00:05 -!- emar has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:11 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 00:51 [hdf-us] [fh] Blez (Blue) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 27456 points, T:743, quit 00:54 -!- _catalyst_ has joined #hardfought 00:58 [hdf-us] [nh4] blue (Blue) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 26400 points, T:1452, killed by a pony 01:01 [hdf-us] [nh4] Wilhelm (Blue) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 23906 points, T:490, quit 01:05 [hdf-us] [nh4] Valkyrie (Blue) (Val Dwa Fem Law), 6510 points, T:12, escaped 01:08 [hdf-us] [nh4] Valkyrie (Blue) (Val Dwa Fem Law), 3246 points, T:5, escaped 01:12 -!- hf_guest_33419 has joined #hardfought 01:19 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:19 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 01:19 [hdf-us] [nh4] Valkyrie (Blue) (Val Dwa Fem Law), 34624 points, T:1989, quit 01:23 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:29 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:36 -!- hf_guest_33419 has quit [Quit: *poof*] 01:37 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:57 -!- _catalyst_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:04 -!- _catalyst_ has joined #hardfought 02:14 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:30 [hdf-us] [nh4] Valk (Blue) (Val Dwa Fem Law), 48120 points, T:2506, killed by a winter wolf cub, while praying 02:46 [hdf-us] [nh4] Valk (Blue) (Val Dwa Fem Law), 12312 points, T:217, quit 02:46 -!- _catalyst_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:51 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 02:51 -!- stenno is now known as Guest73904 02:56 -!- Guest73904 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:01 [hdf-us] [dyn] Heeya (ahrimen) (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1214 points, T:1566, killed by a gray unicorn 03:06 -!- deadnoob_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:52 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 03:52 -!- stenno is now known as Guest2496 03:56 -!- Guest2496 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] fatheals (Pri Hlf Mal Cha), 87 points, T:797, killed by a newt 04:07 hi 04:07 Hello FIQ, Welcome to #hardfought 04:11 A gush of water hits Miezekatze on the pawed! 04:11 on the WHAT? 04:12 raisse: oh your cat has a German name too? mine is called "Katzenhund" ("cat dog", i.e. a cat that behaves like a dog) :D 04:12 xnh? 04:13 yes 04:13 LarienTelrunya: my first cat has a Dutch name, Poes (which also means 'kitty', like Miezekatze) 04:14 ah I see :) 04:15 "pawed" sounds like the game incorrectly uses body_part(HANDED) instead of body_part(HAND) 04:15 yes 04:17 trap.c only uses HEAD and ARM though 04:21 weird, the game should say "forelimb" or "foreleg" 04:24 I'd prefer "front paw" for cats:-) 04:24 but not "pawed" obviously 04:26 LarienTelrunya: you are checking xnh, right 04:26 oh this looks like a off by one error to me 04:26 FIQ: yes 04:26 off by 1 error? 04:26 where 04:26 it actually wants to say that the cat got hit on the head, and in hack.h, HEAD comes directly after HANDED 04:27 lol 04:29 think I found it, xnethack somehow added NO_PART = 0 in enum bodypart_types (and that's not present in the regular nethack repo) 04:29 so probably all other messages about body parts are similarly off 04:29 i.e. if you trigger a rock trap in xnethack now, the rock probably hits you on the handed :P 04:31 omg magic traps in xnethack look like polymorph traps now??? 04:31 why oh why make the game extra confusing, aosdict :P 04:39 aosdict: ^ LarienTelrunya found a bug in your code 04:39 well it's not as bad as I thought, "weapon in hand" or "you are empty-handed" still display correctly 04:39 maybe it only affects monsters? 04:39 who knows 04:40 but mbodypart and body_part is 2 functions 04:40 it is possible that only one of them works 04:40 too bad I can't wizmode xnethack, or I could zap a gnome/dwarf/elf/whatever with probing and see if the equipment shows up with the correct slots 04:41 well maybe I can if I startscum wizards 04:41 would require a lot of startscumming... 04:42 wait, did someone make it so that xnethack wizards receive no random starting wand at all 04:42 man... 04:43 I would certainly have gotten probing on my first try, another sign that the xnethack author hates me, as if spontaneously updating versions and erasing a far-progressed save wasn't enough :P 04:44 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 04:44 -!- tubs has joined #hardfought 04:44 -!- stenno is now known as Guest95832 04:46 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 04:46 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 04:58 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 05:01 whee! down with Rodney! 05:06 goodness, how much did he ask? 05:06 LarienTelrunya: xnh wizards get only spellbooks now 05:07 guaranteed force bolt and magic missile, and two others 05:07 heh, I prefer slex wizards, they get force bolt and three others plus also scroll/potion/ring/wand :D 05:11 that's the same kit as FIQHack I think 05:11 assuming they also retain their staff and CoMR 05:15 [hdf-us] [fh] Erotic Thai Bitch (AmyBSOD) (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 5168 points, T:217, killed by a jackal called "where are mah starting items" 05:18 Hi there, which option can I turn off in dNethack to displace friendlies when I move onto them, rather than chatting? 05:19 tubs: set attack_mode to ask (I had that problem too, why anyone would make it use a turn by default would be beyond me but that's what it's like in dnethack) 05:20 LarienTelrunya: no that will not work 05:20 tubs: Only xNetHack and FIQHack allows you to displace peaceful creatures 05:21 Blah, thanks, so I just need to use 'm' then? 05:21 m will not displace peacefuls 05:21 if it does, that is a bug 05:22 -!- hpardis has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:22 Okey dokey, thanks. :) 05:23 FIQ: why not? I set it to ask in dnhslex and haven't had problems with bumping into peacefuls using up a turn since :P 05:23 -!- Guest95832 has quit [Changing host] 05:23 -!- Guest95832 has joined #hardfought 05:23 -!- Guest95832 is now known as stenno 05:24 LarienTelrunya: re-read the question again 05:24 maybe you will see the problem 05:25 well yeah it won't let him displace monsters, but it fixes the biggest problem which is that bumping into peacefuls wastes a turn 05:25 that is only a problem according to you 05:25 oh yeah that reminds me 05:25 aosdict: tungtn has a PR that adds attack_mode for 3.6.x 05:26 I'd appreciate if you merged it into xnh :-) 05:27 OMG, hopefully it doesn't have the *****-**** "the gnome grunts and you just wasted a turn" as the default! 05:28 FIQ: I'm not paranoid, you and the other members of the nethack variant-making cartel are really after my sanity by trying to make variants so hair-tearingly annoying that I just HAVE to bitch about them. There's no other choice! :P 05:28 it should be the default, yes, I agree 05:28 LarienTelrunya: either that, or you are in the minority 05:29 also this is NH3 we're talking about 05:29 it even has rc file editing 05:29 it would be easy for you to turn it back to how it is usually 05:29 the crappy old way 05:29 yeah but why not make the defaults sane? the average joe doesn't bother with editing the rcfile, so IMHO the defaults should not screw everyone over who doesn't bother editing them 05:30 *cough*autopickup*cough* 05:30 it is likely that you are in teh minority here 05:30 since you have been the only one complaining so far 05:30 "You have extreme difficulty lifting E - an ogre corpse. You stagger under your heavy load. Movement is very hard. The killer bee stings! The killer bee stings! The killer bee stings! The killer bee stings! The sting was poisoned! You die..." 05:31 it is true that NH3 defaults is generally unreasonable 05:31 but attack_mode:chat being the default is good IMO 05:31 it is like that i nfiqhack too, I haven't seen you complain 05:31 (and I have seen you complain about plenty of things in FIQHack) 05:31 ugh 05:32 shows how long I didn't play FIQhack 05:32 and NH4 in general has that for always-peacefuls 05:32 dynahack works like dnh here 05:32 with the same defaults 05:32 in fact, I ascended fourk a while ago... did I really just make a mental note that peaceful monsters will steal turns and make extra sure not to bump into them? 05:33 why didn't I bitch about it back then? guess I have to catch up on that now :P 05:33 actually 05:33 I forgot 05:33 but FIQHack has since made it so that you can just displace everyone 05:33 but before that 05:33 it worked like dnh defaults 05:34 EPI: reverse-peaceful monsters. You can't attack them, but they attack you. 05:35 Needless to say, they can be generated with reflection and the ability to catch thrown/fired objects, including projectile weapons. 05:37 jonadab: sorry for not bitching about it earlier, I'm sure you'll appreciate it if I do so now :D 05:37 Hmm, did anyone else initially misread that as cone-headed? 05:37 but anyway, time to eat, bbl 05:37 jonadab: yes 05:39 when tungtn makes a PR, the devteam will make the opposite 05:39 only if both he and I do it 05:41 jonadab: what if you could convince peacefuls to join your cause 05:41 based on your cha and level? 05:41 vs the opponent's level and alignment 05:42 (lawfuls trying to recruit chaotics giving a huge penalty to the chance) 05:42 and failing might either: do nothing, or make the creature outright hostile 05:43 YANI ^ 05:43 like in heroes of might and magic 05:43 never played that game 05:44 when a hero and his army meets a very small group, the group might either flee, or join the army 05:44 very small, weak group of npc monsters* 05:44 ah 06:04 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:23 !tell K2 players are now allowed to covetous-warp 06:23 Will do, FIQ! 06:24 this will remain a thing until I revise how covetousness works 06:24 more fair that way 06:25 !tell Chris_ANG why is there no vaapad lightsaber form :D 06:25 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 06:25 aren't they named like form I, II, III, etc? 06:25 maybe one of them is supposed to be it 06:26 I (Shii-Cho) · II (Makashi) · III (Soresu) · IV (Ataru) · V (Shien / Djem So) · VI (Niman) · VII (Juyo / Vaapad) 06:26 all the others are in dnethack but vaapad is not :D 06:27 ah 06:27 and I'm planning to add the lightsaber forms to slex (including vaapad of course), but with a slightly different implementation than dnethack :P 06:28 is there a reason he didn't include it? 06:28 a slexy reason 06:29 no idea, that's why I want to ask Chris 06:30 do you also have "no idea" about why I wouldn't want to add uvm seduction 06:31 lol, you told me why you don't want to 06:31 <[Demo]> fleecy seduction 06:32 LarienTelrunya: but before I did 06:34 well before you did I just assumed that it was because of prudery 06:34 and after? 06:35 after you did I'm now certain that prudery was the reason :P 06:35 :P 06:35 <[Demo]> has tariru beat slex yet? 06:37 [Demo]: he's a bit more than a quarter of the way there I think 06:37 i.e. level 53 or something, the amulet is on 100 and then there's the yendorian tower with another 100 levels 06:37 <[Demo]> wow 06:37 <[Demo]> why do you need to go another 100? 06:38 because LarienTelrunya wants to see you suffer? 06:38 because the amulet has to be imbued before the ascension run starts 06:38 either way it shouldn't be too bad 06:38 you don't really need the loot 06:38 so you should just be able to "dive" 06:38 FIQ: the tower goes upward, so you can't just dig down :D 06:39 <[Demo]> can you dig down to get back? 06:39 LarienTelrunya: hence "dive" 06:39 yes, but some of the levels may have undiggable floor 06:39 like 06:39 go < as you find them 06:39 rather than lingering for loot 06:39 Can I ask what a jackal mask in dnethack does, I can't find anything on the wiki? 06:39 I hink the tower is room-and-corridor 06:39 *think 06:40 FIQ: sure, but you'd better bring plenty of magic mapping too, because there's three yellow staircases on the tower and you need to find every single one to imbue the amulet. And they can be on any random level of the tower. 06:40 so it shouldn't be as bad as Gehennom 06:40 LarienTelrunya: Ah, ok, good to know 06:40 You'd want the spell then 06:40 <[Demo]> christ 06:40 <[Demo]> that's pretty shitty 06:40 [Demo]: slex is meant to be suffered 06:41 LarienTelrunya is a masochist, literally 06:41 :D 06:41 maybe I should also mention that the magic mapping spell replicates the effect of a confused scroll of magic mapping, i.e. it only reveals a few random tiles per cast (I think every tile has a 1 in 7 chance of being revealed) 06:41 so you're gonna be doing a lot of casting! 06:41 is this fullsize mazes 06:42 the yendorian tower is mazes, demon lairs (with some of the demon lords that you didn't encounter in Gehennom) and lots of other random special levels 06:42 ok 06:42 some of those special levels have the "no magical mapping" flag :D 06:43 since Tariru is playing unspoiled, he will, if he makes it that far, die to the elder priest 06:43 <[Demo]> elder priest is optional 06:44 in what way 06:44 the slex one is buffed 06:44 compared to dnh 06:44 <[Demo]> he has his own level 06:44 <[Demo]> with some gay robes 06:44 ah 06:44 <[Demo]> it's a branch I think 06:44 <[Demo]> no amulet there 06:44 the elder priest is at the top of the yendorian tower in a temple 06:44 the priest on the sanctum is still just a plain high priest 06:45 yeah but the yendorian tower is mandatory 06:45 <[Demo]> Amy have you won slex with the 200 some levels? 06:45 she has not 06:45 <[Demo]> his fight is avoidable I think 06:46 yes, but you only need the three yellow staircases in the tower, so unless one spawns on the top level inside the temple (which should be banned due to the BRANCH settings), you don't ever have to go in there 06:46 bhaak: I would like to suggest a slight amendment to kotw. Only variants that have at least a single victory during the month must be won 06:46 <[Demo]> kotw? 06:47 This should avoid the goal from requiring you to beat variants that take 3 weeks to win 06:47 alternate suggestion: extend junethack's duration to 2 months :D 06:47 after all, the # of participating variants keeps going up 06:47 (at least if xnethack will be part of it) 06:48 <[Demo]> junelyhack 06:49 and for crying out loud, I'd have gotten the first junethack slexcension last year if the tournament had lasted just a few days longer :( 06:49 as it was, I had to suicide that barb on the 30th, and after the tournament had officially ended, restore it from a backup 06:50 and ended up ascending 06:50 <[Demo]> I'd like to see someone ascend slex on a public server with a memory corruption bug 06:50 I was slightly miffed on missing out on kotw after 2016 junethack 06:51 I won all the variants 06:51 except for slex 06:51 which I gave a honest attempt to as well 06:51 git gud at slex then :D 06:51 got to castle 06:51 there was no wand of wishing 06:51 and I still required stuf 06:51 f 06:51 suicided at that point 06:51 <[Demo]> that happened to me in like fourk? 06:51 it was not a fun experience 06:51 but at least I tried 06:51 well slex can be won without wishes, I have two wishless slexcensions (which is notably two more than I have wishless non-slex-censions) 06:52 [Demo]: at least 4k gives you some wishes 06:52 slex gave me none whatsoever 06:52 <[Demo]> ah oh well 06:52 4k also has 3 guranteed scrolls of wishing 06:52 in Gehennom 06:52 slex doesn't 06:52 <[Demo]> what good are wishes in slex? 06:52 <[Demo]> you don't know what to wish for 06:52 <[Demo]> there's too much shit 06:52 artifacts 06:52 like dnh 06:52 -!- tubs has quit [Quit: *poof*] 06:52 <[Demo]> too many to know what to want 06:53 just consider what you need/want 06:53 and filter based on that 06:53 <[Demo]> Yeah fair 06:57 I will say one thing 06:57 Tariru has proven that slex is winnable with skill consistently 06:57 I have no idea how though 06:57 what, he did? he still has plenty of dungeon left to go 06:58 Need to look at his ttyrec once he's done 06:58 LarienTelrunya: He has gotten to lategame 06:58 That is far enough that luck shouldn't be a factor anymore 06:58 slex has a ton of BS 06:58 although I'm also surprised that after 65k turns and 53 dungeon levels he still has not complained about one single thing being unfair 06:58 but almost everything is avoidable 06:58 Tariru doesn't do that 06:59 hmm, speaking of which, maybe I should download his ttyrecs because I might also want to watch them ;) 06:59 too bad there's no easy way to download them in bulk 07:07 Death rises from the dead! 07:08 somehow, I feel that message should be different 07:08 hmm 07:08 for consistency 07:08 you should also rise from the dead 07:08 after 12 or so turns 07:08 but that wouldn't make for a very exciting game, would it? :-) 07:09 clearly, the amulet of life saving should be delayed by those 12 or so turns if you're wearing one on astral :P 07:09 gives player monsters time to steal the ammy 07:09 Death rises from a short nap! 07:09 K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-28 06:23 EDT: players are now allowed to covetous-warp 07:09 and ascend 07:09 -!- emar has joined #hardfought 07:10 and EPI: player life saving on astral is delayed by as long as it would normally take for a rider to resurrect and the monsters will try their best to empty all sources of create monster to make sure you have nowhere to resurrect to, which kills you for real. 07:10 FIQ: explain pelase 07:10 please 07:10 K2: When polymorphed into a covetous monster, you can #monster to covetous-warp 07:10 oh i see 07:10 This allows a controlled teleportation bypassing teleport restrictions 07:11 It does not work in the endgame 07:11 FIQ: does it also not work for the guaranteed arch-lich on astral? :P 07:11 FIQhack updated (us and eu) 07:11 And has a cooldown of 500 turns 07:12 LarienTelrunya: /* TODO: also restrict monsters */ 07:12 can Rodney still covetous-warp in FIQhack's endgame? if yes, he is a filthy cheat0r :P 07:12 :D 07:15 \o/ 07:18 K2: pushed fix: monsters are now bound by the same restrictions on warping as players 07:18 in addition to this, player warping is now a free action 07:18 consistent to monsters 07:19 FIQhack updated (us and eu) 07:19 off to work 07:20 this means warping should now be mostly symmetric 07:23 <[Demo]> yey 07:25 LarienTelrunya: [backscroll] Magic traps shouldn't look like polymorph traps, it is a bug if so. 07:26 gah, and of course I quit the xnh game where I had what looked like a bright green polymorph trap 07:26 LarienTelrunya: blame FIQ for the concept of removing wizard starting wands/scrolls/potions/rings. Blame me for trying it out. 07:26 but which was actually a bright green magic trap 07:26 LarienTelrunya: also it should be pretty easy to wizmode xnh... the build process is identical to vanilla 07:27 meh 07:27 * LarienTelrunya likes precompiled windows binaries ;) 07:27 FIQ: what is attack_mode? 07:27 wow xnethack has paranoid traps? :) 07:28 aosdict: attack_mode is an option that changes the way you interact iwth peacefuls 07:29 I realize now that the suggestion is entirely pointless 07:29 because in xnh you just displace peacefuls 07:29 like in FIQHack 07:32 can you attack peacefuls anyway if you want? 07:32 i guess with f ? 07:33 or F 07:33 K2: going to add that "short nap" thing to xnh 07:33 hmm, weird, now I got a magic trap in xnethack and it was blue like I'd expect 07:35 but in https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/B/BSOD2/xnethack/ttyrec/2018-03-28.08:30:24.ttyrec.gz the magic trap was bright green 07:35 LarienTelrunya: a bright green magic trap would be a bug but I get a blue one 07:35 LarienTelrunya: was this a saved game from a couple weeks ago or more 07:35 no, this was from today 07:36 the trap comes at T:43 07:36 ttyrecs are in black and white though :{ 07:36 they're not 07:36 at least on my screen (I use termplay) it has colors 07:36 anyway, there was a bright green amulet on that tile, that might be the reason 07:37 oooh 07:37 that may indeed be a bug 07:37 xnethack is really strange regarding colors 07:37 ^^ 07:37 also that bright green amulet didn't show up as an item that can be picked up 07:38 YANI (combat system related): wielding a 1h weapon with a bare off-hand double-applies your Str bonus (but not weapon damage or anything else). 07:38 LarienTelrunya: that's because xnh uses " for engravings as well 07:38 anything that isn't a cyan " is an engraving 07:38 yes, and it's ultra misleading :P 07:38 if you don't like it, you can set S_engraving in your rc 07:39 you can even set it to . 07:39 ok yes there is a display bug here 07:40 (regarding miscolored traps) 07:40 thanks LarienTelrunya 07:40 :) 07:43 hm, a thiefstone for sale in a shop 07:43 would I be accused of shoplifting if I pick it up? 07:43 I believe so. 07:43 ugh, that could be bad 07:43 Well, it is definitely cursed, so if you have a magic item to steal, it will steal it but it will also steal itself 07:44 so not shoplifting, but you'll be expected to pay for it 07:44 ah 07:44 that could still be bad, since I don't have much money at the moment 07:44 same as if you teleported an item out of the shop I think 07:45 I have enough things to sell though, I'm gonna try it 07:45 yes, that's what happened... it grabbed a scroll and buggered off 07:46 and now I owe 80 zorks 07:49 elenmirie: Drop credit for it 07:49 then pick it up 07:49 FIQ: You don't need to do with credit. 07:49 Oh right 07:49 You can just pay afterwards. 07:49 That is if you teleport 07:49 not items 07:50 I couldn't find it... there must be a vault on that level 07:50 -!- ais523_ has joined #hardfought 07:50 -!- ais523_ is now known as ais523 07:50 Beholder: messages? 07:50 ais523: Message from jonadab at 2018-03-20 12:39 EDT: YANI: leprechauns are, a percentage of the time, generated with a sack of gold, rather than just loose gold in inventory. 07:50 ais523: Message from @mtf at 2018-03-22 14:10 EDT: Yea, if you're interested in learning more about ADOM, here's a link to my twitch: https://twitch.tv/mtf39 . I have a bunch of wins from a bunch of different roguelikes posted, but ADOM is clearly my favorite to stream 😃 07:50 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-23 07:17 EDT: If I wnoutrefresh a window and later destroy it, will the content still be visible in a doupdate? 07:50 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-23 09:44 EDT: Your movement system rewrite doesn't play nice with level changes. For one, monsters get to move on level creation. Another issue is that you can cause monsters to be frozen in time in a level while others move by navigating stairs repeatedly 07:50 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-23 09:49 EDT: I think the only feasible solution to the latter problem, if I understand the new system correctly, is to give each level a seperate "flags.actions" 07:50 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-26 06:49 EDT: the results of (un)block_point(y,x) isn't saved in the save file, this might be related to why you have to reset the vision system on a gamestate jump 07:50 ais523: Message from aosdict at 2018-03-26 17:38 EDT: What are your thoughts on headroom in nethack as it relates to polypiling? 07:50 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-27 18:15 EDT: why is NH4 and all its derivatives generating far easier monsters than vanilla for the entire earlygame? 07:50 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-27 18:30 EDT: Also, your XL is supposed to be ignored on level gen. It isn't 07:50 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-27 18:56 EDT: More issues: rndmonst_inner -> qt_montype -> mkclass -> rndmonst_inner -> ... 07:50 wow 07:50 -!- ais523 is now known as ais523_ 07:50 oh god 07:50 sorry for the spam 07:51 wnoutrefresh copies the current contents of a window to the screen, you can delete the window after that 07:51 cool, good to know 07:51 in libuncursed2 I'm using the term "buffer" rather than "window", it makes it much clearer what they do 07:51 how much progress is there on libuncursed2? 07:52 I've mostly been writing documentation 07:52 rather than code 07:52 ah 07:52 NH4 generates easier monsters than vanilla because of Nitro's monster/level generation changes 07:52 those monster generation tells arised from a talk I, stenno and others had yesterday 07:52 yeah but it's far, far easier 07:52 so it needs an xlevel-independent formula 07:52 there is no reason for this 07:52 to avoid annoying people I made it assume you were xlevel 1 throughout most of the early game 07:53 however that should only affect monsters that generate with the level, most monsters generate later 07:53 basically the game generates monsters as if you're XL1 for the entire earlygame 07:53 it is possible that something is broken; it's happened before 07:53 * ais523_ vaguely remembers an incident in which one of the Quests would generate only /yellow/ dragons 07:53 ahh yes 07:53 ais523_: you may want to look at this 07:54 http://home.fiq.se/hea_xl1.png 07:54 http://home.fiq.se/hea_xl14.png 07:54 http://home.fiq.se/hea_xl30.png 07:54 not while I'm at work 07:54 sorry 07:54 the first picture show no dragons 07:54 the second shows 1 07:54 the 3rd shows 3 07:54 on level gen 07:54 of Home:1 07:54 of the healer quest 07:54 at XL1, XL14 and XL30 respectively 07:55 isn't the first level of the healer quest supposed to always have 5 random D? 07:55 LarienTelrunya: NH4 special level monster generation is broken 07:55 oh 07:55 LarienTelrunya: "random monster of a specific monster letter" has been a cause for concern in NH4 for a while 07:55 @luxidream and @mtf complained to me that fort ludios wasn't generating any dragons 07:56 looking into it shows that issues are bigger than that 07:56 never noticed during my nh4 ascensions 07:56 the whole "master mind flayers in the Mines are only rare, rather than extremely rare like they should be" thing 07:56 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Mon Elf Fem Cha) received advice from The Oracle, on T:2672 07:56 ais523_: there is also a recursive loop that I think completely breaks quest monster generation in particular (last tell) 07:56 maybe the minesflayer fix ended up impacting other similar situations? 07:56 I don't think NH4 generates minesflayer anymore 07:56 *at all* 07:56 FIQ: I'm concerned about mkclass being involved in that 07:56 also, when there's user-hostile bugs like the minesflayer one, I tend to overcorrect 07:57 so they might have been disabled intentionally, not sure though 07:57 it was a while back 07:57 So minesflayers are in fact intended? I thought that sort of "small chance the game decides to be a total jerk and give you something you can't beat" was slex-like philosophy. 07:57 aosdict: I am pretty sure it is intended... 07:57 I think it's unintended but I'm not sure 07:57 Which is why I proposed a "roll a random valid monster, if it's too hard, re-roll up to 5 times" 07:57 This would minimize but not eliminate the chance of them 07:58 Then again, vanilla and most variants preserve the poison instadeath. 07:58 it'd have been really easy to leave the level check off that routine by mistake 07:58 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Mon Elf Fem Cha), 40995 points, T:2883, killed by an ettin mummy 07:58 ais523_: but minesflayers are still rare 07:58 if there was no checks at all 07:58 they'd be just as common as dwarves 07:58 they aren't 07:58 In general, it's intended that you can occasionally get monsters that are a bit out of depth. But because of the huge difficulty jump in h from dwarf king to mind flayer, you can get them _really_ out of depth there. 07:58 I think the way the vanilla routine works is to start by calculating a base difficulty for the montser 07:58 then randomly upgrade it 07:59 but the upgrade can loop so you can end up with a maximal difficulty monster sometimes 07:59 jonadab: bugbear is between dwarf king and mind flayer 07:59 IMO, the correct solution is to introduce a couple of h in the difficulty 9-12 range. 07:59 FIQ: Is it? 07:59 IMO, the correct solution is to not make the generation chance of the OOD things depend on how many other entries are in between. 07:59 jonadab: currently, the Mines will never generate monsters harder than difficulty 6 07:59 on level gen 08:00 because ais523_ has set it to assume XL1 08:00 until dlvl12 08:00 FIQ: The wiki says bugbear is difficulty 5. 08:00 LarienTelrunya: agreed 08:00 @v?dwarf king 08:00 dwarf king (h) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 8 | Spd: 6 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 20 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 10 | Attacks: 2d6 weapon physical, 2d6 weapon physical | Alignment: 6 | Flags: genocidable, omnivore, tunnels, infravisible 08:00 @v?bugbear 08:00 bugbear (h) | Lvl: 3 | Diff: 5 | Spd: 9 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 5 | Attacks: 2d4 weapon physical | Alignment: -6 | Flags: genocidable, omnivore, infravisible 08:00 Because that way, monster classes with only few entries (e.g. L) have a much higher chance of such unusually out of depth spawns than ones with many entries. 08:00 Hmm ok 08:00 FIQ: to be honest the best solution would probably be to revert NitroHack migration 08:00 it causes /way/ more trouble than it's worth 08:00 ais523_: but 08:00 LarienTelrunya: jonadab's solution requires monster difficulties to stay balanced on a relatively linear scale. 08:00 (i.e. it causes a lot of trouble, and I'm not entirely sure it's worth anything) 08:00 that is broken 08:00 Which I don't like. 08:00 aosdict: exactly 08:00 like 08:00 in nitrohack it just crashes 08:01 in dynahack it generates a ton of errors but kind of works 08:01 in NH4, it can simply not happen 08:01 due to an unrelated bug I think 08:01 yes, the code a) has no real benefit, b) doesn't actually work, c) means you can't do things like scaling monster generation with a level to the player's xl 08:01 ais523_: Actually, that's a good point. With multi-rng, we don't _need_ to pregenerate levels as Thaler envisioned. 08:01 Seed tournaments were the motivation for that, I think. 08:01 slex's solution is much more elegant, when rolling for "monster of a specific class" it sets a maximum level that's usually just the current monster difficulty but can sometimes be higher. And then everything whose level doesn't exceed that maximum is eligible and everything above is not. 08:01 So players would get the same stuff on various levels. 08:01 ais523_: there is also another concern I have with pregenerating monsters 08:01 err, levels 08:01 artifacts 08:01 FIQ: I suspect the code isn't dead because I kept finding places where it crashed and having to fix them 08:01 interfering with artiwishing 08:01 But with multi-rng, they will anyway. 08:01 <[Demo]> wand of abortion 08:02 ais523_: level is NULL on level gen 08:02 yes 08:02 so you basically have the system turned on 08:02 but it's not used usefully? 08:02 but for its actual purpose 08:02 it doesn't work 08:02 right 08:02 I think I mentioned this a while back 08:02 trying to drop items through trap doors 08:02 and similar 08:02 simply doesn't do anything 08:02 K2: pushed a display bug fix 08:02 the items will just end up on top of the trap 08:02 and not drop 08:03 it's bizarre and I don't understand it 08:03 this is the only way to cause off-level gen in dynahack 08:03 the game will cry a lot about it 08:03 and give a ton of errors 08:03 but it will ultimately be generated 08:03 in nitrohack it will just crash the game 08:03 daniel_t never got instant monster migration working 08:03 in nh4... nothing happens 08:03 just instant item migration, at least it was implemented 08:04 it didn't actually work though 08:04 ais523_: I think he intended to pregenerate all levels at game start. 08:04 I kicked an item off into a hole once in nitrohack 08:04 Just never got around to it. 08:04 The game replied by segfaulting 08:04 I did a similar thing in dynahack castle (IIRC I killed something over the trap doors and the items dropped through the floor 08:05 jonadab: I don't, not sure thought 08:05 *though 08:05 I got a bunch of "Wraith has wrong difficulty?" or something, I don't remember the eror 08:05 I think he thought it'd be more elegant to not have a migrating monsters area 08:05 *error 08:05 and instead just put the monster into the level directly 08:05 (ditto items) 08:05 ais523_: I have no issues with this per se 08:05 But it is very poorly implemented 08:06 Well, I do have issues with it: artifact generation 08:06 yes, it's NitroHack code, so that isn't a surprise :-D 08:06 <[Demo]> I wanna be able to bomb the valley by dropping a shit ton of lit oil down the trap doors 08:06 That is my only real concern 08:06 ais523_: Also, I find the speed bug you introduced (mentioned in !tell) pretty amusing 08:06 Basically, because you only keep a global flags.actions 08:07 you can cause only a fraction of monsters to move 08:07 FIQ: YANI: artis on pregenerated levels that are just sitting around can successfully be wished for. It simply removes the arti from that level and gives it to you. 08:07 by stairdancing 08:07 FIQ: I'm not sure that's even broken 08:07 ais523_: Conflict, pets, etc 08:07 vanilla has a similar bug with much more dramatic effects 08:07 and yet nobody has noticed 08:07 (apart from me a couple of years ago) 08:07 vanilla 3.4.3, that is 08:08 ais523_: The reason this came up was that I wanted to fix an issue in NH4 where monsters move right away on level gen 08:08 Before you have a chance to act 08:08 This is a regression from NH3 08:08 I'm ambivalent about that mechanic 08:08 And was introduced with the movement system refactor 08:08 it doesn't really make any sense that monsters don't move the first time you enter a level but do on subsequent times 08:08 aosdict: EPI: monsters can wish for artifacts that you have, and they'll be taken from you and given to the monster. 08:09 (This all came up because I wanted to also address it for bones) 08:09 it does serve as a small penalty for stairdipping 08:09 ais523_: aosdict suggested that going up/downstairs would be a free turn 08:09 I strongly disagreed because, yeah, stairdancing 08:09 I think the optimum is for monsters to /always/ get a move after you use stairs 08:09 as a partial stairdancing nerf 08:09 You mean going in stairs would take a complete turn? 08:09 I could see that 08:09 that'd be one way to implement it 08:10 ais523_: I think the optimum is to ban the use of stairs for a couple turns after you just used one (slex implementation :P) 08:10 I disabled bones generation on < 08:10 btw 08:10 because a jabberwock next to the upstairs 08:10 murdered like 10 characters 08:10 from different people 08:10 "LarienTelrunya, killed by a soldier ant, while climbing stairs" 08:10 LarienTelrunya: EPI: using stairs paralyzes you for 3 turns. 08:10 I am of the opinion that if you enter a bones, you should at least have time to react 08:10 If you die on <, you don't really 08:10 FIQ: OK, I can see that 08:11 bones should really give you time to prepare 08:11 alternatively, put the bones level in a special area of bones that means that it only gets loaded if the player enters the level in a nontraditional way (e.g. trapdoor) 08:11 I agree with the sentiment but strongly dislike just plain not generating the level in a specific circumstance 08:11 Didn't someone suggest that going _down_ stairs should be a free action, but going back up should use a turn? 08:12 how about this: when loading a bones level and the player arrives on < and there's monsters next to it, they get randomly warped to other squares on the level? ;) 08:12 jonadab: Inconsistent and dubious IMO 08:12 Chris_ANG suggested that when a bones level is saved, all monsters' movement points are zeroed. 08:12 That might also work. 08:12 aosdict: did you see my YANI about proselytizing 08:13 so you can still get whacked by monsters next to the stairs on a regular level, but not a bones level 08:13 jonadab: that's flavour-justifiable, at least 08:13 aosdict: I attempted to do that earlier. That is when I discovered the movement bugs in NH4 08:13 although it might lead to stairdancing on the downstairs 08:13 FIQ: uh let me just grep my logs for that word 08:13 rather than the upstairs 08:13 aosdict: I didn't mention that word 08:13 just grep for YANI 08:13 or charisma 08:13 Oh, you mean convincing peacefuls via #chat to join you 08:14 yeah 08:14 (not automatically, but as a prompt if you want to try to convince them) 08:14 so you can still chat properly to priests, etc 08:14 aosdict: Heh, I like a33f1ab. 08:14 jonadab: what is that 08:14 I very much like the concept; #chat needs more things it can do and monsters need more ways of being tamed 08:14 jonadab: Credit to ais523_ for the idea. 08:15 FIQ: YAFM when you press the Esc key while held by a monster. 08:15 hah 08:15 what is the YAFM 08:15 presumably "You cannot escape from the «foo»" 08:15 "You cannot escape from %s!" 08:15 ahh 08:15 Arguably, it should also work when engulfed. 08:16 being engulfed and being held are the same state internally 08:16 so it probably already does 08:16 ais523_: btw, I added a mechanic that is not at all potentially broken today 08:16 Ah. 08:16 FIQ: well it's got to be less broken than NitroHack migration :-D 08:16 ais523_: No, I used sticky checks. But I could see it being (u.ustuck && !sticky(youmonst.data)) 08:16 ais523_: broken in a balance sense of the word 08:16 I made covetous-warp symmetric 08:16 (currently it checks if sticky(u.ustuck->data) as well) 08:17 FIQ: so the player can covetous-warp? 08:17 yes 08:17 this is one of those things where I can't think of any obvious abuses but have an instant feeling of "this has 'bad idea' written all over it 08:17 " 08:17 ais523_: Yeah pretty much 08:17 I couldn't think of any abuse vector 08:18 But it seemed like a questionable move 08:18 but eh 08:18 why not :D 08:18 I did add some restrictions 08:18 both to players and monsters 08:18 You can only do it if something has an item you covet, though, right? 08:18 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/FIQHack bottom 08:18 jonadab: Monsters can always do it 08:18 So players can too 08:18 Oh. 08:18 Hmm. 08:19 [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Wiz Syl Fem Cha), 18840 points, T:13081, killed by a mountain centaur 08:19 does it let you get in and out of the Wizard's Tower? 08:19 :/ 08:19 I think there should be a requirement that you have to be able to perceive a monster to warp to it 08:19 Well, the Wizard can do it... 08:19 ais523_: Ah, like dnethack's Thought Travel 08:20 But covetous monsters can warp all over the place if they want to 08:20 only to the player and the upstairs 08:20 (And they do in FIQHack, to search for their prey) 08:20 but right, FIQHack changes that mechanic 08:20 maybe "covetousness" should be split into a number of different trinsics 08:20 e.g. Rodney has intrinsic teleport control, presumably that's meant to "flavour" how his covetousness works 08:21 ais523_: Either way, currently, monsters and player covetousness works exactly the same 08:21 And is basically teleportation 08:21 but unrestricted 08:21 I added some caveats (both for players and monsters) 08:21 as mentioned on the wikipage 08:22 * It doesn't work on the Planes 08:22 * It has a 500-turn cooldown 08:22 * It is a free action 08:22 * Monsters have the same restrictions (new) 08:22 covetousness a) changes monster AI, b) gives you free teleportation before your normal actions, c) lets you perceive a particular type of item 08:22 ais523_: i found a bug in nh4 yesterday! 08:23 hmm, the 500-turn cooldown would very much change how monster covetousness behaves 08:23 or at least a problem 08:23 heh stenno woooo! 08:23 ^__^ 08:23 ais523_: Right, I anticipate having to change the AI to account for this new restirction 08:23 *restriction 08:23 stenno: ugh, I'm not really in a state to be bugfixing at the moment :-( 08:23 I just spent ages doing that for work 08:23 FIQ: shouldn't it be a Pw cost, really? 08:23 That said, with the 500-turn limit 08:23 I can make it more willing to abuse it in "unfair" ways 08:24 (such as removing the "stand on the <" exploit) 08:24 also, what's the UI for this? ^T? 08:24 #monster 08:24 what if you're a covetous spellcaster? 08:24 FIQHack monster spellcasting was removed in 2015 08:25 ais523_: I also added a major change to HP/Pw yesterday. I think the system itself is sound, but numbers probably need adjustment 08:25 I revised how you gain HP and Pw on level up 08:26 Basically 08:26 Instead of roles and races having a random amount they gain, and a cut-off level 08:26 where they get less 08:26 which is role/race-unique 08:26 and having an additional bonus/penalty based on Con/Wis 08:26 you instead gain a fixed amount of HP and Pw on level up 08:27 the amount being based on role, race and current con/wis 08:27 hmm, I think NetHack would benefit for more uses for its ability scores, rather than less 08:27 ah it was this one: 08:27 unless Con affects max HP in a dynamic sense (i.e. adjustments to Con adjust max HP at the same time) 08:27 13:50 <+Beholder> ais523: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-27 18:56 EDT: More issues: rndmonst_inner -> qt_montype -> mkclass -> rndmonst_inner -> ... 08:27 This is realized in a table of HP/Pw gain 08:27 and your Con level 08:27 Whenever Con/Wis changes 08:27 it will retroactively apply the new bonus 08:27 or penalty 08:28 As an example 08:28 if you gain +3 HP from role at 12 con and +3 from race 08:28 and +4/+4 at 13 con 08:28 and have 50 HP, XL 10, 12 con 08:28 gaining a point of Con would change your max HP to 68 08:29 I would link to you the article explaining the mechanics 08:29 also the priest quest wont generate dragons if you are low level, and thats because mkclass was changed 08:29 But you are at work 08:29 stenno: healer 08:29 er yes healer 08:29 ais523_: Note that only max HP/Pw, not current, changes 08:29 This is to prevent free HP/Pw heals by abusing equipment 08:30 that boost/lower Con/Wis 08:30 fair enough 08:30 (Current HP/Pw will change if max becomes lower than current, but otherwise it's unchanged) 08:30 some games would even make the repeated changing damage you 08:30 I think D&D preserves your distance from your /max/ HP 08:30 i.e. losing Con can kill you if you're on low HP at the time 08:30 I considered that 08:30 But concluded it was a bit too evil 08:31 It would also interact oddly with energy 08:31 ah that healer quest thing was mentioned too already 08:31 (would you suddenly have -5 Pw?) 08:31 Evil Patch idea: if your CON is somehow dropped below 3, you die instantly. 08:31 LarienTelrunya: That should be a feature 08:31 Actually, evil patch idea: stat death if any of the 6 stats (including charisma because hehehe :D) drops below 3. 08:32 LarienTelrunya: a Charisma of 0 effectively paralyses you in D&D 08:32 because you cease to have a personality and thus don't do anything 08:32 LOL 08:32 * stenno feels kinda robbed.. 08:33 -!- ais523_ has quit [Quit: quit] 08:34 wouldn't you still do things 08:34 but react purely on instinct 08:35 What if you have a Charisma of 1? 08:43 aosdict please send me a !tell in the future if there's an update pending. almost missed your message 08:45 "please send me spam" 08:45 xNetHack updated (us and eu) 08:50 * aosdict passes out cans of spam labeled "!tell" 08:51 heh 08:52 K2: I'm too used to stuff like !tell K2 pushed stuff ok Message from FIQ 2 seconds ago: "pushed stuff" 08:53 -!- jonadab has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:56 -!- tubs has joined #hardfought 08:59 -!- jonadab has joined #hardfought 08:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v jonadab] by ChanServ 09:00 hothraxxa: Just out of curiosity, are you old enough to remember when Ctrl-S/Ctrl-Q flow control was actually useful? 09:01 This question popped into my head just now because it appears that Konsole _still has an option for it_, and for some odd reason this option is getting turned on for me. 09:04 Which is rather annoying. I turn it off, and try to use Ctrl-s in Emacs, and boom, Output has been suspended by pressing Ctrl+S. Press Ctrl+Q to resume. Click here to dismiss this message. 09:04 The feature won't stay turned off. 09:06 I use konsole but it doesn't do that in emacs for me 09:06 Does it in regular shell though 09:06 Yeah, I've never seen it before on any other system. 09:06 In Konsole, I mean. 09:06 I think the option for Ctrl-s/ctrl-q flow control is meant to be off by default. 09:06 Not sure why it is getting turned on here. 09:07 Let me try exiting Konsole entirely and restarting it. 09:08 Ah, that fixed it. 09:08 Weird fluke. 09:09 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:10 Frankly, I'm not sure why a modern terminal would even have the option. It was useful from the time computer systems got fast enough to scroll faster than you could read, until a couple of years later (ok, maybe ten years) when they got so fast, a whole screenful would go by before you could hit the key. 09:10 [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Wiz Syl Fem Cha), 3414 points, T:616, killed by a puppy 09:10 heh 09:10 At which point, pagers were invented. 09:10 There's no way you could get Konsole to run on a system so old that it doesn't have a pager. 09:11 jonadab, more/less isn't actually a build requirement of Konsole :P 09:11 NCommander: No, but it's present OOTB on everything since DOS 2. 09:11 Unfortunately, UNIX TTY is littered with very ugly legacy garbage that 99.9% of people will never care about. 09:12 and if something doesn't make it to a new release the 0.1% will complain so loudly that it gets put back 09:12 (I actually don't know for sure about DOS 2; I started with DOS 3.3.) 09:12 (But I don't think MORE was new at that point.) 09:13 jonadab: Does CMD have more? 09:13 I'm not sure what Konsole flow control actually controls, but historically in TTYs, it referred to hardware flow control (XON/XOFF) which allowed a serial line to signal if the other side could stream data freely and then when to pause. 09:13 FIQ: of course 09:13 (or an equivalent) 09:13 FIQ: Like I said, DOS had it in version 3. I used to use it all the time. 09:13 ah 09:14 how 09:14 jonadab, DOS didn't specifically support serial terminals any more advanced than a dumb console without exceptional pain 09:14 Now, MORE didn't have the ability to scroll back _up_. For that you need less. 09:14 * NCommander has been there 09:14 Which is newer. 09:14 ctty COMx worked obviously, but it actually was rather buggy in practice 09:14 jonadab: as in 09:14 for example 09:14 NCommander: Yeah, didn't have an IP stack either. 09:14 how can I pipe type into more 09:14 CMD doesn't have piping I Think 09:14 *I think 09:15 FIQ: What? 09:15 command.com supported | 09:15 cmd supports it too 09:15 hm 09:15 FIQ: DOS had pipe since forever and ever. 09:15 (command.com - DOS, cmd, NT) 09:15 guess I am mistaken then 09:15 What it doesn't have is the ability to redirect STDERR 09:15 STDIN and STDOUT yes. STDERR no. 09:15 I'm fairly sure DOS 2 supported MORE, or could because it's entire character system was designed around CP437 which is more advanced than pure vt100 09:16 Conventionally, DOS programs only used STDERR for _fatal_ errors, messages that were going to the console right before you terminated. 09:16 jonadab: CMD does support redirecting stderr 09:16 I think I started with DOS 2.1 because I remember DOS 3.0 being presented as a big deal 09:16 It uses identical syntax as UNIX shells do 09:16 Actually, redirecting STDERR is a bashism 09:16 FIQ: COMMAND.COM definitely did not. 09:16 sh didn't support it, nor did the more common csh of the era 09:16 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1420965/redirect-windows-cmd-stdout-and-stderr-to-a-single-file 09:16 ksh MIGHT have ... don't remember 09:16 * NCommander used OS/2 ... 09:16 >.>; 09:17 Huh, never seen that happen hbefore. 09:17 "boiling hot corpse", some how, I feel like that's a SLEX death message. 09:17 tubs: only in dnh 09:18 if you eat somehting like a red mold you get damage from it 09:18 because it burns your insides 09:18 NCommander: I've never actually seen OS/2 IRL. It was current when I was using DOS, but I never saw it personally. 09:18 I have! friend of ours used it 09:18 I remember feeding 29 floppies in to install it. 09:18 looked like early X-windows 09:18 Heh. 09:19 and a box that was heavy enough to serve as a kitty killer if it fell by accident. 09:19 [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Wiz Syl Fem Cha), 3393 points, T:635, quit 09:19 hope all the kitties ran away in time 09:22 raisse: YANI: if you take damage from a hot corpse and you're hallucinating, give a YAFM about spicy food. 09:25 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:46 -!- tubs has quit [Quit: *poof*] 09:47 !rng update the YANI archive | do more work on xnh | play games instead of designing them | work on other design proposals | do real work that I have to have finished by tomorrow 09:47 aosdict: do more work on xnh 09:47 oh Beholder, you know me so well 09:50 what is aosdict going to do 09:57 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 09:57 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 10:04 FIQ: the answer is option f: none of the above, go to a meeting I had to go to instead 10:04 elenmirie: did yo uascend the cav? 10:05 yes 10:05 congrats! 10:05 thx! 10:23 not being able to cast healing as a beginning healer is pretty awful 10:28 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:33 what XL were you at then? 10:36 1 10:40 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) genocided class L, on T:39577 10:40 XL1 at T:2242? Protection racket? 10:41 attempted, yes 10:44 The gnome plays a frost horn! The bolt of cold hits you! 10:44 But it reflects from your amulet! 10:44 what a twist! 10:44 thank you for identifying my amulet, gnome! 10:45 did the gnome kill himself in the process 10:45 no, it didn't rebound far enough 10:46 my dog got him though 10:58 Now I'm XL3 and I still can't cast healing 10:59 but at least you learned how to read! 10:59 heh 10:59 I got stuck to a mimic and I couldn't blast it with my frost horn like I did the last one because the shopkeeper was in the line of fire 11:01 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 11:01 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 11:12 !tell K2 pushed a fix to the "pawed" thing 11:12 Will do, aosdict! 11:13 <@kritixilithos> why can't you cast healing? is it something specific to xnh? 11:14 yes, the spellcasting system is refactored 11:15 spells cost more power instead of having a chance of failure 11:15 elenmirie: but isn't healing almost always 0% for starting healers? 11:15 unless you started with like no wis 11:15 for some reason 11:16 Wi 14, so it's pretty low 11:16 also wearing an orc hat 11:17 just fired up a healer in FIQHack 11:17 5pw, I can cast it 11:17 that said I started with 18 wi 11:17 now let's see with xnh 11:17 tbh, that game, I wouldn't have been able to cast it in vanilla anyway, because I started with 4 pw 11:17 at level 1 I mean 11:18 it demands 12pw 11:18 14 wisdom 11:18 that's about what I had 11:18 this amounts to like 60% fail 11:18 it was worse with the iron hat, of course 11:18 let's re-roll... 11:18 hm, sounds odd 11:19 um 11:19 this time I also have 14 wisdom 11:19 yet it demands only 11pw 11:19 what gives? 11:19 interesting 11:19 random element in there somewhere? 11:19 17 wisdom 11:19 9pw 11:19 which is 40% fail 11:19 so you still can't cast it 11:19 (-ish) 11:19 yeah but 11:20 why is FIQHack fail rates too low 11:20 17 should be 0% fail 11:20 or xnh too high 11:20 <@mtf> FIQ: so special level generation is broken in FH eh... 11:20 also I started with 4pw 11:20 always fun when that happens 11:20 yeah 11:20 no longer a thing in FIQHack :3 11:20 @mtf and other NH4 variants 11:21 I don't know how to fix it atm 11:21 Need to look into monster generation 11:21 <@mtf> so this affects all special level gen? 11:21 but I want to also know how it is supposed to work 11:21 basically 11:21 I think the solution here 11:21 is to just rewrite it 11:21 it can't be that hard to make a monster generation function 11:21 mind you, this isn't monster *creation* 11:21 but "pick what to make" 11:21 (monster creation is far more complex) 11:22 the only hurdle 11:22 is that I don't know how it works right now 11:22 or is supposed to wor 11:22 <@mtf> gotcha 11:22 k 11:22 <@mtf> so what levels does this encompass? 11:22 <@mtf> just the quest and ludios? 11:22 <@mtf> or castle, demon lairs, etc 11:22 I have a feeling that even if I come up with something reasonable 11:23 merely the fact that it is different 11:23 will throw off a lot of people 11:23 they wont know *what* is "off" 11:23 but something will be 11:23 etc 11:23 that said, considering NH4's generation has been broken for years 11:23 without anyone noticing 11:23 maybe not 11:28 I think stalkers might be disallowed from generating on the Planes 11:28 because it's part of the elemental class 11:28 and they're only allowed to generate on their own plane 11:41 I found the offending code 11:41 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 11:44 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Mon Hlf Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1798 11:46 hi 11:46 Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought 11:46 K2: Message from aosdict at 2018-03-28 11:12 EDT: pushed a fix to the "pawed" thing 11:46 awesome 11:48 the next slex version will make it so that prompts like "what do you want to charge" or the direction prompt when zapping a spell will allow the player to try again when accidentally spacebarring past it :) 11:48 I'll also try to make it so that hitting escape, or a key that is read as escape, does not cancel a wish prompt 11:48 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Mon Hlf Fem Law) was given the Lifehunt Scythe, on T:2074 11:48 xNetHack updated (us and eu) 11:49 <@riker> !tell Chris_ANG idea: monks will only get gifted weapon classes they have hit with (skills or maybe just "blunt", "edged", "stabby", etc.) 11:49 Will do, @riker! 11:49 <@riker> (YANI cc aosdict) 11:49 <@riker> !tell Chris_ANG another idea: gods are more likely to grant artifacts that you already have skill in (i.e. aren't restricted in) over ones you are / have less/no skill in 11:49 Will do, @riker! 11:50 !tell K2 pushed a fix that should fix lack of Ds in ludios and similar 11:50 Will do, FIQ! 11:50 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 22708 points, T:3029, killed by a dwarf king 11:50 while keeping minesflayers basically non-existent 11:50 (they can appear *in theory*, but only if random selection failed to find a valid choice 500 times) 11:51 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:51 incidentally 11:53 !tell ais523 the if check in makemon.c:1485 (nethack4 code) contains the offending code preventing things like dragons from appearing. It also violates the "don't account for player level" thing. What I did now was to add a "tryct > 500" to that if, so that if the game really wants something to appear, it will still happen, while minesflayers remain non-existent (in practice) 11:53 Will do, FIQ! 11:54 why are minesflayers nonexistant though? if an XL11 character is on level 11 on the mines, they should be in depth difficulty-wise, right? 11:54 LarienTelrunya: Yes, then it would be able to spawn 11:54 This is concerning out of depth minesflayers 11:54 ah 11:55 And they aren't out of depth at that point 11:55 so in-depth ones are allowed 11:55 yes 11:55 EPI: make the Gnomish Mines 10 levels deeper, and move both Minetown and Mines End down 10 levels. Because then it's deep enough for mind flayers to be in depth. 11:56 (i.e. increase the length of the mines branch by 10 levels) 11:57 elenmirie: The only relevant stats should be XL, skill, Intelligence, and equipment. Wisdom is NOT a spellcasting stat for any roles anymore. 11:59 aosdict: that is huge 11:59 it means healers can almost never cast their starting spells realibly 11:59 oh wow 11:59 ugh 11:59 they have like 10 int 11:59 on average 11:59 7 in my case 11:59 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) was given Mirror Brand, on T:2016 11:59 * elenmirie wonders how she ever got into healer school 11:59 it would be even worse in the old system 12:00 Well, just following the lines that dtsund outlined. 12:00 since 60% fail is far worse for a *healing spell* than costing 12pw 12:00 (after gaining 2 levels or so) 12:00 FIQ: Also, special spells and emergency spells don't exist anymore, which both hurt healers. 12:00 aosdict: yes, I do agree that spellcasting could do with being consistently coupled with int 12:01 I'm now level 5, and my level 3 spells now cost 300 12:01 cue hothraxxa complaining about me hating healers 12:01 but for that you need to revise both spellcast % 12:01 let me run some odds on this later 12:01 that's without any metal gear on 12:01 and attribute scores 12:01 elenmirie: 300pw for level 3 spells amounts to 98% fail 12:01 with old system 12:01 I have 40 Pw 12:02 so no chance 12:03 elenmirie: i pointed this out immediately on my first game 12:03 it doesn't seem right to base all spellcasting on int, because the way the roles are geared gave high wisdom typically to those roles that use it for casting 12:03 elenmirie: clearly there is an imbalance here, I need to figure out how to address it 12:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 6566 points, T:2711, killed by a parrot 12:03 you need to reach xl5 or 6 to be able to cast extra healing 12:03 hothraxxa: I must have missed that 12:03 I'm at XL5 and I can't get anywhere close 12:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 104 points, T:131, killed by a fox 12:03 removing emergency spells hurt healers more than anything else I think 12:03 they get a major bonus from that 12:04 yes 12:04 don't worry, when you get to the mid-game you get the nerfed unihorn 12:04 also pet healing is a huge thing 12:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Mon Hlf Fem Law) was given the Shield of the Resolute Heart, on T:3228 12:04 rip gno hea paci :( 12:04 hothraxxa: what 12:04 what happened' 12:04 hothraxxa: I've got a silver saber 12:04 -' 12:04 oh yeah 12:04 actually it's a bit better now than it was when i ascnded 12:05 aosdict made it one-handed 12:05 and less damage 12:05 and heal yourself on use 12:05 he restored a bit of damage 12:05 I haven't seen a single unicorn yet 12:05 meaning it is now arguably the best weapon in the game for an off-hand 12:05 buffing twoweaponing 12:05 but *nerfing* healers 12:05 heal yourself on use BAREHANDED 12:05 who can't twoweapon 12:05 in a single change 12:05 well done aosdict :D 12:05 yes, what hothraxxa said 12:06 what do you mean 12:06 I never have the guts to play barehanded 12:06 how would you be healed barehanded 12:06 also when i ascended, xnh still had the greeting mobs 12:06 I don't understand 12:06 greeting mobs? 12:06 you have to wield it barehanded to get the autohealing effects 12:06 the auto-apply only works if you are barehanded 12:06 ??? 12:06 How can you wield a weapon 12:06 and be bare-handed 12:07 at the same time? 12:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 2290 points, T:536, killed by a hill orc 12:07 no gloves 12:07 Oh 12:07 FIQ: bare-handed as in no gloves 12:07 ok 12:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 20 points, T:27, killed by a newt 12:07 Meh, gloves are optional 12:07 greeting mobs, yes. originally the new xnh monster generation meant that you'd get mobbed as soon as you descended to a new level 12:07 but that's another one of the healer percs... they start with nice gloves 12:07 haha 12:08 I should fix that so that monsters that spawn right next to the stairs get rloc'ed 12:08 this is great 12:08 so let me get this straight 12:08 aosdict made a change 12:08 gloves are optional until you've got your towel on and there's a c corpse on the ground 12:08 I like how so far in xnh 12:08 making unihorns 1-handed 12:08 reducing damage to 1d10 or so 12:08 exactly, hothraxxa! 12:08 making them autoheal when not wearing gloves 12:08 over 50% of the non-bug complaints have been about nerfing healers 12:08 meaning they're arguably the best weapon in the game to offhand 12:09 I know, whinge whinge whinge 12:09 and buffs twoweapon 12:09 nerfing healers? 12:09 and at the same time 12:09 it nerfs usage by the one role who it actually makes flavour sense to use them 12:09 and they don't even benefit from the heal because gloves 12:09 ingenious 12:09 I'd say that's a good summary :p 12:09 * hothraxxa shrugs 12:09 it was a challenge 12:09 aosdict is very efficient when it comes to nerfing healer 12:10 s 12:10 i still won as a healer and he's reduced some of that nerfing since i did it 12:10 and i'm not that good, so 12:10 * NCommander needs to find some nethack time 12:10 and he removed emergency spells 12:11 made casting always based off int 12:11 what 12:11 K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-28 11:50 EDT: pushed a fix that should fix lack of Ds in ludios and similar 12:11 which are almost always healing spells 12:11 this is all a plot to make healers useless 12:11 admit it 12:11 wow, it really _must_ seem like I hate healers :P 12:11 lol 12:11 and priests 12:11 hey, at least it's not the samurai that's being made useless :D 12:11 Ouch. WIS casting had the advantage of WIS being easy to raise. Sorta useless for Valks cause they suck at casting but handy for everyone else. 12:11 and monks 12:11 if you made casting be based soley off of int... that screws over a few different classes 12:11 I assure you none of this was deliberately directed at healers 12:12 no doubt in my mind that the early death rate for healers will be higher than other variants 12:12 but your change hit healers the hardest 12:12 well, except raising unihorn damage from 1d3/1d3 12:12 My biggest issue with Sam is they're pretty bland, I find the pseudo-japanese annoying, and $!@# the quest. 12:12 and healers happen to be my favorite role 12:12 no but as a pointed out all along in your development, you WEREnerfing healers 12:12 aosdict doesnt hate healers. he hates hothraxxa 12:12 FIQ: Apparently there are far more people who favorite healers than I thought. 12:12 sam quest is just mean 12:12 instadeaths is no fair 12:12 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 2947 points, T:3971, killed by a parrot 12:13 FIQ, says the variant maintainer who let monsters use scroll of genocide :P 12:13 I think I will make vorpal and tsurugi crit instead 12:13 NCommander: what?! samurai is literally the best role :P 12:13 NCommander: make a monster genocide youu while unpolymorphed in fiqhack 12:13 * LarienTelrunya tried all non-slex variants last junethack playing only samurai, and ascended half of them :D 12:13 LarienTelrunya, I find it bland, it plays no differently than valk for a worse artifact 12:13 if you do it from now 12:13 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 162 points, T:273, killed by a jackal 12:14 until junethack is over 12:14 LarienTelrunya: easy to ascend with != not bland 12:14 but the samurai starts with speed and the best offhand weapon that exists! 12:14 I will nerf monster geno 12:14 good luck! 12:14 Barbarian at least can be a decent in attack spells, although their artifact is utter garbage 12:14 FIQ, honestly, I'd probably just change monster polymorph to work like SLASH'EM (wears off) unless they have amulet of unchanging 12:15 NCommander: that is a completely unrelated change, but yes i agree 12:15 the main reason I haven't yet 12:15 is that there first needs to be a way to realibly get good pets 12:15 FIQ, well no, cause then if you get killed in poly by $oG is you'll get kicked back. 12:15 that doesn't involve magic 12:15 Ok, so what are the options for re-buffing healers? I'm not going to re-add split Int/Wis casting, and I don't want to re-add special spells or emergency spells. 12:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 640 points, T:337, killed by a homunculus 12:15 NCommander: I said "unpolymorphed" 12:15 as in 12:15 Perhaps biasing their stat generation to have higher Int and lower Wis? 12:15 no polyself geno 12:15 Oh, misread. 12:16 aosdict: that actually makes sense flavourwise 12:16 healers should be smart 12:16 aosdict, possibly unrestrict a magic class? Diviation might thematic fit on the grounds of "divining" what is wrong with a patent. 12:16 NCommander: what 12:16 oh 12:16 or maybe I should just give up being here today until I've had a full 8 hours of sleep. 12:16 you meant patient 12:17 I guess 12:17 *patient :) 12:17 not patent 12:17 NCommander: anyway the issue here is that healers can't cast the spells they are supposed to be able to cast 12:17 unrestricting schools will not help with that 12:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 1388 points, T:416, killed by a giant bat 12:18 <@riker> !tell Chris_ANG I hit the previous msgs command (ctrl-p) and the game crashed? recovered fine though (in minetown shop after selling a lot of stuff) 12:18 Will do, @riker! 12:18 <@riker> cc k2 12:18 Perhaps also, the jump from Unskilled to Basic skill (healers start with Basic healing) should be worth more. 12:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 145 points, T:11, killed by a water moccasin 12:18 Cancel out metal penalties for healer for healing spells? (aka combat medic) 12:18 aosdict: it should be the biggest jump of them all 12:18 followed by skilled->expert 12:18 and finally basic->skilled 12:19 is that ctrl-p bug still there? 12:19 a vanilla healer can't cast extra healing or stf at xl1 either 12:19 people have mentioned that crash bug for like a year 12:19 hothraxxa: they can cast them from level 3 12:19 -ish 12:19 right 12:19 so xnh should aim for that 12:19 now they need to be like level 10 12:20 i thought i could cast them earlier than that, in fact i'm sure i could 12:20 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 2872 points, T:504, killed by a red naga hatchling 12:20 hmm perhaps 12:20 but later than vanilla 12:20 i thought xl5 or 6, but elenmirie says she's xl5 and can't 12:21 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 18 points, T:124, killed by a jackal 12:21 it's based on int and I rolled a 7 12:21 yeah i was dumb too 12:22 NCommander: I want to avoid role- or spell-specific cases as much as possible. 12:23 Wait, marten! There's a feminist named AmyBSOD hiding under a pair of sharp-edged sandals {8}! 12:23 elenmirie: Also, I'm rolling up some test healers and casting healing isn't _that_ hard... it's never gone above 12, certainly never to 300 12:24 no, not healing, those are my L3 spells 12:24 that are 300 12:24 healing is now at 9, if I'm not wearing my gear 12:24 which I am 12:24 I possibly am okay with healers not being able to cast healing right from the outset of the game, if they can level up to getting it castable quickly enough. 12:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Mon Hlf Fem Law) was given the Tie-Dye Shirt of Shambhala, on T:4817 12:25 they do have healing potions, after all. 12:25 so with the helmet, +3 iron shoes and small shield, it's 50 12:25 and I have 40 pw 12:25 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 3104 points, T:1573, killed by a lemure 12:25 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 24 points, T:17, killed by a kobold 12:25 Oh, so you're wearing a bunch of armor that impedes casting, why didn't you mention that? :P 12:25 aosdict: yes that's how I survived 12:25 I did 12:25 the 300 is buck naked 12:26 for extra healing and stone to flesh 12:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 1662 points, T:199, killed by Ms. Pengalengan, the shopkeeper 12:27 so you're getting an effective success% of 20 12:27 this is at XL1, with low Int? 12:27 I'm at XL5, int 7 12:27 i don't think so 12:28 show your spell list elenmirie 12:28 (watching) 12:28 daaaaamn 12:28 that's with no gear 12:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Mon Hlf Fem Law) was given the Garnet Rod, on T:5300 12:28 healing 9 pw 12:28 Int and XL count 5% towards success each, so are interchangeable 12:28 extra healing 300 pw 12:29 something got screwed up aosdict 12:30 healing 9pw is around 40% fail 12:30 so +60% (int, XL), +20% (Basic), -75% (level 3) 12:31 success% should then be 5% 12:31 then it should cost 100pw 12:31 oh, level 3 spells, right 12:31 so 300pw yeah, adds up 12:31 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 5357 points, T:1196, killed by a system shock 12:31 yay, found a leather hat 12:31 now healing is castable with gear (16) 12:32 FIQ: perhaps spell level shouldn't factor into success% since that effectively double-penalizes for higher level spells since it already increases the Pw cost 12:33 and success% isn't actually being _used_ as success% by anything else 12:33 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 1706 points, T:182, killed by a hobgoblin 12:33 aosdict: then they should be more expensive in general I think? 12:33 if you can cast force bolt 12:33 you can also cast finger of death 12:33 not sure if that is good 12:34 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 561 points, T:257, killed by a gnome 12:35 on the other end, my orc wizard could easily cast fod wearing gauntlets of power 12:35 aosdict I think you should revert back and rethink power cost for spells 12:35 hothraxxa thats been addressed 12:35 in latest patch applied today 12:36 oh i haven't read backscroll 12:36 K2: did you apply the fiqhack fix 12:36 to monster generation 12:36 so you can now get the D 12:36 not yet 12:36 in ludios 12:36 properly 12:36 ahh ok 12:36 hothraxxa https://github.com/copperwater/xNetHack/commits/xnh0.1.0 12:36 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 536 points, T:340, killed by a coyote 12:37 I am sure @mtf and @luxidream will also enjoy the change 12:37 since they have both complained about it :P 12:37 K2: I'm not going to directly revert changes if the only problem with them is balance. 12:38 ty k2 12:38 a lvl 6 healer needing 300 pw to cast a healing spell is a big deal aosdict 12:38 I am happy K2 never plays my variant, then I don't get demands from him telling me to fix stuff 12:38 right but I'm not going to put development time into specifically reverting so everyone can get confused as to why it's gone back to vanilla behavior, and then have to re-untangle it again later 12:38 * K2 starts playing FIQhack 12:39 K2: my point is that you sound unneccessarily demanding right now 12:39 and you should maybe rethink your wording 12:39 aosdict: it needs tuning not a return to vanilla 12:39 yes, it is clearly a problem 12:39 FIQ: no but since it's all about Pw costs, finger of death would then simply cost 7 times as much as force bolt 12:39 and aosdict will look into it 12:39 how else am i supposed to say '300 power cost for a healing spell for a healer is wrong' ? 12:40 K2: by simply stating that 12:40 yes, it is a problem 12:40 but i just did 12:40 aosdict knows this 12:40 he will look into it 12:40 K2: perhaps "you should fix it" and not "you should revert it" 12:40 it will not become better because people demand him to do things 12:40 i'm not demanding anything 12:40 he will fix it when he has found a solution 12:40 i'm stating a fact 12:40 K2: it sounded very demanding 12:41 this is irc. mine doesn't have sound 12:41 hothraxxa: yeah, easy to misunderstand intent 12:41 maybe that is what I did 12:41 i wasnt awar ethat I was hurting anyones feelings 12:41 well perhaps you were a bit subjective yeah 12:41 no feelings were harmed in this exercise 12:42 heh 12:42 none of mine, anyway 12:42 nor mine 12:42 * K2 looks at FIQ 12:42 * hothraxxa pouts 12:42 if i were being demanding, you wouldnt have to wonder if I was or not 12:42 heh 12:42 you're an nco, no? 12:42 yes 12:42 hothraxxa: I run irc through a text to speech program for maximum amusement 12:42 well then 12:43 master sergeant now :P 12:43 god help me 12:43 using the moonbase alpha TTS program 12:43 K2: how was wand school 12:43 i think they have a how to sound demanding merit badge or something 12:43 I heard it was obligatory for soldiers to go through 12:43 * K2 cats wand of lightning at FIQ 12:43 casts 12:43 did that tickle? 12:43 i a=hate wands of lightning 12:43 the army has merit badges? 12:44 K2: it hurt :( 12:44 lol no 12:44 good thing I don't have reflection 12:44 thats boyscouts 12:44 balls of lightning would have been fun 12:44 and ruin all my rings 12:44 and wands 12:44 K2 the Sergeant drinks a potion of promotion! K2 the Sergeant grows up into a master sergeant. 12:44 hah 12:44 I think I overnerfed item destruction in fh 12:44 its weird i never thought i'd make it this far 12:44 It is basically non-existent now 12:45 actually i wonder why captains don't get demoted when i drain them with the staff 12:45 next higher rank is sergeant major, thats the top (enlisted) 12:45 -!- tubs has joined #hardfought 12:45 hothraxxa: formalizing as YANI: make all the Yendorian Army ranks grow-up-able. 12:45 thats when I strat screaming at ppl to get off the grass or pick up cigarette butts 12:46 anyways 12:46 aosdict: I apologise if I came across too harsh (or hurt FIQ's feelings) 12:46 you didn't hurt my feelings 12:46 just seemed like maybe a revert may be in order 12:46 I wasn't even the target 12:47 FIQ you're not fooling anyone 12:47 if you need a hug, just ask 12:47 lol 12:47 !who 12:47 FIQ: [hdf-us] rikersan [dnh] Kame [dnh] ttc1401 [un] 12:47 FIQ: [hdf-eu] AmyBSOD [slex] elenmirie [xnh] 12:47 !hug FIQ 12:47 * K2 opens his arms wide 12:47 hmm 12:47 Tariru isn't playing D: 12:47 wanted to see hsi slex progress 12:47 *his 12:48 @Tone you should comment Tariru's slex ttyrec when he's done :P 12:50 !rng play | don't 12:50 FIQ: don't 12:50 ok 12:50 ugh I probably have time today to finish the work I need for tomorrow and EITHER update the archive or make some spellcasting tweaks 12:50 the tweaks would be more popular 12:50 archive? 12:50 but the archive hasn't been updated in 8 days 12:50 oh 12:50 that 12:51 FIQhack updated (us and eu) 12:51 :) 12:52 i kept trying to git pull and it was saying 'already up to date' and then i was like 'oh duh i'm in xnethack folder' 12:53 you tried to update fiqhack but was updating xnethack instead 12:53 I see where your priorities lie 12:53 well there was nothing to update :P 12:53 aosdict is nicer to me 12:54 well you actually play xnh :P 12:54 you hardly ever play fiqhack outside testing 12:54 true... to properly beta test something you have to log the time 12:54 FIQhack has been around a while 12:54 (I haven no problems with this, different people like different variants) 12:54 mhm 12:54 but you also simply like NH3 variants more 12:54 :P 12:55 * aosdict hopes people continue playing xnh after all roles have been ascended 12:55 make a nh4 version of grunthack 12:55 you would still play the NH3 version 12:55 I know this 12:55 no you dont 12:55 I like xnh 12:55 ^^ 12:56 that 12:56 despite the moaning 12:56 i do too 12:56 i understand its a work in progress 12:56 Oh, and one unambiguous healer buff I forgot about till now: scalpel damage. 12:56 but you have to moan so aosdict knows what to address :P 12:56 that's why I keep playing it 12:56 oh? 12:56 I thought I was doing better with it than usual 12:56 1d5/1d7 rather than 1d3/1d3 12:56 your starting scalpel is buffed 12:56 \o/ 12:56 oh, thanks! 12:57 flavored as it's extra sharp, or induces bleeding or something 12:57 *coughcough* E word conduct *coughwheeze* 12:57 well we know where to slash with it 12:57 I would venture to guess that's why I was able to pull off the protection racket despite all the other issues 12:57 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 9884 points, T:1794, killed by a gnome 12:57 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Mon Hlf Fem Law), 65064 points, T:10745, killed by a wand 12:58 K2: yes, if you start to complain *because* xnh is an unfinished product, I will remind you that you're the one who convinced me to put it on hdf in the first place :P 12:58 lol 12:58 hahahah 12:58 *put it on hdf before I otherwise would have asked to 12:58 aosdict: in Qud, short blades in general (knives, daggers, actual short swords) cause bleeding 12:58 :P 12:58 but how many bugs have been found now because of the public play testing 12:58 so close enough 12:58 FIQ: I am eventually going to implement bleeding and possibly make it exclusive to healers/scalpels 12:58 and some monsters probably 12:59 <@riker> would be nice to add actual poison then 12:59 <@riker> like, damage over time 12:59 that too 12:59 and disease 12:59 <@riker> instead of stat damage >_> 12:59 (hurting HP regen) 12:59 and add radiation poisoning 12:59 because the scalpel is made from depleted uranium 12:59 @riker In D&D where this came from, damage over time would be annoying to track. 13:00 It's at least justified. 13:01 [hdf-us] [un] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Durin's Bane, on T:17391 13:01 K2: heh 13:01 Your silver saber sears the leprechaun's flesh! 13:01 hm 13:01 in ADOM, disease makes it so that you can only regen half your HP 13:01 hmm 13:01 I guess that's because it's an i 13:01 it is a huge problem 13:01 yeah that should not happen 13:01 and it lasts forever 13:01 is bug 13:02 see? another bug found 13:02 and once it wears off 13:02 it has a potential to deal damage 13:02 potentially killing you 13:03 aosdict: i am playing xnh to help understand how your changes affect various roles. i do it because i've been involved in beta testing of various sorts most of my life and it's something i enjoy doing 13:03 much appreciated! 13:04 whether i continue with xnh afterwards depends on how nice you make the game to play, hence my encouragement to implement as much of fiq's qol improvements as possible 13:05 sadly it's nh3 not nh4 based 13:05 but curses would make up for some of that 13:06 -!- tubs has quit [Quit: *poof*] 13:07 XL6, no impeding gear: healing 8, extra healing 150, pw 46 13:07 whats your int and wis? 13:07 wow. i was int 9 at that point, don't think i need that much power 13:07 int 7, wis 15 13:08 but I don't think wisdom matters at all from what aosdict said 13:08 by then i think i could get off one extra healing 13:08 i only played one healer game, so it's hard to sort out rng effects 13:09 with my +3 iron shoes and shield, healing is 14 and extra healing is Inf 13:09 well yeah 13:09 which I can live with, until I find nicer shoes 13:09 -!- tubs has joined #hardfought 13:09 i started avoiding armour as caster a while ago. i don't seem to die any more often because of it, so 13:10 hothraxxa: if I understand aosdict correctly here, it should cost 100pw at level 7 13:10 then 75, 60, 50 at 8, 9, 10 13:10 I avoid body armour as a caster, but I'm usually opportunistic about accessories 13:10 i'll wear one of shoes or helm 13:11 elenmirie: train up healing 13:11 anyway, fiq: i assume that's for int 7, what's it for 9? 13:11 that should mostly fix the problem 13:11 yes training does help a lot 13:11 good point 13:11 hothraxxa: 50, 42, 37 13:12 I got used to not using it, lol 13:12 currently the skill scale is +0, +20, +40, +80 13:12 (success%) 13:12 XL and int has the same effect 13:12 so XL8 int7 is the same as XL6 int9 13:12 ^ correct 13:12 crap, I screwed up soko 13:13 aosdict: I assume the spell penalties is -25, -50, -75, -100, -125, -150, -175? 13:13 per level, yes 13:13 but I'm not sure I understand your objection to my idea to removing that because the spell level already multiplies base Pw 13:14 aosdict: force bolt cost 5pw earlygame 13:14 you are suggesting that FoD should cost 35pw 13:14 other than it would already buff wizards even more 13:14 this makes it castable by like level 4 13:14 and easily so 13:15 i don't recall it being THAT easy 13:15 hothraxxa: this isn't actually implemented 13:15 ok. you had me worried 13:16 i'm getting old, you know. don't make me doubt my memory any more than i already do 13:17 i do think that a post-quest wizard is pretty much unstoppable 13:17 FIQ: ah so you're saying if int, xl, skill, equipment already gave 100% success 13:17 aosdict: it should be easier to cast level 1 spells 13:17 than level 7 spells 13:18 if you couple them 13:18 it would be very awkward to try to balance it 13:18 so that you can cast level 1 spells earlygame 13:18 hothraxxa: I pretty much agree 13:18 but not 7 13:18 and vice versa 13:18 right but the problem I'm trying to solve is that level 3 spells are uncastable 13:18 but that has nothing to do with pw cost change 13:18 to chars with sufficient Int and XL that it should at least be feasible 13:18 if it worked like previously 13:18 it would be 95% fail 13:18 etc 13:18 which is unreasonabl 13:18 e 13:19 to more easily understand the problem, I think it is easier to balance while considering the "old system" 13:20 makes it simpler to balance around 13:20 if you want an alternative 13:20 why did you make the decision to move all characters to Int for casting, rather than some on wisdom? 13:20 ADOM has no failure cost at all 13:20 that felt flavour-right to me 13:20 that some relied on wisdom 13:21 instead your success amounts to how well you can learn a spell 13:21 elenmirie: simplicity; it is annoying to have to keep track of which roles cast from which stat 13:21 if you have good int (learning), is a wizard, etc, you get many more casts from a single read 13:21 hm 13:21 basically I want to remove this table entirely https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Spellcasting#Calculating_spell_success_rate 13:21 actually wisdom is easy to exercise and int you can't even 13:22 that's right too 13:22 (and indeed xnh has done that) 13:22 calculating spell success requires like 4 tables 13:22 in vanilla 13:22 and math 13:22 complex math 13:23 too many variables. too much role-dependent conditions. too many special exceptions. 13:23 1+1=3 kind of math 13:23 2+2 is 4, minus 1 thats 3 13:23 HL3 confirmed 13:23 e^(pi*i) = -1 level math 13:23 -!- deadnoob_ has joined #hardfought 13:23 stenno understands 13:24 lol 13:24 ;) 13:24 both the hl3 meme and eulers sentence 13:24 or w/e its called in english 13:24 because uh 13:24 Euler's identity 13:25 elenmirie: I think perhaps I want to add back a single role-dependent stat, the base ability to do spellcasting. Actually that could go a long way towards fixing Hea casting, though it would be problematic to not make wizards even more OP. 13:25 e^(phi * i) = cos(phi) + i * sin(phi) 13:26 well, or maybe healers should have higher intelligence... after all, they were smart enough to get into med school... 13:26 but you're going to have the same problem with priests and monks 13:27 I haven't tried either of those roles, but now I understand why raisse was complaining when playing priest 13:30 in my revised HP/Pw thing, I took the opportunity to nerf wizard HP growth into oblivion 13:30 <@Tone> FIQ: ha, I can't even imagine reviewing a slex game 😄 13:30 how's that for OPness 13:32 Tone: do it! :D 13:33 aosdict: in ADOM, healers, due to knowing how our bodies work, have a buffed chance at causing extra damage on a hit 13:33 (ADOM has crits) 13:33 they also recover HP faster than every other role 13:37 <@riker> larien: I would probably do that if I streamed like mtf 13:37 <@riker> slex actually sounds very interesting to review 13:37 <@riker> (more so than vanilla, since there's more to talk about) 13:37 riker: do it! :D 13:37 <@riker> lol no 13:37 <@riker> I have a throat cold rn anyway so it's not happeneing for another week at minimum 13:37 elenmirie: flavor wise, priests probably got through seminary so should have decent Int, whereas monks should be exceedingly wise but not necessarily smart 13:38 <@riker> *s/for.+// 13:38 well then, play slex without streaming *bundlebundlebundle* role: feminist :D 13:38 <@riker> later 13:38 <@riker> fine 13:38 yaaaaaaay ♥ 13:38 @riker ask for money to do it 13:38 FIQ: wouldn't that make more sense for monks or something, who have knowledge of how to use that in combat? 13:38 ;) 13:39 aosdict: Possible 13:39 if LarienTelrunya has to pay people to play slex, that's not a good sign for slex. 13:39 aosdict: Well she constantly pesters people into playing slex 13:40 <@Tone> I streamed slex once 13:40 Wouldn't surprise me if slex wouldn't be played half as much without the pestering 13:40 <@riker> is my high heel sandal good 13:40 Tone: omg you did??? gimme link plz ♥ 13:40 <@riker> fiq: lol maybe 13:40 LarienTelrunya: You have seen it 13:40 riker: 1-handed, d9 small, d7 large 13:40 FIQ: I have? 13:40 <@Tone> LarienTelrunya I don't think it exists anymore, this was back in October or November 13:41 awwwwwww I should have saved it while it was still up 13:41 <@Tone> My twitch archives only go back 60 days 13:42 [hdf-us] [slex] rikersan (Fem Ang Mal Cha) shouted "I regret everything", on T:575 13:42 [hdf-us] [slex] rikersan (Fem Ang Mal Cha), 388 points, T:583, killed by kicking a wall 13:42 ...why did you do that 13:43 <@riker> since i couldn't see anything 13:43 <@riker> one of your UI traps broke my terminal 13:43 XL7, int 7, no impeding gear: healing 7, extra healing 100, pw 53 13:43 <@riker> like the terminal not just slex 13:43 oh 13:43 as predicted, I think 13:43 <@riker> the screen didn't update anymore not just on that tab 13:43 !lastgame 13:43 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rikersan/slex/dumplog/1522258713.slex.txt 13:43 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/t/tubs/dnethack/dumplog/1522255812.dnh.txt 13:43 <@riker> other terminal tabs were equally dead >_> 13:43 <@riker> dunno what happened 13:43 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 13:43 <@riker> anyway next time no feminist 13:44 that effect wasn't feminist-specific... 13:44 @riker if that happens, type reset 13:44 but oh well, failed existence next time? ;) 13:44 and enter 13:44 it will fix the terminal 13:44 <@riker> fiq; tried that 13:44 <@riker> it didn't work 13:45 <@riker> I assume it's a slex bug 13:45 LarienTelrunya: please do not add UI screw that last past the game 13:45 <@riker> larien: there were some traps on the previous level 13:45 thank you 13:45 <@riker> >_> 13:45 <@riker> that wasn't intentional I assume 13:45 or I will ask K2 to remove your game for malicious output 13:45 well that UI screw shouldn't exist anymore, no idea why it happened 13:46 <@riker> amy: next time I'll do an angelic wind inhabintant bleeder how about that 13:46 haha, sounds interesting :) do it! 13:46 have you considered, i don't know, maybe not having ui screwovers at all? 13:46 -!- tubs has quit [Quit: *poof*] 13:46 since what do they add to the game except frustration for players 13:46 hothraxxa: jonadab would tell you that ship sailed ages ago 13:46 -!- tubs has joined #hardfought 13:46 yeah that's jonadab 13:46 hothraxxa: I have given up on asking for that 13:47 now i get to nag about it 13:47 but at least there shouldn't be UI screw that outright breaks your terminal 13:47 as a matter of fact I don't put in stuff just to remove it later 13:47 that is outright malicious 13:47 FIQ: yes, that is a bug 13:48 <@riker> started it, will continue later 13:48 ok 13:48 Doesn't the EPI list have UI screw that corrupts your filesystem? 13:48 -!- tubs has quit [Client Quit] 13:48 That seems worse than messing up a terminal session. 13:48 amy, have you removed ui traps from slex yet? 13:48 just checking 13:49 hothraxxa: nope, never will, you can stop asking me about it :P 13:49 <@riker> actually that should probably be a rc option 13:49 <@riker> or at least a compile option (no UI traps) 13:49 -!- mpt| has joined #hardfought 13:49 okay i won't ask. i'll just remind you once in a while how annoying they are, how's that 13:49 sure :) 13:50 btw, if they're annoying, it means they're working as intended 13:50 i've heard that somewhere 13:51 this is why fiq hates your game. you're the anti-fiq 13:51 anti-fiq 13:52 hahahahahahah 13:52 FIQ: thoughts on each level of int or XL adding +5% while each successive spell level is -25%, meaning in order to get the same factor for the next level spell you have to gain 5 total Int or XL to make up for it? 13:52 gain 5 int? how are you supposed to do that? 13:52 LarienTelrunya: if your variant causes terminal issues outside of the game, we're gojng to have a problem 13:53 Actually, NH4 does that. 13:53 If mouse is enabled in the options. 13:53 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 3282 points, T:716, killed by a hill orc 13:53 K2: it's a bug! if I can track down how it's caused, I'll fix it 13:53 Which is why it's off by default in Fourk. 13:53 thanks 13:54 hothraxxa: I have already concluded that slex is the anti-thesis of fiqhack 13:54 it used to be far worse (the terminal corrupting issue), I already took steps to greatly mitigate it, but apparently I have overlooked something that only happens very rarely and riker happened to trigger it somehow 13:54 they have opposite design goals 13:54 In fact, having mouse enabled in NH4 can mess up a dgl watcher's terminal. 13:54 which also explains why LarienTelrunya is no fan of fiqhack 13:54 wait, actually I think I know how it's caused 13:54 slex? 13:54 * LarienTelrunya goes to check riker's ttyrec 13:55 <@riker> > The monster class that cannot be genocided is lich. 13:55 i'm pretty sure it's caused by slex 13:55 <@riker> would have been nice to know that before I tried to geno arch-lichs 13:55 aosdict: isn't that exactly how it works right now? 13:55 <@riker> >_> 13:55 hothraxxa: Heh. 13:55 hothraxxa: So is alids. HTH.HAND. 13:55 FIQ: yes, it is. do you feel it's a bit unfair? 13:55 [hdf-us] [slex] rikerw (Cha Ang Mal Cha), 68697 points, T:6313, quit 13:56 riker: do you know at which point the issue appeared? i.e. the terminal breaking? 13:56 aosdict: ah. No, I think that is reasonable. I think the fix here is to increase the affected roles' Int scores 13:56 was it exactly at the turn you used quit, or earlier? 13:56 (the roles where they're actually supposed to cast, I mean) 13:56 I believe the +5% Int +5% XL came from your proposal which was simply +0% Int +10% XL, meaning you could actually increase it more effectively 13:56 since it's hard to gain Int 13:57 we need books of knowledge 13:57 @riker you here? please answer, this is important because I want to fix that bug 13:57 This is probably a duplicate, but YANI: blessed !oGA increases one attribute by one point, but it lets you choose. 13:57 aosdict: My proposal was a joke. That's why it had like, 2 factors 13:57 IMO, it should be kind of hard to increase, so we don't have people running around casting magic missile as XL3 barbarians. 13:57 Unless they do exotic tricks. 13:57 If it happens to work, that is just a fluke 13:58 i agree it should be hard to increase, but i'd like a book of knowledge. rare but anyone can read one and get smarter 13:58 i guess a scroll of knowledge 13:59 <@riker> larien: no it happened before I went downstiars. I gained an xp level and stepped on a trap, it was probably one of those 13:59 <@riker> iirc I stepped on teh trap while using the travel command (but after the xp level) 13:59 <@riker> it then updated the screen sporadically 14:00 hothraxxa: knowledge != intelligence though 14:00 ah 14:00 <@riker> I do have to leave now tho o/ 14:00 :( 14:00 well I do have a suspicion, and will push a hotfix 14:00 aosdict: i know, but you can exercise knowledge by reading the right books 14:00 my suspicion is that it wasn't actually because of whatever nasty trap you triggered there (blue spell trap I think) but because of the loudspeaker 14:00 er intelligence 14:03 -!- tubs has joined #hardfought 14:05 pager.c line 5061: "Incoming message for Player 1. The message is from ''. It reads: '   '", 14:05 huh the part inside the '' doesn't even render on my screen 14:05 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 8753 points, T:2482, killed by an owlbear 14:05 anyway that's the line I suspect to be the cause 14:07 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought 14:08 !tell K2 pushed a commit that hopefully fixes the terminal-screwing bug riker encountered. Please use the slex-2.1.7 branch for updating; the master branch breaks saves and isn't ready yet. :) 14:08 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 14:13 [hdf-us] [un] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Croesus, on T:21716 14:15 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 14:15 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 14:15 hothraxxa: I would be all right with some rare, non-farmable cases of exercising intelligence. Like learning a spell for the first time. 14:16 consulting the oracle 14:16 Could probably also steal some from the too-many ways to exercise Wisdom. 14:17 doesn't dnethack have exercise-able intelligence? 14:17 Consulting the oracle for the first time, or only for major oracularities. 14:17 YANI: ^^ 14:18 <@kritixilithos> YANI: sokoban exercises intelligence 14:18 ok 14:18 K2: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-03-28 14:08 EDT: pushed a commit that hopefully fixes the terminal-screwing bug riker encountered. Please use the slex-2.1.7 branch for updating; the master branch breaks saves and isn't ready yet. :) 14:18 scale them. 1 for 500, 5000 for the second, 50000 for the third 14:18 <@kritixilithos> each time a boulder falls down a pit, you exercise int 14:19 @kritixilithos that would be a little too generous 14:19 hothraxxa: scale what, the prices? 14:19 yeah 14:19 LarienTelrunya: i'm noticing that patchlevel.h was modified 14:19 is this savebreaking? 14:20 K2: what??? are you in the correct branch, i.e. slex-2.1.7? 14:20 yes 14:20 ugh 14:20 <@kritixilithos> well there aren't that many pits in soko 14:20 hothraxxa: I'd rather just do it the first time, since that's an achievement and all. 14:20 From https://github.com/SLASHEM-Extended/SLASHEM-Extended 14:20 6889f0d..f2ed2b9 master -> origin/master 14:20 * [new branch] slex-2.1.7 -> origin/slex-2.1.7 14:20 Updating 6889f0d..f2ed2b9 14:20 hothraxxa: I kind of want new players to be able to consult the oracle affordably if they want. 14:20 But yes, _first_ time would be reasonable for exercising something hard-to-exercise, since it can only happen once. 14:21 K2: wtf, https://github.com/SLASHEM-Extended/SLASHEM-Extended/tree/slex-2.1.7/include says patchlevel.h was updated 2 months ago or so 14:21 @kritixilithos There are, like, over 20 on the last levels alone. Probably around 70 total. 14:21 exercise does not translate into a point 14:21 and with very few ways to do it 14:21 Indeed. 14:21 #define VERSION_MAJOR 2 #define VERSION_MINOR 1 /* * PATCHLEVEL is updated for each release. */ #define PATCHLEVEL 7 14:21 you will basically never get one 14:21 i have not changed the branch I pull from 14:21 FIQ: that's the idea. 14:21 ^ 14:21 The real way to increase Int is to use gain ability, or eat flayers. 14:21 so the idea is to have some feature that will basically not have any effect? 14:21 Both of which are resource-intensive. 14:21 K2: what is PATCHLEVEL set to in that (allegedly changed) patchlevel.h? 14:22 not to make Int freely exercisable, but to make it possible to do with low chance. 14:22 one sec 14:22 Or sufficient effort. 14:22 <@kritixilithos> fair enough 14:22 I think you need minimum 10 exercise points (and a lot of luck at that point) within 500 turns 14:22 to go from 9 -> 10 14:22 #define VERSION_MAJOR 2 14:22 #define VERSION_MINOR 1 14:22 #define PATCHLEVEL 8 14:22 (not 500 exactly, I meant the exercise timer) 14:22 LarienTelrunya: the usual practice is to just increment patchlevel by 1 point, when doing anything that breaks save compat. 14:23 K2: if it updated to commit f2ed2b9 then you're somehow on the master branch instead of 2.1.7 14:23 i'm on branch 2.1.7 14:23 last commit in slex-2.1.7 would be 7e85dcf 14:23 LarienTelrunya: K2 pasted showing that he is on the 2.1.7 branch 14:23 as stated earlier a few moments ago 14:23 K2: 7e85dcfb0b0121aa22008265416732a96ea43685 14:24 but this is impossible, there is no commit on f2ed2b9 on the slex-2.1.7 branch 14:24 This is the last commit in the 2.1.7 branch 14:24 What does git log give you? 14:24 hmm 14:24 git branch 14:24 * master 14:24 slex-2.1.1 14:25 i havent compiled anything yet 14:25 easy enough to blank it out and pull down fresh 14:25 the branch we want to use is slex-2.1.7 14:26 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Mon Elf Fem Cha), 25882 points, T:5305, killed by a gray unicorn 14:27 K2: git pull 14:27 then git checkout slex-2.1.7 14:27 omg FIQ 14:27 thank you 14:27 ... 14:29 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1863 14:30 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 9678 points, T:1982, killed by Mr. Izchak, the shopkeeper, while praying 14:34 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 3458 points, T:639, killed by a rock piercer 14:34 compiling 14:34 found it prudent to make clean | make spotless 14:35 because slex 14:35 :D 14:36 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 1763 points, T:391, killed by a gnome 14:39 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:471 14:39 Unix SlashEMExtended Version 2.1.7 (7e85dcf) - last build Wed Mar 28 14:34:49 2018. 14:40 on hdf us 14:40 yeah that looks right :) 14:40 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 3459 points, T:589, killed by a gnome 14:40 did you have a game saved on hdf-us for slex amy? 14:40 don't think so, but I have one on hdf-eu 14:40 I can test though 14:41 i havent patched eu yet 14:41 oh I did have one :D it works! thanks!!! 14:41 oh whew 14:41 i couldnt remember if i had a saved game on slex or not (i didnt) 14:41 i dont want to fuck up tariru's game 14:42 LarienTelrunya please save your eu slex game 14:42 yeah that would be terrible 14:42 done! can I load it again? 14:42 wait 14:42 i'll say when 14:42 ok, I'll brb anyway :) 14:42 ok you can load 14:43 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 2186 points, T:332, killed by Ms. Kalecik, the shopkeeper 14:45 Version mismatch for file "5AmyBSOD". 14:46 uhh... 14:46 good thing I made it so that this doesn't delete the save :P K2: there's something wrong on hdf-eu 14:46 i got same thing (had a eu game saved) 14:46 it might have installed 2.1.8 14:46 no it didnt 14:47 there's something completely wrong on hdf-eu, when trying to start a new game I get a buffer overflow or something 14:47 now getting buffer overflow trying to start new game on eu 14:48 the build and install process is identical between both servers 14:48 hmm 14:48 to be clear - your saved slex game on hdf-us worked correct? 14:48 K2: is that sarcasm 14:49 probably 14:49 yes, that one was from before we updated and hitting v now says: Unix SlashEMExtended Version 2.1.7 (7e85dcf) - last build Wed Mar 28 14:34:49 2018. 14:49 I meant your reply to me 14:49 oh 14:49 yes definetly 14:49 ok 14:51 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:659 14:57 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 5759 points, T:1466, killed by a crocodile 14:57 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 888 points, T:103, killed by a water demon 15:01 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 15:02 !tell Chris_ANG seriously, what's up with dnethack crashes always claiming false trickeries that erase your game. My chiropteran samurai (dnhslex) just wanted to open the discoveries screen and blam. 15:02 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 15:02 what the hell shall I play now? slex on hdf-eu doesn't start and dnhslex apparently crashes when you open the discoveries 15:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 3314 points, T:859, killed by a crocodile of Offler, while fainted from lack of food 15:03 recompiling slex on eu 15:03 * LarienTelrunya crosses fingers 15:04 (or whatever it was to wish good luck; in Germany we would "press our thumbs") 15:04 Tariru: looks like you just saved your slex game a few min ago. any issues? 15:05 okay this is unbearable. I'll get a core dump and backtrace from that discoveries crash. 15:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 3586 points, T:849, killed by a small mimic 15:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 43 points, T:133, killed by a newt 15:08 !tell Chris dnhslex (and thus probably dnethack 3.15.2 too) discoveries crash: starting a chiropteran samurai and open discoveries leaves an unrecoverable savegame, gdb says this: https://pastebin.com/raw/pKbwAjtx - I can't make heads or tails of it but it might be helpful for you 15:08 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 15:11 LarienTelrunya try hdf-eu now (slex) 15:11 hah wait dont 15:11 jesus wtf 15:11 heh, I didn't yet ;) 15:11 Unix SlashEMExtended Version 2.1.8 (d91dd1d) - last build Wed Mar 28 19:03:30 2018. 15:11 but i'm on 2.1.7 branch 15:12 it must somehow have compiled 2.1.8 15:12 <[Demo]> hey amy maybe its cause u enable chriop on samurai 15:12 obviously 15:12 git branch 15:12 master 15:12 slex-2.1.1 15:12 * slex-2.1.7 15:12 and it still compiled a 2.1.8?! wtf 15:13 <[Demo]> wow slex is broken forever 15:13 i can fix this... one moment 15:17 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1263 15:19 K2 when in doubt 15:19 blame the dev 15:19 i already did silently 15:19 yes, use this advice for FIQHack too 15:19 and xnh 15:19 <[Demo]> and gh 15:19 nah 15:20 everyone blames grunt 15:20 it isn't hip to do 15:20 <[Demo]> it will be eventually 15:20 <[Demo]> after it stops being cool 15:20 !rng play | don't 15:20 FIQ: don't 15:20 ok I will not 15:22 <[Demo]> fuck u amy ur slex is still broken :( 15:22 how so? 15:22 <[Demo]> uhhh 15:22 <[Demo]> what 15:22 <[Demo]> so i was playing my monk 15:22 <[Demo]> from a while ago 15:22 <[Demo]> ohhhh 15:22 <[Demo]> u save broke 15:22 <[Demo]> goddamit 15:22 <[Demo]> fuck 15:22 but you were in the game! I could see you play! 15:23 <[Demo]> ok so basically i was playing my monk from a while ago and i decided to farlook a monster and it crashed and autorecover isnt working because now it wants me to start a game on the new version 15:23 if you're getting segfaults it would be really helpful for me to know how they're triggered and everything 15:23 <[Demo]> so nvm not ur fault 15:23 well we don't know, we have to find out why it crashed 15:23 <[Demo]> actually, you should never have had the bug in the first place! 15:23 <[Demo]> this is an old version 15:23 my suspicion is that your terminal was too big 15:24 <[Demo]> did you never fix the large terminal farlook crash bug? 15:24 farlook is known to crash occasionally when the terminal is too large 15:24 compiling 15:24 <[Demo]> christ 15:24 <[Demo]> fuck slex 15:24 I have no idea how to fix it, because the crash is caught by glibc and gdb only returns gibberish from those 15:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 11741 points, T:2505, killed by touching Excalibur 15:24 at least if it's that kind of crash, that is 15:24 LarienTelrunya: use valgrind then 15:24 you are probably fucking up the stack or something 15:24 if gdb is useless 15:24 <[Demo]> im gonna exploit the fuck out of that during jnh 15:25 you must have done something really weird 15:25 to cause this 15:25 What is a jnh? 15:25 well the pokedex messages are kinda long, maybe they don't like being displayed on a 211x58 terminal 15:25 junethack 15:26 tubs ^^ 15:26 <[Demo]> junethack is called demo drops a shit ton of unreported exploits hes been building up and plays with worse ethics than a bill cosby during naptime 15:27 So you paralyse/sleep the monsters then "charm" them? 15:27 <[Demo]> that was a joke i havent actually been building up fun bugs 15:27 Is there an un-fun bug, in general, in life? :) 15:27 -!- Tariru has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:28 heh 15:29 I say that, but once I did actually set a machine on fire due to a misread decimal place. That was both fun, but also not fun at the same time. 15:32 tubs did it look like this? https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10398357_127503042892_810305_n.jpg?oh=5abccb4804e684b585b9b6433ab501a2&oe=5B3BEDD1 15:33 LarienTelrunya... 15:33 Unix SlashEMExtended Version 2.1.8 (523d991) - last build Wed Mar 28 19:24:42 2018. 15:33 Sadly no, it was a lab machine that was supposed to only get to 90C, but it tried really really hard to get to 900. 15:33 i completely deleted my git repo on the eu server 15:33 redownloaded fresh 15:33 checked out 2.1.7 branch 15:33 and recompiled 15:33 from scratch 15:34 <[Demo]> why does fiqhack have xnh casting? 15:34 how can this be? what does patchlevel.h say? 15:34 maybe it compiled into the wrong folder? 15:35 2,1, 8 15:35 one sec 15:35 that's the master branch then :( 15:36 no it did not compile into wrong folder 15:36 git branch 15:36 master 15:36 * slex-2.1.7 15:38 gonna try this again, but use -b switch on clone 15:40 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1797 15:40 !tell Chris_ANG these messages are misleading: You miss the uninjured grid bug. The uninjured grid bug just misses! You hit the bloodied grid bug. The bloodied grid bug bites! - shouldn't the grid bug be "bloodied" only after I hit him? The messages sound like he was bloodied before the hit and is now wounded worse... 15:40 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 15:44 ok Amy. I cloned 2.1.7 branch specifically 15:44 -!- deadnoob_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44 does patchlevel.h show the correct values now? 15:44 yes 15:44 ffs 15:44 then we should be good to go :) 15:44 dont jinx it 15:45 sorry 15:45 :) 15:45 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 15:45 !8ball will slex compile work this time? 15:45 K2: Very doubtful 15:45 hah 15:45 "very doubtful" is still higher than 0% chance I hope? :D 15:47 compiling 15:48 !8ball will slex break saves this time? 15:48 aosdict: Outlook good 15:48 -!- jared55 has joined #hardfought 15:51 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought 16:00 hdf-eu - Unix SlashEMExtended Version 2.1.7 (7e85dcf) - last build Wed Mar 28 19:48:18 2018. 16:00 brb 16:00 okay my BSOD2 test account can enter the game; now to test with my actual character... *shiver* 16:01 YESSSSSSSS it worked :D:D:D many thanks for updating, K2! everything is working ♥ 16:01 *hug* 16:01 yay 16:01 aosdict: I did get the version mismatch on my promising character, yes. But slex makes it so that the save isn't deleted. And now I'm playing that save again. :D 16:01 Slash'EM Extended updated (us and eu) 16:01 god help us all 16:02 [hdf-us] [fh] Jared (Jared55) (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 29545 points, T:1464, killed by a dwarf mummy 16:02 and now hopefully the terminal screwup bug that riker encountered should be gone! 16:09 What was it the cause in the end? 16:10 the probable cause was a message in pager.c using control characters 16:10 Yikes, I'm glad I don't ever have to do UI stuff... 16:11 who knows, designing new nethack variants seems to be a hip thing nowadays, maybe one day you'll also make your own variant ;) 16:11 Wait I just realised you are @FIQ of fiqhack fame? Can I harass you at some point re: getting fiqhack to compile on MacOS, I gave it a go a few days back but ran into a few problems, entirely likely because I have no idea how to use a Mac... 16:11 tubs: who, me? I'm AmyBSOD of SLASH'EM Extended fame; FIQ is also in this channel and his nick is FIQ, obviously ;) 16:11 I did try once, about 10 years ago... 16:11 Yes, that one 16:12 The FIQ person. *pokes* 16:12 FIQ: you are being bundled by tubs! ;) 16:12 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 36818 points, T:4084, killed by a pit viper 16:12 FIQ is being encouraged to play slex by tubs? 16:12 :D 16:13 Why on earth would I play slex 16:13 tubs: hmm 16:13 There is 2 ways to compile FIQHack 16:14 FIQ: hahaha, because you want to be king of the world maybe? 16:14 One way that I use myself because it is like 5x faster and thus much more convenient when developing 16:14 But has some issues 16:14 One way that comes with its own issues, but those are mostly performance-related 16:14 How did you try to build? 16:14 * aosdict signs the petition for KotW to not include slex because it takes too long and is not proved ascendable by non-Amys 16:14 mkdir build; cd build; perl ../aimake --without=gui .. 16:15 And then get: Rule 'find_default_dynamic_libraries' on object 'sys:no_object' failed to match output (?^s:^(?:(?:-l|lib)[^ ]+ )?\(?(.*?/.*?(? at ../aimake line 6617. 16:15 main::__ANON__('Rule \'find_default_dynamic_libraries\' on object \'sys:no_ob...') called at ../aimake line 9642 16:15 tubs: Sorry, I don't really speak aimake. Basically when I compile using it, I hope and pray that it works 16:15 And if it doesn't, I'm helpless 16:15 No problem. :) 16:15 You can try 2 things here 16:16 1: just wait and ask ais523 once he decides to show up 16:16 2: use the Makefile I use when developing 16:16 FIQ has fans? 16:16 Ah there is a good old Makefile? I can definitely try that. 16:16 You should probably at least try #2, but I have no gurantees for it working 16:16 FIQ (Dev Hum Mal Law), 320428 points, T:23498, killed by aimake, while helpless 16:16 K2 how else would he stay cool? 16:16 lol 16:16 bwahahahah 16:17 tubs: anyway, the Makefile is set up as such to create a build in ~/fiqhackdir 16:17 if you don't like this, change the top of it 16:17 'hello, this is FIQ's personal assistant, how may i direct your call?' 16:17 if that is OK, just make && make install 16:17 'I'm sorry, Mr. FIQ is too awesome to come to the phone right now, can I take a message?' 16:18 [hdf-us] [fh] Jared (Jared55) (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 30597 points, T:1218, poisoned by a rabid rat 16:18 * aosdict wonders why a personal assistant would need to direct calls 16:18 because 16:18 tubs: The makefile was actually created by someone who uses OSX himself, allthough I had to do some minor tweaks to get it working on Linux 16:18 It is possible that those tweaks broke OSX building, but hopefully not 16:18 maybe they need to be directed to his personal masseuse 16:18 Make sure you have flex and bison 16:19 or his personal groundskeeper 16:19 or his personal keyboard typist 16:19 (he has a person that dictates and types for him, even during nethack play) 16:19 -!- jared55 has quit [Quit: *poof*] 16:20 "too awesome to come to the phone right now" kind of sounds like the thing one would say if answering the phone while high 16:20 aosdict: hahaha 16:20 ~/fiqhack works for me, I should have all the dependencies, I built the abominationglory that is slex earlier. 16:20 Heh 16:20 i actually stole it from hitchhikers guide ;) 16:20 Hm. It has been too many years since I read those books. 16:20 Yeah, NH4 has some additional dependecies, but they should already be on your system if you're on something that isn't Windows 16:21 tubs: fiqhackdir btw, not fiqhack (in case you later on have trouble finding where stuff went..) 16:22 K2: I have a ton of assistans. How else do you think I do rapid bug fixes? 16:22 i know right? 16:22 FIQ, thanks, that worked! 16:22 tubs: good to know. Enjoy :) 16:23 wooo 16:23 Out of curiousity, how come you don't play on hdf? 16:23 Too much lag? 16:23 I feel pretty dumb though - I had done 'find . -iname Makefile' but the makefile is GNUmakefile so I didn't see it! 16:23 that sweet, sweet wizard mode? 16:23 <[Demo]> uhh fiq 16:23 Nah, it's when I'm on the tube or otherwise net-less. 16:23 <[Demo]> wow i feel dumb 16:23 uhh [Demo] 16:23 <[Demo]> i thought something was broken 16:23 tubs: Fair enough 16:23 <[Demo]> but i guess when i foudn this hat it was +6 16:23 <[Demo]> wow 16:24 <[Demo]> lucky elf 16:24 [Demo]: NH4 (not just FIQHack) removed the restriction on XL for rne 16:24 Meaning things can generate up to +10 from the getgo 16:24 no arbitrary requirement of being XL30 16:24 By the amount of death spam you've seen today I've been hitting the server pretty hard, and sucking pretty hard. I hadn't played for about 10 years but got a sudden yearning. I smash the keyboard with too little though. :) 16:24 tubs: Heh. I am no better myself... 16:25 My play generally consist of "kill a bunch of characters until one sticks" 16:25 It took me 4 years to ascend in vanilla, I think it was a chaotic ranger that got super lucky. :) 16:25 Unless 4k wiz. Then I die randomly and suddenly on like dlvl27 with the game being a breeze up to that point 16:25 Live fast die a legend!!! 16:25 I see 16:26 I took a couple of months to ascend. But I was very lucky that game, and basically turned the wiki upside down 16:26 and absorbed all the info 16:26 Haha! :) I'm enjoying dnethack and fiqhack at the moment purely because the wiki doesn't have much info so I'm source-diving more. Still have no idea what a jackal mask does though! 16:27 A jackal mask makes your polyform a jackal if you blunder into a polytrap 16:27 or similar uncontrolled polymorph 16:27 They're mostly useless otherwise. They're intended as a feature for an upcoming race in development hell for years 16:28 A mask of a form that doesn't break armor on polymorph is pretty useful 16:28 Means you don't need to be concerned with that 16:28 Even more useful if the mask is of a strong monster, unlike jackals 16:28 <[Demo]> why doesnt speed monster wand remove slowness in fh? 16:29 [Demo]: It was to not trivialize removal of Slow 16:29 Plenty of charges and the wand is common 16:29 <[Demo]> how do i make it go away? 16:29 Drink blessed speed monster or just wait it out 16:29 <[Demo]> fuck 16:30 <[Demo]> oh cool 16:30 <[Demo]> thought that just as it ended another floating eye spawned 16:30 FIQ thanks for the info :) 16:30 Technically cursed wonder can also remove it 16:30 and gremlins 16:31 But only if you got it intrinsically 16:31 <@mtf> wand of speed monster should totally remove slowness 16:31 <@mtf> why have I not thought of this 16:31 Which is only possible from wonder 16:31 <@mtf> if you think it's OP, nerf the wand and lower its # of charges 16:31 <@mtf> the wand is almost entirely useless otherwise 16:31 @mtf I explained why I didn't give it the ability earlier 16:31 <@mtf> I know, but what I'm saying is it that explanation doesn't make sense 16:32 Maybe on Master... 16:32 <@mtf> hmm 16:32 I hate speed, I wish it acted like protection so you can stack it up but it only lasts a short time. 16:32 But consider the ways you can remove slow monster right now 16:32 FIQ: masks occupy the eyes slot, I presume? 16:32 <@mtf> I dunno, I think expert at least 16:32 All of them is pretty hard 16:32 <@mtf> so skilled + blessed could use it 16:32 <@mtf> and again, feel free to nerf the wand's drop rate and # of charges 16:32 Wands of slow monster on the other hand is really common 16:32 Has several charges 16:32 Can be recharged 16:33 @mtf I don't like special casing charges on wands 16:33 I did it on create monster because it was a bit ridiculous 16:33 <@mtf> but it's kinda required for balance 16:33 <@mtf> like CM, exactly 16:33 I don't want to do it on speed monster if I can get away with just not implementing it 16:33 <@mtf> WoW is another example 16:33 aosdict: yes 16:33 @mtf >I don't want to do it on speed monster if I can get away with just not implementing it 16:34 Or would you rather I add the ability for speed monster to remove Slow 16:34 <@mtf> meh, I think it's the perfect opportunity to make that wand useful 16:34 ...and changed the AI to actually realize the usefulness of slow monster? 16:34 And thus priority it 16:34 <@mtf> hmm 16:34 K2: I just saved because I had to go eat, was there something up with the updating? 16:34 Or was that EU only? 16:35 <@mtf> I guess if the wand should remove slow, then the spell should too 16:35 just EU side 16:35 all resolved now 16:35 @mtf No, that would be far too easy, and Wiz is already OP 16:35 <@mtf> I'm not opposed to making AI use slow monster more effectively 16:35 Good to know. 16:35 <@mtf> I mean, if the slowness is magically caused, why can't it be magically removed 16:35 It can 16:35 With a potion 16:36 <@mtf> I don't count potions as magic 😛 16:36 cursed gain level 16:36 consumable/renewable principle mtf 16:36 gain energy 16:36 wonder 16:36 wand of speed monster is also a consumable, it has limited charges :P 16:37 <@mtf> ok I understand the idea that right now it would be too easy to remove slow with speed wands, but right now the wand is completely useless 16:37 <@mtf> I'm suggesting ideas to make it useful 16:37 that is not true 16:37 <@mtf> you can balance around that if you need 16:37 it gives a rather large time of very fast speed 16:37 Arguably less consumable than a potion. One wand has many zaps, especially with recharging. 16:37 <@mtf> you can't get extrinsic speed from it 16:37 ...? 16:37 that is its entire purpose 16:37 in FIQHack 16:37 <@mtf> oh has it been changed in FH? 16:37 vanilla speed monster wands give intrinsic speed 16:37 and nothing else 16:37 <@mtf> I just assumed it always gave you intrinsic 16:38 <@mtf> like vanilla 16:38 ...wand rebalance? hello? 16:38 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:38 <@mtf> well I've never noticed it saying anything that resembled me moving faster on top of my intrinsic speed 16:38 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Wands_Balance_Patch 16:38 look at speed monster 16:39 <@mtf> hmm just never noticed I guess 16:39 you know 16:39 <@mtf> alright I guess it's not as useless then 16:39 monsters zap themselves 16:39 and others 16:39 with speed 16:39 that is like 90% of the reason you find very fast monsters in FIQHack 16:39 <@mtf> well yea, but I assumed that just gave them intrinsic speed 16:39 it's not like speed boots suddenly became more common 16:40 @mtf *very fast* 16:40 is 5/3x speed 16:40 <@mtf> I know what it is, but I don't often look at monster speeds in game 16:40 have you never noticed how some monsters in FIQhack are much faster than vanilla? 16:40 <@mtf> other than dragons? nope 16:40 <@mtf> lol 16:40 I recall some people complaining 16:40 about monsters hitting like 7 times 16:40 where do you think this burst of speed came frorm 16:40 *from 16:41 it was most likely from a wand 16:41 of speed monster 16:41 <@mtf> you mean my bones? he had speed boots 16:41 or potion 16:41 It's usually the ladies who complain about me hitting 7 times before I get the hint. :( 16:41 @mtf ok yeah, but that isn't the only case 16:41 <@mtf> well alright 16:42 <@mtf> wands of speed monster aren't as bad as I thought 16:42 @mtf I've had orc temples 16:42 with groups of orcs 16:42 the temple is fully lit so you see what everone is doing 16:42 some orc spawns with a wand of speed monster 16:42 zaps everything in sight 16:42 and now you're dealing with orcs that aren't actually slow 16:42 which can actually pose a threat because there's so many of them 16:43 and then there's that one orc shaman standing behind the group 16:43 pelting you with magic missiles 16:44 <@mtf> sounds like brogue orcs 16:44 <@mtf> err, goblins 16:44 heh 16:44 orc temple is prone to this kind of behaviour 16:44 plenty of orcs, it's likely that at least one of them spawns with heplful wands 16:44 *helpful wands 16:44 it's worse if they spawn with polymorph 16:48 <[Demo]> "You kill the ape! Your conscience bothers you... " what? 16:49 you killed a peaceful, or formely peaceful 16:49 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:4408 16:51 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Mon Hum Mal Neu) polymorphed his first object, on T:12417 16:51 <[Demo]> i dont think i did though 16:51 <[Demo]> i killed an ape that wasnt very friendly seeming 16:52 <[Demo]> can apes be generated peaceful for neutrals? 17:01 yes 17:01 [hdf-us] [slex] Tariru (Rog Ang Fem Cha) killed Dad Manger, on T:67363 17:02 <[Demo]> women arent capable of being lizards 17:02 [hdf-us] [fh] sorry (Demo) (Hea Hum Fem Neu) received Cleaver from Hermes, on T:10341 17:02 <[Demo]> oi 17:03 Dunno, we've always told my mom she's cold-blooded. On account of her body doesn't produce any heat, it'll be 78 degrees in the house and she'll be wearing a sweater and complaining she's "freezing". 17:03 [hdf-us] [slex] Tariru (Rog Ang Fem Cha) killed the Kary, the Fiend of Fire, on T:67406 17:03 <[Demo]> i keep getting only female lizards 17:03 <[Demo]> and its annoying cause i wanted to only be able to sac them without them stacking with the one im carrying 17:04 #name 17:04 I'm implementing random labels for randomly generated tins. Any ideas? 17:04 "Grade AAA Finest" 17:04 "Not labeled for individual resale." 17:04 "Mushy Peas" 17:05 "Yendorian Brand Applesauce" is my favorite 17:05 "Fancy Feast" 17:05 <[Demo]> how does fh cleaver work? 17:05 "Chickatrice of the Sea" 17:05 <[Demo]> heh 17:06 heh, fancy feast is cat food? nice 17:06 It is. 17:07 "Patent Pending" 17:07 "Always Fresh" 17:07 "Schroedinger's Tin" 17:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) was given Mirror Brand, on T:6857 17:07 <@mtf> FIQ: I have had conscience messages when killing snakes that were under items 17:07 <@mtf> as both L and N 17:07 <@mtf> wanted to bring that up actually 17:07 <@mtf> cause it seems weird 17:08 "Sell by January 1958" 17:11 "Wizard's Best Tinnery" 17:11 ooh should have an andy warhol reference 17:12 Oh, yes. 17:12 "Rothe-N-Beans" 17:13 <[Demo]> unicorn horn or cleaver in fiqhack for healer? 17:18 Well, if you have any more keep 'em coming, but I have 17 now, including 2 with randomizable format strings 17:18 "Gluten-Free" 17:19 "No Trans-Fats" 17:19 "98% Arsennic Free" 17:19 Err, *Arsenic 17:19 I will combine those and add Non-GMO 17:19 Ah. 17:19 yeah. 17:20 feed your head 17:21 Maybe also "Dolphin-Safe" into that. If it's not too much. 17:22 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:27 <[Demo]> do levels lost from drainage come back fast in fh? 17:28 <[Demo]> oh my they do 17:29 "Tinned in light syrup" vs "Tinned in sparkling fountain water" perhaps? 17:30 <[Demo]> yey i lost my expert in knife 17:30 <[Demo]> and now i have the slots back 17:30 why did you advance knife? 17:30 [hdf-us] [nd] redshirt (Rog Orc Mal Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:40704 17:31 * aosdict tries to think of the vegetable that is nastiest when it comes in tins 17:31 honestly, probably spinach 17:32 spinach is way up there, but it's already taken 17:32 <[Demo]> for scalpel 17:32 <[Demo]> cause thats all i had 17:32 which variant? 17:32 <[Demo]> fh 17:32 hm 17:32 <[Demo]> my to hit was shit and it made me sad 17:32 i've played a lot of healers and i don't think i've ever advanced knife 17:33 you pick up the first dagger you find and advance that 17:33 well, i do 17:33 aosdict: love the "hold a wand to get a bonus to spell" mechanic. 17:33 in xnh, that is 17:33 <[Demo]> dagger gets like +2 tohit? 17:33 the new xnh scalpel means i might advance knife to skilled 17:33 maybe 17:33 glad you like it, it seemed thematic 17:33 probably not 17:33 whats different there? 17:34 I multishot knives on my last healer asc, it was fun 17:34 <[Demo]> oh wow yeah daggers a much better choice 17:34 <[Demo]> oh well 17:34 also love the creative use of the "wand of nothing" being useful for something 17:34 I miss my identify spell, tho :( 17:34 you really shouldn't 17:34 i don't find that to be a problem. you just adjust the way you go about identifying stuff 17:35 Hmm I should have a tin label that claims it's an artifact. 17:35 aosdict: Peas. 17:35 <[Demo]> thats something slex would do 17:35 I like peas, but canned peas are *nasty*. 17:35 whirled peas 17:35 Yes. 17:35 Canned spinach is ok, IMO. 17:36 ewww 17:36 hothraxxa: it's not the worst thing. 17:36 I already have "Extra-Mushy Pea Soup" 17:36 Well, you have to like _cooked_ spinach. 17:36 perhaps should merge them 17:36 spinach makes me gag 17:36 You could also go for something rather off the wall, like "spiced rutabega" 17:36 "saag paneer" 17:36 <[Demo]> a tin labeled Amy's tears 17:36 Sauerkraut? 17:36 dragon fruit 17:36 Sauerkraut, yes. 17:36 bouquet: saag paneer is delicious though 17:37 (imo) 17:37 Tinned peaches are always nasty, because they pick them green. 17:37 +1 [Demo] 17:37 Home-canned peaches are _fantastic_, but the store-tinned ones, eww. 17:37 There's always "Finest Caviar" 17:38 "Limburger Cheese" 17:39 canned pizza 17:39 Haha, that's horrible. I love it. 17:39 "Dried Prunes" 17:40 "Babyfood - Lasagna & Crisps" 17:40 "Yams and Raisins in Molasses" 17:40 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (class L), on T:31133 17:41 <[Demo]> oh lord, canned pizza is a thing 17:41 "Sago Paste", but nobody would get the joke. 17:41 [Demo]: Eww, no. I choose to believe you are making that fact up. FOr my sanity. 17:42 La, la, la, la, lah. 17:42 * jonadab puts his fingers in his ears and goes afk now. 17:42 <[Demo]> id try it 17:44 <[Demo]> how does fiqhack identification work? 17:45 iirc, all scrolls identify 1-7 items, the info you get depends on the buc of the scroll 17:46 <[Demo]> how does the spell work at unskilled? 17:46 i don't recall and it's probably different now anyway 17:46 <[Demo]> heh 17:47 Goodnight all, thanks for answering/helping with my super-dumb issues. :) 17:48 -!- tubs has quit [Quit: *poof*] 17:49 <[Demo]> tharr be dragons! 17:49 <[Demo]> on healer quest! 17:50 <[Demo]> oh fuck i forgot fh dragons were turbo 17:51 <[Demo]> wonder how tamable they are 17:57 just as tamable as vanilla 17:57 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:57 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 17:57 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 18:00 jonadab, hothraxxa, anyone else interested in the full list: https://pastebin.com/NMXU9XwK 18:00 Thanks everyone! 18:00 <[Demo]> fuck fuck fuck canceled abort abort abort 18:00 <[Demo]> how do i fix this 18:03 hah nice list aosdict 18:06 <[Demo]> oh fuck i can pray the cancellation away? 18:08 [hdf-us] [fh] sorry (Demo) (Hea Hum Fem Neu) received Trollsbane from Hermes, on T:18121 18:08 <[Demo]> fuck you cuntbag 18:08 <[Demo]> i wanted a fucking safe prayer 18:08 <[Demo]> not a shitstain 18:08 Rothe-n-beans! 18:08 easy [Demo] 18:09 [hdf-us] [fh] sorry (Demo) (Hea Hum Fem Neu) received Werebane from Hermes, on T:18534 18:09 <[Demo]> what the fuck 18:18 <@riker> demo are you o 18:18 <@riker> *ok 18:18 <[Demo]> i am now 18:18 <[Demo]> couldnt get a prayer in 18:18 <[Demo]> cause god is very dumb 18:18 <[Demo]> needs symmetry 18:19 <@riker> so when I play, the god is as dumb as me? 18:19 <@riker> ok 18:19 <@riker> that doens't sound fair 18:21 <[Demo]> im not bad im differently skilled 18:23 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:24 <[Demo]> hmm unhittable golden naga being a bitch 18:24 <@riker> symmetry 18:26 <[Demo]> why the fuck does everything wanna kill the shit out of me in this game 18:28 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) had Sting bestowed upon her by Mars, on T:32208 18:28 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed Medusa, on T:42989 18:31 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) was given the Tie-Dye Shirt of Shambhala, on T:8876 18:32 <[Demo]> !asc Daisuke 18:32 [Demo]: No games for Daisuke. 18:36 <[Demo]> oh this is an mtf boens hell 18:37 <[Demo]> wheres his shit though? 18:37 <@riker> nymph 18:37 <@riker> calling it now 18:47 he probably used it all 18:47 -!- Tariru has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:48 [Demo]: unhittable golden naga, sounds like it was maintaining protection 18:53 [hdf-us] [fh] sorry (Demo) (Hea Hum Fem Neu), 69429 points, T:22836, killed by a winged gargoyle 18:54 <[Demo]> wow that did a whole lot more damage in a single turn than i was expecting 19:01 <[Demo]> feels like tohit in general is lower in fh 19:01 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 19:04 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:11517 19:05 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased bag of holding", on T:11519 19:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 silver dragon scale mail", on T:11520 19:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 blue dragon scale shield", on T:11521 19:07 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:22090 19:08 You see here a statue of a wizard named hothraxxa. 19:08 i seem to be in fine health for a statue 19:11 [hdf-us] [nd] redshirt (Rog Orc Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed fixed +2 gauntlets of power", on T:41279 19:13 [hdf-us] [nd] redshirt (Rog Orc Mal Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:41292 19:13 [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Arc Hum Mal Law), 174 points, T:1276, killed by a small mimic 19:14 [hdf-us] [nd] redshirt (Rog Orc Mal Cha) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:41294 19:15 -!- deadnoob_ has joined #hardfought 19:16 -!- MysteryMyra has joined #hardfought 19:18 [hdf-us] [fh] nerfpurplegargoyle (Demo) (Kni Dwa Fem Law) heard a rumor from The Oracle, on T:2327 19:19 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:22 [hdf-us] [fh] nerfpurplegargoyle (Demo) (Kni Dwa Fem Law) killed the ghost of Uteris, the former Thaumaturge, on T:2646 19:23 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) was given their Quest, on T:12652 19:24 aosdict: did you nerf bags? 19:24 not a single bag of any kind all the way down to the castle 19:24 i think bags must be nerfed 19:25 I think you are suffering of an ailment called variant paranoia 19:25 no no, aosdict must have nerfed bags 19:26 perseus' sack was my last hope 19:26 all the bugger had was a polished shield 19:29 put your gear inside the curve of the shield and carry it that way 19:29 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:34405 19:29 hothraxxa: maybe talk to K2. He thinks I *buffed* bags. 19:30 hah 19:30 lies! 19:30 my orc wizard had 4 or 5 19:31 holdybags 19:31 not sure how many sacks i saw 19:31 no oilskin though 19:31 i'd be happy with a plain sack 19:34 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the Master of Thieves, on T:13209 19:51 Hmm. I assumed there was a way to guaranteed distinguish player-made tins from random ones. 19:51 If not for the fact that random ones can generate as HOMEMADE, and that this status could be changeable by cursing it, it would still work. 20:04 in 3.4.3 you could distinguish player tins 20:05 how so? perhaps it still exists in 3.6 and I don't know about it 20:05 didn't see anything in the tin-making code though 20:05 why would they remove that 20:06 if they did, it was because of some or other refactor and probably not intende 20:06 a homemade tin has -1 spe 20:06 This is still true. 20:06 as in 20:06 player-made 20:06 But random tins can also be homemade. 20:06 yes, but random tins have spe 0 20:06 unless they changed that 20:06 for some reason 20:07 [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed +3 silver dragon scale mail", on T:3840 20:07 1 is spinach 20:07 -1 is homemade or rotten 20:07 0 is various things, including homemade also 20:07 this is in 3.4.3 20:08 Hm, hack.h actually has homemade tins as +1 and spinach as -1 20:08 then random as -2 and healthy as -3 and rotten as 0 20:08 that is new 20:08 then 20:08 I mean, they're all constants so the exact values shouldn't matter 20:09 I thought that HOMEMADE_TIN referred to any tin that would be "homemade" when opened, but perhaps not 20:14 -!- _catalyst_ has joined #hardfought 20:29 -!- deadnoob_ has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:34 aosdict are you still taking submissions for homemade tins? 20:35 K2: Haven't committed it yet! Fire away! 20:35 hah ok! 20:35 Jalapeno Cheddar Cheese Spread (MRE) 20:35 Not homemade, randomly generated. Homemade are label-less. 20:35 army ppl playing your variant will get a chuckle from that 20:36 that stuff is like gold to privates 20:36 aosdict: thought of another one. "Ingredients: caffeine, salt, capsaicin, natural and artificial flavors." 20:36 K2: any serial numbers on that? 20:36 oh of course 20:36 there's an NSN number for *everything* in the military 20:37 And an abbreviation as well, I imagine. 20:37 SPE3S1-17-D-Z121 20:38 no wait 20:38 that might make it too long 20:38 thats not it exactly 20:38 yeah NSN would be just as long if not longer 20:39 omg this is even better... 20:39 Humanitarian Daily Ration (or HDR), NSN 8970-01-375-0516 20:39 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) read the necronomicon for the first time, on T:18760 20:40 and you could also do this: Meal, Ready-to-Eat 20:40 MRE :) 20:41 eat those for three days straight. dare you 20:41 -!- mpt| has quit [] 20:41 I'm tempted to replace both C- and K- rations with MREs. 20:41 hah 20:41 YANI: you can read C- and K-rations which will give MRE names. 20:41 ^^^ 20:42 instead of a crummy tin label no one will ever read 20:42 <@riker> wait you can read tins 20:42 (I plan to add a bit of motivation for reading tin labels - sometimes it'll tell the truth) 20:42 @riker Not yet. 20:42 <@riker> oh ok 20:42 aosdict: go here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meal,_Ready-to-Eat#Change_in_menus_over_time and look at the current 2016-2017 menu 20:42 Historically, C-rations were mostly canned goods, intended to be prepared in a field kitchen without access to fresh produce; K-rations were field rations for an individual soldier. 20:43 Both contained meat. 20:43 MREs often do as well, but not always. 20:43 there are vegetarian versions on the menu 20:43 Sure. 20:43 I said "often" and "not always" 20:43 Yeah, looking at this menu, vegetarians are definitely the minority 20:44 well yeah 20:44 how many vegetarian infantry soldier do you know? 20:44 I don't think that was true with C- and K-. I don't think the military had developed an attitude of molly-coddling vegetarians yet at that tme. 20:44 *time 20:44 a vegetarian could eat, uh... four of those things on the menu. 20:44 answer is 'zero' 20:45 * jonadab is willing to eat vegetarian and vegan food. Sometimes. 20:45 they don't sound half bad, though I have eaten MREs once or twice and know that the name isn't everything 20:45 they are actually half way decent now 20:46 when i first joined they were ok 20:46 some of them 20:46 I've not eaten MREs, but I assume they're not significantly better than GFS fare that cafeterias serve. 20:46 menu and quality have improved since then 20:46 Maybe slightly worse. 20:46 probably a lot like meals on backpacking trips: they taste much better than usual after a long day of exertion outside 20:46 <@Tone> A friend of mine was in the national guard and used to eat those things all the time at home 20:46 aosdict: Heh, there's that, yeah. 20:46 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 20:47 @Tone : Anecdotally, my sister knows a person who refuses to ever eat anything except chicken mcnuggets. 20:47 (This person is an autistic child...) 20:47 <@riker> how the heck aren't they dead of a heart attack of something 20:47 jonadab: By vegetarian and vegan food, do you mean fake meat products or just generally any food that's vegetarian? 20:47 <@riker> oh, that makes more sense 20:47 <@Tone> heh 20:48 aosdict: Eww, not fake meat products, no. 20:48 I do have quality standards. 20:48 Some fake meat products are stomach-turning (because to me they're too much like the real thing), some are pretty good 20:48 I had a vegan burrito at a place in Toronto that was excellent. Had, some kind of sweet potato curry in it. Very good. 20:48 I think it contained beans as well. 20:49 <@Tone> That sounds delicious 20:49 I also had a bacon and onion poutine at the same place. Which was also excellent. 20:49 My sister had a cheeseburger. And complained that she was tired of eating cheeseburgers. 20:50 Because I kept picking out restaurants that had them on the menu. 20:50 So of course that's what she ordered. Because she's Sarah. 20:51 <@riker> anybody else here live on the west cost with in-n-out? 20:52 <@Tone> I've been in In-N-Out territory a few times but have never eaten at one 20:53 <@riker> they've got great food, you should really try it 20:53 Hmm, does 1/5 sound fair for the chance of a tin label being honest? Or should it be higher? 20:53 <@Tone> Yeah I'll seek them out at some point 20:54 aosdict: For those two cases where it "might" be honest, I think I'd make it honest about 80% of the time, honestly. 20:54 Two cases? 20:54 <@Tone> I'm surprised I hardly saw any when I drove down the west coast a few months ago 20:54 <@riker> oh dang 20:54 aosdict: Didn't the list have two "might be honest" ones? 20:54 <@riker> they're all over here in CA, there's like 5 in 7 cities 20:55 jonadab: Yes, but I'm computing the chance of it being honest up-front. 20:55 /* potential contents, sometimes true */ and /* ditto */ 20:55 Ah. 20:55 That's different then. 20:55 <@Tone> San Francisco was the only real city I stayed at in California 20:55 <@Tone> Mostly drove through the north half of the state 20:55 The only state west of the Mississippi that I've set foot in is Arizona. 20:56 <@Tone> Saw a few in some cities when I was exploring but there was usually better food around 20:56 If it decides to be dishonest, it'll pick a label randomly; if not, it'll pick one of the two maybe-honest ones. 20:56 Ah, ok. 20:56 In that case, yeah, 1/5 is probably fine. 20:56 <@riker> > better food 20:56 <@riker> than in-n-out? not possible. 20:56 @riker I've heard really good things about Mos Burger. 20:56 <@Tone> Maybe I should have said more "local" food 20:56 <@riker> never heard of it, sorry 20:57 Huh, I thought you lived on west coast US @Tone. Not sure where I got that idea. 20:57 maybe I'm thinking of mtf 20:57 <@Tone> If I'm in a city for a few days I like to try places that are exclusive to that area 20:57 the chicken pesto pasta MRE is actually better than some restaurant served dishes of the same 20:57 <@Tone> mtf is in Texas I think 20:57 @riker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mos_Burger' 20:57 Err, drop the ' 20:57 <@Tone> I'm in Florida 20:57 K2: yes, sounds delicious, except for the chicken 20:57 i will eat your chicken 20:57 <@riker> huh, japan only? 20:57 <@riker> well japan and AUS 20:58 Yeah. 20:58 that sounded wrong 20:58 Never been there. 20:58 <@Tone> That rice patty looks neat 20:59 <@Tone> oh that's not the standard burger 20:59 Supposedly, Mos Burger uses really high-quality fresh vegetables and such for condiments. 20:59 <@Tone> oh my god these sushi burgers 21:00 <@Tone> pasta burgers lol 21:00 <@Tone> these guys are mad 21:00 <@Tone> fettucini for a bun 21:00 That's a bit weird. 21:00 But bear in mind, it's Japanese. 21:00 A certain amount of weirdness is basically required. 21:01 <@riker> burgers w/ lettuce for a bun are pretty good 21:01 I mean, have you seen Pizza Hut Japan's menu? 21:01 <@Tone> No but I'm looking it up 21:01 It's available online as a PDF. In English or Japanese. 21:01 You will probably notice some differences from the American menu. 21:02 <@Tone> "Prawn, Squid, Tuna with mayonnaise, Broccoli, Onions, Tomato Sauce" 21:03 <@Tone> Wow they really like mayonnaise on their pizza 21:03 Yeah. 21:03 <@riker> yeah it's pretty good 21:03 <@riker> would recommend 21:03 The _leading_ pizza chain in Japan is Pizza La. Almost _everything_ on their menu has mayo. 21:03 <@Tone> "Teriyaki chicken, corn, shredded seaweed, mayonnaise" 21:03 hah 21:03 its like in hawaii... instead of fries at mcdonalds you can get rice 21:04 and fried egg on your burger 21:04 (loco moco) 21:04 <@riker> that seems like a bad trade to me 21:04 and of course Spam™ 21:04 Fried egg on a burger is a bit out of the ordinary line, but it's not _bizarre_ like mayonnaise and tuna and corn on pizza. 21:05 Spam is another topic entirely. 21:05 <@Tone> Two good friends of mine live in Japan, I'll have to ask them how the pizza is 21:05 Eggplant is also a popular pizza topping in Japan. 21:06 <@Tone> I love eggplant on pizza 21:06 I've never tried it. I've never seen a pizza place that _offered it_. 21:06 Heck, very few grocery stores around here even sell eggplant. 21:06 Meijer probably does, from time to time. 21:07 <@Tone> Friend of mine owns a pizza shop and does eggplant on it 21:07 Not all the time, obviously. 21:07 <@Tone> Actually his eggplant parm sub might be the best I've had 21:07 jonadab: what are your thoughts on macaroni and cheese pizza 21:08 aosdict: My sister likes that. Personally I am fairly ambivalent about it. If it's _good_ mac and cheese, it'd be ok I guess. 21:08 Though that's pretty carby. 21:08 Then again, I've been known to make a ham and leftover-mac-and-cheese sandwich. 21:08 Only with good, real, homemade mac and cheese, obviously. 21:09 I can make homemade mac and cheese about 50% of the time. The rest of the time I mess up the cheese sauce. 21:10 <@Tone> I'm so lazy when it comes to cooking 21:10 * aosdict rolls rn2() to determine if the mac and cheese result is a success 21:11 rn2(2) 21:11 <@Tone> I never like spending the time to make a proper mac and cheese with bechamel and all that 21:13 K2: "Humanitarian Daily Ration" is excellent 21:13 it sounds like something an alien species is providing to a captive population of humans 21:14 heh 21:14 Set it beside a Vegetarian Daily Ration for some sinister undertones. 21:15 I am also taking suggestions for any T-shirts, rumors, random engravings, or other flavorful strings. 21:15 "Soylent Green is people!" 21:15 Oh, how did I miss Soylent Green? Got to add that. 21:15 Fourk has a handful of T-shirts not in vanilla. 21:17 -!- _catalyst_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:25 aosdict 21:25 the getobj issue with doing things like dipping potions is back 21:25 -!- MysteryMyra has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:38 to be clear, loco moco is not exactly a burger 21:38 it's a hamburger patty on sticky rice topped with a fried egg and gravy 21:38 and it's delicious 21:39 its a burger with all of those things you just mentioned 21:39 there's no bun 21:39 depends where you go 21:39 or condiments 21:40 well maybe, but that's how you make a real loco moco according to the inventor 21:40 * hothraxxa researched this 21:42 now i'm hungry for a spam and pineapple pizza 21:42 mmmm 21:42 spam 21:43 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_musubi 22:04 -!- MysteryMyra has joined #hardfought 22:21 [hdf-us] [nd] Qwesti (Tou Hum Mal Neu) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:1297 22:28 -!- hpardis has joined #hardfought 22:42 -!- _catalyst_ has joined #hardfought 22:43 -!- _catalyst_ has quit [Client Quit] 22:48 -!- _catalyst_ has joined #hardfought 23:02 [hdf-us] [nd] Qwesti (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 1780 points, T:2657, killed by a large kobold, while sleeping 23:05 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:08 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Mon Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed fixed the eye of the aethiopica", on T:19340 23:10 [hdf-us] [slex] ahrimen (Cou Cen Fem Law), 650 points, T:1352, killed by a monster (dog), while fainted from lack of food 23:22 [hdf-us] [xnh] krm26 (Kni Hum Fem Law), 2278 points, T:3231, killed by a sewer rat, while frozen by a monster's gaze 23:25 [hdf-us] [xnh] krm26 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 170 points, T:453, killed by a dwarf 23:26 -!- hf_guest_33419 has joined #hardfought 23:31 -!- hf_guest_6345 has joined #hardfought 23:34 aosdict: something to consider about engravings being represented by a " is you can immediately find which corner of the castle the wand is in by magic mapping. 23:34 bouquet: crap! I fixed that in sokoban and forgot about the castle! 23:35 (the fix is to put dud engravings on the other locations) 23:35 I still checked all four corners 23:35 Actually, wait, I think someone made a case for the castle being OK with that. I think it was like, you can already do this with object detection. 23:36 And the reason it's problematic in Sokoban is because the mapping is free. 23:36 [hdf-us] [fh] ahrimen (Sam Hum Mal Law), 29007 points, T:2217, killed by a bolt of fire 23:36 bouquet: ok on reflection, that is Working As Intended. 23:37 ok, whevs! 23:37 -!- hf_guest_6345 has quit [Quit: *poof*] 23:38 !tell ais523 Know of any exploits that revolve around leaking or manipulating object ids? 23:38 Will do, aosdict! 23:38 aosdict did you see my comment about getobj breaking? 23:38 Yes, how can I reproduce that 23:39 find a fountain. dip something in it repeatedly using ctrl+a 23:39 it was fixed, but since last update its broken again 23:39 ok, I personally have no idea why that breaks 23:39 summoning FIQ! 23:40 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) made her first wish - "3 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:45117 23:40 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) made her first artifact wish - "blessed Master Key of Thievery", on T:45118 23:44 [hdf-us] [xnh] krm26 (Kni Hum Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at her by some watery tart, on T:2359 23:44 -!- hf_guest_33419 has quit [Quit: *poof*] 23:47 -!- remirol has joined #hardfought 23:49 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:49 -!- K2 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:49 -!- K2 has joined #hardfought 23:49 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o K2] by ChanServ 23:51 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of genocide", on T:45448 23:51 [hdf-us] [xnh] bouquet (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) genocided class h, on T:45449 23:52 -!- hf_guest_33419 has joined #hardfought 23:54 -!- hf_guest_33419 has quit [Client Quit] 23:57 -!- _catalyst_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:59 -!- _catalyst_ has joined #hardfought