00:04 [hdf-us] [nd] TheDiaz (Val Hum Fem Neu), 1275 points, T:3690, killed by an ape 00:04 And it shows what happened to me lol 00:04 -!- emar has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:17 [hdf-us] [nd] TheDiaz (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 407 points, T:1027, killed by a dagger 00:30 -!- TheDiaz has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:33 K2: Tangles: apparently !lastasc is a little bugged? Tarmunora did "!lastasc Kame" and the us server returned properly (nothing) but the eu server gave an elenmirie ascension. 00:53 [hdf-us] [nh4] kek (Ran Gno Mal Neu), 1955 points, T:38, quit 00:58 -!- Elronnd is now known as we 00:58 [hdf-us] [fh] Blue (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 37115 points, T:7949, killed by a giant spider 00:58 -!- we is now known as Elronnd 01:06 [hdf-us] [fh] Blue (Val Dwa Fem Law), 10005 points, T:195, quit 01:09 [hdf-us] [fh] Blue (Val Dwa Fem Law), 18610 points, T:429, quit 01:37 [hdf-us] [fh] WHITE (Blue) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 17274 points, T:393, killed by a magic missile 01:37 hi 01:37 Hello FIQ, Welcome to #hardfought 01:37 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:38 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:39 [hdf-us] [fh] White (Blue) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 4680 points, T:23, escaped 01:50 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:50 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 02:00 [hdf-us] [fh] Valk (Blue) (Val Dwa Fem Law), 33129 points, T:2293, killed by a hill orc 02:38 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:47 !tell K2 there's a SLEX 2.1.8 now, but it's not ready for the server, as a lot of stuff is only half-working, so please don't put it on hdf yet ;) If any hotfixes need to be done, I'll use the 2.1.7 compatibility branch that I just created. 02:47 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:50 [hdf-us] [fh] Shira (Blue) (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 19992 points, T:1014, killed by a dwarf 02:50 [hdf-us] [fh] Obi (Blue) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 4521 points, T:7, quit 02:52 !tell FIQ Something seems to be wrong with FIQhack's watchmode, I was just trying to watch "Obi (Blue)" and repeatedly got this message: Configuring terminal, please wait.┬á┬á (those weird glyphs were displayed) and then it went back to the watch menu. After some attempts I got to watch the game but then I hit q and was somehow able to quit their game, as if I were playing... 02:52 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:53 [hdf-us] [fh] Freezer (Blue) (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1384 points, T:24, quit 03:06 [hdf-us] [un] Blue (Val Dwa Fem Law), 3833 points, T:2803, killed by a rope golem 03:08 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 03:08 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 03:15 LarienTelrunya: if it kicks you out as you enter, that means that their game is pending completion 03:15 FIQ: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-03-27 02:52 EDT: Something seems to be wrong with FIQhack's watchmode, I was just trying to watch "Obi (Blue)" and repeatedly got this message: Configuring terminal, please wait.┬á┬á (those weird glyphs were displayed) and then it went back to the watch menu. After some attempts I got to watch the game but then I hit q and was somehow able to quit their game, as if I were playing... 03:15 as in, DYWYPI 03:15 ah 03:15 the q thing is just coincidence I think, Blue escaped earlier 03:15 so it was actually them using quit 03:15 yes 03:16 by the way, I found out why slex-curses segfaults when hitting spacebar on the "how do you want to start playing" prompt, but I don't know how to fix that 03:16 probably a bug 03:16 I never finished up that code fully before giving you a patch 03:17 int result = selected[0].item.a_int; 03:17 that's the line that gdb gives as the place where it crashes 03:17 ah 03:17 I need to learn how NH3's menu system works 03:17 it's different from NH4 03:18 LarienTelrunya: actually, there's another case where the game kicks you out as you enter watchmode 03:18 I'd guess it is the line that makes the game prompt you for a selection, and hitting space returns something weird 03:18 if there is a segfault 03:19 hitting space probably never allocates selected[0] 03:19 yeah, and then "result" tries to become something uninitialized and crashes 03:19 probably I need to look at the return value from the menu call 03:22 LarienTelrunya: I am about to introduce another change you will inevitably complain about in FIQHack 03:22 yaaaaaay :) 03:22 what is the change? 03:22 http://home.fiq.se/attr_table.txt 03:22 slex's pager.c can always need a few more messages, and maybe I'll also add scroll labels 03:22 consistent HP gains/losses 03:23 from level up 03:23 what, you mean they're no longer randomized? 03:23 and applying con/wis changes to HP/Pw retroactively 03:24 well, if you're going to pull a Nethack Fourk there and make it so that increasing max HP becomes difficult or even impossible then yes, I will complain :P 03:24 that isn't part of this change 03:24 speaking of which, I absolutely have to add a message to slex about fourk's ******** extra healing thing 03:24 I might nerf max HP gains at some point, but that's unrelated 03:24 (and something I'm not sure is a good idea) 03:25 4k's extra healing mechanics is rather stupid 03:25 I don't mind the nerf per se 03:25 but the weay i tworks is silly 03:25 it means optimal strategy is to drink blessed extra healing ASAP 03:25 and it's better to drain yourself before doing it, if you can 03:25 because it caps out at 250, getting harder over time 03:25 that... sounds even more retarded than I thought it was 03:25 a flat 250 number 03:25 it doesn't care about your level 03:26 or other things 03:26 at all 03:26 so Wizards gain much more than dwarven Valkyries 03:26 meaning getting yourself a high max HP early with EH longterm give you more HP 03:26 than if you use extra healing later on 03:27 ... 03:27 *way it works 03:27 * LarienTelrunya shakes her head 03:28 I think I told jonadab that I found this mechanic silly at some point 03:28 Not sure if I did, if I didn't, I do so now 03:28 :P 03:28 well I'd tell him too, but since he takes anything I say about fourk with a huge shaker full of salt... 03:29 That makes sense, since you author a variant whose view on balance he strongly disagrees with 03:29 He also doesn't really take suggestions I make that happens to be based off dNetHack seriously 03:29 for similar reason 03:31 @luxidream I know you like doing HP alchemy, you might find the info above on 4k max HP mechanics useful 03:31 if playing 4k 03:32 LarienTelrunya: did you know that FIQHack 4.3.0 (not development versions) had a rather major nerf to nurse dancing by accident? 03:32 nope, what did you do? 03:32 well 03:32 any monster in FIQHack at a sufficient level, even non-casters, has a chance to generate with spells 03:32 hahaha 03:32 this includes nurses 03:32 "The nurse casts drain life!" I guess? 03:32 yeah 03:33 in 4.3.1, they've one of few monsters that is part of the list mostly reserved for uniques 03:33 with a special spell list 03:33 (healing and extra healing IIRC) 03:34 but if you get a nurse that doesn't have offensive spells, you can still dance normally? or do they eventually learn drain life over time? 03:34 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/FIQHack/Monster_spellcasting#Nurses 03:34 no you can dance normally then 03:34 EPI: nurses have a low random chance of learning a random spell every turn. So if you nurse dance a lot, eventually she will learn magic missile or something. 03:35 as with all monsters (and players) 03:35 alternate EPI: all nurses have AT_MAGC AD_MAGM, so in order to nurse dance, you first need to survive their barrage of spells until they run out of Pw. 03:35 they can learn spells by reading books 03:35 but non-casters only do this if they're at least XL14 03:36 well do nurses count as casters? they do know healing spells after all... 03:36 assuming they don't fail the int check 03:36 and the healer role is a spellcaster :D 03:36 yeah but not nurses 03:37 healers aren't flagged as casters 03:37 YANI: the game needs non-magical tools that can be used to heal wounds. Why is all healing in the game magical in some way? We want bandages and stuff :D 03:37 so they don't get the extended spell list like casters get 03:38 monk, priest and wizard 03:38 are the roles marked as casters 03:38 what, monk is a caster and healer is not? wtf 03:38 monk can cast spells better than healers can... 03:38 healers can really only cast healing spells well 03:39 arguably they should probably be marked as a caster thoguh 03:39 hmm, weird 03:39 *though 03:39 so they get an extended spell list 03:39 and can properly cast their healing spells 03:39 wait am I seeing that correctly? vanilla healers can learn no other spell schools besides healing??? 03:39 correct 03:39 that shows how rarely I play healers in vanilla 03:40 they do however have the best casting capabilities in the game besides Wizards 03:40 "natural" casting abilities, I mean 03:40 in slex, healers can advance 7 spell schools to expert, no wonder slex healers seem super-powerful by comparison (I ascended one and it was a lategame powerhouse) 03:40 so they can usually easily cast the lower level spells of other schools 03:41 when other roles struggle 03:43 the main reason why I can't play casters in vanillaoid variants is the "don't wear metal armor" restriction 03:43 it seems that even a single piece of armor makes almost all spells impossible to cast, no matter how good my stats or skills are 03:44 it's a little better in dnethack but most of the time my failure rates are still too bad :P 03:47 if barbariain dwarf was possible in FIQHack 03:47 you'd get 15 HP per level at 25 con 03:47 *barbarian 03:48 * LarienTelrunya mutters something about arbitrary role/race/gender/align restrictions :D 03:50 (and I guess you'll mutter something back about lawful anachrononono-nonononos :P) 03:53 <@luxidream> FIQ I usually nurse dance 03:53 <@luxidream> But I assume that’s also nerfed 03:53 * LarienTelrunya used to work in a clinic; wanna dance with me, Luxidream? ♥ 03:53 @luxidream Probably, I don't know the details there 03:54 LarienTelrunya: no, that's demo 03:54 but try to ascend one 03:54 I dare you 03:54 you are allowed to use wizard mode 03:54 if you save the future 03:55 !tell Chris_ANG You should be able to pray as an Anachronaut who saved the future 03:55 Will do, FIQ! 03:57 FIQ: ascending a lawful anachrononono works in wizard mode :P "You offer the Amulet of Yendor to Ptah... An invisible choir sings blablabla..." 03:58 look at the description 03:58 of the ascension 03:58 well I have no idea what the "save the future" thing is about, for me ascended is ascended :D 03:58 ascending without saving the future counts as an escape 03:58 not an ascension 03:58 WTF 03:59 why did you think I explicitly said "you must save the future" 03:59 ok since you seem ignorant about the problem 03:59 dnethack is teh uber wierdo :P 03:59 let me spell it out for you 03:59 to properly ascend ana 03:59 you need to destroy the lawful altar 03:59 on astral 03:59 do you now see why ana can't be lawful 03:59 ... great 04:00 well, what if you use a helm of opposite alignment to become chaotic? would that work? 04:00 <@luxidream> why does destroying the law altar save the future 04:00 <@luxidream> What is the Ana plot 04:00 but then you don't ascend lawful 04:00 which was my point 04:00 yeah but the game would still be properly winnable when starting a lawful ana :P 04:00 but yeah that would work 04:00 but be really dumb 04:01 @luxidream in Ana's world, an illithid god (think mind flayer) destroyed all other gods 04:01 well, if dnethack makes it so that the lawful ana has to become chaotic in order to be allowed to win then that's the way it works :P 04:01 this is also why they can't pray 04:01 their plot is to go back to the past 04:01 (hence anachronaut) 04:01 use their quest artifact 04:01 <@luxidream> Easy, genocide mind flayers 04:02 and destroy the lawful altar on astral 04:02 genocide doesn't work in the quest or Planes 04:02 in dnh 04:03 <@luxidream> Extinct mind flayers. If there are no illithids how are they going to ruin the future 😛 04:03 why would one want to live in a future where there's only mind flayers? are we doomed? like, how many years in the future is it supposed to be? 04:04 <@luxidream> mind flayers are also chaotic in nethack 04:04 also why can't the ana eat normally, I really don't want to live in a future where you have to live on synthetic protein pills or something 04:05 @luxidream lawful in D&D 04:05 chris likes to take stuff from D&D 04:06 LarienTelrunya: please bring up your concerns with Chris_ANG 04:07 LarienTelrunya: did you also mess with binder alignment 04:07 nope, binder is still gnostic 04:08 ah 04:11 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 04:11 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:15 Morning world. 04:16 LarienTelrunya, in D&D, mind flayers/illithid come from a future where they already took over the world :/ 04:16 ah, I see (never played D&D) 04:18 there should totally be a limb damage system in nethack and a way to specifically target the enemy's tentacles and cut them off :P 04:18 LarienTelrunya, well I'm fairly sure it started with an Illithid scienist ascending into demigodhood after facing a close-to-impossible challenge to recover some amulet ;) 04:18 hahaha :D 04:18 wait, I ascended an illithid scientist in slex! is that what you're referring to? it was my first slexcension, too! 04:19 Yeah, that was it. 04:19 :D 04:19 And doomed the human race to servatiude! 04:19 ...what have I done 04:19 LarienTelrunya, as for limb damage, Dwarf Fortress and ASCII gore. I had a legendary hammerdwarf that managed to completely break a goblin into all its component parts with one swing. 04:20 (course, DF being DF, you can find all 20-28 teeth and even target attacks against a specific molar ...) 04:21 heh 04:22 FIQ: did you see https://github.com/SLASHEM-Extended/SLASHEM-Extended/commit/dfdaf8eec8b7ef29d908ad93520b9420e7adf724 yet? :D (there's also 32 other commits I pushed today, some of which with new messages, scroll labels etc.) 04:55 -!- Tangles has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:56 -!- Tangles has joined #hardfought 04:56 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles] by ChanServ 04:58 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 04:58 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 05:16 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 05:23 -!- theRaisse has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:24 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 05:47 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 05:47 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 06:02 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:05 YASI: since the encyclopedia mentions that cockatrices can be defeated by weasels, logically weasels should exist in the game and their corpses should unstone you when eaten. But unlike lizards, they will rot away. And in the process, let's make it so that lizard corpses don't cure petrification anymore. :P 06:05 <[Demo]> no 06:05 s/YASI/EPI 06:06 <[Demo]> lizards are just scaly weasels 06:06 EPI: the encyclopedia mentions that "Its breath is so venomous that it causes all vegetation to wither." So, logically, the cockatrice should be able to breathe petrification. 06:10 sure, go ahead 06:17 <[Demo]> its not like changes to slex would actually affect play that much 06:17 <[Demo]> err players 06:18 <[Demo]> ud still be #1 06:18 <[Demo]> and with all the filler monsters the odds ud see a real cockatrice to breath at you and fuck you up seem kinda low 06:20 that's kind of the way slex monsters are balanced, actually: make the dangerous ones rare enough that you'll not run into them all the time 06:26 over the years, I came to dislike content that people rarely see 06:26 this means bugs are lurking longer 06:26 umm 06:26 so apparently 06:26 you gain HP on level up when polymorphed 06:26 and also, content players don't encounter is like content that isn't there 06:27 fair enough 06:27 you do NOT lose HP on level down when polymorphed 06:27 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 06:27 this means that for those willing to forego LS, they can polyself into an elvenking and spam drain life + level up to get an obscenely high HP easily 06:28 LarienTelrunya: Gorgons exist in ADOM 06:28 They breathe petrification 06:28 I was about to say "isn't that the level drain issue" 06:29 FIQ: wait, is that a vanilla 3.4.3 bug?! 06:29 how come no one detected that yet? 06:29 I figured I introduced sume stupid bug in FIQHack 06:29 but it's also in 4k 06:29 I will double check 3.4.3 too 06:29 * LarienTelrunya double checks whether the bug exists in slex 06:29 actually I don't have a 3.4.3 install here 06:30 but I do have a wizmode-enabled grunthack 06:30 grunthack is basically vanilla for this purpose 06:30 if it's there, it's certainly in 3.4.3 06:30 if it isn't, well, it might still be in 3.4.3 06:30 LarienTelrunya: I'm quite sure there's an entry on the buglist for it 06:30 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Polyself_bug 06:31 nope, in slex there's no such bug; polymorphed my XL7 character (55 base HP) into some beetle, zapped draining at myself a couple of times, then killed myself with a wand of fire, 21 max HP after unpolymorphing 06:31 bhaak: yeah but that's a different bug, it involves "feeling like a new woman" and having your HP doubled 06:31 yeah 06:31 which slex also fixes, incidentally :P 06:31 it's i grunthack 06:31 *in 06:32 bhaak: that's a different bug, yeah 06:32 this bug is a bit different 06:32 yeah, this is with self-poly 06:32 it's the fact that if you lose levels while polymorphed 06:32 you don't lose max HP 06:33 <[Demo]> if it works in vanilla, shit dude 06:33 <[Demo]> quality find 06:33 it works in 3.4.3, I have my doubts about 3.6.0 (because it refactored HP gain/loss in general) 06:33 unlike, say, vorpalbug 06:33 <[Demo]> heh 06:34 oh, 3.4.3's losexp() function is indeed quite weird 06:34 let me test 3.6.0 06:34 er 06:34 3.6.1 dev 06:34 really 3.6.1 with my getobj patch, but I don't think it has an imapct here :-) 06:35 just tested 3.6.1 06:35 <[Demo]> does it work? 06:35 it doesn't reproduce there 06:35 <[Demo]> damn 06:36 <[Demo]> Wonder if my iron hook bug still works there 06:36 oddly it gives me a different max HP on a 1->30->1 cycle though 06:36 I don't think that happens when not polyselfed 06:36 let me check 06:36 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/exper.c - line 142-147 make it seem like it should be working... 06:36 well, unless newhp() somehow returns zero 06:36 yeah 06:36 it doesn't 06:37 so for some reason, the behaviour is different 06:37 bhaak: possible that drain for gain still works in 3.6.1 when polymorphed... but that's not nearly as a bad of a bug 06:37 LarienTelrunya: 3.4.3 simply doesn't update polymorphed HP 06:37 when losing levels 06:38 uhp(max) vs mh(max) 06:39 oh you mean polymorphed max HP, I thought you referred to the max HP in natural form not reducing while you're polymorphed 06:39 no 06:39 that would be even worse 06:39 so to exploit this, you'd need to have unchanging? 06:39 that's why I gave the caveat 06:39 "if you're willing to forego LS" 06:39 (the only kind of amulet that has no alternative) 06:40 <[Demo]> some variants offer alternatives? 06:40 and I suggested elvenking because it's actually a normal form 06:40 no downsides at all besides lack of LS and attibute exercise 06:40 well then, slex does indeed have the bug too, but it'll be squashed very soon :P 06:41 <[Demo]> sounds like a feature to me 06:41 [Demo]: dNetHack has Jack 06:41 Closest thing to an alternative you have 06:41 slex has 1-ups, which are basically intrinsic slotless amulets of life saving (and yes, you can have several :D) 06:41 <[Demo]> Ok yeah that wouldn't realistically work sadly 06:42 <[Demo]> someone should do an ascension with this bug 06:44 <[Demo]> Oh wait I meant unchanging alternatives not life saving 06:44 NH4 has polyinit 06:44 dNetHack probably has a spirit for it 06:45 (but that is risky @dNH) 06:45 <[Demo]> I'm thinking alignment thing? 06:45 <[Demo]> don't know 06:45 xnethack has sentinence transfer 06:45 <[Demo]> what 06:45 <[Demo]> what the fuck is that 06:45 <[Demo]> that sounds cool 06:45 but xnethack doesn't matter because it doesn't have the bug 06:45 it's not nearly as cool as I made it sound like 06:45 sorry 06:46 <[Demo]> is that like worm that walks in dnh? 06:46 but it's what I see it as 06:46 <[Demo]> oh 06:46 no but like 06:46 when you raise from the dead as a non-ghost 06:46 [Demo]: unchanging alternatives? slex offers a cloak of unchanging ;) 06:46 you may potentially get to keep playing 06:46 with intrinsic unchanging 06:46 *rise from the dead 06:46 <[Demo]> Oh god 06:46 yes, this includes green slime 06:46 have fun! 06:47 for other creatures, you can get help from your god to get it solved 06:47 actually, even your god might be able to help 06:47 for green slime too 06:48 <[Demo]> Oh neat 06:48 unless aosdict accounted for it 06:48 FIQ: slex actually has the "play on as a permanent green slime" too, but only if you have polymorph control at the time of death, otherwise it's game over ;) 06:48 green slimes doesn't have hands 06:48 so praying would be a major trouble 06:48 forcing a depoly 06:48 and undead can pray to lawful gods 06:48 they'll get smitten 06:48 but also depoly 06:52 <[Demo]> Ok who wants to do a dnh several thousand hp orc of the age of stars? 07:02 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:19742 07:09 -!- emar has joined #hardfought 07:16 \o/ 07:16 K2: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-03-27 02:47 EDT: there's a SLEX 2.1.8 now, but it's not ready for the server, as a lot of stuff is only half-working, so please don't put it on hdf yet ;) If any hotfixes need to be done, I'll use the 2.1.7 compatibility branch that I just created. 07:16 ok 07:27 -!- theRaisse has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:27 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 07:49 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Ran Elf Fem Cha) polymorphed her first item, on T:21287 08:03 [hdf-us] [xnh] krm26 (Kni Hum Mal Law), 18812 points, T:10801, killed by a warhorse 08:04 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 08:08 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:33 FIQ: There was in fact a bug where you could pray while permaturned into an undead and your god would rehumanize you and you would keep the intrinsic unchanging. If you try that now, your god will succeed in dessicating your body but fail to actually renew your life, which just kills you. 08:34 As green slime, apparently I put some check in that stops prayer from doing this as well, but I can't remember it. 08:38 [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Wiz Syl Fem Cha) reached the bottom of the Mines, on T:4542 08:52 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 08:55 feeling like death warmed over sucks 08:56 :/ 08:56 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) was given their Quest, on T:8741 08:57 FIQ: Hmm, maybe I should re-allow that, since it amounts to a lawful alignment benefit. 08:58 Since the "Walk no more, perversion of nature!" is only for lawfuls (and a 10% chance for neutrals which should probably be removed) 09:00 Status of the gray dragon (lawful): Level 14 HP 22(22) Pw 20(20) AC -1. 09:00 I don't think monsters are getting any decent HP growth 09:01 Well, you're not going to be able to make it completely symmetric, monsters don't have races or roles. 09:01 aosdict: Sure 09:01 But they're getting far less than they should 09:01 Atm I have a generic RoleAdvance, for monsters 09:02 /* Generic advancement for monsters */ 09:02 #define HPADV {4,1,2,4,5,6,7,8,9} 09:02 #define ENADV {0,1,1,2,2,3,3,4,4} 09:02 But monsters are supposed to start out with 12 con by default 09:02 meaning the dragon would have 4 + 4*14 HP 09:02 last time I checked, 4 + 4*14 isn't 22 09:03 (Values are slightly fuzzed, to provide for variety monster-wise, but not to that extent) 09:03 Actually, let me disable that 09:03 maybe that's where things go wrong 09:04 Yeah that's more like it 09:04 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 09:04 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 09:06 so the fuzzing was the culprit 09:06 ? 09:06 yeah 09:06 I screwed up the code there 09:08 OK so I think the internals is ready 09:08 Now I just need to improve some numbers HP/Pw growth-wise for some monsters 09:16 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 2428 points, T:4093, killed by a gold golem 09:17 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 09:17 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] Tmasher (Ana Dwa Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:5998 09:33 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the Master of Thieves, on T:9896 09:36 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 09:54 K2: FIQHack updated. New HP/Pw growth system; see http://home.fiq.se/attr_table.txt for how it works 09:55 FIQ: Did this end up entailing defining more constants than previously existed? Not that that's a problem, just wondering. 09:55 FIQ ok cool 09:55 i'll get to it soon 09:57 Considering that the old HP/Pw growth system was completely scrapped, I anticipate that I will likely have to do some number changes 10:14 aosdict: feel free to fix my wikitables into actual wikitables, I don't know how they work 10:15 Eh it would take me at least half an hour which I really don't have right now. 10:16 all good 10:16 just if you wanted to 10:16 it's fine as-is 10:17 yani: mass naming corse possission "probably cursed" 10:17 *corpse 10:18 I think I would probably split it into a HP and a Pw component, because while having them together is doable you would have to have a lot of nasty colspans. 10:19 I also want to plot these as a function of Con/Wis. But I also don't have time for that. 10:27 LarienTelrunya: that is disgusting, also "while while" 10:28 yeah that error will be fixed 10:29 aosdict: To be fair, even SLASH'EM had toilets 10:29 Toilets yes. Vulgarities, not so much. 10:29 wtf, in dnethack even a ring mail doesn't grant more AC than a leather armor??? 10:30 Ring mail is in that large category of armor that I basically never use ever, because any role that needs AC that bad would be burdened. 10:31 well I'm playing dnhslex so no burdening, but I still don't wear it because leather armor gives less spellcasting penalty (not that my cavedwarf had any spells, but still) 10:32 hey I found another and it's +1! this is actually better than the leather armor :P 10:32 jonadab: I don't think anyone's come up with a suitable (no pun intended) solution for this problem yet. 10:45 aosdict: Indeed. dtsund's proposal for DSM, combined with the dnethack extra-properties for various scale colors, and FIQHack's extrinsic immunity vs intrinsic partial resistance, solves the problem of all ascension kits armor being one of two things (SDSM or GDSM). But it does not address the early game. 10:46 jonadab: It does... 10:46 SLASH'EM allows you to take a dump, as per above 10:46 It exercises constitution 10:48 also, FIQHack reduces weight of several of the "useless" armor pieces 10:48 Yes, but "take a dump" is a (mostly) socially acceptable euphemism. 10:48 It's considered G-rated. 10:49 (Which words are considered too vulgar for polite company is an important aspect of the culture of a language...) 10:49 jonadab: I used it, yes, but SLASH'EM makes it explicit... 10:49 it's slex, it doesn't even try to be G-rated :P 10:49 Just like in slex 10:49 There is literally no difference 10:50 here 10:50 Ah. 10:55 SLEX: Proving that you can make an R rated ASCII game. Or possibly NC-17 10:56 Probably just R. I think. 10:56 But yeah, definitely not gonna be G or PG. 10:57 Not with casual references to human trafficking for sexual exploitation. 10:57 And such. 10:59 I mean, the occasional use of non-family-friendly words like "shit" can slide into a PG rating. E.T. got away with it, for example. 11:00 But if the protagonist keeps a leashed Asian girl? I think not. 11:12 [hdf-us] [nd] TheDiaz (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 21 points, T:203, killed by a goblin 11:14 jonadab: dtsund-DSM only solves the ascension kit problem if you are okay with all ascension kits including foo-scaled something, which is rather subjective. 11:14 But yes, the early game is problematic. 11:15 Particularly because if you're OK with spellcasting being blocked, you still basically are hoping only for mithril. 11:15 I think when combined with making the various colors of scales useful by adding extra properties to them, I am ok with ascension kits generally having scaled something. 11:15 And if you aren't, well then you're going to have to find a studded leather armor and live with it. 11:15 But yeah, early game is a whole nother kettle of fish. 11:16 I'm tempted to say that part of the problem is the heavy armors being _too_ heavy. 11:16 In practice, nobody can carry them until late enough in the game that they've got mithril anyway. 11:21 Like Chris_ANG and I have been talking about regarding corpse nutrition, it would probably be okay if they were given a pure-gameplay rebalance at the expense of flavor. 11:22 But I would prefer first a system which decreases the effective weight of worn armor. 11:23 The problem isn't necessarily that nobody can carry the heavy armors, it's that the player a) wants to max their AC but b) wants to carry around as much loot as possible because stash management is boring. 11:23 Especially in the early game, it's boring. 11:28 And armor weight has a direct effect on the maximum loot you can tote around. 11:29 True. 11:31