00:00 [hdf-us] [fh] NCommander (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 23375 points, T:2432, killed by a boulder 00:00 Protection Racket fail 00:00 !players 00:00 K2: [hdf-us] NCommander [fh] Grasshopper [nd] Twomunora [dnh] krm26 [un] 00:00 K2: [hdf-eu] k2 [zapm] 00:01 -!- mode/Beholder [+Zi] by Beholder 00:01 -!- weber.freenode.net changed the topic on #hardfought to: Welcome to Hardfought - https://www.hardfought.org/ - public irc logs available on website ¤ Public NetHack server - ssh nethack@hardfought.org ¤ EU server now mirroring variants from hdf-main - ssh nethack@eu.hardfought.org 00:01 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Beholder] by ChanServ 00:01 !players 00:01 K2: [hdf-us] NCommander [fh] Grasshopper [nd] Twomunora [dnh] krm26 [un] 00:01 K2: [hdf-eu] k2 [zapm] 00:02 oooh 00:02 i see 00:05 -!- mode/Beholder [+Zi] by Beholder 00:05 -!- weber.freenode.net changed the topic on #hardfought to: Welcome to Hardfought - https://www.hardfought.org/ - public irc logs available on website ¤ Public NetHack server - ssh nethack@hardfought.org ¤ EU server now mirroring variants from hdf-main - ssh nethack@eu.hardfought.org 00:05 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Beholder] by ChanServ 00:05 !players 00:05 K2: [hdf-us] NCommander [fh] Grasshopper [nd] Twomunora [dnh] krm26 [un] 00:05 K2: [hdf-eu] k2 [zapm] 00:05 there 00:05 FIQ ^^ 00:05 zapm is dark green 00:10 * NCommander really hopes to ascend a ranger before new years 00:10 rangers are fun 00:14 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 00:25 [hdf-us] [dnh] Twomunora (Con Orc Mal Cha) killed Aldinach, on T:70001 00:28 [hdf-us] [dnh] Twomunora (Con Orc Mal Cha) killed the hateful whispers, on T:70162 00:31 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:31 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 00:31 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 00:42 [hdf-us] [dnh] Twomunora (Con Orc Mal Cha) killed Malcanthet, on T:71411 00:55 Congrats on the ogre, K2! 00:55 thanks Tangles! 00:55 Also, I like the new colours :) 00:56 heh 00:57 [hdf-us] [gh] k2 (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 2542 points, T:3650, killed by a giant mimic 00:58 so whats new tangles? 00:59 [hdf-us] [dnh] Twomunora (Con Orc Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:72064 01:00 [hdf-us] [gh] k2 (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 146 points, T:253, killed by a kobold wererat 01:05 [hdf-us] [gh] k2 (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 411 points, T:722, killed by a rothe 01:05 too squishy 01:07 [hdf-us] [dnh] Twomunora (Con Orc Mal Cha) performed the invocation, on T:72733 01:11 K2: Not much... watching some cricket, procrastinating on the Christmas shopping :) 01:11 yeah i gotta figure out what to get my wife 01:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] Twomunora (Con Orc Mal Cha) killed the elder priestess of Moloch, on T:73385 01:25 K2: Good luck :) 01:30 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Bar Hum Mal Neu) made his first artifact wish - "blessed greased rustproof eye of the aethiopica", on T:46779 01:31 -!- hpardis has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:31 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Bar Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased rustproof eye of the aethiopica", on T:46782 01:32 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Bar Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased rustproof eye of the aethiopica", on T:46782 01:32 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Bar Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased rustproof eye of the aethiopica", on T:46783 01:32 Tangles: found it :) 01:39 [hdf-us] [dnh] Twomunora (Con Orc Mal Cha) killed Zuggtmoy, on T:75110 01:44 [hdf-us] [dnh] Twomunora (Con Orc Mal Cha) entered the Planes, on T:75759 01:48 [hdf-us] [dnh] Twomunora (Con Orc Mal Cha) destroyed Pestilence, on T:75952 01:49 Well 01:50 Wishless Polyselfless Orcish Convict 01:50 [hdf-us] [dnh] Twomunora (Con Orc Mal Cha), 21497202 points, T:75985, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/T/Twomunora/dnethack/dumplog/1511724760.dnh.txt 01:52 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 01:55 Nice Tarmunora! Convicts are not easy to get going. 01:56 Thanks! 01:57 Orcs are really strong late-game, and I found some strong weapons along the way 01:58 Same-race sacrificed to summon Yeengohu for his Flail, then found Quicksilver on Zuggtmoy's lair in Gehennom 02:00 Oh yeah yeenoghu has an artifact flail in dnethack. Nice. 02:00 I did an orc con in Un a little while ago. Just used dual crysknives for that one. 02:01 dNethack has some OP flails 02:02 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 02:11 -!- Tarmunora is now known as Tarmunoraway 02:14 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 02:14 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 02:15 [hdf-us] [dnh] DrakeMarshall (Bin Clk Fem Non), 956 points, T:2045, killed by an unwound spring 02:16 [hdf-us] [dnh] DrakeMarshall (Bin Clk Fem Non), 0 points, T:9, killed by a water moccasin 02:17 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:24 okay i've made the decision to take away Orcus' wand of death 02:25 because i think it detracts from his natural spellcasting, which would make him more of a challenge 02:27 thoughts? 02:45 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Bar Hum Mal Neu) killed the invisible Thoth Amon, on T:47757 02:46 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 02:46 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 02:46 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Bar Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:47758 02:50 [hdf-us] [dnh] DrakeMarshall (Bin Clk Fem Non), 2006 points, T:1320, killed by a flaming sphere 03:06 [hdf-us] [dnh] DrakeMarshall (Bin Clk Fem Non), 10 points, T:5, killed by a water moccasin 03:08 StatueSurfer, I've had games where taht WoD is the only one that ever showed up 03:08 StatueSurfer, if you're going to remove it, make a guaranteed one somewhere else. 03:08 [hdf-us] [dnh] DrakeMarshall (Bin Bat Fem Non), 100 points, T:193, killed by a jackal 03:08 StatueSurfer, maybe on the high priest? Though usually that's where I first apply Orcus' WoD 03:14 hm 03:14 [hdf-us] [dnh] DrakeMarshall (Bin Clk Fem Non), 16 points, T:40, killed by a water demon 03:15 i've been reading jonadab and aosdict's proposals and YANIs for different parts of the dungeon 03:15 and jonadab's pointed out that the demon lords/princes are largely way too easy 03:16 [hdf-us] [dnh] DrakeMarshall (Bin Bat Fem Non), 4 points, T:124, killed by a water elemental 03:17 so i guess i'll have to put another wand of death somewhere 03:19 because i really believe this rebalances orcus to be tougher 03:22 [hdf-us] [dnh] DrakeMarshall (Bin Clk Fem Non), 0 points, T:11, killed by a water moccasin, while helpless 03:24 [hdf-us] [dnh] DrakeMarshall (Bin Clk Fem Non), 1514 points, T:6, escaped 03:37 -!- hpardis has joined #hardfought 03:49 -!- StatueSurfer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:49 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:03 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 04:10 huh, I'm surprised that worked 04:10 * NCommander actually managed to get all 9 points on the protection racket 04:23 [hdf-us] [nd] Grasshopper (Bar Hum Mal Neu) entered Gehennom, on T:48750 04:29 K2: cool 04:38 'There is a grave here. You read: " At last... a nice long sleep." You see here a sling." 04:39 seems inviting 04:48 FIQ, I think my dog got teleportitis in FIQhack, that's an interesting problem :P 05:04 [hdf-us] [fh] NCommander (Hea Gno Mal Neu) wished for "+2 blessed fixed gray dragon scale mail", on T:9471 05:05 That was unexpected 05:23 an uncursed +0 thirsty unicorn horn of frost and lightning {20} 05:23 .... that's a freaking badass unihorn 05:36 This ... is a problem 05:57 [hdf-us] [fh] NCommander (Hea Gno Mal Neu), 36514 points, T:11539, killed by a blue jelly 05:57 * NCommander sighs 05:57 It was promising until I accidently got stuck between two jellies I couldn't kill 05:57 :( 06:20 -!- hpardis has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:20 [hdf-us] [nd] Tangles (Cav Dwa Mal Law) polymorphed his first item, on T:14890 06:21 EPI: once you kill your quest nemesis, demogorgon may appear 06:27 -!- Grasshopper_ has joined #hardfought 06:27 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper_] by ChanServ 06:29 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:29 -!- Grasshopper_ is now known as Grasshopper 06:30 -!- Grasshopper_ has joined #hardfought 06:30 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:32 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:42 [hdf-us] [nd] Tangles (Cav Dwa Mal Law), 38948 points, T:15732, killed by a rock troll 06:43 !lastgame 06:43 Tangles: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/T/Tangles/nhdev/dumplog/1513257408.nhdev.txt 06:43 ahh my jumping boots were N 06:44 that explains why my blindfold (n) didn't come off earlier. 06:44 and subsequently why I couldn't jump to escape. 06:49 something so simple :C 06:51 Well clearly I was not paying enough atttention. The final nail in the coffin was trying to zap the troll with a tele wand that turned out to be empty. 06:54 [hdf-us] [dnh] Zxkuqyb (Ana Inc Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:7961 06:59 !who 06:59 Tarmunoraway: [hdf-us] arnibald [gh] Grasshopper [nd] Zxkuqyb [dnh] krm26 [un] Tangles [4k] 06:59 Tarmunoraway: [hdf-eu] Kontroller [nd] 07:01 -!- Tarmunoraway is now known as Tarmunora 07:05 -!- zxkuqyb has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:07 [hdf-us] [gh] arnibald (Pri Hum Mal Neu) had mace bestowed upon him by Thoth, on T:5733 07:16 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 07:16 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 07:41 NCommander: ouch 07:42 how did that happen 07:42 FIQ, sokoban, one tile wide hallway, forgot blue jellies could split, and it spawned behind me. 07:42 Pinning me inbetween two 07:42 ah 07:42 oops 07:42 Yeah 07:43 [hdf-us] [dnh] Zxkuqyb (Ana Inc Mal Neu) killed Cerberus, on T:10335 07:43 I rarely if ever have even tinkered with Healer so I didn't realize quite how damage impaired they were 07:43 but couldn't you use your unihorn 07:43 leveldrain should kill 07:43 eventually 07:48 [hdf-us] [dnh] Zxkuqyb (Ana Inc Mal Neu), 69699 points, T:10816, killed by Ilona Szilagy, while taking off clothes 07:51 [hdf-us] [un] krm26 (Tou Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed +2 fixed silver saber", on T:8634 08:08 !tell StatueSurfer Agreed, taking away from his spellcasting isn't great. Also, the AI is kind of broken in that it will always select wands. 08:08 Will do, aosdict! 08:24 [hdf-us] [4k] Tangles (Wiz Syl Fem Cha) reached the bottom of the Mines, on T:5920 08:47 FIQ: explain what you mean in that drain for gain edit? 08:48 if you start with, say, 12 con 08:48 if you increase your con/wis, it doesn't help you get HP/Pw increases for recovered levels 08:48 you will over time gain far less HP 08:48 than if you started with 18 08:48 so you can "reset" and then re-level up with the new con 08:48 it helps you get HP/Pw increases for *new* levels, but that's not drain for gain 08:49 FIQ: it doesn't work in 3.6. 08:50 the only part of drain for gain that was actually removed was the fact that you could use gain constitution/similar to lose less HP than you would gain 08:51 aosdict: the game doesn't make your level up gains permanent, it will only record them for leveldrain 08:51 as an example 08:51 let's say I get 3, 4, 2, 3, 5 from level 1->6 08:51 if I leveldrain back to 1 08:51 I will have these applied in reverse 08:51 but now I get a new opportunity at higher gains, especially if I boosted my con/wis since 08:52 I will not (neccessarily) get 3, 4, 2, 3, 5 again 08:53 you may want to explain this at more length then, it just sounds like it's contradicting the rest of the paragraph 08:54 why is it 08:54 but you *will* get -5, -3, -2, -4, -3 when you drain, is that what you're saying? 08:55 that every time I play fourk 08:55 I die to a boulder 08:55 [hdf-us] [4k] FIQ (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 774 points, T:485, killed by a boulder 08:55 raisse: yes 08:55 because the boulders hate you? 08:55 but why 4k 08:55 !tell ais523 drain-for-gain isn't totally immune to increasing maxHP/maxPw like I thought, though it isn't actually farmable. It's still cheesable with blessed !oRA though. 08:55 Will do, aosdict! 08:55 it's only 4k where I have this issue 08:56 FIQ: easy solution: make base maxHP a function of current XL and current Con :) 08:57 aosdict: better? 08:57 my edit that is 08:57 yeah 08:59 <[Demo]> im gonna drink me 14 blessed full healings! 08:59 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:59 oh ais was actually here 08:59 lol 09:00 hmm, in this spell proposal, I'm not sure I should change up actual spell schools like dtsund proposed. 09:00 Let me check his reasons for doing so. 09:01 he thought the existing schools was doing flavour over mechanics 09:01 *at the expense of gameplay 09:02 I'm not particularly opposed to changing up the school a spell is assigned to, but the biggest shakeup is removing the clerical and healing schools and replacing them with matter. 09:02 s/matter/defense 09:02 where did matter even come from 09:04 okay, so the problem is, I guess, that doing those changes to spell schools is that it makes everything an "arcane" spell, in D&D terms 09:05 and if you want to merge monster and player spells, and I have been writing this proposal with that in mind, there's no real established clerical spell list for priests to cast from 09:05 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:07 I mean, you could put the clerical spells into this set of spells, but things like pillar of flame, lightning bolt, and geyser would all go into attack spells, meaning that wizards would actually be better at casting them than actual clerics 09:16 I'm not sure how reconcilable these goals are without adding a complex mechanic like adding a bit to spellbooks that means they're clerical and giving Priests a bonus in them, or something like that. 09:16 FIQ: when you merged monster spellcasting, how did you handle the clerical spell list? 09:16 monsters didn't get to keep their spells 09:17 instead, I gave priests fixed spell lists: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/FIQHack#Aligned_priests 09:17 okay so you got rid of their high-level attack spells 09:17 yes 09:17 it's not like they actually posed a threat anyway 09:19 and they can't cast curses on you anymore? 09:19 no more curse items 09:19 if not, YANI: spell of remove curse can be cast offensively to curse items 09:19 the Wizard's harassment was made nastier to compensate 09:21 It makes flavor sense, but when would a fiqhack priest ever cast remove curse? 09:22 if they generate with cursed items 09:22 or pickup something cursed 09:22 -!- zxkuqyb has joined #hardfought 09:24 okay I guess if one isn't trying to port over the attack spells, most of the others can be either reproduced or discarded as unimportant 09:28 jonadab: I'm trying to press ctrl+f in 4k, but it isn't working :( 09:32 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 09:43 FIQ: actually, I'm wondering if dtsund didn't go quite far enough in merging schools, and I'm wondering if Escape spells should be broken up and distributed among the rest (mostly to Matter and Defense). 09:43 [hdf-us] [4k] FIQ (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) entered the Minetown temple, on T:3732 09:44 [hdf-us] [gh] k2 (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 962 points, T:2116, killed by a gecko, while paralyzed 09:50 jonadab: why is this melon brown? 09:51 oh, for some reason I've set fruitname to melon 09:57 [hdf-us] [4k] FIQ (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 12006 points, T:4687, killed by a poisonous corpse 10:13 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 10:31 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 10:43 [hdf-us] [dnh] Zxkuqyb (Ana Inc Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:6107 10:52 [09:02] ...the biggest shakeup is removing the clerical and healing schools 10:52 aosdict: why do you hate healers? 11:02 hothraxxa: blame dtsund? 11:02 wasn't *my* idea 11:02 is dtund responsible for nerfing the unihorn as a weapon? hmmmm? 11:03 anyway, i don't see the point of a healer that can't fight and has no casting school 11:03 also, the non-useless healing spells aren't removed in dtsund's proposal, they're just converted to Defense spells 11:03 which healers can get expert in IIRC 11:04 which is actually beneficical since there are other defense spells that aren't strictly healing 11:04 so extra healing is a defense spell? seems a bit contrived if you ask me 11:04 which you didn't of course 11:05 hothraxxa: well, when you remove useless healing spells 11:05 there are only like 3 or 4 left 11:05 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 11:06 an opportunity to make up new ones! 11:06 okay, give me all your ideas for new healing spells then :P 11:06 i'll get right back to you on that 11:10 <[Demo]> cure confusion 11:10 so you're removing cure blindness and restore ability, is that correct? 11:10 <[Demo]> but you cant ever cast it 11:10 hi amy 11:12 hothraxxa: those and stone to flesh (which is now a wand). jonadab could not think of a counterargument for why stone to flesh should remain a spell, I'm happy to hear yours. 11:13 (In any case, stone to flesh, if it remained a spell, should really be matter anyway.) 11:13 [hdf-us] [gh] arnibald (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 5570 points, T:7895, killed by Mr. Izchak, the shopkeeper 11:13 yes stf is a matter spell really 11:14 so the only remaining healing spells are healing, extra healing (which is merged with healing in this proposal), and cure sickness. 11:14 i'd argue stf should remain a spell in order to give healers something to differentiate the role 11:14 Two spells are not enough to make their own spell school. 11:14 yeah so healers are pretty much... not healers 11:15 hothraxxa: well I was planning on also giving healers a starting wand of stone to flesh 11:15 <[Demo]> slashem healers are healers 11:15 [Demo]: because they can do healy stuff without needing magic? 11:15 <[Demo]> yeah 11:16 tbh i haven't actually thought out how to make a better healer. i'm just reacting to the changes i've seen you talk about lately 11:16 <[Demo]> they start with way more healy stuff 11:16 as someone who likes to play healers 11:16 hothraxxa: note that this is a proposal, not anything I particularly intend to add before it gets feedback 11:16 <[Demo]> and have healy techniques 11:16 yes i know it's a proposal 11:17 healers should also have at least Basic enchantment spells imo 11:18 who else can get to expert in healing skills? 11:18 monks and priests 11:18 er, well, assuming you meant spells there 11:19 yes 11:19 i just looked up the table 11:19 maybe a master level for healers 11:20 <[Demo]> theres a solution i really like 11:20 <[Demo]> are you familiar with the bard patch? 11:20 i am not 11:20 moderately 11:20 <[Demo]> so basically bards can play certain spells sort of based on applying musical instruments and this is regulated through musicalize spell skill level 11:20 <[Demo]> whatever the top section of skills is called, the one with riding 11:21 <[Demo]> could have a healing skill 11:21 <[Demo]> apply scalpel 11:21 <[Demo]> and other healy items 11:21 <[Demo]> and be able to do stuff with them depending on your heal skill lvl 11:21 <[Demo]> and maybe let another role or two be able to get like basic in healing 11:22 dynahack removed the restore ability of the unihorn, making restore ability a useful spell 11:22 <[Demo]> dnh does the same thing 11:23 also, i got into it with demogorgon the other night and cure sickness came in handy (when i could get it in) 11:24 nothing happens is a bit of a pissoff when demogorgon is beating you up 11:24 hothraxxa: with my recent unihorn change, you might want to use one against demogorgon! :) 11:25 passive curing of your sickness would be quite nice 11:25 at 1d3/1d3? 11:25 also that's not really a healer thing, that applies to everyone, no? 11:25 nah, probably just wield it and damage him some other way 11:26 and yes, it's not healer specific 11:26 what other way? 11:26 wands or something, maybe. Cure sickness casters would actually probably be better off without a unicorn horn, come to think of it. 11:26 <[Demo]> disease resistance? 11:26 [hdf-us] [dnh] Zxkuqyb (Ana Inc Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:8788 11:26 <[Demo]> healers have that in slashem i think 11:27 wands against demogorgon? don't they miss a lot? 11:27 <[Demo]> anyway 11:27 <[Demo]> aosdict: healing explosion spells 11:27 <[Demo]> theres ur more healing spells 11:28 [Demo]: yeah it's weird how they have poison resistance but not sickness resistance (what with the "fortunately you have been immunized" message) 11:28 <[Demo]> ive dabbled with making healer more healy 11:29 <[Demo]> had healing explosions from applying scalpel but looking back that didnt make much sense 11:31 a healer fighting demogorgon is almost sure to have the staff and at least one other artifact weapon. i often get mjollnir 11:31 this time i had vorpal blade 11:31 and magicbane 12:07 -!- Chris__ANG has joined #hardfought 12:09 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:12 -!- Chris__ANG is now known as Chris_ANG 12:23 [hdf-us] [dnh] Zxkuqyb (Ana Inc Mal Neu) killed Cerberus, on T:13368 12:27 [hdf-us] [dnh] Zxkuqyb (Ana Inc Mal Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:13616 13:39 [hdf-us] [gh] k2 (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 1336 points, T:1757, killed by an orcish werejackal 13:40 -!- Announcy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:40 -!- Announcy has joined #hardfought 13:41 <[Demo]> grunt and be hacked 13:57 -!- deadnoob_ has joined #hardfought 13:58 hothraxxa: Defense is... arguably just a miscellaneous box of spells currently. 13:59 Jumping, haste self, turn undead, healing, cure sickness. 14:00 you could have three categories: offense, defense, utility 14:00 dtsund's defense list isn't really all that more coherent either: healing, protection, cure sickness, extra healing, turn undead, create familiar. 14:00 there aren't really that many defensive spells though 14:01 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:02 Turn undead is annoying because it is a _very_ clerical spell, but in this rearrangement really should fall under Attack. 14:04 Maybe should put Escape back in but rebrand it as Movement. 14:11 you're still writing primarily a combat system overhaul proposal, right? do you intend to expand the scope? 14:11 hothraxxa: this is a completely separate spell overhaul proposal 14:12 ohhh 14:12 they overlap, don't they? 14:12 And I need to cut the scope of the combat system overhaul to about 25% of what it is now :P 14:12 well obviously they do overlap 14:12 they don't... really overlap, no. Only in stuff like to-hit of spells. 14:13 From the perspective of this spell proposal, the only knobs I need to turn for balancing a spell are its level and school. 14:13 (assuming skills don't change.) 14:18 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 14:18 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 14:22 hothraxxa: so Healing spells might be back on the table, because I've pared down Defense to the point where it only contains healing spells. Unfortunately it only contains two healing spells, healing and cure sickness. 14:22 I suppose restore ability could remain in as well. 14:22 where's extra healing? 14:23 Folded into the "greater" healing effect. 14:23 <[Demo]> oh good amy's shameful defeat to the elder priest in junethack is referenced in dnh now 14:23 that's the main thing of this proposal, it allows you to cast all spells at a higher level for more powerful effects 14:23 healing/extra healing was already basically that 14:24 [Demo]: in what way? 14:24 Chris_ANG sometimes reference "oopsies" performed by people 14:24 I have been one step from divinity 14:24 restore ability could be useful for acquiring poison resistance in the early game if it were l1 or maybe l2 14:24 Khor's has had the axe randomly fall off the world 14:24 *Khor 14:25 etc 14:25 hothraxxa: the main reason I took it out was I couldn't figure out both greater and lesser effects for it that both scaled with skill level and that people would actually use 14:26 restore ability? there's only the one option, right? one vs all 14:26 for example, here is a good lesser effect: restores 1d(your skill) lost skill points 14:26 rename it to restoration 14:26 make it progressively more potent 14:26 maybe it only restores attributes at first 14:26 then also status problems in general 14:27 maybe even lost levels from leveldrain 14:27 at expert 14:27 if you're working on spell system revision, you already know that having three skill levels is a farce 14:27 how so? 14:27 FIQ: also, if your maxhp is lower than it should be, can bring that back up to 0 14:27 almost no spell skills are worth advancing to expert in most circumstances 14:28 there's sedge cases, sure 14:28 -s 14:28 hothraxxa: there are almost no spell skills worth advancing to expert _now_. In the proposal it's a different story since I'm trying to make every spell scale. 14:28 aosdict: "up to 0"? 14:28 if your max HP is below 0, you're dead 14:29 well i'd hope so, that was my point 14:29 FIQ: sorry 14:29 -!- aoei has joined #hardfought 14:29 FIQ: this would be in a system where your HP is func(XL, Con) plus or minus anything you got externally 14:29 FIQ, same way 14:29 AmyBSoD: "Phew, killed that elder priest. He shredded my CoMR but at least he's de-" 14:30 fun fact: ADOM has 4 healing spells. But due to how the spell skill system works in there, the "worse" the healing effect is, the better the spell 14:30 because it costs less 14:30 and the more you cast a spell, the more potent it becomes 14:30 and they all scaled the same 14:30 "oops" 14:30 Chris_ANG: oh, I think I've seen that already 14:31 [hdf-us] [dnh] Zxkuqyb (Ana Inc Mal Neu) was given their Quest, on T:19288 14:31 aosdict: btw 14:31 I have been considering doing the same thing you are working on now 14:32 just I never went ahead and did it 14:32 I might steal some of the changes you're doing :) 14:32 what, revamping spells? 14:32 Making more spells scale 14:32 and potentially remove redundant ones (extra healing vs healing) 14:32 you guys hate healers :( 14:32 * hothraxxa pouts 14:32 hothraxxa: ? 14:33 hothraxxa: in this system 14:33 healers can reach expert in healing 14:33 they should get a stronger effect from healing at expert 14:33 you can cast a healing beam to heal (skill+3)d4 hit points, at level 1 14:33 than what EH gives atm 14:33 aosdict: healing should be level 2 14:33 1 makes it too cheap 14:33 or you can cast a greater healing beam to heal (skill+3)d10 hit points, at level 3 14:33 that is better than vanilla 14:33 fiq: yes but i want EXTRA healing on top of that 14:33 aosdict: why keep the redundancy? 14:34 i'm a healer, i spent hunfdreds of thousands of zorkmids at medical school, i should be able to raise the dead and stuff 14:34 ok cure the dead. 14:34 fix zombies, maybe 14:34 I have considered removing turn undead, or make it only work for actually turning undead 14:34 and make a level 7 resurrection spell 14:34 healing 14:35 there ya go 14:35 would you keep the wand? 14:35 FIQ: yes, in this proposal turn undead is now straight up D&D style turn undead 14:35 For dealing with undead, yes 14:35 offensive versus undead 14:35 resurrection and raising the dead is more of a priest thing though 14:35 the wand retains its resurrection powers (currently, I could change that) 14:36 hothraxxa: but D&D doesn't actually have a "healing" school, does it? 14:36 healing is folded into clerical there 14:36 i don't recall one, no 14:36 in nethack context, resurrection makes more sense as a healing spell 14:36 it's been like 40 years since i played d&d 14:36 my knowledge of D&D goes only as far as OOTS stuff 14:37 (which I take with a grain of salt because, well, yeah) 14:37 FIQ: I saw the nethack guest comic on oots and was wondering if I should link it on the fanworks page on the wiki 14:38 i was part of a small group that took up d&d as soon as we discovered it 14:38 huh, d&d is actually over 40 years old 14:38 yes, mid-70s 14:38 i don't recall whay year we started, but it was no later than 76 14:39 lol 14:39 I looked up cleric on wikipedia 14:39 A description of Priests and Priestesses from the Nethack guidebook: Priests and Priestesses are clerics militant, crusaders advancing the cause of righteousness with arms, armor, and arts thaumaturgic. Their ability to commune with deities via prayer occasionally extricates them from peril, but can also put them in it.[1] 14:39 [hdf-us] [nd] Qwesti (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 94 points, T:277, killed by a black pudding 14:39 fiq: that's a d&d cleric 14:39 they weren't supposed to use edged weapons 14:40 but a mace, boy howdy 14:40 there isn't really any good reason that maces make terrible weapons in nethack 14:41 FIQ: weapon rebalance is next up on my list after spells :) 14:41 more pole weapons! 14:41 *more*? 14:41 like 14:41 50% 14:41 of nethack weapons are polearms 14:41 yes! at least an artifact pole weapon, c'mon 14:42 i want to know who uses a pole weapon in nethack, except to bonk the castle eels 14:42 you want to play polearmhack? 14:42 most defintiely, if you write it 14:42 hothraxxa: main reason nobody uses polearms: 14:43 1: awful UI (FIQHack, and 3.6 to an extent, addresses this) 14:43 2: ridiculous weight for basically no damage 14:43 3: no artifact 14:43 i suggest eelbane 14:44 people like katanas 14:44 and there's only snickersnee for it 14:44 which basically nobody uses 14:45 and whose fault is that, mr. developer? 14:45 maybe people like katanas only because they're 1d10/1d12 and use long sword skill 14:45 ya think? 14:45 [hdf-us] [dnh] Elysium (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 2885 points, T:2587, killed by a tengu 14:47 -!- hothraxxa has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:47 was only providing a counterexample to 14:47 3 14:47 I know why 14:48 -!- hothraxxa has joined #hardfought 14:48 bye hoth 14:48 hi hoth! 14:48 long time no see 14:48 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v hothraxxa] by ChanServ 14:48 grr! closed the wrong window 14:48 was only providing a counterexample to 14:48 3 14:48 I know why 14:49 FIQ: considering also adding a spell of panacea, which is a healing spell that cures status ailments (that aren't sickness/foodpois). 14:49 i know you know why 14:49 panacea? 14:49 [hdf-us] [dnh] Zxkuqyb (Ana Inc Mal Neu), 190645 points, T:19824, killed by a gas cloud 14:49 FIQ: basically cure blindness that works on more things and can work on other monsters 14:49 :c 14:49