00:03 <aosdict> I rarely have evil patch ideas. Check it out, I'd love feedback.
00:04 <aosdict> I did this for all 13 quests.
00:04 <rld> <@IceBox> how do i find it
00:07 <aosdict> https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Phol_ende_wodan/Quest_level_redesign
00:14 <rld> <@IceBox> cool i'll check it out for the quests i've done
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01:00 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Mon Hum Fem Cha) made her first wish - "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:2877
01:00 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Mon Hum Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased rustproof +2 gauntlets of power", on T:2877
01:01 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Mon Hum Fem Cha) made her first artifact wish - "blessed master key of thievery", on T:2884
01:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Mon Hum Fem Cha) wished for "blessed ring of slow digestion", on T:2885
01:04 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Mon Hum Fem Cha) wished for "blessed amulet of reflection", on T:2886
01:06 <aosdict> YANI: watchmen #chatted to on the Tourist quest say special Ankh-Morpork City Watch themed lines.
01:06 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Mon Hum Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased rustproof +2 helm of brilliance", on T:3210
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02:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Mon Hum Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:9616
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02:54 <bouquet> !tell aosdict read your quest redesign and I give it a thumbs up.  Need some clarification on the rogue boss level.  This doesn't parse in my mind "...the no-teleport restriction is lifted, but the Master Assassin's entire area is now a teleport region, so you cannot fall into it or teleport in or out of it."
02:54 <Beholder> Will do, bouquet!
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04:32 <Grassy> "You feel less wobbly now.  Everything looks SO boring now. This makes you feel great!"
04:33 <Grassy> Hmmm, normally that happens the other way around...
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07:04 <Tangles> !who
07:04 <Beholder> Tangles: [hdf-us] arnibald [un] | [hdf-eu] No current players | [hdf-au] No current players
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07:39 <Tangles> !tell k2 pushed an update to beholder. !whereis now only reports active games, and works on multiple versions (if you put all the paths in).
07:39 <Beholder> Will do, Tangles!
07:51 <Tangles> @d?kraken fiend of water
07:51 <Tangles> @d?jackal
07:51 <Tangles> hmm that's broken again
08:03 <Grassy> ouch
08:35 <Tangles> apparently I'm retriever-farming on this level.
08:35 <K2> morning
08:35 <Beholder> K2: Message from Tangles at 2018-07-29 07:39 EDT: pushed an update to beholder. !whereis now only reports active games, and works on multiple versions (if you put all the paths in).
08:35 <Tangles> There was 1, now there's 15
08:36 <K2> o/
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08:36 <Tangles> hi K2
08:37 <K2> hows it going?
08:37 <introsp3ctive> good morning
08:37 <Tangles> this dnethack game is a bit ordianry tbh
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08:37 <K2> ah
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08:37 <K2> i'm still having crappy luck w/ splicehack ;)
08:38 <K2> !lastgame k2
08:38 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/splicehack/dumplog/1532814549.splice.txt | [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/splicehack/dumplog/1532561200.splice.txt | [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/splicehack/dumplog/1532561891.splice.txt
08:38 <K2> whirling fucking spheres ;)
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08:44 <Tangles> so the more retrievers I attacked, the more there were. I got abducted by one to an awkward spot on the map, so I decided to read a scroll of tele (unknown BUC, without teleport control). Straight back to my stash level.
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08:49 <K2> heh
08:50 <K2> should i update beholder or wait until the pinobot monster lookup is working again?
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08:57 <Tangles> K2: No reason not to update.
08:57 <K2> ok
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09:04 <Tangles> hmm it might the MA_DEMON flag on the retriever that causes it to create more.
09:05 <K2> beholder updated across all 3 servers
09:05 <K2> !whereis k2
09:05 <Beholder> K2: k2 is not playing.
09:06 <K2> !whereis k2
09:06 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-us] k2 [spl]: (Wiz Inf Mal Cha) T:1 The Dungeons of Doom level: 1
09:10 <Tangles> !whereis tangles
09:10 <Beholder> Tangles: [hdf-au] Tangles [dnh]: (Pir Inc Mal Neu) T:36153 The Dungeons of Doom level: 6
09:16 <K2> i'm trying to motivate myself to clean
09:16 <K2> its not working
09:27 <Tangles> heh
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09:37 <oh6> the best motivation for a task is performing the task, alas
09:37 <oh6> for me anyway
09:38 <aosdict> FIQ: I attempted to reconcile the merge conflicts between getobj patch and PatR's sortloot changes, and I have it building, but I'm sort of expecting everything to blow up spectacularly.
09:38 <Beholder> aosdict: Message from bouquet at 2018-07-29 02:54 EDT: read your quest redesign and I give it a thumbs up.  Need some clarification on the rogue boss level.  This doesn't parse in my mind "...the no-teleport restriction is lifted, but the Master Assassin's entire area is now a teleport region, so you cannot fall into it or teleport in or out of it."
09:46 <aosdict> bouquet: done
09:46 <aosdict> and thanks for reading
09:47 <aosdict> Hrogart: well the good news is I appear to have successfully merged vanilla and its sortloot fixes, the bad news is that this doesn't silver-bullet-fix the infinite loop.
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10:07 <Hrogart> aosdict: i will keep the force_invmenu disabled as i don't think that it will have any effect for me while playing with the curses interface. so it's fine for me.-
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10:08 <Hrogart> but thanks for following up :)
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10:10 <[Demo]> retrievers used to be insanely difficult
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10:31 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Ran Hum Fem Neu), 12275 points, T:9268, killed by a death ray, while sleeping
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10:44 <aosdict> Hrogart: it's currently broken so that somehow with force_invmenu on, attempting to do *anything* with getobj just gives a "Never mind."
10:45 <aosdict> FIQ: I'd really like to talk about how your getobj works because I'm having a hard time understanding what should happen with force_invmenu..
11:22 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Ran Hum Fem Neu) eschewed atheism, by dropping a spherical amulet on an altar, on T:3280
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12:27 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh13d] metzfan (Nin Mal), 382 points, T:1087, orc
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13:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] samiam (Sam Hum Mal Law) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:7799
13:44 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] TLar (Pri Elf Fem Cha) made her first wish - "blessed spellbook of identify", on T:12073
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14:51 <aosdict> bouquet: if you liked reading the text only quest proposal you might be interested in the specific level layouts I've created following those plans.
14:51 <aosdict> This got me interested enough to tackle another one (Priest locate), which I'll upload shortly.
14:52 <[Demo]> wait are you gonna have good quests to steal?
14:54 <aosdict> The eventual plan is to make all the quests good, yes.
14:55 <[Demo]> priest quest is definitely bad
14:55 <K2> priest quest is awesome
14:55 <K2> so much loot
14:55 <[Demo]> exactly :P
14:56 <aosdict> well I'm planning to cut much of the loot out of the locate level and move it to the goal level. 
14:56 <K2> makes sense
14:56 <aosdict> as in, move the massive graveyard
14:56 <[Demo]> which came first, monk or priest?
14:56 <K2> move all the undead down there too
14:56 <aosdict> pretty sure monk came first
14:56 <aosdict> er priest
14:56 <aosdict> not monk
14:56 <[Demo]> nethack priest sucks
14:57 <[Demo]> like what flavor priest is it
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14:57 <aosdict> the monk quest is such a thinly-veiled reskin of the priest quest, it's not even funny
14:57 <[Demo]> yeah
14:58 <[Demo]> its like its a placeholder
14:58 <[Demo]> see this is one of my fundamental issues with the devteam
14:58 <aosdict> I should probably tackle that one first... buuuut on the other hand I've already redesigned two of its three levels
14:58 <aosdict> so I did tackle it first
14:58 <[Demo]> they dont seem to like to address shit like that, stuff  that clearly should be
14:59 <[Demo]> i think im gonna maybe work towards some sort of priest very minor overhaul in ndnh
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15:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] TLar (Pri Elf Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:13624
15:04 <[Demo]> think I'm gonna try to reflavor it as more evangelical
15:12 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] Cropper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:12331
15:12 <[Demo]> whoa could do different quests based on alignment
15:12 <K2> ^ that
15:12 <aosdict> new level is uploaded
15:14 <[Demo]> so i could do a lawful evil old school catholic style law quest, some sort of satan fueled satan thingy for chaotics, and some weird something i have yet to discover something for neutrals
15:19 <aosdict> yeah but then you have to *make* 3 quests. Lot of work.
15:19 <[Demo]> yeah guess what im not a bitch also I only need to make two
15:19 <[Demo]> lol
15:19 <[Demo]> cause if i take shortcuts and reuse the current as neutral...
15:20 <[Demo]> and guess what, chris already has a couple of unused unfinished mastery artifacts for priests that are unimplemented and i can canabalize as quest artifacts :P
15:27 <oh6> how's the monk quest a reskin of the priest quest?
15:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] k2 (Wiz Inf Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:8091
15:38 <rld> <@rikersan> iirc the home and goal levels are the same, as is the filler (all standard room and corridors)
15:38 <rld> <@rikersan> Demo: do you know how things like tobiume's "Allows moving 3x as fast, stealth, invisibility for multi-tile movements" work?
15:39 <rld> <@rikersan> or sode's "Allows moving 4x as fast for multi-tile movements"
15:43 <[Demo]> probably some allmain.c or hack.c special casing
15:43 <rld> <@rikersan> hm ok
15:49 <aosdict> oh6: also the quest text is nearly identical
15:49 <aosdict> just replace Master Kaen for Nalzok, etc
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15:55 <rld> <@luxidream> @rikersan kicking your horse into gallop does the same thing
15:55 <rld> <@rikersan> decrease movement points?
15:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] k2 (Wiz Inf Mal Cha), 23974 points, T:11328, killed by an invisible stalker, while sleeping
15:56 <rld> <@luxidream> Yes, but only for multi-tile movements
15:56 <rld> <@luxidream> Go, traveling, etc
15:56 <rld> <@rikersan> hm ok
15:59 <[Demo]> good place to start then
15:59 <oh6> yeah, the quest text is kind of a lost cause though - unless it gave information that was actually relevant from game to game, there's no reason to read it at all
16:00 <rld> <@rikersan> and you can easily accidentally skip it
16:00 <[Demo]> sometimes theres a cool story for some roles?
16:01 <oh6> for new players, sure - I vividly remember encountering the Valkyrie quest when I didn't know about quests at all
16:01 <rld> <@rikersan> !tell Chris_ANG weapon shk doesn't want to ID my arti weapon. wut. (blade dancer's dagger as a saumrai, maybe the "silver kunai" bit messes with it?)
16:01 <Beholder> Will do, @rikersan!
16:03 <[Demo]> it thinks it is already identified
16:03 <rld> <@rikersan> ah
16:03 <[Demo]> are you getting basic or premier?
16:04 <[Demo]> premier for me in 3.15.1 he chuckles greedily but still ids
16:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] TLar (Pri Elf Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:15740
16:13 <rld> <@IceBox> does weapon erosion reduce the damage by one on a weapon or a weapon's damage dice? Basically is it: 1d6 -> 1d5 or 1d6-1
16:14 <rld> <@rikersan> demo: basic
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16:27 <[Demo]> wouldnt basic not do anything?
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16:28 <rld> <@luxidream> IceBox - each level of erosion is -1
16:29 <rld> <@IceBox> so dice stay the same, just subtracts one from damage roll
16:29 <rld> <@luxidream> Yes
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16:53 <hothraxxa> the splicehack scroll of knowledge is really cool and needs to be in all the other variants
16:53 <PavelB> What does it do?
16:54 <hothraxxa> it lets you learn the appearance of things, such as scroll of genocide or ring of conflict
16:54 <[Demo]> uses wish parser functionality that causes conflicts with wish related things
16:54 <hothraxxa> does it? 
16:55 <[Demo]> might be fixed now slightly?
16:55 <[Demo]> i think there are still some issues
16:56 <[Demo]> but it uses the same parsing function as the wish parser when entering object you wanna know about
16:56 <hothraxxa> no idea. i've used them in a couple of games and they're really good for the early game
16:56 <[Demo]> and those functions assume you are wishing and that causes problems because they do a lot more than just reading and interpreting a string to an object
16:56 <hothraxxa> eg in this game i leared scrolls of genocide and charging, and rings of free action and slow digestion
17:02 <aosdict> [Demo]: yes, we really need a function that does user typed string -> otyp with no side effects
17:03 <aosdict> xnh has... an attempt at one
17:03 <hothraxxa> what sort of side effects should i watch for?
17:04 <aosdict> I think the worst things in splice have been patched (e.g. breaking wishless conduct)
17:05 <hothraxxa> ok not an issue for me, not in this game anyway
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17:09 <[Demo]> the devteam should refactor the wishing code
17:09 <[Demo]> and if they dont we should reject them as the true devteam
17:10 <hothraxxa> The dwarf zombiecerastes claws the jabberwocksuccubus.  The dwarf zombiecerastes misses the jabberwocksuccubus.
17:10 <hothraxxa> no i am not hallucinating
17:11 <hothraxxa> The frost giantgrid bug squeezes the ettin zombierook.
17:11 <hothraxxa> The ooze dragongargoyle claws the kobold mummypurple dragon.  The ooze dragongargoyle swallows the kobold mummypurple dragon.
17:12 <[Demo]> oh cool they have goofier but at the same time less goofy names
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17:12 <[Demo]> i support these names
17:13 <hothraxxa> well the real issue is that their attacks are determined by whatever got smushed together
17:14 <hothraxxa> The giant ratsilver dragon bites the baluchitheriumogre lord.
17:14 <hothraxxa> *facepalm*
17:17 <hothraxxa> The dwarf zombiecerastes butts the baby shimmering dragonhundred handed one.
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17:25 <rld> <@luxidream> jabberwocksuccubus
17:25 <rld> <@luxidream> Sounds nasty
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17:29 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] hothraxxa (Hea Gno Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (class h), on T:25526
17:31 <hothraxxa> i assume no more dwarf zombiecerastes will show up
17:32 <hothraxxa> actually i don't care about a dwarf zombiecerastes. what i don't want to see is master mind flayerarch lich
17:33 <hothraxxa> these aberrant creatures seem a bad idea, if i'm honest
17:42 <oh6> well, they're a can of worms, at least
17:43 <oh6> like, dnethack seems to have zombie anything, which would seem to inflate the number of possible combinations wildly
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17:50 <[Demo]> zombie hedrow zombie
17:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] IceBox (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 5779 points, T:7324, killed by a yeti
18:14 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh13d] rustmonster (Pri Mal), 58 points, T:23, imp
18:16 <hothraxxa> "Hello, hothraxxa!  Welcome to Budereyri's mimic store!"
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19:06 <rld> <@rikersan> !tell Chris_ANG I tried to read the ward of a spellbook and the game segfaulted? wut? vamp binder, no spirits bound, dlvl and xplvl 1
19:06 <Beholder> Will do, @rikersan!
19:07 <[Demo]> already reported
19:07 <[Demo]> i can even point you to the commit
19:07 <rld> <@rikersan> oh really ok cool
19:07 <[Demo]> in dnethack its waiting for him in a memo
19:07 <rld> <@rikersan> commit?
19:07 <rld> <@rikersan> ah
19:07 <rld> <@rikersan> cuz it's not fixed in the latest v
19:07 <[Demo]> yes i found it shortly after he went awol
19:07 <rld> <@rikersan> kk
19:07 <[Demo]> when bringing over the oward change to ndnh and looking at his commit
19:08 <[Demo]> dont read spellbooks with wards you already know
19:08 <[Demo]> or itll crash
19:08 <[Demo]> in ndnh it works properly
19:09 <rld> <@rikersan> oh ok
19:09 <rld> <@rikersan> well
19:09 <rld> <@rikersan> tha'ts scary but alright
19:09 <[Demo]> not really
19:09 <[Demo]> autorecover is neat
19:09 <[Demo]> oh right its not on the version on the server yet is it
19:10 <[Demo]> wait i bet it exists in dnhslex then maybe unless i told amy about it and she fixed it which is possible cause that was a few weeks ago and ive already forgotten
19:10 <rld> <@rikersan> lol
19:11 <rld> <@rikersan> dumb idea of the day: ndnh convicts should start with ahazu's seal
19:11 <rld> <@rikersan> since you always need more hunger issues
19:11 <[Demo]> dammit she did
19:11 <[Demo]> which means i told her
19:11 <[Demo]> which means i cant abuse the shit out of it
19:11 <[Demo]> why do i do this to myself
19:12 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] paleocene (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 179 points, T:133, killed by a gnome lord
19:12 <[Demo]> i was gonna grab a healer and just spam wishes for fun
19:12 <rld> <@rikersan> wow sherperd's crooks are grappling hooks
19:12 <rld> <@rikersan> I love this
19:13 <[Demo]> arent they slightly broken or something?
19:13 <rld> <@rikersan> no clue
19:13 <[Demo]> i think theres some bug around them right now
19:13 <[Demo]> i have a bad habit of ignoring the new stuff in dnh
19:14 <rld> <@rikersan> ah
19:14 <rld> <@rikersan> are those statue rooms?
19:14 <rld> <@rikersan> are those traps?
19:14 <[Demo]> like kajra vajra (or whatever the hell the new lightsaber is called) is broken right now color wise and viewing its name segfaults
19:14 <rld> <@rikersan> yep
19:14 <rld> <@rikersan> oh huh
19:14 <rld> <@rikersan> lol
19:15 <[Demo]> which i get to ignore because it doesnt affect ndnh
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19:22 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] k2 (Wiz Inf Mal Cha) rejected atheism by offering a rothe corpse on an altar of Ptah, on T:3048
19:32 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] ptaff (Rog Hum Mal Cha) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:1969
19:33 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] k2 (Wiz Inf Mal Cha), 4754 points, T:3868, killed by a rope golem
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20:50 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] samiam (Sam Hum Mal Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:9549
20:50 <hothraxxa> k2: splicehack froze up on me again
21:00 <hothraxxa> !tell k2 splicehack froze on me again. i hung up and now it's prompting me for a new game :(
21:00 <Beholder> Will do, hothraxxa!
21:00 <K2> one sec
21:00 <Beholder> K2: Message from hothraxxa at 2018-07-29 21:00 EDT: splicehack froze on me again. i hung up and now it's prompting me for a new game :(
21:00 <hothraxxa> just found a wand of wishing in the black marker too
21:01 <K2> game recovered
21:01 <hothraxxa> ty. let's see if i lost anything
21:02 <hothraxxa> ah cool. i juts have to restart slaughtering the leprechauns
21:02 <hothraxxa> they're gonna finance the wand 
21:03 <hothraxxa> same only want 8325z
21:03 <K2> :)
21:03 <hothraxxa> sam only wants 8325z
21:03 <hothraxxa> there
21:03 <hothraxxa> might be able to afford the ring of free action too
21:03 <hothraxxa> and the magic marker
21:04 <hothraxxa> i already have three magic markers though
21:05 <aosdict> a wow costs *only* 8325 zorkmids?
21:05 <aosdict> is this the layout that's basically the whole level?
21:05 <aosdict> full of items?
21:05 <rld> <@luxidream> That’s cheap, it costs like 25k in dyna
21:05 <hothraxxa> yeah. i love it
21:06 * aosdict starts calculating the binomial distribution probabilities for wows in the black market
21:06 <hothraxxa> one pass through the black market usually identifies everything i need to know
21:10 <rld> <@rikersan> aosdict: don't forget artifacts
21:13 <aosdict> there are 1120 items... chance of a wand is 0.04, chance of a wand being a WoW is 0.005, so overall chance per item is 1/5000...
21:14 <rld> <@rikersan> around a 20% chance of a wand of wishing
21:14 <rld> <@rikersan> specifically, an 79.9% chance of no wands of wishing
21:14 <rld> <@rikersan> that's (4999/5000) ^ 1120
21:15 <aosdict> yeah
21:15 <aosdict> interestingly, about a 1% chance of two
21:16 <rld> <@rikersan> hm
21:16 <rld> <@rikersan> how about a magic lamp?
21:16 <hothraxxa> yeah i was expecting one but not there
21:17 <aosdict> magic lamps are 15/1000 probability
21:17 <hothraxxa> i have one anyway
21:18 <aosdict> TOOL_CLASS is 8/100 probability, so overall chance from one mkobj is 0.0012
21:18 <rld> <@rikersan> that's what, 6/5000?
21:19 <aosdict> which means the chance of no magic lamps at all is actually only about 25%
21:19 <rld> <@rikersan> ya
21:19 <rld> <@rikersan> tha'ts pretty good
21:19 <aosdict> this is one reason why I don't like the black market
21:19 <aosdict> it makes it *really* hard to balance loot anywhere else
21:19 <rld> <@rikersan> that's around a 4/5 chance of getting at least 1 wish from that
21:20 <hothraxxa> this wow is (0:2)
21:20 <rld> <@luxidream> Not every square in the black market is supposed to have an item though
21:20 <rld> <@rikersan> mimics?
21:20 <hothraxxa> no mimics
21:21 <rld> <@luxidream> No, there are random gaps. Play Un
21:21 <aosdict> @rikersan and if you computed the expected value of the amount of wishes, it would be pretty high considering wows give 5, 6, or 7
21:21 <rld> <@luxidream> If splice implemented it with an item on every square that’s ridiculous
21:21 <hothraxxa> it did not
21:21 * aosdict checks local copy of splice
21:21 <hothraxxa> not even close
21:23 <rld> <@luxidream> There’s also code in un/dyna that forces all WoWs to be 1:0, and all magic lamps also “have no oil” and don’t light or give wishes
21:23 <aosdict> oh yeah splice has that too
21:24 <aosdict> that makes me feel a bit better
21:24 <hothraxxa> it does? identify lies?
21:24 <aosdict> well I saw code that looked like it set spe to 0 and recharged to 1 for wands of wishing...
21:25 <hothraxxa> identify said 0:2
21:25 <aosdict> gah bad indentation
21:25 <aosdict> horrible terrible bad indentation
21:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Mon Hum Fem Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:14692
21:26 <bouquet> DAMNIT!
21:26 <aosdict> !tell AntiGulp please fix indentation in stock_blkmar, it hurts my eyes
21:26 <Beholder> Will do, aosdict!
21:26 <bouquet> can I get a 1 turn rewind?
21:26 <bouquet> is there such a thing?
21:26 <aosdict> sorry bouquet. trying to decide on a way to fix that
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21:27 <bouquet> thanks man.
21:28 <bouquet> Ok, well... if I manage to ascend this monk you can be my witness that I accidentally bonked a kobold with my pickaxe, but I'm totally a weaponless monk otherwise!
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21:32 <bouquet> aosdict: if I hit with a wielded spellbook it doesn't count as attacking with a weapon, right?
21:32 <aosdict> yes
21:32 <bouquet> or if I hit with another tool, like a bugle?
21:32 <aosdict> that is, yes correct it does not count
21:32 <bouquet> just pickaxes?
21:32 <aosdict> non-weapontools don't count either
21:32 <aosdict> it's not only pickaxes
21:32 <aosdict> anything defined as WEPTOOL
21:32 <bouquet> is there another weapon-tool besides pickaxes and tin opener?
21:33 <rld> <@rikersan> aosdict: alrighty, the black market in variants that don't mess with WoW charges has an expected wish value of 1.8 wishes
21:33 <aosdict> which is those, unihorns, and grappling hooks
21:33 <aosdict> tin openers aren't weapon-tools
21:33 <bouquet> Got it, thanks.
21:33 <rld> <@rikersan> 1.6 wishes if you don't count the one for charging scrolls (i.e. each wand has an effective -1 charge)
21:34 <aosdict> hooray, my guess that rikersan would crunch the numbers while I work on xnethack was correct
21:34 <rld> <@rikersan> lo
21:34 <rld> <@rikersan> to be accurate
21:34 <rld> <@rikersan> I speedmowed a lawn
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21:34 <aosdict> how did you know I was implemeting grass
21:34 <rld> <@rikersan> *and then did numbers
21:34 <rld> <@rikersan> oh shoot
21:34 <rld> <@rikersan> really?
21:34 <aosdict> yes
21:34 <rld> <@rikersan> huh cool
21:34 <aosdict> currently it does nothing except look pretty and green
21:34 <bouquet> I heard talk of some patch where you could give your pickaxe an unique name which would be flagged in the .nethackrc as a paranoid STOP action. Was that just hearsay?
21:35 <aosdict> bouquet: yes
21:35 <Luxidream> What’s the expected value with 1:0 wands and dud lamps
21:35 <Luxidream> 0.2?
21:35 <aosdict> Luxidream: then it's equal to the original binomial distribution, so yeah a little over 0.2
21:36 <aosdict> or under. don't remember
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21:37 <Luxidream> wonder what marker odds are
21:37 <Luxidream> I think black market is too strong in variants with rechargeable WoW
21:38 <Luxidream> it exists in un to balance out less wishes
21:38 <aosdict> ideally you would also consider the probabilities that the black market has what you wanted anyway and you don't even need to wish for it...
21:38 <hothraxxa> k2: frozen again :(
21:39 <rld> <@rikersan> luxidream: 0.8 for 1:0 lamps
21:39 <rld> <@rikersan> er, wands
21:40 <hothraxxa> i still need reflection but that's all. if i can get through this level without splicehack breaking 
21:40 <rld> <@rikersan> that's the expected value if any wish wand is 1:0 and magic lamps have unchanged wish probabilities (and you bless it first)
21:41 <aosdict> but luxi is saying that in unnethack magic lamps in the market don't give wishes at all
21:41 <aosdict> (presumably they still give infinite light?)
21:42 <hothraxxa> !tell k2 froze up again in the lep hall
21:42 <Beholder> Will do, hothraxxa!
21:42 <Luxidream> They are absolutely worthless
21:43 <Luxidream> don’t give light either
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21:43 <aosdict> jeez, why even let them generate then
21:43 <aosdict> does bhaak feed on players' despair?
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21:43 <hothraxxa> to fuck with you of course
21:43 <hothraxxa> like felt markers in grunt
21:43 <Luxidream> Magical tool polypiling
21:44 <rld> <@rikersan> wait, what?
21:44 <aosdict> you would have to be pretty flush with money to pay that much for a magic polyfodder tool
21:44 <hothraxxa> there ya go. i got one of my current magic markers when i was dip-testing potions
21:45 <Luxidream> obviously it’s there so people learn it the hard way
21:45 <Luxidream> like me
21:45 <Luxidream> Has anyone ever gotten a marker from nonmagical tools
21:46 <Luxidream> is that even possible
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21:53 <aosdict> it's possible but INCREDIBLY unlikely
21:55 <aosdict> weird. grass now works as a filler character but not in the map itself
22:03 <aosdict> I wonder if this is documented anywhere but it doesn't look like it so PSA: If you're sick of lev_comp spitting out "syntax error at line X" and giving no other info, be sure to define YYERROR_VERBOSE somewhere that lev_yacc.c can catch it
22:04 <rld> <@rikersan> what are magic lamps in un?
22:04 <rld> <@rikersan> non-magical wishes, right?
22:04 <aosdict> yes
22:05 <rld> <@rikersan> kk
22:05 <Luxidream> That’s pretty much 100% a shield of reflection in un
22:05 <Luxidream> There isn’t really a better wish
22:06 <hothraxxa> what about dyna?
22:07 <Luxidream> same thing
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22:36 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] ptaff (Rog Hum Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:21031
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22:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] ptaff (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 55529 points, T:22831, killed by a rothe, while frozen by a monster's gaze
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23:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] LoadedDice (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 621 points, T:1068, killed by a gnome, while fainted from lack of food
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