00:13 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 00:13 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 00:13 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:13 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 00:15 -!- MTF has joined #hardfought 00:31 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 00:32 -!- stenno is now known as Guest51568 00:32 -!- Tarmunora has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32 -!- Tarmunora has joined #hardfought 00:36 -!- Guest51568 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:57 -!- Pavel has joined #hardfought 00:57 -!- Pavel has quit [Client Quit] 00:58 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 01:00 <@Pavel> So is it fixed, or..? 01:19 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:29 -!- Tarmunora has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:32 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 01:32 -!- stenno is now known as Guest21559 01:36 -!- Guest21559 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:37 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:42 . 01:42 LarienTelrunya: Message from FIQ at 2018-04-29 16:46 EDT: your whereis file is lacking dname which confuses Beholder 01:42 LarienTelrunya: Message from K2 at 2018-04-29 17:25 EDT: slex 2.2.2 is on hdf-us - you'll need to tweak the data in the whereis file (see FIQ's msg) 01:42 LarienTelrunya: Message from bhaak at 2018-04-29 18:49 EDT: kruzifixnochamol, how did you manage to break wishing for magic lamps in wizmode? 01:42 !whereis BSOD2 01:43 !help 01:43 LarienTelrunya: https://www.hardfought.org/nethack 01:43 !commands 01:43 LarienTelrunya: available commands are !help !ping !time !pom !hello !booze !beer !potion !tea !coffee !whiskey !vodka !rum !tequila !scotch !goat !lotg !d(1-1000) !(1-50)d(1-1000) !8ball !rng !role !race !variant !tell !source !lastgame !lastasc !asc !streak !rcedit !scores !sb !setmintc !whereis !players !who !commands 01:43 !whereis AmyBSOD 01:43 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] AmyBSOD is not currently playing on this server. 01:43 !whereis BSOD2 01:43 wtf 01:43 !whereis BSOD 01:43 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] BSOD is not currently playing on this server. 01:43 FIQ: how do I add this "dname" thing to whereis? 01:44 !tell K2 thanks! I'll ask FIQ how to make the whereis thing work :) 01:44 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 01:45 !tell bhaak ? wishing for a magic lamp works for me... maybe the RNG decided that in your test game, magic lamps are one of the item types that never get generated? 01:45 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 01:55 !tell mcw wow that level editor video looks very fleecy! ♥ 01:55 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:13 Evil Patch idea: trying to read a cursed spellbook can do evil things to you related to the spell contained in the book. If it was finger of death, guess what can happen. :P 02:23 !tell jonadab what is 997.txt? it is 0 byte in size... was there supposed to be something in there? 02:23 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:33 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 02:33 -!- stenno is now known as Guest79992 02:33 <@Winsalot> Hi Amy. Any hibt to what implant of terror does? 02:34 <@Winsalot> I put it on and it autocursed:) 02:35 Makes you a terrorist IRL. 02:35 yo Winsalot! implants are notoriously hard to identify, all of them have a chance of autocursing, and if your implants skill is too low you can't remove them even when they're not cursed! 02:36 wand of enlightenment is your friend :D 02:36 also wtf why is your terminal so small 02:36 it's so small in fact, that the bottom status line overflows and disappears; you'd have to make it 80x25 to see the second line (currently you have 80x24) 02:36 <@Winsalot> Im on my phone right now :) 02:36 Tripped small terminal trap? 02:37 LarienTelrunya: 80x24 is the standard! 02:37 Mandevil: yes, but for slex, 80x25 is the best size (in tty mode at least) 02:37 LarienTelrunya: Good god. 02:37 -!- Guest79992 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:38 LarienTelrunya: I didn't think much of SLEX before, but... 02:38 why? do you prefer vanilla's "lol the Ill status isn't displayed because it fails to wrap around" method? :P 02:38 LarienTelrunya: 80x24 is the standard terminal size since the time of DEC terminals or even earlier. 02:38 I am referring to you not conforming to standards. 02:38 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 02:38 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 02:38 if you play vanilla, even a 80x25 terminal won't show all the statuses 02:39 LarienTelrunya: Do you realize that when you open terminal window in basically any system, you will get 80x24 one? 02:39 also, slex works on 80x24, you'll just have to turn off some options that put extra strings in the status line 02:42 BTW, you can detect terminal size and adjust what you show. 02:42 Or even show "terminal too small" message to the user. 02:44 hmm, I guess that would be a way 02:44 But you should support 80x24 anyway. 02:45 Because think of the people who play on their DEC VT100 terminals! 02:45 What are they supposed to do? 02:45 80x24 is supported! It's just not the optimal way to play slex. 02:45 <@Winsalot> So, how to I train my implants skill? 02:46 The status line disappears only if it gets too long, so if you turn off everything that adds extra strings there, it will usually not disappear on 80x24. 02:46 Winsalot: well first you should check whether you have the skill at all; it is trained passively by wearing an implant, but it goes faster if the implant actually blocks a monster attack 02:46 if you don't have the skill, removing it will be very difficult and probably require a nymph, unless you can rust it off or something 02:47 however, we don't actually know if it has a bad effect; it might actually be beneficial 02:47 oh wait, those gray # look suspicious to me 02:47 might be a grayout implant or something? 02:48 <@Winsalot> Hm. 02:48 <@Winsalot> Unigenmolds genocided themselves 🤔 02:48 <@Winsalot> I think I might have stepped on another nasty traps 02:49 <@Winsalot> For a while I used high heels that give 7AC but generate mire traps 02:49 well, the implant might be giving a nasty trap effect when worn 02:49 the "implant of terror" requires grand master implants skill to display its effect 02:49 and the effects are randomized per game, so I can't tell you what the effect is 02:51 @Winsalot They realized they live in a SLEX game. 02:54 <@Winsalot> Hm, I guess its time to visit that nymp infested brantch 02:55 oh you do have the implants skill after all! 02:57 <@Winsalot> I think this implant could be giving me aggravate monster 02:57 <@Winsalot> Cos I was visited by lots of elementals recently 02:57 if your implants skill is basic, you can remove a blessed implant at the cost of max HP; at skilled, you can remove an uncursed one at the cost of max HP or a blessed one with no penalties 02:57 (at unskilled you can't remove them at all) 03:00 <@Winsalot> Or I could just visit nymphs and gwt it removed for the cost of sex :) 03:00 LarienTelrunya: D-: 03:00 bhaak: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-04-30 01:45 EDT: ? wishing for a magic lamp works for me... maybe the RNG decided that in your test game, magic lamps are one of the item types that never get generated? 03:01 -!- syrinxcultist has joined #hardfought 03:01 Winsalot: yes; be sure to drop everything else first to make sure the nymph steals the implant 03:05 -!- syrinxcultist has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6] 03:12 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:19 LarienTelrunya: I don't know NH3 03:19 look atotr NH3 whereis patces 03:20 hi FIQ! well I took it from dnethack, so I thought it would be good enough, but apparently not... hmm 03:20 !whereis BSOD21 03:20 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] BSOD21 is not currently playing on this server. 03:20 !whereis BSOD2 03:20 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] BSOD2 is not currently playing on this server. 03:20 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-eu] BSOD2 [dnh]: No details available 03:20 what? dnethack on hdf doesn't have whereis at all?! 03:20 !whereis BSOD2 03:20 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] BSOD2 [dnh]: No details available 03:21 !whereis BSOD2 03:21 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] BSOD2 [gh]: (Hea Gno Mal Neu) T:7 The Dungeons of Doom level: 1 03:21 might want to look at the grunthack implementation I guess 03:21 did K2 already say "implement whereis! *bundlebundlebundle* :D" to Chris? :D 03:23 what does prime cursed do 03:23 Cris tends to be afk 03:23 90% chance to resist uncursing attempts, and will gradually curse your other items if you have at least one prime cursed item in open inventory 03:33 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 03:34 -!- stenno is now known as Guest72323 03:37 <@Winsalot> Prime cursed is slex feature? 03:38 -!- Guest72323 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:39 yeah 03:39 in fact, there's several different types of curses in slex: heavily/prime/blackbreath/evil/morgothian cursed, as well as sticky cursed 03:39 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 03:42 I haven't been noticeably ill besides the occasional cold for like 2-3 years 03:43 then this year rolls around 03:43 I don't feel well... again 03:43 already been unwell for 4 weeks this year so far... 03:43 FIQ: did you accidentally eat a tin of green slime? 03:43 must have done something like that before I went to thailand yeah 03:43 or maybe I got it there 03:44 YASI: blessed potions of booze burn so much when drunk that they can boil away slime, i.e. quaffing one will cure sliming. 03:44 already failed 2 exams so far due to this 03:44 would rather not have to increase my uni time frther if I can avoid it 03:45 *further 03:46 oh, do you also have those obnoxious deadlines at the uni? I always hated them like the plague 03:46 well I do, but this is exams specifically 03:46 I was ill in the smack middle of one a few months ago 03:46 and failed another indirectly due to the same illness making me miss out on a bunch of stuff 03:46 s/a few/2/ 03:47 damn, that sucks... do you not get a second chance when you miss the first date? 03:47 I get infinite chances 03:47 But it means having to take longer uni time 03:47 and potentially redo curses 03:47 *courses 03:48 oh, so you lose half a year every time? that also sucks :( 03:48 Not each time since you can stack more than 1 course per semester :P 03:48 but yeah 03:49 anyway now is a "good" time to get unwell, I don't miss out too much if I get well within a week 03:51 * LarienTelrunya hands FIQ a potion of full healing and a blessed +5 unicorn horn 03:51 thanks 03:52 oh man I just looked at splicehack's monst.c and I absolutely want to implement them... but slex is officially on save freeze now so I have to wait 2 whole months :( 03:58 it hurts, doesn't it 03:58 ;p 03:58 having freezes are useful 03:58 lets you hunt down bugs 03:58 so you don't end up with situations like the fiasco that was the first Tariru ascension 04:02 yeah but... my "stuff I still want to implement" list is like 40 pages long at this time :P 04:09 <@Winsalot> Amy, have you ever thought about "Good Patch Idea" instead of evil one? 04:10 <@Winsalot> Like adding multiple ways that items could be blessed 04:10 slex does have some nice patch ideas ;) 04:10 LarienTelrunya: wand of magic mapping reveals the map 100%? 04:11 good to know, might be a useful wish target 04:11 FIQ: yes, and it's probably too powerful :P 04:11 yes, something that reduces tedium is definitely too powerful for slex ... 04:11 one such wand equals possibly dozens of scrolls of magic mapping if you can keep charging it 04:14 hmm 04:14 FIQHack added full map discovery at all times in easymode 04:14 maybe I should make it into an intrinsic 04:14 the way slex currently operates is spell < wand/scroll/potion, maybe I should make it so that spell < wand < scroll/potion, because one wand usually gives many uses of the same effect that a scroll/potion will give 04:14 and add it to #toggledetect in wizmode 04:21 -!- puck_ has joined #hardfought 04:25 FIQ: hmm... I'm just looking at FIQhack's whereis implementation, can that be abused to find out whether you have a real amulet of yendor? or is Uhave_amulet set to true if you have a fake, too? 04:26 it can be "abused" that way yes 04:26 because finding out if you have the real or fake one is so hard 04:26 I never considered it a problem 04:26 neither did anyone else who implemented whereis 04:28 !tell K2 slex-whereis should have a "player" and "dname" field now *fleece bundle* ♥ 04:28 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 04:29 !tell K2 the reason why they were missing is because I took the implementation from dnethack which didn't have them either (I just incorrectly assumed all non-slex variants have a fully functional whereis :D) 04:29 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 04:34 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 04:35 -!- stenno is now known as Guest37213 04:37 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:39 -!- Guest37213 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:39 -!- mcw[alking has joined #hardfought 04:42 -!- mcw[alking has quit [Client Quit] 04:51 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 04:51 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 04:51 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 04:51 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 04:57 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:09 LarienTelrunya: https://pastebin.com/qNA9V3fL 05:09 bhaak: WTF 05:10 LarienTelrunya: latest master, wizard mode wishing for "magic lamp". same location in name_to_mon if trying to generate "mother hydra" 05:10 do you get that when wishing for other objects, too? 05:10 yes 05:11 I guess I get it for all objects, as it goes over all monster at src/mondata.c:602. 05:11 ugh... I fear this is the old %s bug raising its head again :( 05:11 if I try go generate a snow ant, it works 05:12 I guess I should rename the monsters that have %s as part of their name 05:12 you can probably generate "Rat-Man with mega-strong shield" but not "janitor unbeliever" 05:12 the good thing is that the bug is limited to wizmode, the bad thing is that the bug exists at all 05:13 hmm, let's see when it crashes if I add a pline("i: %3d mname %s\n", i, mons[i].mname); in there 05:14 my guess is that it crashes at "%s Rat-Man", and that I'll have to rename all monsters that have %s in their name; hopefully that won't break saves 05:14 it crashes in the strlen though. Why should there %s matter? 05:15 strlen? you mean because some monster name is too long? 05:15 so maybe there's a buffer being overflowed? 05:16 na, I think mname is nil 05:17 it might also be https://github.com/SLASHEM-Extended/SLASHEM-Extended/issues/19 05:18 yes, if accessing their name is the issue, it could be this 05:18 -!- mcw[orking has joined #hardfought 05:18 it crashes at index 2857 05:19 PM_UNKNOWN_MIMIC_X 05:19 yep, it is the bug in that issue; try compiling with STUPIDRANDOMMONSTERBUG enabled in config.h, maybe that will fix it :) 05:20 'mornin' y'all 05:20 yo mcw[orking! your level editor video looks very fleecy! ♥ 05:21 LarienTelrunya: thanks! 05:21 LarienTelrunya: will do some more work on it tonight if I don't go dancing. 05:21 Need to write the region overlay# 05:21 and run a few more .des through it to iron out issues 05:22 is it true that you will be stealing levels from slex for tubhack? :) 05:22 At the very least for inspiration 05:22 Mandevil: tbh if a game isn't optimised for a single line tape ticker 05:22 Mandevil: I don't want to play it! 05:28 -!- mcw[orking has quit [Quit: *poof*] 05:35 LarienTelrunya: are you changing mname somewhere in an unsafe way? 05:35 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 05:36 u_init.c changes the mname of certain monsters 05:36 -!- stenno is now known as Guest98601 05:36 rrandommimic->mname = u.strandommimic; 05:36 actually: sprintf(buf, generate_garbage_string() ); (void) strncpy(u.strandommimic, buf, sizeof(buf) ); rrandommimic->mname = u.strandommimic; 05:37 maybe generate_garbage_string() somehow fails (returning an empty string)? 05:38 hmm, now, there is a value in it. 05:38 *no 05:39 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:40 -!- Guest98601 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:48 LarienTelrunya: why on earth would you even name monsters %s something? 05:48 it's like you uwere begging for issues 05:48 *you were 05:48 -!- MiseryMyra has joined #hardfought 05:49 it's a Castle of the Winds reference, but I fear I'll have to change them :( 05:50 LarienTelrunya: yes, that it is most likely the issue. I just verified that it doesn't crash with a new game, only with a saved game. 05:50 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:50 ah, so the names aren't being saved correctly for some reason 05:50 or maybe not restored correctly 05:54 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1] 05:55 I'm compiling now with STUPIDRANDOMMONSTERBUG. might only take a week or so 05:56 :D 05:57 the names are just pointers that say "over there is the name of this monster". if you don't save them, it's obvious that you can't find them on restore :-) 05:57 yes, but I do save them, they work on windows and also on the public servers 05:58 it's only some specific unices that seem to have trouble 05:59 hmm... maybe restore.c would have to be changed to make it work correctly 05:59 in fact, I think there's an obvious solution that would make it work correctly on all platforms 06:01 <[Demo]> just make ur game super stable so it doesnt need to ever restore :P 06:01 are you sure it's restoring them correctly on those other platforms? maybe you just spew out random memory there. after all, with what generate_garbage_string() produces it is hard to tell :-) 06:02 it does, I verified it by spawning one, saving and restoring; it still had the same name after that 06:04 bhaak: but it shouldn't parse format strings on monster names? 06:06 FIQ: it doesn't if you do pline("%s", monstername). it's only an issue if you do pline(monstername) 06:06 Why would you do that? 06:06 but then you get a format string warning anyway. not that Amy cares :-) 06:07 heh 06:07 I did tell LarienTelrunya to heed her warnings at some point 06:07 Guess she only have herself to blame here :P 06:07 btw bhaak 06:07 why would you do pline(monstername)? because vanilla had that until at least 3.4.3 06:07 aosdict and I was talking about fakewiz the other day 06:08 aosdict was suggesting that wiztower would have a normal entrance 06:08 what are your thoughts? 06:08 rather tahn a random portal location 06:08 oh, I mean, you have the same issue if you do seomthing like pline(monstername + " hits " + you) 06:09 yeah, dropping fakewiz would be one of my first thought, too, for a gehennom redesign. it's more historical than anything else 06:36 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 06:36 -!- stenno is now known as Guest21146 06:41 -!- Guest21146 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:53 !tell K2 pushed change: removed fakewiz as their own special levels 06:53 Will do, FIQ! 06:54 they remain on existing saves, but not otherwise 06:54 old games will retroactively have their level designs change to account for new wiztower entry 07:03 [hdf-us] [fh] Clarembaut IV (puck) (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 65634 points, T:22959, killed by a zruty 07:06 [Demo]: you're confusing restore and recover 07:14 hi 07:14 Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought 07:14 K2: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-04-30 01:44 EDT: thanks! I'll ask FIQ how to make the whereis thing work :) 07:14 K2: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-04-30 04:28 EDT: slex-whereis should have a "player" and "dname" field now *fleece bundle* ♥ 07:14 K2: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-04-30 04:29 EDT: the reason why they were missing is because I took the implementation from dnethack which didn't have them either (I just incorrectly assumed all non-slex variants have a fully functional whereis :D) 07:14 K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-04-30 06:53 EDT: pushed change: removed fakewiz as their own special levels 07:15 hi K2! the additions to whereis functionality are in the slex master branch; please let me know if there's still something missing 07:16 did you add amulet 07:16 beholder needs that too 07:17 ok will address all of that while i'm at work 07:17 headed out, see you soon 07:17 see you K2 07:17 FIQ: why? 07:17 LarienTelrunya: why are you asking me why Beholder needs it? 07:17 I didn't create Beholder 07:18 slex makes it more difficult to tell whether you have the amulet in-game, so the ability to "cheat" by using whereis is... suboptimal 07:18 or rather, makes it more difficult to tell whether you have the real amulet 07:18 clairvoyance 07:18 spell draining 07:18 bagging 07:18 identifying 07:18 who cares 07:18 just add it 07:18 you can't bag the fake in slex :P but yeah, the other methods work 07:19 FIQ: you can start thinking about how the "garden" of the real tower should look like. I don't think a simple maze is adequate for Rodney :) 07:19 bhaak: one thing I was considering was changing the zoo into something else 07:20 perhaps one of the new fancy special rooms 07:34 aosdict: I think the lack of seperation between room edges allows levels to "fail" to generate a full maze (very rarely) 07:37 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 07:37 -!- stenno is now known as Guest65141 07:38 in case something like this happens: http://home.fiq.se/maze_failure.txt 07:40 what nh lvls r supposed to be deserts? 07:40 the duali oasis i guess 07:42 how come this doesn't crash the wiki anymore? https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Monster_(Slash%27EM_Extended) 07:42 -!- Guest65141 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:42 crashed stenno 07:43 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 07:44 hide all yo bugs 07:44 the bug sniper is here 07:44 what bugs 07:44 i got none 07:46 FIQ: it got rolled back to before all the monsters got added 07:47 yeah but what is the point of having the article then 07:47 LarienTelrunya: one thing you could do 07:47 is split up by letter 07:47 Monster (SLASH'EM Extended)/A 07:47 wow, that would mean spamming the wiki with slex pages :D 07:47 etc 07:48 you can put them in your userspace 07:48 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Yeenoghu, on T:31519 07:48 yeah, that would be necessary because we don't want to turn the regular wiki into slexwiki 07:48 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:48 most of us, anyway :p 07:53 how degenerate is it for a variant to make a race that takes double damage to a certain element? 07:53 that is not degenerate 07:54 ok. slex does it i think and slex is pretty degenerate and i want to avoid doing the bad things that slex does 07:54 slex does everything 07:54 if you don't want to do anything slex does, you make no game at all :-) 07:54 LarienTelrunya: when is cartographer role 07:55 slex nerfs item destruction 07:55 FIQ: what would that do? get automatic magic mapping? :D 07:55 so clearly what we all should do 07:55 is buffing it 07:55 Demo_: which race do you mean? 07:55 LarienTelrunya: it's a splicehack role 07:56 who draws power from scrolls 07:56 scrolls aren't always used up for them 07:56 oh? somehow I missed that, I only saw cartomancer which apparently uses card decks 07:56 oh yeah 07:56 cartomancer 07:56 not cartographer 07:56 lol 07:57 cartographer sounds more like a conduct and junethack achievement 08:00 i have no idea 08:01 hmm i kinda like sheol 08:02 LarienTelrunya: what is a "Monsterl" 08:02 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Monster_(Slash%27EM_Extended) 08:05 uhh, no idea :P somehow got introduced in https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Monster_(Slash%27EM_Extended)&diff=prev&oldid=94033 08:05 sounds like a German diminutive of "monster" :P 08:11 -!- puck_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:12 -!- puck_ has joined #hardfought 08:12 -!- stenno_ has joined #hardfought 08:15 FIQ: I thought I fixed that maze failure. 08:15 Let me check the logic again. 08:17 aosdict: what you do is ensure that you place walkmaze in a non-room spot 08:17 what I link above is a non-room spot 08:17 that just happens to be enclosed by rooms 08:17 so walkmaze wouldn't get anywhere 08:17 FIQ: There are checks against room intersection though. 08:18 -!- nooodle has joined #hardfought 08:18 I thought that it was impossible for rooms to generate diagonally touching like that. 08:18 see comment at "Does it intersect with an existing room?" 08:18 aosdict: do you light up room walls? 08:18 ...how is that relevant? 08:19 because I've seen lit areas seperated with a single line of dark path 08:19 and I assumed room walls wasn't lit 08:19 Can someone zap me with a wand of polymorph? I would like to temporarily be something else 08:19 so when the wall destruction happened, that would ensue 08:19 actually 08:19 easier check 08:19 FIQ: It should not be possible for two rooms to generate like ...|... 08:19 let's just disable wall destruction 08:19 see if I can see intersections 08:21 ok the behavior of inside_room is to include the walls of that room. 08:21 just checked 08:21 And the maze checking code checks the walls of the new room. 08:21 looks like there is no intersection walls 08:21 So it's indeed impossible for any walls of two rooms to intersect, even at corners. 08:21 btw I was wondering 08:22 does your room placer need stone to work? 08:22 (I sort of *want* to allow adjacent rooms, but didn't figure out how to guarantee a complete maze. 08:22 because if so 08:22 wouldn't it be possible to just 08:22 add a switch to mazewalk 08:22 to include room creation 08:23 AFAICT stone is not required, it just slaps the room down 08:25 actually I just checked 08:25 I don't see a stone check in the room creation 08:25 however, you do initialize the map with stone 08:25 this code runs after the maze walls have been filled too 08:25 so that rooms don't object to being placed on it 08:26 which means either that init is pointless 08:26 or I am missing something 08:28 mazewalk requires that walls be filled in a specific pattern of wall and stone (and having ROOM tiles prevents it from hopping into a room since it doesn't respect those) 08:30 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:43 FIQhack updated (us and eu) 08:51 K2: I'm wondering if you would be able to recover a lost game again for me? Same thing happened. Ssh session stopped responding, I killed the session, expecting that when I logged in again I'd get the 10 second countdown (this is what it always used to do) and instead I got character creation. User hypnotist, 3.6.1 08:52 why is SIGHUP not working? 08:53 don't know. Maybe it is. I just used the default signal, sigterm, not thinking much about it. It's always worked before. 08:53 can we confirm that hardfought is seeing this as a hangup and not some weird macro that includes "#quit"? 08:54 if it quit, wouldn't it appear as a loss? 08:54 !asc hypnotist 08:54 nooodle: [hdf-us] hypnotist has ascended 1 times in 1 games (100.00%): nh361:1 (100.00%) 08:54 K2: reproduced in xnh 08:55 is SAFE_HANGUP not defined? 08:55 err SAFERHANGUP 08:55 specifically what I did: ssh to hardfought, restore my (early) xnh game, find the process id of the ssh, kill that process, then reopen ssh to hdf 08:55 in my sshconfig I have `ServerAliveInterval 60` but it seems to have no effect 08:56 nooodle: It's not a client setting problem, since this is happening to me 08:57 aosdict: press enter, then ~, then . 08:57 to forcibly hangup an ssh session 08:57 FIQ: I don't need to since I can just kill it manually. 08:57 but it's easier 08:57 :P 08:58 won't the nethack process interpret that though 08:58 yes 08:59 EPI: have menus that encourage you to type this in 09:00 ok so SAFERHANGUP seems to be defined 09:00 aosdict: on hdf? 09:00 on my copy 09:00 yes 09:00 you know what also was defined 09:00 meaning I didn't comment it out or anything 09:00 the sane config errors define 09:00 which wasn't on hdf 09:01 !whereis k2 09:01 K2: [hdf-us] k2 [slex]: (Bar Ang Fem Law) T:50 The Dungeons of Doom level: 2 09:02 ok so amy fixed that 09:02 nooodle yeah give me a minute i can recover your game 09:02 K2: thank you! 09:03 K2: FIQ wants to know if SAFERHANGUP is defined on hdf. 09:03 ok one sec 09:03 What bugs me is that feature was originally implemented for the days of serial consoles, and continues to be useful despite how technology has marched on 09:06 -!- AntiGulp has joined #hardfought 09:09 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:09 nooodle your game is there, normal save 09:09 nothing to recover 09:09 try logging in please 09:09 !! it's back. yay ~ 09:09 thank you 09:09 np 09:09 i swear before it went to character creation 09:10 i believe you 09:10 now, about SAFERHANGUP 09:11 lets have a look 09:13 that define doesnt exist for dev or official build 09:13 at least not in config.h 09:16 ok it is defined in wceconf.h 09:16 but thats not what we're running on 09:17 its also in ntconf.h 09:17 what about unixconf.h 09:17 yes its defined there as well 09:18 and you have UNIX defined? 09:19 !tell LarienTelrunya your change to the whereis file works, beholder likes it 09:19 Will do, K2! 09:19 aosdict yes of course 09:20 in that case SAFERHANGUP *should* be defined... 09:20 via global.h via config.h 09:21 found this in global.h 09:21 #if defined(UNIX) || defined(VMS) || defined(__EMX__) || defined(WIN32) 09:21 #define HANGUPHANDLING 09:21 #endif 09:21 #if defined(SAFERHANGUP) \ 09:21 && (defined(NOSAVEONHANGUP) || !defined(HANGUPHANDLING)) 09:21 #undef SAFERHANGUP 09:21 #endif 09:22 my ssh session froze again after just like 45 seconds of inactivity, this time i'm not going to kill it, just will wait a long time and see if it ends on its own. not sure why this happens though. in the old days of NAO I could idle all day, then come back and the session would be responsive. But now on NAO, same issue... after sometimes very short periods of idleness, less than a minute, it seems my only option is to end the pr 09:22 so i don't think it's a hardfought issue 09:23 i dont either, you're the only person who's claimed to have this issue 09:23 however, we'll look into it all the same 09:23 nooodle: You possibly have something misconfigured with your ServerAliveInterval 09:23 i'll log in as anon and see if I can watch my game 09:23 however, this is independent of the problem with dev and xnh crashing games that were hung up 09:24 correct, i do think it's independent 09:24 ok, i'll read more about server alive interval 09:24 and ya, my game is there to watch. just can't control it. so weird 09:26 K2: Sorry I missed you before. My presence on here is infrequent at best. 09:26 no worries 09:26 went to dinner, came home put my kid to bed and i fell asleep reading to her 09:26 awwwww 09:26 lol 09:27 everyone now... AWWWW 09:28 lol that's sweet. 09:29 K2: I can confirm that if I ssh to my test server and start a game on the latest build, then kill -HUP the process, it saves. 09:29 ok 09:29 I want to see what happens if I kill the ssh session... 09:31 K2: So the current release of SpliceHack is (as far as I can tell) stable. Nothing in there should cause any crashes, barring #give which I think I fixed all the bugs in. 09:31 ok great 09:31 ok then I get the countdown (because the nethack process is still running on the server) 09:31 AntiGulp do you have your variant up on github? 09:31 AntiGulp: Time for you to mess something up with versioning in patchlevel.h and break someone's save :D 09:31 hah 09:31 K2: yes 09:31 Yes 09:31 Tangles: ok so far so good 09:32 https://github.com/nullcgt/splicehack 09:32 AntiGulp: btw do you intend to be forked off of 3.6.1 stable release and build from there, or continue merging in dev code? 09:33 K2: yeah I can't reproduce the issue at all. 09:33 so this is interesting. I can log in in another dgamelaunch session, log in as hypnotist, and watch my existing session. No surprise there. Then I can press 'v' from the main menu and it goes to character creation. I press 'q' so as not to create a character. The original hypnotist game is still running, still there to watch. 09:33 aosdict: I'm planning on continuing to merge in dev code, but that may have to change depending on what happens next version (i.e. the changes to C features) 09:33 Tangles: If I kill -HUP an xnh process locally, I also get it saved properly. 09:34 I would have expected 'v' to go to the 10 second countdown 09:34 AntiGulp: I'm welcoming the ANSIfication with open arms, the code will be *so* much nicer with it. 09:34 so it sounds like the issue with nooodle is that it's not picking that the process is already running for some reason (or that the running process belongs to the same user) 09:35 Tangles: right. Seems so. 09:35 aosdict: I'm definitely intrigued. I had only worked in ANSI C before digging into nethack, and the adjustment was/is pretty confusing. 09:35 you could get K2 to HUP the process manually and then see if it reconnects you to the save. 09:36 Meanwhile I added TCPKeepAlive yes to my sshconfig, hoping that will help 09:37 nooodle thats because dgl looks for a saved game as to whether it stays on dev or moves you over to official release 09:37 AntiGulp: I was very concerned that one of the devteam members was going to notice "Hey, all these enums paxed has been adding are not K&R C!" and backslide and revert all of them 09:38 instead I got just what I wanted 09:38 because you have your dev game loaded and running, if you try to start another 3.6.1 game it'll take you to official build 09:38 (the fact that they're going to let go of platforms that nobody is likely using) 09:38 ah... wait. is this hypnotist game an old dev game? 09:38 yes, that explains it. 09:39 Tangles: It shouldn't matter, xnh has the same problems and hasn't been updated recently 09:39 oh omg holy carps. I didn't realize 3.6.1 was released. 09:39 I better ascend this thing 09:39 it will run the old version _if a save file exists_, but the save file does not exist while the game is running, so it just launches the new version. 09:40 i'm so out of the loop, lol 09:40 oh huh 09:40 aosdict: maybe it's a different issue with xnh? 09:40 K2 told me it was released the other day but i misunderstood 09:40 now a new xnh game isn't giving me the problem anymore 09:40 Oh, perhaps my xnh save was 0.1.0. 09:40 I'm certainly not regularly playing it. 09:40 wait what 09:41 nooodle: if K2 sends your game a sighup, it will create a save file, then you'll be able to connect to the game again. 09:41 I started an 0.1.1 game, it restored my 0.1.0 save 09:41 ok I'm just going to get this guy killed off 09:41 i'd kill my character if it my precious 2 for 2 weren't on the line :p 09:41 mine is on dlvl 1 09:41 no streak to worry about 09:42 [hdf-us] [xnh] aosdict (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 153 points, T:344, killed by a falling rock 09:43 Tangles: So the problem is that it isn't picking up on "this thing is already running" with dgl versioning? 09:43 ok then I immediately hit x again and it restored my 0.1.1 save. Very odd. 09:43 nhdev is just a different dgamelaunch "game" than nh361 09:43 nhdev no longer has a menu option, i guess 09:43 !who 09:43 FIQ: [hdf-us] hypnotist [nh361] FIQ [xnh] aosdict [xnh] FIQ [xnh] 09:43 FIQ: [hdf-eu] No current players 09:43 correct 09:43 Seems like that is the problem 09:44 Cool, just killed the ssh session and got the stale-process-restoring-game thing 09:44 Alright, mission accomplished 09:44 ooh, thanks for hupping me 09:44 np 09:44 FIQ: Yeah it only checks if the save file exists (which it doesn't). The amount we can do inside dgamelaunch is limited... 09:45 K2: Tangles: OK so the problem is that dgl versioning doesn't play nice with stale processes 09:45 yes 09:45 Tangles: But watchlist knows about me playing 09:45 Couldn't you just make it so that a player can't launch more than one game at once? 09:46 -!- stenno_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:46 nooodle: For now, if your ssh session dies, just wait until the server realizes you're not around anymore 09:46 then you should be able to fire your game up again 09:48 aosdict: btw I pushed the fakewiz change today 09:48 And changed old saves retroactively 09:48 yay for save shims :p 09:48 FIQ: That may not be workable if the session dies after 45 seconds of inactivity. 09:48 aosdict: Right, but it seems like the usual is half an hour-ish? 09:48 judging by nooodle'd previous messages 09:48 FIQ: sounds good 09:48 *noodle's 09:49 and updated my sshconfig hoping it'll help 09:49 FIQ: If I do a change to fakewiz, it'll just be 0.1.2. 09:50 It's not an important thing to rush out. 09:51 rushing wasn't my point 09:51 but rather, never break save compat 09:51 :P 09:51 FIQ: you are correct that dgamelaunch has the info in its watch menu structure "this player is playing that game", so we could potentially add a new primitive "play_if_running", in addition to "play_if_exist", that attempts to relaunch an already running session. I'll think about that ;) 09:54 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 helm of brilliance", on T:33547 09:55 lol yes i did 09:58 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Medusa, on T:33755 09:59 i had no idea my actions were spamming this channel 10:05 nooodle: we live-log certain things in the game here because it's fun :) 10:07 :D 10:15 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:34572 10:20 *doesn't open quantum mechanics' large boxes because feels too guilty about possibly killing a cat* 10:25 FIQ: Save compat is a very low priority for me, if I'm considering a new release. 10:27 the main people it shafts are those who are in the middle of a long game in the old version who won't get the new version till they ascend 10:40 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the invisible Baalzebub, on T:36337 10:40 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 10:42 -!- Pavel has joined #hardfought 10:42 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:42 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 10:43 -!- stenno is now known as Guest49557 10:43 -!- Pavel has quit [Client Quit] 10:45 [hdf-us] [dnh] innmalint (Nob Hum Mal Cha), 1159 points, T:1822, quit 10:46 <@Pavel> :O When did 3.6.1 get released 10:46 Friday 10:46 <@Pavel> Ah 10:46 <@Pavel> So I'm not that late 10:46 <@Winsalot> LarienTelrunya: you here? time to play slex again 😃 10:46 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:36856 10:46 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:36858 10:47 -!- Guest49557 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:47 <@Pavel> aosdict: So does that mean that xnh is now based on 3.6.2-dev? 10:48 The devteam have currently not yet published any next release branches, however: 10:48 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased magic marker", on T:36913 10:48 3.6.1 will be the last update to 3.6. So xnh is now based on... 3.7-dev (dun dun dun!) 10:49 <@Pavel> Ah 10:49 <@Pavel> The branch still seems to be called 3.6.0 even though 3.6.1 is out 10:52 <@Pavel> I should have tried a different terminal colorscheme ages ago I just found out that gold, fountains, and stairs are not all grey. 10:52 :O 10:53 the branch will be renamed soon. 10:54 <@Pavel> Solarized Dark is beautiful when it comes to regular terminal-ing but absolutely godawful for anything where you need color support beyond red, brown, and green. 10:55 I didn't know who thought 3.6.0 would be a good idea. it's not that you would need to support different patchlevel branches with the way the nethack versioning scheme 10:55 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:58 oh my gosh @Winsalot PLEASE do not recommend people to use the arrow keys. It is a very suboptimal way to move around the dungeon. 10:58 <@Pavel> So to avoid traped dorrs in xnh, should I just be searching every door 10:58 <@Winsalot> but thats what I use 10:58 <@Pavel> But you're wrong 10:58 <@Winsalot> I also use yubn 10:59 <@Pavel> Arrow keys suck 10:59 @Pavel Currently you can, I am still not sure how to fix the door searching / searching in general problem. 10:59 Wait, arrow keys + yubn? That is *weird*. 10:59 jonadab: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-04-30 02:23 EDT: what is 997.txt? it is 0 byte in size... was there supposed to be something in there? 10:59 Not as weird as the person who uses the top-row numbers on the main body of the keyboard. 10:59 But weird. 11:00 <@Winsalot> Well I started with arrowkeys and occasionaly pressing yubn to move diagonally 11:00 <@Winsalot> And now I'm used to this 11:00 @Winsalot: if you use the arrow keys in NH4, you can also use home/end/pgup/pgdn for diagonal movement. It works the same as if you were using the numpad ones. 11:00 <@Winsalot> mostly playing grid-bug style though 11:00 Oh, man, don't do that. 11:01 Grid-bug style play is highly suboptimal. 11:01 Unless you're doing it as a challenge conduct. 11:02 <@Pavel> aosdict: I'm still not entirely sure how searching works in Nethackhow many times would you reccommend using the search command? I generally do 20s whenever I htink something is suspicious. 11:02 @Pavel I usually do 33s, but 22s is almost as good. 11:03 <@Pavel> Ah, thanks Is there some difficult math that goes into these numbers? 11:03 <@Winsalot> I have ascended twice though. And I'm about to ascend slex now. So I guess my suboptimal play is fine 😃 11:04 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Orcus, on T:38109 11:04 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:38144 11:08 @Pavel No, it's just because it's easier to double tap a key. 11:08 But the way you search doors is via #untrap, which is terrible. 11:08 Or u, I guess, if you are using numpad. 11:09 <@Pavel> I'm using yubn 11:09 <@Pavel> hjkl 11:09 <@Pavel> So yeah, #untrap is pretty terrible 11:09 @Winsalot yes, you can get away with using arrow keys only if you are a skilled enough player, my problem is with telling a self-professed new player that a variant is better because it allows you to use arrow keys. 11:11 @Pavel Difficult, no. The math is, the chance of not finding anything after searching n times is equal to the chance of not finding anything after searching once, raised to the power of n. 11:11 (To convert to the chance of _finding_ something, subtract from 100%.) 11:11 <@Pavel> I just spent 5 minutes trying to convince my cat to shoplift only for it steal a lockpick when I already had a lockpick 11:11 Yes, it's not worth the hassle in most cases. 11:11 <@Pavel> Can I just sell the lockpick back to the shopkeeper, or will he recognize it? 11:12 Just go explore a little and you'll have gold. 11:12 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12 In most versions you can sell the lockpick, but not in dnethack. 11:12 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 11:12 <@Pavel> <-- playing xnh 11:12 <@Pavel> Free money! 11:12 But not infinite money. The shk only has so much. 11:13 <@Winsalot> I think that nethack is very daunting for new players as it is. It takes time to discover how amazing this game is, and if person is forced to use vi-keys they might stop playing very early just because they find controls inconvenient. At least that's my perspective 11:13 <@Pavel> Oh hey, the kitten just stole a brass lantern after I came back into the shop to sell the lockpick 11:13 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 11:13 <@Pavel> That might actually be useful 11:13 <@Winsalot> I don't think I would be playing nethack rn if the only option was vi-keys or numpad (which I dont have) 11:14 @Winsalot but basically all games in the genre use Rogue keys. Because Rogue did. 11:14 you might not have played enough roguelikes developped in the last 10 years 11:14 ADOM is the major exception, and even it supports them now, indirectly, by letting you rebind any keys. 11:14 bhaak: I mean roguelikes in the traditional sense, not the platformers and whatnot that the kids on Steam call "roguelikes" 11:14 @Winsalot Conversely, new players that restrict themselves to grid bug conduct are likely to die much more often because they can't properly flee or escape from situations. 11:15 <@Pavel> I was born in 2001, and initially couldn't get into nethack because of Vi-keys 11:15 <@Pavel> Then I learned Vim 11:15 <@Pavel> And now I play Nethack 11:15 I learned Rogue keys for NetHack, still won't use vi. 11:15 Arrow key movement is irreconcilable with the fact that diagonal movement _exists_. 11:15 It does't just exist. Diagonal movement is tactically *important*. 11:16 jonadab: you can be sure I'm not of the steam fraction, but rogue keys is mostly a thing of the past. 11:16 I learned vim from having to edit my nethack config with it 11:16 <@Pavel> ========\\\\\\]]]]]]]]]]]]]][;;;;[[[[]]]]]]]]]============\\\\]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]o=============]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]\\\\ 11:16 i USE vim daily and don't use hjkl for navigating in vim 11:16 <@Pavel> Sorry, cat 11:17 jonadab: Probably most of the people on reddit roguelikedev are making actual roguelikes, I think. Not that I'm familiar with any of their control schemes. 11:18 <@Winsalot> I have opened vi once on my smartphone terminal app, couldn't exit and decided that I don't want to touch any of those text editors for now. 11:19 aosdict: Then why do they keep asking questions like "Is randomly generating the map actually important, or can I just skip that part?" 11:19 <@Pavel> > The kitten eats a floating eye corpse. Goddammit 11:20 @Pavel: In FIQHack this would give the kitten telepathy, which would let you see the kitten anywhere on the level, even while not blind, once you get telepathy as well. 11:20 <@Pavel> @Winsalot That's because Vim is unusable without an escape key 11:21 YOu can exit it with :q! 11:21 (Which I only learned because of virus.) 11:21 jonadab: I think that's a false generalization. And I do think that that community actively tries not to gatekeep on the definition of roguelikes. (As in, unless you're making something that has zero roguelike elements, you're welcome there.) 11:21 or with ZQ 11:21 (I looked it up once, and put it in a comment at the top of my .nethackrc on NAO in case of a typo getting me into virus again... so then it was there every time I edited my NetHack config...) 11:23 aosdict: My experience is that /r/roguelikes will say "that's not a roguelike" and then happily discuss the game anyway, but /r/roguelikedev won't even go that far. 11:23 <@Pavel> jonadab: But if you're editing text, you have to press escape to go into command mode in order to enter :q! 11:24 @Pavel You start out in command mode, so if you get into the editor by mistake, you can get out without escape. 11:24 Actually, I don't even know how to get into entering-text mode. 11:25 I don't use vi. 11:25 Most of what I know about vi is based on what vi users say about it. 11:26 <@Pavel> i or a, generally 11:26 <@Pavel> Which are insert and append, respectively 11:26 [hdf-us] [xnh] Pavel (Val Dwa Fem Law), 701 points, T:1779, killed by a gecko, while frozen by a monster's gaze 11:26 <@Pavel> On a note unrelated to Vi, shite. 11:28 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:39324 11:28 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:39324 11:29 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:39329 11:29 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:39375 11:35 nh361 ... is that some sorta variant? :) 11:35 <@Pavel> > As the DYWYPI check counts as item identification, it exercises wisdom. Does this have any meaning at all 11:36 bhaak, I learned to appreciate hjkl due to using NetHack actually. Made using VIM much more viable after I got them ingrained in my head. 11:36 K2: Yeah, nh361 should really just become nh and 3.4.3 should become nh343 11:37 @Pavel bwahaha that's hilarious 11:37 cooperative telepathy is nice 11:37 DF A mode also uses them. ADOM to my knowledge only supports the numpad but I never got far in ADOM 11:38 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the invisible high priestess of Moloch, on T:39731 11:38 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:39741 11:39 NCommander: I'm mostly jumping around, using the word movement commands or page up/down or / searching my way to the right place and visual block editing 11:40 I think I mostly use vim as a glorified ex 11:40 aosdict: keeping nh361 as is. changed nh to nh343, that's staying as is also 11:41 I swear, I'm the only one who regular uses nano 11:41 :P 11:41 i do too 11:41 jonadab: was vi inspired by rogue 11:41 loves me some nano 11:41 or was rogue inspired by vi 11:41 aosdict, does xnh have the Elbereth change that it only degrades when you attack vs attack received? 11:41 FIQ, vi came first. vi was in UNIX v7 11:42 <@Pavel> bhaak: ex is part of vim though 11:42 ah 11:42 NCommander: I use nano every time I set up a new computer. Until I get to the point where I can install Emacs. 11:42 FIQ: Neither. 11:43 FIQ: Both vi and Rogue got hjkl from a physical terminal that had arrows printed on those keys. 11:43 (express (feeling('meh', 'emacs is interesting, but I never found a good reason to like it over anything else and its rarely installed out of the box)) 11:43 (You used them by holding one of the buckies and pressing the keys.) 11:43 <@Pavel> IMO, the only reason to use nano is being unwillining to learn Vim and being in a situation where you can't make use of a display server. 11:43 ^) 11:43 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 11:43 ADM something, IIRC. 11:44 rld, I frequently have to code over SSH sessions. My editor of choice at these days is Visual Studio Code, even if Electron likes to guzzle RAM 11:44 -!- stenno is now known as Guest69863 11:44 You don't need a display server to use Emacs. 11:44 I normally run it in Gnu screen, actually. 11:44 <@Pavel> Sorry, Vim or Emacs 11:44 NCommander: rld is the irc to discord bridge 11:44 emacs also has the same problem I have with VIM. I find it very very meh uncustomized. 11:45 Oh, Emacs is not meant to be used uncustomized. 11:45 you're actually addressing Pavel ;) 11:45 <@Pavel> And if you want to notify me, you use @Pavel and not Pavel: 11:45 NCommander: xnh is currently 3.6.1 + xnethack specific changes. It always has everything in the latest dev branch of nethack except maybe recent stuff. 11:45 jonadab, but that's the problem. If I'm working on remote systems, I need to go with an editor that can basically be grab it and go. Vim is usable, emacs somewhat less so, and nano tends to shut up and work. Most I have to do is start it -ET4 for using spaces and tabwidth 4 11:45 <@Pavel> NCommander: Mount remote server, as sshfs, use VSCode. 11:46 NCommander: You can use Emacs on your local system and edit files on a remote server. 11:46 Pavel: doesn't work anywhere as well as you'd think; plus if I'm on a Windows machine, no sshfs I found that works period. 11:46 It does that. 11:46 jonadab, I'm also fairly sure I could use emacs to reprogram my ham radio sets ;) 11:47 Also probably true. 11:47 emacs was one of the weirder porting experiences I ever had 11:47 What did you port to Emacs? 11:47 Little endian ARM; it had some stupid assumptions in the lisp engine. 11:48 Ah. 11:48 But really, it's a Lisp engine with some scripts, not so much an editor when you look at it from a coding PoV :) 11:48 -!- Guest69863 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:48 <@Pavel> NCommander: While on Windows, use WSL. 11:48 Work laptop !win10 11:49 There's a Windows-native version of Emacs. It can remotely edit files via ssh. 11:49 I've learned the hard way; when you do development, your development platform should always be the *minimal* version you support. So the windows laptop runs 7 until we EoL 7 support 11:49 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:40968 11:49 <@Pavel> Ah, I see 11:49 jonadab, ... that might be enough to convince me to hop back into emacs. 11:49 <@Pavel> I wonder if Nethack runs on Emacs 11:50 I last used emacs when (please don't laugh), I coded on GNU Hurd 11:50 @Pavel Yes, but not well. 11:50 <@Pavel> Excellent 11:50 Because you *actually* need a fracking Lisp engine to properly format your code in the GNU style. 11:50 Which is buttfuck ugly :/ 11:50 jonadab: what is a bucky 11:50 "coded on" as in "coded various projects while running my dev environment on", or "coded on" as in "hacked on the source code for"? 11:50 One true brace for life. :) 11:50 <@Pavel> I believe the anecdote goes, "Emacs is an excellent operating system that has every feature you could want except a good text editor." 11:51 jonadab, both in this case 11:51 FIQ: a key that, when you press it, doesn't do anything except change the meaning of other keys while it's held. Such as shift, ctrl, alt, etc. 11:51 Pavel: you could actually run vim in emacs-shell :) 11:51 Ah 11:51 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:41128 11:51 Never heard that term 11:51 * NCommander actually knew someone who did that because they like gnus, disliked the text editor. 11:51 viper mode kinda sucks if you're a VIM power user. 11:51 FIQ: It's in jargon-1 11:51 escape meta alt control shift 11:52 <@Pavel> jargon-1? 11:52 * NCommander actually has a keyboard with a physical meta button 11:52 NCommander: evil is better than viper 11:52 much better, no less 11:52 @Pavel aka The Hacker's Dictionary 11:52 even vim power users has converted using it 11:52 What about vigor? 11:52 The version of vi with an office assistant? 11:52 FIQ, now if I could convey the guy on my team that WordStar is dead and buried and requiring we ship joe for editing config files on the device image is silly :P 11:52 wasn't vigor the clippy spoof 11:53 Yes. 11:53 *convince. 11:53 nano is probably a good choice for that. 11:53 THe major objection anyone has to nano is that it doesn't have a lot of features. 11:54 But for that sort of situation, you _want_ something lightweight. 11:54 <@Winsalot> wtf how come spell of remove curse doesn't uncurse my weapon? 11:54 THe user can always install their own editor. 11:55 nano is good enough for "casual" editing of stuff 11:55 config files and stuff 11:55 I'd rather use a more fully-fledged editor when doing programming stuff 11:55 jonadab, this is on an "embedded" device that has a locked file system. As it turns out, we have nearly 500 MiB free on the system partition and I like the guy so I made him happy. I can spare a few kilobytes for his favorite editor 11:55 like emacs 11:56 aosdict: do you plan to merge 3.6.1 official into xnh, or wait until 3.7.x branch is made available and go off of it? 11:56 <@Pavel> I don't think I've ever been speaking with multiple people who use Emacs at the same time. 11:56 also, i'm not missing any recent updates am I? 11:56 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:41923 11:56 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:41925 11:56 ugh 11:57 I need a shower 11:57 FIQ: Sure. Editing with nano takes about five times as long as with (my heavily customized) Emacs, but that's only a big deal if you're editing very much. For small changes it's fine. 11:57 * NCommander just got a legacy WinCE program compiled 11:57 Eww, WinCE. 11:57 nethack runs on winCE 11:57 <@Pavel> nano .vimrc 11:57 See if you can port it to Windows Phone. 11:57 FIQ: I know, but that's because NetHack runs on everything. 11:57 jonadab, my current job is to port this thing to Android. 11:57 Well, not everything. Not like Zork. 11:58 <@Pavel> I have a windows phone 11:58 WinCE to... ANdroid? 11:58 *Android 11:58 <@Pavel> I don't use it much since getting an android 11:58 jonadab, devteam announced a lot of ports are going to the bitbucket. I might try to save the DOS and OS/2 ones out of nogasia 11:58 That's quite the port 11:58 @Pavel Wait, you have a what now? I think you are the first person I've ever heard say that you have one. 11:58 K2: No recent updates, also 3.6.1 official should be in xnh, or else if I need to merge it in it'll just be doc stuff. 11:58 (Not counting a person who was clearly joking.) 11:58 <@Pavel> I used it for a few years 11:59 Interesting. 11:59 FIQ, I got lucky. They actually coded this app in C#, so I can reuse a fair bit of it. 11:59 <@Pavel> I still believe the windows phone OS is much better than iOS or Android 11:59 ... really? 11:59 <@Pavel> But no one every built any apps for it, so it doesn't end up being very usable. 11:59 aosdict gotcha 12:00 Nobody built any apps for it because (almost) nobody was using it. 12:00 If a platform has a lot of users, developers will do the hundred yard belly crawl naked over shards of glass to deliver apps to it. 12:00 jonadab: windows phone isn't a bad OS 12:00 Hence, Windows. 12:00 windows phone, not windows mobile 12:01 <@Pavel> It was unused not because it was bad, it's because MS completely dropped the ball on marketting. 12:01 FIQ: Then why did it never get any significant usage share? 12:01 @Pavel Huh. Marketing isn't something I usually think of Microsoft as being especially bad at. 12:01 wince actually did decently against PalmOS 12:01 I mean, they're not _great_ at marketing. 12:01 But they can do it. 12:02 * NCommander grumbles 12:02 Bloody VC++ 12:02 jonadab: because people hadn't heard of it and/or didn't want an unsafe purchase? 12:02 they know what android/iOS is 12:02 <@Pavel> It wasn't just marketting, it was also that everyone already had an iphone or android and didn't want to switch 12:02 so they'll keep buying android/iOS 12:03 jonadab: why hasn't Linux gotten any significant usage share on desktop? 12:03 <@Pavel> Edge is actually really good, but everyone still uses chrome or FF because switching is a pain 12:04 jonadab: people want apps 12:04 windows phone had no apps 12:04 because why make an app for windows phone when nobody uses it 12:04 etc 12:04 <@Pavel> We've actually reached the point where Safari is now more of a pain for Web developers than Edge is. 12:05 isn't Safari just webkit? 12:05 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:42237 12:06 <@Pavel> I think it's super outdated 12:08 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:42250 12:09 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:42264 12:09 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:42279 12:10 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:42302 12:11 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:42319 12:12 go nooodle go 12:12 :) sorry about the famine spam 12:12 no worries. it isnt spam 12:13 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:42335 12:13 This isnt spam, but invite to spectate 12:14 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:42351 12:14 <@Pavel> Which @ is nooodle? 12:14 After AAA 12:14 seven famine kills? jeez 12:14 <@Pavel> ty 12:15 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:42366 12:15 famine fuuks 12:15 !lots hypnotist 12:15 !lotg hypnotist 12:15 May the Luck of the Grasshopper be with you always, hypnotist! 12:15 still no luck of anyone but the grasshopper? 12:15 thank you :) 12:16 !gt hypnotist 12:16 hm.. 12:16 no go team here 12:16 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:42380 12:16 didnt want to rip rodney off completely 12:17 <@Pavel> I'm not sure what's going on 12:17 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:42392 12:17 <@Pavel> He's just standing in one spot 12:17 <@Pavel> And repeatedly killing Famine 12:18 lol. not intentionally though. 12:18 <@Pavel> Are you trying to move left? 12:19 I guess it's hard not to farm famine at the end 12:19 <@Pavel> nooodle: Can I see your nethackrc sometime? I like your colors. 12:20 oh, sure. I'm not sure if there's an easy way to retrieve it. But I can figure something out 12:20 <@Pavel> ty 12:20 yes, if you're twoweaponing and can reliably kill famine in a single turn, not hard to farm. 12:21 <@Pavel> Is this useful though 12:21 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:42413 12:22 about to find out maybe... 12:22 it's more that I'm level 25 and lots of summoners around me 12:23 <@Pavel> Does teleporatation not work on the astral plane? 12:23 <@Tone> Has anyone legitimately done any Rider farming on hardfought? I could see that easily flooding the channel here 12:24 Teleporting *other* stuff, illogically, does work. 12:24 -!- Tarmunora has joined #hardfought 12:24 <@Tone> I've farmed death before with a macro, that was a long time ago though 12:24 <@Pavel> I'm curious, has anyone ascended while polymorphed with @ genocided 12:25 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:42435 12:25 <@Tone> Ascended, while on Charon's boat? :P 12:25 <@Pavel> Yeah 12:25 <@Pavel> You become immortal after ascending right 12:26 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:26 Then if you're an archeologist, you get put in a museum by your god as the only living specimen of humans 12:26 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:42458 12:26 <@Tone> What a twisted fate 😄 12:27 <@Pavel> You should make that a thing YAFMs for each role for ascending while your base race is genocided 12:27 Yeeeeaaaah 12:27 @Pavel ok, come up with the other 12 and I'll implement it 12:27 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 4059150 points, T:42463, ascended (sorry, no dump exists for nh361:hypnotist) 12:27 <@Pavel> \o/ 12:27 No dump?! 12:27 lol yay 12:28 nooodle, respect! 12:28 * aosdict raises a pitchfork at K2 12:28 well it wasn't truly nh361 12:28 <@Tone> 'grats nooodle 😄 12:28 !asc hypnotist 12:28 nooodle: [hdf-us] hypnotist has ascended 2 times in 2 games (100.00%): nh361:2 (100.00%) 12:28 maybe the fact that it started as nhdev means it can't find the dump file location 12:28 <@Pavel> Maybe not unique ones for each role 12:29 beholder (currently) only reports the newest version of any variants dumplog 12:29 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/h/hypnotist/nhdev/dumplog/1524858248.nhdev.txt 12:30 <@Pavel> Monks and rangers are generally considered loner types, so you could have something based on that 12:30 nooodle: now play xnh? :D 12:32 @Tone IIRC I made FIQHack only report the first death of an unique, for this reason 12:32 at least I intended to 12:32 maybe I forgot 12:32 i have to learn what xnh is. But I'm open to trying it 12:33 xnh is improved 3.6.1 12:33 FIQ: that should probably be a sysconf option. 12:33 or, i mean, like, what it's deal is, how not to suck 12:33 aosdict: No sysconf in NH4 12:33 nooodle: Early game at least should be virtually identical to 3.6.1 12:34 cool cool. Ok, I'll give it a shot :) 12:34 <@Pavel> aodict: I can't think of any other role-specific YAFMs, but I think it could generally, in all cases, say something along the lines of " had to come to terms with outliving every member of his race a lot sooner than he wanted to." 12:36 <@Pavel> aosdict:* 12:36 aosdict: Is there a good reason for me not just making mazexy not be able to select a location inside a room? 12:37 FIQ: Presumably you would want random items and stuff to still generate inside rooms. 12:37 Especially non-special empty rooms. 12:37 <@Pavel> Now I really want someone to ascend while on charon's boat 12:37 <@Pavel> Someone who doesn't suck at Nethack get onto that 12:37 [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 310 points, T:546, killed by a hobbit 12:37 Also, mazexy has the minor problem that its caller expects it to return immediately without looping 12:38 aosdict: hmm looking at what mazexy does 12:38 it checks for ROOM 12:38 so why can it select lava tiles? 12:38 you mentioned this a few days ago, I haven't confirmed it 12:38 !lastgame hypnotist 12:38 K2: [hdf-us] (sorry, no dump exists for nh361:hypnotist) 12:39 yeah 12:39 !asc hypnotist 12:39 K2: [hdf-us] hypnotist has ascended 2 times in 2 games (100.00%): nh361:2 (100.00%) 12:39 Tangles fixed that bit thank goodness 12:39 damn 100% 12:39 oh I see 12:40 !streak hypnotist 12:40 K2: [hdf-us] hypnotist Max[nh361]: 2 (2018-04-24 - 2018-04-30)(current). 12:40 K2: [hdf-eu] No streaks for hypnotist on this server. 12:40 I think 12:40 aosdict: hmm can you repeat what the issue is? 12:40 Grasshopper observed a scroll generated in lava 12:40 I see a potential problem in that it can place lava inside rooms with stairs, but I think FIQHack is safe from this 12:40 because I made it force a non-stair room 12:41 for lavarooms 12:41 it *can* place stairs in lava rooms, but the lava can only be placed on ROOM tiles 12:41 hmm 12:41 so not STAIRS 12:41 Not in FIQHack, I fixed this issue 12:41 It will never generate lava rooms inside rooms with stairs 12:41 that isn't an issue 12:42 But I don't like it 12:42 Pavel: my current nethackrc. By no means perfect... definitely has some precedence errors in item highlighting, for instance. https://pastebin.com/GAQEh4JN 12:42 the issue is that we have an observation of items generated in lava 12:42 hmm 12:42 oh well 12:42 <@Pavel> Thanks nooodle 12:42 I guess I'll have to wait for someone to reproduce the issue on fiqhack end 12:42 can't really do much without knowing how it is caused 12:42 because from what I can see 12:42 it shouldn't be possible 12:43 it's possible that xnh and fh does stuff in slightly different order too 12:43 since 3.6.1 changes some maze stuff 12:43 the obj placement code comes after maze_touchup_rooms though 12:43 yes exactly 12:43 so I don't see how it can happen 12:44 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 12:44 -!- stenno is now known as Guest89209 12:45 wait 12:45 aosdict I didn't find a scroll on that lava 12:45 lol 12:45 but 12:45 So the bug is a lie? :P 12:45 used a blessed potion of object detection for first level after the Va 12:45 lley, and it shows me "a scroll in molten lava". 12:46 Oh, then I know what happened 12:46 Hmm, monster carrying it? 12:46 Salamander generated on lava 12:46 Salamander carried the scroll 12:46 3.6.1 is simply just printing a misleading message 12:46 is all 12:46 why not just "? a scroll (scroll)" then? 12:47 I think because 3.6.1 still only has a single glyph on each tile 12:47 So it assumes you know there's lava below 12:47 (but that you don't know about the salamander) 12:47 Actually, if it weren't carried by a monster, it'd say what the scroll was. 12:47 I think NH4 does the same thing, but only if you explored the location 12:47 since otherwise you don't know there's lava there 12:48 aosdict: Only on blessed object detection 12:48 YANI: fix this by making blessed obj detect show "? an [item] (item carried by a monster)" 12:48 s/monster/creature 12:48 this is a matter of NH not making a distinction on "item carried by a monster" and "item on the floor" and "item buried" 12:49 since in vanilla you know that already 12:49 when it comes to object detection 12:49 -!- Guest89209 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:52 aosdict: good job raising the level of charm monster from 3 to 6. Just reading the notes on the wiki. I've long thought that spell was vastly overpowered 12:54 oh, nice, you made the orcish minetown better too... whenever I get that one I curse my luck :p 12:56 <@Pavel> What does "This scroll turns to dust as you pick it up" indicate? 12:57 that you tried to pick up a cursed scroll of scare monster 12:57 or an uncursed one for a 2nd time 13:04 <@Pavel> Dip in fountain -> Overflows -> Watchman drowns -> Shite 13:04 \o/ 13:04 [hdf-us] [xnh] Pavel (Val Dwa Fem Law), 806 points, T:1776, killed by a spear 13:05 nooooo 13:05 <@Pavel> What was the \o/ for 13:06 K2 and his schadenfreude 13:07 <@Pavel> I am unfamiliar with that last word there 13:08 german word that has been adopted into english, means delight in others' misfortune. 13:08 <@Pavel> I see 13:08 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Ran Elf Mal Cha) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:3282 13:08 <@Pavel> ⍨ 13:09 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 13:12 <@kritixilithos> that's the first time I'm seeing an apl symbol being used as an emoticon 13:14 <@Pavel> Can we agree that it's perfect for this case 13:14 * aosdict is surprised that rendered in my terminal 13:14 <@Pavel> I'd be surprised if it didn't 13:14 <@Pavel> APL charaters are supported everywhere 13:14 <@kritixilithos> well APL is really old and IIRC they made sure all their symbols got into the Unicode from the start 13:15 <@Pavel> It predates unicode by decades 13:16 <@Pavel> Ok, one and a half decades 13:16 <@Pavel> *two and half 13:16 <@Pavel> APL was 1962 and Unicode was 1987 13:21 <@Pavel> aosdict: Assuming you're on Linux, you actually already have the APL keyboard installed, most likely. 13:27 [hdf-us] [nh343] Nobbs (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 7038 points, T:3880, killed by an ape 13:27 -!- lynn has joined #hardfought 13:29 That was just my default reaction to an odd symbol I haven't seen before. 13:30 Lots of unicode (like that pizza emoji guy on discord) just shows up as the rectangle with hexadecimal numbers in it. 13:32 -!- hf_guest_80197 has joined #hardfought 13:35 aosdict: I think that's mostly a function of what font your terminal is using. 13:35 (And yeah, same here. I'm using a font that's older than most of those emoji.) 13:36 (Which isn't hard.) 13:36 -!- hf_guest_80197 has quit [Client Quit] 13:36 at the moment, Monospace Regular. 13:36 Some emoji do display, like smiley faces. 13:37 But not pizza. 13:37 Oh, sure, the ones that have been around for a while. 13:37 (I'm using Deja Vu Sans Mono.) 13:37 (And probably an out-of-date version of it at that.) 13:43 If you can't view the bicycle utf8 you can't play tubhack! 13:43 mcw: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-04-30 01:55 EDT: wow that level editor video looks very fleecy! ♥ 13:44 he says, jokingly. 13:45 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 13:45 -!- stenno is now known as Guest12250 13:47 -!- lynn has left #hardfought 13:48 aosdict: me old mucker, does this mazewalk look anything like what it's supposed to? https://i.imgur.com/nZS3LyV.png 13:49 well get rid of the random walls in the stone parts of the map 13:49 -!- Guest12250 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:49 The very top row? 13:49 [hdf-us] [sp] DrakeMarshall (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 392 points, T:324, killed by a gnome 13:49 no, everywhere 13:50 all those intrusions of stone out of the top and bottom walls 13:50 which have walls in them 13:50 should have stone 13:51 So where it goes wall|stone|wall|stone|wall... 13:51 Epic! 13:51 It should be stone stone stone stone? 13:51 yes 13:51 Found Speed-Boots in DLvl 6 13:51 <@Winsalot> Guys, I have reached medusa in slex. I consider it an achievment 13:51 also, those 3x3 boxes of walls should have a stone in the middle, not a wall 13:52 (assuming those actually appear in the Catacombs? can't remember 13:52 Is that just something that happens automatically, without wallify? 13:52 mcw: The vanilla implementation is in mkmaze.c, it's named walkfrom() 13:52 FIQ: yeah i copied that 13:52 (because of course it is, what, did you expect makemaze?) 13:52 I think I'm missing some cleanup that gets down automatically 13:53 mcw: The top 2 rows are unused for mazes 13:53 and the leftmost 1 13:53 Oh yeah I should mention 13:53 I'm ignoring the center,bottom alignment at the moment 13:53 NH3 x starts at 1 13:53 NH4 x starts at 0, just like y 13:54 wait what? 13:54 x starts at 1? 13:54 mcw: welcome to nethack 13:54 In NH3 yes 13:54 But that doesn't make sense? 13:54 Oh 13:54 wiat 13:54 No 13:54 I am using a nh4 .des :) 13:54 so it does make sense! 13:54 Ah 13:54 the green rect is where the mazewalk starts 13:54 Still, mazes don't use x 0 and y 0-1 13:54 even in NH4 13:55 (in NH3 x 0 is unused because it doesn't even exist) 13:55 so the mazewalk should start one to the left? 13:55 I'm probably just fudging the start logic to make it work, but I suspect it doesn't have an effect, otherwise it would just fail immediately. 13:55 But it looks like the maze gets generated, just the edges are fucked 13:55 @Winsalot congrats heh 13:55 Err, I should load this in nh4 shouldn't I 13:56 !players 13:56 K2: [hdf-us] DrakeMarshall [fh] APic [nh361] fusillade [nh361] hothraxxa [xnh] 13:56 K2: [hdf-eu] winsalot [dnh] 13:56 http://home.fiq.se/catacombs.png 13:56 this is how it's supposed to look like 13:56 !whereis winsalot 13:56 K2: [hdf-us] winsalot is not currently playing on this server. 13:57 (doors aren't revealed there, sorry, but you should get what it looks like) 13:57 cheers 13:57 ah cool so there are those weird bits of wall 13:57 I just need to do some kind of stone-i-fy 13:58 I think catacombs was designed specifically around the way NH's mazewalk works 13:58 unlike "regular" mazes in the game 13:58 Aye, It hink it's a good test 13:58 Which might help explain why yours screw up 13:58 So anywhere which ends up as stone next to floor should get turned into a wall? 13:58 FIQ: I think the mazewalk itself is OK, just need to do more stuff after 13:59 FIQ: There's a comment in mines.des about this :) 13:59 # Relies on some very specific behavior of MAZEWALK. 13:59 Lemme have a bash at cleanup 13:59 mcw: I believe wallify in vanilla is what would replace those "spikes" with solid rock 13:59 FIQ: yes, but wallify runs before mazewalk so isn't used for this level 13:59 Unless there is some implicit wallify 14:00 also there's other issues with your thing 14:00 ;) 14:01 it looks like the topmost row and bottommost row is skipped 14:01 similar with leftmost x 14:01 but not rightmost 14:02 Yeah I did a boo boo with an index 14:03 lemme fix up the walls 14:05 mcw: Just checked. wallification() runs after walkfrom 14:05 At least in FIQHack 14:05 I think FIQHack and NH4 is similar here, less sure with NH3 14:06 see sp_lev.c 14:06 That makes sense yeah 14:06 function "load_maze" (???) 14:06 It runs even if there is no WALLIFY right? 14:06 -!- nooodle has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:06 Yes 14:06 wait, there's a WALLIFY instruction? 14:07 Yeah 14:07 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought 14:07 But I think the explicit WALLIFY gets run *before* mazewalk, or there is a comment I read somewhere that suggests that 14:07 ah 14:07 nh :-) 14:07 well it runs regardless of wallify 14:07 at least after walkfrom 14:07 has done its thing 14:07 Yeah that makes complete sense 14:08 And will fix up all the poo 14:09 -!- nooodle has joined #hardfought 14:10 FIQ: Sorry I didn't get around to documenting all the sp_lev.c functions yet. 14:17 [hdf-us] [dnh] innmalint (Con Dwa Mal Cha), 195 points, T:553, killed by an iron ball collision 14:17 heh 14:19 -!- tacco| has joined #hardfought 14:29 I am a moron 14:29 Also why are vim regex so fucking ugly? 14:29 s/l\[\(.\{-}\)\]/bg.tiles[\1.x][\1.y]/g 14:29 * mcw shudders 14:29 f https://i.imgur.com/iFiGCmM.png 14:29 FIQ: look any better ^ 14:30 so I figure I ask here, since we have dgamelaunch, is it possible to set up something like dglaunch on a ssh server that requires key auth for all other users? 14:30 dgamelaunch* 14:31 You log in as the same user to dgl I think? 14:31 i mean in sshd_config 14:32 PasswordAuthentication no 14:32 ? 14:32 yes 14:32 You'd have to share the private key 14:32 which is very suspicous 14:32 suspicious 14:32 hmmm 14:32 Unless you do some wanky setuid thing on dgl I guess? 14:32 so maybe i might be better off having another sshd 14:33 no idea 14:33 why you trying to overturn hdf thoug?! 14:33 I will call the kops 14:33 lmao 14:33 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 14:34 no i'm asking because users of dgamelaunch have some experience setting up ssh servers with wonky configs, and need to set up something similar to dgamelaunch on a personal server, but don't want to allow password auth for other users 14:34 Ahhh 14:34 You can do a user based match for PasswordAuthentication no 14:34 But honestly as soon as I have my key installed I disable password auth for *all* users 14:35 !who 14:35 K2: [hdf-us] innmalint [slex] hypnotist [xnh] hothraxxa [xnh] 14:35 K2: [hdf-eu] k2 [slex] 14:35 like i said it's similar in usage to dgamelaunch 14:35 !whereis k2 14:35 mcw: [hdf-us] k2 is not currently playing on this server. 14:35 mcw: [hdf-eu] k2 [slex]: (Bar Ang Mal Cha) T:1 The Dungeons of Doom level: 1 14:35 so that won't work c: 14:35 !whereis k2 14:35 K2: [hdf-us] k2 is not currently playing on this server. 14:35 K2: [hdf-eu] k2 [slex]: (Bar Ang Mal Cha) T:1 The Dungeons of Doom level: 1 14:35 * mcw won the race 14:35 alrighty 14:35 Baracngmalcha 14:35 Sounds like a demon lord 14:35 barangmalcha * 14:35 <[Demo]> I can't manage keys for shit 14:35 Slash'EM extended updated (us and eu) 14:36 [Demo]: how do you get into your house? 14:36 mcw: congrats, it will now get added to slex 14:36 <[Demo]> physical keys I can do 14:36 aosdict: heh 14:36 [Demo]: get a yubi key for your ssh then? 14:36 !whereis k2 14:36 K2: [hdf-us] k2 is not currently playing on this server. 14:36 <[Demo]> I have a lot of ssh 14:36 woot 14:36 <[Demo]> that would take a lot of physical keys 14:36 [Demo]: you can set up multiple ssh keys on a single yubi 14:37 <[Demo]> how much does one of those cost? 14:37 50 usd or something 14:37 relatively cheap 14:37 Not super expensive yeah 14:37 <[Demo]> it's cheaper to just use passwords 14:37 is winny the same as winsalot 14:37 no i wish 14:37 [Demo]: until you VIOLATE GDPR 14:37 i wish i win a lot 14:37 winny: are you named after a horse? 14:37 Cos of the sound they make 14:37 !tell LarienTelrunya slex 2.2.2 is now up on both hdf servers 14:37 Will do, K2! 14:38 i wish 14:38 not cos of your peepee size 14:38 how dare K2 violate GDPR by making our personal ttyrecs available to the public without making us sign a waiver first 14:38 jeez get your mind out of the gutter 14:38 aosdict: yeah! get'im! 14:38 * mcw calls the eu president 14:38 Wait, we're basically not part of the eu anymore 14:38 Not allowed to do that :-( 14:39 Ok if I'm setting a canonical and final WIDTH/HEIGHT for tubhack, do I go 80/20? 14:39 And if not, why different? 14:39 Trying to think of reasons to make it 78... 14:39 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 14:39 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 14:39 Various variants are 76-80x20-21 ? 14:39 nethack is 78x21 yes (but the 21st row almost never gets used) 14:39 <@kritixilithos> mcw: IIRC gdpr still applies to uk 14:39 Definitely not going 21 it is just weird. 14:40 krit I was just making a cheap brexit joke :( 14:40 Unless I go in multiples of 7 for everything, width 77, height 21 14:40 11x3 14:40 would work... 14:40 I think nethack just does 78 so that there's a margin. 14:40 * mcw shakes head 14:40 So it only uses 76? 14:41 78. 14:41 But can guarantee walls either side 14:41 Hmm, so there's a margin for *what*? 14:41 78, with 2 guaranteed *spaces* on either side. 14:41 Oh, like always complete rock either side 14:41 mcw: My recomendation is to let each level specify its own width/height. 14:41 I guess the map looks less clean with | right up against the terminal edge. 14:41 jonadab: sure, but max! 14:41 So that if you decide to change the width/height later, you don't lose all your special levels. 14:41 aosdict: so the levels are 76 wide with some padding? ;) 14:42 mcw: Not necessarily, there's nothing saying the left and right margins have to be walls. 14:42 jonadab: special levels already can specify a geometry and alignment in the "greater" level, so I think that should work 14:42 Bar-fila, for example. 14:42 gumble 14:42 grumble 14:42 would pushing for 80 screw up anyone's carefully calibrated terminal size? 14:42 no 14:42 Can't remmeber if the status bar goes to 80 anyway? 14:43 If the whole game display can be 80x24, everyone's terminal will be ok. 14:43 the status bar can exceed 80 14:43 Right that's what I thought 14:43 But personally I can't stand 80x24, because then you get like a one-line message area, which is bad and wrong. 14:43 I'll aim for 80x20 because it's a nice round number. 14:43 jonadab: this is just the map area 14:43 jonadab: the message window gets whatever is left of your terminal after the map + status bar 14:43 80x20 default map size seems ok. 14:44 let's see if it all dies.:) 14:44 Although if you want to import NetHack .des files, you might have to make it 80x21. 14:44 Looks OK https://i.imgur.com/mii5DxS.png 14:44 jonadab: I'd just chop off the bottom if there's a .des that *uses* the 21st 14:45 and spit out a warning or something 14:45 the vast vast vast majority are <21 14:45 Actually not sure whether vanilla status bar can go off 80 14:45 in xnh, yes, since you can have a long name 14:46 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 14:46 hrrm, does row 0 and HEIGHT-1 always have to be rock/wall? 14:46 -!- stenno is now known as Guest4093 14:46 does/do 14:47 I think not? See e.g. Juiblex' Swamp, which I think has no rock or wall anywhere on it at all. 14:47 (However, if you're using the maze generator, the rules are different.) 14:47 no walls Juiblex level 14:48 Ah good call jubi 14:48 Same for Medusa 14:48 [hdf-us] [xnh] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3575 14:48 jubi is max level size? 14:49 Yes, it is 78x21 14:49 * aosdict adds "Juiblex Jubilee 2008" to the list of future T-shirts 14:50 [hdf-us] [nh361] Wolfechu (Sam Hum Fem Law), 17597 points, T:9381, petrified by touching a chickatrice corpse bare-handed 14:50 -!- Guest4093 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:50 Medusa's does have walls, just not at all of the edges. 14:50 Ah interesting but the .des only specifies the inner map 14:50 The outer border is filled to } 14:50 Yes, the .des file specifies that terrain type. 14:51 <@Winsalot> ffs, almost died to arch-troll in slex 14:51 Err, how do multiple MAP directives work? 14:51 They all get placed, and the GEOMETRY says where. 14:52 However, it is possible (the vanilla .des files don't do this) to have ones that overlap. 14:52 dnethack makes extensive use of that. 14:52 As far as I can tell the juib ones are overwritten? 14:52 @Winsalot you playing on em.slashem.me ? 14:52 <@Winsalot> yeah 14:52 cool 14:52 mcw: Wait, are they? I definitely was not aware of that. 14:52 Let me look at that level, one moment. 14:52 <@Winsalot> Started while 2.22 wasnt on hdf yet 14:52 how is 2.2.2 so far? 14:52 jonadab: Don't they overlap in Asmodeus' Lair? 14:53 aosdict: I think they just bang up against each other, perfectly? Not 100% certain on that one. 14:53 Ah no, they do not. 14:53 https://i.imgur.com/498Kk9i.png that's what got generated 14:54 https://pastebin.com/raw/6gx4PHVD 14:54 That's the relevant bits of the .des 14:54 there is no geometry that matches the second MAP at the right,top 14:54 mcw: Ok, see how each MAP in the juiblex level is preceded by a GEOMETRY ? 14:54 The first one goes left,bottom. That's the down stairs. 14:55 The second one goes right,top, that's the up stairs. 14:55 Yeah 14:55 But the up stairs is not in the top right? 14:55 The third one goes center, center, which is the bulk of the lair. 14:55 tfw "a wave of psychic energy" pours over you on dungeon level 5 14:55 Is it top-aligned with the center portion maybe? 14:56 I haven't looked through the code that decides the actual coordinates. 14:56 The center bit at 51x18 14:56 is* 14:57 What I want to do is implement the ability for a MAP section to contain areas that are blank/transparent and let the filler algorithm handle those areas. 14:57 oh it does mazewalk as well 14:57 jonadab: that's on my list 14:57 jonadab: so you'd specify like ZZZZZZ for maze 14:57 RRRR for rooms etc 14:58 mazewalk considers } as a wall? 14:58 mcw: I was thinking ???? for "don't use the MAP to decide this area, let the base generator handle that. 14:58 So it could be maze, or cavern, or whatever. 14:58 jonadab: Ah yeah 14:58 mcw: You can tell mazewalk which characters to use. But there are limits. 14:58 Not every possible combination will work. 14:58 jonadab: but if you did want a hint it'd be nice to be able to semi-override 14:58 jonadab: A problem with this approach is that often the special level gets plopped down *after* level generation, not first. 14:58 jonadab: you can't specify a char to MAZEWALK in the .des though? 14:59 aosdict: That's fine, in that case, just don't wipe out what's already there in those areas. 14:59 Which could break levels. (and is why sometimes in minetown you get a random closet in the top of a shop). 14:59 mcw: I think you can, indirectly. 14:59 ah? 14:59 I thought mazewalk's okay() was hardcoded 14:59 Aren't there two terrain types defined at the beginning of the level definition? 14:59 * mcw checks 14:59 I didn't think okay() cared 14:59 could have misread though 14:59 INIT_MAP:mines,'.','}',true,true,unlit,false 14:59 jonadab: Ideally you should plop down special level bits *first* and then run the generator that can handle going around them. 15:00 jonadab: sure but I don't think walkfrom+okay look at that? 15:00 aosdict: That would also be a good way to do it, yes. 15:00 I could be compeltely wrong how it works of course! 15:00 mcw: Isn't there more than one walkfrom implementation? 15:00 https://pastebin.com/xj8b8c5f 15:00 jonadab: 15:00 you do not put that evil on me 15:00 No 15:00 If there is I am going to be somewhat angry 15:00 -!- Tariru has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:01 miniwalk() is one 15:01 Doesn't look like it, sp_lev.c calls walkfrom 15:01 walkfrom() is the other. 15:01 jonadab: miniwalk is only for roguelevel I *think* 15:01 Oh, maybe. 15:01 mcw: There is still rows/columns cut off 15:01 It's in extralev.c 15:02 But yes, looks mostly good now 15:02 At least, it's static in extralev.c 15:02 FIQ: cut off? 15:02 https://i.imgur.com/iFiGCmM.png 15:02 FIQ: you mean the map isn't aligned properly in the dungeon 15:02 I mean you are missing lines 15:02 on top 15:02 At the bottom or top? 15:02 * aosdict wants to kill the Rogue level and extralev.c completely 15:02 Yeah 15:02 and bottom 15:02 and on left 15:02 I need to shift it down and wallify the borders correctly 15:02 but not right 15:02 mcw: Anyway, walkfrom takes three arguments: x and y coords, and a terrain type. 15:02 Ah 15:03 no it doesn't! 15:03 461 void 15:03 462 walkfrom(struct level *lev, int x, int y) 15:03 Unless you are nh3? 15:03 This is nh4 ^ 15:03 You're also not wallifying correctly at the far left above the level teleporters 15:03 but I guess you know this 15:03 mcw: Oh, NH4. 15:03 I was looking at 3.6 15:03 FIQ: the quad wall? 15:03 jonadab: I think 3.6 made a bunch of stuff better 15:03 jonadab: will steal it once 3.4-style stuff works 15:04 Right, NH4 walkfrom is different. 15:04 mcw: x:0-2 y:11-12 15:04 so is tubhack based off of nh3 or nh4? 15:04 starting from 0,0 15:04 K2: most of the code I'm looking at is nh4, but the actual implementation is 95% from-scratch. 15:04 Maybe 90% 15:05 oh... awesome 15:05 FIQ: I think once I do the border walls the wallification will fix that (I hope) 15:05 thats right, you're writing this in c++ 15:05 [hdf-us] [xnh] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 865 points, T:4785, killed by a bolt of fire 15:05 K2: aye! 15:05 mcw: Don't forget to also look at move() 15:05 mcw: It wouldn't fix x:1 y:12 15:05 But yeah. 15:05 Which should be unaffected by the offset x/y 15:05 am concluding that xnh is a little harder in the beginning on the basis of encountering a mind flayer on level 5 15:06 nooodle: could just be bad luck 15:06 nooodle: In the Mines? 15:06 The rng watches us all 15:06 the northwards connection shouldn't be there 15:06 FIQ: hrrm 15:06 on that tile 15:06 jonadab: yup 15:06 minesflayers happen even in 3.4.3, just not very often. 15:06 fuck it I need to draw col/row headers 15:06 would make this a lot easier :) 15:06 jonadab: oh... i had no idea. first time for me then! 15:06 2 secs 15:06 nooodle: Yeah, I've not seen them very often myself. 15:06 here is how it should be 15:06 can monsters use fire horns in vanilla nh? or is that an xnh addition? 15:06 Except when NH4 had a bug that made them too frequent. 15:07 !streak hypnotist 15:07 nooodle: [hdf-us] hypnotist Max[nh361]: 2 (2018-04-24 - 2018-04-30)(current). 15:07 nooodle: [hdf-eu] No streaks for hypnotist on this server. 15:07 nooodle: That's vanilla, I haven't touched muse code. 15:07 I've seen monsters use fire horns in 3.6.0 and 3.6.1 (dev) 15:07 also the mind flayer is not anything special 15:07 raisse: haven't you heard? it isn't dev anymore! 15:07 aosdict : I really like it so far. The color changes for monsters are much appreciated. Hardest thing to get used to so far is the lower monster gen. Feels more like crawl, which isn't a bad thing 15:08 aosdict: I've heard, but I haven't played enough non-dev to meet any monsters using fire or frost horns 15:08 Hm. I'm not trying to make nethack-crawl. 15:08 x:0 y:11 stone, x:1 y:11 llcorner, x:2 y:11 hline, x:0 y:12 ulcorner, x:1 y:12 hline 15:08 x:2 y:12 is correct 15:08 the prevention of stepping in water is also more crawl like. :) which is also not a bad thing 15:08 The lower monster gen is apparently something everyone else mildly disagrees with 15:09 apropos of minesflayers, every mines level has 1 random h (with normal distribution) so that could turn out a flayer 15:09 safe liquids are NH4. :) 15:09 aosdict: well it definitely makes it harder for tourists, and I'd imagine it would be MUCH harder for pacifists and blind conduct 15:09 mcw: Some of my level generator Perl scripts contain a wallification algorithm by ais523, that works very well. 15:09 raisse : wow... learn something new all the time. cool. 15:09 aosdict: yeah I don't like it 15:10 of course flayers are rare, so it's usually just another dwarf 15:10 nooodle: Yes, the unbalanced effect of lowering the monster generation is that there are just not as many items. I need to boost the number of items. 15:10 @ changed monster gen 15:10 aosdict: It also means blind players will have a much harder time getting a floating eye 15:10 jonadab: that wallification algoritm does the exact same mistakes 15:10 ayep 15:10 as mcw's do here 15:10 *does 15:10 FIQ: Oh? 15:10 Hmm. 15:10 my blind strategy was basically to get to a chokepoint and wait for a floating eye, or starvation 15:11 nooodle: but preserving the difficulty of conducts is not a priority at all 15:11 jonadab: what I am saying is 15:11 that's valid 15:11 that wallification algo 15:11 always connect walls if there is a nearby wall 15:11 *always* 15:11 even when it shouldn't 15:11 jonadab: look at the image https://i.imgur.com/iFiGCmM.png 15:11 <@Winsalot> Just got levelported to DL1 in slex. I was in about DL30. Fucking slex... 15:11 at the level teleporter areas 15:12 there are excess connections there 15:12 FIQ: Oh, that, right. 15:12 That situation almost never occurs in vanilla, but yes. 15:13 it occurs plenty in the mines... 15:13 and with widemazes with 2-thick walls 15:14 algo unchanged - https://i.imgur.com/qaubGw8.png just added some headers 15:14 Ah, yes, widemazes. I almost forgt vanilla has those now. 15:14 And very much appreciate the help here. :) 15:14 Not sure I've ever seen it in the Mines. 15:15 FIQ: I think it's just how I am drawing the glyphs there 15:15 So two paralel walls should *not* join to each other? 15:15 jonadab: http://home.fiq.se/first_mines_level.png 15:15 mcw: No 15:15 mcw: See the wallification logic in the xnethack-extras repo, I think that is more or less correct. 15:16 jonadab: look at the cursor 15:16 as I said 15:16 This isn't wallification, it's just rendering, (assuming they are not the same thing) 15:16 it occurs plenty in mines 15:16 mcw: wallification is what sets the correct wall orientations 15:16 FIQ: that is the *correct* rendering in that screenshot right? 15:17 you can run wallification more than once to re-orient things if you change stuff 15:17 Ah ok, I thought wallifcation was removing excess walls, I call the fixup "FixupWalls" 15:17 mcw: that is NetHack itself, so yes :) 15:17 mcw: anyway, your thing would create another wall connector 15:17 1up 1right 15:17 from the cursor 15:17 Yeah should be easy to fix 15:17 which is incorrect 15:17 gimme a min 15:17 Yeah I do a really simple algo for it 15:17 this is what I am referencing 15:18 *referring to 15:18 I basically just make a bitfield 15:18 fill it if there is a wall to N/E/S/W 15:18 then choose the orientation based on that 15:18 (and as for the image name, that was a jab at jonadab's "Not sure I've ever seen it in the Mines.") 15:18 I don't consider if there is another wall 15:18 he just hasn't noticed it, it's really common :) 15:19 I think I just need to consider diagonals 15:19 mcw: NetHack has a bitfield for this basically 15:19 FIQ: That image looks correct to me? 15:19 jonadab: yes 15:19 what I am saying is 15:19 Oh, I see. 15:19 My algo would connect the two || walls 15:19 I was giving examples to when ais' wallification fails 15:19 and mcw 15:19 Right, ok, yeah. 15:19 they do the same mistake 15:19 Because it just looks at the manhattan neighbours of a wall 15:20 So it sees there is a wall both east/west so considers it horizontal 15:20 That's why I haven't seen it in the Mines, then: it doesn't happen in-game. 15:20 aosdict: cheers 15:20 aosdict: will look at that 15:21 aosdict: fix_wall_splines right? 15:21 eyah 15:22 yeah 15:22 well, it doesn't do box drawing chars 15:22 ascii only 15:22 aye 15:22 same principle 15:22 should be reasonably simple fix (I hope) 15:22 just need some pen and paper 15:22 I suppose it won't work for this then since everything except vertical walls and vertical T walls are just - 15:23 btw I was noticing the random holes in the mazewalk for missing spots 15:23 but then I looked at my catacombs level 15:23 and realized it did the same thing... 15:23 so I guess I can't blame you 15:25 :p 15:25 I think it's how the .des is set up 15:25 it has some extra holes and --- in places. 15:26 jonadab: btw I think the level gen function names might be unusually bad even for NetHack 15:26 the vast majority of the function names is outright misleading 15:26 anyone wants to help me document them, don't hold back 15:27 FIQ: The worst thing there is that there are several instances of two names that are similar and pronounced the same. 15:27 What I'd really like to see is a call tree showing which functions call which others. 15:27 jonadab: yeah but 15:27 makemaz doesn't just make mazes but acts as a general level loading 15:27 the actual maze making is "walkfrom" 15:27 Oh, right, the word "maze" doesn't mean maze. 15:28 The word "maze" means MAZE-type level, as opposed to ROOM-type. 15:28 makemaz = make MAZE-style level 15:28 yes 15:28 Which, yes, those are kind of bad names. 15:28 FIQ: Not sure at what point I should refactor those names. 15:28 But I understood it from previously working with .des format. 15:29 mcw: apparently the relevant function in NH that fixes those particular wall issues is extend_spine 15:37 oh oh I broke something 15:45 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Ran Elf Mal Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping 6 arrows on an altar, on T:7987 15:45 !who 15:45 FIQ: [hdf-us] k2 [sp] hothraxxa [xnh] hypnotist [xnh] 15:45 FIQ: [hdf-eu] No current players 15:46 [hdf-us] [xnh] hypnotist (Cav Gno Fem Neu) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:4159 15:46 * raisse is too tired to play (but not to hang out on IRC) 15:46 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 15:47 -!- stenno is now known as Guest81869 15:47 raisse: why so tired? 15:48 I've been travelling all morning and traipsing through a busy city (Barcelona) on foot all afternoon and half the evening. 15:48 coming back from holiday 15:48 I love barcelona but it's exhausting 15:48 we wanted to go to the museum but it's closed on Mondays 15:49 also I have bad hay fever from birches and/or plane trees 15:49 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought 15:49 [hdf-us] [xnh] hypnotist (Cav Gno Fem Neu), 2723 points, T:4255, killed by a mumak 15:50 FIQ: https://i.imgur.com/Fs8tJim.png 15:50 some slight excess walls 15:50 but I think they look nice 15:50 hey you fixed the offsets 15:50 raisse: you are there for the krita thing 15:51 FIQ: yeah, just nudged it down by one, not a proper fix! 15:51 "some" 15:51 you mean 1 15:51 13,1 15:51 mcw: no, we were in sevilla for libre graphics meeting but we tacked some holiday on to it 15:51 oh and 12,1 15:51 1,13? 15:51 raisse: I was close! 15:51 er yeah 15:51 1,12-13 15:51 raisse: your wife does krita? 15:51 -!- Guest81869 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:51 FIQ: eh, at some point Iw ill fix those 15:51 no, that's my husband, I'm the wife :-) 15:51 But it looks nice at the moment 15:52 raisse: I was close!!! 15:52 Wait, what's the husband called? 15:52 Is it something suspiciously familiar... 15:52 Boudewijn Rempt 15:52 Grumble 15:52 I remember things but not well enough :( 15:52 why grumble? 15:52 ah, right, that 15:53 mcw: topmost x is 78 (NH4) or 79 (NH3) 15:53 topmost y is 20 on both 15:53 so you're still missing an y 15:54 https://krita.org/en/support-us/donations/ boudewijn: far left, me: just left of center, blue dress 15:54 of course the entire maze is shifted upwards leftwards copmared to how it should be 15:54 too 15:54 FIQ: I'm 80x20! 15:54 screw nh4! 15:54 screw nh3! 15:54 round numbers! 15:54 screw everything! 15:55 raisse: nice! I love krita. :) 15:55 Though my current opensource donations go to blender 15:55 Because that was my true first love 15:55 mcw: 79x21 is NH dimensions 15:56 FIQ: just to be awkward! 15:56 naturally :) 15:56 FIQ: the geometry says align center,bottom 15:56 FIQ: but I ignore that, will adjust at some point 15:56 Wanna make sure the region and objects get draw correctly first though 15:56 honestly I have no idea why it isn't 80x20 15:56 hmmmmmm my cat is eyeing up my wild turkey 15:57 and has a greedy look on his stupid little face 15:57 FIQ: to annoy us most likely 15:58 also the nonjoining lines is bugging me 15:58 but I'm going to blame your font 15:59 FIQ: combo of font and me not drawing it in the right pixel! 15:59 Hmm, do you think a completely lone wall would look better as □ ? 15:59 Currently it's - 15:59 The lines would join up correctly if I did it on the console, ironically 16:00 see 16:00 console master race 16:00 mcw: wallification replaces freestanding walls with solid rock 16:01 huh 16:01 ones surrounded by stone 16:01 it actually leaves one surrounded by non-stones completely alone 16:01 http://home.fiq.se/catacombs.png 16:01 - would look better than square btw 16:01 Aye 16:01 IMO 16:01 nethack currently uses - 16:02 ït doesn't 16:02 "even though this table says VWALL, we actually leave whatever typ was there alone" 16:02 Look at the catacombs.png to the right of the ^, near-ish the middle 16:02 Oh fine it is either | or - :p 16:03 * NCommander waves 16:03 mcw: but yeah 16:03 ahoy there NCommander 16:03 IMO I'd just leave them at | or - 16:03 whatever works 16:03 but it's better than square IMO 16:03 Could be an option! 16:03 mcw, how goes it? 16:03 More options = better game 16:03 NCommander: good, though currenyl having to beat my cat away from my whiskey 16:03 he keeps coming and sniffing at the bottle 16:03 heh 16:03 little fucker 16:04 * NCommander is recovering from feeling like an ass for doing the right thing :/ 16:04 mcw: I suspect it's - in the screenshot because - walls are used in the .des 16:04 Quit my position as CTO at a startup I was involved in 16:04 I think he's trying to get his own back because I was kareokeing Evanescence at him earlier! 16:04 NCommander: eh 16:04 if it used | walls, it would probably have ended up being a | 16:04 NCommander: :( 16:04 mcw: so there you go 16:04 FIQ: true 16:04 FIQ: don't think normal level gen can ever generate a standalone wall right? 16:05 no 16:05 it can as a side effect of maze_remove_loops (3.6.1) 16:05 not sure what wall it becomes then 16:05 NCommander: startup doing unethical stuff, or something? 16:05 mcw, yeah, I was really unhappy with both the work and a lot of things and I had lost faith; not the right person to be involved in getting a company off the ground. Just finished that conversation with the CEO 16:05 NCommander: sorry to hear 16:06 NCommander: take my advice and find a bottle of your favourite liquor 16:06 aosdict, no; I actually like the guy. It's why I felt like an ass, but I've already done the "continue at job I hate" and paid that price before 16:06 that will never judge you 16:06 mcw, I don't drink in RL often 16:06 mcw: the amount you talk about alcohol is slightly off-putting 16:06 aosdict: sorry 16:06 I think mcw drinks the most in here by far 16:06 helps to sleep etc 16:07 will try to not discuss as much 16:07 um 16:07 ok so 16:07 I just realized 16:07 that in my screenshot 16:07 below the fountain to the left 16:07 there is a tile of solid rock 16:08 what 16:08 what happened there 16:08 FIQ: ghost? 16:08 no 16:08 under the fountain 16:08 ghost is W in NH4 16:08 and I farlooked 16:08 it's solid rock 16:08 strange 16:08 http://home.fiq.se/solid_rock.pn 16:08 mazewalk yo 16:08 mcw, reminds of Kingdom of Loathing. Drinking for adventures 16:08 g 16:08 http://home.fiq.se/solid_rock.png 16:09 * NCommander wishes he had the time to create his own variant; the idea won't vacate my head 16:09 I've already been mentally thinking how to redesign things castle->onward :( 16:09 NCommander: you have to trade in having much of a social life :) 16:09 you get a variant! and you get a variant! everyone gets a variant! 16:09 NCommander: I am a hoarder of ideas 16:09 rock surrounded by rock! 16:10 by all means let me have them 16:10 well I also feel like there's a minimium bar to set to be honested on hardfought, and forking off FIQHack just means I stand off less :P 16:10 *hosted on 16:10 the alternative is working on an existing variant, nobody seems to want to do that for some reason 16:10 aosdict, well some I doubt you'd use; sokoban getting rm -rf'ed is the very first thing I'd do, replaced with a dungeon branch I call the minotaur's maze. 16:10 aosdict: Simple reason 16:10 aosdict eh? 16:10 People always have things they disagree on 16:11 aosdict, I actually made a pull request against SLEX 16:11 we still tweak grunthack and sporkhack some 16:11 So they want to make their own variant 16:11 WIth the favorite stuff they like 16:11 sporkhack needs some love actually before junethack 16:11 K2: Yes, but you're not actually adding features, right? 16:11 I think out of current variants that exist 16:11 Also, I meant stuff like joining an active variant developer, like Elronnd. 16:11 QoL yes, but actual new content? no 16:11 the one I would probably contribute to the most likely 16:12 if I didn't have FIQHack 16:12 would probably be xnethack or 4k 16:12 depending on how much I like my ANSI 16:12 I still feel like FIQ is trying to build a full AI in FIQHack. it's getting to the point of Dwarf Fortress levels of self-awareness. 16:12 it's just that my view on things is very distinct from most variants 16:12 in terms of AI and monster/player symmetry 16:13 the only variant which actually preached this is grunthack 16:13 FIQ, last I remember, the only item the AI won't use period is the /oWishing, right? 16:13 Yes they will. 16:13 NCommander: The AI does use wands of wishing in FIQHack 16:13 Oh that's evil. 16:13 And they'll wish *intelligently*. 16:13 But not the castle wand 16:13 * NCommander got genocided in FIQHack :) 16:13 grunthack as well 16:13 to an extent 16:13 they don't have a key to the chest? 16:13 RIP team H 16:13 er, h 16:13 aosdict: Questionable. The AI wish logic isn't as cruel as Grunt 16:14 basically, I wanted to account for the possibility of a random earlygame monster finding one 16:14 and not basically being an instant death 16:14 Soldiers do wish intelligently, though 16:14 intelligent monsters in gh will use a wand of wishing and will wish for blessed ? of charging, but wont use said scroll to recharge the wand 16:14 K2: They will 16:14 If it's 0:0 16:14 i've never seen it 16:14 and there isn't anything else they want to reacharge 16:15 *recharge 16:15 So gnomes won't wish for a wand of death and then immolate you? 16:15 * NCommander has died due to that :( 16:15 NCommander: In Grunt they will 16:15 In FIQHack, they wish for gems 16:15 I think someone named their "oLS "fuck gnomes" 16:15 specifically for this reason 16:15 a gnome wasted a wand of wishing on gems 16:15 *ouch* 16:15 At least they won't wrest the last charge and they can be recharged. 16:15 Gems are points yo 16:15 ... I hope 16:16 NCommander: Oh they do wrest in FIQHack 16:16 Not in grunt 16:16 However 16:16 They will not wish for charging 16:16 And will only wrest a 1:0 wand 16:16 FIQ, .... IS NOTHING SACRED?! */s* 16:16 Unlike grunt 16:16 basically, my logic was this 16:16 a player who finds a wand of wishing in first place 16:16 FIQ, now you need to make player monsters mount ki-rins, and astral can be even MORE deadly. 16:16 is already really lucky 16:16 so there's no harm in "decreasing" said luck 16:17 by this logic I should arguably let monsters wish for charging 16:17 but meh 16:18 FIQ, so when do you implement it that if the amulet is stolen from you on the Astral Plane, a monster can sacrifice it on the high altar and ascend into demigodhood :) 16:18 NCommander: Oh, that's already a feature 16:19 ... really? 16:19 It appears FIQ does think of everything. 16:19 However I haven't addressed NetHack's shitty "general movement AI" 16:19 NCommander: Well 16:19 Have I told you about the one time I was trying to track down a bug where Asmo polymorphed himself? 16:19 that someone found 16:19 O_o? 16:19 Turns out, there was no bug 16:19 The player was hitting him with a cockatrice corpse 16:20 And he had no other way of saving himself 16:20 ... I didn't know polyself would actually save you in that case. 16:20 It can if you're lucky 16:20 into something acidic, yes 16:20 and get an acidic polyform 16:20 or a golem form 16:20 And this Asmodeus got lcky 16:20 *lucky 16:20 He became a gelatinous cube 16:20 heh 16:21 FIQ, did you figure out how I broke plane of air? 16:21 He died anyway, but eh 16:21 aosdict: I hope you are not upset at me, for whatever that's worth. :-\ 16:21 nice try 16:21 NCommander: I told you a few days ago 16:21 mcw: I'm not upset at anyone, why would I be 16:21 All the monsters somehow got the covetous-only "reacts once you get close" 16:21 Dunno, wasn't sure how to take your comment 16:21 FIQ, I saw you tracked to M2_CLOSE but not why it broke; I'm guessing an issue with initial generation? 16:21 FIQ, right, I meant how that happened. 16:22 I didn't look into why 16:22 ah 16:22 but I suspect I know what happened 16:22 Yeenoghu had that flag on him 16:22 probably I had broken covetous behaviour in some way 16:22 to flip that flag on for other monsters 16:22 when Yeenoghu was considering what to do 16:22 I would think the same problem would have happened on Earth or Fire though :/ 16:22 since then I have done some refactorings to covetous behaviour 16:23 so I don't think the bug is there anymore 16:23 NCommander: probably some edge case 16:23 [hdf-us] [xnh] hypnotist (Pri Hum Fem Neu), 1896 points, T:3302, killed by a watch captain 16:23 i suck at xnh 16:23 how'd you anger him 16:24 Attack a peaceful G or h? 16:24 i attacked a monkey that i assumed was hostile, but i guess it wasn't 16:24 mcw: I think aosdict simply meant that your comments on drinking puts him off, but not enough to complain, until now 16:24 it was a minetown monkey. Thought they were always hostile 16:24 and that it's a slight hint to cut that down 16:24 FIQ: I try to tone down 16:24 i.e. not a real problem so far 16:24 Minetown Watch: Murder and death is OK, but god forbid you poke a fountain. 16:24 nooodle: I think neutral they are more likely to be peaceful 16:25 that's unfortunate 16:25 mcw: basically 16:25 talk about drinking less 16:25 and then there shouldn't be any problem 16:25 simple as that 16:25 it's not like you spam about it now anyway, just a bit much according to aosdict 16:26 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26 FWIW I agree with aosdict here 16:26 I just never complained because I don't drink *at all* and figured I was in the minority 16:27 But I don't find it a big issue, not now anyway 16:27 I find most geeks drink a lot. Or at least at conferences. 16:27 * NCommander always felt like the odd man out :/ 16:27 NCommander: haha @ watch 16:28 NCommander: I used to do Khronos meetings (for OpenGL and Vulkan) and yes 16:28 Fact is you are stuck in a meeting room 8am-6pm in some random location 16:28 mcw, far too many Ubuntu Developer Summits. We drank a small corner of Orlando dry. 16:28 not much else to do, also extremely high tension after meetings 16:28 NCommander: aye 16:28 NCommander: Ah. I just don't drink apart from special occasions (and even then, only rarely, and almost nothing) 16:28 (the guys at 7-11 remembers us from the previous year and one of them ragequit. I saw the keg delivery truck hours later) 16:28 I suspect also cultural differences 16:29 NCommander: Ian Romanick almost got us kicked out of our hotel because he brought his homebrew 16:29 "special occasions" being, for example, "I graduated" 16:29 And got very "I'm an American" when they told him he wasn't allowed to 16:29 so yeah, almsot never 16:29 *almost 16:29 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:29 mcw, that's some rocket fuel 16:33 aosdict: I wouldn't call myself an active variant developer 16:33 I need to be an adult 16:33 And leave here 16:33 ttyl 16:33 apparently we are all children then 16:34 Elronnd: Sure, but my point was you joined LT on her variant rather than going off and making your own 16:34 I did though 16:34 https://github.com/Elronnd/slashem-next 16:47 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 16:48 -!- stenno is now known as Guest84816 16:52 -!- Guest84816 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:53 Elronnd: Are you going to fix the bug where it's technically possible to survive in some cases? 16:59 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 17:03 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 17:03 <@FIQ> @mtf rip rld 17:03 <@mtf> this is getting ridiculous 17:03 <@mtf> why is it going down all the tiem 17:04 <@mtf> I can't be restarting it every day =/ 17:04 <@FIQ> it's back 17:04 <@FIQ> thanks 17:04 <@FIQ> if you didn't do anything 17:04 <@mtf> I didn't 17:04 <@FIQ> your server conection is probably just shit 😛 17:04 <@mtf> I mean, I doubt it 17:04 <@mtf> worked fine for months 17:04 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06 famous last words by mtf 17:06 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 17:06 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 17:07 <@mtf> any idea where that's located? 17:07 <@mtf> I don't see it 17:07 <@FIQ> the one that logs connections and stuff 17:07 <@FIQ> I know it exists 17:07 <@FIQ> but I forgot what it's called 17:07 <@FIQ> lol 17:07 <@mtf> didn't I give you access to the server? would you mind taking a look? I'm really flooded at work right now 17:07 <@FIQ> ah I'm thinking of auth.log I think 17:07 <@FIQ> but that's just ssh 17:07 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 17:08 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 17:08 bot is back, for now 17:09 <@FIQ> they probably know unix stuff in general better than this discord 17:09 <@FIQ> 😛 17:10 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12 FIQ: I don't trust you 17:12 show me some evidence that this bot is back 17:19 quiet you 17:23 Gentlemen are crying "Bot, bot!", but there is no bot. 17:23 The netsplit has already begun! 17:23 Our clients are already disconnected. Why sit we here idle? 17:24 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 17:24 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 17:25 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 17:27 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 17:28 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 17:29 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 17:31 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 17:34 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 17:49 -!- stenno is now known as Guest19132 17:52 -!- Guest19132 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:53 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:4929 17:57 from things i would never know without reading the 3.6.1 changelog: wielded aklys behaves like Mjollnir when thrown--it usually returns; unlike Mjollnir, it isn't limited to Valkyries or need gauntlets of power (so far, hero-only; an aklys won't return if thrown by a monster) 17:58 i have played many gnomes and never once has it occurred to me to wield an aklys, let alone throw one 18:01 I think this was an effort to make aklyses worth using 18:01 -!- puck_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:02 it can actually be quite good as a limited ranged weapon 18:02 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 18:05 hm. slightly better than dagger but 50% heavier 18:08 well it's interesting and possibly useful in some cases, but not many 18:08 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Ran Elf Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (class L), on T:44008 18:10 -!- MysteryMyra has joined #hardfought 18:20 [hdf-us] [fh] K (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 34996 points, T:2647, killed by a dwarf, while sleeping 18:25 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Ran Elf Fem Cha) had Sting bestowed upon her by Mars, on T:45634 18:31 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Ran Elf Fem Cha) had Trollsbane bestowed upon her by Mars, on T:45724 18:32 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 6394 points, T:8476, killed by an owlbear 18:33 !asc hypnotist 18:33 nooodle: [hdf-us] hypnotist has ascended 2 times in 6 games (33.33%): nh361:2 (66.67%) 18:49 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 18:49 -!- stenno is now known as Guest82701 18:51 -!- [Demo]1 has joined #hardfought 18:54 -!- Guest82701 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:54 -!- [Demo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:03 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Ran Elf Fem Cha) had Orcrist bestowed upon her by Mars, on T:45942 19:03 !tell raisse @ your question about monsters using the castle wand in FIQHack -- no, lacking a key isn't a problem, the chest is specifically coded as such that monsters will ignore 1 (but not more than that) wands of wishing in it 19:03 Will do, FIQ! 19:04 !tell raisse monsters do use keys, wands of opening and the knock spell if they can, to get inside a chest... but they will not loot a magic chest for now 19:04 Will do, FIQ! 19:06 nooodle: nice asc rate 19:18 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 19:18 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 19:20 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 19:22 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 19:22 ok ffs, please work now 19:22 fully updated the bot and reworked some of the config 19:33 Does NH4 and variant have spider caverns, dragon caves, or the ice world maps? 19:33 No, I believe those are Slash'EM only. 19:33 Or maybe dnethack. 19:33 Unnethack has the dragon caves I think? 19:34 Oh? I haven't played much Un, really should at some point. 19:34 Those are some nice extra levels. Dragon caves for scales, spiders for loot. 19:36 In general, I feel that most of Slash'EM's added levels are not conducive to the type of variant I want Fourk to be. 19:45 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Medusa, on T:47283 19:50 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 19:50 -!- stenno is now known as Guest19940 19:54 -!- Guest19940 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:01 -!- Tariru has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:28 slashem has spider caverns, but none of the others 20:29 wait, it might have the dragaon caves. Or maybe that was slex. Not sure 20:32 [hdf-us] [fh] K (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 35071 points, T:2099, killed by a Ms. Kipawa, the shopkeeper's wand 20:38 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 363 points, T:2669, killed by a giant spider 20:43 Elronnd: Slash'EM has the Wyrm Caves. I died there once. 20:43 Full of dragons. 20:50 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 20:51 -!- stenno is now known as Guest84699 20:55 -!- Guest84699 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:17 <[Demo]1> slashem is god tier 21:17 <[Demo]1> if u don't like it u aren't cool enough to play it and that's why 21:18 <[Demo]1> also it fucking sucks 21:23 [hdf-us] [nh361] koumakan (Ran Elf Mal Cha), 642 points, T:3527, killed by a homunculus, while frozen by a monster's gaze 21:29 [Demo]1, some people get fun out of it 21:29 * NCommander sighs 21:30 <[Demo]1> I sure have 21:44 !who 21:44 K2: [hdf-us] krm26 [fh] 21:44 K2: [hdf-eu] No current players 21:46 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 21:51 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 21:52 -!- stenno is now known as Guest58539 21:52 !lastasc hypnotist 21:52 K2: [hdf-us] (sorry, no dump exists for nh361:hypnotist) 21:52 K2: [hdf-eu] No last ascension recorded 21:55 -!- Guest58539 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:02 -!- tacco| has quit [] 22:17 [hdf-us] [slex] koumakan (Rog Lyc Mal Cha), 256 points, T:447, killed by a monster (vulnerator gnome) 22:18 [hdf-us] [fh] Karma (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 42791 points, T:4596, killed by a fire ant 22:21 -!- Tarmunora has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:34 !whereis 22:34 bug_sniper: !whereis - finds a player in the dungeon. 22:34 !who 22:34 bug_sniper: [hdf-us] hypnotist [nh361] 22:34 bug_sniper: [hdf-eu] No current players 22:35 !whereis hypnotist 22:35 bug_sniper: [hdf-us] hypnotist [nh361]: No details available 22:47 -!- greqrg has quit [Quit: Disconnected] 22:52 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 22:52 -!- stenno is now known as Guest97250 22:58 -!- Guest97250 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03 [hdf-us] [fh] Ao (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 28130 points, T:1252, killed by a gnome lord, while sleeping 23:24 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Bar Hum Fem Neu) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:3664 23:40 [hdf-us] [fh] Ne (krm26) (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 37441 points, T:3029, killed by a rabid rat 23:43 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Bar Hum Fem Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:5263 23:47 [hdf-us] [nh361] hypnotist (Bar Hum Fem Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a master mind flayer, on T:5623 23:54 hah 23:54 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 23:55 -!- stenno is now known as Guest46759 23:55 -!- nooodle has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:59 -!- Guest46759 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]