00:05 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
00:24 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Medusa, on T:30801
00:25 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
01:21 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
01:21 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ
02:22 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
02:26 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
02:41 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Val Hum Fem Law), 73987 points, T:8263, killed by a baluchitherium
02:47 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh343] Mishka (Val Dwa Fem Law), 438 points, T:1298, killed by Ms. Baliga, the shopkeeper
02:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] Lymia (Mah Red Fem Cha), 16630 points, T:12226, killed by a monster (giant eel)
02:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] Lymia (Mah Red Fem Cha), 414 points, T:959, killed by a monster (Mr. Kirklareli, the shopkeeper)
02:59 <Lymia> opps
03:09 <Lymia> !tell LarienTelrunya I got sokosolver hybrid race by random. Dlvl 1 wasn't soko, and Dlvl2 was this: https://i.imgur.com/vHMUKP0.png
03:09 <Beholder> Will do, Lymia!
03:09 <Lymia> !tell LarienTelrunya pls 2 fix
03:09 <Beholder> Will do, Lymia!
03:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] Lymia (Mah Red Fem Cha), 114 points, T:378, fell into a pit
03:14 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1]
03:22 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
03:32 -!- MiseryMyra has joined #hardfought
04:06 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] winny (Val Dwa Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming an arch-lich, on T:6130
04:08 <Lymia> Go Team... L?
04:17 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought
04:20 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
04:20 -!- elenmirie_ is now known as elenmirie
04:49 <raisse> not very literate
04:49 <raisse> only nominally literate, in fact
04:57 <Lymia> why is nail polish actually a viable spell
04:57 <Lymia> this girl amy... :v
05:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] Lymia (Mah Red Fem Cha), 2272 points, T:2649, killed by a monster (cheep-cheep)
05:11 <raisse> oh, so that's what that amulet was, I kept it on hoping for reflection or poison resistance
05:50 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] Lymia (Mah Red Mal Cha), 6190 points, T:2673, killed by brainlessness
06:17 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Lol (Bar Orc Mal Cha) was given their Quest, on T:25161
06:24 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
06:28 -!- Tangles has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
06:29 -!- Tangles has joined #hardfought
06:29 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles] by ChanServ
06:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Lol (Bar Orc Mal Cha) killed Thoth Amon, on T:26128
07:07 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought
07:16 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] Lymia (Mah Red Mal Law) killed the mahou shoujo of Lymia, the former Preparing for Exams, on T:2841
07:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] Lymia (Mah Red Mal Law), 17953 points, T:2889, killed by a monster (random number generator elemental), while praying unsuccessfully
07:39 <Mandevil> Tariru: Congratulations.
07:40 <Tariru> Thanks Mandevil
07:41 <Mandevil> These SLEX ascensions take forever.
07:41 <Tariru> Got it down a little faster now, still not sure if I can squeeze one out in Junethack though.
07:41 <Lymia> Grats. :o
07:42 <Mandevil> 2 days of realtime.
07:42 <Mandevil> That's pretty terrible.
07:42 <jonadab> Tariru: How long will it take you to go the full monty in slex?
07:42 <Tariru> Lol, probably forever.
07:42 <Tariru> A pacifist slex ascension would be hell.
07:43 <Mandevil> Isn't SLEX hell already?
07:43 <jonadab> Basically.
07:43 <jonadab> And I suspect some of the races and roles may be technically impossible.
07:43 <Mandevil> Full monty is all races/roles/conducts.
07:43 <Mandevil> Pretty sure that's not even possible.
07:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] ssjs (Gee Arg Mal Law), 29 points, T:60, petrified by a hobbit merchant
07:44 <Tariru> Yeah, the segfaulter is probably pretty much impossible to play.
07:44 <Tariru> Although that might be removed now. But there are still some extremely nasty races/roles.
07:45 <Tariru> Though I'm not sure if any would be completely impossible, with some luck.
07:46 <jonadab> Aren't some of the races sessile?
07:46 <Tariru> I don't think so?
07:46 <jonadab> Though I suppose you could generate with a wand of polymorph at random.
07:46 <jonadab> I _know_ some of them are blind, but that's no worse than zen conduct.
07:47 <Mandevil> Wait, this game also forms streak!
07:47 <Mandevil> The first SLEX streak.
07:47 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Val Hum Fem Law), 4796 points, T:3801, killed by a Woodland-elf
07:47 <jonadab> I thought Tariru already had a two-streak in slex?
07:47 <Mandevil> Apparently not.
07:47 <Tariru> They were on different servers, so they don't show up as a streak.
07:47 <jonadab> Ah.
07:47 <Mandevil> Yeah.
07:47 <jonadab> I see.
07:48 <Mandevil> Hm.
07:48 <jonadab> And this one does, officially.
07:48 <jonadab> That makes sense.
07:48 <Mandevil> If cross-server streaks weren't that problematic...
07:48 <Mandevil> ...I would implement them.
07:49 <jonadab> An important issue with that is deciding how to calculate adjacency.
07:50 <jonadab> Particularly when one server may still have an outstanding game that hasn't finished yet, which may end up not getting ascended.
07:50 <jonadab> Which creates the same issue as NH4 has.
07:51 <Mandevil> You basically might have streak and then suddenly it would get invalidated.
07:51 <Mandevil> Which is something I really object to.
07:51 <jonadab> Right.
07:51 <jonadab> You almost want to not count it until the _next_ game that account plays in that server is completed, so you can see its start date and verify it wasn't in the range.
07:52 <Mandevil> jonadab: That wouldn't even help.
07:52 <Mandevil> jonadab: Since you can start as many games as you want.
07:53 <jonadab> Mandevil: Oh, on _other_ servers, right.
07:53 <jonadab> (In NH4, you can do all that on _one_ server, of course.)
07:53 <Mandevil> Personally, I would simply disable the whole multiple games in progress thing on public servers.
07:53 <Mandevil> And leave that only for local play.
07:54 <raisse> I had a "mini-streak" on nao with two different accounts
07:54 <raisse> started a wizard or something right after ascending a tourist on the tourist account
07:54 <raisse> and of course that didn't register as a streak either
07:54 <jonadab> I don't think we want to start considering multi-account streaks, because it's useful to be able to use a different account to avoid breaking a streak, e.g. if you want to do some Most Unique Deaths stuff.
07:55 <Mandevil> I still hold the only streak in Fourk :-)
07:55 <jonadab> Wait, the _only_ one?
07:55 <jonadab> Wow.
07:55 <Mandevil> Apparently.
07:55 <jonadab> I would've thought somebody else would have one by now.
07:56 <jonadab> Assuming streaks in Fourk are counted at all.  Which, with the NH4 save system, is arguable.
07:56 <Mandevil> They are counted.
07:57 <jonadab> I want to add a monotonically increasing sequence number for each game started, so that still-outstanding games can be detected.  But I don't think I've actually gotten that done yet.
07:57 <Mandevil> Per account?
07:57 <jonadab> Per account, yes.
07:57 <Mandevil> That requires keeping a state.
07:57 <jonadab> The ability to use a separate account and not break a streak has always been a thing, including on NAO.
07:58 <jonadab> Yes, it requires keeping state in a file.
07:58 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought
07:58 <jonadab> I do that anyway in the 4.3.0.5 (bleeding-edge) code, for achievement unlocking.
07:59 <LarienTelrunya> Tariru: congratulations on another ascension!!!
07:59 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: Message from K2 at 2018-05-11 18:27 EDT: I would suggest focusing on and fixing the bugs in slex so a server op doesnt HAVE to make an extra backup everytime a player is about to ascend. this close to junethack, this is the only thing you should be working on imo
07:59 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: Message from Lymia at 2018-05-11 19:11 EDT: Here you are talking about materials putting item names over 80 characters, with your scroll names over 80 characters.
07:59 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: Message from Lymia at 2018-05-12 03:09 EDT: I got sokosolver hybrid race by random. Dlvl 1 wasn't soko, and Dlvl2 was this: https://i.imgur.com/vHMUKP0.png
07:59 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: Message from Lymia at 2018-05-12 03:09 EDT: pls 2 fix
08:00 <LarienTelrunya> !tell K2 there are currently no known bugs in slex's endgame anymore; I'm just paranoid because theoretically there might be unknown bugs
08:00 <Beholder> Will do, LarienTelrunya!
08:01 <jonadab> There are always unknown bugs.
08:01 <LarienTelrunya> !tell Lymia sorry, hybrid races are still being weird, I want to fix that eventually
08:01 <Beholder> Will do, LarienTelrunya!
08:01 <jonadab> That is one of the most fundamental truths of software.
08:03 <LarienTelrunya> !streak Tariru
08:03 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] Tariru Max[slex]: 1 (2018-03-11 - 2018-04-10)(current).
08:03 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: [hdf-eu] Tariru Max[slex]: 2 (2018-04-07 - 2018-05-12)(current).
08:04 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] Lymia (Mah Red Mal Cha), 13880 points, T:4423, quit
08:14 <LarienTelrunya> !tell Tariru now that you ascended the paladin, what are your thoughts? is the role stronger/weaker/different than the rogue or fencer? and what do you think of 2.22 versus 2.17?
08:14 <Beholder> Will do, LarienTelrunya!
08:17 <Tariru> Paladins seem to be a bit lacking in damage output at the end, with no two-weaponing, though high shield skill makes them extremely strong defensively.
08:17 <Beholder> Tariru: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-05-12 08:14 EDT: now that you ascended the paladin, what are your thoughts? is the role stronger/weaker/different than the rogue or fencer? and what do you think of 2.22 versus 2.17?
08:18 <Tariru> They've got good magic options, though I never got a source of energy regen this game, so I was a little limited by power regeneration.
08:18 <LarienTelrunya> yeah you had -99 AC at some point :D I guess the shield and body armor skills really are very powerful
08:18 <Tariru> They've got an easy early fame though, with very decent starting equipment, and high con.
08:19 <Tariru> Even with mirror brand though, the offensive output was fairly pitiful until I managed to upgrade to the double damage geta combined with high-heeling armor.
08:19 <Tariru> Which slowed down the middle to late game a lot.
08:20 <LarienTelrunya> oh, yeah that +10 damage from high heeling probably helped a whole lot
08:21 <Tariru> 2.22 seems fairly similar to 2.17. Discount action is great to have, implants give a fairly solid boost to your ac/extrinsics but are annoying to deal with.
08:21 <Tariru> I take it that the only way to get implants out at unskilled is to use a trap to dequip stuff, or monsters with theft attacks?
08:21 <LarienTelrunya> what did your specific implant do?
08:21 <Tariru> Mine gave 4 ac, and searching.
08:21 <LarienTelrunya> ah
08:22 <LarienTelrunya> yeah, at unskilled it's very difficult to get rid of them; I guess you can rust them away or something if they're of a suitable material
08:22 <Tariru> Can you actually dip it while wearing it?
08:22 <LarienTelrunya> should work, yes
08:23 <Tariru> I had another one which gave 10ac which I might have been tempted to swap out with, the rest gave bad effects or stuff I couldn't tell due to low skill.
08:23 <Tariru> It's probably too easy to get implants with a wand of aquirement, as they seem like they're supposed to be super rare.
08:24 <Tariru> While a wand of acquirement can give you plenty, which is probably the best use for it now.
08:24 <LarienTelrunya> oh, I never thought about getting one that way :D it's okay I think, after all the wand doesn't let you choose which implant you get, and it might become one of the nastytrap ones
08:24 <LarienTelrunya> how did you identify them? secure identify, or were they randomly easy to identify in your game?
08:24 <Tariru> I secure identified a few, and spammed wands of identify on the rest.
08:25 <LarienTelrunya> ah, I see
08:25 <Tariru> According to enlightenment, they were 1/20 to identify.
08:27 <jonadab> aosdict: "You see here 6 iron bamboo arrows (30 zorkmids)."  
08:30 <Lymia> Is there a reason you can't spam the identify spell (assuming you can cast it)?
08:30 <Beholder> Lymia: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-05-12 08:01 EDT: sorry, hybrid races are still being weird, I want to fix that eventually
08:30 <LarienTelrunya> huh? you can spam it, as long as you have enough Pw
08:31 <Tariru> Identify in slex can cause nasty backlashes, including amnesia I think.
08:31 <LarienTelrunya> however, slex identify spell can sometimes result in random bad effects, including amnesia if you're really unlucky
08:31 <LarienTelrunya> ninjaed :D
08:33 <LarienTelrunya> !whereis AmyBSOD
08:33 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] AmyBSOD is not currently playing on this server.
08:33 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: [hdf-eu] AmyBSOD [slex]: (Sco Her Mal Neu) T:25646 The Dungeons of Doom level: 40
08:36 <rld> <@SSJS> !whereis Tariru
08:36 <Beholder> @SSJS: [hdf-us] Tariru is not currently playing on this server.
08:37 -!- ssjs123 has joined #hardfought
08:40 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] jonadab (Cav Gno Mal Neu), 807 points, T:4216, killed by a jaguar
08:42 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
08:51 <LarienTelrunya> omg I just got nexus scrambled and it swapped INT and STR :O now I have 25 INT but only 8 STR
08:53 <[Demo]> wowo
08:53 <[Demo]> now u can mind abuse them
08:58 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Pri Hum Fem Cha) genocided class h, on T:44444
09:01 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Pri Hum Fem Cha) wished for "uncursed greased rotted historic magic marker named thomas nast", on T:44455
09:04 <LarienTelrunya> gah, I used the "acquire implants" strategy and apparently the implant I got gives map amnesia
09:04 <Tariru> At least it isn't full amnesia.
09:04 <Tariru> How did you get 25 STR so early?
09:04 <LarienTelrunya> there's also something invisible that has inertia attacks
09:05 <LarienTelrunya> not really 25 STR, but rather 18/20 or so, which translates to 38 for other stats but the display only goes up to 25
09:07 -!- tacco| has joined #hardfought
09:07 -!- MisteryMyra has joined #hardfought
09:08 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
09:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Lol (Bar Orc Mal Cha) killed Sir Garland, on T:27576
09:11 <aosdict> Mandevil: Eh, you don't _have_ to keep state in a new file if you don't want to. Just scan through the logfile backwards and see what the most recent game was for this account and what its sequence number was, then add 1.
09:11 <aosdict> This may run into scalability problems, of course
09:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) made her first wish - "the blessed greased fixed +3 grayswandir", on T:34333
09:12 <aosdict> jonadab: Yeah, there are still a number of illogical material combinations. Not sure how I want to handle them. Ya probably should just get a special case.
09:13 <aosdict> See also, wooden faded palls (because they use the "elven-made" probabilities).
09:21 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Scorpius, on T:35394
09:21 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:35396
09:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Lol (Bar Orc Mal Cha) averted death, on T:28077
09:32 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Pri Hum Fem Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:44883
09:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 speed boots named happy saturday everyone!", on T:37004
09:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:37214
09:48 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
09:48 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ
09:50 <LarienTelrunya> did I mention yet that I love polearms? :D
09:53 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought
09:53 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ
09:54 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought
09:54 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ
09:56 <[Demo]> whu
09:56 <[Demo]> why
09:57 <LarienTelrunya> because it's a ranged attack that doesn't require ammo!
09:57 <[Demo]> reaper is cool
09:57 <[Demo]> that's about it
09:58 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
10:01 <LarienTelrunya> where is the damn downstair
10:02 <[Demo]> >
10:03 <LarienTelrunya> ah finally
10:04 <LarienTelrunya> now things will become especially funny on this maze level
10:04 <LarienTelrunya> because everyone loves doing a full-screen maze while having map amnesia :D
10:05 <[Demo]> epic
10:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:38636
10:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:38648
10:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed the invisible Baalzebub, on T:38939
10:10 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
10:13 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Orcus, on T:39153
10:15 <LarienTelrunya> YANI: if you're polymorphed into a unicorn, you can #dip potions into your horn.
10:16 <Pinkbeast> Difficult with no manipulator appendages, although that opens a can of worms
10:16 <LarienTelrunya> well I'm currently polymorphed into one and I can still throw daggers, apply my polearm, zap wands etc. :D
10:16 <K2> wow... congrats again Tariru!
10:16 <Beholder> K2: Message from Antigulp at 2018-05-11 22:25 EDT: splicehack's newest update depends on a new external file called splicetips. It's still 100% playable, but has to be recompiled to avoid a program in disorder message on startup.
10:16 <Beholder> K2: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-05-12 08:00 EDT: there are currently no known bugs in slex's endgame anymore; I'm just paranoid because theoretically there might be unknown bugs
10:21 -!- krm has joined #hardfought
10:22 <LarienTelrunya> holy shit I found a chainsaw :D only basic skill right now but this might be awesome!
10:22 -!- [Demo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:22 -!- [Demo] has joined #hardfought
10:22 -!- krm has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:39847
10:24 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:40031
10:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (disenchanter), on T:40042
10:31 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) averted death, on T:40555
10:31 <nooodle> i am disappointed that you can't use a "oLS to eat a large corpse
10:32 <nooodle> yani: if you "continue eating? y/n" and then choke, and then are revived, you should get to at least finish eating
10:45 <aosdict> Well, but unlike magical breathing, your stomach is still stuffed full of food, you didn't vomit it out. All it saved you from was choking from loss of air.
10:45 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [spl] antigulp (Wiz Inf Fem Cha), 1643 points, T:1515, killed by a killer bee
10:47 <jonadab> aosdict: Right, some things need to be locked to a specific material.  Silver saber, unless you take "silver" out of its name, would be another.  (I'm actually ok with taking "saber" out of its name and making it usually steel, but maybe not everyone agrees.)
10:47 <aosdict> jonadab: Saber is a thing now.
10:48 <jonadab> And yeah, shields and such could be wooden, maybe even a breastplate, but a cloak, no.
10:48 <jonadab> Shoes could be wooden, in theory.
10:48 <jonadab> This would not be a GOOD idea, but it's possible to do.
10:48 <aosdict> I think ya and crystal plate mail are the only remaining items that have an explicit material.
10:49 <jonadab> wax and tallow candles.
10:49 <LarienTelrunya> jonadab: there are wooden getas in Japan and they're super cute ♥
10:49 -!- Grassy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:49 <aosdict> jonadab: I meant the set of items that are actually affected by this - armor, weapons, large boxes, and chests.
10:49 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya:  In much of North America, shoes carved out of wood, with pointy tips, are a traditional decoration associated with windmills and Holland.
10:50 <jonadab> Also tulips.
10:50 <aosdict> All other tools, rings, wands, etc do not get object materials.
10:50 <jonadab> Ah.
10:50 <aosdict> (Not sure what I want to do with crystal plate mail; possibly allow metal armor to be glass rarely.
10:50 <LarienTelrunya> japan has such lovelies: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSICEdm08Cvgc2HdIP-I6RwbKNGxTPWxqmR1SNrLg0n0ET6xLO24w
10:50 <aosdict> Maybe if you fooproof glass armor, it becomes shatter-proof.
10:51 <aosdict> jYANI ^
10:51 <jonadab> Oh, leather armor is explicitly leather.
10:51 <jonadab> Also studded leather armor, leather jacket.
10:52 <aosdict> jonadab: Took care of all other items like that.
10:52 <jonadab> bronze plate mail.
10:52 <aosdict> leather armor -> light armor, studded -> studded armor, leather jacket -> jacket
10:52 <aosdict> bronze plate mail is removed
10:52 <jonadab> Though that could be consolidated, if bronze is a possible material for metal armors.
10:52 <aosdict> Bronze isn't but copper is, which is the same thing really.
10:52 <jonadab> Is DSM just always dragonhide?
10:53 <aosdict> Yes, the only things affected by different materials are those which had a certain base material.
10:53 <jonadab> I think I'd call copper items "bronze" rather than "copper" if they're armor.
10:53 <jonadab> Weapons also.
10:53 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought
10:53 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ
10:53 <jonadab> Because pure copper is a terrible material for such things.
10:53 <aosdict> Dragonhide is neither an eligible material nor a material that can turn into other things.
10:53 <jonadab> Good.
10:53 -!- Grassy has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:54 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought
10:54 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ
10:54 * aosdict is trying to think of anything that ought to be copper rather than bronze
10:54 <jonadab> Hmm, I think some dictionaries might specifically define "fedora" as being of a certain material; but in practice, the word gets used for any hat with that shape, even if it's plastic.
10:54 <jonadab> aosdict: Ring
10:54 <jonadab> copper ring
10:54 <jonadab> Although, a bronze ring would actually be ok too.
10:54 <aosdict> jonadab: That won't be affected.
10:54 <jonadab> Wait, there might be both.
10:55 <jonadab> Ah, ok.
10:55 <jonadab> Right, ring material is probably appearance-driven.
10:55 <aosdict> I'm referring to changing "copper" to "bronze" in the materialnm[] array.
10:55 <jonadab> Right, ok.
10:55 <jonadab> Oh, "elven leather helm" could probably just be "elven helm", and then if it ends up being wood or cloth, no disaster.
10:55 <aosdict> I did that.
10:56 <jonadab> dwarvish iron helm similarly.
10:56 <jonadab> "leather gloves"?
10:56 <aosdict> "gloves"
10:56 <jonadab> Ok.
10:56 <jonadab> That's a bit vague, but not worse than "helmet", which was already a thing.
10:57 <jonadab> Oh, shield of reflection probably needs to be locked to metals that can hold a shiny polish.
10:57 <jonadab> And its description specifically says "silver", which granted could be the color, but that still rules out copper/bronze and gold.
10:57 <aosdict> Similarly, mithril-coats are no more, and now we have dwarvish and elven chain mails.
10:57 <jonadab> "iron shoes"
10:58 <aosdict> Shield of reflection is now a "polished shield" and is still default silver.
10:58 <jonadab> Ok.
10:58 <aosdict> Actually, I think it's always silver, due to that not being one of the randomizable materials.
10:58 <jonadab> As long as it can only be one of the metals, that's probably fine.
10:58 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Pri Hum Fem Neu) rejected atheism by offering a gnome corpse on an altar of Chih Sung-tzu, on T:9871
10:58 <jonadab> e.g., if it could be wood, that would be very strange.
10:58 <aosdict> Iron shoes are "dwarvish boots"
10:58 <jonadab> But polished steel or bronze could be reflective.
10:59 <jonadab> Assuming you treated "silver dagger", "silver spear", etc. the same as silver saber?
10:59 <jonadab> scalpel should _probably_ be locked to steel (err, NetHack calls it "iron".)
10:59 <aosdict> I'm generally trying to avoid defining a list of materials for a single item like shield of reflection.
11:00 <jonadab> worm tooth and crysknife should not be randomizable.
11:00 <aosdict> Silver daggers and spears no longer exist as separate items.
11:00 <jonadab> Ok.
11:00 <jonadab> That works.
11:00 <jonadab> Assuming daggers and spears can generate as silver. 
11:00 <aosdict> yep
11:01 <aosdict> Worm tooths/crysknives aren't randomizable because BONE isn't a valid randomizable material.
11:01 <jonadab> Ok.
11:01 <aosdict> Ditto unicorn horns.
11:01 <jonadab> Err, I think crysknife might be mineral?
11:01 <jonadab> Though you could change it to bone if that's a problem, no one would mind, I think.
11:02 <aosdict> Mineral also isn't randomizable.
11:02 <jonadab> Ok.
11:02 <aosdict> Just iron, metal, wood, cloth, leather.
11:02 <jonadab> Oh, "rubber hose"
11:02 <jonadab> But if plastic isn't randomizable, you're ok there too.
11:03 <jonadab> YASI: ceramic "chobham" armor.
11:04 <LarienTelrunya> YASI: a polearm that is literally a shoe on a pole.
11:05 <jonadab> YASI: a spellbook of Giant Foot, which causes an enormous foot to fall from above, crushing the target.
11:05 <aosdict> Randomized appearance: "pythonic spellbook"
11:05 <jonadab> Heh.
11:05 <Mandevil> jonadab: The description would be MANIC MINER
11:05 <LarienTelrunya> keep it coming guys, it's all going on my slex "to-do-once-junethack-ends" list! :D
11:07 <jonadab> YASI: new weapon:  wet noodle
11:09 <aosdict> Made of VEGGY material?
11:09 <aosdict> So, edible?
11:10 <LarienTelrunya> gah! guys you're making me hungry IRL, I have to eat some pasta now ;)
11:10 <jonadab> fruitname:  dish of lasagna
11:10 <jonadab> fruitname:  stuff manicotti
11:10 <jonadab> *stuffed
11:11 <jonadab> fruitname: deviled egg
11:11 <jonadab> fruitname:  cocktain shrimp
11:11 <jonadab> *cocktail
11:11 <jonadab> Man, I cannot type today.
11:15 <jonadab> YASI: new projectile weapon, "long rod penetrator".  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-rod_penetrator
11:15 <jonadab> I am sure nobody will make any off-color jokes about its inclusion.
11:17 <jonadab> EPI:  sarlacc
11:20 -!- ssjs123 has quit []
11:23 -!- MisteryMyra is now known as MiseryMyra
11:30 <jonadab> Naturally, if you are swallowed by a sarlacc, you are held helpless and slowly digested over the course of ten thousand turns.
11:39 -!- riker has joined #hardfought
11:40 <riker> Tarmunora: are you not-afk?
11:40 <riker> and if so, have you done any dnh cavemen/killed the chromatic dragon in gehennom?
11:40 <riker> any tips, and preferably any useful things to wish?
11:41 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought
11:48 -!- noty has joined #hardfought
11:49 <Mandevil>  You start equipping your studded leather armor.  You are now wearing a studded leather armor. Your movements are now unencumbered.  [4 turns]
11:49 <Mandevil> Hm, isn't this strange?
11:49 <Mandevil> FIQ: ^
11:49 <riker> nope
11:50 <riker> armor weighs less while worn in fiqhack
11:50 <riker> not to be confused with armor of carrying, which grants additional carry capacity
11:50 <riker> all armor just weighs less when worn
11:51 <Mandevil> Aha.
11:51 <riker> > You read: "FIQ:  Debugging dNethack, one iron ball to the face at a time."
11:51 <Mandevil> Didn't know that.
11:51 <riker> not even slex
11:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Pri Hum Fem Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming an elf mummy, on T:12693
11:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] knavery (Rog Orc Mal Cha) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:4335
11:55 <nooodle> does anyone else always here the old Wily stages themes from the early mega man games when they're going up the wizard tower
11:55 <nooodle> hear* :p
11:59 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
12:00 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought
12:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ
12:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:42438
12:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:42451
12:04 <Mandevil> It's utterly impossible anything but the plain gnomes.
12:04 <Mandevil> Lords/kings are unkillable for an arc
12:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:42563
12:06 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
12:11 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
12:13 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1]
12:13 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] jonadab (Bar Orc Mal Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping a bag containing 18 items on an altar, on T:3634
12:17 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed the invisible high priestess of Moloch, on T:43113
12:17 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:43130
12:20 <Mandevil> -4 fumbling gloves.
12:20 <Mandevil> And fumbling was buffed in FIQ>
12:22 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] jonadab (Bar Orc Mal Cha) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:4238
12:22 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Pri Hum Fem Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Chih Sung-tzu, on T:14105
12:25 <LarienTelrunya> !rng backtrack to the quest and die there | press on and try the castle again and die there
12:25 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: press on and try the castle again and die there
12:29 <Mandevil> Hm, I have water walking boots... I am still prompted when walking over water.
12:29 -!- riker has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
12:33 <jonadab> Man, the way pets split stacks in 3.6...  I understand why it was done, and it makes sense, and it fits real-world animal behavior...
12:33 <jonadab> But it can be _so_ annoying at times.
12:34 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 32220 points, T:1776, killed by a giant rat
12:34 <jonadab> Especially when you are spending a long time moving around in a small area, such as Sokoban.
12:34 <LarienTelrunya> you need slex's "directive" technique, which allows you to specify whether the pet can pick up items ;)
12:34 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
12:34 <jonadab> And every time you step on one, you get a message.
12:36 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 5987 points, T:182, killed by a falling rock
12:37 <jonadab> Well, a mumak took care of it for me.  By relieving me of my cat.
12:37 -!- aosdict has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:38 <LarienTelrunya> whoa that guy was a pain in the butt, he used his itemportation attack to teleport my weapon out of my inventory :O
12:38 <LarienTelrunya> hopefully I can find it again
12:38 -!- aosdict has joined #hardfought
12:38 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v aosdict] by ChanServ
12:38 <jonadab> Too bad it wasn't an item- levelportation attack.
12:39 <LarienTelrunya> haha, those don't exist, but item-stealers can sometimes automagically get a levelport scroll when they steal something
12:39 <LarienTelrunya> guaranteed if the something was an artifact :P
12:39 <[Demo]> wow
12:40 <[Demo]> I know an easy way to avoid that hassle
12:40 <jonadab> Drop everything, carry no inventory?
12:40 <LarienTelrunya> let me guess: "don't play slex"?
12:40 <jonadab> Or, that, sure.
12:41 <[Demo]> was going with the noninventory
12:42 <[Demo]> u cant steal my shit and leveletele off with it if i dont have any shit
12:44 <[Demo]> whats a weak firey pet?
12:46 <jonadab> flaming sphere
12:46 <[Demo]> hmm
12:46 <LarienTelrunya> fire ant?
12:46 <[Demo]> not sure if that would make a good starter pet
12:46 <[Demo]> oooh
12:46 <[Demo]> fire ant
12:47 <[Demo]> thanks
12:47 <LarienTelrunya> the sphere would die as soon as it encounters a monster :D
12:47 <jonadab> Only if it attacks.
12:47 <LarienTelrunya> that said, it wouldn't stop me from making a slex role that starts with one... but I didn't (yet)
12:47 <[Demo]> fire ant is a really good idea though
12:47 <[Demo]> thanks
12:47 <jonadab> Slash'EM has the next closest thing: a role that starts with a spell that creates a tame flaing sphere.
12:48 <[Demo]> salamander with his fire ant bro
12:50 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
12:54 -!- riker has joined #hardfought
12:55 <LarienTelrunya> one-shotted with lightsaber :)
12:55 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought
12:55 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ
12:56 <[Demo]> im worried fire ants might be too strong
12:56 <LarienTelrunya> really? how so?
12:56 <LarienTelrunya> @v?little dog
12:56 <Beholder> little dog (d) | Lvl: 2 | Diff: 3 | Spd: 18 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 6 | Attacks: 1d6 bite physical | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, infravisible
12:57 <LarienTelrunya> @v?fire ant
12:57 <Beholder> fire ant (a) | Lvl: 3 | Diff: 6 | Spd: 18 | Res: fire | Confers: fire | MR: 10 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 3 | Attacks: 2d4 bite physical, 2d4 bite fire | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, oviparous, infravisible
12:57 <rld> <@rikersan> yeah that's like 2x as strong
12:57 <LarienTelrunya> hmm, the ant does quite a bit more damage and has more AC
12:57 <rld> <@rikersan> not much more ac
12:57 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
12:57 <[Demo]> &d?tiny pseudodragon
12:57 <rld> <@rikersan> @d?tiny pseudodragon
12:57 <Beholder> tiny pseudodragon (D) | Lvl: 2 | Diff: 4 | Spd: 9 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: special | AC: 6 | Attacks: 1d4 bite physical, 1d1 breath half-dragon | Alignment: -5 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, infravisible
12:57 <[Demo]> @d?tiny pseudodragon
12:57 <Beholder> tiny pseudodragon (D) | Lvl: 2 | Diff: 4 | Spd: 9 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: special | AC: 6 | Attacks: 1d4 bite physical, 1d1 breath half-dragon | Alignment: -5 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, infravisible
12:57 <rld> <@rikersan> lol
12:57 <rld> <@rikersan> is it actually 1d1 breath? huh
12:58 <[Demo]> hmmmm
12:58 <rld> <@rikersan> yeah they're pretty not great in the starting game
12:58 <[Demo]> this might be too strong
12:58 <rld> <@rikersan> better that dogs since you won't accidentally kill them with a rebound breath
12:58 <rld> <@rikersan> [demo] add a 'tiny fire ant' maybe?
12:58 <LarienTelrunya> lol I'm constantly juyoing those demons' weapons :D form VII ftw!
12:58 <[Demo]> no thats a slex thing to do
12:58 <rld> <@rikersan> or nerf fire ants
12:58 <[Demo]> no
12:58 <rld> <@rikersan> larien: doe sthat burn them through?
12:59 <[Demo]> i was thinking of adding baby salamander but thats kinda weird
12:59 <[Demo]> why would a humanoid have a humanoid as a pet?
12:59 <rld> <@rikersan> > considers mentioning the slex role with a bondage girl as a pet or smething like that
12:59 <LarienTelrunya> rikersan: it cuts through their weapons ;)
12:59 <[Demo]> so
12:59 <rld> <@rikersan> tha'ts not juyo specific >.>
12:59 <rld> <@rikersan> that happens with even soresus
12:59 <rld> <@rikersan> which is mostly counterattacks
13:00 <[Demo]> no this is slex
13:00 <LarienTelrunya> yeah but slex's lightsaber forms are different
13:00 <[Demo]> amy added her own version of the forms
13:00 <riker> also that reminds me somebody needs to tell chris how broken soresu is :/
13:00 <riker> ah
13:00 <[Demo]> cause dnethacks are too deep
13:00 <riker> like come on, it's an easy +24 AC
13:00 <LarienTelrunya> somebody needs to tell Chris to add Vaapad :P
13:00 <riker> for a neutral elven ana at least
13:00 <[Demo]> someone needs to tell chris to release 3.16.0 for jnh
13:01 <riker> niman might be interesting
13:01 <LarienTelrunya> I mean, Form V has both Shien and Djem So, why does Form VII only have Juyo and not Vaapad?
13:01 <riker> I haven't tried it with the new lightsaber
13:01 <riker> infinity's mirror arc
13:02 <riker> hm I shoudl really try that
13:02 <riker> a niman inc ana
13:04 <LarienTelrunya> gonna be afk for a while
13:04 <riker> kk
13:04 <riker> !who
13:04 <Beholder> riker: [hdf-us] k2 [spl] krm26 [fh] Lol [dnh] knavery [nh361] hypnotist [nh361] ranlhach2 [un] 
13:04 <Beholder> riker: [hdf-eu] Mandevil [fh] 
13:04 <riker> !lastgame Tariru 
13:04 <Beholder> riker: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/T/Tariru/slex/dumplog/1520798174.slex.txt
13:04 <Beholder> riker: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/T/Tariru/slex/dumplog/1525123580.slex.txt
13:04 <riker> gosh darn it I missed it
13:05 <riker> LarienTelrunya: is mirror brand direct from dnh?
13:06 <riker> also damn, what happened to his alignment
13:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Lol (Bar Orc Mal Cha) killed Axus, on T:30283
13:15 <[Demo]> hmm salamander race is pretty done in ndnh
13:16 <riker> stats?
13:17 <riker> also I just realized: they could probably start with small cave lizards [Demo] 
13:17 <riker> also are you and Demo__ the same pesron
13:18 <[Demo]> yes
13:18 <[Demo]> one is discord one is irssi
13:18 <riker> ah
13:18 <K2> !tell AntiGulp thanks for letting me know. The splicetips file is now in the correct place on the server
13:18 <Beholder> Will do, K2!
13:18 <riker> which one is discord?
13:18 <K2> rld
13:18 <riker> no, demo's thingy
13:18 <K2> oh
13:18 <K2> prob Demo____
13:21 <[Demo]> no [Demo] is discord one
13:22 <Mandevil> Hm, do thirsty weapons become cursed when wielded?
13:23 <Mandevil> I have formally ided a thirsty dagger and it still became identified as cursed when I wielded it.
13:23 <riker> sounds right
13:24 <Mandevil> Annoying.
13:24 <Mandevil> Also not mentioned on the wiki.
13:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Val Hum Fem Law), 2048 points, T:1451, killed by a gnome
13:27 <Mandevil> "You cannot free a weapon hand to remove the ring."
13:27 <Mandevil> WTF.
13:27 <[Demo]> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/demogorgon22/notdnethack/master/changelog.txt work so far on ndnh changelog
13:31 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Pri Hum Fem Neu), 30822 points, T:16448, killed by a pyrolisk
13:35 <Tarmunora> @riker: you pinged?
13:36 -!- Tarmunora is now known as Tarmunoraway
13:39 <K2> Mandevil that must be a FIQhack thing. GruntHack doesn't make thirsty weapons cursed on wield
13:40 <K2> SpliceHack updated (us and eu)
13:40 <Mandevil> K2: I forgot to mention that.
13:42 <[Demo]> jesus christ
13:42 <[Demo]> i did so much stuff i dont even remember doing
13:44 <[Demo]> https://github.com/demogorgon22/notdnethack/commit/c9557207d9a41056bacbf67a3a72d52101b8da7e#diff-895accdc6913343d97cdfa588bff55ebR2854 this is a super cool attack
13:45 -!- riker has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
13:50 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
13:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] knavery (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 4970 points, T:8287, killed by a panther
14:01 -!- Tariru has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
14:01 -!- riker has joined #hardfought
14:03 <LarienTelrunya> riker: yeah Tariru ascended; Mirror Brand is from dnethack but might work a bit differently :D also what do you mean his alignment? he was lawful
14:07 <riker> LarienTelrunya: no, he had -66 alignment and 40 sins at the end of the game
14:07 <riker> god was angry as well I think
14:07 <riker> (I think that's what you have trangressed is)
14:07 <[Demo]> sin is sin
14:08 <riker> [Demo]: how OP is acu
14:08 <riker> in ndnh
14:08 <riker> and how hard is it early game
14:08 <[Demo]> you should find out
14:09 <riker> ... ok
14:09 <[Demo]> i have a bad feeling that the end game i super fucking easy
14:09 <riker> does salamander lava halving hp apply to current or max
14:09 <riker> please say current
14:09 <LarienTelrunya> riker: no idea, I didn't see all of his game, but I guess because he was a paladin and broke the code of conduct a couple times?
14:10 <riker> hm ok
14:10 <LarienTelrunya> "You caitiff!"
14:10 <[Demo]> current
14:10 <riker> -66 seems like the lowest possible tho or smth idk
14:10 <LarienTelrunya> nah, in slex it can go down way below that
14:10 <riker> [Demo]: so it sets your hp to 1/2 of it's current, instead of doing -1/2 max from max or current
14:10 <riker> ah ok LarienTelrunya 
14:11 <riker> is acu a forced illithid race?
14:11 <[Demo]> no
14:11 <riker> or can I be an orcish acu
14:11 <[Demo]> yes
14:11 <riker> >:D
14:11 <riker> MR and reflection at lvl 15 lol
14:11 <LarienTelrunya> also slex makes the alignment penalties actually meaningful, i.e. it's 5-10 points for minor things such as theft or hitting a peaceful monster (in vanilla it would deduct one point :D)
14:11 <[Demo]> your host is an orc
14:11 <riker> > 	Full spirit spoiler coming when someone writes one
14:11 <riker> ..
14:11 <[Demo]> so imagine an orc with tentacles
14:11 <riker> ok so I'm gonna try this
14:11 <[Demo]> and all weird brainy stuff
14:11 <riker> yah no I know how d&d illithids go
14:11 <[Demo]> the early game is too slow i think
14:11 <riker> hm maybe
14:11 <[Demo]> i really need advice
14:11 <[Demo]> for acu
14:11 <[Demo]> lol
14:11 <riker> I'll playtest
14:12 <riker> so each xp lvl I summon a spirit
14:12 <riker> how?
14:12 <riker> is there a ritual? hard/easy/complicated?
14:12 <[Demo]> binder rituals
14:12 <[Demo]> for the most part
14:12 <riker> how hard will it be to manage to do them?
14:13 <[Demo]> easy to do them
14:13 <riker> since I know lvl 1-3 bindesr can get fucked
14:13 <[Demo]> hard to fight the spirit
14:13 <riker> wiht hard rituals
14:13 <riker> cool ty
14:13 <riker> so from lvls 2-30 I need to do them ok
14:13 <[Demo]> theres no fucking with hard rituals until ur higher lvl
14:13 <[Demo]> yeah
14:13 <[Demo]> the first one, ahazu, is optional
14:13 <riker> ah alphabetical?
14:13 <riker> and hm ok
14:13 <riker> so can I clone this version
14:13 <riker> or is it unstable
14:14 <[Demo]> yes
14:14 <[Demo]> its stable
14:14 <[Demo]> and you can clone and built it like you would dnh
14:14 <riker> yes but am I gonna miss out on shit in the next couple days
14:14 <[Demo]> probably not
14:15 <riker> k
14:15 <riker> hey can I make a request for change
14:15 <riker> it's a code thingy not a game thing
14:16 <riker> in include/system.h, delete lines 479 and 480 (they error out on os x)
14:17 <riker> also [Demo] can you give me a brief rundown on how summoning spirits work? do I get the effects of binding htem like binders, or just fight htem? and what are the first couple like
14:18 <riker> also [Demo] acu sala don't start with an engraving tool
14:18 <[Demo]> heh
14:18 <[Demo]> so you don't ever bind spirits
14:19 <[Demo]> the first fight, amon, is like a mean mumak with an important horn
14:19 <[Demo]> a lot of them later on drop artifacts that give similar effects to binding them
14:19 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
14:20 <riker> Demo__: looks like the early ones (amon) drop non-artis
14:20 <[Demo]> yeah
14:21 <[Demo]> still useful items
14:21 <[Demo]> buer is the first to drop an arti I think
14:21 <riker> what's his horn do
14:21 <riker> just frost horn?
14:21 <[Demo]> yes so you can summon balam in a few lvls
14:22 <riker> ah
14:22 <riker> y u no vamp acu
14:23 <[Demo]> its part of illithid culture
14:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] dmgdonut (Mar Clk Mal Cha), 405 points, T:532, killed by a monster (bug)
14:23 <[Demo]> they dont like the undead
14:23 <riker> ah
14:23 <LarienTelrunya> if dnhslex had acus, they'd be able to be vampires :P
14:23 <[Demo]> villithids exist
14:23 <[Demo]> but they do not get along with the empire and are treated as outcasts
14:23 <[Demo]> and you are an operative of the empire
14:24 <riker> does ahazu drop anything importatn
14:25 <[Demo]> food rations
14:25 <riker> hm ok
14:26 <[Demo]> hmm not sure what i wanna do about sal acus not starting with an engraving item
14:26 <riker> andy is dead, what can I do with the grease or sesnro pack
14:26 <riker> [Demo]: give them an extra knife?
14:27 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Flan99 (Ana Inc Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:972
14:27 <riker> so I need to do the standard binder rituals right
14:27 <[Demo]> yes
14:27 <[Demo]> except for chupo and dantalion
14:27 <[Demo]> chupo will work on any posionous corpse and dantalion doesnt need a throne to be summoned as an enemy
14:30 <riker> "you feel tender"?
14:30 <riker> lvl 4
14:30 <riker> oh, psychic blast
14:31 <[Demo]> yeah psionic blast is all about the pushback
14:32 <[Demo]> at higher xp lvl it is more accurate and does way more pushback
14:32 <[Demo]> mind blast also scales with xp lvl too
14:32 <[Demo]> does a shit ton of dmg and is pretty likely to lock onto shit with a mind even if it isnt telepathic at xp lvl 30
14:34 <riker> damn, oneshotted by a golden heart
14:34 <riker> @d?golden heart
14:34 <Beholder> golden heart (G) | Lvl: 10 | Diff: 13 | Spd: 13 | Res: poison | Confers: poison | MR: 30 | Generates: special | AC: -5 | Attacks: 1d13 claw physical, 1d1 gaze drain luck | Alignment: 0 | Flags: mindless, teleports, nopoly, stalker
14:34 <[Demo]> whered it come from?
14:34 <riker> that's a bit powerful for lvl 4 
14:34 <riker> astaroth
14:34 <[Demo]> ah hmm
14:34 <riker> I'd recommend turning him into a tinker gnome
14:34 <riker> or equivalent
14:34 <[Demo]> spirits are supposed to be very dangerous
14:34 <riker> taht's still quite tought for lvl 4 but not horrible
14:34 <[Demo]> because you start pretty OP
14:34 <riker> no you don't really
14:34 <riker> like
14:34 <[Demo]> tinker gnomes are weak shits
14:35 <riker> how so
14:35 <[Demo]> the tentacle attack does a lot to things that arent brainless
14:35 <riker> I can't hit a single spirit with my quarterstaff
14:35 <[Demo]> yeah you are kinda meant to use daggers too and your abilities
14:35 <[Demo]> but hmm
14:35 <[Demo]> might look into changing spirit ac
14:35 <[Demo]> and yeah golden hearts are like 3s in warning or something
14:35 <riker> yeah that's too strong
14:35 <riker> since he makes like 1 per turn
14:36 <riker> and I don't need to fight 4 spirti-level things at once
14:36 <[Demo]> right
14:36 <[Demo]> i wanted to make him interesting
14:36 <[Demo]> and have him have a unique pool of creations
14:36 <[Demo]> but yeah if its too strong (which that is...)
14:37 <[Demo]> whoa whoa whoa
14:37 <riker> ?
14:37 <riker> he made 2 golden hearts in 3 turns for me
14:37 <LarienTelrunya> Lymia: the don suicune armor is an artifact; not a very good one though
14:38 <Lymia> Surprising
14:38 <[Demo]> apparently i just made him a hooloovoo
14:38 <[Demo]> which means he could have made an id juggernaut
14:38 <Lymia> eh
14:38 <Lymia> toss it to a shopkeep
14:39 <riker> no
14:39 <riker> please no
14:39 <LarienTelrunya> yeah the nasty effect part probably makes it a bad idea to actually wear it
14:39 <[Demo]> pushed latest version
14:39 <[Demo]> astaroth is more like a tinker gnome
14:41 <Lymia> ... oh
14:41 <Lymia> intrinsic MR means I can't trigger leveltele traps at all, huh
14:42 <LarienTelrunya> yes, unless you somehow manage to lose or deactivate your MR (which is possible in certain situations but usually not on demand)
14:42 <riker> coool I'll pull that ty demo
14:42 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought
14:43 <riker> seriously tho Demo__ can you fix that include/system.h thing
14:43 <riker> its quite annoying
14:43 <[Demo]> also system.h setup should be friendly with osx now
14:43 <[Demo]> i did
14:43 <riker> ty
14:43 <riker> <3
14:44 <riker> so what's the grease and sensor pack from andre for
14:44 <[Demo]> general swag
14:44 <[Demo]> grease is always nice to get your cloak ready for stepping through tight angles
14:44 <[Demo]> and sensor pack is a useful ass item
14:44 <riker> kk
14:45 <LarienTelrunya> [Demo]: just a thought, but... if ndnh reaches a state where it's relatively save-stable, would you want it to be hosted on the esm server? I can't promise to do it any time soon, but I'n not completely adverse to the idea if you want it to be playable on a public server ;)
14:45 <[Demo]> yeah probably one day
14:45 <riker> can andro drop a lock pick?
14:46 <Lymia> I'm somewhat tempted to try and rebuild Nethack from scratch (... or, well. Translating the mechanics, and leaving the code behind)
14:46 <riker> > A monstrous mind is a toy forever.
14:46 <Lymia> I can't follow all these globals.
14:46 <riker> oddly applicable fortune
14:46 <Pinkbeast> Lymia: I think you may find that is perhaps more work than coming to an understanding of the existing code
14:46 <[Demo]> andro always drops the same shit
14:46 <[Demo]> would be neat actually to have him drop a random andro item
14:47 <[Demo]> ok so berith is the first to drop an artifact actually
14:48 <Lymia> Pinkbeast, you think. :P
14:48 <riker> did you remove dipping rusting
14:48 <riker> or make daggers unrustable
14:49 <[Demo]> no
14:49 <[Demo]> they are broken
14:49 <[Demo]> in dnh
14:49 <riker> k
14:49 <[Demo]> if 3.15.2 fixes it i need it
14:49 <[Demo]> they burn instead of rusting even though they are iron
14:49 <[Demo]> and i dont know why
14:50 <[Demo]> its such a trivial bug I havent looked too far into it
14:50 -!- noty has joined #hardfought
14:50 <LarienTelrunya> [Demo]: I can test in dnhslex ;)
14:51 <riker> ok so balam is ice right
14:51 <riker> how do I make some
14:51 <riker> .2 changes so you can't get it from fountains
14:51 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought
14:51 <[Demo]> uh whats the level called
14:51 <riker> ?
14:51 <riker> it's lvl 6
14:51 <riker> ooh nvm
14:51 <riker> found water :D
14:51 <[Demo]> the one with the cool name
14:51 <riker> medusa?
14:51 <riker> sunless se?
14:52 <riker> I found a river th
14:52 <[Demo]> no vlads first lvl
14:52 <[Demo]> it has a really nice name
14:52 <LarienTelrunya> [Demo]: 7 or so dips, they didn't rust
14:52 <riker> ah
14:52 <riker> windowless tower
14:52 <[Demo]> yeah that
14:52 <[Demo]> thats why im ok with requiring ice at like what, xp lvl 5?
14:53 <[Demo]> damn so its not fixed in 3,15,2
14:53 <riker> hm 
14:53 <riker> I teleported balam somewhere
14:53 <riker> i have no clue where
14:53 <riker> oh well :p
14:53 <[Demo]> anyway ndnh is 3.1.5.1 based so you should be able to get ice from a fountain
14:53 <riker> ah ok
14:53 <[Demo]> you dont need to kill him, just summon
14:54 <riker> and then berith oneshots my pet :(
14:54 <[Demo]> berith is a motherfucker
14:54 <riker> and then me
14:54 <riker> ok
14:54 <riker> sword of blood is OP
14:54 <riker> :(
14:55 <riker> but holy crap dude these are more than hard
14:55 <[Demo]> yeah hes supposed to be a curve bump
14:55 <riker> some of these are one-shotty
14:55 <riker> like make them require prep to kill
14:55 <riker> not just "RUN FAST"
14:55 <[Demo]> yeah they are fast
14:55 <riker> i'm an inc too so this is easy mode
14:55 <[Demo]> yeah inc + mind blast is a crazy strat
14:55 <riker> anyway I'm leaving now
14:55 <riker> I"ll try more later
14:56 <[Demo]> bye, thanks for playing
14:56 <riker> also balam doesn't seem to move
14:56 <riker> dunno if bug
14:56 <riker> he just sits there and gazes
14:56 <riker> but see ya
14:56 -!- riker has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
14:56 <[Demo]> i think chris fucked up monster ai but idk
14:58 <Lymia> Pinkbeast, it's not trivial work, but, a project to put further variants on better ground isn't out there. What I've seen of Nethack's source so far is... at minimum, very repetitive.
14:58 <aosdict> jonadab: [backscroll] To get around this so that I could make xnh confused light summon tame yellow lights, I generated them cancelled. Then they won't attack stuff and explode.
15:00 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] jonadab (Bar Orc Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:10133
15:01 <dtype> Eurovision 2018 talk in #nethack-offtopic
15:03 <[Demo]> whats the proper way to submit a nonbug but likely unintended behavior of the game that should probably be changed to the dt?
15:04 <Lymia> LarienTelrunya, can you explain this dlvl
15:04 <LarienTelrunya> Lymia: it's created by jonadab's level generator script
15:05 <Lymia> and its apparent lack of a >
15:05 <LarienTelrunya> hold on, I'll look at the des file to see where the secret door is
15:06 <[Demo]> i love how jonadab is such an instigator of slexpidity
15:06 <LarienTelrunya> levgn-19 apparently
15:06 <LarienTelrunya> okay: to the east of the eastern )
15:07 <LarienTelrunya> i.e. go to that ), then walk one tile northeast and search for corridors/doors to the east
15:07 <Lymia> also not sure where the heck my pet is
15:07 <Lymia> But that's a different problem :D
15:07 <LarienTelrunya> maybe it ran into the level teleporter
15:08 <Lymia> ... oh, that coulda been it
15:08 <Lymia> this level generator...
15:11 <LarienTelrunya> gotta love jonadab, without him slex wouldn't be the same :)
15:12 <aosdict> user:~/slex$ grep -ir jonadab
15:13 <LarienTelrunya> grepping the slex source code for him probably finds tons of matches
15:13 <jonadab> smh
15:14 <aosdict> the real jonadab would never use SMS shorthand! get 'im!
15:14 <jonadab> Oh, is that where that's from?
15:15 <jonadab> I encountered it on IRC.
15:15 <jonadab> I mean, it was either that or <facepalm>
15:27 <Lymia> all these random poisonous things
15:27 <Lymia> Poison moogles? XD
15:28 <LarienTelrunya> almost all "k" are poisonous to eat
15:28 <Lymia> It's a moogle.
15:29 <Lymia> and wow, you're calling natto poisonous?
15:29 <Lymia> (... accurate)
15:35 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh343] pavelek (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 1137 points, T:1039, killed by a rothe
15:40 <LarienTelrunya> single-edged polearm ♥
15:40 <[Demo]> wow
15:46 -!- S4v|0 has joined #hardfought
15:47 -!- S4v|0 has left #hardfought
15:49 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
15:49 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ
15:57 <aosdict> jonadab: Actually, interestingly, worm teeth are material 0. Not BONE. I recall seeing this before but don't remember why it is that way.
16:00 <aosdict> discovery: you can wish up a dragonhide fedora in grunthack
16:01 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] Lymia (Mah Red Fem Cha), 14336 points, T:3816, killed by a monster (maid)
16:01 <Lymia> maids are scary apparently
16:02 <LarienTelrunya> @le?maid
16:02 <Beholder> maid (@) | Lvl: 11 | Diff: 15 | Spd: 12 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: special | AC: 0 | Attacks: 1d6 weapon physical, 1d6 weapon physical | Alignment: 5 | Flags: genocidable, omnivore, stalker, infravisible
16:02 <[Demo]> whats a bindenhander?
16:02 <LarienTelrunya> slightly weaker two-handed sword
16:03 <[Demo]> whys it so heavy?
16:03 <LarienTelrunya> it's made of pourpoor, which is a material I invented, and which is supposed to be extra heavy iron
16:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh343] pavelek (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 2702 points, T:1451, killed by a dwarf
16:06 <bhaak> is it not Bidenhänder?
16:06 <Lymia> Tinning doesn't fix cannibalism, right?
16:06 <LarienTelrunya> Lymia: nope
16:06 <LarienTelrunya> bhaak: yes, but there's no "ä" :(
16:06 <[Demo]> uh oh
16:06 <[Demo]> what do trap %s do?
16:06 <LarienTelrunya> [Demo]: usually it displays a random rumor, but eventually it transforms into a falling rock trap
16:07 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
16:07 <[Demo]> so harmless?
16:07 <LarienTelrunya> yeah
16:07 <bhaak> LarienTelrunya: yeah but there was a superflous 'n'  :)
16:07 <LarienTelrunya> bhaak: yes, that superfluous 'n' isn't present in-game
16:08 <bhaak> well "Binde" is something completely different, so you can imagine my confusion. although you never know what you would put into SLEX
16:08 <jonadab> aosdict: There was some weird, incorrect argument to the effect that teeth aren't bones.  (Biologically, they are.)
16:08 -!- Tarmunoraway is now known as Tarmunora
16:08 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] Demo (Mon Ang Mal Cha) killed the Raini of Moloch, on T:3430
16:09 <Tarmunora> @riker: the cavbeman quest should be put off for a while, as the Vhromatic Dragon is very dangerous
16:10 <jonadab> Or, at least, they're way more similar to bone than many of the differences between materials that NetHack glosses over.
16:10 <jonadab> Such as iron versus steel.
16:12 <jonadab> Or diamond versus quartz.
16:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Pri Hum Fem Neu), 350 points, T:1625, killed by a coyote, while fainted from lack of food
16:22 <Lymia> How long do nasty traps last anyway
16:25 <jonadab> Depends how fast the effects kill you ;-)
16:33 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] Lymia (Mah Red Mal Cha), 2201 points, T:1013, quit
16:33 <Lymia> ... that wasn't a nasty trap. It gave me unexpected hybrids I didn't notice. :(
16:37 <[Demo]> hmm i dont trust an excercise trap
16:38 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
16:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] k2 (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Croesus, on T:18100
16:46 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Pri Hum Fem Cha) had Ogresmasher bestowed upon her by Susanowo, on T:46050
16:46 <hothraxxa> blah
16:47 <K2> woooo ogresmasher!
16:47 <K2> best - weapon - ever
16:47 <K2> !whereis K2
16:47 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-us] k2 [nh361]: (Val Hum Fem Law) T:17471 Fort Ludios level: 19
16:47 <K2> weee
16:47 <K2> !who
16:47 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-us] Demo [slex] Lymia [slex] krm26 [fh] k2 [nh361] hothraxxa [xnh] 
16:47 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-eu] No current players
16:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] k2 (Val Hum Fem Law) performed her first genocide (disenchanter), on T:18164
16:50 <[Demo]> wtf is a void jumpgate?
16:50 <[Demo]> is this some evil evil thing?
16:50 <[Demo]> why am i playing slex?
16:53 <bhaak> jumpgate into the void?
16:54 <Lymia> !whereis Demo
16:54 <Beholder> Lymia: [hdf-us] Demo [slex]: (Mon Ang Mal Cha) T:3629 The Dungeons of Doom level: 9
16:54 <Beholder> Lymia: [hdf-us] Demo [4k]: (Hea Syl Fem Neu) T:830 The Dungeons of Doom level: 3
16:55 <[Demo]> what
16:55 <[Demo]> why does it think im playing 4k?
16:56 <[Demo]> !whereis Demo
16:56 <Beholder> [Demo]: [hdf-us] Demo is not currently playing on this server.
16:56 <[Demo]> weird
16:56 <[Demo]> had a runaway fourk game or something?
17:01 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
17:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [slex] Demo (Mon Ang Mal Cha) killed Anja, on T:4377
17:15 <LarienTelrunya> [Demo]: void jumpgates are mainly meant for situations where you somehow get stuck in undiggable walls: they will randomly teleport you, even on a no-teleport level
17:17 <[Demo]> why did i get offered one?
17:17 <[Demo]> also whats an umbrella do?
17:17 <LarienTelrunya> it happens randomly, and rarely
17:18 <LarienTelrunya> the umbrella is a lance that does shitty damage
17:18 <[Demo]> whats the tower branch?
17:19 <LarienTelrunya> town branch; it goes up 5 floors and has a town at the top, which may or may not have useful stuff
17:20 <[Demo]> whenever i drop my gold it wont let me and mentions the LRS
17:20 <LarienTelrunya> you have to tell it the exact amount that you want to drop; this is an unfortunate side effect of a bugfix
17:20 <LarienTelrunya> d465$
17:20 <[Demo]> what
17:20 <[Demo]> how even
17:21 <LarienTelrunya> yes
17:21 <[Demo]> what bug?
17:21 <LarienTelrunya> this fixes a bug where you could drop some weird amount of gold and segfault the game on purpose (ask ais523 if he appears, he knows the specifics)
17:22 <[Demo]> does this exist in vanilla?
17:22 <[Demo]> if so, wow
17:22 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
17:22 <bhaak> unlikely
17:22 <LarienTelrunya> it probably exists in 343, since the fix is originally from 360
17:22 <[Demo]> where can i look for the details/this sounds very cool
17:23 <[Demo]> also whats the weird thing where objects get an asterik in their name?
17:24 <LarienTelrunya> that means they're of a specific material, I think * is glass and ! is ether, because those materials can be important to know
17:24 <LarienTelrunya> (you don't want to throw stuff made of glass and you don't want to wear ether equipment)
17:24 <[Demo]> ah
17:24 <LarienTelrunya> https://github.com/SLASHEM-Extended/SLASHEM-Extended/commit/92ba21a106129c69ba5bcd21b1086e9d6d232148
17:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:44539
17:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:44593
17:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Yeenoghu, on T:44802
17:32 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Pri Hum Fem Neu), 398 points, T:1506, killed by a werejackal, while frozen by a trap
17:35 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:45400
17:36 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
17:38 -!- riker has joined #hardfought
17:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:46017
17:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:46018
17:39 <riker> [Demo]: you here?
17:39 <riker> back to acu
17:39 <riker> 2 notes
17:39 <riker> 1: balam doesn't attack you. if you put the faceplate you start with on he can't gaze but he won't move to melee you either
17:40 <riker> 2: holy crap dude fix ACs I had to shoot at balam at least 80 times (I made it to basic and skilled in attack spells shooting at him)
17:40 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:46074
17:41 <[Demo]> ok
17:41 <riker> heyyy I got a vape
17:41 <[Demo]> yeah no i was looking through ACs
17:41 <riker> "strange pipe" right
17:41 <[Demo]> yep
17:42 <riker> do you agree re: AC?
17:42 <[Demo]> yeah
17:42 <hothraxxa> what variant has vapes?
17:43 <riker> not dnethack
17:43 <riker> literally, "not dnethack"
17:43 <riker> demo's variant
17:43 <hothraxxa> what can you vapourize in these strange pipes?
17:44 <riker> potions
17:44 <hothraxxa> not herbs?
17:44 <riker> nope but demo should and that
17:44 <riker> *add
17:44 <riker> [Demo]: any tips for fighitng berith?
17:44 <[Demo]> dont get hit
17:45 <[Demo]> save him for later maybe idk
17:45 <riker> define 'later' tho
17:45 <[Demo]> you need his hat for the quest basically
17:45 <[Demo]> you dont need to kill them to be able to lvl up
17:45 <riker> I need to kill him to progress tho :/
17:45 <[Demo]> just summon
17:45 <riker> well tha'ts not really possible
17:45 <riker> since he's fast
17:45 <riker> he oneshots me >_>
17:45 <[Demo]> yeah i always just toss the hard one off on levels
17:46 <riker> no wards either
17:46 <[Demo]> and then not return
17:46 <[Demo]> advanced tactic
17:46 <[Demo]> .@.<
17:46 <[Demo]> thats you and the stairs up from like idk, lvl 1
17:46 <riker> oooh quicksilver on the floor
17:46 <[Demo]> s@.<
17:46 <[Demo]> the s is the seal
17:46 <riker> no flail skill tho :/
17:46 <[Demo]> so then you summon
17:47 <[Demo]> wait no you wanna be next to the stairs
17:47 <riker> murder for lawful is just -2 luck and no tele rigth
17:47 <[Demo]> just summon and step onto stairs and they dont get to move
17:47 <[Demo]> something like that
17:47 <[Demo]> shouldnt affect extrinsic
17:47 <riker> kk
17:48 <[Demo]> you could summon a speed 500 monster and get off the level before it can move
17:48 <[Demo]> cause it cant move for that first turn
17:49 <[Demo]> pushed AC nerf for a lot of spirits, no idea how save compat will do with it
17:49 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
17:50 <riker> ok
17:50 <riker> just summoned berith we good
17:50 <riker> how bad is buer
17:50 <riker> worse than berith?
17:51 <riker> es
17:51 <riker> yes
17:51 <riker> am dead now
17:51 <riker> ok yeah [Demo] these guys need some serious AC nerfs
17:51 <riker> it's impossible to kill them if only 1/3 of the shots hit
17:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:46587
17:52 <riker> how much did you nerf [Demo] ?
17:52 <[Demo]> turning -4s into 4s
17:53 <[Demo]> berith is supposed to be extra extra hard
17:53 <[Demo]> sort of
17:53 <riker> ok
17:53 <riker> harder than buer?
17:53 <riker> also what is his hat
17:53 <[Demo]> buer used to be really fucking bad
17:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:46617
17:53 <[Demo]> buer used to  cast clerical hard and cast fucking earthquake
17:53 <riker> bruh
17:53 <[Demo]> it was nuts
17:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:46630
17:54 <[Demo]> berith's hat drips with blood
17:54 <riker> which does what
17:54 <[Demo]> and tentacles cannot stay on it
17:54 <riker> ah
17:54 <[Demo]> so you cannot suck his mind
17:54 <riker> so like better plasteel/crystal
17:54 <[Demo]> but it is very useful on the quest
17:54 <riker> any other things?
17:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:46643
17:54 <[Demo]> he has platemail and a long sword
17:55 <[Demo]> incase u want excal or something
17:55 <riker> ah
17:55 <[Demo]> buer has an epic aols
17:55 <riker> ooh
17:55 <riker> wait he's not wearing it right
17:55 <riker> >_>
17:55 <[Demo]> wearing one
17:55 <riker> and is it just a normal "ols
17:55 <riker> ...
17:55 <[Demo]> not wearing the other
17:55 <[Demo]> the other one is an artifact
17:55 <riker> ...
17:55 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:46660
17:55 <riker> ah
17:55 <riker> which does what
17:55 <[Demo]> grants regeneration and sustain ability
17:56 <riker> is it used up when you die
17:56 <[Demo]> yes
17:56 <riker> kk
17:56 <[Demo]> anyway i usually dump berith off on like dlvl1
17:56 <riker> is amon's ac tweaked?
17:56 <[Demo]> no/fuck i missed it
17:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:46688
17:57 <riker> plz fix
17:57 <[Demo]> wait i might not have
17:57 <riker> it's -2
17:58 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:46716
17:58 <riker> also you should make ahazu drop ?oFD if you're an inc
17:58 <[Demo]> inc doesnt need any help :P
17:58 <[Demo]> ok pushed commits
17:58 <riker> what's it change to
17:58 -!- Pavel has joined #hardfought
17:58 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:46737
17:59 <[Demo]> amon went from like 0 to 7
17:59 <riker> andre could use a buff btw
17:59 <Pavel> !who
17:59 <Beholder> Pavel: [hdf-us] Lymia [slex] krm26 [fh] hypnotist [nh361] k2 [nh361] ranlhach2 [un] hothraxxa [xnh] 
17:59 <Beholder> Pavel: [hdf-eu] No current players
17:59 <riker> 2d4 claw?
17:59 <Pavel> !whereis k2
17:59 <Beholder> Pavel: [hdf-us] k2 [nh361]: (Val Hum Fem Law) T:18861 The Dungeons of Doom level: 13
17:59 <riker> just let the brain golem tank
17:59 <Pavel> Oh hey nh361 has whereis now
17:59 <[Demo]> uhh im not sure what happened to andrealphus's wisdom draining gaze
17:59 <Pavel> !whereis hothraxxa 
17:59 <Beholder> Pavel: [hdf-us] hothraxxa [xnh]: No details available
17:59 <[Demo]> andre had that
17:59 <[Demo]> and it was just dumb
17:59 <Pavel> Xnh doesn't yet though
18:00 <[Demo]> it was a do you know to put on your ebon pane or not test
18:00 <riker> uh
18:00 <riker> lol
18:00 <riker> yeah Pavel k2 added it
18:01 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 1201714 points, T:46786, killed by an Angel of Moloch (with the Amulet)
18:01 <Pavel> K2: Can we also get whereis for xnh
18:02 <[Demo]> damn
18:02 -!- Pavel has quit [Disconnected by services]
18:02 -!- PavelB has joined #hardfought
18:03 <PavelB> > You were killed by NickServ ((GHOST command used by Pahan!~Pahan@203.56.154.117))
18:03 <PavelB> > irc: disconnected from server
18:03 <PavelB> Wat?
18:04 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed]
18:05 <FIQ> someone ghosted dyou
18:05 <PavelB> What does that mean
18:05 <FIQ> someone else has claimed the nick Pavel on this server as registered
18:06 <PavelB> I see.
18:07 <PavelB> ಠ_ಠ
18:07 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
18:12 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
18:13 <K2> PavelB you'd have to ask aosdict about adding whereis to xnethack
18:14 <riker> [Demo]: so are the spirits magic resistant by default
18:14 <PavelB> Ah
18:14 <riker> i.e. immune to magic misisle or smth
18:14 <riker> since wand of poly seems to do nothign sadly
18:16 <PavelB> aosdict: Please add whereis to xnh
18:16 <[Demo]> most of them dont have much MR
18:16 <[Demo]> which ones have you tried polying?
18:17 <riker> berith
18:17 <riker> 10 MR
18:17 <riker> doesn't seem to work tho
18:17 <[Demo]> oh wait they are unique
18:17 <riker> maybe he has a cloak of MR or smth idk
18:17 <riker> ah ok
18:17 <[Demo]> so ofc it doesnt work
18:17 <riker> I frogot
18:17 <riker> :/
18:17 <[Demo]> yeah i need to opt these guys out of livelog
18:18 * aosdict is feeling harried
18:20 <[Demo]> you can actually tame a few of them
18:20 <riker> berith? :D
18:20 <[Demo]> nope
18:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] BunkMuffin (mighty) (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 43145 points, T:4118, petrified by a chickatrice, while unable to move due to turning to stone
18:20 -!- PavelB has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1]
18:20 <riker> which ones?
18:21 <[Demo]> Huginn, muninn, some other/i forgot
18:21 -!- PavelB has joined #hardfought
18:21 <[Demo]> oh, jack
18:21 <riker> are those 2 spirits
18:21 <[Demo]> naberius
18:21 <[Demo]> thats four
18:21 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
18:22 <[Demo]> huginn and muninn are seperate spirits
18:22 <[Demo]> well its a two for one combo
18:22 <nooodle> that petrification death is reported kind of awkwardly
18:22 <PavelB> Why is it that IRC is telling me the nickname "Pavel" is in use, but there doesn't seem to be anyone named "Pavel" in the list of users in this channel.
18:22 <riker> hm ok
18:22 <PavelB> (I don't use IRC much)
18:22 <riker> PavelB: since tehre's somebody using it on freenode
18:22 <riker> the server
18:22 <riker> not just this channel
18:22 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
18:22 <PavelB> Welp
18:23 <riker> BERITH DIED
18:23 <riker> is that just a norma helmet btw
18:23 <[Demo]> im still not sure why you are bothering to fight him so early
18:23 <[Demo]> yes
18:23 <riker> since i want him to die
18:24 <riker> badly
18:24 <[Demo]> howd you kill him?
18:24 <riker> death ray :p
18:24 <[Demo]> works
18:24 <riker> ikr
18:24 <riker> would use it on buer but it's empty
18:24 <riker> (I polypiled for it)
18:24 <[Demo]> damn
18:25 <[Demo]> buer youd want that double bounce
18:25 <PavelB> I finally got my irc client to let me scroll through the list of connected users
18:25 <riker> but i will feel happy with berith ded
18:25 <[Demo]> to take out that aols
18:25 <riker> that's true actually
18:25 <riker> I migth try to recharge it idk
18:25 <PavelB> I've been trying on and off for a couple weeks
18:25 <[Demo]> I havent actually fought nerfed buer
18:25 <[Demo]> cleric buer was a motherfucker
18:30 <riker> [Demo]: main issue with acu right now is poor hp growth
18:30 <riker> 40 hp to fight buer isn't much
18:30 <riker> esp. since he does 6d4
18:31 <[Demo]> yeah ive thought about buffing the shit out of hp growth
18:31 <riker> I'd either do that or nerf the spirits
18:31 <riker> TBH i'd say nerf the spirits
18:31 <riker> since that doens't unbalance the role vs normal monsters
18:31 <[Demo]> oh i want it to not balance with the dungeon
18:31 <[Demo]> i want the dungeon to be easy as fuck
18:31 <riker> oh ok taht's totally fine then
18:31 <riker> but then yeah nerf the _shit_ out of it
18:31 <riker> like, +10 hp per level
18:31 <riker> (in addition to normal hp growth
18:31 <riker> so I have like 110 at lvl 7
18:32 <[Demo]> the only reason i havent played with it is cause idk how it works
18:32 <riker> I can fix that
18:32 <[Demo]> just gonna use trial and error
18:32 <riker> also minor bug
18:33 <riker> if you kill the spirit it doesn't always update your level
18:33 <riker> like, if you're above lvl 5 when you kill astaroth it won't register as 6 always
18:33 <riker> you need to kill something else to do that
18:33 <[Demo]> do you have enough xp?
18:33 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
18:33 <riker> er, when you summon it
18:33 <[Demo]> oh yeah
18:33 <[Demo]> yeah
18:33 <[Demo]> that was on the yeah i should fix that table
18:33 <[Demo]> and i never got to it
18:34 <riker> it's not a big issue
18:34 <riker> since it does update when you kill the spirit
18:34 <riker> but it's something idk
18:34 <[Demo]> yeah no i meant to get back to that but forgot
18:35 <[Demo]> ill add it to the todo list an get to it one day
18:35 <[Demo]> ok cool its right next to giving eden reflection
18:35 <[Demo]> something i have no idea how to do
18:36 <riker> spawn him with an "ols?
18:36 <riker> er
18:36 <riker> "oR
18:36 <[Demo]> no i mean innate
18:36 <[Demo]> cant figure out how silver dragons have reflection
18:38 <riker> ah
18:40 <riker> ok so I have a partial solution to the hp thing
18:40 <riker> but
18:40 <riker> yeah nvm full solution
18:40 <riker> do you want a pr
18:40 <[Demo]> no i dont accept prs unless they are really good and i cant get any alternative
18:40 <[Demo]> im working on the hp thing rn
18:40 <riker> kk
18:41 <[Demo]> i still dont know what lower vs higher means
18:41 <riker> just add this
18:41 <riker> 	if(Role_if(PM_ANACHRONOUNBINDER)) hp += 10;
18:41 <[Demo]> no thats so ghetto
18:41 <riker> to newhp in attrib.c
18:41 <riker> how else do you do it
18:41 <[Demo]> theres a built in way to control role hp
18:41 <[Demo]> in role.c when defining the role
18:41 <[Demo]> i just dont know what the fuck the format is
18:42 <riker> struct RoleAdvance according to you.h
18:43 -!- PavelB has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
18:49 <riker> found the reflection thing Demo
18:49 <riker> looks like it's just a hard-coded list of monsters in muse.c
18:49 <riker> add it to PM_SILVER_DRAGON and PM_CHROMATIC_DRAGON
18:50 <[Demo]> its a myth
18:51 <[Demo]> not sure why my greps never found PM_SILVER_DRAGON there
18:52 <riker> did you figure out the format in role.c?
18:52 <[Demo]> enougj
18:52 <[Demo]> 160 hp with 18 con at lvl 10
18:53 <riker> that's lame
18:53 <riker> what about 160 hp with 13 con at level 9
18:53 <[Demo]> nope
18:53 <[Demo]> this feels like too much
18:54 <[Demo]> 81 at xp lvl 6  with 15 con
18:54 <riker> ehhhh
18:54 <[Demo]> fuck it ill push it out cause at this point im using the trial and error balancing
18:54 <riker> that's pretty good i guess
18:57 <[Demo]> yeah ok latest version pushed out with hella hp
18:57 <riker> already pulled :p
18:59 -!- K2 changed the topic on #hardfought to: Welcome to Hardfought - https://www.hardfought.org/ - public irc logs available on website ¤ Public NetHack server - ssh nethack@hardfought.org or nethack@eu.hardfought.org ¤ NetHack 3.6.1-hdf version is now live - https://redd.it/8izmva
19:00 <[Demo]> oh wow my email client actually sends notifications
19:10 <K2> https://redd.it/8izmva
19:10 <K2> \o/
19:10 <[Demo]> what
19:11 <hothraxxa> yay k2
19:11 <[Demo]> nice
19:11 <aosdict> oooooh
19:12 * aosdict steals everything
19:12 <K2> heh.... even e word conduct? :)
19:13 <aosdict> nah
19:13 <hothraxxa> aosdict: please steal inventory weights from somewhere kthanksbye
19:14 <hothraxxa> esp since you messed with them
19:22 <rld> <@Tone> Nice
19:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Pri Hum Fem Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:47398
19:23 <K2> dinner time
19:24 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
19:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 53634 points, T:17163, killed by an air elemental
19:34 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:37 -!- Adeon has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
19:41 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] Eleven (Pri Hum Fem Neu), 608 points, T:2174, killed by a gnome king
19:52 <rld> <@Pavel> :O 3.6.1 Curses
19:53 <rld> <@Pavel> Now I just need the patch and a curses xnethackrc
19:54 <rld> <@Pavel> I wonder if the patch would be completely compatible...
19:55 <[Demo]> any variants have bareback riding?
19:58 -!- riker has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Pri Hum Fem Cha) killed Baalzebub, on T:48402
20:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Flan99 (Ana Inc Fem Neu), 15781 points, T:3065, killed by a dwarf, while reading a book
20:11 <aosdict> hothraxxa: Any NH3 variants have that?
20:14 <hothraxxa> dynahack
20:14 -!- riker has joined #hardfought
20:15 <[Demo]> is dyna really an nh3 variant?
20:15 <[Demo]> its too nitro
20:15 <aosdict> hothraxxa: ok, a non-nitrohack-based nh3 variant
20:15 <hothraxxa> i don't recall another
20:18 <hothraxxa> in the first four levels of gehennom, i have encountered five different monsters with wands of digging that have escaped through holes
20:18 <hothraxxa> including asmodeus
20:18 <aosdict> how many of them were minotaurs
20:18 -!- riker has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20:19 <hothraxxa> minotaurs never do ime
20:19 <hothraxxa> a vampire lord, an incubus, a captain, smo, and someone else i forget
20:20 <hothraxxa> s/smo/asmo
20:20 <aosdict> @le?smo
20:20 <Beholder> smo ~2~ imp (i) | Lvl: 3 | Diff: 4 | Spd: 12 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 20 | Generates: special | AC: 2 | Attacks: 1d4 claw physical | Alignment: -7 | Flags: genocidable, regenerates, stalker, infravisible
20:20 <hothraxxa> oh and a couple of other monsters have jumped into the holes
20:21 <hothraxxa> aosdict, what are these rooms with all the engravings in blood
20:21 <hothraxxa> and a gazillion leashes
20:21 <aosdict> slaughterhouse
20:21 <hothraxxa> and corpses. this one has two cockatrice corpses
20:21 <aosdict> lucky you!
20:21 <hothraxxa> ahhh
20:22 <hothraxxa> yes. asmo is fucked now
20:22 <hothraxxa> are they aged?
20:22 <aosdict> recurrence of https://nhqdb.alt.org/?2335 it seems
20:22 <aosdict> they're not specially aged, no.
20:22 <hothraxxa> cool
20:23 <aosdict> the corpses are completely random, so 2 trices is just luck
20:23 <hothraxxa> yeah the last one had a horse corpse and something else
20:24 <aosdict> if(u.uname == "hothraxxa") mongets(PM_ASMODEUS, WAN_DIGGING); <-- totally added to xnethack
20:25 <hothraxxa> grrr
20:34 -!- riker has joined #hardfought
20:37 <hothraxxa> r - an uncursed cockatrice corpse (weapon in hand).  Asmodeus zaps a wand of digging!  Asmodeus has made a hole in the floor.--More--
20:38 <hothraxxa> *facepalm*
20:41 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20:43 <hothraxxa> You enter a hideous den!
20:44 <jonadab> [Demo]: NH4 in general doesn't really know when you are NOT playing.  NH3 knows you are not currently playing if you have a save file, and you are playing if you have level files.  But with NH4 you _always_ have a save file, and the levels are all in it.  Also, unlike NH3, NH4 allows you to have multiple windows connected to your game at the same time, if you want.  
20:44 <jonadab> So the question of whether you are currently playing or not is complicated.
20:45 <[Demo]> oh
20:45 <[Demo]> thanks
20:47 -!- riker has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20:58 <hothraxxa> You hit Asmodeus!  Asmodeus zaps a wand of digging!  Asmodeus has made a hole in the floor.  Asmodeus dives through...
20:58 <hothraxxa> now two or three others will dive in
20:58 -!- PavelB has joined #hardfought
21:00 <PavelB> !who
21:00 <Beholder> PavelB: [hdf-us] ranlhach2 [un] hothraxxa [xnh] 
21:00 <Beholder> PavelB: [hdf-eu] No current players
21:03 -!- riker has joined #hardfought
21:04 -!- greqrg_ has joined #hardfought
21:05 <hothraxxa> You kill Asmodeus!  But wait...  Asmodeus' medallion begins to glow!  Asmodeus looks much better!  The medallion crumbles to dust!
21:05 <hothraxxa> *facepalm*
21:05 -!- PavelB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:05 <aosdict> man you are really not catching a break here
21:05 <hothraxxa> we've arrived at orcus town
21:06 -!- PavelB has joined #hardfought
21:06 <hothraxxa> at least he can't dig anymore
21:06 <hothraxxa> waiting for demogorgon
21:07 -!- riker has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
21:08 -!- greqrg has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
21:08 <hothraxxa> he's brought in two barbed devils and a horned devil so far
21:08 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
21:08 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Pri Hum Fem Cha) killed Asmodeus, on T:49260
21:09 <hothraxxa> You hit the vampire lord!  The vampire lord zaps a wand of digging!  The vampire lord has made a hole in the floor.--More--
21:09 <hothraxxa> arrrrrrrrrgh
21:09 <PavelB> :D
21:10 <PavelB> I Wonder what the frequency on those wands are.
21:11 <hothraxxa> it's just this game. i've been through xnh gehennom a few times and this is not normal
21:12 <hothraxxa> i've also had three monsters drink cursed gain level and a couple read cursed teleportation
21:12 <rld> <@Tone> pavelB It's based on monster level
21:13 <rld> <@Tone> Vampire Lord would be 14/50 * 1/11 I think
21:13 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
21:13 <rld> <@Tone> or around 2.5%
21:13 <PavelB> Maybe there's a hidden option that makes monsters have a super high chance of dig wand every thousandth run :P
21:14 <rld> <@Tone> Wow is that math right?  That actually feels like a high chance
21:14 <rld> <@Tone> I guess it feels lower because you don't see a ton of eligible monsters
21:14 <rld> <@Tone> but if you've ever been to a leprechaun hall, that definitely feels accurate
21:15 <Grasshopper> which is why it is best to kill leppys with stealth and one-shots if possible
21:15 <Grasshopper> so they don't use such items
21:17 <PavelB> Does stinking cloud deal AOE damage? I've only ever gotten a scroll of it when read-iding and never have anything to use it on.
21:18 <rld> <@Tone> It has an AOE effect, yes
21:19 <Grasshopper> PavelB, it is quite good in the right circumstances
21:19 <PavelB> I just don't know what that effect is
21:19 <Grasshopper> it is on the wiki
21:20 <Grasshopper> important to remember: you can't place it more than 5 squares away, and the target must be lit
21:20 <Grasshopper> otherwise it won't work right
21:20 <Grasshopper> blessed stinking cloud is much better
21:20 <PavelB> !help
21:20 <Beholder> PavelB: https://www.hardfought.org/nethack
21:21 <Grasshopper> I frequently use stinking cloud for Moloch's Sanctum (it takes down the priests nicely)
21:21 <PavelB> Actually I wanted a list of commands, Beholder.
21:21 <Grasshopper> and sometimes for the castle
21:22 <PavelB> Oh, they're at the bottom of the page
21:22 <Grasshopper> https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Scroll_of_stinking_cloud
21:24 <Lymia> Stinking Cloud is for killing shopkeeprs.
21:24 <Lymia> :D
21:24 -!- PavelB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:24 -!- PavelB has joined #hardfought
21:25 <PavelB> It would be cool if Beholder could give the ingame help for specified objects.
21:27 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
21:30 -!- PavelB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:31 -!- PavelB has joined #hardfought
21:31 <PavelB> My IRC client is disconnecting randomly ;-;
21:32 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
21:32 <[Demo]> at least urs isn't a ghetto nodejs script with a bunch of bloated libraries
21:33 <PavelB> Why would you use something like that
21:37 <[Demo]> flexibility
21:42 -!- PavelB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:45 -!- Pavel_ has joined #hardfought
21:45 -!- Pavel_ is now known as PavelB
21:49 <PavelB> !who
21:49 <Beholder> PavelB: [hdf-us] Tangles [nh361] ranlhach2 [un] 
21:49 <Beholder> PavelB: [hdf-eu] No current players
21:51 <aosdict> Grasshopper: in 3.6.1, you can get it to show you the valid stinking cloud locations, which is nice.
21:51 <PavelB> Oh, how?
21:52 <aosdict> Going by the in-game stinking cloud help (pressing ?), you press $ when prompted to place the cursor where you want the cloud.
21:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 152283 points, T:37073, killed by One-eyed Sam
21:57 -!- Tariru has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:04 <Grasshopper> aosdict, thanksI never knew that
22:05 -!- tacco| has quit []
22:14 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
22:26 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
22:30 <K2> !who
22:30 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-us] k2 [nh361] 
22:30 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-eu] Katakota [nh361] 
22:43 <Tangles> !who
22:43 <Beholder> Tangles: [hdf-us] Tangles [nh361] k2 [nh361] 
22:43 <Beholder> Tangles: [hdf-eu] No current players
22:43 <K2> o/
22:43 <Tangles> oh right, I am there :)
22:43 <Tangles> Hi K2
22:43 <K2> hiya
22:46 <Tangles> So it turns out I had an old 3.6.1 vanilla save, so now I have to play through that like a pleb, before I can use all the nice new stuff!
22:46 <Tangles> I would #quit, but it's actually not going too badly.
22:48 <K2> good thing
22:48 <K2> my very first test game with 361-hdf was supposed to be just that, but i had found a 0:3 wand of wishing on dlvl 2
22:49 <aosdict> Tangles: I am currently in the process of stealing your stuff and may have some questions later
22:49 <K2> so here we are at lord suturs place
22:49 <aosdict> K2: so this is your ultimate move to expand the userbase of hdf, right? ;)
22:50 <aosdict> effectively make "361-hdf" the new 343-nao
22:50 <K2> aosdict: you should work in e word conduct with your 'unfairly scare monster' conduct, like how the game tracks wishes overall and just wishes for artifacts
22:50 <K2> aosdict: not really, no
22:51 <Tangles> K2: well it's not quite going _that_ well :P
22:51 <K2> if it were just the small community here who played on hardfought, i'd be just fine with that
22:51 <K2> actually, i'd love to see NAO incorporate what we've done
22:51 <rld> <@rikersan> demo you here
22:51 <K2> dtype ^^
22:52 <dtype> K2: heh yeah I see it
22:52 <aosdict> I am opposed to E word conduct philosophically, especially with how strong scare monster is in 3.6.
22:52 <rld> <@rikersan> is demo here
22:52 <aosdict> K2: the main obstacle on nao is convincing paxed to have a non-vanilla build
22:52 <K2> aosdict I dont think you fully grasp how big a deal elbereth use is and whether you can ascend without using it or not
22:53 <K2> even with it being nerfed with 3.6.x
22:53 <aosdict> @rikersan [Demo] is present in the channel at least
22:53 <K2> its still a freebee get out of jail free card from turn 1
22:54 <K2> aosdict: concerning paxed - 343-nao is anything BUT a vanilla build
22:54 <K2> i dont think thats the issue
22:54 <aosdict> maybe I'll put on my Evil Devteam mask and interpret this as "oh you want me to remove Elbereth entirely"
22:54 <K2> aosdict: even better
22:55 <K2> what i want to do with grunthack, is make so the hero cant use elbereth until they've actually discovered the word in game
22:55 <aosdict> K2: Yeah, but after 3.6.0's release, paxed was very stringent about not patching 3.6.0 on NAO and keeping it as its vanilla form. same with 3.6.1-dev.
22:55 * K2 shrugs
22:55 <aosdict> K2: I haven't seen anyone define a balanced mechanism for discovering it in game yet...
22:56 <dtype> K2: can figure out stable branch stuff. the reality is that nao will have some critical mass for good reason.
22:56 <K2> if NAO wants to use what we've made, great - its free for the taking. if not, thats fine too
22:56 <dtype> the 343-nao stuff was a weird necessity
22:56 <K2> dtype: i can understand that
22:56 <K2> much larger playerbase, etc
22:57 <K2> and NAO is THE place to play nethack after all
22:57 <dtype> meh, tbh some value in boring stability
22:57 <aosdict> Tangles: I just added the patch, built, started a game, and got "Can't open whereis/wizard.whereis for output.  No whereis file created." Any reason this might be happening?
22:57 <Tangles> K2: 3.4.3-nao was developed 100% before paxed was on the devteam. Things are different now.... Anyway, nao will do their thing, we'll do ours, and all will be good :)
22:57 <dtype> although 343-nao was boring stability
22:57 <dtype> K2: would love to figure out a way where we can get proper traffic to other folks
22:57 <K2> aosdict: did you create a whereis folder under var?
22:58 <aosdict> ah no
22:58 <Tangles> aosdict: That will be a path definition or a permissions issue.
22:58 <aosdict> this should then be added in the makefile or something rather than install_to_chroot.sh
22:58 <aosdict> (for xnh that is)
22:59 <Tangles> there might be something missing in the 'make install' section or whatever install script you're using
22:59 <K2> Tangles: I didnt realize that, I thought paxed was always on devteam
22:59 <dtype> K2: heh, no
22:59 <dtype> paxed was new a couple years ago
22:59 <dtype>  but has been co-admin on nao for a decade
22:59 <K2> Tangles, yeah we didnt add anything in the makefile for a whereis folder to be created
22:59 <dtype> and owner of patch database, etc
23:00 <K2> ah
23:01 <dtype> fwiw, one of the reasons nao doesn't stray from vanilla is that I don't feel we need to own *all* nh related games
23:02 <dtype> i mean, we specifically do vanilla, partly for paxed vision, partly because i think we do a good game there, and I don't think we need to try to spread out. is one of the thing that leaves room for great servers that do other variants.
23:03 <K2> makes sense
23:03 <K2> nao IS nethack official online
23:03 <dtype> so question will be whether there needs to be a 3.6.1-server branch
23:03 <dtype> which was really what 343nao was
23:03 <K2> right
23:03 <dtype> i mean, 343 had some severe flaws
23:04 <dtype> vanilla 343 was messed up in some ways. heh
23:04 <K2> 3.6 branch seems pretty solid so far
23:04 <aosdict> K2: need to work on that second word
23:04 <aosdict> nethack authoritative online? hmm
23:04 <dtype> K2:  I mean, happy to link some other servers on front page if useful. Although I think right now we link the wiki servers page for that purpose
23:05 <K2> official
23:05 <K2> dtype yeah thats fine
23:05 <dtype> you'll notice that I've never in history tried to tilt wiki on servers
23:06 <K2> gah that reminds me
23:06 <K2> on hardfought nethack page, the helpful links section is still blank
23:06 <dtype> aosdict: heh, not official. Although the steadfast vanilla thing, along with being around since 2001, does give us at least a *bit* of credibility. ;)
23:06 <dtype> but no, not official
23:07 <K2> it is in all but name essentially
23:07 <aosdict> dtype: just kidding around, would be great for NAO to be an abbreviation that makes sense
23:07 <aosdict> it's not called NOO ;)
23:07 <K2> MOO
23:07 <dtype> although I think we got a "shout out" in 3.6.0 source, much to some consternation on style
23:07 <aosdict> MetHack?
23:07 <dtype> aosdict: the reality is that it isn't NAO. is just alt.org
23:07 <K2> hmm i need to update the nethack page anyways, need to add splicehack
23:08 <dtype> there is no nethack.alt.org
23:08 <K2> and after this 361 game, i need to really dive into that variant
23:08 <dtype> that's just a redirect
23:08 <aosdict> anyway, agree with K2 that it's de facto the official nethack server
23:08 <dtype> K2: I still plan to rewrite things in python soon
23:08 <dtype> maybe we finally figure out how to do a server network
23:08 <K2> neat
23:08 <aosdict> it hosts the wiki, nethack.org, qdb, is the largest public server, is the only vanilla server run by a devteam member...
23:09 <dtype> aosdict: the latter part was backwards cause/effecxt
23:09 <aosdict> sure but still
23:10 <dtype> i'm not on devteam. :)
23:10 <aosdict> sure but still
23:10 <dtype> at this point don't care to be. I don't actually do nethack development. heh
23:11 <dtype> aosdict: and you're a wiki admin
23:11 <aosdict> not sure what your point is
23:11 <dtype> i mean, there are only like technically 8 or something
23:12 <dtype> community is small
23:12 <dtype> well, of the major contributors
23:13 <dtype> K2: anyway let's sync up as I do some stuff this summer on how we can expand server community
23:14 <dtype> but a 361 minor fork probably isn't going to happen in the very near future, unless paxed agrees
23:14 <K2> dtype sounds good
23:15 <dtype> not that I don't agree. I really want the livelog stuff
23:15 <dtype> gonna pressure him on it, see if we can reach a consensus 
23:15 <K2> and no worries. if paxed wants to keep it 'pure' its all good. you guys should cater to what the majority of the NAO community want to see
23:16 <aosdict> hm, majority of the NAO community probably would like to have curses available
23:16 <dtype> meh, the goal was *always* vanilla. 343 was just so broken that it became infeasible, and slowly some quality of life stuff became inevitable too
23:16 <K2> there. i now have links in the 'helpful links section. finally lol
23:17 <dtype> things like having savegames compatible for years is sadly high on my list
23:17 <dtype> YEARS
23:17 <dtype> have you seen the bitching at 343 saves going away with 6 weeks notice?
23:18 <K2> no
23:18 <dtype> well, 6 weeks + 18 months of 360 being out
23:18 <K2> you have what sounds like some diehard 343 fans
23:18 <aosdict> are you actually getting angry emails over it
23:19 <dtype> mild
23:19 <aosdict> I mean, possibly you could give them the saves if they ask for it, after this month is over. Since it'll never be counted on a server.
23:19 <K2> or transfer the saves to hdf
23:19 <PavelB> Curses is like the best thing ever
23:19 <K2> and/or ascension.run
23:20 <K2> deepy said they are keeping 343 up also
23:20 <dtype> yeah, was going to give folks saves probably manually
23:20 <PavelB> !help
23:20 <Beholder> PavelB: https://www.hardfought.org/nethack
23:20 <dtype> could transfer to hdf or asc
23:20 <dtype> K2: you're free to saves dir for 343 once we kill it. heh
23:21 <dtype> if you can figure out a way for folks to resume
23:21 <dtype> user mapping only real question
23:21 <aosdict> Tangles: How would you like to be attributed in a commit message?
23:22 <K2> aosdict you should. i make a point to if i add something that came from someone/somewhere else
23:23 <aosdict> K2: "How would you", not "Would you"
23:23 <Tangles> aosdict: I don't really have a preference.
23:23 <K2> 'how would you' is usually taken as 'would you' but whatever ;)
23:25 <Tangles> K2: aosdict is asking how the attribution should be written.
23:25 <aosdict> So Tangles is ok then?
23:25 <K2> ok
23:27 <K2> msgtype=alert is like the best thing ever
23:27 <K2> kinda scratching my head as to why we never thought to do something like this before
23:27 <dtype> make sure is in bug/patch submission
23:27 <K2> AND it works in normal tty mode
23:27 <dtype> team is big on qol changes these days (paxed pushes a lot)
23:28 <dtype> i'm sure bhaak does too
23:28 <dtype> bhaak
23:28 <dtype> bhaak
23:28 <K2> say it one more time and he'll appear
23:28 <Tangles> BHAAK!!!
23:28 <Tangles> lol
23:28 <aosdict> if you say his name three times -- yeah
23:28 <K2> hehehhe
23:30 <K2> !whereis k2
23:30 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-us] k2 [nh361]: (Val Hum Fem Law) T:20111 The Quest level: 19
23:30 <Beholder> K2: [hdf-eu] k2 [nh361]: (Val Hum Fem Law) T:1 The Dungeons of Doom level: 1
23:30 <K2> hmm
23:30 <K2> another thing... unlink in dgl doesnt always work
23:30 <K2> i am not on the eu server currently ;)
23:31 <dtype> i keep meaning to do an eu server, but have never made one work to what I wanted
23:31 <dtype> i like your way, k2
23:33 <K2> so far its worked well
23:33 <K2> i'm still kicking around the idea of a permanent AU server
23:33 <K2> Tangles deserves a lag free playing space
23:34 <PavelB> I already get like a solid 3/4 sec delay on keystrokes, and I live in Seattle
23:34 <PavelB> Being in Australia must suck
23:34 <dtype> shouldn't be 3/4 second
23:34 <PavelB> (3/4 is three quarters, not 3 or 4)
23:35 <dtype> Adeon asecnded the fastest game in history from California, on NAO in Virginia, on maybe 70-80ms latency
23:35 <dtype> so I find it hard to make excuses. :)
23:36 <K2> i can get sub 100ms pings to the eu server from here
23:36 <Tangles> PavelB: I get 200-300ms pings from here to hdf-us. You should be doing better than that.
23:36 <K2> when we had the AU instance up for the tribute tourney, it was around 250-300ms
23:36 <aosdict> K2: pushed some obj materials stuff and whereis
23:36 <K2> awesome
23:36 <PavelB> Tangles: 
23:37 <PavelB> ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
23:37 <aosdict> you should not need to edit install-to-chroot, I changed Makefile.top to make that folder
23:37 <K2> ok
23:37 <PavelB> I'm so used to enter being "Autocomplete username"
23:37 <PavelB> Anyway
23:37 <K2> lemme kill lord surtu here and then i'll update the hdf servers
23:37 <K2> surtur
23:37 <PavelB> Yeah, I get a lot of lag from here
23:37 <Tangles> PavelB: There were some issues with curses in other variants issuing multiple redraws per turn (particularly in grunhack due to all the light/dark stuff), but that should mostly be resolved now.
23:38 <K2> PavelB run a traceroute to hardfought.org
23:38 <K2> can help ID where the problem lies
23:38 <Tangles> but please let me know if curses on 3.6.1 seems laggier than tty.  There might be more to fix.
23:39 <K2> Tangles: for me, its been smooooth
23:39 <PavelB> The time is only 107ms. I'm not sure where all the lag is coming from.
23:39 <aosdict> alright, I thought I had more of these to steal, but I actually already have livelog and extrainfo
23:39 <Tangles> but yes this all depends on whether it's your 'ping' time that's slow, or if it's just sluggish in-game performance.
23:39 <PavelB> I played Counterstrike earlier today with 107ms ping
23:40 <PavelB> It was less unpleasant than nethack on hardfought 
23:40 <K2> hm
23:40 <K2> would like to see a traceroute
23:40 <Tangles> PavelB: which variant are you seeing the lag in?
23:40 <PavelB> All of them
23:41 <dtype> PavelB: so check nao
23:41 <dtype> is in same geographic location as hdf
23:41 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:41 <dtype> *should* be the same
23:41 <PavelB> Actually, I just checked a server that's in Portland, and I'm getting the same lag over ssh.
23:41 <aosdict> isn't nao in virginia?
23:41 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought
23:41 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ
23:41 <K2> it is
23:41 <dtype> aosdict: yeah, but east coast US should be similar
23:42 <dtype> within 20ms
23:44 <dtype> K2: nao is 2 days away from one year of no interrupted games. ;)
23:45 <K2> hah awesome
23:45 <PavelB> It's working fine now. IDK why, but hey, won't complain.
23:46 <PavelB> Still slower than playing locally, but basically ok.
23:46 <aosdict> dtype: aw you jinxed it
23:47 <dtype> aosdict: meh, have gone 2 years before, and I have a planned player boot sometime next month
23:47 <dtype> so already done on record
23:47 <dtype> i have to migrate 300GB of local storage and get to a different instance type and reservation
23:48 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] k2 (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Lord Surtur, on T:20299
23:49 <K2> \o/
23:50 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] k2 (Val Hum Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:20300
23:53 <K2> ok quest complete
23:53 <K2> lets update xnethack
23:53 <PavelB> That's only whereis right, not curses yet?
23:54 <K2> correct
23:54 <aosdict> PavelB: Give me a few minutes.
23:54 <PavelB> Oh cool
23:55 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought