00:07 could extend this YANI to other wands: if you're wielding a wand which matches the spell, the failure rate is reduced even further. 00:18 -!- rumflump has quit [Quit: rumflump] 00:48 aosdict: I could see a wand reducing spell fail for the related spell 00:57 -!- _catalyst_ has joined #hardfought 01:44 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:46 :P 01:46 LarienTelrunya: Message from jonadab at 2018-02-25 21:01 EST: Sorry, object-pile hilighting is region-locked to North America and also doesn't work for samurai. 01:47 !tell jonadab are sane quicktravel algorithms also region-locked to north america and banned for samurai? 01:47 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 01:47 !tell jonadab also, seriously, how do you solve sokoban in fourk? do every move manually? because the quicktravel command *always* pushes boulders into corners! it should be changed to treat boulders as if they were solid walls, then everything would be fine! 01:47 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:14 -!- Tarmunora has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:15 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:16 -!- Tarmunora has joined #hardfought 02:19 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has joined #hardfought 02:20 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 02:30 !tell aosdict you wanted to know how much I like Nethack Fourk, right? behold: https://github.com/SLASHEM-Extended/SLASHEM-Extended/commit/373cfe5022384cc5f1d461e82f7a5ef26ec10b82 :) 02:30 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:33 LarienTelrunya: it takes 7 wand zaps 02:33 from unskilled to basic 02:33 FIQ: well I'm a samurai, and apparently they either start at basic or reach it quickly; I want to reach skilled, how many zaps does it take? 02:33 20 02:33 ah 02:34 so I guess that wand of light I spam-zapped just didn't have enough charges :P (are you supposed to spam-zap worthless wands until the skill finally goes up?) 02:34 Yes, if you're impatient 02:35 !tell K2 SLEX 2.1.7 update (save-compatible) ready at the current master branch! ♥ :) 02:35 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:42 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:47 -!- ProzacElf has joined #hardfought 02:48 hi ProzacElf 02:48 hi FIQ 02:48 * LarienTelrunya celebrates the arrival of the ultimate bundle hare in this wonderful channel ♥ 02:49 !who 02:49 FIQ: [hdf-us] DemoBot [nh] Rune [dnh] ardanks [4k] 02:49 FIQ: [hdf-eu] No current players 02:49 !asc demobot 02:49 FIQ: demobot has ascended 16 times in 335 games (4.78%): nh:16 (4.78%) 02:49 aww, ardanks was playing slex 5 minutes ago... I guess he read my "I ♥ Nethack Fourk" commit and decided to see what all the fuss is about :D 02:49 [hdf-us] [dnh] Rune (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 473 points, T:1842, choked on a newt corpse 02:50 huh, elenmirie uses AdiIRC 02:50 back when I tried it, it was a very unstable POS 02:50 but that was very early in its development 02:50 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 02:50 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 02:51 !tell jonadab please consider making it so that if I have a stack of known +0 shuriken in my inventory (from the automatic appraisal at skilled) and then drop and pick up the not known +0 stack, it gets merged onto the known +0 stack because really, it should appraise the whole stack and not just the one I threw 02:51 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:52 heh 02:53 i tried a client called hydraIRC a while back 02:53 it sucked, but it also automatically highlighted/pinged you every time the word hydra was said 02:53 which was very annoying in any crawl-related channel 02:55 !tell jonadab also, expert dual-wielding for samurai when :D (yeah I know, expert dual-wielding is probably banned in east asia or something) 02:55 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:56 banned in eastasia? 02:56 we were always at war with eastasia 02:56 the only reason I tried adiirc back in the day was its mIRC scripting compatibility 02:56 was interested in how complete it was 02:57 back then it failed at even basic evaluation behaviour 02:57 heh 02:58 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:00 ProzacElf │ it sucked, but it also automatically highlighted/pinged you every time the word hydra was said 03:00 10/10 feature 03:00 totally 03:07 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:13 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 03:13 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 03:27 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 03:27 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 03:32 [hdf-us] [dnh] Rune (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 786 points, T:2644, killed by a horned devil 04:30 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 04:30 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 04:31 -!- raisse is now known as raissehh 04:36 -!- raissehh is now known as raisse 05:10 ooh, nice! 05:10 all I wanted was to dilute my potion of sickness! 05:11 got it +3, too! 05:11 and my potion of sickness is diluted (though not all the way to water, because the fountain dried up) 05:12 gehennom without fire resistance is a real drag 05:12 eek 05:12 conduct or bad luck? 05:12 bad luck... I've eaten loads of fire ants, hell hound pups etc 05:12 wish for a tin of red dragon meat? 05:13 I might, if this carries on much longer 05:13 I don't recall seeing a red dragon even in the healer quest 05:13 I remember a game in which my first castle-wand wish was a tin of green dragon meat 05:16 ok, now that I finally know what a scroll of magic mapping looks like, time to go find Vlad's 05:22 this might actually be a successful orc wiz 05:25 The bugbear is caught in a bear trap! 05:30 Cat! It's okay to kill watchmen but please don't do it in the shop. 05:32 two hell hound pups in Vlad's. Neither left a corpse 05:32 yay won the tengu lottery 05:32 corpse in minetown icebox 05:32 also the elf lottery 05:32 wow, you're on a roll! 05:32 now don't splat 05:33 I don't intend to 05:33 :) 05:35 ooh, this monkeytown actually has a general store so I can sell all that watchmen stuff 05:38 one of the watchman had a +3 helmet 05:38 better than my +1 hard hat 05:38 Blecch! Rotten food! You hear someone beseeching Thoth. 05:39 "Thoth! The food here's not fit for Orcs!" 05:39 Thoth! This food is awful! 05:39 * raisse is an orc, obviously 05:39 hehe 05:40 Cat! You may be a large cat but please leave the watch captain alone. 05:40 other cat found a levelporter on the previous mines level 05:40 silly cat 05:50 yay, a red dragon 05:50 in Rodney's tower 05:50 brrr, a momentary chill! 05:53 !tell riker I managed to kill the elder priest! http://i.4cdn.org/vg/1519642379079.png :D 05:53 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 05:54 yay! 05:54 yummy! 06:00 now my *other* cat has found the levelporter. 06:01 ooh a holdybag 06:05 woo! 06:10 You feel very lethargic. Wizard, your life force is running out. 06:11 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:13 eep! 06:15 I wrote Elbereth, even though I'm an orc 06:15 was at 3/67 HP with soldier ants around 06:16 (oracle level) 06:24 this dungeon is full of coaligned altars 06:24 two on this level! 06:25 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Mon Hum Mal Neu) wished for "3 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:29767 06:28 now I can do soko for only the wands and rings 06:29 that's always nice 06:29 woo, tin of gelatinous cube made me feel full of hot air 06:34 I know I have a magic lamp because this one is a different type than the other one 06:34 just don't know which is which 06:34 there's 1 general store in this game until now (the tiny one in minetown) 06:36 So turn both lamps on. One will run out of oil. 06:36 jonadab: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-02-26 01:47 EST: are sane quicktravel algorithms also region-locked to north america and banned for samurai? 06:36 jonadab: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-02-26 01:47 EST: also, seriously, how do you solve sokoban in fourk? do every move manually? because the quicktravel command *always* pushes boulders into corners! it should be changed to treat boulders as if they were solid walls, then everything would be fine! 06:36 jonadab: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-02-26 02:51 EST: please consider making it so that if I have a stack of known +0 shuriken in my inventory (from the automatic appraisal at skilled) and then drop and pick up the not known +0 stack, it gets merged onto the known +0 stack because really, it should appraise the whole stack and not just the one I threw 06:36 jonadab: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-02-26 02:55 EST: also, expert dual-wielding for samurai when :D (yeah I know, expert dual-wielding is probably banned in east asia or something) 06:38 LarienTelrunya: the boulder thing is a bug, but it's a long-standing upstream NH4 bug, resulting from UIM rewrite. Also happens with capital-letter movement. I've never encountered it in Sokoban, but it happens to me _all the time_ in the main dungeon, and yes, it's annoying. But it's a uim bug, and that code is horrible spaghetti all over the codebase that I don't understand. 06:38 LarienTelrunya: I'd be willing to accept patches for that bug, for sure. 06:39 LarienTelrunya: The shuriken thing is also a bug, but that's from either FIQHack or Fourk, and much more recent. I'm making a note of it in my TODO file, and a comment in the source. Not sure if the ideal solution (appraising the whole stack) will be possible, I have to look at how long the call chain is and how many function calls will need their argument list changed. 06:40 If it's only a handful, I'll fix it properly. 06:40 Otherwise, I may need to do some horrific kludge, like abusing the corpsenm field or something. 06:42 Actually, not sure if that will work, an int may not always be large enough to hold a pointer. 06:42 Hmm. 06:42 Well, I'll look at the call stack first in any case. 06:43 jonadab: the bug doesn't exist in FIQHack 06:43 Hmm, hmon_hitmon, the function where the appraisal happens, is only called from two places, that is encouraging. 06:43 FIQ: Which? The appraisal not doing the whole stack? 06:43 mhm 06:43 I don't remember if I implemented appraisal myself or cherry-picked it from you. 06:43 I was thinking I got it from you, but maybe not. 06:44 well 06:44 it does happen in FIQHack 06:44 but it allows merging partial enchantment knowledge 06:44 Ah. 06:44 I definitely haven't messed with that. 06:44 But wait. 06:44 Doesn't NH4 allow that? 06:44 No, that's BUC. 06:45 Answered my own question. It was BUC because I complained about dropping bags on altars, that I would have to take OUT all the daggers and gems and whatnot that I didn't want beatitude-identified so they'd stack. 06:47 EPI: weapon tools, notably pick-axes, can be generated cursed and negatively enchanted. Including when they're generated in dwarf inventory. 06:48 No, wait, I was looking at this wrong. hmon_hitmon is only called in _one_ place. 06:48 this can already happen 06:48 From hmon() 06:48 yeah, by hmon 06:48 nethack function names 06:49 jonadab: ah, good :) if it's on the to-do list, there's the chance that a fix will be developed eventually! unfortunately I'm not familiar with the nh4 codebase so I don't know where exactly it causes quicktravel to push boulders 06:49 hmon() is called 12 places. 06:50 the boulder thing even happens in slex so I don't get the complaining 06:50 LarienTelrunya: That (the boulder pushing thing) has been on the TODO list for a long time, in the "problematic" section, i.e., ones I probably need help to fix. 06:50 Wait, really? 06:50 I thought NH4's uim rewrite introduced that. 06:50 well, the boulder vs sokoban thing 06:50 yes, farmoving can move boulders 06:50 not just in NH4 06:50 NH4 does have its own boulder problem 06:50 with farmoving 06:50 FIQ: what? I constantly use quicktravel in slexoban, especially in the bag of holding level, and it has never pushed a boulder. 06:50 Really? Huh. Interesting. 06:50 jonadab: yes, that's what I was thkinking of doing (with the lamps) 06:50 in that if a boulder moves, you don't 06:51 * LarienTelrunya wizmodes 06:51 LarienTelrunya: it most definitely happen when I farmove 06:51 note that I use HJKLYUBN though 06:51 pre-NH4 move behaviour is... weird 06:51 and inconsistent 06:51 okay, wizmode: if I 5-direction into a boulder in slexoban, I don't move at all 06:52 it has like 8 modes of operation 06:52 I think she was using travel (_). Which is weird to use in Sokoban, but whatever. The fact that it moves boulders is a bug for sure regardless. 06:52 by various combinations of shift, control and prefixes 06:52 if I try to quicktravel to a spot that's behind a boulder in slexoban, I also don't move at all 06:52 no she uses 5 06:52 which I think is a different move handler than shift+direction 06:52 in NH3 06:52 it might not push boulders 06:52 It has a different UIM value. 06:53 there is 9 different movement modes 06:53 The list of UIM values is too long and confusing, but that's another issue. 06:53 they're h, H, fh, FH, ff+, ff-, FF+, FF-, travel, 06:53 -, 06:54 FIQ: even if I G-direction in slexoban, the boulders aren't pushed 06:54 LarienTelrunya: shift+direction 06:54 like 06:54 hold shift 06:54 Also, LarienTelrunya, boulders should be treated not as _walls_, but as _traps_, i.e., if there's no other way around, travel should go ahead and approach but stop short of them. 06:54 then press l 06:54 for example 06:54 FIQ: ah, that requires vikeys 06:54 it is easily the major reason for using vikey movement 06:54 yes, yes 06:54 but it is much more convenient! 06:54 my point is 06:55 Treating them as walls would mean it wouldn't even plan a route in that direction, even if it's the only way through, which would be wrong. 06:55 NH3 has 9 different movement modes 06:55 players really only use 3 06:55 regular move, one of the 7 different farmove modes, or travel 06:55 oh, I see, L (shift-l) with vikeys does indeed move the boulder 06:55 NH4 consolidated them 06:55 good thing I use the number pad :P but I guess it is a bug or at least an annoyance and should be fixed 06:55 there's only 2 different ones now 06:55 g+direction and shift+direction 06:56 plain-direction counts. 06:56 the former is similar to 5+direction 06:56 Though that doesn't farmove, I guess, just one tile move. 06:56 anyway, after this, numpad-style movement still didn't move boulders 06:56 I think 06:56 however, later on 06:56 ais523 rewrote uim 06:57 and broke boulder behaviour completely during farmove 06:57 resulting in what you see 06:57 In fairness to ais523, I double-dare anyone to rewrite that code without messing some stuff up. 06:57 I'm not sure if ais523 did a good job or not 06:58 That code, *after* his work, looks rather messy 06:58 But I haven't seen the NH3 code 06:58 Perhaps not, but it was a difficult thing to do, is my point. And the rewrite _did_ fix some bugs. It just, introduced different ones. Several of them.) 06:58 It was probably even worse 06:58 It's just... Nothing has caused more bugs, other than the muxy panic 06:59 I suspect the only reason uim hasn't been rewritten in NH4 as many times as the message/more code has, is because it's more apparently daunting, i.e., people look at that code and KNOW they aren't going to get it right. 06:59 And I don't just mean in NH4 06:59 I mean in variants too 06:59 how hard could it be 06:59 Whereas message/more, people go "how hard could it be" and try to fix it. 07:00 well ok 07:00 it's not that easy, but 07:00 how can you mess up in the kind of ways ais did 07:00 FIQ: Are you considering rewriting the uim code? 07:00 the bugs are... weird 07:00 yes 07:00 Yes, the bugs are weird. 07:00 multiple times 07:00 jonadab: I mean 07:01 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:01 All 3 modes of movement should handle all but a few tiles identically 07:01 If you're gonna rewrite uim, kindly do it _before_ I rebase, so I don't have to merge uim rewrite _again_ :-) 07:01 And yet they aren't remotely alike 07:39 [hdf-us] [nd] Eleven (Sam Hum Mal Law), 3744 points, T:4258, killed by a soldier ant 07:40 argh, got blinded 07:41 didn't have telepathy yet 07:41 and it was on the level with the quest portal so no bones 08:19 -!- _catalyst_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:21 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:22 [hdf-us] [gh] arnibald (Pri Hum Mal Neu) killed Nalzok, on T:28647 08:22 [hdf-us] [gh] arnibald (Pri Hum Mal Neu) picked up the Bell of Opening, on T:28648 08:46 hi 08:46 Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought 08:46 K2: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-02-26 02:35 EST: SLEX 2.1.7 update (save-compatible) ready at the current master branch! ♥ :) 09:04 [hdf-us] [nh] pavelek (Sam Hum Mal Law), 32949 points, T:4259, killed by a wolf 09:09 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: *bundlebundlebundle*] 09:10 [hdf-us] [nd] Eleven (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 2955 points, T:6627, killed by a dwarf king 09:20 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:22 -!- hothraxxa has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:23 -!- rumflump has joined #hardfought 09:26 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 09:38 note to self: do not report a bug to PatR if you are working on anything related to that 09:38 aosdict: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-02-26 02:30 EST: you wanted to know how much I like Nethack Fourk, right? behold: https://github.com/SLASHEM-Extended/SLASHEM-Extended/commit/373cfe5022384cc5f1d461e82f7a5ef26ec10b82 :) 09:40 [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Wiz Syl Fem Cha) entered the Minetown temple, on T:2154 09:41 -!- hothraxxa has joined #hardfought 09:42 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v hothraxxa] by ChanServ 09:45 yasi: confused scrolls of punishment should let you punish other monsters with divine anger 09:49 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:57 -!- rumflump has quit [Quit: rumflump] 10:04 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 10:22 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:25 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:25 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 10:26 -!- raisse has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:26 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 10:26 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v theRaisse] by ChanServ 10:33 <@Tone> 'grats elenmirie 😄 10:33 thanks! 10:42 aosdict: why? 10:42 because now I'm cleaning up a very messy merge conflict in pager.c 10:43 heh 11:32 FIQ btw, if you have any interest in my commits, that is basically what the #xnethack channel is doing at the moment 11:43 -!- oh6_ has joined #hardfought 11:43 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v oh6_] by ChanServ 11:47 [hdf-us] [gh] arnibald (Pri Hum Mal Neu) killed Medusa, on T:30008 12:24 -!- oh6_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:41 <@riker> !streak mtf 12:41 @riker: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-02-26 05:53 EST: I managed to kill the elder priest! http://i.4cdn.org/vg/1519642379079.png :D 12:41 @riker: No streaks for mtf. 12:41 [hdf-us] [nd] Eleven (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 1717 points, T:4640, killed by a pony, while praying 12:41 <@riker> congrats amy 13:34 [hdf-us] [nd] Eleven (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 814 points, T:2489, killed by a soldier ant 13:51 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 14:03 oh, man, I had a cursed luckstone 14:05 <@riker> elenmirie: tha'ts the kinda thing you check after you start to pray :) 14:05 I didn't know... it must have been sitting on a trap, but I didn't twig on that 14:06 hadn't found an altar yet 14:06 <@riker> !lastgame elenmirie 14:06 @riker: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/e/elenmirie/nhdev/dumplog/1512828788.nhdev.txt 14:06 @riker: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/e/elenmirie/nhdev/dumplog/1519670608.nhdev.txt 14:12 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 14:15 Evil Patch Idea: Cleaver can occasionally be generated as a meat cleaver, i.e. a knife instead of a battleaxe. 14:17 aosdict: The spell of identify, being infinitely renewable, has been rather 14:17 harshly nerfed: it now always identifies one item. 14:17 are you sure this is a good idea 14:17 it sounds good in theory, but wont that just make things much more annoying? 14:17 since it means users will just have to cast the spell 20 times instead of 5-10 14:18 <@riker> aosdict: can you link your yani page? I lost it 14:18 this is why I was *not* a fan of the 3.6.x nerf to it 14:22 3.6.0 nerfed identify? 14:23 I think if the spell of identify is going to be nerfed, it should only type-identify. 14:23 Or else have a higher spell level. 14:23 jonadab: I prefer my own nerf for this reason. It doesn't matter how many times you cast the spell with your current skill, you aren't going to learn more about the object 14:23 Why does identify spell need a nerf in the first place. 14:24 That's the question that anyone trying to nerf it should answer _first_. 14:25 Mandevil: For myself, a while ago, I wanted to make scrolls less frustrating to use by discouraging hoarding ID scrolls to mass-bless them. I was going to do this by changing to how they work in DynaHack. Nobody seemed to like this for some reason, so instead I changed it so that it IDed different info based on BUC. Then I nerfed the spell to be consistent 14:26 FIQ: But aren't you just frustrating players with this? 14:26 FIQ: It takes more effort to play the id game. 14:26 FIQ: Which I don't think needs making any harder. 14:26 Mandevil: THe base type of something is the *very basic thing* you get 14:27 Additional info such as charges, enchantment, require higher skill or BUC 14:27 Mandevil: The argument for nerfing the spell of ID is not specific to ID. It runs like this: "using a consumable should be at least as powerful as casting the equivalent infinitely renewable spell". 14:27 At cursed or unskilled, you get base type only 14:27 FIQ: Well, that doesn't sound that bad. 14:27 "And usually more powerful." 14:28 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 14:28 At uncursed/basic, you get charges/enchantment and object property 14:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] Rune (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 350 points, T:1233, killed by an invisible water demon 14:28 FIQ: would you prefer I remove the identify spell entirely, because that is also planned 14:28 At skilled, you get BUC 14:28 jonadab: Just a note: in DCSS, they totally removed any redundancy in scrolls/potions/spells effects. 14:28 <@Tone> Is it for only one item, FIQ? 14:28 At expert/blessed, you also get erodeproofness 14:28 <@Tone> Uncursed identify that is 14:28 Some effects are only scrolls, some are only spells, some are only potions. 14:28 @Tone No, that is the thing. I made it so that *any* BUC always ID 1/2/3/4/all 14:29 That is why I made the change in first place 14:29 I didn't want to make users feel that they had to wait until they could bless the scroll 14:29 FIQ: I didn't know how FIQhack works, this change sounds rather sane to me. 14:29 @riker https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Phol_ende_wodan/YANI/IRC_archive (also pages at /YANI and at /YANI/YASI) 14:29 <@Tone> Cool, I like the direction you went with that FIQ 14:29 Mandevil: I was complaining about aosdict's own change 14:29 Mandevil: That seems over the top. I don't mind having a consumable and a spell that do similar things, but _the consumable should be the more powerful of the two_. 14:29 FIQ: Though I still raise the objection that it's making the id game more difficult. 14:29 e.g., I don't want spell of extra healing to raise max HP. 14:30 Which was to nerf it so that you can only ID 1 object, always, not more, from the spell 14:30 Which doesn't make the ID game harder at all 14:30 It just makes it much more annoying 14:30 jonadab: I totally agree with DCSS here. 14:30 I don't like the 3.6 nerf in first place 14:30 jonadab: Powerful effects are only consumables. 14:30 (it nerfed it so that you ID 1 80% of the time or something like that) 14:30 <@riker> ty aosdict 14:31 FIQ: My disagreement with the FIQHack change is twofold: you often only care about the base item in the first place, and at Expert identify scrolls break consumable/renewable. 14:31 FIQ: However, your point about my nerf is valid. 14:31 aosdict: "identify scrolls break consumable/renewable" What? 14:31 What does that mean? 14:32 you said that in fiqhack, expert spell of ID will not hold back any information about the things it identifies? 14:32 Mandevil: How does my change make the ID game more difficult? If anything it makes it *easier* 14:32 Unless you're playing caster or something 14:32 Oh, I remember someone saying that I loved casters and everything had to be caster buffs 14:32 Don't remember who that was though 14:33 FIQ: Maybe I don't fully understand your change. 14:33 Mandevil: See 14:33 FIQ: But it seems that you're now getting less for the same effort. 14:33 If we ignore the spell for a moment 14:33 Yeah, this is convincing me that there should not be any sort of renewable type-ID in the game at all. 14:33 aosdict: That's how DCSS has it. 14:34 aosdict: There used to be identify spell, but it was removed. 14:34 I'd much rather forego BUC on 1/2/3/4/all 14:34 over having BUC, but very likely only IDing a single item 14:34 Which is how uncursed ID works in vanilla 14:34 I wanted to not force users to wait until they can bless the scroll of ID 14:35 So I chose a different approach to how to scale it instead 14:35 I see. 14:35 Seems like a valid way of thinking about it. 14:35 <@Tone> I'd probably never bless identify scrolls with that system 14:35 FIQ: what is your change for blessed-ID? 14:36 But yes, the spell change was strictly a nerf. I don't agree with aosdict on it being overpowered, allthough I did feel that it was a bit too strong 14:36 One interesting bit of history 14:36 Back in the day, ID used to be a level 5 spell 14:36 And it still is, in SLASH'EM 14:36 I hold that renewable type-ID destroys most of the ID "game" 14:37 aosdict: But many characters can never cast it. 14:37 The Wizard Patch reduced it to level 3 in its final version (SLASH'EM merged a "beta") 14:37 aosdict: And you can live without it just fine. 14:37 Right. 14:37 Similarly, blessed ID mechanics as they work in vanilla also tend to destroy most of the ID game, in which you end up not using stuff until you can ID it. 14:38 This is why ID is level 5 in SLASH'EM and level 3 in 3.4.3 14:38 It was actually not a change SLASH'EM did 14:38 How about just removing it? 14:38 And adding it as #invoke power to some quest arti? 14:38 "it" = spell? Or scroll? 14:38 I wouldn't support removing the scroll. 14:38 The spell. 14:39 Yeah. 14:39 I like the spell, but I'm not going to try to stop anyone from removing it 14:39 (Mostly because I find it convenient) 14:39 because it destroys the ID game :P 14:39 shhh 14:40 oh and fh makes it level 2, yeah 14:40 [hdf-us] [dnh] Rune (Bin Hum Mal Non), 157 points, T:418, killed by a newt 14:40 yes, but nerfs it 14:40 anyway, yeah, seems like removing +oID outright is better than having it identify one thing and make the ID game tedious 14:40 brb 14:41 aosdict: Or just have it not be able to ID everything 14:41 as in, have stuff that it consistently can't ID 14:42 <[Demo]> remove identification as a mechanic 14:42 Make it... dunno Orb of Detection #invoke power. 14:42 <[Demo]> make everything come indentified 14:42 Or Heart of Ahriman. 14:42 To replace their meh powers. 14:42 orb of detection is more flavourful here 14:42 by far 14:42 Agreed. 14:43 <@riker> I like the heart's uncurse 14:43 <@riker> fits great with cleaver in the endgame 14:44 rld: Is that in FIQhack? 14:45 no 14:45 it is in several variants, but not fh 14:46 I think in UnNetHack the Heart of Ahriman gives Pw regen. 14:46 yes 14:46 Which is pretty ironic. 14:46 <@riker> I don't get pinged by rld mandevil 14:46 and I never understood that 14:46 it made no sense to me 14:46 Given how little use barbies have for magic. 14:46 <@riker> this is a person on the other side of rld :p 14:46 yeah lol 14:46 <@riker> ^ 14:46 FIQ: There's one use I found for that. 14:46 Mandevil: use @riker 14:46 <@riker> I feel like it was a shit buff to make it wishable for wiz 14:46 <@riker> ^ 14:46 rld is a Discord gateway 14:47 <@riker> iirc there was something on the heart wiki page or smth 14:47 more than just riker on the other side 14:47 Oh. 14:47 @riker ...actually yeah that would make sense as a reason to suggest it 14:47 It's nice for teleport at will. 14:47 a very *bad* reason, but still 14:47