00:00 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1491 00:13 [hdf-us] [nd] koumakan (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 294 points, T:1059, killed by a garter snake, while fainted from lack of food 00:22 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 00:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 12997 points, T:5146, killed by a dwarf 00:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 134 points, T:207, killed by a grid bug 00:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 148 points, T:68, killed by a water moccasin 00:30 -!- deadnoob_ has joined #hardfought 00:34 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:35 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu) was given the Kiku-ichimonji, on T:1808 00:36 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu) was given Sickle Moon, on T:2141 00:36 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 00:40 -!- deadnoob_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:45 <@mtf> nope 00:45 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/426602361444892673/unknown.png 00:45 <@mtf> not always on level 7 00:45 <@mtf> FIQ: this time it was on level 9 00:45 <@mtf> ....... 00:47 <@mtf> cannot believe this just got me again 00:47 [hdf-us] [fh] MTF (mtf) (Ran Hum Mal Cha), 42424 points, T:6580, killed by a jabberwock, while sleeping 00:48 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu), 3641 points, T:4646, killed by a bat 00:48 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:48 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 00:51 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu), 53 points, T:201, killed by a water demon 00:52 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +3 atma weapon", on T:190 00:53 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2409 01:14 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Pri Hum Fem Neu), 9120 points, T:3368, killed by a warbat, while frozen by a monster's gaze 01:25 [hdf-us] [nd] redshirt (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 250 points, T:812, killed by an acid blob 02:02 [hdf-us] [nd] 3zigma (Val Hum Fem Law), 122991 points, T:31191, killed by a chameleon imitating a minotaur 02:03 whoof 02:09 i need to make a habit of not traveling square to square whatsoever 02:09 three keystrokes to walk down a hallway did me in 02:10 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 02:10 -!- stenno is now known as Guest57703 02:12 -!- ezigma is now known as gnosise 02:13 -!- gnosise is now known as _zigma 02:15 -!- Guest57703 has quit [Changing host] 02:15 -!- Guest57703 has joined #hardfought 02:15 -!- Guest57703 is now known as stenno 02:17 -!- _zigma has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:22 -!- _zigma has joined #hardfought 02:43 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 02:52 !tell mtf Marija certainly didn't cause that bones level; she was that player's original pet. Well, unless she was conflicted or turned on him. But he may well have died of something else. 02:52 LarienTelrunya: Message from @mtf at 2018-03-22 19:03 EDT: I want to say that I really like the way the main dungeon all fits together... Exploring slex floors is actually really fun, I never know what I'm going to run into 02:52 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 03:04 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:16 [hdf-us] [nh4] cpittman (Val Dwa Fem Law), 109535 points, T:68557, killed by invisible Famine (with the Amulet) 03:27 -!- _zigma has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:31 !tell K2 yesterday I was eating at your namesake's restaurant: https://abload.de/img/20180322_1127370ss69.jpg ;) 03:31 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 03:34 -!- _zigma has joined #hardfought 03:41 -!- [Demo]1 has joined #hardfought 03:43 Chris_ANG: is there a specific reason why after all these years, dnethack apparently still doesn't have neither showweight nor invweight? (or does it have them and I'm too stupid to find them? :D) 03:44 -!- [Demo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:47 also why is AD_BLNK not in the list of random gazes :P 03:50 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 03:50 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 03:53 [hdf-us] [nh4] cpittman (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 18554 points, T:703, killed by a coyote 03:57 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:59 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 03:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 03:59 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:02 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Client Quit] 04:02 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 04:02 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 04:21 [hdf-us] [nd] 3zigma (Pri Hum Fem Law) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3268 04:26 [hdf-us] [nd] 3zigma (Pri Hum Fem Law), 880 points, T:4029, killed by a homunculus, while frozen by a monster's gaze 04:28 <_zigma> every fucking time 04:28 <_zigma> cannot walk through hallways 04:29 play fh if you want to avoid floting eye typo deaths 04:30 <_zigma> fh? 04:30 <_zigma> oh FIQhack? 04:30 yes 04:31 <_zigma> i'm guessing it does something like what DCSS does? "A floating eye comes into view!" 04:31 play slex if you want to avoid floating eye typo deaths, it makes the paralysis duration sane :D 04:32 nah, it has a slowing gaze and passive 04:32 <_zigma> no i understand what my problem is 04:32 <_zigma> i'm not methodical enough 04:32 <_zigma> i should be using long-walk every time 04:32 instead of 127 turns of przz 04:32 _zigma: IMHO vanilla is terribly designed in that regard, you're never safe from opening a door and having one of those dark blue ***** that used to be behind the door pick that turn to move up and then you try to walk through the door and blam DYWYPI. 04:33 fh also has stuff like autoexplore 04:33 <_zigma> maybe 04:33 and oter QoL 04:33 other 04:33 <_zigma> yeah autoexplore is well-implemented in DCSS, maybe a little less so in NH4 04:34 <_zigma> incidentally i just got on this huge roguelikes kick as "research" for a thesis I'm writing 04:34 heh 04:34 <_zigma> i've done a lot of thinking about how the DCSS interface compares to NH 04:34 what is it about 04:34 the nh3 ui is awful fwiw 04:35 <_zigma> well, in digital humanities scholarship jargon it's about "textuality" 04:35 btw 04:36 what do you mean with nh4 autoexplore being flawed 04:36 <_zigma> the roguelikes are interesting from a semiotic point of view, i'm kind of wondering if there's some existing scholarship I haven't been able to find 04:36 out of curiousity 04:36 <_zigma> oh i don't know about flawed, it just seems less smooth than DCSS to me 04:36 <_zigma> i haven't put any serious time into NH4 so idk 04:36 perhaps because dcss isd esigned around you autoexploring 04:36 <_zigma> but the DCSS autoexplore really slaps 04:37 nethack isn't (which is deliberate) 04:37 <_zigma> yeah i would agree with that 04:38 <_zigma> however DCSS does more to automate the tedium... keeping every item stash in memory across the whole dungeon 04:38 fh does that 04:38 _zigma: wow, a thesis about roguelike game design sounds like a very interesting project :) 04:38 object memory 04:39 <_zigma> yeah i was working out some very rewarding insights until i got addicted to the research ;) 04:39 it makes thngs muc more convenent 04:39 things much 04:39 sorry, on phone 04:40 <_zigma> so it seems to me that, as annoying as your typo instadeaths from floating eyes can be, it's a feature not a bug 04:40 that was fun to implement... took weeks to get t bug free 04:41 floatng eyes s poor design imo 04:41 is 04:41 <_zigma> because they can be avoided with a deliberate enough style, in which you long-travel everywhere instead of tapping the directional keys 04:42 <_zigma> one could counter that this is a restriction on gaming style, and that it's poor design because attack and movement are accomplished with the same key 04:42 FIQ: yep, just like cockatrice stoning instadeath from punching them is when you're polymorphed into a form with touching melee attacks :P 04:42 nh4 and derivatives adhere to something called the Interhack policy 04:42 <_zigma> i will check out FIQhack for sure 04:42 <_zigma> what is the interhack policy? 04:43 if an ui enhancer (like Interhack) can remove a game obstacle 04:43 it is badly designed 04:43 this covers floating eye typo deaths 04:43 walking into water or lava 04:43 amnesia 04:43 etc 04:44 LarienTelrunya: I agree 04:44 <_zigma> how does Interhack UI design defeat amnesia? 04:44 I have code that prevents this n one of my local branches 04:44 by recalling forgotten maps and objects for you 04:45 <_zigma> i don't get it though... that seems like it doesn't circumvent amnesia so much as it just undoes it 04:45 <_zigma> the character forgetting the object identities and maps is the effect of amnesia, right? 04:46 Evil Patch idea: if you get amnesia in-game, the ttyrec of your game is also scrambled and simply fails to display the parts that are in levels whose maps you forgot. 04:52 _zigma: while you're at it, you might also want to check out slex, then you can include the craziest nethack fork in existence in your thesis :) 04:52 back 04:52 _zigma: semantics... 04:52 the point is, it avoids the mechanic 04:53 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:64402 04:54 [hdf-us] [fh] Klesser (3zigma) (Pri Hum Mal Law), 5821 points, T:455, killed by a Mr. Kinsky, the shopkeeper's wand 04:54 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:64415 04:55 <_zigma> maybe i should turn my screen brightness up 04:58 !tell K2 pushed change: bones can no longer be created on < 04:58 Will do, FIQ! 04:59 this should reduce cases like the jabberwock shenanigans that has been going on lately 04:59 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:64434 04:59 where there is a bones with a jabberwock right next to the upstairs, who will gladly oneshot you the moment you enter the level 05:02 <_zigma> there's one feature in DCSS that I think would work really well in NetHack 05:02 which is 05:02 ? 05:02 <_zigma> the player-character stays centered on the screen 05:02 I strongly dislike this feature 05:02 <_zigma> think of it this way 05:02 and in fact turn it off on DCSS 05:03 <_zigma> lol alright 05:03 But as an option? Eh... not sure if anyone has ever asked for it until now 05:03 Curses interface has something like that, but the only reason it exists is for tiny screens 05:03 <_zigma> it certainly wouldn't be doing the player any favors 05:03 My curses refactor drops support for this 05:03 <_zigma> think of it this way 05:03 one of the nicest things about nethack is IMHO that the entire playing field is visible on the screen at all times 05:03 _zigma: go on 05:04 none of that inane scrolling from angband or dcss present :P 05:04 sorry, it's just not something I like, but I'd like to hear other people's take on it 05:04 because there's a lot of roguelikes that does it, so clearly some people like it 05:04 <_zigma> ok first, is there a formal name for how nethack does it? 05:04 <_zigma> just, full screen view or whatever 05:05 I think ais523 likes to call it single screen 05:05 <_zigma> okay 05:05 but not sure if there is a nice term for it 05:05 ask ais523, he'd be the one that knows things like this 05:05 he's not here atm but meh 05:05 <_zigma> so with single screen, it's simpler to satisfy yourself with having fully explored a level, without using magic mapping 05:06 <_zigma> since there won't be, or at least is less likely to be, hidden passageways past the limits of the screen 05:06 <_zigma> i mean if you start out from the edge or the corner, that's half the work of searching cut out for you 05:07 <_zigma> but it's totally unrealistic and kinda "metagamey" far as dungeon crawl goes 05:07 <_zigma> because the explorer does not have this neat frame with well-defined limits 05:08 I see 05:08 Hmm yes, that is a good point 05:09 <_zigma> i'm thinking of how clairvoyance is only effective within a limited area---in an implementation with the explorer always centered, things like telepathy would work the same way... but for magic mapping, or a fully explored area, there could be a separate level-view screen 05:11 DCSS has really beautiful designed levels. but because of autoexploring and the size of them, i often can't really appreciate them 05:11 <_zigma> agreed 05:11 isn't it so that in Nethack, if you emerge on a level in the northwest corner of the screen, you also know that it's probably not worthwile to try exploring to the north or west from there? 05:12 <_zigma> yeah pretty much LarienTelrunya 05:12 <_zigma> i mean, like i said, the always-centered interface isn't doing anyone any favors 05:13 <_zigma> it's not so important in DCSS because there aren't even any hidden doors 05:13 nethack hidden doors/corridors is very hard on newbies 05:14 unnethack removes them entirely aside from guranteed places, fiqhack makes it much easier to search for them 05:15 <_zigma> i just lost a promising game because i went up and down levels 2-5 looking for the Gnomish Mines entrance and was getting impatient... then along came the floating eye 05:15 nethack hidden doors/corridors shouldn't take 20+ attempts to find for a fresh character, YANI: make them more difficult to find the deeper down they are, and easier on shallow levels :D 05:16 <_zigma> having to search 20 times for a hidden passage isn't realistically immersive, either 05:16 <_zigma> like, how well-hidden can it really be 05:18 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:18 I changed that in fiqhack, but some people think I made it too easy 05:18 <_zigma> i'm thinking of how there are old D&D heads who complain about too much reliance on mechanics like "Perception check" 05:18 for the record, unless you have negative luck, a single search attempt will reveal doors/corridors next to you 05:19 <_zigma> because it makes the game too much about dice rolls 05:20 <_zigma> "you rolled an 18: you find the secret switch" vs. some kind of puzzle for the players themselves to solve 05:21 _zigma: sounds like the solution is to limit the effectiveness of that kind of things to people with very high perception 05:21 and otherwise just let them find it on their own with vague details 05:21 (giving more details based on a hidden roll or something) 05:22 -!- ProzacElf_ has joined #hardfought 05:22 D&D can get away with things like that 05:22 <_zigma> that makes sense 05:22 in NetHack, it pretty much has to be a roll, but the way it does it atm is flawed 05:22 there ought to be a "max search amount" at the very least 05:22 What do you want to dip your potion of object detection into? 05:22 a - a water 05:22 you're guranteed to find something after X searches 05:23 that's what I get standing on a pool in ww boots 05:23 <_zigma> >unless you have negative luck, a single search attempt will reveal hidden doors/corridors 05:23 <_zigma> that sounds like a sensible implementation 05:23 _zigma: That is what FIQHack does. ais523 in particular argues that it makes optimal play "search everywhere always" 05:24 which is tedious 05:24 <_zigma> i hate the directional/search tapdance 05:24 I'd argue that this is no worse than pudding farming or similar degenerate strategies 05:24 i.e. the solution is just "don't do that" 05:25 <_zigma> that argument really just reduces to how tedious searching is in vanilla 05:26 <_zigma> tedium shouldn't be a barrier to exploration 05:26 elenmirie: hmm 05:27 <_zigma> i think i'd still rely on my sense of the level generator to determine which searches i do 05:27 <_zigma> which, of course, includes those hard limits at the edges of the screen 05:29 -!- ProzacElf_ is now known as ProzacElf 05:31 <_zigma> to be clear i'm agreeing with you against ais523. lol 05:31 <_zigma> bless them 05:37 !tell aosdict getobj updated with a small bug fix related to how water is referred to 05:37 Will do, FIQ! 05:49 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 05:49 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 06:16 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:32 [hdf-us] [sp] 3zigma (Rog Elf Fem Neu), 5326 points, T:4587, killed by an ogre 06:34 [hdf-us] [sp] 3zigma (Rog Elf Mal Cha), 49 points, T:328, killed by a jackal 06:38 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 07:00 [hdf-us] [nd] Eleven (Pri Hum Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:11491 07:12 !tell jonadab you're invited to comment on https://www.reddit.com/r/slashemextended/comments/86j78f/woohoo_we_made_it_to_rroguelikedev_feedback_friday/ :) *bundlebundlebundle* ♥ 07:12 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 07:15 I am sure you will get lots of interesting feedback. 07:15 jonadab: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-03-23 07:12 EDT: you're invited to comment on https://www.reddit.com/r/slashemextended/comments/86j78f/woohoo_we_made_it_to_rroguelikedev_feedback_friday/ :) *bundlebundlebundle* ♥ 07:15 Well, you played it, I'm interested in seeing what your feedback will be ;) 07:17 !tell ais523 If I wnoutrefresh a window and later destroy it, will the content still be visible in a doupdate? 07:17 Will do, FIQ! 07:18 LarienTelrunya: My feedback is as follows: "リろタ どタッタ なだ オッな： リろタ どタッタ ヰが しげッぎん ロら。 れんッテ どタ ルタッテ イねッタッキ オ ＆ サどケ。 をんし ねんセ れう ラご サなッテ イねッタ イそんッチんッタ ぎん ロらッタ ぐを オッぎん ロら。 ぎん ロらッタ ヰご オッな： イッエテ 07:18 レ オッで ででッラん。 イね どタッタ セね オッなだ "だ ヱれ" ヱれッケん レで エト レでッタ ヱれッヱんッで サ ルにッサ サな エテ。 をんし ヱれ をんし ヱれッで トをッテ イね どタッタ うがん オッごんッサ ぢタッオん" 07:18 jonadab: I think LarienTelrunya would prefer English 07:18 ORLY 07:18 Is your slex patience running out 07:19 "Rita Tata Tatta Nodame Odd: Rita Tata and Tatashi Shigeru Lot. Let's do it Let's do it Thank you for your continued support. Let 's take a look at Rotarita Rotarashita Rotarashi Rotarashi Rockhouse Rotarashi Rotarashi __[12: 20] <+ jonadab> In a rush, it is dangerous. It 's a good idea, "I wonder what you are doing" and it' s easy to learn at Ettore and it is a cheerful apple. I will do my best at the farewell party. Tat 07:19 ^^ is that what your japanese means? 07:19 [hdf-us] [sp] 3zigma (Rog Elf Fem Cha), 1981 points, T:4055, killed by a werejackal 07:19 It isn't actually Japanese. 07:19 also who is Rita Tata? 07:19 It's a representation of the first section of the Book of Woo. 07:20 "a cheerful apple" LOL 07:20 slex monster when 07:20 Any actual Japanese words that occur are a coincidence. 07:20 FIQ: #nextversion ;) 07:21 LarienTelrunya: If you can decrypt it within the next month or two, there's a $500 prize. 07:21 jonadab: but LarienTelrunya wanted your feedback 07:21 Which has gone unclaimed for a couple of years so far. 07:21 so you should go and give her your completely honest, black-and-white, no punches pulled, feedback 07:22 that is how I managed to mostly stop LarienTelrunya from pestering me about slex for a while 07:22 FIQ: of course you're invited to give feedback too ♥ 07:22 no thanks 07:22 awwwwww 07:22 I don't like getting impolite 07:22 s/getting/being/ 07:23 don't worry, I can handle it! 07:23 yeah but this is reddit 07:23 FIQ: There's no point. Everything I say to her is taken as meaning more or less exactly the opposite of what I clearly intended. 07:23 jonadab: hmm 07:23 there is an obvious way to work-around that 07:23 after all, I've been called "harlot" or even "cunt" on 4chan and got told dozens of times to jump off a bridge, I'm pretty thick-skinned by now :P 07:23 LarienTelrunya: that is different 07:23 jonadab: I got the following with google translate. I find it strangely profound. 07:23 you *expect* that kind of threats by lurking 4chan 07:24 "The Thatta is odd: the Thatta ヰ of the ring. Tote Lutatte Lee Tacchi au & SA. The Tote of the Ta Lee and the Switch Ta, and the Ta of a. ヰ Ta-odd: La at Iste. It is a et Ta in the Goemon in Shu processors in ether in Goemon often les Goemon "It is Thatta. Goemon, Goemon, Tote, Thatta Ugan gon processors Tao " 07:24 LarienTelrunya: We don't want to turn /r/roguelikedev into 4chan. 07:24 let me put it this way 07:24 what would hurt you the most 07:24 being murdered by words by some random 4chan lurker 07:25 Or having github ban you for slex. 07:25 or, seriously and honest (and not as some weird joke) by our roommate 07:25 *your 07:25 well, my roommate thinks I'm completely crazy anyway for "staring at a screen with letters bumping into each other for hours" :P 07:26 4chan murdering me with words the moment I posted there didn't hurt me the slighest 07:26 I mean, I'll probably not do the mistake I did again 07:26 but yeah 07:26 of course harsh words from someone I like do hurt, but I already know that you hate slex and that you'd totally trash the game in an honest review, so... bring it on, I can take it :D 07:27 as I said 07:27 I don't like being impolite 07:27 I have already done this once, I don't need to again 07:28 fwiw I don't hate slex, I just don't like a certain person constantly spamming about it all the time each and every day and constantly telling me to play it despite me saying several times that I wasn't interested 07:28 that is why I snapped 07:30 ah, I see 07:34 LarienTelrunya: it takes 7 wand zaps to go to b asic 07:34 *basic 07:34 LarienTelrunya: your roommate only is allowed to cast the first stone, if she doesn't play candy crush or any other mind numbing, repetitive game :-) 07:34 20 to go to skilled 07:34 and 24 to expert 07:35 bhaak: she plays sudoku basically every day *yawn* 07:35 FIQ: well I already kinda knew that; are you referring to some slex message where I said it takes too long? :D 07:35 yes 07:36 + "wtf how many 200 wand zaps does it take to up that ridiculous wand skill in that stupid wand destruction patch nethack fourk?", 07:36 yeah that 200 was obviously an exaggeration 07:36 LarienTelrunya: ha :-D 07:36 jlob 07:37 !tell K2 pushed a small fix: better wording on corridorbranch 07:37 Will do, FIQ! 07:41 FIQ: ah, I've hoped to see that change, now the description of that option is much clearer :) 07:42 the option is backwards really 07:42 but I didn't want to mess up everyone's options 07:42 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:43 LarienTelrunya: I said "borderline lie" because it isn't an outright lie, but is a really misleading statement 07:44 because you *never* mention *how* it happens 07:44 you imply any monster can trivially genocide you 07:44 LarienTelrunya: don't expect too much of feedback friday. the general roguelike development mindset of nethack is not very pretty. at best it's an outdated standard that everybody wants to finally forgot :) 07:44 this is completely untrue and you know that 07:44 bhaak: jonadab got plenty of feedback for 4k, positive and negative 07:45 I got basically no feedback at all, because of really bad timing (it was right after Fourk) 07:45 FIQ: yes, it is rather rare for it to happen, but my beef is that it can happen at all, and it just feels so incredibly cheesy if it does 07:45 not even life saving will save you from it! 07:45 LarienTelrunya: please do not try to mislead is all I am saying 07:45 you are, and you know that 07:46 FIQ: I got substantial feedback from two (2) players. Plus one other who said "I keep meaning to play NetHack but no time today." 07:46 Granted, the feedback I got _from_ those two players was pretty good. 07:47 jonadab: I mean, did you look at what I got 07:47 But we're not talking about dozens of people here. 07:47 I basically got no feedback at all 07:47 and there usually isn't that much feedback on feedback friday 07:47 hi 07:47 Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought 07:47 K2: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-03-23 03:31 EDT: yesterday I was eating at your namesake's restaurant: https://abload.de/img/20180322_1127370ss69.jpg ;) 07:47 K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-23 04:58 EDT: pushed change: bones can no longer be created on < 07:47 K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-23 07:37 EDT: pushed a small fix: better wording on corridorbranch 07:47 Right, I'm just saying I got it from like two people, so the availability of time for those two people to play on any given day is essentially random. 07:47 Kyzrati basically always give feedback 07:48 I'm not convinced that being right after Fourk was your problem. It might have just randomly not been a good day for the small number of people involved. 07:48 I think he does this as a jumping point, to encourage others to also do it 07:48 jonadab: Hmm 07:48 Let's take a look at some statistics 07:48 yeah https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikedev/comments/7t2p9n/feedback_friday_33_fiqhack/ has people talking about Fourk all the time, instead of giving actual feedback for FIQhack?! weird 07:48 maybe the slex feedback friday will have people talk about FIQhack to compensate ;) 07:48 FWIW I don't mind too much, it's too bad, but nothing I can do about it 07:49 but I do think that fiqhack was an anomaly in usual feedback friday numbers, and I chalk it up to the timing 07:49 let me check the earlier ones 07:49 to compare 07:50 LarienTelrunya: both comments there about Fourk are from the same one (1) user, Widmo. 07:50 oh, didn't notice that 07:51 Who, incidentally, didn't comment on the Fourk feedback friday. 07:51 I think what you're really looking at here is that the community around Feedback Friday is small, and participation is sporadic. 07:52 OK, so I ran through all the ones except for #25 which has been deleted (I do know which one it is though, and remember it having plenty of feedback) 07:52 The only comparable one is Orbiz, which got a single feedback entry 07:53 FIQHack, for comparision, got zero 07:53 Well, you got a "didn't have time to do it justice", plus Widmo's similar remarks. 07:53 But yes, nothing of substance. 07:54 Right 07:54 Anyway yes, I don't really think people have a grudge on FIQHack or anything of that sorts, I just think it was bad timing 07:54 Part of the problem may be that NetHack is not a one-day game. 07:54 And you aren't convincing me that it isn't :P 07:55 jonadab: But you got feedback 07:55 [hdf-us] [sp] 3zigma (Rog Elf Mal Cha), 682 points, T:1560, killed by an invisible wererat 07:55 I did. From two users. 07:55 Yes 07:55 Substantial feedback 07:55 True. 07:55 You know two users is pretty much the average? 07:56 Ah. 07:56 So yeah, small community. 07:57 And you got below-average results on top of that. 07:58 #34 (last one before slex) has 3, #33 has 0, #32 has 2, #31 has 2, #30 has 4, #29 has 6 07:58 some stats 07:58 Interesting. 07:58 YOu're counting only ones with some substance? 07:59 Yes 07:59 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:59 Can't count the slex one yet, it's still Friday. 07:59 And excluding "I can't run this" 07:59 Indeed 07:59 Right. 07:59 (#31 is 4k, #33 is FIQHack if it wasn't obvious) 08:00 Ah. 08:00 I think slex will suffer similarly, possible even moreso than FIQHack -- but on the other hand, it stands out 08:00 so it might get some regardless 08:00 * jonadab shudders to think what it will be. 08:00 and is a NH3 derivative rather than NH4 08:01 That may not win it any points in THAT crowd. 08:01 yeah I think that is a strike *against* it 08:01 These are people who think a roguelike doesn't need to run in a terminal at all for any reason, remember. 08:01 LarienTelrunya: did you point out that curses interface exists 08:01 FIQ: oh shit, I guess I didn't 08:01 otherwise you're basically forcing people into the tty interface, don't expect that crowd to mess with options 08:01 And probably shouldn't be open-source, and should be on steam, and doesn't need to necessarily be turn-based, ... 08:02 jonadab: they don't mind open source 08:02 (in fact it's probably a bonus -- this is r/roguelikedev, not r/roguelikes ) 08:02 yeah I guess the average joe over there will open it, say "looks shit, controls shit, everything shit", and close it without leaving any feedback 08:02 FIQ: Hmm, well, they don't seem to award any *points* for open-source, at the least. 08:02 I think they consider it an exotic form of indie. 08:02 jonadab: right, but I don't think it's a strike against it 08:02 No, not like the UI stuff will be. 08:03 LarienTelrunya: does the curses UI even work on windows 08:03 FIQ: it does, in my Let's Play I did one character in curses mode on windows 08:03 I mean, it should, but does the slex download has it 08:03 ahh 08:03 *have 08:03 yeah it's included in the download :) 08:04 YANI: if you haven't explicitly set a window port in your options file, you get to choose on startup 08:04 FIQ: Most window ports are a separate executable. 08:04 hmm? 08:04 heh, just wanted to say that ;) 08:04 curses/tty/x11 are in one 08:05 jonadab: well this would mostly matter for tty vs curses anyway 08:05 I'm not sure about qt 08:05 bhaak: Oh, X11 too? DIdn't realize that. 08:05 And yes, tty and curses are in one. 08:05 at least for windows, curses mode has its own executable (and so does tiles in regular nethack) 08:05 Ah, if it has its own executable, they may find it better than if it's an option. 08:05 yes, on Windows they are separate 08:05 YASI: implement a tty windowport emulator in curses, remove the tty windowport 08:07 FIQ: I'd object to that, because the tty window port doesn't put things in the .ttyrec that make stock ttyplay not work right. 08:07 jonadab: I am working on a curses refactor with libuncursed 08:07 Considering the ttyrecs are a large part of why I play on a public server, this seems important to me. 08:07 Oh, libuncursed would be good. 08:07 That would solve several issues. 08:07 It actually works fine right now, but the code is still a bit weird 08:07 hence the refactor part 08:07 I see. 08:08 While you're at it, make libuncursed support 8-bit and 24-bit color, and port Brogue to it :-) 08:08 I am not touching libuncursed 08:08 Hell, I am working around a bug in it 08:08 aww 08:09 Initializing color pairs will set the given color pair to that color, but will only enable all color pairs up to but not including the one you initialized 08:09 FIQhack updated (us and eu) 08:09 Actually it wont even change the color pair you are initializing 08:10 Unless it was initialized previously 08:10 So what I do 08:10 is to set color pair 500 (way beyond what I need) to a dummy color 08:10 This will not work 08:10 But will initialize all color pairs up to 499 08:10 So from that point, I can initialize colors as normal 08:11 You should file a bug against the documentation, to the effect that the need to do this should be documented :-) 08:12 jonadab: for a while I was wondering why colors was broken in curses UI after the libuncursed switchover 08:12 I figured I broke something 08:12 turns out that curses UI wasn't what was broken... 08:12 How does this not bother NH4? 08:12 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: buuuuuundlebundlebundle!] 08:13 Not sure, I assume that the highest color pair is initialized first, and happens to be correct from NH4's point of view by accident 08:41 [hdf-us] [sp] 3zigma (Rog Elf Mal Cha), 4819 points, T:3950, killed by an ape 08:46 <_zigma> playing 3.6 and my kitten is spazzing out in the northwest corner of dlevel 2 08:47 <_zigma> there must be catnip on the other side of the window 08:47 <_zigma> i gave the the thing like 200 turns to leave the room, nothing doing 08:48 northwest corner 08:48 that might be a bug 08:48 towards the northwest corner is where 0,0 is 08:49 _zigma: are you playing 3.6.0 or 3.6.1? 08:50 <_zigma> 3.6.1 08:50 <_zigma> er, my bad 08:50 <_zigma> northeast 08:50 hm 08:50 ok 08:51 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 08:52 [hdf-us] [nd] firemonkey (Ran Hum Mal Cha), 84 points, T:249, killed by a sewer rat 08:55 FIQ: _zigma: I've decided to write up a search mini-proposal before going to start and implement any of this in xnethack. However, I disagree with FIQ (and vanilla) that "eventually given enough time everything should be findable" because it means the optimal strategy is to spam s or #untrap a ridiculous amount of times. 08:55 aosdict: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-23 05:37 EDT: getobj updated with a small bug fix related to how water is referred to 08:55 oh, FIQ already mentioned that :P 09:00 aosdict: if you want not everything to be findable, something like this might work: a secret door/corridor has a value assigned to it, a d4 roll modified by intelligence and search bonus determines if you can find it at all, and if so, how likely you are to find it 09:00 with luck purely affecting the d4 and not a modifier on top of it 09:00 jonadab: [backscroll] fwiw my personal definition of roguelikes is strictly about gameplay - so a closed-source non-terminal-capable game on steam could still be a roguelike as long as it hits all the correct gameplay notes 09:00 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:01 FIQ: Yes, that is basically what I was suggesting with elenmirie yesterday. 09:02 hmm 09:02 I feel that rnl is flawed 09:02 it makes luck have far too much of an impact IMO 09:02 all rng functions are flawed except rn2. praise it 09:03 -!- hpardis has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:05 I wonder how a distribution like this would look like: http://home.fiq.se/rnl.txt 09:12 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 09:13 aosdict: ^ 09:14 movemon() isn't in monmove.c but in mon.c 09:14 of course 09:15 -!- emar has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:16 Yes, but m_move is in monmove.c. 09:17 also, wait what does rnl have to do with monster movement 09:17 or anything we've been talking about 09:18 -!- emar has joined #hardfought 09:21 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 1722 points, T:307, killed by Ms. Kittamagh, the shopkeeper 09:22 aosdict: Searching 09:22 Luck is involved in searching 09:22 It uses rnl 09:22 That is why the search rate with negative luck is absolutely ridiculous 09:22 So in a similar vein (but not mainly search-related) I proposed a change to rnl 09:23 Oh, I don't think luck should really be involved in searching. 09:23 (with "ridiculous" I mean, it takes around 1.2k searches to be 95% certain that you find a secret door at -3 luck) 09:23 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 248 points, T:470, killed by a gecko 09:24 khoR_ was annoyed by this when playing Convict 09:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 85 points, T:133, killed by a jackal 09:24 aosdict: Ah, perhaps 09:27 [hdf-us] [nd] 3zigma (Pri Hum Fem Law), 1963 points, T:5235, killed by a wand 09:29 @4k?asmodeus 09:29 hmmm 09:32 jonadab: something I've been meaning to mention... the tileset in fourk is weird on my terminal. Some of the glyphs take more than one terminal character and they end up overlapping. Could be a wider NH4/dynahack issue I guess. 09:34 screenshot: https://0x0.st/sBQd.png 09:34 Tangles: dragons? 09:35 Yes, and open doors 09:35 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 2946 points, T:2463, killed by a rothe 09:35 open doors look weird but shouldn't mess up drawing in general 09:36 dragons use fancy unicode chars 09:36 Tangles: try change the tileset to legac 09:36 y 09:36 ok 09:37 hah it's literally the last option in the menu. 09:38 That works (for the dragons at least) 09:44 !tell ais523 Your movement system rewrite doesn't play nice with level changes. For one, monsters get to move on level creation. Another issue is that you can cause monsters to be frozen in time in a level while others move by navigating stairs repeatedly 09:44 Will do, FIQ! 09:44 no wonder I was having issues making bones movement act like level creation 09:44 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) was given Soulmirror, on T:2374 09:44 it is outright broken 09:49 !tell ais523 I think the only feasible solution to the latter problem, if I understand the new system correctly, is to give each level a seperate "flags.actions" 09:49 Will do, FIQ! 09:53 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 09:54 -!- theRaisse has quit [Client Quit] 09:55 [hdf-us] [xnh] krm26 (Arc Hum Fem Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:18276 09:55 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 09:56 Wait, what? Why on earth is Ḋ rendering like THAT? It's a flipping D with a diacritical mark. 09:57 oh my: "I've heard SLASH'EM Extended mentioned a lot over the years, but have barely played any NetHack or its variants. This was a good opportunity to try this one out." 09:57 Oh dear. 09:59 Kyzrati noooo 10:01 -!- raisse is now known as Guest2040 10:02 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) was given Frost Brand, on T:3607 10:02 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 10:02 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 10:04 -!- Guest2040 has quit [Quit: Raisse suddenly disappears!] 10:04 Tangles: For the moment you can work around that by switching tilesets, to ascii or legacy. 10:04 But I will definitely need to look into this, it should not be happening, and I need to understand why it is. 10:06 -!- ahrimen has joined #hardfought 10:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:3979 10:18 <@Tone> What is that quote from, bhaak? 10:19 The roguelikedev thread. 10:20 <@Tone> Ah 10:21 <_zigma> dammit 10:21 <_zigma> ugh 10:21 <_zigma> so mad 10:21 [hdf-us] [nd] 3zigma (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 2607 points, T:5403, killed by a blue jelly 10:22 <_zigma> YASD all over the place 10:22 -!- _zigma has quit [] 10:25 @Kyzrati see above 10:27 please do not take how sex workas how nethack works in genera, it is rather... differen 10:27 s/sex/slex 10:27 I think! 10:27 sould have seen that typo comin and been more careful 10:27 on phone 10:28 let's be honest, seduction is probably different in slex too 10:40 <@Tone> Yeah I don't think I would recommend slex to someone who has barely played nethack 😄 10:41 [hdf-us] [nd] firemonkey (Ran Hum Mal Cha) had Sting bestowed upon him by Mars, on T:2168 10:44 FIQ: in fh searching, what sort of "radius" is used? Square, diagonal, circular? 10:51 square 10:52 manhattan distance 10:52 is used 10:52 to determine the radius 10:52 ah, so diagonal? 10:52 <@Pavel> Why does it keep getting harder to eat food off the floor ;-; 10:53 unless you count a diagonal move as +1 distance 10:53 diagonal move is +1 yes 10:53 <@Pavel> It used to be you just pressed e and it asked if you wanted to eat something on the floor on your tile. 10:53 <@Pavel> Then you pressed e and had to select ,. 10:53 it uses distmin 10:53 YANI: diagonal stinking clouds are weird. Instead of that, you choose your spot to center the cloud and then it grows the cloud by random breadth-first search, allowing it to spread out around obstacles. 10:53 <@Pavel> Now you have to press e, select ,, and then select the cosmestible you want to eat from a list even if there's only one 10:54 @Pavel people were complaining 10:54 also FWIW, "e," isn't harder than "ey" 10:54 wait, didn't you recently push a fix to that? or no, that was only for dungeon features 10:54 it wouldn't have been an issue in NH4 10:54 which has confirmations 10:55 Eating off the floor is quite uncivilized anyway 10:55 but apparently having that in NH3 is bad 10:55 so yeah 10:55 <@Pavel> Maybe we could get an option for floor-eating? 10:55 elenmirie: coming up soon - spiders spin their own webs as they move along 10:55 oooh 10:55 (already implemented, just not pushed) 10:55 that will become really really annoying 10:55 it takes forever to untrap yourself from them 10:55 with low str 10:55 do you only play valk 10:56 FIQ: only if you let a spider bounce around a room for a while. The chance of it spinning a web on a given move is very low. 10:56 aosdict: they will still move if you're far away 10:56 2.5% for giant spiders, 1% for cave spiders, doubled if the spider is in a doorway 10:57 ah 10:57 not as bad as I thought 10:57 I thought they just spewed them out 10:57 guess not 10:57 YANI: lighting a web on fire will spread to other webs, burning them all down. 10:58 FIQ: Also, if you can spot the spider when it spins the web, the web becomes immediately seen. 10:58 And since eating off the floor is uncivilized, it should be easier if you're playing as a caveman 11:00 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) was given Sickle Moon, on T:7687 11:00 <@Pavel> In XNH, you can get excalibur as any lawful, right? 11:00 Yes, same as vanilla. 11:00 <@Pavel> Alright, I know some variants restrict it to knights 11:00 only one 11:00 I might make the level threshold higher at some point, but not now. 11:01 EPI: you can only get Excal by dipping it into a magic fountain, which there is currently no way to discern from a non-magic fountain. 11:02 <@Pavel> Less evil patch idea: ^, but make it so dipping in a magic fountain is either guranteed ot just very likely to give you Excal 11:03 <@Pavel> *or 11:03 -!- ahrimen has quit [Quit: *poof*] 11:04 <@Pavel> Is it just me or has xnh recently increased the rate of random engravings spawning significantly 11:05 Nope, you're just noticing them now where you didn't before ;-) 11:06 <@Pavel> Huh 11:06 <@Pavel> Is a Key a Skeleton Key? 11:06 yeah you step only on a fraction of all the tiles in the game 11:06 and xnh shows all engravings 11:06 Previously, there could be some graffiti, except it was on the opposite half of a room you didn't have any reason to explore, and so you would never know it's there 11:06 even the ones you never see 11:07 <@Pavel> cool 11:07 FIQ: uh, you should only be shown the engravings that you've actually seen or mapped. 11:07 If it's showing engravings from across an unexplored level that's a bug. 11:08 oh I thought that was how it worked 11:08 sorry! 11:08 Wait, have you noticed that? 11:08 Is there a bug? 11:08 <@Pavel> God dammit my sword keeps slipping from my hands 11:08 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 2849 points, T:1268, killed by a magic missile 11:08 I've noticed that engravings show before you read them, is that the way it's supposed to be? 11:08 <@riker> pavel: are your hands greased? 11:08 <@Pavel> I thought only cursed tins contained deep-fried stuff 11:09 but not in unexplored areas (except soko) 11:09 <@riker> nope 11:09 elenmirie: Yes, you can see the engraving tile (that there is an engraving there) from across the room, but you can't read it (for code reasons) until you're actually standing on it 11:09 ok, that's the behaviour I've observed 11:09 <@Pavel> > Pavel the Skirmisher St:18 Dx:12 Co:20 In:7 Wi:8 Ch:10 Lawful > Dlvl:5 $:64 HP:37(37) Pw:5(5) AC:0 Xp:3/62 T:2241 Satiated Stun Conf Hallu 11:09 <@Pavel> > Satiated Stun Conf Hallu 11:10 <@Pavel> Fok 11:10 I think I may also want to tune down the random engraving scuffing a bit. 11:10 <@riker> yeah for some stupid reason glib doesn't show up in vanilla 11:10 <@Pavel> The game is telling me I feel incredibly sick 11:10 <@riker> I like slex's change there 11:10 <@riker> taht's nauseated 11:10 <@riker> doesn't show up there either 11:10 <@Pavel> All I did was 300s 11:10 <@riker> it times out pretty quick, but you'll vomit 11:10 <@riker> pavel: did you eat an egg or tripe before then? 11:10 <@Pavel> Yes 11:11 <@riker> yea those can make you sick 11:11 <@riker> !rng cav | sam | valk | barb 11:11 @riker: cav 11:14 [hdf-us] [nd] firemonkey (Ran Hum Mal Cha) made his first wish - "the blessed fixed +2 Magicbane", on T:3042 11:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Cav Hlf Mal Law), 391 points, T:1256, killed by a small mimic 11:16 <@riker> fuck mimics 11:16 <@Kyzrati> SLASHEM IS FREAKING AWESOME 11:16 <@riker> yes 11:16 <@riker> but slex is better 11:16 <@Kyzrati> Too. Many. Variants. 11:16 [hdf-us] [nd] firemonkey (Ran Hum Mal Cha), 3502 points, T:3091, killed by a chameleon imitating an Elvenking, while paralyzed by a monster 11:16 <@Kyzrati> It's like we see with bands, always people showing up asking which they should play, and getting like 5 different answers xD 11:17 <@Kyzrati> I've never even heard anyone mention "SLEX" before, only Slashem 11:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Cav Hum Mal Law), 239 points, T:255, killed by a water moccasin 11:18 <@Kyzrati> how is it better / what's the main differences? 11:18 <@riker> rip firemonkey 11:18 <@riker> kryzrati: really? I don't think I've ver heard anybody mention slashem as something people play 11:18 <@riker> but slex is slashem extended, it's like slashem but like 10x weirder 11:19 <@Kyzrati> oh, right, well then that's what I was playing 11:19 <@Kyzrati> that's the r/RoguelikeDev Feedback Friday for the week 11:19 <@Tone> Slashem is kind of dated 11:19 <@Kyzrati> https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikedev/comments/86i0rf/feedback_friday_35_slashem_extended/ 11:19 <@Kyzrati> That's where the quote came from :) 11:19 <@Kyzrati> I played "SLEX" for the first time 11:19 <@riker> LOL "thanks amy" 11:19 <@riker> i don't think that's ever been said in the context of slex before 11:20 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:9686 11:20 <@Kyzrati> I was posting about my run on Twitter and people seemed amused :) 11:21 <@Kyzrati> So yeah when I say I hear people mentioning slash'em, it's extended, though I'd never seen them use that acronym before, probably because generalist communities 11:22 @Kyzrati Yes, there was a time in history when Rogue and Larn were marginalized due to no recent new versions, and Crawl didn't exist yet, so roguelikes were generally categorized into "hacks" and "bands", variants of Hack/NetHack and Moria/Angband, respectively. 11:22 <@Tone> I would actually assume someone meant regular slashem if that's all they said 11:22 <@Kyzrati> most people in r/roguelikes refer to Extended 11:22 <@Pavel> How bad are water demons? 11:22 <@Kyzrati> but they type it all out 11:22 <@riker> not bad 11:22 <@riker> but pretty bad early game 11:23 <@Kyzrati> demons killed me with my own wand I dropped in a shop 11:23 And yes, Slash'EM is a very historically important variant, a lot of stuff from it has made it into other variants _including_ into vanilla. Thus far this is not really true of slex, to date. 11:23 <@Pavel> ;-; 11:23 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Cav Hum Mal Law) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:860 11:24 that roguelikedev thread about "let's all get together and bang out a roguelike" is making my optimism and realism feel very deeply conflicted 11:24 aosdict: Heh, is that thread still active? 11:24 I expected it to die after six posts. 11:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Cav Hum Mal Law), 2444 points, T:1307, killed by a gnome lord 11:24 <@Pavel> What are the odds of dipping for excal being successful? 11:24 @riker there was a time when there was only nethack and slashem. when people suggested a crazy feature, people said "slashem is -> this way, go play that instead of nethack" 11:24 <@Kyzrati> I didn't feel like it needed another voice pouring cold water on the idea, so I stayed away :P 11:25 I see a couple comments within the last twelve hours. 11:25 <@riker> pavel: 2/3 fountains worth is generally sufficient to get excal 11:25 aosdict: Let me know if they settle on a specific programming language to use. 11:25 <@riker> ouch 11:25 <@riker> lol 11:25 <@Pavel> God dammit I've dried up 5 fountains 11:26 @Kyzrati Right, I believe I said something vaguely positive about this being historically _the_ traditional dev model for most roguelikes, and left it at that. 11:26 There's no reason it can't work, but it would have to get _started_ first. 11:26 <@Kyzrati> yeah, the chances of it working out are just kinda slim 11:26 And what usually happens for that that works, historically, is one guy writes some code, then finds some other people who are interested in it... 11:27 <@Kyzrati> I mean it can still be a learning experience, so sure... 11:27 <@riker> !whereis pavel 11:27 @riker: [hdf-us] pavel is not currently playing on this server. 11:27 <@riker> !who 11:27 @riker: [hdf-us] rikersan [slex] MiseryMyra [fh] 3zigma [nd] firemonkey [nd] Kame [dnh] 3zigma [un] krm26 [xnh] 11:27 @riker: [hdf-eu] elenmirie [xnh] 11:27 /u/geldonyetich has me all sad that NetHack development is not, in fact, just a core devteam whose main job is to handle contributions and enforce standards for new things to add to the game. 11:27 @Kyzrati I don't think we reached the amount of variants that Angband had yet but yeah, it's been many more than around 2000 when there were only 2 major ones 11:30 aosdict: the ivory tower approach of development has its benefits. it's a bit problematic if it turns into glacier development, though. 11:30 [hdf-us] [nd] firemonkey (Ran Hum Mal Cha), 638 points, T:1391, killed by a jackal 11:31 I think I would say that the gap between 3.4.3 and 3.6.0 is definitely an instance of such a problem. 11:32 bhaak: Probably no other piece of code every written has reached the point of having as many variants as moria/angband. 11:33 Unless you count textbook examples like Hello, World. 11:33 I mean, there are other issues I have that aren't specific to ivory tower/cathedral-style development, such as the historic tight-lippedness (but this has gotten much better since you and ais are around to talk to community members and with the github repository) 11:34 glacial development can happen with the bazaar model too, albeit, only if no community members are willing to step up and contribute. 11:35 Err, willing _and able_. 11:35 Honestly, it's possible that what the NetHack Dev team needs more than anything else right now is a competent release manager. 11:36 Somebody who can go, "Ok, we are branching and feature-freezing the branch next month, so if you've got disruptive or feature work that just has to make next release, get it in." 11:36 And then carry it through to release. 11:36 I also attribute a lot of the glaciation to the fact that there are evidently no guidelines for internal devteam discussion so it's hard to actually discuss stuff 11:37 Ah. 11:37 I think they get a lot of warnocking. 11:37 what does that mean? 11:37 Nobody answered. Does that mean they think it's fine? They hate it? They're too busy to read it? 11:38 bhaak: Seriously, you all should sit down and document some rules like, if a member wants to add a new feature or prep for release or whatever, everyone else either should speak up within X time or they're assumed to have agreed. 11:39 It's vaguely possible they are also getting conservatism-by-proxy ("Well, _I_ wouldn't mind that, but I think _some_ people wouldn't want us to do it...") 11:40 aosdict: put "Speak now or forever hold your peace!" in your signature? 11:41 I also think (probably) a lot of internal discussions could be held in a public space. 11:42 It used to be, at the beginning, held on usenet. 11:42 At least some of it. 11:42 But usenet is effectively just about dead now. 11:43 If, say, paxed wants to add a feature, why should he only email the other devteam members? Couldn't we have a mailing list for stuff like this that all interested parties could subscribe to? 11:43 Well, he can bounce ideas off whoever he wants on IRC. 11:43 (That is similar to Usenet, but has the advantage of remaining used by a lot of open source groups.) 11:43 Not sure what mechanisms the non-IRC people have in place though. 11:43 I mean, they have some email contacts, I gather. 11:43 Dunno how many. 11:44 Sure, mailing lists are possible to keep alive still. 11:44 Doesn't require cooperating from the rest of the internet, you just need a mail server. 11:44 Although, running a mail server is increasingly painful, because there are so many _wonky_ mail servers out there (*cough* badly administered Exchange *cough*) that have really weird and _undocumented_ requirements. 11:45 Unless, of course, you don't care about random people being able to exchange mail with it. 11:45 Yeah, IRC works here, but it's a crapshoot as to whether a given interested party will actually see and respond to it in time. 11:45 In which case it's easy. 11:45 aosdict: Sure. 11:45 IRC is for informal discussion with whoever happens to be on at the moment. 11:47 !who 11:47 FIQ: [hdf-us] rikersan [slex] MiseryMyra [fh] Kame [dnh] 3zigma [un] 11:47 FIQ: [hdf-eu] elenmirie [xnh] 11:47 Since the devteam already use a mailing list, it seems like the most logical option for discussions they wouldn't mind sharing with the public. 11:48 But according to what ais has said, yes, it does seem like the conservatism-by-proxy you mention is a serious issue. 11:48 Sure, you have your internal one plus a public one (called something like nethack-discussion or so). 11:58 <@mtf> why hello beholder 11:58 @mtf: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-03-23 02:52 EDT: Marija certainly didn't cause that bones level; she was that player's original pet. Well, unless she was conflicted or turned on him. But he may well have died of something else. 11:58 <@mtf> Larien: oh you think so? I figured that was the creature that killed that player since it was easily the strongest in that level 11:59 <@riker> yeah some roles have super strong pets tho 11:59 <@riker> I think ysexymates get marija? 12:00 <@mtf> oh gotcha 12:00 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:00 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:11 bhaak: any interest in proposing a publicly-subscribable mailing list, on which devteam members can discuss non-secret things and get public comments, to the devteam? 12:12 @mtf Larien isn't here 12:12 you can !tell 12:17 hmm what's a good word that encapsulates the concept of "how hard a trap is to find" 12:21 obscurity, perhaps 12:30 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) was given their Quest, on T:14570 12:31 [hdf-us] [slex] rikersan (Sco Ang Mal Cha) killed Moldoux, the Defenceless Mold, on T:1090 12:31 [hdf-us] [slex] rikersan (Sco Ang Mal Cha), 4714 points, T:1091, killed by a monster (great wyrm of power) 12:31 <@riker> ffs I forgot about moldoux 12:31 <@riker> I assumed it was a purple stalk or smth 12:33 <@mtf> FIQ: Dammit, why do people leave IRC if it doesn't deliver messages when you're offline 12:33 <@mtf> and people wonder why I love discord 😛 12:35 because people don't know that it doesn't deliver messages when you're offline because they've been spoiled by discord 12:35 You generally leave IRC because you haven't got a bouncing service or equivalent for when you close your laptop or turn off your phone. 12:36 [hdf-us] [xnh] Pavel (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1623 points, T:4566, killed by a raven 12:36 <@mtf> ah yes, much like the ATM spoils me since I no longer have to go to the bank to withdraw money 12:36 * raisse is a dinosaur (and proud of it) 12:36 <@mtf> hehe 12:40 Are there any searchable features I'm forgetting? Traps, secret doors and passages, hidden monsters. 12:43 <@mtf> everything in FH! 😛 12:43 YANI: for variants that implement terrain recoloring when hallucinating, don't select the color randomly per feature, use perlin noise or similar to get areas of the same color 12:43 @mtf what else in fh is searchable 12:44 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 12:44 <@mtf> literally everything 12:44 <@mtf> ctrl-f 12:44 <@mtf> so items, corpses, etc 12:45 No, I mean stuff that says "You find a foo." when using the s command 12:45 <@mtf> ohhhhh 12:45 <@mtf> different kind of search 12:45 <@mtf> haha 12:45 <@mtf> I think the list you mentioned is it then 13:12 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) performed the invocation, on T:51519 13:15 <@mtf> miserymyra: go go go! try not to leave a horrible bones file for me again 13:17 I'll try! 13:18 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 13:21 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed +2 jumping boots", on T:51674 13:21 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed Orcus, on T:46506 13:22 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:22 -!- elenmirie_ is now known as elenmirie 13:22 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) averted death, on T:51676 13:23 <@mtf> ohhhh baby 13:23 <@mtf> MiseryMyra: close call? 13:24 Just in a kind of bad situation: http://puu.sh/zNYhA/12b9dfeb98.png 13:26 so lets try out this xnethack that people are talking about 13:26 can valks still get exca by dipping? 13:26 at xl 5? 13:26 yes 13:26 ok good 13:26 vanilla rules 13:26 thats all i need to know 13:27 heh 13:28 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) averted death, on T:51687 13:28 aosdict: there is a typo in the default rcfile: 'statushitlites is a popular option' 13:29 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) averted death, on T:51707 13:30 I'm not sure how to deal with this mass of monsters, to be honest 13:30 <@mtf> MiseryMyra: got any conflict? 13:30 <@mtf> where are you exactly 13:30 <@mtf> could use death / tele wands to clear it out 13:30 Yeah, I've had it on the whole time 13:30 <@mtf> ah 13:31 I'm in Moloch's Sanctum 13:31 <@mtf> gotcha 13:31 <@mtf> have any cursed potions of gain level? 13:31 <@mtf> or do you not have the ammy yet 13:31 <@mtf> if not, pull back to a hallway 13:31 <@mtf> and kill em one by one 13:31 I don't have it yet 13:32 <@mtf> the priests tend to spam CM, so I like to stay out of the middle until they are all dead 13:33 <@Winsalot> FIQ, did you nerf corrosionproofing? 13:33 <@mtf> he did not 13:33 <@Winsalot> I read enchant weapon while confused and nothing changed 13:33 <@mtf> what are you erosionproofing? 13:34 I guess I'm pulling back 13:34 <@Winsalot> ery rusty corroded +2 battleaxe 13:34 <@mtf> @Winsalot and you were wielding it? and the scroll was uncursed? 13:35 Maybe it isn't rknown? 13:35 <@mtf> MiseryMyra: yea that's a good plan, once the priests are dead you'll have a lot less problems... and just keep deathing the wizard, hopefully he won't show up much 13:35 <@Winsalot> Oh, I haven't BUC tested the scroll actually 13:35 <@Winsalot> my bad 13:36 <@mtf> from what I can tell, a cursed scroll while confused will actually REMOVE erosionproofing 13:36 <@mtf> lol 13:36 stenno: vanilla rules, except where https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/XNetHack specifies otherwise (but yes, excal dipping is the same) 13:37 [hdf-us] [fh] i don't know (rikerw) (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 35699 points, T:2026, killed by a soldier ant 13:39 uh, all the symbols have changed 13:39 * aosdict estimates that a small fraction of the symbols have changed 13:39 lol 13:39 fair enough i guess 13:40 <@mtf> all the colors have changed tho 13:40 man there are a lot of newts here 13:40 not that i would complain, free xp 13:40 <@riker> and pw 13:40 Yeah, that's weird. I didn't _intend_ for lots of newts, but that's what happened. 13:40 <@riker> what happened 13:41 apparently there are now lots of newts in xnh. 13:41 changing order of monsters in monst.c can have hilarious consequences 13:41 <@mtf> if (pName == "stenno") { genNewt(rand(1000)); } 13:41 lol 13:42 thankfully I'm not changing the order of dragons 13:42 wow you play fast 13:42 <@riker> mtf? 13:42 <@riker> or stenno 13:43 stenno 13:43 stenno: if i recall, xnh spawns more monsters initially upon level creation, but the respawn rate afterwards is less 13:43 yes, that is where all the newts are coming from 13:43 missed the downstairs somehow 13:43 mines downstairs 13:43 aosdict: stenno drinks redbull infused espresso 13:44 but my momentum is gone now 13:44 as i can't find mines downstairs lol 13:44 oh i see another one 13:44 * K2 pours stenno another espresso 13:44 <@mtf> @riker what did I do 13:45 <@mtf> xnh spawns more monsters initially upon level creation, but the respawn rate afterwards is less hmm... dont' know how I feel about that. Sounds like sacrificing just became even more of a pain in the ass 13:45 bones maybe? 13:46 Sacrificing needs an overhaul anyway. 13:46 mtf: you really need a source of creating monsters to sac effectively 13:46 @mtf the existence of altar farming (and the fact that monsters can respawn fast enough for it to work) is a huge balance problem 13:46 in xnh 13:47 <@mtf> aos: how is that a problem? What's the difference between that and a wand of create monster? 13:47 of course 13:47 monkeytown 13:47 <@mtf> AFAIK using altar's is a major strategical point of the game 13:47 <@riker> oh god you terrified me aosdict 13:47 oh no 13:47 aosdict: How do you deal with 3333s and such? 13:47 stenno: me too! :) 13:47 <@riker> with bold b for acid blobs 13:47 <@riker> I thought that was a shoggoth o-o 13:47 @mtf a wand of create monster runs out. 13:47 its not monkeytown i think 13:47 Normal-mechanism monster spawning doesn't. 13:47 its just a town with monkeys 13:47 <@mtf> but in vanilla it has like a billion charges 13:47 <@mtf> so it might as well not 13:47 Aren't there actually 2 minetowns that have monkeys? 13:47 unless the layout changed 13:47 I got monkeytown with all possible shops 13:47 which isn't so bad 13:47 @riker giant shoggoth is Slash'EM only. 13:48 but the version without the sink 13:48 uh oh a gnomish wizard 13:48 Unless d imported it from Slash'EM, which is not impossible. 13:48 imma be scared 13:48 <@mtf> I don't think changes to make sacrificing harder are necessarily good... It's already a major pain in the ass compared to other roguelikes I've played 13:48 hmm, seems like not. 13:48 <@mtf> Hell I've been trying to get FIQ to implement live monster saccing like ADOM has 😛 13:48 @mtf I think the problem is that you're sacrificing an infinitely renewable resource. You should be required to sacrifice some finite resource. 13:49 ^ 13:49 This is why altar _farming_ is possible. 13:49 <@mtf> I don't really see what the problem is with that? altar artifacts don't instantly win you the game 13:49 +5 pair of iron boots 13:49 <@mtf> you generally only want one, so farming isn't even really that good 13:49 <@mtf> and the more arti's you get, the less likely are you to get more 13:49 @mtf there are other balance problems with altar farming not limited to artifacts 13:49 woop 13:49 and ammy of reflection 13:49 things are going well 13:50 <@mtf> such as? giving intrinsics? 13:50 Actually, I would be ok with making your first sacrifice always get you an artifact (if you are in good standing, etc. other caveats apply as relevant). 13:50 <@mtf> cause that's not so bad either 13:50 infinite prayer boons (so infinite spellbooks), infinite food, maxed luck quite early in the game 13:50 heck, crowning quite early in the game 13:50 When I think altar farming, I think of players who go, "there is one specific best artifact I can get and I am going to camp here and sacrifice UNTIL I GET IT." 13:50 aosdict: take lorimers approach to altar farming - your xp level dictates the odds of you getting an artifact 13:51 K2: wasn't that a massively unpopular change 13:51 otherwise you get just a normal piece of gear 13:51 <@Winsalot> How do I reach the luckstone that is on teleport trap? 13:51 a fooproofed +5 piece of gear 13:51 K2: have you looked at my religion overhaul etherpad? 13:51 no i havent 13:51 <@mtf> crowning is notoriously bad, infinite prayer boons isn't that great (you can get all the rewards elsewhere by just waiting around for monsters to spawn), infinite food barely matters, and maxed luck is something that most characters will acquire quickly anyway 13:51 Which, I mean, we could probably solve that kind of farming by making your diety get angry and smite you if you don't use the gift(s)... 13:51 But that would be mean. 13:51 and yes any change will be unpopular with somebody 13:51 @mtf Infinite food breaks the game in a whole other bunch of ways. 13:52 but as a lower lvl character saccing, getting those pieces of normal buffed gear was actually a good thing 13:52 <@mtf> how so? If anything it just makes the game less tedious 13:52 <@mtf> and once you hit ludios / castle you have infinite food anyway 13:52 'you swap places with the watchman' 13:52 nice 13:52 For example, any timed negative effect doesn't matter once you have infinite food. 13:52 nice patch idea: your deity gives you a choice of gifts when they're going to give you something 13:52 hmm a stone in a tool shop 13:52 Another option, which I am deeply tempted to do, is to make sacrificing only ever get you *one* artifact, and then no more. 13:52 anyways, something worth having a look at aosdict if you get a chance 13:52 stenno: that will be a touchstone prob 13:53 <@mtf> aos: I fail to see how infinite food stops sliming, stoning, or other timed negative effects 😛 13:53 lormier was on the right track with some of his tweaks 13:53 yeah it is 13:53 <@mtf> jona: that sounds fair to me, cuts down on the tedium 13:53 <@mtf> and makes for more diverse games 13:53 *timed negative effect that doesn't kill you 13:53 blindness, hallu etc 13:54 <@mtf> ok, like what? confusion? blindness? hallu? so the goal is to make those worse for the player by limiting their food supply? 13:54 man 13:54 Also, infinite food means that you effectively have infinite Pw for non-combat spells, since you have an arbitrary amount of time in which to cast them 13:54 getting 'interesting' when trying to dip exca into the oracle fountains 13:54 oh nm 13:54 just muscle memory 13:54 gotta do , 13:55 exca get 13:55 lol 13:55 <@mtf> aos: I think that's the best point you've made so far, and it's true, infinite food does make casting spells possible for non-casters 13:55 K2 and anyone else interested: religion pad is here: https://etherpad.net/p/NetHack_Religion%2C_Alignment%2C_and_Luck. Nothing concrete yet, just a collection of ideas. 13:55 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 13:55 <@mtf> but didn't you implement that change to make failure rate change Pw cost? 13:55 Yes. 13:55 nice 13:56 <@mtf> so any spell that needs to be cast will always work first time if they have the mana 13:56 * K2 skims the initial document 13:56 <@mtf> therefore, spamming spells and eating tons of food just won't happen really 13:57 However, I don't mean spamming spells (as in failing them) necessarily - for instance you can cast unskilled remove curse at a high Pw penalty, let it build back up again, repeat 13:57 <@mtf> I guess what I"m getting at is that using altars is tedious enough as it is, and if the goal was to reduce how often you can use altars for nice things, there are probably other ways to go about that rather than reducing monster spawns 13:57 aosdict: stepping into adjacent pits when you're already in a pit shouldn't ask for confirmation 13:57 <@mtf> cause that also means every level, once cleared, is basically safe 13:58 I don't get what people's problem with that is. 13:58 You killed everything on a level, monsters shouldn't be repopulating it just as fast. 13:59 <@mtf> and why not? 😛 (btw I hope you know I"m not attacking your changes, I'm playing devil's advocate to see your reasoning) 13:59 <@mtf> seems to me that this change will make every floor easier in the long run, since when you clear one it will basically be "complete" 13:59 Another issue with infinite food is that it enables infinite prayers, which I guess is those two systems enabling each other 14:00 <@mtf> right 14:00 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) averted death, on T:53259 14:00 <@mtf> you know... It sounds a lot like you want ADOM's piety system 😛 Prayer's can only be made whlil.e you have piety, and piety can only be gained by sacrificing... therefore both are a finite resource (dicated by the amount of food you have to continue sacrificing, which isn't much in the early game) 14:01 Perhaps I should revert the portion of that change that reduces the spawn rate when u.uevent.demigod is set. 14:01 <@mtf> what is that event? 14:01 killed the Wizard or did the invocatio 14:02 <@mtf> oh gotcha 14:02 <@mtf> well I'd def agree with that 14:02 <@mtf> otherwise the climb will be easier 14:02 @mtf if you haven't checked out that etherpad yet, you should (and also maybe add ADOM piety as a possible option) 14:02 <@mtf> I did look over most of it before, didn't have time to add anything and kind forgot about it 14:02 <@mtf> I should look again! 14:02 [hdf-us] [nd] redshirt (Rog Orc Mal Cha) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:4742 14:03 <@mtf> ^ oops, lel 14:03 I mean, I don't really like Un-style spawning lots of monsters specifically in your path on the ascension run, because they're really just so much chaff at that point. 14:03 <@mtf> yes but the chaff slows you down, and allows the wiz more chances to spawn on you 14:03 right, but that is Not Fun 14:03 <@mtf> I mean, you could replace the chaff with nasties 14:03 un asc run is really cool 14:03 <@mtf> but that sounds... hard 14:04 <@mtf> and I dunno... slaying hordes of monsters on my way back up is pretty damn fun 14:04 aosdict: mailing lists are old tech as well. I don't know what nowadays would be right non-chat option. Reddit feels so much worse than usenet but it's the best option to my knowledge currently. 14:04 <@mtf> def gives the "demigod" feeling 14:04 @mtf That wouldn't work in NetHack, because any attempt to make food a finite resource in NetHack is doomed. 14:04 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed +2 grayswandir", on T:53262 14:04 stealth still OP in xnethack lol 14:04 bhaak: I can't see most devteam members using reddit, whereas I can see them using a mailing list. 14:04 <@mtf> jona: I agree, but it would still work because food is fairly tight in the early game till you reach soko 14:05 aosdict: yes but I can't see using most normal users using a mailing list today 14:05 <@mtf> also, prayers wouldn't regen over time... once you run out of piety, you're out 14:05 jonadab: I just haven't finished my proposal to address this yet. 14:05 bhaak: Google Docs ? 14:05 * jonadab ducks 14:05 <@mtf> so you could build it up at an altar, but it would decay afterwards (from use and from time passing) 14:05 ok break time 14:05 that was really smooth so far 14:05 the only thing missing is poison res 14:06 <@mtf> bhaak: Reddit is definitely the best platform for communicating with a wide audience IMO 14:06 stenno: note that there is no poison instadeath 14:06 oh.. 14:06 <@mtf> even if the DT just posted simple updates as threads every once in a while, it would be amazing 14:06 I flat out removed it 14:06 then i am even more fine i guess! 14:06 @mtf What about Blogger? 14:06 especially once i find unihorn 14:06 <@mtf> Do people still use that website? 😛 14:06 jonadab: a collaborative writing environment is not the same as a discussion plattform but it would be an interesting approach for drafting design documents :) 14:06 I mean, you can still take Str damage and extra HP damage from poison. Just no "deadly..." 14:06 was stat regain removed already? 14:06 <@mtf> can't remember the last time I read somebodies blog 14:06 right 14:06 unihorn stat regain 14:06 stenno: yes 14:07 good to know 14:07 better not dilute those !oRA 14:07 right 14:07 what do you think about making fighting noisy like in un? 14:07 It's on my todo list. 14:07 <@mtf> Thing is, you can get a lot more near-real-time conversation on a reddit post than you can on a mailing list or a google doc 14:07 i mean my stealthed ass just walked through this soko zoo 14:07 <@mtf> or even in a forum 14:07 <@mtf> plus the voting system lets you filter the chaff out 14:07 @mtf If you want realtime, you want IRC. 14:08 <@mtf> IRC messages disappear 14:08 <@mtf> so no, you don't 14:08 Only if you don't publicly log. 14:08 IRC doesn't have threading either. 14:08 Which you can do, it just has to go in the /topic 14:08 <@mtf> no standard user is going to go look at IRC logs 14:08 <@mtf> sorry 😛 14:08 Most chat systems don't, I think Slack tried to add it and failed 14:08 Tjat 14:08 No standard user is going to look at mailing list archives either. 14:08 <@mtf> aos: slack threading is great? 14:08 <@mtf> jona: exactly my point 14:08 <@mtf> that's why reddit is a great platform for something like this 14:09 @mtf or old reddit threads. 14:09 Same deal.l 14:09 <@mtf> plus r/nethack already exists 14:09 <@mtf> PLENTY of people look at old reddit threads 14:09 And with old reddit threads, you can't even conveniently grep them. 14:09 <@mtf> you kidding? 14:09 <@mtf> hell I search out stuff in /r/nethack and /r/roguelikes all the time 14:09 <@mtf> (granted, google search is better than reddit search for this, but whatever) 14:09 @mtf I agree but I'm not entirely happy about that. usenet threads were more persistent than reddit threads. 14:09 doesn't reddit search have a reputation for being terrible 14:09 And when reddit inevitably goes belly-up in a few years because it's not the hot new thing anymore, all your data are lost. 14:10 <@mtf> bhaak: I can totally see that 14:10 bhaak: usenet threads weren't persistent *at all* until Deja News came along. 14:10 And they were pretty spotty at first. 14:10 <@mtf> jona: Well if we're going that route, why do anything when eventually all will succumb to the heat death of the universe? 14:10 I mean, you could archive things locally if you wanted. 14:10 @mtf you could reply after a year in a thread and everybody could chime in again. try that with a reddit thread that is even only a few weeks old :-( 14:11 @mtf There's a huge difference between something that's gonna happen in a couple of years, and something that will not happen in the lifetime of anyone you know. 14:11 <@mtf> you can simply make a new thread w/ a link to the old thread... not really an issue IMO 14:11 <@mtf> jona: but you don't know that's gonna happen 😛 you are postulating 14:11 bhaak: Oh, you meant persistent as in _revivable_. 14:11 Yes, usenet threads were easily revived, that is true. 14:12 @mtf I am extrapolating based on a well-established pattern. 14:12 <@mtf> personally I think letting threads "die" over time isn't a bad idea anyway, since jumping into a 5y old conversation is always janky anyway 14:12 reddit is a propretiary discussion forum of exactly the same type I've seen thirty of come and go. 14:12 <@mtf> you've never seen one as big as reddit 14:12 @mtf yes that's a workaround but when you look at a group in archive mode (either with your local newsserver or deja news/google groups) those message are all together (mostly, some broken newsreader software tended to break threads) 14:12 Yes, threading was one of the things usenet did really well. 14:13 @mtf "you've never seen one as big as reddit" what do you mean? 14:13 <@mtf> bhaak: This is true... another solution to that is to "tag" posts, and have a filter on the sidebar that lets you search for only posts with that tag 14:13 Usually. Until bad newsereaders that mishandled the headers came along. 14:13 <@mtf> plenty of subreddit's do that 14:13 Thank you, Microsoft. 14:13 oh wow, Kyzrati was actually here in the channel while I was gone? :) 14:13 <@mtf> reddit is the most mainstream chat platform ever 14:13 <@mtf> and one of the biggest 14:13 <@mtf> saying reddit will die is a lot like saying facebook will die... It will be very hard for these giants to fall 14:13 It's not bigger as a percentage of internet users overall than any of a number of others. 14:13 Granted, the internet has more total users now. 14:14 @mtf depends on how you see it. when usenet ruled, everybody who was on the net was on usenet or they didn't take part in online discussions :-) 14:14 So the absolute numbers are larger. 14:14 I would say it's only the biggest in terms of aggregating a bunch of discrete forums. 14:14 <@mtf> bhaak: right, but the internet was much smaller then 14:14 <@mtf> and was not as well-adopted by the masses 14:14 True. 14:14 you can only read so much per day :) 14:14 There's nothing common to all reddit users except that they use reddit. 14:14 github 14:14 <@mtf> my argument is that when it comes to reach the most amount of people in the general public, reddit is one of the best platforms 14:15 aosdict: that wasn't different back then to usenet users 14:15 <@mtf> reddit regularly makes the news, and is involved in world politics as well 14:15 <@mtf> so there is literally way more exposure there compared to other systems of chat, even during their heyday 14:15 @mtf I agree but we could have better technology. 14:15 @mtf I know zero people IRL who use reddit. 14:16 And about six people who *don't* use Facebook. 14:16 <@mtf> jona: I meet random people in the street who turn out to be redditors 14:16 <@mtf> so I dunno what to tell you 😛 14:16 You wanna argue the Dev Team should do their discussions on Facebook? 14:16 @mtf Gotta say, I do think that reddit will probably eventually fail in favor of some (more open or more distributed) system 14:16 I wouldn't call /r/the_donald as an argument FOR reddit :-D 14:16 <@mtf> granted, reddit is much bigger in america 14:16 Because no. 14:16 Not necessarily as fast as jonadab does, but eventually. 14:16 <@mtf> facebook is a terrible platform for conveying information 14:16 <@mtf> have to weigh that in your consideration as well 14:16 Granted. 14:17 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) averted death, on T:53830 14:17 Facebook is a terrible platform for _everything_. 14:17 <@mtf> aos: all good things come to an end 😛 I'm not going to discount reddit just because it might fail in the future 14:17 <@mtf> the same way I'm not going to discount discord because IRC exists 😛 14:18 I'm looking mainly at IRC and email - open communication protocols for the most part, still kicking around as platforms 14:18 oh, and decentralized, that's important. 14:18 ^ 14:18 Reddit's "communication protocol" is open but the whole system is centralized. 14:18 A single company can close down, and nobody will care. 14:18 <@mtf> those characteristics are great, but inconsequential if nobody reads them 14:18 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) averted death, on T:53875 14:19 @mtf If you're trying to do something as long-lasting as NetHack, both matter. 14:19 <@mtf> I disagree 14:19 And between the two, I would argue that the long-term viability matters more. 14:19 <@mtf> brogue moved to /r/brogueforum because their website went down 14:19 jonadab: git is probably on that list as well 14:19 <@mtf> and the game has been a lot better off because of it 14:19 Yes, because it was a janky hosted-on-a-minor-forum-hosting-site thing. 14:19 <@mtf> pretty sure nethack is still hosted on a super janky website 😛 14:20 Heh. 14:20 Its communications infrastructure can all trivially migrate to a different host, though. 14:21 I say "trivially" meaning "trivially, if the Dev Team could agree on anything", which granted is a significant qualifier these days. 14:21 <@mtf> To be perfectly honest (and not to discount the dev team here), I don't think nethack dev communication has anywhere to go but up. The currently used platforms are obviously not good enough, because nobody hears from them for years 14:21 Oh, that's unrelated. 14:21 <@mtf> I'm less worried about "decentralization" and "continuity" than I am about "never hearing about nethack's development" 14:22 That's a deliberate "we don't talk about unfinished things" policy that has gotten entirely out of hand. 14:22 Nothing at all to do with the technology. 14:22 That's purely a social issue. 14:22 <@mtf> ok, but I have the perfect example 14:22 <@mtf> I was interested in nethack before 3.6 was released 14:22 <@mtf> do you know how long it took me to hear about 3.6 being released? 14:22 <@mtf> over a week 14:22 <@mtf> and do you know where I read about it? 14:22 <@mtf> /r/nethack 14:22 <@mtf> I would have considered myself the general public in that situation 14:23 I heard about it a couple days after from one of the only other nethack players I know personally 14:23 I believe I heard about it within a few hours. 14:23 On IRC of course. 14:23 <@mtf> It'd be very difficult to argue that the flow of information is faster on other platforms than reddit 😛 14:23 <@mtf> to the masses*, that is 14:24 Well, there's Twitter. 14:24 But I'm not going to advocate that, either. 14:24 @mtf that is a good point. Absolutely no one was specifically looking on nethack.org for whether there was a new version out, without having a clue. 14:24 <@mtf> twitter is great for announcement-type stuff, but terrible for any discourse 14:24 And anyway, with stuff like that (announcements), you don't put them in just one place, so this whole discussion is moot for that. 14:24 <@mtf> aos: yea exactly, who's going to check the website religiously when nethack takes years to update 14:25 jonadab: If you want to disseminate information to the "masses", you do have to use a platform that the masses are in fact paying attention to. 14:25 You can put your release announcement on rgrn and reddit and freenode and Facebook and Twitter and nethack.org and wherever else you want. Google+ if anyone is using htat. 14:25 <@mtf> jona: It's not moot.. my point is that reddit can handle all of these types of communication... announcements, feature discussion, etc 14:26 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:27 One of the things I don't particularly like about Reddit for feature discussion is that you can make a feature discussion-y post, it doesn't get any attention for a few hours, and in those few hours it gets buried under several YAAP, YASD, "What should I wish for", etc posts, so nobody sees it. 14:27 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed +2 cloak of displacement", on T:54268 14:27 And if you tried to split into /r/nethackdev or whatever, there wouldn't be a critical mass of people who visited it. 14:27 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed figurine of an archon", on T:54270 14:27 <@mtf> aos: with the proper flair, it's very possible to make your posts stick out. Also, I feel like /r/nethack mods don't take advantage of sticky threads nearly as much as they should 14:28 <@mtf> /r/roguelikedev has tons of viewers, so that'd probably be a good platform as well 14:28 but almost no player will go to /r/rld 14:28 roguelikedev that is 14:29 <@mtf> not true... you think the dev's themselves aren't players? 😛 14:29 Sort of like how we have several nethack channels on IRC, and ##nethack-variants is ostensibly the dev discussion one, but I collect YANIs from many more channels than that. 14:29 roguelikedev is actively hostile to anything that runs in a terminal or on *nix. 14:29 <@mtf> I'd argue that no roguelike dev isn't a player 14:29 so you will probably only get feedback from other devs 14:29 eh 14:29 still different 14:29 I'm not a player. I'm spending too much time developing xnh and design proposals. 14:29 Heh. 14:30 <@mtf> you're right, but is different bad? That gives you multiple viewpoints from multiple types of people 14:30 <@mtf> that sounds like exactly what feature discussion would want 14:30 Honestly, no, I don't want to turn NetHack into something roguelikedev would really like. 14:30 Because then I would hate it. 14:31 I mean, ok, yes, I did get some useful feedback from my Feedback Friday there. 14:31 <@mtf> well now you're just sounding crotchety 😛 Just because /r/rld is focused on new technology and great design practices doesn't mean they hate nethack, or unix 14:31 Oh, I will gladly admit to being a crotchety curmudgeon. 14:31 My boss calls me a luddite. 14:31 jonadab: aren't you not even 50 yet 14:31 <@mtf> haha 14:32 aosdict: Indeed. 14:32 at some point i can consider myself one of the older nethack people too 14:32 <@mtf> I need to come up with a slogan 14:32 but not yet 14:32 too soon 14:32 <@mtf> "Make Nethack Dev Progressive Again!" 14:33 aosdict: My college philosophy prof told me I as "too young to be so cynical". 14:33 vanilla dev has been progressed quite significantly after the leak 14:33 @mtf I mean, how much is roguelikedev focused on game design stuff, rather than technology? 14:33 <@mtf> ... a LOT? 14:33 <@mtf> like, a ridiculous amount? 14:34 <@mtf> check out every FAQ_FRIDAY: https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikedev/wiki/faq_friday 14:34 Because from what jonadab says, my impression is that they'd go "lol nethack is written in C" when you try to talk something serious 14:34 and as i have been instrumental in distributing the leak to the masses, i hereby credit myself with modernizing vanilla development 14:34 (j/k) 14:34 aosdict: It's not about being written in C. It's more about not having an Entity Component System or using libtcod. 14:34 <@mtf> aos: I'd wager that's pretty far from the truth 14:34 Didn't even follow the tutorial. 14:35 was a fun time tho 14:35 <@mtf> I think /r/rld is more critical of nethack's design decisions rather than how it was developed 14:35 <@mtf> and that is understandable 14:35 Also, NetHack isn't open-world, doesn't have cool graphics, etc. 14:35 <@mtf> nethack has some really weird design decisions 14:35 such as? apart from UI stuff? 14:36 <@mtf> ... lol there are so many examples 14:36 @mtf NetHack does have some weird design decisions; we talk about them here. I've never seen them mentioned on /r/roguelikedev. 14:36 amnesia 14:36 <@mtf> how about the zaniness of nethack? like, why are sinks in the game 14:36 Eh, rld doesn't mind zaniness. 14:37 They like, umm, what was that one with Rogue in its name that is not roguelike at all but has a lot of ... I forget which one it is now. 14:37 @Kyzrati seemed to appreciate the zaniness of slex. 14:37 Rogue something. 14:37 Which is like every other game. 14:37 <@mtf> aos: I found that really interesting, because @Kyzrati hates nethack as far as I know 14:37 <@mtf> because it takes the exact opposite approach of cogmind 14:38 <@mtf> opaqueness vs complete transparency, for example 14:38 @mtf Actually, Kyzrati doesn't seem to have the NetHack hate. 14:38 Just never played it until recently. 14:38 <@mtf> oh I think he does... we've talked about it before 14:38 But he reacted positively to Fourk. 14:38 And keeps saying he wants to try FH. 14:38 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the Master of Thieves, on T:20438 14:39 <@mtf> Kyzrati loves development, and helping out other devs 14:39 who is kyzrati? 14:39 <@mtf> so I guarantee you he finds this new stuff fascinating 14:39 Cogmind 14:39 ah 14:39 <@mtf> stenno: also one of our other mods 14:39 i see 14:40 <@mtf> He might be the most influential dev / person in the roguelike world right now 14:40 At least half of his influence comes from running FAQ Fridays, I think. 14:40 i wanted to play cogmind at some point 14:40 <@mtf> you mean running all of /r/roguelikedev and /r/roguelikes ? 14:40 it looks really cool 14:41 <@mtf> not to mention the dev blogs he puts out on cogmind are ridiculously comprehensive 14:41 <@mtf> and cogmind is the most technologically advanced roguelike I can think of 14:41 <@mtf> stenno: I can tell you right now that cogmind is one of the best roguelikes out there, period 14:42 <@mtf> If it's not showing, I have huge admiration for Kyzrati and the things he's accomplished 😛 14:42 Yeah, but he likes slex, apparently. 14:42 So not sure what to think about that. 14:43 so far only nethack has given me what i like about roguelikes 14:43 not interested in a fighter-style DCSS hack'n'slay 14:43 nor one with _some_ realtime elements 14:44 I don't think cogmind is DCSS-like, from anything I've read about it. 14:44 <@mtf> hell 14:44 <@mtf> I'm kind of enjoying slex 14:44 <@mtf> I also found that very strange 14:44 <@mtf> I thought I'd hate it 14:44 <@mtf> jona: cogmind is nothing like DCSS, thank god 14:44 Yeah, I didn't get the impression it was. 14:44 <@mtf> stenno: have you played ADOM? that's my fav roguelike, hacklikes ftw 14:45 i played angband and dcss 14:45 Kyzrati's experiment with slex is useful data because it gives us an insight into a person playing slex without LarienTelrunya giving them tips every step of the way. 14:45 <@mtf> anband -> boring, dcss -> too arcade-like 14:45 I tried to get into ADOM, had a bit of trouble getting past the long early game, but I think the main reason I shelved it was because I had other priorities right then. 14:45 playing slex for the first time* 14:45 <@mtf> ADOM -> gigantic RPG with a huge world, tons of side quests, and a crazy amount of content 14:45 I'll get back to ADOM at some point, I think. 14:45 sounds good 14:46 <@mtf> ask FIQ what he thinks about ADOM if you want to hear it from someone less biased 14:46 I found Angband easier to get started in than most roguelikes. 14:46 But I only got to about level 10 or so. 14:46 what i like about nethack is that i can solve situations by creatively using the items i have 14:46 Still, I felt like I was starting to get the hang of some of it after just a few days. 14:46 <@mtf> angband just feels... pointless. Get loot to go further in the dungeon to get better loot to go further in the dungeon, repeat ad nauseum 14:46 Ah. 14:46 <@mtf> stenno: that's what I like about ADOM as well 14:46 <@mtf> when I say ADOM is a hacklike, I mean it 14:47 <@mtf> I like to say that nethack is a very focused game, while ADOM is very broad with lots of depth 14:47 ADOM is more similar to NetHack than it is to DCSS in some ways. Though the UI is a bit off. 14:47 hmm i see 14:47 <@mtf> ... in most ways, you mean? 14:47 <@mtf> ADOM is nothing like DCSS 14:47 Well, managing inventory in ADOM feels a bit DCSS-like to me. 14:47 Especially armor and weapons. 14:48 <@mtf> how so? 14:48 Not sure. Maybe I just didn't learn enough yet. 14:48 That was just the impression I had. 14:48 <@mtf> perhaps 😛 I find it very similar to how you would it in nethack 14:48 This was months ago, my memory is fuzzy now. 14:48 should mention that i am a (former) nethack power player and speedrunner with ~200 ascs under my belt for it and its variants 14:48 <@mtf> though it's more OK to put on cursed armor in the early game, b/c cursed stuff doesn't necessarily have bad enchantments 14:49 stenno: But can you do a 50-game streak in 3.6? 14:49 <@mtf> stenno: I tried nethack after beating ADOM a bunch, beat it on my third try 14:49 jonadab: no, not that 14:49 <@mtf> most of what I learned in ADOM is transferrable to nethack 14:49 <@mtf> and FIQ can vouch for the opposite 14:49 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 14:49 tariru doesn't count, he happens to be a perfect player 14:49 oh thats nice, mtf 14:49 @mtf Oh, I would say that NetHack is the easiest roguelike to win, of any that I have much experience with. 14:49 <@mtf> I agree jona 14:50 do i hilight you when i prepend @ to your name? 14:50 <@mtf> you do 14:50 kk 14:50 how does ADOM's opaqueness compare to nethack 14:50 <@mtf> It's similar... just like nethack, ADOM's wiki is comprehensive and your friend 14:50 i heard DCSS is really easy to win unspoiled 14:50 nethack is impossible to win unspoiled 14:50 <@mtf> winning ADOM unspoiled would be a feat 14:51 Yeah, but since it's closed source it doesn't have source references or *exact* mechanics or anything like that 14:51 right? 14:51 <@mtf> there are def things that will murder an unspoiled player 14:51 uh closed source ;_; 14:51 thats a letdown 14:51 <@mtf> like the banshee level... a banshee in the middle of the room will instakill all players that can hear her wail, so if you don't know to plug your ears with wax (or deafen yourself some other way), you will die 14:51 <@mtf> yes, ADOM is closed source, but for once I will argue that it's a good thing 14:51 <@mtf> by being closed source, ADOM has retained a lot of myster 14:51 <@mtf> mystery* 14:52 like, you can look up on the nethack wiki what your chance is of writing an unknown scroll 14:52 <@mtf> and unknown mechanics 14:52 but I would imagine that's not possible for ADOM 14:52 hm.. 14:52 <@mtf> well you will always succeed writing scrolls in ADOM... but it will drain your mana stat unless your a monk 14:52 @mtf meh, it's more of a "nobody's taken the effort to reverse engineer it yet" thing 14:52 <@mtf> not true 14:52 <@mtf> I've spent a lot of time in decompiled ADOM recently 😛 14:53 i'd guess that such reverse engineering and resulting spoilers would be frowned upon in the community 14:53 <@mtf> trying to figure out the secret behind the scroll of omnipotence, the artifact scroll that drops from the hardest boss in the game (and in the hardest area in the game) that currently we don't know how to read 14:53 <@mtf> yes and no... some people care, others don't 14:53 man i really don't know if i'd like playing a closed source rl 14:54 really gotta be honest 14:54 @mtf see that would just aggravate me 14:54 <@mtf> what's the difference? just read the wiki 14:54 <@mtf> it will have 99% of the info you'd get by source diving 14:54 for some reason source diving is part of the hobby for me 14:54 hm 14:54 I don't want a game that preserves its "mystery" by not showing its source 14:54 When the term "Roguelike" was coined, being open-source was one of the criteria listed that all the games being discussed had in common. 14:54 <@mtf> you can still do it, just use snowman to decompile the exe 😛 good luck reading the C without symbols though... 14:54 <@mtf> jona: and I think that's one of the dumbest criteria for a game ever 14:55 maybe it could be open-sourced and then renamed Ancient Domains of Source Diving... 14:55 aosdict: As I understand it, the reason ADOM isn't open-source is mostly because the developer is terrified someone might make a variant of it. 14:55 <@mtf> terrified? no, he knows that somebody (actually, lots of people) will make shitty variants 14:55 And then all the player base would be split and fragmented and the apocalypse would be upon us. 14:55 <@mtf> and I actually agree with him there 14:56 Though most of his fan encounters are positive, he stated that he received death threats when he declined to release the game's source code and on one occasion, keen fans stalked his house. 14:56 da fuck 14:56 jonadab: As I said, I personally define roguelikes strictly in terms of gameplay - it can be closed source and still be a roguelike 14:56 <@mtf> not saying that somebody couldn't do it better than him, but there will be plenty of bad "mods" to go with it 14:56 <@mtf> stenno: yea, exactly... people are crazy 14:56 aosdict: Now, yes. 14:56 aosdict: The term has changed over time. 14:56 But the definition the Steam people use is wrong. 14:56 <@mtf> If I was there at the berlin conference, I would have never stood for "open-source" being part of the definition 14:57 So very very wrong. 14:57 <@mtf> I cannot think of a dumber way to constrict a category 14:57 <@mtf> oh yea, steam "roguelike" tag is completely wrong lel 14:57 steam calls roguelites roguelikes 14:57 @mtf The Berlin conference was later, and that ws never intended to be a definition. 14:57 Well, I have read a lot of /r/roguelikes threads recently that are like "Foo isn't a true roguelike, it's a mere roguelite, at best" "Come on guys, can we not get into this argument again" "Foo is totally a true roguelike!!!1!1" 14:57 people consider FTL to be a roguelike on steam 14:57 <@mtf> well that's what it became, for better or worse 14:58 I'm talking about the usenet discussion when the reg.games.roguelike. hierarchy was created. Which is when the term "roguelike" was first suggested and adopted. 14:58 <@mtf> I've started using the "if it's not turn based, it's not a roguelike" arguement 14:58 <@mtf> since IMO that is the most important feature 14:58 turn-based, procedural dungeons, permadeath 14:58 <@mtf> giving the player an infinite amount of time to make every decision 14:58 <@mtf> that is a defining aspect of the genre 14:59 stenno: would say "procedural generation" - doesn't have to strictly be a dungeon 14:59 <@mtf> anyway 14:59 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed Medusa, on T:21609 14:59 If I'm going to be interested in it, it must be turn-based, procedrually generated, run in a terminal (at least optionally), feature exploration and discovery as major elements, have some kind of *meaningful* item identification, ... 14:59 yeah sure 14:59 <@mtf> stenno: aos: I wouldn't discount ADOM just because it's closed source... The gameplay is fantastic, and I really think anybody that enjoys Nethack but wants a "bigger" experience would enjoy ADOM\ 14:59 Well, if I'm going to be interested in it _as a roguelike_. 14:59 There are also other kinds of games that interest me, of course. 14:59 YASI: turn-based minecraft mod - if you play on hardcore mode, it's a true roguelike! 14:59 <@mtf> running in a terminal is another thing I could care lessa bout 14:59 @mtf i like that seems to have depth and atmosphere 15:00 <@mtf> yes very much so 15:00 thats what i like so much about dnethack 15:00 <@mtf> and lots of options and variety when it come sto exploring 15:00 @mtf Running in a terminal makes it convenient for me to play. 15:00 its surely the mod with the most atmosphere 15:00 <@mtf> jona: Steam makes running games convenient for me to play 15:00 <@mtf> one click, launch 15:00 slex doesn't have atmosphere and consistentcy, its just a clownfiesta 15:00 In practice, games that don't run in a terminal are inelligible for 95% of my game play time. 15:00 stenno: Hmm, how would you define atmosphere in a nethack variant? 15:00 <@mtf> I think you are stopping yourself from discovering other great games if that is one of your priorities 😛 15:00 aosdict: its difficult :D but dnethack has it! 15:01 aosdict: i'd have to think a bit what i mean with that 15:01 <@mtf> I also like how in ADOM the alignment system really means good / evil 15:01 I do feel at times that nethack's dungeons and "story" lacks some coherency 15:01 all the demonic stuff, all the intricate levels 15:01 <@mtf> so if you are C character (or a chaos knight, which is a super evil class), many L NPC's won't help you, and murdering them is actually encouraged 15:01 <@mtf> there are quests to murder townspeople for example 15:01 stenno: I dunno, when I play slex it feels pretty atmospheric for me ;) 15:02 LarienTelrunya: idk its just all thrown together 15:02 also, I have now officially decided that I'm in love with feedback friday: https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikedev/comments/86i0rf/feedback_friday_35_slashem_extended/dw6b276/ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 15:02 its not consistent and so there isn't really any atmosphere for me 15:02 but yeah its a subjective thing of course 15:02 @mtf NetHack's alignment axis can be summed up on the D&D alignment chart as a line drawn from Lawful Good to Chaotic Neutral, with Moloch and the Wizard sitting in Neutral Evil. 15:02 <@mtf> I'm very aware aos 😛 15:03 <@mtf> C chars in nethack are not necessarily evil 15:03 I'm not really sure how to handle this 15:03 [hdf-us] [xnh] krm26 (Arc Hum Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:22641 15:03 aosdict: Moloch is clearly chaotic evil :P 15:03 moloch is UNA 15:03 actually isn't there una in slex 15:03 i bet there is 15:04 rodney is technically una too, but chaotic in game terms 15:04 <@mtf> Here's an example of a cool C quest in ADOM: http://ancardia.wikia.com/wiki/Kill_Guth%27Alak 15:04 stenno: Yeah, but the source says that unaligned = evil. 15:04 <@mtf> you have to murder a powerful NPC in the starting town 15:04 Except for artis. 15:05 <@mtf> I also like how in ADOM a lot of artifacts have good and bad properties 15:05 <@mtf> such as: http://ancardia.wikia.com/wiki/Shield_of_Raw_Steel 15:05 <@mtf> so assembling your set of gear isn't as easy as putting on the stuff with the best stats 15:05 i guess there is a difference between unaligned and not aligned? :P 15:06 in nethack most double-edged artis take advantage of typos/UI stuff like Stormbringer 15:07 <@mtf> right 15:07 aosdict: regarding dnethack atmosphere: its just how consistent it is, it just draws much content from kaballah and lovecraft 15:07 <@mtf> I think my fav part about ADOM, though, is item destruction 15:07 it all fits together very fine and neatly and as such creates a very dark and mysterious, dangerous atmosphere 15:07 <@mtf> your set of gear is almost always at danger of being destroyed 15:07 <@mtf> thus, paying attention to potential danger is extremely important 15:07 nobody let LarienTelrunya play ADOM 15:08 no other variant does that, that i know 15:08 and vanilla doesn't do it either, of course 15:08 <@mtf> some of the best items in the game are cloth, or iron 15:08 <@mtf> and are thus open to item destruction 15:08 <@mtf> so you have to try to mitigate this 15:09 <@mtf> things like stacking immunities, rings of ice (which prevent fire damage to inventory), etc 15:09 dnethack is just really dark and evil and dangerous 15:09 <@mtf> then there are monsters like annihilators which can destroy any non-artifact item on touch 15:09 <@mtf> thus ranged is very important (and actually pretty OP) in ADOM too 15:09 slex might be dangerous, but its not really dark, its very colorful and silly 15:10 <@mtf> I think slex dungeons are rather pretty 15:10 stenno: It contains some rather edgy humor. 15:11 And by edgy I mean clearly NSFW. 15:11 that in itself is not a problem for me 15:11 <@mtf> yea I think that's somewhat offputting about slex... I was trying to explain to my housemate that I was playing the craziest game ever, but he was giving me weird looks when I was talking about urine lakes in police stations 15:11 it just doesn't help creating a sinister atmosphere 15:12 which again, it has its playerbase, some people really like it, and by that alone its already a nice and accomplished variant 15:12 <@mtf> what I'm having trouble understanding 15:13 i just don't like it, hopefully this doesn't come across as flaming against it 15:13 <@mtf> is there seems to be a lot of changes from vanilla that are intended to make the game harder 15:13 <@mtf> like stacks of water being too big to be dipped into holy water 15:13 <@mtf> that don't really vibe with the weird and wacky environment 15:13 i wouldn't advise against playing slex 15:13 <@mtf> It's like the game is trying to be serious and zany at the same time 15:14 mtf: that actually goes both ways, stacks of items can resist manipulation; if you dip a stack of X scrolls/potions/whatever into holy water, there is a 1 in X chance that the entire stack is blessed, otherwise the potion is lost. 15:14 <@mtf> I find myself just kind of forgetting about all the chaff and clutter and playing slex fast rather than slowing down and learning every individual detail like I would with a standard roguelike 15:14 if a spellcaster tries to curse that stack of 10 blessed teleport scrolls, there's likewise a 1 in 10 chance it succeeds and otherwise it's unaffected :) 15:15 <@mtf> oh, interesting 15:15 basically, I wanted to get rid of the need to accumulate huge stacks of stuff to get the most out of a potion of water; now, the amount of holy water you need is directly proportional to the amount of things you want to bless 15:16 @mtf Yes, playing slex fast without worrying about it is probably the only approach that will let you retain a measure of sanity, honestly. 15:16 and in order to make more (after you've obtained a stack of uncursed water), you'll probably have to do another water prayer 15:16 <@mtf> I somehow failed my first prayer in the game, so no holy water for me =/ 15:16 to be fair its a bit silly that a single holy water is enough for the whole game 15:16 True. 15:16 <@mtf> oh I don't disagree with the change at all, it's more balanced 15:17 <@mtf> but it's weird that slex seems to go for both balance and craziness simultaneously 15:17 <@mtf> I'm not sure that can actually be accomplished lol 15:19 grunt tried that 15:19 mtf: remember how you said my delusion was off the charts when you read my "balance blog"? I'm actually serious when it comes to balancing slex, even if the craziness of slex probably makes it seem like its creator didn't care about balance at all ;) 15:20 <@mtf> hehe well more power to you 15:20 <@mtf> like I said, I'm having fun with the result so far 😄 15:20 <@mtf> I do wish there was some way to know about some of these changes ahead of time though 15:20 hearing that makes me so happy :) 15:20 <@mtf> there's just so many, probably hard to document 15:21 @mtf slex has its own idea of what "balance" means, which centers around not being reliably winnable on a consistent basis at high levels of skill. 15:21 LarienTelrunya: you should be aware that many people really like your variant 15:21 oh, there's https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Bluescreenofdeath/Hints which has a couple important things, but there's probably lots of stuff missing from there 15:21 <@mtf> yea I did read that, spent some time looking around the wiki for slex specific stuff 15:22 Shout out to the purple worm who killed both the Wizard of Yendor and the High Priest of Moloch 15:22 I guess I should really mention the fact that item stacks can resist manipulation 15:22 Likely. 15:22 -!- rld1 has joined #hardfought 15:22 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld1] by ChanServ 15:23 <@riker> @le?gorgon fly 15:24 -!- rld has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:24 triggers wont work 15:24 hehe 15:24 as it has your username first 15:24 @le?gorgon fly 15:24 derp 15:24 no punabot 15:25 @v?bat 15:25 the bot is down :( 15:25 Adeon: Pinobot is down! :( 15:26 I haven't run pinobot in like a year 15:26 Adeon: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-03-22 17:52 EDT: Pinobot seems to be down? :( 15:26 pff not even from today 15:26 it's run by someone else 15:27 Adeon: wtf? really? who is that someone else? 15:27 I actually have no clue 15:27 K2 will probably know 15:27 or Tangles 15:27 I think it's Pinoclone running in here 15:28 but I can't remember who made it happen 15:30 Tangles setup beholder to tap into pinobot 15:31 why ann kathrin lol 15:31 i'd have to look at the code again to see exactly where the bot is running from 15:31 she was my first girlfriend *sadface* 15:31 i knew such a person from my school 15:31 ooh 15:31 strange :P 15:31 so slex is revenge porn... 15:32 LarienTelrunya? girlfriend? you mean i'll never get the chance to be your long distance boyfriend? 15:32 wtf! 15:32 she was a satanist at a christian school 15:32 K2: why boyfriend? you're my one true love and you're already married, you just don't know it yet! ♥ 15:32 *hug* 15:32 rofl 15:32 (married to me, of course) 15:33 its like an arranged marriage 15:33 we've never formally met 15:33 * elenmirie gets the firehose 15:33 i gave your father 5 goats and a moose to win your hand 15:33 lol 15:33 a MOOSE? 15:33 a moose 15:33 this is vermont 15:34 lol 15:34 also, while my first girlfriend was such a wonderfully wing-tufted, lovely girl, she just was on a completely different wavelength and it was never meant to be :( 15:34 :/ 15:34 at first I was all excited to have such a sweeeeeeeet girl, but then she started bitching about every little thing and annoying the hell out of me 15:34 Mønti Pythøn ik den Hølie Gräilen Røtern nik Akten Di Wik Alsø wik Alsø alsø wik Wi nøt trei a høliday in Sweden this yër? 15:35 stenno LOL 15:35 like, when I wished "break a leg" to someone (Hals- und Beinbruch), she thought I had meant it literally, and said "what, Amy, you want him to break a leg???" 15:35 oh dear 15:35 and she wasn't joking, she was really bitching that I had allegedly said something terrible to that person and wouldn't listen to my explanation of the idiom 15:36 hmm 15:36 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "", on T:56639 15:36 nice wish 15:36 hopefully that didnt last long 15:36 well, it's bad luck to wish someone good luck in the theatre, so that's an entirely correct wish... 15:36 K2: less than half a year, then she dumped me; I was crushed at that point, but in hindsight I now know that it was probably for the better 15:37 next time i'm going to wish for 'world peace' 15:37 whirled peas! 15:37 LarienTelrunya yeah i understand 15:37 yep, it happens that way sometimes 15:37 i've been in a couple crazy relationships too 15:37 especially when you're young 15:37 is that when you boil/steam peas and put them in a salad spinner 15:38 I set my nethack fruit to that once, and it insisted on singularising it 15:38 imagine we'd still be together, I'd probably have to explain/fight over completely mundane sentences with her all the damn time, and really, who has the time and energy to do that??? 15:38 you see here a whirled pea 15:38 LarienTelrunya thats why you should date men. we have a completely different level of bullshit, its more direct and not so crazy 15:38 @mtf I feel that ADOM is more opaque than NetHack 15:38 <@mtf> oh hi FIQ 15:38 <@mtf> yea, it totally is, that's the nature of closed-source 15:38 It has several mechanics that is basically completely unreasonable for a person to even try to learn how they work 15:38 like statues 15:38 K2: heh :) 15:39 :P 15:39 <@mtf> well, they've been changed since you played FIQ 15:39 <@mtf> now you have to wait on statues for them to have effect (if they were a step-on statue before) 15:39 !who 15:39 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] cpittman [nh4] ttc1401 [slex] MiseryMyra [fh] Kame [dnh] hothraxxa [xnh] krm26 [xnh] 15:39 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-eu] engelson [dyn] AmyBSOD [slex] elenmirie [xnh] 15:39 <@mtf> so they are more reasonable... still crazy in the number of things they can do 15:39 <@mtf> and some are terrible 15:39 YANI: wishing for 'world peace' makes all existing and future spawned monsters peaceful 15:39 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed ring of levitation", on T:56705 15:39 wondering if ttc1401 is a player from r/roguelikedev ;) 15:39 <@mtf> but I mostly just avoid them 15:39 that's an interesting point; how do you know behavior changed? are you limited to checking changelogs? 15:40 K2: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Phol_ende_wodan/YANI#Wishing_for_non-objects 15:40 ;) 15:40 <@mtf> lol... yes, that and lots of testing that @Grond does over in #adom 15:40 <@mtf> it definitely makes the development practice a bit more painful 15:40 <@mtf> b/c TB says he fixes bugs, but sometimes doesn't 15:40 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 15:41 aosdict \o/ 15:42 You are putting on an enchanted (of poison resistance) pair of soft footwear named Ann Kathrin <3. 15:42 fruitname=world peace 15:44 in grunthack my fruitname is 'pan galactic gargle blaster' 15:44 i like to have a different fruit name for each variant 15:44 oh crap that reminds me... i copied over my 3.6.1 cfg for xnethack, i need to change the fruit name there 15:45 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:48154 15:45 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:48156 15:46 lol 15:46 mine was 'you found bones' for quite some time 15:46 probably still is on some old NAO accounts 15:47 Hmm, I wonder if I should rename "normal" mode to "easy" mode, and rename "challenge" mode to "normal" and make it the default. 15:47 Would players lynch me? 15:47 hehe 15:47 aosdict: I have considered implementing something akin to ADOM piety 15:47 and having "negative piety" be god anger 15:47 jonadab: Your so-called easy mode already has elder black dragons that can suddenly and without warning disintegrate your ascension kit. Can't lynch you more than once, can I? :P 15:48 And yeah, I still stand by my opinion that disintegration resistance should protect your gear. 15:49 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 15:49 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 15:50 LarienTelrunya: I intend to make extrinsic disint res protect your gear. 15:50 When I get around to it. 15:50 well hopefully that'll be soon, it should take at most 10 minutes to code that :D 15:50 @mtf jonadab is right, reddit will eventually go away. Just look at facebook, it replaced myspace, became huge, and seems to be getting smaller now because it's not "cool" anymore 15:50 Yeah, just have ot track down all the places in the code where disint destroys things. 15:50 How many can there be? 15:51 of course, so will IRC, allthough IRC seems to have the curious ability to Simply Not Die 15:51 FIQ: Facebook is still quite a LOT larger than reddit. 15:51 the only sources of disintegration that I can think of in vanilla are black dragon breath and very angry gods, I think? 15:51 si 15:51 and in fourk a very spiteful melee attack is an additional source of the effect :D 15:51 I mean, I hate facebook and it is terrible; but it is very widely used. 15:51 destroy armor 15:52 monster spell and scroll 15:52 stenno: well that's not really disintegration, as the resistance doesn't prevent that even in vanilla 15:52 jonadab: there is just 1 place... 15:52 right 15:52 zhitu 15:52 and zhitm for monsters 15:52 jonadab: i've been wanting to quit facebook for awhile now, but unforntunately i cant (girl scout troop info, certain important family use ONLY facebook for comms, etc) 15:53 and some nethack stuff 15:53 @mtf have you seen that IRC xkcd comic 15:53 while it mostly pokes fun at people who refuse to let IRC go, it shows something else too -- several platforms come and go 15:53 <@mtf> sorry, was on the phone 15:53 but decentralized platforms stay relevant 15:53 lets bring icq back 15:53 (IRC) 15:54 337896326 15:54 was my icq number 15:54 FIQ, jonadab: I am interested to see the long-term effects of the recent news about Facebook (losing/possibly selling 50M people's user data) 15:54 964361 15:54 <@mtf> facebook getting smaller? 15:54 <@mtf> not really 15:54 that was mine 15:54 <@mtf> It's gigantic 15:54 (my second one :P) 15:54 aosdict: I don't think it will be what kills facebook 15:54 my first one i don't remember anymore 15:54 It will generate a bunch of bad press, people will be angry 15:54 <@mtf> IMO facebook isn't going away, and isn't comparable to myspace 15:54 Then it will be forgotten 15:54 but was probably a 6-digit too 15:54 What will kill facebook isn't anything specific 15:54 it will just become smaller over time 15:54 and vanish 15:54 Facebook is failing with younger generations. 15:54 i remember when icq acct numbers in the 100000 range were worth $$$ 15:54 <@mtf> and yea FIQ I've seen that IRC xkcd, hilarious 15:54 that's what I think 15:54 <@mtf> it's a perfect depiction 😛 15:55 lol K2 15:55 aosdict: They've been several times previously caught changing their privacy policy without warning to sell data that users gave them under a policy that said they wouldn't. I predict no repercussions. 15:55 <@mtf> My steam account is old enough to be worth good money 15:55 heh, ICQ 15:55 heh i'm not kidding ppl would pay money for a account in the 100000 to 199999 range 15:55 never used that 15:55 I did use MSN 15:55 i used msn just because a girl used it 15:56 @mtf Actually, their Alexa rank has slipped to 3, used to be 2. Though that may be because of YouTube getting bigger, more than Facebook getting smaller. 15:56 and if your account was sub one million ppl who didnt know any better would be impressed 15:56 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) entered the Planes, on T:58016 15:56 icq -> jabber -> whatsapp -> telegram is my progression 15:56 Here we go 15:56 !gt MiseryMyra 15:56 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/426831683397091337/unknown.png 15:56 K2: !gt when 15:56 <@mtf> hey look, 5 digits are going to for 25$ 15:56 anyone here ever used Trillian? 15:56 jonadab: Facebook itself might fail, but they do own stuff like Instagram. 15:56 <@mtf> so my 6 digit must be like 20$, right? 15:56 one chat app to rule them all 15:56 of all the "fun" commands Beholder has 15:57 like !tea, !booze, etc 15:57 K2: yeah i did 15:57 I'm surprised you didn't add !gt 15:57 \o/ 15:57 best windows client 15:57 had irc also 15:57 Meaning Facebook might die as a platform but not a company. 15:57 I had heard of Trillian 15:57 but I never userd it myself 15:57 aosdict: facebook as such will outlive Instagram. Instagram lives on a much more fickle diet of "this is the cool app for my phone". 15:57 FIQ: i think we left !gt off on purpose. that's rodney/#nethack 15:57 pidgin for linux 15:57 K2: meh 15:58 and i guess nowadays i'd use pidgin for windows too 15:58 Well, it's not just instagram, they have acquired other stuff though I can't remember which 15:58 stenno: Is pidgin even relevant anymore? 15:58 Like, is there platforms that it supported that is relevant today? 15:58 jabber 15:58 aosdict: If they had any sense, they'd acquire a substantial share of something that's not IT-related. 15:58 Just to hedge their bets. 15:58 aosdict: whatsapp 15:58 ejabberd is the only software i know that i used that was written in erlang 15:59 is probably the big one besides fb/instagram 15:59 oh man icq is still a thing 15:59 haha 15:59 K2: how many users does it have 15:59 guess what, myspace is also still a thing 15:59 https://icq.com 15:59 oh there was icq2go 15:59 myspace? never heard of her 15:59 stenno: haha if people realize that and go back due to the facebook shenanigans 15:59 that would be hilarious 15:59 but that's not happening 16:00 probably not 16:00 actually this wont put much of a dent into fb's userbase i'd reckon 16:00 this whole issue 16:00 Please tell me ICQ is not still a thing. 16:00 Oh my word. 16:00 lol 16:00 people will still use instagram and whatsapp 16:01 facebook probably knows a lot about me already even though i never used it 16:01 just because i use whatsapp 16:01 Eh, people still use usenet. 16:01 Just not very many people, relatively speaking. 16:01 Heck Menche still uses gopher. 16:01 yeah I was wondering how many actually use icq 16:01 oh wow gopher 16:01 ooh boy 16:01 haven't heard that in a long time 16:01 i just clicked on the link to get icq for windows, wanted to see if my old account still worked 16:01 didn't realize gopher still was around 16:01 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/426832990455201803/unknown.png 16:01 pidgin can do gopher iirc 16:01 ublock origin did this: 16:02 I mean, I guess it is, it's decentralized 16:02 uBlock Origin has prevented the following page from loading: 16:02 https://r.mail.ru/clo12053242/icq.mail.ru/exe.icq.com/icqsetup.exe 16:02 but still 16:02 Not sure why Menche uses gopher, he wasn't born yet when it was current tech. 16:02 bwahahaha 16:02 K2: ouch 16:02 the russians own icq! 16:02 @mtf that thing is really hating on your steam account 16:02 <@mtf> lol 16:02 do you blanket-ban any .ru ? 16:02 FIQ: It's only sort of still around. There are like three gopher servers in the world, or something. 16:02 <@mtf> FIQ: https://steamdiscovery.com/calculator.php?q=76561197961833261&pile-of-shame 16:02 <@mtf> this page is hilarious 16:03 stenno no 16:03 <@FIQ> tried to enter my steam account 16:03 but that url seems fishy indeed :D 16:03 <@FIQ> "could not be found" 16:03 oh hey fiq 16:03 i broke my own rule 16:03 <@mtf> FIQ: you have to enter info from in game 16:03 greetings to the other side 16:03 <@mtf> or log in with steam 16:03 i didnt highlite the link to look at it first 16:03 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 16:03 so icq.com was compromised? 16:04 but thats why i have tools in place to catch my own lapse in judgement (usually when i'm drunk) 16:04 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 16:04 maybe? or perhaps its a legot russian company that owns it now 16:04 *legit 16:04 @mtf how do I get my id 16:04 wnership of ICQ passed from Mirabilis to AOL in 1998, and from AOL to Mail.Ru Group in 2010. 16:04 <@mtf> FIQ: just log into that page w/ steam, it'll give you your ID then 16:05 yeah but I can't change address in the steam browser 16:05 <@mtf> so don't do it in the steam browser? lol 16:05 the address bar is read-only... 16:05 what do you mean then? 16:05 by "logging in with steam" 16:05 <@mtf> FIQ: 16:05 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/426833927978876938/unknown.png 16:05 <@mtf> do you see the giant "sign in with steam" thing? 😛 16:06 stenno: interesting 16:06 <@mtf> you can also use your community ID / URL 16:06 @mtf I never found that page 16:06 K2: holy fuck 16:06 but it's ok 16:06 o_O 16:06 I got in anyway 16:06 with another way 16:06 <@mtf> so like for me, that's http://steamcommunity.com/id/MondayTuesdayFriday 16:07 K2: i just logged in with my old address and even remmebered my password 16:07 hahaha awesome 16:07 lemme try... 16:07 <@FIQ> These are the 28 games that FIQ owns but has never played. SHAME. Only 56% of the owned games have ever been played. SHAME. Buying these unplayed games today would cost $306.74 USD. SHAME. The highest rated is Beat Hazard with a score of 0%. SHAME. Use our Steam calculator to see the total value of FIQ's game collection 16:07 I think its game listing is broken... 16:07 I don't own beat hazard 16:08 https://steamdiscovery.com/calculator.php?q=76561198040997070&pile-of-shame 16:08 stenno LOL yeah 16:08 i just did as well 16:08 :D 16:08 blast from the past 16:08 974361 not 964361 16:08 to see all those contacts 16:08 you should cqeach other 16:08 i have zero contacts 16:08 rip 16:08 but its my account it remembers me 16:08 lol 16:08 nice 16:08 HOLY SHIT 16:09 D: 16:09 stenno add 974361 16:09 sec 16:09 oh wait theres my contacts 16:09 all 2 of them 16:09 this reminds me of Nintendo friend codes 16:09 how do i do that 16:09 so that's where they got the idea from 16:09 no wonder people say their internet infrastructure is outdated 16:09 click on the square/pen symbol to right of search bar 16:09 then 'add contact' 16:09 is the client the same 16:10 like what you used back then 16:10 not at all 16:10 aw 16:10 i am at the webclient 16:10 its totally different 16:10 i wouldn't install it :P 16:10 i did hah 16:10 i'm about to wipe this system so its fine 16:10 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) averted death, on T:58250 16:10 ok sec 16:10 uh-oh 16:11 invitation sent 16:11 <@mtf> @FIQ goddamn, 300 bucks 16:11 oh man that 'oh oh' sound 16:11 lol 16:11 hmm i dont see it yet 16:11 974361 correct? 16:11 yeah 16:11 you are K2 16:11 not authorized 16:11 <@mtf> FIQ: You've only played half of the games you own? now that is for shame 16:12 yup K2 16:12 @mtf you have played even less 16:12 lol 16:12 not authorized? 16:12 now i know your date of birth 16:12 also most of my games are from humble bundles 16:12 which is why 16:12 omg no! 16:12 heh 16:12 oh 16:12 Your account has been compromised. Please proceed to the following link to unblock your account: https://icq.com/337896326/antispam?sc=79475335 16:12 I'm not actually one of these silly people who can't stop themselves from buying things on steam sales 16:12 lol 16:12 <@mtf> ah shit I am 32% of games played aren't I 16:12 rofl 16:12 <@mtf> lol 16:13 Sten Man 16:13 There has been suspicious activity with your account, 16:13 please add phone number to your account 16:13 K2: yeah thats me 16:13 i added you 16:13 stenno: do it, what can go wrong 16:13 nice nick hah 16:13 and i know your birthday also 16:13 yeah i can't send i think 16:14 assuming that i gave the correct one 16:14 what is it? 16:14 (you can post here, i don't care) 16:14 $p0ng3b0b 16:14 oh great 16:14 ... 16:14 that is not a birthday 16:14 <@mtf> hey btw, has FH been updated on server w/ that bones update? 16:14 lol 16:14 i do care 16:14 oops 16:14 lmao 16:14 heh 16:14 oops 16:14 now that i know it 16:15 @mtf yes 16:15 stenno: you can't really blame K2 here 16:15 <@mtf> coool 16:15 :D 16:15 what is stenno birthday 16:15 no comment 16:15 K2: have you sent me a mail? 16:15 aw 16:15 er 16:15 "mail" 16:15 no i havent not yet 16:15 sent me a message? 16:15 somehow i do _not_ want to add my phone number 16:16 ok i sent one 16:16 K2: i see your message 16:16 but i don't think i can send one 16:16 :( 16:16 i havent used irq since... 1998 i think 16:16 20 years 16:16 MiseryMyra has low hp 16:16 its amazing the passwords we remember 16:16 given the contacts i have, i must've used it in 2008 16:17 yeah 16:17 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 premium heart", on T:25108 16:17 anyway that was fun 16:17 MiseryMyra: do you not have means of dealing with slow monster? 16:17 heh 16:17 i am not going to add my phone number to this 16:17 astral can be bad 16:17 dont blame you 16:17 so thats it then 16:17 be careful 16:17 was fun while it lasted 16:17 ikr 16:17 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) wished for "uncursed historic greased magic marker named alex raymond", on T:48545 16:17 lol 16:18 ah well back to xnethack 16:18 I don't think I do 16:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +3 atma weapon", on T:25115 16:18 <@Winsalot> in fh, how do I identify what property my magical item has? 16:18 <@Winsalot> spell of identify doesn't seem to work 16:18 same as the usual ways you identify things 16:19 ah yes, needs basic divination 16:19 or noncursed scroll 16:19 or discover it when it takes effect 16:19 <@Winsalot> Ok 16:20 MiseryMyra: have you ascended other variants (or vanilla) before? 16:20 <@Winsalot> Wow, items can have multiple properties?! Nice 16:20 curious since you have no means of portal detection 16:20 which is very unusual 16:21 @Winsalot yep 16:21 !who 16:21 FIQ: [hdf-us] Luxidream [nh4] cpittman [nh4] ttc1401 [slex] MiseryMyra [fh] pavelek [nh] firemonkey [nd] Kame [dnh] hothraxxa [xnh] krm26 [xnh] 16:21 FIQ: [hdf-eu] engelson [dyn] AmyBSOD [slex] stenno [xnh] 16:22 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 16:23 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 16:23 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) averted death, on T:58517 16:24 so many lifesavings 16:24 Misery is having some issues on Air 16:24 2 Rodneys 16:24 actually i will watch germany vs. spain 16:24 ouch 16:25 not quite like that one game where Plane of Air was completely frozen 16:25 It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't keep summoning monsters 16:25 that soundsd convenient 16:25 still no idea what caused that freak incident 16:25 never seen it since 16:25 <@Tone> @mtf haha this site is hilarious 16:26 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) averted death, on T:58536 16:26 <@Tone> https://steamdiscovery.com/calculator.php?q=76561197992773471&pile-of-shame 16:26 fh nearly always has two rodneys 16:26 <@mtf> holy shit dude 16:26 only 2 LS left 16:26 <@mtf> 253 games unplayed?! 16:26 EPI: Rodney is guaranteed to appear on each of the five Planes. 16:26 hothraxxa: He can only double trouble once per respawn now 16:27 People got annoyed over the constant double troubling 16:27 yes but still, you always get two 16:27 i like that the euro server is starting to get some regular play 16:27 Not always :P 16:27 But yeah 16:27 <@Tone> Yeah that sounds high, it can't be right can it? @mtf 16:27 it's the first thing he does 16:27 double trouble is really the most annoying rodney spell 16:27 <@mtf> I mean how many games do you have in your steam library? 16:27 <@Tone> I'll have to look when I'm home later 16:27 stenno: I improved AI in FIQHack in general 16:27 <@mtf> It said youv'e played 75%, so that would mean you have around 1000 right? 16:27 No reason not to cast it ASAP 16:27 ok off to get more girl scout cookies 16:27 So yeah 16:27 that's what happens 16:27 i guess 16:28 It was annoying when there was no limit 16:28 so now he can only do it once 16:28 per respawn 16:28 Oh I remember now 16:28 <@Tone> @mtf I think that percentage is backwards, the calculator said I had around 350 games or something 16:28 <@mtf> gotcha 16:28 this arised mostly from one time where @luxidream got a Rodney with turn undead 16:28 so a Rodney would die 16:28 Double Trouble happens 16:28 then a Rodney undeadturns his corpse 16:28 so now there's 3 Rodneys 16:28 etc 16:29 <@luxidream> that was fun 16:29 istr getting two rodneys and one stole my quest artifact and the other stole the amulet 16:29 @MiseryMyra most people use their LS rather than just carrying it around 16:29 this is important 16:29 you are dying 16:29 (again) 16:30 <-- not most 16:30 carrying two atm 16:30 hothraxxa: MiseryMyra isn't wearing any amulet at all 16:30 and he has 20% HP left 16:30 prefer to wear the eota 16:30 he's going to die 16:30 lol 16:30 I forgot :c 16:30 * LarienTelrunya is wearing an amulet of waterwalking ;) 16:30 oh well it might be prudent to wear one 16:30 Also, I'm a she 16:30 MiseryMyra: sorry 16:30 that might have made the difference between ascension and death... 16:31 fiq isn't really canadian, he just apologizes like one 16:31 at least you got away from Rodney it seems 16:31 No worries 16:31 Thanks for the reminder, regardless 16:31 np 16:31 i think the amulet of life saving should be renamed to the amulet of deferred death 16:32 FIQ: huh, why does gender make the difference between ascension and death? 16:32 LarienTelrunya: you're misunderstanding 16:32 MiseryMyra wasn't wearing her LS 16:32 I know :D 16:32 just couldn't resist, sorry ;) 16:32 the fact that I reminded her might have made the difference 16:32 is what I meant 16:32 hah 16:32 anyway, brb eat 16:32 !lotg MiseryMyra 16:32 May the Luck of the Grasshopper be with you always, MiseryMyra! 16:33 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed magic marker", on T:26156 16:36 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) averted death, on T:58606 16:37 back 16:37 uh... 16:38 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Illurien of the Myriad Glimpses, on T:26533 16:38 MiseryMyra: FYI your regeneration speed slows down as you lose constitution from life saving 16:39 if you have restore ability, might want to drink a blessed one 16:39 I don't 16:41 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 16:44 whats your constitution now? 16:44 10 16:45 Can I levitate out of the bubbles? 16:45 <@Winsalot> I have some trouble with lecrotta right now 16:45 MiseryMyra: Levitation is blocked in the plane of water 16:45 hence "-Lev" 16:45 Aw 16:45 <@Winsalot> Can I deal with it with scroll of scare monstaer 16:45 @Winsalot, yes 16:46 also I attempted to make the entire plane visible 16:46 <@Winsalot> should I drop it or read it? 16:46 why is that not working 16:46 need to fix that 16:46 @Winsalot drop it 16:47 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) read the necronomicon for the first time, on T:27039 16:47 <@Winsalot> Thanks Stenno 16:47 drop it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx6_MWVHZ4g 16:47 np 16:48 <@riker> !whereis kame 16:49 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law) reached the Astral Plane, on T:58791 16:49 Aw heck, conflict 16:49 <@riker> rip 16:49 <@riker> good luck tho 16:50 <@riker> !tell Chris_ANG there are 31 (I think) bits of the necronomicon. can you raise the limit from 6-8 to like 9-12? would be nice to get at least one passable one. I just got cause fear, shoggoth, protection, turn undead, detect unseen, and other useless stuff. not even a spirit half 16:51 <@riker> whereas kame is over here with FoD, half the spirits, and only at 3 readings ;-; 16:52 [hdf-us] [xnh] krm26 (Arc Hum Fem Neu) made her first wish - "blessed +2 Grayswandir", on T:26562 16:53 <@riker> and summon devils ffs 16:55 aosdict: should Astral be fully lit? 16:55 divine light 16:55 <@riker> yes 16:56 So, I can't teleport away monsters, right? 16:57 depends 16:57 on your wand skill 16:57 at expert and master, you can 16:57 Ah, okay, I don't think I'm skilled enough 16:59 skilled+blessed works too 16:59 Create monster is my greatest nemesis 16:59 then you will love fiqhack astral 17:01 <@Winsalot> wiki says that getting some sacrifice gifts unrestrit their skill 17:02 <@Winsalot> But does unrestricted mean basic? 17:02 correct 17:02 unrestricted means basic, and just that 17:02 so when you already have basic or better, it doesn't do anything 17:03 <@Winsalot> ok, that's worse than what I imagined but whatever 😃 17:03 its enough for stuff like grayswandir 17:03 <@Winsalot> am I better off using werebane at basic skill or mace at expert? 17:03 <@Winsalot> with a priest 17:03 what alignment? 17:04 i don't know how werebane was buffed in 3.6, but in 3.4.3 it was one of the worst weapons 17:04 so i'd probably just go with expert mace 17:05 <@Winsalot> chaotic, in FIQhack 17:05 choatic priest weapon choices are terrible 17:05 It froze 17:05 idk how werebane was changed in fiqhack though 17:05 MiseryMyra: pressed ctrl+s accidentally? 17:05 !tell K2 MiseryMyra's game has encountered an infinite loop, I need th esave 17:05 Will do, FIQ! 17:06 oh 17:06 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:06 ouch 17:06 stenno: That doesn't work in NH4 17:06 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 17:06 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 17:06 i see 17:06 oh that sounds nasty 17:06 hope your game is not lost 17:06 ...it isn't 17:06 this is NH4 17:06 lol 17:06 just I need the save 17:06 thats good 17:06 so I can look at the problem 17:06 and push a fix 17:07 sorry for the hassle, MiseryMyra 17:07 No worries 17:07 another gf, LarienTelrunya ? :P 17:07 Looks like quitting and reloading doesn't help either 17:07 stenno: heh, nope, just a girl I sometimes saw at school 17:07 she was cute though ;) 17:08 ^_^" 17:08 <@Winsalot> stenno: so you say chaotic priest is terrible? 17:08 the weapon choice is, yes 17:09 <@Winsalot> What is the best alignment for priest then? 17:09 i like lawful, because they can get the sceptre of might 17:09 priest weapon choice sucks period 17:09 which is one of the best weapons in the game 17:09 however chaotic can get stormy, which i like 17:09 neutral can get staff of aesculapius which is nice 17:09 hothraxxa: yes but you need to infini-sac for it 17:10 name sting and orcrist 17:10 and its surely not a weapon that is insanely good 17:10 unless you're an orc of course 17:10 no it's just one of my favourites 17:10 Anyway, let me know when things are up and running again, FIQ. Thank you for your work 17:10 and as chaotic priest... 17:11 yeah its probably the best you can get 17:12 !tell K2 I need MiseryMyra's save 17:12 Will do, FIQ! 17:18 this kill has been presented to you by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urwbU_Sc0ds&t=38s :) 17:18 <@mtf> I don't thing C anything is all that bad 17:18 <@mtf> b/c you can just get stormbringer 17:18 <@mtf> and it wrecks endgame 17:20 i respectfully disagree that basic stormy is a weapon that 'wrecks endgame' 17:23 at first I thought you meant C the language 17:25 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:28 <@mtf> It literally heals you as you use it 17:28 <@mtf> along with the staff of eucalyptus leaves, it's one of the best weapons IMO 17:29 only against non-drain resistant 17:29 and i think & and A are resistant 17:29 <@mtf> non-rider &'s aren't a problem 17:30 <@mtf> and rider &'s are getting deathed (except for death, who is easy enough to kill in melee) 17:30 <@mtf> A on the other hand, or more of an issue... but you know, I never run into archons in my games 17:30 <@mtf> like, ever 17:30 <@mtf> are more* 17:30 there are other A's than archons 17:30 <@mtf> and they basically don't matter 17:31 <@mtf> tbh, not much matters in endgame due to conflict 17:31 and if you have to have to rely on your bloodthirsty weapon to heal you, you have other problems 17:31 i prefer weapons like exca, grays, SoM 17:31 <@mtf> my approach to nethack endgame is "offense is the best defense"... stormy has a great offense and mitigates damage coming in due to healing 17:32 <@mtf> I would use stormy over excal every day 17:32 <@mtf> grays and SoM are obviously better 17:33 <@mtf> my point is, every C role has access to stormy, and I think it's a great weapon... therefore, no C character can really be all that bad 17:35 it might be the best chaotic artifact weapon 17:35 but i know neutral and lawful weapons that are much better 17:35 and i'd say that mkot is a better artifact than stormy 17:39 should continue my xnethack game but i am too tired now, don't wanna ruin it 17:39 so imma continue tomorrow 17:47 <@luxidream> I think N is the worst alignment for sacrificing for artifacts 17:47 <@luxidream> if you don't get magicbane/mojo on the first roll expect to waste hours or settle for vorpal blade 17:48 <@luxidream> C and L don't have this problem, because their crowning gifts aren't trash 17:48 L have the best time for weapon artifacts, N the best time by far for non-weapon artifacts, C get the shaft. 17:49 As a chaotic, you're likely to end up with the Master Key and a non-artifact weapon. 17:50 NOt that the Master Key is _bad_ mind you. 17:50 But it's not the Eye or the Card. 17:50 <@luxidream> you can crown for guaranteed stormbringer 17:50 IMO, Stormbringer is More Trouble Than It's Worth, Officially. 17:50 [hdf-us] [slex] ttc1401 (Val Dwa Fem Law), 31260 points, T:3761, killed by a monster (pile of titanium coins) 17:52 I want Grayswandir or Excalibur :-) 17:52 Though Cleaver will do in a pinch. 17:52 <@luxidream> easy, just use opposite alignment 17:53 <@luxidream> now that's more trouble than it's worth 17:54 <@mtf> yea sorry, I get stormy on like every C run 17:54 <@mtf> not too difficult 17:54 It's not the difficulty of getting it. 17:54 It's the difficulty of not screwing up your game if you're wielding it. 17:55 <@mtf> so not difficult at all? 😛 17:55 YANI: having higher skill with your weapon makes it harder for enemies to bullwhip-steal it. 17:55 <@mtf> just don't have pets, and don't wear it into temples / shops 17:55 <@mtf> boom, you're fine 17:55 @mtf I always forget and end up with lo living priests to donate to. 17:55 <@luxidream> play nh4 17:55 <@luxidream> problem solved 17:55 Well, yes. 17:55 Stormy is ok in NH4, due to having lost its downside there. 17:56 <@mtf> the downside of stormy barely exists IMO 17:56 <@mtf> which is why I think it's so good 17:56 <@mtf> I also think 3.6.1 cleaver is the best wep in the game 17:56 <@mtf> highest DPS by far 17:56 <@mtf> and it has the same problem as stormy 18:03 <@luxidream> my top two are definitely excal and stormy 18:04 <@luxidream> had too many long sacfests as neutral to say otherwise 18:05 @Winsalot how come you play on asc rather than hdf out of curiousity? 18:05 <@mtf> hehe 18:09 [hdf-us] [nh4] Rune (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 17272 points, T:910, killed by a dwarf lord 18:11 FIQ: I never understood why Astral was dark. 18:13 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 18:14 FIQ: you know what would be nice in FIQHack? 0-1 per game easy player monsters who are fresh down in the dungeon themselves, who don't really have any amazing possessions because they haven't found any yet. Maybe have some role starting gear. 18:21 aosdict: that is what I want to do eventually 18:21 more controlled player monster generation and kits 18:21 more akin to GruntHack (but not as evil -- GruntHack will happily generate player monsters with ascension kits by dlvl15) 18:21 with more natural progression 18:25 That would be neat 18:32 gah 18:32 all I wanted was see if I could pray 18:32 one sacrifice was all it took 18:33 well, I'll train longsword to basic I suppose 18:33 @mtf Wait, 3.6.1 cleaver attacks peacefuls? 18:33 Eww. 18:33 Why did they do THAT? 18:34 [hdf-us] [slex] dolores (Sco Ang Fem Cha) killed Raini, on T:544 18:34 @luxidream Grayswandir's position as best weapon in the game is not really meaningfully disputable, IMO. 18:34 Though Excalibur is better in the _early_ game. 18:35 When you can't enchant yet. 18:35 <@luxidream> I agree, but whether it's worth your time / a wish is a completely different story 18:37 Oh, sure. 18:37 Excalibur is certainly good enough that you don't need to spend a wish on a better weapon. 18:37 jonadab: I gave them a PR to fix that 18:37 it was ignored as per usual 18:38 The fact that you can get it so early (typically at Delphi) is kind of OP. 18:38 paxed seems to think that it is working as designed 18:38 Pat disagrees 18:38 I see. 18:38 hi 18:38 Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought 18:38 K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-23 17:05 EDT: MiseryMyra's game has encountered an infinite loop, I need th esave 18:38 K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-23 17:12 EDT: I need MiseryMyra's save 18:38 ok 18:38 oops, sorry for duplicate messages 18:38 eu or us server? 18:38 K2: just in case it wasn't clear, I need MiseryMyra's save ;) 18:38 US 18:38 hehehe 18:40 see pm please FIQ 18:43 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 18:45 FIQ: my kill process script for runaway proceses did its job 18:45 from email - CPU load from process fiqhack ( PID: 12436 ) User: games has reached 99% for 00:23:43. Process was killed. 18:46 rip 18:46 except 18:47 there are three other runaway processes it did not catch 18:47 same game/same user 18:48 but at least it made me look 18:48 [hdf-us] [slex] dolores (Sco Ang Fem Cha), 16105 points, T:1609, poisoned by a putrefier 18:53 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:54 heh 18:55 K2: pushed a fix 18:55 ok 18:56 FIQhack undated (us and eu) 18:56 updated 18:56 MiseryMyra: your game is on 18:56 for better or worse 18:56 i have to spell it right for aosdict tracker 18:56 FIQhack updated (us and eu) 18:56 :P 18:56 haha 18:58 <@mtf> jona: yes, 3.6.1 cleaver is bloodthirsty like stormy 18:58 <@mtf> but I'm not sure if it only applies to the main attack, or the adjacent hits 18:58 only the adjacant bits 18:58 basically 18:59 when I added cleaver 18:59 FIQ & K2: Thank you 18:59 I forgot to account for peaceful/tame in adjacant tiles 18:59 Here we go 18:59 I later pushed a fix so that it would only attack peaceful/tame if your main target was peaceful/tame 18:59 this was never pulled by 3.6.1, deliberately so 19:00 Pat seems to be in favour, unlike paxed: 36e4d80547dc2e56416e09788b0b8d0542c429dd 19:01 MiseryMyra: welcome. dont die ;) 19:01 Purple worms will be my salvation 19:01 he's stryggkubg ub astrak 19:01 MiseryMyra: not sure how well they work in FIQHack's astral 19:01 with the improved AI 19:01 since they rely mostly on AI flaws in vanilla 19:02 They've eaten a few things, anyway 19:02 mhm 19:02 any reason you don't try the middle altar 19:02 seems easier than dealing with that boulder if yo ucan't 19:02 *you can't 19:02 a Rider will destroy it anyway once it gets there 19:03 lol 19:03 digging doesn't work 19:03 you need striking 19:04 (or poly I guess) 19:06 I'm hoping I can clear things out a bit before I move 19:07 horsemen of the apocalypse 19:07 stopped by a trapper 19:07 sad 19:07 more boulders :D 19:07 right might be easiest, at l east there's no riders in that direction 19:07 *least 19:09 MiseryMyra you need to get unburdened asap 19:10 you have like a million blank srolls and potions 19:10 *scrolls 19:10 should be able to drop most of them 19:10 Yeah. I'll drop those 19:10 that is not the main contribution to your weight 19:11 you have 1621wt of stuff 19:11 is your BoH uncursed? 19:13 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed Croesus, on T:50722 19:15 Yeah, it's blessed. I've just been hoarding too much stuff 19:15 the oof is helping too I suppose 19:15 K2: just for me? aww shucks you shouldn't have 19:15 (not sure if it's a good idea to drop it, halfphy is huge) 19:16 heh 19:16 MiseryMyra: you can reach Skilled in wands 19:16 that, alongside blessing your telewands 19:16 allows you to tele things in astral 19:17 you had a million potions of water 19:17 you should be able to bless most of them if you want to 19:18 Ah, I didn't know you could dip water into holy water to get more holy water 19:19 K2: 240 :) 19:20 bwahah 19:21 <@luxidream> 1621 and not stressed? 19:21 <@luxidream> how much carrying armor do you have?! 19:22 none 19:22 he was stressed 19:22 err she 19:24 <@luxidream> ah 19:24 <@luxidream> surprised you were able to lug all of that through the planes without event 19:24 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:31 [hdf-us] [dnh] rikersan (Val Hum Fem Law), 241 points, T:594, killed by a bat 19:32 <@riker> !role fh 19:32 <@riker> !role 19:32 <@riker> !ping 19:33 So, how would I get skilled in wands? Just keep zapping? 19:39 <@riker> yes 19:41 MiseryMyra: you already have the required exercise 19:41 according to the skill list 19:41 So just #enhance? 19:41 yeah 19:42 http://home.fiq.se/skills.png 19:42 <@riker> fiq: opening a tin, accidentally hit enter during it 19:42 <@riker> it paused but I lost the tin 19:43 I completely forgot about that mechanic 19:43 yeah I noticed, heh 19:43 not a single skill enhanced 19:43 maybe that's why you've had issues.. 19:44 @riker pressing enter defaults to n 19:44 it's safer 19:44 <@riker> but I didn't get a prompt 19:44 you probably did 19:44 just that you were too slow 19:44 <@riker> no, nothing in my msg history 19:44 er, I mean 19:44 <@riker> >_> 19:44 lag 19:44 I'm actually kind of a NetHack noob 19:44 then it shouldn't have disappeared 19:44 This will be my first ascension on any variant, if I get it 19:45 <@riker> fiq: exactly >_> 19:45 MiseryMyra: there was this person who didn't know you could use bags in the inventory 19:45 he died due to this 19:45 on Plane of Fire 19:45 <@riker> that was so horrible lol 19:46 rip StatueSurfer 19:46 Wow 19:46 [hdf-us] [nh] karlos (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 228 points, T:356, killed by a boulder 19:46 <@riker> yea 19:46 <@luxidream> to be fair I made the same mistake for quite a while 😛 19:46 <@riker> he dropped and #looted everything 19:46 <@riker> luxi yeah but did you get to astral like that :p 19:46 [hdf-us] [fh] beholder was down (rikerw) (Pri Hum Mal Law), 26477 points, T:1825, killed by a gnome queen 19:46 <@luxidream> yeah, first two wins were like that 19:47 https://nhqdb.alt.org/?2241 19:48 !role fh 19:48 FIQ: tourist 19:48 @riker there you go 19:49 <@riker> no lol 19:49 <@riker> tourists suck 19:49 <@luxidream> tourists are godlike 19:49 <@luxidream> in FH 19:49 you haven't played fh tou 19:49 -!- Tariru has joined #hardfought 19:49 are they really that good 19:49 <@luxidream> they had to be nerfed 19:49 there wasn't any large changes... 19:49 <@riker> oh really 19:49 <@luxidream> eh they're pretty good 19:49 I mean 19:49 sure, ugranteed marker 19:49 but you can get that in vanilla too 19:50 <@luxidream> they were OP when they had the marker with charges 19:50 *guranteed 19:50 <@luxidream> yeah but you have to startscum 19:50 <@riker> !who 19:50 !who 19:50 FIQ: [hdf-us] Luxidream [nh4] cpittman [nh4] MiseryMyra [fh] rikerw [fh] Rune [dnh] hothraxxa [xnh] 19:50 FIQ: [hdf-eu] AmyBSOD [slex] 19:50 <@riker> is beholder not responding to rld 19:50 why is Beholder racist towards discord all of a suden? 19:50 *sudden 19:50 <@riker> but huh it doens't show my custom name 19:50 oh I see the problem 19:50 rld1 19:50 vs rld 19:50 yo rld1 19:50 rename yourself 19:51 <@riker> oh 19:51 <@riker> I can't 19:51 <@riker> >_> 19:51 <@rld> !test 19:51 <@rld> !who 19:51 <@riker> lol rip 19:51 <@riker> @mtf can you stop the bot and restart it real quick 19:51 ugh... learned the hard way that my huge ogre thief code apparently works on ranged attacks too :( shame, it was such a promising run 19:51 <@riker> RIP amy tho 19:51 !lastgame 19:51 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rikerw/fiqhack/dumplog/2018-03-23%2023%3A46%3A33%2C%20beholder%20was%20down-Pri-Hum-Mal-Law%2C%20died.txt 19:51 <@riker> LOL 19:51 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/A/AmyBSOD/slex/dumplog/1520110353.slex.txt 19:51 hmm I should have the account info herer somewhere 19:51 <@mtf> which bot, rld? 19:51 had just converted an altar too, and would have offered the corpse of that ogre 19:51 @mtf yeah 19:51 <@mtf> what's wrong with it? 19:51 restart the bot 19:51 <@mtf> ok 19:51 well it kind of works fine 19:51 <@mtf> one min 19:52 but it's confusing Beholder 19:52 <@riker> what's OP with tourists anyway 19:52 because it's named rld1 on IRC side 19:52 instead of rld 19:52 !tell K2 sorry if I'm annoying, but is there a chance that eu-hardfought games appear on the scoreboard? ♥ 19:52 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 19:53 -!- rld1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53 its on the to-do 19:53 K2: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-03-23 19:52 EDT: sorry if I'm annoying, but is there a chance that eu-hardfought games appear on the scoreboard? ♥ 19:54 :) 19:54 the run that I just blew on that huge ogre thief would be #3 on the slex scoreboard! 19:54 quick, post things about the discordians while the bridge is down! 19:54 i need Tangles help to do it since i want to merge both servers into one scoreboard 19:55 he's been pretty busy of late, dont want to bother him 19:57 -!- tmasher has joined #hardfought 19:59 FIQ why is there a dbl space between NPC names? 19:59 because NH4 19:59 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 19:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 19:59 I've tried to fix it at times 19:59 but can't figure out where the problem lies 19:59 hmm 20:00 now it runs btw @µtf 20:00 what just happened to MiseryMyra's game? 20:00 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/426892839545208862/unknown.png 20:00 @mtf even 20:00 <@mtf> getting some errors 20:00 K2: the game ended 20:00 <@mtf> well yea, but the second I kill the terminal it'll exit 20:00 <@riker> LOL 20:00 <@mtf> not sure how long it'll stay running if I just background it? 20:00 dunno if MiseryMyra died or if she ascended 20:00 <@riker> another magic marker, deathdropped 20:00 I ascended 20:00 <@riker> !lastgame miserymyra 20:00 @riker: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/M/MiseryMyra/fiqhack/dumplog/2018-03-19%2015%3A51%3A28%2C%20MiseryMyra-Val-Hum-Fem-Law%2C%20died.txt 20:00 <@riker> grats 20:00 if you were watching 20:00 And I only had to die 11 times 20:00 it kicks you out 20:00 even during DYWYPI 20:00 ah 20:00 where's the beholder msg? 20:01 dammit 20:01 @FIQ │ even during DYWYPI 20:01 and congrats MiseryMyra! 20:01 Still reading my endgame stuff 20:01 as in 20:01 before Beholder says it 20:01 really? it looks like you started a new game 20:02 hmm 20:02 [hdf-us] [fh] MiseryMyra (Val Hum Fem Law), 246280 points, T:59579, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/M/MiseryMyra/fiqhack/dumplog/2018-03-24%2000%3A02%3A26%2C%20MiseryMyra-Val-Hum-Fem-Law%2C%20ascended.txt 20:03 -!- rld1 has joined #hardfought 20:03 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld1] by ChanServ 20:03 :O 20:03 K2: read the message log 20:03 "The game ended while you loading it. Loading in replaymode instead" 20:03 never saw that msg 20:03 <@mtf> ok, we up? 20:03 <@mtf> I just used the forever command 20:03 <@FIQ> we are, but 20:03 <@FIQ> it's still rld1 now lol 20:03 <@mtf> sigh 20:04 -!- tmasher has left #hardfought 20:04 That was pretty intense 20:04 <@mtf> can you guys not kick those usernames? I can restart it again 20:04 officially - congrats MiseryMyra. that was a well earned game 20:04 <@mtf> misery: grats! 20:04 <@FIQ> hmm 20:04 yeah not sure why it insists on rld1 20:04 that is one of the more remarkable dumplogs you'll ever read 20:04 but I gues let it be 20:04 <@mtf> or should I just kill the bot and you can let me know when it leaves hardfought? 20:04 for now 20:04 *guess 20:04 Thank you! 20:05 hmm @mtf, there is also an rld in here 20:05 there might be a zombie? 20:05 -!- rld has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:05 con 10. how? 20:05 there 20:05 <@mtf> yea 20:05 it ded 20:05 <@mtf> I think so 20:05 try restarting now 20:05 first fiqhack ascension? 20:05 <@mtf> ok, restarting one more time 20:05 First ascension at all 20:05 *died 20:05 sorry lol 20:05 -!- rld1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05 "it ded" made perfect sense :P 20:06 That was also the first game where I completed the quest, if that tells you anything 20:07 Thanks for all your help toward the end, everyone 20:07 [hdf-us] [fh] luxidream_ tourists are godlike (rikerw) (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 43402 points, T:2252, killed by a bugbear 20:07 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 20:07 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 20:07 ah, so you pulled an @mtf 20:07 <@riker> oh no wonder I was hungry 20:07 <@riker> > of hunger and lightning 20:07 <@FIQ> hah 20:08 <@FIQ> !who 20:08 @FIQ: [hdf-us] Luxidream [nh4] cpittman [nh4] MiseryMyra [fh] rikerw [fh] Kame [dnh] Rune [dnh] hothraxxa [xnh] 20:08 @FIQ: [hdf-eu] No current players 20:08 I found two wands of wishing in the early game, which probably made all the difference 20:08 <@mtf> I think we're back 20:08 <@mtf> how we lookin in #hdf? 20:08 <@FIQ> good 20:08 <@FIQ> some lag, but I guess it's just catching up 20:08 <@mtf> oh yea, there it goes 20:08 <@FIQ> ping 20:08 pong 20:08 <@mtf> yo 20:08 <@FIQ> all good now 20:08 <@mtf> coool 20:08 why does it really matter whether it's rld or rld1 that's relaying the messages 20:08 MiseryMyra yeah that's significant 20:08 aosdict: because Beholder ignored rld1 20:08 Ah. 20:09 <@mtf> can someone link misery's dumplog? 20:09 !lastgame 20:09 FIQ: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rikerw/fiqhack/dumplog/2018-03-24%2000%3A07%3A07%2C%20luxidream%3A%20tourists%20are%20godlike-Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu%2C%20died.txt 20:09 FIQ: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/A/AmyBSOD/slex/dumplog/1520110353.slex.txt 20:09 hm 20:09 !lastgame MiseryMyra 20:09 FIQ: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/M/MiseryMyra/fiqhack/dumplog/2018-03-24%2000%3A02%3A26%2C%20MiseryMyra-Val-Hum-Fem-Law%2C%20ascended.txt 20:09 there 20:09 ha 20:09 <@mtf> thanks 20:09 <@mtf> surrounded by player monsters eh 20:09 <@mtf> hehe 20:10 you know there's also aligned priests in Astral 20:10 right 20:10 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 20:10 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 20:10 Anyway, I enjoyed having FIQHack as my first ascension. Thanks for making it, FIQ 20:10 or did you forget fh astral 20:10 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Play SLEX! It's great! :)] 20:10 with slow monster and fun 20:10 <@mtf> wait first ascension ever? 20:10 Yeah, first ever 20:10 MiseryMyra: glad you enjoyed it! 20:10 <@mtf> dude grats! I was the same way, beat FH before vanilla xD 20:10 @mtf 's first asc was also fh 20:11 Not a dude, but thanks! 20:11 <@mtf> everyone's a dude in my book 20:11 heh 20:11 dudette 20:11 <@mtf> no gender intended 😛 20:11 <@mtf> but yea that's awesome 20:12 <@mtf> what'd you think of FH now that you've gotten your first win in? 20:12 Also, thanks again for saving my life in the plane of fire, FIQ 20:12 <@mtf> anything that stands out in your mind? 20:12 it did make the difference between death and ascension after all 20:12 Maybe the real amulets of life saving were the friends we made along the way 20:13 <@riker> fiq pleaes 20:13 brb food 20:13 <@riker> this gnomish wiz has create monster 20:13 FIQHack is really the only version I've played that much, so I don't have much to compare it to 20:13 @riker yeah, so? 20:13 this is fiqhack 20:13 what did you expect 20:13 not create monster? ha 20:14 <@mtf> myra: ok, so what'd you think of nethack in general then? 20:14 MiseryMyra: since you were apparently oblivious to #enhance 20:14 [hdf-us] [nh4] cpittman (Val Dwa Fem Law), 74632 points, T:26693, killed by a xorn 20:14 <@mtf> ... wait what? 20:14 you may also want to know that you can do monster lookup by pressing : when farlooking a monster 20:15 object lookup by inventory -> object -> view info about it 20:15 I knew that one, at least 20:15 <@mtf> she didn't ascend without using #enhance did she 20:15 and you can recall remembered objects with ctrl+f 20:15 @mtf barely 20:15 she used #enhance 20:15 <@mtf> wow 20:15 in astral 20:15 mtf: Nonsense. I used it after I got to the Astral Plane 20:15 <@mtf> loool 20:15 when I told her about it 20:15 <@mtf> I"m actually kind of impressed 20:15 c,: 20:15 <@mtf> that's like a challenge run xD 20:15 it kinda reminded me of that one person who almost ascended 20:15 <@mtf> you must have been missing things constantly 20:15 without using a container in the inventory 20:16 <@mtf> 0.o 20:16 StatueSurfer 20:16 referring to https://nhqdb.alt.org/?2241 20:16 oh, and ais523 I think 20:17 <@mtf> that is impressiv 20:18 Anyway, I hope you all enjoyed watching me bumbling my way through the endgame 20:18 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed Sir Garland, on T:30724 20:18 @mtf I think ais ascended without using containers, period, just to prove it could be done 20:19 <@mtf> I want to see someone do a nudist run 20:19 <@mtf> misery: everyone bumbles their first time through 😛 the way you did is kind of crazy though 20:20 someone should challenge ais to win a game in which he never has more than 52 different items over the course of the game 20:20 <@mtf> is ais really good? 20:20 except not, because I'd like ais to have more time to work on nethack stuff 20:21 ais likes playing weird unofficial conducts and ignoring most of the items generated by the game 20:22 Anyway, I enjoyed FIQHack. I did like what changes from vanilla I recognized, and I thought it was an interesting and challenging experience 20:22 I felt bogged down by monster summoning in the latter half of the game, but maybe that's my fault for not knowing how to properly deal with it 20:23 <@mtf> also probably related to your lack of weapon skill, which definitely meant you weren't hitting things as hard or as often 20:23 <@mtf> but yea, FH is known for the hordes of monsters in the end game 20:24 <@riker> does fiqhack not do sac gifts in the feed 20:25 <@mtf> I don't know 20:25 sac gifts in the feed? 20:25 <@mtf> from beholder 20:25 <@riker> ya 20:26 oh 20:26 I see what you mean 20:26 <@mtf> alright 20:26 <@mtf> time to start another ranger 20:26 <@mtf> I swear if I get one-shot on stairs again 20:26 should it? 20:27 it's a trivial switch, it already marks it as a historic event 20:27 it's just not livelogged 20:27 <@mtf> why not? 20:27 <@mtf> would be interesting to see 20:27 <@mtf> other games show it too 20:27 <@riker> ^ 20:27 ok 20:27 pushed 20:27 !tell K2 fh updated 20:27 Will do, FIQ! 20:27 well at some point it will probably get too spammy 20:28 <@luxidream> why doesn't vanilla NH4 have any livelogging whatsoever 20:28 not necessarily with fh adding it 20:28 [hdf-us] [xnh] krm26 (Arc Hum Fem Neu) killed the Minion of Huhetotl, on T:30297 20:28 but eventually and as hdf gets more players 20:28 [hdf-us] [xnh] krm26 (Arc Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:30300 20:28 <@riker> aw yiss stormy 20:28 aosdict: as hdf gets bigger, livelogging in general might get spammy 20:28 beholder would have to do a filter in that case 20:28 yes that was my point 20:28 or just disable it completely 20:28 <@luxidream> is that why NAO stopped livelogging wishes? 20:29 (or just show wishes, because those are usually the most popular I imagine) 20:29 <@mtf> aos: we can cross that bridge as we come to it 20:29 <@luxidream> or was it because of all the stupid names 20:29 10+0 people playing atm 20:29 <@mtf> my ranger's intro song: https://open.spotify.com/track/3aGibUHhQyBsyumYHylw0K?si=BL6EWc1HSuOacoTxS9BaUw 20:29 @luxidream I think that was just a casualty of the move to 3.6.0, since 3.6.0 has no livelogging and Rodney stopped broadcasting 3.4.3 games. 20:29 was 10+3 earlier today, and yesterday too 20:29 which is nice 20:29 <@mtf> yea 20:30 <@mtf> we growin boys 20:30 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed Yeenoghu, on T:51586 20:30 [hdf-us] [fh] rogue maybe? dunno (rikerw) (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 47212 points, T:2966, killed by a plains centaur 20:30 <@riker> fffs 20:30 would be nice to see statistics 20:30 for the amount of players online 20:30 over time 20:30 <@riker> i give up now 20:30 @riker fh earlygame is easier than every other variant 20:30 apart from dnh 20:30 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:64630 20:31 <@mtf> FH early game is bliss 20:31 <@riker> fiq: about to say 'lol no dnh is better' but then you fixed it 20:31 <@riker> but anyway I've always had a problem around the time soldier ants start 20:31 <@riker> never passed that 20:31 <@mtf> if yoiu have a problem with soldier ants 20:31 The fact that FIQHack has an easy early game is probably why I made it as far as I did without giving up 20:31 <@mtf> it's because you have hit the mines with your pet and stocked up on dwarf armor 20:31 <@riker> miserymyra: play dnh please 20:32 <@riker> mtf: well I had decent armor on 20:32 <@riker> I lost a shield, and helmet to the nymph tho 20:32 <@riker> I swear just fuck n 20:32 <@mtf> I mean all slots of dwarf armor 20:32 @riker you should play wiz if you want to win 20:32 fh wiz is OP, despite my attempts at nerfing it 20:32 <@mtf> helmet, boots, body, and maybe even shield 20:32 <@riker> ^ 20:32 it received yet another nerf recently 20:32 <@riker> i konw 20:32 <@riker> I wanted something not OP 20:32 I wonder how it plays after that 20:32 <@mtf> lol 20:32 <@mtf> Gee, I wonder why FH wiz is OP 20:32 <@mtf> what could the reason possibly be 20:33 @mtf pls 20:33 <@mtf> xD 20:33 I don't want wiz to be OP 20:33 I have tried to nerf it 20:33 I'll probably take a break from NetHack for now 20:33 but I don't really want to take away the main point of wizards 20:33 <@mtf> it must hurt you to nerf your favorite class 20:33 to cast spells 20:33 I don't want to regress to vanilla in that regard 20:33 <@mtf> I don't really have a problem with wiz's being OP 20:34 perhaps magic missile shouldn't be a starting spell 20:34 <@mtf> they are wizards after all 20:34 I'm pretty burnt out at the moment 20:34 MiseryMyra: I see 20:34 sounds good 20:34 <@mtf> misery: I don't blame you... take a bit of time and bask in your victory 😄 but if you're anything like me, you'll start thinking about it more and more 20:34 @ break that is 20:34 if you're burnt out 20:34 And I'm satisfied with having an ascension at the end of it 20:35 @mtf how did your slex game go 20:35 <@mtf> ehhh it's still going 20:35 <@mtf> but I wanna play FH 20:35 <@mtf> lol 20:35 ah 20:35 heh 20:35 I thought you likedd slex 20:35 *liked 20:35 <@mtf> well I do 20:35 <@mtf> but I like FH more 20:35 despite its design philosophi being FIQHack's exact opposite 20:35 *philosophy 20:35 you should try xnh and give me feedback 20:36 <@mtf> It's a little overwhelming, but not exactly in a bad way 20:36 [hdf-us] [nh4] owsdict (Luxidream) (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 278890 points, T:54034, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/nethack4/dumplog/2018-03-24%2000%3A36%3A00%2C%20owsdict-Rog-Orc-Mal-Cha%2C%20ascended.txt 20:36 is this where I say "bundlebundlebundle" 20:36 focus on QoL <-> focus on UI screw 20:36 <@riker> go play slexxxxxxxx 20:36 <@mtf> the same idea of playing careful and avoiding danger applies to both games 20:36 balance tweaks <-> "balance" tweaks 20:36 <@riker> bundlebundlebundle @mtf go play slex ;) 20:36 <@riker> (i'm amy's american stand-in) 20:36 * aosdict eyes @luxidream's character name suspiciously 20:36 <@mtf> haha 20:36 conservative about adding new content, ensure things are polished <-> ADD ALL THE THINGS 20:36 <@mtf> here's the thing 20:36 <@mtf> slex doesn't have autoexplore 20:36 <@mtf> so that's a huge thing against it 20:36 <@luxidream> is that how you pronounce it @aosdict 20:37 <@riker> ^ 20:37 <@riker> that's true 20:37 <@mtf> my hands hurt 😦 20:37 I don't pronounce it at all. 20:37 <@mtf> ayy - ahs - dick - tttttt 20:37 <@riker> o-o 20:37 @mtf anyway, so that's what I meant with opposites 20:37 I'm not going to lie, autoexplore is the main reason I started playing nh4 and fh 20:37 It literally applies only to my identity as it relates to nethack, which is completely online 20:37 in that way I was kinda surprised you enjoyed slex as much as you did 20:37 considering that you like fiqhack 20:38 I figured it was mutually exclusive 20:38 but guess not 20:38 <@mtf> haha 20:38 <@mtf> well, another thing you have to consider 20:38 <@luxidream> well. I pronounce xnethack as "crossnethack" so lmk if I'm wrong on that 20:38 <@mtf> is that I'm only one game in 20:38 <@mtf> and I think I got really lucky already with that armor of erebor drop 20:38 <@riker> lol I pronounce it x-nethack 20:38 <@riker> "ecks nethack" 20:38 <@mtf> so it feels pretty fair so far 20:38 <@riker> @mtf absofuckinglutely 20:38 I'm like @riker 20:38 <@mtf> but I"m resistant to literally everything 20:38 <@mtf> so... 20:38 @mtf yeah that slex game you have has given you ridiculous luck 20:38 <@riker> no, literally just 3 things 20:38 not only the armor stuff... you got not a single resist when IDing stuff 20:39 <@luxidream> I didn't like the fetish stuff in slex. poor taste 20:39 <@riker> magic, fire, and cold 20:39 usually things resist like 80% of the time 20:39 <@riker> ^ 20:39 when IDing 20:39 <@mtf> @riker I have reflection too 20:39 <@riker> >_< 20:39 <@mtf> got it from iron boots lel 20:39 <@mtf> but I also pwned a bones level with some good shit 20:39 <@mtf> I still need holy water 20:39 <@mtf> to mass ID everything 20:40 <@mtf> I think that's kind of why I"m avoiding it right now, getting that holy water seems like a hassle right now (god is pissed apparently) 20:40 watch mtf get a mass ID including container content on his first blessed ID scroll 20:40 <@mtf> not sure what I did as L, other than maybe attack few peacefuls in the mines early on 20:40 naturally without any resists 20:40 <@riker> no you don't need blessed id 20:40 <@riker> you need inventory id scroll 20:40 <@mtf> does blessed ID do crazy shit? 20:40 <@luxidream> mtf steps on a wishing trap 20:40 mass-ID in slex works inside containers 20:40 <@mtf> oooh that sounds like a nice trap 20:40 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) destroyed Lich, the Fiend of Earth, on T:31191 20:40 <@mtf> excellent 20:40 <@riker> mtf no 20:41 <@riker> but inventory id works great 20:41 @luxidream riker is correct on this one 20:41 <@riker> it always does that >_> 20:41 <@mtf> I don't think I have inv ID 20:41 <@mtf> but I do have identify 20:41 <@mtf> I should still bless those, right? 20:41 you probably have invn ID 20:41 <@mtf> I think have a bunch 20:41 I don't think it's that rare 20:41 *inv ID 20:41 then again, I was very confused when I learned that paper mario ttyd's x-nauts were intended to be pronounced "cross-nauts" 20:41 <@riker> ^ 20:41 you just don't know about it 20:41 <@luxidream> wait what 20:41 <@mtf> huh 20:41 <@luxidream> that ruins my entire childhood 20:42 <@mtf> FIQ you are enticing me to play slex 20:42 [hdf-us] [dnh] Kame (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed Kary, the Fiend of Fire, on T:31273 20:42 not deliberately, but I can see it yeah 20:42 <@mtf> lolll 20:42 but it is up to you 20:42 I still want to see you stream slex some day 20:42 weekend, next week, or next year 20:42 <@mtf> I was kinda considering it this weekend 20:42 <@riker> brb streaming slex /s 20:42 <@mtf> not today though, I'm relaxing tonight hehe 20:43 streaming != relaxing? :P 20:43 <@mtf> well I gotta be at least moderately entertaining during the stream, right? 20:43 if streaming doesn't feel relaxing to you, maybe it's a bad idea to... 20:43 I suppose 20:43 <@luxidream> I mean it's not like slex is that hardcore, unless you actually expect to win 20:43 <@mtf> I expect to win 20:43 you know slex has a mandatory 100-floor dungeon 20:43 after getting the AMulet 20:43 right 20:44 <@mtf> I don't know anything about this game lol 20:44 <@mtf> but that sounds sweet 20:44 <@mtf> It's like the towerclimb of nethack 20:44 you thought ADOM SIL was bad 20:44 oh but I think you need to climb both ways 20:44 <@mtf> man I've realized high level SIL is actually pretty interesting 20:44 less sure on that though 20:44 and you can probably dig down 20:44 if you do need to 20:44 <@mtf> when you start getting crazy tension rooms of titans and crazy monsters 20:45 <@mtf> what, can't level port? 20:45 <@mtf> oh I guess you have the ammy riht 20:45 <@mtf> right* 20:45 with the Amulet? 20:45 no 20:45 and Amy fixed branchport skip 20:45 iirc I was the one who told her ho wto 20:45 *how to 20:45 <@luxidream> well thanks FIQ 20:45 well she asked 20:46 <@mtf> what's branchport skip? 20:46 @luxidream what ruined your entire childhood 20:46 <@riker> steed carries amuelt mtf 20:46 3.4.3 bug, discovered by ais523, someone whose name I Forgot, and me 20:46 <@luxidream> cross-nauts 20:46 <@luxidream> what 20:46 after a talk in #NetHack 20:46 oh 20:46 basically 20:46 ride a steed 20:46 who holds the Amulet 20:46 and you can branchport 20:46 similarly, and cleverly, TEC-XX can be read as TEC-Double-Cross. 20:47 carrying the steed with you 20:47 <@mtf> lol sweet 20:48 <@luxidream> any major role changes in xnethack aside from wiz 20:48 @mtf today I saw someone mentioning that he/she plays fh a bunch on reddit that I didn't know who it was 20:48 that was cool 20:48 <@mtf> hell yea man 20:48 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:64792 20:48 <@mtf> FH continues to spread 20:48 I've introduced a few friends to FIQHack 20:48 @luxidream nope, though the spellcasting system changes affect all casters 20:48 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:64797 20:48 <@mtf> FIQ: you need to get fiqhack a website 20:49 One of them plays on the EU server sometimes 20:49 <@riker> u got this grass 20:49 <@luxidream> oh, that's disappointing 20:49 @mtf the github page isn't enough? 20:49 MiseryMyra: winsalot? 20:49 <@mtf> no standard user wants to look through a github 20:49 @mtf pff 20:49 seriously though 20:49 <@mtf> I'm talking for the people that want to click one button and download your game 20:49 yeah I have considered setting up a website 20:49 @luxidream Not a whole lot of role-related YANIs, proportionally speaking. 20:50 making a site superior to nethack.org shouldn't be hard 20:50 <@mtf> lol exactly 20:50 figured it'd receive basically no traffic 20:50 so I should be able to get away with just hosting it on my VPS 20:50 <@mtf> yea probably, at least initially 20:50 One project I want to get around to is make a mockup replacement nethack.org that contains all the same information but presents it much better, and show it to the devteam 20:50 either I could use hack.fiq.se 20:51 or buy fiqhack.something 20:51 <@mtf> is fiqhack.com taken? lol 20:51 doubt it 20:51 <@mtf> nope 20:51 <@mtf> it's not 20:51 hmm that's weird 20:51 I went to www.com 20:51 that's usually where you go to register stuff 20:51 it's an ad-ridden site 20:51 Her username is churine 20:51 lol 20:51 <@mtf> FIQ: use google domains 20:51 So, not winsalot 20:52 @mtf I was considering binero.se 20:52 it's where I have fiq.se 20:52 figured it'd be most convenient to have it there too 20:52 <@mtf> I mean fiqhack.se would be fine too 20:52 binero.se can give .com too 20:52 it's not .se-specific 20:52 <@mtf> true 20:52 <@mtf> dude 20:52 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:51993 20:53 just checked 20:53 <@mtf> I just realize that if you google fiqhack, my knight win is like the 5th link 20:53 fiqhack.com would be 119SEK/year 20:53 on binero.se 20:53 <@mtf> that's like 20 bucks right? 20:53 that's $14.46 20:53 in US monies 20:53 <@mtf> lol, there you go, perfect use for my donation 20:53 Heh 20:53 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:52003 20:53 Yeah I suppose 20:54 will see about making a site some day shortterm, at least before I push a second release (was thinking July, after inevitable junethack bug fixes) 20:54 <@mtf> yea man you don't need anything crazy 20:54 right 20:55 <@mtf> pretty much if it looks better than nethack.org you'll be set lol 20:55 haha 20:55 <@riker> that'snot hard 20:55 if hdf wasn't a thing I'd probably host a server on it too 20:55 but now I don't want to split things up from hdf 20:55 so yeah 20:55 <@mtf> if you need some media, link mine or others' VODS 20:55 (could link to hdf obviously, though) 20:55 <@mtf> or take some pics 20:55 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:52015 20:55 <@mtf> I think hdf as a hub is awesome 20:56 I took a bunch of screenshots for my first release 20:56 They weren't masterpieces but did the job I think 20:56 <@mtf> and I'm super happy k2 changed his mind about the discord bridge 20:56 <@mtf> this channel has been great 20:56 heh 20:56 yeah it has been nice 20:56 it's still a bit awkward IMO that nicklists aren't shared 20:56 but eh, not much you can do, it works fine as-is :P 20:59 <@mtf> what we need 20:59 <@mtf> is some command that just lists the current users 20:59 <@mtf> ofc, that doesn't work for discord 20:59 on IRC? 20:59 <@riker> yea I think k2 shot that down tho 20:59 <@mtf> cause we have 1k people on at any time 20:59 <@riker> I brought it up yesteday or smth 20:59 <@mtf> ah 21:00 @mtf it should be done through the bot 21:00 <@mtf> ofc, but what users would I list for the IRC folks? 21:00 and K2 shouldn't have an issue with it if it's done right (which means totally transparent from IRC) 21:00 <@mtf> every one of our members can post in this channel 21:00 <@mtf> so it'd probably list them all lol 21:00 not sure if it's needed for the IRC side tbh 21:01 discord people ca nbe highlighted even when offline 21:01 <@mtf> yea 21:01 and it's nothing unusual for IRC users to wait hours for a response 21:01 Right now there are 39 people on the IRC side. 21:01 due to someone being afk 21:01 <@riker> there are at least 1100 on this side 21:01 <@riker> >_> 21:02 <@riker> not counting invisible people 21:02 IMO, there should be a way to proxy /whois through the bot. 21:02 <@mtf> then yea, we could get a user list for the discord side... possibly just have the bot poll the channels it's in 21:02 <@riker> like me 21:02 <@mtf> right? 21:02 To get publicly available info about a user like how long they've been idle. 21:02 Anyone on IRC can go /whois jonadab jonadab and find out, among other things, how many days, hours, mins, secs I've been idle (i.e., since I last spoke). 21:03 Maybe the account and ircname fields could also be proxied through. 21:04 The other info (such as which freenode server I'm connected via and whether I am using SSL or not) is probably less relevant to proxy through. 21:04 <@mtf> yea but I'd rather hear about the entire list of members rather than querying for a specific member 21:04 OH, so /who ? 21:04 the only one who really does need such a feature is the discord side 21:04 because IRC users that aren't online will simply not see the messages 21:04 the solution is not !names from Beholder 21:04 mass-highlights would piss off everyone 21:04 the solution is changing rld to handle this 21:04 via a pin 21:04 <@mtf> that works? 21:04 That can get pretty long. 21:04 was the issue I linked about that a while back ever looked at I wonder 21:04 github issue, that is 21:05 <@mtf> wow fiq your messages just all came through at once 21:05 wow, fired up minecraft for the first time in over a year 21:05 yeah, similar thing happened here with your ones 21:05 splash text: "I miss ADOM!" 21:05 probably a freenode server acting up 21:05 <@mtf> aos: notch tried to give TB 50k for ADOM 21:05 FIQ: No, your messages hit freenode all at once too. 21:05 <@riker> aosdict: lol 21:05 <@mtf> but wasn't able to due to problems w/ indie gogo and the govt. 21:05 jonadab: yes, exactly 21:05 <@riker> I've been palying dnh locally while I wait for ftb to boot up myself :D 21:06 if that happened due to my connection, I would have been killed off 21:06 for flood 21:06 Ah. 21:06 Right. 21:06 so I figured a freenode server was to blame 21:06 So near-netsplit then. 21:06 yeah 21:06 @mtf there is an IRC command called /names 21:07 [hdf-us] [xnh] Luxidream (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 3174 points, T:2228, killed by Mr. Annootok; the shopkeeper 21:07 really the bot just needs to forward that 21:07 and update its post when it changes 21:07 <@mtf> /names 21:07 and the post is pinned 21:07 simple 21:07 yeah that is not going to work 21:07 <@mtf> hehe 21:07 <@mtf> no I agree, an auto updating pin would be nice 21:07 You wouldn't want it to work in any substantial channel. 21:08 01:07:35 ℹ │ Nicks #hardfought: [...] 21:08 01:07:35 ℹ │ Channel #hardfought: 39 nicks (4 ops, 8 voices, 27 normals) 21:08 <@mtf> yea 21:08 This channel is small enough it would be almost tolerable. 21:08 But it's not a general solution. 21:08 jonadab: the idea is to have a post that the bot constantly updates 21:08 when it changes 21:08 and the post can be pinned on Discord 21:08 Ah. 21:09 that way, people can look at the pinned posts 21:09 to get what is effectively a nicklist 21:09 for the IRC side 21:09 Would it be collapsable? 21:09 It would need to be collapsable. 21:09 pinned posts are hidden 21:09 it's just a popup 21:09 Ah, ok. 21:09 if you ask for them 21:09 (by clicking on a button)= 21:09 -= 21:10 hm 21:12 afk sleep 21:12 bye 21:12 <@mtf> yea pins would be the perfect place for it 21:12 <@mtf> later FIQ 21:12 <@riker> cya fiq 21:15 [hdf-us] [nh4] cpittman (Val Hum Fem Neu), 37387 points, T:3150, killed by a soldier ant, while frozen by a spellbook 21:28 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 21:31 -!- Tariru has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:33 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:52571 21:33 [hdf-us] [xnh] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:52576 21:34 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed Baalzebub, on T:65439 21:35 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed the invisible Geryon, on T:65448 21:40 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:65579 21:44 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 21:49 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:65808 21:51 [hdf-us] [nh4] SPAMMMM (Luxidream) (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 26601 points, T:2143, killed by a gnome, while sleeping 21:53 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 21:57 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:66051 22:02 FIQhack updated (us and eu) 22:02 K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-23 20:27 EDT: fh updated 22:10 <@mtf> oh goody 22:12 242 22:12 <@mtf> yes aos I agree 22:22 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:20276 22:40 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 22:41 -!- stenno is now known as Guest99610 22:45 -!- Guest99610 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03 [hdf-us] [dnh] Rune (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed magic marker", on T:39000 23:09 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 23:13 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed Yeenoghu, on T:66988 23:16 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) entered the Planes, on T:67081 23:16 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:67082 23:26 [hdf-us] [fh] MTF (mtf) (Ran Hum Mal Cha), 60262 points, T:16267, killed by a Mr. Izchak, the shopkeeper's wand 23:26 <@mtf> lol, wow3 23:26 <@mtf> there goes a game 23:26 <@mtf> fucking rangers 23:26 <@mtf> shot an arrow past an enemy and hit a guard =/ 23:26 <@mtf> watchman, that is 23:27 rip 23:27 <@mtf> the izchak decided it was time for me to die 23:41 [hdf-us] [xnh] krm26 (Arc Hum Fem Neu) polymorphed her first object, on T:36049 23:42 I shall play FIQhack to quell my thirst for hacks! 23:44 <@mtf> great plan 23:48 Have fun 23:51 [hdf-us] [nd] koumakan (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 168 points, T:768, killed by a dwarf 23:53 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed Death, on T:67350 23:54 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed Death, on T:67364 23:55 [hdf-us] [slex] Elronnd (Wiz Rod Mal Neu) killed the cruel abuser of dolores, the former Sadist, on T:1205 23:56 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed Death, on T:67390 23:56 -!- hpardis has joined #hardfought 23:57 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed the invisible Pestilence, on T:67415 23:59 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Rog Orc Fem Cha) killed the invisible Pestilence, on T:67430