00:01 [hdf-us] [fh] ahrimen (Val Dwa Mal Law), 25541 points, T:2763, killed by a watchman 00:02 -!- Luxidream has joined #hardfought 00:05 -!- Luxidream has quit [Client Quit] 00:06 -!- Luxidream has joined #hardfought 00:10 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 00:10 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 00:11 -!- Luxidream has quit [Client Quit] 00:12 -!- Luxidream has joined #hardfought 00:13 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:14 -!- Luxidream has quit [Client Quit] 00:28 [hdf-us] [fh] ahrimen (Val Dwa Fem Law), 37557 points, T:2767, killed by a bolt of fire 00:30 [hdf-us] [nh361] dwdunning (Pri Hum Mal Cha), 19 points, T:142, killed by a sewer rat 00:47 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:47 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 00:51 ur nick always makes me think of the rammstein song 00:53 -!- stenno2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:05 -!- introsp3ctive has joined #hardfought 01:34 -!- stenno2 has joined #hardfought 01:40 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:42 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:45 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 01:45 -!- stenno is now known as Guest72033 01:46 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:46 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 01:47 -!- LarienTelrunya_ has joined #hardfought 01:49 -!- Guest72033 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:49 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:50 -!- LarienTelrunya_ is now known as LarienTelrunya 01:53 -!- Tarmunora_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54 -!- Tarmunora_ has joined #hardfought 02:07 [hdf-us] [spl] antigulp (Dra Hum Fem Law), 1374 points, T:2220, killed by a water moccasin 02:20 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 02:20 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:29 -!- Announcy has joined #hardfought 02:29 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Announcy] by ChanServ 03:45 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 03:46 -!- stenno is now known as Guest97669 03:50 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1] 03:51 -!- Guest97669 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:53 -!- stenno__ has joined #hardfought 03:58 -!- stenno2 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:00 !tell jonadab https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/930gfh/ive_noticed_roguelikes_becoming_more_grindy_in/ (specifically my post about fourk unlockables, and the follow-up posts) 04:00 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 04:11 -!- stenno__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:58 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:12 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 05:12 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 06:00 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:07 -!- Muad has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:08 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 06:08 -!- stenno is now known as Guest75404 06:10 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:10 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 06:10 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 06:12 -!- Guest75404 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:13 -!- raisse has quit [Client Quit] 06:14 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 06:14 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 06:23 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 07:01 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 07:01 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:28 Good morning 07:55 -!- stenno2 has joined #hardfought 08:00 -!- stenno2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:08 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 08:09 -!- stenno is now known as Guest37870 08:13 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 08:13 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 08:14 -!- Guest37870 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:20 !who 08:20 K2: Message from hothraxxa at 2018-07-29 21:42 EDT: froze up again in the lep hall 08:20 K2: [hdf-us] Eleven [nh361] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] No current players 08:22 !tell hothraxxa game recovered 08:22 Will do, K2! 08:30 [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Ran Hum Fem Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a werewolf, on T:10468 08:33 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:53 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:55 -!- introsp3ctive has joined #hardfought 09:08 LarienTelrunya: I can't imagine the fourk unlockables system NOT killing the amount it gets played in junethack. 09:09 aosdict: well, personally, I can't imagine the fourk unlockables system not killing the amount it gets played period, because not everyone wants to have to take a barbarian to the quest, people want to play different roles :D 09:13 -!- Hrogart has joined #hardfought 09:19 <[Demo]> what's a fourk unlockable 09:23 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:28 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 09:28 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 09:31 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:34 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:37 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:39 -!- introsp3ctive has joined #hardfought 09:41 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 10:07 -!- Tarmunora_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08 -!- Tarmunora_ has joined #hardfought 10:09 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 10:10 -!- stenno is now known as Guest49314 10:14 -!- Guest49314 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:24 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:24 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 10:51 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Suddenly, Raisse disappears out of sight.] 10:51 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:51 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 10:59 [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Ran Hum Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:16408 11:09 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 11:09 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 11:09 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:17 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 11:17 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 11:19 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:28 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 11:29 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 11:32 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:43 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Quit: See you space cowboy...] 11:45 [Demo]: Apparantly there are plans so that some roles in fourk start "locked" and you have to ascend with "previous" roles in order to unlock them. 11:45 From what I can tell 11:46 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) killed Asmodeus, on T:47672 11:46 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:48 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) killed Baalzebub, on T:47716 11:48 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) killed Orcus, on T:47724 11:50 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:47809 11:50 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:47810 11:53 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 11:53 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 11:55 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:55 <@rikersan> oh dear god noo 11:55 <@rikersan> chris fixed ogresmasher 11:55 <@rikersan> :( 11:55 <[Demo]> what 11:55 <[Demo]> like he nerfed it or...? 11:55 <@rikersan> no retro hp gain 11:56 <[Demo]> what 11:56 <[Demo]> why 11:56 <@rikersan> !tell Chris_ANG why'd you fix ogresmasher? if not, then its' bugged, since my vamp binder at lvl 7 still has 50 hp regardless of wielding it or not 11:56 Will do, @rikersan! 11:56 <@rikersan> I don't even get it 11:56 <[Demo]> like that was its whole perk 11:56 <@rikersan> ya it's been changed 11:56 <@rikersan> a wizmode inc tourist has teh same result: no hp gain 11:56 <[Demo]> if i nerf it i will nerf it by making it not give str bonus in offhand 11:57 <[Demo]> but offhand is buffed a lot in dnh cause you can switch to it turnlessly 11:57 <@rikersan> that's fine 11:57 <@rikersan> ^ 11:57 <@rikersan> I'm actually planning on using it as a weapon so 11:57 <[Demo]> oh well that sucks for you 11:57 <@rikersan> ya 11:57 <@rikersan> vamp binder, I'm gonna bind enki 11:57 <@rikersan> I"ve only got buer right now 11:57 <[Demo]> like even prenerf using it as a weapon would suck :P 11:57 <@rikersan> ikr 11:57 <@rikersan> but I like the hp 11:57 <@rikersan> goes well with insane regen from buer + vampire 11:58 <[Demo]> i like how vampire intrinsic regen isnt affected by itching 11:58 <@rikersan> yes 12:02 <@rikersan> amusing thing of the day: you can BUC blessed things as vampires easily, just wield it 12:03 <[Demo]> do you get a message for cursed? 12:03 <@rikersan> nope 12:04 <@rikersan> the fun part is: that works for things like magic lamps and potions of water 12:04 <@rikersan> and that is how I uncursed that cursed lamp I just found 12:04 <[Demo]> how do you know if it is cursed? 12:05 <@rikersan> try to turn it on a bunch of times 12:05 <@rikersan> if it's cursed, it will occansionally flicker and die 12:05 <[Demo]> no i mean for like water 12:05 <@rikersan> oh 12:05 <@rikersan> I don't 12:05 <@rikersan> I just knew that it couldn't hurt 12:06 <[Demo]> i still need to take on the itchiness message fix patch and the anticursedwelding patch 12:06 <[Demo]> but im lazy and they are both big and id be doing them by hand 12:06 <@rikersan> lol 12:06 <@rikersan> ther's a new thing for !oDetMonst 12:06 <@rikersan> if there's nothign there, it now says "no life signs detected" and doesnt' use up the potion 12:07 <@rikersan> it still will be consumed if it does detect smth tho 12:07 <[Demo]> oh yeah i reported that to chris 12:07 <@rikersan> oh fuck yea 12:07 <[Demo]> he fucked up the logic on his sensor pack fix 12:07 <@rikersan> khor's mines end 12:07 <[Demo]> that was another commit im glad i took manually 12:07 <@rikersan> as a binder 12:07 <@rikersan> (the one with tons of altars) 12:08 <[Demo]> because i looked at it and was like yeah this is bullshit 12:09 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:09 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 12:10 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 12:11 -!- stenno is now known as Guest40127 12:11 -!- raisse has quit [Client Quit] 12:11 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:11 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 12:15 -!- Guest40127 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:27 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:31 -!- Luxidream has joined #hardfought 12:35 [hdf-us] [nh361] IceBox (Pri Elf Mal Cha) became literate by engraving "test", on T:3549 12:37 [hdf-us] [spl] antigulp (Pir Hum Fem Neu), 601 points, T:2140, killed by a packrat 12:39 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:44 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 12:46 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (master mind flayer), on T:51154 13:02 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 13:05 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:51916 13:05 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:51920 13:06 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:51946 13:15 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:52237 13:15 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:52240 13:16 [hdf-us] [nh361] Luxidream (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed fixed greased +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:1863 13:19 [hdf-us] [nh361] Luxidream (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at her by some watery tart, on T:2589 13:20 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) killed Yeenoghu, on T:52381 13:21 -!- introsp3ctive has joined #hardfought 13:30 [hdf-us] [nh361] Luxidream (Val Dwa Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:5156 13:33 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) genocided arch-lich, on T:53515 13:34 [hdf-us] [nh361] Luxidream (Val Dwa Fem Law) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:5791 13:34 !who 13:34 PavelB: [hdf-us] hothraxxa [spl] munterplant [nh361] hypnotist [nh361] Luxidream [nh361] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] Grasshopper [nh361] 13:35 [hdf-us] [nh361] Luxidream (Val Dwa Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a master mind flayer, on T:5952 13:37 [hdf-us] [nh361] Luxidream (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:6241 13:41 [hdf-us] [nh361] Luxidream (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:6618 13:43 [hdf-us] [nh361] Luxidream (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed greased ring of conflict", on T:6687 13:44 [hdf-us] [nh361] Luxidream (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed greased scrolls of genocide", on T:6700 13:44 [hdf-us] [nh361] Luxidream (Val Dwa Fem Law) performed her first genocide (class L), on T:6701 13:44 [hdf-us] [nh361] Luxidream (Val Dwa Fem Law) genocided class ;, on T:6702 13:44 [hdf-us] [nh361] Luxidream (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed greased cloak of magic resistance", on T:6703 13:44 <@rikersan> why not wish for +3 or something? 13:44 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:54289 13:44 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:54290 13:45 [hdf-us] [nh361] Luxidream (Val Dwa Fem Law), 55074 points, T:6805, caught herself in her own ball of lightning 13:45 thought that was my key 13:45 also I forgot 13:45 <@rikersan> rip luxi 13:46 <@Tone> Yikes :/ 13:49 !tell k2 thanks for the recovery, but it hangs whenever i start killing the leprechauns. we need antigulp 13:49 hothraxxa: Message from K2 at 2018-07-30 08:22 EDT: game recovered 13:49 Will do, hothraxxa! 13:50 ok 13:50 K2: Message from hothraxxa at 2018-07-30 13:49 EDT: thanks for the recovery, but it hangs whenever i start killing the leprechauns. we need antigulp 13:50 there wasnt any kind of crash dump or anything in paniclog either 13:50 !tell antigulp splicehack hangs whenever i start killing leprechauns in the hall on dlvl 22, same level as portal to the black market 13:50 Will do, hothraxxa! 13:51 i'm looking at a frozen screen 13:51 i saved right before i started the slaughter 13:52 i'm not sure but i think it freezes on the sixth kill, doesn't matter which ones 13:53 k2: is it in a loop? 13:54 <[Demo]> im angry at fat32 for being so dumb 13:54 dude you'll be 33 eventually 13:54 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:54601 13:56 <[Demo]> 5 images probably lost cause of it 13:56 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 13:56 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) killed the high priestess of Mercury, on T:54621 13:56 <[Demo]> photos of unknown importance 13:59 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Law), 1742105 points, T:54644, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/h/hypnotist/nh361/dumplog/1532639345.nh361.txt 13:59 !streak hypnotist 13:59 nooodle: [hdf-us] hypnotist Max[nh361]: 6 (2018-05-21 - 2018-06-03). Current[nh361]: 4 (since 2018-07-16). 14:01 they should make it so that you have a chance to catch a potion that's thrown at you, maybe based on your dex 14:01 would make ring of free action less of a complete necessity on astral 14:02 as it is, astral without free action is just... bonkers 14:08 <[Demo]> yeah 14:10 or maybe an item called a catcher's mitt that catches thrown potions 100% of the time 14:10 congratulations nooodle! another victory for the nymphets! ♥ 14:10 <[Demo]> dnh has lightsaber forms that if high enough give you a 100% chance to burn all incoming projectiles with your lightsaber 14:11 <@rikersan> that includes potions? 14:11 <@rikersan> til 14:11 <[Demo]> how wouldnt it? 14:11 <[Demo]> the same code is used afaik 14:11 thank you larientelrunya <3 14:12 <@rikersan> what's the most broken binder spirit right now demo? 14:12 <[Demo]> enki 14:12 <@rikersan> still? ok 14:12 <[Demo]> pretty sure astral skip isnt fixed in devel 14:12 <[Demo]> oh hey also fun tip 14:13 <[Demo]> if you take out illurien with ahazu abduction you only have to kill her once 14:14 <@rikersan> huh 14:14 <@rikersan> I've never used ahazu 14:14 <@rikersan> since i hate hunger 14:14 <[Demo]> if she is killed with mongone her timer isnt set 14:14 <[Demo]> also same with garland and his chaos releasing 14:15 <[Demo]> which isnt beneficial in his case 14:15 <@rikersan> oh dang 14:15 <@rikersan> yeah I figured 14:15 <[Demo]> you also dont get livelogs for liveloggable kills 14:16 <[Demo]> asmo and verier dont get their mega demon on death spam 14:17 <@rikersan> ooh I like that 14:17 <[Demo]> oh wow, if you mongone axus you dont get the whole gang pissed off at you 14:17 <@rikersan> do artifacts drop? 14:17 k2: splicehack just got weird on me 14:17 <[Demo]> i think so not sure 14:18 how so 14:18 when i left my computer it was still hung in the lep hall 14:19 when i came back i was at the dgl prompt so i started splicehack 14:19 it gave me a new game in which i am an angelic archeologist 14:19 huh 14:19 no chance to selct a role or anything 14:19 ok one sec 14:19 oh 14:19 check version 14:19 i bet it put you on 0.5.1 14:19 aha 14:19 i bet hang on 14:20 yeah i need to recover your game again i see the game files 14:20 can you just delete this one? 14:20 the 0.5.1 one? 14:20 yeah 14:21 well i quit it 14:21 yup just save it and exit out of dgl altogether for now 14:21 that's a blot on my record 14:21 ok 14:21 should have waited for me to type 14:21 ;) 14:21 i know 14:21 so wait one 14:21 i am recovering your original game 14:21 ok 14:22 game receovered 14:22 it seems i can proceed as long as i leae the leprechauns alone 14:22 thanks 14:22 want to see what happens? 14:22 yeah theres nothing in paniclog or a core dump 14:22 wait and show antigulp 14:22 * K2 is still at work 14:22 <[Demo]> the leprechauns tricked u 14:23 ok. i saved after two leprechauns were dead. i think it will hang on the sixth kill 14:24 !tell AntiGulp please link up with hothraxxa when you have time, he has some very weird behavior occuring with lepruchans in 0.5.0, causes game to stop working. i can recover it, but theres no core dump nor anything in paniclog 14:24 Will do, K2! 14:24 <[Demo]> just an infinite loop lol 14:24 and he's good about reading irclog 14:24 it's totally a feature, he made leprechauns hang the game on purpose. You have to fight them from the bottom right. :P (just kidding! I don't know the cause or cure for those bugs) 14:24 <@luxidream> !tell AntiGulp you can be a lawful infernal priest, wtf? 14:24 Will do, @luxidream! 14:24 ok back to work 14:25 <[Demo]> there are good demons and bad demons 14:25 work work 14:37 good demons on both sides, demo. both sides 14:42 -!- stenno_ has quit [Changing host] 14:42 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 14:42 -!- stenno_ is now known as stenno 14:46 -!- a_boudelia has joined #hardfought 14:48 -!- Muad has joined #hardfought 14:50 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 15:06 -!- MisteryMyra has joined #hardfought 15:09 isn't the D&D breakdown of fiends/infernals that devils are lawful evil, daemons neutral, demons chaotic? 15:10 <@rikersan> idk about daemons but yes to the other 2 15:10 [hdf-us] [spl] Luxidream (Pir Inf Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:6704 15:10 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:10 in a nutshell yes aosdict 15:10 well there is probably some name for neutral evil fiends 15:10 isn't "daemon" just a different spelling of "demon"? 15:10 or rather, "Dämon" = the German translation of demon? 15:10 aosdict: What edition has daemons in it? 15:10 etymologically, probably. ask jonadab to be sure 15:11 cool, grass now works in level maps 15:11 let's revamp some monk quest 15:13 Neither 3rd, 4th, and 5th edition have no such thing as a "Daemon" in any official material. 15:13 ok, well I was probably wrong. But there probably is some name for a neutral evil fiend. 15:13 <@rikersan> forgotten realms 15:14 <@rikersan> also called yugoloth 15:14 Oh yeah! 15:14 Yugoloth *is* the more common name 15:15 -!- MisteryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:15 <@rikersan> lol 15:15 <@rikersan> demo: why is shadowlock so garbage smfh 15:16 <@rikersan> it's like avg 20 damage to you per hit 15:18 <@rikersan> Demo: yes it does destroy artifacts (ahazu abduct) 15:27 <@rikersan> !tell Chris_ANG abduction probably should just drop any artifacts on the ground. it doesn't destroy unique items (amulet) or undestroyable artifacts (pen, key, annulus) but it does nuke pretty much anything else afaict 15:27 Will do, @rikersan! 15:30 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Kni Hum Fem Law) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:6427 15:32 aosdict: apparently "daemon" is medieval Latin, ultimately from Greek "δαίμων". 15:32 jonadab: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-07-30 04:00 EDT: https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/930gfh/ive_noticed_roguelikes_becoming_more_grindy_in/ (specifically my post about fourk unlockables, and the follow-up posts) 15:33 <@rikersan> !tell Chris_ANG also, in addition to abduction's other bugged things, it prevents you from summoning them with crystal memories (cosmos's pet unique thingy) 15:33 Will do, @rikersan! 15:33 <@rikersan> cc demo ^ 15:33 wut that original reddit post and its creator were deleted??? or is that kind of a shadowban because it got downvoted too much? 15:34 <@rikersan> coudl have been removed from teh subreddit 15:34 <@rikersan> by a mod 15:34 or deleted by the original author? 15:34 -!- tacco| has joined #hardfought 15:34 well it says that the author is also deleted, i.e. it says "deleted" where it used to show the author's name 15:35 and the thread is no longer visible on the subreddit either 15:35 is the roguelikes subreddit's hatred of anything vaguely roguelite real? 15:36 Step 1: create new reddit account. Step 2: start thread about slex. Step 3: wait for Amy to post in thread. Step 4: delete thread and user account. Woot! 15:36 jonadab: what's the use of that? just to annoy me? :P 15:37 aosdict: I'm not a fan of reddit in general but really it seems fair enough if the roguelikes subreddit doesn't want to talk about games that aren't roguelikes 15:38 there's a /r/nethack thread about rebinding pickup to another key and there are two answers saying you can't do it... but in 3.6.1, can't you rebind keys? 15:38 aosdict: hatred is a strong term; but they consistently explain what a roguelike actually is and that those games aren't, when confused people from Steam show up looking for "more great Rougelikes like Getting Over It" or whatever. 15:38 jonadab: I think anyone might find that exasperating after a while 15:39 aosdict: I believe so. 15:39 -!- MiseryMyra has joined #hardfought 15:39 steam seems to love putting "roguelike" tags on games just to make them more appealing 15:39 In mainstream use practically anything with permadeath or procedural content seems to be a "roguelike" these days 15:39 Pinkbeast: There seems to be a whole lot of gatekeeping, so what could have been a productive discussion turns into ten people saying "Ah, good sir, this is a community for true roguelikes, and what you want to discuss isn't one. Good day." 15:40 * Pinkbeast grumbles also it's roguelikelike not roguelite 15:40 Pinkbeast: On Steam I think it basically means "indie game". 15:40 except usually not as politely as that 15:40 aosdict: *shurg* again, I think it's fair enough if they don't want to have that productive discussion there 15:41 Well, there's not even a consensus on what defines a roguelike. 15:41 Oh, indeed, but I think the presence of grey areas doesn't mean there aren't things that clearly are outside the grey area 15:41 So what might be off-topic for you might be on-topic for me because I regard $game as a roguelike 15:41 I wonder how one would classify Crypt of the Necrodancer 15:41 PavelB: Roguelikelike 15:42 But, *why* not Roguelike? 15:42 PavelB: I'd put it in the "rhythm games" genre 15:42 -!- MisteryMyra has joined #hardfought 15:42 aosdict: /r/roguelikes is older than that confusion and is not interested in the newer definitions really. (This is very much in contrast to /r/roguelikedev, which pretty much ignores anything that's _actually_ roguelike.) 15:42 and describe it as containing roguelike elements 15:42 I've seen Diablo called a roguelike occasionally... 15:42 Pinkbeast: "rhythm game" 15:42 Err, PavelB I mean. 15:43 Hit tab complete one key too soon. 15:43 But why isn't it roguelike? 15:43 PavelB: Because it isn't in any way similar to roguelikes? 15:43 <@Tone> I've learned that most people that aren't really into roguelikes or lites don't even know what a rogue-lite is 15:43 It isn't like Rogue at all? 15:43 Isn't it? 15:43 Timing being important is widely considered to be enough for "not a roguelike" 15:43 [hdf-us] [spl] Luxidream (Pir Inf Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a grid bug, on T:14987 15:44 <@Tone> And assume either is a roguelike 15:44 You can disable the timning 15:44 *timing 15:44 And just progress whenever you hit a key 15:44 <@rikersan> !tell Chris_ANG annointing of balam can instakill literally anythign with a head and no thick skin. that seems like an easy demon lord killer to me (since none of them are thick-skinned, not even demo) 15:44 Will do, @rikersan! 15:44 <@rikersan> cc demo 15:44 PavelB: That's not really the aim of the game, though, just as NH doesn't stop beng a roguelike because you _can_ use explore mode and not die 15:45 PavelB: so the game becomes turn-based? 15:45 PavelB: Does it run in a terminal? Does it have randomized item appearances? Is it open-source? 15:45 and here we hit gray areas: I don't factor in any of the things jonadab mentioned for whether I consider a game to be a roguelike 15:45 Does the player character get stronger as the game goes on, gaining levels and hitpoints and such, and facing higher challenges? 15:45 Why are those requirements. Especially the first one, if I run NH with tiles, does it stop being a roguelike? 15:45 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:46 Yeah, you get stronger over time. 15:46 [hdf-us] [spl] Luxidream (Pir Inf Mal Cha) polymorphed his first object, on T:15173 15:47 my personal definition of a roguelike consists of 1) procedural generation 15:47 erm 15:47 PavelB: Why are there requirements for being a platformer? If I say that NetHack Fourk is a platformer, and challenge you to give me any reasons why it's not, and then discount any reason you name with "Why should that be a requirement? Why are there requirements?", am I being even remotely reasonable? 15:47 2) permadeath and 3) turn based gameplay 15:47 on 4chan, they're posting this thing a lot: http://is2.4chan.org/v/1532572506081.png 15:48 tacking on a requirement like the game must be open-source is silly 15:48 that doesn't affect the game at all 15:48 CotN does have those 3. 15:48 aosdict: That was one of the original criteria discussed when the term "roguelike" was coined. 15:48 Rogue wasn't open source though 15:48 That only happened later 15:49 [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Ran Hum Fem Neu), 40364 points, T:22662, killed by an energy vortex 15:49 For once I think 4chan's not too far off 15:50 aosdict: I generally agree with that definition 15:50 POWDER's got no terminal display but I wouldn't argue it's not a roguelike 15:50 That's a super vague condition on that chart 15:50 I could say D&D resembles rogue, would that be so incorrect? 15:50 forgive me for not wanting to open an image from 4chan 15:50 The image is completely sfw, you're fine 15:50 PavelB: it'd be rogue resembles d&d 15:50 aosdict: This one is SFW and I could launder it through another webserver if you like 15:51 But, of course, it's ultimately pretty subjective, and I generally don't believe in hard rules for defining things like that 15:51 d&d existed before personal home computers were mainstream 15:51 way way before 15:51 aosdict: Civilization has procedural generation, permadeath if you don't do save/reload, and turn-based gameplay. 15:51 Pinkbeast: if you would, imgur mirror? I don't particularly want my ISP to see requests to 4chan.org either. 15:51 But what I'm saying is that by that chart I could say D&D is a roguelike 15:51 jonadab: turn-based gameplay? wut? 15:51 -!- MisteryMyra is now known as MiseryMyra 15:51 What MisteryMyra said. These Berlin Interpretation style rules don't work because it is more a matter of gut feel than anything else 15:51 aosdict: Absolutely. 15:51 aosdict: One moment 15:52 <@Tone> I can post that image through the power of discord if you'd like 15:52 aosdict: Granted, a turn in Civilization are much longer and involve way more keypresses than a turn in NetHack. 15:52 PavelB: Yes, that chart assumes one doesn't need to rule out all absurd cases, you are assumed not to need to know if a printout of a game of Rogue is a "roguelike" even though it resembles rogue 15:52 *is 15:52 aosdict: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/FtrDMeGu/image.png 15:52 But it's still clearly turn-based. 15:53 http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/temp/foo.png tho' this may be moot 15:53 Roguelikes are also often somewhat tactical in nature 15:53 Pinkbeast: ಠ_ಠ 15:53 Also that image does talk about "role-playing video games" which is nonsense, videogames aren't roleplaying games grumble 15:54 I agree with MiseryMyra as well; the problem is that there are a lot of people will just shut down a discussion because you're calling something a roguelike and they focus on their disagreement with that instead. 15:54 MiseryMyra: I think that's the *least* useful condition for determining Roguelike-ness yet 15:54 <@Tone> Also wouldn't the open source requirement push adom out of the roguelike category, or is adom technically open source? 15:54 * MiseryMyra shrugs 15:54 Tone: Even if it is, it didn't use to be - ditto DoomRL, DF adventurer mode, etc 15:55 jonadab: Saying geopolitics is turn based isn't really the same thing as saying life is turn based. Also, life isn't, you know, a game. 15:55 @Tone ADOM falls afowl of _so many_ aspects of the original definition. 15:55 I wouldn't say it's a defining property, but a lot of roguelikes do have that property to them 15:55 Every game ever considers itself "Tactical" 15:55 I'd call it a common but not necessary characteristic. 15:55 aosdict: Civilization is a specific videogame. With multiple sequels. There's even an open-source clone of it called Freeciv. 15:55 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 15:55 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 15:56 PavelB: This does not preclude us, as players of games, from forming an opinion on which ones are 15:56 Not a whole of roguelikes use, say, Final Fantasy style combat 15:56 jonadab: But the game Civilization is not real life. 15:56 s/whole/whole lot 15:56 MiseryMyra: Mind you Angband and DCSS have Final Fantasy combat style shopping :-) 15:57 The existence of games based on real life isn't an argument that real life has properties of a game. 15:57 s/Final Fantasy combat style/menu-based/ 15:57 Joking aside, combat happening in a special isolated cage match would to me weigh very heavily against roguelikeness 15:57 PavelB: I meant what I wrote and require no corrections from you, thanks. 15:58 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:58 By my definition, a game need not have combat in order to be a roguelike, and I'm pretty sure some no-combat 7DRLs have been made 15:58 Like, I'm not saying roguelikes need to be that way, but I think it's important to keep in mind that a lot of things have common characteristics that people associate with them even if it's not a defining feature 15:58 aosdict: I would actually be super intrested if you can name any 15:58 aosdict: Jeff Lait's done a few. What I'm saying is if there _is_ combat and it happens in a special isolated void, it's probably not a roguelike. 15:59 Like, apples are characteristically red even though there are exceptions 15:59 Lait: Fatherhood has no combat, the Smith's Hand one, maybe some others 16:00 Pinkbeast: Yes, I would agree that a random game like that is _probably_ not one, but one could construct a roguelike that does do combat like that. 16:00 aosdict: My feeling that objective rules only go so far means I don't disagree, maybe one could, indeed 16:00 Heck, I could make a Pokemon mod that procedurally generates most of the world and has permadeath but keeps the combat system intact, and that could be called a roguelike. 16:01 <[Demo]> thats what they should have done for mystery dungeon lol 16:01 Mostly intact, presumably, since the Pokemen would have to be able to kill you somehow 16:02 Just swap out "whiting out" for permadeath and starting the game over. 16:02 Nuzlockes are roguelikes, obviously 16:02 Ah, I didn't know they could (effectively) kill you anyway, ahem. :-/ 16:03 dunno how it is in later generations, the last I played was ruby/sapphire 16:03 but if all your pokemon go down then you get sent back to a save point 16:03 But, yeah, I think it makes sense for definitions like this to be guidelines rather than rules 16:03 I think I only played it when it was just Pokemon and not for very long 16:04 Some people will disagree on things, but that's unavoidable 16:04 MiseryMyra: The tricky bit is when you see a game on steam and say "what? why on earth did they tag this as a roguelike?" 16:04 aosdict: Even given that for Steam purposes the word means not a lot? Honest question, I don't use Steam. 16:05 [hdf-us] [spl] Luxidream (Pir Inf Mal Cha) destroyed Blackbeard's Ghost, on T:16674 16:05 doesn't have to be steam necessarily 16:05 I don't use it either 16:06 I mean, the real answer is that tagging things like that gets it some attention 16:06 rewording: The tricky bit is when you see a game that's being labeled a roguelike and say "what? why on earth did they tag this as a roguelike?" 16:06 I suppose I feel now the mainstream use of the word is so vague that Pacman is probably a "roguelike" 16:07 It's less "I fundamentally believe this is a roguelike" and more "yeah, it has permadeath or something. I can get away with calling it a roguelike" 16:07 <@luxidream> !tell AntiGulp why did you not reduce the weight of the treasury of proteus 16:07 Will do, @luxidream! 16:07 <@luxidream> !tell AntiGulp I'm fucking dying please help 16:07 Will do, @luxidream! 16:08 [hdf-us] [spl] Luxidream (Pir Inf Mal Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:16695 16:08 [hdf-us] [spl] Luxidream (Pir Inf Mal Cha), 3481842 points, T:16674, crushed by the Treasury of Proteus 16:08 I can't actually carry it out of this room 16:09 takes me to strained just trying to lift it 16:09 <[Demo]> wait crushed by it? 16:09 Some people are inclined to call games with some roguelike elements "roguelites" 16:09 <[Demo]> how does it do that? 16:09 joke 16:09 * Pinkbeast mutters "roguelikelike" again 16:09 <[Demo]> ah dammit damn bot 16:09 <[Demo]> lol 16:09 <[Demo]> does he have it do the polying? 16:09 <[Demo]> does he have it do the king of the hill effect 16:09 let's see 16:09 I 16:10 I'm not getting very much use out of it given it's impossible for me to carry around 16:10 [hdf-us] [nh361] dgoddard (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 483 points, T:1226, killed by a crossbow bolt 16:10 wait, it just weighs 500 when it's empty 16:11 when I put something inside it's a reasonable weight now 16:11 ?? 16:11 Like, The Binding of Isaac definitely isn't a roguelike in the usual sense, but I understand why people make the comparison 16:11 !tell AntiGulp empty treasury of proteus weighs the same as a normal chest 16:11 Will do, Luxidream! 16:11 <[Demo]> does it poly items inside of it? 16:12 yeah that works 16:12 <[Demo]> does it do king of the hill? 16:12 <[Demo]> are damned pirates and skeleton pirates frequently spawning when you are carrying it? 16:13 let me get out of the quest first 16:13 MiseryMyra: Or indeed Diablo ;-) 16:13 For sure 16:13 <[Demo]> i expect it doesnt 16:13 <[Demo]> and if so im gonna insult splice by saying it is slexing it 16:14 The original Diablo is strangely close to the idea of a traditional roguelike even though it doesn't have most of the usual "defining features" 16:15 Strangely> well, surely Blizzard said "let's look at NetHack and try to make a bushel of money" 16:15 Diablo II and beyond, not quite so much 16:16 Someone once gave me a spiel about how one of Diablo and Diablo II is kind of NetHack and the other is kind of Angband, but I forget a) which way around and b) why so... er 16:16 [hdf-us] [nh361] dgoddard (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Thoth, on T:2130 16:19 I'm getting a lot of skeletal pirate spawns 16:19 so yes 16:19 Diablo has you exploring some fantasy dungeon with procedurally generated floors finding magic loot that needs to be identified that goes deeper and deeper with the occasional branch until you enter Hell and kill some powerful wizard who worships Satan 16:23 [hdf-us] [nh361] dgoddard (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 2589 points, T:3986, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted water moccasin 16:26 What happens next is different, but that's awfully familiar, if you ask me 16:26 [hdf-us] [spl] Luxidream (Pir Inf Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (disenchanter), on T:20212 16:27 <@rikersan> lol did antigulp take chris's pirate patch 16:28 [hdf-us] [nh361] dgoddard (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 648 points, T:1355, killed by a cadaver 16:29 <[Demo]> partially 16:29 <[Demo]> i think he slexed it 16:29 <[Demo]> which is where he didnt take the hard parts 16:29 <@rikersan> a 16:30 <@rikersan> *ah 16:30 <@rikersan> rip 16:30 what's the hard part? 16:30 <@rikersan> so no arti gens? 16:30 I don't get any artifacts from sacrificing 16:30 <@rikersan> no gifts except the first one, artifacts spawn at 5x rate (4x?) for pirates 16:30 <@rikersan> the first gift is the marauder's map 16:30 yeah, all that's in here 16:30 <@rikersan> hm ok 16:32 [hdf-us] [nh361] dgoddard (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 636 points, T:1517, killed by an imp 16:34 [hdf-us] [spl] Luxidream (Pir Inf Mal Cha) made his first wish - "cursed fixed greased magic marker named ACTION FELT-TIP MARKER", on T:20697 16:35 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:35 <[Demo]> the hard part is probably koth 16:35 <[Demo]> i doubt he added loth 16:35 <[Demo]> koth 16:37 <@rikersan> luxidream: it weighs 500 you say? 16:37 <@rikersan> that's a bug 16:38 <@rikersan> it should only weigh 80 and it does in dnh 16:38 yeah the weight is normal once I put something in 16:38 <@rikersan> you sure it's 500? 16:38 <@rikersan> 80 is still heavy 16:39 @rikersan I went immediately to strained picking it up the first time 16:39 <@rikersan> oh dang ok then 16:40 <@rikersan> so uh yeah tha'ts a bug 16:40 when I put in a tin I became burdened 16:40