00:05 -!- khoR has quit [Quit: Khor vanishes in a puff of logic.] 00:06 -!- khoR has joined #hardfought 00:15 [hdf-us] [nd] ORC (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 1161 points, T:2666, quit 00:16 -!- dell00 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 01:44 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:52 -!- Guest18892 has joined #hardfought 02:14 -!- Guest18892 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:21 -!- deadnoob has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:22 -!- Guest18892 has joined #hardfought 02:49 -!- Guest18892 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:01 [hdf-us] [nh4] Minna (Robin) (Mon Hum Fem Cha), 13468 points, T:486, quit 03:09 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 03:27 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 03:27 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 03:42 morning 03:50 morning 03:50 hi mcw 03:50 how's tubhack 03:50 your tubhack links are giving 502 03:52 oh oh 03:53 Oh I know why 03:53 Because I'm an idiot :-) 03:54 Working again? 03:54 My PC rebooted and gogs was running just in a terminal that got closed 03:58 yeah it works 03:59 btw I like how you just go and purchase a domain just like that 03:59 I know that they aren't expensive, but still :P 03:59 I still haven't purchased a fiqhack domain... 04:00 good morning 04:00 and good afternoon, good evening and good night 04:01 I'm playing xnh and have been saccing for a bit, but haven't gotten anything (eg clovers) other than bursts of flame... 04:01 was wondering whether this is a xnh thing or just variant-psychosis 04:02 Are you sacrificing lichens? 04:02 mostly giant rats and such, altar is on lv2 04:02 Otherwise you should get clovers unless aosdict changed something I think 04:02 no lichens yet 04:02 Ah yeah, difficulty 0 doesn't even give clovers I think 04:02 @v?giant rat 04:02 giant rat (r) | Lvl: 1 | Diff: 2 | Spd: 10 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 7 | Attacks: 1d3 bite physical | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, infravisible 04:02 @v?Lichen 04:02 lichen (F) | Lvl: 0 | Diff: 1 | Spd: 1 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 9 | Attacks: 0d0 touch sticky | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, breathless, mindless, vegan 04:03 Hmm it should give clovers then I think... 04:03 Unless luck is maxed, of course 04:03 I thought it didn't matter much for clover purposes, only for mollification and such 04:03 nah, I'm a starting wiz even +1 luck would be great 04:05 FIQ: go get a fiqhack domain, to quote a certain LarienTelrunya *bundlebundlebundle* 04:06 Grasshopper: just checked, it needs at least difficulty 4 04:06 if I am reading this right 04:06 FIQ, oh ok. Nevermind, It's still worth saccing in the hopes of Magicbane 04:08 mcw: Yeah I should 04:08 Unsure what top domain I'd want to use though 04:09 fiqhack.com ? 04:10 Perhaps 04:11 atm Ihave fiq.se 04:11 I could cheap out and use hack.fiq.se, but meh :P 04:11 Not sure if I want to buy fiqhack.se 04:11 or fiqhack.com 04:11 I could always buy both... 04:13 anyway mcw, my plan was to purchase whatever I end up choosing in preparation for a 4.3.1 release 04:14 also need to ask my dns provider if I could buy a partial year, or 1 full + partial year 04:14 so that I can pay for both of my domains at the same time 04:28 Riddle me this - microsoft's VSTS is the only hosted service that is free and you can point at your own git server. 04:28 Obviously once I'm on github I just use travis/circle/whatever 04:30 what is VSTS? 04:30 oh 04:30 some visual studio thing 04:31 Not really (though has the name in it) it's a hosted CI/git/blah thing but it has free linux, mac, and windows build agents 04:32 oh so it's like travis? 04:32 ah 04:32 use it then I suppose until you're on github 04:32 Yeah, like travis but you can point it elsewhere 04:32 Ah the day I get to git remote add github.com will be a happy one 04:33 IRC notifications are nice 04:33 This is my github readiness list https://git.tubhack.com/mcw/tubhack/wiki 04:33 I posted fiqhack on github the moment it became a thing 04:33 before there was any changes 04:33 hell, I host fiqrogue on github 04:34 (mostly because I had to host it *somewhere* for GPL reasons) 04:34 * mcw is scared 04:34 FIQ: can you think of any additions to that list ^ that I've managed to forget 04:34 mcw: btw, before it becomes the work of the century 04:34 you should add channelization 04:35 mcw: I don't know because I don't know how much is done so far 04:35 how are you going to do >52 items 04:35 FIQHack has object memory 04:35 even vanilla has invisible monster markers 04:36 please no amnesia 04:36 it is an evil mechanic that is poor game design 04:36 Channelization? 04:36 The log thing? 04:36 have you played a NH4 variant 04:36 like ever 04:37 infrequently but yes! 04:37 have you seen its message log 04:37 Ooh I know what you mean 04:37 tag the plines so you can filter and stuff? 04:37 excluding the fact that it's more than 1 line, which is IMO the biggest nice thing there 04:38 they're colored/tagged 04:38 that is channelization 04:38 it cannot be configured in NH4 04:38 but was always meant to be possible to configure 04:38 Yes 04:38 Ok, that's actually super easy for me to do 04:39 (this is why it took forever for NH4 mainline to merge it, ais523 eventually realized that sice all NH4 variants already merged it, and nobody really had any issues with it, *any* tagging was better than none, even w/o customization) 04:39 mcw: yeah, you'd want to add this before you have 8k plines ;) 04:39 messages << "You see a door open." << std::flush; -> would just be messages << info_message << "You see a door open." << std::flush; 04:40 yeah 04:40 more or less 04:40 also what is the difference between << parameters 04:40 and , 04:40 as in 04:40 why foo << "bar" << baz 04:40 over foo("bar", baz) 04:41 Because it will process each of "bar" baz separately, one by one 04:41 But honestly it's an idiomatic thing more than anything else 04:41 function parameters are also seperate 04:41 not sure what you mean 04:41 is it variadic? 04:41 Yeah 04:41 ahh 04:41 You can also do stuff like: 04:42 so a prettier variadic implementation basically? 04:42 that doesn't involve messing with VA_ARGS 04:42 messages << info_message << "You see a" << bold_start << poor << bold_end << "newt fall into the hole" 04:42 FIQ: pretty much, which more compile time warnings 04:43 can you also do stuff like 04:43 FIQ: where would I have to look to see the tagging implementation? 04:43 messages << "foo" << 1 << "bar"? 04:44 will C++ do a toString of sorts? 04:44 FIQ: correct, or even (messages << monster << "picks up" << objtmp) 04:44 FIQ: yes, if you define it! 04:44 bhaak: nethack/src/messages.c 04:45 FIQ: but it is slightly different that instead of making a new string and returning it, you stream your new data into the output stream directly. 04:45 mcw: not sure if I'm a fan of the syntax, but otherwise seems nice 04:46 FIQ: I once had a PoC in mind that would enable tagging by adding a side structure to the normal string with could have additional data outband. this would have enabled colorizations or other customisations. for nethack-de I did something similar but inband. 04:46 FIQ: as with everything in C++, the syntax is absolutely horrible horrible. 04:46 mcw: haha 04:47 std::ostream &operator<<(std::ostream &out, const ObjectPtr &objtmp); 04:47 That's the syntax for declaring your custom printy function for a type 04:47 It makes eyes bleed 04:47 mcw: ah... of course... 04:48 mcw: I guess some of it is just it keeping C backward compatibility and having to add new syntax rules on top? 04:48 FIQ: yes, and that it has 193810938 features to obfuscate everything! 04:49 But just having access to things like the standard containers makes everything worth it 04:49 (he says) 04:51 FIQ: for amnesia I'm thinking it's going to actually just increase current skill timeouts 04:51 So if your "shield block" has 5 turns left before you can use it, it might get increased to 20 04:52 mcw: Reduce skill levels and/or exercise 04:52 Ah yeah, could remove progress to the next skill level as well 04:52 Or forget spells 04:52 Stuff that is objectively bad but not actually frustrating and makes you want to #quit 04:52 basically 04:52 gameplay effects 04:52 Aye 04:52 not player effects 04:53 I think for spells it would reduce current memory% (if I have that, which I might) rather than removing entirely. 04:53 So if the effects are nasty but SMALL, it means I can put a lot more amnesia attacks in, and make them appear earlier 04:54 Making the first dungeon levels harder, but not more "immediately" deadly. 04:56 mhm 04:56 btw 04:56 not sure if you decided on a license 04:56 but you have that decision done for you alreay 04:56 *already 04:56 must be GPL3 04:57 or NGPL 04:57 NGPL has... issues, but alllows you to reuse nethack code for stuff if you want 04:59 Yeah, NGPL is fine, I think I was trying to go for MIT but I don't have an opinion really 04:59 you can't go with MIT 04:59 you can go with NGPL or GPL3 04:59 I highly recommend GPL3 unless you intend to reuse nethack code 04:59 NGPL requires you to include a timestamp of your last code change 04:59 inside each file 05:00 it has other problems afaik, but this is easily the worst to deal with on a day-to-day basis 05:01 Ah 05:15 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:26 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 05:47 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1] 06:21 mcw: the resonyo can't use MIT 06:22 is because libuncursed is licensed under GPL3 06:22 and NGPL 06:23 {ngpl to allow NetHack to use it} 06:23 *() 06:27 No worries, ngpl or gpl is fine by me 06:28 PS: If you were a martini, would you be vodka or gin? 06:29 I don't drink 06:29 as a martini, you wouldn't drink, you would be drunken 06:30 :) 07:06 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:39 where is monster generation special cased for special levels? 07:46 !tell Chris_ANG Astral crash that causes sigabrt exists on entering astral and on restore attempt I get an impossible("bad monster weapon restore") 07:46 Will do, Demo_! 07:55 are there any special cases for monster generation? 07:55 items, yes, I remember that. but not monsters 07:57 woodchucks on oracle level or whatever 07:57 baby monsters not allowed in dungeons 07:57 idk 07:59 woodchucks are specified in the des file. 08:00 I think excluding certain monsters is either done only indirectly via monster difficulty level or the descriptions (hellish) in dungeon.def. 08:08 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:12 !tell Chris_ANG there is an issue with astral where on the same turn you enter if you get an angel with a glowy "glaibe of shamsiel" type weapon that it is lit when you enter but it immediately stops and you get a message saying so 08:12 Will do, Demo_! 08:12 The thing with baby monsters is subtle in a way you could fail to notice even when studying the code. 08:13 oh i see why it does that 08:19 morning 08:19 FIQ have you made some updates to FIQhack recently? 08:21 i havent heard from you in a few days about fh updates. its like there's a disturbance in the force 08:22 ok yeah unrecoverable astral crash is neat 08:23 what happened Demo_? 08:23 ndnh has an unrecoverable astral crash bug that im pretty sure is dnh's fault 08:24 happens like maybe 1/30 games i enter astral at xp lvl 30 08:24 you just testing or did this happen with a legit game on the server? 08:24 just testing 08:24 not yet 08:24 ok 08:24 wait for junethack though 08:24 thatll be fun 08:24 or 08:25 let Chris know so he can address it before junethack ;) 08:25 did 08:25 oh good deal 08:25 and now i have a good copy paste for astral spamming 08:26 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:26 K2: I have an unfinished change 08:27 ok 08:27 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 08:27 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 08:27 just making sure i didnt miss any annoucement 08:40 !tell Chris_ANG i think that .2 actually fixes the astral crash issue, nevermind 08:40 Will do, Demo_! 08:40 !who 08:40 Tangles: [hdf-us] No current players 08:40 Tangles: [hdf-eu] No current players 08:41 :/ 08:41 hiya Tangles 08:41 Bonourno tangleno 08:42 hey 08:42 Hello Tangles, Welcome to #hardfought 08:42 lol 08:42 ;) 08:42 that bot is hilarious. 08:42 !who 08:42 Tangles: [hdf-us] No current players 08:42 Tangles: [hdf-eu] Tangles [slex] 08:43 have i mentioned how much i love outlook? 08:43 have i? 08:43 ..... no 08:44 fuck outlook 08:44 so much 08:48 :) 08:54 !lastgame 08:54 Tangles: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/R/Robin/nethack4/dumplog/2018-04-17%2007%3A01%3A20%2C%20Minna-Mon-Hum-Fem-Cha%2C%20quit.txt 08:54 Tangles: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/T/Tangles/slex/dumplog/1523968901.slex.txt 08:57 hmm so the eu bot is working fine. I just never wrote any !asc or !streak code for it. 08:58 K2 was right. 08:59 uh wut? 08:59 i was right about something? 08:59 FIQ ^^^^ 08:59 :P 09:02 Yeah I kind of remember looking at it now, then realising how much of a pain in the behind it would be. 09:04 I can do it, but it will come out on two separate lines like the !who/!lastgame output. 09:05 Combined stats would be nice, but I can't do that within the bot, the way it currently works. 09:05 Does it make me a bad person that I giggle every time I read the code (IsBig; IsHard) ? 09:06 lol 09:06 what's that from? 09:06 My code base for weapons, it's in nh as well 09:06 But like obigohrd 09:06 heh 09:07 And also separate lines for eu/us is fine, because if you import the eu stats you'll have to pay an import tarrif! 09:07 And if not now, then I'm sure in the future. 09:10 <@Tone> As long as you don't try to import them from China, you should be good for now 09:13 hah 09:13 Grasshopper: Have not changed saccing yet, you're probably just unlucky. 09:14 -!- deadnoob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:14 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 09:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] Flan99 (Nob Inc Mal Cha), 1908 points, T:1803, quit 09:48 hmm 09:48 tons of guidebook updates for 3.6.1 09:48 is a release in sight I wonder 09:50 <@Winsalot> Btw, do all devs in this channel use linux/not-windows on their personal computers? 09:50 <@Winsalot> Just wondering 09:53 Nah, I'm on windows on my desktop. 09:53 But use WSL quite heavily. 09:57 @Winsalot no 09:57 I use Linux 09:57 LarienTelrunya uses Windows 09:57 IIRC Chris_ANG is on a mac 09:58 I use Linux. 09:58 FIQ: That's my speculation as well 09:58 aosdict, thanks! 09:59 that they're hashing out exactly what doc changes need to happen for a release 10:00 Grasshopper: Note that probably in the next version, I'm probably going to trial my proposed religion system, which disentangles luck and religion completely. No Luck from sacrificing then. 10:00 <@Winsalot> Well, Im kinda dissapointed that it's not 💯% linux. But at least it seems above global average. 10:01 jonadab uses Linux 10:01 K2/hardfought use linux 10:02 <@Winsalot> I guess I should boycott variants made by devs who use windows :) 10:04 :-( 10:04 I use MacOS on my laptop 10:04 And like I say, WSL is super awesome. 10:05 <@Winsalot> What is wsl? Some sort of proprietary vm? :) 10:06 Windows Subsystem for Linux 10:06 No, it is Ubuntu (or whatever userland you want) running natively on the windows kernel 10:07 <@Winsalot> Ok 10:08 Well, it is a proprietary VM from a certain point of view. 10:08 I don't think it itself is open source. 10:08 It's not a VM by any normal defintion, but definitely not open source. 10:08 And it's not like you can use some distro other than Ubuntu. 10:08 You can! 10:09 https://github.com/RoliSoft/WSL-Distribution-Switcher 10:09 MS changed it a while back to allow you to have multiple distros side-by-side as well 10:10 -!- deadnoob_ has joined #hardfought 10:12 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:18 Omg this is so exciting, you guys are going to love it (I hope) 10:19 I currently use Devuan but have used BSD in the past (FreeBSD 5 was my main system for a couple of years) and might again at some point. 10:21 aosdict: the OS on my main workstation at home is windows 10 ;) 10:22 Actually, warthog (my desktop) is still Debian 6.0 (squeeze), but that is really neither here nor there. I mean, that's basically just a UI, all my development work happens on alpaca (which is headless). 10:22 i do use WSL fairly often though 10:22 What does Tangles use? 10:22 and i usually have at least 2 if not more terminal sessions open to the hdf servers 10:22 i wanna say ubuntu 10:22 but i am not certain 10:25 A lot of us also use Emacs. 10:25 Though not all. 10:37 <@Winsalot> Im on xubuntu btw. Though Im less of a programmer and more of mathematician :) 10:38 [hdf-us] [nd] Eleven (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (class L), on T:36914 10:39 aosdict: I use ubuntu 16.04 on my dev box 10:43 https://www.tubhack.com/ttyrecs/tubhack.mutations.ttyrec.html 10:44 :DDDDDDDDD 10:44 [Demo]: I implemented multiple arms so you can up-to 8-wield! 10:44 (note: so can monsters) 10:46 clearly you quaffed 8 potions of mutation to give yourself those 8 extra mouths 10:46 ;) 10:46 At the moment there is an arbitrary limit of 4 legs, 4 arms, 4 heads 10:46 Hence why some of the extra arms "shrivel away" 10:47 4 sets of* 10:49 Hindu god Durga 10:49 hahah 10:50 :) 10:50 mcw: Heh 10:52 Alternatively General Grievous as the Jedi quest nemesis 10:52 "Hello there!" 10:52 FIQ: note my mastery of attempting to stack like items working perfectly! 10:57 yeah I saw that :P 10:59 But now I have earned myself some xnh playtime! 10:59 <@rikersan> FIQ, @Winsalot chris uses windows w/ ubuntu VM not mac 10:59 <@rikersan> this matters only since clang != gcc sadly 11:00 Is there any advantage of a VM over WSL? 11:00 advantages 11:00 <@rikersan> WSL? 11:00 Running ubuntu on windows natively 11:00 <@rikersan> ah 11:00 I think K2 is in the cool club too 11:00 <@rikersan> well VM is less work 11:00 WSL is run "Bash on Ubuntu" from the start menu? :) 11:01 <@rikersan> ouch 11:02 <@rikersan> !tell Chris_ANG since i honestly don't remember if I told you this: can monk weapon gifts only give them weapons they've hit with? i.e. if I hit with a sickle it can now give me farm stuffs, hammer -> ogresmasher, etc. 11:02 Will do, @rikersan! 11:02 <@rikersan> god damn chris is going to be overloaded 11:03 @rikersan ah 11:04 rikersan https://i.imgur.com/Qn7WBCm.png works really nicely 11:04 mcw: It is win10-only 11:04 WSL I mean 11:05 I believe so, yes. 11:05 -!- hothraxxa_ has joined #hardfought 11:06 -!- hothraxxa has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:06 -!- hothraxxa_ is now known as hothraxxa 11:06 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v hothraxxa] by ChanServ 11:10 [hdf-us] [dnh] Khor (Bin Bat Fem Non), 452 points, T:904, killed by an acid blob 11:12 -!- Guest18892 has joined #hardfought 11:15 -!- bug_sniper_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:18 aosdict: please please remove hidden doors 11:18 ? 11:19 why are you specifically telling me this 11:19 * mcw has been stuck on dlevel1 for 1615 turns :( 11:19 I thought you were mr. xnh? 11:20 ...there should be no secret doors on DL1. 11:20 AmI just really stupid? 11:20 You can spectate on eu 11:20 And point out my stupidity 11:20 blargh large terminal size 11:21 sorry 11:21 Does xnethack have hilight_hidden_stairs ? 11:21 Hidden passages may still exist. 11:21 jonadab: No. 11:21 aosdict: I can't see where they might be 11:21 Oh god 11:21 Maybe there's a branching hidden passage somewhere to the upper right? 11:21 it was in the middle of another corridor 11:21 Yeah 11:21 Hmm, but the amulet can't be hiding stairs because it's in a room with stairs. 11:22 Ah, nvm. 11:22 jonadab: That's an engraving. 11:22 jonadab: that's an engraving 11:22 aosdict: Oh, right. 11:22 I get excited every time I see it 11:22 jinx! 11:22 :x 11:22 Yeah so hidden passages shouldn't exist on the first few levels either, but I didn't get around to that. 11:22 np, that was annoying because I assumed it would be a hidden door 11:23 So examined every wall! 11:23 you play fast 11:23 aosdict: if you're going to do that, the depth of the Mines entrance would be a sane cut-off. Because going into the Mines allows the player to find a pick-axe usually. 11:23 jonadab: It's currently the first 3 levels. 11:23 Also reasonable. 11:24 And the chance of a hidden door on DL4 hiding the Mines entrance is astronomically low. 11:24 lamp get! 11:24 Yay! 11:24 I'm personally rather skeptical about the _need_ for this change, as I have never had any trouble finding the stairs, or at least not since I'd been playing long enough to know about numeric prefixes. So about a week. 11:24 That's my third lamp I've found on dlevel 2/3 11:25 aosdict: I play way too fast which is why I die so much. 11:25 But on the other hand, a lot of new players seem to have this problem. I just don't understand why. 11:25 jonadab: what do you use for your search prefix 11:25 * mcw uses 22 11:25 Or, rather, I don't understand why I _don't_ have it. 11:25 mcw: Usually 33 11:25 jonadab: You underestimate the volume of new players who at best skim the manual and don't learn about the s command. 11:25 But 22 is almost as good. 11:25 aosdict: I'm talking about the ones who complain "I searched _everywhere_, like, 50 times!!!111" 11:26 New players usually don't even know that there's such a thing as a secret door. 11:26 I've lost count of the number of such player complaints I've seen. 11:26 And then I glance at the map and go, "Have you searched such-and-such a place where it looks like a secret door would be?" 11:26 And they're like, "THERE? No, why? Oh." 11:27 kill secret doors with fire 11:27 It's just something you learn (I was convinced there was a secret door at the top right, but on the vertical corridor) on that dlevel 1 11:27 And here we see one of the important functions of useless metal body armor: for cluttering up armor shops with junk so that a largeish one won't generate EVERYTHING you need. 11:27 bhaak: apart from vaults etc! 11:27 mcw: maybe :) 11:27 also, secret corridors 11:27 bhaak: You can in fact kill secret doors with fire :) 11:27 \o 11:27 \o/ * 11:28 Hmm, my horsey won't come steal from this shop because of this web 11:28 aosdict: IMO, it would be nice if "useless in the long term" did not always equate to "useless even on dungeon level two". 11:28 Imagine if the player would trade up for better armor _several_ times before finding mithril. What would the game be like then? 11:28