00:01 -!- nooodle has joined #hardfought 00:04 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:10 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:15 !who 01:15 PavelB: [hdf-us] hypnotist [nh361] 01:15 PavelB: [hdf-eu] Grasshopper [nh361] 01:29 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:29 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 01:43 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:48 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:48 !tell Grasshopper there already is a lag monster in slex, guess what it does! :D 01:48 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 01:56 !tell jonadab how is the polearm interface "terrible"??? it all comes down to mastering your muscle memory, I constantly use polearms in slex with little trouble ;) 01:56 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:14 LarienTelrunya: You're targeting monsters with your muscle memory? 02:15 more or less, yeah; a b (horizontal direction key) (diagonal direction key) . "The single-edged polearm hits the giant eel!" Repeat until the monster is dead. 02:16 oh wait, I got it now: all those who are complaining about the allegedly "awful polearms interface" are using vikeys! no wonder! with vikeys, everything is awful :P number pad ftw! 02:16 I use number pad. 02:16 I still think polearms have terrible interface. 02:17 Especially compared to Crawl. 02:17 wtf 02:17 maybe another problem with vanilla polearms is that you can only target things in a straight line with low skill (in SLASH'EM, as long as the distance is 2 squares, you can hit it regardless of skill, also at a knight's distance or diagonally) 02:18 How many tiles can you hit? 02:19 16 (all the colored ones on https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Pounding ) 02:19 in vanilla, the polearm can never hit the "E" marked tiles because no one can reach expert 02:20 And you want players to muscle-memory 16 different sequences? 02:20 well I dunno, the sequence is the same as the one you'd use when trying to walk to that square, except that you prefix it with a and b to apply the polearm 02:21 I have problems with taking you seriously. 02:21 my left index finger is on the "b" key and the little finger on "a", and my right index and middle fingers are operating the number pad 02:21 You are saying that one attack is what, four keys? 02:21 And you think this is totally fine? 02:21 four or five: a, b, two directional keys (which may or may not be the same) and . to confirm the position 02:22 Do you realize that normal attacks are one key press? 02:22 yeah 02:22 So polearms take 4-5 times more keypresses. 02:22 still, I have no trouble polearming monsters and I don't even get carpal tunnel from doing it repeatedly ;) 02:23 People do various strange things, that doesn't make them good design. 02:23 If your design principles center around "I don't have problems with it".... 02:23 ...then I don't know what to say. 02:24 how does it work in DCSS? is it autotargetting? 02:24 a) there's autofight. 02:24 b) there's targetting persistence. 02:24 c) there's assisted targetting 02:25 Even if you don't want to do a), b+c make good sense in Nethack. 02:26 I'd probably have to see it in action to be able to tell whether I'd like such a system 02:26 that reminds me, doesn't FIQhack have something like that? 02:26 Don't know, I generally don't care about NetHack polearms. 02:27 They are totally stupid. 02:27 I wonder if some variant fixes them? 02:30 well as I said, SLAS'HEM (and thus by extension SLEX) fixes the "can only hit four specific squares unless at least skilled" problem, but I guess that wouldn't satisfy you unless the interface is also changed? 02:31 I don't have issue with the skill improving the area you can hit. 02:31 I have issue with the incredible tedium that is using polearms in NetHack. 02:31 In Crawl polearms are my favorite weapon. 02:31 But in Crawl polearms actually make good sense. 02:32 NetHack polearms is just some medieval warfare nut being let loose. 02:33 aren't they taken directly from D&D, right up to using the same damage numbers? 02:34 It is possible, I don't know D&D. 02:35 BTW, in Crawl polearms are: spear, trident, demon trident, halberd, glaive and bardiche. 02:35 the wiki says "A polearm is literally a weapon on a pole. There is an abundance of polearm types in NetHack. This is another feature of the game that echoes early editions of the Dungeons & Dragons games, which were infamous for giving stats for many exotic polearms, while describing none of them." 02:36 heh, spear and trident count as polearms in crawl? 02:36 Yes. 02:36 The last three are also two-handed. 02:37 Mandevil: ISTR polearm target-persistence has been implemented in vanilla. I can't say for sure though as I never use them myself. 02:38 I very rarely use them for very specific tasks (floating eyes, eels...) 02:38 But they don't make good sense because their damage is rather middling. 02:39 Also you can't get expert and there are no nice artifact polearms. 03:07 "What do you want to read? [jFG or ?*] G" "This scroll seems to be blank. You feel wise! You must have been observant." 03:07 Grasshopper: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-05-16 01:48 EDT: there already is a lag monster in slex, guess what it does! :D 03:07 Like, man, check out this paper. It's blank! Wow, cosmic. 03:07 LarienTelrunya, why am I not surprised? :D 03:08 no need to simulate lag for me 04:02 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 04:02 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 04:20 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1] 04:23 Mandevil: FIQHack has both b and c 04:23 for polearms 04:23 it also ha sautoswap 04:23 so you can have a polearm and melee weapon in offhand and it will autoswap to melee in melee 04:23 and to polearms when using f 04:23 f will autotarget an appropriate spot and hit it 04:24 you can also use apply polearm as usual and it will preselect an appropriate target, then you can change the target as you want 04:24 and it will persist when using f 04:32 Nice. 04:32 Now make at least one or two polearms actually decent. 04:39 spetum is almost decent (light, and does 2d6 damage) 04:39 Mandevil: There's a couple of decent polearms already 04:40 2d6 is decent? 04:41 Even long sword has what? 2d12? 04:41 Or is it 2d10? 04:41 ...no 04:41 oh but I'm used to daggers 04:41 Long sword is 1d8/1d12 04:41 Hm. 04:42 Halberd is 1d10/2d6 04:42 Bardiche is 2d4/3d4 04:42 Those are the best polearms 04:42 also they're both bloody heavy 04:42 But you still cannot get expert and you still have no artifact. 04:42 Followed by spetum, 1d6+1/2d6 04:42 At least in FIQ you can brand them (if you're very lucky). 04:43 Indeed, no artifact polearm 04:43 But polearm as a base weapon isn't bad (several of them are, but not all) 04:44 Mandevil: Polearms don't need to be superior to melee weapons. After all, tey're not melee weapons 04:44 You can use them in ranged 05:29 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:18 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:18 !pom 06:18 elenmirie: The moon is new for 2 more days. 06:19 <[Demo]> piss off moon 06:19 <[Demo]> be full 06:23 when junethack starts! 06:23 and ends, for that matter 06:23 June 1. 06:23 June 30. 06:24 full moon is May 29 and June 28 so it will probably fall in the nethack full moon period 06:25 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 06:25 <[Demo]> nice 06:26 <[Demo]> it's a blue junethack 06:28 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:35 for the first time ever too I Think 07:10 You see here a razor whip (13 zorkmids). 07:10 that could be fun 07:10 !Who 07:10 FIQ: [hdf-us] k2 [spl] krm26 [fh] hypnotist [nh361] 07:10 FIQ: [hdf-eu] Grasshopper [nh361] pondlife [nh361] 07:11 K2: aww how fleecy! I want to be whipped ♥ 07:11 * LarienTelrunya teleports into K2's current game 07:12 ... 07:15 … 07:15 APic understands 07:15 ktnx 07:18 ok off to work. wooo 07:19 but K2, I want to feel the cute little spikes of your lovely whip! 07:20 I briefly dated a german girl when I was in high school 07:20 she was really weird also 07:20 haha, same level on the weirdness meter as me? :D 07:20 hah no 07:20 :) 07:21 ☺ 07:27 ˙·. 07:28 ̣: 07:34 were was she on the hot crazy scale? 07:45 -!- dewz has joined #hardfought 07:54 bhaak: about a 7.5 07:57 and how crazy was she? 07:58 [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 55177 points, T:11213, killed by a vampire lady, while praying 07:59 freaky crazy 07:59 which wasnt necessarily a bad thing but being 16 yrs old at the time, I wasnt prepared for that 08:00 hehe 08:00 ;) 08:00 !whereis K2 08:00 FIQ: [hdf-us] K2 is not currently playing on this server. 08:00 !who 08:00 FIQ: [hdf-us] TLar [nh361] hypnotist [nh361] aosdict [xnh] 08:00 FIQ: [hdf-eu] Grasshopper [nh361] Dewzmint [nh361] pondlife [nh361] 08:00 hmm 08:00 lots of 361 players 08:00 nh361 day 08:00 I doged a bullet at that age as well. 08:00 hah 08:01 fallen in love with one big time but looking back at it now, it would have been a disaster if we would have come together 08:01 oh yeah 08:01 been there/done that 08:01 aosdict: Paper golems drop scrolls in vanilla 08:01 completely incompatible personalities, we would have wrecked both of us for years 08:02 FIQ: ... yes? 08:02 Some special casing is required for balance: glass golems never drop 08:02 potions, and paper golems never drop scrolls or spellbooks. 08:03 FIQ: I meant paper golems will never drop random labeled scrolls. 08:03 I see her now regularly on class gatherings we started a few years ago and she is super nice and fun to hang out with but once a year is exactly the right dose :-) 08:03 ok 08:03 If it rolls a paper object randomly but that object is SCROLL_CLASS, it'll make a blank paper scroll instead. 08:04 Is there other paper objects? 08:04 Besides scrolls and books 08:05 It can generate paper objects that have PAPER as a valid material type. 08:05 Ah 08:05 dragonhide golems when 08:05 Say it rolls a cloak of magic resistance randomly, it'll drop a paper cloak of magic resistance. 08:05 ah 08:06 when will people stop asking about dragonhide 08:06 I have no plans to incorporate that into obj materials because it makes everything broken 08:06 it was not a serious question 08:06 https://ethercalc.org/NHForks.html 08:06 xnh should be part of this list 08:06 bhaak ;) 08:07 well, who owns that page? 08:07 hey aosdict... any plans for dragonhide? 08:07 :P 08:07 shpingrlde does 08:07 * aosdict pushes K2 into the lake 08:08 hi bhaak! is there a chance that the new slex trophies get fully integrated before the tournament is launched? :) 08:09 K2: if only you had paranoid water 08:09 so you could have avoided that fate 08:09 he's welcome to steal xnh's 08:09 but aosdict pushed me 08:10 ah good, tengu did NOT drop a corpse. thus I am not tempted. 08:10 I'll have fun blanking my stuff in the Mines 08:10 once junethack rolls around 08:10 since when does vanilla have water in the mines 08:10 And I will blame K2 for it all 08:10 aosdict: Grunt 08:10 grunthack's water in the mines is a feature :D 08:11 what isn't, though, is that grunthack crashes with a SIGFPE if you polymorph into a yellow mold 08:11 K2: fix it 08:11 LarienTelrunya: the ones you sent me? yes, the website is still the 2017 version. I'm doing soume final touches before I'm putting up the new version in the next few days. the generic achievements work already for SLEX, I think I haven't done the ones with the new bitfields 08:11 the polymorph thing 08:11 it sets current and maximum HP to 0, and then the hitpoint bar tries to divide by zero and boom. 08:13 bhaak: ah, good :) amulet and bell imbue trophies use the old encoding with the achieve bitfield, all the others use the new one where they appear in written out form thanks to your help :) 08:13 object lookup for worm teeth: "Normally made of mysterious." 08:15 LarienTelrunya: what do I need to do to imbue the amulet and the bell? for testing the achievements get recognized correctly? 08:16 imbue the bell: enter the Bell Caves subdungeon while having the Bell of Opening; imbue the amulet: enter the Forging Chamber, Dead Grounds and Ordered Chaos subdungeons while having the Amulet of Yendor 08:17 might have to move in those respective dungeons for it to be recorded 08:17 FIQ: dunno how 08:18 LarienTelrunya: wtf? does that make sense to a SLEX player? :-) 08:18 bhaak: Tariru went through it thrice, so I guess it does? 08:18 bhaak: Yendorian Tower has 3 branches randomly placed among floor 2-99 08:18 You need to visit all the branches to imbue the Amulet 08:19 Why do you think it takes Tariru weeks to ascend slex when he can ascend vanilla within a day? 08:21 bhaak: the goal here is to make slex take so long that it can't be ascended in junethack 08:21 LarienTelrunya: LOL. proof by example of the world best possible player :-) 08:22 bhaak: why do you think I've whined about kotw@slex 08:22 bhaak: no one else managed to get to the amulet in the current version :D 08:22 also junethack should last 2 months to accomodate the ever-increasing # of variants 08:22 it's only really feasible if you have infinite free time 08:23 that reminds me, is Splicehack going to be part of the tournament? 08:23 if I didn't miscount, we're gonna have 13 variants 08:23 LarienTelrunya: I ascended everything but slex in 2016, and I lost Gehennom games more than once 08:23 and that was 9 variants 08:23 it's definitely possible to still ascend everything but slex this year 08:23 that's already quite a feat for kotw 08:24 we're certainly need more cross-variant trophies now and maybe a 'but one' on some of them :) 08:24 I agree with FIQ's proposal 08:25 if you get a trophy for "did X in all variants except slex", getting the same achievement in slex should count double because of the longer time it takes to get it :P 08:26 this remains my most successful NetHack endeavour overall: https://junethack.net/archive/2016/user/FIQ.html 08:26 LarienTelrunya pulled the same stunt in 2017 08:26 -!- stennowork has joined #hardfought 08:26 https://junethack.net/user/AmyBSOD 08:26 hmm 08:26 will we have an australian instance of hardfought for the junethack like we had for devnull? 08:26 I thought you ascended everything but slex last year LarienTelrunya ? 08:27 FIQ: naaaaah, I'm not nearly good enough for that... I could tell you why I failed in some of the variants but I guess you're bored of my whining stories by now :P 08:27 looks like noty got the same amount of trophies 08:28 but ascended more variants 08:28 all but spork, grunt, 4k and slex 08:28 LarienTelrunya: I said "but one". which one is up to the player :) 08:28 basically it comes down to this: FIQhack, dnethack and spork I couldn't ascend because they didn't want to let me win, Fourk I couldn't ascend because I had not adjusted my playing style to the wrenches it throws into the player's gears, and Grunt I couldn't ascend because it's evil(TM) 08:28 LarienTelrunya did all but spork, grunt, dnh, 4k, fh, slex 08:29 bhaak: I think Tariru might be able to pull off "ascend all variants", but only if he really tries 08:29 and for all I know he might not have the free time to 08:29 and slex I had to abandon during a promising game because I ran out of time, but then restored after the tournament was over and proceeded to ascend 08:29 *time 08:30 i ascended all variants too apart from 3.6.0, spork, un, grunt, dnethack, nethack4, fourk, fiqhack, dynahack and slex 08:30 stennowork: :) 08:30 yeah my hayday (sp?) is over 08:30 2011/2012/2013 were my years 08:31 best clan NSBAT 08:31 https://junethack.net/archive/2011/clan/Not%2bso%2bbad%2bat%2bthis.html 08:31 why are fountains red in slex? 08:31 maybe i can poke Nomi into playing nethack again 08:31 but i doubt it 08:31 bhaak: they aren't? the orange "fountain" you're seeing is probably a sink 08:32 [hdf-us] [nh361] TLar (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 143754 points, T:37244, killed by Croesus 08:32 I think "all but one variant" is nicely neutral. I mean, maybe somebody doesn't want to do 343-nao. You never know. 08:32 jonadab: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-05-16 01:56 EDT: how is the polearm interface "terrible"??? it all comes down to mastering your muscle memory, I constantly use polearms in slex with little trouble ;) 08:32 oh, a sink 08:32 why are sinks red in slex? 08:33 because it is a fleecier color than cyan. 08:33 because LarienTelrunya made it so 08:33 They're blue in x. 08:33 because the # glyph is used for obstacles in slex, and sinks certainly are no obstacle so they have no business sharing the # glyph 08:33 I have considered making them gray or white { 08:34 \ makes sense. I'm not used to it yet, but it makes sense. 08:34 And it's way less overloaded than # 08:36 { makes much more sense IMO 08:36 LarienTelrunya: I already had the new bitfield ones, but I had the wrong order, so it recorded the wrong one. that's exactly the kind of bug that won't happen anymore with the textual ones <3 08:37 :) 08:39 K2, will we have an australian instance of hardfought for the junethack like we had for devnull? 08:40 stennowork: Are you in Australia or what? 08:41 Mandevil, asking for a friend 08:43 [hdf-us] [nh361] Tangles (Rog Hum Fem Cha) had Stormbringer bestowed upon her by Kos, on T:13195 08:43 aww yeah... 08:44 for rogue? interesting 08:44 i try to go grays for rogue 08:46 Yeah MB is good too, because of dagger skill. 08:46 Grayswandir... isn't it lawful? 08:46 but stormy is always good :) 08:46 Mandevil: yeah I think you'd have to wish for it. 08:47 yep 08:47 it would cost a wish 08:47 YASI: if you attack with a crossaligned artifact weapon, the total damage your attacks deal is halved. 08:48 getting blasted is already annoying enough 08:48 'a nuisance' 08:49 And rogues can get skill in saber anyway/ 08:49 ? 08:49 LarienTelrunya: ADOM has an artifact that works like that 08:50 Mandevil, skilled i think 08:50 Trident of the Red Rooster? 08:50 either skilled or exprt 08:50 LarienTelrunya: remove the secret corridors. all the progressive variants do that 08:51 bhaak: wut 08:51 LarienTelrunya: That was an order from your superior. 08:51 lol 08:51 LarienTelrunya: You're not expected to ask any questions. 08:52 stennowork" maybe 08:52 : 08:52 intriguing :P 08:52 and the next order is that I should install unnethack's annoying barrier that makes levelport all wonky if you input too high a number? 08:52 we will for sure for the upcoming november tourney 08:53 LarienTelrunya: secrect corridors are annoying and useless 08:54 And they break autoexplore. 08:54 they have a tactical use: keeping monsters away from you if they cannot pass walls 08:56 ugh... I just got an impossible() when removing an amulet of unchanging. 08:56 which game Tangles? 08:56 <+Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] Tangles (Rog Hum Fem Cha) 08:57 huh 08:57 and when I save and restore, I'm still wearing it. 08:57 and it impossible()s again when I try to remove it. 08:57 !who 08:57 K2: [hdf-us] Tangles [nh361] aosdict [xnh] 08:57 K2: [hdf-eu] Grasshopper [nh361] Dewzmint [nh361] 08:57 Hmm... 08:57 yeah it's vanilla 08:57 Tangles: what is the error anyway 08:58 not using curses fixes it. 08:58 so it's a windowport issue. 08:58 * raisse points at Tangles's game, then curses. 08:58 K2, which november tourney? 08:58 not that surprising. 08:58 THE November tourney 08:59 the thing that was devnull? 08:59 i thought it was supposed to not get continued 08:59 last nov was the tribute tourney 08:59 and now we're going to host our own 08:59 no, the thing that is going to replace devnull, because devnull isn't going to be continued 08:59 with custom patches? 08:59 yes 09:00 oh wow 09:00 We'll get llunved tournament. 09:00 llunved? 09:00 stennowork: That's the name. 09:01 oh i see now 09:01 i dont lol 09:01 alright 09:01 K2, devnull llunved 09:01 oh 09:01 ok i get it 09:02 we're holding off on making an annoucement or releasing any details until after junethack 09:02 focus on junethack now, come july we'll release some info 09:02 hm i wonder if i could contribute too 09:03 stennowork: Yes, you can write the scoreboard : 09:03 :-) 09:03 heh 09:03 "llun fedd" in Welsh (f is pronounced v) means "gravestone" 09:03 raisse: Heh, nice! 09:03 and dd is pronounced like th in there 09:04 And the ll- is surely something unpronouceable like lateral fricative or something. 09:04 stennowork in all seriousness, i dont see why not 09:04 lateral fricative yes, unpronounceable no 09:05 put your tongue as if you're going to say 'l', then try to say 's' 09:05 Hm. 09:05 (without moving your tongue) 09:05 Doesn't sound that bad. 09:05 But that feels like it needs lot of breath. 09:05 it does 09:06 (more than actual 's') 09:06 stennowork: We definitely could use some help with web design. 09:06 nice 09:07 would be glad to help 09:07 wooo perseus reflection 09:11 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 09:12 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:12 [hdf-us] [xnh] aosdict (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed Medusa, on T:26955 09:14 ah, dl25 thiefstone somewhere 09:16 !where 09:16 !whereis 09:16 stennowork: !whereis - finds a player in the dungeon. 09:16 !who 09:16 stennowork: [hdf-us] ttc1401 [slex] Tangles [nh361] Rx [nh361] hypnotist [nh361] aosdict [xnh] 09:16 stennowork: [hdf-eu] Grasshopper [nh361] Dewzmint [nh361] 09:16 and all of the above games support whereis ;) 09:17 \o/ 09:18 this soldier had a glass short sword and a glass ring mail 09:18 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:20 glass ring mail 09:20 that sounds like a bad idea 09:21 pity I haven't finished implementing glass melee breakage yet :) 09:22 should armor even be generated using glass as a material? no one in their right mind would make armor out of that 09:23 weapons sure, because you know... sharpy sharp 09:24 in minecraft mods there are swords made out of crystal which do insane damage but only have 1 durability 09:25 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:25 one or two time use only heh 09:25 stennowork: My plan for glass is to incentivize it via +3 damage on piercing and slashing weapons, but there's the always present risk of breaking it, unless you shatterproof it. 09:26 sounds nice 09:27 K2: Sure it's not very flavorful, but it sure is fun. 09:27 heh 09:27 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:27 fun > flavorful 09:28 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Pri Hum Fem Neu) made her first wish - "the blessed greased fixed eye of the aethiopica", on T:18020 09:28 And there's no particular gameplay reason why it shouldn't exist. 09:31 K2: There's also the fact that crystal plate mail is a thing in vanilla. 09:33 yeah 09:34 but for whatever reason, crystal != glass in my head 09:34 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 09:34 prob safe to just ignore my past statement about glass ring mail at this point 09:35 heh, but it raises so many questions! at least crystal plate mail is formed into non-interlocking plates. How do you get it to be made into interlocking rings?! 09:36 very very carefully 09:37 you realize how thick that glass would have to be to be effective... 09:37 must.. resist.. 09:37 T H I C C 09:37 damn 09:38 damd 09:38 K 09:39 with all those variants there are going to be, I'm gonna try to make the pages less overloaded with unnecessary info 09:39 What pages? 09:40 what I have right now is better layout for the trophies per variant and only show variants on the user page which the player has actually played in 09:40 PavelB: for example https://junethack.net/user/AmyBSOD 09:40 Oh, you run junethack? 09:41 * PavelB only found out about it yesterday 09:41 I kinda slipped into running it 09:43 you mean kerio coerced you into it 09:43 it was a complicated time 09:44 -!- MysteryMyra has joined #hardfought 09:47 the way it's designed, junethack tries to leverage as much work as possible from existing resources. 09:48 like using existing public servers and providing no forum of its own. 09:48 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:48 <@Webmant> Alright, since Junethack is coming up, how does on get points? 09:48 <@Webmant> How do the trophies work? 09:48 its pretty straightforward 09:48 https://junethack.net/about 09:49 heh beat me to it 09:49 you register your account during june and play on public servers 09:49