00:00 -!- Elronnd has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:02 YANI: eel wrap 00:04 YANI: shark tempura 00:05 -!- Elronnd has joined #hardfought 00:06 -!- khoR has joined #hardfought 00:11 [nd] huntress (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 1178 points, T:2596, killed by a giant ant, while praying 00:28 -!- Violla has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:58 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:58 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 01:37 -!- Guest65821 is now known as irina|log 01:38 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v irina|log] by ChanServ 01:44 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:49 [nd] munterplant (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed ring of conflict", on T:11578 02:01 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:16 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:21 DIED: k2 (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 16 points, killed by a falling object 02:22 DIED: k2 (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 0 points, killed by a grid bug 02:26 !tell K2 does nottheoracle have the capability to send messages 02:26 Will do, bug_sniper! 02:26 hmm, guess beholder does 02:27 &help 02:27 K2: Message from bug_sniper at 2017-10-17 02:26 EDT: does nottheoracle have the capability to send messages 02:27 &ping - ping! 02:27 &time - Get time remaining 02:27 ¬ify - Send message to tournament staff 02:27 &lastgame/&lastasc - dumplogs from last game for player/server 02:27 &scores - Link to scoreboard 02:27 &servers - List of servers where you can play 02:27 &help - This help. 02:27 wtf, why would it be a good idea if levels were another line shorter? jonadab, FIQ, aosdict: seriously??? levels are small enough already, I wish they could be bigger :/ 02:27 LarienTelrunya: Message from Tarmunora at 2017-10-15 20:43 EDT: Does slex have 'skill caps'? As in, leather hats that boost skill(s) when worn (or lower when cursed/negatively enchanted) 02:27 just tell ziratha to go here for the messages 02:28 !tell Tarmunora__ heh, no, but I guess I could make a hat that improves skill training speed 02:28 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:29 bug_sniper: using the ¬ify will send a msg to myself and Tangles 02:32 EPI: silver porticuli that can still kill you if you're a wereghost 02:34 YANI: #forcing boulders when there's a monster in the way to displace it, or crush it if it's on a hole 02:51 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 02:52 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 02:54 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:54 -!- elenmirie_ is now known as elenmirie 03:03 -!- khoR_ has joined #hardfought 03:06 FIQ: This having to press enter twice when opening my bag is pretty annoying. :c 03:07 acutally itsnot double enter 03:07 its a, b, enter, option 03:07 so 4 inputs to open a bag 03:12 DIED: k2 (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 0 points, zapped himself with a spell 03:13 Oh noes 03:13 I forgot where my stash is 03:13 D: 03:17 Great, this devil is running away with my only weapon 03:17 what the hell do I do now 03:18 ha! got it back 03:19 FIQ: How am I supposed to know there is a stair here. Shouldn't it be highlited red? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/6Umn8DpN/ 03:20 -!- Announcy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20 -!- Announcy has joined #hardfought 03:35 What 03:35 where the hell did this guy come from 03:37 -!- nht has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:37 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 03:40 -!- elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 03:41 So this demon lord came out of nowhere to abruptly end my run 03:41 I dont know what I did wrong 03:41 :| 03:41 It seems so unfair 03:56 [4k] wlkef;awke (flump) (Kni Hum Mal Law), 4230 points, T:1457, killed by a force bolt 04:00 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 04:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 04:05 [fh] Khor (Pri Hum Mal Law) averted death, on T:11570 04:05 What the hell killed me 04:06 something paralyzed me and I instantly die 04:06 this game lol 04:07 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 04:07 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 04:11 FIQ: do bullwips never ever miss? 04:11 this monsters got my excalibur 5 out of 5 times 04:11 this quest is incredibly annoying 04:12 on FIQH 04:12 oh great 04:12 he took another weapon 04:12 ... 04:15 and his whip was even cursed 04:15 which apparently doesnt even matter 04:19 Question, 04:19 isn't there supposed to be a quest artifact? 04:21 Oh... It's here... Randomly lying on the ground... What? 04:27 did something else than you kill the nemesis? 04:54 Nope 04:54 But when I went downstairs the nemesis was already there and did 2 actions before I could even move 04:54 this FIQH seems so broken tbh 04:56 -!- elenmirie has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:03 -!- Porkman has joined #hardfought 05:03 hi 05:03 Hello Porkman, Welcome to #hardfought 05:06 Can I ask a bit of advice please : 05:07 Anyway to increase spell fail rates from a base 12%... I'm wearing crystal plate mail, grandmaster robe, Stormhelm, gauntlets of magic power, and silver dragon scale shield (it's probably gauntlets and shield that penalise me) 05:09 what about the helm, or is that basically a helm of brilliance? 05:10 it's a HOB enchantable to +7 05:10 but I understand only dragon scales give full reflection? 05:11 ie, a dragon blast would hit me unless I have silver dragon scale shield or armor 05:11 (and crystal plate mail lets me use the T-shirt as unihorn - have not found a unicorn yet!) 05:11 also... I did not get a message when picking up the charkam, and the quest leader isnt giving me the second part of the quest 05:20 sorry, this is a variant I don't know :-( 05:20 It' weird you have any trouble at all with that set 05:21 Maybe you can fix it by enhancing the spell school you have trouble with 05:22 even spells on expert 05:23 Then I don't get why you would have issues with % 05:23 sounds weird 05:36 [nd] Raisse (Hea Gno Fem Neu) eschewed atheism, by dropping a dagger on an altar, on T:3092 05:42 -!- nht has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:48 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 05:51 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 05:51 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 06:28 LarienTelrunya: I actuall intend to make the max level size bigger in Fourk, at some point, yes. It's proving to be technically challenging, however. 06:29 LarienTelrunya: The reason ais wants them to be one line shorter is because A) most of them already are anyway (only a handful use that last line) and B) he wants to support 80x24 fully. 06:29 -!- Porkman has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:31 jonadab: 80x25 is the one true terminal size :D 06:40 * jonadab usually plays at about 150x50. 06:40 (Assuming I'm playing a variant that knows what to do with that much space.) 06:48 80x25masterrace 06:52 !who 06:52 FIQ: No current players 06:55 DIED: nht (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 796 points, killed by a rothe 07:00 FIQ: ur variant is poo 07:00 why :( 07:00 I have been raging all morning 07:00 NeroOneTrueKing: your archon isn't paralyzed at least 07:01 I did priest questand now I wanna kill myself 07:01 that's how bad it was 07:01 khoR_: ur face is poo 07:01 khoR_: ok 07:01 tons of monsters with bullwhips that never seem to fail 07:01 Ah, doesn't the priest quest have like a ton of undead? 07:01 demon lords coming out of nowhere 07:01 purple worms that never stop reviving 07:01 ? I didn't change demon summoning mechanics 07:01 getting paralized and instakilled 07:02 going down to the boss lvl and him getting two turns before I can even do a single action 07:02 having to explore all the level because he apparently didnt have the mitre on him 07:02 everything was terrible 07:02 sounds fun 07:03 have you ever played priest quest level in fiqhack? 07:03 Did FIQ even change priest quest at all? 07:03 no 07:03 (Other than indirectly by improving monster AI...) 07:04 I am investigating bullwhip code 07:04 purple worms that never stop reviving sounds like zombie mechanics. 07:04 Actually, hmm. 07:05 Maybe your zombie changes are an issue for the priest quest? 07:05 but 07:05 you can instantly kill zombies 07:05 with turn undead 07:05 as a priest 07:05 Ah. 07:05 and doing this is strongly encouraged 07:05 #turn is one of those things everyone forgets exists. Kind of like #jump 07:05 even in vanilla by the quest layout 07:06 khoR_: yes, bullwhip success is 100% 07:06 Is that symetric? 07:06 Seems like an Arc buff if so. 07:06 unless weapon is welded 07:06 or anheavy iron ball 07:06 jonadab: pretty sure this used to be the case in vanilla, just that I made the monster AI much more willing to do it 07:07 I'll see how it is for the player 07:07 ohb wait 07:07 it isn't guranteed at all 07:08 25% of not getting it 07:08 25% to the floor 07:08 25% to monster's floor 07:09 25% stealing 07:09 So 75% chance it's out of your hands. 07:13 ok 07:13 the way it works for the players 07:13 is very confusing and in some cases even counterproductive 07:13 but it boils down to roughly the same chance or even more likely to steal it 07:14 if high dexterity 07:14 I dont know what is different 07:14 but its way more annoying in FIQH 07:14 I can assure you that 07:14 yes because in vanilla monsters basically never use a bullwhip 07:14 in FIQHack, monsters *always* do if they have a reason to 07:15 I meant the quest in general 07:15 did you use turn undead at all? 07:15 it should easily clear the zombies 07:16 for demons 07:16 you can use wands 07:16 remember that FIQHack buffs them 07:19 I don't _remember_ there being demons on the Priest quest in 3.4.3. Granted, I've only made it there once. 07:19 it has graveyards 07:19 they can have demons 07:19 Yes, I remember graveyards. 07:19 Didn't realize graveyards have demons. 07:22 this is bizarre 07:22 this Archon is not moving 07:22 at all 07:22 but it isn't paralyzed 07:22 what is going on lol 07:23 What is its AI strat? 07:23 let's see 07:23 FIQ: I've had a similar thing happen with pets in slex once, the problem was that the paralysis flag was cleared but another flag (I think mtmp->mcanmove or something) was still zero. The pet in question would just not react to anything anymore. 07:24 yes I did check both flags 07:24 because I did suspect this 07:24 but they're ok 07:28 (chasing mon), target 23,10, muxy 2 07:30 310 07:30 looks ok to me 07:31 EPI: tame monsters have a 1/50000 chance each turn to have their movement rate set to 0. 07:52 the Archon intends to cast haste self 07:52 which is fair 07:52 but why isn't it doing it 07:55 ok so I figured out why it happened 07:55 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:55 but there is a bug here 07:56 the monster was trying to unmaintain a spell 07:56 but the code didn't work properly on monsters 07:56 that is now fixed 07:56 but why? 07:58 ok I think I fixed it 08:00 !tell K2 pushed fixes 08:00 Will do, FIQ! 08:00 NeroOneTrueKing: your archon shouldn't be immobile anymore 08:28 K2: What compiler are you using when you compile Fourk on the server? 08:29 (Also what _version_ of the compiler, and what optimization flags?) 08:33 [nh4] TKirby (tkirby) (Bar Hum Fem Cha), 67312 points, T:19787, killed by a little dog 08:40 -!- lorimer has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:47 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:53 FIQ: Yes, I used it, but it was pretty useless for anything that wasn't a zombie 08:54 There was a suprising ammount of demons 08:54 but zombies is what cause the revivals 08:54 You can check the replay I guess 08:54 not unless the game is over 08:54 well I happened to have a life saving amulet with me 08:54 lucky for me, since it would have sucked to lose the game like that... 09:56 DIED: dgoddard (Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha), 370 points, killed by a magic missile 09:56 -!- hothraxxa has joined #hardfought 09:56 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v hothraxxa] by ChanServ 10:00 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 10:01 YANI: a lamp, that when lit, shows traps in a 3-square range 10:01 either only shows the traps while within its radius, or doesn't provide any light 10:01 three-way function? off, light, traps 10:01 like the lamp my kids used to have that had off, light, UV 10:01 maybe 10:01 interesting idea 10:01 that seems a big complicated though 10:02 raisse: yeah I was thiknking of calling it a UV lamp 10:02 or a different kind of lamp that costs the same as the magic lamp so it's harder to price-ID 10:02 I imagine it would be a charged magical tool but still just display as "a lamp" when unidentified? 10:02 rather like bag of holding and oilskin sack 10:02 * aosdict can hear the groans of players suffering from this years in the future 10:03 EPI: framestutter trap that repeats your moves sometimes, making your game play as though your gpu is inadequete 10:03 aosdict: yes, basically the same as a magic lamp 10:03 by 'charged' do you mean that it has charges, and runs out? 10:03 I was envisioning it runs out the same way a normal lamp does 10:03 raisse: yes, like the 1500 charges of a normal lamp 10:03 with 1k-1.5k charges at the start, unviewable 10:03 can probably be recharged with charging scrolls, but not oil 10:03 ah, so you only turn it on when you're actually expecting traps, like in the mines 10:03 for simplicity, how about it just detects unseen? 10:04 would work for magic portals too ;) 10:04 and hidden doors 10:04 I just thougth of this while running around an unlit map looking for a portal 10:04 You see here a lamp named the Lamp of Never Have To Search Again. 10:04 that seems like a slex fake arti name :p 10:05 but hey, just a thought 10:05 YANI: some sessile invisible monster with a nasty passive attack 10:08 dnh and I think slashem has a teleporting permanently invisible monster 10:08 @d?phantom fungus 10:08 !ping 10:08 rikersan: Pong! 10:15 YANI: a different sort of light source that treats cloud terrain within its radius as if it isn't there. 10:15 Or maybe that could be folded into this new lamp idea as well. 10:20 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:20 [nh4] TKirby (tkirby) (Bar Hum Fem Cha), 31307 points, T:3481, killed by a bugbear 10:21 !who 10:21 Tarmunora__: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2017-10-17 02:28 EDT: heh, no, but I guess I could make a hat that improves skill training speed 10:21 Tarmunora__: rikersan [dnh] tkirby [nh4] 10:27 aosdict: 'x-ray lamp' then for a name? 10:27 also grants astral vision of radius 3, like the eyes of the overworld 10:30 tarmunora, since you seem to be here: is it just me, or is the grandmaster's robe kinda more useful than the robe of the archmagi? 10:30 there are plenty slotless MR artifacts, and there's magicbane 10:30 and the double robe effect seems really nice for wizards 10:32 GM robe also boosts unarmed 10:33 And any artifact robe gives 2x robe effect 10:35 ah ok 10:35 The bigger thing for chaotic monks being gifted it is unrestricting many spell schools to expert 10:35 and yeah I was just wondering how useful that was for a wizard with magicbane 10:35 For a wiz, not that great 10:35 what does it unrestrict? do you know off the top of your head? 10:35 I'll sourcedive otherwise 10:35 But only monks can get it 10:35 or binders I guess 10:35 iirc: attack, matter 10:35 I'll have to try a cheapo monk binder run next time 10:36 w/ eurynome and buer, and the gm robe 10:37 binders cannot get robe of the archmagi, only GM robe 10:37 yea 10:37 only wiz can get the archmagi right? 10:38 Only chaotic monks 10:38 expert_weapon_skill(P_ATTACK_SPELL); 10:38 expert_weapon_skill(P_ENCHANTMENT_SPELL); 10:38 expert_weapon_skill(P_ESCAPE_SPELL); 10:38 expert_weapon_skill(P_MATTER_SPELL); 10:38 With these spell schools unrestricted to expert 10:38 ah cool 10:38 I thouhgt it could still be named by lvl 30 wiz 10:39 The hat can 10:41 !tell NeroOneTrueKing being gifted the artifact crystal sword should unrestrict long sword to expert, not broad sword 10:41 Will do, Tarmunora__! 10:41 rikersan: I like it more as a non-lighting source of detection. Astral vision is too good. 10:41 Plus astral vision doesn't uncover unseen things. 10:42 hm ok 10:42 bonus points: shows black lights :P 10:42 but no other invis monsters 10:42 or maybe all other invis monsters i dunno 10:42 detect unseen by default only shows I 10:43 lol, the robe of the archmagi is still a wizard-favoring robe 10:43 -!- rikersan has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:48 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:48 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 11:12 DIED: khamul (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 3679 points, killed by an owlbear 11:22 -!- Tokage_ has joined #hardfought 11:30 Hey, so word is someone here tried to port GruntHack on Windows at some point? 11:31 I mean no reason for a Windows version of the game to exist somewhere for me to download already - it's not like it's the most popular operating system or anything. 11:34 -!- Tarmunora_ has joined #hardfought 11:34 Nevermind that Nethack itself, SLASH'EM, UnNethack, whatever else I'd like to play, is freely available and perfectly functional from the get-go. 11:36 Feel free to compile a binary yourself 11:36 I'm not a programmer. 11:36 Why does everyone assume I'm a programmer? 11:37 Don't need to be 11:37 I'm just a guy. 11:37 https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Compiling&oldid=99565#On_Windows 11:37 I've tried to make "Hello World!" work on two different occasions over the years. 11:37 Just use Grunt sources, not windows 11:37 Following instructions to the letter. 11:37 It didn't work. 11:38 -!- Tarmunora__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:38 I used to do that stuff like a decade ago, on WinXP. But not only have I forgotten all about that now, I'm also no longer on WinXP - I'm using Win8 now, and I've been told that's even trickier to do anything on. 11:38 There's also the chance that it uses libraries that you don't have. I know that dNAO refuses to compile on windows, mostly because of the lack of a regex library 11:38 I tried to compile GruntHack then, and it didn't work. All it did was to make me frustrated, then infuriated, then in despair. 11:38 It left me lifelong scars. 11:38 Variant devs develop primarily for Linux because that's what public servers use. Even now, Fourk and FIQhack are just getting around to compiling Windows binaries because there's high demand. 11:39 I could die now, and I'd probably stick around and haunt the world until someone helped me make that damn thing work. 11:39 Also I have no idea what most of that stuff means. 11:39 dNethack's last updated binary is... 11:39 You tell me I don't need to be a programmer, but that sounds like programming talk. 11:39 3 years old 11:39 It's like some eldritch tongue unknown to man. 11:39 [nh4] TKirby (tkirby) (Mon Hum Fem Cha), 18631 points, T:560, killed by a giant mimic 11:39 Compiling is dead easy 11:39 I just want to play a game and not go through all these damned hoobs. 11:39 hoops* 11:39 Download the compiler, run the bat files 11:40 I did once, I told you. 11:40 It never compiled. 11:40 I don't want to try again, when I have no reason to think it'd go any better this time. 11:40 If something goes wrong, document the errors and ask the dev (currently Tangles) 11:40 Why can't I just download and play it like I do things like SLASH'EM? 11:40 There's no reason for it to come as a bunch of code I know nothing about. 11:41 Because there isn't a compiled windows binary 11:41 Why? 11:41 No foo.exe file 11:41 Why? 11:41 Because they couldn't find a trusted person to compile on Windows. 11:41 [10:38:57] Variant devs develop primarily for Linux because that's what public servers use. Even now, Fourk and FIQhack are just getting around to compiling Windows binaries because there's high demand. 11:41 Why? It's the most popular operating system. 11:41 **because that's what public servers use** 11:41 And *repeately* compile on Windows, until any problems were fixed and it was releasable. 11:42 Tokage_: Windows is the most popular operating system for *users*. 11:42 Devs, on the other hand, favor Linux, or at least they do in this community. 11:42 But since most of us are users rather than devs, shouldn't they make it Windows compatible? 11:42 Anyway, that's all beside the point - I was told someone here tried it, apparently succeeded. 11:43 Most people play via ssh, which is client-neutral 11:43 I have no idea what that means. What's ssh, and does "client" have something to do with the operating system? 11:44 ssh: secure shell. The protocol that is used to connect to nethack servers 11:44 client: part of the client-server system; the end-user 11:45 Translation: most people play on servers via the internet, and servers don't care what the user is running, so long as they have a valid connection and terminal (the 'screen' the game is displayed on) 11:46 Last time I played one of those - about ten years ago - there was a ridiculous lack, no color, and even setting up numpad and a bunch of other options were behind a ridiculous amount of tweaking. 11:46 lag* 11:47 NA, EU, or other? 11:47 EU. 11:47 Playing Nethack on my own computer afterwards felt like a greased lightning. 11:47 ascension.run would be your best bet. Based out of france 11:47 A greased, iridescent lightning of color. 11:47 But idk if they have grunt 11:47 Oh, ascrun is in France now? I thought it was in Germany. 11:48 Oh right, germany 11:48 I need to stop getting that mixed up 11:48 I think em.slashem.me has GruntHack. 11:48 They do 11:48 Okay, I click the link and the browser doesn't understand the address, or whatever. 11:49 Your best bet on Windows is probably KiTTY, or PuTTY. 11:49 Actually, I'd go with KiTTY, it's more up-to-date on its crypto protocols, and one of the admins on the xd.cm side of things likes to disable weak crypto. 11:51 Whatever this KiTTY is, it's got a lot of funny words I don't understand and no download link. 11:51 -!- Tarmunora__ has joined #hardfought 11:51 Thought so. Grunt uses regex 11:52 http://www.9bis.net/kitty/?page=Download 11:52 Tarmunora__: Ah, yeah, that'll be an obstacle to compiling on Windows. 11:52 Not insurmountable, but it definitely complicates things. 11:53 Clicking the download link gets me a pop-up and directs me to a donation page. 11:53 No download files here. 11:53 It's always worked for me? 11:53 *shrug* Well it doesn't work for me. 11:54 Alright, well, I've never tried it on Windows Eight. 11:54 Apparently I'm the first person in Nethack community ever to use Windows 8. 11:55 -!- Tarmunora_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:55 But in fairness, this didn't work any better for me on XP either. 11:55 I think there are seven people total in the world who use Windows Eight. 11:55 There used to be eight, but one of them upgraded to Ten last month. 11:55 Well, at least I'm unique in some way. 11:55 Almost unique, at any rate. 11:55 Heh. 11:55 I just never saw any reason to move away from it. Everything I want to use on it has always worked fine. 11:56 Like I said, I'm not a programmer or computer-savvy in any way. 11:56 Except GruntHack. 11:56 Except GruntHack. 11:56 Doesn't have anything to do with being a programmer. 11:56 You only need to be a programmer if you want to make changes to how GruntHack works. 11:56 I think our definitions for "programmer" are different. 11:56 As far as I'm concerned, anything including the word "compile" in it is programming stuff. 11:56 A programmer is a person who writes computer programs. 11:57 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 11:57 A "user" is a person who uses that software. 11:57 There's also another category, "sysadmin", which is the guy who installs the software. 11:57 But most users are their own sysadmin, at least at home. 11:57 Err, or a family member. 11:57 Well, I'm not a sysadmin either. 11:57 I use Win10 11:57 I _have_ a Ten system. 11:58 I mostly use Devuan. 11:58 I guess I was a sysadmin once, but that was a long time ago and on a different system, and I've forgotten all about it now. 11:59 I still do want to figure out how to get regex to work with mingw 11:59 All jokes aside, I'm pretty sure Windows as a whole is still the most popular system. And I've played the exact same Nethack file through Win98, XP, 7, and now 8, without any fuss - apart from not installing GruntHack. 11:59 So if anyone in the world ever compiled the thing on any of those systems, it should work for me. 11:59 And I'm still just baffled that no one would ever have done that. 12:00 The issue is that Grunt is (presumably) developed off of (some of) the NAO patches, which were /exclusively/ designed to run on a linux server 12:00 Why? 12:00 You'd think getting it to work on Windows would be a number one priority. 12:00 Why which? Why was Grunt developed from NAO, or why was NAO designed for a server? 12:00 Hell, I haven't even found a downloadable Linux version of the game. 12:00 NAO was designed for a server because that was the whole reason it was developed. 12:00 Grunt used NAO stuff because players _like_ the NAO features because they are useful. 12:01 ALso, I think Grunt was developing mainly for public server. 12:01 As aosdict and I explained above, most people play off of servers 12:01 Which I can't seem to download. 12:01 And even if I could, it'd probably be slow and colorless. 12:01 LarienTulrunya: Did you get my YASI about 'skill caps'? 12:01 I think we're being trolled. 12:02 I swear I'm not trolling. Just think of me as your grandmother or someone else that's completely ignorant about computers and needs his hand to be held. 12:02 A grandmother with a seven-year scar that's being opened. 12:02