00:24 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:24 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 00:35 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 00:44 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:59316 00:44 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed ring of levitation", on T:59316 00:44 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of genocide", on T:59317 00:44 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 helm of telepathy", on T:59320 00:44 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed wand of death", on T:59322 00:44 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of genocide", on T:59323 00:47 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 shield of reflection", on T:59368 00:50 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:50 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 01:51 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 02:58 -!- StatueSurfer has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:14 [hdf-us] [dnh] HyperNeutrino (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 1601 points, T:2109, killed by a pony 03:53 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:55 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: beep-beep!] 04:02 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 04:06 -!- hpardis has joined #hardfought 04:06 Beholder: messages? 04:06 ais523: Message from aosdict at 2018-01-28 23:37 EST: Since people in a few channels keep asking this: does the devteam have any sort of plan, feature wishlist, or what have you for future development? Or is there zero coordination at all and you just implement stuff on the spur of the moment? 04:07 !tell aosdict we sometimes make short- or medium-term plans for specific features but I don't think there's any overarching, long-term plan (or at least if there is, nobody's told me what it is) 04:07 Will do, ais523! 04:07 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "3 blessed scrolls of enchant armor", on T:76148 04:15 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 04:15 -!- elenmirie_ is now known as elenmirie 04:16 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 05:01 -!- rumflump has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:25 -!- hpardis has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:32 -!- rumflump has joined #hardfought 05:42 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 06:52 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 08:10 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 08:17 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:22 . 08:22 aosdict: Message from ais523 at 2018-01-31 04:07 EST: we sometimes make short- or medium-term plans for specific features but I don't think there's any overarching, long-term plan (or at least if there is, nobody's told me what it is) 08:23 Yeah so this is kind of a frustrating answer to give those people then 08:23 not only do WE not know anything about their plans, they probably don't have any! 08:23 I'm not going to lie about the answer to make it less frustrating :-P 08:24 I do have /personal/ long-term plans but am not sure I'll be able to convince anyone else to follow them, and it's best not to get people's hopes up until I've made sufficient progress on them that they're likely to actually come to fruition 08:25 Grasshopper: I didn't ask for crazy rain here, I blame you 08:25 FIQ: Message from jonadab at 2018-01-30 13:17 EST: hothraxxa doesn't trust your client to give you hilights when you come back, thinks I should !tell you, "If I port xlogfile to NetHack Brass, will you port it to ZAPM?" 08:26 I just wish you guys could come together and decide where you want to take NetHack at least up through the next few releases, or more. 08:27 !tell jonadab I don't understand the connection. Doesn't seem too hard at least, but not until holiday is over 08:27 Will do, FIQ! 08:27 aosdict: put it this way: I don't even know what subset of the devteam is /active/ 08:27 aosdict: That's like trying to get a committee of eight people to agree on pizza toppings. 08:27 jonadab: Message from FIQ at 2018-01-31 08:27 EST: I don't understand the connection. Doesn't seem too hard at least, but not until holiday is over 08:28 K2: Meh, I'm only here during downtime whe nothing is happening. Apparently my big brother managed to lock in his key to his room 08:28 ais523: Well, we know rankin, bhaak, and paxed are active. 08:28 At least. 08:28 We can see that much in the commit history. 08:29 ais523: Well, that's one thing that coming together would address. :P 08:31 FIQ you're on holiday, turn off the compuer :P 08:31 *computer 08:31 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) averted death, on T:94645 08:31 for me, holidays are often an excuse to chill out on IRC rather than having to work 08:31 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) averted death, on T:94661 08:32 of course knowing myself, if I were on vacation, i'd be hard pressed to not want to access a terminal either 08:32 huh, that's a lot of lifesaves 08:32 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law), 8775052 points, T:94685, killed by an umber hulk 08:32 !lastgame 08:32 K2: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/D/DemoBot/nh343/dumplog/1517357911.nh343.txt 08:33 WoY summoned a bunch of nasties 08:33 too much for our hero to handle 08:35 but since you're here FIQ - an xlog for zapm would be neat, although I'm not sure if it'll ever be used in any future tournaments 08:35 jonadab: I have very inactive way of being active. 08:35 but since it's still active *now* it'd be kinda cool 08:36 bhaak: I was comparing you to other dev team members. 08:36 !players 08:36 K2: [hdf-us] bptato [nh4] DemoBot [nh] k2 [zapm] 08:36 K2: [hdf-eu] lynn [nd] 08:36 K2: an xlog, being a more structured way of encoding game information, is already way better than none or the original nethack logfile. it isn't restricted to tournaments to be of use 08:37 yeah 08:37 i'm sleepy 08:37 dunno why i even mentioned that 08:37 jonadab: in the land of the blind, the 1ES is queen 08:37 more importantly is this: html dump logs for nethack vanilla :P 08:38 I'm not sure that is easily done with the new approach of dumplogs that is in 3.6.1 08:38 bhaak: or the eyes of the overworld 08:38 what new approach? 08:38 So if it can't be done easily, do it the hard way :-) 08:39 get those you can be queen 08:39 or king 08:39 bhaak: Does the new approach support DYWYPISI? 08:39 wait, 3.6.1 is dumplogs? 08:39 *has 08:39 (side note - really surprised nh4 based variants dont incorporate html dump logs, esp FIQhack) 08:39 we had plans for dumplogs which were a) massively ambitious and b) broke save compatibility 08:39 K2: even ascii dumplogs were fairly hard to get working 08:39 even now, there's no particular reason why the message history section works 08:40 huh 08:40 and yes 3.6.1 has dumplogs 08:40 in theory it shouldn't, but it does sometimes? 08:40 !lastgame elenmirie 08:40 K2: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/e/elenmirie/nhdev/dumplog/1512828788.nhdev.txt 08:40 ^ example 08:41 ais523: The message history section doesn't work in NH4, not really. It only shows the last turn. 08:41 I think it shows some suffix of the messages that actually occurreD? 08:41 *occured 08:41 It shows the ones from the last game turn only. 08:42 it's based on this https://bilious.alt.org/?485 08:42 AFAIR 08:42 Because the game keeps a copy but clears it every turn. 08:42 yeah see stenno's comment from that link 08:42 ais523: massively ambitious? don't remember that. 08:43 hmm 08:43 just noticed something 08:43 !tell Tangles !lastgame doesn't pull info from EU server 08:43 Will do, K2! 08:44 Or, wait, did you mean the message history section in 3.6 dumplogs? 08:44 IIRC it's using the windowports functions and some hacking to use the same code as the UI ports and redirects the output to a file. 08:44 I haven't looked at that yet. 08:45 bhaak: The patch on bilious says it doesn't show the map. Is that still true? 08:45 I should play more 361-dev. 08:46 bhaak: binary dumpfile format 08:46 + separate viewer 08:46 actually this is a big problem with the devteam, I don't think any of our big plans are recorded anywhere 08:46 ais523: oh my, I must have purged that from memory. wait ... was that with a nethack4 log like saves? 08:46 so they tend to get dropped 08:46 bhaak: I don't think it contained the whole game history? not sure though 08:47 it was in very early stages of planning so I'm not sure that that was decided 08:47 jonadab: the version in 3.6.1 has the map. 08:48 Ah, good. 08:48 I definitely need to play more 3.6.1-dev. 08:49 ais523: so you *do* have big plans? 08:49 ais523, bhaak: you all should have a thing called a meeting and discuss things such as 'future plans' and 'goals' and 'realistic deadlines' 08:49 If I played it more, I'd have some idea what it has in it. 08:49 K2: exactly! 08:49 if anything, just to get everyone on the same page 08:49 even something as simple as "so when are we gonna release 3.6.1 and what needs to happen before we call it finished" 08:50 Deadlines as in, "any new feature work that doesn't get committed by January has to go on trunk, we will then prep the 3.6.1 branch for spring release"? 08:51 aosdict: me personally, yes 08:52 ‎<‎aosdict‎>‎ even something as simple as "so when are we gonna release 3.6.1 and what needs to happen before we call it finished" ← the first step in that is "wait, how do we do a release anyway?" 08:52 apparently it happens so rarely that the devteam keeps forgetting :-P 08:53 I will say that there are devteam members (including me) who /want/ 3.6.1 to be released fairly soon, but it's unclear whether a) we'll win the argument, or b) we're technically capable of doing so in a reasonable timeframe ;-) 08:53 as such, making any statements about our release schedule would be unwise 08:53 I don't think we're talking about publicly announcing releases ahead of time. 08:53 You always leave yourself the option of pushing it back a few weeks if you run into an unexpected problem. 08:54 Oh, man, we accidentally introduced a security-relevant segfault... gotta fix that... 08:54 clearly one thing that gets done before 3.6.1 is adding documentation on how to do a release :) 08:54 yes, we'll have to make sure we have some of that 08:55 we have an internal repo which is meant to be full of instructions like that, we should probably use it more 08:55 Indeed. 08:55 K2: that's the soldier that talks there who knows what a proper organization is. "realistic deadlines". pff, who has ever heard of that in a software project 08:55 Honestly, at this point, 3.6.1-dev is better than 3.6.0 to the point where a release is warranted even without any further fixes. 08:56 (ANd releasing 3.6.1 doesn't preclude doing a later 3.6.2.) 08:56 right, although we probably need enough testing to avoid any really critical bugs 08:56 I wonder how the 3.6.0 release happened 08:56 and I would strongly support any devteam plans being made public, in the form of doc/plans.txt or something. A few people, including me, would be happy to help that along by writing patches, if we only knew what was actually wanted. 08:56 that issue we had recently with items not stacking, for example 08:56 bhaak: no idea, I wasn't there and neither were you 08:56 yeah 08:56 aosdict: there are very few devteam members who would support that 08:57 I would, paxed probably would, bhaak might, but that's about it; perhaps lorimer? 08:57 but the old guard are strongly against that sort of thing 08:57 aosdict: Public plans that allow people to contribute wouldn't have to include dates. 08:57 And yes, a "patches wanted" list would be neat. 08:57 but the general rule of software development applies. the harder it is to do something, do it more often until it hurts so much you make it easier. I think, that is to an extent happening right now. 08:57 if someone made a 3.6 translation of the engrave-as-an-occupation patch I made for 3.4.3, I'd probably accept that 08:57 jonadab: I assume you meant to tag ais523 with that? 08:57 (depending on code quality, of course) 08:58 aosdict: I was replying to you? 08:58 assuming it isn't in 3.6 already; I find it hard to keep track of the changes sometimes 08:58 well, either way, I agree. "Here's a list of things we want to do but none of us have time for, patches will be considered." 08:59 bhaak :) 08:59 "finish my randomized Sokoban generator", for example 08:59 I keep putting that off because I've forgotten how much of it works and gluing the parts of the level together is annoying 08:59 so I work on it on spurts 08:59 jonadab: when I looked at the new approach to dumplogs in 3.6.1, I thought it would make HTML dumplogs and DYWYPISI harder to do. possible even so hard to make it unfeasible but if done, it would have been done in an architectural sound way 08:59 also I still don't have a good idea for an algorithm to create NetHack-mechanics goal chambers 09:00 how much is dywypisi in demand as a feature, incidentally? 09:00 is it something people actually find useful or do they just want it for completeness? 09:02 ais523: Dunno. Personally I think it's helpful, but not as nice as html dumplogs. 09:02 But that's one person. 09:02 ais523: I find it quite neat. it encodes more of the game end state. 09:03 ais523: how often have you looked at a dumplog and wondered if the player didn't know that this item was something that could have prevented their death but it was not identified or that they simply forgot to use it? 09:04 well, the squeaky wheel gets the grease as they say 09:04 Yes, that's one of the things I like about it. "That could've saved the player's life -- but did they KNOW that?" 09:04 if you all (meaning ais523, bhaak, lorimer) want to see some forward progress on a release this year, make it happen 09:05 bhaak: I actually don't think I've ever done that, but it makes sense 09:05 poke the bear :) 09:05 K2: sometimes you have to expend your effort on preventing the devteam doing ridiculous things instead :-) 09:05 hahahah 09:05 how's the git hash stuff getting on, from the public point of view? 09:05 I'm worried that it's massively overengineered and still doesn't work without an amount of unintuitive configuration 09:06 I'm wondering if the full insanity has become public yet or if we still have time to tone it down a bit 09:07 insanity? can you cite an example? 09:07 i must be missing something 09:08 K2: if it's not public I can't 09:08 understood 09:08 if it is you may be able to find it in the repo 09:08 Last thing relevant to that that I'm seeing is commit d2245aab29599 version output appearance bits 09:10 I suppose I should do a build and see how it does. 09:10 Hmm, let me see if I already have a script for building 3.6.1-dev. 09:10 Surely I must? 09:11 please do, I'm really curious as to whether it'll actually get the right git hash 09:11 make all; make install doesn't work for you? 09:11 unfortunately, the --version variant that copies the version output to the clipboard isn't implemented on Linux yet 09:11 aosdict: you need to build the makefile first 09:11 K2: I guess we can say so much that it is a proposed replacement of the old "SCCS: id" feature but for the new git workflow. 09:11 Hmm, seems I _don't_ have an automated build script for 361-dev yet, let me set one up. 09:12 aosdict: This is NetHack. 09:12 (Also, I don't want to clutter my repo with build output.) 09:22 ais523: if the in game #version commands works, that is a start. I'm building now. 09:23 Oh, I got a GUI build. Qt I think. Didn't intend that, but ok. 09:24 The "pick your race/role/etc." box says only "NetHack 3.6.1-0", but there isn't really _room_ for a git hash there. 09:25 #version says Unix NetHack Beta Version 3.6.1-0 last build Sat Oct 21 09:37:47 2017. 09:25 Also lists options compiled in, and the windowing system as, yes, Qt. 09:25 Oh, and there's a hyphen or dash between the version number and the "last build" stuff. 09:27 I'm going to see if I can fix up my hints file to build the tty version instead of Qt. 09:31 Hmm. My WINSRC, WINOBJ, and WINLIB are set to $(WINTTYSRC), $(WINTTYOBJ), $(WINTTYLIB) respectively. 09:32 Oh, wait. 09:32 I see. 09:32 I'm not getting the one I just built. 09:32 Duh. Oct 21. 09:32 One moment. 09:32 Ah. 09:33 I had a /usr/local build that was coming earlier in the PATH. 09:34 Ok, my hints file isn't quite right because I have to be root to run my new build, but I can worry about that later. 09:34 There we go: Unix NetHack Beta Version 3.6.1-0 - last build Wed Jan 31 09:22:27 2018. 09:34 Also, yes, this is the tty build now. 09:34 Good. 09:34 But yeah, I don't see a git hash. 09:36 ANd the .git directory _is_ present in the source tree I'm building from, git log works there, shows commit baba2acb8d from the 28th. 09:48 doh i missed it 09:49 my 15 yr anniversary being in the army was yesterday 09:49 5 more years i can retire from the military hah 09:49 (probably wont) 09:51 I don't even remember the year of my discharge (military works differently here. you have to do like 300 days, 100 in the first year, then every year 20 days). 09:53 right, i know it varies from country to country in the EU. typically its mandatory 2 yrs of service when you turn 18 09:53 not anymore. most dropped the mandatory part in the last years 09:54 i did not know that 09:54 maybe its Israel that's still mandatory service obligation (both genders) 09:55 AFAIK that's correct 09:56 healthcare coverage as a serving military member is so good, i prob wont retire until I reach maximum age (60) 09:57 my kid wont graduate high school until i'm 58 so might as well 09:58 bhaak: what did you do as a job while serving? 10:02 K2: in 1996, I belonged to the first generation of Swiss soldiers that would no longer be trained to fight in a WW3 that apparently was fought with the same stuff as WW2 :-) 10:02 ah :) 10:03 K2: there was some modernization, including new roles and one of that was what they called a "security soldier". 10:04 K2: so I got some basic security training, melee combat, and stuff like that. 10:04 K2: besides the basic infantry training, of course. 10:04 nice 10:05 i enlisted as infantry, still am, but my current role is an instructor 10:05 infantry in the US military generally performs several different roles 10:05 security being one 10:06 at the yearly refresh days, I mostly got into the offices. seems like I couldn't hide my competence :-) 10:07 although in 2 different years, I got to the support troops for securing embassies. 10:07 that was a rather easy job. being outside of embassies in case something happens to notify the real security :-) 10:08 the closest thing to real active duty I got 10:09 you should have guarded the pope 10:09 heh 10:09 right now i'm eligible for promotion, and if I do, I'll transition from infantry to IT 10:10 The queen bee is caught in a spider web. 10:10 took a course to switch my MOS (military occupational speciality) a lil over a year ago 10:10 i don't think this will end well for her majesty 10:10 i'm too old to be kicking in doors and going on pointless patrols anymore 10:10 hothraxxa hahah 10:12 hothraxxa: well, I couldn't. I'm male and catholic (non practising though) but I'm 2 cm too short :-) 10:13 not that I would have wanted to. it's a special breed ;-) 10:13 heh 10:13 you have to be an altar boy first i reckon 10:13 no. but you have to be unmarried at first 10:14 well i was usingh "altar boy" metaphorically 10:15 we have similar requirements for our 'Old Guard' 10:15 growing up, I knew several guys that were alter boys even though they didn't actually believe in that stuff. found that always a bit strange 10:15 have to be single, be a certain height/age etc 10:16 family obligation 10:16 bhaak ^^ 10:16 i went through confirmation and had to do the altar boy thing for 2 yrs 10:16 didnt believe then, still dont 10:16 but had to because dad said I had to 10:17 i was an altar boy dropout 10:17 we're all going to hell 10:17 <@Maurog> what does an altarboy actually DO 10:18 although I do NOT miss taking the occassional sip from the communal wine when the pastor wasnt looking 10:18 @Maurog assist with communion is the big one 10:18 light the candles 10:18 prep the altar, etc etc 10:18 i actually didn't last long enough to know what altar boys do outside of the obvious 10:18 <@Maurog> like, bring the waffles? 10:18 yeah 10:19 assist the priest/pastor with whatever needs doing during service 10:19 and of course wear the awesome white robe getup 10:19 i was raised lutheran, so we had pastors, not priests :P 10:20 oooh YANI 10:20 priests should have latar boys in nethack 10:20 altar 10:20 Things that are here: a very rotted valkyrie corpse named k2 10:20 esp the high priest in the sanctum 10:21 rotted?? 10:21 no thats not right 10:21 very rotted 10:21 put me in an icebox! 10:21 don't have one 10:21 :/ 10:21 wand of turn undead? 10:22 nope 10:22 do you really wanna live that way? 10:22 with a rotten body 10:22 i'm giving it a respectful burial 10:22 until they can rebuild me better, faster, stronger... yeah 10:22 nethack is a fantasy setting, not science fiction 10:23 oh, and appropriately the tombstone read: "I don't always die when I play GruntHack, but... oh who are we kidding. I always friggin' die when I play GruntHack". 10:23 and if I look at the progress in the nethack universe from 1987 onwards, I wouldn't bet that they ever invent cyborgs 10:23 zapm might 10:24 hothraxxa \o/ 10:24 but there don't exist any cross-game portals 10:24 bhaak: glad you got the reference 10:24 a dead fire giant dropped a boulder right next to your grave. it was the right thing to do 10:25 did many attend my funeral? 10:25 were nice things said? 10:25 just me 10:25 what did the floral arrangement look like? 10:25 i cursed grunthack if that's what you mean 10:25 :) 10:25 it's grunthack so no pets attended 10:25 of course 10:26 so many dead pets... 10:26 oh you know what woudl be cool 10:26 so far i've seen few zombies this game. unusual 10:26 garceyard room, and the dead crawl out of the graves to attack 10:26 *graveyard 10:26 holy spelling errors batman 10:26 sounds like the grunthack thing to do 10:27 btw k2, is gold special in gh? i found a gold dagger 10:27 'You see a rotted hand reach up through the ground below. It grabs onto your leg!' 10:27 yikes 10:27 hothraxxa: not that I've ever found. its just another possible material type 10:28 bah 10:28 it wont rot/burn/rust I suppose is its only redeeming value 10:28 gold items dont sell for any extra 10:29 what monsters, if any, would be adversely affected by gold? 10:29 yeah i have no fear of rust monsters atm, thanks to a copper hat and a gold runed dagger 10:29 maybe gold items would cause all dragons to aggro on you (dragons love gold) 10:29 could have some special interaction with croesus is all i can think of 10:29 ah of course, dragons too 10:29 yeah croesus 10:30 and lepruchans 10:30 bingo 10:30 yup them too 10:30 lepruchans should covet all your gold gear 10:30 ‎<‎jonadab‎>‎ But yeah, I don't see a git hash. ← AFAICT you're meant to manually set up git hooks 10:30 steal them like a nymph would 10:31 any plans to add stuff like that to gh? 10:32 perhaps? but not anytime soon 10:33 my wizard has pathetic offense :( 10:33 ais523: I thought that would be done on our private git server? 10:33 i think the focus will be (and should be) what tournament we're going to run this fall 10:33 oh wait my hat is mithril 10:33 mmm that reminds me 10:33 although I don't know why that couldn't be included in the Makefiles. 10:34 bhaak: but that doesn't make sense because we can't commit the git hash of the current revision into the repo itself 10:34 mithril - imo it should affect spell casting success rate as it's metal, but it shouldn't affect it as much because, you know, it's mithril 10:34 you don't want to have one hash in the release tar ball and the same hash being shown even though somebody modified the sources 10:35 the correct solution IMO is to get the build system to try to determine the git hash of the current sources, if the VCS hasn't written one out itself 10:35 ais523: well, one issue is that there should be a hash for the releases and then there might be one when compiling locally. 10:35 (and maybe even if it has) 10:35 k2: the hat seems to be like any other metal re spellcasting 10:35 ais523: for the unmodified sources it depends if you want to require a git client just for compilation 10:36 bhaak: it'd be an optional dependency, not a requirement 10:36 try to use it but have a fallback for if it isn't there 10:36 i.e. if it's all i'm wearing then no effect on at least low level spells 10:36 *all the metal 10:36 ais523: but then the release tar balls would need to include the .git directory 10:36 ais523: at least a shallow copy of it the repositotry 10:37 bhaak: NH4 doesn't need that at all 10:37 it attempts to run git at build time 10:37 hothraxxa: right, in every variant i've ever played, mithril affects spell casting rate just like any other metal armor 10:37 and if it discovers that a) it isn't in a git repo or b) git isn't there, it just uses a fallback 10:37 what i'm saying is that it shouldnt *as much* 10:38 <@luxidream> Mithril is already too good though 10:38 but its magical 10:38 i'm not proposing putting it on par with dragonscale 10:38 but i feel a lil tweak in favor of the caster isnt a bad thing 10:39 I think many NetHack players/developers feel that there shouldn't be a strict hierarchy of "which armour is best" 10:39 in #nethack4 we've long had a proposal to allow draconifying arbitrary sorts of armour 10:39 well.. there already is ;) 10:40 <@luxidream> ais523: then why does bronze plate and splint mail exist? 10:40 so dragon plate mail would be heavy, metallic, and hurt spellcasting (but give the draconic extrinsic), whereas dragon leather would have much less AC but be lighter and not block spellcasting (and also give an extrinsic) 10:40 fun fact: splint mail in sporkhack is treated as leather. heavy as hell but no spell casting penalty and you get 6 AC points 10:41 @luxidream: this is a suggestion for a change from the current way the game works 10:41 <@luxidream> right now in vanilla, mithril coats are often even worth eschewing spellcasting for. I don’t think they should be better 10:42 I think mithril is pretty clearly the second-best body armour category in the game 10:42 right now, the hierarchy is DSM > mithril > random early-game junk 10:42 ^ that 10:42 with a few outliers like crystal plate, which is in theory competitive with mithril in a few corner cases 10:42 (and is very stylish) 10:43 <@luxidream> dyna has incentives to wear heavy armor, but I don’t like how it’s literally free AC for doing nothing 10:43 ais523: but if you're not building from a git repository, you can't get the git hash. that's why it's a problem for the standard release tar ball. to some degree. because if you do modify that code, you can't even detect that it has been modified. the overengineered solution is obviously to implement your own hashing code that hashes the source at build time. we just need to link that hash to a git hash :-) 10:43 bhaak: git is blockchain, though, so it's not just hashing the current version but the entire history 10:43 the gnome zaps a wand of striking. your crystal plate mail shatters into a thousand pieces! 10:43 ^^^ should be what happens 10:44 jonadab: K2: FIQ: ^ you can perhaps see why the git hash thing got out of hand 10:44 yeah 10:44 hothraxxa: that should at least be blocked by both MR and reflection 10:44 sure 10:44 ais523: yes but in practise that doesn't matter. if you have an unknown commit hash you can't say where or even if it branched off any known commit hash. 10:45 right, my point is that there's no way to get at the hash for a revision without a copy of the repo already 10:45 commit hash. is this some new variant drug? 10:45 the "if" bit is a bit hypothetical but "where" the branch off happened would be a useful information 10:45 I wonder if git stores tree hashes anywhere 10:46 as opposed to commit hashes 10:49 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 10:58 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:59 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 11:00 [hdf-us] [gh] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 55050 points, T:15694, killed by a leocrotta 11:21 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased +3 gray dragon scale mail", on T:39173 11:24 hothraxxa :( 11:25 yeah, i got in one attack. went from 70 hp to -5 11:26 might have gotten in more had the slow monster wand had any charges 12:34 [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Ran Orc Mal Cha) killed the Watcher in the Water, on T:50893 12:49 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:79316 12:49 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of genocide", on T:79317 12:49 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "7 blessed wax candles", on T:79319 12:49 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 uncursed scrolls of genocide", on T:79320 12:49 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 helm of telepathy", on T:79322 12:49 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 shield of reflection", on T:79324 12:49 gluttony is a terrible thing 12:51 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "3 blessed scrolls of enchant armor", on T:79420 12:51 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "3 blessed scrolls of enchant armor", on T:79472 12:56 :( 13:03 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Tou Gno Fem Neu), 33443 points, T:4182, killed by a little dog 13:20 watching demobot is kind of maddening - letting all that loot go to waste 13:20 [hdf-us] [fh] blah (kevin) (Arc Dwa Fem Law), 1384 points, T:12, quit 13:22 [00:25:44] 13:22 Grasshopper: I didn't ask for crazy rain here, I blame you 13:22 Because I'm crazy? 13:24 heh 13:27 oh6: Try watching ais523. 13:28 He leaves almost everything on the floor. 13:36 well, he's explained his approach pretty well, so I at least understand the rationale 13:37 quite possibly the bot's strategy has a similar basis 13:42 [hdf-us] [un] Delraven (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 4177 points, T:3020, killed by a wand 13:52 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 13:59 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 14:01 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:07 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 14:56 -!- aosdict has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56 -!- aosdict has joined #hardfought 15:34 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) performed the invocation, on T:92301 15:46 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:03 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 16:03 -!- Chris__ANG has joined #hardfought 16:03 -!- Chris__ANG has quit [Client Quit] 16:17 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) entered the Planes, on T:96229 16:40 [hdf-us] [nd] ellipsis (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 1890 points, T:4518, quit 16:43 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:45 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) averted death, on T:97585 16:48 [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Ran Orc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fixed +2 helm of brilliance", on T:59528 16:49 [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Ran Orc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fixed +2 gauntlets of dexterity", on T:59529 16:51 [hdf-us] [nd] Eleven (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 10023 points, T:10529, killed by a giant ant, while praying 16:52 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) averted death, on T:97784 16:53 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law), 21768384 points, T:97833, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/D/DemoBot/nh343/dumplog/1517405557.nh343.txt 16:54 nice ;) 17:02 [hdf-us] [nd] dotdotdot (Ran Gno Fem Neu), 154 points, T:82, killed by a coyote, while praying 17:05 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 17:05 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 17:32 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:37 K2: when you get a chance, sign up on my new play site, https://deviceping.com 17:37 and configure a device on cron per instructions 17:47 [hdf-us] [nd] dotdotdot (Pri Elf Mal Cha), 737 points, T:1990, killed by a giant bat, while frozen by a monster's gaze 18:36 [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Ran Orc Mal Cha) killed Yeenoghu, on T:60196 18:37 <[Demo]> !asc DemoBot 18:37 [Demo]: DemoBot has ascended 2 times in 76 games (2.63%): nh:2 (2.63%) 18:37 <[Demo]> damn only two 18:46 [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Ran Orc Mal Cha) killed Vlad the Impaler, on T:60583 18:52 [hdf-us] [nd] ellipsis (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 2943 points, T:3706, killed by a soldier ant 19:05 that's not a terrible asc rate though 19:38 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:22184 19:39 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed ring of levitation", on T:22190 19:39 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of genocide", on T:22191 19:39 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased +3 gray dragon scale mail", on T:22192 19:39 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:40 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of genocide", on T:22244 19:40 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law) wished for "7 blessed wax candles", on T:22280 19:41 <[Demo]> get em 19:43 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 20:13 K2: not computer 20:13 just my pandora 20:14 I have been using it just in downtimes you know :P 20:14 :) 20:14 hows holiday so far? 20:15 it has been nice :) 20:15 good \o/ 20:15 you gotta show off some pics 20:15 not the rain (thanks grasshopper! :p) but neverthless 20:15 been a lot of being at the beach 20:16 thats great 20:16 i kinda miss the beach 20:17 also, I generally don't bath but haven't had a choice in some cases lol, we've been using boats to move across small islands with beaches, and you have to move to them across some water :P 20:18 today not much will happen though, family going on a snorkel thingy today 20:19 something I can't do due to disabilities 20:19 :/ 20:19 just as well, scuba diving is a lot more fun 20:19 naw it is all ok 20:20 i did a dive once with a couple, the man was paralyzed from the waist down 20:20 but once he was in the water, it was like he was free 20:20 heh :) 20:20 <[Demo]> oh wow 20:20 basically I can't be underwater due to disabilities 20:20 <[Demo]> mermaid magoo 20:20 this is probably also why I don't like to bathe :p 20:20 heh 20:20 but the water has been rather warm 20:20 nothing like at home 20:20 <[Demo]> what kind of disability doesnt let you get wet? 20:21 * K2 slaps Mekkis around a bit with a large trout 20:21 oops 20:22 [Demo]: I was born with a syndrome that gives me hearing, vision impairment, a complete lack of smell and limited tasting and limited breathing ability (especially when young) 20:22 * K2 smacks [Demo] upside the head 20:22 and some other things 20:22 but what is relevant here is breathing issues 20:22 yeah i can see where water might be an issue 20:23 -!- StatueSurfer has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:23 so I had a trachea implemented as a kid, and it must not get water inside (more than a very limited amount, rain/etc is ok) 20:24 [Demo] i wouldnt have asked that in a public channel, but it seems FIQ is ok with answering 20:25 FIQ: when you say you don't bathe is that like... in general, or do you mean not go swimming? 20:25 <[Demo]> i know a person who knows a person who played nethack blind like 20+ years ago before assistive technologies were very good 20:26 aosdict: I don't avoid it like the plague, I just don't like doing it 20:27 K2: gonna get you to guinea pig my new project 20:27 i.e. on a beach I generally just sit and enjoy the warmth rathe than going for a swim 20:30 dtype I signed up 20:30 but i havent identified anything to be pinged yet 20:30 a hard drive or raid array is best first bet 20:30 that will be what I work on first for error detection 20:31 see smartctl or /proc/mdstat lines 20:31 <[Demo]> im really sad 20:31 <[Demo]> im running a raid 0 solution with 3 like 7 year old drives with a shit ton of hours on them 20:31 ok 20:31 https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/aku4Hj3Y/Screen%20Shot%202018-01-31%20at%205.31.31%20PM.png 20:31 K2 ^^ 20:32 neat 20:32 K2: you signed up to irccloud? 20:32 [Demo]: cat their mdstat and smartctl to deviceping.com 20:32 bad move to pay for an irc solution 20:32 i have an account yes 20:32 especially you 20:32 who already have a fine server 20:32 but not for pay 20:33 its a failsafe in case shit hits the fan 20:33 <[Demo]> i really dont know what im gonna do 20:33 ok 20:33 K2: full monitoring isn't there yet, although the whole ping infrastructure works. by tonight I'll be highlighting things that are currently errant on their ping status 20:33 how many have signed up already? 20:34 hrm brb kid needs me 20:34 K2: heh, just a couple of folks. is only a project. you're like the 3rd person I've asked to try it 20:34 and by "try" i mean sign up and see basically a bunch of nothing 20:34 wait this isn't irccloud? 20:34 but some dtype thing? 20:35 i think we're having 2 conversations, but yeah, K2's recent "sign up" was deviceping.com 20:35 aosdict: un isn't actively developed any more than runt is 20:35 *grunt 20:35 and that site is currently a pre-pre-alpha concept of mine 20:36 <[Demo]> mdstat shows software level raid shit? 20:36 yeah 20:36 which you can monitor on your own 20:37 but the idea is you can also just cat it and post to a URL on cron and this site will monitor for failures and email you if any concerns 20:37 cause why not 20:37 K2: I never ported html dumps from un, fh dumplogs are simply just the nh4 ones 20:37 <[Demo]> well i dont have any software levl raid set up anywhere 😦 20:37 I have considered modifying them sometimes, maybe add html ones 20:37 [Demo]: eventually i should be able to monitor more things. kind of working on the infrastructure pieces now 20:38 but smartctl and mdstat are two things I know I can start with that are useful 20:38 <[Demo]> im not about to try to interact with any of my super proprietary raid cards 20:38 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39 [Demo]: 50/50 chance it is some MegaRaidCLI util 20:40 <[Demo]> uh i think one of them is 20:40 but (1) are you monitoring for raid failures? 20:41 <[Demo]> raid failure is catastrophic meltdown 20:41 and (2) how can I make that easier? (is my current site concept) 20:41 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 20:41 ah, well yeah on a stripe 20:41 <[Demo]> its so bad 20:41 <[Demo]> i need to fix it but thats gonna be a pretty big project 20:41 <[Demo]> and possibly end badly 20:43 FIQ: you should 20:43 right now unnethack is the only variant to have html dumps 20:44 !tell ais523 the message log is purely clientside on the engine, this is why they work, there was previously a bug that broke the that I fixed a while back (also in nh4 and 4k) 20:44 Will do, FIQ! 20:45 <[Demo]> man, dtype is inspiring me to try to fix my problems instead of waiting for hell to come burning down on me. 20:46 -!- Menche has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:51 dtype: you should see data from hdf main in about 9 min 20:52 well I won’t see it unless I go poking around dynamodb 20:52 you’ll see it 20:52 what i mean is, its set for every 15 min 20:53 does it matter what I make DEVICEID ? 20:53 within a couple of weeks I’ll have basic notification of simple errors working. 20:53 for now you can get a view on the site. 20:53 and does YOURURL need to be wrapped in ' ' or just as-is? 20:53 mostly pretty eww but you can see where it is going 20:54 yeah for curl wrap it 20:54 bash will interpret the & otherwise 20:54 does it matter what I make DEVICEID ? 20:54 nope 20:54 k 20:54 that’s for your reference. 20:55 I’ll have better management of these eventually here. 20:55 k 20:55 but the goal here is dead simple from device. 20:56 basically get every device under your sun to post up. I’ll get a nice dashboard of status and notify on errors. 20:57 heh 20:57 im about 25% functional 20:57 so i didnt even know about smartmontools until justa few min ago 20:57 you may need to throw some examples my way 20:58 yeah useful. can also have it email you 20:58 but idea of deviceping is I handle email part. 20:58 also I can tell you if box disappears. local tools can’t. 20:59 yeah this is good 20:59 doesnt hurt to have an outside monitoring source 20:59 <[Demo]> there are benefits to not disclosing that information 20:59 of course 21:00 this is also all amazon services. won’t go down. 21:00 but its not like i'm sharing intimate details 21:00 <[Demo]> right 21:00 yeah and zero control back in 21:00 !who 21:00 FIQ: [hdf-us] arnibald [gh] DemoBot [nh] k2 [un] 21:00 FIQ: [hdf-eu] No current players 21:00 !whereis demobot 21:00 FIQ: [hdf-us] DemoBot [nh]: (Val Dwa Fem Law) T:31376 Gehennom level: 38 21:00 !streak [Demo] 21:00 FIQ: No streaks for [Demo]. 21:00 <[Demo]> just seems like the optimal setup youd have your own service running on some sort of external guy watching it that you controlled 21:01 !streak demobot 21:01 FIQ: demobot Max[nh]: 1 (2018-01-27 - 2018-01-28). 21:01 <[Demo]> oh wow demobot 21:01 dtype 21:01 001 (raw) 21:01 (payload) 21:01 last seen: 01/Feb/2018:02:00:01 +0000 (47 seconds ago) 21:01 apparent ping interval: Unknown (hasn't repeated consistently yet) 21:01 lifetime_count: 1 21:01 thats it 21:01 whee 21:01 oh NICE 21:01 it will find ping interval in 4 pings. 21:01 mouse hover for the win 21:02 so [Demo] 21:02 why not disable farmin 21:02 g 21:02 that’s it for now. working on some of the “is this thing broken” logic 21:02 <[Demo]> i actually want to do the opposite fiq 😛 21:02 <[Demo]> disable stopping farming 21:02 why? 21:02 <[Demo]> for science 21:02 <[Demo]> farmbot 21:02 k 21:03 btw 21:03 the reason you can't restart the bot 21:03 it keeps its state in memory 21:03 <[Demo]> yes 21:03 k2 keep it going if you want. infrstructure is there and functionality will come. 21:03 if you restart it, it forgets everything 21:03 <[Demo]> it is an amazing bot 21:03 and it doesn't take notes 21:03 <[Demo]> its so much fun 21:03 <[Demo]> when it doesnt work right 21:03 so that is why it wants to quit 21:03 <[Demo]> like if it worked right all the time that would be no fun 21:04 you and I have different views on fun 21:04 it is fun to fix it 21:04 <[Demo]> its like slex 21:05 <[Demo]> if youve got a version that is less retarded id be down to run it 21:05 I do not 21:05 clojure is madness 21:05 <[Demo]> exactly 21:05 I tried to implement shopping a while back 21:06 <[Demo]> oh god 21:06 https://www.hardfought.org/phpBB3/gallery/image/2480/source 21:06 it kind of worked but sometimes broke 21:06 dtype ^^ 21:06 clojure is crazy 21:06 is all I can say 21:06 <[Demo]> i want nothing to do with clojure 21:06 yeah i had a serious look at the source for the bot 21:06 <[Demo]> its a damn shame this bot is so cool 21:06 way above me 21:06 clojure is functional 21:06 <[Demo]> functionally retarded 21:06 lisp-alike 21:07 i mean i could undersatnd what each section was, but i couldnt see exactly how it all worked together 21:07 I would rather not mess with it 21:07 k2 sweet. I’ll get to parsing that output and emailing you if I see an error soon. 21:07 I think what duke- really needed was something like Prolog 21:07 :) 21:07 but clojure was a closer match than, say, java 21:07 dtype: let me know what else you'd like to see 21:08 [hdf-us] [gh] arnibald (Pri Hum Mal Neu) had mace bestowed upon him by Thoth, on T:1925 21:08 right now is just all work todo on my end. 21:08 ok 21:08 how is my design-fu? JavaScript and all... heh 21:09 [Demo]: Adeon started work on a nethack bot in haskell a while back 21:09 i like it. i notice small nagging bit when you select a text box but its minor 21:09 but didn't come far 21:10 <[Demo]> i cant stand functional languages but it makes sense to write a nethack bot in one 21:10 k2 I’ll get a front end designer soon 21:10 already running into stuff I can’t do 21:10 focus on functionality first... you prob already knew that though 21:10 yeah 21:11 can clean it up and have it look pretty later ;) 21:11 but need enough design to make certain functional things go 21:11 <[Demo]> i love neat little projects like that 21:11 like without little popups that page would be unmanageable 21:12 but yeah dtype this is really cool 21:12 talking about this makes me want to redo the theme for hdf website again 21:12 bring it fully into 21st century 21:13 k2 happy for feedback although at this point I have big basic function todo list. 21:13 no worries 21:13 i will say, for a site like this, clean is Good™ 21:13 and its clean 21:14 yeah I like clean 21:15 i am considering going so far as to hiring a web content creation firm to design me a bad ass theme for hardfought 21:15 depends on what kind of disposable income i'll have this year 21:16 but what i would like, is for anyone to be able to access hterm from their mobile device and play without any issues 21:16 (scaling issues) 21:16 the work that FIQ did with watchmode is a big step in that direction actually 21:16 hterm loves it 21:21 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:39 [hdf-us] [gh] arnibald (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 2730 points, T:4324, killed by a gnomish lord's bolt of cold 21:51 <[Demo]> !whereis demobot 21:51 [Demo]: [hdf-us] DemoBot [nh]: (Val Dwa Fem Law) T:37333 Gehennom level: 45 21:51 <[Demo]> I'm gonna sleep sorry for being intrusive and ignorant today and good luck demobot with ur streak 22:01 [hdf-us] [nh] DemoBot (Val Dwa Fem Law), 917216 points, T:38521, killed by brainlessness 22:01 <@riker> demobot is actually pretty good 22:01 [hdf-us] [gh] arnibald (Pri Hum Fem Neu), 2190 points, T:1782, killed by a snake 22:04 K2: site is prettier colors now 22:04 all blue and purple on devices page 22:04 :) 22:05 about to make the device box color correspond with whether it is current on pings or not 22:05 <@riker> k2; who made the header img on desktop? 22:05 <@riker> *desktop hdf.org site 22:05 long long time ago, like 2005-2006 22:05 i think it was a long time regular named 'picklejuice' 22:06 yeah picklejuice 22:06 the ppl in the banner are some of the original hdf regulars 22:06 eatmorelead, nad, puppy, sX, myself 22:15 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 22:19 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 22:42 https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/YUxhv1bF/Screen%20Shot%202018-01-31%20at%207.41.41%20PM.png 22:42 K2: ^^ 22:42 i'm being forced into ui design 22:45 <@riker> tfw you fumbling a key 22:45 <@riker> and now I have a tame naiad 22:45 <@riker> (they were invisible and I didn't know they were there) 22:45 <@riker> but hey! they have a shield of reflection lol 22:49 -!- Crawldragon has joined #hardfought 22:51 nice dtype 22:51 i mean, is 2005 "look I learned css" level of sophistication, but still 22:55 So I was looking at domain names recently and I noticed that the .game and .games domains are available now, with .game being priced somewhere in $700 a year but with .games being relatively cheap at about $20 a year 22:55 So just for funsies I checked to see if roguelike.games is open and it looks like it is, but only if you pay $1,333 a year or some ridiculous figure 22:56 and apparently the reason for this is that the domain registrar has arbitrarily decided that some domains are worth significantly more than others, and that "roguelike.games" is a rich man's domain name 22:56 gah 22:56 no just .games 22:56 So then I checked hack.games (good name for a NetHack server) and that's like $3,000 per year 22:56 .games will be expensive 22:57 I was tempted to check roleplaying.games just for laughs but I was afraid that my head would explode 22:57 heh 22:57 K2: Actually I checked a more general domain name by typing in my surname and that would have been charged the standard $20 22:57 <@riker> it's 5k crawldragon 22:57 Jesus 22:58 <@riker> do we have anybody from the cook islands here? 22:58 <@riker> we might be able to get a netha.ck name or smt 22:58 rofl 22:59 <@riker> nothing supports that tld tho :/ 22:59 dtype: don't feel bad about 2005 ui design, nethack.org is at LEAST 5-10 years behind that 22:59 <@riker> it's on par with the wiki wiki web 22:59 nethack.org has a great design though 22:59 its so those ppl still using netscape 4.0 can still access it 22:59 I like how you enter the site proper by "click[ing] friend and enter" 23:00 it's very nineties 23:00 but then again I still like Flash websites 23:02 Crawldragon: I think you were joking but if not: the site proper should be the page you first land on, not hidden behind a link that looks like everything else 23:02 aosdict: i could bring alt.org up to 2005 standards 23:03 aosdict: Ehhh, depends? The landing page being a brief introduction to what the site is actually about isn't a _terrible_ idea, or at least would be if it weren't likely that new users would have learned what NetHack is from Wikipedia like I did 23:13 -!- Crawldragon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15 -!- rumflump has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:20 -!- rumflump has joined #hardfought 23:31 fuck 23:31 no chromatic dragon scale drops 23:37 [hdf-us] [un] ElanDeMain (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed the ghost of k2, the former Lookout, on T:2898 23:47 -!- rumflump has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]