00:06 -!- Menche_ has joined #hardfought 00:08 [nd] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Thoth, on T:2999 00:09 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:11 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 00:11 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 00:17 [nd] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 1599 points, T:3876, killed by a killer bee 01:31 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:31 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 01:39 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 01:39 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 01:39 [nd] munterplant (Val Hum Fem Law), 1380 points, T:1446, killed by a mind flayer 01:40 thats an early ass mindflayer 01:41 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:44 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:47 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 01:48 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:51 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Thoth, on T:3049 01:52 aosdict: re your idea of trashing unskilled weapons by reducing their damage even more: what's wrong with the vanilla behavior anyway? the flat -4 to-hit is enough of a penalty already! 01:52 LarienTelrunya: Message from aosdict at 2017-10-04 19:18 EDT: so you hate the unskilled 25% to-hit cap in unnethack and others, what would you think if it were changed to 25% damage, minimum 1, and the hits still counted for training? 01:53 also, at least in vanillaoids, an attack that does only 1 damage will not train the skill, so this change would make it nearly impossible to reach basic in daggers or other low-damage weapons 01:55 anyway, my opinion is that the unskilled nerf is completely unnecessary and the world would be a better place without it :D 02:01 LarienTelrunya: "and the hits still counted for training", so it wouldn't be any harder to train than just a flat -4 to-hit, and much easier than a capped 25% chance to hit 02:01 would the "it takes 100 instead of 20 successful attacks" still apply too, which is IMHO similarly unnecessary? 02:02 * Tarmunora_ shrugs 02:03 I don't keep up with all this "overhaul this, rework that" talk 02:08 -!- nht has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:08 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 02:11 oh, apparently letting Rodney handle things for you in dnethack's sanctum *is* a valid strategy, will have to keep an eye out since who knows whether that will still be the case next Junethack? 02:11 Probably it will be removed, complete with a "nyah-nyah you have to fight the elder priest yourself" message if the player character is named AmyBSOD. :P 02:14 Pets work too 02:15 As does punching him in the face 2-3 times 02:16 the latter is what I tried, and he tentacled to tentacle me 200 times because I was not wearing a ring of free action (had to swap thanks to him summoning 200 pits and 50 umber hulks and xorns everywhere) and then I died. 02:17 Ring of Free Action never leaves my finger 02:17 Hmm 02:17 I should bug Chris about making free action less required 02:17 ah, forgot to mention that my cloak of magic resistance was destroyed by the [redacted] tentacles of course, otherwise that would have protected me from the paralysis spell 02:18 As it is, there are 3 sources: Ring, ODSM, and artifacts 02:18 unless dnethack changed it so that MR doesn't protect against that 02:19 No idea 02:19 [slex] GagarinX (Fig Pol Fem Neu) shouted "nooooooo", on T:2517 02:19 looks like the dnethack author took a vacation from coding it 02:19 He teaches(?) for most of the year 02:20 I see 02:20 And just vanishes off the face of the earth 02:22 Like, between Dec 11, 2016 and May 27, 2017, he was assumed to have quietly died in his sleep 02:22 Since he never once popped up to say hi or anything 02:22 * Tarmunora_ grumbles 02:22 [slex] GagarinX (Fig Pol Fem Neu) shouted "lul", on T:2527 02:23 maybe Chris got tentacled by his own elder priest one time too many? 02:23 -!- khoR has joined #hardfought 02:23 Maybe! 02:26 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:32 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 02:32 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 02:47 [slex] GagarinX (Fig Pol Fem Neu) shouted "huzzah", on T:3013 02:50 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:03 YASI: potions can be generated diluted, and using diluted potions in alchemy just flat out doesn't work. Polymorphing a diluted potion will make it into another diluted potion. 03:06 wow, I've never seen that level before 03:06 whoops wrong channel 03:07 Evil Patch idea: a trap that, when triggered, spawns a hostile monster next to you and paralyzes you for a few turns. 03:08 EPI addendum: can also be an effect of a trapped container or door. *evil grin* 03:19 What, did I see that right? Yellow lights are only light radius 1 in vanilla? In SLASH'EM they have a radius of 3 tiles :D 03:34 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Thoth, on T:3537 03:35 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) consumed animal products for the first time, by eating a goblin corpse, on T:3579 03:38 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:4287 03:49 Evil Patch idea: drudding. D glyph, stats like a black dragon, can breathe disintegration, but also has a passive corrosion attack and can split like a black pudding. 03:56 -!- nht has quit [Quit: nht] 04:02 Passive disintegration attack is more evil. 04:22 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:53 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 04:53 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 05:06 K2: so did you update fh like the bot hinted at? :) 05:06 cool, you did 05:27 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Thoth, on T:1480 05:37 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 05:37 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 05:43 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:48 [nd] elagabalus (Pri Hum Fem Neu) performed her first genocide (master mind flayer), on T:16476 06:06 oh look, my cleaver stuff made it into NH3 06:07 What stuff? 06:07 oh, you mean taking out multiple enemies with one mighty heave of the axe? 06:07 cool! 06:07 yeah, that 06:08 khoR: cleaver now hitting in an arc 06:08 now I want to play a barbarian... 06:08 That was in dnh also right? 06:08 Or was it fourk? 06:09 FIQ: you should ask the vanilla devteam whether you may join, considering how influential your ideas have apparently become :D 06:10 a single commit counts as influental now? :p 06:11 khoR: 4k has some stuff that is similar to it yeah allthough different code 06:12 LarienTelrunya: I don't even have a dat/history entry :P 06:12 Look at FIQ all grown up 06:12 he is a real man now 06:12 lol 06:15 FIQ: yeah, but you've also submitted a lot of other reports to the devteam; if they actually decide to make player monsters conflict-proof then from that point on you'll count as a devteam member for me, no matter whether they really make you one :D 06:15 heh 06:15 hopefully they won't implement the wand destruction patch in 3.6.0! 06:15 they didn't 06:16 and they wont for 3.6.1 either, it counts as a major gameplay change 06:18 FIQ: Wait, the Cleaver cleaving stuff is originally from FIQHack? 06:18 yes 06:18 "Based on code by Fredrik Ljungdahl" 06:19 also if one compares the fh commit 06:19 Oh nice. 06:19 it's clearly the same code 06:19 I didn't know FIQHack had it. 06:19 FIQ: Great idea! 06:19 FIQ: I really love it. 06:19 :) 06:20 undead turning scaling on level might also have originated from fiqhack, but it might also have been made independently 06:20 but yeah, that's the only things fh has that made it into NH3 06:21 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Thoth, on T:5849 06:22 FIQ: not sure if you missed me saying that, but I tested your pet AI "fix" and felt it made things worse, since with it pets are following too closely, all the time! and it's ultra annoying if there's several pets in a narrow corridor and you can't displace them because you're confused/stunned/punished! :P 06:23 LarienTelrunya: but that is what the original code intended 06:23 it was just completely broken 06:23 if you dislike it, you can change the pet AI to account for it 06:24 and what if I actually like the "broken" behavior? 06:24 then don't pull the fix? 06:24 simple 06:24 if you like the broken, tedious behaviour 06:25 you don't need to fix it 06:27 LarienTelrunya: you might want to consider pulling the tin whistle stuff from my 3.6.x PR and leash stuff though 06:27 if a player uses a leash, he/she clearly wants it close 06:43 leashed pets generally tend to behave very stupidly :P 06:43 guess why 06:44 also, it seems impossible to make a leashed pet follow without the leash snapping loose if the pet is very slow, e.g. a lichen! 06:45 uh, hello? 06:45 what did my fix do again? :p 06:46 my 3.6.0 PR is more conservative than my dnh one 06:46 if you remove the distance check 06:46 you should end up with some of the benefits of the fix 06:46 without making it essentially "turned on" at all times 06:47 well yeah, but the problem is that if the pet walks slower than you do, simply walking down a corridor will result in it falling too far behind and the leash snaps loose 06:47 and that happens regardless of whether mtrack is used ;) 06:47 of course, but the leash thing in 36x fixes pets behaving strangely with leashes even at normal or faster speed 06:48 I'll test what happens if I disable the mtrack code when either the pet is leashed or the player used a tin whistle recently 06:48 also see tin whistle code 06:48 yeah 06:49 You kill the giant spider! What a mess! 06:49 well yes, that usually happens when you kill giant spiders 06:50 a few days ago I went into my room and saw a big spider sitting on the desk, right in front of the monitor :) 06:51 I usually catch them in a glass and put them outside 06:51 but then I'm not scared of spiders at all 06:51 yeah, me neither, sometimes I even catch them by hand but in this case I also used a glass 06:51 (my daughter is, and when I stayed with her for a couple of days when she'd been in hospital I had to evict all spiders from the bathroom before she could use it) 06:52 I stopped catching spiders by hand after one bit me and made my hand swell up for a couple of days 06:52 all spiders are venomous of course, that's how they eat 06:53 but apparently this one was too stupid to understand that I wasn't food 06:53 ;) 06:56 heh 07:15 jonadab: what you're seeing in dcss is its lovely scaledown of damage 07:15 meaning enemies generally don't do too much damage 07:15 but suddenly they hit like a truck 07:15 it's great 07:15 makes it impossible to judge threats properly 07:15 does that smell like an evil patch idea? :P 07:16 Evil Patch idea: monsters have a 1% chance of a "critical hit" that does double damage, and if such a critical hit is rolled, a 10% iterative chance to double the result again, or some other exploding dice madness. 07:19 actually, I think I'll just make an "exploding dice trap" in slex, and then monster-versus-player damage rolls use a kind of exploding dice to determine their damage. 07:22 why not make player-vs-monsters also do it if monsters step o nit 07:24 yo know the answer to that :P (it reads "this aint fiqslex") 07:26 :P 07:27 aosdict: so regarding forcibly putting strangulation on monsters 07:27 for consistency this should be a thing for all amulets 07:53 yes, but I can't imagine why you would want to do it for any of the others except maybe restful sleep 07:54 unchanging for pets 07:54 reflection/life saving for pets 07:54 also magical breathing 07:54 versus poison 07:54 etc etc 07:59 oh 08:00 !tell K2 FIQHack updated, now monsters will properly understand what spells they can cast again, most importantly Rodney will once again use Double Trouble 08:00 Will do, FIQ! 08:00 I'm going to post an incomplete bard proposal today, it will contain relevant stuff for that 08:00 namely, the player has access to all pets' inventories 08:00 dnethack does that too 08:00 with #loot and #equip 08:01 (loot allows you to remove stuff from pets, equip allows you to (de)equip pets 08:01 *(un)equip 08:20 [nh4] munterplant (Val Hum Fem Law), 5364 points, T:40, quit 08:24 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 08:24 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 08:26 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:33 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:37 ais523: haha the wizard dnethack harassment YASI 08:37 blessing things instead of cursing it 08:38 If it were really evil, he'd choose whether to bless or curse depending on what it is. BoH? Curse it. Potion of gain level? Bless it. 08:40 I'm glad that at least 2 people are keeping track of my lists :) 08:41 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 08:41 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 08:41 aosdict: I was thinking that cavemen would be the ones to get a berserk effect, but I guess it does make more sense for barrbarians 08:41 (mostly because cavemen currently get shafted) 08:42 FIQ: well, since Cleaver just got a Bar buff in vanilla, maybe it could be transferred to cavemen 08:43 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43 aosdict: btw, have you heard about jonadab's and my idea to changing mummies making them more interesting? 08:43 make them not generate randomly 08:44 but have special "mummy rooms" that are empty except perhaps some kind of hint that it is one, with a powerful, but always cursed, item inside 08:44 highly enchanted things, or with object properties, or stuff like markers, etc 08:44 but picking it up surrounds you with mummies 08:44 who can curse your inventory 08:44 I assume the mummies are stronger than normal... yeah 08:44 No, I never heard that, where did it get brought up? 08:45 yani: ^^^ 08:45 and interacting with the item in any way -- teleportation, fetching it using a pet, or similar, causes it as well 08:45 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 08:45 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 08:45 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:45 jonadab: where was this brought up? 08:45 perhaps in #nhfourk 08:46 I think at some point you could let mummies generate randomly in graveyards, maybe below the Castle. But yes, they could be exempt from the normal generation. 08:46 FIQ: I have a note in my todo-fourk that gives the channel and date. 08:47 aosdict: possibly they could generate randomly in Gehennom, and be part of the graveyard generation (like now), yes 08:48 YANI: create "crypt" subrooms of graveyards which have locked doors but contain very out-of-difficulty mummies 08:49 this would require of course that very out-of-difficulty mummies exis 08:49 exist* 08:50 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 08:50 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 08:50 aosdict: regarding berserk, yeah, but it makes more flavour sense for bar to have it 08:50 perhaps cavemen can get something else 08:50 definitely 08:51 both? 08:51 one thing I wanted to do as part of ability implementation in FIQHack 08:51 was to give more passive and active benefits to each role 08:52 kinda like SLASH'EM's #technique 08:53 okay, so what were these benefits 08:53 #innate 08:53 ? 08:54 Grasshopper: currently accessible in FIQHack (master) using M 08:54 (#monster) 08:54 like, a Paladin that can cast "healing" or "extra healing" as an innate ability - like spells, but gets around spell casting restrictions 08:54 aosdict: that is the thing :P I haven't come up with them all properly yet 08:54 but I was thinking stuff like a stealing ability for Rogues 08:55 and berserk for barbarians 08:55 etc 08:55 yeah, lotsa stuff 08:55 deep listening for cavemen? 08:55 like another spell menu 08:55 lets you pinpoint monsters in warning range? 08:55 Grasshopper: http://home.fiq.se/abil.png 08:56 Grasshopper: I believe the idea was to move these things and #pray onto its own menu 08:56 ah, makes sense 08:57 (the default view is using an ability, apparently the screenshot is after having pressed ? for a description) 08:57 are you opposed to stealing any of these abilities from SLASH'EM, if they fit and would be balanced? 08:57 and you get that with #monster? 08:57 aosdict: no 08:57 Grasshopper: yes 08:57 aosdict: however slash'em's techniques tend to be very poorly balanced 08:58 right 08:58 also the UI is not good 08:58 (it's very unclear when and how often you can use abilities) 08:59 a revamp would be a good thing 09:05 [nd] Grasshopper (Hea Gno Mal Neu) entered Gehennom, on T:53382 09:07 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:07 [nd] munterplant (Val Hum Fem Law), 855 points, T:1345, killed by a gnome lord, while sleeping 09:19 ais523: the game defines a max limit of autopickup to 1000, but the options UI doesn't enforce this 09:19 *autopickup rules 09:21 also the game seems to have crashed upon adding around 30k rules 09:23 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:23 and apparently you did too 09:24 sorry 09:30 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9] 09:32 * aosdict gives FIQ a potion of levitation and a kitchen sink 09:36 Adding 28470 autopickup rules crashes the game 09:37 http://sprunge.us/SiTQ 09:44 -!- Menche_ is now known as Menche 09:56 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 10:15 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:15 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 10:24 YANI: wielding a candle gives it a light radius of 3 when lit. 10:25 YANI: hitting enemies with a lit candle has an 80% chance to extinguish the flame and a 20% chance to light the enemy on fire, doing 2d3 fire damage. 10:28 YANI: a lit candle can be applied to an adjacent large burnable object (door, tree, wood golem, paper golem) to catch it on fire. 10:36 I support all 3 of those yanis. 10:36 I do not support 1 10:36 2 and 3 is good 10:37 why not 1? 10:40 why would a light become brighter depending on how you are carrying it? 10:40 hmm 10:40 this is going to be fun 10:40 I am about to change the convention of command result returns 10:41 For the commands in the game 10:41 Every single one of them 10:41 because presumably wielding it means you're holding it aloft, instead of attaching it to your belt or something. 10:41 instead of 0 meaning it took no time and everything else meaning it took time 10:42 (this raises the question: how *does* the player carry around lit candles not in their hands without their clothes catching fire or something?) <-- EPI 10:42 have CMDRES_NOTIME mean, well, it took no time, CMDRES_TIME that it took time, CMDRES_DIED that you died as a result (only reachable for monsters in practice), CMDRES_OCCUPATION that an occupation is still going on 10:47 aosdict: YASI: if you throw a potion of oil and a fire elemental is in its path, it becomes lit as it passes through. 10:48 heh 10:49 do thrown objects pass right through unsolid monsters, then? 10:49 nice patch idea: genies should have a chance to drop a scroll of wishing or wand of wishing when killed 10:50 YASI: water elementals should count as unsolid. Clearly, they are liquid. 10:50 aosdict: I don't know, they probably should. 10:50 bug_sniper: let me just reverse genocide djinni a couple dozen times, then 10:51 bug_sniper: YANI: if you kill a djinni, all future djinn will spawn hostile. 10:51 actually, they can't be revgenoed, never mind. 10:51 ah 10:52 NH4 already has nh_command_status 10:52 that should work well for my purposes as long as I just tweak it a bit 10:52 YANI: Add rare drops to some of the monsters 10:52 And with rare I mean really rare 10:53 khoR: Like one time in ten thousand kills, or like one time in ten thousand games? 10:53 Like maybe 0,X% 10:54 of a monster dropping some artifact that you can only get that way 10:54 you can't geno (so not revgeno) any & afaik 10:57 khoR: that already kind of exists with liches and athames. It doesn't work too well. 10:57 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 10:57 aosdict: athames aren't that useful though, aside from elbereth 10:57 What's wrong with liches and athames? 10:58 so most players don't go out of their way to find one 10:58 something like an artifact might work 10:58 The problem with liches and athames is, everyone blessed-genocides L at first opportunity, unless going for genoless. 10:58 as a valkyrie, archliches are easy to kill 10:59 YASI/EPI: killing 119 of a monster drops a powerful artifact weapon that instakills 10:59 bug_sniper: yes, but they can cause a lot of annoyance in the 1-2 turns before you kill them.\ 10:59 bug_sniper: still worth geno'ing though 10:59 curse items is no fun >:U 11:00 Also, if you don't quite one-shot them, they warp to the up stairs. And they have an annoying tendency to occur on non-teleport levels, so you can't follow immediately. 11:00 can you recharge your magic marker and write scrolls of remove curse endlessly? 11:00 So you end up needing to levelport up past them to get to the level above them... 11:00 bug_sniper: magic markers can be recharged once. 11:00 bug_sniper: yes but that's really really annoying 11:00 I have changed return conventions of 2 commands so far 11:00 only around 98ish left :D 11:00 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00 and a blessed rmv curse scroll would remove all curses in open invent 11:00 "a blessed short sword named Soldierslayer" 11:01 and only one soldier left to slay 11:01 When I start with a wimpy weapon, I tend to #name it Newtsbane. 11:01 raisse: for bonus points make them nameable when entirely extinct, do less damage (1/4?) to all monsters not their type, and always have a weak base item 11:01 sounds like beholders from grunthack are worse 11:01 i.e. a "thoroughly rusty thoroughly corroded lockpick named Puddingslayer" 11:01 bug_sniper: beholders don't warp though do they? 11:02 bug_sniper: Well, yes. 11:02 rikersan: They don't need to. They have non-reflectable gaze attacks. 11:02 jonadab: yes! 11:02 jonadab: ah I see 11:02 > As in other variants, covering your eyes makes it nearly harmless with the exception of a relatively weak bite attack. 11:02 >_> tha'ts not that bad 11:02 jonadab: thats cute :3 11:02 I had a dagger that I called Jackalbane when it turned out I could almost always instakill jackals with it 11:02 arch-liches have this odd tendency to stay out of range and just keep casting 11:02 lol 11:03 (determined in a shop that it was in fact +4) 11:03 rikersan: If you think arch-liches do that, try a hostile titan. They cast Summon Nasties pretty much every turn, never get close to you. 11:03 that will kill any jackal you hit, I suppose, don't they have d4 HP? 11:03 @le?titan 11:03 titan (H) | Lvl: 16 | Diff: 24 | Spd: 18 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 70 | Generates: special | AC: -3 | Attacks: 2d8 weapon physical, 3d8 cast spell | Alignment: 9 | Flags: genocidable, omnivore, flies, infravisible 11:03 @n?titan 11:03 @nh?titan 11:04 @v?titan 11:04 titan (H) | Lvl: 16 | Diff: 20 | Spd: 18 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 70 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: -3 | Attacks: 2d8 weapon physical, 0d0 cast spell | Alignment: 9 | Flags: omnivore, flies, infravisible 11:04 I see what you mean when they tell you not to genocide giants to avoid having lots of titans 11:04 I think it's because they're lower-level than arch-liches, so they don't have as many higher-level spells to cast, so Summon Nasties comes up more often. 11:04 Because they don't have stuff like touch of death. 11:04 even the medusa titan can be very annoying if it gets the chance to summon 11:05 I agree with ais523's dungeon proposal in that the titan seems out of place there 11:05 I think titan is just about the ideal for summoner farming. 11:05 jonadab: titans are annoying yes but I can usually tele to them 11:05 or wand of death 11:05 I'd much rather fight a titan than a master or arch lich solely because of the teleportation 11:05 but liches are unliving 11:05 and yeah, titans don't warp 11:05 rikersan: You can't teleport on Medusa's Island. 11:05 jonadab: huh I've only seen 1 titan there 11:06 and he was easy to kill 11:06 But yes, the lack of warping is another reason it's harder to get close to them: they don't warp to you. 11:06 is it only on one of the variations? 11:06 rikersan: Yes, one of the 2 variations in 3.4.3 11:06 1 of I think 4 in 3.6 11:06 and one of the 4 (I think ) in 11:06 yes, that. 11:06 raisse: there were _entire_ sections of strategy guides about how to choose a starting alignment based on that stupid titan 11:06 I've played 3.4.3 and variants thereof much more than I've played 3.6 11:07 lawful, so it's likely to be peaceful 11:07 Eh, Excalibur is a better reason to lawful. 11:07 yes 11:07 also Grayswandir 11:07 dwarf arc ftw 11:08 -!- rikersan has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:08 (arc is the only role that can get expert in saber, right?) 11:09 jonadab: Yes, but for strategy aimed at people who don't know how to pick an alignment yet, if a single monster nearly halfway through the dungeon is notable enough to discuss, something has gone wrong. 11:09 I'm scared of playing my priest 11:09 im reaching the point where you usually die helplessly 11:10 jonadab: Yes, but for strategy aimed at people who don't know how to pick an alignment yet, if a single monster nearly halfway through the dungeon is notable enough to discuss, something has gone wrong. 11:10 what other monsters are there like that? 11:10 none 11:10 that was my poin 11:10 point* 11:10 air elementals 11:10 no, they're never peaceful 11:11 afaik 11:11 I've seen peaceful water and earth elementals but don't remember the others 11:11 mind flayers 11:11 and plus, you didn't have a 50% chance (at the time) of seeing a guaranteed threatening air elemental at some point 11:11 mind flayers are never peaceful either 11:11 unless you tame them 11:13 I see at as an extension of picking Lawful for the anti-archonstorm -- fewer hostile nasty spellcasters, just that this one appears 1/2 through the game and not in the endgame. 11:13 and that slashem q that has a gaze of death 11:13 (well, also in the endgame, but before then too) 11:24 FIQ, jonadab: bard proposal draft posted: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Phol_ende_wodan/BardScratchpad 11:24 aosdict: archonstorms don't happen for lawful 11:24 s 11:24 another reason to go lawful 11:25 you can overgeno with impunity 11:30 FIQ: the problem is that there was, in 3.4.3, a 50% chance of a hostile titan appearing before you might be reasonably prepared to deal with one. 11:30 my reaction to a hostile titan is to take one step and zap a wand of digging down 11:30 Yes, there are later-game effects to determine alignment choices, like the Force and using HoOA on high altars. 11:31 But the titan was a problem because of where he appeared, and because he had such a high probability to appear. 11:43 aosdict: simple fix 11:44 make the other variant have a master lich :P 11:44 how about no 11:46 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:48 aosdict: elves start with an instrument 11:48 so they should probably be able to reach at least basic 11:48 regardless of role 11:50 aosdict: You know NetHack has occupations already, right? 12:00 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 12:10 FIQ: Or a deep ettin? 12:12 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:39 [sp] k2 (Pri Hum Mal Law), 35707 points, T:10048, killed by a watchman 13:06 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:06 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 13:25 jonadab: yes 13:26 EPI: the Medusa's Island level always has a werekraken in the water. 13:32 w-werekraken? 13:33 aosdict: IMO there should be 1 major monster of each alignment that you can't genocide 13:33 Archon for lawful, deep ettin for neutral, arch-lich for chaotic 13:36 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:46 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 13:46 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 13:52 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:52 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 13:52 -!- khoR has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 14:01 FIQ: I know it has the concept of them, as well as a stop_occupation() function, though I didn't think anyone except FIQhack called them that 14:02 It almost certainly doesn't have the concept of multi-level interrupts with an option controlling which level to interrupt on, though. 14:04 -!- tacco has joined #hardfought 14:12 Neko-chan: Guess what kind of "help" it summons. 14:12 (._.') 14:12 sounds very scary 14:13 probably something like ;;@;; 14:13 Looks about right. 14:15 aosdict: NH4+variants all call it occupations 14:16 FIQ: NH4 doesn't have multiple priority levels for interruptions, though. Something either interrupts the current occupation, or else it doesn't. 14:22 jonadab: yeah, I was just planning it for bard at first, but then realized there was no reason to limit a good QoL thing to one role 14:22 jonadab: oh I fixed that in FIQHack 14:22 -!- Tarmunora has joined #hardfought 14:22 you can now instead of using action_interrupted 14:22 use a new function, interrupt_occupation() 14:23 that takes a bitmask of what occupations to interrupt 14:23 FIQ: can you tame player monsters in FIQhack? pretty sure you can't in vanilla 14:23 aosdict: Not currently no, which I consider a bug 14:23 I want it to be possible with some prerequisities 14:23 Once I figure out what those are 14:23 taming dead adventurers to continue their quest for the Amulet of Yendor seems neat 14:24 yep 14:24 one cool feature nethack has 14:24 is that undeadturning a player corpse 14:24 will draw the ghost to the corpse, and confuse it briefly 14:24 so I figured 14:24 tame the ghost (which works) 14:24 and then revive the corpse 14:24 FIQ: Vanilla nethack has that? 14:24 but apparently it untames it... 14:24 yep 14:24