00:02 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought
00:02 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ
00:03 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
00:45 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
00:45 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ
00:54 -!- greqrg has quit [Quit: Disconnected]
00:59 <Grassy> "The ogre king zaps a wand of death! The death ray whizzes by you! The death ray bounces! The death ray whizzes by you! The ogre king is killed by the death ray!"
00:59 <Grassy> what a moron
01:00 -!- Grassy is now known as Grasshopper
01:28 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
01:30 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:32 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
01:33 -!- MiseryMyra has joined #hardfought
01:37 -!- MisteryMyra has joined #hardfought
01:39 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought
01:39 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ
01:40 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
01:42 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
02:34 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Thoth, on T:28443
02:58 <raisse> You hear an animal carcass being offered in sacrifice.  It bites!
02:59 * raisse is trying to get Thoth to give her Magicbane, too
03:01 <Grassy> Thoth might be having a break
03:01 -!- Grassy is now known as Grasshopper
03:01 <raisse> eep, got the booby prize in the tengu lottery
03:01 <Grasshopper> urgh!
03:01 <raisse> I know I should have sacrificed it, not eaten it
03:02 <Grasshopper> ah well, you'll just have to get to lv17 then
03:02 <raisse> that's 10 more levels
03:02 <raisse> usually I don't get to level 17 with *any* character
03:03 <raisse>  beyond 15 there's little use except for wizards and spellcasting healers
03:03 <raisse> never mind, killed by team a
03:03 <raisse> that's nice bones, if it left bones 
03:04 <raisse> and someone can get the blessed scroll of remove curse out of my bag
03:04 <raisse> BoH, magic lamp, speed boots, +0 gauntlets of dexterity
03:04 <Grasshopper> nice set of gear
03:05 <Grasshopper> This wiz started with that blessed scroll of genocide, uncursed scroll of enchant weapon (which I used immediately to make a +2 staff, now superceded by MB) and rings of regeneration and teleport control
03:06 <Grasshopper> so pretty lucky really
03:06 <Grasshopper> and surprisingly, I didn't splat him. Well, not yet anyway
03:28 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] EnnuiAF (Val Dwa Fem Law), 32 points, T:213, killed by a bear trap
03:28 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
03:32 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
03:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 87800 points, T:17420, killed by a xorn
03:42 -!- MysteryMyra has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
03:56 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought
03:56 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ
03:58 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
03:59 <FIQ> aosdict: No
04:06 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought
04:06 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ
04:07 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
04:12 -!- bug_sniper_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
04:15 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought
04:17 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
04:19 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
04:19 -!- elenmirie_ is now known as elenmirie
04:26 <Grasshopper> nice one
04:37 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] DrakeMarshall (Bin Inc Fem Non) killed Cerberus, on T:13162
05:38 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought
05:57 <rld> <@Winsalot> FIQ: I never said slex had good qol features. By QOL contntent FIQhack is number one 😃
05:57 <FIQ> @Winsalot oh I thought you were comparing vanilla against slex in that reddit picture
05:58 <rld> <@Winsalot> I just chose slex there because I liked its colors
05:58 <FIQ> ah
06:05 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
06:08 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought
06:08 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ
06:10 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
06:19 -!- Grassy is now known as Grasshopper
06:24 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1]
06:33 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
06:33 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ
06:55 <Grasshopper> !streak Tariru 
06:55 <Beholder> Grasshopper: [hdf-us] Tariru Max[slex]: 1 (2018-03-11 - 2018-04-10)(current).
06:55 <Beholder> Grasshopper: [hdf-eu] Tariru Max[slex]: 1 (2018-04-07 - 2018-04-28)(current).
07:33 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:36 <Tariru> K2: My SLEX game seems to have frozen, and trying to reconnect again (after the Stale ... resuming in 10 seconds message) just has the terminal hang, then gives an error that an existing process couldn't be terminated gracefully.
07:36 <Tariru> Not sure if this is a bug with SLEX or with the server.
07:37 <Tariru> There's an option to force terminate, but I'm not sure about trying it.
07:37 <FIQ> Tariru: that means that your game ended up in an infinite loop
07:38 <FIQ> not much that can be done besides force-quitting it
07:38 <FIQ> but if you're willing to wait, K2 could try to attach gdb to it and tell larien where it got stuck
07:38 <Tariru> Ah. So presumably Amy needs to know about this one.
07:38 <aosdict> yay bugs
07:38 <Tariru> I presume it'll force-quit itself if its idle for more than an hour anyway?
07:38 <FIQ> it will not
07:39 <FIQ> after an hour it will confuse dgl and dgl will let you (try to) fire up a new game as if the old one was force-terminated
07:39 <FIQ> but the process will still stay around
07:39 <FIQ> needs manual intervention by K2 at that point
07:40 <Tariru> So will the force-termination just kill my save entirely?
07:40 <FIQ> no, it'd be as if the game crashed
07:40 <Pinkbeast> Does SLEX still punish you for disconnects?
07:41 <Tariru> It doesn't have the hanguppenalty, so there isn't a severe penalty for it.
07:41 <Tariru> But it does paralyze you for a few turns, which could be nasty.
07:42 <Pinkbeast> Well, it could kill you, which is _quite_ a severe penalty
07:43 <Tariru> !tell LarienTelrunya It looks like SLEX ended up in an infinite loop in my game, T39845. Happened while I was kicking a sink repeatedly as a naga player race, and using ctrl-A to skip past some of the prompts.
07:43 <Beholder> Will do, Tariru!
07:43 <aosdict> Pinkbeast: It used to be much worse.
07:45 <Pinkbeast> aosdict: I know! I think that was the EPI I choked on.
07:47 <aosdict> Come to think of it, much of LT's complaining about bugs in other variants like FIQHack genocide happened while slex was punishing players for having bad connections, which is much worse IMO
07:50 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 13281 points, T:6013, killed by an owlbear
07:51 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought
07:51 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ
07:56 <aosdict> Hmm, I'm not sure why the quest magic portal *is* hidden. Does it serve any purpose to be hidden?
07:57 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
08:11 <K2> hi
08:11 <Beholder> Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought
08:11 <FIQ> aosdict: slex has had bugs killing people's saves
08:11 <FIQ> including mine, thrice
08:12 <FIQ> Pinkbeast: hangup penalty is the only slex feature I constantly told LT to get rid of
08:13 <K2> looks like his game is ok now
08:13 <FIQ> it was taking things too far
08:13 <K2> skimming backscroll
08:13 <K2> FYI - i leave in 30 min for a weekend camping trip, will be away from computer for next 36 hrs or so
08:14 <FIQ> !who
08:14 <Beholder> FIQ: [hdf-us] Grasshopper [nh361] 
08:14 <Beholder> FIQ: [hdf-eu] Tariru [slex] winsalot [slex] 
08:14 <K2> any issues, leave me a !tell or see if Tangles is available
08:14 <aosdict> have fun!
08:14 <aosdict> where?
08:14 <FIQ> see you K2 
08:14 <FIQ> Tariru: wtf is that level
08:14 <K2> its a place that does not have an E in it
08:14 <FIQ> it's basically line noise
08:14 <aosdict> K2: so stratton mountain. got it
08:14 <K2> heh
08:14 <FIQ> ah, hawaii
08:14 <K2> camp twin hills
08:15 <Tariru> FIQ: It's something to do with the spacewards fighter role SLEX has. Basically, full of evil traps and weird features.
08:15 <FIQ> Tariru: that level looks like DCSS abyss
08:15 <Tariru> Amy randomly replaces certain special levels like the sunless sea, which this would have been, with weird things.
08:17 <aosdict> "full of evil traps and weird features" just describes slex.
08:22 <rld> <@Winsalot> FIQ: something else I like about slex is that it has a lot of things randomized. Such as generation rates of certain type of items, skill caps (yes, on top of already existing skill caps), monster types, skill training rates and such.  This sometimes makes the game evil, but it also adds another layer of randomness and unpredictability as well as a nerf to startscumming.
08:25 -!- hothraxxa has joined #hardfought
08:26 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v hothraxxa] by ChanServ
08:26 <FIQ> @Winsalot I see
08:28 <aosdict> Yeah, it's a good feature for the type of player who likes randomness.
08:28 <rld> <@Winsalot> I thought liking roguelikes=liking randomness? 😃
08:29 <aosdict> There's a continuum of how much randomness you prefer, I think.
08:29 <aosdict> Personally I don't like the amount of randomness in slex but I respect that other players do.
08:31 <Mandevil> FUCK MY LIFE>
08:31 <Mandevil> Second game in a row.
08:31 <Mandevil> That ends with touch of death.
08:31 <Mandevil> In Gnomish Mines, of course.
08:32 <rld> <@Winsalot> Speaking about randomness in slex, I think item appearances (which includes the material they are made from) are also randomized and it has quite a impact effect compared to other variants I played. Appearance determines whether item can errode, can it shatter, is it edible and etc.   The result is that every single game feels like a different experience.
08:32 <FIQ> @Winsalot this is a vanilla feature
08:33 <aosdict> Yeah, every version and variant that are played today has that.
08:33 <rld> <@Winsalot> But I believe that vanilla doesnt have edible weapons or glass food 😃
08:33 <aosdict> It does not, but the infrastructure's there. You _could_, if you defined one weapon to have a food material or whatever.
08:34 <rld> <@Winsalot> I think I had one game in slex where triple rations were generated as being made from glass 😃
08:34 <Pinkbeast> In vanilla it's more "does this rust or burn or rot" which isn't much of a big deal. Unless you're into ring-eating.
08:34 <aosdict> @Winsalot once I finish implementing this object materials patch I'll make an artifact flesh club named Meat Stick just for you
08:34 <aosdict> (/s)
08:35 <hothraxxa> mandevil: will the scoreboard ass splicehack soon?
08:36 <jonadab> @Winsalot There is a difference between randomness as in "I have no idea what is around the next corner" and randomness as in "I have no idea what an 'epilepsy urology hand excruciating' is supposed to be or why I suddenly can't see my status area."
08:36 <Mandevil> If there's demand for it and someone gives me the required info.
08:37 <jonadab> Procedural generation is not the same thing as blatant nonsense.
08:37 <Pinkbeast> no idea what is around the next corner> in SLEX it's probably some shoes
08:37 <hothraxxa> er. ADD. i meant add, honest
08:37 <aosdict> sure you did
08:38 <Mandevil> I suggest people played boneless in 3.6.1 on hdf for a while.
08:38 <Mandevil> It's quite possible there are bones with archlich on dlvl 9 and 10.
08:38 <aosdict> jonadab: I think the biggest source of complaining about obj materials is no more (explicitly) mithril coats.
08:38 <jonadab> I suppose next you're going to tell us you're on a QWERTY keyboard and those keys are _right next_ to each other?
08:39 <jonadab> aosdict: Eh, that would be ok, if combined with dtsund's dragon scale proposal :-)
08:39 <aosdict> jonadab: Well, you can still get e.g. a mithril dwarvish chain mail.
08:40 <aosdict> Hm, I'm going to need to special case a bunch of object names to put the material after the first word, because that phrase doesn't sound quite right.
08:42 <jonadab> aosdict: Yes, but then next game it might not be chain mail.  Contributing to everybody's ascension kit not being exacty identical.
08:44 <aosdict> You are saying this is a good thing, right?
08:46 <aosdict> ooh, dnethack has iambic pentameter artifacts
08:46 <aosdict> the sceptre of the frozen floor of hell
08:52 <jonadab> aosdict: I said it _would_ be ok, if combined with dtsund's dragon scale proposal (and not undermined by dragonhide everything being a thing).
08:52 <aosdict> I don't intend to make dragonhide wishable, FWIW.
08:53 <aosdict> jonadab: Not exactly sure what you meant by "next game it might not be chain mail"
08:53 <jonadab> aosdict: I mean, you're not going to find mithril chain mail every game, hopefully.  Sometimes you might find mithril ring mail, or mithril plate mail.
08:53 <aosdict> Sure.
08:54 <aosdict> Ok I thought you might be thinking of it as a certain armor type would _always_ be mithril in a given game, which, no.
08:54 <hothraxxa> studded  mithril
08:55 <jonadab> Hopefully you can't find a mithril T-shirt.
08:56 <hothraxxa> why not? those would be cool
08:56 <jonadab> Blessed, very thoroughly corred mithril T-shirt of speed and fumbling?
08:56 <jonadab> *corroded
08:56 <aosdict> jonadab: let's not go overboard here, object properties are still miles away
08:57 <aosdict> hothraxxa: I think the main problem is a mithril T-shirt would be quite rigid
08:57 <hothraxxa> nah, mithril is flexible stuff
08:57 <hothraxxa> you can knit it
08:57 <Grasshopper> yeah, they weave it into shirts and stuff 
08:57 <Grasshopper> and give them to hobbits
08:58 <hothraxxa> mithril mittens
08:58 <Grasshopper> Frodo was able to wear a mithril shirt under his other clothes and nobody even noticed
08:58 <Grasshopper> until a cave troll stabbed him
08:59 <aosdict> that was some sort of chain mail, not a T-shirt
08:59 <Grasshopper> it was a mithril shirt
08:59 <hothraxxa> a frock
08:59 <hothraxxa> pinkbeast would say it was really a frock
09:00 <Grasshopper> chainmail is really just a big frock anyway
09:00 <Pinkbeast> And he's stabbed by an orc captain
09:00 <hothraxxa> well, a tunic, yes
09:00 <jonadab> It was a very fine version, but yes, it was essentially chain mail, with very tiny links.
09:00 <Grasshopper> and very light
09:01 <Grasshopper> anyway, the books describe it as a shirt
09:01 <jonadab> Light mostly because thin, I think; though mitril is lighter at a given thickness than iron or steel.
09:01 <aosdict> I thought they describe it as a corslet, which is more than a shirt
09:02 <Grasshopper> probably lighter than aluminium
09:02 <jonadab> Grasshopper: More like titanium.
09:02 <jonadab> Light not so much because it's light, as because you don't need as much of it for a given strength.
09:02 <jonadab> Also, it's very explictly an alloy.
09:03 <Grasshopper> "small coat of mail"
09:04 <Grasshopper> is what the book says when Thorin gives it to Bilbo
09:04 <jonadab> Yeah.  The word "shirt" is also used, at another point.
09:04 <Pinkbeast> It's a "small shirt of mail" "close-woven of many rings, as supple almost as linen" when Bilbo gives it to Frodo
09:04 <aosdict> and "corslet" is also used
09:04 <jonadab> It's a very _fine_ grade of mail.
09:04 <aosdict> I think when Gimli is talking about it
09:04 <jonadab> Amazing workmanship.
09:05 <Pinkbeast> "dwarf-mail"
09:05 <jonadab> One can only imagine the dwarf hours that went into the making of it.
09:05 <aosdict> Was it ever specified whether it was dwarvish made or elvish?
09:05 <aosdict> I mean, they found it at the lonely mountain so probably dwarvish
09:05 <Grasshopper> "worth more than the Shire"
09:06 <jonadab> I always assumed it was of dwarvish make.
09:06 <Grasshopper> dwarvish
09:06 <aosdict> https://nhqdb.alt.org/?2131
09:07 <Grasshopper> aosdict, lol Groundhog Day?
09:09 -!- tacco| has joined #hardfought
09:10 <aosdict> ?
09:14 <Grasshopper> history repeats itself
09:17 <aosdict> been a very long time since I saw that film
09:19 <Grasshopper> Is a good one
09:20 -!- Guest17967 has quit [Changing host]
09:20 -!- Guest17967 has joined #hardfought
09:20 -!- Guest17967 is now known as stenno
09:20 <Grasshopper> Andie McDowell looks so much like my younger sister it is uncanny
09:21 <Grasshopper> she's a good looking lady
09:26 <Mandevil> Splicehack doesn't support dumplogs?
09:27 <Mandevil> At least there are no on hdf.
09:27 <aosdict> I think AntiGulp may not have enabled DUMPLOG
09:29 <jonadab> If it were just a matter of a #define, that could be done at build time by the server admins.
09:29 <jonadab> Would be, normally.
09:29 <jonadab> But I think 3.6.1 doesn't have the dumplog patch applied.
09:29 <aosdict> 3.6.1 has native dumplogs.
09:30 <jonadab> (On hardfought it might, but I think that might be local to hdf.)
09:30 <aosdict> NAO has dumplogs.
09:30 <jonadab> Oh, does it?
09:30 <jonadab> Oh, ok.
09:30 <Mandevil> NAO has dumplogs.
09:30 <aosdict> NAO has dumplogs.
09:30 <jonadab> In that case the code is probably there.
09:31 <aosdict> I don't think I did anything to add it in besides maybe tweaking config.h to define DUMPLOG.
09:31 <aosdict> It was a while ago.
09:31 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
09:31 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ
09:32 <Mandevil> Too many variants there ... it takes forever to refresh everything.
09:34 <jonadab> Is it not possible to refresh on a per-variant basis?
09:36 <aosdict> jonadab: should I keep in the 1% of cloth objects generating as flesh from grunthack? ;)
09:36 <jonadab> Eww.
09:36 <jonadab> Please tell me you just made that up.
09:37 <aosdict> nope that is a real thing
09:38 -!- Tariru_ has joined #hardfought
09:38 <Pinkbeast> https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Dr._Vahzilok # meat suit
09:39 * aosdict wishes for a flesh T-shirt
09:39 <aosdict> "This flesh T-shirt is delicious!"
09:40 <rld> <@kritixilithos> "The dog bites. The neighbourhood becomes friendlier."
09:40 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought
09:40 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ
09:41 -!- Tariru has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
09:43 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
09:48 -!- jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought
09:48 <jonathanhanes> good morning all
09:49 <Grassy> hello jonathanhanes long time no see
09:49 <aosdict> morning
09:49 -!- Grassy is now known as Grasshopper
09:54 <Mandevil> Wait, splicehack has new roles/races?
09:54 <aosdict> Yes.
09:55 <aosdict> SpliceHack: Making Mandevil Go AUGH Since 2018!
09:58 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought
09:59 <Mandevil> OK, SLEX mode for SpliceHack too
10:00 <Mandevil> I guess that's going to be the default.
10:00 <Mandevil> I cannot be bothered to gather what roles/races whatever each new variant has.
10:02 <LarienTelrunya> .
10:02 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: Message from Tariru at 2018-05-05 07:43 EDT: It looks like SLEX ended up in an infinite loop in my game, T39845. Happened while I was kicking a sink repeatedly as a naga player race, and using ctrl-A to skip past some of the prompts.
10:03 <LarienTelrunya> Tariru_: did it get resolved?
10:03 <Pinkbeast> Mandevil: You don't have a pressing urge to play a spriggan cheese wizard?
10:03 <Mandevil> Doesn't seem so.
10:04 <jonadab> That sounds like DCSS talk.
10:04 <Mandevil> Maybe splicehack has spriggans
10:04 <Mandevil> Who knows.
10:04 <LarienTelrunya> Who mangled my name into "LarienTelr" in that newest nhqdb quote??? stenno: fix plz, I never used that nickname.
10:05 <LarienTelrunya> I want it to read "LarienTelrunya".
10:05 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: Some IRC clients have limits on nick length.
10:05 <LarienTelrunya> Wow. And people tell me that *webchat* allegedly sucks.
10:05 <Mandevil> 10 characters ought to be enough for everybody.
10:05 <jonadab> Anyone using one of those clients, may seen an abbreviated nick, unless your nick is short.
10:05 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: Well, it's typically a user setting.
10:06 <jonadab> But yes, some users want to keep the nicks to 10 or so characters, so the actual text has more space on their puny little 80x24 terminals.
10:07 <Mandevil> Maybe I should institute a rule for addition to NHS: There must be one ascension on public server that is not by the variant author.
10:07 <aosdict> Mandevil: I'm not adding any new roles or races anytime soon.
10:07 <Pinkbeast> Mandevil: "NHS"?
10:07 <Mandevil> NetHack Scoreboard.
10:07 <jonadab> We've all been calling it SXC, because scoreboard.xd.cm
10:07 <jonadab> :-)
10:08 <LarienTelrunya> Mandevil: what would that rule be good for? slex has more than one non-variant-author ascension already :P
10:08 <Mandevil> scoreboard.nethack.org would be nicer.
10:08 <Mandevil> LarienTelrunya: For the new variants, obviously.
10:08 <LarienTelrunya> Well, it's a matter of time until they also get ascended...
10:08 <Mandevil> Or they got dropped.
10:08 <Mandevil> get
10:09 <aosdict> jonadab: Sometimes it's nice to be able to work on nethack and see IRC at the same time.
10:09 <LarienTelrunya> what??? splicehack gets dropped? when, and why?
10:09 <Mandevil> I don't say that it will.
10:09 * aosdict burns a splicehack floppy disk and drops it on the floor
10:09 <Mandevil> aosdict: Aren't you xnethack dev/
10:09 <Mandevil> ?
10:09 <aosdict> yes?
10:09 <Mandevil> You talk like a splicehack dv.
10:10 <Mandevil> (dev)
10:10 <aosdict> antigulp has shown up like 4 times briefly, that's not enough time to gather data on how splicehack devs talk
10:10 <aosdict> :P
10:11 <Mandevil> Now someone make a case for increasing the fragmentation of the NetHack scene.
10:12 <Tariru_> LarienTelrunya: Forcing the process to die fixed it, the game resumed normally.
10:13 <Mandevil> I need to rethink the way NHS is configured.
10:13 <LarienTelrunya> Tariru_: ah, good :) hopefully it won't happen again. It can sometimes be caused by certain monster spawn routines that look for specific monsters, which can take a while to finish; unfortunately, without an attached gdb/valgrind we can't know what the game is really doing :(
10:14 <LarienTelrunya> and I was trying to reproduce it in wizmode with gdb attached but in 200+ attempts it didn't happen! gah!
10:14 <FIQ> aosdict: I think Mandevil has just been progressively more averse to new variants over time
10:14 <FIQ> rather than people contributing on a single one
10:15 <Mandevil> I used to be quite fond of variants.
10:15 <LarienTelrunya> we live in an era where everyone and their mother wants to jump onto the variant-making train :D
10:15 <Mandevil> And I still am.
10:15 <Mandevil> But there can be too much of a good thing.
10:16 <LarienTelrunya> Mandevil: the slex author disagrees on that last statement ;)
10:17 <Mandevil> Who would have guessed.
10:18 <aosdict> LarienTelrunya: we live in an era where literally two people recently have wanted to jump on the variant-making train.
10:18 <aosdict> Well, okay, two who have actually followed through with it.
10:19 <aosdict> I've seen NCommander and others talk about what-ifs.
10:19 <LarienTelrunya> nah, there's others beside yourself and AntiGulp: mcw is making what I consider a NetHack variant, NCommander might want to make a variant someday, Demo is working on a dnethack variant, and probably others I forgot
10:19 <rld> <@Winsalot> LarienTelrunya: hoi, need your suggestion abpout slex. What race goes well with psion role?
10:19 <LarienTelrunya> Winsalot: uhh :D dunno really... maybe troll due to the resurrect-on-death ability?
10:19 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
10:20 <rld> <@Winsalot> resurrect-on-death ability?
10:20 <LarienTelrunya> 75% chance of coming back to life, losing two levels in the process
10:20 <aosdict> Mandevil: It's mainly because so far what everyone wants out of a variant is incompatible in some ways with everyone else's.
10:20 <rld> <@Winsalot> like I will be litaraly invincible?
10:20 <LarienTelrunya> naaaaaaaah
10:21 <Mandevil> aosdict: It would be fine if there were also mergers between variants.
10:21 <Mandevil> aosdict: But so far there's only fission.
10:21 <aosdict> jonadab: Apart from plastic pickaxes, any other weird illogical combinations you can think of? I'm special casing things like that so they don't generate.
10:21 <LarienTelrunya> splicehack medusa kill get! TROPHY GET!
10:22 <rld> <@Winsalot> Abt any cool arm-less races that could actually use implants by their intended purpose? Insectoid seemed fun, but I'm open to trying something new
10:22 <Pinkbeast> Winsalot> Well, if you can avoid hitting XL 0 and are really good at rolling d4s, you'd be invincible
10:22 <LarienTelrunya> Winsalot: mould can be fun, they have polymorphitis ;)
10:22 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: spliceslex when?
10:22 <LarienTelrunya> lol jonadab 
10:23 <LarienTelrunya> but I will implement the splicehack monsters that AntiGulp shredded for petty reasons
10:23 <aosdict> Mandevil: Generally the things or philosophies that prevent two variants from merging don't stop conflicting with each other.
10:23 <LarienTelrunya> "notakitchensinkvariant" :P
10:23 <aosdict> I can't really see any of the NH4 variants merging, for instance; their design goals differ too much.
10:24 <rld> <@Winsalot> hybrid races   : randomizer mazewalker minimalist curses geoing crazy with hybrid races this time
10:25 <LarienTelrunya> oh you're also on hdf-eu
10:25 <aosdict> LarienTelrunya: Being a kitchen sink variant doesn't mean you're not allowed to remove stuff you don't like anymore. It just means you have lots and lots of things that weren't in the base game.
10:25 <LarienTelrunya> one day I will fix that, but for now curses-slex unfortunately sometimes gives random hybrid races
10:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 625257 points, T:52284, killed by invisible Yeenoghu
10:25 <LarienTelrunya> aosdict: but splicehack doesn't actually have all that much to begin with, sadly!
10:26 <LarienTelrunya> it definitely has less stuff than slashem
10:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Hlf Mal Non) killed the Sir Garland, on T:15516
10:26 <aosdict> LarienTelrunya: why are you projecting expectations on splicehack to be bigger than slashem
10:26 <rld> <@Winsalot> LarienTelrunya: any races that have partcularly high consitution and normal MS?
10:26 <aosdict> antigulp never expressed any such goal
10:27 <LarienTelrunya> aosdict: oh, I thought he wanted to make a second slashem
10:27 <rld> <@kritixilithos> while playing splicehack, I sometimes teleport rather randomly, is this intentional? (basically from the start of the game, I haven't eaten or done anything special)
10:27 <LarienTelrunya> Winsalot: MS? also, ironman race (if not used as hybrid) gives good HP growth :P trapper might do so too
10:27 <aosdict> "The end goal is a "kitchen sink" variant similar
10:27 <aosdict> to SLASH'EM"
10:27 <LarienTelrunya> yeah
10:27 <aosdict> darn newlines
10:28 <Mandevil> I wonder what variants will there be in Junethack
10:29 <aosdict> all of them?
10:29 <aosdict> bhaak seems pretty cool with it
10:29 <Mandevil> Making King of the Hill pretty much unattainable?
10:29 <rld> <@Winsalot> MS= movement speed. I really dont want to bother with slow races
10:30 <LarienTelrunya> Winsalot: only few races have slower speed; it's mostly roles that are slower, anyway the ones I mentioned all don't get slowdown ;)
10:30 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought
10:32 <LarienTelrunya> YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY the vanilla interface screw caused me to fall into the water
10:33 <Grasshopper> free swim!
10:33 <LarienTelrunya> when trying to zap the wand of cold, you expect there to be a fucking direction prompt, or if you get "nothing happens" it should give a motherfucking --More--!
10:33 <aosdict> LarienTelrunya: play xnethack it doesn't have that
10:33 <LarienTelrunya> what am I supposed to do? make it so that every "nothing happens" gives --More--?
10:33 <aosdict> also, the irony of *you* complaining about interface screw is delicious
10:33 <Mandevil> LarienTelrunya: Sounds like a logical choice.
10:33 <LarienTelrunya> hey, *slex* fixes such bullshit interface screws
10:34 <aosdict> yes but it intentionally introduces much worse ones
10:34 <LarienTelrunya> should have zapped the submerged Excalibur with teleport instead :(
10:37 <LarienTelrunya> why can't there be paranoid trap
10:37 <Pinkbeast> paranoid_water and paranoid_lava too please
10:37 <LarienTelrunya> this is the third time in succession that I fell into the pit obscured by items now
10:37 <Mandevil> And paranoid_cleaver
10:37 <LarienTelrunya> yeah, paranoid_water would have prevented me from getting all my stuff wetted as a consequence of the STUPID INTERFACE SCREW FROM HELL
10:37 <Pinkbeast> LarienTelrunya: Also put the pit on _top_ and indicate the stack by reverse video
10:37 <rld> <@Winsalot> So this is how game of ironman race looks like?
10:37 <rld> <Winsalot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/442334111676366868/ok.....png
10:38 <Mandevil> Pinkbeast: Sounds so obvious, right?
10:38 <LarienTelrunya> Winsalot: you got lucky :D
10:38 <LarienTelrunya> ironman mainly affects rooms-and-corridors levels
10:38 <rld> <@Winsalot> Btw is wiki page about slex races/roles up to date?
10:38 <Pinkbeast> Mandevil: Well, it is now. I can't believe how long I had Stockholm Syndrome about this kind of thing.
10:39 <LarienTelrunya> Winsalot: should have all current roles/races
10:39 <FIQ> Mandevil: Pinkbeast but it isn't
10:39 <FIQ> reverse doesn't work on darkgray in several terminals
10:39 <Mandevil> FIQ: Like old VT52?
10:40 <Mandevil> FIQ: I mean the physical DEC VT52
10:40 <FIQ> Mandevil: um... it doesn't work in Konsole or xfce's terminal
10:40 <Pinkbeast> Change trap colours as necessary (is any trap dark grey? And dark grey itself doesn't work in some terminals (as I'm sure you know))
10:40 <FIQ> hell, the only one where I've seen it work properly is gnome-terminal
10:40 <FIQ> and that one has several other issues
10:40 <Mandevil> FIQ: 256-color terminal or bust.
10:41 <FIQ> Mandevil: this is reverse-video, not 256color
10:41 <FIQ> the only terminal I've used that doesn't have 256color is my phone's
10:41 <Mandevil> FIQ: Also, I don't understand why you are raising this?
10:41 <Mandevil> FIQ: Just fricking put gray-inverse there and be done.
10:42 <Pinkbeast> FIQ is pointing out, not unreasonably, that like most "obvious" ideas it has some inobvious gotchas
10:43 <rld> <@Koumakan> BEES
10:43 <Mandevil> In crawl you get fixed color indication of trap overlay, right?
10:43 <FIQ> Mandevil: I am not arguing against having a better UI, I'm just saying that there's better solutions that actually have more widespread compatibility
10:44 <FIQ> For example, keeping the 3.4.3-nao blue background for object piles, that kind of indicator would work fine in this case rather than reverse
10:44 <LarienTelrunya> wtf I can't pass diagonally between long worm segments???
10:44 <FIQ> No, I don't know why background colors have more widespread support in this day and age than reverse video
10:45 <Pinkbeast> I doubt it's actually implemented with the curses reverse video thingy but by working out what background colour is wanted and displaying that; I appreciate it was worded wrongly.
10:45 <Mandevil> FIQ: When items are piled on top of a trap, make the display black ^ on gray background.
10:45 <Mandevil> FIQ: How hard is that?
10:45 <FIQ> Pinkbeast: No, it is "true" reverse
10:45 <LarienTelrunya> man why did AntiGulp put this annoying arena level below Medusa
10:45 <Pinkbeast> FIQ: Errrr. Are we speaking of the same "it" ?
10:45 <FIQ> Mandevil: It is inconsistent?
10:45 <FIQ> Pinkbeast: I am talking about this
10:45 <FIQ> hmm
10:46 <FIQ> that didn't work
10:46 <Mandevil> FIQ: In what sense inconsistent? Inconsistent with what?
10:46 <Pinkbeast> FIQ: Ah. I meant "it" == "what happens in DCSS"
10:46 <FIQ> I don't play DCSS that much
10:46 <LarienTelrunya> and why did he put the meme dragon and a bunch of energy vortices here
10:46 <FIQ> Mandevil: Inconsistent with how object piles generally display
10:46 <Pinkbeast> Mandevil: That masks the trap's colour - handy to know if it's a Zot trap or spear etc
10:46 <Pinkbeast> FIQ: Right, but now we know what each other meant by "it" perhaps our previous remarks will make more sense to each other.
10:46 <LarienTelrunya> the hell, AntiGulp? what did you do to the dungeon
10:47 <Mandevil> Pinkbeast: OK, make the background color be that of the normal trap symbol.
10:47 <kritixilithos> !tell AntiGulp I started a new game of splicehack as a wizard, why do I have intrinsic teleportation (didn't eat or drink anything special)? (or at least, it appears to be that way)
10:47 <Beholder> Will do, kritixilithos!
10:47 <FIQ> Pinkbeast: I don't play DCSS, so you telling me what DCSS does doesn't help me at all, sorry
10:47 <Pinkbeast> ... surely it is precisely most informative to someone who doesn't play it?
10:47 <LarienTelrunya> !tell AntiGulp colored branch staircases, please!!! how am I supposed to know that this downstair below Medusa leads to the meme branch with "lol you just died" void dragons and stuff, instead of to the castle?
10:47 <Beholder> Will do, LarienTelrunya!
10:47 <FIQ> Yes... if you tell what dcss actually does
10:47 <FIQ> :P
10:47 <Pinkbeast> ... which I did
10:48 <Mandevil> FIQ: I did tell you specifically what it does.
10:48 <LarienTelrunya> "moist towel" wtf
10:48 <Pinkbeast> Get a purple L at the Castle and it can be "lol you just died" - is the meme branch instantly fatal, or can you go back upstairs?
10:48 <Mandevil> I also don't say it has to be that way.
10:49 <Pinkbeast> Also given a paranoid_trap the display would be less critical
10:49 <FIQ> so if we have a trap, 4^
10:49 <Mandevil> But not displaying traps at all because something is on top of them and then letting you walk onto them without warning is stupid.
10:49 <Mandevil> Hope we agree at least on that.
10:49 <LarienTelrunya> and it's also a *giant interface screw* (both dnethack and slex fix this one) that when using / to farlook, hitting , on a monster gives a --More-- only if the description is long enough.
10:49 <LarienTelrunya> Pinkbeast: I genocided all liches.
10:49 <FIQ> DCSS objects on it would make it 1,5^
10:49 <FIQ> do I have it right?
10:49 <Mandevil> I think yes.
10:49 <FIQ> or does it make it 1,4^ (A_REVERSE)
10:50 <Mandevil> Hm, interesting.
10:50 <Pinkbeast> FIQ: I don't know if you had any colour there but it appears right in monochrome. I seriously doubt it is done with A_REVERSE since as you observe that never works.
10:50 <FIQ> Either way, you'd have to change pit color
10:50 <Mandevil> Never looked that close.
10:50 <FIQ> because pits are dark gray
10:50 <Mandevil> FIQ: Can't you ... special case them?
10:50 <FIQ> and dark gray bg doesn't exist in 16color
10:50 <FIQ> Mandevil: You can, of course
10:50 <Mandevil> I know it's problematic.
10:51 <Pinkbeast> Not having dark grey traps seems like a desirable thing in and of itself. (What if dark grey doesn't work?)
10:51 <FIQ> But IMO it'd be much saner to just use 3.4.3-nao and other variants' approach to object piles for this
10:51 <Mandevil> If dark grey doesn't work then they are blue.
10:51 <FIQ> so that it would be 4,2^
10:51 <Mandevil> Yes, that's still preferable to nothing.
10:51 <Pinkbeast> FIQ: Is that boldified? That also would be fine.
10:51 <Mandevil> FIQ: How does that work with rust traps, though?
10:52 <FIQ> (I also think that the game should avoid reverse in general)
10:52 <FIQ> Mandevil: You have played NH4, right?
10:52 <Mandevil> FIQ: Quite a long time ago.
10:52 <FIQ> If foreground and background color is the same
10:52 <FIQ> foreground is black (not darkgray)
10:52 <Mandevil> Sounds reasonable.
10:52 <FIQ> for instance, a tame gnome lord is black G, blue background
10:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed Ashikaga Takauji, on T:36961
10:52 <FIQ> (in NH4, tame monsters use blue bg)
10:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:36964
10:54 <FIQ> Pinkbeast: @FIQ │ DCSS objects on it would make it [fg:black,bg:red]^ :: @FIQ │ or does it make it [fg:black,bg:orange]^ (A_REVERSE) :: @FIQ │ so that it would be [fg:orange,bg:blue]^
10:54 <FIQ> there is color info for those messages for you
10:54 <FIQ> for some context
10:55 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Hlf Mal Non) was given the Pen of the Void, on T:18656
10:56 <aosdict> LarienTelrunya: In splicehack, there are a bunch of "lol you just died" elder dragons. Better genocide all D.
10:56 <LarienTelrunya> yeah, I've read about those
10:56 <LarienTelrunya> unfortunately I'm low on resources though
10:56 <FIQ> aosdict: There is?
10:57 <Pinkbeast> FIQ: Again, I'm pretty sure it does not literally use A_REVERSE
10:57 <aosdict> FIQ: Well, void is the worst of them, but the others are plenty nasty too.
10:57 <FIQ> Pinkbeast: ok
10:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Hlf Mal Non) was given Werebane, on T:18765
10:58 <LarienTelrunya> ...why is this a wand of sonics, it polymorphed the engraving
10:59 <LarienTelrunya> !tell AntiGulp ... great. You made a fallthrough bug in the engraving message for the wand of sonics, causing me to think it was a wand of polymorph. Please insert the missing break statement!
10:59 <Beholder> Will do, LarienTelrunya!
10:59 <LarienTelrunya> now I don't actually have a wand of polymorph and can't even polypile to fix my kit!
10:59 <Pinkbeast> FIQ: Concrete example; a spear trap is bold cyan ^. If I drop an object on it I get a black unbold ^ on a cyan background.
10:59 <aosdict> Wouldn't it have been clear from the beginning that it was sonics?
10:59 <FIQ> but you can sonicboom it!
10:59 <aosdict> via series of loud bangs?
10:59 <LarienTelrunya> aosdict: No, because thanks to the fallthrough it gave exactly the same engrave message.
11:00 <FIQ> Pinkbeast: yes, that seems like it doesn't use A_REVERSE
11:00 <LarienTelrunya> didn't see the bangs message
11:00 <FIQ> I thought you were talking about NetHack earlier
11:00 <FIQ> which I know uses A_REVERSE for its item piles
11:00 <FIQ> (3.6.x)
11:00 <LarienTelrunya> now I can forget it, because I can't pass the drawbridge
11:01 <aosdict> maybe try to sonicboom the drawbridge down!
11:01 <aosdict> nah buzz() won't work like that
11:03 <LarienTelrunya> hmm, you know what? I'll use-test random scrolls and potions now (desperation strategy) :P
11:06 * aosdict waits for LarienTelrunya to get a cursed scroll of cloning
11:07 <LarienTelrunya> oh, is that the one that spawns a grim reaper?
11:07 <aosdict> no that's the deck of fate (tarot deck, major arcana, death card)
11:08 <LarienTelrunya> ah
11:08 <FIQ> it spawns a hostile clone of you
11:09 <Mandevil> With cloned artifacts?
11:11 <FIQ> don't think it gets items, not sure
11:11 <FIQ> LarienTelrunya: why do you want to use-test scrolls?
11:11 <LarienTelrunya> out of desperation
11:12 <LarienTelrunya> and also so that I know what they are
11:12 <FIQ> but why?
11:12 <FIQ> you aren't in a tight spot
11:13 <LarienTelrunya> well, not anymore (confused teleport scroll to the rescue after I quaff-IDed booze)
11:15 <LarienTelrunya> having to BUC-test every single item on an altar is also quite the scrappy mechanic, unknown-uncursed scrolls of tele should stack onto known-uncursed ones :P
11:15 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
11:15 <LarienTelrunya> yay wand of striking get!
11:15 <LarienTelrunya> that drawbridge is going down :P
11:15 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
11:21 <aosdict> LarienTelrunya: you should give xnh another whirl, it has fixed like three of the things you've complained about so far
11:21 <LarienTelrunya> aosdict: maybe someday, but now I'm busy with splicehack
11:25 <aosdict> of course, antigulp is welcome to pull them into splicehack which can probably be done with minimal effort...
11:26 <LarienTelrunya> Experiment 92: monstrous spider / bugbear strikes at thin air!
11:28 <LarienTelrunya> GAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
11:28 * LarienTelrunya points at the lack of paranoid_trap, then curses.
11:29 <LarienTelrunya> oh greeeeeeeeeeat, he made it so that while polymorphed into something handless I can't throw
11:30 <aosdict> that... makes sense?
11:30 <aosdict> that's also not a splicehack change, it's in vanilla (and was in 3.4.3 afaik)
11:31 <LarienTelrunya> I'm pretty certain that 3.4.3 doesn't have that
11:31 <LarienTelrunya> probably got introduced in 3.6.x then?
11:31 <LarienTelrunya> I swear, everything that variant changes is making the game more annoying :P
11:33 <aosdict> explain to me why it makes sense that, say, a gray ooze would be able to launch projectiles with anything approaching the ability of a throwing arm
11:34 <aosdict> or a jackal
11:34 <aosdict> or a mold
11:34 <LarienTelrunya> the jackal has claws with which to grasp the throwing weapon :D
11:34 <Pinkbeast> Grey oozes undergo a peristaltic motion which expels the projectile with great force
11:35 <LarienTelrunya> okay I'll die now because I don't have reflection/MR and one of the soldiers is certainly gonna have a wand of death :P
11:36 <LarienTelrunya> wow that was fast
11:36 <LarienTelrunya> killed the giant mummy and air elemental, then lieutenant steps up and zaps a wand named stop moving, DYWYPI?
11:37 <aosdict> LarienTelrunya: monsters wish for wands of death by the way
11:37 <LarienTelrunya> aww the bot apparently doesn't report deaths on that old version
11:38 <LarienTelrunya> anyway, I'm dead at last so I can finally play ♥S♥L♥E♥X♥ again! god I won't miss that shitty vanilla interface with all its screws at all :P
11:41 <rld> <@Doesnt> not being able to throw without limbs is pure vanilla
11:41 <LarienTelrunya> just tested in Unnethack: while polymorphed into a giant rat, I can throw darts
11:42 <rld> <@Doesnt> just tested in 3.4.3, as a snake you can't throw
11:42 <rld> <@Doesnt> i think rats are allowed to because they have limbs of a sort
11:42 <LarienTelrunya> just tested in 3.4.3, can still throw as a giant rat
11:42 <LarienTelrunya> yep
11:45 <LarienTelrunya> man I've completely forgotten what is what in this game, i.e. which items I have identified, which parts of my kit are already in place and so on
11:47 <dtype> i have an AK together for the first time since 3.3.1
11:47 <dtype> I kind of skipped 3.4.3 as a player
11:47 <dtype> was that an important version?
11:47 <Pinkbeast> Well, it was certainly around for a while
11:48 <aosdict> !rng continue working on obj materials | play terraria
11:48 <Beholder> aosdict: play terraria
11:48 <aosdict> oh Beholder
11:48 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] Rx (Hea Gno Mal Neu), 4028 points, T:9413, killed by a white unicorn
11:49 <dtype> Adeon says if I don't ascend this game I'm not allowed to play nethack anymore. Have a full AK, 183hp, -38AC
11:49 <Pinkbeast> Alchemise your way to 300 HP?
11:50 <dtype> meh, have 2 "oLS, and with -38AC if I die, it won't be to organic damage
11:50 <Pinkbeast> I think there are two problems there 1) air elementals 2) why not, that giant bundle of Max HP is basically free
11:51 <dtype> already alchemied anyway. I lost ~60hp to fire traps before I realized I wasn't fire resistant
11:51 <Pinkbeast> Ouch!
11:51 <dtype> (again has been more than a decade since I played a serious game)
11:51 <Pinkbeast> At least you don't just "burn to a crisp" anymore :-)
11:52 <dtype> also have a couple wands of death, 3 cancellation, lots of teleport wands, lots of digging wands, my gold detection, etc, so *should* have no excuses here
11:52 <dtype> also have 3 spare wishes
11:53 <dtype> like Adeon says, I'm banned from the game if I can't make this work
11:53 <dtype> ohyeah, I've already genocided L and h
11:53 <Pinkbeast> What class?
11:53 <dtype> i rando'd a barbarian
11:54 <dtype> had severe id problems early on (zero stores to price ID scrolls in the entire game), but got over it
11:55 <Pinkbeast> Bad luck to get orcish town and no other shops
11:55 <dtype> yeah no stores other than minetown, that had no bookstore, no potion shop, no general store
11:55 <Pinkbeast> But it did have some shops? 
11:56 <dtype> yeah, just nothing that would price id scrolls or potions
11:56 <Mandevil> LarienTelrunya: Do you have these in SLEX? https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2012/10/dezeen_Scary-Beautiful-by-Leanie-van-de-Vyver_3.jpg
11:56 <Pinkbeast> Any shop will price ID anything, just throw it in and steal it back.
11:56 <dtype> ended up burning a wish for a scroll of id. kind of stupid.
11:56 <kritixilithos> I poly'ed my pet into a baby shimmering dragon in the beginning, and it killed a shopkeeper so I got all their gold, 3000 zk, I went into the mines hoping to find shops to spend my money on, but rng gives me orcish town
11:57 <dtype> Pinkbeast: yeah wasn't going to do that with a stack of 20 scrolls and no idea which one was id
11:57 <dtype> also had no pet at that point
11:57 <Pinkbeast> dtype: I don't see why not but you seem to have got through it OK
11:58 <dtype> meh, barbs can survive a long time in early game, so I just waited until I had a couple of wishes then finally just wished for the id scroll, which ended the drought
11:58 <Pinkbeast> I mean, a stack of 20 scrolls you can't use isn't doing you any good anyway, might as well let the shk hang onto them
11:59 <dtype> game ended up with a wand of wishing somewhere in minetown. luckily you can somewhat safely id wands
11:59 <Pinkbeast> Certainly you can entirely reliably ID wishing :-)
12:00 <dtype> yeah wands don't have downsides to iding by engraving other than burning charges
12:00 <dtype> as long as you do it on a level where you don't mind being blind
12:01 <dtype> anyway, will probably finish the game sometime today later
12:01 <dtype> one way or the other. But hoping to avoid being banned by Adeon from playing again by losing this one. heh
12:01 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought
12:01 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ
12:01 <dtype> i think he often ascends in the 100-150hp range with AC -20-ish
12:01 <dtype> but he speedruns
12:02 <dtype> sorry, that's like saying usain bolt "runs"
12:03 -!- kritixilithos has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:03 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought
12:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Hlf Mal Non) wished for "blessed greased bag of holding", on T:20279
12:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Hlf Mal Non) wished for "blessed magic marker", on T:20283
12:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Hlf Mal Non) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 helping hand", on T:20289
12:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Hlf Mal Non) wished for "blessed fixed ring of free action", on T:20290
12:23 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
12:23 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought
12:23 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ
12:23 <Grassy> jonadab, aosdict apparently Bilbo's mithril shirt is elven after all. 
12:25 -!- bug_sniper_ has joined #hardfought
12:25 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
12:25 <Grassy> when he sneaks out of the mountain to parley with the elves and humans, he is decribed as wearing "elven armor" 
12:25 <LarienTelrunya> Mandevil: what are they called?
12:26 -!- kritixilithos has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
12:27 <Grassy> and the Elvenking says to Bilbo "You are more worthy to wear the armour of elf princes than many that have looked more comely in it."
12:27 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought
12:27 <Grassy> so there you go
12:28 -!- stenno is now known as Guest28004
12:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Hlf Mal Non) wished for "blessed fixed greased engagement ring", on T:20305
12:31 -!- Guest28004 has quit [Changing host]
12:31 -!- Guest28004 has joined #hardfought
12:31 -!- Guest28004 is now known as stenno
12:32 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 17077 points, T:7107, killed by a bolt of fire
12:33 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Hlf Mal Non) wished for "blessed ring of slow digestion", on T:20636
12:35 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought
12:35 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought
12:36 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
12:36 <AntiGulp> Splicehack bugs are fixed on github. That teleportation one was really weird, I didn't know attributes of player monsters affected player abilities.
12:36 <Beholder> AntiGulp: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-05-04 16:36 EDT: The soldier zaps a shito!  The fAâ╛Ç hits you! The poison doesn't seem to affect you.  Your eyes sting.  You cough!
12:36 <Beholder> AntiGulp: Message from aosdict at 2018-05-04 18:56 EDT: Was talking to nhmall (DT member) about the necessity of editing the MSC files with your new function names. seems like there's no point unless you want to support 16 bit MS-DOS and even then it's tricky to get right.
12:36 <Beholder> AntiGulp: Message from kritixilithos at 2018-05-05 10:47 EDT: I started a new game of splicehack as a wizard, why do I have intrinsic teleportation (didn't eat or drink anything special)? (or at least, it appears to be that way)
12:36 <Beholder> AntiGulp: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-05-05 10:47 EDT: colored branch staircases, please!!! how am I supposed to know that this downstair below Medusa leads to the meme branch with "lol you just died" void dragons and stuff, instead of to the castle?
12:36 <Beholder> AntiGulp: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-05-05 10:59 EDT: ... great. You made a fallthrough bug in the engraving message for the wand of sonics, causing me to think it was a wand of polymorph. Please insert the missing break statement!
12:37 <AntiGulp> LarienTelrunya: The soldier zapping a shito... I have no idea on that.
12:37 <LarienTelrunya> AntiGulp: it made a poison cloud, maybe it was supposed to be a wand of poison (does such a thing exist)?
12:38 <AntiGulp> There's a wand of poison gas, maybe there's some sort of string error there? Time to delve into the code and find out.
12:38 <LarienTelrunya> and the fAâ╛Ç sounds to me like it tries to display its name after delobj() or similar has removed the object
12:41 <aosdict> AntiGulp: see 0b0e69f and 6080fdd in xnh for branch stair coloration code
12:42 <aosdict> (if you don't make them yellow then FIQ will complain at you about it unendingly)
12:42 <AntiGulp> Hmmmmmmm I'm trying to duplicate it and failing. My first guess was a wand of wonder, but I remember specifically not allowing wands of wonder for monsters because I was afraid of bugs like this.
12:42 * AntiGulp racks brains for solution
12:42 <AntiGulp> aosdict: Ooh, thank you. Definitely stealing that, its an excellent change.
12:43 <aosdict> sweet! got materials working to the point where a mithril dwarvish helm shows up and doesn't corrode in acid
12:43 <aosdict> hmm, what's left... finish rendering materials, material wishing, and glyph dependent on materials, I think
12:44 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Hlf Mal Non) wished for "3 blessed potions of gain level", on T:21662
12:45 <FIQ> aosdict: but consistency is nice D:
12:45 <jonadab> Grassy: Oh?  Interesting, I either missed or forgot that.
12:45 <aosdict> FIQ: Well, I'm not sure where we sit with the altars thing.
12:46 <aosdict> In NH3, it's clear that you can't expect white and gray _ to render differently, and you can't use libuncursed to get around it.
12:50 <AntiGulp> While I'm in mapglyph.c, I'll port over altar colors from xnethack because wow have I always wanted altar colors. I know this is a somewhat controversial, but is there an altar color standard at this point?
12:51 <jonadab> That was just being discussed.
12:51 <AntiGulp> [backscrolls] oops
12:52 <jonadab> We thought we had settled on black/gray/white, and then somebody claimed his terminal shows gray and white the same.
12:52 -!- Grassy is now known as Grasshopper
12:52 <jonadab> If we're going to change it, sooner is better than later.
12:52 <jonadab> Don't give players any more time to get used to the old way.
12:53 <jonadab> black/gray/yellow or red/gray/yellow is a possibility.  With probably magenta for moloch-aligned?
12:54 <jonadab> YASI:  deep unicorns.  Aligned to Moloch.
12:55 <Grasshopper> YASI: Rainbow unicorns
12:55 <aosdict> FIQ: if AntiGulp copies xnh altar colors, WHERE'S YOUR CONSISTENCY NOW? :P
12:55 <jonadab> Grasshopper: That sounds like it belongs in slex.
12:55 <LarienTelrunya> @le?rainbow unicorn
12:55 <Beholder> rainbow unicorn (u) | Lvl: 15 | Diff: 23 | Spd: 25 | Res: poison | Confers: poison | MR: 95 | Generates: special | AC: -12 | Attacks: 1d20 butt physical, 1d15 kick physical, 1d15 kick physical, 4d4 cast spell | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, herbivore
12:55 <Grasshopper> I'd be surprised ... 
12:55 <Grasshopper> if they didn't have them already...
12:55 <Grasshopper> but yes ^^
12:56 <kritixilithos> YASI: pegasus-unicorn hybrid, aka flying unicorns
12:56 <Grasshopper> wow they really kick butt
12:56 <aosdict> jonadab: I was the person who is claiming gray and white the same (in NH3)
12:56 <LarienTelrunya> @le?winged black unicorn
12:56 <Beholder> winged black unicorn (u) | Lvl: 4 | Diff: 8 | Spd: 24 | Res: poison | Confers: poison | MR: 70 | Generates: special | AC: 2 | Attacks: 1d12 butt physical, 1d6 kick physical | Alignment: -7 | Flags: genocidable, herbivore, flies, infravisible
12:56 <aosdict> because it uses default and bold default
12:56 <kritixilithos> wow what doesn't slex have :P
12:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Hlf Mal Non) wished for "blessed fixed amulet of drain resistance", on T:22645
12:57 <aosdict> kritixilithos: it doesn't have reconstituted dissolved undead potatoes
12:57 <aosdict> it only has dissolved undead potatoes
12:59 -!- riker has joined #hardfought
13:01 * kritixilithos is imagining Larien furiously adding reconstituted dissolved undead potatoes to slex
13:01 <AntiGulp> I'm going to use xnethack's for now since I'm running very low on time before I have to get back to work, but if it gets standardized I'll swap over asap.
13:03 <riker> already in slex kritixilithos 
13:03 <aosdict> kritixilithos: I can come up with adjectives faster than she can add monsters >:)
13:03 <riker> hm, is livelogging down or is the dnh binder quest just bugged
13:03 <riker> I just completed it but no msg
13:04 <aosdict> AntiGulp: You should also port the engraving patch at some point!
13:04 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Hlf Mal Non) became the Emissary of Elements, on T:23022
13:06 <AntiGulp> aosdict: I saw that in mapglyph actually, and I'm heavily considering it! I'm worried that it might make closets too easy to find though. I wonder if there's a way to modify it so they only show up on the map if stepped on.
13:07 <aosdict> AntiGulp: It's more involved than mapglyph. I don't think you're keeping up with tile consistency so you don't need to worry about that aspect, but I added them as a separate symbol.
13:07 <aosdict> And for me, the whole point was so that you could see them from a distance.
13:08 <aosdict> There should be some way to use the seen vectors to only show them after stepping on them though.
13:08 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Hlf Mal Non) killed the Kary, the Fiend of Fire, on T:23740
13:09 <aosdict> "f - a stone quarterstaff." \o/
13:09 <AntiGulp> aosdict: Ah, got it. I assumed they were using the same symbol as graves, but now I see the S_engraving.
13:09 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Hlf Mal Non) killed the Kraken, the Fiend of Water, on T:23819
13:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Hlf Mal Non) killed the Tiamat, the Fiend of Wind, on T:23867
13:10 <aosdict> Using " was a little controversial, but... we have SYMBOLS so if it's its own symbol, you can set S_engraving to something else and go away happy.
13:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Bin Hlf Mal Non), 1156786 points, T:23896, poisoned by an 
13:10 <riker> FUCK
13:10 <riker> i didn't konw i was ill
13:10 <aosdict> "poisoned by an"?
13:10 <riker> I was typuing too fast and my screen was too skinny
13:10 <riker> aosdict: monster spell by a dead monster I think
13:10 <riker> !lastgame
13:10 <Beholder> riker: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rikersan/dnethack/dumplog/1525483920.dnh.txt
13:10 <Beholder> riker: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/w/winsalot/slex/dumplog/1525531413.slex.txt
13:11 <riker> !tell Chris_ANG monster spell of sickness (not filth) seems to not have a monster in the death msg if you died after killing it
13:11 <Beholder> Will do, riker!
13:12 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
13:12 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ
13:12 <AntiGulp> Unfortunately have to head out for the weekend. I will continue my streak as the person who shows up too infrequently.
13:13 <AntiGulp> !K2 A new splicehack version is up with some handy bug fixes and interface fixes, pretty sure that it doesn't impact saves.
13:13 <aosdict> use !tell K2
13:13 <AntiGulp> !tell K2 A new splicehack version is up with some handy bug fixes and interface fixes, pretty sure that it doesn't impact saves.
13:13 <Beholder> Will do, AntiGulp!
13:13 <aosdict> we should totally add !K2 as a command though
13:14 <aosdict> !K2 fetch me a drink!
13:14 <AntiGulp> It was a typo lol
13:14 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:16 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought
13:17 <kritixilithos> aosdict: "The orc throws fiery ammonic primitive pseudomorphed reconstituted dissolved undead mouldy salted potatoes at you"
13:17 <aosdict> one AntiGulp leaves, one ais523 joins!
13:17 <aosdict> kritixilithos: I can totally see this being a thing.
13:17 <ais523> does Beholder have any messages for me?
13:17 <ais523> apparently not, that's a bit of a relief :-)
13:18 <ais523> the devteam mailing list is going way faster than usual for obvious reasons (people coming back into the game with 3.6.1 and finding bugs)
13:18 <aosdict> ais523: we were having a bit of a rousing discussion yesterday about altar colors
13:18 <ais523> there's a performance issue on Windows which appears to be Microsoft's fault but we're trying to figure out what causes it so we can work around it
13:19 <aosdict> NH4 has standardized on white/gray/black, but NH3 has... problems with white and gray _
13:19 <ais523> surely the best fix to this is to get a better rendering library ;-)
13:20 <aosdict> well it all began when I added yellow/gray/red/black altars and FIQ complained about standardization
13:23 -!- kritixilithos has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
13:23 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought
13:24 -!- Tariru_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:24 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] knavery (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 3157 points, T:5353, killed by a soldier ant
13:26 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 3833 points, T:3050, killed by a wand
13:31 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
13:37 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought
13:39 <FIQ> hi
13:39 <Beholder> Hello FIQ, Welcome to #hardfought
13:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1979 points, T:1763, killed by a kitten, while frozen by a monster's gaze
13:39 <FIQ> aosdict: NetHack4 doesn't colorize altars
13:39 <FIQ> only FIQHack and DynaHack of the NH4 crowd does
13:39 <FIQ> FIQHack, DynaHack, SporkHack, GruntHack, xNetHack
13:40 <FIQ> and possibly Un, not sure there
13:40 <FIQ> FIQHack and DynaHack use the same colors
13:40 <FIQ> it's based off some patch
13:40 <FIQ> K2 also took said patch but decided to arbitrarily change some colors around
13:41 <FIQ> *differently* in different variants
13:41 <aosdict> K2 wants every variant to be unique
13:42 <FIQ> aosdict: but I find differences for the sake of being different (and nothing else) is silly
13:42 <aosdict> yes, which is why *I* am fine with finding common ground here
13:42 <LarienTelrunya> It's intentional, that way a player is more likely to stick to one variant rather than switching back and forth. :D
13:42 <aosdict> I simply hold that white/gray/black is infeasible in NH3 and therefore shouldn't be standard
13:43 <FIQ> I respond to that with "fix your setup" :)
13:44 <aosdict> that's the same as telling raisse "well you should just use menustyle full"
13:44 <aosdict> it's not reasonable to expect players to change their otherwise fine font for the sake of telling altars apart
13:45 <FIQ> aosdict: yeah it was a non-serious response
13:45 <FIQ> I am considering changing lawful (but only lawful)
13:45 <FIQ> but only if I can get away with convincing bhaak to also change it
13:45 <FIQ> and there's no way I am going to get K2 to stay consistent
13:45 <FIQ> so I might as well not bother
13:45 <aosdict> if you change lawful to yellow, then the only discrepancy is that I think we have cha and una flipped?
13:45 <FIQ> yes
13:45 -!- riker has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
13:46 <aosdict> Since I wasn't going for white/gray/black, I'm not attached to having cha be black.
13:46 <FIQ> but aosdict
13:46 <aosdict> And I'm not entirely sure black _ are a good idea anyway
13:46 <FIQ> there are more variants that use the colors Dyna/FIQHack uses
13:47 <FIQ> which is why I'd like to get a conseus by *everyone* (including those of "dead" but still played variants)
13:47 <FIQ> before changing anything
13:48 <aosdict> Sure, I'm not changing anything either until you obtain some consensus
13:48 <aosdict> I'm okay with cha black and una red, but I'd prefer the other way around.
13:50 <ais523> the basic problem is that NetHack is inconsistent on how cha and una work
13:50 <[Demo]> una?
13:50 <ais523> unaligned
13:50 <aosdict> unaligned, i.e. Moloch.
13:50 <[Demo]> ohh
13:51 <[Demo]> not charisma
13:51 <ais523> which can also adjectivise as "evil", apparently, but I'm not sure what situation makes that happen
13:51 <[Demo]> i have no idea what the context here is just sat down lol
13:51 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
13:51 <ais523> [Demo]: color-coding the alignments
13:51 <ais523> this has all the makings of a massive bikeshed
13:51 <FIQ> for altars
13:51 <aosdict> ais523: still haven't really seen any way to make cha and una consistent again
13:52 <FIQ> aosdict: FWIW one reason for the fh/dyna colors is that it's consistent with unicorns
13:53 <ais523> ooh, I like consistency with unicorns
13:53 <ais523> does this mean that we can have red unicorns in Gehennom?
13:53 <aosdict> yes and this is great but we have evidence that in some fonts in NH3 white and gray u look different, BUT white and gray _ look identical.
13:53 * ais523 vaguely wonders what happens if you sacrifice a coaligned unicorn on an unaligned altar
13:53 <FIQ> ais523: it's rejected
13:54 <FIQ> attempted conversion if already converted, or to unaligned, is rejected
13:54 <ais523> aosdict: I would expect the white _ to be a pixel wider but otherwise the same
13:54 <ais523> that's not quite identical, though (although it's close enough that it may as well be)
13:54 <FIQ> ais523: but _ already takes up all possible space
13:54 <aosdict> ais523: Moloch yells "Suffer, infidel"
13:54 <FIQ> so how can it be wider
13:54 <FIQ> _
13:55 <aosdict> Yeah, and we really shouldn't expect one-pixel differences to register to players, even if they do exist
13:56 <FIQ> ais523: aosdict's terminal is astonishly shitty (no offense to aosdict, it just displays really bizarre behaviour at times)
13:56 <ais523> in general you have to blame "bold" meaning two unrelated things
13:56 <FIQ> it's gnome-terminal
13:56 <ais523> I use gnome-terminal too, it doesn't have this problem for me
13:56 <FIQ> one notable thing is, it doesn't like libuncursed with an unchanged pallet
13:56 <aosdict> FIQ: I think I may have given you the wrong impression of *something* yesterday
13:56 <FIQ> because it will use the darkgray color as the background for everything
13:57 <FIQ> making things nearly impossible to read
13:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed Croesus, on T:33937
13:57 <FIQ> also its gray is just thinner white
13:57 <FIQ> aosdict: I am mostly referring to this
13:58 <FIQ> https://i.imgur.com/xaRG71N.png
13:58 <FIQ> left is with uncursed default pallet
13:58 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 3005 points, T:3320, killed by a killer bee
13:58 <FIQ> right is terminal default (so unchanged)
13:58 <aosdict> FIQ: Note that those are the colors I configured. I don't think I ever *see* the dark gray color in normal operation.
13:58 <aosdict> Or at least, there are two dark grays defined, and I only ever see one.
13:59 <aosdict> Similarly there are two whites defined and I only ever see one
13:59 <FIQ> So what you're saying is not that your terminal is normal but is just configured in a dumb way?
13:59 <FIQ> by you?
13:59 <FIQ> why would you do that?
13:59 <FIQ> not sure if I understand
13:59 <aosdict> FIQ: No.
13:59 <aosdict> NH3 does not use the full range of colors.
13:59 <FIQ> aosdict: Right, I get NH3 being silly here
13:59 <aosdict> Instead of gray, it uses the "terminal default" which is a 17th color and which I have set to white.
13:59 <FIQ> But there is no reason for the FIQHack appearance
13:59 <FIQ> At all
13:59 <FIQ> It's really stupid
14:00 <FIQ> aosdict: This should really be addressed
14:00 <ais523> I'm going to have to give access to the 17th color in libuncursed2 because it's requested so much
14:00 <ais523> but it often acts oddly
14:00 <ais523> (actually there are 18 colors, as the 17th color looks different when used as a foreground and when used as a background)
14:00 <FIQ> ais523: Yes, please
14:01 <ais523> I'm using the names "clear" and "clear-contrast" in the docs
14:01 <FIQ> Some people want to use their terminal background
14:01 <FIQ> And I can't fault them for that
14:01 <aosdict> FIQ: I think the reason my "dark gray" is so light in FIQHack is because I actually use it for black objects in nethack. 
14:01 <FIQ> aosdict: but black objects in NH uses darkgray
14:01 <FIQ> color 8
14:01 <ais523> black objects in NetHack are color 8
14:01 <ais523> NH4's background is color 0
14:02 <FIQ> right
14:02 <aosdict> Can't really test anything right now, I'm in a bright environment
14:02 <ais523> black objects in NetHack4 are either color 8 or color 4
14:02 <FIQ> 4?
14:03 <ais523> the polyglot is intentionally slightly broken so that it will be color 8 only if it's sure it's a 16+-color terminal
14:03 <ais523> 4 is darkblue
14:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] Grasshopper (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) genocided master mind flayer, on T:33996
14:03 <FIQ> Isn't 4 yellow?
14:03 <FIQ> ah
14:03 <FIQ> ok
14:03 <ais523> yellow is 12
14:03 <ais523> err, 11
14:03 <FIQ> err, meant brown
14:03 <FIQ> but yeah
14:03 <FIQ> still wrong
14:05 <aosdict> actually I should change to a light profile so I can actually see the code I'm editing
14:06 <ais523> the reason NH4 forces a background color is actually that I couldn't even figure out how NetHack's colors are /meant/ to work on a light profile
14:06 * aosdict changes IRC terminal to light profile, it now looks awful
14:06 <FIQ> ais523: I think this might be why CLR_GRAY uses terminal fg color
14:07 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1084 points, T:1222, killed by a water moccasin
14:07 <FIQ> Would make more sense to have CLR_WHITE be terminal default though
14:07 <ais523> the best approach I've thought of is to have clear as background, and three of 0/7/8/15 (whichever three show up best against clear) as black/gray/white
14:08 <ais523> unfortunately, there are very few terminals where you can programmatically work out what color clear is
14:08 <ais523> xterm can do it I think
14:08 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
14:11 <jonadab> ais523: forcing background by default is correct, if you are forcing foreground.  The _default_ background should only be used with default foreground.
14:11 <jonadab> This is true for web design, applications programming, everything.
14:11 <jonadab> If your stuff breaks when the user has a certain default background configured, you are wrong and bad.
14:12 <ais523> huh, looks like gnome-terminal supports xterm's code too now
14:12 <ais523> OSC 11 ; ? ST
14:12 <jonadab> Interesting.
14:13 <ais523> as does konsole
14:13 <ais523> when did this happen :-D
14:13 <jonadab> Incidentally, the problem aosdict is having with _ in gnome-terminal is either new (wouldn't surprise me much; gnome gets worse and worse all the time) or specific to his configuration.
14:13 <ais523> as does urxvt (!)
14:13 <jonadab> Interesting.
14:13 <ais523> as does lxterm
14:14 <aosdict> jonadab: It is probably because of Monospace Regular.
14:14 <ais523> I think someone must have been going around and pestering all the terminal manufacturers
14:14 <ais523> at least on Linux
14:14 <jonadab> What happens on terminals that _don't_ support it?  Can you determine that and consider the answer inconclusive?
14:14 <aosdict> However, telling a nethack player their rather standard monospace font is bad for a nethack feature and they need to change it doesn't strike me as a good idea.
14:14 <jonadab> aosdict: No, it's not font specific, because the issue is color.  Older gnome-terminal definitely supported all 16 distinct colors out of the box.
14:14 <ais523> in theory OSC can do anything, but the form of the expected reply is so specific that it's very unlikely to happen by chance
14:14 <jonadab> The default palette isn't great, but it's not THAT bad.
14:15 <jonadab> gray is not equal to white.
14:15 <aosdict> jonadab: What if I approached the altar color issue from a position of: you might not want to have gray and white _ *anyway*, since they're close enough they have a very high likelihood of confusing players?
14:16 <ais523> perhaps we should recolor the unicorns to match the altars?
14:16 <jonadab> aosdict: That argument would apply to regular and bright versions of any color.
14:16 <jonadab> And to black and gray for that matter.
14:16 <aosdict> gold unicorn / gray unicorn / black unicorn?
14:17 <aosdict> jonadab: but most glyphs are more than 1 pixel tall
14:19 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
14:19 <jonadab> aosdict: If the colors are too similar, the colors are too similar, regardless of glyph size, IMO.
14:22 <FIQ> ais523 │ I think someone must have been going around and pestering all the terminal manufacturers
14:22 <FIQ> hmm
14:22 <FIQ> I wonder who that could be
14:23 <ais523> wasn't me
14:23 <ais523> it's the sort of thing I'd do but I haven't yet
14:24 <FIQ> ais523: but either way we can't really go forward as long as putty is entrenched as the go-to Windows ssh client
14:24 <FIQ> do you know how good WSL's ANSI escape support is?
14:27 <jonadab> I could test that; but I haven't.
14:28 <jonadab> (I can't do so _here_.  Would have to be home.)
14:28 <jonadab> Shall I make myself a note to test that tonight?
14:28 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 4871 points, T:2860, killed by a killer bee
14:29 <jonadab> (And if so, what tests shall I run, besides the obvious 16-, 256-, and 24-bit- color tests?
14:32 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
14:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible Juiblex, on T:38796
14:45 -!- noty has joined #hardfought
14:45 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought
14:48 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed Asmodeus, on T:39268
14:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible Baalzebub, on T:39278
14:50 -!- Mandevil has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
14:51 -!- Mandevil has joined #hardfought
14:51 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Mandevil] by ChanServ
14:51 -!- bug_sniper__ has joined #hardfought
14:51 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed Orcus, on T:39348
14:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:39432
14:55 -!- bug_sniper_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
14:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:39567
14:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) performed her first genocide (master mind flayer), on T:39576
15:12 -!- Tariru has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
15:20 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought
15:23 -!- bug_sniper__ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
15:24 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
15:27 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit]
15:29 <FIQ> !who
15:29 <Beholder> FIQ: [hdf-us] FIQ [slex] Nobbs [nh343] FIQ [fh] Lol [dnh] hypnotist [nh361] 
15:29 <Beholder> FIQ: [hdf-eu] AmyBSOD [slex] Tariru [slex] lynn [fh] 
15:31 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Lol (Wiz Dro Mal Neu), 2209 points, T:1626, killed by a dwarf
15:37 -!- Tangles has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
15:37 -!- Tangles has joined #hardfought
15:37 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles] by ChanServ
15:48 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] pugilist (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 23339 points, T:12448, quit
15:51 -!- bug_sniper__ has joined #hardfought
15:52 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Lol (Wiz Inc Mal Neu), 408 points, T:602, killed by a fox
15:55 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 4528 points, T:2625, killed by a white unicorn
15:56 <rld> <@Winsalot> LarienTelrunya: Is there a way to intentionaly enable hybridraces in curses? For me OPTIONS=race:hybridheretic didn't work I think
15:56 <rld> <@rikersan> yes
15:56 <rld> <@rikersan> curses interface is very bugged tho
15:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 16384 points, T:290, killed by a gnomish wizard's force bolt
15:56 <rld> <@rikersan> also you need to actually hit yes to using hybrid winsalot
15:56 <rld> <@rikersan> then select "use options file" under which race
15:57 <rld> <@rikersan> (fair warning - don't just hybrid heretic.  it's a painful starting stat decrease for kinda little benefit)
15:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Lol (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) averted death, on T:492
15:57 <rld> <@rikersan> !whereis lol
15:57 <Beholder> @rikersan: [hdf-us] Lol [dnh]: (Wiz Inc Mal Neu) T:450 The Dungeons of Doom level: 2
15:57 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Lol (Wiz Inc Mal Neu), 199 points, T:578, killed by a fox
15:57 <rld> <@Winsalot> Oh, heretic has downsides as well?
15:57 <rld> <@Winsalot> shit. Is there any hybrid race that makes the game easier?
15:57 <FIQ> doesn't all do?
15:58 <rld> <@Winsalot> some less than others
16:00 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Qi (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 14560 points, T:413, killed by a gnome king
16:01 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Lol (Wiz Inc Mal Neu), 112 points, T:338, killed by a jackal
16:10 <LarienTelrunya> rikersan: those stat reductions from hybridraces are a thing of the past
16:11 <LarienTelrunya> also I'm still afk actually, will be back later
16:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [dnh] Lol (Wiz Inc Mal Neu), 459 points, T:1142, killed by a gnome
16:19 <rld> <@Winsalot> !tell LarienTelrunya I'm doing fine 😃
16:19 <Beholder> Will do, @Winsalot!
16:19 <rld> <Winsalot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/442420135836516422/doing_fine.png
16:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] pugilist (Mon Hum Fem Cha), 2425 points, T:2711, quit
16:26 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:27 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought
16:32 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1]
16:33 -!- kritixilithos has quit [Quit: test]
16:42 -!- noty has joined #hardfought
16:50 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed]
16:50 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 9552 points, T:6739, killed by a mumak, while praying
16:53 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 167 points, T:313, killed by a jackal
16:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 253 points, T:558, killed by falling downstairs
16:59 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 77 points, T:413, killed by a fox
17:02 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 31 points, T:376, killed by a jackal, while fainted from lack of food
17:03 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 47 points, T:163, killed by a kobold zombie
17:05 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 112 points, T:94, killed by an Elvenking
17:17 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
17:25 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 1268 points, T:2290, killed by a giant ant
17:29 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
17:29 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:43 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
18:21 <rld> <@rikersan> !tell LarienTelrunya showed winsalot's dank meme to a friend, his only response was 'wait, what is that fork' lol
18:21 <Beholder> Will do, @rikersan!
18:28 <bouquet> sup
18:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:43513
18:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:43517
18:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) performed the invocation, on T:43538
18:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:43867
18:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:43876
18:56 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:43939
18:57 <aosdict> "Oops! The 5000 food rations drop to the floor!" o_O
19:02 <bouquet> what a mess
19:03 <aosdict> they filled the room and crushed me to death
19:04 <aosdict> "o - a silver long sword."
19:04 <aosdict> \o/
19:04 <aosdict> can wish for things now
19:04 <bouquet> what game are you playing that has silver long swords?
19:04 <aosdict> xnethack, baby
19:05 * aosdict is adding the object materials patch
19:05 <bouquet> can we do silver flails?
19:05 <aosdict> silver anything you want (that is a non-artifact)
19:06 <bouquet> how are you balancing that out? Seems kinda ultra powerful
19:06 <aosdict> and not things that are normally made of leather or cloth
19:06 <aosdict> bouquet: Normally you can only get a specific material on a specific object via wishing for it.
19:07 <aosdict> I also intend to do something with other materials so it's not just silver, silver, silver
19:07 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
19:07 <bouquet> one reason I love slashem is for the silver mace
19:07 <bouquet> great early priest weapon
19:07 <aosdict> yeah this is a smarter way of doing that
19:07 <bouquet> so you can only get the silver versions of things by wishing or are they going to be generated?
19:07 <aosdict> you don't have to define a separate object to be silver
19:07 <aosdict> they can randomly generate
19:08 <aosdict> and it's not just silver, other materials generate too
19:08 <bouquet> so what's the drawback going to be?
19:08 <bouquet> or should I just wait to read the patch notes?
19:08 <aosdict> ...none that I was planning
19:09 <aosdict> if you use a piece of gear for its material benefits, it can't be an artifact
19:09 <bouquet> can you add silver knuckledusters for monks, then?  Or is that too much?
19:09 <aosdict> so Excal is probably still better than a silver long sword against most things
19:09 <aosdict> hm you should be able to wish up silver gauntlets of power
19:10 <bouquet> omg
19:10 <aosdict> let me see if that actually registers as silver damage (it should)
19:10 <bouquet> I might finally be able to ascend a monk with weaponless conduct.
19:10 <aosdict> okay it does *not* check for glove silver damage (but it should
19:11 <bouquet> is this in git right now?
19:11 <aosdict> no
19:11 <aosdict> it is savebreaking and is big enough of a change that I will make it 0.2.0
19:11 <aosdict> and I've been rebasing some stuff so it's good to have it not pushed yet
19:12 <bouquet> I await the release with bated breath
19:12 <aosdict> heh, still need to do some more stuff
19:12 <aosdict> actually at this point I think it's just fixing glyph rendering
19:13 <bouquet> wish I could be useful, but my K&R training from a thousand years ago is apparently old hat and not welcome any more. Plus I'm rusty as shit with C
19:13 <aosdict> oh and the changes to weight and AC and stuff
19:14 <bouquet> most fun I had with xnh was changing the minimum thrown daggers to 8 so I could machinegun mobs with my rogue.
19:19 <FIQ> if I add object materials
19:19 <FIQ> I will probably not make it wishable
19:19 <FIQ> for similar reason as to obj properties
19:19 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:46112
19:20 <bouquet> Hi FIQ
19:20 <bouquet> I'm giving your variant a serious try now.
19:20 <FIQ> Hi bouquet 
19:20 <FIQ> Are you enjoying it?
19:20 <aosdict> FIQ: Hmm, that's a good point, don't allow the player to plan certain materials into their asc kit
19:20 <bouquet> Yes. Except bad guys keep killing me.
19:20 <bouquet> dunno if you can fix that
19:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:46266
19:20 <bouquet>  ;)
19:21 <bouquet> interface is what I loved about the old 3.4.3 versions.  Super awesome.
19:21 <FIQ> old 3.4.3 version
19:21 <FIQ> I guess you mean curses interface?
19:21 <bouquet> ya
19:22 <FIQ> I made some improvements to the NH3 curses UI too which you can see if playing non-3.6 non-NH4 variants
19:22 <aosdict> FIQ: I'm conflicted between "making them not wishable is probably better for game balance" and "BUT IT WOULD BE SO AWESOME"
19:22 <bouquet> though, I play so quickly with the newer minimalist 3.6.* versions I'm used to that
19:22 <FIQ> Most notably the sidebar
19:22 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:46485
19:23 <FIQ> aosdict: dragonhide cloak of magic resistance
19:23 <bouquet> I especially love the message history box.  That's my only gripe with the 3.6.* line.  Have to hit space for --more-- too often.
19:23 <aosdict> FIQ: Dragonhide isn't valid on anything.
19:23 <FIQ> DSM?
19:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:46728
19:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) entered the Planes, on T:46732
19:23 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:46733
19:23 <aosdict> FIQ: let me clarify: Dragonhide isn't valid on anything that can receive object materials.
19:24 <FIQ> ah
19:25 <aosdict> currently the best you could get from a cloak of magic resistance is maybe to make it leather
19:25 <bouquet> hypnotist - hurry up and ascend! I need to go to dinner.
19:26 <aosdict> ouch, rodney kill on 46728 right before exiting the dungeon?
19:26 <FIQ> might as well just have entered the Planes at that point
19:26 <bouquet> that's efficiency for ya
19:26 <nooodle> bouquet :) ok i'll try
19:28 <bouquet> omg, gremlins on the plane of water. What a mess
19:30 <nooodle> no guardian angel :''
19:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed partially eaten chickatrice corpse", on T:47021
19:31 <nooodle> oh wait never mind, i have one
19:33 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed Death, on T:47071
19:33 <nooodle> "death zaps a wand of create monster" ok interesting move
19:34 <bouquet> he's too chicken to fight you himself
19:34 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed Death, on T:47096
19:35 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed Death, on T:47111
19:35 <bouquet> I've also seem tengu's read scrolls of teleportation
19:36 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed Famine, on T:47138
19:36 <aosdict> "Death zaps a wand of death!"
19:39 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Sam Hum Fem Law), 3349172 points, T:47179, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/h/hypnotist/nh361/dumplog/1525378073.nh361.txt
19:39 <nooodle> !asc hypnotist
19:39 <Beholder> nooodle: [hdf-us] hypnotist has ascended 5 times in 11 games (45.45%):  nh361:5 (62.50%)
19:40 <aosdict> grats nooodle 
19:40 <nooodle> tyty
19:40 <nooodle> streak hype
19:40 <aosdict> !streak nooodle 
19:40 <Beholder> aosdict: [hdf-us] No streaks for nooodle on this server.
19:40 <Beholder> aosdict: [hdf-eu] No streaks for nooodle on this server.
19:40 <aosdict> !streak hypnotist
19:40 <Beholder> aosdict: [hdf-us] hypnotist Max[nh361]: 2 (2018-04-24 - 2018-04-30). Current[nh361]: 2 (since 2018-05-02).
19:40 <Beholder> aosdict: [hdf-eu] No streaks for hypnotist on this server.
19:47 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 86 points, T:365, killed by a kobold zombie
19:55 <jonadab> FIQ, and anyone else interested in WSL's support for ANSI escape codes:  not sure what _else_ it can do, but it apparently understands 24-bit color codes:  https://i.imgur.com/pA703Cv.png
19:58 <jonadab> !tell ais523 WSL can handle 24-bit color codes:  https://i.imgur.com/pA703Cv.png
19:58 <Beholder> Will do, jonadab!
19:58 <aosdict> "Alibaba offers 76,077 'density of leather' products."
19:58 <aosdict> Does it now.
20:02 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought
20:04 -!- Tariru has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:04 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Ran Elf Mal Cha), 103451 points, T:44219, killed by an air elemental
20:05 <hothraxxa> i zapped a wand of teleportation at it. it did not go away :(
20:15 <aosdict> man sgrunt was really just throwing these numbers out there when he tried to do relative material weights
20:30 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 6291 points, T:5931, killed by a lynx, while unconscious from rotten food
20:37 <aosdict> hey, someone tell me if I'm being stupid with this - https://gist.github.com/copperwater/f69bcf4a837225de326a6e050965f359
20:56 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought
20:56 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ
21:04 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:04 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
21:05 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought
21:05 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ
21:06 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 923 points, T:1785, killed by a dwarf
21:07 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought
21:07 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ
21:10 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
21:10 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 284 points, T:403, killed by the ghost of Inky
21:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 65 points, T:105, killed by a fox
21:11 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 4 points, T:17, killed by a sewer rat
21:13 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 144 points, T:257, killed by an Elvenking
21:15 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [fh] Zee (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the ghost of Li, the former Excursionist, on T:9436
21:16 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 71 points, T:357, killed by a jackal, while fainted from lack of food
21:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 93 points, T:254, killed by a jackal
21:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 85 points, T:277, killed by a jackal
21:20 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 100 points, T:102, killed by a jackal
21:21 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
21:38 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 1889 points, T:2906, killed by a giant bat
21:43 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 558 points, T:796, killed by a gecko
21:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [un] ranlhach2 (Con Orc Mal Cha), 882 points, T:1344, killed by a coyote
21:58 -!- nooodle has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
21:59 -!- tacco| has quit []
22:28 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
22:30 <Grassy> "Poes eats a doppelganger corpse. Poes turns into a hill giant!". Oh Noes Poes!
22:55 -!- MysteryMyra has joined #hardfought
22:59 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought
23:04 -!- MisteryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
23:04 -!- MiseryMyra has joined #hardfought
23:11 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought
23:11 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ
23:11 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
23:18 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought
23:23 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
23:35 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought
23:35 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ
23:37 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]