00:07 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:09 -!- introsp3ctive has joined #hardfought 00:15 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:15 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 00:48 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 00:49 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:58 [hdf-us] [spl] k2 (Wiz Inf Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:21955 01:04 [hdf-us] [fh] egg (kelvin) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 12479 points, T:1130, killed by a giant mimic 01:06 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 01:11 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:30 -!- MiseryMyra has joined #hardfought 01:30 [hdf-us] [fh] her (kelvin) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 23929 points, T:2336, killed by a killer bee 01:39 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:46 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 01:46 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 01:47 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 01:48 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 01:49 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 01:51 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 01:52 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 01:52 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 01:54 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 01:54 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 02:01 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:03 -!- introsp3ctive has joined #hardfought 02:15 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v theRaisse] by ChanServ 02:15 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 02:23 [hdf-us] [nh361] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Medusa, on T:25588 02:36 ... and then died because I got overconfident. Ah well. 02:38 nethack players need someone to whisper "memento mori" in their ear, like Roman generals on triumph 02:46 [hdf-us] [nh361] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 286957 points, T:27375, killed by an ettin 02:51 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:07 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 03:12 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:39 -!- MysteryMyra has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 03:43 -!- Ohelig9 has joined #hardfought 03:46 -!- Ohelig9 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 04:03 -!- cfields27 has joined #hardfought 04:03 -!- cfields27 has quit [Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 04:06 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1] 04:31 -!- Announcy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32 -!- Announcy has joined #hardfought 04:32 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Announcy] by ChanServ 05:08 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 05:13 -!- stenno_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:16 time for irish breakfast OpieOP 05:39 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:43 YASI: suicide skill, trains whenever your character dies as a result of your own actions, e.g. throwing an object upward or voluntarily stepping into lava. If the skill is high enough, it becomes easier to kill yourself... but unless you have many amulets of life saving, you won't actually be around to enhance the skill :P 05:43 -!- bgiannan has joined #hardfought 05:51 you could extend to a karmic experience 05:51 former characters influence the skills of the following characters 05:55 [hdf-us] [un] arnibald (Con Hum Fem Cha), 1112 points, T:1238, killed by an arrow 05:55 heh, yeah, that would require a system to be in place which saves the progress you made with previous characters though 06:03 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:24 [hdf-us] [un] arnibald (Con Hum Mal Cha), 2060 points, T:1468, killed by a giant ant 06:34 -!- attie has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:36 -!- attie has joined #hardfought 07:09 -!- Xlbrag_ has joined #hardfought 07:09 -!- Xlbrag_ has quit [Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 07:09 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 07:14 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:23 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 07:44 LarienTelrunya: and I thought you were strongly opposed to such a system (like fourk unlockables) 07:47 aosdict: I'm only opposed to a system where those are forced on the player. If the player gets the choice (probably per account) whether unlockables are in place or everything is unlocked by default, everything would be great. I'd then have it all unlocked on one account and use another one for trying the "unlock them all" challenge ;) 07:48 Good morning 07:49 introsp3ctive: ♥ *bundlebundlebundle* :) 07:49 Thanks for that, Amy. :D 07:50 Up too early this morning. I've got an interview to prepare for. 07:53 well then, good luck! 07:58 Thank you! 07:58 How are you today? 07:59 [hdf-us] [un] vid (Hea Gno Mal Neu), 134 points, T:423, killed by a dart 08:02 LarienTelrunya: well karmic experience wouldn't exactly be something you could configure and set up for your first game on a clean install 08:02 so I would think it would be forced on the player 08:03 introsp3ctive: still got some stuff to sort out but there's things for me to look forward to, and it might include having more time for playing :) 08:03 That's always nice. 08:04 I've been playing a bit of Angband lately XD 08:04 oh really? you should play ToME-SX *bundlebundlebundle*, because it is a funny Angband variant I made ♥ 08:05 of course you did 08:05 is it anything like Slex? 08:05 here's a screenshot: https://abload.de/img/tm02933guoz.png 08:06 Lmao 08:08 wait, this one is even better: https://abload.de/img/tm01684bsia.png 08:11 :D 08:11 Why, Amy, just why? 08:11 Why do I have to fight shoes in all your games? 08:12 because it's fun? :D all games that I get my hands on are being modded to include shoooooooes ♥ 08:13 of course, regular angbandy stuff still exists in my variant too: https://abload.de/img/tm0257z2jmn.png 08:13 I'll be sure to send you a copy of my roguelike when it's finished so you can fill it with shoes too 08:13 yaaaaaaaaay ♥♥♥ 💞 08:16 you're making a roguelike? what about 08:16 ? 08:18 aosdict: humans finally being able to settle on a planet other than Earth and join the universal society now that they're advanced enough to do so 08:20 It's more sci-fi/cyberpunk in theme rather than the traditional high fantasy 08:20 introsp3ctive: Amy Patch idea: but they then find out that said planet is inhabited by sentient shooooooes that want to kick and hurt the humans :D (sorry I just couldn't resist!) 08:21 Hm, so what's the gameplay like? 08:22 It plays a bit like Tome4. 08:23 But a lot more simulation aspects because it's open world. 08:31 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:00 [hdf-us] [nh361] munterplant (Val Hum Fem Law) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:1595 09:05 [hdf-us] [nh361] munterplant (Val Hum Fem Law), 1958 points, T:1896, killed by a wand 09:10 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 09:10 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 09:15 -!- stenno_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:25 -!- Guest85275 has joined #hardfought 09:25 -!- Guest85275 has quit [Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 09:30 [hdf-us] [nh361] munterplant (Val Hum Fem Law), 438 points, T:1067, killed by a werejackal 09:41 [hdf-us] [un] vid (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 4638 points, T:4660, killed by a crocodile 09:43 [hdf-us] [nh361] CatPurrson (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1609 points, T:2558, killed by a bolt of lightning 09:53 [hdf-us] [un] vid (Arc Gno Mal Neu), 506 points, T:1038, killed by a giant ant 10:14 https://twitter.com/PatSnowpaw/status/1031928953156657162 10:15 Here your generic German is lecturing unnamed other generic Germans about excavating pits 10:15 You notice the use of § but no use of # 10:16 surely it's ^ and not #? 10:17 oh, wrong channel. 10:17 :) 10:17 so is "who digs a pit for another" a saying and/or joke in German too? 10:18 we pondered earlier today in #em.slashem.me the position of § on a German keyboard. it's where the # (shift-3) is on the US layout 10:18 yeah. 10:19 it's losely translated "who sets up a pit trap for somebody, will fall into it themselves". karmic hope 10:19 yesh, we have it verbatim. stolen from you guys i bet 10:20 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:20 it's not always obvious who stole from whom. most of the time, it got handed down separately from the romans or greeks anyway 10:21 true enough 10:21 oh, it's from the bible 10:22 https://www.bibleserver.com/text/KJV/Ecclesiastes10 10:22 <[Demo]> wow u stole it from jesus 10:22 <[Demo]> not cool 10:23 Jesus shares 10:23 Jesus would run a Bittorrent client today 10:25 <[Demo]> bible pirates 10:27 we combine it with other sayings like so: He who digs a pit for another / laughs best. 10:39 hi 10:39 Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought 10:48 Wer andren eine Grube graebt, hat meist ein Grubengrabgeraet 10:50 * aosdict likes the idea of Jesus pirating everything 10:55 K2: making another livelog change you/Tangles may want to pull: when you kill the WoY it says where you are 10:56 ok 10:56 Tangles is out of the loop mostly for the rest of this week 10:56 he's at a conference 10:56 can we generally get level descriptions regarding livelog 10:56 like, branch and DL 10:56 if that's possible 10:56 eh, in most cases it would be irrelevant information IMO 10:57 and if anyone's really interested they can !whereis 10:57 like, ok you killed asmodeus. gee I wonder what level that happened on 10:58 or you consumed animal products for the first time on level 4 11:03 i think there are only a few ones that are irrelevant 11:03 maybe quest boss killing 11:04 quest entering 11:04 soko finished 11:04 gehe entering 11:04 i agree with aosdict. we already have a whereis function for most variants 11:04 how about it gets saved in livelog, but not displayed by the bot? 11:04 !whereis 11:04 in that case we can look it up by querying the livelog file 11:04 to add that to livelogging would be significant 11:05 !who 11:05 bug_sniper: [hdf-us] No current players | [hdf-eu] PeterQ [dnh] | [hdf-au] No current players 11:05 as in significant undertaking 11:05 !whereis PeterQ 11:05 oh? 11:05 bug_sniper: [hdf-eu] PeterQ [dnh]: (Con Orc Mal Neu) T:136659 The Dungeons of Doom level: 8 11:05 ok then 11:05 !whereis bug_sniper 11:05 K2: bug_sniper is not playing. 11:05 !whereis Jesus 11:05 K2: Jesus is not playing. 11:05 :( 11:06 haha 11:07 I don't think it would be a _significant_ undertaking, but it would certainly be an annoying one. 11:09 can i not access the game context inside the function that writes the livelog? 11:09 (apparently not) 11:11 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 11:11 <[Demo]> couldnt whereis be built into dgl? 11:11 it is 11:11 I thought u.uz was global. 11:11 at least to a certain extend 11:12 actually it is in 3.4.3 11:12 on NAO 11:12 <[Demo]> something that tries to parse the watch view from dgl 11:12 oh that way around 11:12 * stenno checks on hdf 11:13 aosdict: well then.. 11:13 <[Demo]> it would be ghetto and not work sometimes and be a mess to do but then it would work on things without needing to do it to all of them 11:13 ah we have EXTRA oh hdf 11:13 nice 11:13 in dgl 11:14 i think NAO doesn't have extra for non-3.4.3 11:14 yeah no extra for 3.6.1 11:14 oh that's probably dNAO's extra, come to think of it 11:15 <[Demo]> what is EXTRA? 11:16 -!- stenno_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:16 !who 11:16 stenno: [hdf-us] No current players | [hdf-eu] PeterQ [dnh] | [hdf-au] No current players 11:16 [Demo]: extrainfo 11:16 that thing in the last column of the watch menu 11:16 [Demo]: check out PeterQ's game on hdf-eu 11:17 <[Demo]> ah 11:18 D10 = DoD level 10 11:18 but that must be NAO's patch which got into dnethack 11:18 unnethack already got the dungeon branch name in the livelog 11:19 <[Demo]> i had an awful dream i was playing un last night 11:19 <[Demo]> but i thought it was vanilla 11:19 <[Demo]> so bad shit happened to me 11:19 ah yes we have extra stuff for 3.6.1 on hdf 11:19 so somebody (tangles) did another good job here 11:19 hdf > nao 11:19 [Demo]: like no instadeath from poison. the horror! 11:20 er that was supposed to be (tangles?) 11:20 "how come that i don't get forced back!" 11:20 Hm, apparently no 3.x variants offer polyinit mode? 11:20 "what is this madness" 11:20 <[Demo]> like losing my entire inventory on dlvl 11 11:20 don't do that, [Demo] 11:20 <[Demo]> or dying to a disenchanter on dlvl 3 11:20 losing your inventory is not a good ide 11:20 a 11:21 <[Demo]> true 11:21 why are you fighting a disenchanter on lvl 3? 11:21 <[Demo]> wet shit zoos with the falling tiles and the rust monsters 11:21 do disenchanters even do damage? 11:21 <[Demo]> yeah they hurt 11:21 <[Demo]> @u?disenchanter 11:21 when they are cancelled 11:22 *if 11:22 <[Demo]> they still do damage if they arent 11:22 they do? 11:22 <[Demo]> and it is a lot to a lvl 3 or so character 11:22 <[Demo]> yes try to fight one as like an xlvl 1 valk or something 11:24 disenchanters do damage, yeah 11:24 rust monsters don't 11:24 disenchanters are like 4d4 or so 11:25 <[Demo]> if you're gonna let them show up on like dlvl3 dont let them do any damage at least 11:26 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 11:26 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 11:27 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 11:37 !tell K2 I accidentally broke saves in slex locally (not pushed to github yet). This means that if you don't feel like updating hdf-slex to 2.30, I might as well do some more savebreaking stuff on 2.31 and then tell you once that version becomes save-stable ;) 11:37 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 11:38 <[Demo]> u save breaker u 11:38 yeah it was unintended, apparently editing a single number in qtext.h breaks saves 11:38 or you could just rebase so that the savebreaking changes move elsewhere 11:38 like onto 2.31 or something 11:39 aosdict: I'm planning to make a 2.30 compatibility branch anyway, but I also want to work on the new 2.31 of course 11:39 also, unrelated, but we need a new quest text system like yesterday 11:39 <[Demo]> wait what 11:40 <[Demo]> rewriting the quest text system? 11:42 oh lovely I just created another killed by a died bug 11:43 -!- beaky24 has joined #hardfought 11:43 -!- beaky24 has quit [Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 11:44 <[Demo]> nice those are fun 11:46 go team died! 11:53 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:01 -!- lorimer has joined #hardfought 12:06 -!- astag has joined #hardfought 12:07 LarienTelrunya ok i'll wait for 2.31 12:07 K2: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-08-22 11:37 EDT: I accidentally broke saves in slex locally (not pushed to github yet). This means that if you don't feel like updating hdf-slex to 2.30, I might as well do some more savebreaking stuff on 2.31 and then tell you once that version becomes save-stable ;) 12:07 alright :) 12:07 -!- PeterQ has joined #hardfought 12:08 gonna take a week or so until I get done with that version though, real life is quite turbulent right now 12:08 no rush on my end 12:10 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:13 -!- introsp3ctive has joined #hardfought 12:25 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 12:48 Does throwing a cursed tripe ration at a dog do bad things 13:07 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 13:09 Beholder: I spotted one message for me in the logs, are there others? 13:09 ais523: Messages from aosdict and @Luxidream have been forwarded to you privately. 13:10 * K2 pets Beholder 13:10 aosdict: re Wisdom exercise/abuse, tinkering with that sort of thing is not in NH4's current remit, even if it would be logical to set up some rules for how it worked 13:11 arguably it makes sense to exercise/abuse Wisdom for being good/bad at guessing, for example (I'm not sure I'd want to /make/ that argument but it isn't ridiculous) 13:12 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 13:12 re vegetarian Monks, I would be very surprised if the devteam as a whole agreed with you; you can figure it out by reading the Guidebook and/or possibly reason it out using real-world knowledge, which most of the old guard would consider more than enough hints 13:13 err, 13:13 @Luxidream: NetHack could really do with a general rethink of how farmove commands; if this happened in vanilla it's probably not a bug but could do with being changed anyway; if this happened in NH4 or a derivative it's probably a uim bug 13:14 "I pressed a movement command and something weird happened" is a uim bug like 99% of the time ;-) 13:15 > You are now wearing a plastic cloak of displacement. 13:15 Which, I assume, looks like a poncho. 13:16 -!- stenno_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:17 I misread that as a cloak of disappointment 13:17 [hdf-us] [xnh] PavelB (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at her by some watery tart, on T:3154 13:22 Expecting players to read the Guidebook for minutiae is probably not as good of a bet as it was twenty years ago, though 13:24 I didn't even read it 20^W30 years ago 13:50 -!- mode/Beholder [+RZi] by Beholder 13:50 -!- moon.freenode.net changed the topic on #hardfought to: Welcome to Hardfought - https://www.hardfought.org/ - public irc logs available on website ¤ Public NetHack server - ssh nethack@hardfought.org, nethack@eu.hardfought.org or nethack@au.hardfought.org ¤ You need to be registered with freenode or voiced in this channel to be 'heard' until the spambot issue goes away. Please register and identify an account with freenode 13:50 Avian carriers. 13:50 Hi Beholder 13:50 !ping 13:50 PavelB: Pong! 13:50 there we go 13:50 didnt want to connect initially 13:50 ais523: Have you considered getting an internet connection 13:50 chat.us.freenode.net 13:50 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Beholder] by ChanServ 13:50 apparently a common issue in tech support is people complaining about wireless routers not working, and then discovering that people didn't plug them in because they were wireless 13:50 It seems pretty convenient 13:50 my router can actually work without any wires involved 13:50 ais523: Oh wow. 13:51 thus presumably making this situation even more confusing 13:51 How is it powered? 13:51 induction 13:51 rechargeable battery 13:51 Ah. 13:51 he said magic 13:51 although it's on a charger at the moment 13:51 Induction would have been cooler 13:51 it would have been 13:51 its powered by sheer force of will 13:51 tesla coil would have been cooler still, I guess 13:52 ais523 wants to be online, therefore he is 13:52 <@rikersan> What if ais is just an internet connection 13:52 <@rikersan> Like not a person 13:53 <@rikersan> Just a sentient bundle of electricity 13:53 like Jarvis 13:53 from iron man 13:53 K2: You should probably voice some people, there are a lot of people connected that are neither voiced nor authed 13:54 if it's a sentient bundle of electricity that contributes code to nethack then I'm fine with it 13:54 or they should just register and identify like a normal user would 13:54 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 13:54 i dont have time to manually voice everyone that connects throughout the day 13:55 !players 13:55 K2: [hdf-us] bouquet [spl] hypnotist [nh361] hothraxxa [xnh] | [hdf-eu] PeterQ [dnh] | [hdf-au] No current players 13:58 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 13:59 -!- Guest61832 has joined #hardfought 13:59 -!- Guest61832 has quit [Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 13:59 is the spambot attack /still/ ongoing, then? 13:59 yes 13:59 wow 13:59 that guest that just connected was another spam attempt 13:59 someone must be spending a fortune on this 14:00 i doubt any money was spent 14:00 just a lot of time investment 14:00 I assume it costs money to rent a botnet 14:00 shows just how many systems were compromised 14:01 all the spambots I looked up the IPs of were also doing email spam 14:01 if it weren't a distributed attack, they could just ip-ban and be done with it 14:01 in a sufficiently naive way that spamcatchers picked them up purely from technical indicators on the email, without even needing to analyse the contents 14:01 that makes it pretty likely that this is a botnet-for-hire 14:02 that's... stupid 14:02 but hey we live in stupid times 14:03 most spammers aren't very smart 14:04 I've received spam with unsubstituted placeholders more than once 14:04 spammers referring to themselves as FEMALE_NAME rather than with an actual female name, for example 14:06 Typo based YASI: amulet of unchanting. While wearing it you can't cast spells. 14:07 Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky has a range of typo-based items, IMO it's one of the worst ideas in the game 14:07 LarienTelrunya probably wants to snag this idea for slex though 14:07 ais523: unsubstituted placeholders are common. 14:08 I've also received spam that gave me the strong impression that the sender had been scammed by a spam-services firm 14:08 although I can't remember why 14:08 Usually with syntax, such as %CUSTOMER% 14:09 like, they convinced someone to use them to send spam but the spam itself was of such low quality that it couldn't possibly provide benefits to the sender 14:09 The ones I don't get are the spammers who send out messages that contain no apparent payload at all, just a markov chain. 14:09 Dunno what the motivation is there. 14:09 does your email client block images? 14:09 Block? 14:09 often the message will be in an image and the markov chain is used to make the email look like "legitimate email containing text and an image" 14:09 Gnus can save images if they're attached. 14:09 block as in not-load or not-show 14:09 aosdict: from ad&d it'd be a type of silence spell/object 14:10 cancels any verbal spell component 14:10 mirai-type botnets are usually several million strong 14:10 oh, you mean a _good_ object? 14:10 YANI: silence auras that prevent both you and monsters casting; could be useful for many characters ini FIQHack-alikes 14:10 and mirai is open source 14:10 if the botnet has been used for other things too, someone may well have a list of affected machines already 14:11 its not unlikely that many of those are IoT networks 14:11 er 14:11 YANI: silence spell, which is a beam. Silenced monsters can't be #chatted to or cast spells, so it's basically a weaker cancellation for spellcasters 14:11 IoT machines 14:11 My V4-Host APic.Name is on DroneBL 14:11 (at least mirai exploited IoT, i think some router) 14:12 So i have to connect to FreeNode and HackInt via V6 14:12 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirai_(malware) 14:12 Probably because i run my sshd on non-standard Port 2342 instead of 22 14:13 (Because i get much less Noise there) 14:13 (I really hope there is no Backdoor unknown to me that sends Spam...) 14:13 right, port 22 is generally full of random password brute-forcers 14:14 and the good thing about IRC is that you basically just need nc as a client 14:14 'good' 14:14 I've IRCed over netcat before now, it isn't difficult 14:14 so spamming it is very easy, no giant payload required 14:14 yeah 14:14 its really not difficult 14:14 you can use telnet too because IRC servers generally just ignore the telnet metadata 14:14 yeah you can connect to freenode with telnet, have done that too before 14:15 rip services 14:15 the last really big spambot attack against Freenode used HTTP, apparently freenode's old ircd ignored HTTP headers 14:15 and it had to be upgraded to drop the connection if it saw them 14:15 ouch 14:15 (it was spamming a link to a website which would send more spam onto Freenode if you visited it…) 14:16 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 14:16 -!- rikersan has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 14:18 <[Demo]> damnn 14:18 <[Demo]> thats pretty neat 14:18 -!- Tangles has joined #hardfought 14:23 [hdf-us] [un] vid (Val Dwa Fem Law), 3331 points, T:3273, killed by a bolt of fire 14:24 "joke's on you, centos doesnt have nc installed by default" 14:24 neither telnet 14:24 neither wget 14:24 neither curl 14:25 ftp? 14:26 idk, never used it 14:26 clutching at straws here but you need to be able to bootstrap a system somehow 14:26 probably yes 14:26 I guess it has bash, that has netcattish builtins nowadays 14:26 well you have a package manager 14:26 FTP is what I use when setting up a new Windows system (you use it to download Firefox and then Firefox to download everything else) 14:27 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Quit: See you space cowboy...] 14:28 actually it _might_ have wget by default 14:29 i am not sure what the package manager 'yum' uses to download 14:29 I'd be surprised if it were anything other than system calls to the kernel 14:29 most "complex" programs don't use system call wrappers like netcat 14:31 well its written in python 14:31 so it has its own client 14:31 (i ... think?) 14:33 oh wow tkinter is still a thing in python 3 14:33 -!- Tangles_ has joined #hardfought 14:33 -!- Tangles has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:33 -!- introsp3ctive has joined #hardfought 14:34 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles_] by ChanServ 14:35 -!- stenno has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36 -!- tacco| has joined #hardfought 14:42 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 14:44 -!- ais523 has quit [Changing host] 14:44 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 14:49 -!- elenmirie__ has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 14:53 stscp 14:53 Err. 14:53 Oh, I see. Tab completion fails because he is offline. 14:54 ais523: I think some package managers use libcurl. 14:54 Others use libwww. 14:54 ais523: Is that really how much you have internet explorer, that you ftp firefox 14:55 PavelB: Depending on the version of Windows, the IE that comes with it may not be good enough to use modern websites to download things. 14:55 *hate? it's not so much hatred, more a matter of principle 14:55 jonadab: It's good enough to download FF to download everything else 14:55 try using IE6 on most sites nowadays 14:55 its funny 14:55 For example, the version of MSIE that came with Windows XP before SP2 has not been possible to use to download even a new version of IE, since before SP2 came out. 14:55 even more funny is grabbing netscape 4.0 14:55 I actually have IE6 installed on this Linux computer 14:55 PavelB: It isn't. 14:55 although I never use it while connected to the Internet 14:55 because that seems highly likely to be a security disaster 14:55 Well, maybe if you use it on ftp.mozilla.org. 14:55 !who 14:55 FIQ: [hdf-us] k2 [spl] ahrimen [fh] hypnotist [nh361] Eleven [nh361] vid [un] hothraxxa [xnh] | [hdf-eu] PeterQ [dnh] Schmensch [nh361] | [hdf-au] No current players 14:56 If you are for some reason setting up Windows 98 or earlier, the IE that ships with those is even more hilariously useless. 14:56 * K2 misses netscape 4.0 14:56 I once managed to blank [[Talk:Main Page]] on Wikipedia using a very old version of Mozilla (not Firefox) 14:56 K2: Navigator 4.08 ftw. 14:56 hell yeah 14:56 i just remembered netscape 14:57 jonadab: I once sent IE4 into an infinite loop using a recursive frameset 14:57 ais523: with wine? 14:57 aosdict: it's a wine-based wrapper 14:57 i would use it and the built in email client 14:57 K2: Ah, you had Communicator then. 14:57 Speaking of wine, does anyone know what the difference between Wine and Proton is 14:57 I've been trying to figure it out 14:57 The email client was never any good, though. 14:57 it had a memory leak, so Windows asked if I wanted to close the program because it was using too much memory, but neither the "yes" or "no" buttons did anything 14:57 one is a beverage, the other is a fundamental particle 14:57 well back then i wouldnt have known any better 14:57 It had a tiny fraction of the functionality of ten-years-older clients like Eudora and Pegasus. 14:57 and eventually there was a crash-to-desktop that took the toolbar containing the start menu with it 14:58 so you had /just/ the desktop, nothing else 14:58 i was new to the interwebz in 1995-96 14:58 jonadab: oh wow, I remember Pegasus; never used it myself but I saw other people using it when I was young 14:58 oh, explorer.exe crashes are fun 14:58 ais523: Pegasus is one of the better email clients ever made, IMO. 14:58 quite some time ago (more than a decade) I used a family computer that was rather slow 14:58 probably virus-ridden 14:58 Unfortunately, it has not been well maintained since about 2000. 14:58 im creepin on u k2 14:58 but explorer kept crashing on it 14:59 But it's _still_ better than a lot of what's out there. 14:59 at the moment I use Evolution, which is just fine in terms of features but has the occasional really bizarre bug 14:59 Including Thunderbird. 14:59 lol i saw that 14:59 :) 14:59 also thunderbird makes me sad 14:59 lol 14:59 i think i hate mail clients 14:59 i think i should consider mutt 14:59 The only email client I've tried to use is kmail 14:59 K2: I was born in 1994 14:59 * aosdict uses thunderbird and is content with it 14:59 ;) 14:59 I normally just use the email provider's webapp 14:59 ha! so was my eldest daughter 15:00 I gave up Pegasus in late 1998 because I was tired of booting into Windows to get my email. So I made myself learn Gnus. 15:00 i briefly got online once or twice in 1991 15:00 prodigy i think it was called 15:00 Can't deploy Gnus for end users, because the learning curve is obscene. 15:00 i cant remember 15:00 one thing that surprised me is that it was capable of connecting to email accounts via Microsoft's webclient, I think it was doing some sort of scraping 15:00 I used pine for a really long time but now I'm having kmail fetch mail from the remote server 15:00 hmm no, 1992 15:00 jonadab: im a bit skeptical about gnus - i think mu4e might be the best emacs email client for me 15:00 my first venture onto internet was around 1999, but I only started using it somewhat seriously in 2004 15:00 jonadab: I could do with a good newsreader, really 15:00 knode :-) 15:00 gnus is a decent news reader tbh, from what i hear 15:01 i remember my first website that i wrote in '96 15:01 yes, heard good things about that too 15:01 I'm using xpn at the moment because pan had a habit of crashing and creating junk PEM files in my home directory (with names that looked suspiciously like uninitialised data) 15:01 it was so basic 15:01 Gnus has a high learning curve and is not multi-threaded, but in every other respect is amazingly good. 15:01 i used hotdog to make it 15:01 it seems mu4e is really promising 15:01 but xpn has a few issues with its editor, and also is refusing to subscribe to rgrn (specifically; it's working for many other newsgroups) for some reason 15:01 for email 15:01 it uses xapian and is not tied into emacs for heavy lifting 15:01 -!- webstenno has joined #hardfought 15:02 Hi webstenno and welcome to #hardfought. Enjoy your stay! 15:02 -!- webstenno has quit [Changing host] 15:02 -!- webstenno has joined #hardfought 15:02 -!- webstenno has quit [Changing host] 15:02 -!- webstenno has joined #hardfought 15:02 hi 15:02 Hello webstenno, Welcome to #hardfought 15:02 [hdf-us] [fh] ahrimen (Val Dwa Fem Law), 41658 points, T:3839, killed by a mumak 15:02 ooh, it might be working now? I have a suspicion that it was one specific message it didn't like 15:02 what happened to my client 15:02 and that message may have fallen out of spool by now 15:02 you can of course hook notmuch into gnus 15:02 i cannot auth with sasl anymore it seems? 15:03