00:01 [hdf-us] [un] cpittman (Bar Orc Mal Cha), 85543 points, T:17533, killed by a bolt of fire 00:01 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 00:01 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 00:04 [hdf-us] [nd] krm26 (Ran Hum Fem Cha), 23062 points, T:12608, killed by a bolt of lightning 00:06 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 00:06 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 00:09 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:11 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:12 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 00:12 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 00:12 <@riker> !tell Chris_ANG segfault and unrecoverable, inc pirate healing a coaligned priest (typo, meant myself) 00:12 Will do, @riker! 00:12 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Client Quit] 00:29 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:29 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 00:30 -!- APic has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:31 [hdf-us] [un] cpittman (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 850 points, T:4318, killed by an orc zombie 00:32 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:33 -!- _catalyst_ has joined #hardfought 00:35 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased +3 gray dragon scale mail", on T:7981 00:36 -!- APic has joined #hardfought 00:38 [hdf-us] [fh] MTF (mtf) (Val Hum Fem Law) killed the ghost of Naeroon, the former Woman-at-arms, on T:12781 00:54 [hdf-us] [un] cpittman (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 229 points, T:933, killed by a kobold zombie 01:01 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 01:01 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 01:31 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 01:31 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 01:41 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 01:41 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 01:44 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:49 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:54 [hdf-us] [fh] MTF (mtf) (Val Hum Fem Law), 73860 points, T:17075, killed by a soldier's wand 01:54 <@mtf> ow T.T 01:56 ! 01:56 LarienTelrunya: Message from aosdict at 2018-03-02 20:37 EST: slex monster idea: creates doors randomly where it walks, and will fix any broken doorway it passes through. Has permanent phase door. 01:56 LarienTelrunya: Message from @riker at 2018-03-04 12:35 EST: fiqhack explore command when 01:57 !tell riker what, "fiqhack explore command"? a command that lets you explore a FIQhack dungeon (where monsters will **** ******** *** **** *** ***) while you're playing slex? :P if you mean autoexplore: I will not taint slex with such a stupid feature that causes you to run willy-nilly into uncharted territory like it does in DCSS 01:57 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:12 aosdict: is "xnethack" the final name of your variant? (asking with regard to adding messages about it in slex :P) 02:13 also what the heck is up with those monster color changes, they will confuse *every* player coming from vanilla 02:19 aosdict: also, clearly the way to nerf the identify spell would be to make it work like slex, where it has a small chance of causing amnesia when cast, and then you can start identifying everything again because that's the dictionary definition of fun :D 02:22 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:29 also wut mind flayers are cyan in xnethack WUT 02:33 * Shades are recolored from nothing to black * Wraiths are recolored from black to gray * Barrow wights are recolored from gray to bright blue <--- way to confuse unwary players 02:54 SLEX FR: Monster colors are randomized. 02:54 And follow up FR: There's a trap that will cause the colors to re-randomize. 02:58 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 02:58 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 03:05 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:08 -!- _catalyst_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:11 FIQ: in your perpetual quest for full player/monster symmetry, do monsters in FIQhack already get "The door resists!" sometimes when they try to open a door? because in vanilla they simply always manage to open doors (and move into it on the same turn, which is something that you cannot do :D) 03:11 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 03:11 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 03:12 LarienTelrunya: iirc yes 03:12 not sure 03:13 I knoe I ficed themove and open at least 03:13 same with unlocking 03:13 fixed 03:13 -!- _catalyst_ has joined #hardfought 03:15 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:18 !who 03:18 FIQ: [hdf-us] DemoBot [nh] Grasshopper [nd] 03:18 FIQ: [hdf-eu] No current players 03:20 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 03:24 -!- _catalyst_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:25 -!- _catalyst_ has joined #hardfought 03:31 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Pri Hum Fem Neu) polymorphed her first item, on T:25780 03:37 -!- _catalyst_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:05 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:12 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:34 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 04:47 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:86822 04:47 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of genocide", on T:86823 04:47 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "7 blessed wax candles", on T:86845 04:47 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed wand of death", on T:86846 04:48 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "3 blessed scrolls of enchant armor", on T:86866 04:58 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:00 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:00 !tell K2 new attempt at fixing desync issues 05:00 Will do, FIQ! 05:03 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 05:03 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 05:03 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 05:03 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 05:11 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:18 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 05:18 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 05:42 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:59 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 06:01 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:01 -!- elenmirie_ is now known as elenmirie 06:02 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 06:10 -!- deadnoob_ has joined #hardfought 06:15 -!- aaron__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:50 [hdf-us] [gh] arnibald (Pri Hum Mal Neu) killed Orcus, on T:36968 06:56 -!- deadnoob_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:06 LarienTelrunya: it is probably the final name in the sense of ok I think I'll name my repository fiqhack, hopefully I'll come up with a better name before it's ready for some kind of release, or something 07:07 morning 07:07 K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-05 05:00 EST: new attempt at fixing desync issues 07:07 that is, I'm not too attached to the name (except I kind of already changed a lot of stuff in the code...) but haven't thought of or heard anything better 07:09 FIQhack updated (us and eu) 07:10 aosdict: call it confusionhack, because the monster color changes will confuse players ;) 07:11 I'm trying to think of what the most confusing change would be. 07:11 Mistaking a wraith for a barrow wight, perhaps. 07:12 But most of them will just be along the lines of "wait I don't recognize that, let me farlook it, oh it's a newt" 07:12 well, no one expects mind flayers to suddenly be cyan, it's ingrained in every nethacker's brain that "purple h = dangerous" and "differently colored h = cannon fodder" 07:12 LarienTelrunya: are you arguing that the color of (some) monsters is therefore fixed forever and can't ever be changed? 07:13 Mind flayers are also on the list of things that make you go "huh what is that I don't recognize it" 07:14 yes :P I mean, it's your variant, so you can of course do whatever you want, but expect a message or ten in slex about how it's ultra weird that l are suddenly newts and stuff instead of leprechauns 07:14 l are already newts in fourk 07:14 I would expect nothing less 07:15 I figured it was best to make large changes like monster colors *now* while I'm the only person playing this 07:15 K2: yeah, there's already messages in slex about the fourk change ;) of course, the slex perspective is completely different anyway, i.e. instead of removing monster classes, the ones that have only 1-2 members in vanilla have 50 or so in slex 07:17 someone also pointed out yesterday how slex smashes the entire point of being able to unambiguously identify a monster based on glyph, by adding so many to each monster class... 07:18 there's only 16 colors and only so many ASCII characters, so that's to be expected with over 18k monsters 07:18 but apart from dark blue monsters becoming bright blue, vanilla monsters are recognizable in slex :) 07:19 LarienTelrunya: also, monsters getting resisting doors is not implemented mainly because monsters don't have Str, but it would not be hard to add now. 07:20 oh right! call your variant "doorhack" since you did so much stuff on doors! 07:20 and the xnethack theme song should be from the band "The Doors", of course! 07:21 I did a lot of stuff on doors but I'm basically finished with it. 07:22 EPI for xnethack: a door trap that turns the game into slex. 07:23 I think I will count myself lucky if the biggest thing you complain about is monster recoloring and minor rearrangement 07:25 well, I haven't played it, so I don't yet know what my biggest complaints will be 07:27 I should try surströmming some day 07:27 since I have no sense of smell 07:27 aosdict: NH4 made shades zap-blue 07:27 and ghosts white 07:28 making mind flayers cyan sounds dangerous 07:28 4k cyan h is quantm mechanic 07:28 aosdict: better idea: make mind flayers, both kinds, bright magenta 07:28 it matters less which of the 2 kinds it is compared to it being a mind flayer in first place 07:29 FIQ: yeah but barrow wights are the ones who actually spellcast 07:29 aosdict: Amy only complains about that because you haven't implemented much else yet ;) 07:30 aosdict: for monster recolors/etc, I intend to do my own if/when I do racial monsters 07:30 basically I am thinking, do it all at once 07:30 it will throw people off, but then nothing will change again 07:32 FIQ: how can you be so sure that no further changes will happen? 07:32 I will try my hardest to get everything the way I want it all at once 07:33 FIQ: wrt 4k quantum mechanics, there's an argument for letting other variants' recoloration choices dictate mine, but I'd rather not 07:33 but cyan h doesn't seem that dangerous 07:33 I prefer bright magenta 07:34 does vanilla even use bright magenta? 07:34 like, at all? 07:34 on monsters 07:34 no 07:34 aosdict: slex hezrou are red, so xnethack hezrou must also be red!!!!!!!!!!!!11111 (just kidding :P) 07:34 LarienTelrunya: that isn't a recolor 07:34 a better example would be gnome lord 07:35 vanilla hezrou are also red 07:35 since you made everything darkblue to brightblue 07:36 aosdict: I like your take on i I 07:36 aosdict: I'd complain about the removal of the identify spell, but then again I would complain about removals in general and I don't really see a point in doing so ;) 07:36 impish vs infernal 07:37 FIQ: I'm all for that, but then you need to figure out what to do with invisible monsters 07:37 simple 07:37 blue ? 07:37 bright blue 07:39 the reason it's nice is because then you can separately recolor the rank-and-file demons, and also uniquely color the demon lords 07:39 yes 07:39 doing something like that in NH4 also allows unique Rider colors which would be nice 07:40 doesn't even have to be NH4 07:41 FIQ: I expect if you took the proposal for bright blue ? to the devteam, they'd say something like "but then it gets confusing if you play without color" 07:42 (something like green Death, black Famine and white Pestilence) 07:42 aosdict: Hmm, is there enough colors? 07:42 I was thinking, the Riders could be underlined 07:42 which isn't around in NH3 07:43 I'm looking at my proposal to recolor the demon lords, and it could be done with e.g. yellow Famine, black Death and green Pestilence (and then punt Geryon to some unused color) 07:43 brown 07:43 baalz is brown 07:43 maybe blue 07:43 ah 07:43 blue then I suppose 07:44 aosdict: My colors were based on the horse colors. Yours align more with NetHack thinking, though 07:47 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:48 S - a blessed +11 axe named Axe of Glory (unpaid, 118 zorkmids). 07:48 that seems... excessive. 07:49 and glorious! :) 07:49 that generated +11? 07:49 can that even happen? 07:49 In fourk, apparently so. 07:50 +11 is fairly unlikely, but not impossible. 07:50 It's in Neuvicq's antique weapons outlet on level 5. 07:50 My current Valkyrie actually has a +11 spear named Monster Slayer. 07:51 jonadab: can you also get a +20? 07:52 LarienTelrunya: I think the most likely way to get that is in a challenge room in Gehennom. 07:52 aosdict: It is pretty easy to figure out if ? was referencing a scroll or an invisible monster 07:52 By contex 07:52 t 07:52 "Oh huh, me attacking this square suddenly made a scroll appear!" 07:52 Yeah, just trying to put words in the devteam's mouth. 07:52 No 07:52 jonadab: does that mean "yes"? is there a limit to the enchantment value? 07:52 or are +100 possible in theory too? 07:52 I don't think +100 is possible. 07:53 Hang on, let me look up the numbers. 07:53 "think" 07:53 Tangles: polypile it, make excal 07:54 LarienTelrunya: if (abs(weapon->spe) <= 5) weapon->spe = rat_rne(2, 3, rng) + depth(&lev->z) / 7); 07:55 "rat_rne"? I guess that's different from vanilla's rne? 07:55 YOu can theoretically find one of these challenge rooms at depth 49 or more. 07:55 rat_rne takes a numerator and a denominator, not just a denominator. 07:55 so the depth part of that formula can be about 7-8? 07:56 So rat_rne(2, 3, rng) uses 2/3 where rne_on_rng(3, rng) would use 1/3 07:56 I think the depth part of the formula maxes at 7. I think. 07:56 I don't think depth 56 is possible. 07:56 and rne still maxes at 10? so a +17 weapon would be the highest theoretically spawnable I guess? 07:57 Yes, rat_rne maxes at 10. 07:57 So yeah, looks like +17 is the max that can be spawned this way. 07:57 !who 07:57 FIQ: [hdf-us] hothraxxa [gh] DemoBot [nh] Tangles [4k] 07:57 FIQ: [hdf-eu] No current players 07:58 For regular weapons in the main dungeon, hmm. 07:58 if ((otmp->spe == 0) && !otmp->blessed && !otmp->cursed && !rn2_on_rng(4, rng)) { 07:59 int sign = rn2_on_rng(3, rng) ? -1 : 1; 07:59 otmp->spe = sign * (((10 + depth(&lev->z)) / 15) + rat_rne(2, 3, rng)); 07:59 if (sign < -) curse (otmp); 07:59 Err 07:59 if (sign < 0) curse (otmp); 07:59 ^ That. 08:00 else otmp->blessed = 1; } 08:00 So 1 in 4 of what would otherwise be uncursed +0 weapons are converted to blessed-or-cursed not-pluszero. 08:01 Is the (10 + depth / 15) part too generous? 08:02 at depth 5 that would still be only 1... 08:02 At depth < 5, that's 0; at 5-19 it's 1, and at 20-34 it's 2... 08:02 So yeah, that's probably ok. 08:02 But yes, rat_rne(2, 3, rng) can be up to 10. 08:02 so in Tangles's case the rne function probably rolled the max of 10? 08:03 Likely. 08:03 Which the odds of that are, hmm. 08:03 (2/3)^10, I think? Or maybe (2/3)^9? Let me look at that rne code again. 08:03 ^9, yeah. 08:03 Because it starts at 1 and can't go lower than that, that's the base case. 08:05 So as I calculate it, (2/3)^9, times the aforementioned 1/4 chance of doing this at all, makes that a little over half a percent of what would be +0 uncursed weapons in vanilla, hit the maximum on rne. 2/3 of these are positively enchanted, 1/3 negatively. 08:05 which would mean that it's not all that unlikely? 08:06 How many weapons does the game generate, though? 08:06 Half a percent of uncursed +0 weapons in the game could be several in a game, I think. 08:06 So maybe I do need to tone it down a bit. 08:07 Maybe I should make it 3/5, or even 4/7, instead of 2/3. 08:07 Granted, the odds of finding a _good_ weapon (such as a long sword) at that level of enchantment are kind of remote. 08:07 But I suspect a +11 weapon is good regardless. 08:07 Even if it's, like, a war hammer. 08:08 in slex I found a randomly generated +15 Clarent (artifact short sword) once, which is a 1 in 1966080 chance... per randomly generated short sword :D 08:08 yeah, it is mostly about the plusses, rather than the damage range 08:09 OTOH, this makes it more likely the player will use a weapon he found, rather than everyone using the same 2-3 artifacts. 08:09 Dunno. 08:09 FIQ: opinions on this? 08:10 this is strictly a buff, and a tedious one at that 08:10 jonadab: one of the big problems is that you have only very few skill slots, so you can't necessarily respec if the weapon in question doesn't use a skill you already increased 08:10 jonadab: perhaps if enchantment doesn't do double duty as to-hit bonus and damage bonus, it'd be different 08:11 LarienTelrunya: what? 08:11 FIQ: bear in mind, if a weapon is generated at +11, the odds of it having a weapon name are almost 100%. 08:11 NetHack gives you more skill slots than you can use 08:11 unless you're a caster 08:12 FIQ: my XL12 samurai in fourk is out of skill slots right now 08:12 jonadab: yes, it encourages hoarding all those weapons and price id 08:12 LarienTelrunya: You have enough skill slots. I'm not worried about that. 08:12 I mean, yes, you do occasionally have to make choices in Fourk. 08:12 you can max out maybe two or three weapons, and then you need to pour skill points into shield and wands as well 08:12 aosdict: would making shopkeepers treat all items like valuable gems for ID purposes be cruel? 08:13 YOu can't enhance six different weapons *and* stealth *and* shield *and* riding *and* martial arts *and* spells... 08:13 as in 08:13 But you can enhance the stuff you actually care about. 08:13 they always demand the highest price 08:13 and offer the lowest 08:13 until you have IDed it 08:13 jonadab: what if I care about all the skills :P 08:13 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 08:13 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 08:13 it would completely kill off price ID 08:14 FIQ: My biggest concern there is scroll of ID. 08:14 ugh 08:14 jonadab: you could special case that scroll 08:14 Second biggest would be books, if you hadn't solved that with weight. 08:14 or make it pre-IDed 08:14 [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Wiz Syl Fem Cha), 18549 points, T:9989, killed by a mumak 08:14 LarienTelrunya: ALL THE SKILLS? 08:14 (or ID upon finding it, because its magic lets you know what it is, or something) 08:14 sure :D 08:14 slex gives you 2 skill points per level up and every increase only uses up one, yet I still run out constantly 08:15 slex has many more skills 08:15 Also slex is not specifically trying to give players meaningful choices where they can't just choose everything. 08:16 but the good thing is that slex allows you to respec if your XL24 character suddenly finds a +15 weapon of a type that they haven't trained with yet ;) 08:17 nethack brass has a similar thing 08:17 basically 08:17 it gives you skill slots that you can put in to enhance stuff, just like vanilla 08:17 but you don't need exercise 08:17 instead, what exercise does is that it will eventually increase your skill level with the given skill 08:18 (but this process is much slower than in vanilla) 08:18 LarienTelrunya: Just add a monster with an attack that undoes all your skill enhancements and practice. 08:18 You can be evil _and_ allow respeccing at the same time! 08:18 LarienTelrunya: read amnesia 08:18 it lowers skills 08:19 it works sort of like ADOM in this regard 08:19 what slex has is an attack that lowers skill caps, and if your skill is then higher than the cap, you lose the enhancement and get the skill point back (I guess I should make it so that in evil variant mode the skill point is just lost forever :P) 08:19 ADOM is similar, it lets you put points into skills on level up 08:19 but you can also exercise (most) skills 08:19 which will distribute points to the skill over time 08:19 FIQ: Elona is similar to ADOM in that regard, except Elona's skills cap at 2000 instead of 100 ;) 08:19 elona: the roguelike grinding simulator 08:20 (sadly, some of Elona's skills stop getting better way before they reach that point, negotiation comes to mind) 08:21 LarienTelrunya: btw I looked at the rlg threads when you linked me earlier 08:21 what is with their obsession with C:DDA 08:22 simple: Coolfrog/Arrhythmia/Solarflare/whatever nickname he uses nowadays made a CDDA mod and wants to get others to play it, just like I want to get others to play slex :P 08:22 that isn't true 08:22 the obsession was there before said mod 08:22 https://github.com/tyrael93/Ascension 08:23 LarienTelrunya: btw, apparently the ADOM dev decided that no longer shall 80% of the talents be useless 08:23 probably the obsession before the mod was Coolfrog too, when he didn't yet know that he will make a mod 08:24 oh really? I would normally try from the outset to make it so that no talents are useless :D 08:24 like 80% of the talents the game has has been useless forever 08:24 and worse 08:24 some of them wasn't even implemented 08:24 also I didn't really play ADOM, I have a character that entered some boring dungeon and fought some boring monsters and then decided "yawn, I'd rather play DCSS" (and that's saying something, since DCSS is also yawn-inducing in my book) 08:25 then you didn't get far 08:25 did you do the noob cave or something 08:25 3 floors, no threats whatsoever 08:26 I usually start by doing that cave and rushing through it with autoexplore/etc 08:26 because sometimes it has an altar 08:26 which is nice 08:27 no idea, I feel that every single dungeon in ADOM has some stupid-ass boring-sounding name like "unremarkable dungeon" or "uninteresting cave" or one of the other dozen variations of that, how do you even tell them apart from each other? 08:27 are there interesting dungeons in ADOM as well? :P 08:30 unremarkable dungeon is the opposite of unremarkable 08:30 it has doubled chance at dungeon features 08:30 and ends at a village which has some decent loot 08:30 plus one of few guranteed shops in the game 08:30 and a bunch of potions of ultra healing 08:31 oh so those boring-sounding dungeon names serve as deception? great :P 08:34 it's ADOM 08:34 it's spoiler-heavy 08:34 just like nethack 08:34 but I personally find ADOM worse in this regard 08:35 ADOM is spoiler-heavy except there's no source code, so there will always be stuff that no player ever figures out 08:35 like the fact that missile weapon mastery was completely broken 08:35 by *not being implemented* 08:36 LarienTelrunya: isn't there far more deceptive stuff in slex than there will ever be in ADOM 08:36 aosdict: maybe, but it's open source so in theory you can fully spoil yourself about every deceptive thing in slex! 08:37 LarienTelrunya: also IIRC UD is one of only 2 places with a guranteed herb spawn 08:37 the other being bigroom, which is far more annoying to deal with 08:38 endless herb grinding ahoy :D 08:38 aosdict: if you thought some of the tasks you have to do in nethack is bad 08:38 you haven't seen ADOM herb grinding 08:38 in elona, herbs are much more limited since every seed will only produce so many herbs before it withers 08:39 basically, herbs grow over time according to Conway's Game of Life 08:39 so some herbs grow, some other withers away 08:39 you have to learn how to pick the herbs appropriately 08:39 so that they survive 08:39 and this process can be slow 08:40 FIQ: I've heard of this, yes 08:40 it seems like it would make an interesting game in its own right 08:40 but not a roguelike 08:46 jonadab: aosdict: thoughts on my proposal to remove price id? 08:47 FIQ: not the one you're addressing, but: dooooo eeeeeet :D 08:56 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:56 FIQ: I'm not sure. I already told you my two largest concerns, of course. One of which doesn't apply in FH. 08:57 But then there's still the "is this actually an improvement, and a meaningful one?" question, and I'm not sure I know the answer. 08:57 which one doesn't apply? 08:57 Books. 08:57 oh right 08:58 But this leaves the remaining concern of this: NetHack's object ID system is very complex and gives you a lot of different ways to ID things. Does this weaken that? 08:58 And I'm not sure if it does _meaningfully_ weaken it, or not. 08:58 I can see the argument for removing tedium. 08:59 But do we need to replace it with something else, or are we good? 08:59 NOt sure I know the answer. 09:01 Certainly price ID gets less complaints for tedium than other things like sokoban or gehennom. 09:03 it's also something you can easily avoid doing if you don't like it 09:03 my #1 for tedium: the 3.6 plane of water 09:03 I ported some of the 3.6 plane of water 09:04 However, I also made the whole plane visible 09:04 well, not as much "ported" as "I implemented a similar change" 09:04 so you can see all the bubbles? that's an improvement 09:04 right 09:04 it's an idea I had for years 09:04 told chris too, so it's in dnh 09:05 alongside a neat breath mechanic 09:05 which I want to port 09:07 aosdict: raisse: one issue with the "don't do it" for price ID in particular 09:07 it's clearly a tedious task 09:08 but unlike, say, pudding farming 09:08 the benefit clearly outweight the tedium for the majority of people 09:08 (sokoban has a similar issue for those who don't like it) 09:08 and I don't want to encourage tedious behaviour 09:09 how is it bad if *someone else* does something *you* find tedious? 09:09 raisse: it is very clear to me that these people don't do it for *fun* 09:09 but because they feel that they have to do it 09:09 they don't like it 09:09 that's their problem, not yours :-) 09:10 if I can remove tedium without it being at the expense of gameplay 09:10 I want to 09:10 (like the guy who asked me on twitter why my posts from mastodon had content warnings for things *he* doesn't mind seeing) 09:10 however, I'm not confident that other sources of ID can make up for it 09:10 or the fact that it would make everything more expensive 09:10 The main YANI archive lists all the non-magical sources of ID in the game I could think of. 09:11 my main concern here is scrolls 09:11 the change would apply to: rings, scrolls, wands, potions 09:11 wands have other means of ID 09:12 I think I've solved rings and potions by augmenting how sinks interact with them 09:12 potions can mostly be IDed safely by actually using them, or if you're paranoid, other, trickier but safer, means 09:12 rings can be IDed by sinks, and oracle enlightenment 09:12 that leaves scrolls 09:12 if I have a lot of potions and a unihorn and a safe-ish place I usually do the dip-and-quaff thing 09:12 currently they're the main thing people price ID 09:13 I still am very fond of the idea that a scroll's label length denotes the "power" (actually vanilla price tier) of the scroll 09:13 ooh that's cool 09:13 so THARR is cheaper than VENZAR BORGAVVE 09:13 my issue with that is that it's just a more opaque means of price ID 09:13 I think I'd prefer price ID, tbh 09:13 well price ID requires a shop. 09:13 also it doesn't lend itself to randomized labels across games 09:13 This would not. 09:13 I'd haave to learn label tiers 09:14 and what is in each 09:14 this is no different from price ID 09:14 aosdict: finding a shop isn't IMO the worst part of price ID 09:14 in fact it's the easiest, usually 09:15 FIQ: yeah but some games have none 09:15 izchak is always there 09:15 and even if there is one, it means you have to drag stuff to the shop 09:15 scrolls aren't that heavy 09:15 also, I am usually approaching these from a vanilla standpoint, so... orctown 09:15 or even minetown bones 09:15 I simply don't consider orctown 09:15 shops are just not guaranteed 09:15 It's a cruel place that has no business in vanilla 09:16 worst minetown (even worse than orctown) is crossaligned monkeytown with only izchak's shop 09:16 (actually, xnethack orctown does have a shop, so.) 09:17 There is a pit here. You see here a very rotted wizard corpse named Grasshoppe. 09:18 and thus it was written in the book of grasshoppe 09:19 s - the cursed book of grasshoppe. 09:26 Demobot has lost his source of levitation it seems 09:27 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:27 FIQ: yeah so the spoiler requirement is the main problem with scroll label stuff. I don't think there's any other metric by which we could order scrolls though that's not price ID, is there? 09:27 no 09:27 Unless you want to say "power" (so detect food is incredibly weak and genocide is incredibly powerful) but that's quite subjective 09:28 YASI: halfway through the dungeon, there's a library with books and scrolls and a librarien who demands a fee to identify scrolls for you 09:29 aosdict: Most useful scrolls can be IDed in FIQHack by monster use 09:30 FIQ: were you here for that discussion on "inspecting" an item and concluding "this item is one of these 4 random possible items"? 09:30 I was not 09:30 But that sounds like GKH 09:31 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 7198 points, T:7767, killed by a Woodland-elf, while praying 09:31 it was brought up by rumflump linking a post from the GKH blog, so yeah 09:31 It has an ID mechanic where all the unidentified items will display as one of 3 potential selections 09:31 Heh 09:31 Yeah, sounds like that post :P 09:31 I read that a while back 09:31 It would be interesting to try, the only substantial barrier is how to make it work in the interface 09:32 (ie GKH can use a nice tooltip with the mouse but we're stuck with ASCII text) 09:32 inventory -> click an item 09:32 basically extending the "item use menu" 09:33 and should it automatically type-name that object? 09:33 and if so, should it do that to all items automatically when you first encounter them? 09:33 which means randomized descriptions wouldn't really matter anymore? 09:34 type name? why? 09:34 ah 09:34 I see 09:35 if it doesn't type name them then the player has to say "oh, it's conf/hallu/full healing, let me just hit Co and type it in... "c-o-n-f-..."" 09:35 for every single item 09:38 <@riker> !tell LarienTelrunya please? you can make it give you agg monster when used :) 09:38 @riker: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-03-05 01:57 EST: what, "fiqhack explore command"? a command that lets you explore a FIQhack dungeon (where monsters will **** ******** *** **** *** ***) while you're playing slex? :P if you mean autoexplore: I will not taint slex with such a stupid feature that causes you to run willy-nilly into uncharted territory like it does in DCSS 09:38 Will do, @riker! 09:38 aosdict: I'd probably do this, if I added it: http://home.fiq.se/extinv.txt 09:38 aosdict: but yeah, true I suppose 09:42 Possibly, making it an option would be the best way to handle it. 09:42 Some players would appreciate it auto labeling, some would prefer to play with the normal randomized descriptions on. 09:43 aosdict: what if you could pay Oracle to ID stuff for you btw? 09:43 Hmm, I realize this makes sense to various extents with potions, but not with scrolls (especially for chars who have been illiterate so far). 09:44 FIQ: it would be very tricky to balance the gold, unless the price increased with each ID or something 09:44 too expensive and it's not worth it, too cheap and you solve the whole ID game 09:44 <@Tone> The GKH potion ID mechanic works really well for the casual roguelike that it is 09:44 <@Tone> An more involved ID system would slow down the flow of the game 09:45 @Tone Yeah I'm unsure if it's a good fit for NetHack 09:45 However, it can work with aosdict's scroll label mechanics 09:45 how so? 09:45 <@Tone> Yeah I've never considered what nethack would be like with it but my first instinct is that it's not really suitable 09:45 Basically, instead of having to rely on an external spoiler 09:46 have the game outright tell what it can be 09:46 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 09:47 FIQ: except flavor gets weird in some cases. 09:47 You're playing illit, why do you recognize scrolls. Or you're playing Caveman or Barbarian, how do you know enough about scrolls to winnow them down 09:48 to a small subset 09:48 mhm 09:48 (of course, this could be worked around; perhaps illit/cav/bar players simply don't get to use this mechanic.) 09:49 I'm still not seeing how this ties into the scroll labels though. 09:49 aosdict: as in 09:49 you wanted labels to be sorted into tiers 09:49 Oh, unless you mean VAS CORP BET MANI will typically say "charging/genocide/punishment/stinking cloud", hardcoded? 09:49 I have no issue with this if the explanation was *ingame* 09:50 like, if I could trivially bring up the real list of what it can be 09:50 with a mechanic similar to the above suggestion 09:50 like "walking shoes" are always low boots? 09:53 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) performed the invocation, on T:111022 09:53 FIQ: Specifically, I wanted labels to be sorted into tiers but with some random minor shuffling. So a long scroll label is *probably* a 300 zm scroll, but could be 200 or rarely 100 09:54 aosdict: ah 09:54 I misunderstood then 09:55 hardcoding tiers is not really any different from price ID in terms of the spoiler tax 09:56 however, it improves on price ID in that it doesn't require a shop 09:56 aosdict: Yes, that is what I was saying earlier.. lol 09:57 For the scroll ID game, I'd like to get away from this spoiler tax by not having tiers at all, ideally 09:58 -!- tmasher has joined #hardfought 09:59 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Raisse suddenly disappears!] 10:00 [hdf-us] [gh] Tmasher (Hea Hum Fem Neu), 232 points, T:288, killed by a dwarf 10:04 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) averted death, on T:111704 10:05 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:05 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 10:11 -!- raisse has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:12 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 10:12 [hdf-us] [slex] Tmasher (Psi Hid Mal Law), 134 points, T:327, killed by a monster (guard) 10:13 [hdf-us] [gh] Tmasher (Wiz Kob Mal Cha), 0 points, T:51, killed by a dwarf 10:13 -!- tmasher has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:38 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:53 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:53 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 10:54 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Planes, on T:114930 10:55 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 10:55 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v theRaisse] by ChanServ 10:55 -!- raisse is now known as Guest65014 10:55 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse\splat 10:55 -!- raisse\splat is now known as theRaisse 10:55 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 10:58 -!- Guest65014 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:11 [hdf-us] [nd] THWACK (Bar Orc Fem Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4565 11:38 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law), 25530474 points, T:117899, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/D/DemoBot/nh343/dumplog/1520225688.nh343.txt 11:44 !ask DemoBot 11:44 oops 11:44 !asc DemoBot 11:44 K2: DemoBot has ascended 20 times in 369 games (5.42%): nh:20 (5.42%) 11:44 !ask DemoBot why did you get stuck rubbing an oil lamp? 11:44 heh 11:46 okay, apparently in vanilla you can light a diluted potion of oil on fire 11:46 that seems... wrong 11:46 <@Tone> Oil does float on water though 11:47 It probably shouldn't explode though 12:14 I can't help but think of quakenet whenever I see raisse come on/off 12:15 <@riker> what's the msg? 12:15 because xs4all was the server I ended up on a lot of the time on qnet back in the day 12:15 with their fancy asciiart 12:15 @riker @me? 12:15 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:16 <@riker> no, raisse's msg 12:17 <@riker> the discord side doesn't show join/leaves 12:23 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 12:24 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:24 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 12:25 -!- ProzacElf_ has joined #hardfought 12:31 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:34 -!- ProzacElf_ is now known as Prozacelf 12:34 -!- Prozacelf is now known as ProzacElf 12:47 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:07 [hdf-us] [nh] pavelek (Val Dwa Fem Law), 2122 points, T:2006, killed by an ogre 13:12 [hdf-us] [nh] pavelek (Val Dwa Fem Law), 281 points, T:502, killed by a coyote 13:26 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 13:49 [hdf-us] [un] cpittman (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 321 points, T:2045, killed by a gas spore's explosion 13:56 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 13:56 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v theRaisse] by ChanServ 13:56 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 14:07 -!- theRaisse has quit [Quit: Raisse suddenly disappears!] 14:08 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: sorry for my connection] 14:08 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 14:08 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 14:08 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 14:11 [hdf-us] [nh] pavelek (Val Hum Fem Law), 53 points, T:210, poisoned by a rotted kobold corpse 14:15 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 5991 points, T:5484, killed by a hell hound 14:29 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 14:29 is demobot a bothack instance? 14:30 yes 14:30 ah ok 14:30 -!- stenno has left #hardfought 14:45 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: sorry for my connection] 14:45 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 14:49 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 14:58 [hdf-us] [dnh] Flan99 (Bin Orc Fem Non), 47 points, T:316, killed by a kobold 15:00 !tell K2 minor tweak: ID scare monster on dusting 15:00 Will do, FIQ! 15:12 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 15:24 -!- elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 15:51 [hdf-us] [dnh] Flan99 (Bin Inc Fem Non) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2256 16:04 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 16:09 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 16:09 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 16:11 -!- deadnoob has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 16:12 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23 [hdf-us] [gh] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) killed Croesus, on T:32811 16:23 it wasn't me! i was just a witness! 16:23 The silver dragon swallows Croesus. "Burrrrp!" Croesus is killed! 16:40 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 115 points, T:278, killed by a sewer rat 16:45 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 17:32 ais523: so a question 17:32 why on earth does the auto-price-ID care about weight? 17:50 I think because weights are shown, so even if there's another item with the same price, if it's different weight, you may still be unique. 17:51 [hdf-us] [nd] Wolfechu (Val Dwa Fem Law) was crowned "The Hand of Elbereth" by Tyr, on T:18667 17:54 [hdf-us] [gh] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 238830 points, T:34053, killed by an invisible orcish ranger called Warwick 17:55 !lastgame 17:55 hothraxxa: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/h/hothraxxa/gh/dumplog/1519761743.gh.txt 17:55 hothraxxa: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/R/Raisse/nhdev/dumplog/1520194540.nhdev.txt 17:56 You kill the invisible Warwick! But wait... The invisible Warwick's medallion begins to glow! The invisible Warwick looks much better! The medallion crumbles to dust! The invisible Warwick swings his magical long sword. The magical long sword beheads you! You die... 17:57 ahh, grunthack. 18:00 did someone ping me? 18:00 oh, that's just !lastgame 18:02 FIQ: it was the easiest way to specify many of the appearance groups in an objective way 18:02 and because it's shown in the UI it can't spoil anything 18:06 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:06 -!- Elizziebeth has joined #hardfought 18:07 Hey, I'm playing dNetHack, and for some reason enemies keep respawning as zombies. It's not really an /issue/, since I can blow through them pretty easily with a few force bolts, but it's kinda weird. Any idea what might cause it? I'm playing an Orc Binder, at Mine's End rn, started happening early in Gnomish Mines 18:08 A something-or-other wizard cast a spell on me that gave the message "You feel monsters are alerted to your position," which is the only maybe-related thing I can think of, but it'd seem weird if aggravate monster revives enemies 18:10 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:11 hi Elizziebeth 18:11 K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-03-05 15:00 EST: minor tweak: ID scare monster on dusting 18:11 trying to remember dnethack zombie behavior... 18:12 [Demo] do zombies in dnethack recruit corpses? i cant remember 18:12 <[Demo]> i dont think so 18:12 <[Demo]> i think they are just trolls 18:12 <[Demo]> and are spawned always in lgroups 18:12 <[Demo]> live gnomes will fight zombie gnomes 18:13 <[Demo]> living grudges undead 18:13 <[Demo]> could be some result of confusion from there 18:13 in grunthack if a monster is killed by a zombie, it'll respawn as one if its humanoid (gnomes, dwarves, etc) 18:13 Nah, I've seen undead rising first-hand 18:13 <[Demo]> yeah thats (thankfully) not a thing in dnh 18:13 <[Demo]> assuming the version on the server is still 3.15.1 18:13 <[Demo]> i have no idea what 3.15.2 does to zombies 18:13 it is 18:14 Chris_ANG hasnt asked me to upgrade to .2 yet 18:14 i dont play dnethack enough to remember 18:15 <[Demo]> i havent played in a good bit 18:15 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:20849 18:15 <[Demo]> i think my description is accurate 18:15 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed ring of levitation", on T:20849 18:15 <[Demo]> shut up demobot u dont count 18:15 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of genocide", on T:20850 18:15 heh 18:15 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased +3 gray dragon scale mail", on T:20853 18:16 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 shield of reflection", on T:20861 18:16 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of remove curse", on T:20864 18:17 sorry Elizziebeth not the answer you're looking for ;) hang out long enough, someone who's well versed in dnethack will chime in 18:17 including the mod author, who hangs out here often 18:18 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of genocide", on T:20937 18:27 It's all good! It's really not a problem anyways, they go down really fast and I have Pw and spirit powers to spare 18:28 I said orc earlier but this run is actualyl an incantifier, dunno where I got orc 18:28 <[Demo]> both get magic resistance :P 18:28 I should try dnethack sometime just to play inc. 18:28 <[Demo]> do it b4 it gets nerfed to the ground 18:29 <[Demo]> actually magic missile is getting nerfed in 3.15.2 so do it now 18:29 but I want to keep coding stuff now 18:29 <[Demo]> incant isnt OP in the same way vanilla valks arent OP 18:30 <[Demo]> ok thats pretty wrong but i say it incase anyone wants to agree with it 18:34 <[Demo]> i really wonder sometimes how i have any infrastructure standing 18:34 <[Demo]> how i manage to not destroy everything i do 18:46 ...Hm. Just realized i can't really bless my luckstone without unbinding Amon 18:46 Nor do I have a void altar yet. 18:46 Damnn 18:48 <[Demo]> there is holy water in vlads tower 18:48 [hdf-us] [nd] Wolfechu (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:24378 18:49 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:50 <[Demo]> https://i.imgur.com/znyvjJG.png 19:05 <[Demo]> i swear one day when AI gets to a certain point im just gonna replace myself with AI and just like die or something 19:17 We'll all get uploaded into the cloud to live our lives virtually, while AI gets on with important stuff in IRL 19:18 but "the matrix" is a cooler name than "the cloud" 19:18 much cooler 19:19 Do you know that the idea of the matrix, even the name "matrix" itself for such a virtual world, was used much earlier in a Dr Who story? 19:19 much earlier than the Neo movie anyway 19:19 I did not know that 19:20 I can't remember the title, but the matrix as such was on Gallifrey and Dr Who was in it, fighting a minion of the Master 19:23 !who 19:23 FIQ: [hdf-us] mtf [fh] DemoBot [nh] mightyquinn [sp] Grasshopper [nd] Wolfechu [nd] Flan99 [dnh] cpittman [un] 19:23 FIQ: [hdf-eu] No current players 19:28 -!- deadnoob_ has joined #hardfought 19:29 -!- oh6_ has joined #hardfought 19:29 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v oh6_] by ChanServ 19:32 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:37 [hdf-us] [nd] Wolfechu (Val Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "3 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:26904 19:37 [hdf-us] [nd] Wolfechu (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 cloak of protection", on T:26906 19:38 [hdf-us] [nd] Wolfechu (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed +3 speed boots", on T:26909 19:38 [hdf-us] [nd] Wolfechu (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed +3 gauntlets of power", on T:26914 19:38 [hdf-us] [nd] Wolfechu (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed +3 shield of reflection", on T:26916 19:39 [hdf-us] [nd] Wolfechu (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed magic marker", on T:26946 19:40 -!- _catalyst_ has joined #hardfought 19:52 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 20:22 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 20:23 -!- deadnoob_ has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:36 -!- oh6_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:41 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 20:44 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 20:44 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 21:00 [hdf-us] [nd] Wolfechu (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Lord Surtur, on T:28215 21:00 [hdf-us] [nd] Wolfechu (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:28216 21:35 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:57 [hdf-us] [dnh] Flan99 (Bin Inc Fem Non) completed Sokoban, on T:9635 22:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] Flan99 (Bin Inc Fem Non), 46895 points, T:10700, killed by a soldier ant 22:15 Sigh. Go team a... 22:16 It was such a good run too. 22:25 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 22:26 -!- tmasher has joined #hardfought 22:30 -!- tmasher has left #hardfought 22:41 [hdf-us] [nd] dotdotdot (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 3810 points, T:5034, quit 22:43 [hdf-us] [nd] dotdotdot (Ran Elf Fem Cha) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:22 22:47 -!- tmasher has joined #hardfought 22:52 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 22:54 [hdf-us] [slex] Tmasher (Loc Lic Mal Neu) shouted "Die!", on T:169 23:00 -!- tmasher has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:24 [hdf-us] [nd] dotdotdot (Ran Elf Fem Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping a +0 elven shield on an altar, on T:3337 23:27 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has joined #hardfought 23:34 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 23:44 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]