00:20 -!- Crawldragon has joined #hardfought 00:37 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:37 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 00:42 -!- deadnoob has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 00:48 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:52 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 00:59 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 01:12 what do you mean? 01:12 err nvm 01:12 https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikedev/comments/7t2p9n/feedback_friday_33_fiqhack/?utm_content=title&utm_medium=hot&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=roguelikedev 01:45 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 02:08 @luxidream was it fun playing convict 02:12 -!- Crawldragon has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [SeaMonkey 2.49.1/20171016030418]] 02:20 apparently vanilla allows you to (sometimes) eat zombie corpses 02:20 silly 02:21 well you're kinda rolling the dice whenever you do that 02:21 yeah but 02:22 it's a zombie corpse 02:22 why would that ever be safe 02:22 why do all zombies have to be rotted 02:22 FIQ: you should probably !tell that to ais :P 02:22 surely there's some people who were zombified while alive 02:22 !tell ais523 should it really be safe to eat zombie? 02:22 Will do, FIQ! 02:22 in any case you can tin it to eat 02:22 StatueSurfer: and those are fine to eat... for what reason exactly? 02:23 i mean are they prone to rot just from being zombies? 02:23 seeing as vanilla does not have zombification 02:24 as a disease 02:42 -!- StatueSurfer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:44 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 02:44 hi 02:44 Hello StatueSurfer, Welcome to #hardfought 02:53 -!- Crawldragon has joined #hardfought 03:09 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 03:36 -!- StatueSurfer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:28 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:34 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 05:34 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 06:09 <@Catiua> Can I just say I love the idea of object properties? 06:09 <@Catiua> It really tosses ascension kits on its head 06:48 -!- deadnoob has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:48 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 06:54 FIQ: I see you made it on Feedback Friday on reddit, do you get on there simply by filling out that "devs sign up here" form and getting lucky? 06:55 yes 06:55 no luck involved I think 06:55 well, aside from spam/etc 06:55 but there's only one such feedback friday per month and I guess many other devs are submitting their games too 06:55 there is one every other week 06:55 i.e. there's probably a moderator deciding which one gets picked, right? 06:55 and I submitted mine several weeks ago 06:55 like, last month 06:56 let me check when I submitted it 06:56 oh, and Nethack Fourk was #31 06:56 https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikedev/comments/7k3ogq/sharing_saturday_185/drdvit2/?context=3&st=jcvvgowp&sh=26d9f8a0 06:56 December 16th 06:57 maybe I should submit slex, but not right now since currently the version on github gives either a segfault or abort when trying to compile due to an oversight on my part :( 06:57 rip 06:58 oh, I guess those sharing saturdays would be interesting too; shame it's not saturday right now or I might write something about slex ;) 06:58 s/no luck involved/no restrictions/ 06:58 sharing saturdays are fun 06:58 to write for 06:58 I have done plenty 06:59 a bunch for FIQHack, and a few (much less) for messing around with the curses windowport 06:59 oh, so I guess I could write something like "because of a stray line in the map definition file, the game failed to compile" :D 07:00 look at what others wrote 07:00 huh, "Myself I would love an excuse to play another NetHack variant. My last try was to play with the evil variant which does truly foul things not just to gameplay but to interface as well." is one of the replies you got back then 07:01 it runs the gamut from "I made this" *screenshot of a barely started project* and nothing else 07:01 there is an evil variant? if he refers to Grunthack, it doesn't really screw with the interface very much 07:01 to "I did this, that and that, oh and here are some screenshots, and some more text about what I wrote is linked here, you can play here, there were some issues there, but I solved it with dijkstra, ..." 07:02 LarienTelrunya: that is referring to slex I think 07:03 heh, he should have toughed it out and become the first non-Amy to ascend slex, but players give up too easily these days! :P 07:03 back in the old days, when games like Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden were what everyone was playing, it used to be the norm that games were difficult! 07:04 there is still a difference between difficult and just poor game design 07:05 castlevania/ninja gaiden mistakes are pretty much always your own fault (allthough it does have some poor design as well, enemy placement + knockback probably being the major one) 07:05 yeah those goddamn bats!!! 07:05 while slex is explicitly designed to not have a 100% winrate even with optimal skill 07:06 well, oregon trail is another game explicitly designed to not have a 100% winrate; does that mean it's badly designed? :P 07:06 due to what people generally regard as poor game design 07:06 I don't know whatoregon trail is 07:06 however, one thing that comes to mind is IWBTG 07:07 it is also a game that runs on trial and error gameplay and what people generally regard as poor game design 07:07 which is the entire point of the game, and some enjoy it for that 07:07 of course one thing that sets roguelikes apart from platformers is that the latter have little (if any) randomness 07:07 doesn't mean it is bad 07:07 in IWBTG, every obstacle has fixed placement, so in theory you can learn where all the things that can kill you are, and try to avoid them 07:08 same for Super Kaizo Mario, which also involves a lot of trial and error if you try to play it "normally" 07:09 kaizo isn't nearly as well-made as IWBTG and I don't know why it is as notable as it is 07:09 but in vanilla nethack, random stuff like GWTWODs and poisoned spiked pits and such can end you with no way for you to tell that the instadeath is coming 07:09 why do you think the vast majority of variants strive to remove such things? 07:09 because it is frustrating and poor game design 07:09 because it's considered bad design I guess? 07:10 heh you were faster :D 07:12 hmm. I'm wondering whether the sharing saturdays would increase the chance of a nethack fork to become more popular. But they probably do, considering FIQhack has become one of the most played variants. 07:12 I am not sure how much of this can be chalked up to writing on sharing Saturday 07:12 if at all 07:12 but probably a bit 07:13 I think fiqhack's popularity is almost purely just word of mouth 07:13 well, whatever your strategy is to make FIQhack popular, it seems to be working 07:13 consider this 07:13 I started writing Sharing Saturdays around autumm 2017 07:14 FIQHack wasn't played at all besides a bit during Junethack, and novelty games ("let's try something new one or two times") 07:14 before April 2017 07:14 yeah junethack also helps to make variants more popular :) 07:14 then jonadab made this: https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/62s0c9/new_roguelike_variant_nethack_fourk_merged_onto/?st=jcvw3yre&sh=56dc0d2f 07:15 rumflump caught the attention of it 07:15 checked out fourk and fiqhack 07:15 and then proceed to tell RLdiscord about the greatness of the variants 07:15 this increased FIQHack's popularity *significantly* 07:15 "variants" = fourk and FIQhack specifically, or just generally Nethack variants? 07:16 I have no idea why 4k didn't get similar results 07:16 I blame @mtf :P 07:16 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:16 LarienTelrunya: those specifically 07:16 ah 07:16 rumflump: tell RLdiscord about the greatness of slex! *bundlebundlebundle* ♥ 07:16 FIQ hopefully hdf had a small hand in helping with that 07:17 K2: of course having a great server with an admin who actually cares helps :) 07:17 heh 07:17 but that isn't specific to those variants 07:17 I mean, compare the play asc and hdf see respectively 07:17 yeah i dont want to thin about what you'd have to go through if ascrun was your only platform 07:18 hdf is much more popular than asc 07:18 K2: urgh 07:18 i havent ever really looked at number of games played between the 2 07:18 either for fh or any variant 07:19 K2: recently, kerio told me "yo I'll stop reviewing your changes [probably because he has lost interest in maintaining a NH server], just don't do anything evil" 07:19 so yeah 07:19 K2: fh sees play on ade too 07:19 it's pretty much just dnethack and fiqhack 07:19 on there 07:19 if it sees play at all 07:19 currently someone is playing un on ascrun 07:19 interesting 07:20 and woodfighter ascended fourk on ascrun 5 days ago 07:21 just looked 07:21 but ever since the ssh restriction was established, I've not been to the ascrun channel at all so I couldn't judge the popularity of variants based on death messages ;) 07:21 apparently I was following asc at bad times or something 07:21 the death reports doesn't reflect what I said at all (aside from dnh seeing a bunch of play) 07:21 it still gets some play, kerio's server has been around long enough he's going to have some sort of loyal playerbase. and thats good 07:21 options = a Good Thing™ 07:22 LarienTelrunya: its not difficult to setup your irc client for secure connection 07:23 K2: my IRC client is webchat, not sure if that can even use ssh 07:23 here's last week: http://sprunge.us/JhFa 07:23 er, not last week 07:23 last 100 games 07:23 for asc 07:23 oh, that proves my suspicion that Solarflare and Coolfrog are the same person, thanks 07:23 ? 07:23 ah 07:24 Coolfrog was playing slex occasionally during the last week, and I was wondering whether he's Solarflare, since they had very similar playing styles and the same fruitname 07:24 FIQ can you do same for hdf channel 07:25 LarienTelrunya: kinda surprised you dont use a dedicated program for irc 07:26 well I like not having to switch back between programs all the time, and I feel that a browser tab is more safe for work than an extra program 07:26 <@Catiua> fiq has autoexplore? woah 07:26 from work yeah i can understand that (thats why i setup webirc for hdf) 07:27 K2: was going to, livelog kept messing with things 07:27 I think I got it now 07:27 http://sprunge.us/BAIU 07:28 thats roughly same timespan for last 100 games 07:28 between hdf and asc 07:28 yes, but see the players between the servers 07:28 asc has like 8 people in total 07:28 among these games 07:28 yeah 07:29 and the same people across the last 500, etc, too 07:29 basically 07:29 we're actually on a down tick at the moment 07:29 ebb and flow 07:29 EU people who see no reason to switch 07:29 and who play a lot 07:29 remain in asc 07:29 but it doesn't really get any new players 07:29 yup the loyal playerbase 07:30 * LarienTelrunya is officially converted to hdf for next junethack thanks to the eu server :) 07:30 mhm 07:30 LarienTelrunya :) 07:30 if everyone except teamsplat were to stop playing on hdf, i'd still keep it running 07:30 K2: when I generally compare without "hard data", I do so by checking the watchlist 07:30 among the 2 07:30 hdf is almost always higher 07:30 :P 07:30 hence my claim 07:31 having an admin who doesn't say "nope I don't restore your crashed dynahack game on the quest locate level" really helps :D 07:31 makes sense 07:31 heh 07:31 LarienTelrunya: wait who did that? 07:31 FIQ: guess 07:31 ugh 07:31 is the game still in limbo? 07:31 ok headed to work see you all from there 07:31 nope, bhaak gave him a stern talk and then he restored it 07:31 oh ok good 07:32 when was this 07:32 junethack 2017 07:32 there was also that really annoying bug in dyna where killing Rodney would segfault on the plane of earth and it'll never be fixed :( 07:33 or maybe it was on the plane of water, but anyway it would always crash 07:33 https://github.com/tung/DynaHack/issues/101 07:36 <@Catiua> Quick question 07:37 <@Catiua> The eu ssh server asks me to register under the US one 07:37 <@Catiua> How do I login for the eu server? 07:39 I think you need to register on the US server first, and then use the name you registered with, on the EU server 07:41 <@Catiua> That was my thought, but the eu server doesn't like my registered username 07:42 <@Catiua> ie. it seems to think there isn't a 'Catiua' in the system 07:43 hmm, when I try to login as "Catiua" on the eu server it asks for a password 07:44 (which I obviously don't know :D, but it should work for you) 07:44 this is what bhaak did to get kerio to do his duty 07:44 also it was fiqhack, not dynahack 07:44 2017-06-11 12:40:35 bhaak that's what you get for using those new fangled nh4 derivates 07:44 2017-06-11 12:42:44 ⚡ bhaak give kerio a good stern look for not doing his admin duties 07:44 clearly kerio is scared of bhaak 07:44 if that was enough 07:44 :D 07:45 @Catiua wait 5 minutes 07:46 FIQ: I think those 5 minutes are already over and she should be able to login on the eu server now ;) 07:46 perhaps 07:46 !who 07:46 FIQ: [hdf-us] Catiua [fh] 07:46 FIQ: [hdf-eu] elenmirie [nd] 07:46 yeah 07:46 also she's playing your favorite variant ;p 07:47 haahaa gotta love the wand balance patch 07:48 all right I think my new curses window management system is ready to be used 07:48 will remove the old window handling 07:49 it was done in the fraction of the old code's size 07:49 *in a fraction 07:50 !who 07:50 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] No current players 07:50 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-eu] elenmirie [nd] 07:54 <@Catiua> okay it works 07:54 !who 07:54 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-us] No current players 07:54 LarienTelrunya: [hdf-eu] Catiua [fh] elenmirie [nd] 07:54 yay :) 07:56 all - it takes about 5 min for registrations on the us server to propagate to the eu server 07:57 <@Catiua> It begiiins 07:57 <@Catiua> https://i.imgur.com/tujKf9Z.png 07:57 :) 07:57 where are you Catiua? 07:57 as in what country 07:57 <@Catiua> France 07:57 guess there'll be much FIQhack played today, thanks to the feedback friday 07:57 nice 07:58 hmm 07:58 I should consider adding a first-time startup window mentioning improved gameplay experience at larger terminal sizes 07:59 http://home.fiq.se/sidebar.png 07:59 <@Catiua> Hold on, at larger sizes does it actually bake in 07:59 <@Catiua> woah 07:59 <@Catiua> yeah, other windows 07:59 <@Catiua> I forgot NH4 did that 08:00 it is nice 08:00 FIQ when will fh allow menucolors editing 08:00 but I have realized that not everyone knows about it 08:00 so I want to notify players more about it 08:00 K2: sometime 08:00 \o/ 08:01 want to figure out a good way to set it up 08:01 UI configuration-wise 08:01 FIQ: rcfile :D 08:01 that is not an UI configuration method 08:01 that is using a text editor 08:01 :P 08:01 in fact, rcfiles for nh4-based variants on the servers when *nagnagnag* 08:01 (user-editable ones I mean) 08:02 there might be security concerns 08:02 the configuration file syntax was designed by daniel_t 08:03 are you implying that it would be possible to h@xx0r the server via the rcfile by putting in stuff that causes a segfault and then executes whatever you put behind it as code? 08:05 yes 08:05 I am implying that exactly 08:05 <[Demo]> Isn't it all run in a chroot though? 08:05 and the nh3-based variants don't have that problem? 08:06 LarienTelrunya: 3.6.0 does 08:06 oh 08:06 NH3 might, I don't know 08:06 But I trust NH3 code more than daniel_t code 08:07 <@Catiua> lol fiq I was going to ask how you got the time down there in the corner in the sreenshot but then I realised that's just emacs 08:07 well, gotta leave now, I have a date with a pretty woman today ♥ later guys! 08:07 not emacs 08:07 <@Catiua> Oh it's just one of your sessions? 08:07 set-option -g status-right "#[fg=yellow]%H:%M:%S" 08:08 in my tmux.conf 08:08 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:08 <@Catiua> I don't play fullscreen anyway, so I don't have an issue, I just thought that was cool :-) 08:08 ah 08:08 aside from browser, I do most of my stuff in a terminal 08:10 text editing, irc, compilation/etc, file management, roguelikes 08:12 <@Catiua> What do you use for irc? irssi? 08:12 weechat 08:12 <@Catiua> Haven't heard of that one 08:13 <@Catiua> oh wow 08:13 <@Catiua> This is actually active AND pretty 08:14 weechat you mean? 08:14 it's nice 08:14 <@Catiua> yep yep 08:15 <@Catiua> I'd try it if I didn't think it'd require learning it first 08:15 <@Catiua> I use Textual, a paid mac client 08:15 ah 08:15 I never understood the point of buying clients 08:15 irc clients, that is 08:16 <@Catiua> You'd be surprised at how hard it is to find a client on mac that isn't hideous 08:16 <@Catiua> Well, gui clients 08:16 <@Catiua> I might be a bit spoiled there 08:17 <@Catiua> Which font is this? 08:17 <@Catiua> https://weechat.org/media/images/screenshots/weechat/medium/weechat_2014-06-09_zphinx.png 08:17 <@Catiua> Terminus, right? 08:17 not sure 08:17 I don't use it 08:17 also not a fan of that contrast 08:18 I much prefer a black background :P 08:18 <@Catiua> Some people like it solarized 08:18 <@Catiua> I guess 08:18 <@Catiua> I was just interested in the font 08:18 <@Catiua> I might want to use it for nethack 08:19 my setup: http://home.fiq.se/weechat.png 08:20 that ugly right border is due to me not being on my desktop at home atm 08:21 <@Catiua> Looks cramped 08:21 yeah it's not as cramped at home 08:21 but still, looks OK to me 08:21 I like it this way 08:22 <@Catiua> Is that in a window or fullscreen? 08:22 fullscreen but with a big font size 08:22 <@Catiua> ok 08:22 I am vision impaired 08:22 <@Catiua> I had flashbacks to my first netbook lol 08:22 at home I have a much bigger screen 08:22 so it's all good there 08:23 Well, I also use a pocket PC a lot :P 08:23 Which is even smaller 08:23 terminal resolution-wise 08:23 <@Catiua> I still have this netbook 08:23 <@Catiua> It's still going, I'm surprised 08:23 heh 08:23 <@Catiua> Outlived everything else 08:23 <@Catiua> It's an HP 08:23 I use a pandora on the go, been using since 2014 08:23 <@Catiua> I swapped out XP for Crunchbang 08:24 no planned obsolecence is nice 08:24 <@Catiua> It can barely playback video 08:24 Heh 08:24 <@Catiua> What is your OS? 08:28 I run archlinux 08:38 i still use mIRC :) 08:38 mainly because i paid for a license for it years and years ago 08:39 But you can't use mIRC in a screen or tmux session, can you? 08:40 no 08:40 since i use windows as my main OS, its not an issue 08:41 a friend of me gave me his mIRC license key when he stopped having any use of it 08:41 so I have a semi-legit mIRC key 08:41 (I was still running mIRC bots at the time) 08:41 i have tried irssi 08:41 K2: do you ue vanilla mIRC 08:41 or something like nbs-irc 08:41 but to use it on windows, i have to go through cygwin 08:42 vanilla 08:42 K2: But rdesktop is so much heavier than ssh, when you connect to your mIRC session remotely over the internet, doesn't it lag horribly? 08:42 vanilla mIRC is a bit... spartan 08:42 it doesn't even have autoconnect 08:42 or autojoin IIRC 08:42 jonadab: i dont remote to mIRC 08:42 FIQ it does 08:42 that is new I think 08:42 at least autoconnect 08:42 i run znc on hdf main and tell mIRC to conenct to it 08:42 K2: So you can only use it when you're physically sitting in front of one specific computer? 08:43 That seems rather suboptimal for a network communications tool. 08:43 K2: oh, so you get autojoin that way 08:43 I guess that works 08:43 jonadab: correct 08:43 Oh, znc. 08:43 but still, no autoconnect 08:43 Hmm, ok. 08:43 FIQ mIRc can autoconnect no problem 08:43 I suppose znc would solve most of my objection. 08:43 hm 08:43 how? 08:43 um... via its settings 08:43 iirc it didn't have autoconnect back when I used it 08:43 without having to fiddle with extensions like nbs-irc 08:44 How can an IRC client not have autoconnect? 08:44 its actively developed 08:44 That seems rather fundamental. 08:44 oh? 08:44 i would like to try weechat 08:44 there was a period where there wasn't a new version for years 08:44 at 6.35 08:44 i feel dirty even admitting that I use mIRc to this crowd 08:44 or something like that 08:45 its on version 7.54 or 7.56 now 08:45 K2: meh, half of this place consists of a crowd who hasn't ever used an irc client 08:45 or if they have, shuns it 08:45 I keep meaning to upgrade to weechat eventually, but eh, what I have is working for the time being. 08:45 correction latest is 7.51 08:45 jonadab THAT right there 08:45 what I have is working for the time being 08:46 So I prioritized getting bitlbee working first, so I could have a Twitter feed again. 08:46 (And then while I was at it did Discord as well.) 08:47 !who 08:47 K2: [hdf-us] groovejumper [fh] krm26 [un] 08:47 K2: [hdf-eu] Catiua [fh] elenmirie [nd] 08:47 -!- rumflump has quit [Quit: rumflump] 08:47 i gotta get back into my unnethack game before i forget what i was doing/have done 08:48 thank the gods for annotate 08:49 !tell K2 pushed a fix that updates travis, there was no code change at all 08:49 Will do, FIQ! 08:49 hey you said you wanted all update notifications 08:53 <@luxidream> that’s a lot of backscroll 08:56 ok 08:56 K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-01-26 08:49 EST: pushed a fix that updates travis, there was no code change at all 09:00 yup 09:00 nothing to update game wise 09:07 jonadab: does that mean that you are on discord now 09:07 like, really on discord, not just in passing 09:12 [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Ran Orc Mal Cha), 1813 points, T:1707, killed by a hobgoblin 09:13 K2 the ranger survivalist fought a meager hobogoblin and the hobogoblin won 09:13 fake news 09:13 +Beholder │ [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Ran Orc Mal Cha), 1813 points, T:1707, killed by a hobgoblin 09:14 you left out the part where a pony dropped my hit points pretty low before said hobgoblin showed up 09:14 you sir are alternative facts 09:14 it is technically true 09:14 so it's more a matter of "clickbait" 09:14 <@luxidream> like my MT demogorgon game 09:14 <@luxidream> “Killed by a dwarf” 09:15 hahah 09:15 "Oh, this person was killed by a dwarf? Ok fine, not too bad" 09:15