00:00 really sorry to be such a nuisance. 00:04 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 00:09 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:16 [hdf-us] [fh] bouquet (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 33926 points, T:2906, killed by a gnome queen 00:28 oh see that girl 00:28 watch that scene 00:28 diggin' the gnome qeen... 00:28 queen, even 00:29 <[Demo]> dlvl 17 00:31 ;^) 00:36 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 01:04 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:05 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 01:10 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:11 -!- nooodle has joined #hardfought 01:25 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:25 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 01:35 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:42 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:46 -!- MiseryMyra has joined #hardfought 01:59 !ping 01:59 LarienTelrunya: Message from aosdict at 2018-08-24 23:39 EDT: does ESM host slashthem, or is it not really available anywhere except as a slex soviet? 01:59 LarienTelrunya: Pong! 02:00 !tell aosdict esm does not host slashthem but ascension.run does (sadly, the server maintainer didn't pull my critical bugfix that would wipe the age-old SLASH'EM hallucination save-trashing segfault panic) 02:00 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:01 !tell FIQ why is it silly to call the pokedex a pokedex? :D 02:01 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:02 !tell FIQ also, you're right that there was a crash when using a very large terminal in slex together with the pokedex... but I fixed that crash :D 02:02 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:06 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 02:12 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:16 LOOOOOOOL https://github.com/FlamingGuacamole/NetGuac/commit/9e7dd007d105e3c17a90b9158681c3efde3f673f :D NetGuac officially confirmed best variant ever ♥ 02:20 is the typo intentional 02:20 oh, it's just in the description 02:22 3 02:25 !tell AntiGulp You have two entrance messages for Geryon, I think one of them is supposed to be Dispater instead ;) 02:25 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:30 -!- dograt has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:35 -!- dograt has joined #hardfought 02:59 [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (master mind flayer), on T:22808 02:59 -!- Tangles has joined #hardfought 02:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles] by ChanServ 03:04 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:07 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 03:10 -!- Tangles_ has joined #hardfought 03:10 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles_] by ChanServ 03:12 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:12 -!- Tarmunora__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13 -!- Tarmunora__ has joined #hardfought 03:15 [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed Medusa, on T:23131 03:16 -!- introsp3ctive has joined #hardfought 03:18 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:24 [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming an Aleax, on T:23244 03:25 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 03:33 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:33 -!- Tangles has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:41 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 03:41 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 03:56 -!- Tangles has joined #hardfought 03:56 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles] by ChanServ 04:08 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 04:13 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:42 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 05:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1205 05:08 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:08 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 05:10 -!- introsp3ctive has joined #hardfought 05:13 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:20 -!- dograt has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:23 ?362 05:23 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.2] 05:25 -!- dograt has joined #hardfought 05:36 -!- Tangles__ has joined #hardfought 05:36 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles__] by ChanServ 05:36 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:36 -!- Tangles_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:39 -!- Tangles has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:40 I don't know how that happened 05:40 oh wait yes I do 05:42 -!- PeterQ has joined #hardfought 05:56 -!- Tangles has joined #hardfought 05:56 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles] by ChanServ 06:09 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 06:14 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:29 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given the Kiku-ichimonji, on T:2328 06:37 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given Sickle Moon, on T:3051 06:45 oh, i forgot about grunthack 0.2.0 07:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) completed Sokoban, on T:7592 07:10 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 07:12 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 07:16 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:47 -!- lonjil2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:58 -!- lonjil has joined #hardfought 08:12 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 08:13 aosdict: see pm please 08:13 !tell bouquet I've recovered your xnh game and provided a copy of the save to aosdict. please do not try to play xnh again until aosdict gives the go-ahead 08:13 Will do, K2! 08:16 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Arc Hum Mal Law), 590 points, T:1084, killed by a gnome lord 08:17 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:23 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Arc Hum Mal Law), 891 points, T:1063, killed by an arrow 08:26 K2: well it's totally possible that I play the save and don't get any hangups 08:26 aosdict: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-08-27 02:00 EDT: esm does not host slashthem but ascension.run does (sadly, the server maintainer didn't pull my critical bugfix that would wipe the age-old SLASH'EM hallucination save-trashing segfault panic) 08:29 ah, so flamingguacamole is aware of amy (probably through reddit) 08:29 wont know til you try 08:30 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:31 hopefully the freeze when going downstairs is reproducible 08:33 aosdict: could you please repost the source of your updated graph? the pastebin has already expired 08:34 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Arc Hum Mal Law), 1226 points, T:2193, killed by a hill orc, while helpless 08:37 https://pastebin.com/5K9NQNgp 08:43 thanks 08:43 /* Amy, why */ haha 08:52 bhaak: yeah there are probably a lot of missing dashed lines, especially since I don't know how variants really shared code before I got involved. 08:53 it's difficult anyway 08:54 also ndnh is not on here because I can't find any source code for it so I don't have enough information 08:54 aosdict: your nethack timeline graphic is great. you're missing a lot of sporkhack info though. you stopped at sporkhack 0.6.0 08:55 that's where bhaak stopped :) 08:55 bhaak: sad face 08:55 well he also stopped at un 3.5 and grunt 0.1.1 so I really should have checked spork 08:56 Things I'm not sure about the dates of: /dev/null (becoming a distinct variant from 3.4.3), NetHack Extended, JNetHack and JNetHack:TNG 08:57 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Arc Hum Mal Law), 699 points, T:1403, killed by a kitten 08:58 K2: what versions is spork missing though? it looks like it only got 0.6.4 and 0.6.5 in 2017? 09:00 cool, I can repro bouquet's freeze 09:01 K2: I've done that in 2009. 09:02 it's also not missing much, sporkhack development slowed down in 2009 and stopped entirely in 2010 09:02 aosdict: 0.6.3 in 2010 09:04 it's difficult anyway, the newer variants after slashem shared lots of code. acehack, nh4, nao, unnethack, dynahack, etc. were mish-mashing their code quite a bit 09:05 hm bouquet's infinite loop appears to be related to the ensure_way_out selection floodfill, which just got updated due to my bug report 09:05 I'm not sure if more code from unnethack landed in 3.6 via nao or directly by paxed and how much coppro took from nh4 09:06 yeah there should definitely be some more intermingling of un and 3.4.3-nao, but since it was a rolling release it's hard to show that 09:06 I wouldn't put 0.6.4 and 0.6.5 on that graph as those versions are bugfix maintenance and there is no intent to add gameplay changes, if I'm not mistaken 09:07 yeah, 3.4.3-nao is special, as it didn't even have a different version number as every change needed to be save compatible. 09:09 it's sitting at 2008 because that's apparently when paxed fixed the astral call bug, which stenno suggested as a good breaking off point for it being its own thing 09:12 bhaak: correct, sp 0.6.4 and .5 were just bugfixes and QoL improvements 09:12 core gameplay has been unchanged 09:13 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 09:13 grunthack version 0.2.3 and .4 are significant as those versions started going beyond bugfixes and QoL changes - gameplay has actually been altered somewhat 09:13 esp with .4 09:13 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 09:14 we can only crowd 2018 so much 09:14 Beholder: messages? 09:15 if this graph is telling me anything, it's that every three years there's a particularly strong burst of variant activity 09:17 06: grunthack appears. 09: unnethack appears and devnull starts adding challenges. 12: nethack4 and dnh appear, last major grunt update, big un update. 15: slex, slashthem, fiqhack, fourk, and vanilla 3.6 appear. 18: xnh, splice, and 3.6.1 appear 09:18 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:26 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Arc Hum Mal Law), 3522 points, T:2527, killed by a dingo 09:53 Ugh, I'm adding materials to harps, so I need to get rid of "wooden harp" but I can't think of another adjective that conveys the sense of a mundane but not actually _bad_ harp. Any ideas? 09:54 Hey there, what's the best variant if I want UI improvements ? FIQhack ? 09:55 FIQHack, or NetHack4 if you want something very close to vanilla 09:56 or if you can't stand the curses interface, try 3.6.1 and its variants 09:56 curse is fine, it's just that, coming from dcss, nethack is a little too minimalistic for me as is 09:56 UI wise 09:58 yeah, nethack shops have a bad UI. nothing like vending machines 10:00 but think of all the wonderful stealing they enable 10:00 (can you steal from dcss vending machines?) 10:01 no you can't 10:01 but you can mark item that you wanna buy later, then search for it and autotravel to it it's 3 keystrokes... :) 10:02 aosdict: "simple harp" 10:03 the nethack equivalent of stealing from vending machines: "As you reach your hand up inside the machine, a sharp blade slams down! Your hand is cut off! You die from blood loss. DYWYPI?" 10:03 eek 10:04 <[Demo]> zapm should have vending machines 10:05 raisse: I suppose simple works. Also need to do it for tin whistles and wooden flutes... best I came up with is "cheap whistle" and "concert flute" 10:05 aosdict: just use "harp" and "magic harp" 10:05 unless you need a separate unIDed appearance 10:11 won't that mess up wishing? 10:13 hm, are there any other examples of things for which the mundane item real name equals the magic item's unidentified description? 10:13 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 10:15 aosdict: a reverse example of that is "amulet of yendor", but it doesn't really count because it's using known rather than typeknown to produce the name 10:16 I'm not sure I can think of any forward examples straight off, but I'd be surprised if there weren't any 10:17 <[Demo]> the devteam needs to rewrite the wish parser 10:17 <[Demo]> it should have its own source file 10:17 why? 10:17 <[Demo]> and it should suck less 10:18 I actually think it does pretty well given the circumstances and can't think of a design which would work substantially better 10:18 dagger vs elven/runed dagger? 10:19 those are different items though 10:19 you can't ID a dagger into an elven dagger 10:20 right. bags, then? 10:20 no, sack, oilskin sack, bag of holding and bag of tricks are all "bag" 10:20 was going to say, I think an unIDed sack is "bag" 10:20 but raisse is more confident on this than I am 10:21 I'd already been thinking about it 10:21 what are we looking for then? 10:21 two items A and B, such that A's unidentified appearance is the same as B's unidentified appearance and also A's identified appearance 10:21 something that has the same name identified and unidentified, and that there's a magical version of that has the same unidentified name 10:21 hmm 10:23 I don't think the code would have a problem with that but such an item would be confusing to the player. 10:23 just checked all of objects.c, unless I missed one there aren't any 10:23 it's possible that the wish parser would be confused by it 10:24 <[Demo]> the wish parser gets confused by everythimg 10:24 <[Demo]> you cant add a fucking thing without it shitting its pants 10:24 not really 10:24 it's crazily tolerant 10:24 <[Demo]> have u played dnethack? 10:24 possibly too much so, you'd normally prefer wishes to be not granted with a "try again" than to give you something you didn't want 10:24 but then, in NetHack, you get what you wish for… 10:24 (except when you don't) 10:25 <[Demo]> oh whats that, you added a necromancer staff? oh well guess what you cant fucking wish for it cause it has a rank name in it 10:26 <[Demo]> oh what, your artifact name ends with s? better special case that shit so it can find it 10:26 <[Demo]> oh hmm you added a corpse disintegrator? too bad. wanna wish for it? too bad. have a fucking random ass corpse 10:27 a disintegrator that leaves a corpse? what a preposterous thing 10:28 <[Demo]> sometimes u wanna disintegrate corpses, it was a better example than like, a potion vaporizer, cause fuck anyone that would come up with that shit 10:29 ais523: the primary better proposal for the wish parser I've seen is jonadab's idea to tokenize back to front. 10:29 <[Demo]> that would be nice 10:30 I think you can tokenise off modifiers easily enough 10:30 blessed, fixed, greased, etc. 10:30 strip off "named foo", see if "corpse" exists, etc 10:30 maybe back to front works better for the rest of it though 10:31 and yes, the number one change I would like in the wish parser is to remove overzealous parsing. 10:31 ais523: I agree, for example you will still get dragon scale mail if you forget to specify the color 10:32 oh, you typoed "2 blessed scrolls of charginh" on your 0:1 wand? better interpret that as "2 scrolls" and good luck finding charging again! 10:32 <[Demo]> yeah that is a problem 10:34 I think many people believe it's in the spirit of NetHack to punish you for typoed wishes 10:34 -!- Tarmunora__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35 -!- Tarmunora__ has joined #hardfought 10:35 <[Demo]> what 10:35 <[Demo]> dont most people believe that the paranoid move patch isnt cheating though? 10:36 -!- Luxidream has joined #hardfought 10:36 not sure about most 10:36 <[Demo]> arent those two schools of thought incongruent? 10:36 I'd agree with many, but not most 10:36 <[Demo]> i always bitch about how its cheating 10:36 <[Demo]> and people give me shit 10:36 it's probably more popular on IRC than it is in the wider NetHack world 10:36 but there are definitely people who think that it's cheating 10:37 <[Demo]> it is definitely more cheating than being able to not get owned cause you typod a wish 10:38 <[Demo]> 2 blessed scrolls of chagrin, heh 10:39 -!- Tarmunora__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40 -!- Tarmunora__ has joined #hardfought 10:40 ais523: how about feature #2 I would like to see in the wish parser: hitting escape doesn't give you a random item and break wishless conduct 10:40 that one's in xnh, unlike the first one which is harder to do 10:41 <[Demo]> whats it do in xnh? 10:41 <[Demo]> give u nothing and not wish? 10:43 aosdict: do you care more about Escape itself, or keys like the arrow keys that have codes starting with Escape? 10:49 ais523: anything that sends the game an escape code 10:49 [Demo]: in xnh it prompts you to "Really forfeit this wish?" and if you answer yes it changes the wish to "nothing' 10:49 if you hit escape again it assumes you answered no to forfeiting the wish and goes back to the wish prompt 10:50 ais523: paxed has partially addressed this; if you send an escape code while there's text in the wish buffer it clears the entire wish buffer but lets you type again 10:51 but that doesn't work if the buffer's empty 10:51 or if someone desiring to be wishless assumes, sensibly, that hitting esc won't give them anything 10:55 <[Demo]> haha assuming sensibly in nethack 10:56 if you hit escape again it assumes you answered no to forfeiting the wish and goes back to the wish prompt ← uh-oh, that may well lead to an infinite loop if someone becomes disconnected at the wish prompt 10:56 NH4 fixes the escape code problem by not parsing keys as escape if more bytes follow soon afterwards 10:57 or, well, libuncursed rather than NH4 itself 10:57 you need to wish for something if you want nothing. 10:58 nethack is deep on philosophical zen shit 11:05 -!- Luxidream has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:23 [hdf-us] [nh362] Rx (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 327 points, T:1414, killed by a werejackal 11:30 [hdf-us] [spl] k2 (Dra Ang Fem Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:8551 11:31 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law), 87321 points, T:20042, killed by an earth elemental 11:34 argh my current gnome wiz is dumber than an orc 11:34 In:15 11:34 3% fail on force bolt with only an orcish helm on 11:37 nethack is a solitaire, so cheating is defined only by your conscience, not someone else's opinion 11:37 I have no such conscience and polyinit as an archon 11:41 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) changed form for the first time by mimicing a pile of gold, on T:12875 11:41 -!- astag has joined #hardfought 11:42 hm, I take issue with that, you're only pretending 11:42 it's not a real polymorph 11:42 i agree. i just broke poly-self but not really 11:42 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1044 11:43 * hothraxxa removes the whiteface and striped shirt 11:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given the Kiku-ichimonji, on T:1644 11:52 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:57 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:58 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 12:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given Nodensfork, on T:3520 12:04 ._. why can't you `#terrain` while confused 12:04 It's a purely interface feature 12:09 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 12:12 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:17 -!- MysteryMyra has joined #hardfought 12:23 PavelB: wait what that's ridiculous 12:23 Yeah 12:30 aosdict: I think you have me confused with someone else. My idea for the wish parser is to avoid changing it any more than is necessary to support new features. 12:31 I honestly don't mind that it accepts some things that are nonsense. As long as it also accepts the stuff it should. Which it generally does. 12:31 maybe tung then? someone had that proposal and I think I heard it via you 12:31 Dunno. Could've been coppro or dtsund? Not sure. 12:32 And yeah, I don't care if you can finagle a nonsense string to get a wish, or if you stick on the very holy flaming historic, or whatever 12:32 What I care about is when you botch typing a wish and things happen that you didn't want to happen. 12:34 If I read a scroll and it says You feel confused. what does it mean? 12:36 cursed confuse monster? 12:36 Thanks! 12:37 aosdict: Ah. The "What do you want to genocide?" "Master lech" problem. 12:40 -!- Luxidream has joined #hardfought 12:43 does that genocide @? 12:45 [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) made her first wish - "the holy greased fixed +3 grayswandir", on T:26917 12:46 aosdict: I think so. 12:46 Because things like "master of stones" are human. 12:46 [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) wished for "the holy greased fixed amulet of reflection", on T:26923 12:51 it's student of stones though 12:52 but yes, "master" (I tried master lech) wiped out my orc barb 12:54 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) polymorphed her first item, on T:14150 12:54 There should be a confirmation, "Are you sure you want to genocide yourself? (ny)" 12:56 nah, just need to fix the rules so that it's unambiguous 12:58 i don't understand. how does the "master lech" typo wipe out an orc barbarian? 12:58 i.e. "master lech doesn't match any known monsters" 12:58 hothraxxa: master lech -> master -> probably a monk rank title or something 12:58 having genocide accept rank titles is ridiculous 12:58 there was a bug there that affected master kaen i think 12:59 but if you mistype "master lich" then you've found an unblessed scroll 13:01 blessed genocide accepts species names and just generalizes to their class 13:01 anyway this figurine is now a boh and i've identified poly potion 13:07 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:07 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 13:13 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given the Tie-Dye Shirt of Shambhala, on T:7162 13:14 [hdf-us] [nh362] barleywine (Cav Dwa Mal Law) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:4423 13:19 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 13:25 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 13:25 <[Demo]> how should shambhala balance be addressed? 13:26 <[Demo]> it's pretty much an item you'd be dumb not to get I think 13:28 -!- lonjil has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:32 -!- lonjil has joined #hardfought 13:37 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:39 aosdict: I think the reason genocide accepts rank titles, is because the UI uses them to refer to player-character monsters. Personally, I don't see the point of rank titles at all and would prefer to just remove them. 13:42 [Demo]: I think the main reasons why one wants Shambhala is because there are no other artifact shirts, and because of the increased carrying capacity. So mabye remove the carrying capacity and add another one? 13:43 jonadab: one marginal use of rank titles is they add a bit of flavor to the quest, the leader can say "come back when you're a " rather than talk about levels 13:45 -!- Muad has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46 if you genocide thaumaturges do you get all wizards? 13:46 (I do like rank titles, fwiw) 13:47 raisse: yes 13:50 -!- Muad has joined #hardfought 13:52 -!- Luxidream has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:53 -!- Luxidream has joined #hardfought 13:56 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law), 28585 points, T:8817, killed by an iron golem 14:01 [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed the Master Assassin, on T:31195 14:01 [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:31196 14:02 -!- Luxidream has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:05 <[Demo]> Maybe add one you can get naturally 14:08 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given the Kiku-ichimonji, on T:414 14:12 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given Werebane, on T:667 14:15 aosdict: I think "Come back when you are more experienced" is adequate, honestly. 14:16 An artifact glow in the dark hawiian shirt that provides radius-2 light? 14:17 *Hawaiian 14:24 [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) wished for "an uncursed fixed greased magic marker", on T:32561 14:24 <[Demo]> not very flavorful 14:24 <[Demo]> oh thats positive 2 14:24 <[Demo]> i thought we were gonna have goofy ass drows running around in hawaiian 14:25 <[Demo]> i think something that already exists in dnh that you already basically get every game should be remanifested as a shirt 14:25 <[Demo]> what if the silver key was a tshirt and to get some of the perks you had to wear it? 14:26 teleport control on a shirt certainly sounds nice 14:27 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:27 <[Demo]> the problem is then it might totally negate value in shambhala 14:27 <[Demo]> cause goddamn the silver key gives too much 14:27 <[Demo]> which is something i want to try to address but i dont know how 14:27 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 14:27 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:32 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 14:32 [hdf-us] [nh362] samiam (Arc Hum Mal Law), 876 points, T:2623, killed by a wererat 14:33 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 14:34 <[Demo]> the vibrating square level is dumb 14:38 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:40 [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:33339 14:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) completed Sokoban, on T:4678 14:50 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Arc Hum Mal Law), 2798 points, T:6254, killed by a giant bat 14:50 aosdict: so you figured out why xnh crashed on me? 14:50 bouquet: Message from K2 at 2018-08-27 08:13 EDT: I've recovered your xnh game and provided a copy of the save to aosdict. please do not try to play xnh again until aosdict gives the go-ahead 14:51 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 14:51 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 14:59 <[Demo]> what the fuck is xnh's des format? is that how 3.6.x is or is that his own work? 14:59 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:00 It might be inherited from 3.6, which has paxed's level compiler. 15:00 -!- tacco| has joined #hardfought 15:01 If so, it's closer to Un than to 3.4, I believe. 15:01 <[Demo]> looks very un 15:01 That makes sense. 15:01 for identical values of "closer" 15:01 <[Demo]> how hard would it be to update to it? 15:02 <[Demo]> like if my variant is using the 3.4 level compiler and i wanna swap it out for the 3.6.x one? 15:02 bhaak: Doesn't Un also have that prefab-rooms stuff? 15:02 "vaults" that aren't vaults? 15:03 [Demo]: Not sure. Haven't tried. 15:03 [Demo]: There's a patch on Bilious, though. 15:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] Vis (Sam Hum Mal Law) was given Grayswandir, on T:5655 15:03 [Demo]: not that hard. I think sp_lev.c is the main code change, otherwise it share the same methods calls as 3.4.3. you'll need to update the des files, too. but that is mostly simple syntax changes 15:04 The closer you are to 3.4.3, the more likely the patch will apply without trouble. 15:04 <[Demo]> wait so its not fully backwards compatible with 3.4 des format? 15:04 <[Demo]> ahhh 15:04 Which is part of the reason I haven't attempted it: Fourk is not very close to 3.x. 15:04 jonadab: yes but the vaults are just rooms that got hooked into the normal room generation. it's just that the "standard" room has a much higher chance thant the other vaults 15:04 bhaak: Ah, that doesn't require special support from levcomp? 15:05 [Demo]: no, it isn't but the changes are not that bad. mostly adding { blocks }, some slightly changed syntax 15:05 <[Demo]> yeah hmm might not want to do that after all 15:06 jonadab: yeah, no special support from levcomp. 15:06 <[Demo]> a ghetto solution could be using both and if the new one fails then fall back on the old one 15:06 [Demo]: The patch should fix all the vanilla levels. YOu'd only need to update other ones. 15:06 <[Demo]> and then as i am adding shit to levels i want the new features for i can just update shit there 15:06 <[Demo]> which is a metric assload 15:06 Ah. 15:08 bouquet: You're *sure* you've been getting freezes in the middle of wandering around a level? I haven't had much time to look at it but I found one sporadic infinite loop in the level generator. 15:09 it usually follows a command other than "move", but yes. 15:09 in the save you got it was when I hit ">" to go downstairs. 15:10 prior to that I think I had a freeze when opening a chest. 15:10 Yeah, and that traced back into the selection floodfill code, which should only run when you're generating a new level. 15:11 could it be the ncurses display? I use that https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bouquet/xnethack/bouquet.xnhrc 15:11 this is unlikely to be a curses bug 15:11 considering it's not happening to 362dev players 15:12 aosdict: i've also witnessed a number of xnethack processes that wont close and consume 100% of one cpu on the server 15:12 and my spl game hasn't croaked so maybe it's only xnh. 15:13 yeah so infinite loop is almost certainly the culprit 15:13 bouquet are you playing in normal tty or curses mode? 15:13 curses 15:13 my config is https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bouquet/xnethack/bouquet.xnhrc 15:13 ok 15:13 occams razor: it's my fault 15:13 curses block at the top. 15:14 <[Demo]> its probably from adjusting mlets to random shit 15:14 i'd try setting your cfg back to normal tty mode and load that game again, see how it goes 15:14 bouquet: Hitting > to go downstairs could trigger level generation. 15:14 <[Demo]> the game is getting confused cause it cant remember whats what 15:14 <[Demo]> and is just sitting forever thinking about what z is 15:14 ha! It's the curse of the zruty. 15:14 sounds like a normal saturday evening for me 15:15 ok, I'll give it a shot now, K2. 15:15 no need 15:15 K2: I loaded the save in tty (because I never remember to turn on curses). Going downstairs still triggered the infinite loop. 15:15 Obvious fix to the zruty infinite loop bug: remove zruty from the game. 15:15 ah 15:15 No one will notice they are gone. 15:15 ok bouquet you can hold off 15:16 jonadab: I did. And for some reason everyone hates that change. 15:16 I think that may be the _least_ controversial thing I've done in Fourk. 15:16 oh, I just loaded it without curses and went downstairs successfully 15:16 bouquet: it's sporadic 15:17 it does not happen reliably, if we had a level RNG like nh4 then it would happen reliably 15:17 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 1777 points, T:1999, killed by a soldier ant 15:17 yay 15:17 party like it's turn 1999 15:18 ^ thats awesome 15:18 prince would be proud 15:18 if only it was a "Purple a" it could have been a tune. 15:19 I'll try to run a game into the ground again later. 15:21 aosdict: have you looked at unnethack's level RNG? it makes level generation deterministic and it's only a small change compared to nh4 15:21 purple a? arch-ant ? 15:22 a queen ant 15:23 K2: you know how to get a backtrace from a running process? 15:23 gdb something something gahwtf something 15:23 (and then a miracle occurs) 15:24 ah, so you kno 15:24 heh 15:24 FIQ has shown me but i dont do it often enough to remember 15:24 [hdf-us] [nh343] PaciFIST (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 50 points, T:114, killed by a falling object 15:26 [hdf-us] [nh343] PaciFIST (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 25 points, T:9, killed by a jackal 15:26 fyi all - 343-nao here is about to become 343-hdf 15:26 -!- lonjil has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:27 going to add some bits 15:27 QoL bits 15:27 a historical moment 15:27 sometime in the next few days 15:28 i've wanted to for over a year but while NAO was still hosting 343, i wanted to keep the versions aligned 15:29 it always irked me why no one saw fit to add auto open doors to 343 15:29 that's first on the list to do 15:29 when you break save compat anyway you can install darkroom patch 15:30 -anyway 15:30 hah yeah that's right, 343-nao doesnt have that 15:30 and i would break save compat, because i am going to add E word tracking also 15:30 kk 15:30 nice 15:30 (none of this will affect current 343-nao games, I will separate the two) 15:31 ^ so existing saves will play out 15:31 yeah... this week for sure 15:33 why is everyone talking about hypothetical purple a's when we already have that 15:33 <[Demo]> yey auto open doors!! 15:33 <[Demo]> queen bees arent real 15:33 <[Demo]> also they arent a in nxh 15:33 <[Demo]> they are b for bee 15:33 <[Demo]> duh 15:33 <[Demo]> or maybe Q 15:33 <[Demo]> idk 15:33 jonadab: ^ see what I mean? 15:33 queen bees arent real... wut? 15:34 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 15:34 <[Demo]> i got my alphabet soup scrambled 15:34 i think that is what bhaak was referring to 15:34 bhaak: Strangely I haven't really looked much at Un as a source of features. No particular reason why. 15:35 <[Demo]> considering adding ghoul queens to ndnh 15:36 i was going to make a 'add drag queens' comment, but 10 bucks says amy already has those in slex 15:36 likely as playable role 15:36 ouch 15:36 <[Demo]> yeah slex does and its probaably a playable role 15:36 <[Demo]> yeah 15:39 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:40 -!- stenno_ is now known as stenno 15:42 -!- astag has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:57 ?le drag queen 15:57 * PavelB doesn't remember how the bot works 16:00 It used to be @le?drag queen 16:00 But it has been offline for months. 16:01 ... drag queen? 16:01 are there also drag kings? drag ladies? drag lords? 16:01 Someone was asking whether slex has drag queens. 16:01 The consensus is probably. 16:02 well, isn't the consensus always probably for slex? 16:05 if not now then soon 16:05 nethacks rule 34 16:07 * PavelB has never seen NetHack rule 34 and hopes he never will 16:18 &@ 16:22 it's not *quite* rule 34, because the premise isn't "if it exists" 16:22 it's more like "if you can come up with it, it's in slex already" 16:23 Can we not argue about the semantics of r34 16:24 I can affirm that nethack exists. 16:25 do you have independant proof that you exist? 16:25 several people have told me so, I don't know if that's proof or just anecdote 16:26 and if it's not proof, how to get proof 16:26 I once dreamed that I was trying to get through a door with a sign "Please come in, if you exist" and I wasn't sure I had enough existence 16:26 -!- introsp3ctive is now known as Isawnothing 16:27 but my daughter was with me (in the dream) and she said "if you didn't exist you wouldn't be able to read" and that convinced me 16:27 ah, the Baron von Münchhausen defense 16:28 works at least for yourself pretty well. the existence of the outer world OTOH is not that easy 16:28 frankly I don't care if that exists or not (though I wish some facts of current politics didn't) 16:29 -!- MiseryMyra has joined #hardfought 16:30 -!- Isawnothing is now known as introsp3ctive 16:32 [hdf-us] [nh362] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:16393 16:34 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 16:39 -!- stenno_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:40 [hdf-us] [nh362] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 171942 points, T:16931, killed by a jabberwock 16:40 I think I have pretty solid evidence that *I* exist 16:40 FIQ: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-08-27 02:01 EDT: why is it silly to call the pokedex a pokedex? :D 16:40 FIQ: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-08-27 02:02 EDT: also, you're right that there was a crash when using a very large terminal in slex together with the pokedex... but I fixed that crash :D 16:40 Can't really prove if others do, though 16:47 FIQ: Whether we exist or not depends on the definiton of "exist". 16:47 Trust me, I have BS in mathology. 16:48 <[Demo]> sure sounds like bs to me 16:59 [hdf-us] [nh362] samiam (Arc Hum Mal Law), 258 points, T:1427, killed by a small mimic 17:13 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:15 -!- introsp3ctive has joined #hardfought 17:25 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:28 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:19796 17:30 You exist if you doubt your existence 17:31 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Pri Elf Fem Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:2076 17:33 Are there any YANIs about a charged magical horn that creates allied monsters? If not, putting it up there. 17:33 Opinion: P and W should be the same command, as should R and T. 17:34 I think the devteam is slowly merging them. 17:34 You can use them interchangably, but pressing R when only wearing one ring/pendant will remove it instantly instead of brining up a prompt 17:34 And vice versa with T when wearing only one piece of armor 17:35 P and W only differ in the choices that pop up in the prompt 17:35 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 17:37 Controversial proposal: make only one of T/R do the thing, fully merge them, and make the freed-up command do #terrain. 17:38 I propose make R do the thing since it's closer to other common keys 17:40 -!- stenno_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:42 aosdict: if you do this T/R and P/W thing will there be a way to assign keybindings in the config? 17:47 yeah the main reason *not* to do that is you would get inundated by complaints about muscle memory 17:47 and I think I personally have exhausted all goodwill on the "change things from how they are in vanilla" for a good long while 17:48 `OPTIONS=unified_equip_keys`? 17:50 no, 3.6.1 should allow command reconfiguration without adding new options 17:50 But does it allow binding a command to multiple keys at once and combining commands? 17:50 theoretically you should already be able to reconfigure T to #terrain 17:51 You can probably bind a command to multiple keys at once, but you probably can't combine them. 17:54 > Water gushes forth from the overflowing fountain! The little dog drowns. 17:54 I feel like this happens every time I dip for excalibur 17:54 Ah fuck water demon 17:55 [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed Croesus, on T:35690 17:55 Man, I got really early oracle and soko (dlvl 5 and 6) 17:57 does that drowning charge you for murder? 17:57 or not murder but pet-murder 17:57 I don't think it does if you didn't displace your pet into the water. Same thing happened to me and there wasn't a message indicating the gods were pissed. 17:58 I guess you can't control where the pools appear 17:59 PavelB: well it's not like they're independent of each other 17:59 It's still usually a couple floors after Soko 18:01 PavelB: Er? 18:01 Isn't it? 18:01 Isn't what? 18:01 PavelB: soko entrance is always right below oracle 18:01 Sokoban is not a couple of levels after Soko. Nor is the Oracle. 18:02 aosdict: Ah, I didn't know 18:02 Pinkbeast: Just because I made a typo doesn't mean you have to pretend to not know what I meant 18:02 PavelB: I wasn't pretending. I have no idea what you meant. 18:04 EPI: make a new branch, "Soko", which has nothing to do with Sokoban, and put it a couple of levels before Sokoban. This won't cause any confusion, right? 18:04 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 18:23 could be "Soco" which is what kids used to call "Southern Comfort whiskey". A level filled with booze and nymphs. 18:24 "a level full of nymphs isn't that bad", said unnethack 18:26 "unnethack is incorrect", said PavelB 18:27 * K2 loves him some unnethack 18:27 i need to give convict role a serious go 18:28 I hate the nymph level. Last time I just stripped naked and left all my stuff on the floor above. 18:28 then punched them all 18:31 When one gets the "identify all items in inventory" effect, there should really be a choice which items you want to identify 18:31 [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed Asmodeus, on T:37631 18:32 bouquet: congrats, you circumvent the danger of it completely :-) 18:33 of course not the danger of being beaten to a pulp by anything that spawns randomly :-D 18:33 PeterQ: Why would you want something *not* identified? 18:33 it was a while ago. They'd already stripped most of my kit so I didn't have much to lose 18:36 [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed Orcus, on T:37702 18:36 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 18:36 PavelB: sometimes you have informally identified and named items (e.g. a stack of uncursed +0 daggers) which you would like to stack with newly found ones, you also can't sell identified glass 18:37 But glass is worthless for selling purposes anyway 18:37 and dnethack also has an "identifyless" conduct, which could randomly be broken if you sit on a throne 18:37 [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed Baalzebub, on T:37717 18:38 xnethack will always group ID's and unID'd items if they're acutally the same item, which is nice 18:40 [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:37832 18:40 not if you got 20+ of multiple colors, and that's easily possible if you identify glass by drop frequency 18:41 -!- stenno_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:41 [hdf-us] [nh362] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:37913 18:44 So you identfify new items automatically if you have already formally identified the same type of item before? Or only if BUC, enchantment and corrosion matches 18:48 -!- MysteryMyra has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 18:57 -!- luxidwarf has joined #hardfought 18:57 !tell aosdict https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Mother 18:57 Will do, luxidwarf! 18:57 untagged page with strange image 18:58 !tell aosdict untagged page with strange image 18:58 Will do, luxidwarf! 19:00 if you tame her she'll give you candy bars. 19:00 -!- luxidwarf has quit [Client Quit] 19:22 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 5796 points, T:8199, killed by a rothe 19:26 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:37 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 19:42 -!- stenno_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:50 [hdf-us] [fh] Misty (Tolemanes) (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 86664 points, T:41635, killed by a vampire bat, in explore mode 20:09 [hdf-us] [spl] Tmasher (Dra Hum Fem Law), 694 points, T:2456, killed by a gas spore's explosion 20:10 @luxidream wut 20:10 aosdict: Message from luxidwarf at 2018-08-27 18:57 EDT: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Mother 20:10 aosdict: Message from luxidwarf at 2018-08-27 18:58 EDT: untagged page with strange image 20:12 @luxidream I think this is a weird interaction with the infobox template 20:13 someone used a monster name=Mother, which looks for a tile called Mother 20:13 when the page was created, that would have been a redlink 20:15 and then for some inexplicable reason, someone else uploaded this picture and titled it Mother.png 20:15 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 20:15 and the wiki automatically linked and pasted in that image 20:19 [hdf-us] [nh362] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3474 20:23 [hdf-us] [nh362] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping a plumed helmet on an altar, on T:4058 20:28 [hdf-us] [nh362] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Stormbringer bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:4363 20:32 -!- PeterQ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 20:42 -!- Tarmunora__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42 [hdf-us] [nh362] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:5174 20:43 -!- Tarmunora__ has joined #hardfought 20:43 [hdf-us] [nh362] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) polymorphed his first object, on T:5193 20:43 -!- stenno_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:44 -!- Tarmunora__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44 -!- Tarmunora__ has joined #hardfought 20:48 [hdf-us] [nh362] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:5759 20:50 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 262 points, T:1126, killed by a gas spore's explosion 20:56 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 449 points, T:895, killed by a falling rock 20:57 -!- dell30 has joined #hardfought 20:57 [hdf-us] [nh362] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a gnome zombie, on T:7071 21:07 -!- Tarmunora__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08 -!- Tarmunora__ has joined #hardfought 21:11 -!- tacco| has quit [] 21:16 -!- Tarmunora__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17 -!- Tarmunora__ has joined #hardfought 21:17 [hdf-us] [nh362] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:9670 21:22 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 21:25 -!- Luxidream has joined #hardfought 21:26 [hdf-us] [nh362] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Sting bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:10204 21:38 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 21:44 -!- stenno_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:57 -!- Luxidream2 has joined #hardfought 21:59 -!- Luxidream has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:05 -!- [Demo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05 -!- Tarmunora__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06 -!- Tarmunora__ has joined #hardfought 22:11 [hdf-us] [nh362] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 65130 points, T:13808, killed by a zruty 22:14 -!- dell30 has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:26 -!- LuxidreamWasTake has joined #hardfought 22:28 [hdf-us] [nh362] samiam (Arc Hum Mal Law), 627 points, T:2130, killed by a giant ant 22:29 -!- Luxidream2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:30 -!- Luxidream2 has joined #hardfought 22:32 -!- Luxidream has joined #hardfought 22:34 -!- LuxidreamWasTake has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:35 -!- Luxidream2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:37 -!- Luxidream has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:39 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 22:42 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 312 points, T:722, killed by a gnome 22:44 -!- stenno_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:46 -!- greqrg has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:47 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Pri Elf Fem Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:1008 22:50 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 800 points, T:1411, killed by a gnome lord 22:52 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 23 points, T:56, killed by a bolt of cold 22:52 well armed orc on dl1 22:54 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 12 points, T:296, killed by a fox 22:56 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 129 points, T:474, killed by a newt 23:01 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:10 [hdf-us] [nh362] barleywine (Cav Dwa Mal Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a small mimic, on T:7879 23:10 [hdf-us] [nh362] barleywine (Cav Dwa Mal Law), 6029 points, T:7882, quit 23:13 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 1445 points, T:2543, killed by a gnome 23:40 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 23:45 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:50 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 23:50 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 23:54 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:54 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 23:56 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 23:56 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 23:57 -!- Tarmunora__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59 -!- Tarmunora__ has joined #hardfought