00:14 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:14 [hdf-us] [fh] ahrimen (Val Dwa Fem Law) let an Uruk-hai genocide elf mummies, on T:10911 00:20 [hdf-us] [un] picaresquieu (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 16540 points, T:11162, killed by a gargoyle 00:26 -!- picaresquieu has joined #hardfought 00:26 God fucking dammit 00:32 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 00:34 YANI: Swap the order of Zoo checks in mklev, so that room types which can only appear deeper in the dungeon take precedence over room types which can appear at shallower levels. 00:35 what would be the effects, more swamps? 00:35 and cock nests 00:35 -!- stenno\ito has joined #hardfought 00:39 I thought I had played enough nethack to know what futility is 00:39 Then i spent an hour chasing Aphrodite around the level 00:39 <@lapis/ootc> does maintaining a spell like protection depend on the fail rate, or something else? 00:40 -!- stenno\ito has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:45 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:45 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 00:45 le 00:50 Swamps are actually checked for before everything else, so those would stay the same. 00:52 -!- QueenDairy has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.1] 00:52 But yeah, the winners are cockatrice nests, barracks, antholes, and morgues, in that order. 00:52 Next thing after morgue is beehives, which don't seem particularly rare under the current system. 00:53 l halls and treasure zoos would become rarer after the early game. 00:55 more barracks would be nice 00:56 it's too hard to get bugles normally, and it'd be nice to have a couple of extra pairs of gloves for shots at +1/+2 01:05 [hdf-us] [nh13d] rustmonster (Pri Mal), 618 points, T:776, dead homunculus 01:06 [hdf-us] [nh13d] rustmonster (Pri Mal), 59 points, T:87, imp 01:06 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:08 [hdf-us] [nh13d] rustmonster (Pri Mal), 190 points, T:332, orc 01:11 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 01:13 -!- greqrg has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:15 [hdf-us] [un] richards (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed fireproof +2 T-shirt", on T:74820 01:21 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:22 * oh6 reads discussion of gehennom levels in backscroll 01:24 hmm, a 1-level gehennom with a 95% chance of getting mysterious forced back 01:24 or a 1-level gehennom where if you don't get to the upstair in 100 turns it re-generates the maze and teleports you to the invocation square 01:24 <@lapis/ootc> okay... i have a stack of 2 waters and 7 waters that absolutely refuse to combine... does anyone know how to deal with that? 01:26 you know if these stacks are blessed or cursed or uncursed? 01:26 <@lapis/ootc> both uncursed, standing on an altar 01:27 <@lapis/ootc> i just diluted them 01:27 is this vanilla or some variant? 01:27 <@lapis/ootc> dnh 01:29 hm, not too familiar with dnh unfortunately 01:30 <@lapis/ootc> i don't think there would be any reason why it would intentionally be like that 01:30 <@lapis/ootc> i've dropped them, adjusted them, put them in and out of a bag... 01:32 how about identifying them? 01:32 I mean if you have the spell 01:32 <@lapis/ootc> i think they're both fully ID'd, i have some scrolls but needed to bless them first 01:32 <@lapis/ootc> which is why i wanted a full stack of water 01:33 I've had this come up with cockatrice eggs - the ones I'd identified wouldn't stack with the one's I'd just dropped on an altar 01:34 ugh what is up my with apostrophes this morning 01:34 <@lapis/ootc> huh. well, i suppose i'll just bless the big stack and wait until the next round of holy water making to deal with those two 01:42 [hdf-us] [un] richards (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Yeenoghu, on T:75412 01:45 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:45 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 01:46 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:59 -!- picaresquieu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:14 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:28 [hdf-us] [dyn] Hoppet (hoppet) (Val Dwa Fem Law), 870 points, T:3068, killed by a rope golem 02:34 -!- elenmirie\splat has joined #hardfought 02:45 -!- stenno\ito has joined #hardfought 03:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] monstergrin (Ana Elf Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed +2 Stormhelm", on T:13872 03:09 -!- stenno\ito has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:15 -!- AmyBSOD\srn has joined #hardfought 03:17 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Suddenly, Raisse disappears out of sight.] 03:17 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 03:17 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 03:19 aosdict\ito: slex actually adds things with concern to balance; if I added something unbalanced, please tell me what particular feature you perceive as unbalanced and I'll look into it ;) 03:22 also re the splicehack void: if I were the maintainer, instead of removing it I'd try to make the branch actually interesting, I suggested several times that there should be a reward for clearing it :D 03:24 !tell AntiGulp saw your message in the backscroll; I never doubted that you have a method for your additions/removals, but the problem with the void is not that it kills the player character, the problem is IMHO that it kills the player character without giving any meaningful reward for those who do brave it and kill the void dragon. With the current implementation it's just a zone where you go if you want to die. 03:24 Will do, AmyBSOD\srn! 03:28 !tell AntiGulp also I second your notion that Gehennom is way too long, one could cut the # of boring maze filler levels in half and nothing would be lost. But I'd advise you to take a look at SLEX's Gehennom where not only do other types of levels exist, mazes.des also has more interesting mazes with special rooms and stuff :) 03:28 Will do, AmyBSOD\srn! 03:51 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 04:08 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:25 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:26 Yay, slex made an invisible magic portal in my game. Now I have to remember where it is. 05:28 YASI: if you offer a cockatrice corpse, your deity may turn to stone and become unresponsive. 05:37 -!- stenno\ito has joined #hardfought 06:15 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:24 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1] 06:31 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 06:59 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 06:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 07:01 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought 07:06 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:06 -!- AmyBSOD\srn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:11 aosdict\ito: There are examples of female knights and barbarians in the lore, though. A few. 08:28 Does the library replace the castle completely in fourk, or is it random which one you get? 09:12 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 09:46 AmyBSOD\srn: To retread ground a bit, I consider anything that randomly kills you or ruins your game, no matter how low the probability, to be unbalanced. But I'm aware that our disagreement here stems from different definitions of good balance. 09:46 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:52 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 09:54 * Chris_ANG just noticed the conversation from last night.... 09:55 oh6, lapis/ootc: It is likely you are dealing with theft tracking. 09:58 Dropping them and picking them up in a shop should make both the same, as would an identify spell. 09:59 (You don't have to sell them, just get a price from a shopkeeper) 09:59 [hdf-us] [4k] hothraxxa (Val Hum Fem Neu) wished for "uncursed historic greased lit magic marker named banksy", on T:41062 09:59 Chris_ANG: re pet stores, assuming blessed figurines are a 100% chance of getting a tame monster, that seems like a more sensible thing to do than trying to actually implement real monster selling. 10:00 figurines should cost 50*monster level or something 10:00 flagging as YANI: ^ 10:00 so you don't get a pet titan for the same price of a tame newt 10:00 *the same price as 10:01 but all unidentified figurines should *sell* as if they're level 1, like gems and glass 10:01 (If you had live random monsters in a shop, it would also probably be hard just to keep them contained - the shop generates, and immediately the rock mole eats its way through the wall, the xorn phases away, the snake slithers through the iron bars, and the gelatinous cube dissolves the iron bars freeing everyone else) 10:01 Can't you always tell what a figurine is of? 10:02 drat, you're right 10:02 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 40936 points, T:4344, killed by an elf zombie 10:02 even if blind, yes 10:02 well, then all figurines should sell as if they're level 1 regardless 10:02 why? a figurine of a titan *should* sell for more than a figurine of a new 10:02 newt 10:03 to buy in the shop yes, for the shop to buy from you not necessarily 10:03 aosdict\ito: Yeah, I was thinking either off a menu or via a new container. However, 10:03 the new container approach would hardly be foolproof, 10:03 and the menu approach is really just as weird as the shop having a bunch of figurines. 10:03 [hdf-us] [nh361] Borto (Hea Hum Fem Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a water nymph, on T:9479 10:04 "Oh, you want a new mumak?? 10:04 is there a material that nothing can get through? what are iceboxes made off? 10:04 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 10:04 "Sure, I've got one IN MY POCKET." 10:04 Plastic. 10:04 "that'll be 250 kthxbai" 10:06 raisse: I'm just not seeing why it's unbalanced or something for the player to buy a high level figurine at $EXPENSIVE, and be able to sell the same high level figurine at roughly $EXPENSIVE/2 10:06 -!- MisteryMyra has joined #hardfought 10:07 aosdict\ito: that was when I didn't realise that figurines are pre-identified and it had set in my brain 10:07 ah ok 10:07 I don't think a blessed figurine is guaranteed tame though, some come out peaceful afaik 10:07 especially the high level ones 10:07 in dnh they're guaranteed tame if blessed IIRC 10:07 Blessed figurine in vanilla is 80% chance tame, iirc 10:07 AntiGulp: Message from AmyBSOD\srn at 2018-06-24 03:24 EDT: saw your message in the backscroll; I never doubted that you have a method for your additions/removals, but the problem with the void is not that it kills the player character, the problem is IMHO that it kills the player character without giving any meaningful reward for those who do brave it and kill the void dragon. With the current implementation it's just a zone where you go if you want to die. 10:07 AntiGulp: Message from AmyBSOD\srn at 2018-06-24 03:28 EDT: also I second your notion that Gehennom is way too long, one could cut the # of boring maze filler levels in half and nothing would be lost. But I'd advise you to take a look at SLEX's Gehennom where not only do other types of levels exist, mazes.des also has more interesting mazes with special rooms and stuff :) 10:08 ...I don't think Amy read the part of the log where you said you're going to rebalance and reintroduce the void. 10:08 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:09 Hmmm, yeah. I do think a reward is very important, but I need time to figure out what, and also solve the problem that in my opinion the level is still boring. 10:10 [hdf-us] [nh361] Borto (Hea Hum Fem Neu), 5840 points, T:9830, killed by an invisible dwarf king 10:11 a nice reward are magic markers 10:12 True. In general, a garaunteed magic marker would be nice. 10:12 yep 10:13 (compare to sheol's reward in unnethack) 10:14 the problem is justifying the flavor of a magic marker 10:14 right 10:14 <[Demo][srn]> make it scented 10:14 wow there are a lot of acid blobs on this floor 10:14 <[Demo][srn]> good flavor 10:14 stenno\ito: isn't a criticism of sheol's reward that it's too little too late? 10:15 it also has some nice potions and scrolls and also a crystal pick 10:15 idk if its 'too late' 10:15 magic marker is definetely not too late 10:15 well the crystal pick is what I meant, because anyone who cares is going to have Cleaver by then 10:15 also i think you can reach sheol from the votd portals 10:15 maybe the crystal pick, yeah 10:17 MM would arguably not even be too late on astral lol 10:17 i did not die in the void, i killed the void dragon. just sayin' 10:17 (backscroll) 10:17 it's a shame that I'm not really interested in adding any branches that need rewards, because xnh object materials offer up a lot of fun possibilities for rewards 10:17 i agree the reward was not worth the risk 10:18 -!- MiseryMyra has joined #hardfought 10:18 i am a huge fan of optional branches with fixed or pooled rewards 10:18 unfortunately just implementing random branches in nethack is not really possible 10:19 you'd have to hack it abit 10:19 Procedurally generated branches would be amazing 10:19 wasn't Chris_ANG thinking of something like that recently...? 10:19 thats not the problem 10:19 well at least not as much of a problem 10:19 And then hit a wall because the dungeon code assumes you know all the branches in advance. 10:19 Yeah, the code is not designed to accomodate that really 10:20 aosdict\ito: indeed thats the problem 10:20 -!- MisteryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:20 the hack would be using the same strategy as fort ludios 10:20 You can have branch A with 40% probability and branch B with 60% probability, but there's no way to say if A fails to generate, then you must generate B. 10:20 I was thinking about substituting in different dungeons, yeah. 10:20 Not procedurally generated, though. 10:21 Amy has apparently shown that it is possible to sub in different dungeon.pdfs at the start of the game. 10:21 YANI: A subspace branch. There are multiple entrances and exits, so it can be used to traverse the dungeon quickly. It is populated with nasty monsters though. 10:21 > pdf :P 10:21 After the role selection is known. 10:22 des ? 10:22 pdf 10:22 whats that 10:22 I know. 10:22 stenno\ito: des is only for levels 10:22 whats a pdf 10:22 The parsed dungeon file. 10:22 aah 10:22 Although, I thought the place that you actually edit stuff is dungeon.def. 10:22 I'm guessing nethack predates Adobe? 10:23 Yeah 10:23 there's not much still in use today which predates nethack 10:23 Hmm, wikipedia says Adobe Systems was founded in 1982 which does predate nethack 10:23 .def becomes .pdf after parsing, like how .des becomes .lev after parsing. 10:23 i see 10:24 In 3.6.1 vanilla, I just found a “strange object” in a shop. This is not normal, right? 10:24 Also, I *just now* realized that pdf probably DOES stand for "parsed dungeon file" 10:25 AntiGulp: Are you actually standing on it or farlooking it 10:25 farlooking 10:25 it's a mimic 10:25 if its a food, i think its raisses custom fruit name 10:25 it's a mimic that's not very skilled at mimicking stuff :D 10:25 Huh, I never knew that could happen! Thanks! 10:25 only I'm using "thing" for the tournament 10:26 oh ok 10:26 because last time around people were complaining about it 10:26 wut? 10:26 it sounds silly to complain about that .-. 10:26 I should set my fruitname to "glorkum 0 0 0". 10:26 it's like I don't create Sting as often as I'd like on a server because I don't want to piss off people who get my bones and want to artiwish 10:27 if they have problems with bones, they can just play !bones (thats what i do normally) 10:27 * stenno\ito shrugs 10:27 I should make that xnh change I've been meaning to where bones and named artis don't count towards gifting or wishing 10:27 * stenno\ito goes back to watching football 10:27 oh, they want bones; they just don't want sting bones 10:28 how about making it much more likely that items get reverted to their basic items 10:28 ^ 10:28 i _think_ unnethack does something like that 10:28 [hdf-us] [nh361] antigulp (Val Hum Fem Law), 832 points, T:2304, killed by a rothe 10:28 go team q 10:28 also it makes part of the died player's inventory disappear 10:28 darn rothes 10:29 raisse: idk that sounds like someone playing the lottery but demands on getting at least 2 numbers correct every time 10:29 [hdf-us] [4k] hothraxxa (Val Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased historic +3 helm of brilliance named the brain", on T:41074 10:30 visored, cool! 10:30 stenno\ito: if I made a new branch and its reward was, say, a dragonhide cloak of protection, which you cannot ordinarily get at all, do you think people would be falling over themselves to complete the branch 10:30 yes 10:30 thats a really good cloak 10:30 I definitely would 10:30 so yeah tons of cool stuff to do with materials 10:30 but it would require GDSM + "oR or [oR 10:31 add reflection and i'm in 10:31 well, it's impossible to give someone a lottery ticket with 2 guaranteed correct numbers, but it *is* possible to avoid annoying people by not leaving things in bones that screw up their game 10:31 cloak of reflecting protection 10:31 if someone hits you with a spell, it protects the caster 10:31 dragonhide, and i've had one in grunt 10:31 raisse: well i guess then it shows your empathy that you are actually doing that 10:32 *shrug* it's not empathy, it's conflict avoidance 10:32 i have a dragonhide cloak of magic resistance and reflection in my current grunt game 10:32 hothraxxa: actually, I quite like that a dragonhide cloak of protection provides no useful intrinsics. some builds might not want it at all. 10:32 well MC3 I guess 10:32 you only want [oProt if you have a mrtifact or GDSM 10:33 gdsm is how i roll, mostly 10:33 If you get "oR, then that cloak sounds mandatory 10:33 most likely GDSM because you don't want to rely on mrtifact 10:33 right 10:33 zid: yep, soko reward oftentimes decides the build in the first place 10:33 but would you still wish for "oR instead of SDSM if you get boh 10:34 could also have an armory of weapons with some guaranteed nice or rare materials 10:34 like cheese 10:34 that's a rare material to make a sword out of 10:34 don't wish for dsm. wish for cursed genocide and make your own 10:34 zid: this isn't grunt where you can have a cloak made out of jerky 10:34 nah, wish for dsm 10:34 or a marker if you know genocide 10:34 it saves 3 scrolls of enchant armour 10:35 and the chance of failure 10:35 easy to come by 10:35 you and your infinite resources :v 10:35 I've seen people kill 20 dragons and not get it 10:35 and I've had games that made it to orcus without ?oEA 10:35 definitely wish for dsm if you are early enough in the game that dragons are not easy to kill 10:35 i have never needed more than one scroll, but of course the odds will catch up someday 10:35 hothraxxa: You can wish +3 10:36 i am aware of thatm thanks anyway 10:36 That's where the other scrolls I was counting were coming frm 10:36 aosdict\ito: but regarding a guaranteed dragonhide cloak of protection in the later game (i assume a gehe branch?) 10:36 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 10:36 actually aosdict is right, an early wish changes what i do 10:36 aosdict\ito: the question was if you get boh, you cannot get gdsm 10:36 er 10:36 if you get boh, do you wish for "oR or for gdsm 10:37 becuase if you wish for sdsm, you have to get comr 10:37 because unfortunately gdsm and comr are the only non-artifact mr sources 10:37 and chaotic don't have any mrtifacts 10:38 maybe magicbane i guess 10:39 the question of a guaranteed dragonhide cloak of protection is academic because I don't actually intend to add any branches right now (would prefer to redesign existing bad levels) 10:39 well its still an interesting question 10:39 but fine 10:39 but if I ever _do_ add new things that need good rewards, these are the sorts of things that object materials provides 10:40 rather than "uhhh maybe throw a magic marker at it and call it a day??" 10:40 mm yes, there's dragonhide, and then there's, umm dragonhide. 10:40 also silver for weapons 10:40 silver is good too i guess 10:40 dunno if there's another useful one 10:40 silver, shatterproof glass, gold for weapons eventually 10:41 also mithril, for weight reduction/AC boost 10:41 for the brawlers 10:41 for armor i would always choose dragonhide over mithril 10:41 ^^^ 10:41 well yes but I might not actually provide dragonhide 10:41 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 10:42 say I make a new mines' end variant, I could see providing a full set of dwarvish mithril in addition to the luckstone as a reward 10:42 do elves get malus for wearing dwarvish armor? 10:42 that would also further overpower the dwa valk in the early game 10:42 not in xnethack... only place I can think of that might do that is dnh 10:42 assuming racial armor bonus 10:44 I mean, you can say that khor's orc temple mines' end overpowers pet-dependent players like healers, due to the blessed figurine of a balrog being less useful for other characters 10:45 if you require rewards to be totally balanced, it gets boring 10:46 there is a difference between 'totally balanced' and 'not totally overpowering an already overpowered role' 10:49 [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4629 10:51 [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 2638 points, T:4908, killed by a rabid rat, while sleeping 10:55 No racial armor bonuses in dnh. There are material-based penalties, but dwarves don't suffer from them. 11:02 [hdf-us] [nh361] IceBox (Val Hum Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at her by some watery tart, on T:3004 11:03 So I’m playing splicehack, and I just ran into a gnome lord with three amulets of life saving and an artifact scythe. What the actual heck 11:04 Wait… it has a wand in its inventory. It was spamming a wand of wishing… 11:05 lol 11:06 you could think about a level noise whenever a monster wishes for something 11:06 It wished for two amulets of life saving, and was equipped with one to start with. I can’t believe this. Yeah, I think level noise might be appropriate. 11:06 Well now I have a wand of wishing I guess 11:06 @d?shiere eladrin 11:06 No such monster. 11:07 well that's not helpful 11:08 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:18 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: explodes into confetti] 11:18 [hdf-us] [fh] ahrimen (Val Dwa Fem Law), 62635 points, T:13522, killed by an Elvenqueen 11:23 -!- QueenDairy has joined #hardfought 11:34 Tangles: I think the bot is no longer updated? 11:35 The Eladrin wiki page exists: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Eladrin 11:36 Except, I think I finally fixed the duplicating-energy-form bug :/ 11:39 <[Demo][srn]> what caused it? 11:40 <[Demo][srn]> also the what 11:40 <[Demo][srn]> how did the energy form duplicate? 11:40 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 36117 points, T:2847, killed by a pony 11:44 <[Demo][srn]> wow 11:46 [Demo][srn]: In vanilla only brown molds have the cold passive attack, I think. 11:46 At least, it assumes that any creature with that attack is able to feed off body heat and divide. 11:46 <[Demo][srn]> ahhh 11:46 <[Demo][srn]> blue jellies 11:47 <[Demo][srn]> oh is that why ice vortexs dont have passive cold? 11:47 <[Demo][srn]> vortices 11:48 Maybe, yeah. dNh now has brown mold and blue jelly division as a special case in the AD_COLD passive, 11:48 so it should be fixed, and also futureproofed XD 11:49 <[Demo][srn]> time to do the same then I guess 11:49 <[Demo][srn]> wait yukki onnas have passive cold 11:50 <[Demo][srn]> how was that not a problem? 11:51 yukis post-date that fix. 11:51 I did it quite a while ago, and then apparently forgot to remove the note on the wiki. 11:52 <[Demo][srn]> oh so this is an old fix and im hopping in to something im out of my element in 11:52 K2: Got a crash on 4k astral plane, and accidently space barred past the prompt asking me what to do. 11:52 <[Demo][srn]> yikes 11:52 <[Demo][srn]> how does one fix astral crashes 11:52 K2: not sure what it did with the game, it still has my last save back from when I was still in hell. 11:53 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Cav Hum Mal Neu), 27682 points, T:1290, killed by a rabid rat 11:53 <[Demo][srn]> why does every variant seem to like to astral crash? 11:53 <[Demo][srn]> why is astral so crashy? 11:53 <[Demo][srn]> ndnh has an ultra rare astral crash bug i think that i cant ever get to replicate when i want it to and it ust sigabrts 11:54 dNh likes to crash there because of the high density of weapon-wielding, spell casting monsters. 11:54 <[Demo][srn]> i spammed the hell out of astral entry in dnh 3.15.1 11:54 <[Demo][srn]> and it was stable as hell 11:54 <[Demo][srn]> but sometimes when you enter in ndnh it sigabrts 11:54 <[Demo][srn]> but like really rarely 11:55 Both those things are prone to rare bugs, and are otherwise uncommon. 11:55 Not a clue re: that problem, though. 11:55 <[Demo][srn]> yeah im not sure what ive done that could have caused it 11:55 Seems like the message for this crash was "invalid object order (108 > 98) 11:56 <[Demo][srn]> have added extra race and role 11:56 <[Demo][srn]> i think it might be illithanachronounbinder related somehow 11:56 I don't know why you can skip past the recovery message with space bar. 11:56 <[Demo][srn]> because fourk 11:56 <[Demo][srn]> or nh4 11:56 <[Demo][srn]> or whoever we're blaming today 11:56 <[Demo][srn]> lets blame nitrohack 11:57 blame me, I can bear it (not that I've ever coded any nethack variant) 11:57 :( That needs a paranoid prompt, yeah. 11:57 One of those things that I should look at for dnh, actually. 11:58 [Demo][srn]: You didn't by any chance add anything that can reference other levels, right? 11:58 Like, some sprit-monster that can teleport around the dungeon or anything? 11:58 <[Demo][srn]> nope 11:58 <[Demo][srn]> ok so whats really weird though is that the void still works after astral 11:58 <[Demo][srn]> like all the levels die or something when entering planes 11:59 <[Demo][srn]> but when you get sent to the void after astral it doesn't even cry 11:59 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 26313 points, T:2022, killed by a rothe 11:59 <[Demo][srn]> even if you had a previous existing void that got wiped 11:59 <[Demo][srn]> which isnt possible outside of wizard mode 12:00 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 12316 points, T:514, killed by an electric shock 12:02 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 5134 points, T:350, killed by a Ms. Sneem, the shopkeeper 12:03 ...does the void also have a negative number? 12:03 <[Demo][srn]> no 12:03 *negative level number 12:03 <[Demo][srn]> its like a branch off of oracle 12:03 <[Demo][srn]> or something 12:03 <[Demo][srn]> because negative numbers broke shit 12:03 <[Demo][srn]> so im like ok i ll make it real easy and just make it a floating branch off the main dungeon 12:03 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 11199 points, T:469, killed by a falling rock 12:04 <[Demo][srn]> that there is no way to access 12:04 <[Demo][srn]> which is restrospectively pretty ghetto but oh well 12:05 <[Demo][srn]> probably messes with ludios chances 12:06 Can you wizmode teleport from astral back to void? 12:06 Or anywhere in the planes, really. 12:07 <[Demo][srn]> doubtful 12:07 <[Demo][srn]> should be no 12:07 <[Demo][srn]> definitely no 12:07 That explains it, then. 12:07 The "You can't get there from here" check is only in the teleport code. 12:08 ... 12:08 floating as in: magic portal rather than extra stairs? 12:08 <[Demo][srn]> as in nothing 12:08 [hdf-us] [fh] ahrimen (Val Dwa Fem Law), 47540 points, T:5548, killed by a watch captain 12:08 then how do you get there? 12:08 You might be able to wizmode levelport OUT of the void back into (a new instance of) the main dungeon, actually. 12:08 <@lapis/ootc> Chris: am I correct in thinking that full healing ampules have been changed to not give HP? 12:08 You are correct. 12:09 <[Demo][srn]> open up the high altar to the void as an illithanachronounbinder 12:09 <@lapis/ootc> Does gain energy still give max energy? 12:10 * Chris_ANG checks 12:10 It doesn't 12:10 <@lapis/ootc> Hrm. Alright 12:10 Gives +200 current energy if blessed, 100 current energy if uncursed. 12:10 <@lapis/ootc> Looking to gear up for the ana quest, fem drow have awful hp growth 12:11 <[Demo][srn]> use gain ability 12:11 <[Demo][srn]> dont bother blessing because you can use it infinitely on yourself right now 12:11 <[Demo][srn]> unless fix is on compat which last i checked isnt 12:11 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 31773 points, T:1674, killed by a rothe 12:12 Cheater :P 12:12 <[Demo][srn]> and just max your constitution 12:12 <@lapis/ootc> I already blessed+injected a bunch of gain ability 12:12 It won't be fixed during junehack. 12:12 <@lapis/ootc> I think their con maxes out at 8 12:12 <@lapis/ootc> 18 12:12 <[Demo][srn]> damn 12:12 It was detected too late, so it's staying in. 12:12 <[Demo][srn]> ive donea good abusing of it in victory digs 12:13 <@lapis/ootc> Do you just use the empty phial? 12:13 <[Demo][srn]> it goes negative 12:13 Yeah, the number of doeses remaining just goes negative. 12:13 <[Demo][srn]> its like a signed byte, the spe 12:14 'cause I forgot to actually *check* the number of doses remaining in that code path. 12:14 <@lapis/ootc> Ahh, would not have figured that one out 12:14 <[Demo][srn]> ive been getting mine to 127 and stopping 12:14 <[Demo][srn]> incase chris fixed it 12:14 <[Demo][srn]> my full healings 12:14 <@lapis/ootc> Is there an intentional reason that they don’t just vanish at 0? 12:14 <[Demo][srn]> to recharge them 12:14 <[Demo][srn]> power packs, baby 12:15 <@lapis/ootc> Huh. Didn’t actually realize you could do that 12:15 <[Demo][srn]> now you shouldnt still be able to use them at 0 12:15 nethack in general has a history of having stuff being signed where it should be unsigned 12:15 <[Demo][srn]> yeah thats what u get for using spe for everything 12:15 even though i guess in that case it would just overflow 12:15 <[Demo][srn]> i still want a spe/charges split 12:15 <@lapis/ootc> I’m very frightened by the low HP but that makes them not improving your health understandable 12:15 examples include: turns, gold 12:15 Eh. Most stuff should be signed. 12:16 <[Demo][srn]> turns are signed? 12:16 antigold was one of the most broken things in 3.4.3 12:16 yeah 12:16 Nethack has a history of shoving things into variables that are just *barely* the right size, 12:16 <[Demo][srn]> wait so its a signed long so i might be able to overflow it? 12:16 it was done on NAO 12:16 so there's no room to grow without re-writing parts of the code >:( 12:16 <[Demo][srn]> how? 12:17 <[Demo][srn]> how big is it? 12:17 and antigold was a common exploit 12:17 used extensively by berry and the like 12:17 Signed vs unsigned is only a factor of 2. 12:17 <[Demo][srn]> if i could survive infinitely without eating or fighting monsters would overflowing time be trivial? 12:17 <[Demo][srn]> a factor of two is huge when we are talking days 12:17 <[Demo][srn]> 6 days vs 12 days is a lot 12:17 So if the unsigned long would take longer than june to overflow, the signed one would too. 12:17 [Demo][srn]: seen what i queried in #nethack? 12:18 <[Demo][srn]> i dont know if it would 12:18 <[Demo][srn]> and no my <#389228245087944715> doesnt work 12:18 <[Demo][srn]> dammit damn discord 12:18 Rodney | stenno\ito: turns,name: 1) -2147483648,Khaos 12:18 I believe NAO was overflowed back when it used 32 bit longs? 12:18 yes the khaos game 12:18 <[Demo][srn]> so is that no longer an option? 12:18 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 27634 points, T:1718, killed by a kitten 12:19 i think 3.6.1 has some overflow protection now 12:19 <[Demo][srn]> what about dnh? :P 12:19 my guess would be that you still had to overflow 64bit in dnh in modern systems 12:19 and there is no real safe way to do it unless you find a space where no monster will spawn 12:19 <[Demo][srn]> yes there is 12:19 or you extinct all monsters 12:19 <[Demo][srn]> a 100% safe way 12:20 <[Demo][srn]> dnh has a way that I've thought about using qutie a bit 12:20 and yeah also infinite food of course but thats probably less of a problem 12:20 According to the wiki "The above trick still works in principle, but will take a few hundred million years to complete." 12:20 ah 12:20 [hdf-us] [fh] ahrimen (Val Dwa Fem Law), 23365 points, T:1113, killed by a giant bat 12:20 ain't nobody got time for that 12:21 <@Tone\ootc> Didn't someone try that during the devnull tribute tourney? 12:21 yeah 12:21 <@Tone\ootc> I don't think they realized it was 64 bit 12:21 for team lettuce 12:21 <[Demo][srn]> infintie food and no monsters 12:22 yeah then you could do s all the time 12:22 idk what the max number is that you can prepend to s 12:22 with !sparkle it shouldn't take any time 12:22 or w/e the dnh equivalent is called 12:23 <[Demo][srn]> hey chris did you look into that weird inventory bug? 12:23 No, I haven't looked at it at all. 12:23 might also blind and deafen yourself to make sure you don't get distracted by anything that might happen 12:23 <[Demo][srn]> i totally forgot about it 12:24 According to the wiki, you can exist in stasis in vanilla by extincting any monsters that can randomly generate for you, 12:24 getting a ring of slow digestion, 12:24 maybe you can just do 9223372036854775807 12:24 s 12:24 and then just inserting a single #pray command in the right parts of the sequence. 12:24 <[Demo][srn]> no 12:24 <[Demo][srn]> it haps at like a short 12:24 short? 12:24 annoying 12:24 <[Demo][srn]> a signed 2 bytes i think 12:25 well time to write a very simple script i guess 12:25 <[Demo][srn]> that 30 some number 12:25 wut 12:25 no, you can do 200s 12:25 1 byte is already 245 12:25 256 12:26 <[Demo][srn]> half of 65k 12:26 30k then 12:26 32k 12:26 i'd guess 32768 :P 12:26 <[Demo][srn]> is it actually faster with sparkle off? 12:26 well 12:26 not 100 sure 12:26 but should be 12:27 sorry 12:27 runmode:teleport 12:27 thats the one i meant 12:27 i think that also counts for . or s 12:27 but not really sure now 12:27 ah i think i just misunderstood what you meant with '30 some number' 12:28 <[Demo][srn]> wait what 12:28 <[Demo][srn]> nope 12:28 with runmode:teleport, any multi action should be instant 12:28 <[Demo][srn]> not faster botl decides to keep updating 12:29 damn 12:29 <[Demo][srn]> oh shit i can turn that off 12:29 yes 12:29 i thought that was a given :P 12:29 !time, !showscore 12:29 !showexp 12:29 for good measure 12:29 <[Demo][srn]> those dont matter 12:29 <[Demo][srn]> cause there is no botl 12:30 wait you turned the botl off? 12:30 <[Demo][srn]> yeah 12:30 how 12:30 <[Demo][srn]> for some reason my paste isnt working 12:30 <[Demo][srn]> its an option 12:30 .-. 12:30 lol 12:30 <[Demo][srn]> botl_updates 12:30 aah nice 12:31 <[Demo][srn]> hmmm wtf 12:31 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 30108 points, T:2042, killed by a killer bee 12:32 with what number did you try? 12:32 <[Demo][srn]> using max number 12:32 <@Tone\ootc> Chris_ANG: I don't think you have to extinct monsters. I'd expect a jelly+boulder fort to be sufficient 12:32 <[Demo][srn]> 99999999s 12:33 aah k 12:33 <[Demo][srn]> just pasted that in a shit ton of times 12:33 <@Tone\ootc> Also don't have telepathy 12:33 maybe . is better than s 12:33 <@Tone\ootc> ring of slow digestion and praying will sustain nutrition forever 12:34 <@Tone\ootc> although I wonder if polymorphing into a monster that doesn't eat and wearing unchanging would make even that unneccessary 12:34 but apparently dnethack is borked in that you can survive without having to eat or extinct monsters 12:34 <[Demo][srn]> yeah good point 12:34