00:16 [hdf-us] [nd] vergessen (Val Hum Fem Law), 1121 points, T:3317, poisoned by a killer bee 00:55 the problem with binder isn't randomness but the crazy demand of reading wikipages 01:18 !tell tubs the problemwit binder isn't randomnes but the crazy demnd of reading wikipages. Various variants addresssome of your issues already 01:18 Will do, FIQ! 01:32 [hdf-us] [nh4] cpittman (Val Dwa Fem Law), 32310 points, T:3009, killed by a hill orc, while frozen by a spellbook 01:37 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:52 jonadab: why does slex not count for the purpose of questions like "can you do X in some variant?" :P 01:53 Because for slex it's more a matter of "can you not do X in slex?" 01:54 As long as implementing it isn't "too hard", slex is bound to have either the feature outright or some twisted version of it 01:56 yeah but eating rock is so obvious, I wonder why no other variant implemented it yet? IIRC that feature got added in slex 0.3.5 or something, i.e. in a very early version 01:56 after all, rock moles exist even in vanilla 01:56 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 01:59 Oh I don't know 01:59 LarienTelrunya: What are you thoughts on telewand nerf? 02:00 It's a great change, is it not? 02:00 well, since I was never a fan of the wand balance patch in the first place and played Nethack Fourk as if the wand did not exist, I guess it doesn't change all that much for me... 02:00 Ahh so you like it then 02:00 Cool 02:00 i.e. it was already a terrible change to make the wand work only at expert or higher, so the new change that makes it not work at all doesn't make that much of a difference 02:00 Are you also aware of the changes made to water elementals? 02:01 haha, yeah, you always stated you were a fan of Grunthack :D 02:01 Samurai can reach expert zaps you know 02:01 I think it is an entirely reasonable change 02:02 Mind you, the user has plenty of time to deal with the water elementals 02:02 and if not, there's always knock 02:02 yeah because the samurai is SO good at casting spells :P hopefully the wand of opening works at whatever the samurai's max wand skill is? 02:05 yes, opening will also work 02:05 even at unskilled 02:06 will the water elementals blank all your shit? 02:07 no 02:07 not atm 02:07 they probably should... but I don't like basically forcing people to use oilskin 02:08 LarienTelrunya: Also, not sure if you know, but NetHack has 13 roles 02:09 Maybe if you tried other roles, other variants wouldn't feel so terrible to you 02:10 but the samurai is the best role :P spellcasting just plain doesn't work, if I so much as wear a single piece of metal armor I can't cast anything anymore, plus stuff weigh way too much!!! at least the samurai starts with good STR and CON! 02:11 FIQHack has several additional means of increasing carrycap, and changed how fail% works. xnethack did even more extensive changes to how fail% work 02:12 and dnethack has races with a much higher carrycap 02:13 does your carrycap ever go above the hard limit of 1000 in those cases? 02:13 yes 02:13 in FIQHack at least, not sure with xnh 02:13 hmm 02:13 FIQHack has rings of carrying, +50 carry cap per enchantment 02:13 and objects of carrying, +10% carry cap per item (cumulative) 02:14 Also nymphs have infinite carrycap 02:14 so I guess if you get lucky you can slightly alleviate the carry cap problem in FIQhack 02:15 are there magic chests yet? :P 02:15 No 02:18 !tell ais523 how can I tell about ctrl+f (#find) in a non-intrusive way? Seems like the majority, if not all, I mention the feature to, had no idea it existed, but loved it. I already have it on basically top priority in the controls UI... 02:18 Will do, FIQ! 02:19 how about having the game display a MOTD at startup? ;) 02:22 That is disabled in network builds 02:23 !who 02:23 FIQ: [hdf-us] No current players 02:23 FIQ: [hdf-eu] No current players 02:24 oh wow, nobody playing on hdf at all 02:24 [sarcasm] just make the game say "You haven't used Ctrl+F yet! It does (bla bla bla). Try it now!" every 1000 turns until the player gives in :P 02:24 that's unusual 02:24 LarienTelrunya: lol 02:24 Reminds me of AceHack's tutorial 02:24 It didn't have that (that'd drive people insane) 02:24 but it suggested (once) if you never used diagonals that diagonals are nice 02:25 haha, some modern games insist on babysitting players like that, and some of them don't even allow you to turn the nagging off :D 02:25 well this was in an explicit tutorial mode 02:25 for teaching you the basics control-wise mostly 02:30 !tell K2 feature freeze on May 15th like last time? 02:30 Will do, FIQ! 02:31 damn, is that feature freeze day global for all variants? if yes, I need to finish the junethack-ready slex version until then 02:32 yes, of course 02:33 39 days left to implement as much as I can, I guess 02:34 still sooooooo much on my to-do list, too! :( 02:39 !tell K2 Pushed minor change. Version 4.3.0 is now 4.3.1. There is no other changes. Save compat remains as usual 02:39 Will do, FIQ! 02:41 This in anticipation for a 4.3.1 release after Junethack, so I don't forget to bump the version number 02:50 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 03:00 LarienTelrunya: If you're interested in how much play slex (and other variants) see, you can /msg FIQ-bot variants 03:00 or just join #FIQ-bot and do =variants 03:00 I fired up my ancient mIRC bot a few days ago and implemented a variant tracker 03:01 It tracks hardfought 03:07 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought 03:15 !who 03:15 FIQ: [hdf-us] No current players 03:15 FIQ: [hdf-eu] No current players 03:22 -!- deadnoob_ has joined #hardfought 03:27 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:29 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:31 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 04:01 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:02 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 04:02 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 04:04 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 04:20 -!- kritixilithos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:27 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 04:29 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:30 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:30 -!- elenmirie_ is now known as elenmirie 04:32 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought 04:32 -!- kritixilithos has quit [Changing host] 04:32 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought 04:33 -!- hpardis has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:34 -!- bug_sniper_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:46 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:78842 05:07 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) had Werebane bestowed upon her by Mars, on T:79068 05:08 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought 05:13 -!- Tariru has quit [Quit: Tariru] 05:32 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought 05:35 Tariru: found any of the other 2 branches yet? 05:35 No, just one so far 05:35 ahh 05:36 almost halfway 05:36 Hopefully they're just further up and I haven't missed them. 05:36 that would suck 05:36 at least going down is easier than up 05:37 so revisits will be faster 05:38 you forgot magic mapping? 05:38 No, but it doesn't show the whole map 05:38 You get about 1/7th of it each time. 05:38 sure 05:38 but it allows you to explore most of the map 05:39 So for open levels I just manually do it. 05:39 without having to visit it entirely 05:39 ahh 05:39 well that level isn't really that open... 05:39 meh :P 05:39 btw 05:39 scrolls still reveal the entire map 05:39 so if you have spare markers... 05:39 I think I've used all mine though. 05:39 ah 05:44 Tariru: that is instapetrify 05:44 they're inspired by GruntHack beholders 05:44 hmm 05:44 there is no instapetrify for the player in slex, you always have 7 turns to save yourself :P 05:44 seems like LarienTelrunya changed that 05:44 ah 05:44 Looks like they got nerfed to delayed peri 05:44 nerfed loooooooong ago, too 05:45 evil superbeholder??? wtf where did that come from 05:45 there's like 5 of them there 05:45 was 05:45 WTF 05:46 oh, I guess it's working as intended, as they do spawn in large groups 05:46 @le?evil superbeholder 05:46 No such monster. 05:46 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:47 LarienTelrunya: gaze random isn't implemented 05:47 the game errors when it happens 05:47 but it is implemented; it's just that sometimes it still tries to access AD_RBRE for some weird reason and then the error message displays 05:48 then you did something silly 05:49 -!- Tariru has quit [Quit: Tariru] 05:50 fiq wtf, you removed the ability to teleport monsters with a wand on astral? 05:50 yes 05:50 I always thought that strategy was a bit too potent/cheesy 05:50 making fiqhack so much more fun to play 05:50 you know CM has been significantly nerfed, right? 05:50 you know, it's not really, but like i said, wtf 05:51 and some roles was never able to teleport on astral in first place 05:51 and yet they did fine 05:51 yes i do. tbh despite the excellent ui, i don't think fh is a game i want to play 05:51 it isn't that bad 05:51 and if it is 05:51 I need to rebalance it 05:51 but tele astral isn't the way to go 05:51 to me it's about whether it will be tedious and painful, and from what i read fh is excessively tedious and painful now 05:52 why is teleporting things on astral considered so powerful anyway? if the first altar isn't yours, you need to face the things you teleported away again 05:52 also there's the risk to accidentally zap Famine's corpse and be stunlocked, and then you're screwed 05:52 LarienTelrunya: you can just... teleport them again 05:52 hothraxxa: if that is true then I need to address it 05:52 the days of astral having every tile filled is over 05:53 it isn't all bad 05:53 astral monsters generally do more damage, and partial intrinsics makes things hurt more 05:53 but there's less summoning 05:53 I want astral to be difficult 05:53 it's the hardest area of the game 05:53 from the games i've watched you still get massivley mobbed 05:54 but not tedious 05:54 but now you can't even budge them 05:54 hothraxxa: the most recent ascension, @Winsalot 05:54 i saw that 05:54 barely had any teleportion for 2nd and 3rd altar 05:54 FIQ: does FIQhack's astral plane have the "you are now dead" "I will fuck you up" uberplayermonsters you mentioned? :P 05:54 he died twice 05:55 hothraxxa: he was underprepared 05:55 he was 05:55 low AC, low max HP 05:55 LarienTelrunya: astral player monsters in FIQHack was always like that 05:55 they did get buffed 05:55 but they're not much worse than before 05:55 ah, so the only thing you can do is to move around them and hope they don't have Vorpal Blade? :D 05:55 and you plan to nerf charm monster too am i right? 05:56 Vorpal Blade is an unfun mechanic that I want to address 05:56 and is hardly unique to FIQHack 05:56 hothraxxa: Yes. But not now 05:56 And certainly not before Junethack 05:56 i'll just stick with grunthack i guess 05:56 I have already done several significant balance changes 05:57 I need to let changes be playtested 05:57 If things are tedious 05:57 I need to fix that 05:57 Or too difficult 05:57 Etc 05:57 hothraxxa: Your choice 05:57 very disappointing :( 05:58 I do recommend that you at least try a re-run of FIQHack though if you like the QoL 05:58 you know that astral isn't like how it was when you played 05:58 hothraxxa: you should play slex instead, maybe it's more to your liking :) the next version will actually be significantly easier if my changes work out the way I planned! 05:58 that was absolutely awful 05:58 *bundlebundlebundle* 05:58 -!- kritixilithos has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:00 hothraxxa: btw, speaking of astral 06:00 one thing I have considered 06:00 but haven't gone ahead with yet 06:01 is to rework create monster into a new summoning spell 06:01 possibly combine it with create familiar 06:01 and to make summons temporary 06:02 and to forbid summons any kind of starting inventory 06:02 create monster is a flawed mechanic in a world where you are striving for monster-player symmetry 06:03 see 06:03 that is why 06:03 the mobs are almosy all hostile to the player 06:08 actually 06:08 forcing inventoryless is probably something I should do either way 06:09 this way you don't end up with exponential growth 06:11 there 06:12 no more create monster creating monsters who also have create monster... and so on 06:16 heh, that was how my first promising game of FIQhack ended 06:18 elenmirie: yeah this was especially egregious in 2016 06:18 before there was any CM nerf 06:18 yes, that's when it was 06:18 it happened less now, but it wasn't completely gone 06:18 well, until now 06:18 hm 06:19 so FIQHack CM has seen basically nothing but nerfs 06:19 reducing of CM as defensive spawn in 2016 06:19 reducing charges off wands of CM to 15->8, and make it summon less monsters 06:19 reducing of CM as offensive spawn 06:20 monsters no longer getting any inventory 06:20 at this pace, CM will not remain a mechanic for much longer 06:21 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 06:21 the main thing stopping me from outright removing CM 06:22 is how to deal with altars 06:22 I don't feel like making sacfests 10x more tedious 06:22 hmm 06:22 hm 06:22 maybe I should just allow you to sacrifice gold 06:22 or food? 06:22 or even magical items? 06:23 or everything 06:23 here, Lugh, have a rock 06:23 lol 06:23 sac all the junk 06:23 elenmirie: obviously some items would probably have zero value 06:23 maybe that would piss him off 06:24 haha 06:24 naw but 06:24 New God, St Vincent de Paul 06:24 I need to avoid this being a matter of "hoard half the dungeon to the altar" 06:24 so not everything 06:24 heh 06:24 probably just gold 06:24 for now 06:24 -!- deadnoob_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:24 and maybe food 06:24 and food? 06:25 people have been sacrificing food and gold to temples like forever 06:25 yeah 06:26 as said 06:26 gold 06:26 and food 06:26 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought 06:26 -!- kritixilithos has quit [Changing host] 06:26 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought 06:27 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Bar Orc Mal Cha) polymorphed his first object, on T:38209 06:40 -!- kritixilithos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:44 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought 06:48 FIQ: make altars disappear sometimes when sacrificing, there, endless sacfesting gone :D 06:52 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 06:55 @le?side stabilized 06:55 No such monster. 06:55 @le?side stabilised gelt afire unsteadiest 06:55 No such monster. 06:56 morning 06:56 K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-04-06 02:30 EDT: feature freeze on May 15th like last time? 06:56 K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-04-06 02:39 EDT: Pushed minor change. Version 4.3.0 is now 4.3.1. There is no other changes. Save compat remains as usual 06:57 !tell FIQ feature freeze - yes may 15th sounds good 06:57 Will do, K2! 06:57 hi K2! FIQ said that the feature freeze would probably affect all variants, is that correct? 06:58 (all junethack-eligible ones, that is) 06:58 thats what we asked all variant devs to do last year 06:58 leading up to junethack, by about 2 weeks out or so, no more updates unless it were to fix bugs 06:59 okay, so I'll try to have a finalized slex version until may 15th and have a huuuuuge to-do list to work on come 1st of july :P 06:59 ;) 06:59 aosdict ^^ E word conduct before junethack please :D 07:02 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought 07:02 -!- kritixilithos has quit [Changing host] 07:02 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought 07:03 [hdf-us] [slex] Tariru (Rog Ang Fem Cha) killed Luisa, on T:131416 07:04 -!- theRaisse has quit [Quit: Suddenly, Raisse disappears out of sight.] 07:05 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 07:05 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 07:09 hothraxxa: [backscroll] fwiw, I agree with FIQ that teleport shouldn't work on astral or any other no-tele level, but I also think summoning should be basically non-existent there; getting mobbed by monsters shouldn't be a thing 07:10 FIQ: [backscroll] problem with sacrificing gold is that priests already have that mechanic pretty well covered. 07:11 K2: 3.6.1 doesn't have insanely powerful E like 3.4.3 so doesn't need E word conduct. but making the conduct "unfair monster scaring" has problems with sanctuary. I still don't have a solution for this. 07:12 aosdict yes it does 07:12 while E word is nerfed in 3.6.1 its still a powerful method players can use to save themselves 07:13 aosdict: nerf the sanctuary effect then *bundlebundlebundle* :) 07:13 for free 07:13 from turn 1 07:13 -!- Tariru has quit [Quit: Tariru] 07:13 E-less conduct is still meaningful in 361 07:13 I agree 07:13 FIQ: Message from K2 at 2018-04-06 06:57 EDT: feature freeze - yes may 15th sounds good 07:13 maybe less so in 360 07:14 off to work see you from there 07:15 oh... 07:15 FIQhack updated (us and eu) 07:15 K2: you also need to update dgl's menu 07:15 i did already 07:15 4.3.0 -> 4.3.1 07:15 ah 07:15 ok 07:15 cool 07:15 and scoreboard 07:15 ok 07:17 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:79432 07:18 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:79436 07:20 -!- kritixilithos has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:21 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:25 -!- tubs has joined #hardfought 07:25 *waves* 07:25 tubs: Message from aosdict at 2018-04-05 23:45 EDT: I have some agreements and some disagreements, but am not sure what is the best format to respond. 07:25 tubs: Message from FIQ at 2018-04-06 01:18 EDT: the problemwit binder isn't randomnes but the crazy demnd of reading wikipages. Various variants addresssome of your issues already 07:26 I shall make a gitsomething 07:30 aosdict: http://home.fiq.se/newsac.txt does this sound OK? 07:30 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought 07:31 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought 07:31 -!- kritixilithos has quit [Changing host] 07:31 -!- kritixilithos has joined #hardfought 07:32 FIQ: It's much less comprehensive than what I was going to go for with religion overhaul and godly favor. I do like the idea that the anger/favor/piety scale is more granular than it would be in vanilla. 07:32 aosdict: I see 07:32 I oppose any Luck and religion interaction. 07:33 Confused; you are auto-crowned when you get to 15000 piety? 07:33 No 07:33 It just means that is when you are eligible for it 07:33 * LarienTelrunya notes that FIQ's god doesn't have a can opener :P 07:33 Oh, I should clarify in the proposal 07:33 LarienTelrunya: 2144 /* Gods don't have tin openers */ 07:33 aosdict: anyway 07:33 Also not sure how this will prevent CM altar scumming 07:33 I should clarify that your god gives a message approximating your piety 07:34 since apart from the other sources, this is basically a free source of piety 07:34 So you know when you are eligible for crowning 07:34 s/free/inexhaustible 07:34 aosdict: This was alongside CM changes 07:34 So are you removing +oCM? 07:34 Context: 07:34 10:21:57 @FIQ │ the main thing stopping me from outright removing CM 07:34 10:22:01 @FIQ │ is how to deal with altars 07:34 10:22:17 @FIQ │ I don't feel like making sacfests 10x more tedious 07:35 YASI: summoned monsters get a "summoned" flag (similar to Elona), and they: - give no EXP when killed - don't train skills when you hit them with weapons - don't have death drops - delete their inventory when they die - never leave corpses - (insert additional nerfs here) :P 07:35 aosdict: I will keep CM but change how it works completely 07:36 Create d(skill) monsters that last for 10+(skill*5) turns 07:36 Tame 07:37 And remove it from random monster inventory generation 07:37 (otherwise it'd be so common that it'd be OP in the other direction) 07:38 Bag of tricks will create a single monster lasting for longer 07:39 Scroll will create a hostile monster for 20 turns (cursed), tame for 20 (uncursed), tame for 40 (blessed) 07:39 Spell works like uncursed scroll up to basic, blessed from skilled 07:40 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tubs if you want to reply I guess 07:42 And I'm sure all of this has been done before, but doesn't stop me from wanting to do it myself. :-) 07:43 yaaaaaaaay you mentioned slex's item descriptions ♥ 07:43 PS: I keep getting vaults that are not "hidden", but only when playing this combo, I know people have been looking at dungeon gen recently, is that even possible? 07:44 tubs: every variant except slex and vanilla seems to espouse the philosophy that every game should be winnable 07:44 LarienTelrunya: my biggest gripe with it is that it is on like 5 pages to tab through instead of being a giant page like the pokedex! :p 07:44 aosdict: That's why I said "I don't know!" 07:46 aosdict: I can imagine you can get into an almost-unwinnable situation if I am making all skills randomly available, you could just end up with a broken character. 07:47 tubs: ah, that's because not every item has a randomized appearance that actually does something and I had to make it so that artifacts display their special stats etc. I guess it could have been consolidated into one page but decided to have several pages instead 07:47 So it's more, do I make it completely random, or do I "guide" 07:48 LarienTelrunya: it's not really a big gripe, item descriptions are still 100% better than not. 07:48 LarienTelrunya: though I wish it had the damage rolls, ideally I'd like to try to remove as much wiki-reliance as possible. 07:48 tubs: feedback on xnh item descriptions pretty please? 07:48 tubs: ah, you can get the damage rolls of weapons in-game with the shopkeeper appraisal service! ;) 07:48 tubs: takea look at nh4 whatis 07:48 it only costs 10 or so zorkmids, too! 07:49 for better obj info 07:49 and to top it off, it identifies the + of the weapon in the process :D 07:50 FIQ: one of these days I'm going to copy the bulk of nh4's data.base 07:51 FIQ: How come #whatis doesn't "autocomplete"? 07:51 But yes, that's the type of thing I want! 07:52 Though I like the text description from slex, so ideally I'm going to steal both <3 07:52 Also, I heard from tubs on this but no one else - I adjusted the chance of random doors being secret in xnh to the following: https://i.imgur.com/cdUs1m8.png. What are others' thoughts on this? 07:53 <[Demo]> funny, i fell asleep to that image being posted and now i wake up to it 07:53 [Demo]: Did you dream of doors? 07:53 <[Demo]> thank god no 07:53 <[Demo]> instead of a bad hurricane 07:53 LarienTelrunya: yeah, I like paying to get the +, I quite liked slashem's weapon practice for that too, seemed pretty balanced with the timeout. 07:54 aosdict: I check nh4 now 07:54 Wait, I looked at xnh whatis, not nh4 07:54 So aosdict rather than FIQ, how come #whatis doesn't complete? I have to type the entire thing like some kind of... typist! 07:55 because t s / 07:55 <[Demo]> #find doesnt autocomplete either i think 07:55 *it is 07:56 but / wouldn't int ou as to its purpose 07:56 <[Demo]> wild 07:56 [Demo]: same reason 07:56 ctrl+f exists 07:56 -!- Tariru has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:56 Yeah I basically want to steal a combo of xnh and nh4, blurby + datas. 07:57 Maybe with an option to disable the data 07:57 If people dislike it *shrug* 07:57 <[Demo]> https://i.imgur.com/yWoGG9r.png what do these words mean? 07:57 tubs: look at fh whatis with a monster 07:57 or xnh possibly 07:57 othdata and blurb 07:59 Yep! :) 07:59 [Demo]: I am on phone 07:59 [Demo]: are you using discord, I am so confused... 07:59 Heading home 07:59 tubs: he is 07:59 which is funny 07:59 dscord 07:59 to irc 08:00 to another discord 08:00 @ rld 08:00 <[Demo]> oh yeah when rld got added the situation got dumber 08:01 Madness... 08:01 <[Demo]> what i was doing made some degree of sense before rld 08:01 Also the stuff about dungeons/combat is more what I'm interested in hearing about 08:02 UI stuff is kinda my generic thoughts that could be applied to any variant, but I wouldn't presume to suggest!!! The gameplay stuff is what I care most about for tubhack 08:02 tubs: did you seemytell 08:02 about bnders 08:03 Yes, I just like the concept of not knowing what will happen when you start the game, more than the general flow they follow 08:03 And 100% agreed on wiki madness! 08:03 <[Demo]> binders are great 08:04 They are fun because you have to do things completely differently in each playthrough 08:04 just read these 74 wiki artcles to get started! 08:04 <[Demo]> yeah thats the fun part 08:05 for me binders is matter of surviving untl buer unlocks 08:05 tubs: you might like slex's wild talent role then ;) 08:05 it gets randomized skills, techniques and stuff 08:05 <[Demo]> slex is the ultimate nihilism game 08:05 tubs: wht like about binders 08:05 is theirabilities 08:05 <[Demo]> because nothing matters in it because there is too much 08:05 LarienTelrunya: I shall give it a roll :) 08:06 <[Demo]> amy could make xans instakill you and it wouldnt be that big a deal 08:06 tons of fun abilities 08:06 FIQ: The Ctrl-F powers? 08:06 with various effects 08:06 yeag 08:06 Yeah, I say that's super good, I want more focus on short-cooldown abilities than spells/bashing 08:06 tubs: port #find to tubhack please 08:06 [Demo]: thanks for the suggestion, will implement :D 08:06 What's a #find? 08:07 you have played dcss 08:07 correct? 08:07 it is fiqhack ctrl+f 08:07 works like in dcss 08:07 also for traps 08:07 I played dcss ages ago and didn't really like it 08:08 ctrl+f lets you search for objects 08:08 <[Demo]> could that even be implemented in nh3 based shit? 08:08 that you rememberseeing 08:08 Ahh, yes 08:08 anyway, gotta go now 08:08 [Demo]: no 08:08 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: *wing wing* :)] 08:08 LarienTelrunya: fare thee well, I'll let you know how my wild talent goes 08:08 I thought tubhck ws nh4 08:08 nh4 yes 08:09 -!- kritixilithos has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:09 what base 08:09 nh4 08:09 or 4k 08:09 or fh 08:09 fh likely, I think amy suggested that :p 08:10 f you use fh you get find for free :P 08:10 PS: I think there's a bug with hiking boots in dnh, if you take them off you don't become burdened until you put on different boots 08:10 Yay! 08:12 <[Demo]> im not having that issue tubs, weird 08:12 <[Demo]> when the boots go off, the burdended goes on 08:12 FIQ: I'd port find, but it would require at minimum having to open up all the saved level files and scan them, each time. 08:13 <[Demo]> now you dont get the message that you are burdened until the next turn 08:13 I don't think the infrastructure is there and I don't want to add it myself. 08:13 [Demo]: Maybe that is it. 08:19 <[Demo]> oh neat 08:19 <[Demo]> the plot thickens 08:20 <[Demo]> cursed cans of grease arent the problem 08:30 <[Demo]> fuck i think i somehow broke autorecover 08:30 <[Demo]> not even sure how thats possible 08:39 YANI: Make the Oracle prompts for consultations more obvious as to what the player is getting while still remaining in flavor. Such as minor = the latest gossip in the dungeon, major = a serious piece of advice. 08:43 What's the N in yani? 08:44 new? 08:44 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Mon Elf Fem Cha), 23071 points, T:811, killed by a boulder 08:46 tubs: neat 08:46 yet another neat idea 08:47 YANI is actually a context free grammar 08:57 This is unfortunate... There is a magic lamp in Itzchak's shop, but a dwarf died and left a pickaxe on the entry square, so I can't get in 08:57 I don't really want to have to kill him :( 08:57 Maybe I'll web and run for it? 08:57 you can't... pick up the pickaxe and move it somewhere else? 08:58 The square he stands on, but actually I'm a retard and I had two pick-axes in my own inventory... >_> 08:59 Shhh 08:59 <[Demo]> dual wield pickaxes yeehaw 08:59 <[Demo]> dig *twice* as fast 09:00 :D 09:00 It's kinda dumb that you can one-shot shopkeepers at level 11 unarmed 09:00 <[Demo]> ana is a grade above the rest of roles except maybe binder 09:01 <[Demo]> ana astral is harder than other roles 09:01 <[Demo]> ana quest is hardest quest 09:04 PS: Would silvered gauntlets of power not be itchy? 09:07 tubs: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Phol_ende_wodan/Tubs_Comments 09:08 [hdf-us] [un] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "+2 blessed rustproof Grayswandir", on T:33558 09:08 aosdict: thanks 09:10 aosdict: non-modal in that current variants and vanilla are great!!! 09:10 I mean not going the dcss route of menu-based shopping 09:10 As much as possible should be in-game via items or characters 09:10 hm so what is your opinion on slash'em and dnh shopkeeper services 09:11 I don't mind them, you are still talking to a character in the game 09:11 <[Demo]> crap im dumb 09:12 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:79451 09:12 Yeah, I dislike tutorial branch, just something that is somewhat similar between playthroughs right at the start so it is less overwhelming, even for experienced players, exactly like the first 3 or so levels in nethack 09:12 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the invisible Minion of Huhetotl, on T:24719 09:12 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:24723 09:13 aosdict: do you consider the arcadian road to be flat? Because that's how I'd do it, just drop a magic portal at each connection point. 09:13 <[Demo]> the pussification of nethack 09:13 what is the arcadian road 09:13 <[Demo]> dnd shit i think 09:14 dnd part of the lawful quest, you are on a road, at each end of the road is a magic portal 09:14 It flows really nicely I think 09:15 And yeah, locking to a branch would be awful 09:15 <[Demo]> it would be fun to make a branch that was just 20 of those 09:15 Well, not just! :) 09:16 aosdict: completely agreed with more interesting filler algo, and that's something I will eagerly eagerly steal! :) 09:16 I don't really like the idea of having most of the game be pre-connected with portals. 09:16 [hdf-us] [un] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed magic marker", on T:33609 09:17 <[Demo]> actually 09:17 <[Demo]> that would make a great alternative 09:17 aosdict: So when I mean you'd only see ~1/4 of branches, I mean, say there are 32 branches total, you'd only be able to enter 8 of them in a given playthrough 09:17 YANI though: there's something expensive you can do (ritual spell?) that creates a portal between two levels of your choice. Doesn't work with the Amulet, of course, but otherwise allows fast travel. 09:17 <[Demo]> go through 100 levels of arcadian road to get to the sanctuary with no invocation 09:17 aosdict: re: the hub, or portals at edges of map? 09:17 <[Demo]> or play the game 09:17 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Mon Elf Fem Cha), 27699 points, T:2264, killed by a wolf 09:17 tubs: Both I guess. 09:18 Oh wait 09:18 aosdict: Yes, it is definitely moving away from "nethack", but I don't think that has to be a bad thing. 09:18 By portals at the edges of the map you mean that's how you get to the next "level" = next segment of road? 09:18 Yes 09:19 Staircases have better flavor IMO, and that's an important element to my quest overhaul, but I think I agree with that concept. 09:19 Effectively staircases, but you know roughly where they are going to be 09:19 I'd want to keep super vertical levels too, towers are awesome! 09:19 Which is what I mean by more "level diversity", not particularly more special levels, but make each branch play a bit differently. 09:19 IMO staircases, being nonmagical, are easier to handwave as ' 09:20 *handwave as "this is the necessary device for traveling to the next level" than "walk across 100 yards of a road and then portal-hop to another random segment of road" 09:20 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) performed his first genocide (class L), on T:24976 09:21 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 09:21 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 09:21 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) genocided master mind flayer, on T:24977 09:21 I think FIQ suggested the edge of such a level be filled with invisible undetectable magic portals that don't print messages about being magic portals. But I don't like that as much. 09:22 aosdict: Yeah that would be an alterntive 09:27 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30 aosdict: have ytou seen UnNetHack's approach to secret doors? ( bhaak ) 09:30 it removes randomly generated ones 09:30 FIQ: didn't it remove them entirely or somethign 09:30 so fiq and aosdict: if wands of teleport do not work on no-teleport levels, expect plenty of plane of air splats 09:30 aosdict: I was mentioning that due to your response to tubs 09:31 and if you allow water elementals to engulf... 09:31 which ^ solves 09:31 hothraxxa: Opening. Polymorph. Plain killing. Slowing. Conflict. 09:31 FIQ: I'm fine with the idea of a hidden room that you know is there but need to search for. Just make it so that there's always a path from < to > that doesn't go through secrets. 09:31 yeah plain killing, that works 09:31 Secret doors that are special are fine and good. :-) 09:32 hothraxxa: The way water Es in FIQHack work can be dealt with using a wand of opening 09:32 aosdict: yes, that's what I mean! 09:32 hothraxxa: I never use teleport wands on Air... I save them all for Astral! :) 09:32 Because doing that resets the breath timer 09:32 And yeah, ^, I don't use teleport on Air at all 09:32 I use my spare polycharges 09:32 aosdict: neither do i, but i rarely get enmgulfed on air. i'm thinking of the masses 09:32 Or just deathzap them 09:33 aosdict: I think what tubs meant with 1/4 branches is to not generate all in one game 09:33 I agree with @mtf that it will make people feel like they can actually use their teleport wands in the game 09:33 FIQ: yes he said so 09:35 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 09:35 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 09:37 [hdf-us] [dnh] groovejumper (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 219 points, T:1195, killed by a small mimic 09:37 aosdict: I think with arcadian road, tubs is referring to dNetHack's Law Quest 09:38 It is basically a place in dNH that emulates larger maps with magic portals 09:38 do you think that would help create variety (not generating all branches)? 09:39 <[Demo]> dnh does that already sort of 09:39 <[Demo]> fucking platinum dragon tower 09:39 tubs: I thinnk the best approach here is to not remove entire branches, but have several different selections of special levels 09:39 Like the game already does in some places, but going further 09:39 tubs: Cynically I would think it would make players go "this stupid game didn't generate anything useful for me, I could have had really helpful X branch but only got useless Y branch" 09:40 tubs: As an example, have you been at dNetHack's Gehennom? 09:40 <[Demo]> dnethack gehennom is great 09:40 It selects 3 demon lord lairs from a selection of like 30 09:40 <@Tone> Sleep is my go-to air elemental killer 09:40 Basically each lair in dNetHack is in its seperate pool of lairs 09:41 Thus no Gehennom is the same 09:41 dNetHack has IMO easily the best Gehennom overhaul I've seen 09:41 FIQ: requires making a lot of special levels though... 09:41 aosdict: True, but you can say the same for sac gifts, shops, altars, etc, no? 09:42 aosdict: Good thing there's a bunch of variants you can borrow from ;) 09:42 But if you know which branches have be generated up-front, you can adjust your strategy hopefully 09:42 tubs: You are thinking of how DCSS does Lair branches? 09:43 because I'm not sure how I feel about that system 09:43 DCSS' Lair branch has 3 branches. One is always Slime Pits. The other 2 can be one of 2 different branches 09:44 Thus not all branches appear in the game 09:44 It also has several mini-branches (one-floor one-visit branches) that only spawns sometimes 09:45 like the Minotaur maze, the Wizard Laboratory, and some others 09:45 Hmm, there aren't any one-level branches with multiple level variants are there? (Unrelated to the current discussion, talking vanilla) 09:46 Does vanilla have one-level branches at all...? 09:46 Ludios. 09:46 Oh 09:46 Right 09:46 But that's it I think. 09:46 BUt yeah that's the only one 09:46 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Mon Elf Fem Cha), 21504 points, T:1244, killed by a giant mimic 09:46 *But 09:47 Mine's End *hand waves* 09:48 That's not an one-level branch 09:48 [hdf-us] [un] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the Watcher in the Water, on T:35610 09:48 Mines' End isn't a branch. 09:48 That's... well, the end of the Mines 09:48 I know it isn't really a branch 09:48 !who 09:48 FIQ: [hdf-us] groovejumper [fh] mightyquinn [sp] Grasshopper [nd] ttc1401 [un] Tangles [4k] k2 [xnh] 09:48 FIQ: [hdf-eu] tubs [dnh] 09:50 [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Wiz Syl Fem Cha) defeated Medusa, on T:16341 09:51 !gt Tangles 09:51 Tarmunora_: how is sylph food 09:51 Tangles: 09:53 [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Wiz Syl Fem Cha), 22440 points, T:16364, killed by an invisible ki-rin 09:53 womp womp 09:53 ugh 09:53 [hdf-us] [un] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "5001 gold", on T:35681 09:56 I probably should not go so deep with just the +1 quarterstaff and the +0 CoMR. 09:57 pfft 09:57 you're fine ;) 09:58 Well it's fine until a ki-rin gets next to you. 09:58 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:58 :( 09:59 Can I kill all my quest guardians as an Ana? 10:01 <[Demo]> if sara dies before you are given your quest you are fucked. also why would you kill your quest guardians? 10:02 loot 10:02 I accidentally got telepathy though 10:03 I don't know how to speak to Sara either, she's behind a cage 10:03 <[Demo]> are you greater than lvl 14? 10:03 <[Demo]> also you dont need their loot 10:03 <[Demo]> theres two rooms full of chests of hella loot 10:03 <[Demo]> break her bars at an angle with striking 10:04 Ah, where are these rooms (or must I talk to her first)? 10:04 <[Demo]> you dont need to 10:04 Found 'em, sorry, I am dumbdumb 10:05 <[Demo]> https://i.imgur.com/DzV8ydS.png 10:05 <[Demo]> the one full of bags has one boh in it 10:05 I found it <3333 10:06 <[Demo]> make sure you grab some lightsabers 10:06 I found a double one on the master mind flayer 10:06 <[Demo]> double is shit 10:06 <[Demo]> cause it trains staff kill and uses two hands 10:06 <[Demo]> and annulus is onehanded and uses saber skill but is still double 10:06 *nods* 10:06 <[Demo]> idk grab bullets for your rock gun 10:06 <[Demo]> and ofc all the charging you can 10:07 <[Demo]> hyprospray loot is good too 10:08 I got the silver bullet 10:08 Is it worth getting the offensive ampules, seem a bit janky? 10:09 <[Demo]> yeah polymorph is good for pets 10:09 Paralysis fine but meh sleep? 10:09 <[Demo]> but no 10:09 Ah ok 10:09 <[Demo]> confusion and shit and sleep is dumb 10:09 <[Demo]> yeah paralysis is cool 10:10 Bullet fabber pointless right, mass-shadow superior? 10:11 <[Demo]> no 10:11 <[Demo]> guns are fucking nuts 10:11 <[Demo]> way better than mass shadow shit lobber 10:11 Really? ok 10:11 <[Demo]> whats ur firearm skill? 10:12 Expert 10:12 <[Demo]> grab an AR or a heavy machine gun if you can afford the weight and you can fuck shit up badly 10:12 AR found! 10:13 <[Demo]> the blasters are a bit less good 10:13 Vibroblade poo, force pike poo right? 10:13 <[Demo]> yeah 10:14 <[Demo]> im not really sure how much i can advise you to use lightsabers actually 10:14 <[Demo]> with your shitty catsight 10:14 <[Demo]> and the fact that its 3.15.1 an not .2 which adds a way to make it so you can stop your saber from emitting light 10:14 <[Demo]> I think you would be best off going gunslinger 10:15 [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Wiz Syl Fem Cha), 7794 points, T:1582, killed by a gnome lord, while fainted from lack of food 10:16 Hmm, ok 10:18 <[Demo]> cause if you use a lightsaber you cant see in the dark too well 10:19 If I use a lamp I'm no worse than a regular dude 10:19 Had some more thoughts on ritual spell YANIs while in the shower (wow tubs it really does work!): they come in spellbooks as you would expect, but instead of them going into your spell list you cast them by reading the spellbook, and it asks if you want to begin the ritual; 10:20 aosdict: I do like casting by reading, feels cool 10:20 aosdict: I think there's a Binded spirit that does that 10:20 [Demo]: I didn't need to kill the friends, the baddies did it for me :-) 10:20 It will list all the required ingredients and circumstances you need to satisfy. If you are missing any of the ingredients in main inventory, or failing the circumstances, you simply don't start. If you have all of them, you begin casting it. 10:20 Once the ritual is complete, the spellbook disintegrates. 10:20 aosdict: that sounds good. 10:23 Rituals probably shouldn't require you to take specific actions at specific times; at most it should check the begin conditions I outlined above, and then later check end conditions. End conditions could be various; perhaps you have to be on the same space that you started casting it on (fighting could disrupt this), or just after a certain number of turns, or you need to have an item, or kill a 10:23 monster, or something. 10:23 Flagging ^ as YANI because I use too low of a context to catch all of that. 10:28 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Mon Elf Fem Cha), 42154 points, T:3965, killed by a gargoyle 10:28 Possibly, introduce spellbook charges or use the spellbook spestudied field, so that rituals can be cast multiple times from one book. Would depend on the ritual. 10:31 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 10:32 Also possibly, rituals' casting time might vary depending on the class and how good it is at magic (but then again, keep it simple, constant should be fine for now.) 10:32 tubs: There might be an angle to take ritual spells as sort of an improved Binder thing - there are some similarities, but rituals would be accessible to all rather than restricted to one role. 10:32 *nods* 10:34 YASI: You know how there's a belt of giants' strength in D&D? If we implement belts in nethack, add a Belt of Nymphs' Strength. 10:49 The qust is scary. 10:49 I don't like it. 10:57 -!- bug_sniper_ has joined #hardfought 11:01 bleh 11:01 I hates it 11:02 Though getting two sneak attacks is pretty cool 11:02 But enough of other variants! 11:11 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed Medusa, on T:26094 11:15 <[Demo]> i sure hope you arent trying to do the quest yet 11:23 -!- MisteryMyra has joined #hardfought 11:24 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 11:25 aosdict: how is one supposed to keep a horse alive in your game? 11:25 [08:51:41] Tarmunora_: how is sylph food 11:25 no horse food anywhere 11:25 I don't understand what FIQ was trying to say here 11:26 <[Demo]> eat a horse 11:26 elenmirie :( 11:27 I had to abandon my horse because I couldn't feed it, and then I died soon after 11:27 -!- MiseryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:27 I was hoping to find some food and go back and retame it 11:27 but nothing 11:27 not even a lichen corpse 11:28 RIP tubs 11:28 YASI: vegetarian pets will eat meat if they are about to starve. Since their organism isn't used to meat they only get 10% of the nutrition but at least they'll be able to live on a little bit longer. 11:29 elenmirie: there shouldn't be anything different than vanilla in this regard except the monster spawn changes 11:29 Tarmunora_: he meant to tag Tangles 11:30 Ah 11:30 One hell of a typo 11:30 I imagine it was ta 11:30 -!- loli has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.1] 11:31 elenmirie: I need to look into these weird xnh resource shortages, but I really don't have any idea why they're happening 11:31 -!- loli has joined #hardfought 11:31 I think it's a result of the monster generation 11:31 there's just less stuff around 11:31 that's my theory, anyway, it's hard to pin it down 11:32 what do you think of me removing death drops entirely and buffing the object generation rate 11:32 monsters would still get regular starting inventory of course 11:32 <[Demo]> ill make fun of xnh whatever u do 11:32 hm 11:32 why get rid of death drops? Just buff the object generation rate :D 11:32 do you want xnh to be EasyHack 11:33 [Demo]: hey, I am the one who trashes non-slex variants! get in line and wait until I'm done with xnh :P 11:33 well, give it a try and see what happens 11:33 [Demo]: No, I died to a priest. :-) 11:33 <[Demo]> no i trash all variants and nonvariants because that is the most fun thing to do 11:33 LarienTelrunya: The real inconsistency here is that once your horse goes feral from starving to death, it is now suddenly not starving to death. 11:33 you've got enough people playing to give it a good test 11:33 <[Demo]> half the fun of nethack is making fun of it 11:33 <[Demo]> and then it makes fun of u harder 11:33 <[Demo]> by killing u 11:34 <[Demo]> and then ur sad again 11:34 heh 11:34 elenmirie: It *is* more consistent that way. The entire reason we have death drops is because it's "traditional". 11:34 <[Demo]> so u have to make fun of it more and the cycle continues 11:34 aosdict: nah, I meant it should be like carnivorous pets eating vegetables when they're about to starve (they do that in vanilla, and remain tame) 11:34 sounds like something FIQ will want to fix in fiqhack 11:34 LarienTelrunya: No, I mean in vanilla. 11:34 YASI: Remove scrolls of enchant weapon and enchant armour, fix artifacts at set enchantment values, make better gear spawn as you go deeper. 11:34 oh, you mean when it "starved" while you were off-level? 11:34 aosdict: well, it's consistent with your philosophy, that hanging around old levels shouldn't be advantageous 11:34 Pet starving to death -> goes feral -> well, non-tame monsters can't starve to death, so it now doesn't have to eat... 11:35 or, very advantageous anyway 11:35 SLSHEM doesn't have death drops right? 11:35 Tarmunora_, that actually sounds like a good idea 11:35 <[Demo]> slashem has death drops for monsters with hands 11:35 Ah ok 11:35 <[Demo]> only 11:35 <[Demo]> or no 11:35 I knew it had nerfed puddings with death drops, didn;t know the exact split 11:35 <[Demo]> it might be intelligent 11:35 <[Demo]> idk 11:35 <[Demo]> whatever it is its weird 11:36 Removing death drops good! 11:36 <[Demo]> there is some criteria that must be met 11:36 But to balance death drop removal have to have 11:36 more vaults/stashes etc. 11:36 I'unno 11:38 Also, what would everyone's opinions on consolidating some weapon skills be? 11:38 Stuff like combining polearms and lances, spears and tridents, clubs maces and morningstars, etc 11:39 Yes please 11:39 Sabre scimitar 11:39 same 11:39 I mean wtf? 11:39 Tarmunora_: I thought stuff like that was pretty widely accepted, except everyone has _slightly_ different takes on the exact merges. 11:39 For example, I'm not sure about club and mace, though mace and morningstar are OK. 11:40 Morningstar is more similar to a flail :) 11:40 Wait no 11:40 Isn't a morningstar a spiky mace? 11:40 We should be grateful that vanilla doesn't have a separate polearm skill for each type of polearm. 11:40 What am I thinking of... 11:40 Tarmunora_: yes I am a dummy, I am thinking of the other thing with the chain and the spiky ball 11:41 morningstars have a chain and maces are on a stick 11:41 Maybe different people call the things different things 11:41 ^ 11:41 I have definitely seen a chain+ball thing called a morningstar, but other people definitely call it a mace-like-thing 11:42 Wikipedia says it's a spiky mace with no chain 11:42 Regardless, who uses morningstars, flails, etc, merge them for heaven's sake 11:42 rip 11:42 * LarienTelrunya is probably the only person who is strictly opposed to the idea of removing any skills :P 11:42 LarienTelrunya: Someone had a great idea for you though... 11:42 thanks tubs 11:42 I said widely accepted, not universally. 11:42 LarienTelrunya: 16:40 <+aosdict> We should be grateful that vanilla doesn't have a separate polearm skill for each type of polearm. 11:42 hahahahahahaha :D 11:43 *nudge nudge* *wink wink* 11:43 well that would be taking things too far, even for slex 11:43 I am screenshotting this. 11:43 after all, the player's supply of skill points isn't bottomless! 11:43 why screenshot it? let's send it in to nhqdb! 11:43 please no 11:43 Too much slex stuff there 11:43 there are too many non-interesting slex quotes on there already 11:43 Though combining lance and polearm might be a bit silly, does any class use both? 11:44 you're free to send in interesting non-slex quotes :P 11:44 knight 11:44 <[Demo]> what alignment is reaper? 11:44 <[Demo]> lawful, right? 11:44 <[Demo]> knight would love to use that im sure 11:44 True, lance-spear might fit better 11:45 *nods* 11:45 I did polearm because they both do the pounding attacks 11:45 Yeah, personally lance pounding is weird to me but eh 11:45 Also, merge knife-dagger 11:45 Make it lighter and not pound, knights start with polearm+lance and no longsword \o> 11:46 Ooh 11:46 <[Demo]> oh gross 11:46 That would be nasty 11:46 <@Winsalot> how do I access this naming menu in fh? 11:47 tubs: weird, usually it's the valkyrie that gets the long sword removed from starting inventory and not the knight :P the majority of variants does that for some reason 11:47 LarienTelrunya: to nerf Excalibur right? 11:47 LarienTelrunya: or, rather, "Valk is too easy wah wah wah" 11:47 yeah, probably 11:47 knights have much better flavor basis for getting excal 11:47 "Let's make it slightly less easy" 11:47 aosdict: true 11:47 slex makes it so that knights have a 1 in 8 chance for Excalibur per dip while other lawfuls only have 1 in 50 chance, and the sword can also rust away and be destroyed before it becomes Excalibur 11:47 I think dipping for Excalibur is so "traditional" 11:47 LarienTelrunya: that makes more sense 11:48 Though I want to know exactly what type of fountain can house a watery tart :-\ 11:48 :D 11:48 <[Demo]> if u havent seen some badass fountains in ur days u aint livin 11:48 that reminds me, I should port the "watery tart" message to slex and *bundlebundlebundle* K2 into making Beholder report it ♥ 11:48 <[Demo]> thats tangles ud wanna hop on for that i think 11:49 LarienTelrunya just make it part of slex livelogging routine 11:49 beholder will catch it 11:49 speaking of which, I don't even remember what variants have the watery tart message 11:49 K2: yes, but I want to make sure to format the livelog entry correctly so it matches the other variants 11:49 only our version of 3.6.1 dev and xnh 11:49 ah, xnh has it, I'll grep the source of that then :) 11:50 <[Demo]> [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) had Excalibur thrown at him by some watery tart, on T:23086 11:50 grunthack might have it too I dont remember 11:51 livelog_printf(LL_ARTIFACT, "had Excalibur thrown at %s by some watery tart", uhim()); 11:51 ...yes, that is the code, why did you paste it here 11:51 uhh... weird 11:51 that seems rather different from slex's livelog code 11:52 I just copied it from Tangles' livelog patch */ 11:52 whoops 11:52 been putting */ on so many comments recently XD 11:52 livelogging in 3.6.x is a bit different than what you find in 3.4.3 11:52 oh god does it encode the whole thing in the livelog file? if that is the case, I'll need to actually see the entry in xnh's livelog file to know what the exact string should be 11:52 look in our grunthack repo LarienTelrunya 11:53 ah so grunt has it too? 11:53 i think so 11:53 okay, will do! 11:53 LarienTelrunya: just rebase slex on GruntHack. What could go wrong? 11:54 dual wielding excalibur and a unihorn is cool 11:54 just fyi 11:54 argh, slex's livelog code is completely different it seems 11:54 K2: Can you also dual-wield two dwarvish mattocks as an Arc? 11:55 Arc Gia perhaps? 11:55 in fourk you should be able to 11:55 grunthack doesnt have the code to allow giants to one hand a two handed weapon 11:55 jonadab: in xnh, unihorns are now one handed 11:56 Ah. That makes them quite a bit more powerful. 11:56 aosdict toned down the damage output though 11:56 Ah. 11:56 first he toned it down way way too much 11:56 Ok, that might be a reasonable tradeoff. 11:56 then brought it back up to something reasonable 11:56 I think despite hothraxxa's complaints, I have to reduce the damage from d8/d10. 11:56 K2: O great master of the venerable hardfought server, I beseech thee, may I take a peek at xnh's livelog file? :) 11:57 aosdict: dont fuck with unihorns anymore. its fine 11:57 Not as low as initially, but I do think a unihorn should be rather poor as a weapon. 11:57 omg 11:57 lol 11:57 So d8/d8, comparable to a spear? 11:57 it's a brittle, conical, horn that is not designed to be held in your hand, because it's not a manufactured weapon. 11:58 Oh, maybe it should have a to-hit penalty then. 11:58 in what text are you finding that a unicorn horn is brittle? 11:58 it's made of bone 11:58 bone is brittle 11:58 ;) 11:58 its a magical horn on a magical creature 11:58 ;) 11:58 Sorry 11:58 bone brittle? really? 11:58 Bone is really strong 11:58 Have you ever tried to break a rib? 11:58 maybe after its cooked... 11:58 Not your own 11:59 K2: so let us cook unihorns 11:59 What I mean is, it's not going to flex like a sword or staff can. 11:59 You;ve not seen my staff then! 11:59 And again, I'm truly sorry. 11:59 you ever watch forged in fire? 11:59 K2: your comment is eerily reminiscent of that's your justification? seriously? 11:59 you ever see the bone test? 12:00 they whack the contestants swords and blades on a leg bone to see what damage the bone does to the blade 12:01 you've got some bad information regarding bone as a material 12:01 said comment was in response to me justifying the first unihorn damage nerf down from 1d12/1d12... 12:02 gonna be afk for a while; tubs: good luck with the wild talent! :) 12:02 K2: okay, brittleness would only affect it breaking anyway, and we're not doing that. The other two characteristics I mentioned are more relevant. 12:02 you found a good balance with the unihorn aosdict, dont 'fix' it again, its not broken 12:03 K2: as FIQ pointed out it unilaterally hurt healers 12:03 not in its current form, no 12:03 well, it buffed everyone else's weapon choices except healers 12:03 its still a decent weapon and a healer can wear a shield with it too 12:04 dont - mess - with - unihorn - anymore 12:05 okay :P 12:05 heh 12:06 here's a thought if you think healers still need a bit more love in regards to unihorn - you know how arcs can use an uncursed touchstone like it s blessed? 12:06 <[Demo]> I want a proper alchemy patch 12:06 YANI: ^^ 12:06 <[Demo]> ground unicorn horn 12:06 <[Demo]> a sprig of wolfsbane 12:06 let healers get the passive benefits of a unihorn while wearing gloves 12:06 <[Demo]> and some woodchuck feces 12:06 How does she know what everyone is playing? It's scary! 12:07 K2: Oh, I thought you were going to say healers should be able to use uncursed unihorns as blessed. 12:07 [Demo]: that sounds rad# 12:07 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:07 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 12:07 [Demo]: talking of which, how's demoban? 12:07 ahah 12:08 ok food time, brb 12:09 <[Demo]> radoban is on hold, online multiplayerifying a previously only local multiplayer game 12:09 -!- Mandevil has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:10 -!- bug_sniper_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:11 -!- Mandevil has joined #hardfought 12:11 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Mandevil] by ChanServ 12:12 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 12:35 <@Winsalot> I think this is the first time Sting saved my life 12:35 heh 12:35 <@Winsalot> When horde of hill orcs spawned 12:36 <@Winsalot> Not so useless after all 😃 12:39 [hdf-us] [nh] karlos (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 2801 points, T:1750, killed by a boulder 12:41 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:26714 12:42 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed greased +5 helm of brilliance", on T:26714 12:42 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed +5 cloak of protection", on T:26715 12:43 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed +5 gauntlets of dexterity", on T:26721 12:45 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) wished for "uncursed fixed magic marker", on T:26724 12:47 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed spellbook of magic mapping", on T:27176 12:47 <[Demo]> k2 the high roller 12:48 nothing got +5 12:48 [hdf-us] [nh] karlos (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 307 points, T:440, killed by a sewer rat 12:48 thats ok 12:48 one game, everything got +5 12:54 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) entered Gehennom, on T:27304 13:05 [hdf-us] [nh] karlos (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 2747 points, T:1896, killed by a rabid rat 13:10 There is a grave here. You read: "Ooh! Somebody STOP me!". 13:10 ^^ aosdict is that your handy work? 13:11 nope it's in vanilla 13:11 heh 13:11 you know what thats from? 13:11 I haven't done the epitaph/rumor/engraving stuff yet 13:11 and no 13:11 The Mask 13:11 jim carrey 'the mask' 13:11 Excellent film 13:11 that's a one spicy meatball! 13:12 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:12 Is it worth using The Blade Singer's Spear as a monk two-weapon with martial arts? 13:13 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:13 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 13:20 !tell Chris_ANG https://pastebin.com/e0AjTAPE 13:20 Will do, tubs! 13:20 <[Demo]> a shit ton of monsters have broken unimplemented uhitm attacks 13:20 <[Demo]> chris dont care 13:20 Ah ok 13:21 <[Demo]> i mean he does 13:21 <[Demo]> its just low priority to actually implement them all 13:24 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 13:24 No probs 13:26 tubs: how did the wild talent go? did you like the randomness? 13:27 !whois 13:27 !who 13:27 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] Eleven [nd] k2 [xnh] 13:27 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-eu] AmyBSOD [slex] tubs [dnh] elenmirie [xnh] 13:27 LarienTelrunya: I died but it was actually pretty fun! :) 13:27 yay! 13:27 I didn't like the pet 13:28 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:28 Oh yeah, I starved to death but, I think one of the levels was really weird, it had a nuclear plant in it (omg spellbook of genocide called Iranian, please tell me that wasn't just luck) 13:28 there's some way to disable the pet in the options file, I don't remember how though 13:28 Pettype:nopet or something like tht 13:28 I jusgt abandon it 13:28 yeah that works too ;) 13:28 But one of the doors was, I'm pretty sure, behind some contamination traps/styx water, so I couldn't get to it 13:28 that spellbook of genocide was random though, sorry 13:29 So a spellbook called Iranian. In a nuclear plant. Of genocide. That is too perfect :D 13:29 Genocide is not perfect* 13:29 oh you can walk through styx rivers and contamination traps; it will contaminate you but if you have a method of decontaminating yourself (it's like dnethack's weeping angel contamination) it's not too bad 13:30 oh you mean "iranian spellbook" as the randomized appearance! 13:30 yes! 13:30 heh, weird coincidence! 13:30 <[Demo]> unfortunately stuxnet didnt work that way 13:31 heh 13:31 <[Demo]> free persia 13:31 Why do I have magic resistance... 13:32 I'm also trying to get a build of fiqhack with the bare minimum that I want, which is "fun"! 13:33 ah, amulet stupid tubs 13:34 tubs: bad timing if you're using my git repo, just did some changes to it 13:35 see README in last commit 13:35 Using my clone from a week or so ago, so hopefully should be safe? 13:35 sure 13:35 I didn't kill off the source or anything 13:35 I want to get what I want building and working somewhat stably, then I will rebase 13:35 just that I did some restructuring in my branching 13:35 aosdict: "They are great, but my main reservation is there doesn't seem to be a nice interface-friendly way to make it work that doesn't involve extended commands, and there's no good way to show how close they are to being usable again." uhh, I beg to differ :P granted, slex's #technique is an extended command but it nicely shows how close they are to becoming available again! 13:36 because since I now did the version bump in anticipation for July proper 13:36 the branch name 4.3.0 made no sense 13:36 LarienTelrunya: I meant without having to enter a command sequence just to look at the cooldowns. 13:36 so I obsoleted the branch, updating the README to say so 13:36 made a 4.3.1, which is where the history up to the release of 4.3.1 will go 13:36 and a development branch 13:36 where continuous development will go 13:36 aosdict: Ctrl-F shows the exact cooldown remaining for "powers" 13:36 just a heads up 13:37 what branch do i need to be on now FIQ 13:37 Thanks FIQ will keep in mind! :) 13:37 K2: development 13:37 ok 13:39 Huh, shopkeepers don't care about a seismic hammer? 13:41 git checkout development 13:41 error: pathspec 'development' did not match any file(s) known to git. 13:41 weird 13:41 i can see the dev branch on github 13:42 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 13:42 . 13:42 Chris_ANG: Message from @riker at 2018-03-30 22:56 EDT: bug(?) stun will never make you target yourself 13:42 Chris_ANG: Message from [Demo] at 2018-03-31 22:16 EDT: add monsters riding steeds to dnh because brass has that and u dont and that was cool and u copped other cool shit from brass so you should do it if u want dnh to be the coolest variant ever 13:42 Chris_ANG: Message from FIQ at 2018-04-01 09:17 EDT: maybe incants would work better with merged HP/Pw 13:42 Chris_ANG: Message from tubs at 2018-04-03 19:10 EDT: https://pastebin.com/eXTfn1v8 13:42 Chris_ANG: Message from @rikersan at 2018-04-03 22:06 EDT: AD_SOUL isn't just deep ones, it's arc. avengers as well, might as well add that to the comment in monattk.h 13:42 Chris_ANG: Message from [Demo] at 2018-04-04 15:10 EDT: not sure if its fixed in 3.15.2 but cursed cans of grease and twoweaponing dont play well 13:42 Chris_ANG: Message from @rikersan at 2018-04-04 18:09 EDT: something crashed in rlyeh, I think it was a stunned pit fiend casting spells at other pets? 13:42 Chris_ANG: Message from @rikersan at 2018-04-04 18:09 EDT: pit feind was my pet just fyi 13:42 Chris_ANG: Message from @rikersan at 2018-04-05 11:37 EDT: apparently shadow blades/fem myr melee doesn't train bare handed skill? also can they please have martial arts thank you 13:42 Chris_ANG: Message from tubs at 2018-04-05 11:39 EDT: https://pastebin.com/vhZ8kyBn 13:42 Chris_ANG: Message from @rikersan at 2018-04-05 11:54 EDT: black bolt (myr ana) doesn't anger shk 13:42 Chris_ANG: Message from @rikersan at 2018-04-05 19:04 EDT: request: known necronomicon things in end dumplog 13:42 Chris_ANG: Message from @rikersan at 2018-04-05 19:25 EDT: idea: juggernauts only give their scraping msg on direction change 1/10 of the time? it's a pain in the ass when you can hear it across the level, every third/second turn when they pace their vaults 13:42 Chris_ANG: Message from tubs at 2018-04-06 13:20 EDT: https://pastebin.com/e0AjTAPE 13:42 :O 13:42 popular guy 13:43 lol 13:43 -!- rld2 has joined #hardfought 13:43 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld2] by ChanServ 13:43 -!- rld has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44 Beholder feature request: at some volume of messages, it just sends them as an email instead. 13:44 <[Demo]> how would that work for ppl going through rld? 13:45 who ever checks email these days? 13:45 The same? Beholder still has all the messages. 13:46 Could it pm the recipient instead of messaging the channel? 13:47 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:79831 13:47 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:79833 13:47 I guess it's mainly a question of whether you want the sender to know it's been received. 13:48 @rikersan I could probably arrange it so Juggernauts only message once per 100 turns or something. 13:48 aosdict instead of an email, send as a private message 13:48 @mtf rld died briefly and now he's rld2... needs a restart if Beholder is to be aware of him 13:48 Beholder could pm the sender also. 13:48 <@mtf> ok 13:48 <@mtf> one min 13:48 Chris_ANG: I find the heading messages useful when fighting it... 13:49 of course they should only show when in view 13:49 -!- rld2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49 Right, that's what I was thinking. Not what I said, though XD 13:49 However, 13:50 knowing when it's made a turn out-of-sight is perhaps even more valuable. 13:52 but how do you know it then 13:52 Currently you get the scrapping message, which lets you know it's heading back your way. 13:54 Hey K2, apropos of nothing, what sort of backups do you keep of saves? 13:55 dgl creates a backup everytime a user logs out and saves 13:55 i also backup everything daily 13:55 i do a daily/weekly/monthly scheme 13:55 * Chris_ANG may or may not have hit a save-shredding bug of unknown cause recently <.< 13:55 hmm 13:56 well I can definitely confirm that in dnhslex there is such a bug and it's *very* annoying 13:56 I think it's different than the one you've been hitting, but maybe not. 13:57 A monster was somehow left with a bad weapon pointer, which was only detected when the level was unloaded during saving. 13:57 <[Demo]> oh yeah chris dont get glibbery when twoweapoing 13:57 how does the one you're referring to manifest? mine manifests as "segfault -> recovery says its successful -> game declares trickery -> goodbye (and segfault again during handling the trickery)" 13:57 <[Demo]> yo that happened to my shit too 13:57 <[Demo]> but i probably caused it 13:57 This somehow resulted in a stack overflow that crashed the game during the save process, 13:58 resulting in an incomplete save game. 13:58 <[Demo]> on hardfought i can recover from grease crash but in ndnh i cant 13:58 <[Demo]> "Saving... Cannot open save file.--More--" but i also get this half the time so i cant be surprised 13:58 <[Demo]> or rather initially i guess 13:58 Because the save process had been started, nethack's built-in recovery process doesn't work because part of everything is deleted. 13:58 <[Demo]> hmm 13:59 (the old save is gone, and so are the individual level files that are usually used to recover in the event of a crash) 14:00 slex used to have savegame errors too; while it was possible to reconstruct the save, it was a major pain in the butt to do so 14:00 LarienTelrunya: If you're running in wizard mode the game really shouldn't declare trickeries .~. 14:00 <[Demo]> yo it does 14:00 Chris_ANG: Yes, but the segfaults also occur in normal games. 14:00 <[Demo]> it did it to me 14:00 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 14:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 14:00 <[Demo]> i got called a tricker in wizard mode 14:01 <[Demo]> and it segfaulted 14:01 <@mtf> should be back up, let me know 14:01 For example, if I open the discoveries screen with a chiropteran samurai, it gives a segfault every time. 14:01 <[Demo]> looks good mtf 14:02 Dwarf ana is fun, I feel like a real miner! I just go collect rocks, refine them, sell them, etc. 14:03 <[Demo]> refine them and shoot them 14:04 FIQ: Merged HP/Pw might be too powerful, given that their power totals probably *need* to by much higher than typical HP totals. 14:04 I found a bones file with a mass-shadow [Demo] 14:05 So yeah, I keep a stock for the heavy machine gun, but mostly plink with the pistol, it does more damage than the mithril pistol I started with 14:05 And I have a stock of 5000 bullets waiting for me if I *Really* need 14:05 Perhaps they would work better with a (toggleable) regeneration power, that converts Pwr to HP at a rate of 1 per turn or something. 14:07 And Chris_ANG sorry for the !tell spam I'd been addicted to dnh a little bit recently... 14:07 lol, np :) 14:10 Chris_ANG: one question I had that probably isn't a bug - drow fem ana, is their bound spirit what stops all passive attacks against them? 14:11 [hdf-us] [4k] kek (Mon Hum Mal Law), 8793 points, T:1936, killed by a fire ant 14:11 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Rog Hum Fem Cha) killed Medusa, on T:66992 14:11 Chris_ANG: which monster are you talking about? 14:12 Chris_ANG: I didn't get hit by any passive attacks while playing as a female ana drow, if attacking "bare-handed" 14:12 Though bare-handed uses AD_SHDW, which doesn't seme to train bare-handed skill, but doesn't count as "hits with a wielded weapon" 14:12 <[Demo]> talk about the bolt 14:12 <[Demo]> and how it doesnt piss shit off 14:14 Yeah, black bolt doesn't aggro things 14:15 tubs: Yeah, the shadow blades are marked as a non-contact melee attack, so you don't get passives. 14:16 And yeah, it counts as a natural attack rather than an unarmed attack, so there is no associated skill. 14:16 And yeah, that black bolt thing is a known bug that I really should have fixed by now <_<' 14:17 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Mon Elf Fem Cha) killed the monk of groovejumper, the former Novice, on T:1347 14:18 And also yeah, the trap code doesn't check if the monster is dead before printing messages. 14:18 Chris_ANG: That trap code bug is from vanilla isn't it? 14:18 I'm 90% sure I reported and supplied a patch about 12 years ago for an identical bug :) 14:19 Yes, a dormant one I think, since IRR there's no way for dead monsters to fall into a trap. 14:19 Oh, then yeah, probably XD 14:20 The bug was if you had elbereth and a mob moved onto a trap next to you and died 14:20 it would die, then run away 14:20 Chris_ANG: who is having merged HP and Pw? 14:20 Incantifiers. Currently they don't heal naturally, 14:21 so you have to carefully monitor your HP and cast healing magic as needed. 14:21 Chris_ANG: what is this about trap bug? 14:21 The trap code doesn't check if monsters are dead, 14:21 so you can get a message about a monster dying, then one about it falling into a trap. 14:22 ah 14:22 nh3 shenanigans 14:22 The easiest way to see it in dnh is to play a female drow Ana and kill stuff with your black bolt power. 14:23 Why is the gender relevant? 14:23 Standard drow shenanigans. 14:24 because female and male drows effectively play as different races 14:24 males and females get different starting packages. 14:24 Only Female Drow are bound to Eddergud right 14:25 No other race/role/gender can ever ever get Black Bolt? 14:25 -!- hf_guest_48804 has joined #hardfought 14:26 How do I register my username? I can't seem to login with a new username to the nethack server. 14:27 <[Demo]> nobody else gets the spirit bound 14:28 hf_guest_48804: it should offer you an option "r) Register new user" 14:28 oh wait 14:28 is this eu.hardfought.org? 14:29 you may need to register on the regular hardfought.org 14:29 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 14:29 tubs: You can get it as a male non-noble drow also. 14:30 By converting to Lawful before being crowned. 14:30 (Possibly, but not necessarily, by accepting the quest nemesis's offer to switch sides) 14:31 non-noble non-anachrononaut, actually. 14:31 ...non-binder. 14:32 aosdict: Thanks, yeah it was eu. 14:34 Chris_ANG: heh, can you get it from the book of names too? 14:34 <[Demo]> nope 14:35 ...hooloovoo should be nopoly >_< 14:35 Yeah, nope to book of lost names. 14:35 It has been a feature note for ages that drow binders should be able to get that spirit while on the quest. 14:36 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:80703 14:39 It's fun! 14:39 Shame it doesn't have an associated skill 14:39 I feel like a SC Zealot 14:39 Which is almost thematric! 14:39 thematic* 14:39 thematrix 14:39 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Mon Elf Fem Cha) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:3555 14:40 tubs: You *are* a SC Zealot ;) 14:41 :) 14:41 At least insomuch as I hear the old Zealot psiblade sound-effect whenever I make a melee attack as a DroFemAna. 14:42 Does studied last forever? 14:51 <[Demo]> no 14:51 <[Demo]> goes away quickly 14:51 Ah cool, cheers 14:55 Chris_ANG: 'h - a gain ability ampule (-8 doses)' 14:55 Chris_ANG: IS that not supposed to happen? :x 15:00 Do I feel a little bit dirty? Yes, am I max stats? Also yes. 15:00 <[Demo]> heh 15:01 Hmm, how am I supposed to get debugplines to show up? Anyone know? 15:01 I have DEBUG defined in global.h. 15:02 [Demo]: It isn't my fault! IT IS THE FUTURE. 15:02 And now fuck, I need to get to a dance and I'm going to be late, curse you and your addictive gameplay, Chris_ANG ! 15:06 :P 15:06 And yeah, known bug. On list to be fixed before next release. 15:06 I also added a few more from today to the list. 15:07 <[Demo]> 3.15.2 before junethack? 15:10 -!- tubs has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:20 [Demo]: That's the goal. 15:21 Chris_ANG: 39 days left 15:21 Will probably involve a last-minute-sprint 15:21 <[Demo]> well 15:21 <[Demo]> i plan to do a very very unethical junethack this year 15:21 <[Demo]> make sure to make that easy 15:22 ^^ bhaak 15:22 ;) 15:22 I *do* normally try to fix crash bugs as they are discovered during junehack :P 15:24 please make sure segfaults don't cause the game to claim false trickeries anymore 15:25 trickeries are worth points ;) 15:25 in fact, if you fixed that on your local 3.15.2 already, it would be nice to push that so I can update dnhslex :D 15:25 Honestly, I should probably just move type-two plumach towns and ferrumach towers into next version 15:26 LarienTelrunya: I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen in local, or on server. So I'm not sure what's up with that. 15:26 can you cause a segfault on purpose locally? might be a good idea to test that 15:26 I fairly regularly segfault stuff by accident. 15:27 Most I think the most recent one was the save-shredder last week. 15:27 And when you recover those segfaulted games, do they recover cleanly? 15:27 Which *did* shred the save, but not due to a false trickery. 15:28 Yeah, I could wander around on the neutral quest gate town level, just as long as I didn't try to leave. 15:28 (leaving caused the game to realize the dungeon wasn't there anymore, crashing the game) 15:29 hmm, weird 15:29 3.16.0 (i.e. next version) will probably just be the neutral quest inclusions and the Half Dragon Female Noble quest, since those are most complete. 15:29 <[Demo]> and fixes? 15:29 whenever dnhslex segfaults on the server, and I recover, it claims a trickery and then segfaults while trying to handle the trickery 15:29 And fixes. 15:30 Well, like I said before, the segfault is a deliberate replacement of nethack's usual trickery behavior. 15:30 ...but why 15:30 (which is to deep six the save) 15:30 Because, proper resolution of a trickery destroys the save. 15:30 why fix one bug with another when you could fix it correctly instead :P 15:31 well your improper resolution of a trickery destroys it too! 15:31 Because trickery resolution is not a bug. 15:31 It's a symptom of a bug. 15:31 Rather, a trickery is a symptom of a bug. 15:32 slex resolves trickeries in a much better way: it just does nothing and continues as normal :P 15:35 YASI: Maybe I should make the impossible/panic/desync dialog show a Trickery option, which ends the game in a Trickery, if it comes up during the last day of June. 15:35 <[Demo]> man i reached the end of a short term project and my life has no direction anymore 15:36 Chris_ANG: this is the segfault I get when opening the discoveries: https://pastebin.com/raw/pKbwAjtx 15:36 "otyp=17458830" 15:36 pretty sure there's something going very wrong 15:37 huh, wtf, this time the automatic recovery worked and it didn't claim a trickery 15:37 first time dnhslex autorecover actually recovered stuff into a working savegame! 15:37 ...how many new items did you add? 15:38 0 15:38 <[Demo]> my shit is always forcing trickery too but it wasnt doing that before and i think ive somehow caused that? 15:38 [hdf-us] [nd] redshirt (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 3218 points, T:5497, killed by a soldier ant 15:39 okay, tried again, but this time I was on dungeon level 2, and it says "Strange, this map is not as I remember it..." upon recovering 15:39 <[Demo]> yeah 15:39 <[Demo]> i think it has to do with something involving how we've built it 15:39 Program terminated with signal 4, Illegal instruction. #0 trickery (reason=0x7fffffffe2a0 "This is level 2342400, not 9091073!") at src/restore.c:762 15:40 Chris_ANG: fix plz :P 15:40 <[Demo]> i think it works if u dont set up ur dnethack wrong 15:40 FIQ: my attempts to create rooms in mazes may be stymied by some weird behavior of create_room 15:40 what do you mean setting it up wrong??? 15:40 <[Demo]> i dont know 15:40 <[Demo]> do you ever have issues saving? 15:40 no 15:40 <[Demo]> are you sure? 15:40 only when recovering 15:40 <[Demo]> like i mean the first save 15:41 <[Demo]> fire up a game and take a save 15:41 <[Demo]> a new game 15:41 Saving... Cannot open save file.--More-- 15:41 wtf 15:41 <[Demo]> same 15:41 <[Demo]> lol 15:41 maybe there's still some residue from that old crashed one 15:41 second attempt worked 15:41 <[Demo]> yes 15:41 <[Demo]> second attempt always works 15:42 <[Demo]> oh maybe theres just left over crap 15:42 but the problem remains that *dnethack's recovery feature is bugged and mangles the dungeon* (I repeat, gdb says that the trickery code displayed "This is level 2342400, not 9091073!") 15:42 I suspect the xchar-to-int thing 15:43 [hdf-us] [dyn] cuck (Luxidream) (Pri Hum Mal Law), 6198 points, T:15226, killed by a Grey-elf, while reading a book 15:43 <[Demo]> ha amy 15:43 <[Demo]> i figured it out 15:43 you did? 15:43 <[Demo]> yeah 15:43 what is it? 15:43 <[Demo]> theres some bullshit crust left over in the dnethackdir 15:43 <[Demo]> just delete it 15:43 <[Demo]> and recompile 15:43 <[Demo]> and then you can autorecover again 15:43 wtf? what does that mean in plain english? 15:44 <[Demo]> rm -r dnethackdir 15:44 <[Demo]> make install 15:44 FIQ: the weird behavior in question is that it doesn't take absolute x and y coordinates, it takes fifths of the screen x and y coordinates 15:44 <[Demo]> works again 15:44 <[Demo]> boom 15:44 ??? 15:44 ... that won't fix the broken autorecover code though 15:44 she doesnt know linux very well [Demo] 15:44 <[Demo]> the code isnt broken 15:44 <[Demo]> the save crust is broken 15:44 <[Demo]> uhh 15:44 what the hell is the save crust? 15:44 <[Demo]> i think there is leftover save material 15:44 I've never heard of such a thing 15:44 <[Demo]> that shouldnt be there 15:44 crust is a slang term 15:44 think I might just remove that behavior and make it specify absolute coordinates... the only place it's used is to center Minetown rooms on the map. 15:45 <[Demo]> just delete the dnethackdir directory and recompile 15:45 but I don't want to! people still have ongoing savegames! 15:45 <[Demo]> and it will save the first time and autorecover as it shoudl 15:45 <[Demo]> ohhh on your server right 15:45 <[Demo]> well 15:45 <[Demo]> you'll have to investigate deeper 15:45 <[Demo]> find the crust 15:45 <[Demo]> and eliminate it 15:45 <[Demo]> have fun 15:45 ... what does that even look like? 15:46 <[Demo]> no idea, i just deleted the directory because thats way easier than trying to figure out why shits broken 15:46 <[Demo]> now why its building up that crust? I dont know 15:46 make clean / make spotless 15:46 and make all again (clean slate) 15:46 wait, that hopefully won't wipe the saves, right? 15:46 why would that wipe saves? 15:47 <[Demo]> wiping saves would be one way to do it 15:47 gmake: *** No rule to make target 'spotless'. Stop. 15:47 you're not compiling directly into the folder that serves up the game are you? 15:47 oh gmake 15:47 gmake clean and gmake all work 15:47 <[Demo]> ok im out i fixed my own problem and i dont wanna cause more problems 15:47 clean is probably sufficient 15:48 but LarienTelrunya 15:48 you're not compiling directly into the folder that serves up the game are you? 15:48 well I'm compiling from /slashem/dnhslex into /slashem/games/dnhslex, so I guess no? 15:48 ok 15:48 i.e. the former is the source folder and the latter is the game folder 15:49 just that your 'will this delete my saves' gave me pause 15:49 K2: my advice is stop giving advice, if she messes something up you'll be blamed for eternity 15:49 <[Demo]> yeah thats why i shut up too 15:49 i know. i told this to myself about 3 min ago 15:50 and of course it still claims a false trickery when I segfault on dungeon level 2 and recover 15:50 seriously, I can't believe that the autorecover code is working on Chris_ANG's end 15:50 I don't suppose anyone knows what #ifdef TOS is? 15:50 <[Demo]> something weird is crusting up the saves, there is a code issue 15:51 <[Demo]> and it is also in 3.15.1 15:51 Chris_ANG: terms of service? :P 15:51 terms of service? 15:51 hah 15:51 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 15:51 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 15:53 Are you building on an Atari? 15:53 #define TOS /* define for Atari ST/TT */ 15:53 <[Demo]> christ 15:54 (That's commented out on my end, btw) 15:54 However, if that is NOT commented out, the restore code appears to declare the level number as a short. 15:54 Which is probably worng. 15:54 *wrong 15:55 well I just happened to find a bug in slex's recover code; it's unrelated but maybe also relevant for dnethack eventually: restore_savefile() in recover.c assumes that the level numbers are always smaller than 256, and fails to put ones with higher numbers back into the savegame when recovering 15:56 amazingly, when I crashed slex on purpose with a char who had dungeon levels with higher index numbers, I could still load and save that one normally :D 15:57 <[Demo]> clearing my dnethackdir made it work for whatever reason 15:57 -!- mpt| has joined #hardfought 15:57 yeah but you have a different bug! 15:57 <[Demo]> nah it acted exactly as yours 15:57 <[Demo]> like very confident they are the same 15:57 LarienTelrunya: I think that function doesn't exist in dnh. 15:57 <[Demo]> every single symptom was present in both of our cases 15:58 Chris_ANG: it does, check recover.c please ;) 15:58 that function also uses xchar for the level number which might be causing the error I'm getting 15:58 Oh, there it is. 15:58 Yep, that might do it. 15:58 xchar sucks :( 15:59 asjkl;dfafsldkj;dkjfls; probably. 15:59 * LarienTelrunya changes it to int and recompiles to see if the problem persists 15:59 xchar is a synonym for int on my end I think. 15:59 If it's a synonym for char or unsigned char on your end that would explain the inconsistencies. 16:00 <[Demo]> should that just be changed to an int? 16:01 yep that did the trick :P 16:01 could recover the segfault this time 16:01 <[Demo]> i bet if i hadnt deleted my dnethackdir that would have fixed it 16:01 <[Demo]> nice 16:02 Chris_ANG: do you compile your dnethack with WIDENED_PROTOTYPES to make xchar behave like an int? 16:02 No clue. 16:02 #define xchar uint64_t 16:03 https://github.com/Chris-plus-alphanumericgibberish/dNAO/blob/compat-3.15.1/include/global.h says that your xchars are still signed chars, so realistically recovery shouldn't work 16:04 Chris_ANG: that would explain the dnethack recover issues with size-128 dungeons 16:04 <[Demo]> yey 16:04 <[Demo]> something good came out of this! 16:04 please mention me in the commit message and/or credits if you're going to fix the error in recover.c :D 16:04 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed Juiblex, on T:28754 16:04 <[Demo]> u didnt get mentioned in my commit message but nobody reads my commit messages anyway 16:05 *I'm* not even in dnh's credits file XD 16:05 <[Demo]> im not even sure what that is 16:05 <[Demo]> everything is still called dnethack 16:05 <[Demo]> i havent gone through the great rebranding where all the proper names and words get slapped on shit 16:05 Yet The new devteam members are. 16:05 <[Demo]> ha 16:06 'cause the only file I was able to merge when I tried to do a merge between new nethack and dnh was the credits file. 16:06 yeah but I fixed this long-standing bug, I want credit for it because I'm an incorrigible attention whore :P 16:06 'cause some doofus on the devteam re-did all the tabbing and line-endings ;) 16:07 <[Demo]> im gonna see what happens in ndnh when you roll a chriop samurai and look at the menu 16:07 Oh right 16:08 I meant to ask LarienTelrunya what role that was with the discoveries crash. 16:08 So, LarienTelrunya, ^? 16:08 <[Demo]> samurai bat 16:08 <[Demo]> works in ndnh which is 3.15.1 based 16:09 Chris_ANG: chiropteran samurai, not selectable in regular dnethack though 16:09 #1 0x00000000006824ca in obj_typename (otyp=17458830) at src/objnam.c:354 16:09 ^^ suggests to me that there's yet another xchar/int confusion at work 16:10 although, actually, otyp has always been an int since there's more than 256 base object types... 16:11 oh I should issue a hotfix for the slex bug 16:12 <[Demo]> hey amy you should turn off the dumb black is blue thing in dnhslex 16:13 Chris_ANG: If the whitespace had been sane or even uniform in version 3.4, maybe they wouldn't have urgently needed to redo it all. 16:13 !tell K2 while troubleshooting the error that trashes dnethack savegames, I discovered an unrelated error with slex's autorecover feature. Hotfix is on the slex-2.1.7 branch again. I'm hoping it can be applied cleanly, as it will probably cause the recover utility to be recompiled. 16:13 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 16:13 <[Demo]> hey chris you should turn off the dumb black is blue thing in dnh 16:13 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the invisible Baalzebub, on T:29142 16:14 [Demo]: yeah that's really annoying, isn't that supposed to be a boolean option? 16:14 Confirmed no crash here. 16:14 use_darkgray is a community patch against 3.4.3 16:14 Which 3.6 incorporates. 16:14 Chris_ANG: what did you do to try to make it crash? 16:14 I suspect dnao probably has it, since 343-nao does. 16:14 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought 16:14 <[Demo]> ctrl c in gdb lol 16:14 Started a chiropteran samurai and looked at my discoveries. 16:14 and they got displayed? 16:14 Yup 16:14 weird 16:15 And yeah probably more char confusion. 16:16 <@Winsalot> FIQ, you here? 16:17 yes 16:17 <@Winsalot> How many people have ascended fh in total? 16:17 <@Winsalot> approximately at least 16:17 https://scoreboard.xd.cm/ascended.fh.html 16:17 52 ascensions in total 16:18 <[Demo]> how do i use a cutting laser again? 16:18 <@Winsalot> cool. 16:18 [Demo]: Shoot walls 16:18 <@Winsalot> Hm, hdf0us seems much more active 16:18 you, me, mtf, MiseryMyra, groovejumper, Luxidream, puck, NCommander, jonathanhanes, woodfighter, Khor, NeroOneTrueKing, hothraxxa, K2, noty, introsp3ctive, firemonkey, elenmirie, Mandevil 16:18 <[Demo]> ahh it fire 16:19 <[Demo]> tried force 16:19 19 people 16:19 ah :) 16:19 @Winsalot More US people play 16:19 <@Winsalot> I've been telling my coworkers that I'm second person to acend on server 😃 16:20 <@Winsalot> Sounds better than 52nd 😃 16:20 Heh 16:20 well you'd be 19th 16:20 Just tell them you're going to ascend _before they do_. 16:21 <@Winsalot> Already did 😃 16:22 <@Winsalot> Anyway, playing non-priest after a while 16:22 <@Winsalot> Pretty hard when I dont have spell of identify and intristic BUC identification 😃 16:22 There are altars. 16:23 <@Winsalot> Noticed, that I can sometimes identify cursed items when they are dropped by monsters 16:23 <@Winsalot> Is that consistent? 16:23 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Croesus, on T:78983 16:23 Well. 16:23 <@Winsalot> I know about altars, just always forget to use them 16:23 !tell rikersan I fixed the fatal bug that trashed saves in dnethack! Play DNHslex now! *bundlebundlebundle* ♥ Now it'll be a whole lot less crashy than you claimed 3.15.2 is! 16:23 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 16:24 I mean, depending on role it's theoretically possible to get no altars at all until the Sanctum, but only if the ones in Minetown, the Valley, and Orcus Town are destroyed in bones. 16:24 Which would be quite a coincidence. 16:24 <@Winsalot> Nah, I already found altar before sokoban 16:24 None until the Valley only requires the Minetown altar to be destroyed in bones, which is fairly rare but can happen. 16:24 (And it requires no random ones, which definitely happens.) 16:26 <@Winsalot> I mean, if I see monster wearing item, do I always know it's cursed? 16:26 <@Winsalot> Like is it safe to wear equipment dropped by appropriate monsters 16:27 Ah, that. 16:28 You only know the item is cursed if you _see_ the monster put it on, I think. 16:28 If the monster already has it on before you see them, you might not know. 16:28 Or if they're just carrying it. Or death-drop it. 16:28 You can of course pet-test things to see if they're cursed. 16:32 <@Winsalot> I don't think I've ever been killed like this before... 16:32 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:81399 16:33 @Winsalot welcome to the club 16:33 K2: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-04-06 16:13 EDT: while troubleshooting the error that trashes dnethack savegames, I discovered an unrelated error with slex's autorecover feature. Hotfix is on the slex-2.1.7 branch again. I'm hoping it can be applied cleanly, as it will probably cause the recover utility to be recompiled. 16:35 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:81549 16:35 <@Winsalot> omfg, This must be the first death like this as well. 16:40 <[Demo]> oh hey i found a good tshirt quote 16:40 <[Demo]> its actually aweful and the english syntax is shit, nevermind 16:44 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:29765 16:44 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:29766 16:53 -!- Tariru has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:57 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:81869 16:58 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought 17:06 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:08 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:82209 17:10 [hdf-us] [slex] ttc1401 (Val Tro Mal Law), 14785 points, T:2658, quit 17:10 -!- Tariru has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10 -!- Tariru_ has joined #hardfought 17:11 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:82218 17:15 -!- Tariru_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:22 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:26 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed Orcus, on T:30331 17:26 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought 17:27 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:30 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:82397 17:33 -!- Tariru_ has joined #hardfought 17:33 Should I try the recovery, or wait on it? 17:34 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:82430 17:34 [hdf-us] [slex] ttc1401 (Gol Tro Mal Law) averted death, on T:2505 17:35 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:82448 17:35 [hdf-us] [slex] ttc1401 (Gol Tro Mal Law), 5881 points, T:2510, quit 17:35 -!- Tariru has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:35 -!- Tariru_ is now known as Tariru 17:36 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:82462 17:36 -!- Tariru has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought 17:37 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:82477 17:40 -!- Tariru has quit [Client Quit] 17:40 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 2772861 points, T:82493, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/G/Grasshopper/nhdev/dumplog/1522088886.nhdev.txt 17:41 ... and so it was written in the Book of Grasshopper... 17:41 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought 17:41 \o/ 17:41 congrats Grasshopper! 17:41 now give xnethack a run through :P 17:43 heh, seems to be the done thing nowadays 17:44 thanks K2 17:44 I'll go grab a quick swim instead for now ;> 17:48 [hdf-us] [un] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Croesus, on T:36359 17:49 :P 17:51 What's happening with the Slex auto recovery at the moment? 17:52 Just had it crash on me while trying to resume a game. Should I wait for Amy's update on the recoverer before trying it? 17:54 <[Demo]> Nobody but amy would know and i think she went to sleep and nobody wants to be responsible in part for the demise of your run 17:55 hold on 17:55 she just put out a patch to auto recover 17:56 <[Demo]> k2 to the rescue! 17:57 Tariru - dont try to load your game til I say please 17:57 Alright, no problem. 17:58 Tariru ok give it a go 18:00 Well, it said recovery was successful, but still crashed when it tried to resume. 18:00 ok 18:00 one sec 18:00 Guess we'll probably need Amy for this? 18:00 maybe 18:03 Tariru this issue with recover in slex was that it couldnt handle the extra levels amy had made 18:03 she just pacthed it recently 18:03 try it again please 18:04 Got a recovery failed this time. 18:04 ok... expected that. now lets see if the new recovery code works 18:07 hmm 18:08 might need amy 18:08 trying a couple other things 18:09 K2: recovery will mess up the save pre-patch 18:09 Tariru before now, when is the last time you played? 18:09 so if Tariru did that, I think you might need to go to a backup... check with la 18:09 LarienTelrunya 18:10 Last time I played was probably a bit less than an hour ago. 18:10 ok 18:11 last backup i have for you thats untouched by all this is from 7:58pm last night EST 18:11 [hdf-us] [un] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Juiblex, on T:38088 18:11 every time you've tried to play now, dgl makes a backup but it overwrites that backup everytime 18:12 I won't have lost too much since then, so it isn't so bad. 18:12 FIQ: every backup would be a pre-patch backup 18:12 as i just patched slex (us server) just a few min ago 18:12 are you implying that her patch is a save breaker? 18:13 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Rog Hum Fem Cha) wished for "magic marker", on T:72711 18:13 K2: no I am not 18:14 I am saying that the *recover* utility is broken pre-patch 18:14 well thats obvious 18:15 but its using the new patched recovery binary now 18:15 but I'm not sure if loading might be too, because the loading of NH saves go through a function called recover for whatever reason... 18:15 hmm 18:15 one sec 18:16 ahh, apparently the error is in recover.c 18:16 that is just the recover utility 18:16 so save/load should be OK 18:18 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Rog Hum Fem Cha) wished for "3 scrolls of genocide", on T:72798 18:20 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Rog Hum Fem Cha) genocided class R, on T:72800 18:21 the recover program for slex cant change directories 18:21 wtf lol 18:22 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22 whatever file you point it to, it thinks its a directory 18:26 Tariru - we'll have to wait on amy i'm afraid 18:26 your save and recover files are still present 18:26 No problem. 18:26 I'll be on a train half of tomorrow anyway. 18:26 just made a second backup of the daily backup for you from last night 18:27 as well as the one right now 18:27 so worst case scenario, there's still a backup that goes back to less than 24 hrs ago 18:27 Good to have a fallback. 18:27 yup 18:28 Does the game dump any info about what caused the crash in the first place? 18:28 !tell LarienTelrunya issue with your new recover binary for slex 18:28 Will do, K2! 18:28 lemme look 18:29 unfortunately no 18:30 oh hey 18:30 perhaps 18:31 yeah i have a coredump dated just a few min ago for slex 18:43 !tell LarienTelrunya Tariru's crash that we cant recover - http://termbin.com/1g23 18:43 Will do, K2! 18:44 had to releard how to use apport-retrace and gdb 18:44 *relearn 18:45 been awhile 18:45 [hdf-us] [un] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Asmodeus, on T:39650 18:53 !rng hack around centered minetown levels terribly | do it properly in the level compiler 18:53 aosdict: do it properly in the level compiler 18:53 <[Demo]> owned 18:54 K2: That is the wrong core dump I think? 18:54 Looks like it is failing to reload a level from save 18:54 I mean, the hack would only break if COLNO or ROWNO were ever changed. 18:55 Is it likely that that will ever happen? 18:55 so that would be after the botched recover 18:55 aosdict: No 18:55 FIQ: did you see what I was talking about with this obstacle earlier? 18:55 no 18:56 FIQ: its the .crash file generated by slex segfaulting 18:56 K2: yeah, but 18:56 its the only dump available 18:56 Tariru managed to recover earlier and it crashed after the botched recover 18:56 sometimes slex will generate a file called 'core' 18:56 yeah 18:56 a core dump 18:56 but that didnt happen in tariru's case 18:56 <@mtf> oh no slex bugs? 18:56 that is technically not slex making it btw 18:56 but the OS 18:56 i know 18:56 <[Demo]> wow, slex having bugs breaking users saves? 18:57 <[Demo]> how preposterous 18:57 what i put on termbin was the only thing available 18:57 K2: ok 18:57 FIQ: so create_room takes an x and y coordinate, but they don't represent absolute screen coordinates. They represent multiples of COLNO-5. The only time this is ever used is for several Minetown variants, with (3,3 18:57 ), to center the large room in the level. 18:57 ... 18:57 <@mtf> I can only imagine slex bugs are like this, meaning gigantic: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNwHoPDRiD5t2wVUcgYEsd37GW4Js2NxadeqKLHOy1_RWOD7a3uw 18:57 Why? 18:57 As in 18:57 Why on earth would it not take specific x and y? 18:58 (I believe you, it just baffles me) 18:58 The "hack" solution is to make it use specific x and y, and change mines.des to use the same coordinates they do now 18:58 so, would break if COLNO or ROWNO change 18:59 Why is using specific x/y a hack? 18:59 Just seems like an improvement to me, use real coordinates 18:59 It's a hack because it could possibly break Minetown. 18:59 If COLNO or ROWNO changed in the future. 18:59 hence why I asked 19:00 Yeah but that is going to break everything anyway 19:00 look at jonadab's experimental changes to COLNO/ROWNO 19:00 NH4 can actually do this without exploding 19:00 the only real issue being some quirks with level gen of special levels 19:00 I mean I think the point in nh3 is that you should still be able to change COLNO and ROWNO without exploding... 19:00 otherwise why use them 19:01 Pretty sure you can't because it references the value in some places 19:01 rather than the macro 19:01 IIRC there was a bunch of work ais did related to that way before I became a NetHack variant dev 19:02 alongside making 0,0 actually 0,0 19:02 OK, will make create_room take absolute coordinates. 19:02 IMO this is the better alternative 19:03 Hmm rn2(COLNO) should be appropriate for a random x-coordinate yes? 19:03 I forgot which one starts at 0 19:03 but assuming x is the one, then yes 19:04 Well technically the playing area starts at (3,3) 19:26 The major issues in Fourk currently locking ROWNO,COLNO in place are limitations of des/lev format. 19:26 Specifically, I need .des files to be able to specify "regardless of ROWNO/COLNO, this level is no larger than _this_ size." 19:27 And even if I spoke enough yacc to do that to levcomp, the .lev format itself will need to change. 19:27 -!- deadnoob_ has joined #hardfought 19:31 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:40 @v?unicorn 19:40 unicorn ~3~ Norn (@) | Lvl: 20 | Diff: 23 | Spd: 12 | Res: cold | Confers: nothing | MR: 80 | Generates: unique | AC: 0 | Attacks: 1d8 weapon physical, 1d6 weapon physical | Alignment: 0 | Flags: omnivore, nopoly, infravisible 19:40 ...no 19:40 @v?white unicorn 19:40 white unicorn (u) | Lvl: 4 | Diff: 6 | Spd: 24 | Res: poison | Confers: poison | MR: 70 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 2 | Attacks: 1d12 butt physical, 1d6 kick physical | Alignment: 7 | Flags: genocidable, herbivore, infravisible 19:43 [hdf-us] [fh] DwVal_0404 (adibis) (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed the ghost of ahrimen, the former Ninja, on T:1817 20:09 -!- MisteryMyra has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:12 -!- Tariru has quit [Quit: Tariru] 20:18 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:18 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 20:43 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52 [hdf-us] [xnh] krm26 (Kni Hum Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at her by some watery tart, on T:2536 20:56 [hdf-us] [xnh] Demo2 (Ran Elf Fem Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:12 20:56 [hdf-us] [xnh] Demo2 (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 64 points, T:21, killed by a falling object 21:02 -!- [Demo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:05 -!- [Demo] has joined #hardfought 21:13 -!- hpardis has joined #hardfought 21:13 lol [Demo] 21:14 names sting, dies 9 turns later 21:14 <[Demo]> wanted to see if it would say what the object was 21:15 <[Demo]> when it was an artifact 21:15 <[Demo]> and that was the best way to check 21:18 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:31702 21:19 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:31703 21:20 [hdf-us] [xnh] Demo2 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 794 points, T:636, killed by a hobgoblin 21:24 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 21:25 -!- MysteryMyra has joined #hardfought 21:25 [hdf-us] [xnh] Demo2 (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at her by some watery tart, on T:960 21:26 [hdf-us] [xnh] Demo2 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 924 points, T:974, killed by a falling object 21:28 [hdf-us] [xnh] Demo2 (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 81 points, T:55, killed by a grid bug 21:28 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) performed the invocation, on T:32037 21:29 [hdf-us] [xnh] Demo2 (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 82 points, T:153, killed by a newt 21:29 <[Demo]> how do i make it not snitch on games with under x turns? 21:30 [hdf-us] [xnh] Demo2 (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 50 points, T:38, zapped herself with a spell 21:30 [hdf-us] [xnh] Demo2 (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 54 points, T:58, killed by a goblin 21:30 <[Demo]> im bones loading 21:30 <[Demo]> its a new strategy i made up 21:30 <[Demo]> also its retarded 21:31 [hdf-us] [xnh] Demo2 (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 202 points, T:106, killed by a jackal 21:32 [Demo] use !setmintc 21:32 as in !setmintc 2000 to not report anything for you for 2000 turns or less 21:32 [hdf-us] [xnh] Demo2 (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 66 points, T:199, killed by a jackal 21:32 i set mine for 200 21:32 <[Demo]> ok lets see if i can hop in yeah im gonna do 200 21:33 -!- Demo2 has joined #hardfought 21:33 !setmintc 200 21:33 Demo2: Min reported turncount for demo2 set to 200 21:33 -!- Demo2 has quit [Client Quit] 21:34 -!- tubs has joined #hardfought 21:35 <[Demo]> the goal is free comrs for everyone 21:39 -!- tubs has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:40 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:32265 21:41 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:32281 21:54 FIQ: funny thing, whereas the ROOM coordinates are those weird psuedo-fifths, the SUBROOM coordinates are absolute (within the parent room). 21:55 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 22:05 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:33585 22:13 -!- bug_sniper_ has joined #hardfought 22:18 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 22:18 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 22:18 -!- bug_sniper_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:20 -!- bug_sniper_ has joined #hardfought 22:23 [hdf-us] [4k] kek (Mon Hum Mal Law), 14799 points, T:5133, killed by a quasit, while praying 22:24 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Rog Hum Fem Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:73320 22:29 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:34691 22:30 [hdf-us] [nd] Eleven (Ran Elf Fem Cha) killed Medusa, on T:37057 22:31 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:35 -!- mpt| has quit [] 22:37 <@Jendic> what's the command for fixing display bugs again? been a while since I've played 22:38 Ctrl-R? 22:38 <@Jendic> not working 22:38 what do you mean by display bugs 22:39 <@Jendic> ascii is looking strange--walls and corridors are generated with the same icon, and there's this odd corner with a dot in it that turns up occasionally 22:41 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the invisible Dispater, on T:35421 22:42 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:35450 22:46 <@Jendic> S, that was the key! Knew there was an easy fix, couldn't remember it for the life of me. 22:49 hmm 22:49 so 22:49 i have the AoY 22:50 back at dlvl 1 ready to enter the planes 22:50 <@Jendic> best of luck, mate 22:50 no ring of levitation nor free action 22:50 no wand of polymorph 22:50 ever 22:50 not a one of any of these in this game 22:50 -!- mpt| has joined #hardfought 22:50 -!- mpt| has quit [Client Quit] 22:50 <@Jendic> blessed levitation for air? 22:50 these resource shortages are very odd 22:51 i've done the planes without levitation before 22:51 <@Jendic> erm, blessed ! of levitation for air? 22:51 but its a pain in the ass 22:51 yeah i think i saved one potion 22:53 yup i have one blessed ! of lev 22:53 and about 80 assorted glass/gems to toss to move me along if lev wears out 22:53 and fireproof water walking boots for plane of fire 22:54 this will be interesting 22:57 :) 22:57 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) entered the Planes, on T:35781 22:58 K2: hopefully I'll have some form of gehennom rooms by the time you get there next 22:58 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:35782 22:58 neat 23:00 well unless you're planning on ascending and then tearing through the dungeon. May not finish it today. 23:00 i have drill this weekend, so after I ascend i wont be able to play again until sunday night/monday 23:01 awesome (for me keeping my promise that is ;) 23:06 promise was E word conduct? :) 23:06 no the promise was gehennom rooms by the next time you get there 23:12 :/ 23:18 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:35973 23:21 heh, gcc is thinking that LEFT means LEG and TOP means TOE 23:24 <@Jendic> Vorpal blade on astral, yeeek! Nice job dodging that bullet, k2 23:24 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed Famine, on T:36090 23:25 thanks! 23:25 yeah that could have been bad ;) 23:27 <@Jendic> is there anything even worth genociding once you reach astral? 23:27 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed Famine, on T:36124 23:27 <[Demo]> gogogo k2!! 23:27 <@Jendic> sure, there's always the purple worm trick 23:28 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the invisible Pestilence, on T:36143 23:29 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the invisible Pestilence, on T:36170 23:30 <@Jendic> props for not changing teams 23:30 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed Death, on T:36186 23:31 @Jendic Purple rain is one of K2's signature strategies. 23:31 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 2162552 points, T:36201, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/xnethack/dumplog/1522856173.xnh.txt 23:31 <@Jendic> Congrats! 23:31 \o/ 23:31 weee 23:31 <[Demo]> yeyyhha 23:31 thanks! 23:31 <@Jendic> aosdict: not this time, it would seem 23:32 i learned purple rain from Grasshopper heh 23:32 but lack of scrolls of genocide, didnt do it this go around 23:33 <[Demo]> im gonna do something better and greater 23:33 <[Demo]> and dumber 23:33 :) 23:33 <[Demo]> wait no someone named a rock mole after me once 23:33 <[Demo]> and it was there 23:33 <[Demo]> so nevermind 23:33 <[Demo]> wait ill use cursed scrolls of fire 23:33 <[Demo]> thats what 23:34 >:O I managed to panic the game with gehennom rooms 23:34 <[Demo]> id panic too if i had to look at shit old fuck code 23:34 Oh I see why. 23:34 not having free action... that almost did me in a couple times 23:35 <[Demo]> fraction 23:35 <@Jendic> that vorpal was +7 btw 23:35 but having conflict going at same time probably saved me 23:35 @Jendic oh wow 23:35 <@Jendic> conflict makes up for a lot of sins 23:35 lucky i didnt get hit 23:35 <[Demo]> christ 23:35 <[Demo]> if u dont use an aols ur bad 23:35 guess I should use maze0xy instead of mazexy. 23:35 cue mild FIQ aneurysm 23:35 reflection was more critical to have there [Demo] 23:36 i had three "oLS total, never put them on 23:36 aols saves you once, relfection saves you lots 23:36 <[Demo]> reflection has other sources 23:36 <@Jendic> not against vorpal, it don't! 23:36 <[Demo]> use them 23:36 <[Demo]> aols has one source 23:36 <[Demo]> u best be using that 23:37 <[Demo]> aols is like backing up ur data 23:37 heh 23:37 <[Demo]> if u dont do it and u lose shit, get fucking owned noob 23:37 i need an off site backup please 23:37 <@Jendic> that said, =oRef for life 23:37 here put this on... 23:37 <[Demo]> fuck i need to take backups 23:37 <@Jendic> survivor conduct best conduct 23:37 <[Demo]> i really need to right now and its stressing me the fuck out and its like shit man 23:38 [Demo] why do you not have auto backup script going 23:38 its easy to setup on both nix and windows 23:38 <[Demo]> because i want full disk images 23:38 -!- deadnoob_ is now known as deadnoob 23:38 clonezilla 23:38 <[Demo]> cant take it down 23:38 -!- deadnoob is now known as deadnoob_ 23:38 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 23:38 then rsync all the important stuff 23:38 "You drop a flint stone. You smell rotting flesh. You hear a ripping sound." 23:38 <[Demo]> i get really sad when it goes down 23:38 -!- deadnoob_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:39 <[Demo]> current system is neat 23:39 <[Demo]> i just do full disk backups of vms and the vm disks are set up as lvm disks on hosts 23:39 <[Demo]> so i just dd them onto the mounted backup drive 23:39 <[Demo]> but it helps for the vm to be shut down when thats happening 23:39 i use rsync on the server, robocopy on my windows desktop/laptop systems 23:40 veeam at work for the vm's (to an exagrid) 23:40 <[Demo]> ive only had to call upon the backup gods a few times in the last year 23:40 <[Demo]> so thats been good 23:40 ;) 23:40 <[Demo]> knock on wood 23:42 ok bed time 23:42 gnite all 23:42 <[Demo]> this vm here that i need to back up the most just went down because i blame shitware for being shit but like i need to back it up and man fuck. i sh--- same 23:42 <[Demo]> i cant even make coherent sentences 23:42 <[Demo]> good night 23:43 oh shit 23:43 i just realized 23:43 i just did a 2 streak in xnh 23:44 <[Demo]> !!nice 23:44 \o/ 23:44 <[Demo]> !streaks k2 23:44 <[Demo]> !streak k2 23:44 [Demo]: k2 Max[xnh]: 2 (2018-03-30 - 2018-04-06)(current). 23:44 <[Demo]> wowo 23:44 wow 23:44 2nd time ever i've done a streak 23:44 1st time was grunthack (also a short lived 2 streak) 23:49 ooh I'm generating rooms in mazes! 23:49 * aosdict is excited 23:49 <[Demo]> wow 23:49 <[Demo]> christ i need to sleep but i gotta say 23:50 only problem is they sometimes seem to connect to the maze... that shouldn't currently happen 23:50 <[Demo]> if i was a nice maze and someone stuck a room in me id be pretty bummed out 23:50 <[Demo]> im just saying 23:50 <[Demo]> sometimes u gotta think from the mazes perspective 23:50 #MazeRights 23:54 oh I see why they're randomly connecting 23:54 paxed and his dead-end-removal shenanigans