00:08 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] toneLive (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) killed Death, on T:46513
00:13 <bouquet> Is there a way to require confirmation if attacking with a weapon?  In aid of preventing breaking weaponless conduct.
00:14 <bouquet> blew it with my great monk run by accidentally hitting something with a pick axe.
00:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] toneLive (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) killed Death, on T:46550
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00:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] Lymia (Mah Wis Mal Cha) averted death, on T:7384
00:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] toneLive (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) killed Death, on T:46604
00:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] toneLive (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) killed Death, on T:46622
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00:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] toneLive (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:46634
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00:22 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] toneLive (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 2139830 points, T:46647, ascended
(sorry, no dump exists for nh361:toneLive)
00:29 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] Lymia (Mah Wis Mal Cha), 48627 points, T:8743, killed by a monster (giant mummy)
00:35 <rld> <@Tone> \o/
00:35 <rld> <@Tone> First conduct game I've done in a while
00:35 <rld> <@Tone> Wishless Polyitemless Polyselfless Genoless
00:35 <rld> <@Tone> Probably the first time I've ever gone an entire game without a bag of holding too
00:42 <bouquet> woof! No BoH takes discipline. Good work!
00:43 <aosdict> I award you the ais523 BoHless Medal of Honor.
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01:01 <PavelB> Why's it named after ais?
01:01 <PavelB> aosdict: You should add that as a conduct: Never picked up a container.
01:42 <aosdict> it's named after ais because ais likes to do esoteric challenge runs and specifically is proud of ascending using a chest as his main item container
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03:54 <Mandevil> You feel lackluster.
03:54 <Mandevil> Meh
03:56 <Mandevil> Damn, fell into the moat.
03:57 <Mandevil> I didn't record the depth of the VS level.
03:57 <Mandevil> That's so lame.
03:57 <Mandevil> And the overview doesn't record it.
04:00 <Mandevil> Wow.
04:01 <Mandevil> I arrived at the Sanctum.
04:01 <Mandevil> Purple L ported to me and summoned Demogorgon.
04:01 <Mandevil> All during the first two turns.
04:04 <Mandevil> Sigh.
04:04 <Mandevil> I landed away from the stairs.
04:05 <Mandevil> OK, I'll finish this later.
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08:44 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Mon Elf Fem Cha), 36916 points, T:3781, killed by a soldier ant
09:01 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] aosdict (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:28312
09:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] aosdict (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed Yeenoghu, on T:28346
09:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] LoadedDice (Mon Mer Mal Neu), 13398 points, T:5255, killed by a velociraptor
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09:17 <stenno> this will be a sub-15k ascension if i win
09:17 <stenno> which is nice
09:20 <stenno> aosdict: is this paranoid trap walking configurable?
09:20 <stenno> because that will be a PITA on plane of fire :P
09:26 <stenno> oops
09:26 <stenno> :P
09:26 <stenno> Mandevil: what did you get?
09:26 <Mandevil> I got spellbook of protection
09:26 <Mandevil> WHY?
09:26 <stenno> identigy
09:26 <stenno> typo
09:26 <Mandevil> But normally you get "no such object exists"?
09:27 <stenno> but 'blessed spellbook' exists
09:27 <stenno> and thats enough for the wish parser
09:27 <Mandevil> I want to rage quite.
09:27 <Mandevil> quit
09:27 <stenno> :(
09:27 <Mandevil> I got amnesiaed to hell.
09:27 <Mandevil> Forgot even the identify scroll.
09:27 <Mandevil> And now this.
09:27 <stenno> ouch ouch
09:27 <Mandevil> Also forgot the amulet on dlvl 36.
09:28 <Mandevil> So I am returning from that extra round trip.
09:28 <Mandevil> One last wish and I get "blessed spellbook".
09:28 <Mandevil> I need to cool down.
09:29 <Mandevil> How do people prevent amnesia? I got sucked even with greased helm.
09:29 <Mandevil> And of course wand of death is there mainly to miss everything.
09:29 <stenno> the only surefire way seems to be geno-ing h
09:30 <Mandevil> I thought I will do a genocideless run.
09:30 <Mandevil> Now I regret not genociding L/h
09:30 <stenno> happened to me too that there was a trap door, i fell down, next to mmf, and he got the turn
09:30 <Mandevil> Amnesia is total bullshit, though.
09:30 <stenno> thats true
09:30 <Mandevil> You just need to go to your ttyrec and can recover everything.
09:30 <stenno> it is a really bullshit mechanism 
09:30 <stenno> poor metagaming
09:31 <Mandevil> It just is tedious and uninteresting.
09:31 <stenno> bad game design
09:31 <Mandevil> I have wrest wish.
09:31 <aosdict> stenno: Should be able to turn it off in the options, yes.
09:32 <stenno> aosdict: nice, thanks
09:32 <Mandevil> But there's an master lich I cannot kill without going all the way to upstairs on non-tele levels.
09:32 <LarienTelrunya> I ♥ amnesia (and orctown for that matter)
09:32 <aosdict> I should nuke amnesia before junethack starts
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09:33 <stenno> orctown is not comparable to amnesia on the bullshit meter
09:33 <stenno> orctown is just evil and means and sucks
09:33 <stenno> but i wouldn't call it 'bad game design'
09:34 <LarienTelrunya> last year, I think it was unnethack (if not, it was dyna), where Cthulhu flayed me a dozen or so times and I had to do the ascension run remembering absolutely *nothing*. Nope, I didn't peek at the ttyrecs. Ascended anyway :P
09:35 <stenno> amnesia and mysterious force have special places in the bullshit hall of fame
09:35 <stenno> hall of shame
09:36 <Mandevil> Along with the warping mechanic.
09:36 <LarienTelrunya> oh, for the mysterious force I agree that it is absolute bullshit, IMHO by far the shittiest "feature" of vanilla
09:36 <stenno> what do you mean with that, Mandevil ?
09:36 <Mandevil> Warping to upstairs.
09:36 <stenno> oh
09:36 <Mandevil> I currently have two purple L active.
09:36 <stenno> vlad is really hard in 3.6.1
09:36 <stenno> ouch yeah
09:36 <Mandevil> While still trying to travel to upstairs.
09:37 <Mandevil> stenno: Hard?
09:37 <Mandevil> stenno: How so?
09:37 <LarienTelrunya> covetous AI in vanilla is also on my dislike list, since it means you can't kill arch-liches at all unless you somehow get on the upstair
09:37 <stenno> he flees to the upstairs
09:37 <stenno> of his tower
09:37 <stenno> and in my xnethack he proceeded to flee into gehennom
09:38 <stenno> xnethack game
09:38 <Mandevil> One of the L's summoned _peaceful_ Geryon.
09:38 <LarienTelrunya> stenno: did you ever play Grunthack and fought Vlad there? ;)
09:38 <stenno> i know that he has c?oTele
09:39 <Mandevil> OMG, another major demon summoned (Yeenoghu).
09:39 <Mandevil> So until now liches have summoned: Juibles, Demogorgon, Geryon, Yeenoghu.
09:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] krm26 (Car Hum Fem Neu), 504 points, T:890, killed by a dwarf
09:39 <Pinkbeast> This could be worse in that dangerous things about Yeenoghu 1) he can summon Demogorgon 2) err
09:40 <stenno> man that sounds like a terrible game
09:40 <stenno> Mandevil: didn't you have this weird summonstorm on air once?
09:40 <stenno> i seem to remember something
09:40 <Mandevil> stenno: No.
09:40 <stenno> and you were paci? or weaponless?
09:40 <stenno> ah then it was someone else
09:40 <Mandevil> stenno: But I got Demo in the Sanctum.
09:41 <stenno> at some point you have this little metagame: "am i really going to walk through all this tedium"
09:42 <stenno> or just quit and start new
09:42 <Pinkbeast> Mandevil: Nowhere near the downstairs either?
09:42 <Mandevil> I have one blessed scroll of geno.
09:42 <stenno> i found it a bit strange that bhaak left cthulhu amnesia tbh
09:43 <Mandevil> Pinkbeast: I am converging on, but it's slow with so many purple monsters attacking me.
09:44 <Pinkbeast> There's much to be said for teleport control
09:44 <Mandevil> Problem is I don't know which of my scrolls is the genocide.
09:45 <stenno> aosdict: i didn't particularly notice enemies spawning on the upstairs in xnethack asc run
09:45 <stenno> aosdict: was i just lucky or didn't you implement that
09:45 <stenno> lucky/unobservant
09:46 <stenno> i am currently still in gehennom tho
09:47 <stenno> eh lemme ascend first i guess
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09:56 <Mandevil> There is a small glob of green slime here; eat it? [ynq] (n)
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09:56 <Mandevil> Nice try, RNG.
09:57 <[Demo]> begone satan
09:57 <K2> heh
09:58 <LarienTelrunya> [Demo]: are you also looking forward to the junethack registration? apparently it opens tomorrow already!
09:58 <[Demo]> yey
09:58 <[Demo]> Wait that means I have shit I gotta get done soon
09:59 <LarienTelrunya> well it's "only" the registration that will open ;)
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09:59 <[Demo]> Yeah but I have some other shit that day and it's not good to think it's so close and I still don't have things worked out
09:59 <LarienTelrunya> gotta make sure that the slexy robber nymphets will have a bunch of good players though, I wonder if Tariru is already in the clutches of one of the other clans?
10:00 <[Demo]> idk
10:00 <[Demo]> but shill really hard like u do
10:00 <LarienTelrunya> yep :)
10:00 <aosdict> stenno: Enemies don't spawn on the upstairs, no.
10:00 <LarienTelrunya> hmm, Tariru played in 2016's tournament but was in no clan
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10:01 <LarienTelrunya> !tell Tariru if you're going to play in junethack, I want to cordially invite you into the slexy robber nymphets clan :)
10:01 <Beholder> Will do, LarienTelrunya!
10:01 <stenno> yeah i saw that
10:01 <stenno> aosdict: is it intended that i can raze iron doors with /oDig?
10:01 <aosdict> No...
10:01 <stenno> :P
10:02 <[Demo]> I'm gonna put on my iron shirt
10:02 <stenno> and chase the devil out of earth
10:02 <aosdict> stenno: Are you saying that it works?
10:02 <stenno> aosdict: yep
10:02 <aosdict> Because it doesn't work in my wizmode game.
10:02 <stenno> huh
10:02 <aosdict> "The door shudders slightly."
10:02 <stenno> maybe i just confused something then, sorry
10:02 <stenno> mm
10:02 <stenno> maybe this is an older version of xnethack?
10:02 <[Demo]> so jnh is definitely gonna happen now on dnh 3.15.1
10:03 <[Demo]> this is gonna be bad for me
10:03 <aosdict> hdf-eu should not be that far out of date
10:03 <stenno> aosdict: maybe i just confused something
10:03 <aosdict> this change was a while ago
10:03 <[Demo]> cause its so broken in so many ways
10:03 <stenno> well i started the game like, idk, several weeks ago
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10:03 <[Demo]> and a lot of them are a pain in the ass
10:03 <aosdict> stenno: the change was months and months ago
10:03 <LarienTelrunya> [Demo]: would be great if dnhslex participated ;)
10:03 <stenno> noted
10:03 <aosdict> will test on this iron door in my current hdf game since I have so many spare /oDig
10:03 <[Demo]> dnhslex isn't much less broken
10:04 <aosdict> yeah, same thing, door isn't razed
10:04 <stenno> yeah ok then i screwed up, sorry
10:04 <[Demo]> I really wanna do an orc of the age of stars with fiq trick for a lot of hp
10:05 <[Demo]> @d?orc of the age of stars
10:05 <Beholder> No such monster.
10:05 <[Demo]> goddamit
10:05 <[Demo]> I can't remember the pluralizations
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10:05 <stenno> orc of the age of starses
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10:06 <LarienTelrunya> neverwases
10:06 <[Demo]> worms that walkses
10:06 <LarienTelrunya> sephirahs :D
10:06 <[Demo]> Chris should be back soon I'd think
10:06 <[Demo]> doesn't he usually come back for the summer?
10:07 <aosdict> orcses of the ageses of starses
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10:08 <LarienTelrunya> omg good thing I appraised this random sling dropped by a hobbit: +4!
10:08 <[Demo]> wow
10:09 <[Demo]> what does that do?
10:09 <stenno> a +4 sling hey
10:09 <[Demo]> bonus tohit?
10:09 <stenno> +4 to hit
10:09 <LarienTelrunya> and sling is one of only five weapons that I can learn :)
10:09 <[Demo]> it's still a sling
10:09 <[Demo]> don't slings suck?
10:09 <LarienTelrunya> SLASH'EM thankfully made it so that enchantments on launchers give +multishot, approximately enchantment value / 3 extra shots every time you fire
10:10 <[Demo]> extra rockin
10:11 <[Demo]> I really look forward to having fun livelogs in a few days
10:11 <FIQ> @d??orc of the age of stars
10:11 <Beholder> No such monster.
10:11 <[Demo]> with interesting timestamps and a lot of wishes for the same thing
10:11 <FIQ> @d??asogppweokg
10:11 <Beholder> No such monster.
10:11 <FIQ> hmm
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10:11 <FIQ> what was the method to force a correction
10:12 <LarienTelrunya> @@d?orc of the age of starses
10:12 <Beholder> orc of the age of starses ~14~ Lich, the Fiend of Earth (L) | Lvl: 11 | Diff: 13 | Spd: 6 | Res: cold sleep poison drain | Confers: cold | MR: 30 | Generates: unique | AC: 0 | Attacks: 1d10 touch cold, 1d10 touch paralyze | Alignment: -9 | Flags: breathless, regenerates, poisonous, undead
10:12 <stenno> i was correct
10:12 <stenno> amazing
10:12 <[Demo]> wow it's dumb
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10:13 <stenno> the only thing i am scared about now is plane of water
10:13 <[Demo]> @@d?orc of the age of the stars
10:13 <Beholder> orc of the age of the stars ~16~ Lich, the Fiend of Earth (L) | Lvl: 11 | Diff: 13 | Spd: 6 | Res: cold sleep poison drain | Confers: cold | MR: 30 | Generates: unique | AC: 0 | Attacks: 1d10 touch cold, 1d10 touch paralyze | Alignment: -9 | Flags: breathless, regenerates, poisonous, undead
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10:13 <[Demo]> well fuck you too beholder
10:14 <[Demo]> what sucks is I have monst.c open in tmux pane 1 of session 2 but i can't see it cause I'm on my phone and I really don't wanna ssh from my phone rn
10:14 <stenno> i'd call 3.6 plane of water Problematic tbh
10:14 <LarienTelrunya> FIQ: I'm pretty sure you're already planning to be in another clan, but I'll ask you anyway: do you want to mix things up and be part of the slexy robber nymphets this year? we could use a player with your level of skill to give the other clans a hard time :)
10:15 <[Demo]> @d?orc of the ages of stars
10:15 <Beholder> No such monster.
10:15 <[Demo]> Ok that's wrong
10:15 <stenno> whats the difference between @@ and @ ?
10:15 <[Demo]> monst.c has it in there with that name
10:16 <Pinkbeast> @@ is two humans standing next to each other.
10:16 <stenno> that is true
10:16 <[Demo]> or two elves
10:16 <stenno> but apparently @ and @@ are also beholder bot triggers
10:16 <[Demo]> don't be racist
10:17 <LarienTelrunya> Pinkbeast! are you going to play in junethack too? I'd loooooooooooooooooooooooooove to have you in my clan (insert arbitrary number of hearts here) :)
10:18 <FIQ> LarienTelrunya: I am going to be part of ootc
10:19 <FIQ> stenno: try FIQHack plane of water
10:19 <FIQ> [Demo]: so probably Beholder is just outdated
10:19 <stenno> maybe i will in junethack
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10:20 <[Demo]> ootas has been in dnh for a long time
10:21 <stenno> i will keep some spare ?oMM for water, saw greqrg doing that on his game yesterday
10:21 <stenno> that makes it just a little bit better
10:21 <Mandevil> stenno: ???
10:21 <Mandevil> stenno: Mapping on water?
10:21 <stenno> yeah
10:21 <stenno> shows the bubbles (and the portal if you found it already)
10:21 <greqrg> It's very helpful if you have scrolls to spare
10:21 <stenno> like only for a turn of course
10:22 <Mandevil> Well, you still have to passively wait...
10:22 <stenno> yeah
10:22 <greqrg> or extra marker charges
10:22 <Mandevil> Or use magical breathing.
10:22 <stenno> well i _do_ have 1:1 wow left
10:22 <stenno> oh no but ammy slot is taken by "oRef
10:22 <FIQ> stenno: FIQHack blocks levitation/flying, makes all swimming monsters double speed, makes water elementals have a drowning attack, but makes all bubbles visible at all times
10:23 <stenno> hmm
10:23 <FIQ> this way I figured plane of water would not be as trivial difficulty-wise, and actually not be a huge chore to complete
10:23 <stenno> sounds challenging
10:23 <stenno> right
10:23 <greqrg> FIQ Do water elementals still have that engulf attack?
10:23 <stenno> makes ; geno more attractive
10:23 <Mandevil> FIQ: Drowning attack like ; do?
10:23 <FIQ> greqrg: yes, engulf drowning attack
10:23 <FIQ> Mandevil: no, engulf drown attack
10:23 <stenno> can't even geno E
10:23 <FIQ> it engulfs you and then you basically have a strangulation timer
10:24 <stenno> also what i learned TODAY, after playing nethack for like 10 years or so, is a thing about alchemy
10:24 <greqrg> If ; are double speed, they can drown you in one turn, right?
10:24 <FIQ> I also changed strangulation timer to, instead of 5, be 2/3*con
10:25 <FIQ> greqrg: Yes, theoretically
10:25 <stenno> so i thought, in order to get, say, 5 potions of extra healing, you'd have to dip 5 potions of healing into one potion of speed
10:25 <FIQ> Of course, since the entire plane is visible, you see them at all times
10:25 <FIQ> and you're safe from drowning inside the bubbles
10:25 <stenno> as it turns out apparently you can also dip 5 potions of speed into one potion of healing
10:25 <stenno> i was not aware of this fact for all those years
10:25 <Mandevil> stenno: Hehe, that's a neat trick.
10:25 <LarienTelrunya> didn't 3.6.x change alchemy, in that not all the potions are alchemized every time?
10:26 <Mandevil> Yes.
10:26 <raisse> yes it did
10:26 <stenno> well yeah but that mechanism still exist
10:26 <stenno> if i only knew that earlier
10:26 <raisse> I didn't know that speed into healing worked too
10:26 <stenno> idk how many literal hundreds of games that would've saved me
10:26 <stenno> well literal dozens
10:26 <Mandevil> Do I need to levitate in 3.6.1 water?
10:27 <stenno> its like 3.6.0
10:27 <Mandevil> Is it like 3.4.3?
10:27 <FIQ> Mandevil: No, in 3.6.x, levi/fly is blocked
10:27 <stenno> no
10:27 <stenno> you cannot leave the bubbles
10:27 <FIQ> Therer are no other changes to plane of water
10:27 <stenno> unless "oMB
10:27 <FIQ> This makes plane of water in 3.6.x awful
10:27 <stenno> indeed, its fucking awful
10:27 <greqrg> You'll want oilskin too
10:27 <stenno> yeah
10:28 <stenno> its just a really tedious wait and luck
10:28 <FIQ> stenno: I held off blocking off fly/levi in my own variant for years because I knew how bad it would make it despite it making no sense that it works, until I had a proper plan for it lol
10:28 <stenno> i mean how can you even decently speedrun with that
10:28 <greqrg> It seems like really bad design imo
10:28 <stenno> agreed
10:28 <greqrg> They should maybe make the bubbles bigger
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10:28 <stenno> 3.4.3 water was broken too of course, but 3.6 water is not the appropriate answer :P
10:29 <attie> I think nethack is of an age where "just make it tedious" was an acceptable way to make games harder
10:29 <greqrg> This change happened two years ago though attie
10:29 <greqrg> or ~2.5
10:29 <attie> yeah but I think it was just making water into what it was originally meant to be
10:29 <stenno> yeah but myst. force seems to follow that "design pattern" too :P
10:29 <attie> indeed
10:30 <stenno> and amnesia actually
10:30 <attie> at least amnesia is kinda clever
10:30 <Mandevil> "Why search for the Amulet?  Thou wouldst but lose it, cretin."
10:30 <stenno> i find amnesia really stupid
10:30 <Mandevil> My favourite utterance.
10:30 <stenno> up thy nose with a rubber hose
10:31 <attie> annoying but gives it a flavor
10:31 <Mandevil> Yes, but that one I mention fits me very well.
10:31 <Mandevil> With my habit of losing the Amulet.
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10:32 <greqrg> I don't like amnesia because it can be negated prematurely by tedious out-of-game effort 
10:32 <greqrg> Which in a way is forced on you if you want to play optimally
10:32 <greqrg> of course no one does that, since it's rather avoidable to begin with
10:33 <greqrg> (I say that, having been brain-sucked two games ago)
10:34 <stenno> fuuuuck i forgot my /oCancel at the votd
10:34 <stenno> oh thats a little bit of a problem i think
10:34 <stenno> ah well bad luck
10:34 <attie> drop the amulet, teleport there and back?
10:34 <stenno> hmm good idea
10:35 <attie> those scrolls of teleport will not serve any other use
10:36 <stenno> nice, thxz
10:36 <attie> now don't forget to pick the amulet back up! :P
10:37 * attie has done this in the past... >.>
10:39 <Mandevil> Uh what?
10:40 <Mandevil> How did I kill it second time?
10:40 <Mandevil> Conflict?
10:40 <greqrg> Probably
10:40 <greqrg> Do any variants make conflict not work against the Riders?
10:40 <greqrg> I think that would be an interesting tweak
10:41 <greqrg> as in, monsters influenced by conflict would not attack the Riders
10:41 <Mandevil> Just wanted to say that conflict doesn't affect the Riders :)
10:41 <greqrg> hehe yeah :P
10:42 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] rikersan (Twe Mum Mal Cha), 10447 points, T:7187, killed by a monster (aligned kop)
10:42 <riker> @le?aligned kop
10:42 <Beholder> No such monster.
10:42 <Pinkbeast> One could go a lot further in toning down conflict's ludicrous effectiveness
10:42 <riker> ththe heck was that, it did 50 dmg per turn with spells alone
10:42 <LarienTelrunya> basically a K with the stats of an aligned (temple) priest
10:42 <riker> ...
10:43 <LarienTelrunya> !lastgame rikersan
10:43 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rikersan/slex/dumplog/1526331756.slex.txt
10:43 <greqrg> Mandevil:  \o/
10:43 <Mandevil> That was one hell of a game.
10:43 <Mandevil> Thanks.
10:44 <stenno> grats Mandevil 
10:45 <K2> wooo congrats Mandevil
10:45 <Mandevil> And now tune into stenno's game :)
10:45 <Mandevil> K2: Thanks.
10:47 <stenno> i am doing a little break first
10:49 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
10:50 <stenno> ah yeah have to set the walk into trap paranoid option
10:51 <stenno> hmm can't be disabled with the paranoid_ options
10:51 <stenno> well i will just suffer through fire i guess
10:51 <stenno> here we go!
10:56 <stenno> hmm 
10:56 <stenno> well
10:56 <stenno> do i have poison resistance
10:56 <stenno> nope
10:56 <Mandevil> :)
10:56 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought
10:57 <Mandevil> Interesting way of establishing that.
10:57 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed]
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11:00 <rld> <@Winsalot> !tell LarienTelrunya you think it would be hard to edit slex's source to remove those to hit penalties by enchantment and slightly nerf item stealing?
11:00 <Beholder> Will do, @Winsalot!
11:00 <stenno> jesus fuck man
11:00 <rld> <@Winsalot> I would play it locally
11:00 <rld> <@Winsalot> I'm not asking to apply those changes to any server versions 😃
11:01 <stenno> aosdict: 
11:01 <Mandevil> BTW, I want !d inscription in NetHack.
11:01 <rld> <@Winsalot> cos those 2 "features" are worse than any nasty trap
11:01 <Mandevil> Or inscriptions in general.
11:01 <stenno> can i /oDeath pesty and famine
11:01 <stenno> missed twice in a row
11:01 <Mandevil> That happens.
11:01 <stenno> maybe they just have insane AC now?
11:01 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought
11:01 <stenno> well should i risk it again
11:02 <stenno> i will see if i get another round of conflict in
11:02 <stenno> missed thrice
11:03 <stenno> PESTY "oLS
11:03 <Mandevil> Lol!
11:03 <stenno> are you fucking kidding me
11:03 <attie> you are sooo unlucky
11:03 <Mandevil> stenno: Could have been "oR :-)
11:03 <stenno> yeah 5 times missed out of 5
11:03 <stenno> er 6
11:04 <Mandevil> That sux
11:04 <Mandevil> Use /oTele more
11:04 <Mandevil> If you got it.
11:04 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Juiblex, on T:65988
11:04 <stenno> thats what i'm doing now
11:04 <Mandevil> Good.
11:04 <Mandevil> Tele is the best "I am just passing by" weapon on Astral.
11:05 <stenno> wasn't me
11:05 <Mandevil> Well.
11:05 <Mandevil> Sounds like abug.
11:05 <AntiGulp> Maybe conflict?
11:05 <Beholder> AntiGulp: Message from aosdict at 2018-05-25 21:06 EDT: I'd welcome any more demon name (or nymph) suggestions.
11:05 <Beholder> AntiGulp: Message from K2 at 2018-05-25 23:18 EDT: like what you've added to the nethackwiki, very helpful. the new player roles and races are missing though ;)
11:05 <Beholder> AntiGulp: Message from hothraxxa at 2018-05-26 12:41 EDT: the wiki entry for mind flayer telepath shows it as purple d but of course it should be purple h
11:06 <stenno> and that was the sub-15k ascension btw
11:06 <stenno> @v?Pestilence
11:06 <Beholder> Pestilence (&) | Lvl: 30 | Diff: 34 | Spd: 12 | Res: fire cold sleep shock poison petrification | Confers: nothing | MR: 100 | Generates: unique | AC: -5 | Attacks: 8d8 touch Pestilence, 8d8 touch Pestilence | Alignment: 0 | Flags: flies, regenerates, seeinvis, nopoly, stalker, infravisible
11:06 <stenno> spd 12
11:06 <Mandevil> Only 12?
11:07 <Mandevil> I thought they're faster.
11:07 <AntiGulp> huh
11:07 <stenno> uuh pesty
11:07 <stenno> i might get mauled here
11:07 <stenno> so
11:07 <stenno> do i /oDeath him now
11:07 <Mandevil> Paralysis?
11:07 <stenno> i missed most of my shots
11:07 <stenno> don't have it handy
11:07 <Mandevil> I prefer to have paralysis for this kind of thing.
11:07 <Mandevil> Hm.
11:07 <Mandevil> Wow.
11:08 <Mandevil> Your luck returns.
11:08 <stenno> apparently angels have 230000 hp
11:08 <Mandevil> They are quite tough.
11:09 <Mandevil> It's better to just run around them.
11:09 <Mandevil> (not always possible).
11:09 <stenno> lol
11:09 <Mandevil> Hehe
11:09 <AntiGulp> lol nice
11:09 <Mandevil> That was funny
11:10 <Mandevil> Woohoo
11:10 <Mandevil> Sub 15K :-)
11:10 <stenno> wut
11:10 <stenno> oh wow, nice
11:10 <AntiGulp> Congrats!
11:10 <stenno> aosdict: that was really fun
11:10 <stenno> thanks :D
11:10 <Mandevil> Congratulations.
11:10 <attie> \o/
11:10 <Mandevil> I guess the fastest xnh asc now?
11:11 <Mandevil> Yes, by faaaar.
11:11 <stenno> idk you are the guy with the scoreboard lol
11:11 <stenno> my realtime is really shitty though
11:11 <Mandevil> The standing gametime record was 30835 turns.
11:12 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:66573
11:12 <AntiGulp> Wow, cutting it in half
11:12 <stenno> eh
11:12 <stenno> its still not exactly a speedrun i guess
11:12 <stenno> speedrun is like sub-10k :P
11:13 <Mandevil> stenno: How was xnethack different for you during this run?
11:13 <Mandevil> stenno: Something salient?
11:13 -!- riker has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
11:13 <stenno> on the top three of my list is 1) no myst. force 2) no myst. force and 3) no myst. force
11:13 <hothraxxa> congrats stenno. now try splicehack
11:13 <Mandevil> Lol.
11:13 <Mandevil> But that's hardly unique.
11:13 <stenno> well i really like 3.6.1
11:13 <hothraxxa> xnh gehennom is much more interesting
11:13 * Mandevil just found out that his realtime is 17hrs on that arc ascension.
11:14 <stenno> the xnethack gehennom levels are awesome!
11:14 <hothraxxa> there's even decent loot for the speedrunners
11:14 <stenno> xnethack gehennom is how a bigroom should look like
11:15 <hothraxxa> what about the id changes? i like them 
11:15 <stenno> yeah seems totally fair
11:15 <stenno> but i'd call that a minor change
11:15 <hothraxxa> i seem to be in a minority though
11:15 <stenno> what else..
11:15 <AntiGulp> What are the id changes?
11:15 <stenno> no poison instadeath
11:15 <stenno> its basically 3.6.1 but without the silly stuff that i hate
11:15 <hothraxxa> AntiGulp: no spellbook, scrolls alawys id 1/4/7 items depending ob buc
11:15 <stenno> (only amnesia is still in)
11:16 * hothraxxa wishes for a +10 blessed spellbook of typing
11:16 <AntiGulp> hothraxxa Ooh that sounds really nice
11:16 <AntiGulp> I really need to try xnh
11:17 <greqrg> 'grats stenno  :)
11:17 <stenno> ^_^ thanks
11:17 <hothraxxa> xnh imports some of fiq's qol changes, which is a really nice touch
11:17 <Mandevil> qol changes?
11:17 <Mandevil> Quality of Life?
11:17 <K2> congrats stenno
11:17 <hothraxxa> congrats on the challenge wizard, tone
11:17 <stenno> thx thx
11:17 <hothraxxa> Mandevil: yes
11:17 <K2> just... congrats for everybody
11:17 <stenno> oh right congrats greqrg 
11:18 <stenno> i fell asleep when you were on the plane of water
11:18 <greqrg> I almost did too :P
11:18 <hothraxxa> bohless, that's tedious
11:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] LoadedDice (Mon Ame Mal Cha), 962 points, T:1048, killed by a shotgun shell
11:18 <greqrg> Thanks guys
11:18 <stenno> apparently i won monster-scareless
11:18 <K2> AntiGulp you may want to see about some type of permanent connection to irc here, even if you're not glued to the screen 24/7
11:18 <stenno> but ?oSM doesn't seem to count? because i used it in the rodney zoo
11:18 <K2> when junethack starts more ppl will play splicehack and more bugs will be found
11:19 <hothraxxa> yeah, i expect a lot of splicehack bugs to turn up next month 
11:19 <Mandevil> Game dump dungeon overview _does_not_ contain user annotations.
11:19 <Mandevil> That's odd choice on the part of the Devteam.
11:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Mon Hum Fem Cha) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:18952
11:19 <AntiGulp> K2: Yeah, that's a really good point. What's a good client?
11:20 <Mandevil> irssi if you're on Linux.
11:20 <stenno> and ZNC as a bouncer
11:20 <Mandevil> Why bouncer?
11:20 <Mandevil> Just run irssi in screen/tmux.
11:20 <Pinkbeast> Mandevil: Presumably in the hypothetical case where you don't have access to an always-on system.
11:20 <stenno> oh i didn't know AntiGulp had a server
11:20 <hothraxxa> AntiGulp: is there anything special about telepath mind flayers?
11:21 <Mandevil> Pinkbeast: That's highly hypothetical :)
11:21 <K2> i have znc installed on hdf-us but right now i am the only one that uses it
11:21 <AntiGulp> hothraxxa: Basically whatever the wiki says about them. They shoot psychic rays and can tentacle you.
11:21 <AntiGulp> (does not have a server)
11:22 <hothraxxa> i ask because i went downstairs, checked the level (gehennom) and saw no h. about 5-10 turns later there's one next to me sucking my brains 
11:22 <hothraxxa> no warning
11:23 <hothraxxa> just bad lick i assume
11:23 <hothraxxa> er
11:23 <hothraxxa> where's my spellbook?
11:23 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *poof*]
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11:23 <hothraxxa> anyway it also confused me so my first wand shot went who knows where
11:24 <hothraxxa> i didn't think mind flayers had a confuse attack
11:24 <AntiGulp> I'm considering nerfing psychic confusion, or making it last for only a turn. Probably really unlucky suck attack, since they only get one tentacle iirc.
11:25 <hothraxxa> ah it's the pyschic part
11:25 <hothraxxa> oh it got worse. they get multiple tentacles
11:25 <hothraxxa> lss: i'm dead
11:26 <AntiGulp> noooooo
11:26 <hothraxxa> yes. looking at the dumplog, i think i misinterpreted how many tentacle attacks it was getting
11:27 <hothraxxa> anyway it was yasd
11:27 <hothraxxa> first, i could have geno'ed h but was holding off until i sighted a dangerous one
11:28 <hothraxxa> second, if i had noticed i was confused i might have managed to get in a wand hit
11:28 <AntiGulp> :(
11:28 <hothraxxa> i wasn't looking forward to demogorgon's surprise anyway
11:29 <hothraxxa> i had a cunning plan
11:29 <stenno> aw dumplog only has wallclock time, not realtime
11:30 * stenno checks scoreboard instead
11:30 <stenno> ah yeah 5:05 realtime
11:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed the invisible Baalzebub, on T:67839
11:30 <stenno> so thats average 
11:30 <stenno> at some point i said to myself that i will just run it smoothly and not care about realtime
11:31 <stenno> anyway, imma grab some food
11:31 <stenno> bbl
11:32 <hothraxxa> i want to start another splh but i'm too slow to finish by junethack
11:33 <AntiGulp> Hmmmm I am realizing that I do not understand irc almost at all. ZNC is for bouncing and hiding one's IP, correct? So doing that would require another server.
11:33 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Mon Hum Mal Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:67977
11:33 <stenno> yes but there are znc providers
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11:33 <K2> i can set up an account for you on my znc server if you want AntiGulp, but unless you plan on connecting from multiple locales, its not needed really
11:34 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Mon Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:68039
11:34 <stenno> K2: this was about him just being in this channel 24/7
11:34 <stenno> making that possible
11:34 <stenno> anyway
11:34 <K2> yes but if he's only going to connect from one place (i.e. home) you can just fire up an irc client and keep it on 24/7
11:35 <stenno> well i thought a feature of a bouncer would be that it relayed messages to you
11:35 <AntiGulp> Gotcha gotcha
11:35 <K2> stenno sure
11:36 <stenno> imma go get some thai food now, i hope the place is open
11:36 <hothraxxa> that's sort of the bounce part
11:36 <K2> but i never saw a need for znc until i knew i'd need to be here from different places (home/work/etc)
11:37 <K2> AND not miss a message no matter where i conencted from
11:38 <bhaak> hothraxxa: you can always die before junethack starts :)
11:38 <Mandevil> K2: But that's what I use irssi running in screen...
11:38 <Mandevil> (for)
11:38 <hothraxxa> so do i
11:38 <hothraxxa> i have two of them running right now
11:38 <K2> irssi can act as a bouncer?
11:39 <hothraxxa> no, he's talking about solving the problem not the method of solution
11:39 <K2> ah
11:39 <Mandevil> K2: I just run my irssi permanently on a server.
11:40 <K2> i see
11:40 <Mandevil> K2: To which I connect from anywhere.
11:40 <hothraxxa> in screen
11:40 <Mandevil> znc is bit more universal.
11:40 <hothraxxa> it's the anti-bouncer
11:40 <Mandevil> Since you can use any client with it.
11:41 <hothraxxa> a lot of my irc friends use it, but i'd say about twice as many do it the way mandevil and i do it
11:41 <hothraxxa> we all go back a long way when shells were more common 
11:42 <hothraxxa> i have access to three shell servers and i have contemplated setting up my own, but i don't see a need
11:43 -!- AntiGulp_ has joined #hardfought
11:44 <AntiGulp> Sigh that almost worked
11:44 -!- AntiGulp_ has left #hardfought
11:44 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] LoadedDice (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 2034 points, T:1545, killed by an elf zombie, while fainted from lack of food
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11:45 <Mandevil> My shell server is under my desk :)
11:46 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *poof*]
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11:49 <AntiGulp> Well I now have a client sort of working on my computer. Score.
11:51 -!- K2 has quit [Client Quit]
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11:53 <K2> all this talk of znc reminded me I needed to update the ssl cert for it
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11:54 <[Demo]> I'm just permanently confused
11:55 <hothraxxa> that's a conduct, right?
11:55 <hothraxxa> ascend as a giant bat
11:55 <[Demo]> maybe?
11:55 <[Demo]> those r stunned
11:55 <hothraxxa> dammit i was typing that 
11:57 * hothraxxa wishes for blessed historic +5 gauntlets of speed typing
11:57 <hothraxxa> yes, it took me that long to type that
11:57 * K2 wished for blessed fixed +5 partially eaten gloves of spell checking
11:57 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
11:57 <hothraxxa> shit i forgot fixed
11:58 <K2> :P
11:58 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
11:58 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Announcy] by K2
11:58 <K2> Announcy hi
11:58 <Announcy> I'm announcing Junethack events. Ask bhaak or #junethack for more info.
11:59 <hothraxxa> here we go
11:59 <[Demo]> yey
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12:04 <K2> hey looks like someone got themselves an irc client ;)
12:05 <stenno> hm what now
12:06 <AntiGulp> I think so! I’m using Colloquy for now, which has pretty awful UI, so I’ll probably migrate over to iirsi at some point.
12:06 <[Demo]> yo antigulp I wanted to ask u some shit but I forgot it
12:06 <AntiGulp> [Demo] Glad to help lol
12:06 <stenno> AntiGulp: when you consider irssi, i would probably rather recommend weechat
12:06 <stenno> AntiGulp: its like irssi but a bit more modern
12:07 <hothraxxa> is it easier to configure? 
12:07 <[Demo]> irssi works well with hterm and navigation keys though
12:07 <hothraxxa> because irssi is a pita
12:08 <stenno> yeah weechat comes with quite some stuff out of the box
12:08 <[Demo]> I've never had any issues using irssi
12:08 <hothraxxa> ok thanks for the tip. i will look into it
12:09 <[Demo]> it's done everything I've ever wanted of it
12:09 <hothraxxa> i love my irssi just the same
12:09 <stenno> i used irssi for the last 10 years or so
12:09 <stenno> and switched to weechat a few weeks ago :)
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12:09 <K2> i need to switch
12:09 <hothraxxa> it does everything well. it is just so painful to set up or modify
12:09 <[Demo]> abusive to muscle memory
12:09 <K2> been using mIRC forever
12:09 <[Demo]> muscle memory is most important
12:09 <K2> holy shit... finally got sshfs to work
12:09 <hothraxxa> stenno: that's an interesting input
12:10 <[Demo]> what was the issue?
12:10 <K2> in /etc/ssh/sshd_config
12:10 <K2> # Subsystem sftp /usr/lib/openssh/sftp-server
12:10 <K2> Subsystem sftp internal-sftp
12:10 <K2> it was the other way around
12:10 <[Demo]> ah
12:10 <K2> enabled internal, boom
12:10 <stenno> pizza time
12:10 <stenno> thai restaurant was closed
12:11 <stenno> the restaurant is like randomly open every now and then
12:11 <stenno> the propagated opening hours do not match the reality
12:11 <stenno> and the cook who is an elderly thai woman doesn't really give a fuck lol
12:12 <hothraxxa> hah, there's an indian place a minute's walk from here that behaves exactly like that
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12:13 <hothraxxa> the head chef/owner is male, but erratic as hell
12:14 <K2> mmm thai
12:14 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: AntiGulp]
12:14 <K2> this makes me hungry
12:14 <K2> food time
12:14 <hothraxxa> he's open tuesdays from 5 to 7
12:14 <hothraxxa> maybe
12:14 <hothraxxa> all day thursday from 11 
12:14 <hothraxxa> sometimes
12:15 <Mandevil> K2: sshfs is neat.
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12:19 <hothraxxa> mandevil: aside from hacking the url, how does one go directly to a player's scoreboard?
12:19 <stenno> thats easy
12:19 <stenno> you just ascend
12:19 <Mandevil> Well, poorly.
12:19 <stenno> and then your name is in the uppermost list
12:19 <hothraxxa> hah. that's how i've been doing it, mostly
12:19 <Mandevil> For players with at least one ascension, they are listed in the z-score table.
12:19 <stenno> an alternative would be having a great z-score, so you can pick your name from the list
12:19 <hothraxxa> yes
12:19 <stenno> lol
12:20 <Mandevil> stenno: No need for "great". All players are listed.
12:20 <Mandevil> stenno: But I am starting to think about a rewrite :)
12:20 <hothraxxa> the z-score is how i get to me in a hurry
12:20 <Mandevil> hothraxxa: Otherwise, just bookmark it :)
12:20 <Mandevil> Also, why not have bot command...
12:20 <Mandevil> !playerscore Mandevil
12:20 <Mandevil> Or something.
12:20 <hothraxxa> well bookmarks don't help when i'm trying to look up player foo
12:21 <hothraxxa> i was hoping that there would be a search function that i was missing
12:21 <Mandevil> hothraxxa: Sorry about that.
12:21 <Mandevil> hothraxxa: That's a longer overdue feature.
12:21 <stenno> Mandevil: indeed it is :D
12:22 <stenno> i've been FRing it since NHS's inception
12:22 <hothraxxa> no! don't a pologize. you should be praised for everything you have done
12:22 <Mandevil> I need to choose some framework for that.
12:22 <Mandevil> Currently it's just templates.
12:23 <Mandevil> stenno: This rewrite will sure be delayed by working on the November Tournament (tm)
12:23 <stenno> well to be fair, setting something like this up with a modern framework takes like a day or so
12:23 <stenno> are you a python guy?
12:23 <Mandevil> Yes.
12:24 <Mandevil> But I don't have that in place at the moment.
12:24 <Mandevil> And it's backend+frontend.
12:24 <stenno> yaeh fair enough
12:24 <Mandevil> I am a perl guy :)
12:24 <stenno> ...oh
12:24 <stenno> well..
12:24 <Mandevil> Of course, for front end you need some JS framework.
12:24 <stenno> for what
12:24 <stenno> do you?
12:25 <Mandevil> For what?
12:25 <stenno> hmm maybe for stuff like autocomplete or other advanced features
12:25 <Mandevil> For the front end!
12:25 <stenno> well for what functionality
12:25 <Mandevil> There's lot of functionality that needs frontend code.
12:25 <Mandevil> I really want to learn vue, but...
12:25 * stenno hands Mandevil a react instead
12:26 <Mandevil> Nah.
12:26 <Mandevil> React is too heavy and it's from Facebook.
12:26 <Mandevil> Vue is react lite.
12:26 <Mandevil> And it really is gaining lot of traction.
12:27 <Mandevil> The thing is I really don't like JavaScript.
12:27 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] knavery (Rog Orc Mal Cha) had Grimtooth bestowed upon him by Kos, on T:13483
12:29 <stenno> but javascript is really cool
12:29 <Mandevil> JavaScript is not great, but it would be OK.
12:29 <Mandevil> But what I don't get is ESx, transpiling etc.
12:29 <Mandevil> Why do we need to transpile is beyond me.
12:30 <stenno> because browsers
12:30 <Mandevil> Basically, browsers make JavaScript great and also totally lame.
12:30 <stenno> browsers are the worst thing abotu javascript
12:31 <Mandevil> Also I find good texts about JavaScript very rare.
12:31 <stenno> if everyone would use the same browser (i.e. runtime), things would be much nicer regarding js in the browser
12:31 <stenno> but because different browsers implement different parts of the spec, we need to transpile
12:32 <Mandevil> That was a rhethorical question.
12:32 <stenno> derp gotcha
12:33 <Mandevil> If you don't have a mentor, learning to do front-end work is pretty daunting.
12:33 <Mandevil> IMO.
12:33 <Mandevil> There's lot of things that everyone thinks are a given.
12:33 <Mandevil> But when you come from the outside, you don't know them.
12:33 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Orcus, on T:70365
12:33 <stenno> hmm i wonder what would be a good way to start
12:33 <Mandevil> Like "why do I need node.js when I am not using node.js in backend"?
12:34 <Mandevil> That took me quite some time to figure out.
12:35 <[Demo]> if you were a forced illiterate caveman would you be ok with wielding a spear to get mr or reflection?
12:35 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] Lymia (Mah Wis Fem Cha), 57869 points, T:6448, killed by a cowardly attack on her breasts
12:35 <Mandevil> slex has breast cancer?
12:36 <[Demo]> is, not has
12:36 <Mandevil> Welp
12:39 <aosdict> stenno: You were just incredibly unlucky with /oDing the riders.
12:40 <PavelB> Wand of ding?
12:40 <Mandevil> 6 times in a row is quite some bad luck.
12:40 <stenno> well i made it in the end
12:40 <Mandevil> /oDeath
12:40 <stenno> well one of them hit
12:40 <stenno> but that got "oLS'd lol
12:40 <PavelB> Ah
12:40 <stenno> that was hilarious in retrospect
12:41 <Mandevil> I once had Pest or Famine with "oR.
12:41 <Mandevil> And I was a wizard.
12:41 <stenno> brutal lol
12:41 <Mandevil> So basically I had no attacks that would work.
12:41 <stenno> that is grunthack level of brutal
12:41 <PavelB> It always takes me a solid 10 seconds to process these abbreviations
12:41 <[Demo]> force bolt?
12:41 <stenno> PavelB: it will get faster
12:42 <stenno> once you see those more often
12:43 <aosdict> Mandevil: Psi bolt would be nice to have in player hands.
12:43 <Mandevil> Some variants have that, right?
12:44 <aosdict> Most of the ones that have monsters-cast-player-spells. I know grunthack does, FIQ might.
12:44 <[Demo]> i think fh removes psi bolt?
12:44 <Mandevil> Monster/player symmetry FTW.
12:44 <aosdict> (are there any other monsters-cast-player-spells variants? xnh in the future doesn't count.)
12:47 <AntiGulp> I’m planning on adding more symmetry as I go, especially with monster spells
12:47 <[Demo]> the problem with symmetry is when you add new things you have to add them a bunch of places and it takes too much time
12:48 <Mandevil> [Demo]: If your architecture is bad, then yes :)
12:48 <[Demo]> im not the one who made nethack
12:49 <[Demo]> if fh ever releases something with xhity...
12:49 <[Demo]> id be happy
12:49 <AntiGulp> NetHack’s existing architecture is… something
12:54 <hothraxxa> re riders with "ols: i had a fiqhack game where death had one of those
12:54 <stenno> the irony
12:54 <aosdict> Monsters casting player spells should _primarily_ be changes to mcastu.c.
12:55 <stenno> to be fair, undead/demons should be able to use "oLS
12:55 <aosdict> Some peripheral stuff like deciding what spells monsters get, sure.
12:55 <stenno> shouldn't*
12:55 <Mandevil> Why not? It's fun!
12:56 <Mandevil> Imagine Demogorgon with "oLS.
12:56 <stenno> doesn't make much sense
12:56 <hothraxxa> try fiqhack rodney
12:56 <aosdict> AntiGulp: I realized that my design philosophy is quite similar to GruntHack's, except without all the evil.
12:56 <hothraxxa> who invariably casts double trouble immediately
12:56 <Mandevil> GruntHack is fair.
12:57 <hothraxxa> no it isn't
12:57 * stenno tries astral call
12:57 * stenno gets killed 5 times
12:57 <stenno> or how often was it
13:01 <stenno> aosdict: well then, time for material traits/object properties in xnethack!
13:01 <hothraxxa> dragonhide boots of speed and relection
13:01 <hothraxxa> er
13:01 <hothraxxa> +f
13:02 <stenno> dragonhide water walking boots of speed and reflection :P
13:02 <aosdict> grunthack is also less balanced than I prefer, as is obvious from the above examples
13:02 <hothraxxa> i had some of those. they're great
13:02 <FIQ> aosdict: monster cast player spells should primarily be removal of mcastu.c
13:02 <stenno> dragonhide cloak of magic resistance and reflection
13:02 <stenno> bloodthirsty silver longsword something something
13:03 <FIQ> silver Excalibur of reflection
13:03 <aosdict> FIQ: Yes, but that really only works if all monsters have the full player set of properties.
13:03 <aosdict> In 3.x, without that massive refactor, you would have to have two sets of code.
13:03 <FIQ> aosdict: monsters casting player spells was like the first feature I did in fiqhack after wand rebalance
13:03 <stenno> can we get something like xhity please
13:03 <FIQ> maybe property rework came beforehand
13:03 <stenno> xhity.c
13:04 <FIQ> stenno: combat.c
13:04 <stenno> then you can do all the symmetrical stuff
13:04 <stenno> is that fiqhack?
13:04 <FIQ> stenno: I've already made some changes so that I can do mhitu/mhitm stuff in a single place
13:04 <stenno> nice!
13:04 <FIQ> but a bunch of it is still seperate
13:04 <stenno> i've been (lazily) waiting for this since forever lol
13:04 <stenno> right, fair
13:05 <stenno> its a lot of complex code
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13:10 <[Demo]> one day fiqhack will be the new 3.4.3 if fiq can actually get full symmetry
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13:11 <aosdict> stenno: xnh also has some sorts of material traits. Not sure what you meant by that.
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13:11 <aosdict> things like, glass bladed weapons have an inherent +3 to damage.
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13:12 <stenno> aosdict: but can you wish for a glass-bladed long sword?
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13:12 <[Demo]> just dont turn it into grunthack
13:12 <[Demo]> where wishes are too strong
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13:13 <LarienTelrunya> .
13:13 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: Message from @Winsalot at 2018-05-27 11:00 EDT: you think it would be hard to edit slex's source to remove those to hit penalties by enchantment and slightly nerf item stealing?
13:13 <stenno> [Demo]: well but grunthack isn't easy
13:13 <stenno> you get OP stuff, but you also have to fight OP monsters
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13:14 <LarienTelrunya> @Winsalot: depends on who is tasked with it... I could make those changes in my sleep if I wanted :D item-stealing monsters are overnerfed in the current slex btw, the next version buffs them again
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13:15 <[Demo]> you dont get OP stuff
13:15 <[Demo]> you have to wish for it
13:15 <[Demo]> thats the only way
13:15 <[Demo]> wishes are too strong
13:16 <stenno> oh thats what you meant
13:16 <stenno> fair enough
13:16 <[Demo]> yeha
13:16 <stenno> there is no crafting system oslt
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13:16 <[Demo]> or bosses you could fight for good stuff
13:16 <[Demo]> grunt is an example of really shitty balance and design
13:17 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought
13:17 <[Demo]> cause its unfinished
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13:17 <LarienTelrunya> grunt also has zombies that make you deathly sick, and then you try to polymorph and become a yellow mold that would have ended the sickness but it crashes with SIGFPE because you have 0 max HP :P
13:18 <stenno> i can agree with that assessment
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13:18 <stenno> oh right i forgot the grunt zombies lol
13:18 <stenno> You hear a shuffling noise.
13:18 <[Demo]> aaaaaahhh
13:18 <stenno> yeah man
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13:18 <LarienTelrunya> also, monsters zap you with cancellation and polymorph in grunt :P
13:18 <stenno> oh yeah
13:18 <stenno> the flashbacks
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13:19 <LarienTelrunya> and some monsters choke you to death, although I never survived long enough in grunt to actually encounter those
13:19 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought
13:19 <stenno> hmm i think that was my furthest game
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13:19 <[Demo]> i think grunt might have more issues than slex
13:19 <stenno> that i got engulfed by a gelcube, paralyzed, then died by asphyxiation
13:20 <stenno> turns out engulf strange paralyze is a pretty good combo
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13:20 <[Demo]> not to say interface screws arent a huge issue
13:20 <stenno> strangle*
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13:20 <Mandevil> stenno: You only get paralyzed if you attack.
13:20 <stenno> well
13:20 <Mandevil> stenno: But it's a mistake everyone makes... once.
13:20 <LarienTelrunya> it also used to be that Jubilex and several other monsters had segfault venoms in grunt :P
13:20 <[Demo]> what do agates do, magic wise?
13:20 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought
13:20 <stenno> i think that was my last grunthack game
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13:21 <Mandevil> I'm pretty happy that Grunt was revived.
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13:22 <stenno> 49 esm gh 0.2.1 Val-Hum-Fem-Law 72,204 10727 1:37:25 24/25 54/115 2017-06-02 19:17 suffocated by a gelatinous cube, while paralyzed
13:22 <Mandevil> stenno: Back in... 2015 or so... I died in Grunt to Demogorgon.
13:22 <Mandevil> stenno: That was because I got someone's bones.
13:22 <stenno> oh that was only one year ago, last junethack o_O
13:22 <stenno> ow
13:22 <Mandevil> stenno: Then K2 got _my_ bones two years later!
13:22 <Mandevil> stenno: And he survived.
13:22 <stenno> woop
13:22 <stenno> yeah k2 is the gh god
13:23 <Mandevil> He won number of games on the original, bugged version.
13:23 <stenno> man i miss stth
13:24 <stenno> if he knew how good 3.6.1 is he probably would come back
13:24 <Mandevil> Where has he gone?
13:24 <stenno> i don't know
13:24 <stenno> i think he vanished after 3.6 got released because it sucked so much
13:24 <stenno> last seen 556 days ago
13:25 <stenno> what day was that?
13:25 <[Demo]> monday
13:25 <[Demo]> idk
13:25 <Mandevil> Last ascension: 2015-12-26 11:33
13:26 <Mandevil> That's also his last recorded game.
13:26 <Mandevil> https://scoreboard.xd.cm/players/s/stth.all.html
13:26 <stenno> 17th november 2016
13:26 <stenno> is last seen on NAO
13:27 <stenno> hm the last ascension is pretty much the 3.6.0 release, right?
13:27 <[Demo]> i need to test every way to stop wielding a weapon
13:27 <[Demo]> is there a list anywhere of every way to stop wielding a weapon?
13:27 <Mandevil> stenno: I think the release happened early in Decemeber?
13:27 <stenno> yeah
13:28 <stenno> 15.12 maybe?
13:28 <stenno> sry, 12-15
13:28 <Mandevil> December 7th
13:28 <[Demo]> pearl harbor
13:28 <Mandevil> 2015
13:28 <stenno> ah k
13:28 <Mandevil> So he continued to play 3.4.3 for a year.
13:28 <stenno> so 19 days after 3.6.0 release he had his last game
13:28 <Mandevil> No.
13:29 <Mandevil> Wait, sorry.
13:29 <stenno> you just said his last ascension was 2015-12-26
13:29 <Mandevil> Yeah, for some reason I remembered 2016 instead.
13:34 <rld> <@Winsalot> Gh's segfault venom is intended?
13:34 <[Demo]> no
13:34 <[Demo]> nobody intends to segfault
13:34 <[Demo]> not even amy
13:35 <Mandevil> [Demo]: Except that there's the segfaulter role/race?
13:35 <[Demo]> fake
13:35 <rld> <@Winsalot> Doesnt slex have race with intended segfaults?
13:35 <[Demo]> missingno has an option set by default to try to avoid segfaulting
13:36 <rld> <@Winsalot> Grunthack sounds pretty fun by how you guys described it :)
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13:37 <[Demo]> heh
13:37 <LarienTelrunya> segfaulter race used to generate segfaults on purpose but we can't have such security loopholes in a game hosted on a public server, so I changed it to a fake "segfault" that is really just a DYWYPI
13:37 <stenno> fun with a capital F
13:37 <stenno> Fun
13:37 <rld> <@Winsalot> I just wonder how different it is from fiqhack at this point?
13:38 <FIQ> how different what is?
13:38 <rld> <@Winsalot> As fh is getting more and more evil as the time goes on
13:38 <FIQ> I am not trying to make fh evil
13:38 <FIQ> What makes you believe that
13:38 <rld> <@Winsalot> Grunthack
13:38 <rld> <@Winsalot> New water elementals?
13:38 <rld> <@Winsalot> New hp formula?
13:38 <rld> <@Winsalot> Monsters cancelling me?
13:39 <FIQ> New HP formula was meant to be in the player's favour
13:39 <rld> <@Winsalot> Lots of evil stuff tbh :)
13:39 <rld> <@Winsalot> New hp made riders crazy tanky I think
13:39 <rld> <@Winsalot> But qt least they run away wen low on hp :)
13:45 <rld> <@Winsalot> But overall fh is great. Just needs little bit more crazy stuff. For more Fun ofc.
13:50 <Pinkbeast> FIQ: We could use a bit of Spork-style evil ;-)
13:52 <K2> heh
13:52 <K2> spoekhack evilness mmm
13:52 <K2> sporkhack even
13:52 <Pinkbeast> Ha ha only serious 
13:53 <FIQ> spork
13:53 * FIQ shudders
13:53 <FIQ> spork is a cruel place where most NetHack evil come from
13:53 <stenno> ^
13:53 <FIQ> it invented orctown
13:53 <stenno> nazgul
13:54 <K2> nazgul's in sporkhack are on my genocide list
13:54 <stenno> spork-style evil is a "good" kind of evil though
13:54 <K2> ^ that
13:54 <FIQ> @Winsalot monsters cancelling players was one of the first fh features
13:55 <FIQ> as well as slowing
13:55 <K2> grunthack evil is like compressed evil in a can that you can shake and open and it strays all over the place
13:55 <K2> *sprays
13:55 <K2> and version 0.2.3 is slightly more evil
13:56 <K2> juuuuust a touch more
13:56 * FIQ sprays evilness all over K2
13:56 <K2> eww
13:56 <introsp3ctive> Hot...
13:56 <K2> yeah dont talk like that you'll get hothraxxa all riled up
13:56 <FIQ> as if it made any difference
13:56 <FIQ> K2 loves grunthack after all
13:56 <Pinkbeast> Hot, hot, hot! Aaaaaaargh!
13:56 <K2> heheh
13:56 <FIQ> introsp3ctive: did you join the ootc channel
13:56 <K2> i want to add another level of evilness after junethack
13:57 <Pinkbeast> FR: orbs of fire # sorry again
13:57 <introsp3ctive> FIQ: I did not. What's I can't get PMs on this app. What's the channel?
13:57 <FIQ> ##OrderOfTheCockatrice-nethack 
13:57 <introsp3ctive> Thank you
13:59 <FIQ> you need to /msg chanserv invite ##OrderOfTheCockatrice-nethack 
13:59 <FIQ> since it's invite-only
14:03 <K2> !who
14:03 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-us] Luxidream [dyn] knavery [nh361] 
14:03 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-eu] No current players
14:03 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-au] No current players
14:04 <stenno> more like order of the noobs amirite /trash-talk
14:06 <introsp3ctive> Lol
14:07 <stenno> it is already clear that you will get roflstomped by clan Improved Tin Openers
14:08 <Mandevil> What, TeamSplat was renamed?
14:08 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
14:09 <[Demo]> i still want a 14 character word limit
14:09 <[Demo]> with a hard cut off that it doesnt warn you about
14:09 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:09 <[Demo]> orderofthecock
14:09 <K2> !who
14:09 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-us] Luxidream [dyn] knavery [nh361] 
14:09 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-eu] AmyBSOD [slex] k2 [nh361] 
14:09 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-au] No current players
14:10 <K2> !whereis k2
14:10 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-us] k2 is not currently playing on this server.
14:10 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-eu] k2 [nh361]: (Val Hum Fem Law) T:4 The Dungeons of Doom level: 1
14:10 <stenno> Improved ???? Tin ???? Openers
14:10 <introsp3ctive> Demo: that's not very nice lol
14:10 <LarienTelrunya> introsp3ctive: Demo will play for the best clan ever, do you want to join? only 6 hours until the registration opens! :)
14:11 <kritixilithos> stenno: aka goats
14:11 <kritixilithos> actually more like improve tin eaters
14:11 <kritixilithos> *improved
14:12 <stenno> how dare u :vvv
14:12 <[Demo]> haha tin eaters
14:12 <stenno> what insolence is that
14:12 * stenno shakes fist at his monitor
14:12 <stenno> just you wait
14:12 <stenno> we have the most popular nethack streamer in our ranks
14:12 <stenno> with the support of the masses, victory will be ours
14:13 <kritixilithos> squishy human hands vs goat hooves
14:15 <introsp3ctive> Amy: but I'm in a clan. It doesn't mean I love you any less, though <3
14:15 <LarienTelrunya> aww
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14:25 <stenno> btw i hold the current SPEEDRUN WORLD RECORD in xNetHack
14:25 <stenno> so like
14:25 <stenno> you will go down fast
14:25 * stenno makes stance movement
14:29 <Mandevil> I hold 3.6.1 DUMBEST ASCENSION WORLD RECORD!
14:29 <Mandevil> There's no contest.
14:30 <stenno> as its apparent now, only team splat might be on the same level as we
14:32 <Mandevil> Why was the glyph for vibrating square changed to ~?
14:32 <Mandevil> That is confusing when you're using crystal balls.
14:32 <Mandevil> Since you still have to use ^
14:32 <stenno> no pun intended
14:32 <stenno> yeah i wonder too
14:32 <stenno> also it distracts from the fact that vibsquare is still classified as trap so you cannot teleport on it
14:33 <stenno> YASI: #untrapping the VS
14:33 <Mandevil> Make it a trap that you're allowed to port onto.
14:34 <stenno> acehack and the like have made it a dungeon feature
14:35 <Mandevil> And can you crystal ball dungeon features?
14:36 <stenno> not sure
14:36 <stenno> but you can magic map them :P
14:36 <Mandevil> Lol.
14:36 <stenno> but yeah
14:36 <stenno> you can crystal ball fountains 
14:36 <Mandevil> Anyway, in my last game I got randomly teleported (not sure why, I had tc) and landed right next to the square.
14:37 <Mandevil> So it was. "Sorry. You find a vibrating square"
14:37 <Mandevil> No idea why it is "a" vibrating square.
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14:39 <stenno> that would make the lol
14:39 <stenno> -that would make the
14:40 <[Demo]> who has the first ascension on the new nao servers?
14:40 <aosdict> stenno: [backscroll] You can't wish for object materials, no, I thought it would be unbalanced (silver would be much more popular than glass for obvious reasons)
14:40 <stenno> aosdict: yeah it has huge balance implications
14:40 <Mandevil> [Demo]: What is "new NAO servers"?
14:40 <[Demo]> when it moved to aws
14:40 <Mandevil> Ah.
14:41 <aosdict> If you happen to find the weapon of your preference in the material of your preference, well then that's just your lucky day
14:41 <aosdict> I think I should tone down the amount of monsters that get daggers though
14:41 <[Demo]> fh object properties annoy me
14:41 <[Demo]> because maximum power requires you get lucky and they drop
14:42 <[Demo]> or you keep playing and farming til they drop
14:44 <Mandevil> So my least ascended roles are Bar Cav Hea Mon Ran.
14:45 <Mandevil> !rng bar cav hea mon ran
14:45 <Beholder> Mandevil: cav
14:46 <K2> !who
14:46 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-us] Luxidream [dyn] bouquet [xnh] 
14:46 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-eu] AmyBSOD [slex] k2 [nh361] 
14:46 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-au] No current players
14:47 <K2> hmm
14:47 <K2> so close...
14:47 <[Demo]> im gonna ascend xnh
14:49 <Mandevil> Hm, levelporting into Moloch's Sanctum was nerfed.
14:49 <Mandevil> Didn't know that.
14:49 <stenno> ammy delivery isn't possible either 
14:50 <Mandevil> That much I know.
14:50 <Mandevil> I loved to use Asmodeus.
14:50 <Mandevil> Sigh.
14:50 <Mandevil> Now it's the old fashioned traverse.
14:51 <Mandevil> Not really sure how that improves the game.
14:52 <stenno> i kinda like it tbh
14:53 <stenno> the actual inner sanctum with the fire trap ring is a bit annoying if you don't have SDD
14:53 <stenno> but eeh
14:55 <Mandevil> Usually you get at least one :)
14:55 <Mandevil> But I have waded the fire ring more than once before.
14:56 <stenno> its not that much of a problem, its just abit annoying
14:56 <Mandevil> Strangely, in my last game, the Sanctum was remarkably unthreatening.
14:56 <Mandevil> (apart from Demogorgon, that is)
14:57 <stenno> in my game, nothing was really threatening
14:57 <Mandevil> BTW, I thought master liches only very rarely gate demons.
14:57 -!- introsp3ctive has joined #hardfought
14:57 <Mandevil> But I had them gate three.. four actually.
14:57 <stenno> because i had most of my ascension kit before the castle
14:57 <stenno> oh yeah your situation sounded evil
14:57 <Mandevil> But Geryon doesn't really count.
14:57 <Mandevil> Speed 3.
14:58 <K2> Mandevil how well versed are you regarding php?
14:59 -!- introsp3ctive1 has joined #hardfought
14:59 <Mandevil> K2: Not. At. All.
14:59 <K2> ok
14:59 <Mandevil> I haven't written single line of PHP in my life.
14:59 -!- introsp3ctive-m has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
15:01 <Pinkbeast> Mandevil: Do you know Perl? It's like Perl would be if Larry Wall had suffered a serious head injury.
15:01 <K2> so I setup an sshfs mount to hdf-eu from hdf-us
15:01 <Mandevil> Pinkbeast: I know perl, yes.
15:01 <greqrg> Mandevil: Yeah I've read that it's only a 1/200 chance for summon nasties to bring in a demon prince
15:01 <K2> i want this particular php script to read the contents of various inprogress folders for variants hosted on hdf-eu
15:01 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
15:02 <Pinkbeast> Mandevil: Well, I ain't kidding. You'll find you can sort of read PHP.
15:02 <Mandevil> greqrg: Yeah, that's the idea I had about that.
15:02 <K2> https://www.hardfought.org/nh/index.php
15:02 <Mandevil> Pinkbeast: I know it's inspired by perl.
15:02 <K2> that works if php is looking at local directories
15:02 <Mandevil> K2: I think using over-the-internet filesystem for this kind of thing is not a good idea.
15:02 <K2> but since i have an sshfs mount working, the OS should see anything in it as local (that's the assumption)
15:03 <K2> and i added a line in the php script to look at the inprogress folders in that mount (hdf-eu server)
15:03 <K2> but it still only reports back players on hdf-us
15:03 <Mandevil> K2: Not sure how FUSE works, but you're opening yourself to some very nasty system hangs.
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15:03 <PavelB> PHP is only like Perl in the sense that they both have `$sigil`s.
15:04 <Mandevil> K2: Use rsync or something instead.
15:04 <K2> hmm
15:04 <rld> <@Winsalot> Anyone have nice grunthack curses config file?
15:04 <K2> it wouldnt be real time but i guess thats ok
15:04 <Mandevil> K2: You can sure try it.
15:04 <Mandevil> K2: But when the internet gets flaky, there will be problems.
15:05 <K2> @Winsalot if you have a curses cfg for one variant, it will work on all variants
15:05 <Mandevil> K2: You get syscalls hung on some TCP/IP's connection and that can't be good.
15:05 <K2> Mandevil you're right
15:05 <rld> <@Winsalot> even if that one variant is slex?
15:05 <K2> @Winsalot yes
15:05 <Pinkbeast> PavelB: This is not even remotely true.
15:05 <K2> ok plan B
15:05 <LarienTelrunya> Winsalot: copy and paste it, and then just edit out the stuff it complains about ;)
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15:06 <Mandevil> K2: Ask Tangles for an opinion.
15:06 <Mandevil> K2: He's probably better versed in this systems stuff.
15:06 <PavelB> Ok they're both interpreted dynamically typed languages, but I'd say PhP isn't really closer to Perl than, say, Python or Lua.
15:06 <stenno> php is not a good programming language
15:06 <PavelB> It is now.
15:07 <K2> Mandevil: true, I agree. but I am trying not to bug him if possible, I do enough as it is
15:07 <K2> plus I am learning
15:07 <Pinkbeast> PavelB: Well, it ain't so. For my sins I ended up fixing a bunch of an ex-cow-orker's PHP years ago, and I could muddle through mostly because I'm a Perl programmer.
15:07 <K2> figured out on my own how to make the sshfs mounts work at least
15:08 <K2> Mandevil your rsync suggestion is actually... yeah that'll solve all the problems I am having I think
15:08 <Mandevil> sshfs is nice for user stuff like mounting your audio library at work etc.
15:08 <K2> brilliant
15:08 <Mandevil> But for high reliability stuff I wouldn't event ry.
15:08 <Mandevil> try
15:09 <Mandevil> K2: There are filesystems that will tolerate failure.
15:09 <K2> https://www.hardfought.org/nh/index.php - i'll have that reporting all three servers before junethack starts
15:09 <Mandevil> I see.
15:10 <Mandevil> What you're trying to achieve exactly?
15:10 <Mandevil> Having a page that shows info about all three servers?
15:10 <rld> <@Winsalot> K2: my slex config looks pretty bad in grunthack. Can't even see my inventory without pressing i
15:10 <K2> i'll setup a cronjob have it pull all data from all inprogress-<variant> folders via rsync, and point the script to it
15:11 <K2> @Winsalot there's a bug with perm_invent, go into config in-game and set it for true and reload
15:11 <K2> one time only thing
15:11 <K2> Mandevil: yes
15:11 <K2> just players online for now
15:12 <K2> and not by variant, I dont have that kind of real eastate to spare on the website
15:12 <K2> just on or offline
15:12 <Mandevil> If you wanted more immediacy, you could probably write simple UDP based client-server thingy.
15:12 <rld> <@Winsalot> K2: how do I get to config in-game?
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15:12 <rld> <@Winsalot> nvm, it's shift-O
15:12 <K2> yup
15:12 <K2> Mandevil: thats beyond my abilities
15:12 <stenno> postgresql replicating databases
15:13 <stenno> https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Replication,_Clustering,_and_Connection_Pooling
15:13 <Mandevil> K2: I'm sure there are some nice messaging libraries for this kind of thing.
15:13 <Mandevil> stenno: That's not what K2 is doing.
15:14 <stenno> oh he wants to read from the filesystem
15:15 <Mandevil> K2: At any rate, rsync run from crontab will give you up to 1 minute delay.
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15:18 <K2> yeah that would be plenty for a web-based display
15:18 <K2> its not like the website gets a huge amount of traffic
15:18 <K2> but i do like the server status thing i setup
15:18 <Mandevil> You can also do some clever front-end based stuff.
15:18 <K2> give me a warm and fuzzy
15:19 <Mandevil> Like the page being actually composed from request from the three servers.
15:19 <Mandevil> AJAX.
15:19 <Mandevil> That would probably be how I would do it.
15:19 <K2> right now the status updtes on page load
15:19 <K2> i took a wordpress plugin and modfied the look and feel
15:19 <K2> it listens on port 22/tcp
15:20 <stenno> if you want realtime communication with the browser, you should look at websocket
15:20 <stenno> and ajax shortpolling as alternative if the backend is php
15:20 <Mandevil> stenno: simple GET is enough for this.
15:20 <K2> hterm uses that
15:20 <Mandevil> No reason to use websocket for stuff this simple.
15:21 <Mandevil> Basically make a single script that ouputs piece of text, then write short javascript that will request data from three servers.
15:21 <stenno> oh i thought the page was supposed to update live
15:21 <Mandevil> s/single/simple/
15:21 <stenno> then i misunderstood
15:21 <Mandevil> stenno: It can update live
15:21 <Mandevil> stenno: It still doesn't need websocket for that.
15:21 <stenno> probably
15:21 <Mandevil> stenno: WebSocket is for when you need to keep communicating, not for occasional update.
15:22 <stenno> ah then we call different things "live" :P
15:22 <K2> :)
15:22 <K2> thanks for the feedback guys
15:22 <K2> ok yard work time
15:22 <Mandevil> setTimeout(10000) is live enough :)
15:22 <K2> bbl
15:23 <stenno> Mandevil: i was actually thinking about exactly the same interval
15:23 <rld> <@Winsalot> Does ogre race in grunthack has any advantages?
15:23 <Mandevil> Strength I guess.
15:24 <Mandevil> I think all the extra races in Grunt are terrible.
15:24 <NewbProgrammer10> ^
15:24 <Mandevil> They basically have no advantages.
15:24 <Mandevil> And many significant disadvantages.
15:26 <Mandevil> @winsalot K2 is one of the few people who won them all
15:27 <stenno> if 10 seconds is a short enough interval, then you wont need websockets
15:29 <Mandevil> How are the data serialized for WebSockets actually?
15:29 <Mandevil> I have never used it so far.
15:30 <Mandevil> Since generally simple GET is enough for me.
15:30 <stenno> they have these frame
15:30 <stenno> s
15:30 <stenno> i didn't look too deep into it either
15:30 <stenno> but in our latest project we actually use them for a live messaging window
15:30 <rld> <@Winsalot> gh curses still sucks. Cant even see how much hp/pw I have. Is there somewere where I could just copy grunthack curses config?
15:30 <Mandevil> Yeah, that's what websockets are for.
15:31 <stenno> yeah its pretty cool
15:31 <stenno> and trust me, writing modern javascript is really great
15:32 <Mandevil> Just select from dozen or more frameworks, setup your webpack...
15:32 <stenno> you can use FP pattern without problems
15:32 <stenno> no, no
15:32 <Mandevil> And iterate every two weeks or so.
15:32 <stenno> or not
15:34 <stenno> transpiling for frontend looks a bit like that
15:34 <PavelB> Writing modern js is better than writing ancient js but I wouldn't call it "great"
15:34 <Mandevil> Yeah, something like that :)
15:34 <PavelB> I wouldn't call it "good" either. Even "acceptable" is a bit of a stretch.
15:35 <stenno> i mean ES2017
15:35 <stenno> what do you mean
15:35 <stenno> ES5?
15:35 <Mandevil> ES2017? That will be supported in browsers in 3017?
15:35 <Mandevil> That's what it means, right?
15:35 <stenno> no i asked what PavelB means with modern
15:36 <PavelB> I mean Es8
15:36 <stenno> ok
15:36 <stenno> what language would you call great?
15:36 <Mandevil> Perl :)
15:37 <PavelB> ES8 itself is decent, but as long as webdevs have to support IE8 you have to either stick with ES5 or get stuck in tooling hell with transpilers and frameworks.
15:37 <stenno> webdevs do _not_ have to support IE8 lmao
15:37 <Mandevil> Does still people have to support IE8?
15:37 <stenno> disqualified
15:37 <PavelB> I do
15:37 <Mandevil> s/Does/Do/
15:37 <PavelB> Send help
15:37 <stenno> oh yeah then i can understand why you don't like javascript
15:37 <Mandevil> PavelB: My commiserations.
15:37 <Mandevil> Even IE9 isn't all that great.
15:38 <Mandevil> Read "it's awful".
15:38 <stenno> no, but luckily this doesn't really need to be supported either
15:38 <Mandevil> Currently in my company it's IE11.
15:38 <Mandevil> That's better, but still problems crop up.
15:38 <stenno> thats not perfect but decent
15:38 <stenno> yeah
15:39 <Mandevil> PRoblems that are solved in Chrome/Firefox long time ago.
15:39 <stenno> edge is def. the best MS browser
15:39 <stenno> still in the shadow of chrome/ff
15:39 <PavelB> Having to pipe your code through 5 transpilers in and of itself wouldn't be *that* bad if npm wasn't complete garbage.
15:39 <Mandevil> Yeah, but Edge doesn't run ActiveX, right?
15:39 <stenno> activex?
15:39 <stenno> thats a name i haven't seen in a long time
15:39 <stenno> is that still a thihng?
15:39 <stenno> lmao
15:39 <Mandevil> Apparently, ActiveX apps are a thing.
15:39 <stenno> activex aka active security hole
15:39 <Mandevil> Lol.
15:40 <Mandevil> We have such an application.
15:40 <PavelB> It is if you're running Windows 7 or 8, and a lot of people still do.
15:40 <Mandevil> It's garbage, of course.
15:40 <Mandevil> But intra-company apps are garbage pretty much every time.
15:40 <stenno> MS did a lot of things better with their latest releases
15:40 <Mandevil> Except for the apps I wrote ;)
15:40 <stenno> ^_^"
15:41 <PavelB> I'm considering switching to edge so I can make use of Redstone 5 sets
15:41 <stenno> whats that?
15:41 <stenno> oh the windows 10 build, i see
15:41 <stenno> not really my world
15:41 <Mandevil> That must be something amazing to warrant switching to Edge.
15:41 <Mandevil> Make no mistake, Edge might be decent, but it's not a leader.
15:42 <stenno> yeah i agree
15:42 <PavelB> It's a thing where you can group windows like Explorer, PowerShell, Settings, etc. into tabs along with Edge
15:43 <PavelB> So I can have a tab open with edge open to stackoverflow, a tab with vim to edit code, and another tab with explorer to let me see the directory structure.
15:43 <Mandevil> What's the point?
15:43 <stenno> so a mini tabbed window manager?
15:43 <Pinkbeast> One of these days they may even reinvent the non-shitty window manager
15:43 <PavelB> You can have vim open, click "new tab", and go to SO without needing to click an entire extra button to open your browser.
15:44 <Mandevil> PavelB: Windows have tabs... down in the taskbar.
15:44 <Mandevil> PavelB: Why would I want to have windows in Edge window?
15:45 <PavelB> I'm not saying this is the greatest feature ever, but it is a nice little way to be able to organize windows together
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15:45 <Mandevil> I just use virtual desktops
15:45 <Mandevil> I don't see why web browser should be my window manager.
15:46 -!- introsp3ctive-m has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
15:46 <PavelB> Well, it's not your web browser. 
15:46 <Pinkbeast> Mandevil: Because you're on Windows and can't use a window manager you actually like?
15:46 <PavelB> This isn't built into edge, it's part of Windows. It just supports edge tabs.
15:46 <Mandevil> Pinkbeast: Not sure if Edge would be a window manager I like.
15:47 <Pinkbeast> Mandevil: I'm not saying it would be - what I'm saying is this is clearly pointless on a real computer where you can pick and configure a WM to taste, but in the Windows world it might be less awful than the normal window management - it's better to have a choice of two hard-configured window managers than one.
15:47 <Mandevil> PavelB: Then I guess I don't understand what Redstone is
15:47 <PavelB> Redstone 5 is just the name of the next major windows update
15:48 <Mandevil> Pinkbeast: I use VirtuaWin and it seems to solve my needs well enough.
15:48 <Mandevil> Pinkbeast: It's not real WM, but it gets close enough.
15:48 <PavelB> You can check it out by enabling windows insider builds
15:48 <Mandevil> PavelB: Ah.
15:48 <Mandevil> PavelB: I am still in Windows 7.
15:48 <PavelB> Oh
15:48 <Mandevil> (though I fairly like Win10)
15:48 <Pinkbeast> Mandevil: Well, yeah, I don't expect someone who has otherwise worked around Windows's WM deficiencies to be interested either.
15:49 <PavelB> I can't stand using non-bleeding edge software
15:49 <LarienTelrunya> windows xp ftw :P
15:49 <PavelB> No matter how broken it may be
15:49 <Mandevil> PavelB: I can't stand upgrading OS every few months.
15:49 * Pinkbeast makes the Debian oldstable face
15:50 <Mandevil> Lol, had quite some experience upgrading our team's server to the most recent Debian.
15:50 <PavelB> Mandevil: Windows 10 was 3 years ago though?
15:50 <PavelB> https://i.redditmedia.com/LV5VDGVTWVlZgd0bKQDIoOC1Ul_RgpP-zz9mLFsAIRA.jpg
15:50 <Mandevil> PavelB: So what's current Windows?
15:50 <PavelB> Windows 10
15:50 <Mandevil> You said that like Win10 are old already.
15:51 <PavelB> 3 years ago is hardly "every few months"
15:51 <Pinkbeast> "Windows 10" is I think a bit of a moving target
15:51 <Mandevil> PavelB: The image cannot be displayed because it contains errors.
15:51 <stenno> Mandevil: to come back to the earlier discussion, i think that modern js is perfect for web stuff
15:51 <Mandevil> PavelB: Well, there's also the thing I would need to buy WIn10.
15:51 <PavelB> Oh oops. It was a bad meme I found on reddit: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/9H8rvQCs/image.png
15:52 <PavelB> Mandevil: They were giving it for free for a solid two years you know.
15:52 <Mandevil> stenno: Perfect for web stuff? You say it like there's a choice!
15:52 <stenno> Mandevil: both in the backend and in the frontend due to its non-blocking IO and its eventloop
15:52 <Mandevil> stenno: It's the best thing for web frontend, because there's nothing else.
15:52 <stenno> well i mean all the things that are not the DOM
15:52 <PavelB> I prefer ASP.NET
15:52 <stenno> imagine you could switch pr-
15:52 <stenno> TRIGGERED
15:52 <Mandevil> PavelB: They were giving Win8
15:52 <rld> <@luxidream> !tell shpingrlde change the ID, I gave you the wrong one
15:52 <Beholder> Will do, @luxidream!
15:52 <Mandevil> PavelB: Which were terrible.
15:53 <stenno> i was a young developer, full of ideals and hope
15:53 <PavelB> Mandevil: No, you could upgrade 7 or 8 to 10 for free for two years
15:53 <stenno> and in my first job, for the first few months, i had to program asp.net WebForms
15:53 <Mandevil> stenno: You make it look like JS invented the event loop.
15:53 <Mandevil> PavelB: Yes, upgrade, then upgrade....
15:53 <stenno> C# is nice, but webforms were the most terrible shit after typo3 that i have seen
15:54 <PavelB> The drawbacks of asp.net itself are made up for by the fact that you get to use glorious C#
15:54 <Mandevil> PavelB: I have things to do. Every upgrade is struggle to get everything work, adjust to new problems, shortcomings etc.
15:54 <Pinkbeast> With any luck 7 will get a stay of execution like XP did
15:54 <PavelB> Honestly, my computer dies and I have to reinstall windows like twice a year anyway.
15:54 <Mandevil> Again, I think Win10 are nice and that I will eventually upgrade.
15:55 <Mandevil> PavelB: You're computer dies twice a year?
15:55 <Mandevil> Your
15:55 <stenno> asp.net webapi is alright
15:55 <PavelB> Somewhere around there, yet
15:55 <PavelB> *yep
15:55 <Mandevil> Must be some wonky hw.
15:56 <PavelB> Yeah, I A) put my computer together myself and B) stuck six SSDs I found lying around the house into RAID 0
15:56 <Mandevil> I put my computers together myself too, that's not an excuse.
15:57 <Pinkbeast> People just love reinstalling in the Windows world I think
15:57 <PavelB> Yeah, but I put mine together poorly :P
15:57 <stenno> Mandevil: hmm i can't think of another language that has stuff like asynchronous iterators
15:57 <PavelB> This isn't particularly related to the windows dying thing but my GPU didn't fit in the case
15:57 <PavelB> So I cut a hole in the case
15:57 <Pinkbeast> I'm pretty sure, say, the Debian install on usagi is >20 years old, chiark started at Debian 0.93r6...
15:58 <PavelB> stenno: C# 8.0
15:58 <Mandevil> stenno: wait, async iterators are a JavaScript feature? In contrast to runtime environment feature?
15:58 <Mandevil> stenno: People confuse language and runtime.
15:59 <PavelB> In C# 8 we get `IAsyncEnumerable<T>`
15:59 <stenno> wait but C# isn't single-threaded, is it?
16:00 <stenno> Mandevil: its a language feature
16:00 <Mandevil> stenno: Maybe I don't know enough about JS, but it appears to me that actually JS proper doesn't have any event loop at all.
16:00 <PavelB> stenno: Doesn't have to be, no
16:00 <Mandevil> (which isn't a fault, of course)
16:01 <PavelB> `foreach await (var i in AsyncCollection)`
16:02 <Mandevil> I guess I am not up-to-date on JS enough.
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16:02 <Mandevil> But these features are the ones that need transpiling, right?
16:03 <stenno> 'need transpiling' as in, if you want to support a wide range of browsers, yeah
16:03 <PavelB> Which generally you do
16:04 <Mandevil> Is there actually a browser that supports all features of a recent ECMAscript release?
16:04 <Mandevil> My impression was that there are actually none.
16:04 <Mandevil> That the support is only partial.
16:04 <PavelB> Chrome is pretty good at keeping up
16:05 <Mandevil> But does it support  less than two years old ECMAscript spec?
16:05 <Mandevil> I mean fully support.
16:05 <PavelB> Don't know.
16:06 <PavelB> Doesn't matter if it does though. You can't only support chrome.
16:06 <stenno> i don't think there is a browser that has 100% feature support of the latest es
16:06 <Mandevil> I mean, you (stenn) tout JS as great for having all those features... but in reality, it's kinda a 'virtual' language.
16:06 <stenno> also it seems that you are right at least in that the event loop itself is not part of javascript spec
16:06 <Mandevil> Something that doesn't run anywhere.
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16:06 <Mandevil> stenno: Ha!
16:07 <Mandevil> stenno: That's not a fault, just don't tout it as JS feature.
16:07 <Mandevil> OK, enough for today, need to sign off of this discussion for now.
16:08 <PavelB> JavaScript is just Java with a shitty type system and incosistent syntax
16:08 <PavelB> Change my mind
16:09 <kritixilithos> *Java is just JS ...
16:09 <stenno> o_O
16:09 <stenno> perl is just C but unlike C its unreadable line noise. change my mind
16:10 <stenno> just as stupid as your statement
16:12 <PavelB> it's a meme
16:12 <PavelB> i think java and js are both bad
16:13 <kritixilithos> then define "good"
16:13 <stenno> still you haven't mentioned what you think is bad about js
16:14 <kritixilithos> tbh I quite like JS's hackiness
16:16 <PavelB> The type system is super inconsistent, the support for OOP is limited, that standard library is small
16:17 <PavelB> But the problems I have with JS are mostly to do with npm and transpiling
16:17 <kritixilithos> why transpile?
16:17 <stenno> Mandevil: so you would say that every language for which a feature-complete interpreter/compiler exist, is a virtual language?
16:17 <stenno> Mandevil: so you would say that every language for which a feature-complete interpreter/compiler *doesn't* exist, is a virtual language?
16:18 <PavelB> Because you can't use modern JS without transpiling
16:18 <kritixilithos> you mean browser JS?
16:18 <kritixilithos> then TIL
16:18 <Mandevil> stenno: Perhaps.
16:18 <stenno> 'support for OOP is limited'?
16:18 <stenno> Mandevil: then i would say that any high level programming language is virtual
16:19 <Mandevil> stenno: BTW, perl is nothing like C.
16:19 <Mandevil> stenno: If you think that, then you have no idea.
16:19 <PavelB> You can have objects but once you have classes and inheritance it becomes hell.
16:19 <Mandevil> stenno: No, it's not.
16:19 <stenno> Mandevil: i just made some bullshit up in response to PavelB 's bullshit
16:19 <stenno> PavelB: javascript has prototype inheritance, not class-based inheritance
16:20 <stenno> PavelB: `class` keyword is just syntax sugar for prototype inheritance
16:20 <Mandevil> ANSI C is not virtual. There are many complires for it.
16:20 <PavelB> Right, and it's a pain in the ass
16:20 <PavelB> TypeScript fixes most of the problems I have with the language itself at the expense of adding another transpiling step
16:20 <stenno> PavelB: "i don't understand it, therefore its bad"
16:20 <Mandevil> Anyway, bed time for me.
16:20 <Mandevil> Good night.
16:20 <PavelB> I do understand it. It's bad.
16:20 <stenno> ok, ANSI C is not virtual
16:20 <stenno> maybe there is a feature complete compiler for it
16:21 <stenno> this statement:  PavelB | You can have objects but once you have classes and inheritance it becomes hell.
16:21 <stenno> shows me that you don't understand it
16:22 <stenno> Mandevil: good night
16:22 <stenno> well i am honestly not really in the mood for an argument either, so i take my last statement back
16:22 <PavelB> Sure
16:24 <stenno> as in an emotional argument
16:24 <kritixilithos> PavelB: so what does JS transpile into?
16:24 <PavelB> Older, IE-supported JS
16:24 <stenno> that is also not really correct
16:24 <stenno> s/not really//
16:24 <stenno> damn
16:24 <stenno> s/really//
16:25 <kritixilithos> ?
16:25 <PavelB> Isn't it?
16:25 <stenno> idk what IE has to do with it
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16:25 <stenno> well
16:25 <PavelB> If you write modern JS, it won't run in a lot of browsers, so you have to transpile it 
16:26 <PavelB> Generally using babel
16:26 <stenno> kritixilithos: transpiling means generally that language features which are not supported by a specific target are translated into language features that can be run on that target
16:27 <kritixilithos> ah
16:27 <stenno> that specific target might be an IE
16:27 <kritixilithos> just that
16:27 <PavelB> Usually you do have to support IE if you're a front-end dev
16:27 <stenno> that is it, basically
16:28 <stenno> kritixilithos: this also goes in the other direction btw, tools like babel can even transpile language features that are not in the official specs yet
16:29 <PavelB> I prefer to deal with old JS rather than rely on babel
16:29 <stenno> for example, object spread is a state-4 proposal which means that it will be in the next specs, however thanks to babel you can already use it
16:29 <stenno> really?
16:29 <PavelB> Yep
16:29 <stenno> old JS is really a PITA
16:29 <stenno> the older, the worse
16:30 <kritixilithos> I should prolly look into babel
16:30 <PavelB> Right, but a day I don't have to think about the existence of npm is a good day.
16:30 <kritixilithos> but I held off because it needed to be set up ^
16:31 <stenno> kritixilithos: its basically a tool that ensures that your code can run on any targeted runtime
16:32 <PavelB> I don't like all the tools modern front-end devs tend to use, I'd rather hand-write the code. I'm not a fan of libraries or frameworks, either. I try to minimize my reliance on javascript in webpages. 
16:32 <stenno> imagine a thing that would allow you to compile C++17 source code with a C++14 compiler
16:32 <kritixilithos> PavelB: in anagol, on several occasions, I write a JS answer that seems to be shorter than others, excited, I submit it, but it fails because anagol's JS is super old
16:32 <stenno> eh that is not the best analogy
16:33 <stenno> PavelB: minimizing the reliance on JS in your frontend sounds just fine
16:33 <stenno> not wanting to use libraries is really silly
16:35 <LarienTelrunya> !tell Chris_ANG is there a reason why my incantifier knight can't eat the 7 +3 arrows?
16:35 <Beholder> Will do, LarienTelrunya!
16:35 <PavelB> Adding a dependency on JQuery is dumb if I'll only use it in four lines of code
16:35 <stenno> you can be proud when you can say: "My external-facing website works just fine without javascript"
16:35 <stenno> jquery is outdated
16:35 <PavelB> Or anything else
16:35 <stenno> there is no need to use jquery
16:35 <stenno> like?
16:35 <PavelB> React, Vue, whatever
16:36 <stenno> yes, if you only 'use react' in 4 lines of your frontend code, then you should probably think about not using react
16:36 <LarienTelrunya> !tell Chris_ANG wtf, and I can't eat the +2 Orcrist either??? yet I can eat my starting +1 long sword and lance...
16:36 <Beholder> Will do, LarienTelrunya!
16:36 -!- kritixilithos has quit [Quit: :q]
16:37 <PavelB> I shouldn't say I don't use libraries at all. Small, single-purpose libraries like SweetAlert are nice.
16:37 <stenno> do you implement your own auth stack on the server side too
16:38 <stenno> you should choose your tools for the task
16:39 <PavelB> Actually, I've never implemented auth for anything. Every project I've worked on either didn't need auth or someone else was responsible for that.
16:39 <stenno> if you have a project and after analyzing you figure out that with react it can be done most efficiently, then you should use react
16:40 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] knavery (Rog Orc Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:16388
16:41 <PavelB> I have to work with react at work, our entire site could be rewritten without javascript and function identically.
16:42 <PavelB> Actually, there's a contact form somewhere that makes an http request, but other than that.
16:42 <stenno> your page is completely static
16:42 <stenno> ?
16:42 <stenno> that sounds as if you actually don't need react, yeah
16:43 <stenno> as reacts strength is in efficiently interacting with the DOM 
16:44 <PavelB> Yep, almost completely static. The few moving bits could be done with CSS
16:44 <stenno> well then
16:44 <PavelB> Every day it makes me sad to think how much js we send to the user
16:45 <PavelB> It's a case of our manager seeing a hot new technology that everyone else was using and deciding we need to use it.
16:46 <PavelB> I'm getting a new job at Microsoft Research working with quantum computing this summer, and I'm pretty excited for that.
16:47 <stenno> if its static anyway, why not render it in the backend 
16:47 <stenno> whats your qualification regarding quantum computers?
16:48 <stenno> or is that more like a career changer
16:48 <PavelB> I'm not particularly qualified, but neither are most people, so I'll learn a lot about it there. 
16:48 <stenno> yeah thats nice
16:49 <PavelB> I'll be working with F# and C and I'm pretty happy about that.
16:49 <stenno> k
16:49 <stenno> i think i haven't seen a single line of F# code
16:49 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:49 <stenno> is it related to C#?
16:49 <stenno> errr anyway
16:50 <PavelB> F# is like if you took C# and Haskell and smushed them together
16:50 <stenno> ah FP
16:50 <stenno> you can use FP paradigms in JS too btw
16:50 <stenno> and really good
16:51 <PavelB> yeah, I like FP ideas a lot]
16:52 <PavelB> I don't like *pure* functional programming, because I find I don't always like working with those limitations, but it offers really clean ways of doing certain tasks.
16:52 <PavelB> F# is like the perfect language for me.
16:52 <stenno> afaik we will get monadic promises in the next js version
16:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] krm26 (Val Hum Fem Law), 4378 points, T:3006, killed by a watch captain
16:53 <PavelB> https://www.wikiwand.com/en/F_Sharp_(programming_language)
16:53 <stenno> also this draft stage https://tc39.github.io/proposal-flatMap/#sec-Array.prototype.flatMap
16:54 <stenno> i have to log out too for today or else i will not survive tomorrow at work
16:54 <stenno> good night
16:55 <PavelB> Cya
16:55 -!- introsp3ctive-m has joined #hardfought
16:58 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
17:02 <LarienTelrunya> !tell Chris_ANG ... something just seems very wrong. I would have been able to eat my +1 starting lance, but I polymorphed it into a +1 sickle and that refuses to be eaten now.
17:02 <Beholder> Will do, LarienTelrunya!
17:04 <aosdict> PavelB: what, you don't like programming with pure lambda calculus? heretic
17:06 <PavelB> Pure functional programming tends to make IO unreasonable hard, and often gets in the way of OOP, which is something I like to use. I think it's good to find a balance.
17:11 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1]
17:15 -!- bobbydurrett has joined #hardfought
17:15 <stenno> about FP, i like that it puts emphasis on immutability by design, and i also like the power of composition
17:16 <jonadab> jilles: Not sure, whatever demon lords do in xnethack.
17:16 <stenno> i always thought of FP and class-based OOP as opposites
17:16 -!- bobbydurrett has quit [Client Quit]
17:19 <stenno> lol F# has something like babel too and it compiles to JS
17:22 <aosdict> PavelB: was joking
17:22 <PavelB> It's called Fabel
17:23 <LarienTelrunya> !tell Chris_ANG wtf, an "amm kamerel witness" is attacking my tame horse with a dagger and the horse isn't fighting back, even though it's clearly capable of moving around! what gives?
17:23 <Beholder> Will do, LarienTelrunya!
17:25 <stenno> when chris_ang connects next time and triggers the message relay, beholder will get excess flood
17:35 -!- introsp3ctive-m has quit [Quit: introsp3ctive-m]
17:36 -!- stenno has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.1]
17:42 <[Demo]> goodbye mr anderson
17:52 <LarienTelrunya> !tell Chris_ANG my incantifier had a stack of 2 tins and tried to eat one; it was blue jellies, and automatically got discarded. This should identify the other tin since it was in the same stack, but it didn't :(
17:52 <Beholder> Will do, LarienTelrunya!
18:30 <K2> @Winsalot - https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/gh/k2.ghrc
18:34 <PavelB> > OPTIONS=!sparkle
18:34 <PavelB> D:
18:48 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought
18:52 -!- noty has joined #hardfought
19:21 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] Naganadel (Wiz Ang Fem Cha) killed Ruggo the Gnome King, on T:3274
19:25 <bug_sniper> !who
19:25 <Beholder> bug_sniper: [hdf-us] Naganadel [slex] krm26 [fh] amelie [xnh] 
19:25 <Beholder> bug_sniper: [hdf-eu] No current players
19:25 <Beholder> bug_sniper: [hdf-au] No current players
19:26 <bug_sniper> so, we finally have an australian server
19:28 -!- deadnoob_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
19:29 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought
19:33 -!- Grassy has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:33 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought
19:33 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ
19:37 -!- Grassy has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:39 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought
19:39 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ
19:39 -!- Grassy has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:39 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought
19:39 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ
19:40 <K2> !who
19:40 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-us] Naganadel [slex] krm26 [fh] amelie [xnh] 
19:40 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-eu] No current players
19:40 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-au] No current players
19:40 <bug_sniper> !who
19:40 <Beholder> bug_sniper: [hdf-us] krm26 [fh] k2 [4k] amelie [xnh] 
19:40 <Beholder> bug_sniper: [hdf-eu] No current players
19:40 <Beholder> bug_sniper: [hdf-au] No current players
19:42 <bug_sniper> yani: make the door autoopen code automatically use your best key on locked doors
19:42 <rld> <@rikersan> fiqhack does that iirc
19:42 <bug_sniper> that will help a lot for slashem extended, where you're supposed to carry many keys because keys break
19:43 <LarienTelrunya> you can also kick them open or cast the knock spell ;)
19:44 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Zee (krm26) (Ran Hum Fem Neu), 35113 points, T:5294, killed by a guard
19:45 <bug_sniper> while waking everyone up and angering the guards and not being able to close it again
19:48 -!- Grassy has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:06 <FIQ> !who
20:06 <Beholder> FIQ: [hdf-us] k2 [spl] knavery [nh361] amelie [nh361] 
20:06 <Beholder> FIQ: [hdf-eu] No current players
20:06 <Beholder> FIQ: [hdf-au] No current players
20:08 <LarienTelrunya> K2: I guess there's no use in inviting you ;)
20:08 <K2> no ;)
20:08 <rld> <@rikersan> oh amy did you invite me
20:08 <LarienTelrunya> rikersan: I will once you register at https://junethack.net :)
20:08 <rld> <@rikersan> kk
20:08 <rld> <@rikersan> invite me
20:09 <LarienTelrunya> invitation sent!
20:10 <rld> <@rikersan> -1 can't use multiple accts on hte same server
20:10 <Announcy> Junethack: New user rikersan registered! https://junethack.net/user/rikersan
20:10 <LarienTelrunya> yay, 6 users registered and 5 of them are in my clan :D
20:10 <Announcy> Junethack: New user K2 registered! https://junethack.net/user/K2
20:10 <Announcy> Junethack: New user Anerag registered! https://junethack.net/user/Anerag
20:10 <Announcy> Junethack: New user ProzacElf registered! https://junethack.net/user/ProzacElf
20:10 <rld> <@rikersan> can you invite 'rikerw' amy?
20:10 <Announcy> Junethack: New user Demo registered! https://junethack.net/user/Demo
20:10 <Announcy> Junethack: New clan SlexyRobberNymphets created! https://junethack.net/clan/SlexyRobberNymphets
20:10 <LarienTelrunya> rikersan: yes :) done!
20:11 <Announcy> Junethack: New user AmyBSOD registered! https://junethack.net/user/AmyBSOD
20:11 <Announcy> Junethack: New user rikerw registered! https://junethack.net/user/rikerw
20:12 <LarienTelrunya> aosdict: I guess you can't be persuaded to be part of the nympets either? just making sure ;)
20:12 <rld> <@rikersan> can I like get admin privs :P
20:13 <rld> <@rikersan> so junethack starts tracking from june 1?
20:13 <rld> <@rikersan> what abotu games that were started before then?
20:13 <LarienTelrunya> uhh, not sure if the tournament allows a clan admin to make another member into a co-admin
20:13 <Announcy> Junethack: New user aosdict registered! https://junethack.net/user/aosdict
20:13 <LarienTelrunya> only games started at june 1 or later can count
20:13 <rld> <@rikersan> kk
20:13 <LarienTelrunya> and you must finish before july 1 (Grasshopper missed out on getting credit for an ascension because he took a few seconds too long)
20:14 <rld> <@rikersan> R I P
20:14 <NewbProgrammer10> Hehe.
20:14 <Announcy> Junethack: New user dell00 registered! https://junethack.net/user/dell00
20:15 <NewbProgrammer10> That's me ^
20:15 <aosdict> "Registration successful. Now please log in."
20:15 <aosdict> 0/10 customer service
20:15 <NewbProgrammer10> Heeheee.
20:15 <LarienTelrunya> NewbProgrammer10: would you like to join a clan? the slexy robber nymphets would be pleased to have you around :)
20:15 <NewbProgrammer10> At least the rules are very good, aosdict
20:16 <aosdict> I will plug Improved Tin Openers since stenno's not around
20:16 <NewbProgrammer10> LarienTelrunya: where?
20:16 <rld> <@rikersan> she'll send a junethack invite
20:16 <rld> <@rikersan> go to your profile
20:16 <LarienTelrunya> NewbProgrammer10: you should see an invitation once you refresh the page :)
20:16 <aosdict> stenno: going to create the clan?
20:17 <NewbProgrammer10> Wait... AmyBSOD started this?
20:18 <NewbProgrammer10> Isn't she the one who created that awesome fork of ToME2?
20:18 <rld> <@rikersan> that's larientelrunya
20:18 <rld> <@rikersan> :p
20:18 <NewbProgrammer10> Oof.
20:18 <rld> <@rikersan> and probably
20:18 <LarienTelrunya> yes, that's me :) I'm surprised someone knows my ToME fork, awesome!
20:18 <rld> <@rikersan> assuming you mean "kinky" when you say "awesome"
20:19 <NewbProgrammer10> Looking up the definition for kinky...
20:19 <rld> <@rikersan> I'd recommend against it.
20:19 <NewbProgrammer10> Oof.
20:20 <[Demo]> jesus christ lol
20:20 <rld> <@rikersan> what's the tome2 fork like?
20:20 <rld> <@rikersan> ikr demo
20:20 <rld> <@rikersan> anyway amy thanks for the clan invite
20:20 <rld> <@rikersan> are you going to ascend slex, do you think?
20:22 <LarienTelrunya> well I'll try, but can't promise that I'll succeed
20:22 <LarienTelrunya> that's why we need Tariru :)
20:22 <NewbProgrammer10> Look here, I've played Nethack for seven years and haven't ascended. I'll bet 2 bucks if I ascend while the tournament is on.
20:22 <NewbProgrammer10> Two bucks.
20:23 * NewbProgrammer10 leaves slowly to start playing NH.
20:23 <Announcy> Junethack: New user Lymia registered! https://junethack.net/user/Lymia
20:23 <Announcy> Junethack: New user dizzylizzy registered! https://junethack.net/user/dizzylizzy
20:23 <Announcy> Junethack: New user Pavel registered! https://junethack.net/user/Pavel
20:23 <PavelB> aosdict: Can I join your clan :3
20:24 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:25 <PavelB> RIP rld
20:26 -!- rld has joined #hardfought
20:26 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ
20:26 <rld> <@Pavel> nvm it's back
20:27 <aosdict> PavelB: what's your jnh username
20:27 <PavelB> Pavel
20:27 <aosdict> (created the clan since stenno seems not to be around)
20:27 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:27 <PavelB> Thanks
20:27 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Quit: two forces in balance \\ ancient endless balance \\ then nothing]
20:28 <aosdict> greqrg: ^^
20:28 <PavelB> Is there a minimum turn count for a run to be recorded on jnh?
20:28 -!- rld has joined #hardfought
20:28 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ
20:29 <aosdict> no
20:30 <PavelB> What separates unique deaths? Is it just what you got killed by or are there other factors?
20:30 <PavelB> My plan is basically to die a lot.
20:30 <aosdict> I think it's just what you get killed by. Not the crazy clusterpile of trying to parse out the "fair" ones that was devnull.
20:31 <aosdict> though you should coordinate with Wooble, who should be joining this clan too
20:31 <aosdict> Wooble is the resident unique deaths expert
20:31 -!- dizzylizzy has joined #hardfought
20:31 <PavelB> Or I could hold down the s key for a while
20:32 <Announcy> Junethack: New clan ImprovedTinOpeners created! https://junethack.net/clan/ImprovedTinOpeners
20:32 <Announcy> Junethack: New user bugsniper registered! https://junethack.net/user/bugsniper
20:33 <PavelB> Damn, there are a *lot* of Unnethack trophies
20:33 <PavelB> It seems to be the most lucrative variant in that regard
20:35 <dizzylizzy> maybe vanilla should track more game achievements :D
20:35 <[Demo]> gee i wonder why unnethack gets the most trophies?
20:35 <bug_sniper> you you've seen, I play the game very slowly and take a lot of breaks between sessions
20:35 <K2> because of all the data it places in the xlogfile
20:35 <bug_sniper> *as you've
20:35 * PavelB is a noob and legitimately has no idea why
20:35 <[Demo]> if i was running junethack id make ppl play my variant too
20:36 <[Demo]> id just like to point out that thats whats being done and its funny
20:36 <dizzylizzy> what's that expression... "Vanilla isn't a flavor, it's an admission of defeat" ?
20:37 <PavelB> Does development on all variants freeze during Junethack? Or can there still be updates?
20:37 <[Demo]> thats always been how it is in the past
20:37 <dizzylizzy> not on the servers
20:37 <aosdict> I thought dnh had the most trophies
20:37 <[Demo]> it is no longer necessary to be that way
20:37 <bug_sniper> 502 Bad Gateway
20:37 <bug_sniper> on the junethack website
20:37 <PavelB> Same here
20:38 <aosdict> did the... yeah
20:38 <bug_sniper> people can release bugfixes during junethack but that's it
20:38 <aosdict> I mean, there's nothing that can stop K2 from applying updates
20:38 <aosdict> or that can stop variant devs from making them
20:38 <bug_sniper> I guess people can work on a branch that's set for release after junethack
20:38 <aosdict> but it's good form not to
20:39 <K2> ^ that
20:39 <PavelB> Who runs junethack, anyway?
20:39 <aosdict> bhaak
20:39 <dizzylizzy> Junethack Event-Running Komittee
20:39 <K2> example: say LarienTelrunya decided to release slex version 2.3 with a ton of new features. I wouldnt update to it on hardfought until after the tourney
20:40 <K2> i'm taking bug fixes only during the tourney
20:40 <LarienTelrunya> K2: yeah I am in fact already working on slex 2.23, but won't put that on esm either; I take the feature freeze seriously ;)
20:40 <jonadab> Personally, my policy is that my master branch gets bugfixes only this time of year.
20:41 <K2> i dont know of any variant authors who try to push a feature update during the tournament
20:42 -!- MiseryMyra has joined #hardfought
20:42 <jonadab> But I lean toward the conservative and well defined end of the release spectrum cycle.  When I'm pushing toward a release, I don't merge disruptive feature work, for example.
20:42 * aosdict quickly checks to see if there are any xnh unpushed features
20:42 <jonadab> Err, release cycle spectrum
20:43 <aosdict> bhaak: junethack site seems broken somehow, it's 502ing
20:43 <LarienTelrunya> unfortunately I need to get some sleep now because I've specifically stayed up so I could be the first one to register, which means that the other clans will have time to catch up numbers-wise :D
20:43 <jonadab> I _don't_ usually have firm deadlines.  But I _do_ have a well defined cycle, and when I'm in feature freeze, I'm in feature freeze.
20:43 <jonadab> Though I occasionally will merge a non-disruptive feature, such as a UI-only option, if it's easy and simple and won't screw anything up.
20:44 <K2> yeah
20:44 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Clan SlexyRobberNymphets is looking for new recruits! LarienTelrunya will gladly invite you once she comes back :)]
20:44 <jonadab> But I have no trouble telling users who are asking for a specific feature, "Sorry, not till next version, it's too late in my release cycle for that."
20:46 <aosdict> My release "cycle" is entirely determined by when I decide to make a savebreaking change.
20:49 <rld> <@rikersan> lol junethack is down
20:49 <PavelB> you're a tad bit late on noticing that
20:57 <dizzylizzy> it's up in our hearts
20:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] k2 (Arc Ang Mal Law), 3255 points, T:3428, killed by an Uruk-hai
21:00 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
21:03 -!- NewbProgrammer10 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1]
21:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [gh] k2 (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 294 points, T:593, dissolved by an acid blob
21:05 <aosdict> ouch
21:06 <PavelB> RIP
21:06 <PavelB> !who
21:06 <Beholder> PavelB: [hdf-us] k2 [gh] knavery [nh361] amelie [nh361] 
21:06 <Beholder> PavelB: [hdf-eu] No current players
21:06 <Beholder> PavelB: [hdf-au] No current players
21:06 <K2> that was somewhat on purpose
21:06 <K2> game got really stupid really quickly
21:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] amelie (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 1235 points, T:2424, killed by a giant ant, while fainted from lack of food
21:32 <bug_sniper> !who
21:32 <Beholder> bug_sniper: [hdf-us] Luxidream [dyn] k2 [gh] knavery [nh361] amelie [nh361] 
21:32 <Beholder> bug_sniper: [hdf-eu] No current players
21:32 <Beholder> bug_sniper: [hdf-au] No current players
21:40 -!- nooodle has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
21:55 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dyn] Crashlich (Luxidream) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 18984 points, T:14548, killed by a bolt of lightning
21:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] amelie (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming an iron piercer, on T:5869
22:01 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] amelie (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 5240 points, T:6146, died of starvation, while fainted
22:02 -!- tacco| has quit []
22:04 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought
22:05 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought
22:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] amelie (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (arch-lich), on T:1169
22:07 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
22:07 -!- elenmirie_ is now known as elenmirie
22:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] amelie (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 736 points, T:1626, killed by a bolt of fire
22:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] amelie (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 136 points, T:409, killed by tumbling down a flight of stairs
22:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] amelie (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3221
22:38 <PavelB> Junethack is still down...
22:38 <[Demo]> yeah bhaak is a german
22:38 <[Demo]> so asleep
22:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] amelie (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a titan, on T:4602
22:52 <aosdict> not a bad first poly
22:53 <[Demo]> comr ripper
22:53 <[Demo]> that's a bad one
22:53 <rld> <@luxidream> yeah but you would have to drink poly
22:53 <rld> <@luxidream> or have worn it
22:53 <aosdict> yeah but if it was a trap or something, you couldn't be wearing a comr
22:54 <aosdict> and still poly
22:55 <[Demo]> right
22:55 <[Demo]> so I'm assuming test drank potion
22:55 <[Demo]> and lost
22:56 <rld> <@luxidream> or had polycont
22:56 <rld> <@luxidream> and did it on purpose
22:56 <[Demo]> good point
22:56 <[Demo]> never know what wiz startscum rings
22:56 <rld> <@luxidream> seems much more likely than rolling a titan randomly
22:57 <aosdict> or could have been quaff testing but removed torso armor because foresight
22:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [gh] k2 (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 12252 points, T:7978, killed by a chameleon
22:57 <[Demo]> just dip some shit in it
22:57 <[Demo]> instead of stripping
22:57 <[Demo]> put a scroll in it
22:58 <rld> <@luxidream> they have polymorph control
22:58 <[Demo]> yey
23:13 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
23:29 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought
23:35 <dizzylizzy> what a colorful channel
23:35 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] amelie (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 9502 points, T:6991, killed by a human mummy
23:35 <dizzylizzy> aosdict: most of my 361 rc should be fine with xnethack, yes?
23:35 <rld> <@luxidream> is it bad that I treat the knight quest artifact as a license to kill
23:50 <bouquet> Is it just me or is junethack.net thowing a 502 Bad Gateway error for anyone else?
23:51 <dizzylizzy> Everyone
23:52 <dizzylizzy> Give bhaak a few hours, s'all good
23:54 <bouquet> Did you try turning it off and on again?
23:55 <bouquet> I'm sorry. It's habit.