00:34 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:35 [hdf-us] [xnh] k2 (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 65124 points, T:27712, killed by the invisible Dark One 00:35 lol 00:35 :O 00:36 ...seriously? isn't he a wimpy wimp? 00:36 lost my CoMR to changing into a werewolf 00:36 no MR 00:36 what happened in the 3000 turns between then 00:36 kept getting stunned, items cursed (including my unihorn) 00:37 so basically fucked 00:38 couldnt attack for shit 00:38 couldnt see him 00:38 just a bad situation 00:38 stupid' 00:38 and screwed up my chance to streak 00:38 couldn't see him? so my idea to give him a special raven-summoning attack is bad? :P 00:39 i had telepathy but no way to cover my eyes 00:40 just really really stupid 00:40 but i lost my MR on the portal level, no way i was going to storm the castle without MR 00:40 so quest it was 00:42 * aosdict tries to remember what people wanted fixed in xnethack the most 00:42 as I am now finished with doors 00:42 water traps on doors. fix that 00:43 oh and of course the thiefstone bit... 00:44 I would love to go to bed, but unfortunately I just discovered that the dryer with my wet sheets in it did not in fact spend the last hour drying them. so I get to wait for that. 00:44 or are you talking about vanilla behavior fixed 00:44 No, the water trap wetting is probably the most in demand thing 00:45 oh and this is the big one from my last game - no co-aligned altar anywhere, or even an unattended one for me to sac for magicbane 00:46 just a bad luck game from the get go 00:46 Well that can just happen... not really a thing to fix 00:47 wasnt suggesting that as something to fix 00:48 i'm venting 00:48 damn what happened to my armor? most of it is gone 00:48 destroy armor spell? 00:48 can the dark one disentigrate armor like a golden naga? 00:49 Since he spellcasts, probably. 00:49 see, no one ever knows because 999/1000 times they have MR 00:58 ok since objects are a singly-linked list it's very hard to produce an algorithm that will *guarantee* it will wet no more than N items of your inventory, and do so completely at random 00:58 s/completely at random/with equal probability for each item/ 01:05 [hdf-us] [gh] 3zigma (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 638 points, T:1704, killed by a large mimic 01:10 well, today I learned about reservoir sampling 01:12 good or bad 01:12 it's the algorithm that solves this particular problem, or rather a generalization of this particular problem 01:17 goin to bed 02:13 -!- _catalyst_ has joined #hardfought 02:27 -!- Menche_ has joined #hardfought 02:28 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:43 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 02:43 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 02:52 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 02:53 -!- stenno is now known as Guest29808 02:57 -!- Guest29808 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:04 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:00 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 04:21 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 04:22 -!- stenno is now known as Guest14486 04:51 You fall into an open grave! It's a little early for that, isn't it? 04:51 heh 05:07 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:12 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 05:50 I thought I was eating a wolf corpse 05:50 it wasn't 05:50 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:56 oops 06:10 -!- ezigma has quit [] 06:11 <[Demo]> hmm 06:11 <[Demo]> i think it could be interesting to rename all unique monsters 06:16 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 06:16 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 06:37 -!- hpardis has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:39 [hdf-us] [nd] Eleven (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:46409 06:39 haha, Rodney's having a rough time right now! 06:53 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 06:54 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:56 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:56 -!- elenmirie_ is now known as elenmirie 06:57 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 07:14 hello 1st day of spring. thank you for being 1 degree F outside this morning 07:14 go elenmirie go! 07:14 * elenmirie goes 07:16 -!- emar has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0-dev] 07:27 -!- emar has joined #hardfought 07:29 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:31 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 07:31 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 07:32 [hdf-us] [nd] Eleven (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:47860 07:43 [hdf-us] [nd] Eleven (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:48353 07:45 yay! go elenmirie! 07:45 I'm still doing the quest in slow stages 07:46 doesn't help that a chest trap zapped my ring of teleport control (and of course I've got teleportitis) and in all the chests in the graveyard there wasn't a single replacement 07:46 but! this amulet that something death-dropped is reflection! 07:47 I spent most of this game with uncontrolled teleportitis... only found a ring of TC just before the castle 07:47 and ID'd it at the same time I ID'd the wand... that was going to be my first wish (after scrolls of charging, of course) 07:51 You see here an uncursed samurai corpse named elenmirie. 07:51 (all the ghosts are me, all the corpses seem to be you) 07:51 heh 07:51 3 samurai corpses and a wizard corpse, all named elenmirie 07:52 oh, and a priestess corpse named Raisse 07:53 with the unfortunate loot behaviour it's easier to cast knock at chests than to use a key 07:53 it's not as if I'm using all that power for anything else now I can't cast identify 07:54 what's the unfortunate loot behaviour? 07:54 with combination menu, stand on a chest, try to apply key 07:55 it asks whether to apply the chest, then you have to decline it and apply the key to the chest 07:55 that's 4 extra nonintuitive keystrokes 07:55 ah... I don't use that setting so I haven't seen that 07:55 also when you're standing on a chest and want to open your bag, then you get asked if you want to apply the chest first 07:56 yep, that's annoying 07:56 is that 361 or xnh? 07:56 I don't think having opening chests under 'apply' is the right change 07:56 x 07:56 right 07:56 (which I otherwise like a lot)_ 07:56 that and the lack of the identify spell are my major annoyances 07:57 lack of identify spell is annoying, but I rather like the changes to the way ID scrolls work 07:57 I *would* like a full-inventory identify occasionally 07:57 you know exactly what you're going to get (as long as you know BUC status of the scroll) 07:57 yeah, it would be nice to have a small chance of that with a blessed scroll 07:58 or something like that 07:58 You read: "Are we all being disintegrated, or is it just me?". 07:58 I like that one 07:58 hah 08:00 What do you want to read? [eDIL or ?*] ? 08:00 that's the online Irish dictionary my daughter uses 08:00 literally spelt eDIL 08:00 (electronic Dictionary of the Irish Language) 08:06 [hdf-us] [nd] Eleven (Kni Hum Fem Law) entered the Planes, on T:49445 08:06 A tower of flame erupts from the floor under the wraith! The wraith turns to flee. 08:06 I don't blame it 08:06 [hdf-us] [nd] Eleven (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:49449 08:06 \o/ 08:06 artifactless and petless :D 08:07 ooh 08:07 yay elenmirie! 08:07 ty! 08:07 wooo hooo 08:11 the scoreboard doesn't report the new conducts 08:13 not suprised, I dont think Mandevil was aware of them. he'd have to account for them manually for that variant 08:13 right, it would be nice if it showed it, but whatever 08:14 oh i agree. just need to know which conduct flags to read and what they mean 08:14 aosdict ^^ 08:14 FIQ: things like people eating the wrong food off the floor are why I think it needs to be shown in the ? menu. 08:15 Also I would probably consider raisse's gripes with the chest applying thing to be a bug. 08:16 K2: I included the new conducts... if they are not showing, it's a bug. 08:16 lost the Sceptre of Might and didn't notice until I'd chased Nalzok to the temple level 08:16 elenmirie: Removing the small chance of full-inventory ID is the entire point here; if you still have that, then there's still an incentive for players to hoard everything in a stash where they can read a bunch of blessed ID scrolls. 08:17 then got surrounded by 2 cockatrices and an Olog-hai and an carnivorous ape, wanted to kill a c but couldn't with my gloved hands 08:17 ah, ok, that's not the way I play 08:17 what happened to the Sceptre? 08:18 :( 08:18 did he steal it? 08:18 yes, he must have 08:18 raisse at least you didnt die to The Dark One... 08:18 * K2 looks around at nothing in particular 08:18 usually nalzok is a pushover but that's because I tend to have free action at that point 08:18 I've been killed by Nalzok before 08:19 same 08:19 iirc, I used #turn while he was around, which was a big mistake 08:19 i splatted to the dark one about 7 hrs ago 08:19 no MR 08:19 eep 08:19 yeah it got real stupid real quick 08:20 I mistakenly ate a doppelganger corpse this game... I'd just killed a wolf on the same spot and thought the gray corpse was that 08:20 and broke my comr 08:20 fortunately I had a spare 08:20 it started going downhill for me when I lost teleport control to a chest trap 08:21 otherwise things could have got pretty bad 08:21 chest traps can be a serious pain 08:21 yes, it's so tempting to use #turn but there are usually *some* & around 08:21 (and with the new colours of & I don't always know what they are) 08:22 yes... I like that they are more varied though 08:22 yes! 08:22 I don't remember what the green one was but I liked the lightcyan marilith 08:22 agreed 08:22 pitfiends are black now wooo 08:23 as black as the pits! 08:23 Why all this recoloring? 08:24 also, in that game, I got level drained a lot because I chose to keep my comr rather than have MC3 08:24 Mandevil: because there were so many red and brown & that it was hard to tell them apart? 08:24 yeah that. the monstor colors in xnethack actually make sense 08:25 Mandevil: demons literally came only in magenta, red, and brown. 08:25 and white! 08:25 and grey! 08:25 and purple! 08:25 Oh yeah right. 08:25 aosdict: See? 08:25 aosdict: They come in all colours! 08:25 But there were still about 6 or 8 of them on red. 08:25 OK, I fixed the new xnh conducts thing. 08:25 Now you're properly credited, elenmirie. 08:26 hm, shall I do another priestess or the traditional gnome wiz to see what wizard spellcasting does? 08:26 I'm also contemplating moving demons to I, which is a change FIQ wants to make. 08:26 oh yay, thanks Mandevil! 08:26 why? 08:26 I? 08:26 I mean why does he want to change that? aren't & scary enough? 08:26 raisse: do orc wiz, so you can be first to ascend one! 08:26 Mandevil: arti = artifactless, artl = artiwishless? 08:26 aosdict: The other way. 08:27 Oh, my font makes it hard to distinguish i and l. 08:27 Yeah, I realized that it is really almost undistinguishable. 08:27 maybe atls and ptls for those two? 08:27 argh, didn't realise role is in my rc so now I'm a priestess again 08:27 raisse: There's some flavor basis (I for Infernal), and it would allow all the demon lords to be uniquely colored & 08:28 well, she'll probably die to somethign stupid anyway 08:28 aosdict: DCSS has demons as 1,2,3,4,5. 08:28 1 the top tier, 5 the lowest rank. 08:28 I guess that would interfere with warning in NetHack. 08:29 Well, Nethack has few enough demons and lords alike that they can fit into two monster letters. 08:31 Well, there's also 'i'. 08:31 Which would be 5 in DCSS. 08:32 lol, I tried to sit on a \ but it was a blue one and my rump got wet 08:32 lol 08:33 Water loo :) 08:33 you see here a train station 08:35 ok Napoleon 08:40 oh wow four spellbooks 08:41 there are enough scrolls and rings and wands in the dungeon that I probably won't miss those 08:44 [hdf-us] [nd] Eleven (Kni Hum Fem Law) averted death, on T:49655 08:51 -!- emberquill has joined #hardfought 08:52 yay, a general store 08:52 -!- emberquill has quit [Client Quit] 08:52 in the previous game there were 2 armor stores on level 2 and 3, and a tiny bookshop and Izchak's in minetown, and that was it 08:58 I like bugbears in 'o' 09:09 An expensive camera shatters into a thousand pieces! The picture-painting demon is released! 09:09 Yes, I put bugbears in the o mlet in Fourk. 09:10 [hdf-us] [nh] karlos (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 2444 points, T:1715, killed by a bolt of fire 09:10 That seems to be where the lore I looked up on the web suggests they belong. 09:10 Hmm, that might be a 4.3.0.5 change though, not sure. 09:10 they're more like hobgoblins and Uruk-hai than like dwarves and hobbits, yes 09:11 I may move owlbears to U as well. Once I implement other bears. 09:11 Which is held back mostly on "I don't want to try to draw pixel art for those." 09:11 ah yes, that makes sense too 09:12 also letters with only one monster in them are silly 09:12 Current thinking is black bear, owlbear, brown bear, grizzly bear, ice bear (i.e. polar bear), dire bear, werebear. 09:12 Well, I mean, originally all the letters had one monster in them. 09:12 the Dutch word for polar bear is ijsbeer = ice bear 09:12 But as more monsters were added, it seems like nobody was thinking about keeping them balanced. 09:13 (The mlets, I mean.) 09:13 raisse: Ah, not surprising. The Japanese word for them translates as "white bear", IIRC. 09:14 But given how much time they spend on the ice, "ice bear" makes very good sense. 09:14 And seems more suitable for the fantasy setting than "polar bear", which has a modern sound to it. 09:15 My thinking for bears is that they will be solitary and relatively fast. 09:15 did a new version appear while I was upstairs doing some laundry?? 09:15 I can't eat anything from the floor any more 09:15 nope 09:15 it asks whether to eat it, and when I say yes, "You don't have anything else to eat" 09:15 THat is odd. 09:15 Is this 361-dev? 09:15 no, xnh 09:16 Ah. 09:16 Doesn't x use e, for that? 09:16 Unix xNetHack Version 0.1.0 - last build Sat Mar 17 12:56:20 2018. 09:16 raisse: Can you do it again? 09:16 (Shouldn't it?) 09:16 are you watching? 09:16 yes 09:16 (And in which case, shouldn't the "Do you want to" prompt go away?) 09:16 okay, I'm standing on a fortune cookie 09:17 that's after pressing 'e' 09:17 that's after pressing 'y' 09:17 [hdf-us] [nh4] cpittman (Val Dwa Fem Law), 73953 points, T:41053, killed by brainlessness 09:17 that's okay for fortune cookies but I see problems in my future when I want to eat dragon corpses 09:17 and with menustyle to what? 09:17 combination 09:18 hm, it worked here, and I shouldn't have changed anything related to that 09:18 don't say I shouldn't use that, the option is there 09:18 my priestess game was okay with that too 09:18 I'm *so* not going to eat *that* gnome corpse 09:19 I'm perfectly able to eat stuff off the ground locally... let me try on hdf 09:19 with "full" I can eat off the floor with , but it doesn't say what it is 09:19 same on hdf, I ate this apple off the floor 09:20 suppose there's a c corpse or soemthing tainted as well as somehting you do want to eat? 09:20 it's annoying that you don't see what it is 09:20 Oh, right, xnethack doesn't have "things that are here" 09:20 (But yes, I think NH4 also gives you a menu when you e,) 09:21 x doesn't, it didn't give me a choice (probably because the hobbit corpse was the only edible thing) 09:21 Part of the problem is that I don't know what the menustyles are actually supposed to _be_. 09:21 and with ? I only got edibles in my inventory 09:21 But I still can't reproduce what you're seeing. 09:21 I can't see anything else, sorry! 09:22 Yes, I want FIQ to add that to the getobj patch. 09:22 hi 09:22 Hello FIQ, Welcome to #hardfought 09:22 ah, "traditional" does give a list 09:22 oh, now I remember why I don't use traditional, far too many prompts 09:24 Isn't "traditional" the one that is designed to mimick NetHack 2.x ? 09:24 I don't know! didn't start playing until 3.1.3 09:24 jonadab: nh4 does not have a menu if thereis1 floor obj 09:25 I am on phone 09:25 "full" does say that it's there, and it does ask 09:25 FIQ: Ah. It likely should. 09:25 er, no, it does say it's there, you have to use , to eat it, but it DOES NOT ask 09:25 Because yes, two corpses on the floor, one of which you want to eat for an intrinsic, the other is unsafe, and a monster keeps interrupting you, so you keep hitting e, to finish it... 09:25 menustyle is tied to loot menus 09:25 which is a Bad Thing imo 09:25 it changes ehaviour of them 09:26 now trying "partial" (which I predict I won't like either) 09:26 raisse: It shouldn't ask yes/no questions ever. 09:26 etobj only uses 2 menustyle set 09:26 yes/no questions are bad UI, because Microsoft has trained users to just monkey-bang the keyboard when that happens. 09:26 but it should! it should ask "eat it?" 09:26 tings 09:27 full and anything else 09:27 I haven't used Microsoft for more than 20 years so I didn't get that training 09:27 look at me doing the same thing with combination in 361dev 09:27 put a melon on the floor 09:28 it is objectively bad ui 09:28 but I added menustyle behaviour 09:28 for purists 09:28 It would be _somewhat_ more exceptable if "y" and "n" were not assigned to commonly-used actions. 09:28 But they ARE. 09:28 Because the Rogue developers didn't think that one through. 09:28 And now all roguelikes use hjklyubn and we are stuck with it. 09:29 that's why I'm advising all newbies not to put their c corpse in the 'y' slot 09:29 (or their lizard corpse either) 09:29 Actually, NH4 tries not to put comestibles in general in the y slot. 09:29 that's a good thing 09:29 als 09:29 aosdict: 09:30 what dit me to add 09:30 partial tells me the thing is there, at least 09:30 did you want me to 09:30 and lets me eat it with , 09:31 I think the annoyance will come when I do anything (at all) with inventory 09:31 FIQ: if you're given , in the list of things to take an action with, it doesn't show up in the menu when you hit ? 09:31 which is weird because I thought one of your screenshots had that 09:31 I'll try next time I kill something edible 09:31 ok 09:32 I will add that 09:32 amd mo it did not 09:32 also if you have any idea what's causing raisse's "You do not have anything else to eat" woes 09:32 however 09:32 now, of course, I'm not killing anything edible 09:32 I can only list a single item 09:32 or the cat gets it before I do 09:33 floor wise 09:33 because lettes are reserved for inventory 09:33 Yeah, and you can't use , . < or > either. 09:33 I can use , 09:34 No, comma means "select everything from this menu" 09:34 this is a pick one menu 09:34 I can use , too but IT DOESN'T SHOW WHAT IT IS so if it's a red dragon *and* a chickatrice corpse how do I know which one I'm biting down on? 09:34 if there are two things, do you get a menu then? 09:34 um 09:35 if there is more than 1 choice 09:35 that's the way it works for me (but I'm using "full" menu) 09:35 it gives a menu 09:35 yes, it does, true 09:35 haven't had the situation yet since I noticed I couldn't eat off the floor any more 09:35 it behaves like nh4 09:36 but I still don't like the fact that it doesn't show what you're about to eat so that you can change your mind (that's how I accidentally ate a doppelganger recently) 09:36 two edible things under my feet: 09:36 How about this: if you type , in the prompt, it ALWAYS gives a menu, even if there's one thing there. 09:36 full: get a menu 09:36 should it show a menu 09:36 even if there is just 1 choice 09:36 partial: you get asked every object in turn y/n 09:36 Yes, IMO. 09:36 traditional: like partial 09:37 [hdf-us] [nh] karlos (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 1889 points, T:1928, killed by a mind flayer 09:37 raisse: that is how it works yes 09:37 full behaves one wayother options the other way 09:37 and now I get the old (that I'm used to) behavior with combination, after changing to all other things in turn! 09:37 that's probably a very silly bug I ran into 09:38 aosdict: IMO, it should always show a menu, even if there is just one choice, yes. 09:38 next time if I can't eat corpses without picking them up I'll change it back and forth a few times and see if that solves it 09:38 * raisse is baffled 09:38 Ugh, water_damage and water_damage_chain are mutually recursive. 09:39 aosdict: That's intentional. 09:39 [hdf-us] [nh] karlos (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 10 points, T:40, fell onto a sink 09:39 you mentoned setting menustye to full a while back 09:39 menustyle goes into the save 09:39 that is why it behaved like that 09:39 no, I have combination in my rc, and only changed it to full to test behaviour 09:39 jonadab: It's annoying if you want to water damage a fixed number of random inventory items, but not wet everything in a carried container. 09:40 did you change back 09:40 so it started out as combination, and it is now combination again after having been everything else 09:40 yes 09:40 as I said 09:40 it goes into the save 09:40 ok 09:40 it was combination when I started this game 09:40 then I couldn't eat off the floor 09:40 I changed it to all the other things 09:40 then I could eat off the floor but with only 1 object there not safely 09:40 tell me if it happens again 09:41 then I changed it back to combination and it works normal (well, what I think of as normal) 09:41 aosdict: set the container down on land before you jump in the water? 09:41 yes, will do 09:41 (Yes, yes, I know "you" in this context means the programmer.) 09:41 jonadab: I am fixing the water bucket trap, and the solution so far works very well except for containers 09:42 why did you make detect monsters level 3? 09:42 iirc fh refactors water damage 09:42 (please don't say "balance" because the parser in my brain translates that to "nerf" immediately) 09:42 nerf 09:42 so, why? 09:43 why was the nerf necessary? 09:43 idk 09:43 Because detect monsters is more powerful than some other spells in its school? 09:43 It was rather cheap to get renewable intrinsic detect monsters at the low cost of 5 Pw every few dozen turns. 09:43 maybe to nottrivialize monster visi 09:43 on 09:43 surprised sleep spell wasnt raised to lvl 2 or 3 09:44 aosdict: add spell maintenance 09:44 Actually, that's probably a consumable/renewable problem, and the spell shouldn't provide intrinsic detect monsters for more than a few turns. 09:44 aosdict: Hmm, lowering the duration would've had a similar effect on Pw cost when maintaining, though, wouldn't it? 09:45 K2: Given its utility, the spell of sleep should probably be swapped with one of the other enchantment spells for level 1. 09:45 cause fear 09:46 oh, if cause fear was level 1 I'd actually use it 09:46 Yes... but then you would have to put up with sleep being level 3. 09:46 because it's the beginning chars who most need monsters off their back for a turn or two 09:47 I would, actually 09:47 I just don't think detect monsters is such a big deal that you need to be high(ish) level to cast it 09:48 Oh, hm. In my lesser/greater spells proposal I actually said that detect monsters should give temporary level-wide warning in lesser form. 09:48 sleep, on the other hand, is actually really powerful 09:48 Sleep is powerful, yes. 09:48 Charm monster is crazy OP. 09:49 should it be level 4 or even 5? 09:49 It's 6 in xnh. 09:51 oh! my late priestess knew it, but she wasn't casting at all (wearing mithril) 09:52 jonadab: Okay, I'm going with adding a fourth argument to water_damage_chain that makes it ignore containers - probably the most generic way to do it 09:54 charm monster should probably be at least level 5, yes. 09:54 Whereas, dig should probably be level 1 or at most 2. 09:54 Because, woot, it is almost as powerful as a faster-acting pick-axe that can't break boulders or statues. 09:55 ooh nice, vapor effect from a potion this gnome was carrying 09:55 jonadab: If it's that cheap, then wands of digging should be rarer. 09:55 you could start with no longer having minotaurs carry them 09:55 aosdict: That's easy: replace most of the mazes in Gehennom with things that aren't mazes. 09:55 raisse: which vapor effect? 09:56 detect monsters 09:56 Getting vapor effects symmetric is going to be a bit of a challenge. 09:56 It's probably enough if they are somewhat vaguely close to symetric. 09:57 If the exact duration doesn't match for the player versus monsters, that's _probably_ ok in most cases. 09:57 Ideally there should be three ways you interact with potions: drinking, breathing vapors, and getting it splashed on you (e.g. crash on your head and break into shards). 09:57 As long as the basic effect is similar enough. 09:58 I'm all for the vapor and splash effect lasting only one or two turns 09:58 jonadab: Well, this is mostly for potion based combat - you want vapors from offensive potions to be powerful enough to be worth using on monsters, but not so strong that they'll kill the player 09:58 aosdict: Assuming that throwing them reduces to some other entity interacting in one of those same three ways, sure. 09:58