00:07 -!- isha has left #hardfought 00:11 [hdf-us] [4k] deadbeef (kek) (Mon Hum Mal Law) killed the ghost of Losesalot, the former Rogue, on T:2236 00:16 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 00:25 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 00:25 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 00:26 Grasshopper: how come you're on IRC when out looking at sunrises 00:26 aosdict> I asked him this 00:26 FIQ> not even I do that, and people like to complain about me being on internet too much when out lol 00:26 Wow, sorry to make you folks jealous 00:28 will promise to talk about something very boring next time 00:28 [hdf-us] [slex] asdfjkl (Bar Cur Fem Law), 986 points, T:972, killed by a shotgun shell 00:28 sorry was too busy doing other things to respond earlier lol 00:36 -!- grumlin has joined #hardfought 00:37 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 00:46 -!- grumlin has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:36 -!- MysteryMyra has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:45 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:49 . 01:49 LarienTelrunya: Message from FIQ at 2018-04-11 18:18 EDT: given how unstable 2.1.7 apparently is/was, is it really a good idea to push a 2.2.0 before junethack? 01:49 LarienTelrunya: Message from FIQ at 2018-04-11 18:18 EDT: sounds like asking for trouble... 01:51 !tell FIQ you're playing devil's advocate :P the astral plane crash has been there for a long time actually but is fixed now! 2.2.0 *must* come, I'm sick of that old 2.1.7 that lacks all of the features that make 2.2.0 good, and if I can push it out the door next week then there's plenty of time for bug hunting until junethack 01:51 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:04 -!- irina|log has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08 YANI: soldiers will eat their K and C rations when low on health, and get healed when they do. But the real reason for making such a change would be to reduce the amount of food the player gets :D 02:11 jonadab: why would I waste a whopping 100 weight units (stuff weigh way too much) for a tinning kit when I could just be eating those giant corpses with an amulet of magical breathing that weighs a lot less? :P 02:15 tinning is quicker and has other uses too 02:17 yeah but even with max carry capacity (gauntlets of power and 18 CON) it takes up fully 10% of your cap for that one item :( 02:18 yeah, I always dump mine once I've got max STR and maybe 1 or 2 tins of chameleon meat or whatever else I want 02:37 -!- DrakeMarshall has joined #hardfought 02:48 <@Khor> So, what's this xNetHack about? 02:54 [hdf-us] [nd] winny (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 2725 points, T:4099, killed by a white unicorn 02:56 Khor: It's a variant of Nethack 3.6.1, the only one I think (AFAIK all the other ones are based either on 3.4.3, or on other 3.4.3 variants) 02:56 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/XNetHack 02:59 [hdf-us] [nd] winny (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 104 points, T:630, killed by a small mimic 03:08 LarienTelrunya: What's proper captialization of Slash'EM Extended? 03:09 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 03:09 for regular SLASH'EM it would be SLASH'EM, so I guess it should be SLASH'EM Extended 03:09 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 03:09 are you adding it to the scoreboard, now that there's an ascension on the hdf server? ;) 03:09 I am going to shorten it into SLASH'EM Ex for the purpose of NHS. 03:10 Yes, I am exploring the necessary changes I need to implement. 03:11 well, thankfully Tariru ascended a role that exists in vanilla NetHack, so it's probably not necessary (yet) to add columns for all the new roles 03:11 however, the race is a non-vanilla one 03:11 It's not that simple. 03:20 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 03:20 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 03:21 <@Khor> Pings don't work from irc to discord RIP 03:21 <@Khor> Maybe if you wrote @Khor 03:21 <@Khor> with the #2905 behind 03:22 @Khor test, does this message ping you? 03:22 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:26 [hdf-us] [nd] hilliance (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:39949 03:27 <@Khor> Yup, that did 03:27 -!- hpardis has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:27 <@Khor> Gz, you unlocked the skill of putting red numbers in my discord 03:27 :) 03:28 using crystal ball "^" should be able to locate vibrating square, right? 03:29 <@Khor> Depending on what variant you're playing 03:30 does it work in dnethack? 03:31 'cause getting confused to use gold detect scroll would be inconvenient atm 03:32 does the bot have `@everyone` perms? *hopes that it doesn't ping* 03:32 <@Khor> Omg it has been so long since I played seriously that I actually forgot about pretty much everything 03:32 <@Khor> It didn't ping 03:32 <@Metruption> yep 03:33 LarienTelrunya: Can you point me to SLEX conducts definition (ie. the contents of the conducts bitmap in xlogfile)? 03:33 Mandevil: encodeconduct() in topten.c, I'll get a link 03:34 https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SLASHEM-Extended/SLASHEM-Extended/master/src/topten.c 03:34 Thanks 03:34 "u.uconduct.praydone" is the one that tracks how many times you have prayed (not present in other variants) 03:35 The only special is "praydone"? 03:35 Ah. 03:35 So prayerless. 03:35 yeah, as a weaker form of atheist conduct 03:35 Understood. 03:35 and also because I wanted the game to track the exact number of times you pray, which is reported in the dumplog :) 03:38 or can you only locate the vibrating square until after you've taken the book of the dead? 03:39 DrakeMarshall: no. 03:39 DrakeMarshall: You can find it any time. 03:39 'cause I'm pretty sure I've covered nearly every tile on this level and I'm not seeing any vibrating squares 03:39 DrakeMarshall: You've missed it. 03:39 DrakeMarshall: That happens. 03:39 DrakeMarshall: If you are really desperate, you can mark covered tiles by dropping a piece of gold. 03:39 "gold plating" :) 03:40 DrakeMarshall: Also in 3.6.0 the VS is a trap so can be found with confused gold detection. 03:41 EPI: if you step on the vibrating square, it only has a 1 in 5 chance to give "There is a strange vibration underneath your feet", and (as long as you never got the strange vibration message yet) a separate 1 in 3 chance to relocate to a random other tile without giving a message that it did. 03:42 Super Mega EPI: whenever you move on the vibrating square level, there is a 1 in 1000 chance that the game displays "There is a strange vibration underneath your feet" even when you didn't actually step on the vibrating square. :P 03:42 Aha I found it 03:43 That took a while XD 03:43 Alright well thanks 03:44 DrakeMarshall: do you know about the elder priest? 03:45 <@Khor> That priest is ridiculous 03:45 <@Khor> I still have ptsd with him 03:45 @Khor: yeah me too!!! I don't want to spoil DrakeMarshall but he's by far the most dangerous monster in the entire game and will **** you up unless you know what you're doing. 03:46 <@Khor> I don't remember how I used to beat him 03:46 Yet, I still buffed him in DNHslex. 03:46 <@Khor> actually I think he was buffed a lot close to when I stopped playing 03:46 <@Khor> I don't know if I want to ask about DNHslex 03:47 it's a joke variant of dnethack I created ;) 03:48 however, the elder priest is plenty powerful enough to mop the floor with a character in a full ascension kit even in regular dnethack (happened to me last junethack) 03:52 [hdf-us] [dnh] DrakeMarshall (Bin Clk Mal Non) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:219844 03:52 !lotg DrakeMarshall 03:52 May the Luck of the Grasshopper be with you always, DrakeMarshall! 03:53 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:00 [hdf-us] [dnh] DrakeMarshall (Bin Clk Mal Non), 6205763 points, T:220112, quit 04:00 @Khor priest is easy 04:00 FIQ: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-04-12 01:51 EDT: you're playing devil's advocate :P the astral plane crash has been there for a long time actually but is fixed now! 2.2.0 *must* come, I'm sick of that old 2.1.7 that lacks all of the features that make 2.2.0 good, and if I can push it out the door next week then there's plenty of time for bug hunting until junethack 04:00 just use free action 04:00 or beat him ranged 04:01 RIP I meant to exit not quit 04:01 oh whatever 04:01 lol 04:01 DrakeMarshall: been there done that 04:01 also hi 04:01 LarienTelrunya: I am not playing devil's advocate 04:01 what??? doesn't dnethack require a full "yes" to quit? 04:01 Devil's advocate means I am trying to argue against something I am for to give a fair objective view 04:01 However, I don't care either way 04:02 LarienTelrunya: You can enable paranoid_quit yes 04:02 LarienTelrunya: my issue isn't with the astral crash 04:02 but with broken recover 04:02 basically 04:02 your game is unstable 04:02 -!- DrakeMarshall has quit [Quit: *poof*] 04:02 you need to address issues 04:02 ... recover isn't broken, it works in every test environment I have 04:03 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:03 and not release a new version which might have even more issues 04:03 LarienTelrunya: it is clearly broken 04:03 Tariru got a crash on astral 04:03 fair enough 04:03 we'll just recover the game 04:03 except that recover doesn't work! 04:04 well I did patch the recover.c code that didn't account for the existence of more than 256 levels (that was probably what caused Tariru to get the weird trickery thing after recovery) 04:04 apparently tubs was able to reproduce the recovery brokenness? 04:05 I urge you strongly to confirm that recover isn't broken on hdf until you allow slex to be part of junethack 04:05 unless you want to go the route of slth 04:05 and be removed midway through due to saving issues 04:05 well, how am I supposed to "confirm that recover isn't broken on hdf"? I can't deliberately crash the game anymore, so it's hard to even produce a game that needs recovery, much less one on the planes 04:06 you'll have to talk to K2 about it 04:06 he should be able to kill your process while playing 04:06 to test recovery 04:06 both in general, but especially when there's >255 levels in the game 04:07 ah, I guess that would work, but it again requires that the char in question has actually visited at least one level with index >255 04:07 yes 04:07 how you solve that is up to you 04:07 wonderland comes to mind 04:08 or one of the lostsoul modes 04:08 doing so will be easier in 2.2.0 because the elder priest level in wonderland mode is index 354 there (it's below 256 in 2.1.7) 04:08 good luck! 04:08 heh, thanks I guess 04:08 you can change the order of the branches 04:09 in the dungeon struct 04:09 without any effect beyond moving ledger numbers around 04:09 shouldn't be necessary, wonderland mode will be good enough in 2.2.0 04:10 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 04:10 the poin twas to ensure things are working *before* pushing new major versions with new bugs 04:10 *point 04:12 well I don't know what to tell you, I do ensure they're working locally, but how am I supposed to test a new version on the server when that new version isn't actually on a server yet? 04:12 <@Khor> Some characters are really not good at ranged tho 04:12 [hdf-us] [nd] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law), 32466 points, T:14468, killed by an ogre lord 04:13 @Khor addressed since you played 04:13 all roles have ranged options to deal with the priest now 04:13 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:13 <@Khor> nice 04:14 <@Khor> Not that I would reach anywhere close to the priest if I played now 😅 04:14 heh 04:14 did you ever ascend fh 04:14 I recall you dying in the priest quest or something once 04:14 bullwhip shenanigans 04:14 ah apparently you did 04:14 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/K/Khor/fiqhack/dumplog/2017-10-25%2015%3A29%3A55%2C%20Khor-Pri-Hum-Mal-Law%2C%20ascended.txt 04:15 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:28 <@Khor> Yeah I did ascend 04:28 <@Khor> I had some issues tho 04:28 <@Khor> something about dragons disintegrating half my items in 1 turn or something like that 04:31 My ascension of fh had some issues too 04:31 Most of them my fault 04:31 @Khor they can't do that 04:32 actually maybe you played before I nerfed disint 04:33 <@Khor> Maybe I'm misremembering 04:34 <@Khor> I really like the change chris did to disint 04:34 fh has identical changes now 04:34 totally not taken from dnh 04:34 * LarienTelrunya mutters something about elder black dragons in Nethack Fourk. 04:35 You're thinking of ancient dragosn 04:35 *dragons 04:36 nope, it was an elder black dragon, they also have the melee "lol your resistance doesn't work" attack 04:36 hmm really 04:36 pretty sure they don't 04:36 let me check 04:37 yes; at least jonadab made them impossible to be picked as random monster polymorphs after I complained 04:37 hmm yeah they do 04:37 hmm 04:38 I think an ancient black dragon would make for a good pet in astral 04:41 -!- [Demo]1 has joined #hardfought 04:41 -!- [Demo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:23 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1] 05:24 hmm 05:24 I think lawfuls with OA can always ascend on their first altar 05:24 actually 05:24 chaotics too maybe? 05:24 let me see 05:25 ah wait no 05:25 too bad 05:30 "In return for thy service, I grant thee the gift of Immortality!" ... aren't angels immortal to begin with? 05:34 well, the game still says "You kill the Angel of Moloch!" :D 05:34 also, Moloch is evil, why does he have angels in the first place 05:34 You can kill them, but they don't die naturally. 05:34 LarienTelrunya: fallen angels? 05:35 heh, I guess that would make sense 05:38 <@Khor> Can I port this " https://ascension.run/userdata/Khor/dnethack/dnethackrc " to hardfought somehow? 05:39 <@Khor> I tried pasting it on the console 05:39 <@Khor> but I don't think it worked too well 05:41 <@Khor> Nope, I don't think line jumps are working 05:43 @Khor press alt+l first 05:44 <@Khor> Oh, the web editor worked 05:44 <@Khor> yay 05:44 to disable automatic linebreaks 05:44 that works too, yeah 05:44 <@Khor> There isnt a way to see the damage a weapon does ingame is there? 05:45 FIQ: omg that changes everything, I used to constantly have that problem with nano and always put the linebreaks back in manually, which was a pain for long config files 05:45 not outside xnethack 05:45 LarienTelrunya: I had that issue too 05:45 <@Khor> Thats a shame 05:45 that's why I looked up how to get around it 05:45 : 05:45 p 05:45 *:p 05:45 many thanks! 05:45 I'll use that method from now on :) 05:46 @Khor: doesn't dnethack have shopkeeper services? if they work like they do in slashem, "appraisal" (often found on weapon shops) should give the damage numbers of weapons 05:46 appraisal never worked in regular slash'em 05:46 wtf 05:46 dnh took that version of it, and just removed appraisal entirely 05:47 as a result 05:47 ... seriously, WTF, how did it not work? I mean, it works in slex, and I don't remember having to make it work... 05:48 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Shopkeeper_services#Appraisal 05:48 double checked 05:48 seems like there's no comment about it being broken in wiki 05:49 not sure where I got that from 05:49 perhaps reading the source? idk 05:49 <@Khor> Yeah dnh has shop services 05:49 <@Khor> they are handy 05:54 LarienTelrunya: How many roles/races/genders/alignments are there in SLEX? 05:54 LarienTelrunya: And are all combinations allowed or are there some limits? 05:54 2 genders and 3 alignments, but lots of roles and races; all combos are allowed 05:54 Can you tell me how many races and roles? 05:54 yes, one moment 05:55 123 roles 05:56 166 races 05:56 (hopefully I didn't miscount) 05:56 122508 possible combinations. 05:56 <@Khor> Someone call stth 05:56 <@Khor> Wait, was that his name 05:56 yes 05:57 <@Khor> The guy who did all the race role sex combinations 05:57 Mandevil: LarienTelrunya adds several roles and races each version btw 05:57 keep that in mind 05:57 I get that. 05:58 Anyway, I will probably not implement the First To Ascend page for SLEX at the moment. 05:58 And not sure what to do about z-scores. 05:59 https://www.hardfought.org/nethack/slex-zscores/ :D 05:59 Mandevil: there will undoubtly not be many slex ascensions 05:59 you could perhaps just list the applicable z-scores when they're more than 0 06:00 cue Tariru doing a 62-streak in slex :P 06:00 anyway, time to eat, so I'll be afk 06:00 LarienTelrunya: That's only in the canonic roles. 06:01 FIQ: Yes, but that's actually quite some work. 06:01 LarienTelrunya: Tariru took a month to ascend slex 06:01 <@Khor> Oh hey, I'm in the first to ascend page 06:01 <@Khor> ❤ 06:01 62 ascensions would take over 5 years 06:02 Mandevil: perhaps just list total z-score then? 06:02 FIQ: Yeah, still means some special casing, but probably the simplest way. 06:02 <[Demo]1> why did he go for a rogue? 06:02 Bat from Hell I guess 06:03 Rogue is the easiest role in SLASH'EM afaik 06:04 <[Demo]1> fuck no 06:04 <[Demo]1> monk 06:04 I played slex monk doppelganger at one point 06:04 before they were nerfed 06:05 <[Demo]1> i think slashem removes projectile backstab on rogue? 06:06 <[Demo]1> vanilla monk is gnarly strong 06:06 <[Demo]1> amy removed two wep training for it though which is dumb 06:08 Oh god someone has been hitting demo with a rusty knife. 06:08 He's splitting 06:09 yeah oh well 06:09 <[Demo]1> actually rogue can train firearm to expert which might be the best option in slex idk 06:10 Tariru did use firearms 06:10 a lot 06:11 +7 blessed heavy machine gun :) 06:11 <[Demo]1> artifact one 06:11 <[Demo]1> the thing is it seems to me it would make sense to go for a role that can rapidly generate bullets 06:11 <[Demo]1> and use primarily firearms 06:12 Tariru's asc was basically wishless 06:12 he only used a single wish, and never used the item 06:12 (well he did, but in vain, due to him not understanding how it worked) 06:13 How did he avoid dying to one of the thousands bullshit unavoidable deaths lurking everywhere? 06:13 Ask him 06:13 Luck, I guess 06:13 reflection isn't foolproof with disint 06:14 monsters can read destroy armor to ruin your stuff 06:14 nastytraps can do nastytrap stuff 06:14 <[Demo]1> you cant get lucky enough to win slex based on luck 06:14 etc 06:14 <[Demo]1> there are too many rolls 06:18 So what's the trick? 06:19 slex does not have the RNG abuse prevention patches 06:20 <[Demo]1> im going to look into this 06:21 [Demo]1: I think it's legitimate... 06:21 FIQ: Are you serious? 06:21 <@Khor> Arent the rolls more about how much they will fuck with you instead of if they will be good or bad? 06:21 Mandevil: Yes, I am serious in that I think the asc is fully legitimate 06:21 I am only mentioning this because I want LarienTelrunya to fix this 06:21 <[Demo]1> I think he's just a freak of nature 06:22 <[Demo]1> but there are some things that I'm curious about 06:22 And maybe if I mention it a couple of times, she will :p 06:22 It is a real issue that needs to be addressed before jnh 06:22 IMO 06:22 <[Demo]1> nobody that was lazy enough to work out a way to cheat a slex win would ever spend a month actually doing it 06:22 But I am not going to claim any ascs to be void due to it 06:22 [Demo]1: Right. They'd just take a few days 06:23 FIQ: Was Tariru abusing RNG? 06:23 Mandevil: I highly doubt it 06:23 I saw him play 06:23 He was just careful 06:23 So what was the trick? 06:23 As usual 06:23 When pure luck is unlikely? 06:23 Skill? 06:23 Have you seen Tariru play? 06:23 He plays *really carefully* 06:23 even in vanilla 06:23 which is how he got a 62-streak 06:23 But that would mean that SLEX is legitimate variant? 06:24 <@Khor> BLASPHEMY 06:24 If you can actually ascend it. 06:24 Mandevil: Yes, slex can be won, if you play really carefully and slowly 06:24 Takes forever though 06:24 and LarienTelrunya's philosophy is that no game should be 100% winnable 06:24 I expect her to make the neccessary adjustments after this win 06:25 <[Demo]1> all I know is you can't just get lucky and happen to win slex 06:25 Mandevil: slex has tons of bs stuff, but due to the sheer size of it, you can bounce back eventually 06:25 <[Demo]1> You'd have to be really fucking good 06:25 as long as you're careful 06:25 <[Demo]1> like 62 streak in vanilla good 06:25 I don't really think it's a *hard* game per se 06:25 just really annoying to play 06:25 <[Demo]1> it's hard if ur super impatient like me 06:26 hell I can grow tired over dnh's size sometimes 06:26 slex is like 5x that 06:26 if not more 06:26 and the yendorian tower is an awfully tedious concept 06:26 <[Demo]1> Yeah but dnh isn't dangerous like slex is 06:26 <[Demo]1> like you get op enough to blaze through those levels quickly 06:26 it's basically like if you're hunting down vlad 06:26 after using a levelporter 06:27 except you have to do it 3 times 06:27 OK, so z-score display works by sending the WHOLE FUCKING Z-SCORE STRUCTURE into every template. 06:27 [Demo]1: I got to slex castle on first serious try in junethack 2016 06:27 Even if I only need one player, the whole thing is sent along. 06:27 Damn. 06:27 It has a ton of ridiculous roles 06:28 that have OP abilities 06:28 but some silly drawbacks 06:28 what I am saying is 06:28 I don't think slex is hard to win 06:28 Just that it's really tedious to win 06:28 <[Demo]1> I might have made it that far last year if I hadn't got bored and offed myself 06:28 I suicided after getting to castle and there not being a wand there 06:28 <[Demo]1> fair 06:29 FIQ: How come? 06:29 FIQ: Some nastiness? 06:29 Mandevil: Because I didn't find slex fun to play? 06:29 Oh. The wand just wasn't there 06:29 No idea why 06:29 It was some weird castle variant 06:29 <[Demo]1> death in slex is winning slex 06:29 After clearing out the entire level 06:29 a bunch of object detection 06:29 I could conclude that it wasn't there 06:29 <[Demo]1> cause then you aren't stuck in the tedium 06:29 either something destroyed it 06:29 or something else 06:31 Mandevil: I've suggested to bhaak, allthough I don't think he cares, that multivariant trophies should only count ascended variants in the tournament 06:31 Because slex' current dungeon is large enough that it takes forever to win 06:31 Tariru, who can win vanilla in under a day, took a month to ascend slex 06:32 Variants that have an ascensions IN the tournament? 06:32 Mandevil: yes 06:32 That sounds like a very clever rule. 06:32 I am all for it. 06:32 <[Demo]1> he could have done it faster if we was less careful 06:32 [Demo]1: then he'd just die 06:33 Mandevil: It's an objective rule, which was the goal 06:33 that way you don't have to be awkward and exclude specific variants 06:33 There's the added bonus that if you can win the oddball variant, you might end up taking that king of the hill trophy from someone. 06:34 Which is nifty. 06:37 <@Khor> My autopickup is doing weird things 06:37 <@Khor> :c 06:38 <@Khor> Maybe it's because Ic hanged the file during a game 06:38 yeah it doesn't carryover into existing games 06:38 the config that is 06:39 <@Khor> RIP 06:39 <@Khor> wasnt #annotate a thing 06:39 yes 06:40 <@Khor> where I could add a message to the level in the overview list 06:40 yes 06:40 <@Khor> oh 06:40 it's still a thing 06:40 <@Khor> I was typing annotation 06:40 <@Khor> not annotate 06:40 <@Khor> 🤦 06:40 silly khoR 06:41 <@Khor> Some things never change 06:41 <@Khor> what can I say 06:41 !who 06:41 FIQ: [hdf-us] hilliance [nd] Khor [dnh] 06:41 FIQ: [hdf-eu] No current players 06:41 !whereis Khor 06:41 FIQ: [hdf-us] Khor [dnh]: (Sam Hum Fem Law) T:551 The Dungeons of Doom level: 3 06:41 samurai eh 06:41 <@Khor> It was a random pick 06:41 I see 06:42 FIQ: one rule (although possibly an unwritten one) of junethack is that trophies have to be stable. granted trophies have never been revoked even some users would have been ineligible to get them after something was fixed. 06:43 bhaak: hmm 06:43 making king of the world depending on what variants other players have ascended would make it gameable and inconsistent 06:44 <[Demo]1> ah 06:44 you mean just like clan trophies...? 06:44 somebody starting early would have an advantage vs somebody starting later in the tournament 06:44 I don't see the difference 06:44 yes, but clan trophies are in another category 06:45 they are in the same category as e.g. "most ascensions". 06:45 hmm 06:45 <@Khor> This stupid glaive really is no Katana 06:45 what about requiring all variants over the course of the tournament 06:45 trophy is the wrong name actually, king of the world is an achievement. (i want to rename that for a while) 06:45 but as the tournament shuts down 06:45 exclude the ones that were never ascended? 06:46 or that never had anyone reach Medusa for the medusa trophies 06:46 etc 06:46 that would still violate the stability condition. but I have another idea. excluding variants or specific variant roles is fair game. 06:47 that is what I wanted to avoid 06:47 we could redefine KotW as excluding slex, while having an invisible achievement that is "KotW + slex ascension" 06:47 excluding specific variants 06:47 a super king of the world achievement 06:48 since it isn't objective 06:48 well, make different variant all fit the same pigeonhole can be problematic :) 06:48 meaning the dev can complain 06:48 but sure 06:48 if you prefer this solution 06:48 then I don't mind 06:48 well, saying "ascend every variant but one" would just exclude the most difficult one without naming it. 06:49 fair 06:49 FIQ: well DUH, how the hell am I supposed to fix the rng without even knowing how to? if every variant fixes that, FIQhack must be fixing it too, commit plz :P 06:49 <[Demo]1> do that so I can just win slex and not have to touch un 06:49