00:55 <mcw> https://www.tubhack.com/ttyrecs/tubhack_test_up.ttyrec.html woot woot!
00:56 <K2> :)
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00:59 <mcw> I'm trying to be a good boy and build regression tests from the start
01:00 <mcw> I think this looks clean-ish? https://git.tubhack.com/mcw/tubhack/src/master/tests/move.cpp
01:04 <K2> looks ok by me, but i'm not a programmer
01:10 <mcw> Hopefully it should look partially reasonable to non-programmers :)
01:10 <mcw> It should just be, "here's a map to make", "do some stuff", "assert that what I think is true"
01:12 <K2> what are you basing tubhack off of?
01:12 <K2> vanilla or another variant?
01:12 <mcw> Whichever is easiest for me to crib, but most of the source is from scratch.
01:12 <K2> hah neat
01:33 <mcw> Hopefully neat. :)
01:54 <ProzacElf> what the hell is this?  some sort of tube?
02:04 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [nh] dograt (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 26392 points, T:4962, killed by a death ray
02:08 <mcw> tube?
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02:18 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) polymorphed his first object, on T:22579
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02:49 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed Croesus, on T:23755
02:54 <Beholder> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed the eye of the aethiopica", on T:23988
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03:19 <K2> doin g a bit of server maintenance, will be down for just a couple min
03:19 <K2> brb
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03:27 -!- mode/Beholder [+Zi] by Beholder
03:27 -!- weber.freenode.net changed the topic on #hardfought to: Welcome to Hardfought - https://www.hardfought.org/ - public irc logs available on website ¤ Public NetHack server - ssh nethack@hardfought.org or nethack@eu.hardfought.org ¤ aosdict's new variant xNetHack (beta) is now live!
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03:33 -!- livingstone.freenode.net changed the topic on #hardfought to: Welcome to Hardfought - https://www.hardfought.org/ - public irc logs available on website ¤ Public NetHack server - ssh nethack@hardfought.org or nethack@eu.hardfought.org ¤ aosdict's new variant xNetHack (beta) is now live!
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03:38 <K2> all done
03:41 <K2> !ping
03:41 <Beholder_> K2: Pong! 
03:49 <mcw> !pong
03:49 <mcw> :(
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05:46 <mcw> YES!!!!!!!!!! The gobling chases me :D
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05:51 <Tarmunora> ?
05:52 <mcw> 2secs
05:53 <mcw> uch, it works but is also broken
05:55 <mcw> https://www.tubhack.com/ttyrecs/tubhack.chased.ttyrec.html he is after me!
06:22 <Tarmunora> Neat
06:24 <rld> <@Winsalot> does anyone remember the website listing all ascensions on each variant?
06:27 <Tarmunora> no, but I can check backscroll
06:28 <Tarmunora> Should be this:
06:28 <Tarmunora> https://scoreboard.xd.cm/
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07:26 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [slex] ttc1401 (Hea Ang Mal Law), 1882 points, T:803, killed by a monster (flying shark)
07:52 <rld> <@kritixilithos> "The large cat steps reluctantly over an uncursed +0 pair of walking shoes." what
07:52 <aosdict> It's the same thing as "moves reluctantly" except it gives the actual item
07:53 <aosdict> well, it gives the top item. There's probably something cursed under the shoes.
07:56 <rld> <@kritixilithos> that makes sense
07:58 <aosdict> I suppose it's helpful for figuring out exactly which square triggered the message, if you have multiple squares with items nearby
08:00 <mcw> In my day we had to curse-test things ourselves!
08:00 <mcw> Uphill!
08:11 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [slex] ttc1401 (Wiz Ang Mal Law), 27339 points, T:2093, killed by a bullet
08:12 <mcw> Does anyone actually enjoy debugging pathfinding? :-\
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08:17 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at her by some watery tart, on T:1999
08:20 <Tarmunora> Masochists might
08:27 <mcw> Tbh everything is easy apart from wanky diagonal door movement restrictions.
08:28 <mcw> Which is pretty important to maintain ._.
08:32 <jonadab> Wait until you get to boulder pushing.
08:33 <jonadab> Actually, wait until you get to the interaction between boulder-pushing and travel.
08:34 <mcw> :D
08:43 <jonadab> EPI for FIQHack:  monsters can and will push boulders.
08:47 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [dyn] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 4737 points, T:3067, killed by a land mine
08:49 <FIQ> jonadab: I've considered it...
08:49 <Tarmunora> mcw: Is this a semi-port of nethack to c++ I see?
08:49 <FIQ> mcw: I can imagine many things to get stuck on implementation-wise. Door movement limitations isn't one of them
08:49 <mcw> Tarmunora: hopefully
08:49 <mcw> FIQ: *shrug* I hate pathfinding in general.
08:50 <FIQ> You're doing AI stuff?
08:50 <Tarmunora> Here's hoping the ss13 rewrite curse doesn't also apply to nethack
08:50 <FIQ> Just use dijkstra
08:51 <FIQ> NetHack uses something that essentially ends up acting like dijkstra
08:51 <FIQ> allthough not a "proper" implementation of it per se
08:52 <jonadab> Ends up _mostly_ acting like dijkstra, except when it gets wonky in corner cases.
08:53 <mcw> FIQ: that's what I've ended up doing now
08:53 <jonadab> Pretty sure the Dev Team didn't use dijkstra because it would be too resource-intensive on 8-bit microcomputers.
08:53 <mcw> I was trying to be clever with JPS and shit, but meh
08:53 <mcw> jonadab: huh? it is 8bits per tile isn't it?
08:53 <Tarmunora> Fortunately, I don't think we have to worry about 8-bit compatibility
08:53 <jonadab> mcw: Think in terms of a computer with 96k of RAM, total, and no floppy disk drive.
08:54 <jonadab> Or just one, and you need it for the game binary.
08:54 <FIQ> jonadab: well it shouldn't be a problem since pathfinding was only done on players
08:54 <jonadab> Tarmunora: Indeed, not these days.
08:54 <FIQ> well, it was done on the AI too, but a very rudimentary "walk straight towards our destination, what is walls?"
08:54 <jonadab> At this point nobody's going to try to run on a system with less than a *gigabyte* of RAM, much less a megabyte.
08:54 <FIQ> jonadab: performance-wise in old times I mean
08:55 <FIQ> travel didn't even exist back then
08:55 <jonadab> Ah.
08:55 <FIQ> and when it was eventually added, dijkstra should have worked out
08:55 <FIQ> but maybe it wasn't invented yet?
08:55 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a kitten, on T:4954
08:55 <FIQ> ah, dijkstra is from 1956
08:55 <FIQ> so yes it was
08:57 <aosdict> FIQ: And of course the devteam can't modernize the pathfinding algorithm because PatR will revert any code that makes the game not work on 8-bit microcomputers.
08:57 <Tarmunora> jonadab: Maybe Raspberry pi has <1GB RAM, not sure
08:57 <FIQ> aosdict: challenge him to run the current code on one
08:57 <FIQ> until he can prove that yes, it can be done, his argument is invalid
08:58 <Tarmunora> More like challenge him to find a single person running one that's not a VM
08:59 <aosdict> would probably just get a response along the lines of "many people privately email the devteam about getting it to run on X old system and we can't share those communications"
08:59 <K2> morning
09:01 <rld> <@Tone> Good morning 😄
09:02 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law), 9913 points, T:5140, killed by a soldier ant, while sleeping
09:02 <MiseryMyra> Go team a
09:02 <rld> <@Tone> Found your bones yesterday MiseryMyra 😄
09:03 <MiseryMyra> I hope you treated them well
09:03 <rld> <@Tone> Looked like nymphs robbed you blind while dipping for Excalibur
09:03 <MiseryMyra> Tell me about it
09:04 <rld> <@Tone> Don't worry, I got revenge
09:04 <MiseryMyra> Thank you for avenging me
09:06 <mcw> Morning k2
09:07 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed Scorpius, on T:25528
09:08 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:25531
09:13 <mcw> woo
09:13 <mcw> You gno girl
09:15 <K2> heh
09:34 <aosdict> that would work a little better if K2's char was female
09:34 <mcw> You gno mal!
09:35 <aosdict> gnormal?
09:35 <mcw> :D
09:35 <mcw> Well, djkstra works fine, no idea why I didn't just do that to start with
09:35 <mcw> Instead of trying to find a library :-(
09:37 <FIQ> mcw: are you going with NH3-style save system or NH4-style
09:37 <FIQ> (or NitroHack-style)
09:38 <mcw> Save system is not quite on my radar, though it's likely I'm going to use something like "cereal", which is *not* a memory dump, so I'm guessing that's more nh4
09:38 <mcw> If nh4 has some code I can crib I'll definitely do that
09:39 <mcw> NitroHack is the one with the crazy madness right?
09:39 <FIQ> I think the NH4 system, judging by code complexity, might have unneccessarily complicated code for what it sets out to do
09:39 <FIQ> but as an end user, and a developer who never goes near the save system, it's great
09:39 <FIQ> helps bug fixing immensely
09:39 <mcw> I was tempted to do something like a journaling filesystem with snapshots and deltas, but likely overkill :x
09:39 <FIQ> mcw: that's basically what NH4 does
09:40 <FIQ> well not a file system, but close enough
09:40 <FIQ> it logs commands + command timing (in case you want some future feature where you can replicate the gameplay including delays) + diffs
09:41 <FIQ> and if there was a sufficiently large time since the last snapshot, a complete NH3-style base64-encoded gamestate dump
09:42 <FIQ> "sufficiently large time" uses a heuristic based on if it needs to due to it being an old version, or if the accumulated amount of bytes since the large save exceeds a certain number
09:42 <FIQ> *since the last checkpoint
09:43 <MiseryMyra> I'm going to try playing xNetHack now
09:43 <Tangles> @4k?archon
09:43 <Beholder_> Archon (A) | Lvl: 19 | Diff: 0 | Spd: 16 | Res: fire cold sleep shock poison | Confers: nothing | MR: 80 | Generates: dungeons | AC: -6 | Attacks: 2d4 weapon physical, 2d4 weapon physical, 2d6 gaze blind, 1d8 claw physical, 4d6 cast spell | Alignment: 15 | Flags: flies, regenerates, seeinvis, nopoly, stalker, infravisible
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09:48 <MiseryMyra> I read the changelog, and it looks cool & good
09:48 <aosdict> Thanks! I try to make it cool & good.
09:49 <Tangles> So this particular Archon also has a shield of relection, and demonbane (in addition to cold and fire resistance). I've got nothing :/
09:49 <aosdict> Tangles: Isn't the first archon generated guaranteed both of those things? In vanilla?
09:50 <Tangles> well this is fourk
09:50 <Tangles> but I don't know. I honestly don't see that many of them.
09:51 <Tangles> This one is in Vlad's tower.  I can't avoid it.
09:51 <aosdict> pop on over to grunthack and grab a spell of acid blast?
09:52 <K2> oh damn :/
09:53 <Tangles> It summoned a couple of cockatrices (but I have to get past it to get them)
09:53 <K2> what the hell is an archon doing there?
09:53 <K2> you're only xp lvl 17
09:53 <aosdict> it's sort of funny how giving monsters reelection in nethack ups their difficulty level significantly
09:53 <[Demo]> archonating
09:53 <Tangles> otoh... reflection in fourk is not... what's the word...
09:53 <aosdict> reflection*
09:53 <Tangles> useful, that's it.
09:53 <K2> its not 100% heh
09:53 <aosdict> Re-elect Archon 2018!
09:53 <Tangles> it's not useful./
09:55 <Tangles> so I need to deal with orcus first... bless the shit out of that wand, and zap away all the useless wands to max the skill.
09:55 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [dyn] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 6470 points, T:3131, killed by a giant spider
09:55 <Tangles> then come back and 'reflect' a death ray right into his face ;)
09:55 <MiseryMyra> I'm going to have to unlearn my vanilla eating off the floor habits and relearn my fh eating off the floor habits
09:55 <K2> heh
09:56 <Tangles> hmm I wonder if advancing attack spells to expert does the same thing....
09:57 <Tangles> well I can't do that now anywat.
09:57 <aosdict> MiseryMyra: in 3.6.2 the fh eating off the floor habits will likely become vanilla eating off the floor habits >_<
09:57 <Tangles> I fat-fingered and advanced the wrong skill, so now I havr no slots left.
09:57 * MiseryMyra shrugs
10:00 <[Demo]> that's just vanilla integrating with slashem
10:03 <Tangles> #4k?shade
10:03 <Tangles> @4k?shade
10:03 <Beholder_> shade (W) | Lvl: 12 | Diff: 0 | Spd: 10 | Res: cold sleep disintegrate poison petrification drain | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: special | AC: 10 | Attacks: 2d6 touch paralyze, 1d6 touch slow | Alignment: 0 | Flags: flies, phases, breathless, unsolid, seeinvis, nopoly, undead, stalker, vegan
10:04 <Tangles> @4k?ettin
10:04 <Beholder_> ettin (X) | Lvl: 10 | Diff: 0 | Spd: 12 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 3 | Attacks: 2d8 weapon physical, 3d6 weapon physical | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, tunnels, infravisible
10:05 <Tangles> @4k?demilich
10:05 <Beholder_> demilich (L) | Lvl: 14 | Diff: 0 | Spd: 9 | Res: cold sleep poison drain | Confers: cold | MR: 60 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: -2 | Attacks: 3d4 touch cold, 0d0 cast spell | Alignment: -12 | Flags: genocidable, breathless, regenerates, poisonous, undead
10:05 <Tangles> @4k?master lich
10:05 <Beholder_> master lich (L) | Lvl: 17 | Diff: 0 | Spd: 9 | Res: fire cold sleep poison drain | Confers: fire cold | MR: 90 | Generates: gehennom | AC: -4 | Attacks: 3d6 touch cold, 0d0 cast spell | Alignment: -15 | Flags: genocidable, breathless, regenerates, poisonous, undead, covetous
10:06 <Tangles> Oh they are fire resitant... that doesn't seem fair.
10:06 <aosdict> Why does Beholder color the background of that glyph?
10:08 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law), 884 points, T:2050, killed by a water moccasin
10:08 <MiseryMyra> That didn't last long
10:08 <Tangles> so deep ettins spawn in groups of four... because that's balanced.
10:09 <aosdict> quaff fountains at your own peril
10:09 <MiseryMyra> I was dipping for Excalibur
10:09 <Tangles> @4k?deep ettin
10:09 <Beholder_> deep ettin (X) | Lvl: 16 | Diff: 0 | Spd: 12 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 50 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: -6 | Attacks: 2d8 weapon physical, 3d6 weapon physical, 0d0 cast spell | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, tunnels, fairy, infravisible
10:09 <MiseryMyra> It's worth the risk of an early death, imo
10:10 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Wiz Syl Fem Cha) were saved from death by your amulet of life saving!, on T:27240
10:10 <aosdict> Ah, Excalibur.
10:10 <aosdict> jonadab: please fix ^ livelog message
10:14 <rld> <@Tone> By my amulet? 😄
10:15 <aosdict> YANI: You can tame a unicorn (possibly any unicorn or maybe just coaligned) by throwing a specific gemstone at them, which is different for each unicorn.
10:15 <rld> <@Tone> That mistaken pluralization reminds me of my favorite 3.6.1 update
10:16 <rld> <@Tone> "slice of {pizza,cake,&} pluralized as "slouse of ..." due to false match with "lice" (discovered pre-3.6.0-release)"
10:16 <K2> time to polypile
10:17 <aosdict> @Tone the weird thing is, lice aren't in the game, at all. It was entirely because someone thought they *might* be added and put in a special case for the pluralizer.
10:18 <rld> <@Tone> obligatory TDTOE I guess
10:18 <MiseryMyra> NetHack: Now with hypothetical lice
10:19 <[Demo]> lice are in slashem
10:22 <mcw> Heh, couldn't work out why my tests weren't passing, I had managed to fat-finger in an extra goblin :x
10:22 <mcw> https://pastebin.com/n9DvE69H
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10:48 <FIQ> [Demo]: NH4 and SLASH'EM getobj is slightly different
10:48 <FIQ> notably, SLASH'EM expects . for dungeon features and , for items
10:48 <FIQ> NH4 has it all be ,
10:48 <FIQ> in my getobj patch, I use , for everything but accept . as an alias
10:49 <FIQ> for people coming from SLASH'EM muscle memory-wise
10:49 <[Demo]> good
10:49 <[Demo]> cause i come from slashem muscle memory wise
10:49 <[Demo]> when it comes to getobjing
10:53 <FIQ> !tell K2 pushed update: allow . as an alias to ,
10:53 <Beholder_> Will do, FIQ!
10:53 <FIQ> in getobj
10:53 <K2> ok
10:53 <Beholder_> K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-04-15 10:53 EDT: pushed update: allow . as an alias to ,
10:54 <K2> FIQ: what was that fix for dynahack you told me about a few days ago? I remmebr you telling me about it but I didnt have a chance to do anything with it
10:55 <FIQ> K2: basically
10:55 <FIQ> remove the ability to find statues/corpses of former players
10:55 <FIQ> because this feature causes desyncs whenever someone ascends
10:55 <K2> yup
10:55 <K2> what was the file to edit and code to change?
10:56 <FIQ> there is a function called tt_oname
10:56 <FIQ> in topten.c
10:56 <FIQ> basically
10:56 <FIQ> remove all of it
10:56 <FIQ> and add "return NULL;"
10:57 <FIQ> actually don't do that, then someone might suspect that something is wrong
10:57 <FIQ> do this instead
10:58 <FIQ> http://home.fiq.se/topten.c
10:58 <K2> thx
10:58 <FIQ> K2: this will cause desyncs as if someone ascended
10:58 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Wiz Syl Fem Cha) were saved from death by your amulet of life saving!, on T:27883
10:58 <FIQ> but once this is in
10:58 <FIQ> no further issues should arise
10:58 <aosdict> famous last words
10:58 <FIQ> (and desyncs only become a problem if someone's save past votd crashes)
10:59 <Tangles> this is not going well.
10:59 <K2> :/
11:03 <K2> FIQ your link, is that a total replacement of topten.c ?
11:04 <K2> and if not, where exactly in the file does this go?
11:05 <FIQ> K2: search for tt_oname in the file
11:05 <FIQ> it should be obvious what to do when you find it
11:05 <K2> tt_oname doesnt exist
11:06 <K2> and no its not obvious, because i'm not a programmer
11:06 <K2> and i know less about nh4 based code than i do nh3
11:07 <[Demo]> who is gonna ascend dyna anyway?
11:07 <aosdict> luxidream
11:07 <[Demo]> lol
11:07 <FIQ> K2: It does exist
11:08 <FIQ> one moment
11:08 <FIQ> let me give you line number
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11:08 <K2> i was in nitrohack/src
11:08 <FIQ>    499  struct obj *tt_oname(struct obj *otmp)
11:08 <FIQ> There is a topten.c there?
11:08 <FIQ> Sorry if so
11:08 <K2> there is 
11:08 <FIQ> I assumed there was just 1 topten.c
11:08 <K2> now i'm looking in libnitrohack/src
11:09 <K2> ok i see struct obj *tt_oname(struct obj *otmp)
11:09 <K2> i got it now i think
11:11 <K2> ok got it
11:11 <K2> lol now I cant remember exactly how to compile dynahack
11:12 <FIQ> I can't help you there
11:12 <K2> i couldnt remember when we setup the eu server either (Tangles setup that variant)
11:12 <K2> i'll ask Tangles once he's at a stopping point in his game
11:14 <FIQ> !tell ais523 any reason you didn't encode mx/my by assuming directional changes 99% of the time?
11:14 <Beholder_> Will do, FIQ!
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11:17 <K2> brb
11:19 -!- Tariru has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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11:22 <[Demo]> @4k?vampire
11:22 <Beholder_> vampire (V) | Lvl: 10 | Diff: 0 | Spd: 12 | Res: sleep poison drain | Confers: nothing | MR: 25 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 1 | Attacks: 1d6 claw physical, 1d6 bite level drain | Alignment: -8 | Flags: genocidable, flies, breathless, regenerates, poisonous, undead, stalker, infravisible
11:24 <Tangles> @4k?orcus
11:24 <Beholder_> Orcus (&) | Lvl: 66 | Diff: 0 | Spd: 9 | Res: fire poison drain | Confers: nothing | MR: 85 | Generates: unique | AC: -6 | Attacks: 3d6 weapon physical, 3d4 claw physical, 3d4 claw physical, 8d6 cast spell, 2d4 sting drain str | Alignment: -20 | Flags: flies, seeinvis, poisonous, nopoly, demon, stalker, covetous, infravisible
11:27 <mcw> hmm
11:30 <Tangles> K2: I can't remember how to compile dynahack either. I'll have a look tomorrow.
11:37 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at her by some watery tart, on T:1321
11:41 <mcw> nap time, nn
11:42 <aosdict> !who
11:42 <Beholder_> aosdict: [hdf-us] ttc1401 [dyn] koumakan [nd] k2 [xnh] MiseryMyra [xnh] 
11:42 <Beholder_> aosdict: [hdf-eu] No current players
11:42 <K2> no rush Tangles, and thanks
11:42 <K2> we'll need to store a how-to somewhere heh
12:16 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law), 3354 points, T:2746, killed by an orcish arrow, while sleeping
12:25 <rld> <@Winsalot> In 4k, is sylph supposted to be hard race, or just different race?
12:26 <K2> yes
12:26 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Wolfechu (Pri Elf Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:7162
12:26 <K2> jonadab could answer that more precisley
12:27 <rld> <@Winsalot> yes?
12:27 <rld> <@Winsalot> so which one is it?
12:27 <rld> <@Winsalot> 😃
12:27 <K2> yes :)
12:36 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed greased fixed +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:2604
12:37 <MiseryMyra> Thank you, water demon
12:37 <MiseryMyra> The +2 failed, though
12:38 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at her by some watery tart, on T:2614
12:38 <rld> <@Winsalot> btw, why are most of you using IRC instead of discord?
12:40 <MiseryMyra> I personally prefer IRC, and I'm already on this network
12:41 <rld> <@Winsalot> Do you use it in browser?
12:42 <aosdict> I can connect to IRC through a remote server, and also be on channels like #nethackwiki that have no discord counterpart, and also not be running either non-proprietary local software or a kind of crappy web app, both of which are resource hogs
12:42 <aosdict> Er, *proprietary. Not non-proprietary.
12:44 <rld> <@Winsalot> remote server = terminal emulator? 😃
12:44 <MiseryMyra> I use HexChat as my IRC client
12:45 <rld> <@kritixilithos> I think discord is open-sourced, but it does certainly fill the "crappy web app" role
12:46 <rld> <@00000000000000000 Jay> I think opposite.
12:46 <rld> <@00000000000000000 Jay> Discord is proprietary.
12:47 <rld> <@00000000000000000 Jay> I agree it's crappy as a web app.
12:47 <rld> <@00000000000000000 Jay> But the desktop application should suit you just fine @kritixilithos
12:47 <MiseryMyra> I can also do fancy things like set up shortcuts to type special characters, like ∯B∙ds = 0
12:48 <FIQ> the desktop app is literlly jstachrome contaner
12:48 <FIQ> so t s jst s crappy
12:48 <rld> <@00000000000000000 Jay> Not for me FIQ
12:48 <FIQ> and also manshving shit nstalled on yor compter
12:48 <FIQ> no tanks
12:48 <rld> <@kritixilithos> "manshving"?
12:49 <aosdict> oh no fiq is having a stroke again :P
12:49 <FIQ> you know
12:49 <rld> <@kritixilithos> @00000000000000000 Jay discord's built on electron so yeah :P
12:49 <FIQ> to et hereinfirst place
12:50 <FIQ> I have to se ssh
12:50 <rld> <@Winsalot> ok, just found out, that Pidgin (which is installed by default) supports IRC. Setting up rn, to stop relying on proprietary shit 😃
12:50 <FIQ> incldin typing ot  psswod...
12:50 <rld> <@00000000000000000 Jay> @kritixilithos electron? What's that?
12:50 <Pinkbeast> Winsalot> ask the other way; why would I connect via Discord, a huge application which no doubt will follow the usual "good+free -> de facto monopoly -> awful" trajectory, when I can ssh to my irc client from anywhere in the world?
12:50 <jonadab> @Winsalot Sylph is _intended_ to be a _different_ race, but currently it is not very well balanced.  (Fixing that is on my agenda.)
12:50 <FIQ> tkeslik 10 tries
12:50 <FIQ> to get in
12:50 <aosdict> electron is how you run node.js apps on desktop I think.
12:51 <rld> <@kritixilithos> winsalot: read stallman's thoughts on proprieatry software https://stallman.org/
12:51 <rld> <@kritixilithos> interesting guy
12:51 <rld> <@00000000000000000 Jay> He's a radical.
12:51 <FIQ> hadmode n4k s gint
12:51 <jonadab> Stallman is an extremist, and I do not agree with everything he says.
12:52 <FIQ> hardmode in 4k is giant
12:52 <FIQ> enjoy your 6 speed
12:52 <[Demo]> uriel was right
12:52 <jonadab> But Discord isn't just a proprietary program.  It's also a proprietary _protocol_, and regarding those, I am in greater agreement with Stallman.
12:52 <rld> <@00000000000000000 Jay> ^
12:52 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Arc Gno Mal Neu), 624 points, T:992, killed by a small mimic
12:52 <jonadab> Proprietary protocols are even worse than proprietary file formats.
12:52 <FIQ> jonadab: yesI agree
12:53 <[Demo]> discord is harmful software
12:53 <hothraxxa> wtf? i just found a cursed leash in xnethack
12:53 <FIQ> was never too averse to nonfree applications
12:53 <jonadab> FIQ: Yes, giant will need some further balancing as well.  But Sylph is more urgent, because it's been around longer.
12:53 <hothraxxa> since when are tools generated cursed?
12:53 <rld> <@kritixilithos> I do agree that some of his views are extreme, but I like some of his other articles, like https://stallman.org/articles/on-hacking.html
12:53 <FIQ> bt propertiary chat protocols can go die in a fire
12:53 <jonadab> FIQ: Yeah.
12:53 <Pinkbeast> I'm not as fussed as Stallman but in this case the alternative to the proprietary tools is IRC clients and ssh, which are big-F free, lightweight, offer a reasonably wide choice, faster... why _wouldn't_ I use them?
12:54 <Pinkbeast> hothraxxa: Bones?
12:54 <hothraxxa> no this was dlvl 2
12:54 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) eschewed atheism, by dropping 7 daggers on an altar, on T:3656
12:54 <rld> <@Winsalot> jonadab: what about giant? I noticed that nobody has ever ascended one.
12:54 <aosdict> hothraxxa: leashes shouldn't be cursed, but "tools never generate cursed" is a misconception
12:55 <Pinkbeast> "only light sources, grease, crystal balls and figurines will normally be generated cursed" but that was 3.4.3
12:55 <[Demo]> but discord sells ur data :O
12:55 <aosdict> lots of tools like crystal balls and cans of grease can be cursed
12:55 <hothraxxa> yeah i know, i mistyped
12:55 <rld> <@kritixilithos> Pinkbeast: I can't see chat history on irc
12:55 <hothraxxa> i should have since when are leashes generated cursed
12:55 <FIQ> grease can generatecursed?
12:55 <Pinkbeast> kritizilithos> How unfortunate for you. I can.
12:55 <aosdict> FIQ: yes, 1/20 chance
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12:55 <hothraxxa> fiq: i think i've found some
12:56 <rld> <@kritixilithos> do you leave your computer on 24/7?
12:56 <hothraxxa> anyway for sure crystal balls can
12:56 <hothraxxa> but bags, picks, towels, all should be safe i thought
12:56 <Pinkbeast> No, I leave someone else's computer which is on 24/7 anyway since it's a Web server, mail server &c on 24/7
12:56 <[Demo]> yes
12:56 <[Demo]> as I found out in dnh
12:56 <jonadab> @Winsalot giant is currently harder than I intend for it to remain, yes.
12:56 <FIQ> yeah balls have likea 80% curse rate
12:56 <hothraxxa> and i've never found a cursed tinning kit outside of bones
12:56 <FIQ> not sure exactly
12:56 <jonadab> Also Gnome.
12:57 <aosdict> FIQ: looks like 25%
12:57 <FIQ> but almost all I have found has been crsed
12:57 <FIQ> hm
12:57 <aosdict> 25% blessed, 50% uncursed
12:57 <FIQ> then I have just been unlucky
12:57 <Pinkbeast> hothraxxa: Must nip out for 10 minutes but will have a look when I get back if no-one else has done leashes
12:57 <winsalot> ok, I'm in
12:57 <aosdict> I see nothing in xnh's code that would make leashes generate cursed.
12:58 <hothraxxa> i would expect this to be 3.6.1 i
12:58 <aosdict> hothraxxa: Oh, was this an ais523 fake bones pile? Trap on the square and all that?
12:58 <hothraxxa> ahhhh yes i bet that was it. it was on bear trap i think
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13:15 <rld> <@00000000000000000 Jay> Is there a way that I can configure my .nethackrc on the hardfought server?
13:15 <rld> <@00000000000000000 Jay> Because I don't like the way some things are set up by default.
13:16 <Pinkbeast> Jay> There's an "edit options" menu item for each game that doesn't have an in-game options editor
13:16 <rld> <@00000000000000000 Jay> kk
13:16 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Qwesti (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 2142 points, T:4014, killed by a fire ant
13:16 <Pinkbeast> Er, I don't mean an in-game options editor, I mean something like NetHack 4 with an Angband-style Birth options interface
13:17 <jonadab> In-game options menu that saves automatically to your options file.
13:18 <rld> <@00000000000000000 Jay> That's with #options command, right?
13:19 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) performed her first genocide (class L), on T:5148
13:20 <Pinkbeast> Jay> If you select any of the games without an "Edit options" menu item you'll see what I mean.
13:21 <jonadab> I think the command is usually bound to O by default?
13:21 <jonadab> But it's also on the main menu in all the Nitro-derived variants.
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13:25 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Qwesti (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 65 points, T:740, killed by a jackal
13:26 <[Demo]> Nitro is a hack
13:26 <rld> <@00000000000000000 Jay> 9          6  Xaleth-Hea-Hum-Fem-Neu died in The Dungeons of Doom                 on level 1.  Killed herself by breaking a wand.         -  [13]
13:26 <jonadab> [Demo]: Your mom is a hack.
13:27 <rld> <@00000000000000000 Jay> I'm bad at Nethack 😦
13:28 <rld> <@Winsalot> Jay, on what server are you playing?
13:31 <[Demo]> :(
13:31 <aosdict> Finished with the Godly Favor Proposal - https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Phol_ende_wodan/FavorProposal
13:31 <[Demo]> it's true
13:34 <rld> <@00000000000000000 Jay> @Winsalot that stat came from singleplayer.
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13:35 <rld> <@Winsalot> "This proposal assumes that the nutrition system has previously been changed such that there is a finite amount of permafood in the dungeon, and there is no way for the player to survive indefinitely (ignoring extinction, assuming monsters generate indefinitely) by eating only monster corpses." I don't like this.
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13:41 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:6873
13:42 <aosdict> @Winsalot the alternative is that there's an incentive to hang around in the dungeon and altar farm until you have all the divine blessings it's possible to get.
13:42 <Pinkbeast> aosdict: Saccing permafood seems odd from a flavour point of view, are the gods old-Nemelex style rubbish collectors?
13:42 <aosdict> I do not want to incentivize that.
13:42 <[Demo]> damn you've put some work into this
13:44 <rld> <@Winsalot> maybe adress it some other way then? i think that dying from hunger is really anti-fun
13:44 <rld> <@Winsalot> Maybe make food scrifices have diminishing returns past some favour?
13:44 <aosdict> Pinkbeast: It is a little odd from a flavor perspective, but not too much; people have traditionally sacrificed portions of their food to gods in real life.
13:45 <Pinkbeast> Mmm, perhaps you're right - we're just used to corpses being the only acceptable medium of exchange
13:45 <aosdict> FIQHack went further here and allowed you to sacrifice gold - but I think priests cover that.
13:46 <rld> <@Winsalot> like sacrificing food past 1000 favour gives you 1 favour per sacrifice.
13:46 <aosdict> @Winsalot This is not intended to put a tight hunger clock on the game. Under that assumption, there can still be ample food in the dungeon for you not to starve.
13:47 <rld> <@Winsalot> Oh, I just have PTSD from pixel dungeon
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13:47 <aosdict> The point is that _eventually_, you run out of food. I.e. you can't hang out on one level, not exploring anywhere new, for thousands and thousands of turns, and not starve.
13:48 <rld> <@Winsalot> unless you have CM ofc 😃
13:49 <Pinkbeast> aosdict: Given that kills->corpses to sacrifice->favour->food at fainting, can I not camp out on an altar level indefinitely?
13:50 <aosdict> Pinkbeast: Yeah, the amount of favor per corpse and the amount of hunger restored probably needs some tuning so that that feedback loop doesn't work.
13:51 <Pinkbeast> I guess you have considered and rejected a Spork-ish overall clock?
13:51 <aosdict> In vanilla, hunger is a minor trouble and Weak is a major; I changed those so you do have to be in dire condition to get food from your god.
13:52 <aosdict> K2 has mentioned the Spork clock I think, but I'm not sure I fully know what it is.
13:52 <Pinkbeast> I considered increasing the cost of having a given trouble fixed every time you get it fixed, so you can't pray for sustenance forever. Spork IIRC increases MONSTR if it thinks you're stalling
13:53 <aosdict> Well, one of my longer-term plans is to make monster spawns dependent only on Dlvl, so that would be incompatible with a system like that.
13:54 <aosdict> Also, that would just tend to give you corpses worth more favor (so incentivizing you to camp)
13:54 <Pinkbeast> Hm. I always thought MONSTR increasing with XL was one of the few (sometimes effective) anti-scumming feature?
13:54 <Pinkbeast> Corpses worth more favour> well, if the monsters don't kill you - it works in Spork because Spork was willing to make ordinary monsters dangerouys
13:55 <Pinkbeast> *dangerous
13:55 <aosdict> When you say anti-scumming, are you referring to start scumming, or what?
13:55 <Pinkbeast> No - pudding farming, altar camping, anything boring, repetitive, and effective
13:56 <Pinkbeast> I always play to win _this_ game not _a_ game, so I don't regard start scumming as effective, although that's just personal.
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14:00 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed Medusa, on T:31344
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14:12 <FIQ> Pinkbeast: in ADOM you can actually sacrifice anything
14:12 <FIQ> food, go ld, weapons... etc
14:13 <Pinkbeast> FIQ: Like old Nemelex and IIRC there might have been a way in Omega too
14:21 <Mandevil> FIQ: Players...
14:24 <FIQ> Mandevil: ha
14:25 <FIQ> but players are just monsters ;)
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14:27 <[Demo]> ur a monster
14:27 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Qwesti (Tou Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "3 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:2533
14:27 <FIQ> we're all monsters
14:28 <dell00> I typed `ssh nethack@hardfought.org` and it just hung there, consuming 100% of my CPU.
14:28 <dell00> What's going on?
14:30 <Pinkbeast> Try 'ssh -v' and pastebin the output
14:31 <mcw> Morning all!
14:32 <K2> server is fine, 3 ppl playing on us server at the moment
14:33 <K2> fail2ban log only shows one ban and its not your ip address dell00
14:34 <dell00> Hm...
14:34 <K2> what are you using to connect?
14:34 <dell00> SSH, ofc.
14:34 <K2> right
14:34 <dell00> Port 22.
14:34 <K2> what terminal program?
14:34 <K2> is what i meant
14:34 <dell00> Bash
14:34 <dell00> TTY
14:35 <dell00> No terminal emulator
14:35 <K2> k
14:35 <mcw> Anything funky in your ~/.ssh/config?
14:35 <dell00> Not that I know of.
14:35 <Pinkbeast> mcw: Suggest we wait for the output of "ssh -v"
14:35 <mcw> Pinkbeast: was just about to re-suggest that. :)
14:35 <dell00> Whenever I type ssh, it just hangs.
14:35 <mcw> Pinkbeast: but why not go all out, -v -v -v -v -v!
14:36 <K2> you'll want to look at your config. if it were the server i'd have a lot more than just you asking what the problem was
14:36 <mcw> K2 MOMMA IT IS BROKEN FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT 
14:36 * mcw cries
14:36 <dell00> Do you want the paste for ~/.ssh/config, because I don't see anything wrong with it.
14:36 <K2> no need
14:36 <mcw> dell00: try ssh -v -v first, also 'which ssh'
14:36 <Pinkbeast> dell00: No, I want the output of "ssh -v". If that's nothing, does it happen when you connect anywhere? (If yes, not hf's issue.)
14:37 <mcw> Aye, could be outbound 22 blocked which is not super common, but I'e seen it before.
14:37 <dell00> Ohhh... I typed `which ssh` and it showed /usr/bin/ssh, so I typed /usr/bin/ssh -v and it outputted.
14:37 <mcw> Ideally '/usr/bin/ssh -v nethack@hardfought.org' :)
14:38 <dell00> And I typed `/usr/bin/ssh nethack@hardfought.org` and... yep@
14:38 <dell00> :)
14:38 <K2> heh
14:38 <mcw> Ok that's super weird, sounds like there is a shell function defined called ssh
14:38 <mcw> Have you been trying to find a nice shell prompt/config?
14:39 <Pinkbeast> 'alias' with no arguments will print the shell's aliases
14:40 <K2> bit of a lag spike at one of the routers you go through in austin dell00, but it's looked like its settled down for now
14:40 <mcw> good call
14:41 <mcw> K2: how come eu and us hardfought are hosted differently if you don't mind me asking?
14:41 <K2> dont mind at all
14:41 <mcw> With AWS do you only pay while people are actually playing or something (I don't know how AWS works *at all*).
14:42 <K2> hardfought's nethack server started with a bare metal box in my home that was already running the website
14:42 <K2> (nethacks bandwidth requirements are *small*)
14:42 <K2> when we did the devnull tribute tourney, we setup some identical servers across the globe using AWS
14:42 <K2> kept the one in London
14:43 <mcw> Ah, I did wonder whether the us one was home-located (not sure the right word).
14:43 <K2> i paid partial up front for a three yr contract, and then only pay something like 8-10 bucks a month afterwards
14:43 <mcw> K2: that's pretty good!
14:43 <K2> yeah. i'm sitting about 10 feet from hdf-us
14:43 <mcw> *waves at server*
14:43 <K2> *away
14:43 <K2> heh
14:44 <mcw> I don't think any ISP over here ever allows hosting
14:44 <mcw> Your internet connection must be godly though, the website is quite fast indeed for me.
14:44 <dell00> Yeah, @K2, it's pretty laggy.
14:44 <K2> i have a business line to the house so the guaranteed uptime is slightly better than a residential line
14:45 <dell00> Also, what's the option for disabling the number pad and using the traditional roguelike movement keyboard?
14:45 <dell00> For Nethack.
14:45 <Pinkbeast> number_pad
14:45 <K2> i wanna say numpad_0 but lemme check
14:45 <mcw> OPTION:number_pad:off
14:45 <dell00> Is it `OPTIONS=!numpad` or something?
14:45 <dell00> Ok.
14:45 <mcw> Err, OPTIONS=number_pad:off
14:45 <mcw> I think*
14:45 <mcw> *checks config*
14:45 <aosdict> number_pad:0
14:46 <mcw> Iw as wrong, 0
14:46 <K2> ^^
14:46 <K2> what aosdict said
14:46 <K2> had to check i havent touched that option in ages
14:46 <dell00> Ok.
14:46 <mcw> I do that every time I write a config, which is super weird, because for msg_window you use combination not 'c'.
14:46 <dell00> Thanks aosdickt
14:46 <dell00> aosdict
14:47 <mcw> According to the gods of altar saccing you were right the first time!
14:47 <dell00> Me?
14:47 <K2> dell00 ping between you and I is roughly 88mm average - fine for nethack
14:47 <K2> ms
14:47 <mcw> dell00: I was making a funny :)
14:47 <K2> jeez
14:48 <mcw> dell00: You may also (or not) want 'OPTIONS=DECgraphics' or 'OPTIONS=symset:DECgraphics'
14:48 <mcw> Depending on the variant/version
14:48 <dell00> Ok.
14:48 <K2> man i miss the sub 10ms ping times to FPS servers in texas when i lived in dallas
14:48 <K2> quake, tf2, cs:s, etc
14:48 <mcw> mcw@DESKTOP-DLVC7C1:~/tubhack$ ping eu.hardfought.org
14:48 <mcw> PING eu.hardfought.org (35.177.192.116) 56(84) bytes of data.
14:48 <mcw> 64 bytes from ec2-35-177-192-116.eu-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com (35.177.192.116): icmp_seq=1 ttl=54 time=6.48 ms
14:48 <mcw> 64 bytes from ec2-35-177-192-116.eu-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com (35.177.192.116): icmp_seq=2 ttl=54 time=6.83 ms
14:49 <mcw> 64 bytes from ec2-35-177-192-116.eu-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com (35.177.192.116): icmp_seq=3 ttl=54 time=6.77 ms
14:49 <Pinkbeast> I miss being a low ping bastard when everyone else was on dialup
14:49 <mcw> :)
14:49 <K2> heh
14:49 <mcw> K2: I'm guessing your ping to hdf.org is a bit lower though :D
14:49 <raisse> I have a ~70ms ping from sevilla, spain
14:49 <K2> back in the late 90's playing quakeworld and q2ctf, if you had sub 200ms on dial up you were FAST
14:49 <raisse> might be better form home
14:49 <K2> mcw yes ;)
14:49 <Pinkbeast> raisse: Cor, what are you doing in Spain?
14:50 <mcw> Sangria!
14:50 * mcw assumes.
14:50 <raisse> holiday
14:50 <raisse> and libre graphics meeting
14:50 <K2> and then some joker with dual ISDN would connect and wipe the map
14:50 <mcw> libre graphics, raisse ?
14:50 <Pinkbeast> Nice
14:50 <raisse> no, sangria is too sweet for us, rioja and manzanilla
14:50 <mcw> Wouldn't say no to rioja, though it's easy to have too much.
14:50 <raisse> and cheap supermarket sherry brandy (which is actually okay)
14:50 <mcw> Cheap supermarket port!!
14:51 <raisse> not in spain!
14:51 <K2> mcw I get about 95-105ms ping to the eu server from here
14:52 <raisse> libre graphics isn't until the end of the month but we sorely needed a holiday so we first had a city trip to barcelona (Thu-Sat) and then went on to sevilla where we have the best apartment ever for 2 weeks
14:52 <mcw> K2: pretty much identical to my hdf.org ping... maybe I am living on top of the amazon datacentre. :o
14:52 <dell00> I have an average of 108ms ping to hardfought.org
14:52 <raisse> costs an arm and a leg but it's totally awesome
14:52 <dell00> From Austin.
14:52 <K2> not bad dell00
14:52 <K2> hdf-us is in small town Vermont
14:52 <Pinkbeast> I'm betwixt Eastercon and Whitby Goth Weekend
14:53 <raisse> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 264.039/409.192/553.778/103.293 ms <-- this my ping to hardfought.org
14:53 <raisse> really glad of eu
14:53 <mcw> K2: I wonder how complicated it would be to do on-demand spinup of aws as people connect from different locations
14:53 * K2 finds his first scroll of charging on castle level. woooo
14:53 <Pinkbeast> K2: Good timing
14:53 <mcw> raisse: aye, without eu I find it really quite hard to play on servers, my button mashing playstyle does not fit well with random pauses.
14:54 <mcw> K2: I say that 90% jokingly by the way re: aws spinup. :)
14:54 <K2> heh
14:54 <K2> it'd probably be doable
14:54 <raisse> from home (nl, with glass fibre) eu feels as fast as local
14:54 <mcw> Oh, cool raisse - do you work on some graphicsy thing?
14:54 <raisse> no, but spouse is krita maintainer
14:54 <mcw> raisse: Aye same, I'm 6ms to there.
14:54 <K2> but right now us east coast and eu (london) is working out well
14:54 <raisse> I'm just tagging along
14:54 <mcw> K2: yeah, I'd mainly just do it for the fun of doing it, not because it's worth doing. Kinda like tubhack!
14:55 * mcw has funny ideas of fun.
14:55 <K2> if i get a raise i might put up something permanent in australia for Tangles/Grasshopper
14:55 <K2> ;)
14:55 <mcw> Haha!
14:55 <raisse> I'm the project secretary and  do artist interviews and send out orders but I'm not doing anything on the programming or graphics side
14:55 <K2> but right now you can put up a free t2.micro for free for events like junethack
14:55 <mcw> raisse: that is super cool!
14:55 <raisse> yes, it is!
14:55 <K2> 'free t2.micro for free' hjahah
14:56 <raisse> I'll just sit in the hacking room and play nethack when I get bored :-)
14:56 <mcw> K2: even if it's not free, tiny instances for low-hours are the price of a peanut.
14:56 <K2> right
14:56 <mcw> I meant pizza.
14:56 <mcw> I am not sure why I wrote peanut :s
14:56 <K2> even the t2.medium on a three year lease is affordable
14:56 <raisse> tell me when you run out of paid-up eu and need a month's hire from me
14:57 <raisse> (also elenmirie I think)
14:57 <mcw> I think I pay $5/mo for an 8GB/4core VPS
14:57 <K2> i will, thank you raisse!
14:57 <K2> i think we talked about donations at one point - not necessary but welcome all the same
14:58 <K2> the monthly never goes above 10 usd/month
14:58 <mcw> No I have lied to you, it's $7, which is still eh, less than I've spent on a sandwich!
14:58 <raisse> we pay about € 75 /year for hosting and 5 managed virtual servers
14:58 <raisse> er, 1 managed virtual server with 5 websites
14:58 <[Demo]> I want a sandwich flavored vps
14:59 <mcw> [Demo]: What flavour sandwich?
14:59 <mcw> raisse: Is that with ssh access?
14:59 <[Demo]> bacon
14:59 <raisse> mcw: yup
14:59 <mcw> [Demo]: Now you're making me hungry!
14:59 <[Demo]> Wait what
14:59 <mcw> raisse: Yeah that's pretty good, OVH?
14:59 <raisse> *chicken* and bacon
14:59 <[Demo]> who is ur vps provider tubs
15:00 <raisse> mcw: yes, we kind of stumbled on the provider, they were already handling all our domain names
15:00 <raisse> so we sent them mail saying what we wanted and they had it
15:01 <K2> dell00 if you need any help with configs, feel free to ask. there are literally hundreds of different configs here to look at and pull from
15:01 <mcw> [Demo]: vpsdime
15:02 <mcw> [Demo]: I used them a bunch in the past for the storage vps
15:02 <mcw> [Demo]: Always been pretty happy
15:03 <[Demo]> how sketchy are they?
15:05 <mcw> [Demo]: Same guy as backupsys.com (if that means anything), I don't think sketchy
15:06 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +5 helm of brilliance", on T:31796
15:06 <K2> ah damn forgot 'greased'
15:06 <K2> havent geno'ed mind flayers yet
15:06 <mcw> K2: rolls hiiiigh
15:06 <K2> did get the +5 though
15:07 <[Demo]> why is it so cheap?
15:07 <mcw> [Demo]: owned hardware but co-located, probably overprovisioned so don't run production stuff on it, but for everything else it's great.
15:07 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +5 gauntlets of dexterity", on T:31800
15:08 <mcw> It'd be cool if the game could log for beholder the received enchantment either through auto-id or formal.
15:08 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
15:09 <[Demo]> might buy from them
15:10 <mcw> [Demo]: what'cha hosting?
15:10 <K2> dammit
15:10 * mcw is super nosy.
15:10 <mcw> K2: don't die!
15:10 <K2> power went off and back on for a split second
15:11 <K2> its been snowing here and then icing since last night
15:11 <K2> we're good
15:11 <mcw> We can breathe again!
15:12 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +5 water walking boots", on T:31808
15:13 <raisse> snow! it's 17 degrees and softly raining here
15:13 <mcw> Goddamit, I am stuck in my own flat, I'm hungry, which means pizza *again*
15:13 <mcw> raisse: the rain in spain falls mainly on the plain!
15:13 <K2> raisse: yeah, we've got about 3 minches on the ground
15:13 <raisse> but sevila *is* on the plain!
15:13 <K2> inches
15:14 <K2> bleh
15:14 <K2> i'm over winter already
15:14 <raisse> we've got a teeny tiny courtyard and sat there when it was hardly raining, then went for a walk, and when we came back from the walk it was too wet
15:14 <raisse> it's definitely spring here (and also was in NL when we left)
15:14 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of genocide", on T:31814
15:15 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (class L), on T:31815
15:15 <K2> only got one pffft
15:15 <raisse> but at least now you know how to write it
15:15 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed magic marker", on T:31817
15:15 <K2> yes ;)
15:15 <MiseryMyra> I thought I had memorized how to do this sokoban level, but I was horribly wrong
15:16 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed spellbook of magic mapping", on T:32041
15:17 <mcw> MiseryMyra: I hate hate sokoban.
15:18 <mcw> MiseryMyra: It is just "do I remember it, kinda, oh look I had a bit of a laggy and fucked myself"
15:18 <mcw> MiseryMyra: Especially the variants that have B=H count :@
15:19 <MiseryMyra> Yeah, it's a pain and kind of a weird inclusion in the game, tbh
15:20 <MiseryMyra> But at least it's technically optional, and you can "cheat" at the cost of some luck so one mistake won't ruin you
15:20 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought
15:34 <mcw> Time to add COMBAT
15:37 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Qwesti (Tou Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:2536
15:37 <rld> <@rikersan> !whereis qwesti
15:37 <Beholder_> @rikersan: [hdf-us] Qwesti [nd]: No details available
15:39 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Qwesti (Tou Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased fireproof +2 cloak of magic resistance", on T:2543
15:42 <[Demo]> if you hate sokoban you'll love lokoban
15:43 * mcw shudders
15:43 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought
15:45 <mcw> Wow, ordered sushi 15mins ago and it just arrived :o
15:45 <Pinkbeast> Well, it ain't like they had to cook it # yes I know
15:45 <[Demo]> sushi isn't food
15:46 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Qwesti (Tou Hum Mal Neu) made his first artifact wish - "Blessed Rustproof +3 Magicbane", on T:2547
15:46 <mcw> [Demo]: I thought you were cool :(
15:46 <K2> sushi is nectar from the gods
15:46 <mcw> yes!
15:46 <[Demo]> fish are for starving island and coastal ppl
15:46 <mcw> You mean Brits? :)
15:46 <[Demo]> or river coasts idk
15:47 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Qwesti (Tou Hum Mal Neu) wished for "Blessed fireproof +3 Speed Boots", on T:2550
15:47 <[Demo]> the UK isn't a starving island quite yet
15:47 <hothraxxa> let me pedant you there and point out that rivers have banks not coasts
15:47 <[Demo]> ur a coast
15:47 <hothraxxa> no you are
15:47 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
15:48 <[Demo]> but yeah no lakes don't have coasts eother
15:48 <Pinkbeast> starving island> give it a year :-/
15:48 <[Demo]> and they are also ok for eating fish
15:48 <[Demo]> like if ur a starving lakeside magoo
15:48 <mcw> Pinkbeast: indeed, that's why I'm escaping!
15:48 <hothraxxa> i live on the shore on one of the most heavily fished lakes in canada
15:49 <hothraxxa> it's an ice storm out there right now
15:49 <[Demo]> Yeah Canadians can eat fish
15:49 <Pinkbeast> mcw: My mother's Scottish so I hope I'll eventually be a Scottish EU-izen
15:49 <[Demo]> cause otherwise they'll have to eat seals or polar bears ot whatever
15:49 <[Demo]> and those animals are too rad to eat
15:49 <hothraxxa> i don't like seal myself
15:50 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) entered Gehennom, on T:34655
15:50 <FIQ> [Demo] the Coast
15:50 <mcw> Pinkbeast: good plan, I'm invading [Demo] and going to Cali, which is almost the same as Scotland!
15:50 <[Demo]> if ur hungry and on water eat fish
15:50 <[Demo]> going to cali is like going to hell
15:50 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought
15:50 <FIQ> [Demo]: no...
15:50 <mcw> \o/
15:50 <[Demo]> but still better than not america
15:50 <FIQ> it's worse
15:50 <mcw> California girl's are unforgettable!
15:51 <hothraxxa> k2: are you sure that's not fiqhack?
15:51 <mcw> oh god what was that attempt to spell? :s
15:51 <[Demo]> not america is superhell basically
15:51 <[Demo]> the thing with superhell is sometimes you don't realize ur in it
15:51 <FIQ> you know
15:51 <mcw> what's wrong with cali?
15:51 <mcw> The weather?
15:52 <K2> hothraxxa :)
15:52 <FIQ> there's no way I'd want to change residence to the US
15:52 <hothraxxa> xnh mobbing to the max
15:52 <[Demo]> the cost
15:52 <[Demo]> the people
15:52 <FIQ> hothraxxa: what isn't fiqhack?
15:52 <[Demo]> not the food though
15:52 <mcw> FIQ: but you live in a nice place. :)
15:52 <hothraxxa> xnh. he went into the valley and was immediately mobbed
15:52 <FIQ> mcw: yes
15:52 <FIQ> hothraxxa: ha
15:52 <FIQ> well xnh has a different kind of mobbing
15:53 <hothraxxa> i am all too aware
15:53 <FIQ> hothraxxa: btw I have a pending CM change
15:53 <FIQ> monsters can now select where to generate the monsters
15:53 <hothraxxa> so you'll be surrounded
15:53 <[Demo]> can the player do that when they cast?
15:53 <hothraxxa> what about me?
15:53 <FIQ> yes
15:53 <FIQ> hothraxxa: oh, and a more minor change
15:53 <hothraxxa> well at least giants will wind up on the altar
15:53 <K2> hothraxxa: i think a lot of monsters fell through trap door in the armory hallway in the castle
15:53 <FIQ> monsters only last for a few turns
15:54 <FIQ> if generated from CM
15:54 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
15:54 -!- elenmirie_ is now known as elenmirie
15:54 <hothraxxa> heh. after you've been beaten to a snot
15:54 <FIQ> 5/10/15/20/25
15:54 <FIQ> for unskilled/basic/skilled/expert/master (master is for wands)
15:54 <hothraxxa> k2: that's happened to me but i thought it wouldn't happen in xnh due to the iron door
15:54 <FIQ> uncursed scroll is 10, blessed 20
15:55 <FIQ> bag of tricks is 50 uncursed, 100 blessed, but the monster still generates next to you like before
15:55 <FIQ> monsters summoned is tame
15:55 <FIQ> unless cursed
15:55 <FIQ> (for scroll)
15:55 <FIQ> *scroll or b ag
15:55 <hothraxxa> bye bye sac fest
15:55 <FIQ> in which it lasts substantially longer
15:55 <FIQ> but generates hostile
15:56 <FIQ> summoned monsters don't get an inventory or corpse
15:56 <FIQ> to compensate for the huge sacfest nerf
15:56 <FIQ> you can sacrifice food or gold
15:56 <FIQ> too
15:56 <Pinkbeast> FIQ: Or XP?
15:56 <FIQ> you can't sacrifice XP, no
15:56 <FIQ> oh I see what you mean
15:56 <hothraxxa> can i mollify god with food?
15:56 <hothraxxa> how much?
15:56 <FIQ> well it's not a balance concern, but yeah, summoned monsters should probably not give XP
15:57 <FIQ> hothraxxa: what do you mean with "how much"
15:57 <FIQ> how hard the god is to mollify was always dependant on how angry it was
15:57 <hothraxxa> how much value does food have as a sacrifice?
15:57 <FIQ> ah
15:57 <FIQ> depends on food
15:57 <FIQ> it is based on nutrition, but common food has a penalty
15:57 <FIQ> (to avoid you being able to trivially maximize piety with food rations)
15:57 <FIQ> hothraxxa: altar gifts was also changed
15:58 <hothraxxa> *cough*stf*cough*
15:58 <FIQ> huge chunks of meat count as 100 probability
15:58 <FIQ> for the purpose of value penalizing
15:58 <FIQ> (100 isn't 100%)
15:58 <FIQ> for comparision, food ration is 380
15:58 <hothraxxa> not of a huge chunk of meat, that's for sure
16:00 <mcw> god that was good, sesame seared salmon sashimi
16:02 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
16:02 <FIQ> hothraxxa: here's details on new sac logic: http://home.fiq.se/newsac.txt
16:02 <Pinkbeast> What about a Tourist's starting grub?
16:02 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
16:03 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought
16:04 <hothraxxa> fiq: a simpler version of aosdict's proposal, more or less
16:04 <FIQ> I suppose you can put it that way
16:04 <FIQ> It was intended to solve different problems though
16:05 <FIQ> Namely mine was intended as a buff, to compensate for CM nerfs
16:05 <FIQ> CM nerfs in turn was done to avoid the issue where if you couldn't deal damage fast enough
16:05 <FIQ> Sanctum, and especially Astral, would be flooded
16:05 <FIQ> with monsters
16:05 <hothraxxa> orly? tell me more about that
16:06 <FIQ> Well I explained the changes above...
16:06 <hothraxxa> jk
16:06 <FIQ> Basically, you'll still be "mobbed" as you put it since you can now choose where to place monsters (and monsters will also gain this ability)
16:06 <hothraxxa> familiar with the issue ;)
16:06 <FIQ> but the monsters wont last
16:06 <FIQ> so it doesn't get flooded, so to speak
16:06 <mcw> Hmm, in dnh summon nasties is temporary too right? Or is that only if your own pet casts it?
16:07 <hothraxxa> thus severely nerfing the purple army
16:07 <FIQ> Summon nasties isn't temporary in dnh unless that's a recent change
16:07 <FIQ> hothraxxa: Purple army?
16:07 <FIQ> Oh, purple worms?
16:07 <FIQ> That... isn't true
16:07 <Pinkbeast> I remember summoning storm on Air nearly got me in my first win, but also cursed me of attempting to kill everything I found
16:07 <mcw> FIQ: maybe it is just when your pets do it.
16:07 <FIQ> Well, it is, but for completely unrelated reasons
16:07 <hothraxxa> i assumed taming is nerfed likewise
16:08 <FIQ> 1: Revgeno monsters are still permanent (for now... removing this would remove the entire concept of revgeno being useful, I don't want that)
16:08 <FIQ> 2: Changed AI already nerfed purple rain into oblivion, since it exploits AI flaws
16:08 <FIQ> hothraxxa: Taming is still permanent
16:09 <jonadab> I think I am ok with scroll taming being permanent, but charm monster spell needs some kind of nerf at some point.
16:09 <FIQ> jonadab: at least the spell needs a nerf
16:09 <FIQ> I think taming and magic harps are ok as-is
16:10 <jonadab> I don't have a well-formed opinion on the magic harp at this time.
16:10 <jonadab> But yes, the spell needs a nerf of some kind.
16:10 <hothraxxa> see i thought you'd already done something
16:10 <Pinkbeast> Is confused taming still godlike?
16:10 <FIQ> hothraxxa: No
16:11 <hothraxxa> ok. i probably misread some backscroll or something
16:11 <K2> moving charm monster for lvl 3 to 6 is as good a nerf as any. lvl 6 spells cost a lot of power
16:11 <K2> *from
16:11 <FIQ> oh yeah I forgot I did that...
16:12 <FIQ> actually
16:12 <FIQ> I haven't
16:12 <FIQ> it's still 3
16:12 <FIQ> apparently
16:12 <FIQ> hmm
16:12 <FIQ> oh yeah xnh made it 6
16:12 <FIQ> it should be 7 IMO
16:12 <hothraxxa> my barabian could still cast it but that was before the latest revamp
16:13 <hothraxxa> it SHOULD be charisma influenced
16:14 <FIQ> I made a proposal like that a while back
16:14 <FIQ> being able to proselytize monsters to your cause with #chat if they're peaceful
16:14 <FIQ> which might turn them hostile or tame
16:14 <hothraxxa> make yendor great again
16:14 <FIQ> depending on your level, cha and alignment (Law/Neu/Cha, not record) vs theirs
16:15 <[Demo]> i like dnh char cap on pets
16:16 <dell00> Who's the owner of the hardfought.org server?
16:16 <FIQ> K2:
16:16 <[Demo]> k2
16:16 <dell00> Ok.
16:17 <K2> hi
16:17 <Beholder_> Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought
16:17 <dell00> @K2: Is it ok with you if I spend most of the time on the server idle? Because I was idle for an hour now.
16:17 <dell00> Or should I leave?
16:18 <K2> no thats fine.
16:18 <K2> dgamelaunch will auto save and log you off after one hour of inactivity
16:18 <dell00> I got a message from the server saying the connection closed.
16:18 <dell00> Ok.
16:18 <K2> thanks for asking though
16:19 <K2> manners still exist online! ;)
16:19 <dell00> yw
16:20 <dell00> Also, what's the difference between playing Nethack on the server and playing it locally?
16:20 <Pinkbeast> Bones files, scores, vexing losses of connection
16:20 <K2> heh
16:20 <hothraxxa> voyeurs
16:20 <K2> those plus playing online keeps you honest
16:20 <K2> cant save scum
16:20 <[Demo]> no it doesnt
16:21 <jonadab> Automatic ttyrecs
16:21 <hothraxxa> i don't know what that means, k2
16:21 <Pinkbeast> Assisting developers of your variant of choice
16:21 <hothraxxa> oh save scumming isn't dishonest, it's just not looked on well
16:21 <K2> [Demo] ... sigh
16:21 <[Demo]> it means when ur game breaks and dies someone else has to fix it instead of you
16:21 <K2> hah
16:21 <dell00> Cool. :)
16:21 <K2> and stats
16:21 <K2> lots and lots of stats
16:21 <[Demo]> and ur wins will be taken way more seriously
16:21 <dell00> Comparing stats to other players?
16:21 <[Demo]> yeah that
16:21 <K2> !sb
16:21 <Beholder_> K2: https://www.hardfought.org/nethack/scoreboard (HDF) or https://scoreboard.xd.cm (ALL)
16:22 -!- oh6 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:22 <dell00> Oooh.
16:22 <K2> that second link, that's Mandevil's site. he tracks almost every nethack server on the planet
16:22 <K2> and has for years
16:22 <[Demo]> when did adeon do the rng rainbow table for nao?
16:23 <jonadab> [Demo]: Heh.  He did that specifically so the rng would get patched.  Which it did, promptly.
16:23 <[Demo]> yes
16:23 <[Demo]> but when was that
16:23 <jonadab> Years ago.
16:23 <[Demo]> i wanna have some guess
16:23 <dell00> Is Adeon famous in the Nethack community? I've never heard of him.
16:23 * K2 pokes Adeon
16:23 <jonadab> He used to hold the world record streak.
16:23 <[Demo]> i have a friend i wanna tell about it because its cool but i wanna have a good background to the story
16:23 <dell00> Of what?
16:23 <jonadab> I think he still holds the world-record realtime speedrun.
16:24 <dell00> Oooh.
16:24 <[Demo]> tariru holds the world record for realtime slex extended dungeon speedrun
16:24 <jonadab> He did a realtime speedrun live on stage at the Roguelikes Live thingydoo in San Francisco a few months ago.
16:24 <Pinkbeast> SLEX has perhaps a slightly smaller playerbase
16:24 <jonadab> Tariru holds the current amazing streak record as well.
16:24 <dell00> Is there a video on it?
16:24 <jonadab> dell00: Yes, hang on, let me find that link.
16:24 <K2> Tariru is not human. I think he's Data from ST:TNG and traveled back in time just to play nethack
16:25 <rld> <@Winsalot> jonadab: looking at 4k spoilers, is it possible that d4 damage means 2d4?
16:25 <jonadab> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIB0y_kwFuY
16:25 <jonadab> Err, Roguelike Celebration, not Roguelikes Live.
16:25 <rld> <@Winsalot> for morningstar in particular
16:25 <[Demo]> is he playing arc irl?
16:25 <jonadab> @Winsalot I believe d4 means 1d4, but what's the context?
16:26 <jonadab> Oh, morningstar, lemme check.
16:26 <rld> <@Winsalot> vanilla nethack wiki says morning star is 2d4 vs small, your 4k spoilers say it's just d4
16:26 <[Demo]> i still need to watch the start of tarirus slex run
16:26 <Pinkbeast> Winsalot: cite URLs
16:26 <[Demo]> that is where all the secrets are revealed
16:27 <rld> <@Winsalot> http://jonadab.jumpingcrab.com/nethack-stuff/spoilers-fourk/4.3.0.5/weapon-spoiler.html  https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Morning_star
16:27 <[Demo]> somebody watch it for me cause i have other stuff i need to get done
16:28 <mcw> Is there a reason why rings/amulets are handled differently to armor re: where they go?
16:28 <jonadab> @Winsalot, hmm, objects.c entry for "morning star" in NH4 looks the same as in 3.6.1
16:29 <jonadab> Err, in Fourk, same as in 3.6.1, I mean.
16:29 <[Demo]> history probably
16:29 <rld> <@Winsalot> so it's shit after all?
16:29 <K2> whew glad i caught myself
16:29 <jonadab> 36dev: 1, 0, 0, 12, 120,  10,  4,  6, 0, B,   P_MORNING_STAR, IRON, HI_METAL),
16:29 <rld> <@Winsalot> Yeah, I would have survived if it was actually 2d4 😃
16:29 <K2> almost screwed up the xnh e word/scare conduct
16:29 <jonadab> fourk: 1, 0, 0, 12, 120, 10, 4, 6, 0, B, P_MORNING_STAR, IRON, HI_METAL),
16:30 <jonadab> Wiki claims it does 2d4 vs small.
16:30 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Qwesti (Tou Hum Mal Neu) wished for "Blessed +3 Unicorn Horn", on T:2554
16:30 <jonadab> Hmm, maybe this comment is relevant:  /* +d4 small, +1 large */
16:31 <[Demo]> check what the wikia says and pick something that isnt what it says
16:31 <jonadab> That might mean it's special-cased somewhere?
16:31 <rld> <@Winsalot> time to unveil the secrets of the source code 😃
16:32 <mcw> I think that's what it usually means when there is a comment there, the weapon damage rolls are infuriatingly done, even for non-special weapons.
16:32 <mcw> done = specified
16:32 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) genocided class h, on T:35810
16:32 <FIQ> jonadab: objects.c is not reliable as a means of gathering weapon damage numbers
16:32 <jonadab> FIQ: Apparently.
16:32 <FIQ> some weapons need extensions in dmgval
16:32 <jonadab> FOund the special casing in 3.6
16:32 <FIQ> because objects.c can't do stuff like 2d4
16:32 <jonadab> Need to find the equivalent in NH4.
16:33 <Pinkbeast> Been that way since Hack - another thing that's been that way forever is that a lot of the weapons are useless
16:33 <mcw> Do you think adding legs/belt armor would be good or too much (more variety in what gives which resistance/extrinsics)?
16:33 <mcw> Pinkbeast: amen
16:33 <FIQ> belt armor was actually discussed a while back
16:34 <FIQ> combined with a smaller inventory restriction
16:34 <jonadab> @Winsalot Ok, so what's going on is that the spoiler doesn't know about the special-casing in dmgval in weapon.c
16:34 <mcw> Ah, like quick-potions or something on a belt?
16:35 <jonadab> So in this case the spoiler is incorrect.
16:35 <jonadab> I should do something about this, at some point.
16:36 <FIQ> mcw: exactly
16:36 <FIQ> (and that very example was brought up, heh)
16:36 <mcw> Heh
16:36 <mcw> Well I'mma add the enums and shit for it and can always leave it unused
16:36 <FIQ> you should make slots dynamic
16:37 <FIQ> to allow for stuff like mariliths working correctly
16:37 <FIQ> (6 arms)
16:38 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Qwesti (Tou Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed figurine of an Archon", on T:2588
16:40 <mcw> FIQ: that is not a bad idea...
16:40 <K2> aosdict: i'm in your new and improved gehennom
16:41 <mcw> FIQ: and Two-Headed creatures having two heads!
16:41 <K2> heh yeah
16:41 <mcw> FIQ: So can centaurs wear 4 boots?
16:41 <mcw> Well, 2 sets of*
16:41 <K2> 2 pairs of boots yeah why not
16:42 <jonadab> Because they have hooves, not feet.
16:42 <jonadab> So no, centaurs cannot wear boots.
16:42 <mcw> Killed by a very *very* fast Centaur
16:42 <K2> new magical item: horseshoes of awesomeness
16:42 <mcw> jonadab: Don't make me think of blacksmithing magical horseshoes.
16:42 <jonadab> Heh.
16:42 <mcw> Might make equines actually less poop later
16:43 <FIQ> yeah, hooved creatures should still be unable to wear boots
16:43 <jonadab> Horseshoes of kicking?
16:43 <mcw> jonadab: I was thinking more evil, like, 'of disenchanting'
16:43 <jonadab> Ow.
16:43 * mcw cackles
16:43 <jonadab> EPI: horseshoes of disintegration.  Which hooved creatures can sometimes generate with.
16:44 <mcw> :D
16:44 <mcw> Now we're talkin'
16:44 <jonadab> Or of detonation.
16:44 <jonadab> "The centaur kicks.  You explode!"
16:45 <mcw> 'of knockback', "The centaur kicks. You drown!"
16:49 <K2> aosdict: i'm already a fan of new gehennom
16:49 <K2> this is neat
16:49 <[Demo]> whats xnh new gehennom?
16:49 <hothraxxa> damn i missed your first levels. i had to go and put my bread in the oven
16:49 <dell00> I know about Gehennom, but not *new* Gehennom
16:50 <K2> its ok hothraxxa this is only gehennom lvl 2
16:50 <hothraxxa> oh cool
16:50 <mcw> dell00: This is a variant they are talking about I think.
16:50 <[Demo]> ohhh with maze rooms
16:50 <hothraxxa> aosdict has been making a fuss so i wanted to see it
16:50 <dell00> Hm.
16:50 <K2> dell00: we're running a beta test of a new variant called xNetHack. aosdict is the dev, he just did an overhaul to gehennom
16:51 * Mandevil wonders what's the future for xNetHack
16:51 <hothraxxa> this looks like the biggest change yet
16:51 <K2> i think i might be the first player to reach the new levels... have you seen this yet hothraxxa?
16:51 <K2> or has elenmirie?
16:51 <hothraxxa> no i can't get a gnome arc started :(
16:51 <[Demo]> gnarc
16:51 <K2> Mandevil: it will become fiqhack lite :P
16:51 <hothraxxa> i think you're the first
16:51 <dell00> FYI in Nethack, I never made it past Mine Town, so I guess I'll never reach the new Gehennom :(
16:52 <Pinkbeast> dell00: Read spoilers, play dwarven valks, profit
16:52 <K2> dell00 dont give up! it took me 20 yrs off/on to finally ascend
16:52 <Mandevil> K2: Hm, not sure if that's a net positive.
16:52 <Mandevil> Anyway, I should go play it.
16:52 <Mandevil> I swear no more CeNe's until I ascend xNetHack.
16:53 <dell00> Thanks.
16:53 <dell00> @K2
16:53 <K2> :)
16:53 <Mandevil> dell00: But then K2 really came to his own element.
16:53 <Pinkbeast> K2: Goodness me, _how_?
16:53 <K2> Pinkbeast you mean why did it take so long?
16:53 <Pinkbeast> Mmm.
16:54 <K2> i never played online until a few yars ago
16:54 <K2> years
16:54 <dell00> So playing online *does* help you ascend...
16:54 <dell00> Hm...
16:54 <dell00> I don't see how that works.
16:54 <Pinkbeast> News to me, we didn't have online play in 3.1.3
16:54 <K2> was all local and only spoilers i knew about were what came in a text file with a version i had downloaded 3.1.3 i think)
16:54 <Pinkbeast> dell00: You can easily get advice
16:54 <hothraxxa> playing online and participating in irc helps you ascend
16:55 <[Demo]> yeah ppl watch and tell u what to do
16:55 <dell00> Noice.
16:55 <K2> so NAO was started what year?
16:55 <hothraxxa> watching helps too
16:56 <[Demo]> i watched tariru play so now im as good as tariru
16:56 <Pinkbeast> I'd been playing a few months and getting nowhere, but Mark "atomjack" Mackey unloaded the equivalent of all the important spoilers (most of which didn't exist yet) on me one afternoon and after that it was pretty easy to get a valkyrie home
16:56 * Mandevil just fondly remembers Kerio screaming at me for enchanting my GDSM to +6.
16:56 <[Demo]> i wanna watch adeons archeoligst live speedrun
16:56 <K2> i think my first online game (and subsequently discovering the wiki) was back in 2012?
16:56 <dell00> I didn't know a *cursed* potion of polymorph existed.
16:56 <hothraxxa> i ascended a gnome healer in my 12th game ever because i followed the maniac's ascension guide
16:56 <Mandevil> What does it do?
16:56 <dell00> What effect does it have when it's cursed?
16:57 <[Demo]> if it exists it can be cursed
16:57 <K2> i have 2 local ascensions prior (1st was 2004) but i dont count those because I save scumme dthe hell out of those games
16:57 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought
16:57 <Pinkbeast> hothraxxa: Really? That was a happy coincidence; the MAG is mostly terrible where it's not platitudes
16:57 <Mandevil> I don't think cursed polymorph is any different from blessed/uncursed.
16:57 <K2> heh
16:57 <K2> yeah i played for years without any kind of spoiler
16:57 <K2> just whatever i could discover
16:57 <Pinkbeast> K2: Mmm, I'm only counting not cheating - think I got savescumming out my system in Hack 1.0.3
16:57 <K2> discover
16:57 <hothraxxa> Pinkbeast: i know it's controversial now, i didn't then and it worked beautifully for me
16:58 <K2> brb
16:58 <Pinkbeast> hothraxxa: I think you might take that as a compliment to good play on your part :-)
16:58 <hothraxxa> perhaps, but it gave me a lot of great ideas and help
16:58 <[Demo]> it took me a while to ascend too
16:58 <[Demo]> i blame other factors
16:59 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought
16:59 <K2> damn i miss the 'hack' days
17:00 <K2> when it was all brand spanking new
17:00 <K2> well, newish
17:00 <K2> new to me :P
17:00 <[Demo]> i dont recall nethack ever being new to me
17:00 <dell00> At Dlv3 I'm in the Gnomish Mines.
17:00 <dell00> What do I do?
17:00 <Pinkbeast> Hm, I think I deleted my response to the MAG as no longer very relevant
17:01 <[Demo]> dont die
17:01 <dell00> I'm surrounded by gnomes and gnome lords atm.
17:01 <K2> dell00 whats your handle online playing?
17:01 <[Demo]> smile
17:01 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 562 points, T:1167, killed by a giant bat
17:01 <dell00> I only have a katana.
17:01 <hothraxxa> Pinkbeast: your initials aren't dd by any chance?
17:01 <Pinkbeast> hothraxxa: djsd
17:02 <dell00> K2: I'm Xaleth.
17:02 <K2> a little early to be in the mines
17:02 <hothraxxa> i think it's safe to assume that i'm familiar with your criticisms
17:02 <dell00> Killed off all the gnomes.
17:02 <K2> but doable
17:02 <Pinkbeast> dell00: Leave the mines if it doesn't look survivable? A katana is one of the few non-useless base weapons, though
17:02 <K2> he just made xp lvl 3 (samurai)
17:02 <dell00> Pinkbeast what do I do in the first two dungeon levels?
17:03 <dell00> Yup.
17:03 <Pinkbeast> dell00: Explore, kill monsters, take their stuff, stash it? I have no idea what this question is getting at.
17:03 <K2> do you know what the goal is for the mines dell00?
17:03 <[Demo]> a junethack trophy
17:03 <dell00> @K2 nnnnope.
17:04 <K2> at the bottom of the mines is a luckstone. good to have
17:04 <hothraxxa> his current objective should be minetown
17:04 <K2> you'll need to ID it though (appears as a gray stone)
17:04 <K2> well yeah
17:04 <hothraxxa> actually he should leave, but he might make it
17:04 <K2> just mentioning the end state
17:04 <dell00> I remember trying to dig down the bottom level of the mines with a pickaxe, but couldn't go down.
17:05 <dell00> I went to mine town, but couldn't go any further.
17:05 <K2> hrm
17:05 <dell00> I have absolutely no idea how to get out of the mines.
17:05 <K2> minetown is roughly half way down
17:05 <Pinkbeast> dell00: Out the stairs you came in?
17:05 <dell00> I know.
17:05 <K2> yeah you have upsatirs in the bottom right of your map
17:05 <hothraxxa> he can do this it looks like
17:06 <hothraxxa> or she
17:06 <dell00> Pinkbeast: yes.
17:06 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:06 <hothraxxa> dude1 slow down
17:07 <Pinkbeast> dell00: I feel like there is some fundamental misapprehension you labour under and I'm not sure what it is.
17:07 <hothraxxa> dell00: mattocks can be cursed
17:07 <[Demo]> yeah
17:07 <dell00> Really?
17:07 <mcw>         bool IsBig: 1;
17:07 <mcw>         bool IsHard: 1;
17:07 <mcw> Hmm....
17:07 <hothraxxa> yes. picks are ok
17:08 <dell00> That's my inventory.
17:08 <dell00> I'll leave it up there for a while for you to see.
17:08 <hothraxxa> you don't need that mattock
17:08 <dell00> Is it food or something?
17:08 <hothraxxa> use the pick if you have to dig. your katana is a better weapon
17:08 <dell00> Ok.
17:09 <Pinkbeast> dell00: Aha, I think I know what it is. The dungeon doesn't continue out the bottom of the Mines. The Mines are a branch. There are two downstairs on the level you found the Mines.
17:09 <[Demo]> dos xnh buff asmo?
17:09 <dell00> I got rid of the mattock
17:09 <hothraxxa> demo: i don't think so
17:09 <dell00> Pinkbeast: where does the other set of stairs lead to?
17:09 <Pinkbeast> dell00: The rest of the dungeon.
17:10 <dell00> Ohhh...
17:11 <dell00> Dead.
17:11 <dell00> Moved too fast, hindered space for my thought.
17:11 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Xaleth (Sam Hum Mal Law), 1104 points, T:803, killed by a pony
17:11 <K2> [Demo] no
17:11 <dell00> :(
17:13 <dell00> Are the Sokoban levels required for you to go through in order to get to Gehennom?
17:13 <Pinkbeast> No.
17:13 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed Asmodeus, on T:36448
17:13 <K2> dell00 both sokoban and the gnomish mines are optional
17:14 <K2> dont have to go through them
17:14 <[Demo]> sokoban sucks and isnt fun
17:14 <K2> recommend that you do both imo
17:14 <[Demo]> lokoban is rad and cool
17:14 <mcw> Sokoban sucks and is poop but you have to do it
17:15 <mcw> "have to" = unless you get super lucky
17:15 <dell00> Why?
17:15 <mcw> Has a nice prize at the end.
17:15 <[Demo]> aosdict you should put sunken treasure in the maze water rooms
17:15 <[Demo]> with all the fishes
17:15 <dell00> Like a teleporter, or something?
17:15 <[Demo]> lokoban has the same prizes
17:15 <K2> dell00 dont listen to [Demo] mostly, he's glass if half empty type ;)
17:15 <mcw> YASI: Arc quest should be a scavenger hunt across the entire dungeon.
17:15 <[Demo]> with none of the bullshit
17:16 <[Demo]> actually it has worse bullshit
17:16 <[Demo]> but its funnier to me
17:16 <mcw> "You need to go to the place that doesn't sound right"
17:16 <K2> look at this level all
17:16 <K2> (watch my game)
17:16 <[Demo]> is there sunken treaasure/
17:16 <[Demo]> in the room?
17:16 <K2> this is bad ass
17:16 <mcw> Ok K2 that is broken to hell on my terminal
17:16 <mcw> Are you IBMgraphics?
17:16 <[Demo]> hit s
17:16 <K2> yes
17:16 <[Demo]> until it works
17:16 <dell00> Ewwww.
17:17 <K2> IBMgraphics for the win
17:17 <dell00> UTF-8 for the win, actually.
17:17 <dell00> :)
17:17 <[Demo]> oh wow a church
17:17 <K2> opinions vary
17:17 <[Demo]> or whatever a temple is called
17:17 <[Demo]> didntn otice that
17:17 <K2> yeah! a temple and a swimming pool
17:17 <K2> in hell
17:17 <mcw> I'm scared https://i.imgur.com/humneZh.png
17:17 <[Demo]> just hit s a few times
17:18 <mcw> [Demo]: me hit s?
17:18 <K2> i cant make the game look the way i want (nh3) with just utf-8
17:18 <mcw> Ah, cool, what does s do? Change mode?
17:18 <K2> yes
17:19 <K2> gonna go visit that temple
17:19 <[Demo]> go find jesus
17:20 <mcw> [Demo]: thanks :)
17:21 <[Demo]> oh hmm i might steal some of aosdict's new potion vapors for the vaping patch
17:22 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed Juiblex, on T:36610
17:22 <mcw> K2: anticlimactic
17:22 <K2> yeah
17:22 <K2> that was... too easy
17:22 <mcw> Free the bear trapped titan!
17:22 <mcw> storm giant*
17:22 <mcw> He will be your friend forever
17:24 <mcw> these maps are pretty cool aosdict 
17:24 <K2> agreed
17:30 <aosdict> hothraxxa: [backscroll] Any mobbing when you enter the Valley of the Dead is purely coincidental, since it doesn't use the room generation code that makes extra monsters.
17:30 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed Baalzebub, on T:36976
17:34 <K2> heh
17:36 <aosdict> K2: [backscroll] it's not intended as a gehennom overhaul on par with jonadab's or ais523's... just trying to make it less boring
17:38 <aosdict> [Demo]: There *is* sunken treasure in the water rooms. A chest, randomly placed. 1/10 of them contain a magic lamp.
17:38 <K2> its more than just less boring
17:39 <K2> this is distinctly different
17:39 <K2> in a good way
17:39 <[Demo]> thats a good bribe
17:39 * aosdict catches up, spectates.
17:39 <[Demo]> most of those rooms you have no reason to enter
17:39 <[Demo]> but a wish chance? thats neat
17:40 <aosdict> K2: The main thing I like about the rooms is how chaotic they make the maze by tearing it up.
17:41 <K2> i like it
17:42 <aosdict> I don't think I've added the level sound for Vlad's tower yet.
17:43 <[Demo]> i wanna do a fleshy horror branch
17:43 <aosdict> Actually AFAIK I never came up with a good sound in the first place.
17:46 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:37518
17:46 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:37519
17:46 <aosdict> \o/
17:46 <[Demo]> the candelabrum of innovation
17:46 <hothraxxa> aosdict: i was not being serious about xnh being the cause of the vod mob
17:47 <hothraxxa> that's not really how it works 
17:47 <[Demo]> thats a very counter nethack change
17:47 <[Demo]> and i dont like it
17:47 <[Demo]> the whole xnh initial mob/lower mons gen thing
17:47 <[Demo]> its against the spirit of nethack or something something something
17:47 <[Demo]> idk
17:47 <hothraxxa> nah
17:47 <[Demo]> i wanna call it un-nethack but that would be confusing
17:47 <hothraxxa> it makes it harder to start a weak role
17:48 <K2> i dont have magical breathing or wands of cold on me at the moment
17:48 <hothraxxa> dwarf valks can mow down the enemies and level up faster
17:48 <K2> otherwise i'd go fishing
17:50 <[Demo]> if xnh was cool it would add more water and fish and a fisherman role
17:50 <hothraxxa> and pirates
17:50 <[Demo]> and explosions
17:50 <[Demo]> add like pokemon style fishing
17:50 <hothraxxa> fiqhack has explosions. i don't like those
17:50 <[Demo]> oh those are mean explosions
17:51 <[Demo]> not cool ones
17:51 <mcw> Quick question - what do people think of this as a way to define object ("classes") https://pastebin.com/raw/fTZk3yYL ?
17:51 <aosdict> K2: Some item that you can use to get stuff out of water would be cool, I agree. One that's more common than a grappling hook.
17:51 <mcw> Purely from a readability perspective.
17:51 <mcw> aosdict: Fishing Rod!
17:51 <[Demo]> make it read from a json file
17:51 <mcw> [Demo]: I was tempted to do that
17:52 <mcw> [Demo]: But then you don't get autocompeltion in the json file right?
17:52 <mcw> autocompletion, even
17:52 <aosdict> mcw: If you're reimplementing from the ground up, get rid of stupid things like the vs small/vs large damage dichotomy.
17:52 <mcw> aosdict: I wondered that, but then, if I make them WILDLY different
17:52 <[Demo]> yeah
17:52 <mcw> It means you can't have a one-size-fits-all weapon
17:53 <mcw> But yes, small and large is weird.
17:53 <[Demo]> clearly it has a valid design goal but it does not solve the problem that it solves in the best way possible
17:53 <[Demo]> so come up with some better shit
17:53 <[Demo]> i believe in you
17:53 <aosdict> K2: OOOO
17:53 <Pinkbeast> Ditch all the useless polearms (and redo all the useless weapons)
17:53 <hothraxxa> the early rodney bug is fixed
17:53 <K2> heh
17:53 <FIQ> [Demo]: "fishing"
17:54 <aosdict> mcw: Yes, this sacrifices the ability to want to train weapons that are weak early game and strong late game
17:54 <FIQ> aka pull a fishrod in the water, wait for dots, then you catch something
17:54 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed the invisible Orcus, on T:37818
17:54 <mcw> Pinkbeast: yeah, I want to MPGA !!
17:54 <Pinkbeast> aosdict: Isn't this kind of academic unless the late game becomes something other than "use the best available artifact"
17:54 <aosdict> "You pull a kraken from the water! The kraken hits! The kraken drowns you! DYWYPI?"
17:54 <[Demo]> yeah
17:55 <aosdict> Pinkbeast: I guess so.
17:55 <Pinkbeast> mcw: I want to see no references to Twitler at all but it's an imperfect universe
17:55 <[Demo]> nethack has dots and waiting
17:55 <mcw> Pinkbeast: I am hoping that my lategame *will* be something other than that.
17:55 <[Demo]> it would be perfect for pkmn fishing
17:55 <aosdict> Pinkbeast: IMO, the real solution is to make skill the biggest factor towards damage by far.
17:55 <FIQ> mcw: wait, is describe a subclass of named?
17:55 <FIQ> because if so, while it's *readable*, the code backing it up would be insane
17:55 <Pinkbeast> aosdict: I had a proposal which also addressed the never-miss problem
17:55 <mcw> No, one is the real name, one is the appearance
17:56 <FIQ> recent C standards, and presumably C++ too, have .foo => "bar"
17:56 <mcw> FIQ: nah it's a builder so each method up to End() return Builder&
17:56 <mcw> FIQ: true for the simpler fields, but annoying for damage
17:57 <mcw> FIQ: looks like https://pastebin.com/raw/VDvXRy1u
17:57 <mcw> Then End() returns the actual ObjectSpec
17:58 <mcw> I refuse to call it an ObjectClass, because to me, a "class of objects" is (, , ", !, etc.
18:01 <aosdict> vanilla would call it "sobj"
18:02 <mcw> who called it struct objclass?
18:09 <K2> aosdict: you should make gehennom end like the new random levels you made
18:15 <K2> dinner time bbl
18:17 <aosdict> you want the Sanctum replaced...?
18:18 <hothraxxa> aosdict: the link from the wiki page to your full changelog is a 404
18:22 <[Demo]> replace the sanctum with amy's elder priest
18:23 <aosdict> hothraxxa: there are now two changelogs... not sure what the best way is to track multiple ones.
18:24 <hothraxxa> i suggest not a 404 
18:25 <mcw> Cool, creatures can have up to 4 pairs of arms, which means 8 rings!
18:25 <mcw> Technically *you* can have up to 4 pairs of arms...
18:26 <mcw> there is going to have to be some pretty big downsides to that
18:26 <aosdict> hothraxxa: fixed
18:27 <mcw> Hmm, do you think I'd ever want a creature that had two sets of legs, but one set is hooved, the other regular (or any combination) ?
18:27 <K2> aosdict no not the sanctum
18:27 <aosdict> mcw: in D&D the downside was that you would have huge XP penalties... but in nethack that's not really a concern
18:27 <K2> the bottom of the mazes where the VS is
18:28 <mcw> aosdict: was thinking a speed penalty on attacking
18:28 <K2> make it generate like the other levels
18:28 <K2> brb
18:29 <mcw> aosdict: so your damage-per-turn would be the same. pro: more rings, con: monsters will hit you more between rounds.
18:29 <aosdict> K2: That's currently ineligible because I didn't test the interaction between room generation and VS generation (don't want the ring of fire and water crashing through a room), and didn't want someone's game to be ruined by having the VS fail to generate.
18:30 <aosdict> mcw: I'm not understanding why monsters get faster just because you have more limbs
18:32 <dell00> Connection closed with hardfought.org again... *sigh*
18:32 <aosdict> mcw: oh, speed penalty on attacking
18:33 <mcw> aosdict: yeah, so moving around is fine, but if you actually use those extra arms, it takes you a bit of time to coordiante!
18:33 <mcw> coordinate, god I have spelled that wrong so many times today...
18:34 <mcw> At one point I was tempted to #define Coordiante Coordinate :-\
18:34 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Xaleth (Val Dwa Fem Law), 214 points, T:944, killed by a fox, while fainted from lack of food
18:35 <dell00> Dang.
18:35 <dell00> I'm so bad at Nethack.
18:35 <mcw> dell00: everyone is when they start :)
18:36 <mcw> dell00: the seeing yourself (slowly) improve is kinda what makes it fun
18:36 <aosdict> Coordante, noun: Number describing the depth of the circle of hell you have descended into.
18:36 <dell00> mcw: true.
18:36 <dell00> :)
18:36 <mcw> aosdict: aka: dlevel?
18:40 <hothraxxa> aosdict: thanks
18:41 <[Demo]> i dont understand how the dungeon works
18:41 <hothraxxa> so another one of my favourite techniques is gone. no more pw level increase from foocubi :(
18:43 <dell00> What do gauntlets do to you?
18:43 <dell00> Leather gauntlets.
18:44 <dell00> Do they deal more damage when punching, or something?
18:45 <Pinkbeast> You in a variant? At least in 3.4.3, there aren't "leather gauntlets"
18:51 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Orcus, on T:37108
18:52 <hothraxxa> dell00: gloves of any kind protect you from instadeath if you touch a cockatrice corpse
18:53 <[Demo]> u can punch a guy with ur enchantment yeah
18:53 <hothraxxa> leather gloves give you +1 ac and can be enchanted to add more 
18:53 <[Demo]> idk if that applies to vanilla but in slashem it adds enchantment to unarmed combat
18:53 <[Demo]> cant recall
18:53 <mcw> AC is good
19:04 <mcw> The goblin can hit me now! https://www.tubhack.com/ttyrecs/tubhack.mhitu1.ttyrec.html
19:04 <mcw> Well, he always hits, but he attempts to use whatever weapon(s) he's wielding
19:05 <hothraxxa> silly goblin
19:05 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:37952
19:05 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:37954
19:05 <mcw> hothraxxa: he is quite silly indeedly
19:06 <mcw> Now I need to decide how to handle AC
19:06 <mcw> I mean, I actually quite like that it is slightly opaque in that in general, "more AC = better"
19:06 <mcw> But it's also a bit opaque. :-\
19:07 <[Demo]> do it like nethack cause thats classic
19:07 <[Demo]> respect tradition
19:11 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Qwesti (Tou Hum Mal Neu) eschewed atheism, by dropping an athame named Magicbane on an altar, on T:4084
19:11 <mcw> I think my 8 armed gnome wielding *all* the banes is already not respecting tradition?
19:11 <[Demo]> fun is a tradition
19:11 <[Demo]> and that sounds fun
19:12 <[Demo]> is the source for this on any github repo or are you keeping it on the down low?
19:14 <dell00> hothraxxa: thanks!
19:15 <hothraxxa> np. you should refer to the wiki a lot, that's the easiest way to find out things
19:19 <FIQ> mcw: grats, you're farther than my fiqrogue thing I did some years ago
19:19 <mcw> FIQ: don't worry I'm sure I'll burnout at some point. Hopefully not though, I'm having a bunch of fun doing this.
19:19 <FIQ> heh
19:19 <K2> :)
19:19 <mcw> And it's probably one of the very few projects work will let me continue to do in my own time.
19:19 <FIQ> well I've been tinkering with fiqhack since 2015...
19:20 <FIQ> july 2015 to be exact
19:20 <FIQ> almost 3 years, geez
19:20 <[Demo]> get fiqd
19:20 <mcw> I can't think 3 days ahead let alone 3 years. :)
19:26 <mcw> [Demo]: slightly down-low, https://git.tubhack.com/mcw/tubhack will definitely go on github, but not ready yet
19:27 <[Demo]> i think i could learn a thing or two about C++ from it
19:27 <mcw> Want to make it so it is a turd before then, rather than a steaming pile of turd. :)
19:27 <mcw> I make a new AdjacencyMatrix every time I pathfind, for example. :(
19:28 <mcw> Actually, I should really run clang-format on this, I am super duper inconsistent with stuff like 'const blah& blah' and 'const blah &blah'
19:28 <[Demo]> ah
19:28 <FIQ> mcw: what do monsters pathfind to anyway
19:28 <FIQ> do they always know where you are
19:29 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:39205
19:29 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:39206
19:32 <mcw> FIQ: currently, I'm reading through strategy() and tactics() as a side project.
19:32 <FIQ> tactics is only used for covetous monsters
19:33 <FIQ> also, you really want to read the NH4 version of these
19:33 <FIQ> NH3's AI is buggy
19:34 -!- Tariru has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:34 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:39385
19:34 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:39387
19:34 <mcw> FIQ: yeah I have nh4 open on other monitor pretty much constantly :)
19:35 <mcw> the only thing that scares me until I am forced to do it is the main game loop with the server/client cmd structs
19:35 <mcw> But that is something I am 100% hand-waving about until the future
19:37 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) performed the invocation, on T:39511
19:37 <mcw> I can't believe how long I spent faffing about trying to integrate a pre-existing pathfinder though, the funny thing is, at the same time you said "just use dijkstra", I had started writing my graph code.
19:37 <mcw> Which took all of 15mins and seems to work.
19:37 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:39522
19:38 <mcw> K2: go go
19:39 <mcw> It'd be nice if bholder (the log?) mentioned which dlevel you were on when you killed the wizard each time.
19:43 <mcw> [Demo]: so you reckon keep the current AC system, I know some variants let you view it as Def rather than AC, but it is still the same. I kinda wanted to separate hit-rate from damage-reduction
19:45 <[Demo]> dnethack is doing that soon
19:45 <[Demo]> uhhh
19:45 <aosdict> mcw: you probably have enough on your plate without dealing with the tons of balance issues that would result from changing the combat system
19:45 <[Demo]> chris and some other people have some documentation on that
19:46 <aosdict> mcw: nobody has a complete proposal that looks good yet
19:46 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed the invisible high priest of Moloch, on T:39761
19:46 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:39762
19:46 <dell00> :O
19:47 <dell00> Beholder: Congratulations!
19:48 <aosdict> dell00: K2 is the one doing these things.
19:48 <mcw> aosdict: thansk, that makes a lot of sense, I'll stick with the current system and then keep my beady eye on other proposals, but yes, you're right, I should focus on the goal.
19:49 <aosdict> and maybe reimplementing the bad parts from scratch will give some additional insight into what needs to change
19:50 <mcw> aosdict: that's also very true!
20:01 <mcw> Oh I found out why medusa's gaze killed me through life-saving, she does it in dochug rather than mhitu
20:06 <K2> this hwole game, no ring of free action ;)
20:06 <K2> whole
20:06 <K2> one last polypile shot
20:10 <aosdict> I may implement hothraxxa's idea that you can dip a ring of poly control into a potion of poly to turn it into a ring of your choice
20:11 <K2> that would be awesome
20:14 <aosdict> does the message "You feel a strange zeal" sound too corny because of the rhyme?
20:18 <K2> S - an uncursed ring of free action.
20:18 <K2> turn 41308
20:18 <K2> wwwoooooo
20:20 <K2> ok break, brb
20:23 <Tarmunora> @mcw: Here are a few AC proposals that were made for dnh: https://etherpad.net/p/dNethack_AC
20:25 <aosdict> oh boy, now comes the fun part: thinking up hallu messages for these sacrifice clues
20:27 <Tarmunora> What are the clues?
20:27 <mcw> Tarmunora: thanks :)
20:28 <Tarmunora> Feel free to look through and add to the rest of the pages as well
20:28 <Tarmunora> Just be sure to add your name and colour to the index page first
20:36 <mcw> The annoying this is, thematically a light-armour wearing rogue dodging attacks is awesome, but in terms of gameplay, miss mechanics will always lead to damage variance. But just having DR is boring because sometimes variance is fun.
20:37 <mcw> I'mgoing to chew on it while showering etc, but I'm taking aosdict's advice to heart and implementing the current AC system.
20:37 <mcw> It's not particularly complicated which means it's not a huge amount of sunk cost.
20:38 <mcw> Tarmunora: how insane would a speed penalty on heavier armour be? :-)
20:41 <aosdict> mcw: oh great, more reasons to avoid heavy metal armor?
20:41 <mcw> aosdict: Sure but then you get pounded by minotaurs more
20:42 <aosdict> mcw: under vanilla's combat system, dragon scale mail is lighter and better in every regard than, say, a plate mail, and is better versus minotaurs.
20:43 <mcw> aosdict: true - I was thinking in a dnh world
20:43 <mcw> Where dsm is I believe heavier.
20:43 <aosdict> Tarmunora: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Phol_ende_wodan/FavorProposal#Sacrifice_clues - also if you have any feedback on the rest of the proposal that'd be great ^_^
20:48 <mcw> aosdict: For major trouble, feels like you should be able to pray if (favor > 0), and it will reduce favor to a minimum of 0, i.e. you don't need 200 favor to save from sliming, but if you have > 200, it will still drain that amount.
20:49 <aosdict> mcw: This is why characters start off with positive favor.
20:49 <mcw> Sure, but it would be a bit sucky if you were trundling along at some point, fell into lava, prayed with 149 favour and died.
20:50 <mcw> Seems like your god should help a little bit there.
20:50 <aosdict> It seems reasonable to me that if your only interaction with the god has been to ask them to save your bacon several times, and you never did anything good in return, they'd eventually get sick of it.
20:50 <mcw> True that, but you have prayer timeout to fix that too
20:50 <mcw> So if you fell in *again*, you'd get your -2.5*timeout
20:50 <mcw> Which would make him/her way mad
20:51 <aosdict> in xnh you can't fall into lava by accident anyway :)
20:51 <aosdict> you would have to be trying pretty hard
20:51 <mcw> :)
20:51 <mcw> I stress only for major troubles.
20:52 <aosdict> Possibly, praying to fix a major trouble if your favor is insufficient should succeed only with (actual favor)/(favor cost) chance.
20:53 <mcw> Yeah that sounds good, will make for more butt-clenchy prayer!
20:55 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) entered the Planes, on T:42348
20:55 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:42349
21:00 <mcw> aosdict: this is a lot less opaque than currently, I like it a lot - if I stole it I would probably make favor costs increase each time they are granted.
21:00 <mcw> At least for the troubles
21:01 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:42474
21:01 <mcw> K2:  is a Rodney killing machine
21:02 <Tarmunora> aosdict: Do huge chunks of meat exist in xnh?
21:02 <aosdict> Yes, currently.
21:02 <aosdict> That may be a loophole.
21:03 <[Demo]> ahhh yeah
21:03 <[Demo]> good catch
21:03 <Tarmunora> 1000 favor per boulder
21:03 <[Demo]> damn whyd you have to catch that :P
21:03 <aosdict> Yeah, perhaps I should remove the food-sacrifice bit
21:03 <[Demo]> would have been fun to have a maxed healer
21:03 <dell00> hothraxxa: how did you make your stats colored?
21:03 <aosdict> I'm don't favor it that much (heh(
21:03 <Tarmunora> OR, change HCoMeat to be 'corpses' with a sac-value of 0, so that they'd also rot and decay (would likely cause other issues though)
21:03 <dell00> You know, the stats you see with your HP, Dlvl, In, Wi, etc.
21:04 <hothraxxa> dell00: you can set status colors in your rc
21:04 <aosdict> now why did I have that in the first place...?
21:04 <dell00> hothraxxa with what option?
21:04 <hothraxxa> take a look at my rc
21:04 <aosdict> I think it was so you would have some reason NOT to sit around at an altar doing nothing but munching on your food waiting for more spawns?
21:04 <dell00> OPTIONS=statcolors?
21:04 <dell00> hothraxxa: how do I look at you rc?
21:04 <Tarmunora> Or just taken straight from FIQ's proposal?
21:05 <Tarmunora> Though he also had saccing gold iirc
21:05 <aosdict> No, the elements of this proposal predate FIQ's.
21:05 <hothraxxa> https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/h/hothraxxa/xnethack/hothraxxa.xnhrc
21:05 * Tarmunora shrugs
21:07 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) genocided class ;, on T:42602
21:08 <aosdict> guess I know where K2 is
21:09 <hothraxxa> the plane of wait-here-and-eventually-the-portal-will-come-to-you
21:10 <aosdict> OK, added the hallucinatory sacrifice clues - do any seem weird or out of place?
21:11 <Tarmunora> eudaimonious?
21:11 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed Pestilence, on T:42670
21:12 <aosdict> dunno, a hallucinating player *does* seem to have an expanded vocabulary...
21:13 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed Pestilence, on T:42691
21:13 <hothraxxa> w00t! luckstone before minetown
21:14 <Tarmunora> I think that it's a little too 'out there'
21:14 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed Pestilence, on T:42704
21:14 <dell00> What does a "magic marker" do?
21:14 <Tarmunora> You can write scrolls and spellbooks on blank paper/books
21:15 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed Pestilence, on T:42724
21:15 <dell00> Oooh.
21:15 <Tarmunora> With only a chance of success for writing unIDed, better chance if you are a wizard
21:16 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed Pestilence, on T:42739
21:16 <Tarmunora> ie: You can try to write a spellbook of finger of death, but you probably won't get it unless you've IDed FoD before in that game
21:16 <dell00> What key do I press to disarm a trap?
21:16 <dell00> Bear trap.
21:16 <dell00> I'm using the traditional roguelike keymap.
21:17 <mcw> dell00: type '#untrap'
21:17 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed Pestilence, on T:42775
21:18 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed Famine, on T:42787
21:19 <hothraxxa> you can't untrap a bear trap if you're trapped by it
21:19 <hothraxxa> you have to move away, preferrably on a diagonal
21:19 <K2> lol wow
21:19 <K2> aosdict
21:19 <K2> every single trip to astral i've made in xnh, has been the grand tour
21:20 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed Famine, on T:42811
21:21 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed the invisible Death, on T:42823
21:21 -!- tacco| has quit []
21:22 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu) killed the invisible Death, on T:42836
21:22 <rld> <@!! Jay !!> Man, Beholder.
21:22 <rld> <@!! Jay !!> Wow.
21:23 <rld> <@!! Jay !!> I never made it past Sokoban, lol.
21:23 <hothraxxa> beholder is a bot reporting on the progress of k2
21:24 <hothraxxa> who just ascended
21:24 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Ran Gno Mal Neu), 2241708 points, T:42860, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/xnethack/dumplog/1523712124.xnh.txt
21:24 <hothraxxa> first scarelss i think
21:24 <aosdict> K2: clearly it's a conspiracy to shuffle the altars so you always get the grand tour
21:24 <K2> of course ;)
21:24 <mcw> Congrats K2 :-)
21:25 <K2> thanks!
21:25 <mcw> !streak K2
21:25 <Beholder_> mcw: K2 Max[xnh]: 4 (2018-03-30 - 2018-04-15)(current).
21:25 <K2> i'm on a 4 streak now
21:25 <K2> daaaaaaamn
21:25 <mcw> one day I will streak
21:25 <K2> i usually dont streak at all
21:25 <mcw> Depends on how sweaty I get really
21:25 <mcw> >_>
21:25 <K2> i've had a couple 2 streaks but they have always been short lived
21:26 <[Demo]> nice win
21:26 <K2> thx
21:26 <K2> i never used the bow
21:27 <mcw> Does anyone?
21:27 <K2> i have in the past
21:27 <K2> but gnome rangers start with a crossbow
21:27 <mcw> My first ever ascension was an elven ranger using stormbringer
21:27 <mcw> K2: yeah, need a crossbow artifact
21:27 <rld> <@!! Jay !!> !streak K2
21:27 <Beholder_> @!! Jay !!: K2 Max[xnh]: 4 (2018-03-30 - 2018-04-15)(current).
21:30 <K2> damn, i forgot to do purple rain
21:30 <K2> had all those markers
21:30 <[Demo]> ouch
21:31 <K2> aosdict: REALLY like the new gehennom
21:32 <K2> good job there
21:32 <rld> <@!! Jay !!> What new stuff did you encounter in new gehennom, K2?
21:32 <K2> so the mazes become sort of like a disjointed series of a couple different rooms and/or open areas
21:33 <K2> you'll find graceyards, pools, even temples with a priest and altar
21:33 <K2> graveyards
21:33 <K2> and nests
21:33 <K2> as in nests of demons or devils
21:34 <K2> sometimes the stairs are in those rooms...
21:34 <K2> its much more interesting than vanilla maze
21:35 <K2> other variants have done things like the Lethe patch to make gehennom more appealing as well, but what xnethack has now, I really enjoy
21:35 <[Demo]> i watched a good bit of it and it did indeed seem neat
21:35 <K2> wow
21:36 <K2> if [Demo] liked it, you know it's decent
21:36 <K2> :P
21:36 <[Demo]> i like a lot of shit id just rather complain about the shit i dont like
21:36 <K2> hahah
21:36 <[Demo]> cause most of the shit i like isnt at risk of change
21:36 <[Demo]> but like yeah gotta protect the interesting gehennom
21:39 <aosdict> K2: you found *only* peaceful priests in those temples?
21:39 <K2> i think this game was just the one temple
21:39 <K2> and yes it was peaceful
21:39 <K2> (moloch)
21:40 <aosdict> See, that's a seminary, and there should be at least one hostile priest there as well as the peaceful.
21:40 <K2> if i had been playing a dual wielding valk or samurai i would have cleared out every room on every level
21:40 <K2> but even high level rangers can be squishy, so i booked it down and up as fast as I could
21:40 <aosdict> Well, I guess it could fail to make the hostiles. Rarely.
21:41 <K2> a hostile priest would add some flavor
21:41 <aosdict> there should have been some hostiles
21:41 <K2> get ya prepped for astral
21:41 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Qwesti (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 2922 points, T:5625, killed by a jaguar, while reading a book
21:41 <K2> would it always be an altar to moloch? i guess it would have to be
21:42 <K2> since you're in gehennom
21:42 <K2> also, why does the game say you enter gehennom when you reach the VotD?
21:42 <K2> correction - why does the livelog say it?
21:42 <aosdict> Dunno, didn't change that.
21:42 <K2> hmm
21:43 <K2> that *might* be a small bug?
21:43 <[Demo]> why hasnt breaking the seal on hell been removed?
21:44 <[Demo]> hasnt that not been relevant since hell left?
21:44 <aosdict> Random non-temple altars can generate in Gehennom, but are currently all unaligned. I'm contemplating making some aligned and possibly convertable (you would then be able to pray in Gehennom only on a coaligned altar).
21:44 <K2> livelog announces ebtering gehennom when you reach the VotD, but in game you dont get that message until going down the stairs FROM the VotD
21:44 <K2> aosdict: hah wow
21:44 <K2> thats significant
21:44 <K2> would E word also work on said co-aligned altar?
21:45 <aosdict> You can't engrave on altars, the god gets mad.
21:45 <K2> ah
21:45 <aosdict> (That's in vanilla.)
21:45 <K2> i did not know that
21:45 <K2> never tried 
21:45 <aosdict> Scare monster would, I guess.
21:45 <[Demo]> you never do it on accident?
21:46 <mcw> FIQ: in fiqhack you can P or W interchangeably right?
21:46 <K2> [Demo] the only time i engrave anything is if i have a weapon at +6 and want to dull it down to +5 so i can try for +7
21:46 <aosdict> so it seems like you saw 4 of the 7 types of gehennom special rooms
21:46 <[Demo]> you dont have crazy typos?
21:47 <[Demo]> where you end up Eing shit or ctrl Eing in variants that have that bound to write elbereth in the dust
21:47 <K2> aosdict: so i saw graveyard, pool, temple, nest (demon types)
21:47 <K2> oh and a small room with laval pools
21:47 <K2> lava
21:47 <aosdict> 5 then
21:47 <K2> was the last a salamander hatchery or something similar?
21:47 <aosdict> the other two are the creepy ones
21:47 <aosdict> so you may have missed out on some atmosphere
21:48 <K2> noticed a lot of salamanders
21:48 <[Demo]> butchery?
21:48 <aosdict> I'll let you discover them for yourself next time :)
21:48 <K2> heh nice
21:48 <K2> it's gonna be awhile before i play again
21:48 <aosdict> K2: Lava pool rooms do generate salamanders.
21:48 <K2> leave on vacation in a couple days, not going to start another game until i get back
21:56 <aosdict> Oh, lovely. makedefs defines LAST_GEM to be JADE. Meaning that if you added new gems after jade, all sorts of things would start breaking and it would take forever to figure out
21:57 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:41157
21:57 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:41158
21:57 <[Demo]> Chris knows about that
21:59 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Xaleth (Sam Hum Mal Law), 67 points, T:401, killed by a bear trap
21:59 <dell00> I died trying to #untrap a bear trap.
21:59 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) performed the invocation, on T:41323
21:59 <dell00> :(
22:09 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:41552
22:09 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:41556
22:12 <dell00> Why are there penalties for praying?
22:13 <dell00> Nvm.
22:14 <dell00> I see Leggman is consistently being teleported somewhere else whenever he tries to climb up stairs in Gehennom. Why is this the case?
22:14 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:41870
22:16 <hothraxxa> dell00: that is the notorious "mysterious force" that affects you if you are carrying the amulet
22:16 <hothraxxa> it can be quite frustrating
22:16 <hothraxxa> i once had to go through orcus town 16 times
22:17 <hothraxxa> it is worst for lawfuls and affects chaotics the least
22:17 <hothraxxa> https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Mysterious_force
22:18 <dell00> Wow...
22:18 <hothraxxa> xnethack and some other variants have removed it
22:20 -!- greqrg has quit [Quit: Disconnected]
22:21 <hothraxxa> aosdict: you might want to add that to the mf page
22:21 <dell00> So xnethack is the noob-friendly version of nethack?
22:21 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 994 points, T:2071, killed by a giant beetle
22:21 <aosdict> mf page?
22:21 <hothraxxa> no that would be nethack 4
22:21 <hothraxxa> mysterious force
22:22 <aosdict> hothraxxa: For two reasons I'm not going to edit other pages about things xnh is done.
22:22 <aosdict> has*
22:22 <K2> the noob friendly variant would be vanilla
22:22 <K2> which isnt a variant ;)
22:22 <hothraxxa> nope, nh4 
22:23 <hothraxxa> oh. we're playing that game
22:23 <K2> nh4 is just a copy of 3.4.3 on nh4 code base
22:23 <[Demo]> I thought fiqhack was
22:23 <K2> well fiqhack has an easy mode now
22:23 <aosdict> One is practical: I'm already tired of keeping the changelogs and main wiki page updated. The other is philosophical (FIQ philosophy): if people want to make those notes themselves, great, but I'm only going to put xnh changes on the xnh page.
22:23 <hothraxxa> yes there's that
22:24 <aosdict> For the record, I don't really have a problem with xnethack becoming the noob-friendly version of 3.6.1 and beyond.
22:24 <K2> i dont think its easier than vanilla
22:24 <aosdict> Don't want to preserve pointless difficulty because it's traditional, or anything like that.
22:24 <K2> in some ways its harder
22:24 <dell00> Such as...?
22:24 <hothraxxa> i think it's definitely harder for new players
22:24 <aosdict> K2: would you say... better balanced? ;)
22:25 <K2> its getting there in a lot of areas
22:26 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:42505
22:27 <dell00> Leggman seems very patient with the mysterious force.
22:27 <hothraxxa> that's probably because you can't hear him
22:27 <K2> :)
22:27 <K2> the booze helps
22:28 <hothraxxa> oh he's almost out of gehennom
22:28 <dell00> Does the mysterious force wear off when you're out of Gehennom?
22:29 <K2> once you make it back to the valley of dead, you're clear
22:29 <dell00> Ok.=
22:30 <hothraxxa> that's an odd style of play
22:31 <dell00> How is Leggman's hero rarely hungry?
22:31 <dell00> In the early game, I have to constantly feed my hero.
22:31 <dell00> I don't get it.
22:31 <K2> ring of slow digestion
22:31 <dell00> Ooohh...
22:32 <K2> thats one of the most sought after rings in the game
22:32 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:43074
22:32 <dell00> Why does the Wizard of Yendor keep showing up?
22:33 <K2> because he's evil and wants his amulet back
22:33 <dell00> Even after killing him, he reappears somewhere in the dungeon.
22:33 <dell00> Ohh...
22:34 <dell00> Leggman is extremely lucky to have the ring.
22:34 <dell00> How often does the ring appear in the dungeons?
22:34 <dell00> Nvm.
22:35 <dell00> Question: should I bug you with questions, or go to NethackWiki?
22:35 <K2> yes
22:35 <dell00> Yes to... the former or latter?
22:35 <K2> yes ;)
22:35 <K2> both
22:35 <dell00> :)
22:36 <K2> the wiki is an excellent source of info
22:36 <K2> but it cant answer everything
22:36 <dell00> I see.
22:36 <dell00> Leggman's back in the Dungeons of Doom.
22:37 <K2> yup he'll be in the planes very soon
22:39 <hothraxxa> i have a feeling he's underprepared
22:40 <dell00> There's already a chest he stashed in Dlv1.
22:40 <dell00> It's got 134 items.
22:40 <dell00> I don't think so.
22:40 <K2> 2 wands of wishing, one at 0:0 the other un ID'ed
22:41 <hothraxxa> i noticed that
22:41 <K2> and dual wielding grayswandir and a silver saber, ac lower than -30... he'll be ok 
22:41 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:43511
22:41 <K2> yeah he's good
22:41 <K2> barring anything stupid
22:42 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "amulet of magical breathing", on T:43513
22:42 <dell00> What does that item do?
22:42 <K2> you dont need air to breathe
22:42 <hothraxxa> he can swim on the plane of water
22:42 <mcw> I get tohit and damage rolls working, I break pathfinding
22:42 <K2> can also over eat without choking
22:42 <mcw> ._
22:42 <mcw> .
22:42 <hothraxxa> my favourite use
22:44 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) entered the Planes, on T:43521
22:44 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:43522
22:44 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed crystal ball", on T:43527
22:45 <hothraxxa> see that's what i mean. he fought that elemental
22:48 <dell00> Air plane's really harming him.
22:48 <K2> he needs to get unburdended
22:48 <K2> sp
22:51 <K2> plane of air is the hardest
22:51 <K2> plane of water is the most tedious
22:51 <K2> and can be the hardest if you're not prepared
22:51 <K2> although my very last game, i got lucky on PoW
22:52 <hothraxxa> how so?
22:52 <K2> portal was relatively close and the bubbles floated me right to it basically
22:52 <hothraxxa> ah
22:52 <hothraxxa> i hate the plane of water
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22:52 <K2> the only variant where plane of water really concerns me is grunthack
22:52 <hothraxxa> half the time i just drop a scroll of scare monster and wait until the portal drifts by
22:52 <hothraxxa> yes, engulfing water elementals, eek
22:54 <hothraxxa> he doesn't appear to know about confused gold detection
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22:54 <K2> he's been using a crystal ball
22:54 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "cursed scroll of gold detection", on T:43876
22:54 <K2> oh damn
22:54 <hothraxxa> i know, i wouldn't do that
22:54 <hothraxxa> well he sort of knows :(
22:55 <hothraxxa> he's got magic markers
22:55 <hothraxxa> or did have
22:55 <dell00> OH!
22:55 <dell00> A mail demon arrived!
22:55 <dell00> So rare!
22:56 <K2> lol
22:57 <hothraxxa> yeah no oilskin
22:58 <K2> huh
22:58 <hothraxxa> you have got to be kidding
22:58 <K2> well... that will work....
22:59 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "wand of secret door detection", on T:43983
22:59 <hothraxxa> i have never ever wrested a wand that fast
22:59 <mcw> hothraxxa: I hear that a lot. :(
23:00 <K2> oh geez
23:01 <K2> he didnt know to charge his wand of wishing
23:01 <K2> he was wishing for ? of charging earlier
23:04 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "cursed scroll of gold detection", on T:44255
23:05 <K2> at this point he needs to wear the amulet
23:06 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:44372
23:06 <hothraxxa> there should be a mercy function 
23:07 <dell00> It appears to be extremely hard to find a portal in the water plane.
23:07 <dell00> *grimaces*
23:08 <hothraxxa> he would have been much better off just wiating in a bubble
23:08 <K2> \o/
23:08 <hothraxxa> yay
23:08 <dell00> Yep.
23:09 <dell00> He's in the Astral Plane.
23:09 <dell00> The ENDGAME!
23:09 <hothraxxa> firstaltarfirstaltarfirstaltarfirstaltarfirstaltarfirstaltarfirstaltar
23:09 <dell00> Noooo...
23:09 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Pestilence, on T:44524
23:09 <dell00> He's dying... :(
23:09 <dell00> Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
23:09 <dell00> OH!
23:09 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [fh] MTF (mtf) (Cav Hum Mal Neu), 20720 points, T:889, killed by a gnome lady, while sleeping, in explore mode
23:10 <hothraxxa> he doesn't know that wand of death kills pesty
23:10 <dell00> Does it permanently kill pesty?
23:10 <K2> all his healing potions gone from plane of water
23:10 <K2> no
23:12 <mcw> Wooooooo, https://www.tubhack.com/ttyrecs/tubhack.mhitu2.ttyrec.html tubhack becomes actually dangerous :o
23:12 <K2> hah i bet this is the grand tour
23:13 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Pestilence, on T:44574
23:16 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) killed Famine, on T:44631
23:16 <K2> hah
23:16 <hothraxxa> whew
23:17 <hothraxxa> that was painful to watch
23:17 <K2> yup
23:17 <hothraxxa> just inexperience
23:17 <K2> now i can go to bed
23:17 <dell00> He won!
23:17 <dell00> At least.
23:17 <K2> yes!
23:17 <hothraxxa> yes but he made it hard
23:17 <dell00> He did?
23:17 <Beholder_> [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law), 3411794 points, T:44647, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Leggman/nhdev/dumplog/1522278882.nhdev.txt
23:18 <K2> !asc Leggman
23:18 <Beholder_> K2: Leggman has ascended 1 times in 13 games (7.69%):  nd:1 (8.33%)
23:18 <hothraxxa> for example, if he'd needed a scroll or potion in his bag, he was out of luck
23:18 <K2> oh wow, his first ever on hdf
23:18 <hothraxxa> https://scoreboard.xd.cm/players/L/Leggman.nh.html
23:18 <hothraxxa> second ever
23:19 <mcw> Yay :)
23:19 <hothraxxa> actually he'd doing well for the number of games played
23:19 <mcw> gratz to leggman,w herever he is.
23:19 <mcw> !asc tubs
23:19 <Beholder_> mcw: No games for tubs.
23:19 <K2> ahhhh
23:19 <K2> the tribute tourney
23:19 <mcw> err
23:19 <mcw> !stats tubs
23:19 <mcw> Ah well, my % is going to be... small.
23:19 <K2> mine isnt so high
23:20 <K2> percentage wise
23:20 <K2> !asc k2
23:20 <Beholder_> K2: k2 has ascended 32 times in 1192 games (2.68%):  nh:1 (1.54%), sp:1 (0.31%), nd:2 (5.88%), nh4:3 (7.14%), dyn:1 (9.09%), un:5 (3.82%), 4k:1 (2.38%), fh:1 (6.67%), xnh:8 (17.39%), gh:9 (2.16%)
23:20 <hothraxxa> !asc
23:20 <Beholder_> hothraxxa: hothraxxa has ascended 15 times in 130 games (11.54%):  nh:2 (16.67%), nh4:3 (42.86%), dyn:2 (5.88%), fh:3 (17.65%), xnh:4 (30.77%), gh:1 (2.86%)
23:20 <dell00> !asc
23:20 <Beholder_> dell00: No games for dell00.
23:20 <dell00> :(
23:20 <mcw> K2: is there a way to see how many games I've played wihtout having ascended?
23:20 <dell00> I played games on this server.
23:20 <hothraxxa> wow my gh % went through the floor
23:20 <K2> mind you this is just on hdf servers, not overall everywhere
23:21 <dell00> I've played like three games on the hdf server.
23:21 <mcw> dell00: I have played a lot here too, but it may not show any stats until at least one ascension.
23:21 <hothraxxa> tubs: use mandevil's scoreboard
23:21 <mcw> hothraxxa: aosdict no dnh? :o
23:21 <K2> mcw via beholder now, however
23:21 <K2> *no
23:21 <mcw> K2: np! 
23:22 <mcw> hothraxxa: can you re-paste that link?
23:22 <hothraxxa> which one?
23:22 <mcw> the Mandevil scoreboard
23:22 <hothraxxa> https://scoreboard.xd.cm/
23:22 <mcw> Cheers
23:23 <hothraxxa> i don't know how to navigate directly to a player without hacking the url
23:23 <K2> what variants do you play and you play as tubs right?
23:24 <K2> !lastgame tubs
23:24 <Beholder_> K2: [hdf-us] No last game for tubs on this server.
23:24 <Beholder_> K2: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/t/tubs/dnethack/dumplog/1523806052.dnh.txt
23:24 <K2> oooh
23:24 <K2> yeah eu server
23:24 <K2> hdf scoreboard doesnt track eu server yet
23:24 <hothraxxa> https://scoreboard.xd.cm/players/t/tubs.all.html
23:25 <mcw> Oh no now you can see my awful "start scumming", I just wanted to play drow binder starting with amon ;_;
23:25 <hothraxxa> i don't judge anyone on their stats
23:25 <aosdict> mcw: no dnh, yes? why is this significant
23:26 <mcw> aosdict: Sorry, I mwant to type K2 and just brain-farted. :x
23:26 <mcw> https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/t/tubs/dnethack/dumplog/1523563846.dnh.txt fuck you chris and your wanky Ks
23:26 <hothraxxa> bwahahahaha https://scoreboard.xd.cm/players/h/hothraxxa.dnh.html
23:27 <dell00> mcw: was Leggman you?
23:27 <mcw> dell00: no :)
23:27 <dell00> Hm...
23:27 <mcw> I've never ascended on a public server.
23:27 <aosdict> !asc
23:27 <Beholder_> aosdict: aosdict has ascended 2 times in 24 games (8.33%):  nd:1 (14.29%), gh:1 (11.11%)
23:27 <dell00> I've never ascended at all mcw.
23:27 <mcw> hothraxxa: "killed by touching Excalibur" whut
23:28 <aosdict> mwahahaha fear the lack of dnh in my stats
23:28 <aosdict> !asc aosdictj
23:28 <Beholder_> aosdict: aosdictj has ascended 2 times in 22 games (9.09%):  nh4:1 (100.00%), un:1 (50.00%)
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23:28 <mcw> dell00: one day :)
23:28 -!- Schrubber1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
23:28 <hothraxxa> mcw: it was during junethack
23:29 <mcw> hothraxxa:  did you bust your alignment, or are the rules different then?
23:30 <hothraxxa> i don't recall how i did it, but it was deliberate
23:30 <hothraxxa> hoa probably
23:30 <K2> off to bed, gnite all
23:31 <mcw> nn K2  :)
23:31 <hothraxxa> good evening to you sir
23:31 <mcw> Oh god, decided to try some nh3.6...
23:31 <mcw> The little dog steps reluctantly over 9 stones.
23:31 <mcw>                                           The little dog is hit by a rock!  The little dog is killed!
23:31 <mcw> :-\
23:36 <dell00> What key do I press to cast a spell?
23:36 <mcw> Shift+Z
23:43 -!- dell00 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1]
23:51 <mcw> And now I nap, nn all