fem Law) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:356 10:01 \o/ 10:12 [hdf-us] [fh] ebx (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 16839 points, T:918, killed by a goblin 10:28 -!- diz8 has joined #hardfought 10:28 -!- diz8 has quit [Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 10:29 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:43 NetHack 3.4.3 (hdf) updated (all servers) 10:43 ^ livelogging 10:55 pfft 10:56 if you decapitate something while male and hallucinating 10:56 "Good job Henry, but that wasn't Anne." 10:57 heh 10:58 -!- fkz2 has joined #hardfought 10:58 -!- fkz2 has quit [Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 11:00 K2: You mean livelogging for 3.4.3 or liveloggine for xnh+SLEX+343? 11:01 [10:43] <@K2> NetHack 3.4.3 (hdf) updated (all servers) 11:01 [10:43] <@K2> ^ livelogging 11:01 Yeah I wasn't sure how to interpret that 11:02 ;) 11:02 slexnh 3.4.3 11:03 oh god what have I done 11:03 you cant take that back! 11:04 oops, almost forgot to update beholder 11:04 brb 11:04 heh, I'm playing slex right now and standing on an engraving that reads "Not surprising... SLEX, the variant where no means yes." (huh, Mandevil's not here?) 11:07 Hmm, do any banes have elemental damage in vanilla? 11:08 doesn't look like it 11:12 K2: Yeah, beholder was what I meant. When you updated xnh yesterday you mentioned you hadn't updated beholder for 0.4.0 yet. 11:14 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 11:14 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 11:14 -!- mode/Beholder [+RZi] by Beholder 11:14 -!- card.freenode.net changed the topic on #hardfought to: Welcome to Hardfought - https://www.hardfought.org/ - public irc logs available on website ¤ Public NetHack server - ssh nethack@hardfought.org, nethack@eu.hardfought.org or nethack@au.hardfought.org ¤ Freenode is now setting +R to all new connections; please identify with NickServ, otherwise you will not be able to talk 11:14 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Beholder] by ChanServ 11:14 !ping 11:14 K2: Pong! 11:14 !gnoP 11:14 aw 11:16 alrighty 11:16 beholder updated 11:18 !tell stenno I added livelogging to nh343-hdf :P 11:18 Will do, K2! 11:19 [hdf-us] [spl] Luxidream (Rog Mer Mal Neu) rejected atheism by offering a hill orc corpse on an altar of Moloch, on T:3347 11:24 [hdf-us] [nh362] samiam (Arc Hum Mal Law), 5 points, T:93, killed by a falling rock 11:28 [hdf-us] [spl] Luxidream (Rog Mer Mal Neu) had Cleaver bestowed upon him by Mog, on T:5190 11:38 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) completed Sokoban, on T:10459 11:46 [hdf-us] [spl] Luxidream (Rog Mer Mal Neu), 14153 points, T:8930, killed by a death ray 11:46 doh 11:46 <@Luxidream> fair 11:54 blah I see I amde some errors in the livelog patch for 343-hdf 11:54 *made 11:54 easy fix though 11:56 Hmm, should I wear Dwarvish boots (2 AC) or jumping boots (1 AC and jumping) 11:56 jumping 11:56 1 point of AC isnt significant imo 11:57 I've never had jumping so I don't know how useful it is 11:57 it can get you out of a hairy situation 11:57 and you can jump over traps that are in your way 11:57 It's great if you use it, particularly at the point where you want to fight nothing if you can avoid it 11:57 YANI: If you enchant multiple worm teeth into a single crysknife, the enchantment is increased by 1 point for each tooth involved, up to a maximum of +9 or something. 11:58 each additional tooth involved* 11:58 if you use it> whereas you will use a point of AC whether you remember it's there or not 12:01 [hdf-us] [nh362] samiam (Arc Hum Mal Law) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3556 12:02 ok, 343-hdf livelogging bits corrected 12:02 fixed a polymorph event and a turn undead event 12:06 @Luxidream I appreciate your savage wiki edit messages 12:07 though I think you missed some? 12:07 [hdf-us] [slex] Demo (Acu Ill Fem Law) wished for "Blessed +2 fixed dragonclan sword", on T:3041 12:13 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 12:15 <@Luxidream> oops 12:15 <@Luxidream> sorry it just annoys me more than it should 12:18 [hdf-us] [slex] Demo (Acu Ill Fem Law) wished for "Blessed guardian angle", on T:3580 12:21 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given the Rod of Lordly Might, on T:13998 12:26 no the edit messages are great 12:26 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought 12:29 -!- NewbProgrammer10 has joined #hardfought 12:30 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given Sunsword, on T:16167 12:31 D: Dwarvish boots don't exist on the wiki 12:33 <@Luxidream> dwarvish boots = iron shoes 12:34 Are they just functionality identical or are they actually the same item? 12:34 There are no "dwarvish boots" 12:34 <@Luxidream> aosdict renamed them to avoid material conflicts 12:34 ^ 12:34 Ah 12:34 I see now 12:35 this ain't no low-quality variant with names like "copper iron shoes" :P 12:36 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given Yorshka's Spear, on T:18647 12:37 aosdict: Clearly those are iron shoes worn by policemen 12:39 -!- dell30 has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:42 [hdf-us] [slex] Demo (Acu Ill Fem Law) averted death, on T:4766 12:44 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given Beastmaster's Duster, on T:19047 12:46 <@Luxidream> !who 12:46 @Luxidream: [hdf-us] Vis [dnh] samiam [nh362] vid [un] | [hdf-eu] PeterQ [nh343] | [hdf-au] No current players 12:48 [hdf-us] [nh362] samiam (Arc Hum Mal Law), 4510 points, T:5859, killed by a giant ant 12:50 <@Luxidream> !tell AntiGulp "victory chipss" 12:50 Will do, @Luxidream! 12:52 <@Luxidream> YANI: The hood on dwarvish cloaks protects helms from rust traps 12:53 is it a waterproof hood though? 12:54 <@Luxidream> so only greased dwarvish cloaks? 12:55 this is getting silly 12:56 should getting hit on the head make the grease possibly wear off then? 12:56 <@Luxidream> maybe 12:56 <@Luxidream> I feel like the hood should do something 12:56 K2: wow, the TNNT announcement supplanted 3.6.1 on the nethack reddit 12:57 Doesn't a cloak protect body armour, even if ungreased? I don't see why an ungreased hood shouldn't also serve. 12:57 good point 13:02 neat 13:05 aosdict: someone asked if they could play with windows tiles. I have never used tiles so I dont know - is it something that has to be compiled server-side or is it a client setup? 13:08 it worked in 3.4.3 on NAO extremely jankily 13:08 as far as I know, nobody ever ported it to 3.6 13:08 yeah its a server-side thing 13:08 something to do with vt_tiledata 13:08 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 13:08 i will answer 13:08 maybe ask dtype or paxed 13:11 <@Tone> It didn't use true tiles did it? 13:11 <@Tone> like from the nethack tileset 13:11 <@Tone> I seem to remember it being different 13:11 <@Tone> I wonder how often that was used 13:12 wow yes, that's a very deep shaft 13:12 level 1 to 6 13:12 @Tone it offered a choice of tilesets in the browser 13:12 <@Tone> ah 13:12 honestly this is probably something hardfought should look at porting if it wants to continue its march towards becoming the One True Server 13:13 <@Tone> I tried to help someone figure it out once and they didn't like the tiles, probably didn't know they could be changed 13:14 <@Tone> Tiles would definitely open up server play to a lot of new players 13:15 who are Bad People # no not serious 13:15 Next you'll be letting people use number pad 13:15 <@Tone> 😄 13:15 aosdict: yeah i'm all for it 13:15 <@Tone> I don't blame them, when I pick up a new roguelike nowadays I usually opt for tiles 13:16 <@Tone> although a lot of roguelikes have better tilesets than nethack nowadays too 13:16 I played POWDER with tiles but then that's all it has (and to be fair POWDER was one of the first to paper-doll your equipment on you so you don't walk around naked by accident) 13:17 Sadly the default tile set for POWDER is now a pretty one where most of the monsters look a bit like chickens, where it used to be the very ugly and clear Jeff Lait set 13:17 argh, I was *almost* back up when some %$*(# kobold killed me with a wand 13:17 Pinkbeast: as long as they don't MAKE me use number_pad I'm all right with LETTING people use it. 13:18 my daughters used to play falcon's eye where most monsters looked like ponies 13:18 <@Tone> I like the tiles in games like ADOM and Caves of Qud 13:19 <@Tone> ADOM is technically more than "tiles" now though, I think 13:19 elona has beautiful tiles, sadly none of the nethack tilesets come even close to that though 13:19 The GBA's technical limitations make it hard to add tiles, so after Lait squeezed one in to let you play as a pink woman in knickers and a bra rather than a pink man in pants, I innocently suggested un-pink player tiles. Sadly not when he had a mouthful of water 13:20 http://www.darkarts.co.za/vulture-for-nethack 13:20 <@Tone> Not familiar with Elona but yes those tiles look great LarienTelrunya 13:20 Does elona have a tty interface? 13:21 K2: did you ever announce TNNT on rgrn? 13:21 [hdf-us] [un] vid (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Juiblex, on T:67797 13:21 reddit? 13:22 @Tone: yep :D this is one of my screenshots: https://img.fireden.net/vg/image/1530/96/1530969070478.png 13:22 K2: thought you were going to post to rgrn too 13:22 what is rgrn 13:23 rec.games.roguelike.nethack 13:23 PavelB: not that I know 13:23 <@Tone> the newsgroup 13:23 oh 13:23 no not yet 13:23 i will today 13:23 !lastgame AmyBSOD 13:23 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/A/AmyBSOD/fiqhack/dumplog/2018-03-28%2009%3A15%3A02%2C%20Erotic%20Thai%20Bitch-Wiz-Orc-Mal-Cha%2C%20died.txt | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/A/AmyBSOD/slex/dumplog/1535986185.slex.txt 13:24 How do I see what's posted to this newsgroup? 13:26 Google Groups? You can also post via Google Groups if you want to fuck it up and exasperate the half-dozen people who still read it. 13:26 it exists as a google group, also bilious.alt.org/rgrn/ 13:27 -!- justif20 has joined #hardfought 13:27 [hdf-us] [nh362] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 201756 points, T:22306, petrified by a cockatrice 13:27 -!- justif20 has quit [Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 13:28 ok posted over at rgrn also 13:35 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:43 -!- kritixilithos has quit [Quit: all] 13:46 !who 13:46 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] Vis [dnh] | [hdf-eu] AmyBSOD [slex] PeterQ [nh362] | [hdf-au] No current players 13:46 yay I'm being displayed ♥ 13:46 !whereis AmyBSOD 13:46 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-eu] AmyBSOD [slex]: (Sli Ven Fem Cha) T:479 The Dungeons of Doom level: 2 13:47 K2: I guess the difference here is that this is a vanilla tournament in sharp contrast to Junethack's "play a variant so obscure no-one knows it exists" nature? 13:48 Is there a way to determine the weight of an item 13:48 I'm working on it, ok 13:48 ...eventually 13:49 PavelB: Calculate your encumbrance threshold and combine it with a selection of items of known weights 13:49 So when something on the wiki tells you to identify something by weight it's not actually helpful 13:49 OPTIONS=invweight :D 13:49 (only some variants have that though) 13:49 PavelB: It is helpful. 13:49 PavelB: also were you not here yesterday when you asked the weight of something and luxidream and I demonstrated how to calculate it 13:50 This isn't materials related 13:50 This is about identifying levitation vs fumbling boots 13:50 They have different weights? 13:51 aosdict: Boots do - specifics changed in 3.6.x but they still differ 13:51 No, both weigh 30 13:51 I remember that both *cost* 30. 13:51 nvm you're right 13:51 > They have the same price as Levitation boots, which are also usually generated cursed. The best way to distinguish them is by weight: levitation weighs 5 units less (same as 1 scroll). 13:52 well I guess you could go pick up meatballs until you get encumbered or something 13:52 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) killed Cerberus, on T:23025 13:53 darts should be easier to find 13:54 ah so livelog messages already exist for slex but death messages don't 13:54 Also (at least in 3.4.3) GoP are heavier and plain helmets are lighter, which is similarly useful. 13:54 Pinkbeast: yes 13:54 think of it as the successor to /dev/null 13:54 K2: Oh, good, you can send ceb the prize that /dev/null never sent her. #joke 13:54 oh snap 13:54 what was that? 13:55 Monk highscore the first year, I think? Before it was popular, so you might get a prize just by whacking out an ascension and messing about more than Marvin 13:55 ah 13:55 you know what would be cool 13:56 t-shirts 13:56 ... also if the scoring system worked 13:56 oh it will 13:56 PeterQ: ah yes, there are lots of things lighter and more common than meatballs *facepalm* 13:57 * PavelB would love a "I explored gehennom and all I got was this lousy blessed greased fireproof +5 t-shirt" t-shirt 13:57 Pinkbeast did you play in the tribute tourney last year? 13:57 K2: No - junethack 18 is the first time I've played since bashing out a Monk in 2015 on my Psion Series 5 13:58 i see 13:58 was going to say - we learned a fair amount from hosting last years tribute tourney. scoring wont be an issue 13:58 PavelB: Jim McLennan did them in 3.1.3 - "I wished for blessed +2 GDSM and all I got was this lousy T-shirt" 13:58 K2: By scoring I mean more the deficiencies in the game itself's scoring 13:59 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:59 ok.. ya lost me. what deficiencies 13:59 K2: The way you tend to get a higher score for being less efficient springs to mind. 14:00 oh i see 14:00 Also, I submit it should be the case that any ascension outranks any non-ascension. 14:00 -!- bobbydurrett has joined #hardfought 14:00 we've talked about this at length (the tnnt team) 14:00 I don't think we're planning for the actual score to matter at all 14:00 The daft rule about #quitting a turn before death (unless that's gone, in which case good riddance) 14:01 i would imagine a quit event would negate anything earned in that game at all. I dont think we've specifically talked about that though 14:01 -!- bobbydurrett has quit [Client Quit] 14:01 [hdf-us] [xnh] PavelB (Val Dwa Fem Law) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3353 14:01 The efficiency thing is hard to fix; the ascend > non-ascend one should be easy (he says with the confidence of a programmer contemplating a task he has not yet tried) 14:02 yeah we've discussed that 14:02 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 14:02 i think people will be happy with the direction we're going 14:02 <@Luxidream> so the "most extinctions" trophy is gone 14:02 <@Luxidream> good riddance 14:02 not just individual scoring, but team scoring as well 14:02 "Most unique deaths" was always my favourite of the stamp-collecting trophies 14:03 @Luxidream I dont have the list of trophies in front of me 14:03 so i cant confirm that 14:03 <@Luxidream> it was just a particularly tedious trophy 14:03 [Demo]1 - https://www.reddit.com/r/nethack/comments/9cdyzw/the_november_nethack_tournament/ 14:03 <@Luxidream> not very fun 14:04 what does demo have to do with anything 14:04 <@Luxidream> involved 24+ in game hours of moving back and forth killing things 14:04 [Demo]1 no its not a variant tournament 14:05 <@Luxidream> I don't think we can see his messages 14:05 <@Luxidream> at least rld isn't passing them 14:05 you would need to discuss that with bhaak for junethack 14:05 I've got a bit of a soft spot for extinctionist 14:05 It's because of the freenode spam thing 14:05 K2: demo needs +v 14:05 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v [Demo]1] by K2 14:05 [Demo]1 get with the times, identify with freenode 14:05 <[Demo]1> i need to finish my bot rewrite is what i need 14:06 K2: I clarified your response to bouquet on reddit, you made it sound kind of like TNNT would be incorporating gameplay changes from xnh and splice 14:06 ... I mean, it's hard to imagine that even the most hardcore of players, seeking to maximise their tournament success, will do an extinctionist game 14:06 Because they can (say) knock out a billion unique deaths in the same time 14:06 aosdict: i saw your response. i didnt see that but ok 14:06 clarification is a good thing 14:07 <@Luxidream> ootc did an extinctionist game during devnull. those and the "highest score for role foo" were the most time consuming 14:07 I'm surprised the former was worth their time. As I recall the latter comes down to assembling a Rider-whacking farm? 14:08 <@Luxidream> pinkbeast: not many people tried so it was far less tedious 14:08 <@Luxidream> that method would also involve scumming for edible rings of increase damage 14:09 <@Luxidream> not really my idea of fun 14:09 OFC Rider farms are why the simple answer to score isn't points/turn because you win that metric by being willing to farm Riders the longest 14:09 Luxidream: as I recall one of the early rgrn Rider farm top scores automated it. 14:10 The bot just choked and asked for help if anything unexpected happened, and otherwise poked Riders with a polearm forever. 14:11 <[Demo]1> TNNT is great name but also notdevnull might be more entertaining of a name 14:11 <@Tone> is TNNT the official name or is that a placeholder? 14:11 "Death in Junethack" no perhaps not 14:12 TNNT isd the official name 14:12 <@Luxidream> teenage nethack ninja turtles 14:12 <[Demo]1> yeah 14:12 boom 14:12 Teenage Mutant Commie Traitors shurely 14:13 <@Tone> Pinkbeast: I don't think you can't rider farm in 36x in quite the same way it was usually done in 343 14:14 <@Tone> I think the riders just move past the jellies 14:14 <[Demo]1> giant farm 14:14 <@Luxidream> gremlin farming also works 14:14 <@Tone> It's probably still possible 14:14 Tone: I'm not really an expert - I thought it was done with a boulder fort 14:14 <@Tone> I haven't brainstormed a setup though 14:14 <@Tone> you had to use jellies to trap the rider so you could see them to apply the polearm 14:15 <@Tone> then you needed at least one boulder because you revive them by pushing it over the rider corpse 14:15 Couldn't you Eyes of the Overworld it? I dunno if you can use a reach weapon over a boulder 14:15 <@Tone> hmm that might be a solution 14:15 It may have been first done before monks. 14:16 <@Luxidream> !tell AntiGulp my elven ranger started burdened because of iron arrows, please fix 14:16 Will do, @Luxidream! 14:17 <@Luxidream> !tell aosdict starting items shouldn't be eligible for object materials 14:17 Will do, @Luxidream! 14:17 <@Luxidream> !tell aosdict this leads to weight problems with roles like ranger getting heavy arrows 14:17 Will do, @Luxidream! 14:21 I'm right here stop !telling me 14:21 aosdict: Message from @Luxidream at 2018-09-03 14:17 EDT: starting items shouldn't be eligible for object materials 14:21 aosdict: Message from @Luxidream at 2018-09-03 14:17 EDT: this leads to weight problems with roles like ranger getting heavy arrows 14:22 <@Luxidream> sorry I'm on discord I can't tell if you're actually here or not 14:22 they were iron elven arrows? 14:22 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 14:23 <@Luxidream> yes 14:23 Clang! It was an iron elven arrow. 14:23 I don't think starting items are eligible for materials in xnh? I can't recall it happening to me. 14:23 I forced starting items to be their base materials. If splice doesn't have that, I guess antigulp reverted it for some reason? though I can't think of why he would 14:23 <@Luxidream> both sets. game gave me max strength and con 14:23 <@Luxidream> still started burdened 14:24 wait, no, in xnh I'm getting iron elven arrows on my first ranger too 14:24 I guess I overlooked something 14:24 This seems like a pretty good deal for maybe having to go back for some stashed arrows later 14:26 <[Demo]1> ok so question 14:26 <[Demo]1> how goofy is it to have a fixed vibrating square level? 14:26 <[Demo]1> where vibrating square is always located in the same spot every game? 14:26 That sounds brilliant 14:27 VS level currently typifies the lategame experience of having to spend a lot of time doing a lot of stuff and windshielding a lot of pointless chaff 14:27 not a bad idea 14:28 what if the vibrating square was in a wall, so you have to phase to reach it (EPI) :D 14:28 Pinkbeast: at least in 3.6 you can trap-detect it instantly 14:28 err, I should have said "what if the vibrating square was in a nondiggable wall (EPI)" 14:28 I don't think it counts as an EPI if it makes the game provably unwinnable. 14:29 Oh wait, phasing. 14:29 aosdict: Oh! That's a great improvement. I was thinking of the 3.4.3 situation where Mr Boring But Optimal will carefully deduce exactly where on the level it can and cannot be and... 14:30 and drop gold pieces/meatballs/rocks everywhere you step 14:30 Do people just have a crap ton of meatballs with them ususally 14:30 I was considering making the VS level into just a big open featureless rectangle 14:30 PavelB: no but they're light and stackable 14:30 Not really necessary (I'm not quite Mr BBO, I don't check the stairs exclusion zone, but I travel through the rest systematically and that's enough) 14:30 gold was most commonly used 14:31 <@Luxidream> you can just use gold detection these days 14:31 Pinkbeast: Well, the idea was to indicate to the player that they'd gotten _somewhere_ important - especially since no downstairs is visible. 14:31 <@Luxidream> but I'm not against anything that would make the game faster 14:31 I don't> actually I did in one of my two Junethack trips but I was utterly exasperated and playing Spork 14:31 I think nh4 can mark already visited tiles? 14:31 <[Demo]1> ok so here is where it gets really goofy 14:31 yes nh4 does that by default 14:32 aosdict: I mean, dropping stuff's not necessary. Making it an obviously different level, that also sounds good 14:32 <[Demo]1> https://i.imgur.com/DoB1Agx.png it also doubles as a demogorgon summoning level 14:33 <[Demo]1> vibe square is in the dead center 14:33 But you still need 20 INT to be safely able to use a crystal ball in 3.6 (which means Helm of Brilliance for anyone except elves), so it's not really a good solution imo 14:33 <@Luxidream> gold detection works in 3.6 14:33 PeterQ: If as Luxidream says gold... oh, never mind 14:33 Oh,then it's cool 14:34 <@Luxidream> I like demos square level though 14:34 Safely> also the worst it can do is cause you to apply a unicorn horn 14:34 <@Luxidream> makes it more special than just another maze 14:35 <@Luxidream> it can blow up in your face and mildly annoy you 14:35 Ooh, new idea: vibrating square is a regular maze level with three 7x5 square chambers evenly spaced and vertically centered, each with four exits open to the maze. One of these three contains the Square in the center. The overall design is intended to be reminiscent of Astral. 14:35 YANI ^ 14:35 Luxi> I am comparing this annoyance to the annoyance of searching for it the hard way :-) 14:35 <[Demo]1> see this is a cool level because it has a drawbridge you can try to kill demo with 14:36 <[Demo]1> and to summon demo you need to pray to both of his heads 14:36 Of course, the hardest part of implementing the VS level as a special level is not actually making the special level, but as convincing the dungeon structure to accept it as one. 14:36 But can Demogorgon wear two hats # hides 14:37 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given their Quest, on T:24806 14:37 Pinkbeast: It can also explode, so you'd need another one, and they are not that common 14:37 PeterQ: It can but then you are no worse off than if you didn't try it to begin with. 14:38 <@Luxidream> ettins can't wear two hats 14:38 Or two amulets. Octopodes can't wear 8 rings no wait wrong game and they can 14:38 Mariliths can wield one weapon and hit six times with it because they're amazing jugglers 14:41 Damn it, all this discussion has made me notice _another_ way I made a mistake in Spork in Junethack and thereby died 14:42 <[Demo]1> its fine its spork 14:42 (viz, unBurdened, but close enough to be Burdened when removing a PoFH from bag) 14:42 <[Demo]1> dying is part of every spork game 14:43 -!- deadnoob_ has joined #hardfought 14:43 -!- deadnoob has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:44 I know what you mean but this particular splat in the Sanctum was the result of at least three separate errors 14:45 <[Demo]1> was playing spork one of them? :P 14:45 <[Demo]1> its not like u werent gonna die on astral 14:45 <[Demo]1> fucking angels 14:46 I know it can be won not least because ceb won it back in the day 14:48 ... and given our friendly roguelike rivalry it is as such a source of some vexation to me that I have not 14:48 <[Demo]1> ok so how cruel is it to paralyze the player before throwing them into lethe water if they dont prepare for the first stage of summoning demo properly? 14:50 <@Luxidream> so instakill them? 14:50 <[Demo]1> well if they are unbreathing they are just sad 14:50 <[Demo]1> and if they are flying or levitating or water walking they are just paralyzed for a few turns 14:51 <[Demo]1> uh hmmmm wtf, if you are swimming and you fall into water paralyzed you still swim 14:52 <@Luxidream> ppl tend to float 14:52 not people who can't swim 14:52 Especially when they're not wearing plate harness, iron shoes, carrying a pack full of Stuff, etc 14:53 ... at least you won't be sunk by your waterlogged trousers 14:57 just keep your lungs filled with air and you won't drown. nethack characters need to learn this. 14:57 <@Luxidream> is there air inside a bag of holding? 14:58 won't drown> assuming you are not wearing half an ironmonger, not to repeat myself :-) 14:58 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) killed Ashikaga Takauji, on T:25818 14:59 Maybe all nethack heroes contain a little internal nuclear reactor that turns the water in their bodies into heavy water 15:00 I'm reminded of how in early Hitman games you could push people into a puddle to insta-drown them. 15:01 "How do you save a lawyer from drowning", etc 15:02 -!- tacco| has joined #hardfought 15:06 <[Demo]1> i should ask chris why demogorgon doesnt have an uber artifact when i get a chance 15:07 Isn't Demogorgon bad enough? 15:08 <[Demo]1> no as loot 15:08 he lacks the elder priest's tentacle attack so he could stand some buffing :P 15:09 Naughty, naughty, tentacles. 15:12 <@Luxidream> why is demogorgon an eligible summon nasties target 15:12 Demogorgon is... nasty? 15:13 <@Luxidream> it's very unfair and has happened to me a few times 15:13 !tell K2 slex bugfix update at current master branch: fixes bug where eternium items would be destroyed when they shouldn't, and fixes bug where player would drown when they should be able to survive 15:13 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 15:13 It's happened to me once or twice when Rodney's done it; flung the Amulet away at least once. It seems like about the only way to get some interest in the late game. 15:15 Pinkbeast: I'd be more okay with it if it happens only from Rodney; but it can happen with a demilich at the Castle, or some such. 15:16 <@rikersan> !tell Chris_ANG famine reaches through walls. probably other 4 square touches as well. 15:16 Will do, @rikersan! 15:16 <[Demo]1> they what 15:16 <@Luxidream> purple L at castle also shouldn't happen 15:16 aosdict: I think my theory of roguelike difficulty says basically it's a good thing anyway 15:17 <@Luxidream> unless you want players to farm forever before attempting castle 15:17 <@Tone> I think it only summons demons in gehennom anyways 15:17 <@Tone> Shouldn't happen at the castle 15:18 <[Demo]1> rikersan how does it see you but also have a wall between you? 15:18 ok 15:18 K2: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-09-03 15:13 EDT: slex bugfix update at current master branch: fixes bug where eternium items would be destroyed when they shouldn't, and fixes bug where player would drown when they should be able to survive 15:19 Viz a roguelike can be too easy (vanilla NH), too samey (Angband), or sometimes just rip your head off and wee down your neck (DCSS) and of these failings the last is least bad 15:20 <@Luxidream> okay just add instadeath traps to nethack 15:20 <[Demo]1> vanilla nh is too easy? 15:20 <@Luxidream> problem soled 15:20 <[Demo]1> ok amy 15:21 [Demo]1: yeah I was just about to say that it is, I could ascend the samurai in my sleep by now as long as no wand of death bearing monster appears before I'm able to survive that :P 15:21 [Demo]1: I'm not sure I want the kind of difficulty that Amy adds, given that I think that yes, once you memorise all the silly crap, it is too easy 15:21 <[Demo]1> once you get over the incredible difficulty curve its easy what 15:21 <[Demo]1> so then its not easy if it has a steep difficulty curve? 15:21 <[Demo]1> what 15:22 What I mean is there comes a point - perhaps early, it happened to me about D:4 in this Junethack - where the next challenging monster you see might be Rodney, if you don't just WoD him. 15:22