00:01 [slex] Uruwi (Pic Ame Fem Law), 735 points, T:893, killed by a blast of fire 00:03 -!- Guest5416 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:04 [nd] KickyMcAssingtn (Val Hum Fem Neu), 12 points, T:1045, killed by a grid bug, while fainted from lack of food 00:13 [slex] Uruwi (Fai Lol Mal Law), 13192 points, T:779, killed by a monster (invisible falling patch) 00:33 [slex] Uruwi (Aci Alc Mal Cha), 693 points, T:1185, killed by a critically injured thief's explosion 00:34 -!- mcnick has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:39 [slex] Uruwi (Kor Sov Fem Neu), 341 points, T:488, killed by a monster (exploding jackal) 00:46 DIED: buffy (Cav-Dwa-Fem-Law), 5201 points, 5317 turns, killed by an owlbear, while praying on altorg 00:46 DIED: Kontroller (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 10049 points, 7593 turns, killed by a mountain centaur, while praying on hdf-eu 00:56 DIED: jackofclubs (Cav-Dwa-Mal-Law), 6587 points, 4481 turns, killed by a gray unicorn on hardfought 00:58 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 00:59 -!- stenno is now known as Guest61108 01:12 [slex] Uruwi (Yeo Dee Mal Neu), 1416 points, T:3393, killed by a crossbow bolt 01:16 -!- Guest61108 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:22 [slex] Uruwi (Art Sat Mal Neu), 957 points, T:799, killed by a monster (carrion crawler), while paralyzed by a monster attack 01:28 [slex] Uruwi (Trc Fie Mal Law), 135 points, T:269, killed by a monster (weeping woman) 01:35 [slex] Uruwi (Gun Maz Fem Cha), 118 points, T:598, killed by a monster (invisible Mr. Beddgelert, the shopkeeper) 01:39 DIED: Kontroller (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 1213 points, 1959 turns, killed by a pony on hdf-eu 01:40 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:42 DIED: buffy (Cav-Dwa-Fem-Law), 1821 points, 3987 turns, killed by a rabid rat on altorg 01:46 -!- notzmv has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 01:48 DIED: Kontroller (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 306 points, 1108 turns, killed by a wand, while helpless on hdf-eu 02:02 DIED: Kontroller (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 830 points, 2635 turns, killed by a hill orc on hdf-eu 02:05 -!- raisse\splat has joined #hardfought 02:05 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse\splat] by ChanServ 02:12 [un] KickyMcAssingtn (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 206 points, T:514, killed by a fox 02:13 [un] KickyMcAssingtn (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 28 points, T:101, killed by a jackal 02:15 have any variants added more hallucinary monsters? 02:18 DIED: Kontroller (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 1168 points, 2352 turns, killed by a bat on hdf-eu 02:24 [un] KickyMcAssingtn (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 294 points, T:512, killed by a water elemental 02:28 why do I have a 3:27h un game 02:28 I don't even play fast 02:28 is un xlog as it should? 02:29 apparently it was a T:56k game 02:29 ??? 02:32 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 02:34 -!- stenno is now known as Guest79705 02:34 stenno: do you know anything about there potentially being something wrong with un's realtime xlog field? 02:38 -!- shpingrlde has joined #hardfought 02:41 DIED: Kontroller (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 1744 points, 3545 turns, killed by a giant ant, while frozen by a monster's gaze on hdf-eu 02:51 DIED: Kontroller (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 582 points, 1668 turns, killed by a wand on hdf-eu 02:54 Guest79705 02:58 -!- raisse\splat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:01 DIED: buffy (Cav-Dwa-Fem-Law), 1163 points, 3804 turns, killed by an Uruk-hai on altorg 03:05 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 03:05 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 03:07 DIED: Kontroller (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 1793 points, 2333 turns, killed by a gray ooze on hdf-eu 03:10 !tell ais523 FIQHack commit c987c24 fixes the autopickup rules bug 03:10 Will do, FIQ! 03:16 -!- hpardis has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 03:19 theoretically, can you ascend 6 qualifying valkyries in a best of 13 string? chaotic+neutral+lawful * mal+fem? 03:19 best of 13 only counts ascensions I think? 03:19 it doesn't care about anything besides that 03:20 basically 03:20 Best of 13 – 10 pts – Achieved by player with most ascensions with different role/race/gender/alignment combination within 13 game window. 03:20 most ascensions within 13 games 03:20 ah 03:20 hmm but I think this only matters if you tie asc-wise 03:20 not sure though 03:25 DIED: Kontroller (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 1567 points, 3007 turns, killed by a water moccasin on hdf-eu 03:26 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:27 FIQ: there is nothing wrong in itself - but there's a special way that unnethack does realtime 03:28 FIQ: i think there is a upper cut on how long a turn can take 03:28 forgot the actual value 03:29 DIED: Tangles (Hea-Gno-Mal-Neu), 4547 points, 1886 turns, killed by a hobbit, while frozen by a monster's gaze on hdf-au 03:29 hmm 03:29 interesting 03:29 so that would explain why I somehow have a 3h30min unnethack asc I guess? 03:30 yeah unnethack ascs tend to be quick :) 03:30 hm do you know where the unique deaths regexes for devnull is? 03:30 no, i just know that the list is public 03:31 wooble was happy that he doesn't have to use a script he wrote 03:32 you are a guest btw 03:32 -!- Guest79705 has quit [Changing host] 03:32 -!- Guest79705 has joined #hardfought 03:32 -!- Guest79705 is now known as stenno 03:32 there 03:35 DIED: Tangles (Hea-Gno-Fem-Neu), 211 points, 230 turns, killed by a small mimic on hdf-au 03:40 -!- Webmant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:46 -!- raisse\splat has joined #hardfought 03:46 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse\splat] by ChanServ 03:48 DIED: buffy (Cav-Dwa-Fem-Law), 2177 points, 4735 turns, killed by a killer bee on altorg 03:50 DIED: Kontroller (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 4796 points, 4121 turns, killed by a lizard, while frozen by a monster's gaze on hdf-eu 03:51 DIED: arckex (Pri-Hum-Fem-Neu), 5162 points, 4048 turns, killed by a dwarf on hardfought 03:55 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 04:04 DIED: Raisse (Arc-Dwa-Fem-Law), 2527 points, 2256 turns, killed by a jackal on hdf-eu 04:05 DIED: Raisse (Arc-Dwa-Fem-Law), 16 points, 55 turns, killed by a fox on hdf-eu 04:13 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:20 DIED: Rex (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 2345 points, 3816 turns, poisoned by a killer bee on hdf-eu 04:27 DIED: Rex (Wiz-Orc-Mal-Cha), 478 points, 1001 turns, killed by a giant bat on hdf-eu 04:31 DIED: Rex (Rog-Hum-Fem-Cha), 414 points, 506 turns, killed by a gas spore's explosion on hdf-eu 04:39 -!- raisse\splat has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:26 CHALLENGE COMPLETED! FIQ completed the Dig-Dug challenge. 05:31 -!- katung has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:05 yani - blessed charging upgrades a nonmagical instrument to a magical one 06:12 CHALLENGE IGNORED! scp1014 ignored the Grue challenge. 06:12 CHALLENGE IGNORED! scp1014 ignored the Dig-Dug challenge. 06:12 CHALLENGE IGNORED! scp1014 ignored the Joust challenge. 06:12 CHALLENGE IGNORED! scp1014 ignored the Pac-Man challenge. 06:12 CHALLENGE IGNORED! scp1014 ignored the Waldo challenge. 06:12 CHALLENGE IGNORED! scp1014 ignored the ZAPM challenge. 06:51 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:37 -!- raisse\splat has joined #hardfought 07:37 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse\splat] by ChanServ 08:01 DIED: Raisse (Arc-Dwa-Fem-Law), 5841 points, 6059 turns, killed by a killer bee, while praying on hdf-eu 08:04 DIED: blackshift (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 857 points, 718 turns, killed by a kitten on hdf-eu 08:07 DIED: Mandevil (Sam-Hum-Fem-Law), 972 points, 761 turns, killed by a dart on hdf-eu 08:17 -!- raisse\splat has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:19 CHALLENGE ACCEPTED! bleeko accepted the ZAPM challenge. 08:21 ASCENDED: elenmirie (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 990462 points, 29497 turns, ascended on hdf-eu 08:21 https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/e/elenmirie/dn36/dumplog/1510484094.dn36.txt 08:22 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 08:22 TROPHY: elenmirie just earned the Double Top 08:27 DIED: Eleven (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 7629 points, 11209 turns, killed by an ogre, while sleeping on hardfought 08:28 DIED: Mandevil (Sam-Hum-Fem-Law), 2108 points, 2537 turns, killed by a soldier ant on hdf-eu 08:34 [fh] Kirk (puck) (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 38444 points, T:6471, killed by a bolt of cold 08:34 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 08:34 -!- StinkyGreene has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:36 ais523: hi 08:36 -!- Webmant has joined #hardfought 08:37 hi FIQ 08:37 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2017-11-13 03:10 EST: FIQHack commit c987c24 fixes the autopickup rules bug 08:38 currently just trying out a new desktop environment 08:38 I see 08:38 what DE? 08:40 MATE 08:40 ah 08:42 bleh, this is annoying, it has many but not all of the features I want, but seems generically buggy in other ways 08:44 ^ 08:44 more promise than payoff 08:44 just customize xfce to taste 08:45 well, I was forced into a new DE recently because Unity is no longer supported 08:45 I've been using Cinnamon, which is fine but not perfect 08:45 hm, I would think Unity -> gnome3 would be the fallback 08:46 it's got swish and whoosh 08:47 shpingrlde: gnome3 was the default replacement but it is unusably terrilbe 08:47 MATE is basically just Gnome 2. 08:47 jonadab: Message from ais523 at 2017-11-12 12:05 EST: huh, fun coincidence that you sent that then; I've been working on libuncursed2 over the past few days, mostly pre-emptive documentation as I sort out how everything works (there's not much implemented but I've got quite some way through documenting it), 24-bit and 8-bit color is already documented 08:47 part of the reason I'm on IRC right now is to check that it actually works 08:47 Although I assume it will eventually diverge. 08:47 on gnome 3 the keyboard was "sticking" and outputting letters in burst 08:47 *bursts 08:48 There's really no excuse for Gnome 3. 08:48 I might have been willing to learn it if it actually worked 08:48 but it doesn't 08:48 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 08:48 its application matcher is even buggier than bamfdaemon, for example 08:48 -!- stenno is now known as Guest3511 08:48 Its perf issues on even moderately non-cutting-edge hardeware are out of all proportion for its actual functionality. 08:49 And its UI design is horrific. 08:49 I put up with gnome 3 for a few days, and got to like a few things about it. especially once I found out it actually *can* be customized. but if you're willing to put in the effort to customize, just use xfce tbh 08:49 And its customizability reminds me of something out of Cupertino. 08:49 ais523: Will libuncursed2 allow 8bit color on Konsole? 08:49 Considering that apparently while Konsole does support it, it can't be detected? 08:49 FIQ: why wouldn't it? 08:49 FIQ: I assume it'll allow 24-bit color on Konsole. 08:49 Ah, maybe I misremember 08:50 oh, I see, you'd have to specify an option then 08:50 nethack --interface tty=colordepth:24 08:50 Oh, that works for me. 08:50 I'm planning to have a per-account config file too for this sort of thing 08:50 what about dgl 08:50 I mean, in the absense of the ability to autodetect. 08:50 OH, hmm. 08:50 That's a good point. 08:51 FIQ: there's an API for specifying this from inside the program 08:51 although that's unsatsifactory as I don't really want to push this onto NetHack-from-inside 08:51 perhaps we could get it to parse the nethackrc somehow? 08:52 that sounds like a bad idea 08:52 yes 08:52 or perhaps dgl could allow people to update their uncursedrc 08:52 well 08:52 I'm willing to help make solutions for this at the libuncursed end 08:53 -!- Guest3511 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:53 a bunch of roguelikes use something called NotEye 08:53 it also has its own config 08:53 so I guess you could do the same for uncursed 08:54 actually, the easiest fix is probably just to put a libuncursed configuration string in as one of the nethack options 08:54 why is this master mind flayer not moving 08:54 it has been sitting in the water 08:54 spamming mental static 08:54 and doing nothing else 08:54 in 3.6 08:55 seems like a pretty great strategy for it 08:55 I mean 08:55 yes 08:56 but it's probably a bug 08:59 DIED: thiandre (Mon-Hum-Fem-Cha), 33579 points, 14214 turns, killed by an owlbear on hardfought 09:00 urgh 09:00 having to do # every time 09:00 to get hover descriptions 09:00 is annoying 09:02 DIED: shadowcat (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 693 points, 2164 turns, killed by a manes, while frozen by a monster's gaze on hardfought 09:04 I'm going back to Cinnamon I think 09:04 MATE does a lot right, but Cinnamon is a) closer to what I want, b) more customizable 09:04 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: rebooting] 09:06 DIED: shadowcat (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 294 points, 703 turns, killed by a coyote on hardfought 09:08 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 09:09 FWIW, the only part of MATE I use is the panel. 09:09 oh wow, the mere fact of installing MATE has had some positive side effects on Cinnamon 09:09 I think Cinnamon is using parts of one of MATE's themes 09:09 because I set it over in MATE and the settings are shared 09:10 Interesting. 09:10 does anyone know why 3.6 monsters seem to ignore boulders when it comes to hitting you with ranged combat? 09:12 anyway, I had a YANI that I rather like earlier today 09:12 let's hear it 09:13 it's a new item, the "thief stone" (grey stone); each thief stone is keyed to a particular location in the dungeon (normally somewhere fairly safe / suitable for a stash, occasionally a vault) 09:13 when you pick up an unIDed thief stone, it teleports a random magical (oc_magic) non-artifact item in your inventory to the keyed location and IDs itself 09:13 you can apply it, or rub it on an item, to teleport a magical non-artifact item to the keyed location 09:13 and you can drop it on a pile of items to teleport all the magical items in it to the keyed location 09:14 that's an evil patch idea 09:14 so the idea is that it gives you a 1-way method of sending things to a stash (which might not be perfectly placed, but is reasonably placed) or to transfer items between stashes 09:14 hopefully cutting down on stashing tedium 09:14 but it doesn't help you take things back out of stashes, so it doesn't give much of a strategic advantage 09:14 why only magical items? 09:15 oh, I see 09:15 and it also acts as a bit of a trap, meaning it fits better into the flavour 09:15 a banking stone 09:15 aosdict: to prevent people feeling like they have to stash all the junk in the dungeon 09:15 I feel like that should be left to the player 09:15 if an item has a magical base type it's usually at least mildly useful, meaning that players may consider not stashing it 09:16 aosdict: I don't, too many people quit NetHack due to doing something ridiculous and tedious due to falsely thinking it's necessary 09:16 you don't meet these people because they aren't in the NetHack community for obvious reasons, but there's quite a number of them 09:16 also, my larger issue with the idea 09:16 a thief stone could teleport your stuff into a DL24 vault, when you first find it 09:17 and then it's more or less lost to you unless you go looking really hard 09:17 I would assume it would be generated on the same level as its keyed location. 09:17 ??deathonastick 09:17 aosdict: oh, they always generate on the same level as the keyed location 09:17 and that shows up in the description to give unspoiled players a clue as to how they work 09:17 "thief stone (keyed to Dungeons:4)" or whatever 09:18 deathonastick[2/5]: He polypiled rocks for a year and a half, only to drink an unBUCed (cursed) potion of gain level on level one - leaving his hundreds of thousands of valuables behind. 09:18 Only when identified, I assume. 09:18 (type-identified at least) 09:18 Although type-identifying them would be trivial under NH4 rules. 09:19 jonadab: it type-IDs when it steals an item 09:19 And if you're adding a new item, even to NH3, you could make the new item follow NH4 rules for identifying itself. 09:19 Yeah. 09:19 which is likely to be the first time you pick it up 09:19 YEah. 09:19 So you kick-test it, pick it up, and it's identified. 09:19 right 09:20 I assume you get a message about your item disappearing. 09:20 yes 09:20 hmm, if people like this enough I might try to get it into 3.7 09:20 It doesn't sound unreasonable to me. 09:20 would prefer to have it tested in some form first 09:21 ugh, do I have to get NH4 4.3 out so that I can put it in 4.4? :-P 09:21 can't be tested in Fourk because magic chests would change the results of the test 09:21 DIED: shadowcat (Val-Hum-Fem-Law), 689 points, 1385 turns, killed by a manes, while frozen by a monster's gaze on hardfought 09:21 ais523: you really ought to get at least beta3 out anyway, because there are people out there still using beta2, and then they come to the channel with bug reports. 09:21 And beta2 is horrifically out of date. 09:21 jonadab: yes 09:22 if I did it, and actually did some sort of release, we would get to see what it looks like in what is basically vanilla 3.6.1 09:22 Well, you could test that the thief stone _works_ in Fourk, but yeah, it wouldn't be a good venue for testing the balance implications. 09:22 Though I'm not sure magic chests really change balance much. They're mainly a convenience feature. 09:22 (Well, the _initial magic chest contents_ are balance relevant, especially for some races and roles.) 09:23 (But that's a separate issue from the existence of the chests.) 09:23 ais523: Suppose a .des file specifies a thief stone. How does the game decide where its x,y coords are? 09:24 (For where it sends things, I mean.) 09:24 aosdict: Yes. 09:24 That should work for testing. 09:24 jonadab: I assume a random suitable location on the level, with the most obvious way to program it 09:25 "suitable" meaning, hmm, only walkable terrains... not sure if there should be other restrictions. 09:25 jonadab: I personally wait a bit to mull this over and let the idea mature a bit, but I'd be willing to program it, probably. 09:25 Well, walkable non-door terrains. 09:26 jonadab: locations like "inside a shop" would be imperfect for stashes, at least unless you killed the shk first 09:26 I do like the idea of having more gray stones, but the ones Slash'em adds are either really boring/useless in practice (whetstone) or would have balance implications I prefer not to deal with (healthstone). 09:26 corridors also aren't a great location, except for dead ends 09:26 Ah, true, maybe avoid special rooms in general. 09:27 And non-dead-end corridors, that also makes sense. 09:27 and a room in the centre of the level with lots of doors doesn't make a great stash location either, especially if it's a long way from the stairs 09:27 I see. 09:27 That's less trivial to program, but makes sense. 09:27 I guess you could make it so that thief stones had random locations and not all were great for stashing, but make them a bit more common 09:27 Idea: place a chest wherever it is keyed to. 09:27 yes, could work 09:27 And items go into that chest. 09:27 That would be neat. 09:27 what if the chest is moved? 09:27 If the chest is moved, then the items go on the floor. 09:28 oh, that would be OK I think 09:28 or it could be tied to object ID? 09:28 (And if a different container is put there, say, an icebox...) 09:28 aosdict: that'd be a real pain to program 09:28 Indeed, it would. 09:28 Especially in NH3. 09:28 migrating to a given (x, y, z) isn't too bad, migrating to a particular item is really hard 09:29 jonadab: if you have a problem with useless gray stones, then let's get rid of or buff flint stones 09:29 migrating to a given (x, y, z) then entering a container if there's one there isn't something that's currently possible in vanilla but it should be easy enough to wriet 09:29 *write 09:29 aosdict: I have _somewhat_ buffed flint in Fourk already, but yes, it likely needs more. 09:29 jonadab: incidentally, the effect of the item came first, then it took me a while to figure out the item class 09:29 If nothing else, it should generate in larger stacks. 09:29 and then I realised that "gray stone" was pretty much perfect 09:30 Yes, gray stone is a very reasonable choice for this. 09:30 Bag of Thieving would be the other sane option. 09:30 YANI: You can apply a pickaxe to yourself to break apart a loadstone in your inventory, destroying it. 09:30 I quite like thief stone. at least, I like it if we assume magic chests are off the table. :P 09:30 yes, it doesn't play well with magic chests 09:30 It's partly redundant with magic chests. 09:31 aosdict: rub the pickaxe on the loadstone, surely? 09:31 They make each other less compelling. 09:31 hmm, I wonder what happens if you rub a loadstone on a cursed touchstone 09:31 YASI: rubbing anything iron on a loadstone breaks the iron item. 09:31 YASillierI: rubbing anything iron on a loadstone magnetises it, causing it to become much heavier and impossible to drop 09:32 Oh, ouch. 09:32 game physics: magnetizing something gives it more mass 09:32 THat's pun physics. 09:32 yes, pun physics 09:34 * aosdict starts a devnull tourist, kitten promptly dies to falling rock trap 09:34 I am so tempted to remove those things from dlvl 1 09:34 unrelatedly: is the existence of clumsy kicking serving any useful purpose? 09:34 how annoyed would people be if I gave them a minimum generation depth of 2 or 3? 09:35 You know, one of the changes Fourk makes that no player has ever complained about, is removing falling rock traps from the first couple of dungeon levels. 09:35 3 seems good 09:35 And it was a _early_ change, too. 09:35 Like, before there was a public server, I think, I had already done that. 09:35 shpingrlde: there are some very fun bugs with it, but I doubt that's intentional; I suspect the original aim was either for flavour, or just to make sure that kicking was generally a bad idea compared to attacking normally 09:37 ais523: there are also arrow traps, dart traps, magic traps, pits, which can also kill starting pets 09:37 here's some boots for kicking, they make kicking cool! unless you have equipment 09:37 aosdict: Those traps are far less _frequent_ early pet killers, though. 09:37 and boulder traps can also generate at DL 2+, well within the range of killing a pet 09:37 aosdict: yes, but falling rock traps are by far the most common cause of that 09:37 these are balanced for player damage, not pet 09:38 also, after the first room, the pet is generally behind you 09:38 so normally it's the player who encounters the trap first 09:38 the very first room of D:1 is an exception here, which is why you get so many reports of pets instantly dying 09:38 Do pets learn about traps if they see you trigger them? 09:38 jonadab: pets are aware of a trap if you're aware of the trap 09:38 Ah. 09:38 Interesting. 09:40 in this case, my pet and I were walking across the 5th room or so and it stepped on a rock trap on a space I hadn't visited. 09:43 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 09:43 the aim isn't to give pets perfect early safety 09:43 just to cut down on the number of ridiculous starts 09:44 Right. 09:44 Also, it's not a bad thing if going deeper into the dungeon introduces new dangers. 09:45 hmm, remember that question a while back about what items you could give your pets? I'm imagining putting a hard hat on your pet cat 09:45 Heh. 09:46 ever tried to put a hat on a pet? they'll just shake it off 09:46 I'd imagine it'd depend on the pet 09:47 I mean IRL 09:47 so do I 09:48 oh lovely, the magic helm in this armor shop was opposite alignment 09:49 hey Boyabai, if you can help me get this helm off, I'll buy your dunce cap and wear that instead 09:49 that'll be useful for Astral then 09:49 assuming you can afford to buy it 09:49 if not you could be in trouble 09:50 am tourist, have money 09:50 also have 18 Cha 09:51 aosdict: People with little foofy dogs dress them up. 09:51 But yeah, probably not so easy with a cat. 09:52 well, I think the dogs in nethack might be *slightly* more hardened killers than little foofy dogs 09:52 especially since the game calls it "little dog" and not "puppy" 09:52 Yes, true. 09:52 I changed that to puppy in Fourk. 09:52 For symetry with kitten. 09:53 jonadab: thus breaking a tradition that's existed ever since the start of Hack? 09:53 CHALLENGE ACCEPTED! Delraven accepted the Pac-Man challenge. 09:54 it'd make more sense to change "kitten", but bloodthirsty killer kittens are hilarious 09:58 DIED: eitbo (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 3394 points, 4313 turns, killed by an orcish arrow on hardfought 09:58 I think "puppy" -> "dog" -> "large dog" makes significantly more sense than "little dog" -> "dog" -> "large dog" 09:59 Chihuahuas don't grow up into dobermans. 10:00 One back-burner project in dnh is to make the uppermost dungeon levels more distinct from lower ones, in the form of 'errosion', the idea being the upper dungeon levels are more exposed to the elements than the lower ones are. 10:00 Which is to say: 10:00 You should make rock traps on shallow levels come 'pre-disarmed', 10:01 Oh, interesting. 10:01 either just generate a pile of rocks, or generate a pile of rocks with a non-functional trap that gives a flavor message. 10:01 more exposed to the elements... also more exposed to hapless adventurers 10:01 you could just use the existing message for a rock trap not functioning 10:01 Or a pre-identified trap with a pile of rocks? (Brogue does pre-identified traps on very early levels, since 1.7.4 IIRC.) 10:01 it could also be a bit more "picked-over" - no lamps or wands or whatn... yeh, what aos said 10:01 aosdict: well according to the typical NetHack plotline, other people have been seeking the Amulet 10:02 so they've probably vandalised the shallow levels already 10:02 That makes sense. 10:02 you could possibly avoid the GwtWoD problems by making monsters on the first few levels generate with 0-charge wands 10:02 because they've already used them all up on previous adventurers 10:02 but! for total flavor sense, there should also be a lot of detritus of dead starting adventurers too, but it doesn't make that much sense to add them 10:02 (Currently, the only thing along these lines in dnh is the dilapitated armory/barracks transition) 10:03 I like the idea of including lots of used-up items, too. 10:03 aosdict: this reminds me of a scumming technique found in AceHack: entering multiplayer mode, inviting a lot of new players into your dungeon, and having them suicide so that you can loot their starting inventory 10:03 For that matter, YANI: you can #untrap falling rock traps, which basically triggers the trap on that space until there are no more rocks. 10:03 Chris_ANG: there was a Dudley's Dungeon comic with a showjunk option 10:03 This can be used to kill stuff 10:04 which added a really large number of bits of broken glass and the like 10:04 don't untrap your pet from a falling rock trap 10:04 aosdict: you can do that with dart traps and the like already, does it not work on rock traps? 10:05 it does not 10:05 That's a good room YANI, actually. Fake bones pile, containing damaged starting equipment from some role. 10:05 but instead of getting a safe pile of rocks deposited on the space 10:05 Chris_ANG: there's one of those on the Rogue level 10:05 you actually repeatedly trigger the trap 10:05 actually, it'd make some sort of sense if falling rock traps only worked once 10:06 and were called something like "unstable ceiling" 10:06 dumping all the remaining rocks on whatever was on the space 10:06 ais523: I think Chris_ANG was going for something much more accessible to starting players 10:06 also, nothing in the Rogue bone pile is any good, except the food 10:06 maybe later in the game (e.g. Gehennom), the trap drops multiple boulders and so blocks the corridor unless you can dig through 10:06 aosdict: I think that's intentional 10:07 True re rogue level.... more fake bones files earlier would make that one less of an oddity, though. 10:07 having falling rock traps scale as the game progresses is a good idea 10:08 heck, doing it to other traps too 10:08 In dnh a player might possibly have a use for the rogue level plate mail, though I don't think anyone's ever used it :/ 10:09 YANI: pit damage increases rather severely towards the late game. 10:09 YASI: bottomless pit 10:09 Deeper pits, designed by demonsto hurt and kill. 10:10 aosdict: YANI: deeper into the dungeon, rust traps use acid, so they can also cause corrosion and acid damage. 10:15 I like that rust trap yani. Makes them a bit more relavant late-game. 10:15 If #untrapped they could also give you potions of acid. 10:15 (useful for variants with acid/gem alchemy) 10:16 Would it be better just to make a different acid trap? 10:16 Probably. 10:19 DIED: jmcunx (Ran-Orc-Fem-Cha), 443 points, 1236 turns, killed by a water moccasin on hardfought 10:19 -!- callforjudgement has joined #hardfought 10:19 -!- ais523 has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:19 -!- callforjudgement is now known as ais523 10:19 hmm, this PDF could really do with a better stylesheet 10:22 Hm. D&D does a lot with monster lairs, while nethack only has a few (l halls, a nests, c nests, and bee hives?) 10:22 Should try to create more nest types. 10:22 (Other variants have (ancient) dragon lairs, right?) 10:22 Fourk's dragon halls. 10:23 I think that monster lairs should perhaps not be filled wall-to-wall with that kind of monster. 10:23 and dork's flagon halls! 10:23 Chris_ANG: also throne rooms 10:23 Also, I guess dilapitated armories are Rust monster/brown pudding lairs 10:23 and treasure zoos (maybe) 10:24 Ah, right re throne rooms. 10:24 "abandoned armory" might be a better name for that 10:24 dilapidated. 10:24 DIED: Tangles (Hea-Gno-Mal-Neu), 7109 points, 8527 turns, killed by a chameleon imitating a soldier ant on hdf-au 10:24 (dnh even has race-specific thone rooms) 10:24 I can probably spell abandoned better than dilapidated, at least. 10:25 I've always wondered whether the misspelling or the mispronunciation came first :D 10:26 they're popular though 10:26 for that word 10:26 DIED: eitbo (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 63 points, 90 turns, killed by an electric shock on hardfought 10:26 and they support each other! 10:27 DIED: elenmirie (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 4763 points, 9840 turns, killed by a giant bat on hdf-eu 10:27 ais523: would, eventually, a role + race + "special" (polymorph, lycantrophy, zombie, whatever) system be a good idea you think? 10:27 i.e. have monsters have 3 permonsts 10:27 one for "role" (the base type) 10:27 one for race 10:27 and one for potential special cases/polyform 10:27