00:32 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:50 !tell ais523 pushed a commit to fiq4 that fixes starting petnames 00:50 Will do, FIQ! 00:51 K2: @mtf my issue with changing the bot name is that it affects all places 00:52 I have no other issues with it 00:52 <@mtf> is there no other way to configure it on a case by case basis you think 00:53 @mtf not beyond running several different instances with different configurations I think 00:53 I don't really see why the bot would be coded to handle multiple irc connections 00:53 seems rather useless to me apart from a corner case like this 00:54 brb 00:54 <@mtf> FIQ: I'm looking at the config, we can totally just configure another bot 00:54 <@mtf> https://github.com/reactiflux/discord-irc 00:54 <@mtf> check out the example on the main page 00:55 <@mtf> might not be a bad idea for me to look through it honestly, maybe we can customize it on a channel by channel basiss 00:56 luxidream, I like the name sammybsod 01:00 <@luxidream> thanks 01:01 <@luxidream> sucks how NH4 doesn't let you do longer names 01:05 31 isn't long enough? 01:06 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 01:06 hi nht 01:07 <@luxidream> I'm playing regular NH4 01:07 <@luxidream> not FIQhack 01:07 <@luxidream> πŸ˜› 01:07 I know 01:07 Oh, it still has a tiny name restriction? 01:07 It was instated to prevent a crash bug 01:07 but I fixed that one in fh eventually 01:07 maybe I forgot to push it to fiq4 01:12 !who 01:12 FIQ: [hdf-us] Luxidream [nh4] 01:12 FIQ: [hdf-eu] No current players 01:12 ah 01:13 @luxidream, why is your name yellow on the irc channel? 01:15 <@luxidream> I have no idea 01:15 <@luxidream> I can't be the only one who has color, right? 01:16 you aren't 01:17 mtf is green here for some reason 01:17 <@bugsniper> and let me see what color I am 01:17 I'm blue 01:17 I guess the bot just picks a random color and doesn't use your discord name color 01:19 nick coors 01:19 just like irc 01:21 *colors 01:22 @mtf are we going to change RLdiscord's name to rld? 01:23 <@mtf> well, I'm debating just having another bot vs just changing the name 01:23 <@mtf> cause we could specialize each bot for different channels 01:23 if so I might need to drop by freenode support and have the current owner of the name dropped 01:23 (last activity over a year ago) 01:24 <@mtf> I say lets go ahead and do it 01:24 <@mtf> we can always change it again later if we want 01:24 <@mtf> or add another config 01:24 ok I will see if I get the ok from freenode 01:28 -!- FIQ is now known as rld 01:29 <@mtf> FIQ: when we do, we should just duplicate the config and use the same discord token... should just use the same bot 01:29 <@mtf> then we can change the name and direct it to specifically this channel 01:30 I could also just change the name overall 01:30 I don't think anyone would complain 01:30 <@mtf> yea, maybe 01:30 (I changed name for staff reasons, needed to request a username drop) 01:30 <@mtf> alright, screw it, we can go with one for now 01:31 yes, I will await a response from frenode 01:31 then I'll go ahead 01:35 nice patch idea: your quest leader should heal you if you come to him injured or sickened and he can 01:36 the deed is done 01:36 give me a moment 01:38 -!- rld has quit [Changing host] 01:38 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 01:38 -!- mode/#hardfought [+ov rld rld] by barjavel.freenode.net 01:38 -!- mode/#hardfought [-o rld] by ChanServ 01:39 -!- rld has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 01:40 -!- RLdiscord has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 01:40 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 01:42 -!- rld has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42 -!- FIQ has joined #hardfought 01:42 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o FIQ] by ChanServ 01:42 -!- rld has joined #hardfought 01:42 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v rld] by ChanServ 01:42 there 01:42 bot is back 01:42 I think I killed the wrong process at first 01:42 hopefully I didn't break things 01:43 @mtf ping 01:43 <@mtf> lets find out 01:43 <@mtf> I can see you πŸ˜ƒ 01:46 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:48 nice 01:49 <@FIQ> 06:35:55 Unit193 β”‚ It's all yours to group 06:36:30 rld β”‚ thansk 06:36:42 Unit193 β”‚ 'Welcoem lol 01:50 <@bugsniper> funyn 01:51 <@luxidream> so a gnome lord just rose out of my soldier polypile instead of a wood golem 01:51 <@luxidream> um 01:52 <@bugsniper> looks like you found the castle 01:53 <@bugsniper> I guess grayswandir, the reflective shield, and gray dsm are your wishes 01:53 <@luxidream> I didn't wish for grayswandir 01:54 <@bugsniper> and your fruits are cereal boxes 01:54 @luxidream the reason for this is that a golem raised from the pile 01:54 and then was immediately hit by the polymorph beam 01:54 it's a nethack4 bug 01:54 <@luxidream> oh, so it's known 01:54 <@luxidream> okay 01:54 <@luxidream> funny 01:55 <@bugsniper> @luxidream cereal boxes grow on trees in your game that means 01:56 @luxidream wait where are you? 01:56 <@luxidream> I believe it 01:57 I don't understand 01:57 <@luxidream> @FIQ medusa 01:57 oh derp 01:57 was very confused with the dungeon layout 01:57 not used to see medusa unexplored on the left lol 01:57 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 01:57 that's a nice gremlin pack 01:58 unless you actually like the purple, you can disable it with draw_detected:false 01:58 <@luxidream> it's gross 01:58 <@luxidream> I'm going to go change it right now 01:58 I agree 01:59 it is pretty much the only default I changed in fiqhack 01:59 nice find 01:59 <@luxidream> that's the 5th one 01:59 5th! 02:00 lol 02:00 <@luxidream> yes, along with a floor wow 02:00 nice luck 02:01 <@luxidream> I honestly don't know if wands of wishing should generate normally 02:02 <@luxidream> guess it's part of the fun, but it can be kind of disappointing to have a win handed to you on a silver platter 02:02 <@luxidream> I'm probably in the minority for that opinion, though 02:02 you can just break the wand 02:02 :P 02:02 or not use it 02:03 <@luxidream> I only used one wish off of it. probably won't use the rest of it 02:10 <@luxidream> ia 02:18 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:42 K2: no, I didn't even know about that. patches welcome. getting commit access no problem 02:49 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:49 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 02:49 -!- elenmirie_ is now known as elenmirie 03:08 nht: setseed? 03:09 ah nope 03:10 just thought it was given the way you headed straight to that potion shop and found wonder lol 03:10 was wondering if you wanted early phasing or something in a setseed run 03:21 wonder can give intrinsic phasing? 03:22 yes 03:22 I usually read mapping and head straight to the shops with tourist 03:22 http://home.fiq.se/potion.c 03:22 -!- StatueSurfer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:24 antimagic? 03:26 <@luxidream> MR 03:35 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 03:53 FIQ: clearly, what you should do is to allow every monster to genocide dwarves and gnomes whenever they feel like it, since for you they are also a valid genocide target. Do you want your possessions identified? :) 03:53 why? 03:53 they aren't a valid genocide target at all 03:53 symmetry, of course :D 03:53 read monst 03:53 my lawful tourist with def:-3 just kicked the watch to death 03:53 this game is going well 03:54 antimagic is MR, yes 03:54 FIQ: wtf, you made them nongenocideable 03:55 correct 03:55 for obvious reasons 03:55 it feels *very* weird that you can genocide gnome lords and kings but not normal gnomes 03:55 nht: nice AC 03:56 AC:13 Xp:6(111) Dungeons:3 03:56 the negative luck from all the murder may be a bigger issue 03:57 also those are some sweet armor pieces you got there 03:57 -3 kicking, -1 opposite alignment 03:57 also carrying fumble boots and gauntlets of fumbling 03:57 gotta keep that polyfodder 03:57 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:58 should wear the gauntlets of fumbling to complete your kit 03:58 I bet they're -2 03:59 I would but the message spam annoys me 04:04 Evil Patch idea: if your quest leader dies, you are automatically booted from the quest and the magic portal is removed, even if you had already gotten access to the quest. And if you are anywhere in the quest branch, monsters keep spawning on the top level even while you're not there and will attack the quest leader. Yes, of course he can get killed while you're on the nemesis level, and then you're screwed. 04:04 this is sounding like daikatana 04:14 FIQ: when will FIQhack and other nh4 variants add the possibility for the player to push a button to autorecover segfaulted games, which is present in most of the nh3-based variants? 04:24 most? 04:25 it's only present in the 2 most unstable ones 04:25 since it gives room for abuse 04:26 nht: You make a lot of noise! 04:29 well the alternative is to force the players to bother the server administrator, and while K2 is a cool admin and will always give you a restore, the admins of other servers might decide to deny you the restore if they didn't have their latte macchiato yet :D 04:29 don't play on those servers then 04:29 not my problem if people hosting my stuff can't do their job 04:30 s/job/duty/ 05:02 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 05:02 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 05:53 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 06:46 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:15490 06:48 [hdf-us] [gh] arnibald (Pri Hum Mal Neu) had athame named Magicbane bestowed upon him by Ishtar, on T:24044 06:52 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) wished for "blessed master key of thievery", on T:15503 06:54 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased +2 helm of brilliance", on T:15504 06:55 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased +2 gauntlets of dexterity", on T:15515 07:28 !tell bhaak ok, sounds good. I can apply dgl patch tonight. 07:28 Will do, K2! 07:28 no need to !tell when I'm here :-} 07:28 bhaak: Message from K2 at 2018-01-11 07:28 EST: ok, sounds good. I can apply dgl patch tonight. 07:29 ah hi :) 07:29 FIQ will !tell me when i'm here actively talking 07:30 @mtf thanks for the bot name change, that is definitely easier on the eyes 07:31 ok so 07:31 sleep attacks 07:31 atm they seem to do a fixed sleep duration 07:31 and the dice being for the damage itself 07:31 should this be changed? 07:32 bhaak Tangles keeps his own repo of unnethack for hdf, i will push to it and share the commit link. i'm not a github wizard like some of the others here 07:32 FIQ: ugh you bestowed on me a name for the discord bot that is three characters and pink, which is what FIQ is 07:32 ok off to work see you all in a bit 07:33 aosdict: blame K2 07:33 :) 07:34 K2 is also pink, though at least it's only two characters 07:34 just don't start putting a colored <@name> at the start of your messages and it should be good 07:35 <@9mtf> all right 07:35 gah 07:36 FIQ: which sleep attacks do damage? 07:36 K2: okay 07:36 aosdict: all of them 07:37 all 1 07:37 homunculi 07:39 that's a little odd 07:39 but to be consistent, most of the damage types that aren't physical don't do damage by default. 07:40 indeed 07:43 there is a 1/30 chance of armor being corroded from a physical acid attack 07:43 that seems a bit low 07:44 for comparision, weapons have a 1/3 chance 07:44 er, 1/6 per weapon 08:06 cancelled = cancelled(magr) || !((rn2(3) >= armpro) || !rn2(50)); 08:06 This doesn't look right... 08:45 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 18645 points, T:15504, killed by an owlbear 09:05 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 3409 points, T:2439, killed by a gnome 09:08 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:10 -!- ThatBenGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:41 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 09:43 -!- ThatBenGuy has joined #hardfought 10:28 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:30 something messed up my plumbing recently, the cold water tap is no longer reliably cold. I now understand the nethack message "This tepid water is tasteless." 10:48 -!- mode/Beholder [+Zi] by Beholder 10:48 -!- card.freenode.net changed the topic on #hardfought to: Welcome to Hardfought - https://www.hardfought.org/ - public irc logs available on website Β€ Public NetHack server - ssh nethack@hardfought.org or nethack@eu.hardfought.org Β€ our channel is now linked to #nethack-hardfought on Roguelikes Discord 10:48 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Beholder] by ChanServ 10:51 <@K2> hi 10:51 Hello @K2, Welcome to #hardfought 10:52 \o/ 10:52 <@K2> !who 10:52 @K2: [hdf-us] No current players 10:52 @K2: [hdf-eu] No current players 10:53 <@Tone> oooh 10:53 <@Tone> !lastgame 10:53 @Tone: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/m/mightyquinn/sporkhack/dumplog/1515679524.sp.txt 10:54 <@Tone> Nice! 10:54 <@K2> !8ball am I going to win the next lottery drawing? 10:54 @K2: My reply is no 10:54 <@K2> fuck you 8ball 10:54 :) 10:54 ok thank you Tangles! 10:55 so anyone from discord side can pass all commands Beholder knows to this channel 10:55 <@K2> !tell K2 test message 10:55 Will do, @K2! 10:55 <@Cerebot> This command must be issued directly. 10:55 hmm 10:55 K2: Message from @K2 at 2018-01-11 10:55 EST: test message 10:55 dont need cerebot on discord side 10:57 <@Tone> @mtf Do you know why @Cerebot is responding to that command? 10:58 minor detail 10:59 <@mtf> alright, alright, I'm awake 10:59 <@mtf> @Tone cerebot is responding because he still has permissions in this channel, which I should probably remove 11:00 <@mtf> there, done 11:02 heh 11:02 @mtf thanks for tweaking the rld bot 11:02 <@mtf> hey np, thank FIQ πŸ˜› I just gave the OK 11:02 shorter name, makes it much easier to see who messages are coming from 11:02 <@mtf> good good 11:03 <@mtf> figured there would need to be a little config anyway after we grouped up 11:03 could prob take it even farther 11:03 <@riker> is there a way to check my msgs from here? 11:03 change its name to + 11:04 <@Maurog> @mtf Rythmbot probably doesn't belong here either 11:04 !tell @riker test message 11:04 Will do, K2! 11:04 <@Maurog> One bot per bridge! 11:04 <@riker> . 11:04 <@riker> testing testing 123 11:04 hmm 11:04 <@mtf> heh good point maurog 11:04 <@riker> nope k then 11:04 !tell riker test message 11:04 Will do, K2! 11:04 <@riker> testing 11:04 <@riker> hm k then 11:04 ok so that bit is just one way 11:05 <@riker> I'm outta here now, so no more tests, somebody fix that :p 11:05 <@mtf> hah 11:05 <@riker> k2: it probably sees my name as RLDiscord or smth 11:05 <@riker> unless you've changed that 11:05 will ask Tangles if it's possible to have the !tell system work both ways 11:05 <@riker> and nobody left the poor bot any messagse 11:05 <@riker> !tell rld bot 11:05 Will do, @riker! 11:05 <@riker> . 11:05 <@riker> . 11:06 <@riker> hm k then 11:06 <@riker> /away 11:06 discord user can leave a !tell for an irc user as it currently stands 11:06 <@mtf> that's pretty cool 11:06 hell yeah 11:07 !commands 11:07 K2: available commands are !help !ping !time !pom !hello !booze !beer !potion !tea !coffee !whiskey !vodka !rum !tequila !scotch !goat !lotg !d(1-1000) !(1-50)d(1-1000) !8ball !rng !role !race !variant !tell !source !lastgame !lastasc !asc !streak !rcedit !scores !sb !setmintc !whereis !players !who !commands 11:07 any of those should work for discord user 11:08 <@Tone> You can just ping a discord user, so !tell isn't too important imo. It would still be useful for an IRC user that isn't familiar with discord though 11:09 si 11:12 <@bugsniper> !commands 11:12 @bugsniper: available commands are !help !ping !time !pom !hello !booze !beer !potion !tea !coffee !whiskey !vodka !rum !tequila !scotch !goat !lotg !d(1-1000) !(1-50)d(1-1000) !8ball !rng !role !race !variant !tell !source !lastgame !lastasc !asc !streak !rcedit !scores !sb !setmintc !whereis !players !who !commands 11:12 <@bugsniper> guess it works that way too 11:13 there are quite a lot of commands for alcohol 11:13 as there should be 11:13 !booze everyone 11:13 * Beholder passes everyone a pint of grappa, decanted by Rodney at -5 degrees Celsius. 11:14 !streak 11:14 K2: K2 Max[nh]: 1 (2017-06-02 - 2017-06-03). Current[gh]: 1 (since 2017-12-18). 11:14 heh streak of 1!! 11:14 !lastasc 11:14 K2: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/nethack4/dumplog/2018-01-11%2003%3A38%3A15%2C%20GAME%26WATCH-Wiz-Orc-Fem-Cha%2C%20ascended.txt 11:14 !lastasc k2 11:14 K2: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/un531/dumplog/1515167263.un531.txt.html 11:14 love the bot 11:15 Tangles has done a great job with it 11:27 streak of 1! yay! 11:28 !streak 11:28 elenmirie: elenmirie Max[nh]: 4 (2017-06-18 - 2017-06-30). 11:28 it would be nice to have cross-variant streaks tracked but that's probably best left to if Mandevil wants to do it 11:29 hm, there might be some issues with definition of streak there.... 11:29 the same issues as nh4 variants have with them I guess 11:29 pretty much 11:29 you could just park loads of games and let them off all at once 11:31 you could only count games that started after a previous win ended, but that doesn't solve the problem of knowing you're about to die, saving, and not returning until you break the streak some other way 11:34 yep 11:34 let Mandevil figure it out :D 11:34 !tell @FIQ test 11:34 Will do, FIQ! 11:34 <@FIQ> test 11:34 nope 11:34 K2: you omitted the @ 11:34 which is why I tested that too 11:35 i tested both with and without the @ 11:36 ah 11:37 brb 11:38 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 2488 points, T:4066, killed by a pyrolisk 11:38 <@Tone> !streak greqrg 11:38 @Tone: No streaks for greqrg. 11:38 <@Tone> :( 11:42 !streak mtf 11:42 FIQ: No streaks for mtf. 11:42 !streak tone_ow 11:42 FIQ: No streaks for tone_ow. 11:44 <@Tone> I think all of my hdf games were on the devnull server actually 11:45 ah 11:45 !who 11:45 FIQ: [hdf-us] mightyquinn [sp] 11:45 FIQ: [hdf-eu] elenmirie [nd] 12:02 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:02 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 12:06 <@wheals> just say that only the first game you started after the win can count for the streak 12:06 <@wheals> this could technically mean you could have multiple streaks going on at once which is a little weird, but i think otherwise it works 12:07 yeah, it does seem like that would work 12:08 Fek has an active 12-streak atm 12:08 and Tariru is still at 40 12:09 he's been at 40 for days! what's keeping him? 12:09 -!- Crawldragon has joined #hardfought 12:10 Maybe he's busy pudding farming, or doing extinctionist, or something ;-) 12:10 !tell LarienTelrunya You should do an extinctionist game in slex where you kill 255 of every kind of monster. 12:10 Will do, jonadab! 12:11 I'm sure it wouldn't take until the heat death of the universe. 12:12 lol 12:13 Even in that Case, we would respawn in the Restaurant at the End of the Universe to watch that Show 12:16 I mean, technically it could be done in O(n) time. 12:16 It's just that the constant factor (how long it takes to extinct and kill all 255 of a species) is annoyingly high, and n (the number of species) is, well, this is slex. 12:17 Actually, hmm. 12:18 having done an extinctionist game for the devnull tribute, the thought of trying to do that in slex fills me with the most profound sense of dread... 12:18 Now that I think about it, this being slex, it's vaguely possible that there are kinds of monsters that make the game unwinnable if you kill them. 12:19 elenmirie: Yes, but you don't like slex. LT does. So the dread would not be as much for her. 12:19 true, but just the sheer size of it should be enough 12:19 Though it would still clearly be a quite substantial undertaking. 12:19 it took me a week to get rid of most things in vanilla 12:20 I forget, has she exceeded a hundred thousand kinds of monsters yet? 12:20 and I didn't bother with demons or baby monsters or uniques 12:20 <@wheals> the hope is that somewhere in slex's feature list is something that will speed it up compared to vanilla 12:20 There may well be, actually. 12:21 If nothing else, Slash'EM has higher-damage-output artifacts than vanilla, which would let you get your damage output up to the oneshot-anything point faster. 12:21 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:22 Though in an extinctionist game, if you get xorn-edible rings of increase damage, you can definitely get there eventually anyway. 12:23 <@wheals> assuming that the cursed wand of genocide works like the scroll, you could combine that with the PYEC maybe 12:24 Actually, if what you want is a ton of monsters, Slash'EM has the wand of create horde. 12:24 Makes the wand of create monster look like the Fisher Price version. 12:24 t - a cursed wand of genocide (138567:7) 12:24 I bet it also has a monster spell of create horde. 12:24 Wouldn't bet against it. 12:25 YASI: a monster spell that resets the born counter for a random monster species. 12:32 <@mtf> FIQ: wait why don't my streaks show up 12:32 <@mtf> I have a two game streak going right now 12:33 !streak MTF 12:33 FIQ: No streaks for MTF. 12:33 Tangles: ? 12:34 <@mtf> maybe lowercase? 12:34 <@mtf> !streak mtf 12:34 @mtf: No streaks for mtf. 12:35 <@mtf> very cool that it pings me back on discord, and just highlights member names that call it from discord 12:35 <@mtf> call it from IRC* 12:39 On IRC, it counts as a nickping if your nick is mentioned. 12:39 (You can also have arbitrary hilights, of course.) 12:40 (Actually, this is all totally configurable client-side, you can make it so it's only a nickping if your username is the whole word, if you want, etc.) 12:40 mtf won't stop calling me aos so I had to configure it as a hilite 12:43 jonadab: have you configured "jona" as a hilite? 12:43 <@mtf> aos: mwahaha my plan has succeeded 12:43 <@mtf> jona: I hope you have πŸ˜› 12:44 I get pinged on a mention of fiqhack 12:44 easiest way for me to get notified if someone has issues 12:44 <@mtf> "... so I have this problem in FH" 12:44 * FIQ slaps @mtf around a bit with a large FIQ-bot 12:44 <@mtf> lol fiqbot 12:45 <@mtf> that'd be a good bot name 12:45 -!- aosdict is now known as aos 12:45 I get highlighted any time anyone uses the word "crawl" 12:46 aos: I have not. 12:46 <@mtf> jona: you totally should πŸ˜› 12:46 I won't. 12:46 imma call you "dab" from now on 12:46 <@mtf> 😦 12:47 <@mtf> but why, do you not like my pings? 12:47 @mtf there does exist such a bot 12:47 GoldenIvy tried to bully me into that at one point, and it just rubs me the wrong way. 12:47 I have an ancient mIRC bot laying around 12:47 not running, but yeah 12:47 jonadab: do you hilite on "fourk" or variations? 12:47 aos: Yes. 12:47 <@mtf> jona: seems like a weird thing to get hung up on though... personally I'd want to get all the messages directed at me as possible 12:48 <@mtf> and unfortunately autocomplete doesn't work on this end 😦 12:48 @mtf It's not like tab completion doesn't exist, if someone wants to nickping me. 12:48 <@mtf> it doens't exist for me 12:48 <@mtf> that's what I'm saying 12:48 Ah. 12:48 That is not my fault. 12:48 <@mtf> this isn't laziness, I'd literally have to type out your name every time 12:48 <@mtf> no, it's not 12:48 <@mtf> never said it was 12:48 <@mtf> but that's why I'm saying I don't understand not wanting to add that highlight 12:49 <@mtf> up to you though, do your thing πŸ˜› 12:49 I should configure "xnethack" as a hilite, not that anyone offhandedly mentions it 12:49 I also write jona when on discord :P 12:49 but it's not really my choice what jonadab wants to be highlighted on 12:50 <@mtf> I agree FIQ, I was more asking about the reason than trying to tell him to do anything 12:50 some people hate it when their irc client makes a noise every five seconds 12:50 Making a noise isn't something I have irssi configured to do. 12:51 my client makes no noise 12:51 however, it does put a notification dialog for around 5s 12:51 <@mtf> my desktop, laptop, and phone all makes pings simultaneously whenever I get pinged 12:51 <@mtf> lol 12:51 that overrides everything, including e.g. fullscreen games 12:51 <@mtf> it annoys the hell out of my coworkers 12:51 @mtf I could set up something like that, but I don't really want it. 12:51 if I am on the computer at the moment, I will not miss it 12:51 @mtf Haha 12:52 Actually, at work, I don't have sound hooked up on my workstation at all. 12:52 Don't want it. 12:52 <@mtf> ... wat 12:52 At home, obviously, I do. 12:52 <@mtf> I have a 2.1 sound system with a 10" sub at work 12:52 <@mtf> for friday's, obviously 12:52 <@mtf> πŸ˜› 12:53 Technically, following my own rules, I could hook up sound on mine, because it's in a separate office, not a public area. 12:53 <@mtf> walked into the office today and somebody had brought coffee and bailey's 12:53 <@mtf> was a nice surprise 12:53 But I don't want that sort of distraction here. 12:53 @mtf next time you mention being at work, I'll make sure to ping you as much as I can ;) 12:53 <@mtf> lolll great 12:53 (jk) 12:54 <@mtf> you'll have to compete with all the others on this server that ping me all day 12:54 @mtf Does it ping you more than once if we say @mtf repeatedly, @mtf @mtf @mtf, or does it have to be a new message for each ping? 12:54 @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf @mtf 12:54 <@mtf> I get one highlight and one sound pe rmessage 12:54 aw 12:54 <@mtf> thank god 12:54 haha 12:55 Indeed. 12:59 -!- oh6_ has joined #hardfought 12:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v oh6_] by ChanServ 13:03 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 13:07 <@JoeMaro> hurray for IRC bridges!!! <3 13:24 <@mtf> aren't they fun? πŸ˜ƒ 13:30 normally we don't use multiple exclamation marks or emoji :-P 13:30 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2018-01-11 00:50 EST: pushed a commit to fiq4 that fixes starting petnames 13:31 the only emoji I want to see is a flamethrower I can use to kill all other emoji 13:32 <@mtf> nothing wrong w/ emoji 13:32 <@mtf> they are much better at expressing emotion than text 13:32 !tell FIQ can you explain how that change works? it's inconsistent with the rest of the file and I'm worried that it might screw up allocation issues somewhere 13:32 Will do, ais523! 13:32 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:32 <@mtf> sometimes it's hard to get the context of a sentence across the internet without them 13:32 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 13:32 no it's not 13:33 <@mtf> sure it is 13:33 <@mtf> you'v enever heard of saracasm being lost on people over chat? 13:33 <@mtf> sarcasm* 13:33 sarcasm marks are helpful but there isn't even an emoji for that 13:33 (unless you count "kappa" as an emoji) 13:34 I've heard of sarcasm being lost on people in real life 13:34 <@mtf> you can use other emoji to express the sarcasm of the statement... you don't need a specific emoji for a specific type of communication 13:34 there are various marks that have been tried, I think people have settled on "/s" 13:34 the number of people O've met who understand a joke in text but not when spoken is staggering 13:34 it's at least unambiguous 13:34 ais523: how what change interacts with what? 13:34 FIQ: Message from ais523 at 2018-01-11 13:32 EST: can you explain how that change works? it's inconsistent with the rest of the file and I'm worried that it might screw up allocation issues somewhere 13:34 (".~" was used for a while but it was also used for other purposes so that lead to confusion) 13:34 <@mtf> crawl: and I've seen the opposite... that is anecdotal 13:34 FIQ: your recent change to fiq4 13:35 oh that 13:35 magic 13:35 well 13:35 <@mtf> lol 13:35 it is just the fix I applied to fh a year ago-ish 13:35 it originated with channelization 13:35 I'm worried that it's doing things like placing static strings in a location where they should be allocated strings 13:35 I think they used to be like that pre-channelization 13:35 like, why does catname need to be initialized to "" but setseed to null? 13:36 yeah I understand what you mean 13:36 so is yours, but the key thing about text communication is that you use words rather than facial expressions ti create tone and using emoji as a crutch fucks that whole system up for people like me who now have to wonder if every smiley face is a genuine smile or a sarcastic one. which I promise you is more difficult to derive from context than text is 13:36 * Crawldragon inhales 13:36 this is not an optimal fix, but I figured it was important to get *any* fix considering this is essentially uninitialized data and crash-prone 13:36 this isn't an area of the code where I'm comfortable with guessing 13:36 given how weird the bugs in it have been historically 13:37 btw, setseed had similar issues IIRC, games were being misinterpreted as setseed 13:37 and a combination of weird bugs + weird fixes = who know what will happen 13:39 I'm currently mentally geared up for working on my day job rather than on NH4, so I don't really want to merge something like this right now as it'll take hours of trying to work out if it works and, if so, why 13:39 and that sort of fix, across NH4 and vanilla, historically has something like a 50% success rate 13:39 which isn't great 13:39 ais523: OK, I double-checked pre-channelization code 13:40 It has petnames be NULL while keeping working 13:40 …maybe it only worked by coincidence? 13:41 as that shouldn't be connected 13:41 Well I don't really remember why I implemented this fix in first place, it was over a year ago 13:41 Maybe there was an actual reason? Then again, it's still a somewhhat dubious fix 13:41 (well I remember *why*, but I don't remember why I thought that would work) 13:42 <@mtf> crawl: I'm sorry, but I cannot agree that all communication can be expressed over text. Facial expressions and body language are very important aspects of communication, and talking over text is much more dififcult with out them... emoji do a good job of helping to bridge that gap 13:42 you and I clearly lead very different lifestyles 13:42 just use /s to mark sarcasm 13:42 there 13:42 problem solved 13:43 talking over text is often more convenient because it lets you send only the subset of your message that you care about 13:43 <@mtf> there are other subtle types of communication other than sarcasm πŸ˜› 13:43 rather than necessarily giving off a number of irrelevant body language cues 13:43 <@mtf> for example, I often use πŸ˜› to show that I"m speaking in playful jest 13:43 <@mtf> I think that comes across quite nicely 13:44 incidentally, one of the RFCs mentions in passing that a smiley is spelled ":-)", I've tried to put the hyphen in since so as to not violate them 13:44 lol 13:44 the hyphen was part of the original emoticon back when it was invented but most people drop it because typing is hard 13:45 =) 13:45 <@mtf> also a nose isn't really necessary xD 13:45 a pet peeve of mine regarding that emote 13:45 i like the nose. none of my smileys look right without a nose. 13:45 people like to omit the ending parenthesis if it ends with that emote 13:45 but that is *wrong* 13:46 <@mtf> hahaha FIQ 13:46 there's an xkcd about this 13:46 @mtf I get what Crawldragon is saying that if you end a text message with a smiley emoji, it can be interpreted as mocking 13:46 <@mtf> that's such a small thing to irk you... but I feel exactl ythe same way 13:46 (I always do put both parentheses in, normally with a space between :-) ) 13:46 When I was in college I noted that typing %) on my graphing calculator looked like a nerdy guy with a huge nose smiling 13:46 ais523: yeah similar 13:46 but I, at least, don't tend to parse a :) as mocking by default 13:46 <@mtf> aos: Well obviously you have to use the emoji in a way that conveys what you are trying to say... the same can be said with facial expressions and body language 13:46 ever since ai've been trying to think of a funny use case for a %) smiley but it's just not happening 13:47 (but then I'm the sort of person who writes both the period on "etc." and the period for the end of a sentence even if they appear next to each other, assuming we're not using IRC grammar) 13:47 aos: IME the most common meaning of ":-)" is that the comment isn't intended entirely seriously (but nor is it sarcastic or saying the opposite of what it means) 13:47 <@mtf> Don't get me wrong guys, the world tends to overuse emoji in ways that make them extremely irritating 13:47 <@mtf> but they do have their place 13:47 I remember emoji being invented 13:48 yes, much like emoticons 13:48 the world got by just fine before that 13:48 overuse emoji? :o not sure what you're talking about xD , how can you overuse emoji :P? 13:48 <@mtf> the world got by just fine before computers too πŸ˜› 13:49 that's a damn lue. the world was a shithouse before computers. 13:49 <@JoeMaro> is " <3 " an emoji? i thought it isn't 13:49 @mtf: your emoji are actually making your lines harder to understand atm rather than easier 13:49 no, it's an emoticon. 13:49 @JoeMaro: it's an emoticon, technically speaking 13:49 <@mtf> ais: That's because of the IRC bridge / IRC though, not me 13:49 <@mtf> looks great in discord 13:49 the emoji version would be β™₯ 13:49 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/401085278359650305/unknown.png 13:50 an emoji is a shape made using text characters, like miniature ascii art. an emoji is a text character specifically meant to serve as an image. 13:50 * ais523 is mildly amazed that a) there's a β™₯ on their keyboard and b) they guessed how to type it first try 13:50 I personally always interpreted :P as a variant of :) but more playful/laughing/whatever 13:50 <@mtf> that's exactly how I interpret it FIQ 13:50 -!- joemaro has joined #hardfought 13:50 fuck sake I cqn't form sentences and type at the same time on this keybiard 13:50 <@mtf> lol crawl 13:50 ais523: compose < 3 ? 13:51 FIQ: yes 13:51 figured as much 13:51 <@wheals> disagree, ❀ is more correct as an emoji version 13:51 @wheals: oh, possibly 13:52 I see text presentation for both (unsurprisingly) so it's hard to figure out 13:52 and most systems don't implement extended emoji combinations anyway 13:52 the Unicode standard has things like specifying the skin color of emoji, composing emoji into larger emoji, and the like 13:52 <@mtf> that's crazy 13:53 I think the skin color thing was an attempt to prevent people implementing emoji in a racially insensitive way due to not thinking about it, this basically forces them to think about it 13:53 unicode is the unifying standard that made language more pointlessly confusing than it was before and that's really saying something 13:54 CJK 13:54 FIQ: Korean is way harder to support than Chinese or Japanese 13:55 How? 13:55 <@wheals> ironic, since it's supposed to be much easier to learn 13:55 I've been learning a lot of unicode so that libuncursed2 can a) support it correctly and b) help programs using libuncursed2 to support it correctly without having to know this stuff 13:55 ais523: unicode CJK te way I understood it is pretty much a failure 13:55 Korean only has one writing system unless I'm mistaken 13:55 at least it is handled inconsistently to basically every other language/platform/whatnot in unicode 13:55 Crawldragon: you can render multiple jamo in the same 2-wide-by-1-high rectangle 13:56 so the algorithm for calculating how much space a given piece of text will take up is more complicated for korean than pretty much any other language 14:02 -!- joemaro has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:08 ais523: The thing about Korean though, is there's such a thing as a font size where most characters are legible. That isn't really the case with Chinese. 14:08 You can crank it up to 36-point so that the characters with single-digit stroke counts look like headlines, and you still can't make out the finer details on the things made out of 4894 radicals. 14:08 jonadab: I didn't say Korean was inferior or anythingn like that, just that it was the hardest of the three to support 14:09 Sure. 14:09 But IMO, being able to render at a size that makes everything legible should be part of the minimal standard for support. 14:09 that isn't really the program's fault though 14:09 I'm not convinced written Chinese is _possible_ to support on current hardware. 14:10 finding a size at which the characters you want to read are legible is a user setting 14:10 It really needs ink-on-paper levels of resolution. 14:10 Ah, I suppose if you let the user scale it up and down, true. 14:10 you'd probably want to use a vector font for that 14:12 most fonts are vector nowadays anyway 14:12 Almost all. 14:12 or hinted, i.e. they have a vector component but also rendering corrections for specific sizes 14:12 Well, yes. 14:12 Which is useful for very small sizes. 14:12 Like 6pt, 8pt. 14:12 Less important for sizes like 16pt. 14:13 I normally use pretty small font sizes for English 14:13 I sometimes do, depending on what I'm doing. 14:13 I use either 12pt for reading or 8pt for working 14:14 Though I learned a long time ago that if I'm intending to hand something out to other people, the minimum font size is about three times as large as I would've thought for myself. 14:15 I've been known to print documents in 4.5px before but that's because I needed to fit as much text as possible onto the minimum amount of paper 14:15 it's much smaller than I'd find comfortable to rea 14:15 *read 14:16 Anything under 6pt is an exotic special case, IMO. 14:16 6pt is fine print. 14:17 People with good vision can comfortably read 8pt no problem, but only about half the population has good vision. 14:17 If there are over-50 people in your audience, it's best to assume that anything under 16pt is going to be uncomfortable for somebody. 14:18 If not outright illegible. 14:19 Maybe this is because Americans don't get reading glasses when they should, though. 14:27 -!- joemaro has joined #hardfought 14:31 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 14:31 jonadab: how much does a sight test cost in the US? 14:31 in the UK it's about Β£10-Β£20, I don't know whether the NHS subsidise it (they do for most health-related things but it's possible this is an exception) 14:31 I know they subsidise the cost of the glasses themselves for people on low income who need a pair 14:33 [hdf-us] [nh4] SammyBSOD (Luxidream) (Sam Hum Mal Law), 265848 points, T:54436, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/nethack4/dumplog/2018-01-11%2019%3A33%3A04%2C%20SammyBSOD-Sam-Hum-Mal-Law%2C%20ascended.txt 14:36 ais523: Dunno, but you can buy non-prescription reading glasses for like five or ten bucks. 14:36 Try out different ones, pick the pair that helps you see best. 14:36 oh, you can do that here too 14:36 Getting actual prescription glasses is significantly more expensive, of course. 14:37 But for just being able to read smaller print on paper, you don't need that necessarily. 14:37 there, now uvm/mvm/mvu melee all use the same code, and it doesn't blow up 14:37 allthough there's still various damage types unimplemented 14:37 as well as the more complex attack types (engulfing, hugging) 14:38 Sounds like progress. 14:38 Pretty sure if I ever get rebased on xhity, I'll become unwilling to work on code that doesn't have it. 14:39 (I'm already sort of unwilling to work on non-NH4 NetHack code. Mostly.) 14:39 xhity is one of the major blockers for multiplayer 14:39 currently monsters use a "compatibility" function, the old mattackm/mattacku functions 14:39 that returns what the relevant functions want 14:39 ais523: Oh, interesting point. Though there are other blockers for that as well. 14:39 but it just calls mattack 14:39 jonadab: definitely 14:40 there's no uhitu and writing one would be hard 14:40 this is why AceHack bans PvP, it was easier to find all potential PvP and make it do nothing than it would have been to make it do something 14:40 I can see that. 14:40 endgame should be monsters just calling player commands 14:40 making the concept of "u" and "m" mostly irrelevant 14:41 endgame should be no distinction between monster and player but the AI 14:41 ais523: exactly 14:41 win_request_command vs ai_request_command 14:41 or similar 14:41 haha, now I'm imagining the monster AI being a windowport 14:42 (fwiw, I decided that if I ever write a roguelike from scratch I'm going to /start out/ with the "monster AI is a windowport" technique, it should be easy if you base the code on it) 14:44 ais523: FIQHack's musable AI logic basically uses getpos/getobj/etc just like players do 14:45 a mgetpos/mgetobj/etc which takes a musable instead of a nh_cmd_arg 14:45 and a function that converts nh_cmd_arg->musable for player benefit 14:45 ooh, neat 14:45 ais523: I like that idea. 14:46 Except I kind of want more than one monster AI. 14:46 in master I went even further and made some of the game commands take musables directly 14:46 and made the AI call them 14:46 -!- nht has quit [Quit: nht] 14:46 https://raw.githubusercontent.com/FredrIQ/fiqhack/master/libnethack/src/muse.c 14:54 <@mtf> luxi you are crazy 14:54 ais523: how are the different us kept around anyway? 14:54 in AceHack 14:55 they surely isn't stored in the youmonst 15:02 only one is loaded at a time 15:02 i.e. each process only has one u 15:02 the processes take turns to update the gamestate, whenever one particular u is involved it's its process that does the update 15:03 and the save/restore code is used to serialize the gamestate and pass it between processes 15:03 when processes aren't on the same level they run in parallel, given that they don't have any common subset of gamestate loaded 15:04 this is fairly insane but was the easiest way to make things work 15:04 <@Amnekian> 3 nethack channels? 15:04 <@Amnekian> Amazing 15:08 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 15:09 I'm in four right now 15:09 and I'm aware if the existence of at least three others 15:10 I'm in 11 15:10 I'm in 8 right now and normally idle 9 15:10 nice 15:10 (I left one due to my personal channel limit, I don't like to idle too many places) 15:10 though 4 of them are variant channels that see zero or little discussion 15:11 ais523: would it be pointless you think to have a bashmsg for monsters to preserve the old "The gnome thrusts his dagger. The gnome hits!", but only once? 15:11 It doesn't seem to exist in FIQHack anymore (even before xhity merge), it possibly disappeared as part of channelization 15:12 I don't know why vanilla has taht 15:12 but letting the player know what weapon a monster is using seems useful? 15:12 ais523: It lets you see the monster's weapon 15:12 "the gnome thrusts 7 daggers" 15:12 It is about the only use it has 15:13 <@luxidream> @mtf haha, thanks 15:13 ais523: also wondering if it should be similar for players 15:13 it kind of drives me crazy thst looking at a monster doesn't reveal its weapon 15:13 as a replacement for the current bashmsg behaviour, always reset it upon switching weapon 15:13 <@mtf> πŸ˜„ 15:13 to ensure the player doesn't miss using a bad weapon 15:13 so you can see them equipping shit but not holding it. logic. 15:13 or would that get spammy you think? 15:14 you should ask ##nethack-variants this 15:14 it's a design question 15:16 Hmm, NetHack-related channels I'm in: active and on-topic: #nethack, #nethack4, ##nethack-variants, ##nethack-discord, #hardfought, #nethack-dev, [redacted], #nethackwiki; not currently really active: #junethack, #fiddlehack; off-topic but populated by NetHack people: #nethack-offtopic, [redacted] 15:16 Oh, and ascension.run (also in the last category mostly). 15:16 <@luxidream> oh, fiddlehack 15:16 <@luxidream> wonder how flump's doing on that 15:18 jonadab: huh, I only have one [redacted] and it doesn't match either of yours 15:19 ais523: I think it does match the first one. The dev channel. 15:19 I am not in any redacted channels 15:19 Actually I am, I supose 15:19 *suppose 15:19 jonadab: it can't possibly 15:19 I was previously in another redacted channel, but that is dead now. 15:19 unless you're talking about the leak discussion channel, but I haven't been there for ages and can't remember where it is 15:19 ais523: Maybe you wouldn't have redacted that one? 15:19 No, that's the dead one. 15:20 right, I didn't realise it was redacted 15:21 Was there actually any interesting discussion in the leak channel? 15:21 My other redacted channel is purely social, but consists entirely of people from the NetHack community. It was started by a person who was having a fight with kerio and wanted a safe place. 15:21 It bugs me that there are places I can't access :P 15:21 but I guess I'm hardly alone in that 15:21 (I've seen social channels started that way at least twice, though the other time kerio was not involved.) 15:21 /nsa 15:21 FIQ: it was very political 15:21 jonadab: oh I know who you are referring to 15:21 the devteam were unsurprisingly upset about the leak 15:22 and many people had strong opinions 15:22 I learned how to configure an irc client to use ssl just so I could join #ascension.run 15:22 there wasn't much technical discussion 15:22 and then kerio told me to get the fuck out 15:22 ah 15:22 Crawldragon: it's kerio 15:22 * jonadab has been kicked by kerio enough times I've lost count. 15:22 I'd rather not be in asc, but I'd also rather not miss fh issue reports 15:23 Right, I mainly care about being in there during June. 15:23 also I have left the channels in month periods sometimes 15:23 how do you get kicked by kerio? 15:23 is ascrun publically logged? 15:23 Crawldragon: asking would work easily enough, I imagine 15:23 ais523: no 15:23 there are probably other ways 15:23 i've been kicked by Elronnd more than a few times 15:23 that would render the SSL enforcement rather pointless 15:23 Crawldragon: For example, one time I made a non-disparaging comment about American Italian cuisine. 15:23 [hdf-us] [nh] pavelek (Mon Hum Mal Law), 1954 points, T:1452, killed by a dingo 15:23 mmmm, Italian 15:23 Crawldragon: Another time I linked to a git repo that contained Perl code. 15:23 jonadab: I've been kicked more than once by kerio 15:24 jonadab: such as, say, NH4's repo? 15:24 "Your behaviour is not conducive to the current environment" 15:25 ais523: Well, no, this was almost entirely Perl code. Someone mentioned FizzBuzz, and I linked to https://github.com/tsadok/fizzbuzz 15:25 <@mtf> FIQ: https://twitter.com/adom_dev/status/951521810989895680 15:25 <@mtf> sad day 😦 15:25 an example 15:25 2016-11-16 15:56:37 FIQ I'm using ubntu 15:25 jonadab: as soon as I saw that URL I realised it would necessarily be massively overengineered 15:25 2016-11-16 15:56:43 FIQ Because that was the easiest to set up 15:25 2016-11-16 15:56:44 <-- kerio has kicked FIQ (Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.) 15:25 <@mtf> well that sounds rather dickish 15:26 doesn't CPAN have int β†’ natural language conversion routines though? 15:26 @mtf the joys of using a 3rd-party GUI 15:26 <@mtf> yup lol 15:26 ais523: NOt sure, it might. 15:26 this is CPAN 15:26 it has everything 15:26 apart from a memory usage profiler for some reason 15:26 True. And yes, a non-overengineered FizzBuzz solution would be a one-liner. 15:27 does it have cookies 15:27 So there'd be not much point in a repository, would there. 15:27 jonadab: https://esolangs.org/wiki/BuzzFizz is what happens when you get /me/ interested in fizzbuzz 15:27 although that was designed more as a counterexample than anything else, it's a language that a) isn't Turing-complete but b) can do most "only Turing-complete languages can do this" tasks 15:28 other than the ones that /actually/ require a Turing-complete lnguage 15:28 jonadab: I wonder if kerio stopped kicking me because I tended to respond by being away from the channel for weeks 15:28 it's also really good at fizzbuzz, which is not entirely a coincidence 15:28 FIQ: that's my normal response to a joke kick 15:28 ais523: heh, I can see why ; 15:28 it tends to have the right effect on op education 15:28 *;p 15:28 yeah 15:28 exactly 15:29 I should try that on Elronnd next time he kicks me for using Windows 15:29 ais523: If the only thing stopping it from being Turing-complete is the ability to access theoretically unlimited memory/storage, that is not an important limitation unless your absolute limit is quite small. 15:29 now I'm wondering what #ascension.run-approved OSes are 15:29 just OS X and, what, Arch? 15:30 probably BSD 15:30 In practice, actualy theoretically-Turing-complete languages never actually have infinite storage available. 15:30 jonadab: the limit's proportional to the size of the input 15:30 Ah. 15:30 it's an LBA, it can run any algorithm that uses no more than O(n) memory 15:30 FIQ: It hasn't stopped him from kicking me occasionally. 15:31 At least, not the first couple of times. 15:31 ais523: FreeBSD is kerio's current favorite. zfs 15:31 jonadab: Just don't rejoin 15:31 Menche constantly advocates OpenBSD in there and hasn't yet got kicked for it that I've noticed. 15:32 For a while, or ever 15:32 He'll stop 15:32 FIQ: I generally just wait until the next power outage restarts my client. 15:32 Which causes autojoin automatically. 15:32 jonadab: more fun to disable autojoin from that channel entirely 15:32 Unless there's a reason I specifically want to be in there, e.g., Junethack. 15:32 and only join when you feel like it :-) 15:33 it will annoy kerio 15:34 hmm, if I joined and then parted before kerio could kick me 15:34 would I be banned? 15:34 I'm putting the odds at about 50:50 atm 15:34 he would probably just ignore it 15:34 also you can't join 15:34 you need to have SSL enabled 15:35 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 15:35 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 15:35 ais523: I can only think off the top of my head of one person he's banned. Normally he just kicks. 15:35 But yes, you can only join that channel if you are on an SSL connect and registered with services. 15:35 I think the latter is specifically intended to keep one particular person out. 15:35 Though I could be wrong. 15:36 The SSL requirement is, of course, mostly because kerio is obsessed with crytpography. 15:36 at some point using too much crypto is going to make you less secure 15:36 crypto code has bugs in too 15:36 jonadab: my main issue with it is that it prevents people from joining the channel if they have server problems 15:36 and don't know how IRC works 15:37 then again, I'm not really sure if it matters 15:37 kerio has a tendency to not fix issues on his server anyway 15:37 nethack support-wise 15:43 I constantly advocate for OpenBSD? … I guess I do 15:55 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 15:55 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 15:57 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 16:04 heh 16:05 caught up on backscroll 16:05 hi all 16:05 i dont think i've ever been kicked by kerio, and i'm kind of surprised 16:05 i called him out once because he was giving dtype a hard time 16:06 * K2 shrugs 16:08 <@wheals> it's solidarity with a fellow K name 16:09 FIQ when I get time tonight, i'm going to add dgl extrainfo to unnethack 16:09 @wheals hah 16:10 K2: I think kerio has a certain amount of respect for dtype owing to his past contributions. 16:10 And present, for that matter. 16:10 you wouldnt have been able to tell that day 16:10 He's not _close_ to dtype like he is to deepy. 16:10 i think i called kerio an asshole 16:10 in his channel 16:10 Well, kerio's way of showing respect is to treat people as equals. 16:11 meh, I'll live. :) 16:11 :) 16:12 it's too bad kerio has a bad rep, he's a talented programmer from what i can tell 16:12 kerio's very talented, yes. 16:14 he put together the wstty glue that we use now to bridge the hterm web term to nao over an internal telnet connection 16:15 Yes, I remember that. 16:15 just have to be selective on which stuff you listen to. :) 16:16 heh 16:16 anyway, FIQ, I too have no idea how IRC works, and I mean on an existential level. heh 16:17 @mtf is noteye open source? 16:17 i'm too lazy to backscroll that far but I see discort-bot is gone 16:18 dtype: it was just renamed 16:18 to rld 16:18 as far as I can tell IRC is a jumble of servers held together with spit that so far has proven more reilient than any attempt to replace it purely by virtue of people having spent so long trying to stop it falling apart 16:18 <@mtf> that's a good question 16:18 https://github.com/zenorogue/noteye apparently the answer to that question is "yes" 16:18 huh 16:18 surprised nobody bothered looking into the noteye crashes 16:18 surely they don't just affect ADOM? 16:18 Crawldragon: sounds about right 16:19 <@mtf> FIQ: yea I just saw that 16:20 <@mtf> I have no idea what the scope of issues is for noteye 16:20 NotEye is in a weird situation where it'a GPL licensed software but you can get an exception like ADOM has 16:20 <@mtf> I wish there was more logging for issues with crashes in ADOM/Noteye 16:20 Crawldragon: does ADOM at least use an open sourced noteye without modifications? 16:20 so ADOM isn't required to disclose any changes to NotEye that might cause crashes 16:21 I have no idea. I would guess that some changes have been made but I dunno 16:21 Crawldragon: I have a feeling zenorogue got money for that :P 16:23 Possibly, but I prefer to assume that Tom just sent Zeno a screenshot of annoying e-mails from pricks demanding the source code and said "If you let me have this, I will use your software as the source for more hilarity." 16:31 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Mal Law) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:50421 16:45 jonadab: how should I handle non-mvu foocubi..? 16:45 it isn't *technically* difficult, but... no 16:49 "What do you want to zap? [fRY or ?*]" 16:49 like re-heating yesterday's fried rice lol 16:50 -!- Grassy is now known as Grasshopper_ 16:51 YASI: killing things with fire might produce cooked corpses which give more nutrition but has a less chance of giving trinsics 16:53 [hdf-us] [nh4] K2 (k2) (Arc Hum Mal Law), 45444 points, T:10398, killed by a bolt of lightning 16:53 FIQ, and improves the palatability (flavour) of the corpse to something like "Mmmmm, tasty BBQ!" 16:54 !tell @K2 You can use an @ before the name in !tell to ping discord users. I'll have a look at integrating this better later when I have time. 16:54 Will do, Tangles! 16:54 right now it just works by accitent. 16:54 Tangles: we tried that 16:54 it didn't work 16:54 accident 16:54 maybe because of color codes? 16:54 right 16:54 oh right yes those. 16:54 discord can use !tell for irc users no problem 16:54 but not vice versa 16:54 -!- mode/#hardfought [+c] by FIQ 16:54 -!- mode/#hardfought [-c] by ChanServ 16:55 * FIQ zaps ChanServ with a wand of fire 16:55 those things that make me think I've been highlighted every time luxidream says something. 16:55 lol 16:55 that is definitely the issue. I'll fix it later. 16:55 heh 16:55 ok see you all in a bit 16:55 !tell @2FIQ test 16:55 Will do, FIQ! 16:56 <@FIQ> test 16:56 !tell @2FIQ test2 16:56 Will do, FIQ! 16:56 !tell @2FIQ test3 16:56 Will do, FIQ! 16:56 <@FIQ> now? 16:56 <@FIQ> whatever 16:57 <@wheals> is tell really necessary? discord users can just check their pings 16:57 <@wheals> (necessary for sending to discord users i mean) 16:57 @wheals gets confusing to handle users differently, at least for IRC people 16:57 <@wheals> i suppose 16:59 <@riker> @wheals I like it just for completion's sake 17:00 -!- Crawldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:05 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 17:14 my healer didn't start with sufficient to cast healing... 17:15 *sufficient power 17:22 StatueSurfer, still an intern? 17:23 heh 17:23 i just quit that one and my next one actually had enough power to cast healing 17:23 or maybe just doesn't have medical insurance 17:25 i found kicking boots early, and apparently these will do more damage that my starting weapon 17:25 *than 17:26 <@luxidream> Maybe your healer uses actual medicine to heal people 17:26 <@luxidream> and not magic 17:27 [hdf-us] [nh] pavelek (Val Hum Fem Law), 15272 points, T:3908, killed by strangulation 17:27 actual medicine? 17:28 this isn't slashem 17:30 <@luxidream> I mean, shoving a potion of healing across the counter is still medicine 17:32 potions are magical though 17:37 -!- joemaro has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:42 kicking things to death certainly has a high entertainment value 17:45 argh argh distracted by real life 17:45 -!- Crawldragon has joined #hardfought 17:46 <@riker> hey k2 I found something for you 17:46 <@riker> you can hide discord channels 17:46 <@riker> as long as you mute them first 18:04 and my healer got killed 18:05 both my healers have died in the lower mines 18:08 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:12 <@luxidream> why did you go to lower mines 18:12 <@luxidream> it’s spooky there 18:12 to get the luckstone obviously 18:12 and it was spooky there was a werewolf a zombie and a spider 18:12 <@riker> not to say hi to all the poor gnomes nobody likes? 18:12 and then i stepped on a magic trap 18:15 StatueSurfer: you playon on nao I guess? 18:15 yeah 18:15 ah 18:29 -!- ThatBenGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:33 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 18:33 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 18:47 -!- StatueSurfer has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:54 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 18:54 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:14 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Mal Law) performed his first genocide (class m), on T:52511 19:14 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 19:15 huh, m genocide? that late in the game? 19:15 is this desperation for a specific item, and hoping it generates in Orcustown? 19:17 In vanilla I think he's a big advocate of geno'ing m for more random items in Orcus town 19:17 in that case you may as well do it as soon as you get a ?oGeno 19:17 in the hope of getting more items in regular shops too 19:17 it's not like the effect times out 19:18 If you either have more important things to geno, or don't get a scroll til the castle (or later), then it doesn't really matter I guess 19:18 <@luxidream> I’ve done it a few times, got mostly garbage 19:18 !whereis Grasshopper 19:18 greqrg: [hdf-us] Grasshopper [nd]: No details available 19:19 I've never tried it 19:19 never sounded terribly useful on paper to me 19:19 but random item generation is always good so I can see the utility 19:20 I'm usually just not looking for much by the time I'm at Orcus 19:20 right, it really does give you significantly more items, but they're just random Gehennom filler items 19:20 they could be good but the odds are against it 19:21 Do they have different item probabilities than, say, random items in mine's end or other special levels? 19:22 either way, it's a longshot if you're just hoping for a ring of free action or something 19:23 greqrg: they do, but IIRC not in a way that really matters 19:23 Gehennom filler items and Dungeons filler items are different in terms of generation probabilities 19:24 yeah that doesn't matter much 19:26 I think I'll try that for a few games and see what happens, just for the hell of it 19:29 There are a few things I'm missing: ring of free action, ring of lev for example 19:30 ais523, greqrg either way, I'm not playing for conducts so I figured I may as well geno m to maybe get more loot from Orcustown. Better than polypiling for stuff 19:31 sometimes I get a magic lamp there 19:32 I *could* go and geno L or something, but honestly they aren't too bothersome atm and they come in handy sometimes (they help you find the upstairs!) 19:33 is "L help you find the upstairs!" a meme? I've seen it a few times before, but not for a while 19:36 Never heard that one 19:36 You'd want to use Asmo if you legitimately wanted to do some mapping 19:37 he's already dead, I tend to just kill demon lords. So boring IDK 19:38 [hdf-us] [nh4] K2 (k2) (Arc Hum Mal Law), 26730 points, T:1680, killed by a werejackal 19:38 using L to find upstairs works better if you go bottom-up 19:39 "You feel rankled." that's a new one. Got that from stepping onto a magic trap 19:39 <@dtype> oh look I can be on this side of the bridge too. 19:39 means I got monsters from the trap, but as I'm already deaf and blind... 19:39 FIQ: Well, given the "time stands still" flavor of the mvu interaction there, I think you can afford to just skip informing the player about the details. 19:40 If that helps at all. 19:40 <@dtype> great, now if someone says my name in channel I can get dinged on my phone twice, browser twice... 19:40 what a world we live in 19:40 dtype dtype dtype dtype dtype... 19:41 FIQ: Beyond that, some of it just won't apply (I'm sort of assuming you didn't implement e.g. monster charisma...) 19:41 aaahhhhh! 19:41 @dtype 19:41 ding 19:41 You know, you could probably turn off the dinging on one of the devices. 19:41 sweet hell make it stop 19:41 :) 19:42 wait, people get pinged on Discord-side even without the @? 19:42 highlighted only it seems 19:42 is that what rld is? a discord bot? 19:42 So if I say dtype you get dinged once on each device, but if I say @dtype, twice on each? 19:43 Oh, is rld the new name of RLDiscord? 19:43 jonadab: still working on discord notifications 19:43 <@riker> yep 19:43 why are you ircing with both your phone and your pc at the same time? 19:43 ah I see mentions only with the @ 19:43 Crawldragon: I proxy to irc through irccloud 19:43 as all sane people should 19:44 dtype: Wait, shouldn't you be advocating running an IRC client on AWS? 19:44 nah, ec2 is a crutch 19:44 one I use a lot, but still 19:45 and aws doesn't have its own messaging with an irc proxy or bridge 19:45 So set one up! znc! 19:45 Containerized znc! 19:45 (Would that even work?) 19:45 nah, the irccloud folks did it right 19:45 I just use AndChat 19:46 Haven't heard of that one, is it Yet Another Graphical IRC Client That Won't Run in Gnu Screen? 19:47 Ah, Android phone app. So yes, but that's hardly even relevant given the platform. 19:50 to be honest I was just glad I found . mobile irc client that wasn't total trash. all I need now is a text editor and an ssh client. 19:55 [hdf-us] [nh4] tizakit (Sam Hum Mal Law), 36624 points, T:2756, killed by a human mummy 19:59 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Mal Law) killed Orcus, on T:53287 20:02 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Mal Law) killed the invisible Baalzebub, on T:53320 20:03 jonadab: monsters have dummy attributes of sort 20:03 to be implemented properly later 20:03 it's basically a small set of special cases 20:03 to make things that use it work somewhat sanely 20:03 for example, fail% for casting 20:03 or constitution for HP regen speed 20:04 modifiers with rings/whatnot work fine, but the base attributes are just a set of special cases 20:05 jonadab: right, I can get away with mvm by some sort of "X and Y shimmer for a moment" or similar, and skip the... details 20:05 but *uvm*? 20:06 I don't think there is anything I can do there 20:07 That wouldn't end up being really awkward... slex-awkward 20:07 <[Demo]> yeah dont wanna make it slexual 20:09 FIQ: what sort of uvm? 20:09 ais523: AD_SSEX 20:10 eww 20:10 s/wouldn't/would/ 20:10 ais523: yeah as I said 20:10 I don't think there is anything sane I can do there 20:10 :P 20:10 "Time passes as [CENSORED]" 20:10 "No, horses don't fit there." 20:10 but maybe we should just remove this mechanic from the game entirely 20:11 <@luxidream> https://alt.org/nethack/dudley/?381 20:11 it was made optional in the first place, and likely for good reason 20:11 because people play nethack in the office? 20:12 ais523: Probably the only optional feature that I'd consider disabling at all, but I don't care about it enough to do anything about it 20:12 there are a few features that make me uncomfortable 20:12 but mostly for legal reasons, that's one of the few which is more a good taste issue 20:12 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:13 Surely seducing monsters has benefit since you can strip their armor. maybe you can just alias AD_SSEX to AE_SEDU 20:13 AD_SSEX is really the only feature that makes me uncomfortable 20:13 And very little so 20:13 Mostly when overthinking it :P 20:13 -!- lorimer has joined #hardfought 20:13 But it would end up much worse if it worked in uvm context 20:13 I've only once had a NetHack game make me uncomfortable and it was when Amy implemented a ball-kicking attack in Slex 20:14 Crawldragon: slex has a ton of that 20:14 Crawldragon: this sort of thing is the first thing that made me not want to play slex 20:14 Yes, that's why I don't play Slex 20:14 it is not currently the only reason I don't play slex, but it is the one that initially put me off it 20:14 Ooooo, fencing gloves! Nice. I need to fix some fences and the wire always makes little cuts on my fingers 20:14 Grasshopper_: heh 20:14 :D 20:15 * ais523 vaguely wonders if that works in real life 20:15 I don't see why it wouldn't, real-life fencing gloves are after all designed to protect against more or less exactly that sort of injury 20:15 generally I just use pliers 20:16 <@Entitas> slexy is a classy game made by an Extremely Normal Person 20:17 ais523: dnethack has a large range of additional AD_SSEX-y attacks, generally on demon lords 20:17 but they aren't really any worse than what vanilla has, beyond having more of it 20:17 The only reason I kind of found myself liking Slex is the inclusion of Elder Scrolls monsters. 20:17 (and it's meant as hazards that make you naked, which you don't really want to be when facing dnh demon lords) 20:18 I'k wurprised that a TES Roguelike still hasn't been done. I've seen Wing Commander Roguelikes, three different Tolkein Roguelikes... 20:18 the armour-removing effect is a good one balance-wise but there should ideally be other ways to flavour it 20:19 like the item teleporter from Tomb of Horrors, but that would probably be too mean, at least if it affects your entire inventory 20:19 (Tomb of Horrors is not known for being particularly winnable) 20:19 foocubi atm make for a really convenient way to gain levels 20:19 I've used them for pacifist 20:19 it's the only thing I'd miss if AD_SSEX was actually removed 20:19 right, I hve no general issue with the balance of the feature, that isn't the problem 20:20 ais523: right, just saying what'd happen if you just removed it 20:20 :P 20:20 and the answer is "not much, allthough it would make pacifist level gain more annoying" 20:20 paci could do with alternate methods of level gain anyway 20:21 hmm, it'd be a big gameplay change, but what about crediting the player for kills by pets? 20:21 err, although without breaking paci, obviously 20:21 that would be a major change 20:21 unless you want paci players to get /really/ creative :-P 20:21 I think it's kind of cute how friendly incubi might give you a ring of adornment to wear. I would miss that if it was gone. 20:21 dnethack bards do that 20:21 Crawldragon: it's from your own inventory though 20:21 It'a the thought that counts. 20:21 ais523: you could make xp shared among the things that damaged the monster 20:22 but that would make you have to track that 20:22 which sounds like wrok 20:22 *work 20:23 ais523: dnethack has a demon lord called Lamashtu 20:23 she specializes in teleporting your inventory 20:25 Sounds like a great party trick 20:25 jonadab: have you considered bringing the dragon caves branch to 4k? 20:25 4k could make better use of it than existing variants with it since it has various-age dragons 20:25 Crawldragon: "Respectable physicists got mad at this, partly because it was a debasement of science, but mostly because they didn't get invited to those sorts of parties." 20:26 -!- oh6_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:26 o/ 20:26 something like that, anyway, it's from the HHGTTG series 20:26 ais523: Heh 20:27 ais523: anyway the issue with pacifist level gain atm is that if you removed foocubi, the sanest way paci has to gain levels if he/she needs it is throne farming 20:27 throne farming isn't sane anyway 20:27 "sanest" 20:27 not sane 20:27 :P 20:28 NetHack needs more exploration-based ways to gain levels 20:28 hmm… perhaps entering the Valley and entering Gehennom should both give an automatic, unconditional level up? 20:28 maybe you could extend that to every branch, although those are the two that would matter 20:29 <@riker> you could port dnh's tourist thing 20:29 actually, no, that just means you postpone entering Sokoban and the Quest until later 20:29 <@riker> they get mlvl xp for seeing new monsters 20:29 Better idea: xp gain from completing every branch 20:29 the deeper the branch is the higher the gai 20:29 Crawldragon: no, the idea is that this gives you a guaranteed way to do 12β†’14 for the Quest 20:29 simply complete the Valley 20:29 4k has oracle give you 2 XLs outright rather than experience 20:29 for one major and one minor consultation 20:30 I like the way that you grind 12 levels and then cheat the last two, but NetHack is short on ways of doing the cheating 20:30 it also gives a free XL if you clear sokoban without issues 20:30 FIQ: that seems a bit nasty on unspoiled players, how are they going to guess that delaying talking to the Oracle will be helpful? 20:30 <@luxidream> why not just make quest accessible at 12 20:30 I do like the idea of experience for clearing Sokoban without cheating 20:30 in FIQHack it's accessible at 10 20:30 it fixes one of the major issues with the asc run 20:31 ais523: not sure if I get the connection between asc run and sokoban 20:31 @luxidream: because NetHack is about overcoming obstacles to improve your character, and the lvl 14 barrier is a) different in nature from the others, b) reasonably doable by grinding in vanilla, but c) faster to do via cheating with the last few items 20:31 FIQ: I didn't mean asc run 20:31 give me a moment to figure out what I did mean 20:31 oh, protection racket 20:32 I don't get it 20:33 FIQ: optimal prot racket strategy in 3.4.3 is probably to solve Sokoban at level 1 20:33 which isn't hard, assuming you initilaly skip the zoo and just go there for the wands/rings/food 20:33 that makes it forcibly impossible to solve Sokoban at xl1 unless you cheat intentionally 20:33 That means you'll effectively play pacifist for quite a while 20:34 yes, although the prot racket sucks as a strategy anyway if you aren't playing pacifist 20:34 also I'm not sure if this is true 20:34 at least not as a gnomish healer 20:34 <@luxidream> just giving the players levels for free for things they should already be doing amounts to just letting them in at a lower level 20:34 which easily has the easiest time with it 20:34 <@wheals> you could just put off putting in the last boulder then, couldn't you? 20:35 <@wheals> to avoid the levelup 20:35 <@wheals> if you're skipping the zoo anyway 20:35 I did that in 4k once actually 20:35 Solved all of Sokoban up to the last boulder 20:35 Then held off because I wanted to save the level up 20:35 for quest 20:35 <@wheals> or, unless there's another reward/punishment for soko cheating, just do a cheat 20:36 <@wheals> hm you might not have the tools for that necessarily though 20:36 <@luxidream> you can always squeeze 20:36 There was quite a while where you couldn't in nethack4 :P 20:36 due to an uim bug 20:36 This actually screwed me over once because I fell down a hole in Sokoban and became trapped 20:37 as a result 20:39 ais523: btw, I've been wondering if the general notion, at least on the wiki, that the best combo for protracket is gno hea 20:39 I think the best combo might be arc dwa 20:39 FIQ: huh, you pronounce "uim" starting with a vowel? 20:39 I mentally spell it out so it starts with consonantal y for me 20:39 ais523: this stems from my Swedish pronounciation of acronyms 20:39 although given that it's not a real word and has probably never been used in spoken conversation… 20:40 FIQ: ah, right, swedish "u" starts with a vowel then? 20:40 yes 20:40 Swedish vowels when pronounced alone don't change in tone at all unlike English 20:40 come to think of it, even if you pronounce "uim" as a single word, it /still/ starts with a consonant phoneme (consonantal u / w) 20:41 during the sound 20:41 ais523: I don't 20:41 u-i-m 20:42 think oo'im instead of yoo'im 20:42 yes, kinda like that 20:42 like the way "women" doesn't start with a consonant 20:42 Crawldragon: it does in UK English 20:42 wat 20:42 but I'm aware that some dialects have different rules 20:43 remove the w 20:43 oh you pronounce it with an invisible 'h' don't you? 20:43 Crawldragon: e.g. we'd say "a women's bathroom" 20:43 no, we pronounce it with a w 20:43 there are words with an invisible h in some British dialects but that isn't one of them 20:43 that's not a consonant though o_O 20:43 some dialects pretty much just add and remove h at random 20:45 ais523: UI is similar, if I dictated the pronounciation, it'd be "an UI" :P 20:45 rather than "a UI" 20:46 Crawldragon: w is a semivowel at best, but may well be a full consonant 20:46 and people nearly always consider semivowels as consonants anyway unless they're speaking really obscure languages 20:46 things starting with u is the only major case where I tend to unintentionally confuse a/an 20:47 due to the way I pronounce things mentally 20:47 (examples of well-known semivowels include l and s, neither of which are normally considered a vowel, but they have many of the same properties as vowels) 20:47 One of my pet peeves is people who get the/thee confused on words that unambiguously start with a vowel. 20:48 Crawldragon: I don't think that rule exists in UK English 20:48 we use both, but stressed "the" is only used for emphasis, rather than agreement with a following word 20:48 "the afternoon" and "the morning" have identical pronunciations of the first word 20:49 actually, maybe they don't 20:49 I just tried 20:49 I think it happens because people in the middle of a sentence will insert an "uhh" so their brain will catch up, causing them to parse the pronunciation of "the" as if the next word started with a vowel even if it didn't 20:49 I /think/ the same word for both and mentally sound it out the same way in both cases but if I actually say it out loud the pronounciation is indeed different 20:50 Yeah there are a lot of details about language that you don't always notice until it's pointed out 20:50 afternoon starts with an open mouth and morning a closed mouth 20:50 so your brain adapts how it stops the "eeee" sound for the coming word 20:51 hmm, probably the difference is linguistically irrelevant in English so your brain filters it out unless you're specifically listening for it 20:52 You would think so but the distinction exists and so it has to be either something you are taught or which you subconsciously pick up on 20:52 because it sounds wrong if you fuck it up ajd your brain doesn't want your speech to sound incorrect compared to the people around you 20:52 yes, it is a very subtle stop of the sound - with "morning" it drags out a little longer as you bring your lips together 20:53 <[Demo]> cosmos is a real badass 20:54 isn't "thee" just an archaic version of the 2nd person singular version of "them" (unsure what the form itself is called) 20:55 yeah, but I was using "thee" to illustrate the two different pronunciations of "the" 20:55 ah, sorry 20:56 Incidentally I'm pretty sure the old word "thou" is a root of the modern word "you," because we used the letter y as a placeholder for the letter that used to indicate the 'th' sound 20:57 FIQ: the original word for 2nd person singual was "thou" but it died out 20:57 "you" was second person plural 20:57 but it was also used in formal contexts, and eventually ended up taking over 20:57 object pronoun was the word I was looking for 20:57 looked it up 20:57 compare to tu vs. vous in French, or du vs. Sie in German 20:58 English pronouns are weird 20:59 Did you know that in old English gendered noun didn't necessarily correspond with the physical sex of a person being referred to? gender was a modifier on top of a gender-neutral noun. 20:59 not really any stranger than Swedish ones 21:00 at least not modern pronouns 21:00 English is weird in all sorts of ways, most features that other languages have we have but only for one or two words 21:00 e.g. English has gender but basically everything is neuter 21:00 "ship" is an example of a feminine word that doesn't describe a person, there aren't many though 21:00 I really hate languages that gender everything 21:01 you only find out that "table" is masculine after someone laughs at you for fucking it up and you have to go "I don't see a dick under that, do you!?" 21:04 this sort of thing is why I find languages like French and German much easier to read than write 21:06 I'm not sure if Japanese has gendered pronouns; they like to use wordier and more descriptive language like "this person next to me" rather than directly referencing thingw 21:08 in Japanese, the grammar takes into account things like how rude you want to be, too 21:09 -!- Kontroller has joined #hardfought 21:10 under some circumstances it's considered rude to directly refer to someone by name in Japanese, kind of like how in English speaking countries it's generally rude to point at people 21:10 [hdf-us] [un] Delraven (Cav Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed +2 athame", on T:36674 21:10 one of the first novels was written in Japanese and there's legit debate over how many characters are in it because they're only rarely referenced by name 21:13 -!- Kontroll1r has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:21 <[Demo]> "Whispering crystals coalesce into the memories of Muninn!" heh nice one cosmos 21:24 [hdf-us] [nd] Menche (Sam Hum Mal Law), 65 points, T:415, killed by a black pudding 21:25 pets only get in the way >_> 21:28 You stop. Your large cat is in the way! 21:31 I just found out that the Pandora mobile app has an alarm clock function 21:31 Let's see if blasting heavy metal at high noon is enough to wake me up 21:42 :) 22:00 crawldragon: I read a translation that preserved the indirect reference of the original - quite an experience 22:04 nice 22:15 -!- greqrg has quit [Quit: Disconnected] 22:28 [hdf-us] [nh4] K2 (k2) (Arc Hum Mal Law), 29570 points, T:2813, killed by a giant bat 22:31 [hdf-us] [nh4] K2 (k2) (Arc Hum Mal Law), 6454 points, T:288, killed by a jackal 22:36 FIQHack YASI (based on a comment by Muad to https://alt.org/nethack/dudley/?172): intelligent monsters can untame your domestic pets by throwing food at them 22:39 [hdf-us] [nd] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:40637 22:44 [hdf-us] [nd] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed Juiblex, on T:40829 22:49 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 22:52 [hdf-us] [nd] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed the invisible Baalzebub, on T:41162 22:59 [hdf-us] [nh4] K2 (k2) (Arc Hum Mal Law), 38644 points, T:3457, killed by a blue jelly 23:24 -!- jonadab has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:24 -!- jonadab has joined #hardfought 23:24 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v jonadab] by ChanServ 23:44 FIQ: [backscroll] can't you just make seduction attacks have no effect with certain (most) monsters? 23:46 wellll if it only affected @ & K and some h that would be a start 23:46 <@luxidream> I just noticed, but don't foocubi already steal things from enemies 23:48 ais523: [backscroll] I still don't like the idea that the player "has" to grind up to level 12, or that a standard game necessarily involves clearing the Valley before being able to start the Quest 23:50 (well, not necessarily, but on pain of more grinding) 23:51 @luxidream foocubi don't steal, they only remove armor. 23:51 and saddles 23:51 <@luxidream> I saw an incubus stealing a potion of full healing under conflict today on the priest quest 23:52 <@luxidream> let me see if I can find it 23:54 aos: There are other ways, e.g., you can lure a couple of the wraiths from the graveyard on quest home out through the portal. 23:55 Or use gain level potions; personally I prefer to save those for alchemy, but the option is there. 23:55 aos: I see visiting the Valley as one guaranteed route to do the quest unlock, there are others, e.g. revgeno, !oGL 23:56 it's important to have a guaranteed route but it might not be the majority option 23:56 I usually don't go to the Valley pre-quest unless playing a role with a useless quest artifact. 23:57 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/401238103790190592/poorly_cropped_screencap.png 23:59 <@luxidream> do they just act like nymphs? or is it different 23:59 -!- Grasshopper_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:59 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:59 -!- Grasshopper_ has joined #hardfought 23:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper_] by ChanServ