00:00 -!- a_boudelia has joined #hardfought 00:00 -!- a_boudelia has quit [Client Quit] 00:03 [hdf-us] [fh] ahrimen (Val Dwa Fem Law), 42521 points, T:9654, killed by a rope golem 00:14 [hdf-us] [fh] ahrimen (Val Dwa Fem Law), 26387 points, T:1122, killed by a hill orc 00:32 [hdf-us] [xnh] Pimpus (Ran Elf Mal Cha) killed Scorpius, on T:32182 00:33 [hdf-us] [xnh] Pimpus (Ran Elf Mal Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:32219 00:39 -!- Chris__ANG has joined #hardfought 00:39 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:39 -!- Chris__ANG is now known as Chris_ANG 00:45 -!- stenno\ito has joined #hardfought 00:46 -!- raisse\splat has joined #hardfought 00:46 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse\splat] by ChanServ 00:50 -!- stenno\ito has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:10 -!- greqrg has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:54 -!- raisse\splat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:02 -!- raisse\splat has joined #hardfought 02:02 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse\splat] by ChanServ 02:02 [hdf-us] [nh13d] rustmonster (Priest ### Mal ###) killed the ghost of �, the former Priest, on T:3336 02:14 [hdf-us] [nh361] k2 (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Medusa, on T:22056 02:18 [hdf-us] [nh13d] rustmonster (Priest ### Mal ###) killed the ghost of Things tQ, the former Priest, on T:4360 02:22 [hdf-us] [nh13d] rustmonster (Pri Mal), 6480 points, T:5132, blaze of fire 02:52 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 02:54 [hdf-us] [xnh] Pimpus (Ran Elf Mal Cha) genocided class ;, on T:36504 03:05 !who 03:05 Mandevil\splat: [hdf-us] Luxidream [dyn] Pimpus [xnh] 03:05 Mandevil\splat: [hdf-eu] Raisse [nh343] 03:05 Mandevil\splat: [hdf-au] Tangles [gh] 03:07 [hdf-us] [xnh] Pimpus (Ran Elf Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:36962 03:13 -!- stenno\ito has joined #hardfought 03:14 -!- raisse\splat has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:24 -!- Menche_ has joined #hardfought 03:24 -!- Menche is now known as Guest72063 03:24 -!- Guest72063 has quit [Killed (moon.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 03:24 -!- Menche_ is now known as Menche 03:42 -!- raisse\splat has joined #hardfought 03:42 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse\splat] by ChanServ 03:51 [hdf-us] [xnh] Pimpus (Ran Elf Mal Cha), 194138 points, T:38672, killed by an Angel 03:55 -!- Menche_ has joined #hardfought 03:56 -!- Menche has quit [Killed (weber.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 03:56 -!- Menche_ is now known as Menche 04:04 -!- nzy has joined #hardfought 04:04 here we go again 04:13 -!- raisse\splat has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:16 [hdf-us] [nh343] Nzy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 441 points, T:1079, killed by a gnome lord 04:26 [hdf-us] [un] richards (Val Hum Fem Law), 3363 points, T:2915, killed by a human mummy, while frozen by a monster's gaze 04:27 -!- Menche_ has joined #hardfought 04:30 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:52 -!- Menche_ is now known as Menche 04:54 Junethack: New clan Liryax created! https://junethack.net/clan/Liryax 04:55 Junethack: New user Liryax registered! https://junethack.net/user/Liryax 04:58 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought 04:58 -!- Menche_ has joined #hardfought 05:01 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:06 Hello 05:06 Hello Tariru, Welcome to #hardfought 05:06 Tariru: Message from K2 at 2018-06-16 21:49 EDT: I've made your dynahack save available to FIQ, if anyone can help, he's it. just understand, fixing issues with dynahack and recoving saves is difficult to say the least. 05:07 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 05:10 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 05:13 Junethack: sprankton ascended a game of NetHack 3.6.1 on nethack.alt.org! 05:30 -!- Menche__ has joined #hardfought 05:33 -!- Menche_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:01 -!- Menche_ has joined #hardfought 06:04 -!- Menche__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:14 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:28 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:33 -!- Menche__ has joined #hardfought 06:36 -!- Tariru_ has joined #hardfought 06:36 -!- Menche_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:39 -!- AmyBSOD\srn has joined #hardfought 06:39 -!- Tariru has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:48 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1] 06:54 -!- tungtn has left #hardfought 06:55 -!- tungtn has joined #hardfought 06:59 !tell ais523 what the hell, why can't my character's name in nethack4 be longer? I thought you pulled the fix from FIQhack or Nethack Fourk? :( 06:59 Will do, AmyBSOD\srn! 07:01 -!- raisse\splat has joined #hardfought 07:01 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse\splat] by ChanServ 07:01 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3355 07:04 -!- Menche_ has joined #hardfought 07:07 -!- Menche__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:21 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 32038 points, T:1883, killed by a little dog 07:23 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 07:23 yo ais523! you have a message from me :) 07:24 hi AmyBSOD\srn, Beholder 07:24 ais523: Message from AmyBSOD\srn at 2018-06-17 06:59 EDT: what the hell, why can't my character's name in nethack4 be longer? I thought you pulled the fix from FIQhack or Nethack Fourk? :( 07:24 I put some character limits on as an emergency security fix 07:25 ^^ what is the maximum length of my character's name? I wanted to call her "Princess Cathlette" but it complained that it was too long :( 07:25 12, I think 07:25 aww 07:25 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 25808 points, T:1254, killed by a dwarf 07:30 -!- Graznop has joined #hardfought 07:31 there was a "stop moving" wand in the sokozoo... good thing no intelligent monster got to it first 07:33 -!- Tarmunora has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:36 That doesn't sound very lawful. 07:36 -!- Menche__ has joined #hardfought 07:37 Poor Kyzyl... running a liquor store in a rough neighborhood. Probably happens all the time. 07:39 -!- Menche_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:39 -!- Tarmunora has joined #hardfought 07:40 -!- stenno\ito has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:40 <@Winsalot> AmyBSOD\srn: hi, does wand of remove resistance have permanent effects? 07:40 Winsalot: yes 07:40 it can remove other intrinsics too; one player did a spectacular SLEX ragequit because of it 07:40 <@Winsalot> fuck 07:40 so if it e.g. removed your poison resistance, you need to get it back by eating an appropriate corpse 07:41 also wtf how did you get disintegration resistance early? 07:41 !tell K2 I just pushed a fix for grunthack - restoring a save with unpaid items was crashing if perm_invent was on. It's possible other variants are affected too. 07:41 Will do, Tangles! 07:41 <@Winsalot> how screwed am I? 07:42 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/457872530020237334/hat_happened.png 07:42 <@Winsalot> Nah I am mystic 07:42 <@Winsalot> So I might have had it randomly from the start 07:42 Winsalot: you lost telepathy, invisibility and disintegration resistance 07:43 <@Winsalot> Hm, ragequit sounds nice now 😃 07:43 at least those are all not that impossible to get back; the ragequitter back then did so because he lost his doppelganger's intrinsic polymorph control 07:43 he said that he'd never play slex again, and so far he really didn't 07:43 <@Winsalot> who was it? 07:44 uhh, I'm not so sure if namecalling is appropriate 07:44 but he's in a clan that has 5 members 07:45 there's more to it but I prefer to not make that public 07:45 PM me if you want details ;) 07:46 Tangles: Oh, figures that in my wizmode game I created to test if this crash happens in xnh curses, Izchak has 3 magic lamps. Now I'll bemoan my lost opportunity all day. 07:46 hmm, this sounds like a headroom argument, but I thought slex was aiming for higher than vanilla, so it's weird to see a player quit due to considering the headroom too low 07:47 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: sorry for my connection] 07:47 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 07:47 <@Winsalot> nah, I looked at bot 5 ppl calns and didnt recognize any names 07:47 anyway, I'm saving and restoring with lots of unpaid items and not seeing any crash... they're all TOOL_CLASS though 07:47 <@Winsalot> both* 07:47 ais523: actually, he could just have slipped on a ring of poly control or drained itself below the level where doppelgangers get that intrinsic or 07:47 yes, there are solutions 07:47 you remove a lot of that sort of thing from the game, though 07:47 e.g. the inventory weight cap, there are solutions to that too 07:48 yup, okay, now it crashed 07:48 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 29624 points, T:1727, killed by a straw golem 07:48 so that sort of issue existing seems out of character with your general style in other respects 07:48 ? having a bigger carry cap should actually increase the headroom since it allows you to have more stuff with which to handle various situations 07:48 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 6727 points, T:153, killed by a fox 07:49 <@Winsalot> but in the end I think that all the evil things fit quite nicely into slex. 07:49 :D 07:49 AmyBSOD\srn: no, that's my point 07:49 a larger carry cap is a headroom-increasing feature that lets you be over-overprepared if you want to, and a convenience feature that helps to reduce feel-bad moments 07:49 someone should make a "max headroom" easter egg or something 07:49 ah, yeah 07:50 and yet something like a wand of remove resistance is the exact opposite of that, screws over some character concepts and is inconvenient to fix 07:50 it's an EPI :D 07:51 basically, the otherwise high headroom is what allows slex to not become unplayable despite the EPIs; there's usually things you can do to mitigate the bad effects caused by the EPIs 07:51 Winsalot: wow is that "bubbleorctown"? ♥ 07:51 hmm, so the intended behaviour is "this game repeatedly screws you over but you should be powerful enough to handle it"? 07:51 yes, more or less 07:52 ais523: you should play it at least once, then you can probably form a more educated opinion ;) 07:52 *bundlebundlebundle* 07:54 Tangles: Uhhhh..... xnh already has the if (!restoring) statement on that update_inventory() call, but I still got a crash when restoring a game with unpaid inventory items... 07:54 -!- aoei has joined #hardfought 07:54 ais523: if you only hear player's complaints of "omg slex has , it's so unfair!", it will feel as if those things were happening in-game all the time, which isn't really the case ;) 07:54 AmyBSOD\srn: well, something like 5-10% of the /death messages posted by Beholder/ offend me 07:55 so I assume I'm going to be offended many times per game 07:55 aosdict\ito: There may be other places besides setworn() that need the check, but the crash I found todat was definitely that one. 07:56 I have played vanilla Slash'EM a bit and didn't really like it 07:56 ais523: what, so many?! I've looked over the latest ones and it has stuff like: killed by a monster (annoying desert enemy) killed by a monster (troll), while praying unsuccessfully killed by a monster (vampire lord), while frozen by a paralysis trap killed by a disintegration beam poisoned by a gray patch 07:56 the other option is to move the check into update_inventory() but that's inside the windowport, so would have to be done for all windowports with the perm_invent window. 07:57 or maybe it could go further down in display_pickinv() or somewhere, but that would probably require a deeper understanding of the issue :) 07:58 I suggest if you're still getting the crash, check where update_inventory() is being called in the backtrace. 07:59 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:8974 08:01 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 27953 points, T:1281, killed by a rothe 08:06 Tangles: you want the backtrace? 08:07 sure 08:07 -!- Menche_ has joined #hardfought 08:08 -!- tacco| has joined #hardfought 08:09 https://pastebin.com/raw/jJhca2ag 08:10 ah right... that's logically the other place. 08:10 setuwep() 08:10 kind of counterpart to setworn() 08:10 -!- Menche__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:11 I should add that to the gh fix for completeness. 08:14 ok that's pushed too. 08:14 go Grasshopper!! 08:32 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Orc Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:12204 08:33 argh picked up a loadstone because I thought it was the luckstone 08:33 where are all those nymphs when I need them? 08:34 No HW? 08:34 nope 08:34 not even plain water 08:34 * Pinkbeast really must get this Valk home before the end of the month 08:34 never mind, something tripped a poly trap and became a water troll and killed me 08:35 Maybe even play a game that's not 3.4.3 ahem 08:35 I'm playing 3.4.3 orc barb now because it's easier than 3.6.1 priest 08:35 Me not you 08:35 oh right, you have a 3.4.3 valk going 08:36 -!- stenno\ito has joined #hardfought 08:36 I have splatted fourish 3.4.3 Valks, a heroic achievement :-( 08:36 YASI to annoy Amy: limit the character name to three letters, like old arcade game high score lists. 08:37 jonadab: At least AMY fits 08:37 "Rai" is actually a valid short form of "Raisse" in the language it comes from :-) 08:38 I could live with being "PB " 08:38 I normally use my initials "a5" if I need to abbreviate my nick further 08:39 -!- Menche__ has joined #hardfought 08:40 jonadab: Also limit the character name to uppercase. 08:40 JON, AOS, RAI, AIS, AMY 08:40 jonadab: heh, in Pokemon Vietnamese Crystal the character's name is really limited like that :D 08:40 -!- stenno\ito has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:42 -!- Menche_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:42 -!- aeoi has joined #hardfought 08:43 -!- Tariru_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:46 -!- aoei has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:48 yay +5! 08:48 I occasionally use my RL initials "IRD" 08:49 or my RL hypocoristic "IRA" 08:49 \o/ 08:49 K2: Message from Tangles at 2018-06-17 07:41 EDT: I just pushed a fix for grunthack - restoring a save with unpaid items was crashing if perm_invent was on. It's possible other variants are affected too. 08:49 -!- ykkie has joined #hardfought 08:49 ok 08:51 of course the one that I wanted enchanted came as +0 08:51 GruntHack updated (all servers) 08:51 thanks K2 08:51 no thank you ;) 08:52 early gh wand of wishing! 08:52 lol dragonhide is so OP 08:52 you will get cancelled though throughout the game 08:52 losing enchantment 08:53 so having the dragonhide is somewhat necessary 08:53 -!- aeoi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:54 yeah 08:54 K2: I actually only had one of my pieces of gear cancelled in my latest game iirc (by Demogorgon), and neither of my +7 weapons. 08:54 lots of luck right there 08:54 i've had games like that also, hardly anything got cancelled 08:55 and then other games where all my stuff was being cancelled repeatedly 08:55 side note - my new Roomba, 'Carl' is awesome 08:55 watching him right now 08:56 faster than our old one 'Andrew' 08:56 and its cleaning patterns seem to be more intelligent 08:57 i love Carl 08:59 K2 how much do your dogs shed? 08:59 this time of year, a lot 08:59 still blowing out their winter undercoats 09:01 hmm.. TIL greased gloves are not what you want. 09:01 having two german shepherds... having a roomba is a must if you dont have time to vacuum everyday 09:02 and Carl just buzzed my phone letting me know he docked successfully hahah 09:02 dtype: the new roomba's can interface with alexa FYI 09:03 AmyBSOD\srn: rnf is shorthand for "random fraction". it's easier to express probabilities. if rnf(1,5) {} means 1/5 chance (= 20%) of executing the block. IMO much easier readable than the inverted logic of if (!rnd(5) {} or god forbid something like if (rnd(5) <= 2) {} which would be if (rnf(2,5) {} 09:03 bhaak: ah, I see 09:03 well, your rnf function totally screws over the player because killing Cthulhu causes the amulet to teleport away! AAAAAAAHHHHHH 09:03 what the hell were you thinking when you designed that 09:04 that it doesn't work as designed as Cthulhu will fetch the amulet for you when he reforms 09:04 he added a bit more of a challenge it looks like Amy 09:04 K2: more like an evil patch idea :P 09:04 I mean, what the hell! when you kill him for the first time, the amulet should drop at the ground where he died... 09:05 but instead, every single time I killed him, the amulet would teleport! 09:05 I understand that it's meant to nerf the "drop amulet if you want to cast" strategy, but... 09:05 K2: yeah thinking of getting one... just the one black lab here but we have to vacuum every day it seems like 09:05 bhaak: was hast du zu deiner Verteidigung zu sagen? :P 09:05 bhaak: I think at least one roguelike (DCSS?) calls that x_chance_in_y 09:06 AmyBSOD\srn's philosophy is "EPIs for me, none for thee". 09:06 aosdict\ito we bought our first roomba about 5 years ago (model 880) thing is a workhorse. picks up dog hair and dirt and dust like no other 09:06 AmyBSOD\srn: you were unlucky. it's random. that it teleports away three times is hilarious. ich habe mir einen Ast abgelacht 09:06 [hdf-us] [xnh] Pimpus (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 11219 points, T:9252, poisoned by a rotted bugbear corpse 09:06 :P 09:07 yeah Demo did too, he was watching 09:07 had to get a new one because its motor is wearing out and one of its bumpers gets stuck now 09:07 but i moved it for upstairs carpet duty as there are no bumps or humps it has to try and climb over 09:07 luckily, Cthulhu somehow didn't resurrect after I killed him for the third time; in fact, I guess the game glitched there, as the cloud was gone and Cthulhu was nowhere to be seen, so I could look for the amulet and find it in a nearby pit 09:08 or is there a limit to the # of times he can resurrect? 09:08 the model 890 is just as good if not better and it has new features 09:08 the 900 series are the best but they are a lot more expensive 09:10 -!- Menche_ has joined #hardfought 09:13 -!- Menche__ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:14 ais523: yeah, I know that by now. but it is a bit verbose, if you had statistics, and the naming wouldn't fit to the rest of the rn functions 09:14 [hdf-us] [slex] ttc1401 (Wiz Red Mal Cha) killed Garland, on T:20031 09:17 there's an argument to be made that naming random number functions with "rn" and a random character is not very good for readability 09:18 if you're happy memorising names/patterns, "2>rn2(5)" isn't that hard to learn as a syntax for "2 in 5" 09:19 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 09:19 -!- raisse\splat has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:19 it isn't even any longer than "rnf(2,5)", they're both 8 characters long 09:23 yaaaaaay my ring of conflict killed the stupid watch captain in minetown and now his long sword is mine! :P 09:26 well, but are you sure it is '2>rn2(5)'? and not '2>=rn2(5)'? or even '2>rnd(5)' or '2>=rnd(5)'? 09:26 yes 09:26 and I'm astonished you aren't 09:26 (although 2>=rnd(5) would work too) 09:27 are you sure everybody would be as sure as you and I? 09:27 it's easier to remember that then remembering what rnf does 09:27 because either you have to learn what rnf and rn2 each do individually 09:27 I would disagree there. naturally. otherwise I wouldn't have added that function 09:27 or else, you have to learn what rn2 does, and /either/ learn that specific pattern with rn2 /or/ reason it out 09:28 so with the rn2 version you have strictly more ways to learn what it means 09:28 there are only two ways for a nonnegative integer to be less than 2, so 2> gives you two possibilities 09:35 lol nice round number :) 09:36 what I learned in school when we had combinatorics is that I shouldn't rely on reasoning with probabilities. 09:37 robust code is code that works without having to think about or looking up stuff that the programmer could confuse 09:37 you can use combinatorics to reason about probabilities, the other way round is harder 09:37 rnf(2,5) maps easily to 2/5 whereas with 2>rn2(5) has at least 2 potential pitfalls. the yoda ordering and the choice of the random method 09:38 rn2(5)<=2 would the usual way to write such statements 09:38 no it wouldn't 09:38 and are you all allergic to spaces 09:38 because that's 3 chances in 5 09:38 aosdict\ito: the lack of whitespace makes it easier to read because it's conceptually one unit 09:38 placing whitespace is used to let people know when things are conceptually separate 09:40 see, that's just the kind of oversight I meant. by inverting the expression, I made a mistake 09:40 bhaak: you just seem to have an addiction to <= 09:41 in C it's usual to use conventions to avoid off-by-one errors, e.g. indexes start at 0, and the upper end of a range is always exclusive 09:41 you can think of rn2(5) as picking a random index for a five-element array 09:41 so rn2(5)<2 says that the index is within the range formed by the first two elements 09:41 the fact that some languages start arrays at 1 has probably set the world of programming back several years by causing people to be confused about such things on occasion 09:42 You feel that Amaterasu Omikami is well-pleased. The voice of Amaterasu Omikami booms: "Hark, mortal!" "To enter the castle, thou must play the right tune!" 09:42 when you get that effect twice you're told the tune 09:42 -!- stenno\ito has joined #hardfought 09:42 it was an interesting attempt at a reward that wasn't just a trinsic or item 09:42 -!- Menche__ has joined #hardfought 09:42 yeah I know, but I never use the passtune anyway 09:42 but it didn't really work because the Mastermind puzzle likewise needs no trinsics or items 09:42 wand of striking is much safer ;) 09:42 (you need a tonal instrument to start it but you need one to make use of the tune anyway) 09:43 yeah and funnily enough most of the tonal instruments (bugles) are behind the drawbridge :P 09:44 actually I think this helps me understand why I don't like the Mastermind puzzle 09:44 unique to basically anything in NetHack, it relies purely on player skill, not character skill 09:45 even something like Sokoban requires you to work around monsters while you're solving it, and having a stronger character makes that easier 09:45 -!- Menche_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:45 yeah, without the monsters I could do the vanilla sokoban levels while blindfolded now 09:46 does magic mapping work on non-premapped Sokoban levels in slex? 09:46 it should work 09:46 good 09:46 ais523, there isn't much of a penalty for solving the mastermind inefficiently 09:46 none of them are flagged "nommap" 09:46 that's another example of using character skill to help solve the puzzle 09:47 jilles: yes, that's another issue with it 09:47 -!- stenno\ito has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:47 fwiw, I think that no matter what solution (other than removing it) is used for Sokoban, it's important to integrate it more into the rest of the game 09:48 btw I usually use the drawbridge to kill the monsters easily (particularly L and R) 09:48 for example I think I'd altogether remove cheating penalties, and instead adjust the level layouts to make the easiest forms of cheating less beneficial 09:48 hmmmmmm... what if there was a "helloban" branch, i.e. a more difficult version of Sokoban in Gehennom? :D 09:48 one idea I've had is Sokoban rooms in the main dungeon, rather than as a branch 09:48 perhaps putting those in Gehennom would make sense, at least if it used a level generator where they didn't look out of place 09:50 EPI: mazeoban. It's a Sokoban branch in Gehennom that is mandatory to complete the game, and has full-screen mazes similar to regular Gehennom but with lots of holes and boulders. And very long boulder return paths. And undiggable unphaseable walls. And is no-teleport and no-levelport, of course. 09:50 ais523: YANI: The passtune can also be used to open drawbridges in demon lairs in Gehennom / later in the game (assuming some are added), but they don't give you any feedback of gears/tumblers; you have to learn the passtune at the castle to take advantage of them in the later levels 09:50 [hdf-us] [nh361] k2 (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Croesus, on T:24601 09:50 aosdict\ito: and the Valk quest? 09:50 does not address the problem with player skill, but makes it a little more useful 09:51 (to close them, they're open by default) 09:51 ais523: I suppose, though that one usually happens pre-castle 09:51 AmyBSOD\srn: better, not all the walls are undiggable and you have to dig the diggable ones to solve the puzlze 09:51 lol nice one :) 09:51 and there's no indication which ones are diggable? 09:51 one of the first levels added to the Evil Variant was a maze of diggable walls inside undiggable walls 09:51 hahaha :D 09:52 with DECgraphicisation chosen in a way that has no bearing on reality 09:52 shame you don't have the source code of the original evil variant anymore 09:52 what makes you think I don't have it? 09:52 what, you do??? I'd like to have it then *buuuuuuuuuuundlebundlebundlebun-dle-ling!* ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 09:53 wow, I just found the directory it was in and then closed my terminal by mistake, I guess my terminal is trying to stop me looking at it :-D 09:53 -!- raisse\splat has joined #hardfought 09:53 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse\splat] by ChanServ 09:53 haha, sounds like it must be truly evil then! 09:54 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 09:54 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 09:54 -!- raisse\splat has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:54 -!- raisse is now known as raisse\splat 09:57 AmyBSOD\srn: wow, this code is terrible, I can see why I didn't post it :-D 09:57 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 09:57 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 09:57 I can write up a complete list of features though, they shouldn't be hard to reimplement 09:58 ais523: that would be very nice, then I'd check them for possible inclusion in slex :) 09:58 good thing slex has an evilvariant mode, so I can constrain the most evil ones to that 10:00 I 10:00 ~ 10:00 Whoops, sorry. 10:00 I wonder if the 3G signal is good enough to play nethack (perhaps not given the above confusion) 10:00 ais523: this was before version control I assume? 10:01 aosdict\ito: I'm not sure if it was /before/, but it intentionally didn't use it 10:01 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:01 right, of course, because it's evil 10:03 -!- stenno\ito has joined #hardfought 10:12 AmyBSOD\srn: btw, where did you pop up at the castle? on the island with the small building or the island with the boulders? 10:12 boulders? 10:12 I popped up on an island surrounded by lava 10:12 yeah but which one? 10:12 coordinates were something like 45,07 or so 10:13 -!- Menche_ has joined #hardfought 10:14 hmm, I thought you could appear there when coming back up 10:14 *you couldn't 10:14 it was no problem because I had an amulet of flying and a wand of cold, but I wanted to throw it out there because not every character will necessarily have those tools at that point 10:15 I'm not too happy with the design of the lava castle anyway 10:17 -!- Menche__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:18 the problem is of course not that you can't cross it but that you might be stuck there and can't go down :-) 10:19 if you come back up on the right hand side you can always go back down and search for a means to cross the lava. on that side, you can even get to the upstairs with just a mean of digging 10:20 the easiest fix is probably to just make one lava tile to solid ground, so it is no longer an island 10:23 AmyBSOD\srn (and anyone else interested): http://nethack4.org/pastebin/evil-variant-changelog.txt 10:23 there are some changes there that I'd forgotten about 10:24 but in general it wasn't really very started, there isn't much there 10:24 ais523: yaaaaaaay many thanks! I'll put it to good use ♥ 10:24 I'm not sure there are any good uses for that :-D 10:24 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 10:25 (this was reverse-engineered from the source diff) 10:25 interestingly, I'm not even sure if the mixing of tabs and spaces was an intentional attempt to be evil, I only noticed on the diff 10:25 ais523: what, it doesn't actually remove wands of wishing? 10:26 that would take effort 10:26 part of the original vision of the Evil Variant was to be coded as lazily as possible 10:26 e.g. the floating eye mimic code is mostly a copy-and-paste of the floating eye code 10:26 heh...found it! 10:27 I originally got my start in programming nethack by going through the list of EPIs and implementing them. Unfortunately I don’t have the code anymore but it was fun to make 10:27 EVI: if the code were under version control, each successive commit must reindent all files by +1 or -1 space in the indent level, except for lines which are indented only with tabs, for which another tab is added. 10:27 This has the added bonus of git blame being rendered absolutely useless. 10:27 Perfection 10:28 AntiGulp: did you ever try to play it? :-D 10:29 aosdict\ito: it's worth noting that the Evil Variant didn't add any monsters, just overwrite existing ones 10:29 AntiGulp: was the tail end of that phase the early days of splicehack? 10:29 I wish this train 10:29 to avoid changing the number of things that exist, which is normally a dangerous operation in patching 10:30 * aosdict\ito gives Pinkbeast a blessed +2 train. Wish granted! 10:30 's brakes made less of a burninating smell when the brakes come on 10:30 part of the concept was that it was (conceptually) written by someone who was used to binary patching things where they don't have the source 10:30 the plan was to release it as a patch against the binary 10:30 Yup, that’s where monster wishing came from (still gotta remove that…). I tried to play it, but some of the patches, like all things dropped on the floor by the player being ruined, made it nearly unplayable. 10:31 it wouldn't surprise me if monsters could wish in FIQHack 10:31 Pinkbeast: your train is probably cursed, use the one aosdict\ito gave you 10:31 or at least lubricated with cursed oil 10:32 GAH I'd forgotten NetHack autopickups stuff you dropped 10:32 not the true NetHack 10:32 EPI: Autopickup cannot be turned off, and autopickup types is randomized when entering the dungeon 10:33 slightly more evil and slightly more playable at the same time: autopickup types are randomized whenever you save and restore 10:33 oooh 10:33 that way you could at least scum for a decent autopickup configuration 10:33 C'mon just give me fire res already (maybe I should go and get crowned) 10:34 any EPI that only adds annoyance and tedium is beyond E. 10:34 squarely in the realm of No Fun. 10:34 raisse\splat: none of these are intended to be good ideas 10:34 or remotely fun 10:35 some are funny even if not actually fun 10:36 Amnesia removes pickup types because you forget you wanted them 10:36 OK, that's fairly funy 10:36 *funny 10:36 that's actually funny 10:36 that’s funny 10:36 and it's arguably no more of an interface screw than the other effects of amnesia… 10:37 does amnesia affect #overview? I know it was suggested 10:37 ais523: at least in slex it does, and I got the overview patch from either bilious or another variant where it was also like that 10:37 if it doesn't, at least you know where the shops and altars are so you can look for them again 10:38 well, if you're playing an "extensive game" of NetHack where you spend a lot of time grinding 10:38 you normally end up with the levels memorised anyway 10:40 Something that's much easier in NetHack, I dunno why 10:40 it's because in NetHack a) the shape of the levels actually matters and b) they fit on the screen 10:40 in a game like DCSS the interface disorients you because you only see a small amount at a time, and there's rarely a reason to return to a cleared area 10:41 AntiGulp: Due to me looking up stuff on bilious to help with a dnh alchemist patch, I've found quite the treasure trove of historical YANIs. Most good ones will probably eventually make their way onto the archive, but you might be interested anyway. 10:41 There's something to that but my train just arrives 10:41 NetHack doesn't have cleared areas (other than special levels) and you always have your bearings 10:41 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 10:42 aosdict\ito: I would be interested! I’ve delved through bilious quite a lot, and there’s some cool stuff on there (wand of the infinite kitten, anyone?) 10:42 well, my original search term was "malcolm". take it from there 10:42 AntiGulp: a wand of infinite kittens seems problematic in NetHack 10:42 given what the player is likely to /do/ with an unlimited supply of monsters 10:43 yaaaaaay nethack4 gamestate corrupted when I dropped my bag of holding on the altar 10:43 at /best/ we can expect the kittens to be tamed (probably using kitten corpses) and used as slave labour to die in futile ways fighting legions of demons 10:43 ais523: meh, it's just marketing. the book of infinite spells doesn't have infinite spells either. 10:43 ais523: Trust me, it’s worse than that. It fills the entire level with kittens on ONE ZAP. I have no idea why it was made. 10:43 Like it’s funny, but also makes the game a mess 10:44 AntiGulp: there is a trap in slex that fills every open square on the current level with hostile monsters :D 10:44 AntiGulp: that seems pretty useful on Astral 10:45 -!- Menche__ has joined #hardfought 10:46 AmyBSOD\srn: aaaaaaaaaagh whyyyyyy 10:47 -!- Menche_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:48 because it's fun :) 10:50 it's only fun until it happens to you? 10:50 because if I judge by the way you reacted to the small obstacles in unnethack ... ;-) 10:50 heh, if you have the right equipment you might even be able to survive! 10:50 * ais523 starts wondering what a variant designed to maximally annoy AmyBSODsrn would look like 10:51 ais523: I got the feeling this junethack that several such variants do in fact exist :P 10:51 I don't plan to make it (it's the sort of thing I'd consider making and then reject), I'm just curious 10:51 un definitely has to be one 10:51 ais523: first, it would contain a bunch of the nasty things from slex, because apparently only slex is allowed to have such things without annoying her 10:51 aosdict\ito: given the way that slex is balanced I can sort-of understand that? 10:52 the player is overpowered in slex and it knows it 10:52 so it contains a number of things to try to give a challenge 10:52 put the same concept in a more balanced variant and it might not work 10:52 anyway, I feel like a maximally annoying variant would be very similar to NerfHack, a theoretical variant that contains _only_ nerfs 10:53 ah right, sporkhack is definitely designed to maximally annoy me and then some 10:53 like, seriously... you can't get anywhere in spork, at least if you're Amy :P 10:53 aosdict\ito: 3.6.0? :-D 10:53 (assume we're comparing to 3.4.3-nao, not 3.4.3-vanilla) 10:53 expert skill katana with 15 STR takes 5 hits for a bugbear... *scratches head* 10:53 3.6.0 buffed, um. 10:54 Skill slots 10:54 You get an extra one when you're crowned 10:54 ah right 10:54 that seems pretty small as buffs go, given that only spellcasters tend to have spell slot pressure as it is 10:55 for all skills slots or only the one of the weapon you're wielding while being crowned? 10:55 (I designed FIQHack's wand skill partly in an attempt to add more skill slot pressure to non-casters) 10:55 in fiqhack I spent three skill slots on polearms so I could actually kill the swarming electric eels at medusa 10:55 bhaak: probably to the overall cap 10:55 aosdict\ito: that sounds like a good thing for the game's balance 10:56 ais523: what, so you're the evil figure that made the wand destruction patch??? you demon spawned from hell :P the wand destruction patch is definitely also designed to annoy me 10:56 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:56 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 10:56 AmyBSOD\srn: it's intended to make wands less dangerous to the player in the earlygame and more dangerous in the lategame 10:56 -!- raisse\splat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:57 -!- raisse is now known as raisse\splat 10:57 well... lightning explosions and death fields are ultra annoying 10:57 AmyBSOD\srn: did you not know the primary source was http://nethack4.org/blog/wand-balance.html 10:57 and likewise, more powerful in player hands in the late game 10:57 AmyBSOD\srn: if you want another reason to curse ais523, he's the reason quicktravel is broken in unnethack :-D 10:57 FIQHack's version isn't identical to mine but it's close 10:57 and you can't turn off the explosions once you're skilled enough, even if in the given situation the beam would be better 10:57 bhaak: yes but it isn't broken in AceHack :-D 10:57 where you took the patch from 10:57 in fact, once you're skilled enough to get wand explosions, you're not even safe from your own wand zaps anymore despite the amulet of reflection! 10:57 it just has a latent bug that happens to be suppressed by other code in AceHack 10:57 bhaak: really? he shall fix it then :D 10:58 -!- stenno\ito has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:58 I think it's fixed in NH4? 10:58