00:04 [hdf-us] [nd] bouquet (Kni Hum Fem Law), 3202 points, T:4736, killed by an elf mummy 00:05 -!- hpardis has joined #hardfought 00:06 [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Cav Hum Mal Law) killed Pestilence, on T:48353 00:08 -!- oh6_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:09 hah 00:10 [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Cav Hum Mal Law) wished for "5000 gold pieces", on T:48400 00:11 [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Cav Hum Mal Law), 1568418 points, T:48409, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/un531/dumplog/1515167263.un531.txt.html 00:11 woo, congrats! 00:11 thanks! 00:30 nice! a a very well formatted dumplog, too 00:50 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:56 oh yeah the html dumplogs in unnethack are beautiful. 00:57 congrats K2 :) 01:08 <@mtf> grats k2 😄 01:16 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 01:18 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 01:22 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Colonel Upgrade] 01:30 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:30 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 01:34 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 01:35 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 01:36 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 01:42 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:46 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:46 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 01:52 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 02:06 . 02:06 LarienTelrunya: Message from aosdict at 2018-01-09 20:00 EST: you should make "undefined" a playable role and race 02:06 !tell aosdict there is a race named "undefined" in slex already!!! 02:06 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:26 -!- hpardis has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:35 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 02:45 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 02:45 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 02:57 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 02:57 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 03:19 -!- firemonkey has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 03:26 <@Generic Username> Henlo o 04:15 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:17 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:56 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 05:56 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 05:56 -!- raisse has quit [Client Quit] 06:15 [hdf-us] [gh] arnibald (Pri Hum Mal Neu) had mace bestowed upon him by Ishtar, on T:18155 06:25 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 06:25 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 06:35 -!- firemonkey has joined #hardfought 07:08 bhaak: I have a junethack question even though it's still several months until then. The achievements that give trophies are recorded in bitfields, and those bitfields are converted into a value in topten.c, but I'm fairly sure that value is a 32-bit INT, meaning that it can only hold 32 achievements. If, theoretically, a variant had more than 32 achievements (I wonder which one could do that...), would making a second su 07:09 LarienTelrunya: the sooner, the better 07:09 if you don't worry about save file compatibility, you can use a 64 bit wide datatype 07:10 well, I'm also playing slex locally on a 32-bit windows system, so I guess it would break things on that one 07:10 for junethack, it's not an issue. ruby has bigdecimal support :) 07:10 currently topten.c does this: (void)fprintf(rfile, XLOG_SEP "achieve=0x%lx", encodeachieve()); 07:11 i.e. it adds an "achieve" field to the xlogfile, and now my idea is that if I have 33+ achievements I'll introduce an extra "achieve2" field that has the remaining ones, would that be okay? 07:12 yes 07:12 and another thing I'm worried about is that slex might have too many achievements relative to the other variants; the reason there will be so many is that the game length will also be increased greatly, i.e. actually getting those achievements will take quite a long time 07:13 a bunch of them will be awarded for completing some new dungeon branches that I'm planning to add 07:13 here's hoping I'll even be able to finish everything until June :D 07:14 I'm planning on changing the display of the achievements to cut down on the visual spam we already have 07:15 for example, only show achievements for games you have already played 07:15 ah, so if you never played slex, you don't get greyed-out icons of the slex achievements, and similar for other variants? like the existing feature that only shows competition trophies if you ascended at least once? 07:16 yes 07:23 aosdict: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-01-10 02:06 EST: there is a race named "undefined" in slex already!!! 07:24 [hdf-us] [nd] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed fixed +2 boots of water walking", on T:32428 07:31 [hdf-us] [nd] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed +2 helm of telepathy", on T:32452 07:31 [hdf-us] [nd] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:32453 07:36 ouch 08:00 [hdf-us] [nh] pavelek (Val Hum Fem Law), 43282 points, T:7345, killed by a gremlin, while frozen by a potion 08:06 morning world 08:07 * K2 waves 08:07 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: gotta use my McDonalds rebate vouchers ;)] 08:07 LarienTelrunya, historically, NH343 variants lack save and bones compatibility. 08:07 Goddamn it 08:07 * NCommander just finished reading the backscroll and poof 08:09 happened to me a few times 08:21 -!- irina|log has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44 -!- irina|log has joined #hardfought 08:44 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v irina|log] by ChanServ 08:52 hi 08:52 Hello FIQ, Welcome to #hardfought 08:57 hi 08:57 Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought 08:57 !who 08:57 FIQ: [hdf-us] krm26 [nd] 08:57 FIQ: [hdf-eu] elenmirie [nd] 08:57 nht: what happened? 08:59 ,o0(SOMEBODY SET UP US THE BOMB) 08:59 oh I see 08:59 polycontrol failed 3 times in a row 09:02 two throne wishes from the same throne 09:02 nice 09:03 happened to me once, but only once I think 09:03 Yeah, I got nothing but a puff of logic so many times, I eventually stopped bothering to #sit on them at all. 09:04 heh 09:04 I tell myself "I'm going to wait until I'm sure my luck is good", and then I never bother to go back. 09:05 zero luck is enough for a wish 09:05 puff of logic is 1/3 regardless 09:07 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 09:22 Yeah, I theoretically know that. 09:23 not using thrones is a mistake 09:24 unless you're afraid of the electric shock, or have no unihorn for some reason 09:24 I know using them is theoretically a net win. 09:25 Like I said, I always tell myself, "Ooh, throne, I should come back to this later." 09:25 I just never bother. 09:25 why later? 09:25 why not now? 09:25 Dunno. 09:25 all the actual bad things it does is trivially fixable with an unihorn 09:25 Sure. 09:25 I know how to use them safely. I used to do it. 09:26 At some point I just quit bothering. 09:26 I tell myself I should use them, and my self goes "Eh, it'll just vanish in a puff of logic anyway, maybe I'll get around to it later." 09:27 it's not like sitting on them is hard work 09:27 I don't get the issue 09:27 i dont mess with thrones unless i have a unihorn 09:27 or if i'm feeling frisky 09:27 yeah as I said 09:27 as long as you have an unihorn 09:27 it's all good 09:28 and remember to remove any worn rings 09:28 And drop your bag, yes. 09:28 why 09:28 ? 09:30 Actually, I've never bothered to take off rings, and never lost one to a throne shock. 09:30 why drop your bag? 09:30 So it doesn't get cursed. 09:31 jonadab: it's coming ;) 09:31 you walk around with negative luck? 09:31 Not knowingly. 09:31 you only get the curse effect with negative luck 09:31 I think it also happens at zero. 09:31 no 09:31 it doesn't 09:33 if (Luck > 0) { make_blinded(Blinded + rn1(100, 250), TRUE); } else rndcurse(); 09:34 hm 09:34 never gotten cursed from a throne 09:34 3.6 also has a change_luck() in there. 09:34 IN the blinded case. 09:35 Not sure whether 3.6 added that or Fourk removed it. 09:35 I don't understand 09:35 why have I never been cursed by a throne 09:35 ever 09:35 if 0 luck still does it 09:35 The standard deviation is high. 09:35 On all the throne effects. 09:36 Because there's a bunch of them to pick from. 09:36 But also, maybe you usually have positive luck? 09:36 but I've played nethack for years... 09:36 (That'd be weird, though; most players usually have either 0 or 13 luck.) 09:36 or 3 09:37 Ok, yes, or 3. 09:37 Or small negative integers in Sokoban. 09:37 Unfortunately, nothing happens 09:37 has hit me once in soko 09:37 that was fun 09:37 Ouch. 09:37 especially since the wand was 0:1 09:38 So then you had to find charging some other way. 09:38 Yeah. 09:38 <@wheals> i feel like i rarely see thrones before i grab the luckstone 09:38 YASI: add a throne to one of the Sokoban prize levels. 09:39 @wheals That would make sense if you normally do Mines first. 09:39 i do 09:39 *I do 09:39 I usually do Sokoban first, then Minetown, then the main dungeon down to about quest depth or so, then Mine's End... 09:40 Though it somewhat depends on role and circumstances. 09:40 jonadab: if you gain level up 09:40 should it be possible to end up in a branch? 09:42 ugh. I went to all the trouble of defining this door trap function on players and now have to deal with monsters triggering them 09:42 always make new functions handle monsters too 09:42 don't make new cases of duplicated functions 09:43 even vanilla abides by this to some extent 09:43 well, the function is basically a set of if statements defining effects for each trap (because switch can just go away) 09:43 switch is cleaner 09:43 imo 09:44 defining it on monsters would in most cases require each if block to be split into two smaller ifs 09:44 FIQ: I don't like having to break explicitly or risk bugs. 09:44 gcc has a fallthrough warning 09:44 use it 09:44 when you factor in breaks, switch actually takes more lines than if..else if as well 09:45 still cleaner IMO 09:46 also lets you use more complicated logic than a jump table can provide 09:46 yes if you need that don't use switch 09:46 I thought that was obvious 09:47 well the vanilla code tends to like having switch in cases where it really needs more complex logic 09:48 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:49 @mtf is biskup still on his vacation 09:49 do monsters interact with doors in any way besides opening them and digging/eating through them? 09:51 ugh, now have to deal with the monster possibly being killed 09:51 oh, monsters can also "smash down" doors 09:51 DEADMONSTER() 09:52 Probably not, but kicking them down or zapping Striking at them would be an interesting Addition 09:52 aosdict: also both dogmove and monmove 09:52 Ah, they already can 09:52 Ok 09:52 FIQ: don't actually see any monster triggering traps in dogmove. 09:52 doors 09:53 unless dogmove calls the same function in monmove that already handles door traps 09:54 hm I wonder since there are now traps that deal damage but don't destroy the door, if monsters will repeatedly try to open a door and eventually die from it. 09:55 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o FIQ] by ChanServ 09:55 -!- mode/#hardfought [-v Announcy] by ChanServ 09:56 monster door movement will open the door and then immediately move over it 09:56 with no further checks 09:56 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Announcy] by K2 09:57 -!- mode/#hardfought [-v Announcy] by ChanServ 09:57 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Announcy] by K2 09:57 rofl 10:02 FIQ: I think I also need to change monmove so that the monster does the thing they're trying to do with the door, and then triggers the trap 10:02 or else implement before/after traps 10:02 which would be more code but also more robust 10:03 DO monsters ever close doors? 10:04 i've never seen them do it 10:04 Probably not 10:04 open yeah. and in gh they'll loot chests and bags too 10:04 but never close 10:05 Maybe Spellcasters should even sometimes know Wizard-Lock 10:05 that would be neat - scared monster running away from you closes/locks doors to slow you down 10:05 *nod* 10:05 or to trap you if you're running 10:06 jonadab: no 10:10 YanI: Casting Wizard-Lock by high-level Spellcasters can crush and destroy small Monsters like Ants 10:13 <@mtf> FIQ: (before I leave for work) no I don't think so, but he appears to be focusing at least for a little bit on his new sequel, Ultimate ADOM (supposedly going to be available on every device imaginable) 10:17 He's been developing long enough, he theoretically ought to know how to do "every device imaginable". 10:19 Hmm, now that I say that, the roguelike world could do with a VM that is for roguelikes what the Z-machine is for Zork. 10:23 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 109 points, T:384, burned by molten lava 10:23 -!- Menche_ has joined #hardfought 10:25 Yeah I think before/after traps is the way to go 10:25 EPI: a door can have more than one kind of trap on it, and if you mess with the door, they all trigger in succession. 10:26 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:28 FIQ: so with before/after traps, I now need more complicated logic than a switch statement, and it's easy to add rather than have to refactor it 10:28 :) 10:32 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 242 points, T:620, killed by a gnome 10:32 why before/after? 10:33 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 126 points, T:144, killed by a grid bug 10:33 some traps ought to trigger before you take the action with the door, and some after. 10:33 like a static shock should happen when you touch the door 10:33 not "The door opens. An electric spark zaps you!" 10:34 do an open_door() function? 10:34 which returns what happene 10:34 d 10:35 say, 0 if nothing happened, 1 if trapped but open, 2 if died 10:35 or similar 10:50 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 11:02 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 11:08 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 11:12 NCommander: I'm back now; what did you mean with "nh343 variants lack save and bone compatibility"? 11:12 LarienTelrunya, they don't work across differently compiled versions. You can't use a NH343 save/bones with different versions of NetHack. i.e., a OSX bones file won't load on Windows. 11:13 <@mtf> I made it to work 11:13 <@mtf> took me an hour 11:13 Hearse has an entire compatibility matrix on what works with what, due to different endian ordering, bitsizing, etc. 11:13 mtf: it can be made to work, but unless you patch your variant to make it work, it won't :) 11:14 oh, and I guess in nh4 variants it works? 11:14 also how come discord names are colored now? they weren't when I was in my office 11:14 LarienTelrunya, Nh4 essentially implements an actual save format combined with a replay log. NH34/36 is essentially a memory dump to disk. 11:15 That's why NH4 can wind back time if it hits an impossible/panic and just doesn't go "welp" and explode like vanilla. 11:16 If you standardize all the internal types to fixed lengths (i.e, uint16_t), you get defacto compatibility across platforms when endianess is not a factor 11:16 heh, vanilla doesn't explode when it hits an impossible, and panics usually leave behind a .e emergency save that can just be renamed for recovery ;) 11:17 LarienTelrunya, well impossible is essentially jurt an assert, not the dungeon disappearing in a pile of smoke, so you can ignore them though its not always a good idea to do so. 11:17 yeah 11:18 LarienTelrunya, the recovery save (which is dodgy) basically writes out what it knows and then is reloaded. If the dungeon state is completely foobared, you loose your game. NH4 conversely cna simply unwind time back to the point the dungeon make consistent sense. 11:19 NH4 has a save backup from basically every turn 11:19 (there are exceptions for boring turns like turns in the middle of a 20s command) 11:19 ais523, I thought it made a save at the start of each level, then an action log up until you go up/down again. 11:19 anyway, I'm going to reboot my system, I'll be back soonish 11:19 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: rebooting] 11:19 or was that how Nitro/Acehack did it and then changed? 11:24 jonadab: wtf? why does your creek town version have solid walls all the way from south to north, essentially separating the level into two parts?! 11:25 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 11:25 back 11:26 NCommander: the action log is there but the saves are made at "neutral turnstate", not each level 11:26 that doesn't use up that much extra space because we store them with heavy compression, including with diffs 11:27 ais523, ah, fair enough. I haven't really dug into NH4's guts. I know the original save system was essentially a reply of the entire action commands with a pre-seeded RNG and that ran into problems. 11:27 fiqhack's replaymode uses the actionlog to split up diffs into each seperate action 11:27 so you can replay single turns of multi-turn actions 11:28 * NCommander is waiting for FIQHack to become Dwarf Fortress in terms of AI complexity 11:28 "Medusa cancels Attack Player: Too horrorified" 11:28 it actually uses the action log for more than this, mostly because NH4 diffs become very slow latergame 11:33 <@mtf> NCommander: LOL no man I meant I made my drive to work 11:33 <@mtf> and it took me an hour to get here 11:33 <@mtf> hahaha 11:45 LarienTelrunya: It was designed that way by L. That's why it has quantum mechanics in it. 11:46 LarienTelrunya: Fourk also recently added teleport traps. 11:46 wtf? really? slex has creek town too but I've never encountered such a wall there 11:46 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 7262 points, T:7439, killed by a blast of frost 11:49 LarienTelrunya: The original version is here: http://l.j-factor.com/nethack/terrain.diff 11:49 The map's in three parts, but when they get put together, yes, there's a solid wall there. 11:50 There's no comment explaining why the quantum mechanics are there, but that's why. 11:54 Somehow I don't believe that. I'm trying to get creektown to spawn in slex's wizmode now. 11:56 I should add a wizmode flag for controlling what special level is generated 12:01 ais523: reading this dungeon initialization, wizmode should probably keep doing the non-wizmode randomness checks, but ignore them whenever applicable 12:02 alright, finally: jonadab: https://abload.de/img/creektownops32.png - I have no clue where you got that wall from (the square I'm standing on inexplicably has a wall in your version) 12:02 either that, or prompt on game init if it should use wizmode or non-wizmode generation 12:03 -!- callforjudgement has joined #hardfought 12:03 IMO wizmode shouldn't do anything different wrt dungeon generation 12:03 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:03 -!- callforjudgement is now known as ais523 12:03 this is by using creektown as-is, btw, i.e. without trying to put the three MAP segments together 12:03 ‎<‎ais523‎>‎ and some other method should be provided for testing specific levels in wizmode 12:03 it does atm 12:03 ‎<‎ais523‎>‎ e.g. a bruteforcer that finds seeds that will load every level you care about 12:03 somehow I managed to see my own message that was sent before the /reconnect 12:04 so I knew exactly where I got cut off 12:04 ais523: why shouldn't it be possible to prompt in wizmode what special level to generate if an option akin to monpolycontrol is set? 12:04 upon entryt 12:04 *entry 12:05 FIQ: I thought special level variants had already been determined by that point 12:05 maybe not 12:05 I guess we could determine them lazily 12:06 ais523: oh, I wonder if that's why jonadab was having issues in some existing 4k games when he added special levels 12:06 "Cann't find garden.des -- making a maze" or simething like that 12:06 *Can't 12:06 *something 12:16 [hdf-us] [un] Luxidream (Pri Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed greased +2 shield of reflection", on T:2027 12:32 LarienTelrunya: Hmm. That... isn't how it worked in Fourk, when I used the .des file as-is from L. 12:33 When I converted it to one-piece, it was to fix other, unrelated bugs. 12:33 yeah but you somehow introduced walls where there are none 12:33 (Which happen if ROWNO and COLNO are not the defaults.) 12:34 in http://l.j-factor.com/nethack/terrain.diff I'm at the leftmost end of the "The Creek" section 12:34 FIQ: I have no idea what caused that because I've never been able to reproduce it. 12:35 LarienTelrunya: I don't know, then. Some difference in how left,bottom lines up against center,center, between NH4 and Slash'EM? 12:35 aren't L's patches originally intended for SLASH'EM anyway? 12:36 I thought they were for 3.4.3? 12:36 (Which we're both rather significantly diverged from, albeit in different directions.) 12:37 at 32,14, and also at 32,3 and 32,4, you somehow have vertical walls which I don't see in any of the sections of the L patch 12:37 In any case, I've now added teleport traps, so if the player kills the quantum mechanics, they can still get across without digging. 12:38 Though the right side isn't guaranteed to have one of the (the left is). 12:41 LarienTelrunya: you should incorporate L's monster ring use patch 12:41 and the steed thing 12:42 actually no that wasn't L I think 12:42 but NetHack brass 12:42 uhh... monster ring use sounds like something that you'd implement in FIQhack :D 12:42 LarienTelrunya: You should incorporate _all_ the L patches. 12:42 jonadab: and that would make you play slex more often? 12:42 Well, no. 12:43 it might surprise you, but slex doesn't simply apply any patch that will run; I actually pick the ones I want in the game 12:45 LarienTelrunya: already done 12:46 figures :D 12:46 some of the logic was based off L 12:46 but it's mostly original code 12:48 FIQ: Wait, have you done monster steeds? 12:48 I thought you hadn't yet, last I knew. 12:49 no 12:49 I haven't 12:49 NetHack brass has it 12:49 NetHack brass has some cool stuff 12:49 So all you have to do is port it :-) 12:49 I want to try it out 12:49 a speed 24 Pestilence that is guaranteed to stunlock you is most probably lots of fun :P 12:49 too bad there's no server for it 12:49 Indeed. 12:49 K2: NetHack Brass on Hardfought when? 12:49 I asked K2 once 12:50 Actually, I can think of good reasons why he wouldn't host it. 12:50 jonadab: NetHack brass is also where grunthack's object materials originated 12:50 Mostly having to do with how distantly removed it is from anything currently maintained or anyone we have contact with. 12:50 jonadab: So like grunthack? :) 12:50 Yeah, but K2 particularly likes GruntHack, for some reason. 12:51 grunthack is cool 12:51 GruntHack is scary. 12:51 hey you almost beat it 12:51 I mean, yes, I played it enough to get deep into Gehennom. 12:51 But still. 12:51 that's more than you have done for dnh 12:51 or fiqhack 12:51 or 4k 12:51 [hdf-us] [un] Luxidream (Pri Hum Mal Law), 10824 points, T:4949, quit 12:51 or slex :P 12:51 I think I've actually put more time into fh than GruntHack. 12:52 LarienTelrunya: _nobody_ manages that in slex. 12:52 jonadab: but you haven't gotten as far 12:52 is what I'm saying 12:52 LarienTelrunya: Present company excepted. 12:52 jonadab: ziratha has a savegame in Sheol (Gehennom sub branch) on esm right now, he just somehow disappeared, but I hope he comes back and ascends it ;) 12:52 FIQ: Part of it is because I knew Grunt's reputation, so I deliberately picked an easy role. 12:53 LarienTelrunya: If Tariru can't streak it, it's not a real NetHack variant :-) 12:53 Tariru has like a 75% winrate in dnh 12:54 did he even try? maybe he could streak it if he did :D 12:57 note to self: a caveman can't read spellbooks, don't even bother 12:58 <@luxidream> not every role is wizard FIQ 12:58 :( 12:58 jonadab: one of your perlscript generated trainwreck monsters spawned in my current slex game, a "conjoined germinated", which is speed 14 and has a lethe melee attack that can turn the player's magical items into mundane ones, e.g. bags of holding become sacks :) 12:59 cavemen get crazy hp boosts 12:59 on level up 13:01 Evil Patch Idea: each dungeon level has different theme music that plays in a continuous loop while you're on the level. All of it is polka versions of top-40s music. 13:01 jonadab: haha, you really love polka music for some reason, it seems 13:01 Except in Gehennom, where it's all country and western. 13:01 EPI: and the lyrics are all about tractors, trucks with big tires, etc. 13:07 [hdf-us] [un] Luxidream (Rog Orc Fem Cha), 1271 points, T:1469, killed by a gnome 13:07 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 3484 points, T:2918, killed by a hill orc 13:09 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 66 points, T:286, killed by a jackal 13:09 apparently I am not allowed to have a starting pet 13:09 2nd time in a row it dies right away :P 13:12 Is it something like Brogue allies, where "You have developed a telepathic bond with your Ogre" is the game's way of telling you that your ogre is about to die horribly? 13:12 loves me some grunthack 13:12 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:18 * jonadab should try to get a local build of Brass at some point, just to see what all the fuss is about. 13:18 i should as well 13:19 when was the last update to Brass? 13:19 Long time ago. 13:19 years and years ago i imagine 13:19 Yes. 13:19 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:19 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 13:25 <@wheals> almost a decade apparently 13:25 <@wheals> back in december 2008 13:28 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) received advice from The Oracle, on T:2702 13:55 [hdf-us] [dyn] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 4542 points, T:6046, killed by an ape 13:56 FIQ: I don't really want an open_door() function because there are lots of ways to interact with doors and the code surrounding them is different enough to not make a function worth it 14:01 <@mtf> The following artifacts could not be resolved: bss.brm.js:js:jar:1.1, bss.brm.util:api:jar:1.0, bss.brm.util:util:jar:1.0, bss.brm.payment:payment:jar:1.0, bss.brm.framework:framework:jar:1.0, javax.sql:jdbc-stdext:jar:2.0: Failure to find bss.brm.js:js:jar:1.1 14:01 <@mtf> you know what's fun 14:01 yes 14:01 <@mtf> updating dependencies across a massive workspace because you don't have access to the original repo 14:01 oh 14:02 i thought you were going to say throwing a bachelor party in two ajoining hotel rooms, having a dozen strippers sho wup and everyone get arrested and spend the night in jail 14:02 <@mtf> huh, you got all that from my jar list eh? 😛 14:02 its embedded in my genetic makeup 14:03 <@mtf> btw that's gonna be me in like 2 months 14:03 <@mtf> my buddy is throwing his bachelor party in vegas 14:03 keep a lawyer on speed dial 14:05 <@mtf> a few of them are lawyers 14:05 <@mtf> does that count 14:07 what happens in vegas stays in the interwebs 14:07 forever 14:09 <@mtf> last time I went we got bottle service in some nice club in caesar's palace 14:10 <@mtf> bouncer kept bringing us girls all night 14:15 heh 14:20 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:22 FIQ: I will probably also end up making monsters able to only do one of [unlock, open, move] per turn. 14:22 Don't think there are any monsters for whom it matters that they can unlock-move in one action. 14:23 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:26 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 14:26 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 14:30 aosdict: I did that a while back in fiqhack 14:31 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 14:32 aosdict: Sounds reasonable to me. The list of monsters that can do special things with doors is long enough as it is. 14:34 jonadab: Well, most of the special things they do with doors tends towards ignoring the door, like flowing under it or passing through it. 14:39 <@rikersan> apparently the bash screen command gives you nethack references? 14:39 <@rikersan> bash-3.2$ screen -d You may wish for a screen, what do you want? 14:41 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 14:43 rikersan: it even has "Suddenly the dungeon collapses!" :D 14:47 <@rikersan> wait, screen does? 14:47 <@rikersan> TIL 14:47 @rikersan I think it has a nethack mode that does that 14:47 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=512299 14:49 aosdict: Or breaking it? 14:50 I think casting spells at doors is limited to FIQHack, though. 14:50 screen has several nethack-like messages provided the nethack option was used at compile time 14:50 @rikersan Yes, screen has several NetHack references. 14:51 <@rikersan> again, TIL 14:51 <@rikersan> I didn't use the nethack option but maybe having installed nethack is good enough 14:52 <@rikersan> ah, bug report says that some msgs are there regardless of nethack mode 14:52 I think most distros ship screen with the option enabled. 14:52 i have never seen one that didn't 14:52 Perhaps it is on by default? 14:52 btw rikersan (I can't tell you this in the other channel since you're not there :D), you said something about me possibly liking bugs? Well, my char currently has bow skill at master and missile weapons skill at expert, so yeah, I'm using bows a lot. Especially since I'm polymorphed into a form with no melee weapon attack. :) 14:52 Dunno. 14:53 I don't remember if I've ever compiled screen from source (other than automatically using something like ports or portage). 14:53 <@rikersan> liking bows Larien but yeah 14:53 also, is there a way to see which discord users are currently connected to the channel, so you don't send messages into nirvana when trying to address someone who's not there? 14:53 <@rikersan> likely not 14:53 <@rikersan> since this server has close to 1k people in it, all techinically "in the channel" 14:54 oh :D 14:54 Does Discord not have an equivalent of /away ? 14:54 and yeah I meant liking bows 14:54 hell i cant even tell who all is in #nethack-hardfought on the discord side 14:54 <@rikersan> hm, do edits come through the discord bot? 14:54 <@rikersan> if I edit a message over here 14:54 <@rikersan> jonadab: no it does not 14:54 Don't think so. 14:54 I don't believe IRC supports editing things once sent. 14:55 <@rikersan> you can set online/away/invis though 14:55 <@rikersan> jonadab: it could resend an edited version 14:55 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:55 Though I suppose the bot could automatically construct a s/foo/bar/; comment. 14:55 <@rikersan> jonadab: setting away doesn't remove you from the "online" pile thouhg 14:55 <@rikersan> for wahtever reason 14:55 so how does one tell how many ppl are in a discord sub channel? 14:55 jonadab: discord has public logging and backlog 14:55 so even if they're not there, they'll see the message once they're back 14:55 FIQ: That's true of away users in IRC as well, but it's still useful to be able to see if they're away atm. 14:56 <@rikersan> ircbot: you can't 14:56 <@rikersan> you're in "servers", which have "channels" 14:56 <@rikersan> er 14:56 <@rikersan> k2: you an't 14:56 [hdf-us] [nh4] 2.71828182 (Luxidream) (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 68203 points, T:18945, killed by a jaguar, while frozen by a spellbook 14:56 <@rikersan> you're in an entire server, including all its channels 14:56 @rikersan that's... a shortcoming 14:56 technically you can mute and hide channels 14:56 That would get RATHER cumbersome in IRC. 14:57 but you're still in them 14:57 How many channels does freenode even have? Do they even keep stats on that? 14:57 do /lusers 14:57 I bet it's at least five digits. 14:57 Maybe six. 14:57 19:57:28 freenode ℹ │ 49485 :channels formed 14:57 [01:05] There are 119 users and 86692 invisible on 34 servers 14:57 [01:05] 32 IRC Operators online 14:57 [01:05] 47490 channels formed 14:57 [01:05] I have 4492 clients and 1 servers 14:58 from the last time my znc connected 14:59 Hmm, that 119 users number is very strange. 14:59 I assume the 86692 is the actual number of users? 15:01 yeah that is odd 15:02 that means 119 users that haven't set usermode +i 15:02 Ah. And presumably most clients set that automatically on connect? 15:02 meaning you don't need to be in a channel with the user to /who them 15:02 I think freenode itself does 15:02 Ah. 15:03 Ok, so the 119 is probably mostly services accounts and such. 15:03 -!- ThatBenGuy has joined #hardfought 15:04 hm 15:05 I wonder what the difference between flags and access is 15:05 for chanserv 15:07 -!- Menche_ is now known as menche 15:07 -!- menche is now known as Menche 15:07 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 15:12 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 15:21 [hdf-us] [un] Delraven (Cav Hum Mal Law) killed Durin's Bane, on T:34010 15:30 <@rikersan> k2: as a belated comparison, discord has 90M global user accounts 15:30 <@rikersan> so discord is a heck of a lot bigger than freenode 15:30 <@rikersan> dunno about othr irc servers 15:31 Freenode is the biggest IRC network still around 15:31 s/still // 15:31 <[Demo]> rizon is still cool though 15:31 ah 15:31 90 million 15:31 thats not bad i guess 15:31 :D 15:36 <@rikersan> other fun thing about discord is the ability to name yourself whatever >_> 15:36 <@rikersan> apparently this roguelikes server has somebody named a peach emoji 15:37 including sharing the name with someone else 15:37 which is dumb 15:37 <@rikersan> no it allows for some !fun! times 15:37 <@rikersan> fiq: discord accts have an unchangable username which they ping with though 15:38 <@rikersan> even if I change my server nick my username is the same (I think IRC works teh same) 15:39 i like discord, i think its good another public chat system is in play 15:39 but i love my irc 15:39 <@rikersan> k2: you haven't even used the main feature of discord though :p 15:39 <@rikersan> VoIP 15:40 why would i need to? its not like we're playing counterstrike or call of duty (which have their own built in voice comms anyways) 15:40 although it would be cool to hear FIQ's accent... 15:40 <@rikersan> lol 15:40 :P 15:41 <@rikersan> you wouldn't need but that's really the point of discord 15:41 <@rikersan> and i dunno about cs and cod but tf2's voice chat system is absolute shit 15:41 discord - for the things you dont need but they're here anyways 15:41 <@rikersan> but somehow still no collapsible channel list 15:41 really? after all this time 15:42 when i ran a tf2 server, i had a ventrillo service running also 15:43 <@wheals> calling VOIP the main feature of discord is what made me assume it would be useless for a couple months after i first heard of it 15:43 <@rikersan> I've used discord n a couple other voice chats for tf2 k2 15:43 <@Tone> Discord voice tends to be much better than what's included in most games 15:43 <@rikersan> but yeah builtin chats for games are almost always hist 15:44 well... its been since 2008 that I hosted tf2 or any fps for that matter 15:44 i'm a lil behind the times :P 15:44 <@Tone> I played a lot of nethack on hardfought with my clan mates over voice chat during devnull 😄 15:45 i should find my headphone/mic set and jump on VoIP/discord 15:45 scare all you fuckers 15:45 <@rikersan> k2 you have to join voice chat channels :p 15:45 <@rikersan> otherwise people can't hear you 15:45 <@rikersan> and I'm fairly certain this server has text to speak turned off because it's super annoying 15:45 but i'm yelling right now 15:45 why cant you hear me 15:45 :D 15:46 [hdf-us] [nd] munterplant (Val Hum Fem Law), 7083 points, T:3747, killed by a boiling potion 15:46 @wheals same 15:46 @Tone hah yeah I could see that 15:46 I stayed far away from discord for this reason 15:46 I still don't like it, but I don't avoid it like the plague anymore 15:46 <@wheals> come to think of it, i've never seen the voice chats on this server used, ever 15:46 i'm trying to imagine teamsplat all in a VoIP chat channel during junethack 15:47 <@rikersan> dewit 15:50 <@mtf> @wheals we have used them for a few things, but it definitely seems like most roguelike players would rather chat over text than voice 😛 15:50 <@mtf> k2: We had a bunch of us in VOIP chat for the order of the cockatrice during devnull 15:50 i'd give VoIP a spin again 15:51 i've never been adverse to it, but it has its place 15:51 <@rikersan> #hardfought cs/tf2 game? :D 15:51 man 15:51 if you only knew 15:51 <@rikersan> heck if hdf was still a tf2 server I'd probably hop on 15:52 i remember some EPIC smack talk on the cs:s and bf2 servers back in the day 15:52 <@mtf> I miss my roaming soldier days 15:52 <@rikersan> @mtf roamers cause cancer 15:52 <@mtf> only to those that deserve it 15:52 <@mtf> 😃 15:52 <@mtf> like slimy medics 15:52 <@rikersan> u wot m8 15:52 <@mtf> bruh I used to be real sneaky like, and had mean aim 15:53 <@mtf> was all about those juggles 15:53 <@rikersan> they made some changes to juggling n stuff 15:53 i should fire up a quake2 ctf port just for grins 15:53 <@rikersan> now you're no longer as frozen in air 15:53 <@mtf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmScwe34odk 15:53 <@mtf> one of my fav doubles 15:53 <@mtf> @rikersan I wouldn't say you were ever frozen 15:53 q2ctf was prob the most fun i ever had playing online FPS 15:53 <@rikersan> used to be pretty dang stuck in midair 15:54 it was all still fresh 15:54 <@rikersan> patched with the pyro airblast recently though 15:54 <@mtf> air strafing was def a thing back then 15:54 we're talking late 1990's 15:54 <@rikersan> now you can move easier iirc 15:54 <@mtf> if you were good you can maneuver quite well 15:54 <@mtf> could* 15:54 <@rikersan> ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 15:54 ah well 15:54 <@mtf> I'm just saying, I used to do a million jump maps 15:54 <@mtf> never had any issues with getting out of juggles when I did get popped 15:54 <@rikersan> //shrug 15:55 <@rikersan> I guess the main problem was really how dumb airblasts were but whatever 15:55 <@rikersan> I've never liked soldiers :p 15:55 <@rikersan> so I'm a tad biased 15:55 <@mtf> ok now airblasts 15:55 <@mtf> those definitely did paralyze you in air 15:55 <@mtf> those are not juggles >.> 15:55 <@rikersan> ^ 15:55 <@rikersan> lol 15:55 <@mtf> I'm talking about airshots w/ rockets bruh 15:55 <@rikersan> I know 15:55 <@mtf> 😛 15:55 <@rikersan> but the changes affect both :p 15:55 <@mtf> true 15:55 <@rikersan> hey on the bright side now you can get fucked over by every single pyro 15:56 <@mtf> ... yay 15:56 i am trying to imagine voip while playing nethack 15:56 <@rikersan> multiplayer nethack? 15:56 <[Demo]> mud nh 15:56 <@mtf> K2: It was pretty fun when some of us were watching @Tone 's extinction run 15:56 <@rikersan> hdf should really try a twitch plays nethack 15:56 well there's deucehack 15:56 we were discussing that last night 15:56 but it has issues 15:56 <@rikersan> what's that? 15:56 twitch plays nethack? 15:57 duecehack is co-op acehack 15:57 <@rikersan> no, deucehack 15:57 <@rikersan> huh 15:57 deucehack, right. that's what I said :) 15:57 <@rikersan> lol 15:57 There used to be a public server for it, but it went down some time ago. 15:57 <@rikersan> I'm not seeing it on google or smth 15:57 my spelling mistakes are legendary, fyi 15:58 <@rikersan> 2k: I se e: p 15:58 FYI, zapm is still live on hdf as an easter egg 15:58 deucehack is acehack multiplayer 15:58 isn't duece an alternate spelling of deuce? 15:58 <@rikersan> no 15:59 um yes it is 15:59 Not one I've ever seen in print. 15:59 depends who you ask i suppose 15:59 oh you were talking to LarienTelrunya 15:59 <@rikersan> TIL then 15:59 nvm then 15:59 heya LarienTelrunya 15:59 hi K2! 16:00 <@rikersan> @mtf I see that your name is "mondaytuesdayfriday", where'd that come from? 16:00 what version are we on for slex? 16:00 <@mtf> @rikersan my old WoW raiding schedule 16:00 WoW 16:00 i beta tested WoW 16:00 <@rikersan> LOL 16:00 never played it when it went live 16:00 see i always read that as mean time to failure 16:00 K2: still 2.1.1; I'm working on the next one (well not at the moment but I did commit a couple things the last days), but it's not ready yet. The expanded dungeon is lacking things that make it worth playing, I need to design new special levels for it! 16:00 anyone here ever play or remember Dark Age of Camelot? 16:01 now i'm disillusioned 16:01 i raided mauradon back when 40 man raids were cool 16:01 K2: I played daoc a lot 16:01 LarienTelrunya cool :P 16:01 K2: one of the best pvp mmorpg things ever 16:01 dtype I did too. as in religiously for a lil over a year 16:01 yup exactly 16:01 RvR baby 16:01 yep 16:01 still unmatched 16:02 i played midgard, dorf warrior types 16:02 [hdf-us] [nh4] tizakit (Sam Hum Mal Law), 47702 points, T:5643, quit 16:02 guin server 16:02 hardfought had a guild :P 16:02 i was a healer of some sort 16:02 [hdf-us] [nh4] tizakit (Kni Hum Mal Law), 5859 points, T:87, quit 16:02 human druid, iirc 16:02 <@rikersan> k2: so what has hdf hosted again? cs, cod, tf2, and now nethack? 16:02 you can still play on shard servers 16:02 <@rikersan> did it ever host any mmorpgs? 16:02 @rikersan: its a fairly long list 16:02 no 16:03 <@rikersan> *guids 16:03 dont have resources for that 16:03 <@rikersan> hm 16:03 nethack is taking all the cores 16:03 so lets see 16:03 probably 200 cores dedicated to nethack, right K2? ;) 16:03 started with quake2/3 16:03 then counterstrike 16:03 <@rikersan> dtype: all those pixels taking up all that space 16:03 then halo for pc 16:04 bf2 16:04 counterstrike: source 16:04 <@rikersan> it's been a while since I played quake 16:04 brief foray with castle woldenstein 16:04 *wolfenstein 16:04 i want one of those newly announced 65" nvidia monitors for nethack 16:04 call of duty 4 16:04 Don't forget to count ZAPM. 16:04 team fortress 2 16:04 crysis 16:04 (short lived that one) 16:05 <@rikersan> dtype: k2 was talking about his 4k monitor that does 80x24 fullscreen nethack 16:05 dtype: hahah YES 16:05 200 cores 16:05 <@rikersan> why short lived crysis? 16:05 <@rikersan> crysis was good 16:05 you could prob get away with three instances of FIQhack total 16:05 @rikersan: crysis server was shit 16:05 <[Demo]> how the hell do you store saves on the eu server? 16:06 [Demo] ? 16:06 <@rikersan> magic 16:06 In the cloud. 16:06 <[Demo]> is there enough space on a t.2 micro? 16:07 if you look back at the old news posts on hardfought, you can get a good idea of what all i've hosted over the years 16:07 [Demo] initially no 16:07 not for the ttyrecs 16:07 i bumped up the space on mine 16:07 went from 8GB to 60GB 16:07 and i compress the ttyrecs 16:07 <[Demo]> ah ok 16:08 before junethack starts i'll upgrade the t2.micro to a t2.medium 16:08 <@rikersan> !who 16:08 <[Demo]> thats gotta cost enough to be troublesome 16:08 <@rikersan> hm 16:08 K2: pls 16:08 @rikersan: not yet 16:08 <@rikersan> !who 16:08 I spent quite some time improving engine performance 16:08 <@rikersan> k2: no I was testing raw backspace chars 16:08 FIQ hah :P 16:08 ah 16:09 <@rikersan> to see if I could delete the <@rikersan> bit 16:09 I need to ask Tangles if beholder can be written to accept bot commands from the discord link 16:09 <@riker> . 16:09 <@rikersan> so the ircbot does nicks not usernames, hm 16:09 you need to delete the bit, we want to know that you're rikersan, not where you're coming from 16:09 <@rikersan> that's not helpful :p 16:10 <@rikersan> raisse: no I was just testing the !who 16:10 raisse: dont think that's possible 16:10 <@rikersan> everything would need to go 16:10 <@rikersan> leaving a plain "!who" 16:10 RLdiscord is a bot that links the discord roguelike community to here 16:10 I know 16:10 #nethack-hardfought on the discord side 16:11 ah ok 16:11 <@rikersan> who runs this instance of the bot? 16:11 <@rikersan> k2? 16:11 mtf 16:11 <@rikersan> kk 16:11 I left another channel because it got swamped with discord users who thought they ran the channel 16:11 (not a nethack channel) 16:11 that wont happen here 16:11 <@rikersan> @mtf should probably try to use usernames instead of server nicks, so discord people can have diff nicks 16:12 the main difficulties with bridges to other servers are a) moderation, and b) the UI issues 16:12 <@rikersan> since @riker isn't gonna ping me despite my nick being 'riker' 16:12 b) isn't fixable with a regular client 16:12 <[Demo]> is there any way to create lava in a regular game in vanilla? 16:12 <@mtf> @rikersan I get pinged perfectly by IRC pings 16:12 @rikersan: wait, what a bizarre design choice /that/ is 16:12 <@mtf> but my name is also easy 16:12 <@rikersan> yea 16:12 its like-minded people on both sides - playing nethack on hardfought or just in general 16:13 [Demo]: apart from the Invocation, I don't think so, unless you count digging down next to an existing lava square 16:13 <@riker> here, somebody test with pinging me as @riker 16:13 @riker: test 16:13 <@riker> huh I still get pinged 16:13 <[Demo]> i wanan create lava on the wizard tower and launch a pet in there to punch rodney 16:13 <@test now somebody?> test now? 16:13 on IRC, one of the fundamental rules is that nearly every client will always ping you on your own current nick 16:13 <@mtf> yes moderation was one of the key things I was worried about... After we talked about it for a bit I have no doubt that we won't have any issues here 16:13 also I refuse to ping a multiple-word nick :-P 16:13 <@test now somebody?> yeah, not how discord works afaik 16:13 <@fine-short> >_> 16:13 <@mtf> pretty sure you're wrong riker 16:14 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 16:14 <@mtf> you can always ping the current nick 16:14 <@fine-short> the pings are the format @rikersan#1275 16:14 <@mtf> but you don't have to type that out if there's no other match 16:14 @fine-short 16:14 <@fine-short> huh it does 16:14 <@mtf> now, if users have similar names, then it won't ping 16:14 there are some IRC servers which ban the concept of usernames 16:14 <@riker> then I'm just gonna stay riker on discord /shrug 16:15 there's no way to reserve a nick other than staying online indefinitely 16:15 I think that's the minority, though, the majority give you some way to reserve a name 16:15 <@riker> ais523: that's pretty bizarre, is there a reason? 16:15 e.g. if anyone else joins as "ais523" I can boot them off 16:15 @riker: mostly to stop people fighting over really desirable nicks, like common names 16:15 how do you know who is who if you can't have a username? 16:15 or at least to make the fights more relevant 16:15 <@mtf> except now you have people impersonating each other 16:15 <@mtf> lul 16:15 <@riker> ^ 16:15 <@mtf> that is a terrible solution 16:15 raisse: you can't, really 16:15 <@riker> ^ 16:15 this is presumably seen as not a problem 16:16 hm, I prefer to know that I'm talking to the same person as before even if I know them only by nick 16:16 hmm 16:16 -!- rikersan has quit [Client Quit] 16:16 <@riker> larientelrunya: still here though 16:16 rikersan: aww... but unfortunately you can't be in the other channel via discord :( 16:17 well, so far i like this 16:17 anyway, a bridge is clearly worse than the same thing 16:17 <[Demo]> yo i can cause im cool 16:17 its nice to be able to reach other users who play on the server but dont use irc 16:17 <@riker> [demo] can I has server invite 16:17 and I'm upset that Discord ever caught on, really, but I can't deny that it's popular and having a larger community is better if everyone in the community has the same standard of behaviour 16:17 <[Demo]> no my bot would kill you if it saw you 16:18 <@riker> why tho 16:18 i prefer IRC as well ais523 16:18 <[Demo]> kicks anyone that joins if that happens 16:18 set in our ways ;) 16:18 ais523: IRC doesn't inherently have any way to register/reserve a nick permanently, does it? I thought that was added later above the protocol level using services bots? 16:18 <[Demo]> and only forwards messages sent by me 16:18 <[Demo]> https://i.imgur.com/JTbcPMf.png 16:18 <@riker> [demo]: lol ok then 16:18 freenode allows permanent nick registration 16:18 <@riker> wtf is with your music notes [demp] 16:18 <@riker> [demo] 16:18 and if i disconenct for awhile and someone tries to use 'K2' I can ghost them when i connect again 16:19 <[Demo]> something breaks somewhere in the process 16:19 jonadab: technically speaking for username you're supposed to use your own username on an actual UNIX server system; IRC /can/ technically enforce that, just nobody does because hardly anyone goes to the trouble of verifying it 16:19 <@riker> > @11riker 16:19 jonadab: but there's no rule that nick and username have to match 16:19 so basically 99% of people use either temporary usernames or cloaks 16:19 ais523: Oh, that thing that shows up in /away 16:19 more than 99% I guess 16:19 Right. 16:19 Err, /whois I mean. 16:19 <@mtf> ais: upset that discord caught on? what's wrong with competition with IRC? I'd think that would lead to better innovation in chat systems altogether 16:19 right, first linne of /whois 16:19 @mtf: my main concern is that it's centralised 16:20 <@wheals> it must be misinterpreting the irc codes 16:20 there's nothing to stop people setting up IRC servers of their own by themselves, with whatever differences and changes they like 16:20 @mtf Discord isn't meaningful competition for IRC really, because the protocol is proprietary. 16:20 so in a way it has more room for innovation, it isn't stifled by the decisions of one company 16:20 <[Demo]> yeah discord is bad i hate it but until im at a point where i can have a nice steady server like k2 i can host all my stuff on im gonna continue using it 16:20 <@mtf> I can see how that'd be a concern for being anonymous, but I personally love the fact that it is centralized 16:20 <@mtf> my client settings are shared across every device I use 16:20 <@mtf> no managing anything 16:20 <@mtf> as are all my DM's 16:21 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 1003 points, T:1790, killed by a gnome 16:21 Anonymity isn't the issue. Being able to select a client that's to my liking is the issue. 16:21 <@mtf> jona: just because the protocol is proprietary doesn't change the fact that they do similar things in competition with each other 😛 16:21 I do wish the RLdiscord tag could be hidden because I find it very hard to see who is talking 16:21 <[Demo]> the owners of discord are bad guys 16:21 raisse: i asked about that 16:21 -!- ais523|telnet has joined #hardfought 16:21 you don't need an IRC client for IRC, it's easy enough to do by hand 16:22 i dont think its possible but i ask again see if we can at least shorten it 16:22 <@mtf> raisse / K2: like I said, we can most likely fiddle with the output of the bridge to make it better for ya'll 16:22 in the #krita channel we have issues with people who are used to non-irc protocols and think that they can come in, ask a question and leave, and the answer will be waiting for them when they come back 16:22 I sometimes do it when I need an alt for some reason or just to show off 16:22 it DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT, people 16:22 ais523|telnet: Quite aside from that, though, there are a number of quite customizeable clients available. 16:22 heh 16:22 this also means that writing IRC bots is very easy, often easier to do it manually than to use a framework 16:22 <@mtf> my biggest problem with IRC is the fact that I can't close my client and come back later to read messages I missed 16:22 mtf later on tonight if you're on, lets talk about the link bot 16:22 <@mtf> nor can I edit my messages 16:22 <[Demo]> yey ais fighting the good fight 16:23 ais523|telnet: discord is actually *worse* 16:23 because it allows people to share nicks on the same server 16:23 at the same time 16:23 that's why I have irina|log running, to read backscroll 16:23 @mtf: I actually think it's beneficial to know whether or not someone is here, and it's also beneficial for people to stop bothering me when I'm not 16:23 FIQ: Eww, I didn't even know that. 16:23 <@mtf> FIQ: but they are easily discernable by the unique tag associated with them 16:23 <@mtf> hi I am totally mtf --fiq 16:23 and mtf, we have !tell here via Beholder, and of course the public irc logs 16:23 but not all channels have that 16:23 <@mtf> ais: I can easily tell who's online based on the status icons, and if I don't want to be disturbed I turn on Do Not Disturb mode or close my client 😛 16:24 <[Demo]> my client never goes down 16:24 if you can read messages that were made when you weren't there, people often expect you to read them at some point; that's maybe acceptable at work (where we use Gitter) but not really casually 16:24 My client goes down when the power goes out. 16:24 I happen to like konversation but irina|log is on irssi 16:24 * K2 likes irssi 16:24 (and konversation gets closed when I close my laptop, of course 16:24 ) 16:24 <@mtf> ais: nah, I disagree. As an admin here there are 10 billion messages a day for me to potentially read, but obviously I don't get to them all 16:24 <@mtf> if somebody really wants me to read something, they will ping me 16:25 I also somewhat dislike the concept of "being a member of a channel" while you're not there, things are much more fluid than that if membership lists are arbitrary 16:25 ais523|telnet: I suggested on the discord-irc github (which RLdiscord uses) to use a message that the bot constantly edits with the people online 16:25 ais523|telnet: Eh, I only read backscroll in certain channels (not, for instance, this one, usually), though I do get _hilights_ when e.g. I get nickpinged, and have logs I can consult if I am looking for something particular. 16:25 the idea being that you can pin this message on discord 16:25 pros and cons to both obviously. at least we all have a *choice* on what we want to use 16:25 for users to see online status/etc 16:25 <@mtf> not sure how IRC handles highlights, but I can click one button to jump directly to the context of pings directed at me 16:25 <@mtf> it's very useful for understanding what that specific ping was talking about 16:26 @mtf highlights are entirely clientside 16:26 anyway, I am surprised that there aren't more IRC channels which have some sort of automatic backscroll / summon implemented, it's not hard to do technically but for some reason people don't want to 16:26 there is no "how IRC clients handle highlights" 16:26 ^ 16:26 <@mtf> FIQ: in other words, if you're not online, highlights don't do anything for you 16:26 <@mtf> see... I don't like this 😛 16:26 Old IRC clients from the days of yore probably didn't do hilights at all, but all modern ones do, I think. 16:26 @mtf exactly, because IRC has no backscroll 16:26 @mtf: 16:26 <@riker> I don't like IRC not having backscroll /shrug 16:26 <@mtf> ^ 16:26 ugh, whoops, forgot the colon 16:26 first time in ages 16:27 -!- ais523|telnet has quit [Quit: forgot the colon, quits in shame] 16:27 <@riker> ais523: you sent a colon 16:27 <@riker> just nothing after it /shrug 16:27 Heh 16:27 <@mtf> lol 16:27 @riker IRC _the protocol_ doesn't provide backscroll; but all modern clients do. 16:27 @riker: you have to write a colon at the start of any parameter to an IRC command that contains spaces 16:27 such as the text you're sending to a channel 16:27 <@riker> jonadab: discord lets you view things sent when you werent' online though 16:27 if you forget then only the first word gets sent 16:27 <@riker> ais523: ah ok 16:27 <@mtf> yea, exactly what riker was saying 16:27 @riker So does irssi. 16:27 So does weechat. 16:27 <@mtf> my clients are not open all the time though 16:27 So do all reasonable IRC clients. 16:27 IRC clients deal with this automatically so it only comes up if you do something stupid like connecting via telnet ;-) 16:27 <@riker> irssi does? 16:27 <@riker> huh 16:27 jonadab: that is not true 16:27 <@mtf> I don't want to have to run clients to get my messages 16:28 you still need to be online 16:28 <@riker> irssi doesn't afaict 16:28 with the client 16:28 <@riker> ^ 16:28 FIQ: No, your _client_ needs to be online, but duh. 16:28 even though *you* as in the person doesn't have to 16:28 _You_ can be in the mountains of Tibet. 16:28 <@riker> ? 16:28 jonadab: yeah, but you don't have to on Discord 16:28 at all 16:28 <@mtf> what FIQ said 16:28 with any client 16:28 <@riker> ^ 16:28 you will still retain a backscroll when you're back 16:28 FIQ: You're saying it's server-side instead of client-side. 16:28 discord sends you it 16:28 yes, exactly 16:28 <@riker> (tbf there's only 1 discord client and then the mobile app) 16:28 <@riker> jonadab: yes 16:28 <@riker> discord logs everything 16:28 FIQ: So effectively all Discord users use znc. 16:29 <[Demo]> discord owners BAD 16:29 there are also services that have this for irc, like irccloud 16:29 basically bouncers 16:29 like znc, yes 16:29 Right, like I said, znc. 16:29 <@riker> jonadab: same effect yes 16:29 Which I don't use. 16:29 <@riker> not the same way I don't think tho 16:29 <@riker> //shrug 16:29 i use znc 16:29 like right now, i'm at work 16:29 <@mtf> Demo: I don't really know anyting about the discord owners, but discord logging everything isn't a problem in my book; it's a feature 16:29 <@riker> figured as much k2 16:30 and in a couple hrs from now when you see me chat again it'll from home 16:30 <@riker> since you never go offline 16:30 yup 16:30 <[Demo]> china is the enemy the west is at war 16:30 I run weechat on my VPS 16:30 which I access from anywhere 16:30 that's why I'm basically always online 16:30 wooo raisse! 16:30 <@riker> [demo] you sure bout dat 16:30 <@mtf> No +3 wish? smh 16:30 <@mtf> 😛 16:30 nope, not so early 16:31 <@riker> +5 wish best wish 16:31 @mtf Really, logging should be supported by the protocol but enabled/disabled on a per-channel basis by the chanops. 16:31 I always go +3 myself :P 16:31 I was diluting a potion 16:31 <@riker> heh 16:31 AC -2 anyway 16:31 jonadab: there is a proposal in IRCv3 for logging I think 16:31 <@mtf> jona: It is in discord... you can turn off message history, or other peoples ability to view it 16:31 <@riker> I always forget how nice DSM is 16:31 <@riker> since I don't think I've ever used it 16:31 <@riker> my single asc didn't either 16:32 Anyway, the logging/backscroll seems like an unimportant point to me. All decent IRC clients can do as much of that as you want. 16:32 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 16:32 ... as long as you can stay online with it. 16:32 [hdf-us] [un] Delraven (Cav Hum Mal Law) killed the Watcher in the Water, on T:35675 16:32 -!- rikersan has quit [Client Quit] 16:32 wait, the watcher in the water isn't a dnh thing? 16:33 its been in unnethack for some time 16:33 <[Demo]> its a lotr thing 16:33 <@mtf> jona: but logging allows for the most important feature that IRC doesn't have... editing previous messages 16:33 ruins of moria 16:33 ah 16:33 <@mtf> I'm a horrible speller sometimes, and editing my message after it's sent helps a lot 16:33 guaranteed magic lamp 16:33 @mtf I consider that not important at all 16:33 <@mtf> you guys probably think I'm dyslexic 16:33 <@mtf> lol 16:33 raisse: You have to keep a computer online anyway, to be able to server out content via e.g. http. (Ok, maybe my usage pattern is not _entirely_ typical...) 16:33 thats one thing i wish my irc client had - a spell checker 16:33 <@mtf> FIQ: one man's trash is another mans' treasure, no? 16:34 @mtf :P 16:34 yeah, we have one of those too 16:34 cuz i cnt spl 16:34 <@riker> fiq: dnh doesn't livelog the watcher iirc 16:34 I can spell, I just can't typ. 16:34 <@riker> does it? 16:35 @rikersan NOt sure 16:35 "livelog the watcher"? 16:35 <@riker> I don't think I've killed the watcher on hdf but he's more a pushover iirc 16:35 jonadab: the watcher in the water 16:35 the unique 16:35 *Not sure 16:35 <@riker> jonadab: don't think dnh logs the watcher in the water so beholder prints it 16:35 Ah. 16:35 @riker if you can teleport it out of the water, its easy 16:35 <@riker> un obviously does 16:35 I was thinking of people watching your game and got confused. 16:35 <@riker> k2: well it's a pushover in dnh over the water too :p 16:35 !who 16:35 FIQ: [hdf-us] hothraxxa [dyn] groovejumper [fh] mightyquinn [sp] Delraven [un] 16:35 FIQ: [hdf-eu] Raisse [nd] 16:35 <@riker> it doesn't drop a lamp tho 16:35 ah 16:35 <@riker> it drops nothing actually 16:36 <@riker> iirc 16:36 <@riker> >_> 16:36 <@riker> which tbh makes me not sure why chris added it 16:36 because lotr 16:36 ask Chris_ANG :P 16:36 is it still "the watcher in the water" when you teleport it out? 16:36 <@riker> though then again I realize that kinda applies to 90% of dnh 16:36 <@riker> //shrug 16:36 hah raisse 16:36 <@riker> raisse: well it's still definitely wet 16:36 <@riker> and it's presumably sitting in a puddle 16:36 The Watcher In The Floor 16:36 The Watcher Out Of The Water 16:36 'the watcher in the wish I was back in my swimming pool' 16:37 i wonder if you can poly it 16:37 the watcher in the water is now a woodchuck 16:37 Don't see why you couldn't 16:37 @u?watcher in the ewater 16:37 watcher in the ewater ~1~ Watcher in the Water (;) | Lvl: 24 | Diff: 28 | Spd: 9 | Res: sleep poison | Confers: sleep | MR: 30 | Generates: unique | AC: -2 | Attacks: 2d6 claw physical, 2d6 claw physical, 2d6 hug wrap, 5d6 bite physical | Alignment: -3 | Flags: carnivore, swims, amphibious, nopoly, infravisible 16:37 ah nopoly :/ 16:37 -!- nht has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:37 <@riker> fiq: can you check dnh too? 16:37 @d?watcher in the water 16:37 Watcher in the Water (;) | Lvl: 24 | Diff: 30 | Spd: 9 | Res: disintegrate poison petrification magic | Confers: nothing | MR: 125 | Generates: unique | AC: -2 | Attacks: 2d8 claw physical, 2d8 claw physical, 2d6 hug wrap, 5d6 bite physical, 0d0 gaze magical-tentacle-gaze, 0d0 suicide explode magical-tentacle-gaze | Alignment: -3 | Flags: carnivore, swims, amphibious, nopoly, infravisible 16:38 <@riker> iirc he changed it a bit 16:38 <@riker> ok it's got MR then 16:38 <[Demo]> https://i.imgur.com/rWG5PwO.png rate my level 16:38 damn its buffed up for dnh 16:38 <@riker> I also love how chris generalized everything into gaze attacks 16:38 <@riker> so throwing potions of blindness is amazign 16:38 [Demo]: omg des file want!!! 16:38 <@riker> >_> 16:38 <@riker> [demo]: 9/10 is not weratedogs 16:38 <@riker> pretty nice level though 16:39 also what is a "troll of whispers"? 16:39 @riker Ah, so like ADOM cursed invis 16:39 <@riker> guareenteed wand of cold would be nice 16:39 its like a rorschach image 16:39 <@riker> fiq: how's that work? >_> 16:39 i see a turtle 16:39 Throw it and it completely cripples the monster 16:39 [Demo]: you should totally make a github of your fork so I can steal whatever features I want for slex *cute dog-like gaze* ♥ 16:39 It gives blindness 16:39 <@riker> I see the little aliens from armada 16:39 <@riker> fiq: oh does it? TIL 16:39 <@riker> no its' just that the watcher is magical in dnh 16:39 <@riker> spawns tons of replaceable tentacles 16:39 <@riker> not the only dnh monster to do that, the point is that it can do that whenever 16:40 [Demo]: 0/10 impossible to make out 16:40 <@riker> the problem is chris generalized those as "gazes" so blindness ruins them 16:40 because colors 16:40 <@riker> :( 16:40 <[Demo]> oh yeah 16:40 <[Demo]> it is kinda shit to look at yeah 16:40 <@riker> yeah dang demo what's up with your terminal coloring 16:40 <@riker> smh 16:40 <[Demo]> im colorblind? 16:40 <[Demo]> idk 16:41 nh4 has a pallet like that 16:41 <@riker> are you actually [demo]? 16:41 <@riker> fiq: I use gotham terminal theme, basically just white on black /shrug 16:41 http://home.fiq.se/badcolors.png 16:41 <[Demo]> no im not but its a good excuse for using a terminal that looks like ass 16:41 ais523: btw, tmux seems to emulate pallets with truecolor 16:41 which is cool 16:42 allows it to work even on terminals where you usually can't set pallet 16:42 <@riker> [demo] get gotham best theme 16:42 -!- DrakeMarshall has joined #hardfought 16:43 also this pallet is crazy 16:43 darkgray is green for some reason? 16:44 <@riker> lol 16:44 <@riker> who made it? 16:44 <@riker> (didn't ais make nh4?) 16:44 well yes 16:44 but I don't think he made that pallet 16:45 [hdf-us] [un] Delraven (Cav Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed fireproof +2 T-shirt", on T:35858 16:46 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 16:46 <@riker> fiq: isn't the word "palette"? 16:46 @mtf [backscroll] part of the reason IRC servers are light to run is that they don't have to save messages, only relay them. 16:46 @riker hmm maybe 16:46 <@riker> think so 16:47 -!- nht has quit [Client Quit] 16:48 I hope Delraven ascends 16:50 K2: why doesn't un have extrainfo? 16:50 or spork 16:50 FIQ: attempts at emulating truecolor are actually really hurtful for libuncursed 16:50 as it can't distinguish between that and a terminal that actually does support truecolor 16:50 so often it assumes the terminal can do more than it actually can 16:50 ais523: that's not what I am saying 16:51 A - a cursed +0 elven spear of fmbl & hungr & aggr (unpaid, 1003 zorkmids). 16:51 oh, right, other way round 16:51 I am saying that tmux handles pallets by sending truecolors 16:51 <[Demo]> i like tmux and its my friend 16:51 that should be doable by libuncursed 16:51 even uncursed i don't want this spear 16:51 hothraxxa: wow 16:51 aosdict: IRC's often used for broadcasting realtime, high-volume data for that reason 16:52 that are the only 3 bad propertiess 16:52 and you got all 3 16:52 <@riker> hothraxxa: vladbane found 16:52 huh 16:52 *properties 16:52 FIQ they do 16:52 e.g. the machine-readable version of the unfiltered recent changes for the whole of Wikipedia is sent by IRC 16:52 <@riker> what about mercy fiq? 16:52 <@mtf> aos: I could honestly care less about how heavy the backend of my chat system is 😛 16:52 @riker this is dynahack I assume 16:52 it is 16:52 <@mtf> we live in a day and age where CPU processing and memory sizes are gigantic 16:52 hmm 16:52 it is the only one that formats properties like that if there's a lot 16:52 no mercy 16:52 lemme rephrase 16:52 <@riker> ah 16:52 its setup server side for extrainfo 16:52 FIQHack allows up to 4 until it compresses it 16:52 i have many dead orc wizards to prove it 16:52 <@riker> hothraxxa: lol 16:52 and the output is a bit different 16:52 <@riker> you should seriously keep it to use for vlad 16:53 !whereis Delraven 16:53 K2: [hdf-us] Delraven [fh]: (Ran Elf Mal Cha) T:10949 The Gnomish Mines level: 5 16:53 K2: [hdf-us] Delraven [un]: (Caveman human Mal lawful) T:35101 The Ruins of Moria level: 12 16:53 K2: [hdf-eu] Delraven [un]: (Undefined undefined Mal neutral) T:1 The Dungeons of Doom level: -1 16:53 kinda like DCSS randarts 16:53 ugh 16:53 this needs to be addressed 16:53 <@riker> that's a bit of undef 16:53 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:53 K2: no idea what's with the weird un extrainfo 16:53 the middle one is correct for Delraven 16:53 but I don't think there's any reasonable way to fix FIQHack's 16:53 due to the restore/save behaviour of it 16:53 its not a fiqhack issue 16:54 <@riker> fiq; you can't just patch everything immediatley then let one bug slide :p 16:54 its a dgl issue 16:54 <@riker> ./s 16:54 @riker this isn't as much a FIQHack bug 16:54 <@mtf> I don't know why, but this reminds me of ADOM's recent challenge mode bug... somehow the week's challenge was generating a gender of "neutral" for the challenge character xD 16:54 as a limitation of the save system 16:54 btw mr. riker. my compliments on the last st:discovery. well done sir 16:54 @mtf if freenode had to pay costs of storage for all the logs for all the channels, they would probably have a harder time getting the funds to stay alive 16:54 <@mtf> but it came out looking like a neuter human weaponsmith 16:54 <@mtf> aos: perhaps, but discord seems to do just fine 16:55 <@mtf> probably why they are proprietary 16:55 <@mtf> then again slack does the same thing 16:55 <@mtf> and has a much more open API 16:55 slack is also proprietary 16:55 <@riker> hothraxxa: >_> 16:55 slack is way more FOSS-friendly 16:55 <@riker> I haven't actually seen that much star trek 16:55 a much more open protocol 16:55 alright leaving work, see you all later 16:55 the software backing it is open source 16:55 etc 16:55 slack sells itself as "chat tools +" to organizations of various sizes 16:55 <@riker> but that's my name so whatever 16:56 won't let you have more than 5 people on it unless you pay 16:56 <@mtf> aos: It's for businesses 16:56 <@mtf> not for gaming 16:56 uh huh 16:56 aosdict: what 16:56 <@mtf> and I will say it is fantastic, much better than discord 16:56 I am in a slack group which doesn't pay for it 16:56 there is more than 5 people 16:56 <@mtf> the limit is more like 50 16:56 <@mtf> not 5 😛 16:56 <@mtf> but you can't have plugins or anything cool without upgrading 16:57 I use gitter at work, it's very similar to discord/slack 16:57 the only issue we've had is the 10k log limit 16:57 and am not even sure what the benefit to a premium account there is, if anything 16:57 FIQ: 10k? that's tiny 16:57 FIQ: well, this is from at least a few years ago 16:57 <@mtf> ais: I did a 5s look and it does look very similar 16:57 allthough for me personally it's not an issue since I use weeslack 16:57 unless it's 10k lines rather than 10k chars 16:57 so I have client logging anyway 16:57 and yes, the 10k log limit is awful 16:57 ais523: 10k lines, yes 16:57 10k chars would be basically nothing 16:57 chat.stackexchange.com is also very similar, and gets on my nerves in a number of different ways 16:57 lol 16:58 aosdict: Use weeslack :P 16:58 <@mtf> ais: oooh gitter has IRC support built in 16:58 <@mtf> I've never heard of this app before 16:58 @mtf so does Slack 16:58 hmm, gitter is apparently 100% free, I wonder how it makes its money 16:58 @mtf come to think of it, how does discord monetize...? 16:58 <@mtf> does it? oh 16:58 aosdict: it sells emotes, I think 16:58 <@mtf> I would probably never use irc for work tho 16:58 allthough I use a weechat add-on, rather than the IRC gateway 16:59 <@riker> aosdict: you can buy discord premium stuff 16:59 <@mtf> aos: Through discord nitro I believe 16:59 it integrates more nicely 16:59 <@mtf> I pay for nitro myself 16:59 discord nitro has a bunch of token features that isn't worth caring for 16:59 oh yay, you can use server emotes everywhere! 16:59 <@mtf> https://discordapp.com/nitro 16:59 because that's so important 16:59 <@mtf> I like it for file uploads FIQ 16:59 yeah, that doesn't have me convinced it brings in enough money 17:00 <@wheals> it is somewhat worrisome though, it seems unlikely that it's breaking even, even with nitro 17:00 the only notable feature is, yeah 17:00 bigger file uploads 17:00 <@wheals> it's being financed by startup investments mostly now 17:00 <@mtf> aos: I'm pretty sure it's not profitable yet 17:00 <@mtf> because it's still basically in beta 17:00 I assume, for any piece of software that you can't see where its money is coming from, the money is coming from selling data. 17:00 I don't think it ever will in its current state 17:00 <@mtf> I guarantee you there will be more features 17:01 <@mtf> FIQ: The fact that there are millions and millions of people using it says to me that it will become profitable 17:01 <@mtf> there are definitely chat features they can add that will be worth paying for 17:01 only if enough people pay 17:01 <@mtf> and people will pay if they are added 😃 17:01 <@mtf> hell if discord had more integrations like slack does, I bet it would make a lot more money 17:02 [hdf-us] [fh] groovejumper (Wiz Elf Fem Cha) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:15412 17:04 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:16 K2: how much CPU/memory does my fiqhack watch process use? 17:17 it's in replaymode with the complete game of groovejumper's current game in memory checkpointed in 50-turn intervals with no compression 17:17 CPU usage should be near zero, unsure with memory 17:19 -!- ThatBenGuy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:20 -!- ThatBenGuy has joined #hardfought 17:21 is there any generic function for monsters losing HP in vanilla? No mlosehp() function? 17:21 I can't see anything like one, at least. 17:22 no 17:22 not in fiqhack either, because I keep putting off making one lol 17:23 Because there are a million places it has to subtract HP, and then check if <= 0, and then call any of killed, xkilled, mondied, or monkilled, and then check *again* for if it was lifesaved 17:23 yes 17:23 I know 17:23 :P 17:23 even more awkward in fiqhack 17:23 "eh I will make one later" 17:24 it's 2 years and going, still no mlosehp 17:24 ok let me do that 17:24 do it in vanilla first? pretty please? 17:24 :_ 17:24 :) * 17:25 you could just copy my fiqhack commit 17:25 it shouldn't be that hard to merge 17:26 well, the function itself shouldn't be hard to merge. all the places in the code that should be changed to use it, though... 17:26 oh 17:26 meh 17:27 it's not nearly as applicable in vanilla anyway 17:27 it doesn't really have that many functions shared 17:27 oh I guess mlosehp would be useful regardless 17:30 FIQ: The one vanilla wouldn't be able to use is the merged one that works on either the player or a monster. 17:33 jonadab: yeah the thing is, all the mlosehp() cases seem to be spread out over the various monster death functions. 17:33 I mean, you could have it take a function pointer, I guess... 17:34 mlosehp() should have a monster parameter for who's responsible 17:34 which is null if it's a trap or the like 17:39 mlosehp(struct monst *magr, struct monst *mdef, int n, const char *mkiller, int adtyp, const char *killer) 17:40 not sure if I like the amount of parameters on this thing 17:40 FIQ: is that serious or a joke? :-) 17:40 ais523: thing is, monkilled wants flavour text and adtyp 17:40 also, does this handle things like the "passive" of priests? 17:40 for... some reason? I'm not sure if it's ever used 17:41 mkiller is just flavour text 17:41 "The hill orc is killed by the magic missile!" etc 17:43 -!- ThatBenGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:44 ais523: mlosehp(magr, mdef, dmg, "", AD_RBRE, killer_msg(DIED, kbuf)); 17:44 I'm not sure if I can lessen the amount of arguments on this thing tbh 17:45 yes, that doesn't seem sustainable 17:45 the adtyp is for handling whether or not a corpse should be dropped 17:45 either work out if we can reduce the number of arguments or use some sort of abstraction 17:45 maybe a structure that describes an instance of an attack, for example 17:45 ais523: I have that... as part of xhity rework :P 17:45 which is unfinished 17:48 -!- DrakeMarshall has quit [Quit: *poof*] 17:49 -!- DrakeMarshall has joined #hardfought 17:50 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:51 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 17:52 <[Demo]> oh hey i triggered trickery catching on myself 17:53 <[Demo]> that is bad 17:56 FIQ: still not sure why some monkilled calls use positive AD_RBRE. 17:57 aosdict: no particular reason I think 17:57 -AD_RBRE means "disintegrated, don't leave corpse" 17:57 Because monkilled checks for *negative* AD_RBRE. So positive shouldn't do anything. 17:57 and AD_DGST too 17:57 yes 17:58 And why are we using AD_RBRE instead of AD_DISN for disintegration, anyway? 18:12 who knows! 18:14 <[Demo]> hmm this is weird 18:14 <[Demo]> "Couldn't place lregion type 6! Program in disorder" when i move the stairs to the spot that for whatever reason whenever i teleport into the level i land on 18:18 ais523: since the impossible() message is open to be changed, shouldn't it suggest filing a bug at nethack.org? 18:21 <[Demo]> oh hmm i see the game is being a bitch 18:23 <[Demo]> oh I see 18:26 FIQ: I dont know why unnethack or sporkhack dont create an .extrainfo file 18:26 its setup correctly server side to do so 18:29 cool, got devteam mail response for a bugfix, but alas not for the iron golem thing 18:31 aosdict: I got slightly burned by that with the NH4 equivalnet 18:31 it's hard to ensure that URLs will stay valid forever 18:31 although I guess the NH3 bug report form is fairly stable, I don't want people to feel the duty to report bugs we already know about 18:32 the bug report form does suggest you check the known bugs list 18:32 and you don't have to say nethack.org/common/contact.html, it could just be "Consider reporting this to the DevTeam." 18:33 !whereis k2 18:33 K2: [hdf-us] k2 is not currently playing on this server. 18:33 As for duplicate bug reports... better too many than too little IMO 18:36 though it's nice if the user checks to see if their bug is listed beforehand, it also makes it harder to report one. 18:51 bhaak: unnethack was never written to utilize extrainfo with dgamelauch was it? 19:03 aosdict: I got no response for my thing :P 19:03 Not that I expected any, anyway 19:06 -!- Announcy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:06 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:12 is that the one I posted recently to the devteam page? 19:12 okay yes it is 19:13 FIQ: "your thing" = the getobj-vi-acomma patch? 19:13 *via-comma 19:13 I don't really expect one either 19:13 but if there isn't one I'm planning to poke it in an couple of days 19:14 -!- ThatBenGuy has joined #hardfought 19:14 well, having no one respond at all, ever, is bad form 19:14 I haven't looked at the code behind it in detail yet, but one thing that concerns me is that it assigned an actual letter as an inventory letter for an item on the floor or a trap or something like that 19:14 shouldn't it be using # or the like? 19:14 aosdict: there's a major dysfunction in the devteam email which is that nobody's quite sure who's supposed to reply to any given email 19:14 if you're the best-placed person to reply, or as good as any, you reply 19:15 but if you know that someone specific would give a better reply but aren't even sure if they're reading email… 19:15 I'm still not sure why a private communication channel is preferred over the DT discussions being public 19:15 *publicly readable 19:16 ais523: yeah that thing 19:16 If it's to "surprise" players with things in a new release, I think the era of that is kind of bygone, players love playtesting dev versions 19:16 ais523: it doesn't use inventory letters for things on the floor? it works like NH4 19:17 i.e. you press , 19:17 then if there is several selections 19:17 you press one of the applicable letters 19:17 I can't really use non-alpha letters, unless you suggest I assign !"#¤%&()= or similar 19:17 aosdict: quite a few of the people who contact us are the sort of people who don't like their communications being public 19:17 which seems very dubious 19:17 also ¤ isn't on a typical US/UK keyboard 19:18 but I see, it's a followup menu to ,, that makes more sense 19:18 ¤ is shift+4 on a Swedish qwerty layout 19:18 (it's on my keyboard because my keyboard has basically everything, that's useful for esolang programs or just communication in general) 19:18 <[Demo]> $ is dollar money US 19:18 It isn't really used in Swedish, so I assume it's a general feature of EU keyboard layouts 19:18 in the UK shift-4 is $ 19:18 and we have euro on altgr-4 19:18 <[Demo]> ok so same as us 19:18 ais523: this is not necessarily for devteam *contacts* (we've discussed that, it'd be great if nethack.org allowed you to post reports publicly) but rather for other devteam internal communication 19:18 (this is the only altgr-binding that became popular) 19:18 $ is altgr+4 here 19:19 € is altgr+5 19:19 <[Demo]> whats an altgr? 19:19 ¡@£$€¥{[]} is altgr+1234567890 19:19 [Demo]: Hyper 19:19 <[Demo]> oh right alt 19:19 <[Demo]> thats weird 19:19 [Demo]: it's in the right alt position and gives access to a third set of characters (and a fourth with altgr-shift) 19:19 Windows normally interprets it as ctrl-alt if not given any more specific information 19:19 ¹²³¼¢⅝÷«»° altgr+shift+1234567890, but I think this is just in X, or linux 19:20 Linux as a secondary shift that gives access to more special charactesr 19:20 <[Demo]> my alts do the same thing 19:20 I don't think Windows has the 4th set of keys 19:20 shift-altgr is the default binding for compose on many Linux distros 19:21 -!- DrakeMarshall has quit [Quit: *poof*] 19:22 (I moved compose to caps lock, and caps lock to shift-shift, as I type special characters so often) 19:23 aosdict │ well, having no one respond at all, ever, is bad form 19:23 -!- ThatBenGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:23 oh you sweet summer child 19:23 you expect DT to actually reply to mails? 19:23 because that happens basically never 19:23 this means that to see if DT actually bothered to address my bug fixes 19:24 I instead just follow their repo 19:24 (well I'd do that anyway, but yeah) 19:24 That is a far more realible means of seeing if they did something about it or not 19:24 Which they usually do 19:25 Allthough not always; see the "Unknown" entries at https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Bugs_in_NetHack_3.6.0#Bugs_not_mentioned_on_the_DevTeam.27s_website 19:25 there's often a bizarrely lonng delay between the fix and the email about it being sent 19:25 I don't know what the reason for that is 19:25 Despite some of them clearly being bugs 19:25 there's also the fact that our email system used to be buggy and just dropped email 19:25 that should be addressed 19:25 and the fact that the person who updates the website is a different person from the person who fixes the bug 19:25 this is probably the most important ignored bug of the ones I've submitted, I think: "In corner cases, travel can kill pets. Full report" 19:26 I don't remember seeing that one 19:26 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:FIQ/DevTeam#Pet_displacement_during_travel 19:26 this is actually a bug you introduced I think, possibly in AceHack or NH4 19:26 which made its way into vanilla 19:27 SporkHack updated (us and eu) 19:27 huh, well I didn't add it to vanilla myself 19:27 adds extrainfo support 19:27 ais523: Right, that was paxed I think 19:27 K2: nice :) 19:27 hmm, the search box in my email client is refusing to accept the digit 2 19:27 sounds like a great client 19:27 you can search on the header 19:27 looks like the only digits it allows are 6789 19:28 this is a really bizarre bug 19:28 s/on/for/ 19:28 I'm assuming some kind of misassumption in the keyboard handling 19:28 it is the exact one I used in the DT contact form 19:28 oh, numpad works 19:28 and yes, we received it 19:28 terminal client I assume? 19:28 no, GUI 19:28 huh 19:28 weird, then 19:28 I can see some sort of reasoning behind numbers being buggy in terminals 19:28 and it's not like the keys are broken as I can type them into IRC 19:28 because terminals are weird 19:28 but being broken in a GUI makes no sense 19:29 my guess is that 012345 are already used for some other purpose 19:29 probably 19:29 H6204 is going to be a huge pain because it wouldn't surprise me if at least one devteam member considers the behaviour intentional 19:29 (even though it clearly wasn't) 19:29 oh god why would you ever consider that 19:30 there's a difference between lack of prompts for normal movement 19:30 which is still really dubious, but not something DT is going to change their mind on it seems 19:30 and travel which is supposed to be purely an UI convenience for fast-travel 19:31 "if you're running around and not looking where you're going it makes sense that you might push your pet into a trap due to inattention" 19:31 like, you could also argue that travel should be able to rarely walk in a bad direction 19:31 for similar reasons 19:31 I find it really easy to flavour that as intentional, especially given the comments in the source that suggest that safe_pet abuse is something to be avoided 19:31 note that I don't /agree/ with that but it's consistent with the general attitude shown by NH3… 19:32 ais523: right, but that doesn't apply to travel 19:32 there are several cases where you couldn't reasonably know that travel would kill your pet 19:32 unless you happened to be right next to it 19:33 then why are you using such a dangerous form of movement? /s 19:33 ais523: the 2nd most important bug that has been left unfixed that I've reported is #H6285 19:34 itself, it is also clearly a bug, but it is an extreme edge case, which I can see makes it lower-prio 19:34 however, the panic is worrying 19:34 that looks like a pain to debug/reproduce 19:35 ugh, sudo just reported me again 19:35 for entering the wrong password 19:35 bad ais523! 19:35 FIQ: I didn't know you made asoiaf references :) 19:35 very naughty 19:35 it's a useful program in some ways but so much of what it does is security theatre 19:36 aosdict: asoiaf? 19:36 a song of ice and fire, the book series behind game of thrones, popularized the expression "sweet summer child" 19:37 oh that 19:37 yeah but it's a common reference 19:37 :P 19:37 I haven't read them, or watched the series 19:37 it's not even really a reference at this point, people pick it up because they see it used and/or find it amusing, so it can be used by people who have no idea where it comes from 19:37 I do know the origin, though 19:38 ais523: anyway, I am not that worried about my mail getting stuck anymore. It seems to generally not happen unless there are URLs in the report 19:38 Which usually makes me ask a DT member to confirm if it was sent or not 19:39 for example, the getpos patch thing contained 2 URLs 19:39 which was enough to make me uncertain on whether it would be sent or not 19:40 bhaak confirmed receiving it though 19:40 I think there has only been 2 occurences of my reports being stuck 19:42 The other 2 "unknown"-state reports I have is a trivial oddity that might not even be considered a bug (#H6189), and one where DT might disagree (#H6422) 19:44 hmm, I don't want to go near data.base 19:44 (and in fact deleted all content from it in NH4 and wrote my own) 19:44 H6422 is the sort of thing that's only likely to get fixed in variants, due to the effort/reward ratio 19:45 ais523: Yeah, the other 2 are minor issues at best 19:46 it's disappointing for me that I'm probably the third most active devteam member 19:46 even though I only really step in to answer emails that anyone can answer, and to fix what I consider to be major/critical issues with the gameplay 19:46 -!- DrakeMarshall has joined #hardfought 19:47 There is also some other things I've sent to DT; but they aren't really bugs 19:49 hmm, would this be considered a bug? https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:FIQ/DevTeam#Genociding_slimes_should_stop_sliming 19:49 apparently I never added it to the "list of 3.6.0 bugs" 19:49 I guess I didn't regard it as a bug, more an enhancement 19:49 that's really debatable 19:49 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:FIQ/DevTeam has all of my reports, and some by ais523 19:49 I think the best fix here may be to make slimes ungenoable 19:50 ais523: Why? 19:50 err 19:50 *some by aosdict 19:50 to avoid the issue entirely 19:50 ah 19:50 also some of my bug reports to the devteam /are/ on the wiki, but on an entirely different page 19:50 and from before I joined 19:50 urgh 19:51 reading this bug list 19:51 unsurprisingly, I haven't used the bug report form very much since joining the devteam (but I occasionally do for things I don't have time to fix myself) 19:51 I really hate how 0 isn't NON_PM 19:51 what sort of ant is 0? soldier? giant? 19:51 giant 19:51 I wouldn't be surprised in case I do the wrong assumption in some places 19:51 this is a little helpful in that it helps keep missingno.s out of your game when 0 gets used for a monster by mistake 19:51 (which can definitely happen in at least 3.4.3) 19:51 ais523: IMO that is better 19:52 but the drawbacks probably outweight the advantages 19:52 It exposes bugs 19:52 So you can fix them 19:52 -!- DrakeMarshall has quit [Quit: *poof*] 19:52 yes, I'm normally in favour of fail-fast 19:53 ais523: one thing I noticed when I wrote the getpos thing for NH3 19:53 especially in NH4, where it increases the chance that you can fix things before they get permanently broken via the use of the previous turn's save backup 19:53 some things that I would declare as panics in NH4 19:53 *getobj? 19:53 I declared as impossibles in NH3 19:53 err yes 19:53 anyway, because panic in NH3 isn't really handled that well 19:53 and I'd rather not kill people's games by bugs 19:54 ais523: making slimes ungenoable seems like the wrong approach 19:54 aosdict: I agree 19:54 right, in NH4 we tend to only use impossible in cases where the recovery routine is unlikely to produce an internally inconsistent save file 19:55 -!- DrakeMarshall has joined #hardfought 20:09 -!- ThatBenGuy has joined #hardfought 20:32 -!- DrakeMarshall has quit [Quit: *poof*] 20:42 [hdf-us] [nd] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed Ashikaga Takauji, on T:34118 20:43 [hdf-us] [nd] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:34120 20:53 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 20:57 [hdf-us] [nd] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) entered Gehennom, on T:34909 21:15 <@luxidream> huh, beholder doesn't announce anything from vanilla NH4 21:18 "vanilla NH4" 21:19 you mean livelog stuff, or deaths? it should announce deaths 21:20 vanilla nh4 doesn't have livelog 21:21 <@luxidream> ah, didn't know that 21:21 we can communicate with the discord now? 21:22 yes 21:22 cool 21:25 [hdf-us] [nd] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) performed her first genocide (class h), on T:36418 21:35 !whereis Luxidream 21:35 FIQ: [hdf-us] Luxidream [nh4]: No details available 21:36 Tangles: K2 I think nh4 has a livelog branch 21:40 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:41 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 21:42 would be cool if it did 21:44 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 21:48 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 21:53 Also during dNethack's original Junethack outing, ranged monster spellcasting was implemented in the middle of the tournament due to the author's mistaken belief that it was present in vanilla NetHack, and therefore its absence in dNetHack was due to a bug. 21:54 Chris_ANG: so the reason dnh casters can cast at range 21:54 originated from a misunderstanding? 21:56 cast from range how? 21:56 smite targeting 21:56 like cast a ranged spell like magic missile? 21:56 they can cast melee spells as if they were ranged 21:56 in dnh 21:56 oh 21:56 psi bolt 21:56 "touch" of death 21:56 okay 21:56 etc 21:57 does dnh fix the mutual sight bug? 21:58 stth was very understanding about the whole thing. 21:58 Chris_ANG: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2018-01-09 04:24 EST: Your elder priest is too weak, here's some suggestions to beef him up: https://www.reddit.com/r/nethack/comments/7ox4eq/setting_the_bar_even_higher/dserrci/ :D 21:58 <@luxidream> !whereis knavery 21:58 Mutual sight bug? 21:58 where monsters can see you if you can see them 21:59 <@luxidream> darn, can't beholder to do things discord side 21:59 even when they logically shouldn't be able to see you 21:59 i.e. through walls 22:00 !whereis knavery 22:00 FIQ: [hdf-us] knavery [nd]: No details available 22:00 Yes, though actually I believe they just always know your location in vanilla (unless specifically confused by displacement). 22:00 or invis 22:01 <@luxidream> I think statue surfer means the bug where gaze attacks work through walls if you have astral eyesight 22:01 yeah or when monsters can cast spells at you 22:01 i encountered a similar effect when i used telepathy 22:02 monster vision/sense in vanilla is really weird 22:02 not really sure how it works but I think a monster theoretically knows where you are at all times 22:02 but when near pretends not to know depending on invis/displacement 22:02 "The titan casts a spell at you!" through a wall, from inside wizard's tower 22:03 and by vanilla I mean NH3-derivatives 22:03 not NH4 ones 22:04 dnh implements a number of different vision systems for monsters and players. 22:04 NH4 fixed that to? 22:04 yes, before dnh did 22:05 I recall suggesting you base your vision overhaul on nh4 22:05 before it was complete 22:05 not entirely sure how dnh's work atm 22:05 but I think similar to nh4? allthough with its own code 22:06 I think it consists of a series of hacks <_< 22:06 <[Demo]> catsight is stupid for the only race that gets it 22:06 well all monster-to-monster vision logic in nh4 handles both monsters and players consistently 22:06 <[Demo]> cause it means they effectively can't use lightsabers without serious vision impairment 22:07 all done in msensem in prop.c 22:07 it does not however handle general map vision or objects 22:07 dnh vision is not quite symmetrical around corners. 22:08 [Demo]: there are other weapons 22:08 There is a rough formula in vanilla that tells if two squares have line-of-sight to each other. 22:08 clear_path 22:08 <[Demo]> yah but only drow anas get catsight 22:08 I forget what vanilla uses it for, but dnh uses it for monster vision. 22:09 as does nh4 22:09 <[Demo]> and the best possible weapon for an Ana is lightsaber form annulus 22:09 <[Demo]> but light sabers emit light 22:09 however, clear_path in nh4 (maybe also dnh?) will use the more accurate/consistent vision arrays 22:09 if one of the coordinates are the player position 22:09 <[Demo]> which means the catsight can't see beyond the radius 1 light of the saber 22:10 Not sure the details, but I believe vision is different with regards to the player thanks to the vision array, yeah. 22:10 (in dnh) 22:10 Chris_ANG: see the top of nh4 clear_path 22:10 but yes 22:11 nh4 uses clear_path too 22:11 [Demo]: That just means that they end up using the same vision system humans do once they get a lightsaber. 22:11 <[Demo]> it's a shame no spirits play with vision 22:11 amon 22:11 orthos 22:12 <[Demo]> Yeah it's a sacrifice 22:12 <[Demo]> do they? 22:12 <[Demo]> Oh yeah they might hmm 22:12 yes...? 22:12 <[Demo]> Yeah shit 22:12 amon gives perfect sight 22:12 <[Demo]> Oh well I'm gonna sleep now 22:12 I should do more with the vision. But yeah, those two do. 22:12 orthos xray 22:12 see you 22:13 <[Demo]> echolocation would be neat 22:13 dnh has it 22:13 for bats 22:13 <[Demo]> I mean on a spirit 22:14 Chris_ANG: I forgot, does amon and orthos synergize? 22:15 letting you ignore orthos' taboo 22:16 Yeah, if memory serves. 22:17 * Chris_ANG checks 22:17 Yeah. 22:18 cool 22:18 [hdf-us] [nd] knavery (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 333 points, T:1062, killed by a bat 22:28 -!- StatueSurfer has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:32 -!- Alisa21 has joined #hardfought 22:32 Who want fuck me? I'm naked now, here - http://2018sexxx.com 22:38 [hdf-us] [nh4] GAME&WATCH (Luxidream) (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 268296 points, T:54482, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/nethack4/dumplog/2018-01-11%2003%3A38%3A15%2C%20GAME%26WATCH-Wiz-Orc-Fem-Cha%2C%20ascended.txt 22:40 <@mtf> Well that's a fun ad 22:40 nice 22:40 congrats Luxidream! 22:41 -!- Alisa21 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:41 <@mtf> Oh yea, grats @luxidream =) 22:42 <@luxidream> thanks! 22:44 <@luxidream> that's orc wizard $15 22:44 <@luxidream> #15 22:48 @mtf so how do we make some changes to the bot here 22:48 raisse had a good point 22:50 <@mtf> Well, its running on my box, not entirely sure what it's written in but its pretty configurable. I I honestly haven't managed it much myself, @i⌠am⌠shpingle has done most of the work 22:50 <@mtf> What do we want to change? 22:50 name of the bot 22:50 something short 22:51 <@mtf> Whadya wanna call it? Any suggestions? 22:51 RLD 22:51 <@mtf> That's pretty good 22:52 or Bob (thats a close second) 22:52 :P 22:52 !who 22:52 bug_sniper: [hdf-us] k2 [nh4] Luxidream [nh4] Menche [nd] krm26 [nd] 22:52 bug_sniper: [hdf-eu] No current players 22:52 <@mtf> Ill look into it a bit later and see if I can configure it how we want it 22:52 ok thx 22:53 <@mtf> Hoping I can name it on a channel by channel basis 22:56 ARGH 22:57 two trapdoors in a row and suddenly I'm on Dlvl:6 on turn 12 22:59 heh i fell all the way to the Soko entrance 23:00 [hdf-us] [nd] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) genocided class L, on T:38292 23:02 [hdf-us] [nd] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) genocided class ;, on T:38293 23:10 Menche: at least it's not as bad as falling all the way to the Castle :) 23:10 from a *single* trapdoor 23:10 <@luxidream> maybe you want to fall to castle 23:10 <@luxidream> don't need to dig for victory anymore if you fall the whole way 23:10 DfV dream, I guess 23:13 howdy 23:13 how much work is it to level drain Rodney and then pacify him? 23:14 just found this in the wiki :) 23:14 lvl drain 23:14 first unihorn! 23:14 <@luxidream> probably need stormbringer 23:15 <@luxidream> since drain life would actually damage him 23:16 might be a fun wizard mode experiment for a slow day at work. 23:17 -!- Announcy has joined #hardfought 23:17 -!- bhaak has joined #hardfought 23:17 [hdf-us] [nd] Menche (Sam Hum Mal Law), 1234 points, T:1643, killed by a gold golem 23:17 RIP 23:18 should've E'd again 23:19 [hdf-us] [nd] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed +2 t-shirt", on T:39016 23:19 [hdf-us] [nh4] tizakit (Sam Hum Mal Law), 50092 points, T:14023, killed by a soldier ant 23:20 <@luxidream> is today samurai day or something 23:20 every game I play I learn a little more... if that didn't happen... I'd lose my mind 23:22 <@luxidream> hachi 23:22 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/400474774440247317/400867100870049802/hachi.png 23:22 <@luxidream> what happened to you?! 23:24 bouquet: aw, I thought quest nemeses were pacifiable, but apparently not. 23:30 [hdf-us] [nd] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) wished for "magic marker", on T:39065 23:34 -!- RLdiscord has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34 -!- RLdiscord has joined #hardfought 23:34 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v RLdiscord] by ChanServ 23:50 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit]