00:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] asdlka (Nob Vam Fem Cha), 4475 points, T:3000, quit 00:21 -!- rumflump has joined #hardfought 00:22 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 00:30 -!- DrakeMarshall has quit [Quit: *poof*] 01:13 [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Pri Syl Fem Cha) entered the Sokoban zoo, on T:7260 02:02 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 02:14 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 02:21 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:27 -!- StatueSurfer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:18 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 03:24 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:32 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 03:32 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 03:42 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 03:57 The voice of Susanowo thunders: "Use my gift wisely!" 03:58 * Tangles ponders on the wisdom of using Grimtooth at all. 04:22 hey it, uh... lets you know when elves are nearby! 04:22 StatueSurfer: Message from FIQ at 2018-01-03 08:06 EST: magical equipment has an object property or several 04:22 okay thanks 04:22 the only thing i discovered on that particular run was that it wasn't reflection 04:42 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:43 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:45 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 04:45 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 04:47 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 04:47 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 04:56 [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Pri Syl Fem Cha) were chosen to steal souls for your god's glory!, on T:8723 04:57 finally! 04:57 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:07 -!- StatueSurfer has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:13 Tangles: The wording! 05:13 Tangles: for HIS god's glory 05:35 -!- rumflump has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:06 -!- rumflump has joined #hardfought 06:33 WAS chosen, and for HER god's glory because the character is Fem and the game doesn't now about the player. 06:33 -!- nikheizen has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:33 s/now/know/ 06:34 of course the wording is meant as "you were chosen ... for your god's glory" but inserting the name makes it third person 06:50 [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Pri Syl Fem Cha) entered the Rogue tribute level, on T:10398 07:08 raisse: Yeah I think the livelogging in the NH4 variants was added to some existing code that generates messages for some other purpose. I looked at it in fiqhack a while back. 07:32 morning 07:35 <[Demo]> man I had an awful dream I had to fix a chainsaw running a lightweight linux distro off a full size sd card running fourk but the hardware worked just fine and it was fourk that was broken and the customer and my boss were being angry that I couldn't do anything about it 07:36 ... 07:38 lol 07:40 <[Demo]> and I ended up talking to jonadab about it and the issue was in a dream mechanic he'd added where certain roles and races would dream certain things when they had restful sleep and he'd added a dreamer role. the issue was it would error and trigger the nh4 crash catching code wrong and roll the save back several thousand turns or sometimes just a few 07:41 @4k?elder dragon 07:41 elder dragon ~3~ silver dragon (D) | Lvl: 16 | Diff: 0 | Spd: 10 | Res: cold | Confers: nothing | MR: 30 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: -1 | Attacks: 3d9 breath cold, 3d8 bite physical, 1d6 claw physical, 1d6 claw physical | Alignment: 4 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, flies, thick hide, oviparous, seeinvis, fairy, tracks scents 07:41 [hdf-us] [dyn] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 768 points, T:11677, killed by an invisible plains centaur 07:41 @4k?elder silver dragon 07:41 No such monster. 07:42 something is summoning nasties at the castle 07:43 the monster function doesnt support fourk 07:43 err 07:44 well apparently it does 07:44 nm 07:44 @?help 07:44 help ~2~ elf (@) | Lvl: 10 | Diff: 12 | Spd: 12 | Res: sleep | Confers: sleep | MR: 2 | Generates: special | AC: 10 | Attacks: 1d8 weapon physical | Alignment: -3 | Flags: omnivore, seeinvis, nopoly, infravisible 07:44 <[Demo]> heh 07:44 <[Demo]> I'm curious how it works 07:45 @ghjgjhg? 07:45 ok 07:45 @fh?orc 07:45 github says it should https://github.com/UnNetHack/pinobot/commit/6284dd10d9e975d988f173483a297c9b7105cffc 07:46 <[Demo]> rn dnh is bugged and grey dragon had an MV flag where an MB flag should be and so actually corresponds with MB_CHILL 07:46 yeah i was looking at bot commands, fourk isnt listed 07:46 <[Demo]> @d?gray dragon 07:46 gray dragon (D) | Lvl: 15 | Diff: 20 | Spd: 9 | Res: magic | Confers: nothing | MR: 20 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: -4 | Attacks: 4d10 breath magic missile, 3d8 bite physical, 3d4 claw physical, 3d4 claw physical | Alignment: 4 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, flies, thick hide, oviparous, seeinvis 07:46 maybe it needs updating since may 2016 07:46 <[Demo]> Ok that's wrong 07:46 <[Demo]> it doesn't see invisible 07:46 <[Demo]> it freezes your stomach 07:55 @4k?gryphon 07:55 gryphon ~3~ Archon (A) | Lvl: 19 | Diff: 0 | Spd: 16 | Res: fire cold sleep shock poison | Confers: nothing | MR: 80 | Generates: dungeons | AC: -6 | Attacks: 2d4 weapon physical, 2d4 weapon physical, 2d6 gaze blind, 1d8 claw physical, 4d6 cast spell | Alignment: 15 | Flags: flies, regenerates, seeinvis, nopoly, stalker, infravisible 07:56 yeah that really does not work. 08:11 Tangles: because the bot is outdated 08:11 only slex is recently updated 08:14 -!- nht has quit [Quit: nht] 08:25 heh, one of the t-shirt messages is "They Might Be Storm Giants" 08:25 <[Demo]> heh 09:08 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:12 Oh, is the Pinobot YAML out of date for Fourk? 09:12 There's a #spoilers wizmode command that generates a new one (along with the HTML spoilers). 09:13 <[Demo]> jonadab fix fourk so it works on iot chainsaws 09:15 I really only support POSIX systems (and, to some extent, MS Windows). 09:16 <[Demo]> idk if u have any sort of log but i had an awful dream about 4k 09:17 Yes, I read that in backscroll. 09:38 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 09:38 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 09:58 which IOT are you talking about? 10:00 rumflump: It's probably not a real model of chainsaw. Dreams are weird. 10:03 [hdf-us] [dyn] hothraxxa (Wiz Orc Mal Cha), 5675 points, T:5048, killed by a giant beetle 10:11 what will all the lumberjacks do when we have automated IoT chainsawing? :P 10:15 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:15 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 10:22 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 10:34 Have you seen those giant multi-chainsaw hanging booms that they drag from helecopters for trimming the edges of wooded areas near power lines and highways and stuff? 10:45 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 10:58 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 11:23 -!- bouquet_ has joined #hardfought 11:25 -!- bouquet_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 11:49 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:18 [hdf-us] [un] Demo (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 2989 points, T:1142, killed by a dart, in hoh mode 12:23 -!- Menche_ has joined #hardfought 12:26 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:27 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 12:27 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 12:30 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 12:57 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 13:20 -!- hothraxxa_ has joined #hardfought 13:21 [hdf-us] [4k] SCURSCUM THE 999th (Luxidream) (Tou Scu Mal Neu) entered the Minetown temple, on T:640 13:21 -!- hothraxxa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:22 -!- hothraxxa_ is now known as hothraxxa 13:22 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v hothraxxa] by ChanServ 13:26 -!- narukaze has joined #hardfought 13:26 Hello. 13:26 Hello narukaze, Welcome to #hardfought 13:26 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 13:27 trying to view an email in plaintext, found this article 13:27 https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-send-a-message-in-plain-text-from-gmail-1171963 13:27 top image doesn't really fit with the content of the article, it's a picture of somebody's nethack game at a presentation? 13:27 found it amusing 13:28 -!- rikersan has quit [Client Quit] 13:29 <[Demo]> whoa i wanna play nethack on a projector now 13:31 <[Demo]> why cant there be like a yearly nethackcon where ppl sit in a conference room and watch someone like adeon play on the big screen or projector 😛 13:39 [Demo]: I think it would be cool to use projectors to continuously play NetHack ttyrecs on the walls of a room. 13:40 Maybe in a residential living room, or maybe in a restaurant or something themed for tech geeks. 13:41 Also, it'd be neat to rig up xscreensaver to show live games from NetHack servers. 13:43 <[Demo]> oh yeah 13:46 if anyone projects any of my ttyrecs, please edit them to remove all the stupid moves 13:47 bonus: much shorter ttyrecs 13:47 [hdf-us] [nd] bouquet (Bar Hum Fem Neu) polymorphed her first item, on T:38805 13:47 Adeon did in fact go to the last roguelikes celebration and speedrun in front of an audience. 13:50 [hdf-us] [un] narukaze (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1147 points, T:2133, killed by a black pudding 13:50 Dang. 13:51 someone needs to make the nethack documentary, along the lines of king of kong and ecstasy of order 13:52 hothraxxa: not a documentary but https://nhqdb.alt.org/?2253 13:53 * hothraxxa chuckles 14:03 [hdf-us] [un] narukaze (Val Dwa Fem Law), 2222 points, T:3000, poisoned by a rotted kobold corpse 14:04 -!- narukaze has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:10 -!- oh6_ has joined #hardfought 14:10 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v oh6_] by ChanServ 14:15 w00t! floating eye leaves a corpse and drops a towel 14:18 -!- khoR has quit [Quit: Khor vanishes in a puff of logic.] 14:18 -!- tungtn has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 14:18 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Quit: Never put off till tomorrow, what you can do the day after tomorrow] 14:20 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 100247 points, T:29542, petrified by a cockatrice 14:20 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 8 points, T:92, killed by a water moccasin 14:21 [hdf-us] [un] Delraven (Ran Orc Mal Cha), 3754 points, T:3157, killed by a snow ant 14:27 [hdf-us] [4k] SCURSCUM THE 999th (Luxidream) (Tou Scu Mal Neu) entered the Sokoban zoo, on T:5120 14:28 [hdf-us] [4k] groovejumper (Wiz Syl Fem Cha) received advice from The Oracle, on T:1965 14:28 [hdf-us] [nd] bouquet (Bar Hum Fem Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:43263 14:30 <[Demo]> "You hit Berith! Your tentacles suck Berith. You grab, but cannot hold onto Berith's blood dripping helmet!" yey 14:39 -!- tungtn has joined #hardfought 14:39 -!- khoR has joined #hardfought 14:43 -!- K2-work has joined #hardfought 14:45 [hdf-us] [sp] mightyquinn (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 820 points, T:1426, killed by a wererat 14:45 !tell K2 fiqhack updated 14:45 Will do, FIQ! 14:45 ok 14:50 jonadab: I think dtype had something like that in mind 14:50 automatically playback games from people in nao on youtube live or whatnot 14:51 yeah I tried to get elronnd to finish up some java for that 14:51 if I could get it to batch convert on aws lambda or something I'd push videos 14:54 [hdf-us] [nd] bouquet (Bar Hum Fem Neu) had Vorpal Blade bestowed upon her by Crom, on T:46070 14:57 <[Demo]> how slexy is an artifact aols? im trying to not be slexy but thinking about it it kind of seems slexy 15:01 [hdf-us] [fh] Saraswati (Oneiron) (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 28988 points, T:2288, killed by a large cat, while praying 15:16 I remember Elronnd had something working... he abandon it? 15:17 [hdf-us] [nd] HotSauce (Arc Gno Mal Neu), 169 points, T:578, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted coyote 15:27 <[Demo]> hmm i found evidence that it is wrong for fiqhack soldiers to be so good with wands 15:27 no doubt 15:27 <[Demo]> https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/blob/NetHack-3.6.0/src/makemon.c#L767 15:27 <[Demo]> that comment 15:27 i've gone round and round with FIQ about this several times 15:27 your average soldier should not be skilled in anything involving magic 15:28 an LT or CPT, sure i could see that 15:28 but not a grunt foot solider or even a SGT 15:28 <[Demo]> yeah that would be a bit less crazy 15:29 [hdf-us] [4k] groovejumper (Wiz Syl Fem Cha) entered the Sokoban zoo, on T:6236 15:29 -!- rumflump has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:30 <[Demo]> do eggs use corpse age to determine when to blast? 15:34 [hdf-us] [fh] Living Salt Shaker (Luxidream) (Ran Orc Mal Cha) were chosen to steal souls for the glory of Mars, on T:11674 15:37 [Demo]: if you with "blast" mean "hatch", they use a timer 15:37 a timer is a general purpose thing nethack has, notoriously poorly understood due to the relevant code being quite awkward 15:38 a timer is also what determines when corpses rot away 15:38 completely 15:38 (but not their general rotness, age is used for that) 15:39 [Demo]: soldiers are skilled wand users because I wanted to make the threat of skilled wand skill actually exist latergame 15:40 they are by far the most common lategame monster that is able to generate with wands 15:40 if I reduced their wand skill to basic, it would pretty much remove the presence of skilled wand users completely until a sudden spike at sanctum/astral 15:41 which I don't want 15:41 and K2-work 15:41 regarding wands, I see them as the nethack fantasy equavilent of a gun 15:42 which is the reason I concluded that they should be skilled at using them 15:47 so an idea then 15:48 place a few wizard types in with the soldiers in their barracks, give them the wands 15:48 <[Demo]> war-mages 15:48 bingo 15:49 that involves creating monsters 15:49 theres already mages in game 15:49 not of the appropriate level 15:49 that isn't of the letter L 15:50 <[Demo]> war-archons 15:50 <[Demo]> totally fair 15:51 -!- nht has quit [Quit: nht] 15:51 [hdf-us] [nd] HotSauce (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 292 points, T:848, killed by a fox 15:52 ok I will put archons in with the soldiers 15:52 if people complain I will redict them to [Demo] and K2-work 15:52 SWEET 15:53 K2-work: FIQHack updated btw 15:53 yeah i saw your msg 15:53 what did you update? 15:55 I pushed a small fix so that loading saves that was in the middle of an old container management action wouldn't crash 15:55 and merged replay update 15:55 you edited gnumakefile again 15:56 yes, I added logreplay.c 15:56 to the compilation process 15:56 i'll update when i get home 15:56 so i'm not distracted 15:56 ok 15:59 [hdf-us] [4k] groovejumper (Wiz Syl Fem Cha), 18375 points, T:8118, killed by a giant beetle 16:01 -!- rumflump has joined #hardfought 16:05 jonadab: pinobot is essentially never updated unless someone manages to annoy me enough to make me do it 16:05 jonadab: so yeah fourk is probably out of date 16:06 get very good at annoying people 16:06 and use the annoying skills on me 16:06 Adeon: that sounds rather destructive 16:07 why would anyone want to annoy someone into doing something as their primary strategy? 16:07 don't question my wisdom 16:07 sounds like a good way to get the person to tell them to fuck off 16:07 and end up /ignore'd or similar 16:07 it's also not nice 16:16 [hdf-us] [4k] tiza (tizakit) (Val Hum Fem Neu), 1053 points, T:542, quit 16:23 -!- DrakeMarshall has joined #hardfought 16:28 -!- DrakeMarshall has quit [Client Quit] 16:35 [hdf-us] [fh] tizakit (Val Dwa Fem Law), 13874 points, T:785, quit 16:59 -!- DrakeMarshall has joined #hardfought 17:01 -!- Crawldragon has joined #hardfought 17:05 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 17:07 Beholder: messages? 17:19 -!- bouquet has joined #hardfought 17:21 I got vorpal blade as a gift. I've been dualing firebrand and a silver sabre. I know the dmg is less with vorpal, but is the decaptiation 5% worth using it instead of firebrand? 17:22 I imagine the satisfaction of decapitating enemies is nice, though. 17:23 vorpy normally isn't worth it but it's fun 17:23 bouquet: vorpal blade won't destroy potions and scrolls in monster inventory, so there's that. 17:24 there used to be (maybe still is?) a hilarious bug with it in vanilla which relied on throwing it under certain circumstances, which is also fun but normally not worth it 17:24 Right, I think the fact that it only instakills _if it hits_ makes it not actually that useful to do, particularly since if it misses, a monster can then pick it up and wield it. 17:25 But yes, that bug is Hall of Fame material, IMO. 17:25 yes, and the bug gets cancelled if you make a melee attack 17:25 At least I have it instead of an archon or angel. 17:25 so either you need a backup ranged weapon or to set the bug up again every time 17:26 bouquet: Yes, there's also that. 17:26 but yes, having Vorpy is nice because you can put it in your bag, or even destroy it, and know it won't be used against you 17:26 ais523: Unless it's FIQHack, in which case random monsters can be generated with vorpal-property weapons. 17:26 what is the vorpal bug 17:26 [hdf-us] [nd] bouquet (Bar Hum Fem Neu) entered Gehennom, on T:46399 17:26 was 17:27 deadnoob: if you decapitate someone with vorpy, then until the next time you make a melee attack, it'll behead anything you hit with it 17:27 this typically implies throwing it because melee attacking with it would cancel the bug 17:27 deadnoob: It has to do with scope being incorrect for the variable used to hold the damage dice roll. 17:27 yasi: vorpal boomerang 17:27 Ouch. 17:27 jonadab: this reminds me, are we recording the hall of fame anywhere? it should probably be on the wiki 17:28 ais523: Somebody else here was asking about that. IMO, a page on the wiki is reasonable. 17:28 jonadab: not true 17:28 both oh6 and i found that vorpy would stop after a while 17:28 vorpal doesn't generate 17:28 FIQ: It wasn't variable scope? 17:28 Oh, that. 17:28 Ah. 17:28 we never established what the circumstances were 17:28 jonadab: I can't even remember where the existing hall of fame is listed 17:29 FIQ: That... is probably for the best :-) 17:29 I have the old one from trac but IIRC there were new entries since 17:29 jonadab: it used to be able to 17:29 I disabled it before anyone was hit by it 17:29 (for once) 17:29 ais523: Almost certainly new ones since. Such as the Fourk "post-Medusa maze-with-minotaur bones on DL2" bug. 17:29 I guess we'll have to find it in IRC logs 17:29 I can grep my logs for hall of fame if you want. 17:30 My logs are close to complete for the time period since I started using irssi. 17:30 good idea 17:30 jonadab: hmm, looks like there's a (partial?) version in the NH4 pastebin: http://nethack4.org/pastebin/hall-of-fame.txt 17:31 Hmm, I am guessing this hit from #evergreen.log is irrelevant :-) 17:31 Ah. 17:31 That can be a starting point. 17:32 jonadab: I regard the free DYWYPI issue as HoF-worthy 17:32 <[Demo]> we need a hall of fame wiki page 17:32 definitely 17:32 <[Demo]> yeah fiq definitely is 17:32 Bug Hall Of Fame is likely to work 17:33 FIQ: I'm not convinced that's sufficiently funny, which to me is a defining feature of Hall of Fame entries 17:33 ah 17:33 <[Demo]> hmm 17:33 <[Demo]> still pretty big 17:34 <[Demo]> its funny in that its like reverse start scumming 17:34 jonadab: the post-medusa DL2 bones issue was already documented in the wikipage 17:34 this could be because I used to quit-ID items all the time in the TAS 17:34 it was one of the easier ways 17:35 (Santa mode is probably even easier but it didn't exist to start off with) 17:35 except apparently it isn't TAS-only :P 17:35 in general I prefer to err on the side of not losing legitimate games than on the side of preventing cheating 17:35 in cases where getting the boundary exactly right is hard 17:36 ais523: the recoverquit thing? personally I just made it off-limit in favour of the "this apparently ended while you tried to play it, starting in replay instead" 17:37 recoverquit wasn't intended for general usage, really 17:37 and leave them in limbo until people complain 17:37 it was originally designed to fix a few specific games that had ended on nethack4.org without being properly xlogged, during junethack 17:38 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38 there should probably be a proper fix to what recoverquit tries to do, before junethack 17:38 -!- oh6_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:38 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 17:38 there should probably be a proper fix to what recoverquit tries to do, before junethack 17:38 people shouldn't really have a means to "hide" d eaths 17:38 *deaths 17:38 well the whole point was to make it possible for people to xlog each others' unterminated games 17:39 it's just the double disconnect that's a problem (and this is historically a hard case to deal with, NAO has problems with it too) 17:39 heh, apaprently I still was watching luxidream's game while it errored 17:39 Error: placing object typ 126 at bad position 79,21 17:39 was the exact error 17:39 when he killed off the guard 17:40 oh, hmm, is the guard deathdropping at sentinel location 17:40 looks liek it 17:40 <[Demo]> funny 17:40 *like 17:41 also, conversations bouncing around between #hardfought and ##nethack-variants is getting increasingly confusing, and possibly unfixable 17:41 I wouldn't mind moving the gateway here, but I know certain others would 17:42 indeed 17:43 ais523: btw, FIQHack now has NH4 watchmode running on (e)hdf 17:43 works well 17:43 even handles dynamic resizing since there's no ttyrec involved 17:44 sounds goodd 17:44 *good 17:44 what's the UI for it? 17:47 ais523: you can watch Luxidream on hdf right now to see 17:47 not sure what you mean with that question 17:47 it tries to mostly mimic dgl behaviour in launching/etc 17:48 ais523: results of my log search: http://jonadab.jumpingcrab.com/pastebin/950.txt 17:48 in watch menu: 17:48 b) Luxidream fh N/A 2018-01-04 22:07:38 11s 0 D2 17:48 N/A is the "terminal size" 17:48 upon choosing 17:48 it looks like this: http://home.fiq.se/watchmode.png 17:49 it uses your own UI config if logged in 17:49 if logged out, it uses the player's config, but you aren't allowed to edit it 17:49 I mean, how do you bring up the watch menu? 17:50 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:50 oh wow, NH4 minesflayers 17:50 http://home.fiq.se/watchmode_guest.png 17:50 ais523: oh, it's part of the normal dgl watch list 17:50 that was such an annoying bug to diagnose 17:50 not within the game 17:50 because minesflayers are meant to generate sometimes, even in vanilla, and all NH4 screwed up was the probablity 17:51 how do you diagonse a bug along the lines of "an event that's supposed to be very rare is merely rare"? 17:51 it's just part of the normal watch list: http://home.fiq.se/watchlist.png 17:51 ais523: that is tricky 17:51 btw, what does changing an engine option do while you're logged in and watching? it's obvious enough what changing an interface option does 17:52 ais523: the game already handles this appropriately 17:52 "new value for 'foo' rejected" 17:52 the message is a bit misleading 17:52 ah right, you just get an error 17:52 possibly 17:52 but it works 17:53 ais523: after all, this is just the existing NH4 watchmode which is used on N4O 17:53 yes 17:53 but tweaked somewhat to work in a dgamelaunch setting 17:53 but much of that code is daniel_t 17:53 so I didn't know what would happen 17:53 isn't watchmode a NH4 feature? 17:53 not in nitrohack at all? 17:53 sometimes people assume I'm an expert on the entirety of NH4 17:54 and yes, watchmode is NH4 but options setting is daniel_t (and later, NH4 devs other than me) 17:54 ah 17:54 in particular options setting has its own API 17:55 heh, just realized (by watching lux as a guest) that he uses classic_status 17:55 I personally always preferred the NH4 status bar :P 17:55 <[Demo]> who doesn't? 17:55 [Demo]: I don't 17:56 <[Demo]> oh yeah im sure a lot of people dont but i figure most non nh4 variant development related ppl that orignated from nh3 probably use it 17:56 I invented the NH4 status bar when the NH3 status bar either killed or almost killed my character during a tournament 17:56 it's just not clear enough 17:57 so I put some effort into making an actually good one 17:57 that's something I considered writing a blog post about, how to make useful HP bars 17:57 lots of games get this wrong 17:57 it's basically a superior version of the nitrohack statusbar 17:57 (one of the main characteristics of the NH4 bar is that it's the only coloured thing in that area of the screen, so you don't have to be looking at it to know how high it is) 17:57 I have no idea how daniel_t did it but he somehow manages to have just as much information as the NH4 status bar while taking up more space 17:57 probably the huge bars 17:59 [hdf-us] [fh] Living Salt Shaker (Luxidream) (Ran Orc Mal Cha) wished for "uncursed fireproof magic marker", on T:35000 18:00 <[Demo]> i like the thing when ur screen turns colors when ur gonna die 18:00 <[Demo]> thats my favorite part of nh4 18:00 I stole it from Pokémon Mystery Dungeon 18:00 heh, had the feeling it was from there :) 18:00 but many players are missing out on it entirely because they play in 80×24 and there's no room for it there 18:00 but it doesn't blink 18:01 I could make it blink but that would probably be overkill 18:01 PMD also does a force-More three turns in a row when you start starving (in addition to blinking the frame pink and yellow) 18:01 that's almost certainly overkill too 18:01 [hdf-us] [fh] Living Salt Shaker (Luxidream) (Ran Orc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fixed greased wand of polymorph", on T:35018 18:01 although it's much more effective than a single "you need to deal with this" would be 18:02 I tweaked some of the frame colors in FIQHack 18:02 allthough I know ais523 disagrees with some of my choices 18:05 <[Demo]> my favorite part of fiqhack is not dying lategame 18:06 you mean, it makes it easier to not die, or it's more interesting to try to not die? 18:06 I played FIQHack up to beyond Minetown and Sokoban recently, I might resume it some time; it felt pretty much like vanilla up to that point 18:06 (the order is: black (watchmode/replaymode), red (1/7hp), bright magenta (delayed instadeath), orange (1/3hp), magenta (fainting), brown (weak), green (minor zombie disease), yellow (2/3hp), gray) 18:06 apart from some zombification stuff 18:07 FIQ: right, my main concern here is related to a frame change, which is kind of a big deal sort of warning, when you've "only" lost 33% of your max HP 18:07 that might be correct with NetHack's current combat formula but implies that the combat mechanics are broken 18:07 33% means you lost a major chunk of HP 18:07 just as a highlight "you know you're taking damage, right?" 18:07 but not an immediate concern 18:07 <[Demo]> yeah i like that cause it alerts to me im being a dumbass 18:08 ais523: fiqhack is mostly vanilla with UI convenience earlygame 18:08 FIQ: I normally assume that the health bar color is enough for that 18:08 one suggestion I've seen, which I'm not sure I like, is to change the color of the player's @ as a more minor warning like that 18:09 I think it might work better in a game with fewer monsters 18:09 people talk about putting a bug hall of fame page on the wiki, but nobody actually did? is someone currently creating it or should I? 18:09 other hall of fame bugs: bobble hat in devnull, 18:09 aosdict: I was considering creating it but would be happy to leave it to you, saves me some effort 18:09 <[Demo]> someone do it 18:09 see http://jonadab.jumpingcrab.com/pastebin/950.txt for previous discussions on IRC, http://nethack4.org/pastebin/hall-of-fame.txt for salvaged text from the previous location 18:10 [hdf-us] [fh] Living Salt Shaker (Luxidream) (Ran Orc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed spellbook of identify", on T:35471 18:10 <[Demo]> or wait no aosdict make it yeah its your quest 18:10 my quest? 18:11 are you my quest leader? :P 18:11 ais523: I have bene intentionally staying away from adding any major large scale content in FIQHack 18:11 to make it mostly feel like a more polished vanilla experience 18:12 <[Demo]> no dont kill me the stairs wont open for you 18:12 i.e. I only added (baby) shimmering dragons monster-wise, one potion and some spellbooks object-wise, and no new dungeon branches/etc at all 18:12 FIQ: I did similar in NH4 but for a different reason: I believed there was a trend of variant developers making changes without properly considering the balance implications 18:12 let it snow... 18:12 K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-01-04 14:45 EST: fiqhack updated 18:12 <[Demo]> if ur variant isnt basically slex ur not cool 18:13 and decided to err in the opposite direction, of not making a gameplay change without a lot of evidence that the balance wouldn't be screwed up or at least wouldn't become more player-hostile 18:13 <[Demo]> oh yeah got a couple inches of snow down here, k2 are you getting slammed? 18:13 I think 3.6.0 vindicated this approach :-P 18:13 K2: how's the snow? 18:13 ais523: heh 18:13 as it happens, I /did/ make a mistake, but it only affected pacifists 18:13 and we worked out a fix eventually 18:13 some people consider FIQHack unbalanced even though purely content-wise I've been pretty conservative :-) 18:13 it started a few hours ago [Demo] but the snow hasnt really picked up until about an hour ago or so 18:13 mostly in terms of wand rebalance 18:14 and create monster 18:14 even apparently minor changes can have large implications sometimes 18:14 got the kid home so i'm good 18:14 FIQ: well you can make big *balance* changes by tweaking only a few numbers or formulas 18:14 they're saying wind chills tomorrow between -30 and -45 F tonight and tomorrow 18:14 big balance changes don't have to be big code changes 18:14 <[Demo]> oh jesus 18:14 aosdict: I can add tons of objects/monsters without touching the code otherwise at all 18:15 Adding that is easy 18:15 But why would I 18:15 FIQ: that's not a problem that ever seems to have bothered slex 18:15 I'm just saying that adding new content is not a prerequisite for altering game balance. 18:15 aosdict: Right 18:15 Or vice versa. 18:16 Just that I've tried to be careful when it comes to rebalancing things 18:16 by the way, how much have people played with the early-game gold nerf in 3.6.1? 18:16 I disagreed with that quite strongly but if there's evidence that it isn't harmful maybe I should just drop the issue 18:16 ais523: plenty of people in here play 3.6.1 18:17 raisse and elenmirie in particular plays a lot 18:17 my problem is that a) it makes starting gold for Hea/Tou disproportionately powerful to other classes, b) it makes nonrandom sources of gold (credit cloning, etc.) more powerful 18:17 Half of my own proposals are things that would be mostly internal, and add nothing visible to the game, but they would be rather significant changes to how the game works 18:17 ais523: I actually consider that a good thing @ hea/tou 18:17 <[Demo]> ive just gone insane 18:17 ais523: I think paxed was specifically trying to address a) 18:17 It means that their starting gold is actually a notable feature of their class 18:17 unlike now 18:17 where it only matters for like the first 5-10 dungeon levels 18:17 well Tou is weird in that respect 18:18 in that starting gold really didn't matter much when any character could luck into the same amount on the floor 18:18 but it's the first 5-10 dungeon levels we're really talking about here 18:18 in particular, pre-Oracle/Mines 18:18 come to think of it, the Sokoban zoo is probably highly relevant in the discussion but it's not something I'd been thinking about 18:18 people don't go to Sokoban for the gold, but it's there 18:19 ais523: btw, do you think using sacks to steal is too strong? 18:19 Tou is notable for having a starting inventory that helps them tackle challenges that most other roles find hard to overcome in the early game, but the resource is finite. 18:19 I basically never did it until recently 18:19 and realized how ridiculously potent it is 18:19 Darts, food, gold. They all do this. 18:19 it allows you to trivially clear a lot of types of shops 18:19 notably, scroll and potion ones 18:19 FIQ: IIRC vanilla Slash'EM nerfed it, and they may well have had reason to 18:19 just get a large cat 18:21 [hdf-us] [nd] bouquet (Bar Hum Fem Neu) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of genocide", on T:49355 18:21 ais523: what do you think of FIQHack's recent apron buff? 18:21 [hdf-us] [nd] bouquet (Bar Hum Fem Neu) performed her first genocide (class L), on T:49356 18:21 I like it but am mostly afraid of it being an overbuff 18:21 [hdf-us] [nd] bouquet (Bar Hum Fem Neu) genocided class h, on T:49356 18:21 they were already indirectly buffed by giving immunities (rather than partial resistances) as part of the partial resistance change 18:21 I made them MC3 (from MC1) recently 18:22 to make people actually consider them 18:22 what did you change? just MC? 18:22 as a valid option 18:22 [hdf-us] [nd] bouquet (Bar Hum Fem Neu) wished for "magic marker", on T:49360 18:23 that might well be an overbuff 18:23 I think part of the problem with MC is that it doesn't really have competing slots 18:24 at least assuming that we aren't using dtsund-DSM, the cloak slot is always going to be the slot you use for it in practice 18:24 (with dtsund-DSM, draconic mithril is a plausible alternative) 18:25 <[Demo]> remove MC entirely 18:25 <[Demo]> and balance attacks that would suffer balance issues with its removal 18:25 ais523: basically, as a stopgap until I figure out how to properly fix MC 18:25 I've messed with MC on cloaks, mostly by increasing it 18:25 [Demo]: I'd prefer to limit its application rather than removing it 18:25 maybe splitting it into multiple abilities 18:25 just so that people don't ignore the cloak's actual properties 18:26 just because it happens to have a bad MC 18:26 FIQ: right, buffing things that are already powerful (MC in this case) can fix balance problems by making it an assumed/required thing rather than something that distinguishes between options 18:27 also FIQHack already nerfed MC somewhat 18:27 it no longer works on drain life or elemental attacks 18:27 (but will still protect against item destruction for elemental attacks) 18:28 <[Demo]> how does one figure out if change is balanced? 18:28 you do the change 18:28 hope your variant is actually played 18:28 see what happens 18:28 that is the easiest way :D 18:29 and hope that more than just people like Luxidream plays it 18:30 because he seems to be able to consistently ascend everything 18:30 the majority of FIQHack ascensions is by him I think 18:30 <[Demo]> heh 18:30 !asc Luxidream 18:30 FIQ: Luxidream has ascended 24 times in 755 games (3.18%): nh:1 (4.35%), nd:4 (10.53%), nh4:3 (25.00%), un:1 (1.11%), fh:15 (15.31%) 18:30 <[Demo]> oh wait 18:30 <[Demo]> i dont want it to be balanced, i want it to be fun 18:30 yes, IMO fun is more important than balance 18:31 <[Demo]> thats why i like crazy power crawl 18:31 <[Demo]> and explosions 18:31 <[Demo]> (not fiqhack wand explosions that hit me though) 18:32 heh, FIQHack is no longer the 2nd most played variant after dnethack by amount of games 18:32 it's 3rd 18:33 <[Demo]> thats what happens when you dont let them die early game and kill em late game 18:33 FIQ: which variant is in between? 18:33 UnNetHack 18:33 [Demo]: yep, that would almost definitely be why 18:34 FIQHack games has a much higher average turncount 18:34 neither unnethack or dnethack has an ascension within the last 100 games 18:34 FIQHack has 5 18:34 [hdf-us] [nd] bouquet (Bar Hum Fem Neu) bribed Asmodeus with 784 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:50043 18:34 all but 1 of them by the same person :P 18:36 [Demo]: also, there's a lot more people who has recent FIQHack games 18:36 a single person has 58/100 of dnethack's last games, for example 18:38 what proportion of vanilla games are startscums? 18:38 acehack is probably best in that respect, you can startscum without making xlog entries 18:38 ais523: No idea. I am reading the scoreboard's recent games lists 18:38 It filters startscums already 18:39 https://scoreboard.xd.cm/recent.all.html (and variant tabs) 18:39 that was really controversial because people thought I was normalizing startscumming 18:40 [hdf-us] [nd] bouquet (Bar Hum Fem Neu) killed Juiblex, on T:50323 18:40 <[Demo]> startscumming is normal 18:40 ais523: did I mention that I was going to add an option where you can cause the game to re-roll for a certain item up to 1000 times 18:40 <[Demo]> should be a conduct to not 😛 18:40 the reason I didn't was purely technical 18:40 couldn't figure out how to best do it and maintain good RNG state 18:40 <[Demo]> ah damn 18:41 FIQ: add a starting inventory RNG, I guess 18:41 but I think there's no RNG slots left 18:41 but I don't really like that form of startscumming anyway 18:41 actually I could just reuse newt_pw_boost 18:41 it no longer exist in FIQHack since it's guranteed 18:41 also, are we seriously out of RNG slots? we used to have loads of spares 18:42 we do? 18:42 but the problem is that the blank space is at the end and the level gen RNGs expand into it 18:42 how can I check? 18:42 ais523: the level RNGs should be last 18:42 FIQ: take the number of defined RNGs, add the maximum number of level index numbers, subtract from the total number of RNGs 18:42 that's the number of spares 18:43 I guess I could just add RNGs after the level RNGs 18:43 if I needed to add new ones 18:43 without compromising existing games 18:44 <[Demo]> ok i kind of have a balance question 18:46 <[Demo]> https://i.imgur.com/ZKn9kWt.png does this seem like an ok thing to unlock the ability to summon and fight at lvl 12 if it drops sds that you can invoke for branchport? 18:49 tell chris to change "thinking" to "behaviour" 18:49 [Demo]: sds = silver dragon scales? 18:49 if so, yes 18:49 branchport isn't that powerful 18:50 it's mostly convenience 18:50 <[Demo]> its just such a big leap in gameplay style change for me 18:51 -!- Tangles has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:51 <[Demo]> I have no idea how to give eden reflection cause it doesnt seem to be a monster flag and I can't find where it is specially handled for silver dragons 18:52 now I'm wondering how the balance would work out if you could branchport into branches you hadn't visited 18:52 <[Demo]> badly probably? 18:53 -!- Tangles has joined #hardfought 18:53 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles] by ChanServ 18:54 [Demo]: perhaps not, going straight to Vlad's as a starting character is likely to get you killed, so I imagine people would rarely go to branches they hadn't "legitimately" unlocked anyway 18:55 <[Demo]> going straight to vlads is a pretty legit strategy if you want ww boots and an aols 18:56 <[Demo]> which anyone with branchport in vanilla could probably nearly handle 18:56 <[Demo]> enough to extract the aols and ww boots 18:56 @4k?ancient black dragon 18:56 No such monster. 19:03 say fiq, how come newts don't run away from my xl30 wizard? 19:03 or grid bugs 19:03 <[Demo]> they r 2 dumb 19:03 in the interests of leveling out player vs monster 19:04 i mean, i see a black dragon and i'm just xl10, i probably run away 19:04 <[Demo]> ur intelligent 19:04 <[Demo]> grid bugs r dumb little bugs on the floor 19:04 <[Demo]> now hobbits 19:04 <[Demo]> they best be running 19:04 ok i buy that 19:05 but i'm big and they're little, they should fear me 19:06 the grid bug tile is massive 19:06 so maybe they're large, just weak 19:06 also they know you can outrun them anyway, at least diagonally 19:06 <[Demo]> nah thats zoomed 19:07 hothraxxa: they're just animals 19:07 <[Demo]> dumb animals 19:07 i scare animals 19:07 besides, that's missing the point 19:08 what point? 19:08 that some monsters should avoid me 19:08 i mean, dragons already do in fh, right? 19:13 yep 19:13 well 19:13 if they consider their life in danger 19:18 [hdf-us] [fh] Living Salt Shaker (Luxidream) (Ran Orc Mal Cha) wished for "uncursed fixed magic marker", on T:40126 19:20 -!- deadnoob has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24 [hdf-us] [fh] Living Salt Shaker (Luxidream) (Ran Orc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fixed greased the master key of thievery", on T:40471 19:25 <[Demo]> ugh this is annyong 19:25 <[Demo]> i wanna give the guy a double lightsaber but I don't know how to do it 19:25 <[Demo]> like balance wise 19:35 -!- DrakeMarshall has quit [Quit: *poof*] 19:35 -!- DrakeMarshall has joined #hardfought 19:36 why isn't there a screen size for fh games? 19:38 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 19:44 I lost telepathy for murdering a shopkeep. What dlvl are my chance of finding a floating eye best? 19:56 -!- DrakeMarshall has quit [Quit: *poof*] 19:57 -!- DrakeMarshall has joined #hardfought 19:58 oh6: Fiqhack games no longer use ttyrecs for watching, so terminal size doesn't matter. They use nh4's replaymode instead. This means you can interact with the game while watching (look at inventory, dungeon overview, farlook things, etc), without interfering with the player. 20:00 whoa, funky 20:01 [hdf-us] [fh] Living Salt Shaker (Luxidream) (Ran Orc Mal Cha) averted death, on T:46526 20:01 [hdf-us] [fh] Living Salt Shaker (Luxidream) (Ran Orc Mal Cha) averted death, on T:46528 20:03 Tangles: watchmode, not replay 20:04 !tell K2 reminder that there is a fh update pending (since you cleared the earlier !telL) 20:04 Will do, FIQ! 20:04 yup 20:04 K2: Message from FIQ at 2018-01-04 20:04 EST: reminder that there is a fh update pending (since you cleared the earlier !telL) 20:04 *tell 20:04 i havent forgotten about you 20:04 ah you know, sorry 20:04 np 20:05 "boohoo K2 doesn't care, now I'm going to sit in a corner and cry" 20:05 lol 20:05 [hdf-us] [fh] Living Salt Shaker (Luxidream) (Ran Orc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed greased wand of death", on T:46731 20:11 K2: pushed an experimental enhancement for Gehennom (optional "challenge areas", mtf's suggestion, though I'm not sure my implementation is quite what he imagined). 20:16 wouldn't a greased wand of death be hard to aim 20:17 jonadab ok 20:18 -!- DrakeMarshall has quit [Quit: *poof*] 20:18 YASI: zapping a greased wand, you always have a chance to accidentally slip; this gives you a 1/10 chance of breaking the wand, 1/10 chance of hitting yourself, 1/10 chance for each of the eight directions. 20:18 -!- DrakeMarshall has joined #hardfought 20:20 nah, breaking the wand is a completely different movement 20:25 EPI: zapping a wand _always_ has a 1/20 chance of accidentally breaking it. 20:37 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:39 chance of breakage should be higher for balsa wands 20:40 jonadab / FIQ: Can I exercise wand skill by just zapping all my spare wands of make invisible at a wall, or do I need to actually make something invisible for it to count? 20:40 Tangles: Just the act of zapping exercises the skill. Even a wand of nothing will work. 20:41 [hdf-us] [fh] Living Salt Shaker (Luxidream) (Ran Orc Mal Cha) performed the invocation, on T:51928 20:41 It was either that, or handle it separately for each kind of wand, which would be error-prone. 20:41 Cool thanks. 20:50 -!- nikheizen has joined #hardfought 21:04 ok lets update some variants 21:05 school is closed tomorrow so i get to work from home. neat 21:07 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 21:07 <[Demo]> yey 21:12 NetHack Fourk updated (us and eu) 21:12 jonadab: have you given any thought to implementing FIQ's watchmode changes? 21:13 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 21:13 K2: I was waiting until the rate at which he finds bugs in it drops below one a day. 21:13 * K2 nods 21:13 And that took longer than expected, which makes me want to wait longer. 21:13 But yes, it seems like something I will definitely want long-term. 21:14 it's pretty neat 21:14 Right, the idea is quite sound. 21:14 I have to decide if it's worth cherry-picking a couple dozen commits now, though, as opposed to just getting it for free when I rebase. 21:14 jonadab: what do you mean? 21:14 and even though i havent tested it yet, i would imagine this would also cut down on server load 21:14 are you confusing watchmode with replaymode? 21:15 <[Demo]> just make sure it runs on the chainsaw 21:15 FIQ: Oh, maybe. 21:15 watchmode has been pretty much bug-free since implementation 21:15 Oh, hmm. 21:15 there has been *some* issues 21:15 I get the non-playing modes confused. 21:15 but it was one of the smoothest feature implementations I've seen 21:15 Hmm. 21:15 mostly because it already existed 21:15 I merely added some features to it 21:16 I might indeed be thinking of the watch mode stuff, as much as the replay mode stuff. 21:16 Or vice versa. 21:16 -!- Kontroll1r has joined #hardfought 21:16 jonadab: the replay mode stuff is probably what you're thinking of 21:16 it took forever to get anywhere near stable 21:16 [Demo]: We are recruiting windowport developers to work on the chainsaw port. 21:16 and only now am I actually ready to trial it in practice 21:17 I think of both watch and replay as "I am not actually playing this game, just looking at it." 21:18 I'm aware that it's two different modes, but I'm not sure _why_ it's two different modes. 21:18 uh 21:18 Unless it's just because one is currently caught up to what the player is doing right now, and the other isn't. 21:18 yes 21:18 That _seems_ like a minor point, philosophically. 21:18 watch mode is basically like play mode 21:18 not like replay mode at all 21:18 it's much closer to play mode 21:18 except, you know 21:19 the fact that you can't play 21:19 only watch 21:19 THAT seems like the really major difference, to me. 21:19 yeah but 21:19 replay mode is completely different 21:19 it lets you seek wherever you want in the save 21:19 going forward/backwards, going to specific turns, etc 21:19 -!- Kontroller has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:19 watch mode on the other hand 21:19 is just a "read-only" play mode 21:20 Also don't they both have that weird control scheme where left is back a turn and up is, umm, some number of turns, and a turn is actually not a turn, it's neutral turnstate, etc.? 21:20 no 21:20 that is replay mode 21:20 watch mode will just say that you can't do that 21:20 Ah. 21:20 Hmm. 21:20 just like any other non-zero-time command 21:20 "Command 'move' is unavailable while watching." 21:20 if I try to move in lux' game 21:20 Ah, interesting. 21:21 Perhaps I did not really understand what watch mode is then. 21:21 jonadab: have you ever tried to open the same game 2 times with different processes? 21:21 watch mode is basically like that 21:21 FIQ: Sure, I've done that. But those are both play mode. 21:21 except you can't interact with the save 21:21 And you can act in either. 21:21 in any editable way 21:21 in watchmode 21:22 Hmm. 21:22 FIQhack updated (us and eu) 21:22 but you can't go forward/backwards 21:22 or seeking turns 21:22 [hdf-us] [fh] Living Salt Shaker (Luxidream) (Ran Orc Mal Cha) entered the Planes, on T:53261 21:22 So how many commits are required for just the watch mode stuff then? 21:22 Let's say I punt replay mode to rebase. 21:22 But am potentially interested in watch mode nowish. 21:23 I could make a NH4 commit for it 21:23 that way ais523 could benefit from it as well 21:23 A single commit? 21:23 That would be... relatively easy, I would think. 21:23 is there a problem with this? 21:23 Especially as it's unlikely to have substantial conflicts. 21:23 basically I added most of watchmode a while back 21:24 then nothing for a while 21:24 Well, hmm, it'll create weird conflicts for _you_. 21:24 since dgl wasn't updated 21:24 Unless you do an ours merge or something. 21:24 then Tangles started working on things 21:24 to the point where it could be trialed 21:24 FIQ: when you're at a stopping point with jonadab, please explain how to use logreplay (no rush) 21:24 and I found some small issues as a result 21:24 K2: what do you mean? 21:24 logreplay is unrelated 21:24 right 21:24 FIQ: Yes, but he wants to know how to use it. 21:24 it's the file I added with the new replay mode stuff 21:25 how to... use it? 21:25 what for? 21:25 i am asking for an explanation: what is it, what does it do, etc 21:25 as i said, no rush 21:25 K2: oh 21:25 -!- bouquet has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25 please continue 21:25 ok 21:25 logreplay is just a new C file 21:25 where I added the new replay code 21:26 it works more like how NitroHack's replay mode works 21:26 [hdf-us] [fh] Living Salt Shaker (Luxidream) (Ran Orc Mal Cha) reached the Astral Plane, on T:53473 21:27 -!- bouquet has joined #hardfought 21:27 and creates regular in-memory complete saves, to avoid the serious perf issues of the NH4 replay mode 21:27 otherwise it works just like the NH4 replay mode 21:28 cool, but i meant please continue with jonadab. i didnt mean to interrupt 21:28 it adds better handling of save desyncs rather than "go to the end of the replay" 21:28 (sorry jonadab) 21:28 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has joined #hardfought 21:28 and in general makes replay mode actually usable 21:28 I'm not quite sure why you wanted to know how logreplay works, maybe I am misunderstanding your question 21:28 jonadab: as for watchmode 21:28 I can add the stuff needed for it 21:28 as a single commit 21:29 then do an ours merge on FIQHack's end 21:29 [hdf-us] [fh] Living Salt Shaker (Luxidream) (Ran Orc Mal Law), 261700 points, T:53528, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/fiqhack/dumplog/2018-01-05%2002%3A29%3A16%2C%20Living%20Salt%20Shaker-Ran-Orc-Mal-Law%2C%20ascended.txt 21:29 FIQ: If you think ais might merge it, that does make sense. 21:32 new replay mode is live on server now I see 21:32 I wonder how the CPU usage is for games without a million desyncs 21:32 -!- DrakeMarshall has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:33 How bad can it be? 21:33 ;-) 21:34 jonadab: main problem atm with new replaymode is the way it handles desyncs 21:34 it works OK from a technical standpoint 21:34 but atm it is rather wasteful CPU-wise 21:35 for example, if it needs to playback 1000 actions 21:35 and every 100-ish action desyncs 21:35 it would playback from turn 1 on each single desync, to get a good gamestate at these actions 21:35 rather than reusing the last gamestate after desync 21:36 (not turn 1 literally I mean, but the last binary save in the file) 21:40 Ah. 21:40 So it needs optimization for that case. 21:40 That seems not very bad, in the scheme of things. 21:41 jonadab: I mean, I fired up replaymode on luxidream's last modified game just now (since he's still on the fiqhack process) 21:41 it is an ancient game of his 21:41 the engine has deviated quite since then 21:42 and the replaymode can cope with this fine 21:42 it's just... slow, when creating new desync restore points 21:44 FIQ: how do i quit watching a FIQhack game now? 21:44 'q' no longer works 21:44 same as you always did 21:44 oh? it should 21:44 K2: S 21:44 that worked 21:45 hmm 21:45 but q should work too 21:45 but yeah q doesnt work 21:45 I must have broken something 21:45 one sec 21:45 Command 'drink' is unavailable while watching. 21:45 ugh... useless reflection. 21:46 fixed 21:46 I checked for drink 21:46 Tangles: Fourk was recently updated, I dunno if you were still playing when it was or not 21:46 [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Pri Syl Fem Cha), 24567 points, T:12663, killed by a death field 21:46 as intended 21:46 and I cahnged the command to... 21:46 drink 21:46 *changed 21:46 very useful command alias 21:46 K2: pushed a fix 21:47 k 21:47 K2: I was.... but not anymore :( 21:47 :/ 21:47 FIQhack updated (us and eu) 21:48 FIQ: still not working 21:48 That level looked interesting too... lots of monsters and traps and big piles of loot. 21:48 ? 21:48 it should 21:48 FIQ: still not working 21:48 same msg 21:49 oh 21:49 lemme start a new game 21:49 nope, no dice 21:49 heh. yeah "Command 'drink' is unavailable while watching.' 21:50 the whole situation in NH4 is confusing because the command that vanilla players think of as "save" is actually implemented as exiting the process (i.e. a quit) 21:50 and the command that they think of as "quit" is closer to an in-game action that kills the character in concept, but more or less completely broken in terms of implementation 21:51 I probably shouldn't have tried so hard to keep daniel_t's way of doing that, I assumed there was a reason for it at the time but in retrospect there probably isn't 21:51 K2: Fixed 21:51 k 21:51 I was doing command aliasing in a bad place 21:51 FIQ: Also Luxidream's extrainfo is stale for some reason. 21:52 oh... he's gone now. nvm. 21:52 FIQhack updated (us and eu) 21:52 Tangles: yes, I can't do anything about that 21:52 can confirm, fixed 21:53 ais523: there is no reason quit can't be an in-game command 21:53 save being special is somewhat reasonable 21:53 but quit should just be a regular game command 21:54 FIQ: I agree 21:54 special save, normal quit is what I've been leaning towards 21:54 the reason here is that quit kills the character so it can be handled by the normal game over code 21:54 fwiw the reason I alias quit in non-play is to not interfere with people's muscle memory for how to quit a watch process 21:54 er 21:54 *quaff 21:55 but if they have remapped quaff to something else 21:55 it wont work 21:55 can't do much about that 21:56 right 21:56 that's one of the fixes to the issue that I thought of but it seemed really arbitrary 21:56 I guess it's no more arbitrary than chatting to doors in AceHack 21:57 if only Hack's save system were better-designed, maybe we'd have been saving with Q all along 21:57 and the keybinding wouldn't have been confusing 21:57 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:57 after all, you use S to exit a game without affecting the save file if you're playing it, so it's logical for S to do the same thing if you're watching it 21:57 (whereas #quit while watching a game is clearly a bad idea as it affects the gamestate) 21:58 -!- bouquet has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:59 ais523: this is actually more on dgl than on hack 22:00 dgl q for quit, which isn't weird since dgl watchmode is just ttyplay, more or less 22:00 so I mapped drink to it to not mess with muscle memory 22:00 er 22:00 *I mapped drink to save 22:01 FIQ: well if save were Q all along then dgl would probably have adopted it as "stop watching" too 22:02 ah 22:02 right 22:04 I don't like the name "save" for S anyway because it a) implies something to people unaware of the game that isn't true, and b) isn't even an accurate technical description when using systems like 4.3save 22:06 -!- K2-work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06 -!- K2 is now known as K2-work 22:09 -!- Chris__ANG is now known as Chris_ANG 22:13 ais523: Honestly, I am not convinced that quit needs to exist at all. It's not like it's hard to cause the game to be over. 22:13 in NH4 derivatives, maybe not 22:13 what's your opinion on escape, btw? 22:14 ais523: speaking of escape, is there a good reason for esc to not be mapped to mainmenu? 22:14 it is a somewhat common mapping for such menus 22:14 ais523: I think I'd leave escape, for players who think getting out of the dungeon with a bunch of treasure is a good outcome. Which, it's a lot better than dying. 22:15 Whereas, quit is just giving up, which does not seem better than dying to me. 22:15 there are two good reasons: a) it's used to dismiss messages and binding to message-dismissal keys tends to cause a lot of misinterpreted inputs, b) it's a huge pain to parse reliably 22:15 If only early terminals hadn't conflated disparate things... 22:16 I have a feeling that the Esc key was originally intended to let you type terminal control codes by hand 22:16 Emacs still does that for Meta- combinations, for example, in case you're on a system where neither Meta nor Alt works correctly (this has actually happened to me in practice) 22:20 Did fresh-out-of-box 3.4.3 have Q default to quit? Can't remember. 22:22 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 22:23 aosdict: no, it defaults to quiver but prints a message letting you know that the binding has changed, and to use #quit to quit 22:24 So pre-3.4.3 had it then? 22:25 I'm not sure when the quiver was invented, nethackwiki probably knows 22:26 there's some circumstantial evidence implying 3.3.0 22:27 the wiki is actually pretty silent about the history of features 22:27 aosdict: It has source code for every released version, though. 22:27 True, but that isn't very digestible. 22:39 [hdf-us] [nd] Leggman (Val Hum Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a werejackal, on T:4575 22:45 -!- K2-work is now known as K2 22:58 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 23:00 Tariru has a 39 game streak now 23:00 thirty 23:00 nine 23:00 !!! 23:01 heh 23:03 -!- greqrg has quit [Quit: Disconnected] 23:07 wait, how fast are these games being ascended? 23:07 that's another ten or so in a week 23:07 ? 23:07 7 days ago the streak was at 30 23:07 oh 23:07 Tariru 23:08 must still be on vacation 23:16 -!- Menche_ is now known as Menche 23:19 -!- StatueSurfer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:23 [hdf-us] [nd] bouquet (Bar Hum Fem Neu) bribed Baalzebub with 1700 zorkmids for safe passage, on T:60545 23:29 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 23:30 Y - a silver saber named Grayswandir. 23:30 first sac gift for my caveman 23:30 hahahah 23:31 -!- rikersan has quit [Client Quit] 23:35 [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Cav Hum Mal Law), 4462 points, T:5660, killed by an owlbear 23:35 yup 23:42 K2: par for the course in nethack 23:42 the runs where you get crazy stuff early 23:42 you don't last long 23:42 i'm the king of that scenario 23:42 unless the crazy stuff is a wand of wishing 23:42 then, you're probably good 23:43 my random nitrohack asc that I wasn't even planning on 23:43 stemmed from finding a random early wand of wishing 23:43 in my testing 23:45 heh 23:46 was trialing the save system to see what all the fuss was 23:46 I find a wand on dlvl5 or so 23:46 "since I'm testing, I bet this is totlaly wishing" 23:47 "What would you like to engrave with? You may wish for an object." 23:47 *totally 23:49 [hdf-us] [un] k2 (Cav Hum Mal Law), 4498 points, T:2502, killed by a Woodland-elf 23:53 -!- nikheizen has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:58 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit]