00:24 [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Dra Ang Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:8837 00:24 [hdf-us] [fh] icebox (IceBox) (Val Dwa Fem Law), 34008 points, T:2939, killed by a rothe 00:26 !lastgame Luxidream 00:26 K2: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/nh343/dumplog/1528856719.nh343.txt 00:27 :/ 00:28 <[Demo][srn]> go to sleep I'm gonna and it's gonma.be good and I'm gonna be happy about it 00:29 [hdf-us] [4k] FuckAduck (mighty) (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 11307 points, T:4110, killed by a dwarf king 00:35 -!- stenno\ito has joined #hardfought 00:38 [hdf-us] [spl] bouquet (Dra Ang Fem Law), 12754 points, T:8986, killed by an energy vortex 00:39 energy vortex'd right in the face 00:39 <[Demo][srn]> I finally figured out a lot 00:39 -!- stenno\ito has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:49 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 00:53 -!- deadnoob_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:01 [hdf-us] [dnh] noty (Bar Vam Mal Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 oilskin cloak", on T:38511 01:03 <@FalseLobster> I want to kill this character but I'm not sure how 01:08 [hdf-us] [nh361] dizzylizzy (Kni Hum Mal Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:11123 01:12 -!- raisse\splat has joined #hardfought 01:12 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse\splat] by ChanServ 01:20 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:36 [hdf-us] [dnh] noty (Bar Vam Mal Cha) read the necronomicon for the first time, on T:41137 01:44 -!- AmyBSOD\srn has joined #hardfought 01:50 beep boop i'm a robot 01:58 Junethack: New user ElanDeMain registered! https://junethack.net/user/ElanDeMain 02:02 -!- raisse\splat has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:04 -!- raisse\splat has joined #hardfought 02:04 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse\splat] by ChanServ 02:04 !tell Lymia I sure hope that when you use panic digging, you engrave Elbereth first. 02:04 Will do, AmyBSOD\srn! 02:17 -!- mcw has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.6.3+deb1 - http://znc.in] 02:19 My knight is a dumb-dumb 02:19 Int 6 bay-beee 02:20 I keep turning level 2 spellbooks to dust, and then suddenly BOOM dig gets read in one go 02:20 sure likes playing in the mud 02:20 what a toolbag 02:33 -!- raisse\splat has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:36 -!- stenno\ito has joined #hardfought 02:41 dizzylizzy\ito: Yeah, love it when dumb valk reads polymorph on first try. 02:42 It is a bit unintuitive the order it works in :D 02:42 Lymia: Message from AmyBSOD\srn at 2018-06-13 02:04 EDT: I sure hope that when you use panic digging, you engrave Elbereth first. 03:00 -!- raisse\splat has joined #hardfought 03:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse\splat] by ChanServ 03:03 [hdf-us] [un] richards (Val Hum Fem Law) killed the Watcher in the Water, on T:22392 03:07 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Quit: two forces in balance \\ ancient endless balance \\ then nothing] 03:26 -!- deadnoob_ has joined #hardfought 03:29 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 03:29 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 03:30 -!- elenmirie is now known as elenmirie\splat 03:31 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:01 [hdf-us] [dnh] noty (Bar Vam Mal Cha) killed the Chromatic Dragon, on T:50283 04:03 !tell Chris_ANG the chromatic dragon (in gehennom) did not drop the scales 04:03 Will do, noty! 04:07 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 04:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] noty (Bar Vam Mal Cha) killed the invisible Yeenoghu, on T:50630 04:14 -!- deadnoob_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:16 -!- stenno\ito has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] noty (Bar Vam Mal Cha) wished for "uncursed +3 helm of opposite alignment", on T:50716 04:21 [hdf-us] [dnh] noty (Bar Vam Mal Cha) killed the creature in the ice, on T:50964 04:23 [hdf-us] [dnh] noty (Bar Vam Mal Cha) killed Leviathan, on T:51026 04:27 [hdf-us] [dnh] noty (Bar Vam Mal Cha) killed the Avatar of Lolth, on T:51160 04:33 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: rebooting] 04:36 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 04:51 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:56 ... so, I'm curious 04:56 If you were to rewrite Nethack 04:56 the eff would you do with rnz 04:56 it's an easy enough algorithm to recreate 04:57 the fact that it makes no sense doesn't make it hard to rewrite 04:57 "kill it with fire" is the only sensible answer to that 04:57 bhaak: Message from hothraxxa at 2018-06-12 18:52 EDT: [14:52] <+Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] hothraxxa (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Durin's Bane, on T:28950 but i didn't get the trophy :( 04:57 and generally I'd expect that if you were rewriting the game on a new engine/language, you'd initially try to keep the functionality the same 04:57 hothraxxa: has the game in question ended yet? typically speaking the tournament server only learns about games when they end 04:57 it's easy enough to recreate 99% of the functionality with much simpler code 04:58 rnz is just... 04:58 [hdf-us] [dnh] noty (Bar Vam Mal Cha) killed Daemon, on T:52519 04:58 random? 05:00 It is certainly something I'd rather be rid of if a sane (non-floating point, at least) replacement could be found 05:01 quoting the wiki: A call of rnz(350), for example, gives the base prayer timeout and will often return a number close to 350, sometimes a number somewhat less or somewhat more than 350, and rarely a number much greater or much less than 350. 05:01 the standard deviation is 1.04424x 05:02 something like rnz(x) -> x - x/10 + rnd(2*x/10) is probably good enough 05:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] noty (Bar Vam Mal Cha) killed Glasya, on T:52885 05:04 bhaak: no, that has no probability of very small results 05:04 sure but do they actually matter? 05:04 bhaak: you've never had to pray two turns in a row before now? 05:04 the very small results are so rare 05:04 I had but it never worked :) 05:04 the chance in vanilla is decently high if you have a major trouble 05:04 the chance with that formula is zero, I think 05:07 Junethack: New user Mima registered! https://junethack.net/user/Mima 05:09 [hdf-us] [un] Wolfechu (Ran Gno Fem Neu), 3167 points, T:1905, killed by a giant ant 05:14 you can always use a variation of the normal distribution but the main point is that going to reimplement an exact copy of rnz is useless work. people are going to have variant paranoia either way. 05:14 [hdf-us] [un] richards (Val Hum Fem Law) genocided disenchanters dungeon wide on T:28172 05:16 bhaak: a normal distribution is the opposite of what you want for rnz 05:16 if you want a pray to succeed, wait 700 turns, if you want to paranoic about it, wait 1400 turns. 05:16 rnz is for things that you want to be unpredictable, not for things that you want to be broadly predictable 05:17 but rnz is higly predictable 05:18 I think the behaviour you want is that it has a decent probability of small results, but also a decent probability of very large results, and a known median 05:18 this implies that probably the distribution we'd want is an exponential distribution 05:19 that said, some of the older devteam members were asked about it and they said it did approximately the right thing and they were pretty sure it wasn't patented (which is apparently a worry when it comes to RNG algorithms?) 05:21 ... shouldn't most distributions be way under prior art? 05:21 Statistics way predates computer science 05:22 the algorithm for drawing results from the distribution might not be 05:24 what about the changes I've made to rnz in slex? can I get that patented as "the ultimate random number algorithm that's the solution for all your RNG needs"? :D 05:24 What did you do to rnz :v 05:24 you changed rnz? why? 05:25 ais523: because it wasn't random enough ;) 05:26 basically, I removed the upper limit that it has in vanilla, so extremely high results, while ultra rare, are possible 05:26 USians are paranoid about software patents 05:26 i.e. rnz(350) can, in theory, produce a value of a million or higher in slex 05:26 you uncapped rne, not rnz didn't you 05:27 yes, but that also affects rnz 05:27 also I messed with the values for rne used in rnz 05:29 * Lymia shrugs 05:29 rnz isn't bad, I guess 05:29 It *is* deterministic for one 05:31 Rust's usual rand library is apparently full of CSPRNGs 05:31 So. 05:31 I guess that's one thing I don't have to be worried about? 05:31 I'm pretty sure Knuth already described several RNGs and those should have been out of patents in the 80s and then there are the whole lot of RNGs that Marsaglia described. but I'm not sure about the timeline of the latter 05:32 Lymia: CSPRNGs aren't necessarily nondeterministic 05:32 they should normally have a way to do entropy mixing if you want to use them for cryptography, but it makes sense to have one where the entropy mixing is done manually (or not at all) 05:32 but coding up something that is so obstruse it couldn't possibly have been patented before is truly a nethacky solution to the problem as well 05:32 Well. 05:33 It would be very useful for multiple reasons to have the whole program be deterministic after initial seeding. 05:33 So, a CSPRNG lets me do that without entropy mixing/reseeding and without worrying about RNG manipulation 05:33 NH4 does that 05:33 its random number generator doesn't have the full list of properties required to be a CSPRNG 05:34 but it does have enough of them to make it likely impossible to manipulate 05:43 Well. 05:43 If I have a csprng readily available in a library 05:43 Why not 05:43 What does nh4 use? 05:44 a counter going through a hash 05:44 that means that diffs of the RNG's internal state are small 05:45 Sounds slow 05:45 Though, I guess Nethack doesn't use the RNG enough to care. 05:46 It seems the library I'm using suggests "HC-128" 05:46 Apparently a eStream stream cipher. 05:51 hothraxxa: has the game in question ended yet? typically speaking the tournament server only learns about games when they end 05:51 it certainly has. orc with a wand of death got me 05:53 ouch 05:56 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:59 -!- Copenhagen_Bram has joined #hardfought 05:59 hallo 05:59 Hello Copenhagen_Bram, Welcome to #hardfought 05:59 hey Beholder 06:00 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:19 -!- raisse\splat is now known as raisse 06:19 !setmintc 5000 06:19 raisse: Min reported turncount for raisse set to 5000 06:19 -!- raisse is now known as raisse\splat 06:19 -!- Mandevil is now known as Mandevil\splat 06:26 -!- rebatela has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:31 [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Bar Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:63569 06:35 [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Bar Hum Fem Neu) killed Asmodeus, on T:63730 06:36 [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Bar Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:63814 06:42 [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Bar Hum Fem Neu) entered the Planes, on T:63929 06:42 [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Bar Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:63930 06:43 omg I just found something called "The CRPG Book Project", a 500+ pages book about role-playing games, and at https://online.flippingbook.com/view/422644/92/ it not only describes NetHack but even mentions SLEX! :D 06:47 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1] 06:51 yeah, that thing is pretty comprehensive 06:52 it also mentions unnethack ;) 06:53 [hdf-us] [nh361] wooble (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 271 points, T:1066, killed by a gnome zombie 06:58 https://crpgbook.wordpress.com/ 06:59 it has all the screenshots from the book (and more) on flickr 06:59 https://www.flickr.com/photos/crpgbook/albums 07:01 wtf it says the browser I'm using is not supported by flickr??? 07:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] wooble (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 1380 points, T:628, killed by a hill orc 07:02 dungeons of daggorath 07:02 \o/ 07:02 I loved that game. 07:02 [hdf-us] [nh361] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed +3 silver dragon scale mail", on T:15953 07:03 i did too 07:03 was one of my first CRPG's 07:03 TRS-80 woooo 07:04 and Tunnels of Doom (ti99/4a) 07:04 played all of the eye of the beholder series too 07:05 which surprisingly is not included in this CRPG project 07:14 -!- AmyBSOD\srn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:15 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_the_Beholder_(video_game) 07:21 !tell ais523 https://pastebin.com/WW1AgUMV < I think this would actually be my first pass on fixing rnz. This version fixes the extreme spikes towards lower values in each "level" of the right end. 07:21 Will do, Lymia! 07:38 !tell ais523 https://i.imgur.com/XG1Sq26.png 07:38 Will do, Lymia! 07:40 [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Bar Hum Fem Neu) killed Death, on T:64443 07:42 !tell ais523 My understanding of rnz is that something like this was the original developer's intent, except the under average case had an unintentional non-linearity causing the weird spiked pattern. 07:42 Will do, Lymia! 07:44 [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Bar Hum Fem Neu) killed Death, on T:64482 07:50 <@Tone\ootc> That book is full of nostalgia 😄 07:51 Hello 07:51 Hello Copenhagen_Bram, Welcome to #hardfought 07:52 lol 07:52 it's still questionable why there should be a sharp decline of the probability at 2*x 07:52 why is it not symmetric around x? 07:53 The long tail, at least, seems intentional 07:53 There's a small chance of very long prayer timeouts, etc 07:57 I've always been convinced the incomprehensibility is intentional too :) 07:58 if it's intentional, it's not good game design. players will either only pray in emergencies or wait until they are pretty sure it's safe. 07:59 could you plot the cumulative distribution function? it's much more interesting to know after how many turns the chance to succesfully pray is 50%, 75%, etc. 08:00 It's the same as rnz, basically 08:00 Just smoother 08:00 bhaak: the gods should be ineffable, so it's good design. :P 08:01 Fixing rnz is for the sake of variant devs :P 08:01 (disclaimer: I also think vanilla 3.4.3 gehennom is well-designed because it induced hell-simulating existential dread) 08:01 So they know what using it actually means 08:02 Wooble: that's a philosophical approach that most players won't able to follow :-p 08:02 bhaak, https://i.imgur.com/foOE7o0.png 08:03 The improved version is basically the same as rnz, just.. less weird in the early half 08:04 yeah, looks like it. so no change to "wait 2*x or 4*x" :) 08:04 1.0 isn't actually 100% on this graph, but it's close 08:04 is it in the original rnz? 08:04 I thought there's also a tiny chance that it isn't 08:04 Yeah 08:05 It only changes the behavior of rnz when x < the parameter, basically 08:05 Which is the half that's spiky 08:05 !tell ais523 I mean the left end btw opps 08:05 Will do, Lymia! 08:05 The right side is unchanged 08:09 bhaak, I could also do the 1<< thing to the right hand side to get rid of the overlap between the "stages" 08:09 But that's an EPI :) 08:09 Because it massively increases the chance of extreme prayer cooldowns 08:11 well, I'd rather think what would be better for gameplay purposes than look pretty on a graph :) 08:12 1/32ish chance of prayer timeout being... 08:12 * Lymia calculates 08:13 2800-5600 08:13 and it gets worse if rne returns 4 08:13 :D 08:14 And you aint praying again if rne returns 5 08:14 I hope Amy doesn't hear 08:15 Is Mr Splat what Tangles_ calls their unique death characers 08:15 :P 08:16 actually jitterbug is fairly unique I guess :) 08:16 not exactly what I was going for :P 08:18 -!- AmyBSOD\srn has joined #hardfought 08:23 ;) 08:32 [hdf-us] [un] richards (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Lord Surtur, on T:34914 08:32 Lymia: I hear everything :P slex's rnz is, as I stated earlier, already quite random, but thanks for the suggestion 08:32 [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Sam Hum Mal Law) genocided arch-liches dungeon wide on T:38957 08:32 [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Sam Hum Mal Law) genocided master liches dungeon wide on T:38958 08:33 Lymia: Can you graph the PMF? 08:33 PMF? 08:33 Lymia: can you graph slex's rnz? ;) 08:34 isnt it basically the same 08:34 Lymia: https://pastebin.com/raw/Y8gzZA1A 08:35 Lymia: well I was interested in seeing how the < x side stacked up against vanilla's 08:36 you showed the CDF graph, I was wondering what the PMF looked like 08:36 In what sense? I showed ais this earlier: https://i.imgur.com/XG1Sq26.png 08:36 Or, well 08:36 !tell'd 08:37 oh I missed that 08:40 AmyBSOD\srn, https://i.imgur.com/BhQAkbD.png 08:40 :) 08:41 what? that looks almost the same... 08:41 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 08:42 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 08:42 yay, Chris_ANG is here! Chris_ANG: did you fiercely buff the player monsters on the samurai quest? they take ages to kill! 08:43 ryoshu is supposed to be level 14-17, yet they absorb 30+ hits whereas I can kill a stalker in 2-3 08:43 Well, people had been after me for *ages* to make monster AC more like player AC. I think what you're seeing there is the wonders of negative AC. 08:43 Chris_ANG: Message from noty at 2018-06-13 04:03 EDT: the chromatic dragon (in gehennom) did not drop the scales 08:44 oh damn... 08:44 AmyBSOD\srn, your rnz isn't that different from vanilla rnz 08:44 who are those people? I'll have some words for them! :P 08:44 Now you know what the monsters feel like :P 08:44 Unless the rng decides to screw you over. 08:44 Chris_ANG: the AC formula in vanilla doesn't work, though 08:44 ais523: Message from Lymia at 2018-06-13 07:21 EDT: https://pastebin.com/WW1AgUMV < I think this would actually be my first pass on fixing rnz. This version fixes the extreme spikes towards lower values in each "level" of the right end. 08:44 ais523: Message from Lymia at 2018-06-13 07:38 EDT: https://i.imgur.com/XG1Sq26.png 08:44 ais523: Message from Lymia at 2018-06-13 07:42 EDT: My understanding of rnz is that something like this was the original developer's intent, except the under average case had an unintentional non-linearity causing the weird spiked pattern. 08:44 ais523: Message from Lymia at 2018-06-13 08:05 EDT: I mean the left end btw opps 08:44 What is your weapon like? Thirty hits seems too high. 08:45 +0 Excalibur and +1 katana, dual-wielded, long sword at skilled and twoweaponing at expert, STR18 DEX18 08:45 [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Sam Hum Mal Law) killed Medusa, on T:39700 08:46 -!- stenno\ito has joined #hardfought 08:47 You know that two-weaponing is capped by weapon skill, right? 08:47 So you are actually two-weaponing at skilled. 08:47 yes, but the restriction on the off-hand weapon is removed at expert :P 08:48 (that restriction has no place in the game at all IMHO, but that's another matter) 08:48 it'd make sense if only some weapons were usable as offhands so that optimal weapon skilling was more interesting 08:49 say, longsword skill is best for good mainhand weapons but it's no use for any offhand… 08:49 as it is there's basically no skill in weapon choice in vanilla 08:50 IMHO the real problem is that long sword simply has the best artifact choices, and one good saber-class artifact also exists, while e.g. short swords have none at all, so of course no one ever trains short sword skill 08:50 but base longswords are just better than base shortswords in every way 08:50 yeah that too 08:50 so even if shortswords did have good artifacts you'd train longswords as it is 08:50 * raisse\splat likes trident for offhand weapon 08:50 -!- stenno\ito has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:50 raisse\splat: how do they compare to katanas? 08:50 probably worse but it's such a fun thing :-) 08:51 I don't usually look up weapon damage 08:51 samurai don't even have trident skill, so... 08:51 hmm, tridents do appear to be better on average, most likely? 08:51 ais523: Well, if shortswords have *good* artifacts, like fourk does with fire and frost brand... 08:51 SLASH'EM does have one or two short sword artifacts I think 08:52 yep: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Doomblade 08:52 and slex has a few hundred? 08:52 :D 08:52 slex has randarts in addition to the normal artifacts: ones whose base item is randomized at game start 08:52 Really, Amy. 08:53 really what? 08:53 Why not ditch 95% of those artifacts and implement Elona artifacts. 08:53 :D 08:53 I don't like the way randarts work in DCSS because there are too many of them and thus they effectively become interchangeable after a while 08:53 like, you just use whatever randart has the best stats and fits your playstyle/skilling 08:54 (I found a Doomblade in slex once, surprisingly, despite the artifact count) 08:54 (And by "found" I mean, my pet found it before I noticed it existed) 08:55 * Chris_ANG disappears under a pile of twoweapon logic..... 08:58 Elona-style artifacts does probably have the advantage that it doesn't make artiwishing opop 09:00 Is 4k that nasty 09:00 Lymia: everyone and their mother is scurrier scumming 09:00 [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Sam Hum Mal Law) shouted "4k can be nasty", on T:40448 09:04 scurrier scumming? :D 09:04 What gave you that idea? 09:05 >>>>>>>>>> :) 09:05 * Chris_ANG emerges briefly 09:06 what are the scurriers scumming for? 09:06 oh 09:06 What's the scurrier race get 09:06 AmyBSOD\srn: You would still be better off raising longsword to expert, though the actual effect on your damage is probably not that great. 09:06 That's worth scumming with? 09:06 Chris_ANG: yes, I need another level up though because you didn't increase the # of skill slots you get :P 09:06 Oh. Well, I did if you're human :P 09:07 -!- attie\ito has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07 man I need holy water, but all the altars so far are in Susanowo temples 09:08 got a stack of 8 identify scrolls that wants to be blessed 09:08 which of the alignment quests has an altar? chaos? 09:08 is there an unaligned alignment quest? 09:09 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 09:09 ais523: I think you just gave me an idea :P 09:09 I was about to YANI it 09:09 the question is though, where do I place it 09:09 and what shall be the contents of it? 09:10 it should definitely count as being in Gehennom even if it isn't placed in Gehennom 09:10 However, I think you're exaggerating the amount of damage you do :/ 09:10 Oh, wait. 09:11 cockatrice zombies... seriously? 09:11 Yes, that can happen. 09:12 wouldn't the zombie attempting to zombify the cockatrice turn to stone in the process? 09:12 ooh spellbook of charm monster 09:12 Um. 09:12 Lymia: Scurriers get high speed and very fast digging innately. 09:12 that sounds more like a speedrun role than a scumming role 09:12 ~They come from Dread Seraph levels?~ 09:13 [hdf-us] [xnh] Silver2195 (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 14286 points, T:14908, killed by a fire ant 09:13 cockatrice zombies... seriously? 09:13 those exist in slex i believe 09:13 Or I saw one once :v 09:13 aosdict\ito, oooh 09:13 (Where dead things spontaneously revive as zombies) 09:13 Dig for victory scumming? 09:13 Chris_ANG: top level of the mines, don't think a dread seraph is there 09:14 Well, clearly things move between levels when you aren't looking. 09:14 -!- attie has joined #hardfought 09:14 what, they do? 09:15 joke 09:15 :D 09:15 But presumably that is the explanation for monsters spawning. 09:15 yeah, in vanilla they always spawn outside the player's sight; I changed that in slex because I'm evil :P 09:17 the reason they usually (not always!) spawn outside LOS in vanilla is because it kind-of breaks the immersion otherwise 09:17 if the monster is coming from outside LOS you don't know how they got onto the level so you don't have to explain that 09:17 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 09:17 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 09:17 ais523: To finally respond to what you said earlier: I think the vanilla system works fine in the 10 to -10 range, which is where most monster ACs are. 09:17 -!- bort13 has joined #hardfought 09:18 Vanilla AC system, that is. 09:18 AmyBSOD\srn: Is your Excalibur blessed? 09:18 yes, and rustproof 09:18 You will probably notice large differences in damage between targets. 09:19 It is +3d7 (+21 avg) vs monsters that are sensitive to blessed weapons. 09:19 wow that's quite a lot of bonus damage 09:20 how is +3d7 an avg of 21 09:20 Base damage is... 2d10? 09:20 (11 avg) 09:20 lol 09:20 gotcha 09:20 average of a d7 is 4, so average of 3d7 is 12 09:20 That's the "can't do math" average :D 09:20 i got scared for the rng 09:20 which is still a lot 09:20 -!- Borto has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:21 So Tangles is digging for victory? :P 09:21 Yes, the typical bonus is only 1d4 09:21 more like digging for trophies and unique deaths 09:22 oh, unique death scumming 09:22 makes sense 09:23 Hm, 18 str is only +2 damage. 09:23 [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Bar Hum Fem Neu) killed Pestilence, on T:64511 09:23 <@IceBox> how do you see other player's RC files? Or some good fancy examples? The wiki has all the info, but i'd like a foundation to start from 😃 09:23 c - * a stone red gem 09:23 hmm 09:23 lol, and oops. 09:23 was in one of the coffin-boxes on Vlad's level 09:24 where'd it.... 09:24 weird. 09:24 @IceBox some servers make people's RC files public; there isn't a general way 09:24 <@IceBox> good to know, thanks! 09:24 NAO makes them public, I can fetch a link for you if you need one (there's a bot but it's only here on IRC, not on Discord) 09:24 I'm not sure whether hardfought makes them public 09:24 !rc Tangles 09:24 that's why we don't quaff-test potions. 09:24 yay expert long sword now! 09:24 at least, not via a bot 09:25 ais523: beholder does not know !rc 09:25 yeah, and what rc would it default to anyway 09:25 the user on Hardfought with the same username as the IRC user using it 09:25 it's in https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/T/Tangles 09:26 ais523: no, I mean, which variant 09:26 oh, right, I forgot about per-variant 09:26 you'd probably have to specify 09:26 granted, you could make it take another argument, yes 09:26 [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Bar Hum Fem Neu) killed Pestilence, on T:64542 09:26 @IceBox: in NH4 and its derivatives, the default configuration is meant to be the best one for general use for players who don't want excessive spoilers 09:27 you can tweak it a bit to add spoiler information into the interface (autopickup and the like), but I wanted to avoid that 09:27 Autopickup is "spoiler information"? 09:28 the setting of autopickup can be considered this 09:28 like it's a bad idea to pick up stones 09:28 <@IceBox> oh yeah i'm over the spoilers, just looking for some nice colors and pickup rules to start with 09:28 I hope default isn't autopickup on 09:29 TROPHY GET! 09:29 [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Bar Hum Fem Neu) killed Famine, on T:64561 09:29 <@IceBox> BUC coloring and pickup_types were easy enough to set 09:29 Lymia: the default puts autopickup on only for things that aren't too heavy 09:29 ais523: Not sure if you were here yesterday or if this exists in nh4, but I noticed in fourk there's no way to type-name loadstones unless you pick them up, which is inconsistent 09:29 <@IceBox> i think the default pickup_types is set to "all" so that was annoying 09:30 Lymia: default rules in NH4: do not autopickup shop items; otherwise, pick up gold, scroll, ring, wand, potion 09:30 ah 09:30 That's not so bad. 09:30 aosdict\ito: NH4 has a name-by-appearance but doesn't let you select items on the ground outside inventory 09:31 this is because you can't distinguish gray stones outside inventory, and I wanted to keep the behaviour similar to vanilla's 09:31 I can see an argument for giving gray stones unidentified appearances rather than having them all look the same, though… 09:31 well vanilla has call-on-floor 09:31 but it doesn't work on gray stones? that's weird 09:31 and probably intentional because it seems hard to do that by mistake 09:31 vanilla call-on-floor DOES work on gray stones. 09:32 Of course, that was added after NH4 was developed. 09:32 oh, I see 09:32 and Fourk works like NH4 in this respect 09:32 it's consistent, though, in the sense that all same-appearance items work that way 09:33 the inconsistency is: if the character were to pick up the stone they could then type-name it and recognize ones in the future. Your character can see the one on the floor and should thus be able to recognize others. But there's no way to actually make the game recognize this. 09:33 (Short of picking up the stone) 09:34 !setmintc 1000 09:34 Tangles_: Min reported turncount for tangles_ set to 1000 09:34 !setmintc 09:34 Tangles_: Min reported turncount for tangles_ removed. 09:34 -!- Tangles_ is now known as Tangles 09:34 !setmintc 1000 09:34 Tangles: Message from @Tone\ootc at 2018-06-12 21:49 EDT: Another 361 curses oddity - Entered VotD, Elvenking shot me with arrows, then the options window opened up automatically. Turn 26189. 09:34 Tangles: Message from @Tone\ootc at 2018-06-12 22:08 EDT: The options screen just opened up again while I was moving quickly with the number pad, maybe it's related to that. 09:34 Tangles: Message from @Tone\ootc at 2018-06-12 22:11 EDT: Moved left onto one of the castle's trap doors, fell to votd, continued moving left (with the numpad), and the options menu opened up (T:26534). There's definitely something with numpad movement that's opening up the options screen I think? Or maybe it's related to the trapdoor or changing levels? 09:34 Tangles: Min reported turncount for tangles set to 1000 09:34 * aosdict\ito always reads it as "set mint c" 09:35 dammit my disguise is ruined! 09:35 [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Bar Hum Fem Neu), 3427166 points, T:64580, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/E/Eleven/nh361/dumplog/1528395734.nh361.txt 09:35 Oh I already saw those anyway. Yeah it's something to 09:36 do with escape sequneces and timing, I think. 09:37 Tangles: this is the same thing as your armour being displayed in vanilla 09:37