00:28 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:28 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 00:32 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 00:52 hothraxxa: (very belatedly) yes, I'm still playing xnh, and I find myself spellcasting *less* even with wizard and priest, because you tend to start out with spells you can't cast yet 00:54 hothraxxa: I haven't noticed spells are easier to learn but once you get past a certain hurdle, yes, then it's easier to cast 00:54 hothraxxa: I don't think it's too easy, making it harder would feel like Just Another Nerf 00:55 hothraxxa: like all the 00:55 "I (developer) don't like this particular thing so nobody gets it" (case in point: pudding farming) 00:59 hey, cave spiders can spin webs now! and it says so when they do! 01:09 [hdf-us] [fh] abbie (kelvin) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 31104 points, T:6429, killed by a giant mimic 01:23 -!- MiseryMyra has joined #hardfought 01:39 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 02:00 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:27 -!- deadnoob has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:37 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 02:37 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 02:56 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:04 [hdf-us] [nh4] Matti (Robin) (Mon Hum Mal Law), 6941 points, T:597, killed by a jackal 03:36 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1] 04:03 -!- MysteryMyra has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 04:42 aosdict: If you see invisible, invisible monsters are still denoted as invisible 04:44 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 04:44 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 04:46 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 04:46 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 04:52 -!- bug_sniper_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:17 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:52 -!- mcw has joined #hardfought 05:52 Bon and jour! 05:52 -!- mcw is now known as tubs 05:59 <[Demo]> so has anyone made caveman an illiterate role or tried to? 06:00 tried to, usually breaks down when I get the Sceptre of Might and want to fooproof it 06:00 Mate with my stupidity *all* my roles are illiterate. :) 06:00 I've only done one completely illiterate game and that was a valk 06:00 quest artifacts should come fooproof imho 06:01 <[Demo]> if i were to make caveman illiterate id have to add flintknapping amd mushroom gathering 06:02 [Demo]: Do you just want to make drughack? 06:02 "mushroom gathering" ;) 06:02 "vaping" 06:02 etc. 06:04 <[Demo]> well sure there would be bad mushrooms 06:04 <[Demo]> actually idk 06:04 <[Demo]> pretty sure mushrooms that would make you sense gold would be pretty bad 06:04 <[Demo]> i guess it would be pretty druggy 06:04 <[Demo]> oh well 06:05 [hdf-us] [nd] hilliance (Wiz Hum Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:16242 06:26 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:28 Heh, how come puddings don't do damage? 06:28 I accidentally make like 50 of them with my dull rusty knife 06:28 And now I can kill them for 100 million xp safely 06:34 -!- grumlin has joined #hardfought 06:35 https://i.imgur.com/vxPjLRf.png it may be getting outof hand now though... 06:39 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:03 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 07:03 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 07:07 raisse: there's a patch out for xnethack that i'll be compiling today, its supposed to give spellcasters enough power to cast their lvl 1 spells from the start 07:08 its a new version (0.1.1) so it wont affect any current games 07:11 yay! 07:15 raisse: There is one spellcasting system change in 0.1.1: skill acts as a cap instead of boosting your success% (since people didn't seem to have any trouble getting success% to reasonable levels) 07:16 it should make spellcasting harder in schools where you can't get much skill (allowing for better role balance; e.g. Barbs can't really do all that much 07:16 that's reasonable 07:17 making it harder across the board would really make me think it was Yet Another Nerf 07:21 nooo 07:21 rip barb casting 07:27 FIQ: assuming they keep their Skilled cap in attack spells, they'll still be comparatively decent at them. 07:28 Compared to, say, someone who can't get Skilled in attack. 07:28 grr, I *still* can't get used to applying boxes on the floor 07:28 apply should only work for things actually in your inventory 07:29 Did we conclude that there's no real way to satisfy everyone on that? 07:30 it was an artefact of combination menustyle, I think 07:30 and no way I'm going to stop using that 07:30 this fucks with ONE piece of muscle memory, and a different menustyle would fuck with DOZENS 07:31 but why did you make it so that you can apply someting not in your inventory? 07:31 because of how FIQ's getobj works in general, I think 07:33 Wait, actually if I just replace the call in apply_ok to floor_loot_ok, it no longer asks me for the box first. 07:34 Er, replace it with a return 0. 07:35 aosdict: it will also prevent you from looting containers from the floor with a, 07:35 which was *the entire point* of that feature 07:36 right, and this is why there's no way to satisfy everyone 07:38 raisse: apply was made able to handle floor items to simplify floor looting 07:38 <@Tone> Can you still use the loot command? 07:38 in non-full menustyle, the equivalent of "(whatever)," is "There is here, (whatever) it?" 07:38 @Tone yes 07:38 FIQ: I suppose you and raisse have incompatible philosophies - we want to be able to loot without typing #loot, vs apply should only work for in-inventory stuff 07:39 however in xnh you *can* do o. to loot 07:39 aosdict: That is inconsistent with every single other directional command 07:39 and I find that even worse 07:39 I added it in FIQHack *only* because 3.6.1 did, and I didn't want to fuck with people's muscle memory 07:39 How is that inconsistent? 07:39 but I don't like it 07:40 aosdict: It is a directional command, and you are basically giving it an object 07:40 also you have me to blame for 3.6.1 getting it 07:40 <@Tone> What is the issue with using apply as well? Does it cause an extra prompt if you are standing on a container? 07:40 I don't have you to blame. You came up with the idea. I didn't like it back then so I ignored it. You didn't merge it into 3.6.1 07:40 @Tone the problem is that for people with menustyle non-full 07:40 which uses the "traditional" prompts for floor items/features 07:40 you get a new prompt 07:41 consider eating 07:41 or dipping vs fountains 07:42 in NH3 besides SLASH'EM, you get a "There is x here, dip it/eat it?" 07:42 <@Tone> If you aren't standing on a container, is there any difference? 07:42 FIQ: I see o. as "open your current space", which arguably should maybe do something like trigger a trapdoor you're standing over, but I don't think the jump to "open something on the given space" is bad. 07:42 Actually, "open something on the given space" is wholly consistent 07:42 aosdict: o. means "open yourself" 07:42 what you're saying would be for o> 07:42 @tone anyway 07:42 FIQ: so if it were changed to o> would you say that is consistent? 07:43 with getobj, you instead get , (or alternatively . to allow SLASH'EM players to preserve muscle memory) 07:43 as an alternative in the general object list 07:43 for example 07:43 "What do you want to eat? [, d-f]" 07:43 as part of this 07:43 I made it possible to apply containers on the floor 07:43 to simplify looting 07:44 however, since new-style does the above, and old-style acts like the old prompts 07:44 this means that for those people, there is a new "There is a large box here, apply it?" prompt 07:44 when applicable 07:44 If you aren't standing on a container 07:44 things are no different than before 07:44 <@Tone> Ah 07:45 <@Tone> Seems like a pretty specific circumstance but I guess I'd have to try it 07:45 aosdict: For trap doors, definitely. For containers, not sure. I think it does make more sense, but it still feels wrong to me 07:45 -!- grumlin has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:45 @Tone raisse's issue stems from lack of autounlock 07:45 so the issue with raisse is that she now has to spend a keystroke she isn't used to to click past a box she isn't interested in looting 07:45 basically whenever a container is locked 07:45 and she wants to unlock it 07:46 she first needs to dismiss the "apply the container here?" prompt 07:46 well, usually I *am* interested in looting it, but if I know it's locked my first impulse is to use the key 07:46 because it will just say that is' locked and be done there 07:46 <@Tone> Ah I see 07:46 I don't feel I'm "using" the box, because it's not in my inventory 07:46 raisse: my point is, this is like 95%+ of the cases where you apply stuff when standing on a container 07:46 <@Tone> Yeah that does sound a little clunky 07:47 so if there was autounlock 07:47 Oh right, I forgot about the demand for autounlock. 07:47 yes, I also have to click past the box prompt when I want to grease something or whistle for the cat 07:47 everything should be OK 07:47 no? 07:47 probably yes 07:47 raisse: Sure, if you happen to stand on a container 07:47 But that's not very common 07:47 unless unlocking 07:48 what's the problem with typing #l? 07:49 in 3.6.1 you have to type #lo 07:49 it's not the absolute number of keystrokes, it's the visualisation 07:49 Being like 3 times the keystrokes? 07:49 I find it annoying, that's for sure 07:49 Also it asks for a direction 07:49 apply is strictly things in my inventory for me 07:49 not things on the floor 07:50 it doesn't ask whether I want to use the can of grease or the whistle or the stethoscope on the floor when I'm standing on my stash, either 07:51 that's because the only applyable-on-floor objects are boxes 07:51 well, containers 07:52 applying bag of tricks on the floor will bite you 07:52 just saying 07:52 so does looting 07:53 that is what a, *is* 07:53 is this a ploy to make xnethack more like fiq 07:53 ? 07:54 because, well, I don't think that's necessary 07:54 I am not a xnh dev 07:54 *an 07:54 then why is it done your way? 07:54 It didn't originate in FIQHack, you know that, right? 07:54 but NH4 07:55 It is done to prevent typos 07:55 With menustyle full, 'y' will always mean inventory letter y 07:55 never food on the floor 07:55 raisse: insofar as UI enhancements go, I... think you are in the minority there. 07:55 That is the entire point 07:55 FIQ: in fact I didn't know, I've mostly steered clear of variants precisely because what other people find convenient fucks majorly with my muscle memory 07:55 Most people would love for the xnh interface to be more like fiqhack. 07:56 raisse: You know, I added menustyle behaviour *precisely* for people like you 07:56 and I'd probably go back to 3.6.1 or something 07:56 who don't want their muscle memory being fucked with 07:56 if the interface became more like fiqhack 07:56 I suppose the apply change can be undone if aosdict prefers o> for quicker loot 07:57 But eh, I don't like it :P 07:57 I suppose we could do a hack to apply_ok that only allows lootables to be applied on the floor if menustyle is full... 07:57 aosdict: You know, like half of the reason I refactored getobj when I changed the behaviour was *to avoid the million special cases it had* 07:57 :P 07:58 But I suppose that since 3.6.1, and xnh, already has an established way to loot floor containers easier 07:58 there is less pressure to add new apply mechanics, which themselves are inconsistent (+raisse │ it doesn't ask whether I want to use the can of grease or the whistle or the stethoscope on the floor when I'm standing on my stash, either) 07:59 aosdict: what I am saying is, I think it's better to simply undo the floor looting feature than adding a hack 07:59 it wouldn't disturb me if a, applied a thing beneath my feet as long as I could also loot a box with #loot or unlock it with q. 07:59 (or even q, which would be easy(ish) to gte used to 07:59 ) 07:59 raisse: Yes, but that would also change all other similar prompts 07:59 such as eat 07:59 quaff 08:00 dip 08:00 you can't now quaff something on the floor, can you? 08:00 hmm actually that's all of them 08:00 You can quaff fontains 08:00 *fountains 08:00 eating from the floor is useful for heavy corpses 08:00 oh right, and sinks 08:00 right 08:00 raisse: The reason I bundled this with menustyle 08:00 is that I didn't want to add Yet Another Option 08:01 NH3 already has a bunch of redundant ones as-is 08:01 why is it so important to have apply use the same mechanic so boxes get confusingly included? 08:01 I mean, why can't we just have an apply that's only for things you're actually carrying? 08:01 raisse: This was before o> even was a thing 08:01 If I had designed getobj today 08:01 I didn't even know about o> 08:01 where o> is a thing 08:01 I would probably not have added it 08:01 I always use #l to loot boxes 08:02 Sure it doesn't affect *you* 08:02 but it affects others 08:02 who do care 08:02 okay, I'm the odd person out, I'll just stop complaining and pretend it doesn't annoy me 08:02 raisse: that wasn't my point at all... 08:02 my point is that o> doesn't make it *worse* for you 08:03 so thus you can continue to not care about o> existing 08:03 oh it looked like "stop pressing your point because everybody else likes the new situation" 08:03 raisse: I am saying that if I added getobj to 3.6.1 today 08:03 where o> did exist 08:03 I would not have added a, 08:03 (thus screwing up menustyle:non-full) 08:03 Logically, loot should be o, 08:03 should everybody just go and use menustyle:full? 08:03 Though #loo should remain supported to avoid breaking muscle memory. 08:03 jonadab: sure I can get behind that 08:04 I mean is that the preferred thing so the rest only exists for us dinosaurs? 08:04 raisse: I didn't realize that it would annoy menustyle:non-full people in first place 08:04 like #name still having the letter options that aren't in the menu? 08:05 Because I didn't anticipate the implication, with lack of autounlock especiall 08:05 y 08:05 I mean, do you-collective expect or require people to just use the default options instead of wanting esoteric non-standard stuff? 08:05 raisse: I anticipated people that used menustyle non-full was the same group of people who would oppose anything screwing with their eat/whatever prompts 08:05 I don't endorse any menustyle 08:06 That is why I combined the behaviour of "new" vs "old" getobj with menustyle 08:06 jonadab: o, sounds like "open pick up things" 08:06 aosdict: o, is open things on the ground. 08:06 raisse: The fact that it fucks with apply prompts is something I simply didn't anticipate 08:06 actually, q, sounds like "quaff pick up things" too. 08:06 aosdict: same as e, is eat things on the ground. 08:06 You don't seem to realize this, only assuming that I am out to fuck people over 08:06 #offer , is sacrifice things on the ground. 08:06 and force people to change their ways 08:06 jonadab: e, sounds like "eat pick up things" 08:06 Which is not true at all 08:07 aosdict: you mean just like o> sounds like "open go down"? 08:07 no, I don't assume you're out to fuck people over; I assume you're trying to make your own ideal game and everybody else is free to like it or not to play it 08:07 your argument makes no sense to me 08:07 which "you", me or aosdict? 08:07 aosdict: 08:08 raisse: I am trying to please as many as I can 08:08 I find "letter" "comma" for "do the letter thing to something on the floor" perfectly understandable 08:08 FIQ: I think I see . not as "self" but as "your space" and , for "pick up" 08:08 Since you are the *only* person I know who uses menustyle non-full in first place 08:08 and you aren't happy 08:08 clearly I didn't do it right 08:08 what I was trying to say is: I don't expect you to please me because I'm not happy with something everybody else is either happy with or doesnt' care about 08:08 because I'm not the Nethack Goddess 08:09 raisse: You are 1/1 of people who use menustyle nonfull 08:09 (even though I called myself "a minor celebrity" in my worldcon bio) 08:09 I added code to do special behaviour for menustyle nonfull 08:09 Doesn't that make it clear that I do care about people like you? 08:09 *of people I know 08:09 yes but note that I don't play fiq so what you do there doesn't affect me anyway 08:09 raisse: FIQHack doesn't even have menustyle in first place 08:10 I wanted to add new behaviour for people who find the new behaviour an improvement, while preserving the old behaviour for people who don't 08:10 I think with o. existing and #loot continuing to exist, I can safely remove apply_ok() affecting floor items and not annoy anyone. 08:10 as I said, I'll just stop complaining and you can stop putting yourself out trying to please me 08:10 Since the old behaviour isn't preserved here (apply being quirky), just remove the apply behaviour 08:10 since o> exists anyway 08:11 I do think it's a good thing in general that there are multiple ways to do something 08:11 aosdict: o. still looks dumb to me and I oppose o. messing with floor containers 08:11 o> doing ot makes sense though 08:11 *it 08:13 aosdict: maybe I should remove floor loot behaviour on apply on getobj "mainline"? 08:13 I don't think raisse is the only one who is going to have this problem... especially not if it is merged into 3.6.1 mainline 08:13 This is what I was doing right now, so if you want to do it upstream, yeah 08:14 if (obj->where != OBJ_INVENT && floor_loot_ok(obj)) \n return 0; is what I have 08:16 not needed 08:16 I'll just remove the entire floor_loot thing 08:16 it isn't used beyond this 08:16 and also flip getobj's allow_floor to FALSE 08:17 afk food 08:18 pushed 08:18 raisse: beta testers are supposed to have atypical settings. You would not BELIEVE how many more css bugs you find when you have your browser set up to use a dark background by default, just for instance. 08:20 the fact that deluminate is as complex as it it shows css people's ignorance of those with dark backgrounds.. 08:20 it has to jump through a bunch of hoops to make sites look sane 08:20 in dark background with bright text 08:22 !who 08:22 FIQ: [hdf-us] hilliance [nd] 08:22 FIQ: [hdf-eu] Raisse [xnh] 08:23 bhaak: how is the response for getobj? has there even been any? is there some specific complaints that I can address 08:31 FIQ: I'd say "not negative". it was just decided that it shouldn't go into 3.6.1 as there are ongoing preps for releasing 3.6.1. but nobody said anything against it on general principles 08:34 I see 08:34 ok 08:35 preps for releasing 3.6.1 confirmed! nice. I guessed as much from the recent doc/ commits. 08:41 re looting: i've always used l 08:41 numpad heathens :P 08:41 u for untrap 08:42 works for me 08:46 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:48 Would be awesome if 3.6.1 is released before June 1. 08:48 Though it's a shame they missed April 1, that is one of the better dates for announcing a release. Along with the anniversary of the previous release, which is always good. 08:49 But sometimes you just have to release when you _can_, i.e., when it's ready to go. 08:49 It's not worth waiting more than a few weeks to hit a magic date. 08:50 jonadab: but if they release it before June 1, we'll get people complaining about how there's no 3.6.2-dev in junethack!!!1!1 08:50 aosdict: Not if 3.6.1 _just_ came out, I think. 08:54 Well, delaying the release until just before June for this purpose would also be silly. 09:05 release mid june 09:11 FIQ: That would either A) annoy players when it's not included, or B) annoy the Junethack people when they have to scramble to include it mid-month. 09:11 If it's not ready before June 1st, I'd hold it until July 1st. 09:17 jonadab: that ws the point 09:17 release mid june 09:17 watc thechaos 09:17 Indeed. 09:18 Heh, we could organize several different variant developers, and have a save-breaking release *every week* during June! 09:18 That truly would be evil. 09:20 aha 09:20 *haha 09:21 that said it would just entil a rename 09:21 3.6.1dev wllbe part of junethack 09:21 it was last year 09:21 Sure. 09:22 this year will be the frstwhere all varants can be played on the same server 09:22 Not unless K2 hosts 3.6.0, will it? 09:23 unless larien contnues her dubious actions casing K2 to stop hosting slex I guess 09:23 Or are we going for more of a 3.4.3 / 3.6+ split? 09:23 jonadab: 3.6.0 and 3.6.1dev si the same 09:23 at least it ws last year 09:24 Junethack continues 3.6.0 and 3.6.1 to be the same variant, yes. 09:24 Err, *considers 09:25 yes I know 09:25 Probably all of 3.6.x, honestly. 09:26 aosdict: will xnh be in 09:26 hmm 09:26 with xn being a thing 09:26 I am no longer tht onenew weird variant 09:27 yay me 09:27 Heh. 09:27 also 09:28 CM nerf is coming 09:28 I want to trial it 09:31 we wont host 3.6.0 09:47 ._. is there a way to build libuncursed so it just has tty statically linked, rather than trying to dlopen it? 09:48 [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Wiz Syl Fem Cha) entered the Sokoban zoo, on T:13063 09:48 <@Tone> FIQ What makes your variants weird? 😄 09:53 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 09:53 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 10:04 FIQ: xnh should be in, I think bhaak is on board with the idea. 10:05 always remember, we had slashthem, too. the bar usually isn't high to participate. 10:11 tubs: Ask ais523 that 10:12 FIQ: I got it working, kinda, using it without aimake was the main issue! 10:12 But I bumbled through 10:12 tubs: FIQHack has a couple of "dummy" C files for libuncursed to be happy when using make 10:13 I also got Tangles to help me a while back to get libuncursed compilation working with the NH3 build process 10:13 for my curses thing 10:13 see the "dumbmake" directory in FIQHack 10:17 Thanks! I got it working, forgot to include tty.cxx *and* tty.c! 10:22 is the libuncursed from the nethack4 repo the canonical one or are there improvments elsewhere? 10:22 I just copied it from my nh4 build 10:32 -!- dtype has quit [Quit: ~] 10:32 bhaak: canoncial 10:33 -!- bug_sniper_ has joined #hardfought 10:33 *canonical 10:33 I asked ais the same a while back 10:33 -!- dtype has joined #hardfought 10:33 he told me the NH4 repo's libuncursed is definitive 10:33 the best xnh innovation: displacing peaceful creatures 10:33 that originated in FIQHack 10:33 you know, where you don't want xnh to steal features from ;p 10:34 no, you've misunderstood me (probably because I was annoyed which made me incoherent), I don't want xnh to completely copy it 10:34 I know what you meant, I was just messing with you 10:34 sorry if you took it badly 10:35 I should be sorry, not you! :-) 10:35 brb food 10:42 back 10:42 I didn't copy peaceful displacement from fiqhack 10:43 Hmm, ok 10:43 But it was there before xnh :P 10:45 !who 10:45 FIQ: [hdf-us] ttc1401 [slex] mightyquinn [sp] Tangles [4k] 10:45 FIQ: [hdf-eu] Raisse [xnh] 10:46 !whereis Tangles 10:46 FIQ: [hdf-us] Tangles [fh]: (Wiz Orc Mal Cha) T:130 The Dungeons of Doom level: 1 10:46 FIQ: [hdf-us] Tangles [4k]: (Wiz Syl Fem Cha) T:16320 The Dungeons of Doom level: 13 10:46 according to Beholder, Tangles is playing 2 games at once 10:46 I am not trusting Beholder 10:47 btw Tangles, you should know one thing 10:47 HP regeneration is disabled in Gehennom 10:47 completely 10:47 have fun! 10:48 lol 10:48 <@luxidream> for FIQhack? wow that’s evil 10:49 FIQ - dgl unlinks from the existing whereis file once the game is over (died, saved, etc) 10:49 but the binary itself doesnt get rid of the whereis file 10:49 hence beholder picks up multiple ones for the same user 10:49 or more correctly, the game binary doesnt always kill the whereis file (sometimes it does) 10:50 this is true of pretty much every variant that uses whereis 10:50 [hdf-us] [slex] ttc1401 (Elp Ang Mal Law), 59924 points, T:9058, killed by a monster (wereearthelemental), while listening to tender crapping noises 10:52 K2: but the whereis file has the info is it is a running game or a finished game 10:53 Oh wow, libuncursed poops on colours when using init_pair. 10:53 shouldnt be a finished game, only a running one 10:54 otherwise !whereis for K2 would say 'K2 is at work, 5th level of hell' 10:55 !whereis K2 10:55 bhaak: [hdf-us] K2 is not currently playing on this server. 10:56 lucky 10:56 sometimes the binary kills the file, sometimes it wont 10:56 [hdf-us] [slex] ttc1401 (Wiz Ang Mal Law) killed Tomoka Kayahara, on T:237 10:56 dgl is set to unlink from them on game end if the variant makes one 10:57 maybe some of these duplicates are from an ungraceful end 10:57 lost connection, game crash, etc 10:57 I mean, the binary shouldn't kill the file but update the file with the info that is suspended/ended 10:57 oh i see 10:57 so if the game is ended or suspended (saved, etc) there should be a flag in the file that states as such? 10:58 unnethack has a "playing" field 10:58 ok 10:58 so beholder needs to learn how to tell the difference 10:58 @luxidream oops, no 10:58 Tangles: I meant sylphs 10:58 that was there from the begining, so I guess most other variants should have that, too 10:58 if state != playing, do not report 10:58 or report as not playing 10:58 ... K 10:59 Tangles ^^ 10:59 *K2 10:59 I told you this quite a while back :P 10:59 no you didnt 10:59 with Un 10:59 yes i did 10:59 we discussed it yes 10:59 there is a "is the game running" flag 10:59 but you didnt lay it out plainly 10:59 hence I told you 10:59 you just didn't understand I guess 10:59 i probably had the dumb that day 10:59 anyway, this is for Un 11:00