00:02 !lastgame 00:02 aosdict: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dgoddard/nh361/dumplog/1530588345.nh361.txt 00:02 aosdict: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/s/stenno/sporkhack/dumplog/1530542899.sp.txt 00:02 aosdict: [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/M/Mishka/nh343/dumplog/1530409541.nh343.txt 00:02 seems like an arch-lich out of nowhere. either a chameleon or a polytrap 00:04 [hdf-us] [nh13d] rustmonster (Priest ### Mal ###) wished for "blessed spellbook of identify", on T:1393 00:07 [hdf-us] [nh13d] rustmonster (Pri Mal), 1538 points, T:1714, centaur 00:19 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) entered Gehennom, on T:73108 00:43 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed Juiblex, on T:74204 00:59 [hdf-us] [nh361] IceBox (Bar Orc Fem Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3481 01:02 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:75801 01:03 [hdf-us] [nh13d] rustmonster (Pri Mal), 50 points, T:15, gnome 01:03 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Baalzebub, on T:75814 01:05 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed Orcus, on T:75876 01:06 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:75948 01:06 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:75958 01:17 [hdf-us] [nh13d] rustmonster (Pri Mal), 2498 points, T:2163, blaze of fire 01:21 YANI: use one of the free level flag bits for fountains to represent a dried-up fountain, which could be rendered as a white/gray {. Water can be restored to a dry fountain by standing on it and ??? (reading scroll of water? praying? ritual spell? smashing a potion of water?) 01:25 -!- Tarmunora has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:28 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 01:28 -!- stenno is now known as Guest45108 01:32 -!- Guest45108 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:34 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:35 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 01:37 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:37 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 01:39 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:46 That's already in the YANI archive :P 01:54 aosdict: re your fountain refill idea: in Elona that can be done by dipping a potion into the fountain, which is used up in the process 01:54 LarienTelrunya: Message from @rikersan at 2018-07-02 13:46 EDT: why exactly did you propose to mandevil? aren't you gay anyway 01:55 !tell rikersan yes; something something cheering about the bitching bitch being kicked :P 01:55 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:06 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed Yeenoghu, on T:79336 02:08 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:79448 02:08 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:79453 02:08 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) performed the invocation, on T:79462 02:15 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:17 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:79714 02:17 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:79716 02:19 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:79748 02:24 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:80176 02:27 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:80407 02:39 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:81230 02:41 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:81439 02:42 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) entered the Planes, on T:81497 02:42 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:81499 02:42 aosdict: "Magic traps' taming effect is changed to pacification, due to petless conduct shenanigans." wtf, I would expect the majority of games to not be petless... penalizing all normal players because of some obscure conduct that no one plays? :P 02:52 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Death, on T:81876 02:54 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Death, on T:81928 02:56 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Death, on T:81960 02:56 "Option to make the confirmation letter "Y" instead of "y" so that you don't accidentally hit people when moving in the "y" direction." unnethack should implement that instead of the tedious yes/no :P 02:56 bhaak: ^^ 02:56 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Death, on T:81975 02:57 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Death, on T:81990 02:59 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Death, on T:82035 03:00 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Death, on T:82051 03:00 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Death, on T:82069 03:01 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 4920586 points, T:82084, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/h/hypnotist/nh361/dumplog/1530301103.nh361.txt 03:02 !asc hypnotist 03:02 nooodle: [hdf-us] hypnotist has ascended 18 times in 43 games (41.86%): nh361:18 (45.00%) 03:02 congratulations nooodle! go team nymphets! :D 03:03 ty. :) yeah, if only i were faster 03:07 LarienTelrunya: what about "chat with peaceful when moving into them"? 03:07 bhaak: that causes you to lose a turn, which can be deadly if you're chased by a soldier ant and the watchman walks into your fleeing path 03:08 I wouldn't implement it as losing a turn :-) 03:08 ah 03:08 well, it's implemented in dnethack and Nethack Fourk, but you do lose a turn there 03:08 chatting is in almost all cases a simple text flavor thing in nethack 03:09 I can't think of a reason it should cost a turn. 03:10 [hdf-us] [dnh] monstergrin (Ana Elf Fem Cha) killed Croesus, on T:41497 03:11 the only thing I could think of would be that this might be a way of extracting the RNG state. but using a proper RNG is the solution for that anyway 03:19 -!- nooodle has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:32 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:32 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 03:35 "Fire vortices uniquely among whirly engulfers don't make your lamp go out when they engulf you; they keep it ignited." might add "and turn it on if it is currently unlit" 03:36 that'll be annoying if you have like six separate candle stacks 04:01 LarienTelrunya: but shouldn't ot then also should deal fire damage as every other fire emitting thing? burning scrolls, boiling potions, burning armor, etc.? 04:02 bhaak: it probably should 04:03 I wouldn't call it stupid, it would be a change for more realism. 04:04 but NHINRL and it depends if you agree to "realism > gameplay" or "gameplay > realism" :) 04:04 heh, if you want realism, many things that can currently be survived should probably be deadly 04:04 e.g. monsters with sufficiently sharp swords would be able to decapitate you, even if the sword is not vorpal 04:05 Evil Patch idea: monsters with katanas have a chance of decapitating you on a hit. 04:05 that's not real realism, that's hollywood realism :-p 04:41 -!- Anerag has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00 -!- Anerag has joined #hardfought 05:06 -!- Anerag has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:06 -!- Anerag has joined #hardfought 05:29 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:30 -!- Anerag has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.x-git-37-ad7e447b - https://znc.in] 05:39 -!- Anerag has joined #hardfought 05:40 -!- nooodle has joined #hardfought 05:46 -!- Borto has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:23 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [*.net *.split] 06:23 -!- hothraxxa has quit [*.net *.split] 06:28 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 06:51 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:02 "Option to make the confirmation letter "Y" instead of "y" so that you don't accidentally hit people when moving in the "y" direction." unnethack should implement that instead of the tedious yes/no :P 07:02 Doesn't slex use 'yes' confirmation 07:03 but not in those places that drive LarienTelrunya mad :-D 07:09 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:53 !tell LarienTelrunya I've heard one too many complaints from people who unintentionally broke polyselfless conduct to want to start up new complaints about unwanted taming. especially since there's no way to prevent that effect. 07:53 Will do, aosdict! 07:55 FR: NetHack breaks the assumption "you don't chose a cat, cats chose you" 07:59 imagine Webmant or someone trying to play a seriously petless game, getting to asmodeus and then bang oops I hit an undetected magic trap while next to a monster. Better start aaaaaalll over. 08:00 !tell LarienTelrunya also, disadvantaging, ha. you have plenty of other nerfs to complain about in xnethack besides a marginal side effect like this 08:00 Will do, aosdict! 08:43 -!- hothraxxa has joined #hardfought 08:43 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v hothraxxa] by ChanServ 08:51 [hdf-us] [nh4] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law), 30934 points, T:2171, poisoned by a killer bee 08:54 -!- deadnoob_ has joined #hardfought 08:59 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:59 [hdf-us] [nh361] samiam (Sam Hum Mal Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:13847 09:22 !tell lorimer thanks for the info. and I fixed the demonbane 1st sac gift for priest bit 09:22 K2: Message from AntiGulp at 2018-07-02 23:12 EDT: Doors are not supposed to be gray, that actually looks like it was an issue in the patch I used. Fixed it. 09:22 Will do, K2! 09:24 SpliceHack updated (all servers) 09:31 !tell ais523 this is a response to your reddit comment: if one did implement the most ascs in 24 hours trophy as requiring both start and end to be within the 24 hour period, there would probably be complaining among players who can ascend reliably but not fast. Maybe the window would have to be expanded to 72 hours or something. 09:31 Will do, aosdict! 09:36 -!- nooodle has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:48 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 09:48 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 09:55 -!- nooodle has joined #hardfought 10:06 <@Tone> I don't think that would be a very popular trophy 10:10 72 hours would be feasible for most people, yes 10:10 -!- remirol has joined #hardfought 10:10 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11 raisse: You sure like playing under pressure. 10:11 3 days means that if something interrupts me IRL, I might not make it. 10:11 no, I strongly *dis*like playing under pressure, and 3 days means that for me too but it's about 100 times more likely that I'll make it in 3 days than in 1 day 10:14 <@escargott'em> I still think people who are the worst at the game should get the most points, it's unfair to us bad players 10:14 <@Tone> I meant that the 24 hour one probably wouldn't be popular 10:19 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1] 10:28 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:30 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Cav Dwa Fem Law) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:10054 10:35 <@escargott'em> That announcement seems unnecessary :p 10:36 -!- Guest45108 has joined #hardfought 10:46 [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 11373 points, T:13078, killed by an owlbear 11:02 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 11:02 <@IceBox> yeah there's no way i could do a 24 hour asc, but i could definitely contribute to a 72 hour time limit 11:06 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 11:10 YAN(S)I: Clothing can be layered, but doing so causes penalties to dexterity. 11:14 YASI: You can set your character's gender as nonbinary, but this doesn't do anything except make you ineligible for both the male egg-hatching benefit and the female egg-laying benefit. 11:15 Strangely enough, I’ve been trying for a while to add a nonbinary gender option, but adding additional gender options always seems to cause a lot of bugs. 11:19 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 11:21 -!- Guest45108 has quit [Changing host] 11:21 -!- Guest45108 has joined #hardfought 11:21 -!- Guest45108 is now known as stenno 11:21 does somebody know if the spork patches that k2 installed yesterday are already rolled out on the server? 11:22 can't you check with the v command/ 11:23 yes but that woudl require me to start a new game in the first place :P 11:23 ok fine I'll start one 11:24 naah 11:24 Unix SporkHack Version 0.6.5 (git 2b13f8f) - last build Mon Jul 2 16:36:28 2018. 11:24 is that UTC? 11:24 lol 11:24 oh wait i guess you login to the US server 11:24 that should be correct then 11:24 hdf-us yes 11:25 right, that should be the one then 11:25 -!- nooodle has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:27 <@Tone> Time to throw things at iron bars 11:27 lol 11:31 <@rikersan> braces 11:31 @rikersan: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-07-03 01:55 EDT: yes; something something cheering about the bitching bitch being kicked :P 11:32 oh good, xnethack introducing glass stuff that could shatter didn't cause any crashes when hitting iron bars 11:33 because its fixed in 3.6.1 11:42 -!- nooodle has joined #hardfought 11:43 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:48 i think i will change my wishing strat 11:48 going mkot before gauntlets of force 11:49 <@rikersan> what do those gauntlets do? 11:49 <@rikersan> knockback on hit? 11:51 <[Demo][srn]1> stunning blow 11:51 <[Demo][srn]1> always 11:51 <@rikersan> huh 11:51 <[Demo][srn]1> fist jousting 11:51 knockback too 11:53 <[Demo][srn]1> it's just fist jousting 11:54 does jousting have knockback? 11:54 <[Demo][srn]1> yes 11:55 <[Demo][srn]1> jousting does extra dmg tho, don't think staggering blows do 11:55 oh the normal stunning blow does knockback too 11:55 but in spork it can be more that one square 11:56 thats funny with phasing monsters like ghosts, you punch them out of the room and into the walls usually 11:57 <[Demo][srn]1> Yeah dnh has that with some things and it is amusing 11:58 oh i remember the first artiweapon i got in dnh 11:58 some sword that does knockback and makes enemies explode lol 11:59 <@rikersan> tobiume 11:59 <[Demo][srn]1> tobiume probably 11:59 <[Demo][srn]1> yeah 11:59 <@rikersan> it's garbage but funny 11:59 <@rikersan> i'ts kinda sad how garbage it is tbh 11:59 stunning blow on each hit is nice, but does spork fix the problem of monster stun not really doing all that much 11:59 <@rikersan> I'd love to see that merged into fire brand and then frost brand get maybe sode's stuff 11:59 <[Demo][srn]1> Yeah it's a shit weapon 12:00 <@rikersan> ^^ demo what do you think of that 12:00 its super strong in spork 12:00 <[Demo][srn]1> Yeah fire and frost brand are pretty bad in dnh 12:00 <[Demo][srn]1> are they unchanged? 12:00 you can just punch monsters into a corner and then repeatedly punch them 12:00 and they can't do shit 12:01 <@rikersan> yes I think demo 12:01 <@rikersan> yep still the same 12:01 oh apparently enchanting gloves adds the enchantment to the damage 12:01 flat 12:01 <[Demo][srn]1> remove frost and firebrand then 12:01 <[Demo][srn]1> and merge their one unique feature into those two 12:01 <@rikersan> yeah 12:01 <[Demo][srn]1> might do that in ndnh 12:02 <@rikersan> !tell Chris_ANG idea: remove frost/fire brand, and give the 2x damages to tobiume and sode no shirayuki? Demo's idea 12:02 Will do, @rikersan! 12:02 wot 12:02 /* Red make Zog MAD! Zog hit harder. */ 12:03 if (uarm && (uarm->otyp == RED_DRAGON_SCALE_MAIL || uarm->otyp == RED_DRAGON_SCALES)) { 12:03 tmp += rnd(6); 12:03 }y 12:03 <@rikersan> who is zog 12:03 apparently the player, when they wear red dsm 12:03 oh right DSM has bonuses in spork 12:03 <@rikersan> ok 12:03 <[Demo][srn]1> wtf is spork 12:04 <@rikersan> ndnh's spiritual precessor? 12:04 <@rikersan> *predecessor 12:05 <[Demo][srn]1> no I hate spork 12:06 <[Demo][srn]1> Oh wait 12:06 <[Demo][srn]1> I hate ndnh too 12:07 -!- Tarmunora has joined #hardfought 12:07 <@rikersan> oh shit.jpg 12:07 -!- Tarmunora has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:08 -!- Tarmunora has joined #hardfought 12:09 <@luxidream> Hey that’s better than FIQs red DSM 12:09 <[Demo][srn]1> what does his do? 12:09 <@luxidream> Someone get him on this 12:09 <[Demo][srn]1> fire immunity is strong 12:09 <@luxidream> infravision warning see invis 12:09 <@luxidream> pretty trash 12:10 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Cav Dwa Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:15452 12:10 <[Demo][srn]1> infra vision is rad 12:10 <@luxidream> it’s bad compared to blue and orange dsm 12:10 <@luxidream> speed and free action 12:11 <@luxidream> damage boost would give it a niche at least 12:11 <@rikersan> it should at least grant slime protection 12:12 <@rikersan> that's what it odes in dnh 12:15 GithuI just wasted an entire 20 minutes of my life trying to search for a commit in the splicehack repo on github before GH informed me you can't search in forked repos 12:16 PavelB yeah, I also found that out the hard way. What commit are you looking for? 12:16 I already found it (locally). I'm trying to port trees to xnh. 12:17 <@rikersan> git clone and grep are your friends 12:17 <@rikersan> also, that should go away (the no search thing) once enough commits are made 12:17 <@rikersan> since I konw slex is searchable despite being forked from slashem 12:17 `git log --all --grep='Tree'` 12:17 `git show d6ea9dc8c333e19de3ede3b591d471f0908a8b04` 12:18 @rikersan that menas forked from a github repo. Obviously all the variants are some kind of fork. 12:18 <@rikersan> no I know 12:18 <@rikersan> I know there's a slex repo forked form something 12:18 <@Tone> Slime protection makes sense, that's a neat feature 12:19 <@rikersan> huh apparently not 12:20 on github SlashEM-Extended/SlashEM-Extended is not a fork 12:20 I joy I just realized I only have the Windows machine I use for work with me 12:20 Time to install WSL I guess 12:22 AntiGulp: btw the mktree function comment still says /* Put a furnace at m.x, m.y */ 12:22 <@escargott'em> Yeah you have to clone it and search yourself, it's weird 12:22 I should reeaaaaaally refactor mktree. 12:23 <@escargott'em> I mean you don't even need to designate your repo as a fork in github, it seems so arbitrary to not allow searching 12:23 Wow. WSL installs a lot faster than I remember. 12:23 AntiGulp: refactor? how? 12:23 it's a pretty minimal function 12:24 Maybe not refactor, but at least review. I copied a lot of it from mkfurnace when I didn’t have as good an understanding of the code as I do now, and I want to check it. 12:25 If it says `if(!rn2(30)) mktree`, does that mean 1 in 30 rooms will have a tree or 1 in 30 floor tiles? 12:26 PavelB: That depends on where that is invoked and what mktree() does 12:27 AntiGulp: hm one refactor I can think of is merging mkfountain, mksink, mktree etc into one function and just pass the terrain as a second argument, since they have incredibly similar logic 12:27 Well, there's only one place where it has that and AntiGulp should know what it does 12:27 lemme open up my copy 12:27 PavelB: this is inside a for loop iterating over each room on the level. so each room has a 1/30 chance for 1 tree in it. 12:28 What aosdict said. Loops through rooms, so 1/30 rooms. 12:28 `Retrieving: git-2.17.1-1.3.x86_64.rpm ........ [not found]` 12:28 go home openSUSE you're drunk 12:28 AntiGulp: actually I already did that refactor, I merged them into mkfeature 12:28 how is git not a package 12:29 DNS problems? 12:29 I might steal that code, it’s bothered me how they’re all split up into practically identical functions 12:29 also suse lol 12:29 WSL doesn't give me a lot of options ok 12:30 It was either Suse or Debian, and I can't stand Debian. All the packages are like *years* behind. 12:30 then.. use different repositories? 12:30 unstable and the like 12:30 `Program 'git' is present in package 'git-core'` 12:30 but why tho 12:30 could even just use the ubuntu repos 12:31 Suse is rpm based 12:31 ew 12:31 I could use the fedora repos I suppose 12:31 i had my problems with centos 12:31 That's because centos is crap 12:31 Their repos don't even have python 3 yet 12:31 AntiGulp: d2e73aaa 12:32 depends on which repos you use 12:32 thanks 12:32 of course you would need to add in trees and furnaces 12:32 for example, centos repos have... git 12:33 There should be able to be more than one tree per room 12:33 Limiting it to one is a bit silly 12:33 They do tend to grow next to each other 12:33 :P 12:34 They also tend to grow in sunlight so perhaps analysis from real-world biology is not a useful guide here 12:34 There should still be more trees 12:34 optimally most trees do not grow right next to each other, they would crowd each other out 12:34 Ok, screw this, I'm installing Debian. suse wsl is horribly, horribly broken. 12:35 might want to look at unnethack level generator 12:35 Oh hey, they have Kali linux too. (Not that I'm going to use Kali) 12:37 -!- winny has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1] 12:38 PavelB: You can look into the dungeon growth patch on bilious. I didn’t implement it for various reasons, but it does have some interesting stuff relating to tree growth. 12:39 Wait, "bilious"? I'm pretty sure that word has something to do with vomiting. 12:40 -!- winny has joined #hardfought 12:41 …apparently the nethack patch database is rather unfortunately named 12:43 Wow, no one seems to be writing 3.6 patches 12:45 Yeah. I implement stuff from there fairly regularly, and it’s always a lot of work updating everything to be 3.6 compatible. 12:47 bilious has to do with bile 12:47 PavelB: ... AntiGulp and I are writing 3.6 patches 12:47 we're like the main authors of them 12:48 and Tangles 12:48 I should really seperate some of my code and put it on the database 12:48 Well obviously, of the several hundred patches on the db only 3 support 3.6 12:49 I'm gonna give up on WSL for now and try to make my own tree patch later 12:50 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: explodes into confetti] 12:53 I suppose eventually I should separate out the object materials stuff and patchify it. That's one reason why it's still its own branch. 12:58 PavelB: also, early in my nethack programming, waaay before xnethack was a thing, I made a patch and submitted it to bilious... nothing happened and it never got posted and I never heard anything back. 12:59 Oh that sucks. What did it do? 13:00 it was an attempt to port some Oz lore by making gnomes terrified of eggs 13:00 Hah 13:01 https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=6505 13:01 I doubt I'll add it to xnethack now, it seemed a bit too slash'em-y 13:01 Well those timing seem way off 13:02 Don't lots of people spend, like, decades trying to win? 13:02 9h doesn't seem too bad 13:03 I mean, yeah, once you're already super good and have dedicated a large portion of your life to it, it's somewhat reasonable. 13:03 this is surprising, no data https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=161 (abuse, and old good bungie game) 13:03 oops, not bungie? 13:03 PavelB: Surely it is self-evident that the time is for a single win, not to get to the point of getting a single win. 13:04 I don't think that's the point of howlongtobeat.com 13:04 to be fair howlongtobeat doesn't really clarify 13:04 I'm more curious about how they decided what "Main+Extras" is and how it's different from extinctionist Completionist (not very, I guess?) 13:05 The point is to know how much of a time commitment a game will requires so that you can make informed decisions about what games to play. 13:05 nethack is also different from a lot of other non-roguelikes in that even if you have total information about the game you're still going to need to develop some skill to be able to win. 13:05 PavelB: A brief glance at other games suggests that none of the submitters of times think that. 13:05 which could take any amount of time. 13:06 Pinkbeast: IDK, I've used it a *bit*, I just cleared Xenoblade Chronicles 2 for the first time recently (amazing game btw) and it took me roughly as long as the site led me to expect. 13:07 there are a lot of datapoints that seem accurate, but nethack seems like a stupidly difficult game to fit into those datapoints and not look outrageous 13:07 PavelB: Did you have to practice to clear it, though? For a game where your first playthrough tends to be to the end with perhaps minimal loss of time to restoring saves, the distinction doesn't arise. 13:07 But when I look at games one _does_ have to practice, I tend to find the time is one playthrough, not "learning time plus one playthrough" 13:08 oh boy 13:08 i have FF XIII and it says here it takes 50 hours to finish the game 13:08 i don't think i'll ever finish that game 13:08 XC2 isn't exactly the *hardest* game, that's true. 13:09 aosdict: I'm still trying to figure out what the strategy to nethack is. Like, even if I startscum to get early wishes from fountains to get good loot early, I still can't seem to get very far, and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. 13:10 man this website is crap, i can't share links to searches because it's all done via AJAX without any url slugs 13:10 well startscumming for early wishes means you're not really learning how to survive in the early game 13:10 Also, play to win _this_ game, not _a_ game - startscumming is useless in that context 13:11 I don't do it all the time, but what I meant was that even if I do, it doesn't actually get me any farther. 13:11 PavelB: Play a dwarven Valk. Dip for Excalibur about as soon as possible. Pet-test all the armour in the mines. Read all the spoilers, and maybe look at the wiki if you like. Profit. 13:11 I do. 13:11 I really do. 13:12 But I always get near the end of the quest and get completely destroyed by several gazzilion enemies mobbing me at once regardless of what equipment I got 13:12 Try scaring them with scare monster or a horn or Elbereth? 13:12 The quest? Ants and giants? A dwarven valk should steamroller those, especially since it's entirely made of choke points. 13:12 Can you link some recent deaths of the type you're talking about? 13:13 PavelB: apparently XC2 is 70 hours? 13:13 Took me around 90 but I did a bunch of sideqeusts 13:13 dang, that's some dedication 13:14 Pinkbeast: I play locally a lot. I mostly find myself playing at school, where the firewall blocks ssh connections. I don't know if I have any deaths at the quest on hdf. 13:15 winny: The gameplay is, well, boring, but I really liked the story and characters, I had to see how it ends. 13:16 Now that the school year is over I suppose I should start playing on hdf more 13:16 Well, if you can produce a dump we'll look at it and if you can't, well, it's a mystery to me how a spoiled player can die on the valk quest to anything but a drawbridge, to be honest. 13:16 (or hilarious typo death, yes) 13:16 i remember my first quest as valk i got the artifacts no problem 13:16 I think I've dies to an invisible Lord Surtur at least a couple times 13:17 but i thought i was in far-look, but instead i moved my toon into lava 13:17 i think i had a teleport scroll but it burned up instantly 13:17 i think i had escape items that would have saved me, but didn't really think it over 13:18 Surtur gets 2d10, 2d10, 2d6; with decent AC that just shouldn't be an issue. (And he respects Elbereth, if you're an Elbereth-user...) 13:18 for 50 turns i was stick in the ground because i hada frost wand, so i dug myself out, and fell into lava again, at least twice because i was at a loss what to do 13:18 Gah, I *always* forget E is a thing as soon as I need to save my life 13:19 tbh not a big fan of elbereth unless im playing a weaker role 13:19 winny: I never use it under any circumstances, personally. 13:19 <[Demo][srn]1> how safe is hiking in the heat in the mountains and drinking? 13:19 i find it sort of hard to use right honestly 13:19 drinking... alcohol? not very safe 13:20 <@escargott'em> I've never used Elbereth 13:20 [Demo][srn]1: sounds bad, because you'll be perspiring, and alcohol will dehydrate you further, and you will be away from civilization if anything bad were to happen to anybody in your group 13:20 <[Demo][srn]1> ok 13:20 <@escargott'em> If I did I would burn it with a wand probably 13:21 <[Demo][srn]1> it sounds like a bad combination on paper but im not sure about practice 13:21 [Demo][srn]1: I recently read that if you drink cold water, it'll "trick" your body into thinking it's colder than it really is, so you'll sweat less and overheat faster, so it's better to drink warm water. Idk if that's true or not. 13:21 I mean, a dwarvish mithril-coat and the starting shield alone gets you to AC 0, a few accessories should easily get you to -5 or so (and this is with all your gear except the shield +0), this is bouncing half of those 2d10s... 13:22 While I wouldn't recommend the combination, drinking weaker alcoholic drinks like beer does not dehydrate you overall. 13:22 <@escargott'em> I know people who hike and do really active stuff and they drink a lot.. But they are young and used to it 13:22 <@escargott'em> Most likely you won't die or anything, you might just not have a good time if you are dehydrated 13:22 <[Demo][srn]1> im in the age range where i should be able to survive most not too bad decisions 13:22 <@escargott'em> It's really hard to stay properly hydrated unless you exercise regularly 13:23 Wouldn't recommend> also, I mean, I dunno if this is a little walk on a quiet forest trail with a few beers (fine) or scrambling up some rocky slope in the middle of nowhere while slugging rum (probably not fine) 13:23 <[Demo][srn]1> ah 13:23 tbh i wouldn't unless you're an experienced hiker 13:23 or if you get drunk when camping that's a lil different 13:23 <@escargott'em> Just bring a blunt instead :D 13:23 yeah i second the blunt 13:24 <[Demo][srn]1> yeah ok net fun seems like it would go down if i dehydration was an issue 13:24 <[Demo][srn]1> thanks 13:24 [Demo][srn]1: Again, drinking beer does not produce net dehydration - just less effective than water. 13:24 Don't drink tea or coffee either. 13:24 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:24 <@escargott'em> Supposedly studies show that coffee hydrates you more than it dehydrates you 13:25 Same goes for ordinary coffee, yes. 13:25 i'm a big fan of getting drunk in safe environments, that is for example if ur underage don't goto parties, just drink with trusted friends, yadda; or otherwise drink not in public because bars are weird 13:25 Don't drink *strong* tea or coffee, sorry. 13:25 Pinkbeast: The length of the hike in hours is probably more relevant than its strenuousness. 13:25 winny: If you're underage, don't drink. At all. 13:25 wisconsin 13:25 <@escargott'em> Yeah, if you're under 21 don't drink, or you will have serious problems 13:26 PavelB: Eh, won't do 'em any harm, particularly in countries with a silly drinking age like 21 13:26 <@escargott'em> Unless you're in a place where legal age is 18, then change that to 18 13:26 im not underage fwiw, just saying everybody here drinks too much, esp underage 13:26 escargott: ha! :-) 13:26 it's not uncommon for families to let their kids drink under supervision 13:26 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1] 13:27 <@escargott'em> It's a good way to keep kids off beer, worked for me, I still hate the taste of beer 13:27 don't really think it's a good idea but `wisconsin' 13:27 winny: everybody here = wisconsin, or #hardfought? 13:27 <@escargott'em> A sip of champagne never hurt anyone 13:27 no im just saying they're ridiculous here 13:27 <[Demo][srn]1> wisconsin sounds boring as hell 13:27 <[Demo][srn]1> not sure what else there would be to do there but drink :P 13:27 u wouldn't be wrong 13:27 [Demo][srn]1: eat cheese? :D 13:28 <@escargott'em> Everyone loves cheese 13:28 There's also the problem of potentially being arrested 13:28 Which would definitely suck 13:28 <@escargott'em> They only have cheddar there though 13:28 get DUIs that don't mean much until your third count (`wisconsin') 13:28 it's the single most popular cheese in the world! 13:28 <[Demo][srn]1> i met some people from wisconsin the other day and told them they sounded like canadians 13:28 ahahaha did they smile 13:28 winny: DUI is one thing, underage DUI is another. 13:28 <[Demo][srn]1> yeah they did 13:28 unlike alcohol, cheese is entirely legal to bring on hikes regardless of age 13:28 ^ i like that idea 13:29 <@escargott'em> Cheese is actually really great for jokes 13:29 <@escargott'em> Hikes 13:29 wait... alcoholic. cheese. 13:29 But jokes also. 13:29 PavelB: Eh? Seems to me in both cases the problem there is drunk driving, not the age of the idiot. 13:29 <@escargott'em> Full of protein and sugar and stuff.. It just tastes bad when it warms up 13:29 <[Demo][srn]1> if wisconsin hasnt invented that yet then im sure france has 13:29 <@escargott'em> Well there's wine cheese 13:29 @escargott'em I assume you've seen Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch. 13:29 <@escargott'em> But that's mostly for flavor 13:29 <@escargott'em> I don't recall that 13:30 <@escargott'em> Not at a convenient place to watch a clip anyway 13:30 YAI: cheese 13:30 If you get a DUI while under the drinking age your license is instantly supended for a year or until you're 21, whichever is sooner, iirc. 13:30 <[Demo][srn]1> just dont DUI? 13:30 Pity it's not forever, but so? 13:30 <@escargott'em> Convenient enough to play nethack on my phone at work but not convenient enough to watch a short video :D 13:30 [Demo][srn]1: basically yes, that's the only true solution 13:31 -!- Tarmunora has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31 -!- Tarmunora has joined #hardfought 13:31 If you're not 21 there's plenty of stuff you can drink at parties that isn't alcoholic. Better safe than sorry, IMO. 13:32 * PavelB is surrounded by empty root beer cans 13:33 Only in America would anyone think it makes sense to be able to die for your country but not have a pint beforehand. 13:33 <[Demo][srn]1> at least prohibition ended 13:34 <@escargott'em> Yeah only in America.. And a bunch of other countries 13:35 If I somehow get drafted into the army I will do everything I can to get kicked out as soon as possible. 13:35 <[Demo][srn]1> it used to be easy to get kicked out 13:35 <@escargott'em> They don't really kick you out anymore 13:35 right, we still have obligation to civil service if the draft is reinstated 13:35 I can just not get out of bed in the morning 13:35 PavelB: Easier in the good old days when all you had to do was smooch a boy/girl as appropriate # FTAOD I don't actually think the prohibition was good 13:36 What are they gonna do 13:36 <@escargott'em> Well, there are a couple things you can do to get kicked out, but it's much harder, they will put you in jail before they kick you out for most stuff 13:36 Better than fighting a war 13:36 Jail you and eventually shoot you? 13:36 <@escargott'em> Like not getting out of bed, they will literally imprison you 13:37 Pinkbeast: You don't get capital punishment for being a lazy fuck 13:37 <@escargott'em> It's easy to get kicked out with like a dishonorable discharge though, but that messes up other career options in the future 13:37 <[Demo][srn]1> id roll with a draft 13:37 Again, better than fighting in a war 13:38 <[Demo][srn]1> just play along until u meet someone that can get u doing tech shit for them or whatever 13:38 <@escargott'em> Your best option is to study for the test and pick a non combat job in the air force 13:38 i'd just go live in UK since i have citizenship of both 13:38 I suppose I could go live in Russia 13:38 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 13:38 if they do anything too dickish to get me i can always renounce citizenship, but rather not ever do that 13:38 Wait no I forgot 13:38 They have mandatory service 13:39 <[Demo][srn]1> just break ur legs 13:39 Tech shit> I remember seeing Joe Haldeman at the '05 Worldcon explaining that when he was drafted for Vietnam, he expected, having a mathematical background, to end up counting boots in a quartermaster's office, or something. 13:39 <[Demo][srn]1> then ur not fit for combat 13:39 I literally can't go to Russia for the next couple decades 13:39 Instead he was sent into the field to do demolitions, because doing demolitions with Vietnam-era technology demands that you can do linear algebra in your head while people are shooting at you, and this is a rare skill. 13:39 He was not overcome with joy. 13:40 <[Demo][srn]1> haha 13:40 There are draft exemptions in the US for students iirc so as long as I stay in Uni I should be safe for a while 13:40 <[Demo][srn]1> i think a draft would be pretty funny 13:41 <[Demo][srn]1> just the cultural impact would be amusing 13:41 <[Demo][srn]1> a comedic amount of chaos 13:41 <@escargott'em> One thing that I learned that makes sense is the draft actually ends up pushing more anti war 13:41