00:03 -!- bobbydurrett has joined #hardfought 00:24 -!- bobbydurrett has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:29 -!- nooodle has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:31 <@lapis> Yeah just don’t dive into the water unless you have a greased bag/cloak 00:36 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 00:36 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 00:36 -!- bug_sniper_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:36 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 00:37 lapis: Except you mean oilskin not greased and bag not bag/cloak, but other than that, yes. 00:38 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:42 <@IceBox> in some variants an oilskin cloak protects your entire inventory doesn't it? 00:44 <@escargott'em> What are the most well documented/wiki-able variants? 00:44 It's not impossible, but even if lapis had that in mind and wasn't just wrong, it's probably best to mention that advice is variant-specific if it's wrong in vanilla and the questioner didn't say they were playing a variant. 00:44 escargott: 3.4.3 00:46 The pre-wiki spoilers are mostly 3.4.3-specific and of higher quality. 00:48 <@escargott'em> Is nh4 basically 343 with maybe a page of changes outside the scope of just interface stuff? 00:48 <[Demo][srn]1> yes 00:50 <@escargott'em> For the variants with a lot of changes.. Slash, grunt, ace, fiq.. Do you end up needing to source dive? 00:51 <[Demo][srn]1> usually. dnh has good wiki knowledge though 00:54 <@escargott'em> Thanks 00:57 <@IceBox> i found FIQ pretty enjoyable/do-able with the wiki + the one page on FIQ 00:58 <@lapis> I was thinking of dnh, the oilskin cloak does protect everything in that 00:58 <@lapis> A greased bag should still work if you’re very lucky or only diving for a few turns, right? 00:59 If you're _very_ lucky, so will an ungreased bag. 01:00 But with a 50% chance of wearing off each turn, unless you're going to constantly regrease, the expected time to damage any given contents isn't much greater with a greased bag - certainly not compared to the time it'll take you to slug across Water. 01:00 @lapis I've done Water before with a greased sack 01:00 but you have to re-apply the grease as it _will_ wear off as you move through the water 01:00 so you need to have a charged can of grease handy as well 01:01 <@IceBox> if you aren't "very fast" on the plane of water, does waiting a turn not move you exactly the same speed as the bubble? 01:02 the chance of grease wearing off is not 50% each turn - I think the de-greasing only happens when you get hit by "turbulence" 01:02 <@lapis> Do vanilla oilskin cloaks really only protect from grabbing attacks? 01:02 <@IceBox> yep, and MC2 at least 01:02 @lapis yes 01:03 <@lapis> I think the wiki’s 50% chance to degrease is for grab attacks 01:03 sounds right 01:04 The cloak also lets you go swimming in your armour for intentional dilution etc 01:04 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:04 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 01:05 <@lapis> Oh so it protects worn armor from water 01:05 evrything under the cloak anyway 01:05 <@IceBox> according to my luck the chance to degrease in water is 247% 01:07 I daresay you're right re the chance when wading across Water - there are so many other ways to cross Water, I never looked it up 01:07 <@lapis> Chance to degrease is proportional to the number of scrolls and potions of full healing you have in the bag 01:08 <@lapis> Last time I went through water I did it the boring way and waited in the bubbles until the portal showed up 01:08 I've slowboated across in the bubble, it's boring but reliable 01:10 <@IceBox> in 3.6.1 plane of water i dont really know what other option exists 01:10 <@IceBox> blessed geno ";" for shits and grins and it's a damn pleasure cruise 01:10 IceBox: AoMB + oilskin sack? 01:11 <@IceBox> i dunno if i'm just not paying attention but i find like 10 BoH for every one oilskin sack 01:13 4:1 on average, not counting fixed objects like Soko rewards... but ofc you are guaranteed wishes 01:13 <@lapis> Poly into a swimming monster would work too 01:13 Or unbreathing, good one. 01:13 <@lapis> Or unbreathing for that matter yeah 01:17 if you collect amulets of MB and eat them (as a xorn usually), you have a 1/3 chance per amulet of gaining MB intrinsically 01:18 True, and if you've got spares, might as well... 01:18 easier than changing amulets anyway 01:21 <@lapis> Liches, vampires, and xorns seem to be the most useful unbreathing poly targets 01:22 <@escargott'em> I guess amulets are only 20% chance :( rings are 1/3rd though 01:23 <@escargott'em> I should eat some of my rings and amulets I guess, you end up with so many 01:23 oh, is that so. only 20%? Seems right 01:26 -!- Grassy is now known as Grasshopper 01:27 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 01:28 -!- stenno is now known as Guest90494 01:32 -!- Guest90494 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:35 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 01:35 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 01:35 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:36 -!- Grassy is now known as Grasshopper 01:40 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:44 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:44 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 01:44 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 01:48 [Demo][srn]1: why do you consider slex to be the most buggy variant? Tariru got crashes in about half of all the variants he played in Junethack, including a game-erasing crash in nh13, but slex didn't crash on him at all ;) 02:02 -!- Tarmunora has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03 -!- Tarmunora has joined #hardfought 02:04 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:28 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:44 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 02:46 @v?master mind flayer 02:46 @d?elder priest 02:46 hmm 02:48 LarienTelrunya: I updated the pinobot slex monsters 02:48 but I don't know who runs the bot here 02:48 they need to update their code 02:48 oh I see 02:49 well on the other channel it's Elronnd, I'll message him 02:53 !tell K2 Pinobot has been updated, but it seems that this confuses Beholder, whose @v?gnome commands no longer seem to work now?! maybe it has to be reconfigured/restarted 02:53 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 03:28 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 03:29 -!- stenno is now known as Guest40027 03:33 -!- Guest40027 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:44 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 04:22 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 04:22 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 04:29 -!- stenno_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:48 [hdf-us] [dnh] Pimpus (Bar Hlf Mal Neu) killed Oona, on T:70851 05:51 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1] 06:04 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:25 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 06:26 -!- stenno is now known as Guest54625 06:30 -!- Guest54625 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:36 [hdf-us] [dnh] Pimpus (Bar Hlf Mal Neu) destroyed the Arsenal, on T:71428 06:40 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed Medusa, on T:25829 06:51 -!- nooodle has joined #hardfought 07:15 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: High heels are very sexy! <3] 07:19 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) made her first wish - "the blessed greased fixed +3 grayswandir", on T:25984 07:29 -!- Tangles_ has joined #hardfought 07:29 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles_] by ChanServ 07:29 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:30 -!- Tangles has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:45 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) wished for "the blessed greased fixed +3 gray dragon scale mail", on T:27378 07:52 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 07:52 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 07:57 -!- Tangles_ is now known as Tangles 08:02 @v?demogorgon 08:02 Demogorgon (&) | Lvl: 106 | Diff: 57 | Spd: 15 | Res: fire poison drain | Confers: nothing | MR: 95 | Generates: unique | AC: -8 | Attacks: 8d6 cast spell, 1d4 sting level drain, 1d6 claw disease, 1d6 claw disease | Alignment: -20 | Flags: flies, seeinvis, poisonous, nopoly, demon, stalker, covetous, infravisible 08:02 ah good it works again 08:02 !2d6 08:02 Tangles: 1 + 6 = 7 08:07 !rng 1-2 08:07 Tangles: 2 08:07 !rng 2-1 08:08 yeah that's an exception. Thanks stenno. 08:09 -!- irina|log has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:11 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed the Master Assassin, on T:30271 08:11 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:30274 08:11 !rng a-c 08:12 hah it's not even checking for numbers. 08:16 -!- irina|log has joined #hardfought 08:17 -!- irina|log is now known as Guest44531 08:24 -!- Guest44531 is now known as irina|log 08:24 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v irina|log] by ChanServ 08:25 !100d100 08:25 winny: Sorry, I don't have that many dice. 08:25 !5d100 08:25 winny: 15 + 5 + 97 + 86 + 44 = 247 08:26 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 08:27 -!- stenno is now known as Guest72711 08:31 -!- Guest72711 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:49 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:31883 09:04 -!- raisse has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:04 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 09:04 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 09:10 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed the invisible Juiblex, on T:32971 09:11 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed Asmodeus, on T:32995 09:12 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed Baalzebub, on T:33016 09:15 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:33045 09:15 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:33048 09:18 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed the invisible Orcus, on T:33130 09:22 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Tou Hum Fem Cha), 30834 points, T:19890, killed by a bolt of cold 09:38 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Suddenly, Raisse disappears out of sight.] 09:38 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 09:38 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 09:38 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 09:43 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 09:43 -!- stenno is now known as Guest73293 09:48 -!- Guest73293 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:59 hrm, apparently magic chests in dnethack are metal 10:00 guess I know what that rock mole was doing in Sokoban 10:00 <[Demo][srn]1> second person to complain about it in a couple days 10:01 <[Demo][srn]1> in ndnh they are magically immune to being eaten by dumb wandering metalivores 10:01 <[Demo][srn]1> its weird to see it being noticed twice in such a short timespan when its been an issue for so long 10:01 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 10:01 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 10:02 oh6 that might explain why I didn't get one in soko in my dnethack game. 10:03 well, it's sort of an interesting gotcha 10:03 <[Demo][srn]1> yeah you dont really think of it 10:03 not really game-breaking if you can wish for them anyway 10:03 <[Demo][srn]1> and there are plenty more of them 10:03 <[Demo][srn]1> but whats the point of putting one there if its just gonna get eaten anyway? 10:03 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:04 well, it's one of those race for the prize things I suppose 10:04 where "plenty" >= 2 10:04 <[Demo][srn]1> uh... 10:04 oh wait... maybe more 10:04 vlad, castle, rodney. 10:04 <[Demo][srn]1> castle,vlad,tomb,soko,rodney 10:04 <[Demo][srn]1> and they do randomly generate too also so that is a nice thing 10:05 oh yeah the tomb if you find it. 10:05 <[Demo][srn]1> thats always generated though 10:05 <[Demo][srn]1> and a bunch of quests have a magic chest 10:05 <[Demo][srn]1> nearly allow of them maybe 10:07 <@lapis> I see them like half the time in the minetown tool shop 10:07 <@lapis> I also never really use them 10:08 <[Demo][srn]1> they are good for storing things like chaos quest orbs 10:08 <[Demo][srn]1> and crystal gear 10:09 Yeah I've had other games where there have been lots of them. (I think I polypiled some), but notably in my last game there was only vlad,castle,Rodney, and one randomly generated in Nessus (as I mentioned the soko one was missing, and I never found the tomb) 10:09 It's nice that you can move them though. 10:09 <[Demo][srn]1> yeah i like to take one to soko first level 10:10 <[Demo][srn]1> and just use that as home base 10:11 yeah. I ended up dragging the one from Vlad's down to level 7 or so in the main dungeon and doing much the same 10:11 it's a long way, but the only tricky part is getting it upstairs out of the mines. 10:12 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 10:12 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:12 <[Demo][srn]1> i dont like the way the silver key is the crux point for dungeon mobility 10:13 you want branchporting to be more accessible? 10:14 <[Demo][srn]1> no 10:15 <[Demo][srn]1> some safe medium between actually running around and branchporting 10:16 <[Demo][srn]1> I have this idea of a sort of highway type level with a bunch of portals to interesting places in branches but each portal is highly segmented off from the others and you have to either defeat some enemy or sacrifice something to open it up 10:17 <[Demo][srn]1> not sure what to call it 10:17 <[Demo][srn]1> its like a backplane of the dungeon but that doesnt make flavor sense either 10:17 hmmm interesting. 10:17 Un does that a bit, with the various portals in votd. 10:17 unnethack sort of has that on the valley level I think it is - portals to a lot of the dungeon branches 10:18 <[Demo][srn]1> yeah but un has fewer and less long branches and this would be a dedicated level with very flavorful ways to unlock the passage to each portal 10:18 <[Demo][srn]1> im imaging a main room that you get to from a portal under the oracle and it has a connections to all the challenge doors or whatever mechanism is used to keep you out 10:19 <[Demo][srn]1> and you really shouldnt be able to beat the challenge until you've done most of the branch, or are way too strong for it to matter 10:19 sounds like a really cool idea. 10:20 <[Demo][srn]1> the problem is implementing it in a balanced way 10:20 <[Demo][srn]1> cause i see it going two ways 10:20 <[Demo][srn]1> either its too easy and everyone just runs through the challenges real quick, scoops branch objectives and is done, or its too hard and no one bothers with it 10:23 maybe you need some item from the branch itself to open the portal... or you can only open it from the other end, so you'd need to complete the branch before the portal opens... but then it's only useful if there's a reason to keep going back to that branch. Maybe portals at various way-points along the branch. So you can warp back to your stash at key stages, then warp back and keep going. 10:25 I guess magic chests in key places would partly obviate the need for that, if you had portals back to a central location, you could alternate between different areas. 10:25 <[Demo][srn]1> ive thought about requiring like werebuster to open chaos quest challenge gate or something 10:26 <[Demo][srn]1> cause like who the hell would bother grabbing that 10:27 I had this idea of allowing the player to climb into a magic chest, and then somehow allow them to pick which one they wanted to climb out of... 10:27 <[Demo][srn]1> i think intentionally putting the out portals of branches in less than optimal spots would make sense 10:27 I'm probably not the first one to have that idea. 10:27 <[Demo][srn]1> so theres still a little bit of a hike but it is only a couple levels 10:27 <[Demo][srn]1> yeah you arent in my current dnh game i want that so badly 10:28 [hdf-us] [un] picaresquieu (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) stole 209 zorkmids of merchandise from the general store of Akalapi on T:54325 10:28 <[Demo][srn]1> im holed up on mammon's farming infinite full healing and i had to take some dragons back to the dungeon to slaughter them for sdsm 10:28 <[Demo][srn]1> and getting back to mammon's was annoying 10:28 heh 10:29 I think the magic chest thing is OP if you can pick the chests up and move them around though. 10:29 <[Demo][srn]1> right 10:29 -!- aos_ has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:29 <[Demo][srn]1> also the logisitics of trying to implement that would be nuts 10:29 <[Demo][srn]1> probably a lot easier in nh4 based stuff 10:29 <[Demo][srn]1> trying to find all magic chests on other levels in nh3 sounds like a really bad idea 10:30 yeah maybe. 10:31 <[Demo][srn]1> how do zapm power suits work again? 10:31 no idea 10:31 <[Demo][srn]1> working on something similar for clockwork 10:31 -!- Tarmunora has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32 <[Demo][srn]1> if you die in your power suit you usually survive it and the power suit falls away is the plan 10:32 -!- Tarmunora has joined #hardfought 10:33 [hdf-us] [un] picaresquieu (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Durin's Bane, on T:54499 10:34 [hdf-us] [nh361] samiam (Sam Hum Mal Law), 1691 points, T:2733, killed by a rope golem 10:36 -!- Tarmunora has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:37 Demo: ah right... I was imagining something that has no AC while powered off, but lots (maybe 10) while powered on, but slowly consumes charges. Like a defensive equivalent of the lightsaber. 10:37 -!- Tarmunora has joined #hardfought 10:37 [hdf-us] [nh361] dracunos (Val Dwa Fem Law) genocided master mind flayer, on T:61822 10:37 Anyway, gotta sleep. 10:37 'night. 10:44 speaking of magic chests, one of the chests in the back room at the temple of moloch has one in it 11:07 [hdf-us] [un] picaresquieu (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Annootok on T:55088 11:15 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:20 -!- a_boudelia has joined #hardfought 11:22 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 11:22 -!- stenno is now known as Guest68727 11:23 -!- Guest68727 has quit [Client Quit] 11:23 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 11:23 -!- stenno_ has quit [Changing host] 11:23 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 11:23 -!- stenno_ is now known as stenno 11:29 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 11:30 !tell K2 just segfaulted in SpliceHack, is there any way I can get the backtrace? 11:30 Will do, AntiGulp! 11:34 <@rikersan> . 11:34 @rikersan: Message from PavelB at 2018-07-11 19:58 EDT: Can we test real quick 11:34 Hmmm, actually managed to track it down myself locally. Apparently sorting inventory by BCU status is busted. But I never touched that code… 11:35 Yeah, it *does* do the @ 11:35 <[Demo][srn]1> yikes 11:35 <@rikersan> huh 11:35 <@rikersan> demo which spirit gives astral vision 11:35 <@rikersan> nvm orthos 11:38 <[Demo][srn]1> how do i srot inventory by BUC status? 11:40 Wait, I think I fixed it. Turns out it was a 3.6.2B change that broke things. This is why I should stop pulling in development version changes. Demo: At the moment, it just segfaults when using ‘D’ to try to drop things of certain BUC statuses 11:40 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:43 [hdf-us] [nh361] Leggman (Arc Hum Mal Law) made his first wish - "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:1904 11:43 !tell K2 Fixed the segfault, was caused by vanilla 3.6.2 changes I unwittingly pulled in. Updated version can be pulled whenever. 11:43 Will do, AntiGulp! 11:43 <[Demo][srn]1> ah neat 11:43 [hdf-us] [nh361] Leggman (Arc Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed +3 silver dragon scale mail", on T:1926 11:44 [hdf-us] [nh361] Leggman (Arc Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed +3 rustproof greased cloak of magic resistance", on T:1939 11:44 <@rikersan> !tell Chris_ANG idea: one of the binder spirits, maybe dalhver nah or amon, grants curse resistance. it's a pretty useful intrinsic, and fits with a demonic theme for one of them 11:44 Will do, @rikersan! 11:45 [hdf-us] [nh361] Leggman (Arc Hum Mal Law) made his first artifact wish - "blessed +3 Grayswandir", on T:1943 11:45 [hdf-us] [nh361] Leggman (Arc Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed +3 fireproof boots of speed", on T:1946 11:45 [hdf-us] [nh361] Leggman (Arc Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed +3 greased rustproof helm of brilliance", on T:1949 11:47 <@rikersan> nice, a 0:3 wand 11:47 [Demo][srn]1 Your city of Brass idea sounds awesome. 11:48 [hdf-us] [nh361] Leggman (Arc Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed +3 fireproof gauntlets of dexterity", on T:2256 11:48 [hdf-us] [nh361] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) made her first wish - "blessed greased +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:4320 11:48 <[Demo][srn]1> at this point its more than an idea 11:48 <[Demo][srn]1> i think the quest is done now 11:48 <[Demo][srn]1> which means it isnt but i dont remember what im forgetting but oh well 11:50 [hdf-us] [nh361] IceBox (Ran Elf Mal Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping 2 daggers on an altar, on T:3358 11:52 <@rikersan> what is it? 11:54 <[Demo][srn]1> salamander rebel quest 11:56 [hdf-us] [nh361] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 3261 points, T:4933, killed by a white unicorn 11:58 Is making tiles work for a variant just editing monsters.txt, objects.txt by hand? 11:58 <[Demo][srn]1> not sure 12:05 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 12:05 -!- Grassy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:08 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: explodes into confetti] 12:10 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 speed boots", on T:38290 12:16 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed magic marker", on T:38671 12:25 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:29 [hdf-us] [nh361] knavery (Rog Orc Fem Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping a runed dagger on an altar, on T:4159 12:31 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:39192 12:31 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:39195 12:32 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:39199 12:33 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:39214 12:42 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:39531 12:42 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:39535 12:48 <@rikersan> P - a wand called vanish 1 K - a wand called vanish 2 M - a wand called vanish 3 12:48 <@rikersan> it's time to play the self-zap lottery :D 12:49 !who 12:49 PavelB: [hdf-us] oh6 [dnh] monstergrin [dnh] knavery [nh361] hypnotist [nh361] 12:49 PavelB: [hdf-eu] No current players 12:49 PavelB: [hdf-au] No current players 12:49 <[Demo][srn]1> or just zap a monster? 12:49 <@rikersan> yea ik 12:49 <@rikersan> found which is tele and make invis 12:50 <@rikersan> pavel this is local dnh since I like the new things 12:50 -!- oh6_ has joined #hardfought 12:50 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v oh6_] by ChanServ 12:50 Waiting for K2 to pull? 12:50 <@rikersan> nah he won't 12:50 <[Demo][srn]1> no its not stable rn, it's on a devel branch 12:50 <@rikersan> it's dev still 12:51 hm, apparently despite finding a magic chest inside a chest, you can't put them into containers ordinarily 12:51 <[Demo][srn]1> just looking through the commits you can see a shit ton of new issues 12:51 <@rikersan> oh6: that seems like a bug 12:52 <@rikersan> he still hasn't nerfed trollsbane :D 12:52 <[Demo][srn]1> didn't chris say he didn't care? 12:52 <@rikersan> oh did he 12:52 <@rikersan> I missed that bit 12:52 <[Demo][srn]1> about containers generating in special containers 12:52 <@rikersan> ah 12:52 <[Demo][srn]1> I think he determined it wasn't breaking anything 12:52 <@rikersan> I think he said "yeah i fixed it some places but who cares anywhere else" 12:52 <@rikersan> like treasure vaults are fixed 12:52 <[Demo][srn]1> oh 12:53 <[Demo][srn]1> how is trollsbane? 12:55 <@escargott'em> What is worth canceling in end game? 12:55 <@escargott'em> Oh, cursed boh I guess :p 12:56 <@escargott'em> Maybe some summon nasties creatures can be cancelled, but does it work on any of the main dangerous end game monsters? 12:56 <@rikersan> it's great 12:56 [hdf-us] [dnh] monstergrin (Ana Elf Fem Cha) killed Illurien of the Myriad Glimpses, on T:42870 12:56 <@rikersan> silvered and +2d20 vs covetous 12:56 <@rikersan> I found it's a pretty good caveman weapon too 12:56 <@rikersan> better than the QA 12:57 <[Demo][srn]1> hmm 12:57 <[Demo][srn]1> why does it get covetous bonus? 12:57 <@rikersan> no clue :D 12:57 <@rikersan> it's just written in 12:58 <[Demo][srn]1> well at least no sane ndnh cave would use it 12:59 <@rikersan> why not? 13:00 <[Demo][srn]1> cause QA is so much better 13:01 <@rikersan> ah 13:01 <@rikersan> what'd you buff again 13:01 <@rikersan> I accidentally same race sacced as an orc 13:02 <@rikersan> and now baphomet is just chilling 13:02 <[Demo][srn]1> spear points 13:02 <@rikersan> oh is the QA now a spear 13:06 <[Demo][srn]1> bone spear 13:06 <@rikersan> hm are demons not undead 13:07 <[Demo][srn]1> they aren't 13:07 <@rikersan> that's annoying 13:07 <@rikersan> means circle of acheron won't ward baphomet 13:10 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:40592 13:10 <[Demo][srn]1> well yeah 13:11 <[Demo][srn]1> that would be so op 13:11 <[Demo][srn]1> defeat the purpose of like pentagram 13:15 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:40896 13:15 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:40897 13:19 -!- a_boudelia has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.1] 13:24 -!- oh6_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:25 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed Death, on T:41235 13:28 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed Death, on T:41272 13:29 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:41288 13:32 <@rikersan> oh yeah demo: trollsbane also does 2x enchantment to covetous 13:35 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:41339 13:36 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:41357 13:37 <@rikersan> YANI: acidic (blob, ochre/spotted jelly) corpses don't go bad, but they do rot away. (you'll never get sick from eating them but they will dissapear) 13:38 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 2836652 points, T:41371, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/h/hypnotist/nh361/dumplog/1531316969.nh361.txt 13:38 !asc hypnotist 13:38 nooodle: [hdf-us] hypnotist has ascended 21 times in 52 games (40.38%): nh361:21 (42.86%) 13:38 <@escargott'em> Nice 13:38 ugh it's going down 13:38 <@escargott'em> Why were you still picking random items up in astral? 13:39 <@escargott'em> Don't you already have everything you need by then 13:39 <@escargott'em> I was watching the really fast catching up part when you first spectate, so I didn't see clearly :p 13:39 not sure if you're talking to me, but i pick up create monster items to keep monsters from using them, and healing items for myself 13:40 also lightning wands if i remember to, since blindness is annoying 13:40 <@escargott'em> Makes sense 13:42 <@escargott'em> @IceBox you must really like satellite radio 13:44 <@IceBox> haha what? 13:44 ugh stupid new moon stupid friday the 13th 13:45 <@escargott'em> Your pet name :p 13:51 <@Dracunos> What's the story with the sirius pet name 13:52 [hdf-us] [nh361] samiam (Sam Hum Mal Law), 5721 points, T:5243, killed by an Uruk-hai 13:53 [hdf-us] [dnh] monstergrin (Ana Elf Fem Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:43790 13:56 -!- tacco| has joined #hardfought 13:59 <@rikersan> @Dracunos orion the hunter from mythology had a dog named sirius 13:59 <[Demo][srn]1> why come my splicehack mermaid doesnt have a pet goldfish called glub glub the goldfish? 14:12 [hdf-us] [dnh] monstergrin (Ana Elf Fem Cha) was given their Quest, on T:43890 14:16 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 14:26 <@IceBox> ah i gotchu, @Dracunos, and i was wondering about that too 14:27 <@IceBox> got it, Sirius is Orion's dog 14:27 <@IceBox> the famed hunter among the stars 15:05 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Hum Fem Cha), 6343 points, T:5999, killed by a human mummy 15:17 [hdf-us] [nh361] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 2526 points, T:4551, killed by an owlbear 15:20 I hate to lose this "feature" if that's what it is, but I kicked an uncursed scroll of scare monster and was later able to pick it up. Is that normal? 15:22 ah, "any individual scroll can only be picked up while uncursed once". I guess I never knew that. 15:36 <@rikersan> well shoot I summoned mammon 15:36 <@rikersan> !tell Chris_ANG mammon's breath shows as disint but it's actually gold i think 15:36 Will do, @rikersan! 15:37 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 15:37 <@rikersan> !tell Chris_ANG why are ogres 'same-race sac" for orcs? what 15:37 Will do, @rikersan! 15:39 I want a pet goldfish 15:39 <@rikersan> so do I antigulp 15:39 <@rikersan> so do I 15:40 crunchyroll sent me an email asking me how i liked a specific anime i was watching there 15:40 <@rikersan> lol 15:40 <@rikersan> which one? 15:40 imagine i watched some ecchi/hentai shit 15:40 @rikersan yurikuma arashi 15:41 like, "How did you like Everyone, let's get laid!! We think its pretty nifty!" 15:41 stenno: Oh, the way Youtube suggests based on the most atypical thing you watched last 15:41 <@rikersan> LOL 15:41 Watch one video about those gater arseholes, "Recommended for you, Twitch raid makes girl cry", no thank you Youtube I'm not a fucking monster 15:42 yurikuma arashi is even borderline ecchi 15:42 yeah.. 15:42 that reminds of that netflix screenshot, lemme find it 15:42 Youtube’s reccommendation system makes me so sad 15:42 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQYBf5SXkAAfg1w.jpg:large 15:43 pffffft 15:43 :D 15:43 i have that problem especially when watching minecraft videos on youtube 15:44 because there is only a single minecraft youtuber that i can stand 15:44 everyone else is annoying me 15:44 watching a playlist of that streamer, and suddenly it jumps to an obnoxious 12-year old screaming into the mic about some shit i don't care about 15:45 thats a problem with a 'family-friendly' game like minecraft in general 15:45 just lots of kids putting out annoying content 15:45 <[Demo][srn]1> yeah 15:45 which of course is fine by itself, but YTs algorithms rub that under my nose 15:46 <[Demo][srn]1> does anyone know what power armor does? 15:46 Most adult HI GUYS STOATFACE123 HERE SUBSCRIBE AND LIKE people aren't much better 15:47 thats tue 15:47 true 15:47 <@rikersan> demo: in what zapm? 15:47 <[Demo][srn]1> i think im just gonna make it increase carry cap, increase AC, and give very fast speed when activated 15:47 <[Demo][srn]1> no in general 15:47 unfortunately these are also popular 15:47 <@rikersan> ah 15:47 <[Demo][srn]1> doesnt fallout have power armor or something? 15:47 <[Demo][srn]1> trying to figure out what power armor is supposed to do in general 15:47 yeah fallout has power armor 15:48 but it doesn't make you fast 15:48 it gives you protection against all kind of stuff, and also protection against radiation 15:48 and it also increases carry cap a think 15:48 ah fuck man i wanted to go to the supermarket and now its basically too late 15:48 no food for me tonight i guess 15:49 <[Demo][srn]1> too late or ull get stabbed or what? 15:49 the supermarket closes at 10pm 15:49 <[Demo][srn]1> or wait do they close like at reasonable times there 15:49 <@rikersan> kek 15:50 <[Demo][srn]1> all the german supermarkets around here pull that shit 15:50 yes we have employees rights here in germany 15:50 <[Demo][srn]1> u think ur gonna roll up for some 10 o clock cheap snakcs and no, it closed at 9 15:50 and balanced market competitions 15:50 now i am basically left with beer 15:50 <[Demo][srn]1> well we have aldis and lidls here now 15:50 could go junkfood from the gas station i guess 15:50 s/go/get 15:51 in USA? 15:51 <[Demo][srn]1> yes 15:51 wow 15:51 <[Demo][srn]1> aldi is the best because very cheap junk foood 15:51 surprising that they dare to compete there 15:51 they should go to africa 15:51 in marrakesh there was not a single supermarket 15:52 <[Demo][srn]1> they are winning 15:52 <[Demo][srn]1> it's nuts 15:52 <[Demo][srn]1> everything is so cheap 15:52 we had no way to buy food there for ourselves so we had to go to a restaurant each day 15:52 for each meal apart from breakfast 15:53 [hdf-us] [nh361] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 1636 points, T:2476, killed by a Kop Sergeant 15:53 <@lapis> The American version of aldi is the opposite of cheap lol 15:53 <@rikersan> walmart? 15:53 <@lapis> Trader Joe’s 15:53 do i order some fastfood like i did yesterday 15:53 <@rikersan> walmart is where the trashy goes to get food 15:53 <@rikersan> ah 15:53 do i get junkfood from the gas station 15:54 do i just cry silently and drink and hope that i fall asleep soon 15:54 i think the 3rd option is the most attractive one 15:54 <[Demo][srn]1> the aldis around here are so cheap and great 15:55 <[Demo][srn]1> you can get a big ole thing of knock off thin mints for 95 cents 15:55 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 15:56 in germany, aldi is the cheapest supermarket 15:56 with the worst quality generally 15:56 edeka and rewe are the more expensive supermarkets 15:56 -!- ais523 has quit [Client Quit] 15:56 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 16:00 <[Demo][srn]1> we have aldi and lidl and both are pretty cheap 16:00 [hdf-us] [nh361] IceBox (Ran Elf Mal Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping a concave amulet on an altar, on T:4368 16:00 <[Demo][srn]1> aldi wins for snack foods, lidl wins for real foods 16:00 fuck man imma just order some shit 16:00 just like yesterday 16:00 i am the worstest 16:01 also i have actually now started to properly write my spoiler about mkclass and minesflayers 16:01 already got the introduction and the general overview done 16:02 [hdf-us] [nh361] knavery (Rog Orc Fem Cha) had Stormbringer bestowed upon her by Kos, on T:9844 16:02 <[Demo][srn]1> oh thats a very good topic that i like a lot 16:02 <[Demo][srn]1> is it for 3.6.1 or what? 16:02 yeah 3.6.1 16:02 i have the raw version done, now i am putting it into proper text 16:02 will RFC in this channel when i'm done 16:05 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 16:06 <[Demo][srn]1> nice 16:08 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Tou Hum Mal Cha), 4836 points, T:6611, killed by a panther 16:10 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 16:10 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 16:13 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: AntiGulp] 16:17 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 16:27 * stenno doesn't get his markup question answered in #html and just does potentially unsemantic html out of spite :v 16:27 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 16:28 stenno: A proper spoiler, good show! 16:28 Do email Eva Myers about it. 16:28 who is eva myers 16:28 http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html 16:29 keep in mind that i only started playing nethack when the wiki was already establish 16:29 ed 16:29 It says 3.4.3 at the top, but it's a pretty canonical list of the old-style spoilers. 16:29 stenno: I don't know if I'll know the answer to your question, but I'm at least probably more interested in answering it 16:30 ais523: if i have a

containing several lines of text, should i use
to semantically seperate those lines 16:30 see this example http://jsfiddle.net/j59pw24e/2/ 16:30 stenno: hmm, now I'm trying to remember what MediaWiki's uses 16:30

inside

is correct if the text forms paragraphs 16:31 if it isn't,
or tends to produce the best visual effect 16:31 I'm of the opinion that

is almost always a mistake 16:31 any poem should use
16:31

 ?
16:31  if you're trying to preserve a 2D layout (as in NetHack), use 16:31  <@Tone> Demo: Power armor generally increases strength
16:32  What's an 
 ?
16:32  <@Tone> I'm somewhat familiar with Warhammer 40k and Fallout power armor
16:32  Pinkbeast: HTML entity for a newline
16:32  ais523: Thanks
16:32 <[Demo][srn]1> oh yeah strength
16:32  you can't just write a literal newline because it's interpreted as whitespace and changed to a space
16:32  ais523: see my example fiddle
16:33  <@Tone> Increases strength, high AC, in 40k it would provide a bonus to heat, lasers, and plasma
16:33  [Demo][srn]1: And usually the strength lets you carry the armour, otherwise it's just an exoskeleton
16:33  Well, in 40k fluff it does, in crunch very little :-)
16:33  stenno: aha
16:33  semantically I think that's  and  but that might not be visually correct
16:34  hmm
16:34  good point
16:34  you did add leading hyphens, which implies that maybe you're mentally treating it as a list
16:34  scratch the visually anyway, thats not what html is about
16:34  We came up with an alternative canon for _Space Hulk_ where, given how much they die, the "elite" Terminators are roided-up cannon fodder fed in first in pot metal armour, and once they blunt the edge of the enemy advance the professionals from the Guard are sent in. But I digress
16:34  terminators are slow but sturdy
16:35  stenno: So says the fluff, but game mechanically they're just slow. All that stuff about 400-year-old armour is just a line they've been fed.
16:35  stenno: well you can CSS anything to look like anything but at some point it's not worth the effort
16:35  Pinkbeast: i guess crux terminatus is nice
16:35  I wrote some code for Wikipedia a while back to make tables look like lists
16:35  because transcluding special pages was outputting in table form even though it shouldn't
16:35  ais523: Ha, are you an editor too?
16:36  I used to be an admin on Wikipedia
16:36  mh
16:36  but I'm hardly active there nowadays so I resigned years ago
16:36  ais523: It is a complete sausage factory :-
16:36  I mostly focused on the technical side of things
16:37  oh wikipedia uses mediawiki
16:37  ais523: A wise decision. I stick around because I can't walk away from doing damage control.
16:37  while I was active I was one of the main people doing sweeping changes to the entire site
16:37  but there's only so much of that that you can do before everything is back in order
16:37  there was quite a backlog building up before I was elected, though
16:38  in the german WP we had a 'relevance debate' for a long time like a decade ago
16:38  stenno: Ah, but in our scenario they get them all hopped up, fight one battle, and award the survivors a crux thingy. It's like original UFO (XCOM) - "hi, rookie, welcome to X-COM. Here's a flare and a taser. Come back alive, you can have a gun."
16:40  stenno: on enwiki the rules started out requiring verifiability ([[WP:V]])
16:40  also i see according to fluff the crux terminatus doesn't have a splinter of the emperors bone in it, but a splinter of its power armor
16:41  but there was a very popular essay requiring notability ([[WP:N]]), which is something I disagreed with as the primary determiner of what should be included
16:41  anymore
16:41  ais523: Spam made me a deletionist
16:41  (on the basis that if something is notable but not verifiable, you can't write an article about it because you have no way to know if it's correct)
16:41  stenno: It's like fragments of the true cross
16:41  Pinkbeast: i am pretty sure it _was_ part of the bone at some point
16:41  ais523: lemme find if i can find an english summary about relevance debate 
16:41  some time after I mostly stopped editing, the verifiability fans managed to unify the camps by defining notability in terms of verifiability! ([[WP:GNG]])
16:42  stenno: No, you're right, I'm just saying if you had a squillion of these to give out to the next load of suckers, you might end up coming up with enough Emprah's bone for a whale or two
16:42  Pinkbeast: I'm an incrementalist, basically someone who believes that it's best to focus on more important topics than less important topics but everything can be covered eventually
16:42  basically it was an (in)famous member of the CCC called felix leitner or fefe
16:42  Pinkbeast: yep :P
16:42  ais523: I mean, I'm only a deletionist where there's spam. 13th century romantic poet? Sure! Fine article. :-)
16:43  but that it's important that the number of people maintaining the wiki can keep up with the number of people contributing new content
16:43  and there was a huge-ass edit war if a wp page about his blog should be deleted
16:43  at this point, though, it's very difficult to add new content to Wikipedia because almost everything is there already
16:43  It's very difficult to add new useful content, there's a constant tide of "Mike Stoatface is a PR consultant who promotes synergy and has six awards for getting awards" :-(
16:44  [[WP:CSD#A7]]
16:44  right now each sentence of the article has at least one source reference
16:44  it's a low bar but all that random newpage spam has trouble clearing it
16:45  the "with the exception of educational institutions" is hilarious
16:45  ais523: But damage control is neverending. That said, the recent move to make basically every new page go via AFC (Draft, these days) may help
16:45  I have no idea how the precedent got set that Wikipedia needs an article on every school in the world (or at least, that as long as the school exists the article shouldn't be deleted), but it's pretty longstanding
16:45  ais523: Actually we've been chipping away at that.
16:45  Pinkbeast: I used to do some newpage patrol, it's not too bad
16:45  you do need to speedy a lot of things though
16:46 <[Demo][srn]1> hmm this is a mess
16:46  I've got NPP rights but too much elsewhere, and the all-AFC thing reduces the number of NP
16:46 <[Demo][srn]1> using lamp code for power armor because..... why
16:46  could you explain NPP rights to me? they used not to exist, anyone could do it
16:47  oh, is it just to remove the "unpatrolled" mark from the newpage log?
16:47  (which also used not to exist)
16:47  ais523: going back to my markup, i don't think a list is adequate here. The content of the blockquote is rodney's ??minesflayer learndb entry btw
16:47  ais523: Errr I think so? I've done like two since getting it, so don't ask me.
16:47  the dashes are only because of my irc client outputting private notice like that
16:48  stenno: it's awkward, people normally use  for IRC quotes but I'm not personally sure that's correct
16:48  you'd at least need to set it to word-wrap (it doesn't by default but it's a non-optional setting you can turn on)
16:48  yeah i go with  then
16:49  css comes later
16:49  in my experience, any attempt to classify all possible anything tend to lead to most of the cases you want in practice not falling neatly into any of the categories :-D
16:50  The great advantage of AFC-for-all is now the junk we don't have eyes for sits in Draftspace
16:51  I can see the merit about being stricter on new pages as the wiki gets larger
16:52  the chance that any given new page is useful goes down because the number of spam/useless pages you can write hasn't decreased, but the number of useful pages you can write has
16:52  Also now everyone uses it, every spammer wants to write in it
16:53  most spammers are trivially easy to block; unfortunately it's the set that aren't that's a problem
16:53  ... leaving aside the usual quota of toxic kooks. I despair every time I have to look at a page in the Balkans
16:53  [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Hea Gno Fem Neu) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:4195
16:54  most awkward is when someone associated with a site writes a page that could be legitimate in completely the wrong style
16:54  because you don't want to leave it there but you don't want to remove the title either
16:54  and it probably isn't even spam
16:54  [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 328 points, T:4241, killed by a gas spore's explosion
16:55  so what should i do as a normal page visitor when i find a wiki article that is in my opinion not up to the general standards i would expect?
16:55  stenno: Despair^W
16:55  i.e. poor grammar and wording and pov stuff
16:55  lol
16:55  Check the talk page to see if it's currently a bleeding ulcer.
16:55  ew :(
16:56  Fix grammar/spelling/etc. (Remember "resp." is not a word).
16:56 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:56  With the rest, he says like a giant hypocrite, do BRD. Change it, talk about it if it gets reverted back. Then when it turns out it was reverted back by an obsessive kook who's the only other person who watches the page...
16:57 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought
16:57  ais523: I was just hypocritically singing the praises of BRD
16:57  what does that mean, BRD?
16:57  Bold Revert Discuss.
16:58  As in, Alice makes a bold change. Bob reverts. Alice doesn't just revert back ha fucking ha but goes to the talk page
16:58  it works, as long as you aren't an idiot about it
16:58  the basic idea of BRD is that if you aren't sure if you should make a change, just make it, but anyone can change it back if they disagree, then the people in question are supposed to talk to each other
16:58  it works much better than asking for permission but nobody is reading so you never get it
16:59  basically by ensuring that each argument has two sides before it starts
16:59  if it's unanimous then you can just make the change
17:00  [hdf-us] [nh361] Leggman (Arc Hum Mal Law) completed Sokoban, on T:6129
17:00  stenno: If you (as Alice) do do this, you can argue the meta-case from a position of unparalled purity.
17:00  i see lol
17:01  mh the blurriness of my vision indicate that its time to go to bed
17:02  From my POV it's usually Alice the shill makes a bold spammy change, Pink reverts, Alice reverts, Pink sighs and reckons they'll probably fuck off if Pink reverts again. Often they do. Pink is a naughty editor, but there's so much of this shit...
17:02  sounds annoying
17:03  I am presenting quite a cynical view. You can often just make sensible changes, especially grammar etc fixes, and not have any hassle.
17:03 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: explodes into confetti]
17:04  in the last years i did some sort of 180 regarding emotional subjective discussions
17:05  back then i used to throw myself into those kind of discussions, angrily yelling along with the other dimwits
17:05  nowadays i just avoid those discussions in the first place, can't stand them
17:05  i guess as a WP editor you have to lead a lot of those kind of discussions
17:05  stenno: Well, not lead.
17:05  participate in
17:06  Anyone who edits is an editor; editors aren't a special subset of those who edit.
17:06  My flexible edits mean I won't mislead a shill about that, but if I refer to myself as an editor and a shill misunderstands, well, to bad
17:06  oh then i misunderstood a previous statement
17:07  ais523 used to be an admin - that's a select group
17:07  yeah
17:07  Flexible ethics.
17:07  you asked if ais was an editor too
17:07  thats why i got confused
17:08  like, i have edited a few things too on wikipedia probably
17:08  Mmm, I see why. And yes, to get stuff done you do have to do these discussions, but...
17:08  the way you were talking about it sounded as if it was a special role
17:08  right but i gotcha now
17:08  also i have to sleep
17:08 <[Demo][srn]1> good luck
17:09  good night and happy hacking, or editing
17:09  thanks [Demo][srn]1 i will need it
17:09  ... if they get entrenched, not to be too platitudinous, but the dispute resolution mechanisms do work and plus if they come out for you you have a stick to hit the other party with
17:09  G'night
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17:11  .
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17:13  tomorrow i have to speak english with some french people so gotta be somewhat awake
17:14 <[Demo][srn]1> oh god
17:15 <[Demo][srn]1> how the fuck do europeans speak english to each other. Its hard enough to understand a german accent and a french accent but a german trying to understand a french accent or vice versa sounds impossible
17:15  they are IT people though so i expect that we can understand each other good enough
17:15 <[Demo][srn]1> ah
17:15  it works out well
17:15  usually
17:15  [Demo][srn]1: Glaswegians and Texans can speak English to each other... actually this is a lie
17:15  in scandinavia and the netherlands, people speak perfect english
17:15 <[Demo][srn]1> texans cant speak english to anyone
17:15  [Demo][srn]1: You've never met a Glaswegian?
17:16 <[Demo][srn]1> sounds like norway combined with glass
17:16 <[Demo][srn]1> oh the scotts
17:16 <[Demo][srn]1> oh go
17:16  somewhat related, a scotsman talking about water https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GceNsojnMf0
17:17 <[Demo][srn]1> oh thats not bad at all thats fine
17:18 <[Demo][srn]1> ok it got worse
17:18 <[Demo][srn]1> still better than lower class french with very bad english
17:18  Can't do Youtube here, but your average Scots accent is not entirely like Glasgow.
17:19 <[Demo][srn]1> im sure they are the worst most unintelligble kind
17:20  that is because you haven't heard a japanese speak english
17:20  they are not even trying
17:20  Eh, we had a few Japanese users at Chemistry and they were pretty clear, as a rule
17:21  [hdf-us] [4k] hothraxxa (Mon Hum Fem Cha) entered the Rogue tribute level, on T:18065
17:21  I mean, selection effect because you don't come to blow up fume cupboards in Cambridge unless you speak reasonable English
17:22 <[Demo][srn]1> there are some british dialects that dont sound like english
17:22  Japanese speaking English is normally perfectly intelligible, the main issue is that some English letters just don't exist in Japanese and so they have trouble pronouncing them, but English has enough redundancy that you can normally understand it anyway
17:23  [Demo][srn]1: For example, Glas- well, you get the point
17:24 <[Demo][srn]1> i dont know what british means but i didnt think the scots counted as british
17:24 <[Demo][srn]1> i mean the one where they drop all the vowel sounds
17:24  [Demo][srn]1: Scotland is in Britain, yes.
17:24  [hdf-us] [dnh] oh6 (Mon Hlf Fem Cha) killed Croesus, on T:40320
17:26  [Demo][srn]1: basically, the UK is the nation that's a member of the UN and the like; it's made out of numerous individual "countries" (but not countries in the traditional sense, they're more like states), of which the largest are England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Island; "British" means "part of the UK's population"; however "Great Britain" is a purely geographical term referring to a particular island in the Atlantic (that contains most of 
17:26  England, Scotland, and Wales) rather than to the UK as a whole
17:27  the "British Isles" are the entire archipelago that contains Great Britain (most of which is in the UK, although the Republic of Island is also part of it, so some people prefer a term like "British and Irish Isles")
17:28  *Northern Ireland
17:28  all this is complex enough that even the English often get it wrong, though :-P
17:28  (Scots, the Welsh, etc. have more of an incentive to get it right)
17:29 <[Demo][srn]1> all i know is i dont trust the english to tell me who is english
17:29 <[Demo][srn]1> i know your imperialisitic games
17:29  It doesn't help that until C20th the British often did say "England", the UK having being assembled by the traditional mechanism of murdering people and nicking their countries
17:30  so the scots count as british, and /most/ of them live on Great Britain (although there are many other islands that are part of Scotland, such as the Hebrides)
17:30  Pinkbeast: that's not quite right; the English never did beat Scotland in a war
17:31  ais523: Certainly did! (Yes, King James the I and VI)
17:31  what actually happened is that due to a complex series of intermarriages and the like, the same person ended up becoming King of England and King of Scotland simultaneously
17:31  and the thing about royal inheritance is that when two thrones have ended up merging like that, they tend to stay merged
17:31  But would not realistically have remained in that personal union without a bunch of murdering first
17:31  well, yes, but that was par for the course in those times
17:32  plenty of murdering within English and Scottish royalty individually :-P
17:32  Oh, sure, but we kept it up for ages, no-one else has murdered people and nicked all of India. :-/
17:32  so Scotland ends up as one of the parts of the UK which, like the City of London, England nevere properly conquered
17:33  It's a bit more complicated than that
17:33  it's always more complicated than that :-(
17:33  Realistically the Act of Union wouldn't have happened if the Scots weren't de facto beaten.
17:34  you can say that the scottish leadership/seat of power was de facto beaten
17:34  most of the country, though (at least by land area) is almost impossible to conquer, too mountainous
17:35 <[Demo][srn]1> one time the english said the us was english so now i cant trust
17:35  [Demo][srn]1: British! :-)
17:35  [Demo][srn]1: it /was/, once, but it rebelled
17:35 <[Demo][srn]1> redcoats
17:35  [Demo][srn]1: I mean, I understand them separating, Britain had a crazy ruler mad with syphilis whereas now you have... oh
17:35 <[Demo][srn]1> see americans dont like terrorism and i dont know why
17:35 <[Demo][srn]1> its a country founded on terrorism
17:36 <[Demo][srn]1> haha
17:36  [hdf-us] [nh361] Leggman (Arc Hum Mal Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:7860
17:36  ... and that funded quite a lot of it in South America and Northern Ireland 
17:36  Actually right now I think we've got him
17:37 <[Demo][srn]1> oh yeah good point nevermind we're still doing our job
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17:50  Well, good for you! What was your job?
17:52 <[Demo][srn]1> terrorism
17:53 <[Demo][srn]1> gotta keep everyone on their toes wondering what dumb shit is gonna be done next
17:53  Plus, it keeps Tom Lehrer in royalties
17:54 <[Demo][srn]1> so i think im gonna let power armor speed stack with ex/intrinsic
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18:05  [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Kni Hum Fem Law) rejected atheism by consulting with the priestess of Brigit, on T:5471
18:21 <[Demo][srn]1> thank god im able to accept the fact that spell casters have no business trying to cast in power armor
18:22  Except with Cheibriados no wait wrong game
18:23 <[Demo][srn]1> theres no way to do it without it being goody
18:23 <[Demo][srn]1> goofy
18:24  Well, you could be able to do it but unable to run away
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18:36  <@lapis> Make a special set of magical powered armor or something
18:36  <@lapis> Trade out all the other bonuses for slow speed and spellcasting
18:38 <[Demo][srn]1> no power armor is very very trong
18:38 <[Demo][srn]1> only for anachrononauts, specifically for those that arent gonna cast
18:38  Just make casting magic burn out power armour for  turns, losing the bonuses/causing maluses
18:38 <[Demo][srn]1> When on +2 movement points, 25 str, -16 ac, carries its own weight and +100 carry cap. When off -6 ac, weighs 500.
18:38 <[Demo][srn]1> and thats just the defensive
18:39  Cast finger of death? Enjoy being slow and burdened for 7 turns
18:39 <[Demo][srn]1> the offensive is the awesome cool blaster ability
18:39 <[Demo][srn]1> its not meant for use
18:40 <[Demo][srn]1> allows you to fire 1d2 + spe/2 blaster bolts at the cost of 1 turn of use of suit per bolt but other than that no really big cost
18:42 <[Demo][srn]1> err thats 1d(2 + spe/2)
18:42  Now give gnomes access to a (less powerful ofc) clockwork exosuit
18:43 <[Demo][srn]1> no they get their vape and get to smile
18:56  YASI: Magboots - prevents flight, levitation, swimming, (non-player-initiated) teleports, magic portals, etc
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18:58 <[Demo][srn]1> trying to figure out if this armor suit is op and i cant tell
18:59  Is it just torso or does it use up other armour slots?
19:00 <[Demo][srn]1> just torse
19:00 <[Demo][srn]1> it counts as heavy armor so blocks lightsaber forms
19:00  Another ana YASI: concussive gauntlets - Adds enchantment to unarmed attacks, greatly increased chance of staggering blows and/or shatter opponent's weapon, allows you to punch through walls
19:00 <[Demo][srn]1> its is metal so blocks spellcasting
19:01  So basically for a human ana
19:01 <[Demo][srn]1> well not quite
19:01  Or any ana using firearms
19:01 <[Demo][srn]1> it gets a +2 speed bonus which isnt much
19:01 <[Demo][srn]1> but stacks with clockwork
19:02  ndNh has clockwork ana?
19:02 <[Demo][srn]1> clockwork ana will start with it
19:02 <[Demo][srn]1> well its gonna after i finish this armour
19:02 <[Demo][srn]1> which it is nearly done now i think
19:02  Ah
19:02 <[Demo][srn]1> need to make sure it charges up properly and gives some messages as it dies
19:04 <[Demo][srn]1> might add brass knuckles too and make clk ana a melee type starter
19:04 * Tarmunora points to concussive gauntlets YASI
19:15 <[Demo][srn]1> Pretty sure clockwork ana are silver mfaction
19:16  <@IceBox> noob Elbereth question. I'm in the mines standing on a staircase with a finger-engraved Elbereth but this tiger just attacked me, despite Elbereth still appearing correctly when close-looking
19:16  <@IceBox> what's the deal? Is the tiger blinded, most likely?
19:25  [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Kni Hum Fem Law) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:9956
19:33  @IceBox: assuming 3.6.something, does the tile say exactly "Elbereth"? it won't work if there's other text on it too (or a misspelling)
19:34  if it does, then blindness is the only reasonable explanation
19:34  (although in 3.6.0 even an intact Elbereth will degrade basically immediately)
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19:52  <@lapis> Demo, do you know if the black web spirit trains bare handed? In that case the gauntlets would be good for them too
19:58 <[Demo][srn]1> they are gonna be clockwork flavored I think
19:58 <[Demo][srn]1> clockwork, not having minds, couldn't be overcome by the great nascent thought
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20:05  <@lapis> i meant as another choice of item for female drow
20:05  <@lapis> if you're gonna do that, you should make those gauntlets fingerless
20:05  <@lapis> so they can use the annulus in ring form for the enchantment bonus
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20:30  <@IceBox> ais523: yeah here's a screencap
20:30   https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/467125560360042506/unknown.png
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20:32  [hdf-us] [nh361] knavery (Rog Orc Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:13598
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20:41  someday i'll have nethack from gamepad
20:41  ergonomics reasons
20:44  <@Dracunos> http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/iieeann/media/bWVkaWFJZDoyMjM3MjI0Mw==/?ref= ?
20:47  <@luxidream> it's too easy to misinput diagonal movement on a regular d-pad tbg
20:47  <@luxidream> *tbh
20:47  <@luxidream> and I don't know if using the analog stick is a good idea
20:47  <@luxidream> maybe on speedruns
20:50  <@luxidream> then again it could just be me. I can't play tekken or blazblue to save my life so
21:20  <@Dracunos> You don't need diagonal movement to win nethack
21:20  the trouble with most analog inputs (joysticks, gamepads, whatever) is that they track diagonal as being both up and down switched at the same time
21:21  so you really have to press/push it the right way to get both contacts at the same time
21:22  errr, up/down switched at the same time as left/right I mean
21:23  so to get diagonal up/right you need both those etc
21:26  I've had lots of fun tweaking joysticks on my arcade for games like streetfighter or schmups or whatever 
21:31  <@Tone> @IceBox What did you do on your turn? Did you cause it to erode before the tiger attacked?
21:33  <@Tone> Also could that l have degraded to an I or | ?
21:34  <@Tone> I don't know what that character degrades to offhand
21:34  <@luxidream> it's probably possible to beat nethack TAS without using the movement keys at all
21:38  <@luxidream> start a wizard with a wand of digging and scroll of teleportation
21:38  <@luxidream> teleport off the stairs
21:38  <@luxidream> dig until you fall onto a wand of wishing
21:41  <@Dracunos> Isn't that a conduct
21:47  <@lapis> you would have to do tons of rng manipulation, which you can only really do when next to a wall
21:47  <@lapis> and you would still technically need to hit the movement keys
21:50  [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 26472 points, T:974, killed by a gnome queen, while praying
21:52  [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Val Dwa Fem Law), 15105 points, T:7404, killed by a crow, while helpless
22:01  [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Orc Fem Cha), 324 points, T:791, killed by a bat
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22:03  [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 17528 points, T:560, killed by a vampire lord
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22:05  [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Orc Fem Cha), 225 points, T:502, killed by a fox
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22:12  [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Orc Fem Cha), 168 points, T:716, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted jackal
22:12  [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Orc Fem Cha), 6 points, T:45, killed by a fox
22:14  [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Orc Fem Cha), 129 points, T:177, killed by a jackal
22:17  [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Orc Fem Cha), 31 points, T:181, killed by a jackal
22:24  [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Orc Fem Cha), 368 points, T:690, killed by falling downstairs
22:26  [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Orc Fem Cha), 108 points, T:98, killed by a fox
22:26  <@lapis> oh hmm i forgot beholder was reporting all of those
22:26  <@lapis> how do i turn that off?
22:28  [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 22880 points, T:660, killed by a kobold, while praying
22:35  <@Tone> @lapis you can use the command !setmintc x
22:35  <@Tone> Where x is the minimum turns for Beholder to report a death
22:35  <@Tone> It might only work from IRC side though
22:36  <@lapis> !setmintc 1000
22:36  @lapis: Min reported turncount for @lapis set to 1000
22:36  <@lapis> cool, thank you
22:36  <@Tone> np
22:37  [hdf-us] [nh13d] rustmonster (Pri Mal), 386 points, T:754, imp
22:40  [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Orc Fem Cha), 282 points, T:885, killed by a fox
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22:41  [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Orc Fem Cha), 12 points, T:36, killed by a water moccasin
22:42  [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Orc Fem Cha), 42 points, T:93, killed by a water demon
22:43  <@lapis> that did not work lol
22:43  <@luxidream> @lapis you have to be in irc
22:43  <@luxidream> under the name lapis
22:44  <@lapis> issue is that lapis is already registered on freenode
22:44  <@luxidream> hm
22:44  <@luxidream> you can ask K2
22:45  <@luxidream> I think icebox had the same problem
22:45  <@luxidream> K2 had to set it for him
22:46  <@lapis> i'll try to remember to bug him when he gets back then
22:46  <@luxidream> you can !tell on discord side
22:47  <@lapis> ah right
22:48  <@lapis> !tell K2 can i get some help setting min reported turncount when you get back? lapis is taken on irc so i can't join there and do it properly
22:48  Will do, @lapis!
22:48  <@Tone> Tangles should be able to set it as well
22:49  <@Tone> Since K2 might be gone for a while
22:52  [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 37632 points, T:2029, killed by a dwarf
22:54  [hdf-us] [dnh] lapis (Con Orc Fem Cha), 366 points, T:537, crunched in the head by an iron ball
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23:09 <[Demo][srn]1> crunch crunch
23:09  @lapis: re annulus ring: The ring grants it's 2x damage even when wearing gloves
23:10  Just that iron/silver/(Obsidian-spiderweb) signet rings are blocked by wearing gloves
23:12  <@lapis> oh alright
23:19 <[Demo][srn]1> has anyone ever used annulus ring?
23:20  Once on a local run
23:20  [hdf-us] [nh361] LoadedDice (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 36104 points, T:10761, killed by a leocrotta
23:21  I'd imagine that a hld ana with premium heart and annulus ring w/ eurynome bound and wearing GM's robe would have stupidly high unarmed damage
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23:22 <[Demo][srn]1> not as good as binder
23:35  Miska's bonus attack round, I guess
23:36  <@lapis> The issue isn’t that the ring is bad, it’s that lightsabers are the best weapons in the game, and the annulus is the best lightsaber in the game
23:36  <@lapis> Well, the ring could be something bad, but still
23:46 <[Demo][srn]1> still not sure how i feel about hfd ana
23:47 <[Demo][srn]1> not as cool as most of the other races
23:53  <@lapis> yeah isnt their only thing starting with a shotgun?
23:56 <[Demo][srn]1> autoshotty
23:56 <[Demo][srn]1> Bronze somethings
23:57 <[Demo][srn]1> even ana sal is more interesting imo