00:12 <@riker> thoth is on a weight loss plan 00:12 <@riker> !tell Chris_ANG idea, gnomes start with 85 skill points instead of 75 (since they get shit carrycap anyway) 00:12 Will do, @riker! 00:19 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:20 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 00:20 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 01:13 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:16 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 01:16 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 01:27 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 01:27 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 02:11 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 02:11 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 02:12 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:41 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 02:41 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 02:58 -!- hf_guest_81733 has joined #hardfought 03:00 -!- hf_guest_81733 has quit [Client Quit] 03:19 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Mon Hum Mal Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:44737 03:19 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Mon Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:44739 03:20 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:20 -!- [Demo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:23 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 03:32 [hdf-us] [un] cpittman (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 9 points, T:118, killed by a sewer rat 03:56 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:00 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 04:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 04:59 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:45442 04:59 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Mon Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:45449 05:06 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Mon Hum Mal Neu) performed the invocation, on T:45500 05:08 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:45510 05:32 [hdf-us] [gh] arnibald (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed rustproof +3 elven shield of drain resistance", on T:32450 05:33 -!- realinari has quit [Quit: realinari] 05:36 [hdf-us] [gh] arnibald (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed rustproof +3 hawaiian shirt of displacement", on T:32452 05:38 [hdf-us] [gh] arnibald (Pri Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed magic marker", on T:32468 05:44 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:59 [hdf-us] [un] cpittman (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 6193 points, T:10371, killed by a dwarf lord 06:16 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 06:20 [hdf-us] [gh] arnibald (Pri Hum Mal Neu) had mace bestowed upon him by Venus, on T:33158 06:41 -!- hpardis has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:45 aosdict: Hmm, not sure. I theoretically know that it's dei, but I forget and spell it phonetically. NOt sure why. 06:45 I mean, I know it's from the Latin dei, which I _don't_ misspell. 06:46 But I learned the word "deity" much earlier in my life (circa third grade) than the Latin "dei", and have always spelled it the way it's pronounced, I guess. 06:59 is it pronounced differently in the US, then? 06:59 in the UK, it's "day-i-tee", short "i" 07:02 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 07:10 ais523: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzPS0syobdE 07:11 ais523: Oh, I've heard that pronunciation a couple of times. But most people say DEE-it-ee. 07:12 Which, come to think of it, works for either spelling. 07:13 the video got the phonetics wrong though, what their US speaker is saying is dee-i-dee 07:14 Regional differences, probably. I pronounce it day-i-tee or dee-it-ee depending on how my subconscious is feeling at the time. I've also heard it pronounced dee-i-dee, actually. 07:14 Chris_ANG: Message from @riker at 2018-02-28 00:12 EST: idea, gnomes start with 85 skill points instead of 75 (since they get shit carrycap anyway) 07:15 elenmirie: Oh, that's the "t as in butter", which is standard mid-word like that in most American English dialects. 07:15 Also, it's not actually a d phoneme like in "dog", though it's easy to see how you'd hear it that way if it's a phoneme you don't say. 07:15 yes, I'm familiar with that (but it's not t as in butter :) 07:15 It's used in substitute for both t and d in that position. 07:15 OH, it's not? 07:16 Ok, let me listen again. 07:16 what I mean is, not the way I would say butter... :D 07:16 Well, it sounds like t, not d, to me. In the video. 07:16 I guess in US English it's more like budder 07:16 oh, right 07:16 Maybe that channel has a butter? 07:16 * elenmirie listens again 07:17 Also, they've got this one wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAx8Xbun-WY 07:18 The standard US pronunciation of "paracetamol" is "acetimenophen". HTH.HAND. 07:18 interesting... the first and last syllable in the US speaker's pronunciation sound the same to me 07:18 hehe 07:18 Huh. How do *you* pronounce t then? 07:20 jonadab: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edwMfWXwr8M 07:20 butter 07:22 Ok, yeah, the t in butter, as pronounced there, is much slopper / closer to d than the one in deity. 07:22 FIQhack updated (us and eu) 07:22 I mean, it still isn't the _same_ as the d in dog. 07:22 But it's used for both t and d in the middle of a word like that. 07:23 And yes, that video has it just about like most Americans say it, though the exact pronunciation varies a bit. 07:23 "t as in butter" is interesting, some British accents even use a glottal stop for it 07:23 The British way doesn't sound odd to Americans, we just don't notice the difference if we're not paying attention to it. 07:23 ais523: Oh, I've heard that too. 07:23 ais523, yes! 07:23 a glo'al stop 07:24 Though the dialect of English I mostly speak (Midwestern) only has a glottal stop in one word. 07:24 my accent is boring, it pronounces it the same way as an initial t, but that's certainly not the only way to do it in British English 07:24 jonadab: which one? 07:24 (It's the - in the middle of uh-oh.) 07:24 huh, interesting, I think that one's glottal in most accents 07:24 it's either that or you have to stop altogether for a bit, which hurts your throat and sounds weird 07:24 so I can see how it ended up being added 07:25 in general it seems to be used for any hyphen between two vowels? 07:25 here's a teacher teaching how to reduce the t's in the middle of words... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTLfEPq_dtA 07:25 ais523: Hmm, I haven't looked for other hyphen-between-vowel words, not sure. 07:25 trying to think of another one... 07:25 hmm, I tried a few examples 07:25 it's not quite a vowel at the end of the first word 07:25 err, before the hyphen 07:26 it's more like "somewhere between a vowel and a plosive" 07:26 because if you can just hold the initial vowel and slide it into the second one the problem doesn't come up 07:26 whereas "uh" isn't really a vowel because you can't prolong it indefinitely 07:26 Ah. 07:27 Well, you _can_, but it sounds quite odd. 07:27 We don't normally hold short vowels. 07:27 you can... someone that is hesitating in speech might say uuuuuuuh.... 07:27 I just tried, I physically can't do it 07:27 you can change it to errrrrrrr.... but that's a different vowel 07:27 elenmirie: That's a good example, yeah. 07:28 hi 07:28 Hello FIQ, Welcome to #hardfought 07:28 if I try with an actual uh I just end up coughing 07:28 ais523: Any time you put an r after a vowel, the vowel sound always changes. 07:28 lol 07:28 uuuuh *cough* 07:28 however, different people treat different vowels differently, so… 07:28 FIQ: see ##nethack-variants, some really major FIQHack bug reports 07:28 (R in English is traditionally viewed as a consonant, but it forms diphthongs.) 07:28 it's not just nearlook that's broken, quite a few commands are now consistently crashing, including some leaving the save file unautorecoverable 07:29 I think it's a semi-vowel or something 07:29 jonadab: there are a /lot/ of semivowels 07:29 r, s, l, f 07:29 that's why you can have STRC 07:29 and a few I missed, I think 07:29 they're normally treated as consonants but you can hold and slide them as though they were vowels 07:30 oh, also m and n, as long as your mouth is shut 07:30 hm 07:30 Oh, you can _hold_ any consonant that's not a plosive. 07:30 hmmmmm… 07:30 Approximants (w, y), sibilants (s, sh, z), etc. 07:30 I don't think you can hold consonant y 07:30 Anything that's not a plosive (or affricate) can be held. 07:30 ais523: I can. 07:31 it's a consequence of sliding between two vowels I think 07:31 and the act of sliding can't be held, or maybe it can be? 07:31 also I'm not aware of a difference between vowel w and short oo, but maybe there is one 07:31 Hmm, I think I just noticed an exception to my statement. I can't hold h. And I don't _think_ it's a plosive, though I'm not sure how to categorize it. 07:32 I can hold h, but only for a few seconds as you run out of breath really quickly 07:32 hm, I think I can hold it 07:32 ais523: K2 hadn't updated yet 07:32 you have to really force air through your windpipe quite quickly while mid-h 07:32 Ok, I was trying to hold American h, which I think is different from Britsh h, actually. 07:32 see backloghere timestamp wise 07:32 (A lot of British accents sound like the h is _not pronounced at all_ to American ears.) 07:32 that's because it isn't 07:32 :) 07:32 Ah. 07:33 the segfaults unelatedthough, willlook into it 07:33 That would explain it then. 07:33 other accents add additional h's, or even a mix (i.e. add them if they weren't there, take them away if they were) 07:33 haitches where they shouldn't be or no haitches where they should be causes a lot of anxiety... 07:33 it used to be a class indicator, with the middle class doing h's as spelled, and upper and lower classes doing their own thing 07:33 *cause 07:34 but I'm not sure that's true any more 07:34 it's anything goes... 07:34 ais523: Interesting. 07:34 I don't think American English really has class indicators. Everything's driven more by region and family. 07:35 another possibility is to add and remove n before a leading vowel (which is where h tends to be) 07:35 (Maybe it's that, historically, families have changed class boundaries from one generation to the next as often as not here.) 07:35 probably because it's sliding back and forth between a word and a previous "a"/"an" 07:35 my nuncle 07:35 quite a few words have historically gained or lost an n in their spelling because of that 07:35 I've read that apple used to be napple. 07:36 anyway, h-dropping is one of those accent things which is weird because it shows up in spelling 07:36 the rule behind a/an is whether or not the word starts with a vowel sound, and h is not a vowel, but the vowel after it is… 07:36 so you universally have "in an hour" (silent h in basically every accent), but some people will write "in an helicopter" because they don't pronounce the h 07:37 (and the phrase would be pronounced more like "in a nellycopter") 07:37 * elenmirie wants a ride in a nellycopter 07:38 Hmm, I don't think I've ever heard an American use the h-less helicopter pronunciation. 07:38 that wouldn't surprise me 07:38 Americans do drop the h from herb though 07:38 it's rare even in the UK (but only moderately rare) 07:38 or at least some do 07:39 Yes, the h on herb is _usually_ silent here. 07:39 Usually. 07:39 different words have different levels of h-droppiness 07:41 huh, according to Wikipedia, "it" (the pronoun) used to be "hit" but the h got dropped so regularly it eventually disappeared from the spelling 07:42 Interesting. That must have finished happening before the colonies were founded. 07:43 Because there's no vestige over here of the earlier form. 07:43 apparently it's used for emphasis in a subset of US accents ("hit", that is) 07:43 Huh, really? Which ones? 07:45 south east 07:45 Hmm. 07:45 the distribution's drawn as a map but it's basically everything east of Texas 07:45 [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Wiz Syl Fem Cha) reached the bottom of the Mines, on T:4638 07:45 (without being signficantly further north) 07:45 I would _think_ I'd have noticed that. Although really strong deep-south accents are pretty hard for me to decode just in general. 07:46 I'm not sure I believe it, but then I haven't been there 07:46 The things they do to vowels, shouldn't be done. 07:46 I'm not sure I believe it either. 07:46 I've not spent hardly any time in the South, but I've known a number of people who had recently moved north from various southern states. 07:46 Carolinas, Virginia, Georgia, Louisiana. 07:47 (LOTS from Kentucky, but that's its _own_ accent category.) 07:47 * raisse had her first flight in a nellycopter! 07:48 and then it was something like 15 years until I flew in an actual plane 07:49 My first flight was in a Delta jet. The medium-sized kind with two seats on each side of the aisle. 07:51 (I think it was the smallest of the ones that do have four seats per row; the next size down has three seats per row, with an off-center aisle.) 07:52 jonadab: when I traveled to the Carolinas the most prominent accentual feature was pronouncing "get" as "git" 07:52 which was annoying because I was primarily talking to software developers who used git 07:53 lol 07:53 when I was at worldcon I talked to someone who said he had trouble with his nick 07:54 I thought he meant "I want to be called X but everybody calls me Y" but he was from New Zealand, and it was his neck 07:57 aosdict: Umm, wait. Is this a vowel change only, or were they using the affricate g? 07:57 huh, knowing the history of vowel changes over time actually helps explain a lot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift 07:57 the Great Vowel Shift was mostly complete by 1700 so it affects English on both sides of the Atlantic 07:58 but certain words ended up not shifting for whatever reason, which explains a large number of spelling/pronunciation inconsistencies 07:58 Yeah. 07:58 The GVS is also responsible for a bunch of the "English uses the Latin alphabet very differently from every other language" stuff. 07:59 Like the English long I, for instance, which is a diphthong in every other language. 07:59 it's kind-of bizarre that something like that could happen 07:59 in the course of just 100 years, all the long vowels had changed, and after another 100 years they'd changed again 07:59 That's pretty standard stuff in linguistics. Consonants do it to. 08:00 *too 08:00 Did you know that the English words "hound" and "canine" are from the same Indo-European root, via different paths? 08:00 yes! 08:00 also chase, catch and capture 08:00 (Hound is of course the Germanic version; canine the Centum/Latin one.) 08:01 (not from the same as hound, but the same as each other) 08:01 Interesting, I didn't know that set. 08:01 !tell K2 pushed a fix where if a pet tried to tame its master, the game would crash 08:01 Will do, FIQ! 08:01 But, this one really gets people: "hundred" and "cent" 08:01 FIQ: that's a great cause for a bug 08:01 jonadab: those are more similar than some of the other examples 08:01 (The -red part is from a word that meant count.) 08:02 c- and h- aren't so different, and nd/nt is an obvious similarity in the core 08:02 this should fix @Methuselah 's game 08:02 ais523: I actually had a check for this, but it was done too late 08:02 c- and h- are _extremely_ different NOW, but there are a ton of examples where they come from the same Indo-European consonant. 08:03 chase, catch and capture all come from Latin capio, and all via French but at different times 08:03 jonadab: I'm guessing Welsh ll- was originally the same too? 08:03 Latin and Greek tend to have the k sound, Germanic languages the h. 08:03 ais523: Dunno. Haven't looked at the history of Welsh, other than knowing that it's classified as Celtic. 08:03 that has similarities to both c and h, it's somewhere in between I think 08:03 llan and glen are the same word, basically (though one now means 'parish' and the other 'valley') 08:04 Ok. I was previously unfamiliar with the word llan. 08:04 @mtf see if this fixes your game too once K2 pushes the update, if not I'll have to look into your game too 08:04 jonadab: vowel change only, hard g 08:04 * raisse not only knows some welsh but also has a daughter who is a graduate student in celtic studies 08:04 huh, Welsh ll actually has its own IPA, /ɬ/ 08:05 ais523: I'm not 100% confident that making monsters able to have their own pets was a good idea 08:05 as in Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch 08:05 in terms of code stability 08:06 I feel like it has the potential to be like long worms 08:06 it might seem OK but has the potential to lead to an endless source of bugs 08:06 FIQ: I'm considerably less than 100% confident :-) 08:07 this depends on how you visualise pets as working, flavourwise 08:07 * raisse now has a vision of hitting a long worm to generate grid bugs 08:07 raisse: it's a pity that that placename was invented for marketing purposes (and seems to have worked quite well) rather than arising "naturally" 08:07 although it's a great name 08:07 yeah 08:07 that sounds like quite a good strategy, actually 08:07 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08 a lot more people have heard of that place than would have done if it had a more normal name 08:08 we have Hendrik Ido Ambacht (its actual modern name) which is historically Hendrik Ido Schiltmanskinderen Groot en Klein Sandelinghen Ambacht 08:09 +raisse │ as in Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch 08:09 I'm not even going to try to pronounce that 08:09 * ais523 wonders how much they lose from the practical downsides of having such a long name, compared to how much they gain in marketing 08:09 "the big sandy field and the little sandy field belonging to Hendrik and Ido, the knight's children" 08:10 place names are awesome when you dig a bit deeper 08:10 heh, did they each take one field? 08:10 ais523: If only a very small number of places do it, the gains might outweigh the downsides. If more places did it, that would cease to be true. 08:10 although the abbreviation "Llanfair PG" is widely seen in cases where saying the whole thing would be ridiculous 08:10 and "Llanfairpwll" in ordinary daily speech 08:11 btw, I just practiced trying to pronounce a ll and I actually got fairly close, I think 08:11 Then there's the question of what the "correct" pronunciation of a place name is. My mom insists, vehemently, that the sloppy/lazy pronunciation locals use when they aren't thinking about it is the correct one, always. 08:11 I'm voicing it a bit more than I should be but it'd probably be intelligible 08:11 There are still plenty of scattered native american names around the US and Canada, though historically there's been a slow change to anglicized names 08:11 a trick that worked for me when I was learning it: put your tongue as if you're going to say 'l', and without moving it, try to say 's' 08:11 jonadab: there was an edit war on Wikipedia about how to pronounce the local river 08:11 So "muh HICK un" for Mohican, "bsarz" for Bucyrus, "eee tun" for Elizabethtown. 08:12 raisse: oh, you're using the blade of the tongue to block the airflow rather than the tip 08:12 that might be easier 08:12 yes, exactly 08:12 yes, that works better 08:12 aosdict: Oh, we've got a *ton* of Algonguin-derived names in the Midwest. 08:12 (according to Wikipedia they both make the same sound, or at least are allophones) 08:12 it's also the tibetan lh (as in Lhasa) 08:13 we have a street here that's called Lange Bisschopstraat but locals only ever say Lange B 08:13 ok 08:13 K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-02-28 08:01 EST: pushed a fix where if a pet tried to tame its master, the game would crash 08:13 strangely, the Korte Bisschopstraat is always called by its ful name 08:13 "Lange B" is clearly an abbreviation, though. 08:13 yes 08:14 Though an argument could be made for "eee-tun" for Elizabethtown being an abbreviation (E town). 08:14 I like "bsarz" 08:15 _Sometimes_ it comes out as "bsarrus", two syllables. 08:15 Or sometime the b is barely audible at all. 09:22 -!- NeroOneTrueKing_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:31 jonadab: your alchemy post on reddit is the best put together alchemy proposal I've seen that doesn't rely on randomizing anything. Though I'm not sure about the adventurer's capability to chug potions of pure alcohol and have no debilitating effects. 09:34 aosdict: this is an old post, I'm guessing? I haven't seen a recent one on the subject 09:34 losing Wis (outright point loss, not abuse) seems like a plausible long-term effect of drinking alcohol, there are probably short ones too 09:35 (although diluted ethanol gives rather different behaviour to most alcoholic drinks, pure ethanol probably even more so) 09:36 ais523: yes from 2016 09:39 I thought drinking pure alcohol would do things like dehydrate your tissues and cause severe damage to your stomach lining 09:40 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:42 aosdict: Drinking pure alcohol is inadvisable, but so is drinking a potion of confusion, if you don't have a unicorn horn handy. 09:42 Also: people do it. 09:42 They're insane, clearly. But they do it. 09:42 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 09:42 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 09:42 Or close enough (e.g., 180 proof). 09:43 the main effect of concentrated ethanol that doesn't occur with less concentrated ethanol appears to be nausea/vomiting 09:43 of course you get all the normal effects of having drunk that much ethanol, too (drunkenness, unconciousness, liver damage…) 09:43 oh, amnesia too 09:43 apart from liver damage, most of these effects already exist in NetHack 09:43 Umm, nausea vomiting occurs with much lower concentrations, including beer, if you drink a lot of it. 09:44 I guess 09:44 Famously so. You can threaten people with having to clean the bathrooms near a beer garden. 09:44 Eww. 09:44 apparently the stomach damage is because ethanol makes the stomach believe there's protein to digest even when there isn't 09:45 Oh? Interesting. 09:45 so it rather stresses the stomach's own internal protections to prevent it digesting itself (given that the body is mostly made of protein…) 09:45 I just sort of assumed it was because the stomach wasn't designed to digest strong solvents (other than water, which doesn't really count as strong in a biology context since everything is built around it). 09:47 the stomach doesn't digest water 09:47 the average lethal dose of ethanol for humans hasn't been accurately measured (presumably for ethical reasons) but is believed to be around half a litre 09:48 I don't think it does anything to alcohol either 09:49 the only alcohol-digesting enzyme in a human is alcohol dehydrogenase, which is mostly found in the liver 09:49 I'm assuming that alcohol ends up in the bloodstream pretty quickly, on the basis that ethanol and water dissolve in each other 09:50 (they're both pretty strong solvents so that's not surprising) 09:50 water even dissolves in itself, although not very well 09:51 (which is the reason why the pH of water is an arbitrary-looking value like 7 rather than a round number) 09:51 can't something like that be figured out without, you know, killing a person? 09:52 FIQ: usually, it's determined by killing mice. but as usual, that's only an approximation. to be certain, you have to verify with humans. 09:53 Yes, alcohol tends to end up in the bloodstream quickly. 09:53 there are of course lots of reports of humans that get into ER with lots of alcohol in their system, but that's not a properly controlled group 09:53 Although there are ways to retard this, e.g., by having a stomach full of fatty foods at the time. 09:53 Or dissolving gelatin in the alcohol. 09:54 FIQ: LD50 is a statistic. The only way to really measure it is experimentally. 09:54 And yeah, you can guesstimate it by pure observation, but it's uncontrolled and not perfectly precise. 09:56 likewise, we don't know the lethal dose of sugar. it's only estimated to be a truckloadful 10:03 Sounds about right. 10:04 Probably depends on exactly how fast you scarf it down. 10:04 If you eat at a normal pace, your body's going to digest a lot of it before you get anywhere near lethal dose. 10:04 Actually, I'm not sure how you'd stay awake long enough to eat a lethal dose of sugar. 10:05 Eating really large amounts of it tends to make you sleepy. 10:05 I suppose you could rig up an IV. 10:05 hmm, I wonder… adrenaline tends to make you more awake, so it's not surprising that insulin (an approximate opposite) would tend to make you sleepier 10:06 and high blood sugar levels would naturally tend to provoke insulin levels to rise to try to counter them 10:11 the LD50 of water is surprisingly low. only 90ml/kg. of course, drinking 6-8 liter in a short enough time is difficult 10:13 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 10:13 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 10:14 That's only a couple of gallons. 10:14 bhaak: it normally only happens when people have been taking illegal drugs, that can confuse their body's idea of how thirsty they are 10:14 but it's a real problem then 10:15 some nightclubs serve free isotonic drinks rather than water in order to avoid the risk of water poisoning 10:15 Wouldn't isotonic drinks taste pretty nasty? 10:15 Though I suppose you could always sell non-free other drinks :-) 10:16 no? they're frequently used in sports 10:16 yeah, there were some cases when the ecstasy drug was all the rage 10:16 they don't normally taste /great/ but it's not necessarily worse than water, after all the solute can be pretty much anything (that's safe for humans to eat) 10:16 Huh. 10:17 and they're sold in shops for the general public to buy 10:17 I think Lucozade Sport is the best known brand name over here, although there are others 10:19 IIRC most brands use glucose as a major component of the solute because they're assuming that you're doing heavy exercise 10:19 (on the basis that the main use for isotonic drinks is to avoid water poisoning in a situation when you're becoming highly dehydrated for other reasons) 10:19 (and thus need to drink something to counter the dehydration, but also that you're likely to be burning a lot of energy) 10:20 I thought the main reason was to replace salt & other electrolytes 10:20 and maybe some glucose for "energy" and flavour 10:21 but otherwise they are no better at rehydration than good old water 10:21 Ah, ok, glucose. 10:21 Yes, if you put a ton of sugar in, you can make almost anything palatable. 10:21 Grasshopper: my understanding is that they're not any better at rehydration itself, but have fewer side effects than water does in situations where you might be drinking a lot 10:22 you can get the same effect via a mix of water and food, but a) that's not always possible while doing a long period of strenuous activity (marathons, etc.), and b) getting the proportions right can be awkward 10:22 ais523, maybe 10:23 generally with marathons the idea is to get water frequently and in small amounts 10:23 bystanders/supporters will often give competitors cups of water to drink and throw as they go 10:23 it's nearly always actually some isotonic drink, not water 10:24 at the official drinking stations, at least 10:24 (in high-end competitions each competitor will have their own, which causes some awkward logistical issues) 10:24 mostly water during the race, isotonics at break stations but marathon runners have special considerations 10:25 eg running out of water, salt, glucose and neurotransmitters 10:25 Do they actually stop at the stations? I was thinking they grabbed a drink on the way past, drank it, and tossed it in a trashcan conveniently provided at the next turn or whatever. 10:25 so isotonics have special place for them 10:25 they don't stop for more than half a second or so 10:25 yeah 10:26 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 10:27 * jonadab contemplates the question of just how long a footrace it would be possible to get athletes to compete in. 10:27 Can we convince them to run from New York to Los Angeles? 10:29 jonadab: it happened, in 1929: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarathon#North_America 10:29 although apparently it wasn't very successful 10:29 Eep. I can imagine not. 10:30 apparently there's a modern race which is even longer, but it's just 5000 laps around a single block in New York 10:30 err, New York state, not the city 10:30 That sounds REALLY boring. 10:30 there was a Sydney-Melbourne running race in AUstralia 10:30 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_to_Melbourne_Ultramarathon 10:31 "repetition 2941 and it looks the same as ever" 10:31 1983-1991 10:31 875km 10:31 most famously won by a 61yo potato farmer 10:31 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 10:33 Extreme biathalon: run from Tiera Del Fuego up to Columbia, swim across the Gulf of Mexico to Florida, run again, then swim the Bering strait... 10:33 Race finishes in Lisbon! 10:34 Maybe it could be a triathalon, and you're allowed to ride a bike across Asia. 10:34 at least it's probably easier than swimming the Atlantic 10:35 although biking through Siberia seems awkward, so maybe you'd want a more southerly route 10:35 Swimming the Atlantic... tell me no fool has actually seriously attempted that. 10:36 I seriously doubt it 10:36 the Bering strait's almost certainly been done, though, it's not that far at the closest point so the main issue would be temperature 10:36 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynne_Cox 10:38 hmm, apparently she swam it much faster than she swam the English Channel, which also isn't all that large as these things go 10:39 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:46 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 10:49 -!- Tarmunora__ has joined #hardfought 10:52 -!- Tarmunora_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:57 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 11:11 Right, straits like that are feasible. 11:12 For a serious athlete. 11:12 The Atlantic... doesn't really have any points narrow enough to be safe to attempt. 11:13 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 11:13 Among other things, the distance is such that it's not reasonable to stay awake the whole time. And sleeping while swimming the open ocean does not strike me as a good idea. 11:15 I'm not saying it _couldn't_ be done, but you'd have to be a loon (or extremely desperate) to try it. 11:20 !rng play slex | play Nethack Fourk 11:20 LarienTelrunya: Message from @riker at 2018-02-27 11:26 EST: add to slex plz: https://pastebin.com/ag9NzE08 11:20 LarienTelrunya: play Nethack Fourk 11:21 !tell riker thanks, those will go into the random messages pool :) 11:21 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 11:21 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:46043 11:21 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Mon Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:46044 11:24 -!- FredrIQ has joined #hardfought 11:24 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o FredrIQ] by ChanServ 11:24 -!- earenndil has quit [*.net *.split] 11:24 -!- FIQ has quit [*.net *.split] 11:24 -!- FredrIQ is now known as FIQ 11:27 !tell riker thanks for making the role/race list for slex; some recently added ones are missing though :P salamander for example, and probably the others from commit fa7b9e8 as well 11:27 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 11:40 <@riker> oh, really? 11:40 @riker: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-02-28 11:21 EST: thanks, those will go into the random messages pool :) 11:40 @riker: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-02-28 11:27 EST: thanks for making the role/race list for slex; some recently added ones are missing though :P salamander for example, and probably the others from commit fa7b9e8 as well 11:40 <@riker> I took it from role.c 11:40 <@riker> is the default branch not up to date 11:47 riker: the master branch is up to date 11:47 <@riker> hm 11:47 <@riker> I took that list from src/role.c 11:48 <@riker> and just regex'd it to bits 11:48 <@riker> iirc I just took all matches of {\t{"(.+?)" 11:49 well, maybe you do have an old role.c; grep it for "levelscaler" 11:49 if that's not there then it's not up to date 11:49 <@riker> I had that 11:49 <@riker> I copied this from the github >_> 11:50 https://pastebin.com/raw/uShsaBdi does not have levelscaler though 11:50 <@riker> didn't use that 11:50 <@riker> I took that from a diff place 11:50 <@riker> I realized that wasn't right 11:50 oh, so the actual list used by Beholder does have it? 11:50 <@riker> iirc that was from the role/racial techs/abilities, I realized some don't have those, 11:50 <@riker> probably 11:50 !race amy's weird thing 11:50 LarienTelrunya: No variant amy's on server. 11:50 <@riker> yep 11:50 <@riker> !race amy's-weird-thing 11:50 @riker: sinner 11:51 <@riker> :D 11:51 !race shitty meme form simulator 2018 11:51 LarienTelrunya: No variant shitty on server. 11:51 ugh, wanted to type "fork simulator" 11:51