00:18 [hdf-us] [slex] Rune (Pol Spe Fem Neu), 1997 points, T:868, killed by a monster (hallucinogen-distorted Mr. Bandjar, the shopkeeper) 00:21 -!- rumflump has joined #hardfought 00:56 -!- aaron__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:31 -!- rumflump has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:41 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:41 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 01:42 -!- raisse has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 02:00 K2: thanks for updating slex :) 02:01 jonadab: "Bluescreen" was the nickname I originally used and obviously that one's taken, but "AmyBSOD" is a much better nick anyway :D 02:31 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 02:31 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 02:41 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:54 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 02:54 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 03:02 K2: I don't remember any change for artiwishing. but remember, there are usually 1 or 2 artifacts at 1ES. so don't go there if you want to wish for one 03:02 bhaak: Message from K2 at 2018-02-20 22:00 EST: does unnethack nerf artifact wishing or quest artifact wishing in any way (other than thiefbane) ? 03:05 changing artiwishing itself would be inline with unnethack's philosophy. a restriction of roles for certain artifacts, or like don't allow quest artifact wishing. but I'd say that with the changes to wishing, it's already enough 03:29 -!- LarienTelrunya_ has joined #hardfought 03:31 LarienTelrunya: I think you should switch to BlueScreenOfPain 03:32 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:32 -!- LarienTelrunya_ is now known as LarienTelrunya 03:32 hahaha :D 03:43 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 03:43 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 03:46 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:56 !tell K2 pushed updates: attribute abuse can no longer be recovered with attribute restoration. Also, unihorns were changed, mostly nerfed 04:56 Will do, FIQ! 05:13 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 05:25 !tell riker someone actually managed to get tentacled by the elder priest: https://em.slashem.me/userdata/Coolfrog/slex/dumplog/1519206880.txt :D 05:25 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 05:28 LarienTelrunya: I nerfed unihorns :3 05:28 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Unicorn_horn#FIQHack 05:28 yeah, I saw that... dexterity abuse (from being satiated) ahoy 05:28 don't be satiated 05:28 problem solved 05:29 slex reduced the impact of being satiated on dex training by a factor 50 :P 05:29 also, it seems that every nethack variant (that isn't slex) absolutely has to remove attibute restoration from unihorns for some reason 05:30 apparently that's an unwritten law, "if you want to make a renowned, well-known nethack variant then your unihorns may not restore attributes" or something 05:31 slex nerfs that too you know 05:31 so you can't complain 05:31 yes, but the slex nerf is better :P 05:31 no, because I can't choose not to try to restore attributes 05:31 allthough it isn't as bad as in Fourk 05:31 oh, is it? does slashem as well? I don't remember sporkhack doing that. 05:32 oh, you can, because I made it so that if you have confusion or something it will always fix that first. SLEX unihorns only restore attributes if there's no other stuff to fix. That change was made relatively recently. 05:32 bhaak: unnethack, dnethack, slex (kind of), fiqhack, and 4k has a similar change 05:32 LarienTelrunya: ah 05:32 I suggested a similar thing to jonadab a while back 05:32 he never bothered D: 05:33 but yeah, it used to be so that you couldn't choose to not restore an attribute, and at that point the slex system was admittedly rather shitty :D 05:33 the issue with 4k is that it will still restore attributes, but doing so will disenchant the unihorn per point 05:33 and you can't choose not to restore something 05:33 yeah that sounds ultra annoying 05:33 anyway, lunchtime, gonna be back in an hour or so :) 05:39 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Ring_of_sustain_ability 05:39 You could use it to fix your stats if you abuse them a lot (bad idea). A similar effect can be had by saving and restoring every 800 moves. 05:39 What is this referencing? 05:42 the latter sentence? 05:43 looks like the "when do we check if attributes should increase or decrease" counter isn't persisted. 05:43 so you can save and load and your attributes won't change for another fresh period of 800 moves 05:43 yeah that is what I read it as too 05:44 which sounds rather... stupid 05:44 and the wiki just casually mentions this 05:44 many exploits in nethack are stupid :) 05:44 instead of, say, reporting it 05:49 !time 05:49 jonadab: Wed Feb 21 05:49:31 2018 EST 05:50 [hdf-us] [nh] pavelek (Val Hum Fem Law), 182 points, T:175, killed by a magic missile 05:52 FIQ: A lot of the wiki was written during the period of time when a lot of the online NetHack community was convinced there was no point talking to the Dev Team. 05:52 You know, the pre-leak era. 05:52 <[Demo]> there is no point in talking to the dev team 05:53 technically, you are talking to a part of it, if you are talking to me, paxed, or lorimer 05:53 if there is no point to that, is another question :) 05:53 <[Demo]> im not sure why that just seems inflammatory and im feeling fiesty this morning so i said it 05:54 bhaak: Yes, but a lot of the wiki was written before that was so. 05:54 <[Demo]> im not sure what the argument there is 05:55 During the era when the other Pat's occasional posts on rgrn were the only solid evidence that the Dev Team hadn't ceased to _exist_. 05:56 the sporadic replies to the bug reports are of the same kind of evidence 05:56 pat's reaction to nitrohack has forever sealed him as one of those "but muh K&R" devteam members 05:56 to me 05:56 he replied to nitrohack by flaming the developer for dropping support for old platforms 05:56 I do not feel that this post was ok, but meh 05:57 [Demo]: I didn't take it as inflammatory, just to make it "technically correct". you know, the best kind of correct 05:57 Bear in mind, NitroHack didn't _only_ drop support for the platforms nobody can actually in practice support any more. It dropped everything except Windows and Unix. 05:57 FIQ: he flamed unnethack because I added the vampire race :-D 05:57 <[Demo]> this guy sounds fun 05:57 jonadab: yeah but 05:57 generally 05:58 There are a handful of marginal platforms that are potentially still supportable, that NH4 doesn't support. 05:58 if you're part of a team that is considered rather inactive 05:58 Amiga, DOS, VMS. 05:58 flaming developers who try to help 05:58 <[Demo]> is extra funny 05:58 is generally not a good way to handle things 05:58 Ah. 05:58 Well, yes. 05:59 if you make a variant, there is no obligation to support more than the system you develop on. not even that. just because you commit doesn't mean that the code even runs 05:59 But I can't really blame any Dev Team member who wants to retain support for still-supportable platforms. 05:59 jonadab: there is a major difference between that 05:59 and outright flaming someone 05:59 FIQ: in the special case of nitrohack, I'm not sure how much help it was in the long run. too many rewrites were necessary :-) 05:59 who probably don't even have the given platforms 06:00 The ones I disagree with are the ones who oppose any move to ANSI C because there _theoretically_ _might_ be a platform out there somewhere with no ANSI C compiler. Which is nonsense. 06:00 <[Demo]> amy has the right idea 06:00 FIQ: Yes, true. 06:00 <[Demo]> you cant flame slex cause itll flame u back harder 06:00 oh you can flame slex 06:00 You don't _have_ to flame slex. In fact, there's no point. 06:00 oh, there was just recently a mail to the devteam list about somone running OpenVMS and sending in patches for 3.6 :-D 06:00 but why would you 06:00 Anything negative you say about it will be taken as praise anyhow. 06:00 bhaak: yeah I saw that 06:01 but I'm fairly sure VMS can handle ANSI 06:01 bhaak: I listed VMS as one of the still theoretically supportable platforms. 06:01 It has a sufficiently active hobbyist community, and runs on sufficiently recent hardware, that it's feasible. 06:01 VMS and DOS are probably the most likely candidates for continued support 06:01 VMS, DOS, Amiga. 06:01 there are also platforms like the Amiga, who has the *theoretical* capabilities to run something 06:01 but who lack relevant devteam members 06:02 (Amiga's older than VMS but has a more active hobby community. DOS is easy because DJGPP.) 06:02 (And because it runs on the easiest hardware to emulate.) 06:02 I think 3.6 ought to run just fine on Amiga, but I don't think anyone has actually tried 06:02 Probably true. 06:03 But note that Amiga doesn't count as a reason to stay K&R. Amiga has ANSI C compilers. 06:03 right 06:03 I'm not sure if there is *any* platform atm who has the *specs* to run 3.6 but who can't handle ANSI 06:04 If there are, they're so obscure that the gcc people don't consider them worth supporting. 06:04 Which ought to tell you something. 06:04 I would discount DOS being easy. too much constraints due to the system being garbage. 06:04 heh 06:04 bhaak: DJGPP gets you past the worst of those constraints more or less automatically. 06:04 bhaak: I think there is actually a DOS version of 3.6? 06:04 like, officially 06:04 Someone got it working within weeks after release, yes. 06:05 right 06:05 Ray Chason, who else could have done that 06:06 It's tempting to test ais523's assertion that NH4 might even work under DJGPP. But eh. 06:06 If I start down that path, I'll end up cooped up in my basement doing computer stuff all the time having no actual life. 06:06 Oh, wait. 06:06 Nevermind. 06:07 <[Demo]> heh 06:08 I actually don't get the perseverance that many have about DOS things 06:08 just because it was hard to do things doesn't make them more valuable when the reason you had to do it was crap 06:10 I also don't have nostalgic feelings about VHS. it was a crappy system even back then. but at least at the time, there was actually no competitor (I don't think Beta had any foothold in Europe worth mentioning and certainly not at the end of the 80s). 06:12 VHS allowed you to trivially record TV stuff 06:12 that was about the only thing I missed in the DVD switchover 06:12 nowdays I don't watch TV, but yeah 06:12 but in potato quality. it was better than nothing. but in the case of DOS, there were several better systems around 06:15 I find it rather curious that VHS survived for over 20 years 06:16 as the dominant format 06:16 bhaak: VHS isn't great, but DVD is worse. 06:17 When a VHS tape isn't perfect, you get a few incorrect pixels. When a DVD isn't perfect, you can't watch it at all. 06:17 Also, you could take the VHS tape out, let somebody else use the player to watch another thing, and later resume _where you left off_. 06:17 <[Demo]> scratched ass library DVDs 06:18 Well, yes. 06:18 DOS, I think, is in large part about the _huge_ library of software that it had, including a lot of the best games ever made. 06:19 Games, unlike a lot of other things, don't benefit much from running on a modern, multi-tasking system. 06:20 <[Demo]> eh? 06:20 Well, single-player games don't. Multiplayer benefits from having a TCP/IP stack, granted. 06:21 <[Demo]> but my extreme realistic extra sharp hd graphics slammer turbo fps boom boom boom 06:21 the remember where we left of feature depends on the player. I think my current sound bar has that. but given that you can much faster fast forward on DVDs than on VHS, I don't think it's that much of a problem 06:21 DVDs don't really have fast forward. They have skip forward n seconds, which isn't the same. 06:22 Granted, newer players are doing better with emulating fast forward than the older ones did. 06:22 jonadab: dvd and bluray players have had the capability to remember where you left off for years 06:22 K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-02-21 04:56 EST: pushed updates: attribute abuse can no longer be recovered with attribute restoration. Also, unihorns were changed, mostly nerfed 06:22 <[Demo]> ur crappy dvd player isn't gonna eat ur dvd like vhs drives eat VHSes though 06:22 But DVD fast forward _still_ isn't up to the level of smoothness that VHS users took for granted. 06:22 well, "fast forward" doesn't specify how it's going forward. in English. in German it's actually implied that it somehow rotates ("spulen") 06:23 [Demo]: Ok, granted, you don't have to worry about the tape getting wrapped around the spindles. 06:23 [hdf-us] [nh] pavelek (Val Hum Fem Law), 1906 points, T:1748, killed by a plains centaur 06:23 I think the biggest advantage of DVD over VHS is they take up less physical space. 06:24 Which is quite significant to people who want to have a large collection. 06:24 Not such a big deal to people who only want to own their six favorites. 06:24 the biggest deal for me was the picture and sound quality 06:25 That depends more on the TV you've got, IME, than the player or medium. 06:25 <[Demo]> Now if u want a collection don't u do that all digitally? 06:25 yup and ppl would spend the money on a 720p console 06:25 Though I don't suppose VHS would support what the better TVs these days can do. 06:25 At the time when VHS was phased out, most TVs couldn't do as much quality as VHS could. 06:25 So it was immaterial. 06:25 BUt I guess that's no longer true. 06:25 [Demo] my collection is all digital :) 06:26 I'm also not sure about the error correction. DVDs are not easily scratched, if you mishandle them, that's what happens. leaving a VHS cassette in the sunshine will also be detrimental to it. also tapejam could always happen. even because of crappy cassettes or crappy player. 06:26 hell you could wear out a vhs just from playing it too many times 06:26 DVDs are as easily scratched as CDs, and more sensitive to it. 06:26 K2: Yes, but you're talking 100+ times. 06:27 jonadab: maybe your crappy NTSC TVs. PAL and especially PAL+ TVs had better quality than VHS 06:27 one word. porn 06:27 100+ times, no problem 06:27 brb :) 06:27 Speaking from public library experience, we are fortunate to get 50 circs out of a DVD before we have to resurface it. We used to get a hundred circs out of a VHS tape before running it through the cleaner, which was a less invasive procedure than resurfacing. 06:27 not every scratch results in errors 06:27 And that's if the DVD doesn't get cracked. A lot of them do. 06:27 And there's no fixing that. 06:29 (There are two very common crack patterns. The most common is, the middle part gets crumbly, around the inner rim. The second most common is a single radial crack going out from the center toward the edge.) 06:29 how the fuck are those people handling those discs? 06:29 They same way they handled the VHS tapes. Carelessly. 06:29 <[Demo]> nice 06:29 Same way people handle _everything_, honestly. 06:30 we had CDs in our car that were in freezing and melting temperatures, or sometimes tumbling around and they didn't skip a beat. 06:30 for years 06:30 Temperature doesn't do as much to optical media as to magnetic, granted. 06:30 Keeping an audiocassette on your car dashboard was... yeah. 06:30 CD is much better there. 06:31 But videos are normally used indoors. 06:31 Well, ok, yes, there are minivans with TVs for the kids. Sure. 06:31 <[Demo]> are those still a thing? 06:31 <[Demo]> dvd players built into minivans 06:31 I mean, the player is the least thing that damages a CD or a DVD. so it can almost entirely happen because of the handling 06:32 [Demo]: Yes, although they're probably going to not be much longer, due to all children having smartphones or tablets now, even the toddlers. 06:32 <[Demo]> but like are they offered in 2018 models? 06:32 vinyl and floppy discs, audio and vhs cassettes also suffer from every playing in the player 06:33 [Demo]: Oh, that I don't know. But the median age of a vehicle on the road is something like eight years. 06:33 I am so glad floppies are finally phased out. 06:33 Disk failures used to be SO common. 06:34 Although, USB flash drives get _lost_ almost as often as floppies go bad. So eh. 06:34 <[Demo]> I want ssd prices to go down 06:34 But at least there you can blame the user. 06:34 I've had USB sticks go bad as well. 06:34 It can happen, yes. 06:34 So can hard drives, or anything. 06:34 [hdf-us] [nh] pavelek (Val Hum Fem Law), 1484 points, T:681, killed by Mr. Annootok, the shopkeeper 06:34 But floppies went bad _more often_. 06:34 A lot more often. 06:35 hmm, can't confirm 06:35 [Demo]: They're going down. 06:35 Gradually. 06:35 <[Demo]> go faster go 06:35 And capacities are going up. 06:35 Somewhat less gradually. 06:35 when I digitized the rest of my Amiga discs somewhen in early 200x, only a handful of discs had gone bad 06:35 -!- Tarmunoraway has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:36 You were an Amiga user? 06:36 no cheap disk to start with and a good storage location made a lot of difference. 06:36 <[Demo]> One day I want a really good NAS setup 06:36 bhaak: That would make a difference, yes. 06:37 yeah, my first computer was an Amiga 2000 with two floppies and 3 MB of RAM 06:37 [Demo]: talk to dtype about AWS. 06:37 Oh, nice. 06:37 3MB that is a TON of ram compared to my first computer. 06:38 <[Demo]> I'm not giving them my files that's a bad idea go away amazon 06:39 jonadab: early floppy disks had far better quality than the later shit ones 06:39 (I had an ITT XTRA. Fortunately the previous owner had upgraded it to the hilt, so it had the full 640k of RAM. 192k on the motherboard, plus the expansion card with the real-time clock that also brought it up to 640k. And floppy drives were replaced, with a 640k floppy drive and a 20MB hard drive.) 06:39 FIQ: Ah. 06:39 Actually, I have a theory that for the last ten years floppy disks were still being used, they weren't being made any more and all the ones in stores were being pulled out of warehouses and had been sitting on the shelf for a while. 06:40 Because there at the end it got to the point where you'd by a new disk and odds were 50/50 anything you saved on it would be recoverable the next day. 06:40 two floppy disks (and often a warm reboot surviving RAM disk) was enough to do a lot on that machine. my first hard disk ca 2 years later with 40 MB 06:41 Hmm, hopefully those were HD floppies? 06:41 There was, even back then, a lot of software that simply couldn't be run from a 360k disk. 06:41 no. 880kb ones 06:42 DD floppes 06:42 880? Wat? 06:42 DD 3.5" were 740, weren't they? 06:42 Amiga floppy drives were somewhat special and got a bit more out of the standard DD floppies than the other systems 06:42 Huh. 06:43 At, presumably, the expense of not being able to transfer files to or from any other system ever? 06:43 yes, DD 3.5" were 720k 06:43 this was actually rather common 06:43 Oh, 720, right. 06:43 I was close. 06:43 basically most hardware manufacturers had their own standard on floppies 06:43 Amiga floppy disk are not even readable by standard floppy drives. 06:43 so the actual capacity varied 06:44 There was a piece of shareware for DOS that _claimed_ to be able to format a 360k diskette to 800k. I tried it, but it didn't work in my experience. 06:44 Maybe only worked on certain drives? Dunno. 06:44 but you could write MS-DOS compatible format with those drives, if you really wanted to for file transfers to lesser systems ;-) 06:44 Ah. 06:44 So there was a way to transfer files. 06:44 That does seem important. 06:45 bhaak: well clearly Amiga was shit, or we'd be using AmigaOS/whatever today ;) 06:45 because that is always how it works, right 06:45 Heh. 06:45 I think the main problem Amiga had was no Lotus-123. 06:45 At first, at least. 06:45 And then momentum. 06:45 the main problem Amiga had was that Commodore's management was shit 06:45 (the way I understood it, the real reason is that Amiga *was* superior to basically everything when it came out, but Commodore was utter shit when it came to proper marketing) 06:46 bhaak: Well, that too. 06:46 and management 06:46 FIQ: given that most computing devices on the planet run linux, it could have turned out worse :) 06:46 bhaak: Heh 06:46 Yes, Amiga was marketed in terms of its superiority, much of which was not perceived as relevant for business software. Stuff like better graphics. So it got written off as "for games". 06:47 And therefore never caught on, because it was too expensive for a game system, at that time. 06:47 It could've run spreadsheets just fine. But nobody ever used it for that. 06:48 sometimes it's interesting to think what could have been 06:48 IIRC the Amiga disk drives could control the rotational speed of the disks and was rotating it slower if you wrote on the outer sectors to cram in more bits 06:48 then there was also the Atari ST that competed in the same target group. 06:50 wasn't the Atari ST inferior? 06:50 this was also a copy protection scheme back in the day. let the disk rotate slower to pack more bytes on it, like 900k or more. standard drives could read that but not write it. so you couldn't copy it. 06:50 FIQ: in most terms, yes. but it was a little bit sooner on the market and cheaper and for example it had builtin MIDI 06:51 pirated copies of those games had to come on several disks due to this copy protection scheme 06:53 [hdf-us] [nh] pavelek (Val Hum Fem Law), 2341 points, T:1392, killed by a hill orc 06:56 [hdf-us] [nh] pavelek (Val Hum Fem Law), 172 points, T:176, killed by a sewer rat 07:00 bhaak: in regards to your response to my artwishing query - yeah I forgot to count 1ES, I had already been at that market 07:00 silly me 07:14 FIQhack updated (us and eu) 07:14 FIQ what all did you do yo unihorns? 07:18 *to 07:19 make them less useful 07:19 have you ever wondered, how you would "apply" them? making them less useful means you would use them less. thanks us later 07:21 https://github.com/FredrIQ/fiqhack/commit/924cb95339667c5c7ece0702ce7831b571917c93 07:27 !tell riker and tentacled by the elder priest again: https://em.slashem.me/userdata/Coolfrog/slex/dumplog/1519215736.txt :D 07:27 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 07:38 [hdf-us] [nd] Eleven (Tou Hum Fem Neu) eschewed atheism, by dropping 9 darts on an altar, on T:3610 07:45 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 1620 points, T:2216, killed by a water demon 07:50 bhakk you make me sad 07:55 for planting unpleasant images in your brain? 08:00 just for being you :P 08:01 but no, just wondering exactly what FIQ did to unihorns, if its now the same as unnethack or different 08:02 He made them not restore drained attributes. 08:02 so basically unnethackhorns 08:02 And if blessed they cure all status ailments but might become unblessed. 08:02 If uncursed, they have a 20% chance of curing any given status ailment per application. 08:03 bhaak: remind me again why it takes so agonizingly long in un to reach basic skill in anything? ;) 08:03 LarienTelrunya: To motivate you to practice more. 08:07 K2: I told you when I mentioned the update 08:07 then you asked 08:07 so I linked the commit for more details 08:07 then you ask again... 08:07 this time I don't think I will answer :) 08:08 attributes can't be restored, blessed unihorns are very powerful but will revert eventually to uncursed which is nerfed hard :D FIQ: is that an appropriate summary of your change? ;) 08:12 LarienTelrunya: it's lorimer 08:12 LarienTelrunya: it's lorimer's fault 08:12 yeah but why did you have to port that change into your variant? 08:16 FIQ I was busy, i didnt notice 08:16 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:17 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:17 LarienTelrunya: FIQ is channeling grunt at the moment 08:17 he's having a 'fuck all of you' episode 08:17 oh, does that mean FIQhack will implement beholders? :D 08:20 [hdf-us] [nh] pavelek (Val Hum Fem Law), 35570 points, T:6551, killed by a giant zombie, while frozen by a monster's gaze 08:24 LarienTelrunya: it is! 08:24 @ appropriate summary 08:24 so just carry along a few dozen holy waters at all times I guess :P 08:24 players already do this 08:28 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:33 FIQ so why the nerf? you were noticing abuse of unihorns? usually a nerf occurs because a certain function or ability makes the game too easy for the player 08:33 [hdf-us] [nh] pavelek (Val Hum Fem Law), 2648 points, T:1281, killed by a wand 08:34 or is the nerf 'just because' ? 08:38 bhaak: [bhaakscroll] Were you on the devteam at the point that the ANSIfying pull request was opened on github and an anonymous devteam member said "well we need to discuss whether we want to do this"? What came of that discussion? 08:38 jonadab: [backscroll] Ugh, I'm not a fan of unihorn use degrading its beatitude. I don't see an adequate flavor justification for how overusing a unihorn somehow turns it evil. 08:56 [hdf-us] [nd] Eleven (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 5376 points, T:5915, killed by a soldier ant 09:40 Is there such a thing as a vegetarian vampire in unnethack, or is that effectively foodless? 09:47 heh 09:47 vegitarian vampire 09:47 do they suck sap instead of blood? 09:57 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:10 <@Maurog> https://wallscover.com/images/the-vegan-vampire-wallpaper-6.jpg 10:16 !tell LarienTelrunya slex race idea: ungoliant. You can only get nutrition by drinking the life force of trees (which kills them). 10:16 Will do, aosdict! 10:21 Why would that be called ungoliant? 10:22 Is there something about Ungoliant that I've missed? 10:24 Yes. 10:24 Er, missed the word "about". 10:25 But yeah, Ungoliant is what killed the Two Trees of Valinor. 10:25 Oh, _those_ trees. Right. 10:25 I was thinking, you know, trees. 10:25 Or ents. 10:26 But yeah. 10:26 I wasn't thinking of the Two Trees, because I think of them more as lights than trees. 10:27 <@Maurog> ungoliant was the opposite of vegetarian 10:28 Indeed. 10:28 <@Maurog> she'd basically eat anyone and anything 10:28 Eat, or destroy. But yes. 10:28 <@Maurog> especially if it had light inside 10:28 jonadab: I can't think of anything else that feeds on trees 10:28 <@Maurog> preferably magic gems 10:28 <@Maurog> beavers 10:28 apart from... beetles or something 10:28 <@Maurog> beavers feed on trees 10:28 aosdict: termites? 10:29 <@Maurog> bearmites 🤔 10:29 Or fire. 10:30 Beavers don't feed on trees. 10:30 Beavers don't *eat* trees, they just chew them down. 10:31 THey use them as building materials, mostly. 10:31 <@Maurog> Beavers are pure vegetarians, subsisting solely on woody and aquatic vegetation. They will eat fresh leaves, twigs, stems, and bark. 10:31 Quite some pests these beavers. 10:31 <@🍕> perhaps beaverpeople? 10:31 <@🍕> lel 10:32 <@Maurog> the beaverkin 10:32 <@🍕> or giant thermites 10:32 Dire termites 10:32 <@Maurog> fire bearmites 10:32 <@🍕> you know like ant people in other roguelikes 10:32 <@🍕> but termites 10:32 These are all class a monsters, obviously. 10:33 <@🍕> you can play as something like an ant man in DCSS 10:33 <@Maurog> robots would eat trees, if they are steampunk robots, with like, furnaces that power them 10:33 <@🍕> cool idea 10:33 <@🍕> not only trees 10:33 <@🍕> but they can eat books 10:34 <@🍕> and scrolls 10:34 YASI: steampunk golem 10:36 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:36 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 11:12 -!- riker has joined #hardfought 11:13 . 11:13 riker: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-02-21 05:25 EST: someone actually managed to get tentacled by the elder priest: https://em.slashem.me/userdata/Coolfrog/slex/dumplog/1519206880.txt :D 11:13 riker: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-02-21 07:27 EST: and tentacled by the elder priest again: https://em.slashem.me/userdata/Coolfrog/slex/dumplog/1519215736.txt :D 11:23 -!- riker has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:24 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 11:24 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 11:30 . 11:30 LarienTelrunya: Message from aosdict at 2018-02-21 10:16 EST: slex race idea: ungoliant. You can only get nutrition by drinking the life force of trees (which kills them). 11:30 @le?ungoliant the unlight 11:30 No such monster. 11:30 aww, it isn't in the game 11:37 K2: The main thing is that I saw no reason for restore ability to be basically worthless 11:37 * LarienTelrunya currently has the restore ability spell... at 90% fail ;) 11:38 understandable 11:38 trying to remember, but i think unihorns in sporkhack are the same way 11:38 which is prob where bhaak got it from for unnethack 11:39 when I played the variants where stats cannot be restored, I always ended up with trashed dex because being satiated abuses it big time :( 11:53 <@Methuselah> how come nobody ever plays fiq on hardfought anymore 11:56 they do 11:56 !lastgame fh 11:56 K2: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/R/Rune/fiqhack/dumplog/2018-02-21%2004%3A51%3A40%2C%20Rune-Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu%2C%20died.txt 11:56 K2: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/n/nht/fiqhack/dumplog/2018-01-27%2008%3A24%3A35%2C%20nht-Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu%2C%20died.txt 11:57 eu server not so much (yet) but the main server, fair amount 12:06 https://scoreboard.xd.cm/recent.fh.html 12:24 LarienTelrunya: There are also potions of restore ability. In vanilla, everyone just blanks them. 12:24 What if they were worth saving, and carrying a couple of in your bag, for quaffing when a stat gets drained? 12:25 you know what else they are useful for 12:25 would be okay if they wouldn't weigh a ton and a half in all non-slex variants :P 12:25 stuff weigh way too much! 12:25 throwing at your pet if they are low on health, it'll act as a !oFH for them 12:29 LarienTelrunya: You're supposed to have to make decisions about what to carry. 12:29 You know, choices. Meaningful choices, with consequences. 12:29 Because it's a roguelike game. 12:30 Well, you know how it turns out. Everyone makes stashes, because I'm not the only player who's an incorrigible pack rat. And it just makes for tedious gameplay, IMHO. 12:30 There's nothing wrong with allowing the player to carry more stuff. See SLEX. It has always allowed the player to carry a lot of items, yet it's still well-balanced. 12:32 <@Methuselah> sounds like you wanna play dcss 12:33 <@Methuselah> isnt slashem well known for throwing balanced gameplay out the window in favour of adding everything you could ever think of? 12:33 regular slashem, yeah, but slex strives to be balanced, and I think I've succeeded in making it so :) 12:33 @Methuselah: LarienTelrunya has a completely different definition of "balanced" from everyone else. 12:34 <@Methuselah> seems that way 12:35 Among other things, she specifically does not want the game to be consistently winnable with perfect play by a skilled player. 12:35 Yes. Part of the slex design philosophy. 12:35 Every other variant dev considers that a balance *error* when that happens. 12:35 <@riker> @Methuselah fiq has been sick recently iirc, and I haven't seen mtf or luxi in a while 12:35 <@riker> !lastgame luxidream 12:35 @riker: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/nethack4/dumplog/2018-02-18%2020%3A51%3A25%2C%20Rince%20Win-Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha%2C%20died.txt 12:35 <@riker> !lastgame mtf 12:35 @riker: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/m/mtf/fiqhack/dumplog/2017-12-14%2005%3A34%3A54%2C%20blah-Bar-Orc-Fem-Cha%2C%20ascended.txt 12:36 <@riker> ^ 12:36 are you implying that my health directly affects the amount of play fh sees 12:36 <@riker> .... maybe 12:36 huh? riker, you should have a few beholder messages from me... did they never get through? 12:36 <@riker> I did 12:36 <@riker> I just didn't have time to reply 12:36