00:04 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:04 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 00:04 first time playing on a server instead of locally, do I just copy-paste my desktop's defaults.nh file into rcedit? 00:05 you'll generally want to copy from someone else's 00:08 no tilesets I assume 00:10 there is a thing for playing tiles on NAO via your browser, but I don't think it works that well 00:10 ASCII is better anyway! 00:11 I kinda like the old-school JRPG feel that Dawnhack gives 00:11 oh well, I can live without 00:11 -!- CharlesBrown has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:13 [nd] k2 (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 1291 points, T:2895, killed by an iguana, while frozen by a monster's gaze 00:14 Jendic: yes, using rcedit is the fastest way to copy over your config file 00:14 esp if its large 00:15 no tilesets via hterm (i need to remove that as an option) 00:21 EPI: new BigRoom variant: you start surrounded by several-tile-thick solid rock; while you dig out, the monsters get to play in the polytraps. 00:21 Jendic: ASCII is even more oldschool! 00:22 -!- Jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 00:24 ok tileset in hterm is disabled, no longer mislead ppl thinking they can choose one 00:24 dammit this can't be my first AND last devnull tournament :( 00:26 hey 00:26 Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought 00:26 better just one then none at all 00:30 yes you are right 00:30 I just didn't realize it might be the last until I read hardfoughts latest post just now 00:30 aaahhh 00:30 It makes me sad that I was introduced to this game so late sometimes 00:30 its all good 00:31 we're already talking about doing our own unique tournament for next year 00:31 and if it goes over well, who knows how long it'll go 00:31 Until people stop playing I suppose :P 00:32 But I assume there will always be people who will want to play 00:32 haha yeah 00:33 got into this right before 3.6.0 got released 00:33 me right after 00:33 did my part to build up hearse's bones file library for 3.6.0, been playing off and on ever since 00:35 I played religiously until I ascended right before junethack and then I got really into that of course 00:36 I've been trying to beat dynahack but I've also been very distracted by real life 00:36 So I haven't been able to play too much lately 00:36 I've never ascended 00:36 at least not yet! 00:36 hmm, what does Error: Empty statement mean and how do I fix it? 00:37 :-/ no idea 00:38 says I goofed my config file somehow 00:39 there we go 00:39 forgot to put a space after commenting something out--never had that problem locally 00:39 doh 00:44 Jendic: you'll ascend someday ;) 00:44 took me about 20 yrs of playing off/on before i finally did 00:44 probably would've by now if Eve Online hadn't sucked me in 00:45 MMO's are the worst 00:45 biggest time suck ever 00:45 ugh I got sucked into wow for about 18 months 00:45 never again 00:45 you really need to find the right group of people to hang with 00:45 I was testing out paxed's new statushilite changes. now my 3.6.0 build complains all the time and won't use the statushilites :( 00:45 but they can be a real blast 00:46 and both of those statements go double for Eve 00:46 i know the grind 00:46 but with good people it's fun 00:46 aosdict: i got mine to work - https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/nhdev/k2.nhdevrc 00:46 cherry pick the status hilites section 00:46 I dunno, I've been gaming pretty much my whole life 00:46 I'll do that too 00:47 K2: yeah, it works for 3.6.1, but now I can't use the same nethackrc for both 3.6.0 and 3.6.1 00:47 any of you ever play the MMO known as dark age of camelot? was before world of warcraft but after everquest 00:47 this is only a problem on my local machine of course 00:47 had 3 way PvP (or known as realm vs realm) 00:48 aosdict: yeah the statushilites is different enough between the two version, they are not compatible 00:48 sounds really familar 00:49 i played DAoC for 1.5 yrs solid 00:49 DAoC was before my time but I've heard mighty good things about it 00:49 had just broken up with my gf at the time 00:49 -!- raisse is now known as raissef 00:49 do OPTION and OPTIONS both work? 00:49 woke up, played, went to work, came home, played, went to sleep. rinse repeat for 1.5 yrs 00:49 -!- raissef is now known as raisse 00:49 agh! I hate early potion shops >:O 00:49 raisse: i think it has to be OPTIONS 00:49 then you have to change all of those in yours, too 00:50 I used OPTION in my config, it's working just fine 00:50 in that case they both work 00:50 ooooh hah look atthat 00:50 i have both 00:50 didnt even notice 00:51 all this time and i didnt notice 00:51 I edited out all those S'es for nothing 00:51 well not really 00:51 if you are like me, you'll want them all to conform 00:52 be the same 00:52 guess what I am about to go do 00:52 you poor bastard 00:53 hah! you're probably thinking 'he's going to go edit his cfg and make OPTIONS all the same' 00:53 WRONG 00:53 i am going to go pour another drink 00:53 THEN go and edit my cfg to make it all the same 00:54 woo it works 00:54 you guys use OPTIONS? all the cool kids use POTIONS 00:54 \o/ 00:55 YASI: allow the options file to parse POTIONS= as equivalent to OPTIONS= 00:57 I'll tweak the colors (and possibly the percentages) a bit 00:59 reading backlog, personally I found devnull inferior anyway 00:59 no offense to krystal or hdf people 00:59 I just prefer variant play :) 00:59 4x10 hardware store on level 3 00:59 sweet! 01:00 !lotg Jendic 01:00 May the Luck of the Grasshopper be with you always, Jendic! 01:00 inferior to junethack, I mean 01:00 i always throw coins down each row to check for mimics 01:00 wise 01:00 especially early on when they can kill me so easily 01:01 FIQ: i've always had more fun with junethack as well. but /dev/null does have its place 01:01 !asc 01:01 argh, Beholder doesn't know that 01:01 I'm pretty sure I ascended a priest and a wizard 01:02 raisse: try to lure K2 into work fixing it :P 01:02 on hardfought, that is 01:02 raisse: there's always scoreboard 01:02 yes 01:02 but that's a hassle 01:02 if i try to add !asc, i'll break something that Tangles will have to fix 01:03 i've done that enough to him already 01:03 and I'm not obliged to play all roles so I can just start another wizard to celebrate the new hilite_status 01:03 K2: ah 01:03 so you're the one that breaks everything 01:03 ssssshhhh 01:03 and Tangles is the one that rebuilds it all 01:03 you complement each other well :) 01:03 hah 01:05 K2: vorpal exploit isn't fixed in 361 yet 01:05 raisse: seriously, hitpointbar in vanilla 01:06 eeeeeEEEEE 01:06 FIQ yup 01:06 just saying ;) 01:06 I don't use it because it distracts me 01:06 hehehe 01:06 yet another moving object at the edge of my field of vision 01:06 stupid pet, get out of the store and quit messing up everything 01:06 raisse: ah, in the NH4 UI you can't turn it off 01:06 Do we not already have !asc? Hmm.... 01:07 that can't be too hard to add. 01:07 hmm i need to add carry burden statuses to hilite 01:07 jonadab: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Phol_ende_wodan/DungeonOverhaul/Jonadab 01:07 [nd] Menche (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 351 points, T:1444, killed by an acid blob 01:07 killed by stupid 01:07 I need to set up an "stth" rcfile for 36x 01:08 * Menche 4♥1 hitpointbar 01:08 I spent way too long on that. night. 01:09 gnite aosdict 01:09 * FIQ ☺ 01:11 ah nice, got it right first time 01:11 now add the rest... 01:12 so.... I made an error in my rc file with a "MENUCOLOR=" setting, and everything after that (autopickup_exceptions, msgtypes) was ignored 01:12 that seems.... weird 01:12 [nd] Jendic (Val Hum Fem Law), 372 points, T:1082, killed by a small mimic 01:12 ran into that one while finishing off its brother 01:12 fml 01:12 or rather, YASD 01:13 Grasshopper: yeah it looks like 3.6.1, if you have an error in the cfg, it will stop parsing it after that point 01:13 Jendic :/ 01:14 K2: looks like this has been the cause of all my woes today 01:14 meh 01:14 aosdict: 01:15 Alternatively, make Medusa's level undiggable floor (it fills in with water regardless of where you dig, perhaps?) and remove the teleport restriction after she is killed. I think I like it better the way it is, though. 01:15 I do not like this 01:15 he does not like this 01:16 Currently there is a real choice players have, to "skip" Medusa, by digging, and potentially trapping the exit from the inbetween 01:16 Or to fight Medusa proper 01:16 I don't want to remove this choice personally 01:16 lunchtime... 01:17 Grasshopper: i updated my rc cfg with carrying-capacity entries 01:19 #quit 01:19 -!- Jendic has left #hardfought 01:20 aosdict: Have you actually seen aiscavern maps? There is a value you can tweak. Near 0, you essentially get bigrooms with rougher walls. Higher values are more enclosed 01:20 AAAAAA got a wish on Dlvl1 01:21 Vibrating Square should follow 3.6.0 rules and be detectable and visible as a trap. 01:21 woot! 01:21 This was *introduced* with AceHack, 36x stole it from there 01:22 [nd] Menche (Pri Elf Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed fixed +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:28 01:22 (And as you may know, Acehack+Nitrohack became NH4 which later was forked as 4k) 01:22 Menche 01:22 ? 01:22 2 blessed scrolls of charging should be first wish 01:23 unless you already ID'ed the wand for # of charges 01:23 this was a water demon 01:23 oooh 01:23 thought you found a wand 01:23 mah bad 01:23 i was like 'errrrrmahgerd wtf is he doing' 01:24 my priests tend to have problems keeping their HP above zero 01:24 heh 01:24 story of my life 01:25 argh and now I have to change all OPTION to OPTIONS too 01:25 because the hilite_status block is no longer consistent 01:25 yup 01:25 i just did that with my dev cfg 01:25 OCD for the win 01:25 -!- yuring has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:26 grar priests are restricted in dagger 01:26 and i'll have to scrub all my other cfgs too just because 01:26 but the RNG gave me a blessed one 01:26 ? 01:26 if you're neutral or chaotic, just sacrifice until $deity gives you Magicbane or Sting or Grimtooth 01:26 huh I had OPTIONS already 01:26 OPTION was valid? 01:27 that'll unrestrict you (and you'll have a better dagger) 01:27 yes, seems to be 01:42 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:43 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) became literate by reading the fortune inside a cookie, on T:3353 01:43 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:43 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 01:49 K2: *bundlebundlebundle!* :) 01:49 LarienTelrunya: Message from FIQ at 2017-09-28 09:27 EDT: aren't you using dealloc_obj? it should take care of timers, etc 01:49 lol 01:50 K2: can you apply this commit https://github.com/SLASHEM-Extended/SLASHEM-Extended/commit/90135789125d07207eea18d0bcbd54cfe6855760 to slex please? it fixes a fatal crash bug that can corrupt savegames! 01:50 OMG no 01:50 :D 01:50 :P 01:50 ok lemme look 01:50 i am starting to get a buzz so of course now is perfect time to edit code 01:51 two seemingly innocuous lines added to objnam.c, but their lack of existence causing everything to go to hell! 01:51 oh hey this will be wasy 01:51 easy 01:51 !tell FIQ yeah I'd also think dealloc_obj would check for that, but apparently it doesn't check for contents of the objects 01:51 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 01:52 you know what you ought to do since you put out so many versions 01:52 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:52 is create a different branch for each 01:52 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 01:52 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 01:52 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Thoth, on T:7880 01:52 like what Chris_ANG does for dnethack 01:52 yeah, I guess I'll do that for the next server-stable savebreak version 01:56 compiling 01:56 :) 02:00 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 1895 points, T:9052, poisoned by an orcish arrow 02:00 Slash'EM Extended updated 02:00 poison instadeath is the worst thing in the whole game 02:00 :/ 02:01 K2: wtf? now I get Program initialization has failed. Report this error to Amy (Bluescreenofdeath at Nethackwiki) so it can be fixed.You can also contact the admins on the #em.slashem.me IRC channel (Freenode)Report error to "wizard".Cannot open dungeon description - "dungeon" file!Can't open /dgldir/userdata/AmyBSOD/slex/dumplog/0.txt for output.Dump file not created. 02:01 back 02:01 FIQ: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2017-09-29 01:51 EDT: yeah I'd also think dealloc_obj would check for that, but apparently it doesn't check for contents of the objects 02:03 aosdict: Also, it should be worth mentioning that jonadab wrote this proposal in 2014, way before scrolls of wishing was a thing 02:03 eh 02:03 getting same thing 02:04 what did you do?! did that little change in objnam.c somehow require recompiling everything? 02:04 because we were getting a similar error when we tried to apply it to esm :( 02:05 of course you have to recompile 02:05 Elronnd: ^^ the bugfix commit doesn't want to apply cleanly on hdf either! do you remember how you fixed it? 02:05 i'm looking 02:05 maybe I'm stupid, but I'd have expected a simple "gmake update" to do the trick 02:05 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 02:07 LarienTelrunya: I literally just 02:07 Elronnd: Message from FIQ at 2017-09-28 07:14 EDT: you're the new slash'em maintainer, right? https://sourceforge.net/p/slashem/bugs/961/ 02:07 edited the file 02:07 it seemed less work than applying the patch 02:07 yeah but then gmake update should do the trick, right? 02:07 LarienTelrunya: well you only need gmake update if a level file or the dungeon changed 02:07 why would that suddenly result in the dungeon description being not valid? 02:08 in this case it's easier, faster, and in this case has less chance of fucking stuff up 02:08 to just copy the binary 02:08 !tell FIQ I'm not the slashem maintainer, no. I mean if the slash'em devteam rose from the grave to give me commit rights, I wouldn't turn them down, but sadly they haven't 02:08 Will do, Elronnd! 02:09 is line 5329 missing a ; at the end? 02:09 https://github.com/SLASHEM-Extended/SLASHEM-Extended/commit/90135789125d07207eea18d0bcbd54cfe6855760 02:10 K2: no 02:10 ok 02:10 (if it were, it'd be a compile error, not this error) 02:10 right 02:10 making sure 02:11 recompiling 02:11 aosdict: I don't know the technicalities of generating loops in mazes, but it is a problem 3.6.1 has already solved. So it could just be ported from there 02:11 FIQ: Message from Elronnd at 2017-09-29 02:08 EDT: I'm not the slashem maintainer, no. I mean if the slash'em devteam rose from the grave to give me commit rights, I wouldn't turn them down, but sadly they haven't 02:11 FIQ: actually, do you know who I can bug to become slashem maintainer (and what the chances are they'd say yes)? 02:12 Elronnd: ask Jubilex I guess 02:12 ok 02:12 Elronnd: I would say the chances to be rather low 02:12 But Idon't know the slash'em maintainers 02:12 At all 02:12 Well, more like ex-maintainers at this point 02:13 Elronnd: try https://sourceforge.net/p/slashem/mailman/ 02:13 well maybe if they see the work I've done on https://github.com/Elronnd/slashem they'll say ok 02:13 Sourceforge! 02:13 or maybe slashem-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net 02:13 Good stuff 02:14 * Elronnd wonders how he would even begin to word that email 02:17 -!- yuring has joined #hardfought 02:21 wtf amy 02:21 i unedited the file 02:21 and its still not starting correctly after i recompile clean 02:22 uhh... that's really weird 02:22 did something else get changed?! 02:22 i only edited the one file 02:22 wtf 02:22 and then re-edited it to put it back to original state 02:23 which makefile are you using? 02:23 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:6075 02:23 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 1394 points, T:6087, killed by a hobbit 02:23 K2: it's slex 02:23 anything goes 02:23 :) 02:24 the one specififc for hdf 02:24 did that one somehow get changed lately? I'd guess not, but who knows? 02:25 anyway, apparently the dungeon description files are missing for some reason :( 02:26 the ones that should be created by the compiling, that is 02:31 this is very weird... why would something that was working before suddenly not work anymore even though nothing got changed? 02:31 and it happened on esm too! 02:32 well there's a reason why it didn't work on esm 02:33 somehow include/config.h was overwritten 02:33 recompiling 02:39 ah wtf 02:40 somehow my local repo is up to date with your master nranch 02:40 branch 02:41 so it's 2.0.9? 02:41 but not everything 02:41 .9?? 02:41 well the current master is 2.0.9, as seen in patchlevel.h 02:41 well we just screwed over anyones saved games in 2.0..5 02:41 commit 7265423 was the last one 02:41 .5 02:41 well shit 02:42 i have a backup 02:42 one min 02:47 enter not work when trying to end a #pray command 02:47 also when enclaving 02:48 devnull port? 02:48 all 02:48 i dont see you playing 02:49 there you are now 02:50 connection lost 02:51 server is up and ok 02:52 trying to get back 02:56 -!- khoR has joined #hardfought 02:56 OK it works 02:57 yuring: slex also works again now 02:57 Thank you 03:12 [slex] Yuring (Mah Dro Fem Neu), 2908 points, T:950, killed by a monster (Uniform Kommissioner) 03:14 direction keys swap trap is annoy 03:14 haha, it is, but there's much worse ones that rotate your direction keys 45 or 90 degrees 03:14 FIQ: Is unihorn a good weapon choice for priests? 03:15 It's like someone flashed me with the men in black thingy and I can't nethack anymore. 03:15 EPI: a trap that hashes all your directions to other directions 03:15 that's evil 03:15 l like it 03:17 khoR: It's ok I guess 03:17 You're better off with a long sword 03:17 Or if playing fiqhack and you want to cast spells, a quarterstaff 03:17 I'm considering making an artifact that determines the effects on directional keys on a per-turn basis. Turns divisible by two will have directions reversed, turns divisible by three will rotate it 90 degrees clockwise, turns divisible by five will rotate it 45 degrees counterclockwise. The effects can stack if the turn count is divisible by several of those values. (EPI) 03:17 EPI: make an uncertainty demon automatically spawn if you ask which weapon is better in the irc channel 03:18 FIQ: priest with a longsword? 03:18 bug_sniper: does it bother you? :) 03:19 no 03:19 I do it a lot too 03:19 I took a long break and forgot how to nethack. :C 03:19 expecially in slashem extended because it has a lot of stuff you'll never guess 03:20 bug_sniper: use the source luke! :D 03:20 Eww, slex 03:20 lol, is knowing C a requirement to play slex? 03:20 go ahead and ask fiq or anyone everything 03:21 khoR: Yes 03:21 I reallydont remember priests ever using long words. 03:21 Actually. Maybe excalibur. 03:21 khoR: They get skilled in both unihorn and long sword 03:21 And long swords are much better 03:22 I forgot about excalibur too. 03:22 Because they're one-handed 03:22 is skilled better than expert? 03:22 even if I where to use the source, I wouldn't know whether fire damage is better than ice resistance for example 03:22 Dip a long sword in a fountain at XL5+. With a 1/6 chance, or 1/106 if you're khoR, you get Excal 03:22 -!- nht has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:22 bug_sniper: That would be comparing apples to oranges 03:23 or whether ouchfire is better than rainbowswandir 03:23 khoR: This only works for lawful characters 03:23 I think I'm lawful 03:23 It says clearly your alignment on the right... 03:24 Actually it doesn't because you use a very small termianl 03:24 Use ctrl+x 03:24 Or change to classic_status 03:24 I just like making evil patch ideas almost as much as jonadab does 03:24 lately, I've spend more time doing that than actually playing any variant of nethack 03:26 ye I'm lawful 03:26 FIQ: You really seem to hate my size xD 03:26 oh boi 03:26 firebrand 03:28 khoR: Nah 03:28 I think I got it 03:28 Just saying why it isn't visible for you 03:28 R - an uncursed long sword named Fire Brand. 03:28 Yup :3 03:28 Good doggy 03:28 (this is actually a stupid mechanic) 03:29 It makes no sense 03:30 !tell aosdict This is what I meant with gnome terminal rendering being stupid. It has nothing to do with the font, it arbitrarily overrides the font for these characters for whatever reason (I use Dejavu Sans Mono, just like I do at home): http://home.fiq.se/stupid_corridors.png 03:30 Will do, FIQ! 03:30 khoR: What mechanic? 03:31 Careful with the gnomish wizards btw 03:31 Also consider wielding a real weapon 03:31 real weapon? 03:31 "NonWeap" 03:31 wat 03:31 You are not wielding a proper weapon 03:31 why 03:31 how 03:32 FIQ: I just stole fire brand 03:32 look at what you are wielding 03:32 wat 03:32 why am I wielding a cursied ring? 03:32 xD 03:32 hahaha 03:32 nice 03:32 how did this happen 03:32 perhaps a typo of sorts 03:32 NH4 helpfully tells you, at least 03:32 Unlike NH3 03:33 With stupid mechanic 03:33 I mean the pet stealing thing 03:33 khoR: Gnomish wizards can, and will, move around appropriately to have you in line 03:33 So they can zap you with spells 03:33 But as mentioned previously, you can abuse their slowness 03:34 (Even a very fast gnomish wizard will not outspeed a non-encumbered player) 03:34 Is fire brand a good weapon? 03:34 Other than boiling their potions 03:34 and burning the scrolls 03:34 god that sounds awful actually 03:34 Yes, it is a very good weapon aside from burning potions, scrolls and books 03:34 Btw 03:34 Not sure if you know 03:34 But in FIQHack I made it so that you can appraise your weapon's enchantment 03:35 Based on weapon proficiency 03:35 You can what 03:35 Appraise your weapon's enchantment 03:35 Like 03:35 You can learn its enchantment 03:35 By whacking stuff with it 03:35 oh 03:35 And what does that do 03:35 I can put it on other weapons? 03:36 No no 03:36 Like 03:36 Turn it on and off? 03:36 You can figure out enchantment of a weapon 03:36 Without having to formally ID it 03:36 Depending on skill with said weapon 03:36 oh 03:36 thats pretty dope 03:36 Basic will learn enchantment with a 1% chance per hit 03:36 Skilled will learn enchantment with a 10% chance per hit 03:36 Expert users can see enchantment immediately without using the weapon (If you reached Expert while wielding it, a hit will reveal it) 03:38 khoR: Have you read FIQHack's changelog? 03:38 Like, at all? 03:38 what did you do khor? 03:38 It lists everything that FIQHack changes compared to NetHack4 03:38 stole something and got it attached to your finger? that's what I can infer from the chat. 03:38 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/FIQHack 03:38 bug_sniper: No, he decided to wield a ring for some reason 03:39 looks like you got it off your hand 03:39 or cancelled wielding it 03:43 -!- bug_sniper is now known as housefly_sniper 03:44 -!- housefly_sniper is now known as bug_sniper 03:47 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 03:51 bug_sniper: What did I do? 03:51 FIQ: Ain't nobody got time for that 03:52 Apparently cursed rings don't stick. 03:52 shrug 03:52 only while wearing, not while wielding 03:53 that's how you uncurse a ring with an uncursed (not blessed) scroll 03:53 I thought cursed rings stick when wielded 03:53 no, only when worn, because it's not a thing you normally wield 03:53 raisse: You can also uncurse while wearing them 03:53 and looks like shouting doesn't make a message appear here anymore 03:53 But yeah, if you want to uncurse 3+ rings.. 03:53 k2, did you do something to shouting? 03:54 yes, but you might want to wear-identify it and you might not want to do that while it's still cursed 03:54 or if you're uncursing your worn armor anyway 03:54 oh buffed martial arts 03:54 thats nice 03:54 -!- mode/Beholder [+Zi] by Beholder 03:54 -!- weber.freenode.net changed the topic on #hardfought to: Welcome to Hardfought - https://www.hardfought.org/ - public irc logs available on website ¤ Public NetHack server - ssh nethack@hardfought.org ¤ /dev/null/nethack tribute tournament hosted here starting midnight PST on Nov 1st - https://redd.it/7184xn 03:54 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Beholder] by ChanServ 03:55 bug_sniper no i did not 03:55 bug_sniper: livelog and death messages don't appear for 2.0.9 yet 03:55 [slex] k2 (Val Dwa Mal Law) shouted "OMG!!", on T:26 03:55 haha :D awesome! 03:55 bug_sniper: once you're on dlvl2 I'll spawn something new :) 03:55 i had to tweak beholder so it'd read 2.0.9 data 03:57 FIQ: I read it diagonally and all the changes seem good. 03:58 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:58 ok, that answers that 03:58 khoR: Wut...? 03:58 Read it diagonally? 03:59 @le?whitlevel cop 03:59 It's how we say in spanish to read without paying too much atention 03:59 khoR: Ah 04:07 FIQ: what do with magic marker? 04:15 Write stuff 04:16 Or save it 04:16 If you don't know 04:16 Also, consider IDing your wands 04:21 FIQ: does being a priest give me any bonus regarding temples or altars? 04:22 No 04:22 It does give you a bonus to writing unknown scrolls and spells 04:23 hooold on 04:23 did my pet 04:23 as a zombie 04:23 bit a dwarf 04:23 that dwarf turned into a zombie 04:23 and became my pet too? 04:23 Yes, that happens 04:23 ehrmagherd thats awesome 04:23 With tame zombieis 04:23 *zombies 04:24 what would happen 04:24 zzzzz wresting 04:25 lost connection while accepting a challenge 04:26 khoR: Is it fun? 04:26 what 04:26 that last charge didnothing 04:27 khoR: Monsters can resist polymorph 04:27 with monMR 04:27 meh 04:27 I guess a winter wolf is better than a dog 04:27 It is 04:27 although it doesnt seem to breath 04:28 khoR: Your pet seems to have acquired poison resistance 04:28 Are you sure? It should breathe 04:28 oh lol 04:28 monsters have resistances now? 04:28 thats cool 04:28 well maybe he is not high enough lvl? 04:28 since he was a dog before 04:28 shrug 04:28 Yeah, it was one of fiqhack's first changes 04:29 ok it just did 04:29 didnt you tell me I can advance in sword? 04:30 also wtf is wand skill 04:30 xD 04:30 Yes, I did 04:30 Why? 04:30 khoR: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Wands_Balance_Patch 04:31 Affectionately named the Wand Destruction Patch by LarienTelrunya 04:31 Whay she says doesnt have any value at all for me. 04:33 [slex] bugsniper (Nec Spe Mal Cha), 14885 points, T:1468, killed by a monster (felwing) 04:33 !lastgame 04:33 LarienTelrunya: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bugsniper/slex/dumplog/1506671114.slex.txt 04:37 K2: I just figured out why nobody has bothered to ascend a massive streak in slex. It's because Beholder is not tracking slex streaks, and that is the only reason. 04:38 Tangles: hahaha really? 04:38 why doesn't it? 04:38 I will fix that now... and then sit back and watch all the streaks accumulate :) 04:38 :) 04:38 Tangles: amy made a GM mode for slex 2.0.9 04:38 Tangles: Did you know that slex has an optional GM mode now? 04:39 that allows her to mess with your game from the outside 04:39 pretty cool idea 04:39 FIQ: We only track streaks in some variants (notably not the NH4 based variants), so there's a list. 04:39 and slex is not on it. 04:39 it was totally not partially proposed by me with provided code to make it work 04:39 LarienTelrunya: I read some discussion about it the other day. 04:39 well now it's a reality :) for now, it only allows me to spawn monsters of my choice, which will be placed randomly on the current level 04:41 Is this something the player can turn on/off in the rc, or do you get to mess with it indiscriminantly? :) 04:41 [slex] bugsniper (Nec Spe Fem Neu) shouted "test", on T:1 04:41 Tangles: it defaults to off; if you add OPTIONS=gmmode to your rcfile, it's turned on (birth option only). 04:41 And optionally, the gmmessage option can be disabled (also during a running game) to stop the game from disclosing what monsters I'm spawning :) 04:42 That actually sounds kinda fun. 04:42 Though slex doesn't really have enough choice of monsters to make it really interesting. 04:43 Tangles: true 04:43 it is, bug_sniper actually played a game in that mode right now and I had fun GMing him; I think he also had fun playing it ;) 04:43 seems lost connection while accepting challenge will cancel the acception 04:43 LarienTelrunya: I might try it once it shows up on hdf 04:43 FIQ: it already is on hdf :D 04:43 Oh? 04:43 OK, one sec 04:43 also, feel free to steal my code if you want to implement something like that in FIQhack :) 04:43 hahaha 04:44 OPTIONS=gmmode 04:44 (must be added to the rcfile before starting the game; it's not possible to turn it on mid-game) 04:44 is the wand of blowing supposed to spare monsters from being blown into lava? 04:44 was it really needed to have a 7-line large startup msg? 04:44 FIQ: wtf, curses graphics? did you set that or is it somehow the default? 04:45 I set it 04:45 well damn, that revealed a bug: currently there's no way for me to see whether a curses game is set to gm mode :D 04:46 how can you discern that? 04:46 in tty mode, the bottom status line will use G instead of $ for the gold display in gm mode 04:46 ah 04:47 why is there watchmen all over the place 04:48 no idea, must have been spawned randomly; I didn't genesis them 04:48 LarienTelrunya: please use the real message window function for disclosing monster information 04:48 so curses knows what to do with it 04:49 uhh, not sure how to do that 04:49 there was nothing but wild boars and watchmen no that level 04:49 *on 04:51 also, you can #force doors out of your way 04:52 ah, that's the cat I spawned 04:52 nice cat color 04:54 wtf, actually I only spawned one lesser umber hulk... 04:54 you mean 10? :P 04:55 you might have respawning, which causes monsters to almost always respawn somewhere on the level when killed 04:55 which means I should not spawn anything for a while or else you'll be drowned in a neverending flood of monsters 04:55 could be good if there's an altar somewhere, though ;) 04:56 the boots are probably what's causing the respawning 04:59 I got rid of them 04:59 despite the +10 04:59 it will kill me eventually anyway 05:00 oh you don't have a scroll of cure? 05:00 wtf??? where did that come from 05:00 I certainly didn't spawn him! 05:01 oh, he's level 5, so I guess he was actually in depth 05:04 You had the following problem: Monsters become stronger if many of their species have been generated already. (16777216). 05:04 überjackal effect? 05:04 exactly :D 05:04 I even inofficially call it that 05:04 can be really annoying in the mines, where gnomish wizards will eventually be able to cast touch of death 05:04 segfault venom? 05:04 heh 05:05 the segfault venom is harmless unless you're playing in segfaulter mode, where it can cause a GruntHack-style segfault panic ;) 05:05 and in segfaulter mode, monsters with spit attacks will spit them 05:05 7 lesser umber hulks 05:06 there was actually 7 generated 05:06 not just respawned 05:06 LarienTelrunya: I presume this is disabled on server? 05:06 !d1 05:06 FIQ: 1 05:07 !50d 05:07 FIQ: No dice! 05:07 FIQ: ? 05:07 LarienTelrunya: The segfault stuf 05:07 f 05:08 nope; it also doubles as a way for me to test the game's behavior in the case of segfaults (they can sometimes behave differently depending on the system), and no one ever plays in that mode anyway 05:12 how do you segfault? 05:12 #monster to spit those venoms yourself 05:13 that way I can e.g. test whether the automatic recovery works correctly on the server 05:13 are you doing it in a way that is potentially expoloitable? 05:14 as in 05:14 *system*-exploitable 05:14 Elronnd: do you know? 05:14 you mean segfault scumming? 05:14 no no 05:14 I mean stuff like buffer overflows 05:14 not sure; does referencing a freed pointer cause that? 05:15 yes 05:15 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangling_pointer#Security_holes_involving_dangling_pointers 05:16 oh 05:19 FIQ: cuz I dont see that skill in my enhancement list 05:20 khoR: hm 05:20 they are restricted 05:20 why does the wiki claim they are skilled 05:21 FIQ: priests can get skilled long sword in slashem, but not vanilla 05:21 oh wait 05:21 I must have looked at the wrong table 05:21 yes, that is correct 05:22 lol 05:22 fake news 05:22 it's because some sacrifice gift in slashem for priests is apparently a long sword 05:22 khoR: so the answer to "can they enhance long swords?" is "no" 05:22 wat 05:22 amnesia? 05:23 The carafe crashes on your head and breaks into shards. │ 05:23 │ Huh, What? Where am I? 05:23 confusion 05:25 that fits too I guess 05:27 What the fuck striking does so much damage 05:29 [slex] FIQ (Trs Arg Fem Cha), 5366 points, T:1321, killed by a cowardly attack on her breasts 05:30 weird how I have 0% fail on everything 05:30 with both a shield and gop 05:30 are you wielding a quarterstaff 05:30 FIQ, because amy wanted death messages to appear in that channel for no good reason 05:30 bug_sniper: k 05:30 silly 05:31 bug_sniper: you heretic! :P 05:32 khoR: if you're wielding a small shield (as opposed to large), have lowlevel spells, and high wisdom, that would explain it 05:32 I'm wearing fire brand and blue and greens hield 05:33 LarienTelrunya, you beareaucratic double-filer 05:33 actually, I'm not good at this 05:33 but also a robe and a helmet of brilliance 05:33 khoR: hmm 05:33 dunno then 05:33 you win, your messages are right to appear there 05:33 fail% makes no sense as-is anyway 05:33 "beareaucratic" hahaha, mix of "bear" and "bureaucratic"? 05:34 seriously 05:34 this soldier with wand of striking is getting annoying af 05:34 how does he deal so much damage 05:34 jesus 05:34 he has skilled wand skill 05:34 it does 3d12 05:34 looks like he finally ran out of charges 05:34 if it's blessed 05:34 he does 4d12 05:35 its uncursed 05:35 I guess I have shit hp again 05:35 3d12 then 05:35 well 05:35 you do 05:35 :P 05:35 but not as shitty 05:35 as last time 05:35 46 maxHP at level 7 isn't that bad 05:35 Bad, but not super bad 05:36 like your last run lol 05:37 what the fuck is this lol 05:37 lol who named themselves that :D 05:37 looks like it's get the fuck out of here o'clock 05:38 "what if fred is actually grill" 05:38 ice troll and some kind of purple h 05:38 no way in hell im going near that 05:38 there was a player monster too 05:38 hothraxxa 05:38 a what 05:38 a player monster 05:39 a player that died that Rodney revived and enslaved 05:39 .-. 05:39 (new FIQHack bones feature whose flavour needs work, but which mechanic-wise works rather well) 05:40 !lastgame what if fred is actually grill 05:40 khoR: No last game for (what,if) 05:40 !lastgame hothraxxa 05:40 FIQ: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/h/hothraxxa/dynahack/dumplog/2017-09-17%2016_39_46%2C%20hothraxxa-Hea-Gno-Mal-Neu%2C%20died.txt 05:40 !lastgame "what if fred is actually grill" 05:40 khoR: No last game for ("what,if) 05:40 lol 05:40 khoR: ingame name 05:41 khoR: I think it might be this game: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/h/hothraxxa/fiqhack/dumplog/2017-08-27%2022:35:52,%20hothraxxa-Arc-Hum-Fem-Neu,%20died.txt 05:41 But it's double-bones 05:41 Someone else died there too 05:42 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:43 Mandevil: Luxidream's last FIQhack death's dumplog link is invalid 05:43 FIQ: but theres no troll in that death 05:44 This is the actual link: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/fiqhack/dumplog/2017-09-25%2015:40:10,%20FUQHACK:%20ASCII%20PORN%20GAME-Rog-Orc-Fem-Cha,%20died.txt 05:44 khoR: as I said 05:44 double bones 05:44 looking for the second guy 05:44 found it 05:44 and stairs dont match 05:44 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/fiqhack/dumplog/2017-09-23%2021:58:00,%20what%20if%20fred%20is%20actually%20grill-Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu,%20died.txt 05:44 yeah stairs dont match 05:44 mine are much more southeast 05:45 at least south 05:45 idk about east 05:45 and adjacent to a wall 05:45 khoR: It is the same game 05:45 Note that you are talking about the < 05:45 Which doesn't show in that link 05:45 oh 05:45 omg 05:45 sorry 05:46 If you compare the 2 dumplogs I linked 05:46 You will see that it is the same map 05:46 FIQ: What the f***ing f**k? 05:46 And the "what if fred is actually grill" game has an actual < 05:46 Mandevil: The player name? Yeah, that is... peculiar 05:46 With that said, the issue remains 05:47 FIQ: The problem is that it needs escaping to work. 05:47 FIQ: I assume the dump file in the xlogfile is without escaping, right? 05:48 This is scoreboard link 05:48 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/fiqhack/dumplog/2017-09-25%2015:40:10,%20FUQHACK_%20ASCII%20PORN%20GAME-Rog-Orc-Fem-Cha,%20died.txt 05:49 Actually... I don't understand. 05:49 He has similar thing in his previous game and that works fine. 05:49 xlog uses : as seperator 05:49 and presumably escapes it to _ 05:50 Mein gott. 05:50 !lastgame 05:50 FIQ: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/F/FIQ/slex/dumplog/1506674653.slex.txt 05:50 no, not that one 05:50 Yeah, that's the issue. 05:50 [fh] Stupid _ _ Name (FIQ) (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 0 points, T:7, killed by a falling object 05:51 It needs de-escaping 05:51 Seriously, the whole NH4 dumpfile names are silly. 05:52 I don't understand why they are in that my-head-hurts form. 05:53 Just to mess with you 05:53 weechat died on me for whatever reason 05:53 anyway 05:53 !lastgame 05:53 FIQ: (sorry, no dump exists for fh:FIQ) 05:53 heh 05:54 Mandevil: what would you prefer? 05:55 a unix timesetamp is a horrible dumplog name 05:55 makes it impossible to see what it is for 05:55 FIQ: It also always works. 05:55 Mandevil: yeah but *that* issue is just stupid 05:55 and a simple fix 05:56 No, stupid is the idea that user can put ANYTHING in the xlogfile. 05:56 I'm pretty sure clever hacker could even use it to get root somewhere. 06:00 But yeah, the fix is simple (at least at first sight). 06:00 Currently I directly match the time in the dumpfile name. 06:01 While I should just replace _ with : 06:01 https://github.com/borekl/nhs/blob/master/NHdb.pm#L248 06:02 Mandevil: no 06:02 the fix will not work 06:02 both : and _ is allowed 06:02 in name 06:02 Ugh. 06:02 I am fixing it on my end 06:02 I guess old ones will just have to stay broken 06:03 Nah, I can define cutoff date... 06:03 Well, if the name used both : and _, then there's no fix. 06:03 What is your fix going to be? 06:04 escape the filename too 06:04 Mandevil: well we know of a case where someone used : 06:04 we don't know any with _ 06:04 so unless you feel like traversing the xlog figuring those out.. 06:04 Escape how? With HTML entities or what? 06:04 it will produce the filename in the same way as the xlog does 06:05 like this 06:05 2017-09-29 10_03_28, FIQ _ _ A-Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu, quit.txt 06:05 for a name "FIQ : _ A" 06:05 I don't get it. How do you know which _ encodes : and which just stands for _? 06:07 Oh right, you're going to produce the actual filenames like that. 06:08 But then I need to remove my "fix"? 06:08 And remove it only for FIQhack... 06:08 -!- aosdict has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:08 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Thoth, on T:4517 06:10 -!- aosdict has joined #hardfought 06:11 Of course, removing my fix will instantly invalidate old links that worked until now :( 06:11 weechat has crash issues 06:11 wondering if someone is having fun with characters that crash clients again 06:11 anyway... 06:11 Mandevil: this is a longterm fix, yes 06:11 but would you rather me leave it untouched? 06:12 also you suggested that you could have a date cutoff 06:12 Don't know. THere's no good solution. 06:12 The best would be if people kept their clever ideas to themselves. 06:12 sorry :( 06:13 I was not the one who came up with these dumplog names 06:13 Like that clever idea that people can define in-game name different from account name and put anything they want into that name., 06:13 I know. 06:13 that is IMO not a bad thing 06:13 That was ais's idea. 06:13 but the dumplog names could really have been more well-designed 06:13 It wouldn't matter if you didn't log that name. 06:14 Already the xlogfile is full of various workarounds. 06:14 So one more doens't really matter. 06:14 I man xl 06:14 I mean xlogfile processing/parsing. 06:14 !tell ais523 wouldn't it make sense to strip customized names for scoring + logging purposes? 06:14 Will do, FIQ! 06:15 Mandevil: maybe I can get jonadab on this too 06:15 so we can push the fix simultaneously 06:15 at least then you don't have to do more work-arounds when future variants add it.. 06:15 FIQ: The best would be if it coincided with version number bump. 06:15 version number bump 06:15 Date cutoff is wrong way. 06:15 FIQHack hasn't had aversion number bump ever :P 06:16 +space 06:16 it's still 4.3.0 like it was back in early 2015 06:16 er 2016 06:16 You understand the problem with date cutoffs, right? 06:17 Not exactly 06:17 You (devs) are not in control of dates. Server admins are. 06:18 apparently FIQHack's initial commit was on august 5th 2015 06:18 Mandevil: Hmm 06:18 Maybe I should decouple xlog and game version? 06:19 Doesn't sound like a good idea. 06:19 Well, FIQHack hasn't actually had a version change whatsoever 06:19 So your proposal doesn't work for it 06:20 Mandevil: Would you rather me add another nonstandard xlog field, "xlog_version"? :D 06:20 I don't know. 06:22 I'll just add extra heuristics that will make http requests to the server to find the actual dump. 06:22 Sorry 06:22 So I should push my fix? 06:23 To make the format from now on saner, at least 06:23 For future xlogfiles and such 06:24 Whatever. I pushed it. It wont affect you either way if you're going to add heuristics 06:24 !tell K2 FIQHack updated 06:24 Will do, FIQ! 06:29 FIQ: Yeah, push it. 06:29 And make Jonadab and ais to accept it too. 06:31 FIQ: And give me commit number, I'll put it into issues so that I don't forget about it. 06:32 3e6a9386ed19382 06:32 Is this what you want? Not sure how helpful it is for you 06:33 It's useful. 06:34 !tell ais523 important fiqhack commit you may want to merge (xlog bug fix, affects scoreboard+etc, should merge cleanly besides last modified dates): 3e6a9386ed19382 06:34 Will do, FIQ! 06:34 !tell jonadab xlog fix: 3e6a9386ed19382 06:34 Will do, FIQ! 06:39 Mandevil: I guess this is what happens when you have no "formal" group of people that decides how xlog should work :P 06:41 https://github.com/borekl/nhs/issues/2 06:41 Yeah. 06:43 Mandevil: your xlog heuristics will break if someone has a name consisting of "a:b:c:d:e:f:g:h:i" in 4k, no? 06:44 for figuring out what seperator is used 06:44 (not sure if that is enough fields, but you get my point) 06:45 FIQ: Perhaps yes. 06:45 should I make such a character? :D 06:45 FIQ: I rely on general sanity. 06:46 FIQ: It will cause the feeder to abort, because required fields will be missing. 06:46 Ah 06:46 FIQ: So make your name so that it has the required feelds for some extra fun. 06:46 Yeah, but I Think the name would be too long :P 06:47 Especially since 4k has a 12-name limit 06:47 or 11 06:47 Yes, that is definitely too short. 06:48 unfortunately, tab is not a valid character in a name 06:48 so the reverse isn't possible 06:48 Good :) 06:48 in fiqhack that is, where the limit is 31 instead 06:49 Mandevil: Why reject paxedtest? 06:50 FIQ: Because it is(was) paxed's testing account. 06:50 FIQ: Not sure if there was actual issue in there. 06:50 FIQ: Maybe there was. 06:50 why not log these? 06:51 I have test accounts on server too 06:51 FIQ: I can only assume some of the test games had mangled xlogfile entry or something. 06:51 ah 06:52 Mandevil: hmm 06:52 so you seem to have 3 special cases 06:52 not *that* bad, at least 06:52 dnethack role mapping 06:53 3.6.0 time bug work-around 06:53 and rejecting explore/debug mode NH4 games 06:53 And seeded games too? I don't recall. 06:53 ah right, setseed too 06:54 fun fact: setseed mode used to be broken 06:54 NH4 would never register them as setseed (or would always, I forgot which) 06:54 -!- nht has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:57 Mandevil: scoreboard already seems to do _->: conversion? 06:58 FIQ: Yes, of course. 06:58 FIQ: Without it nothing would ever work. 06:59 You limit it to the first 3 ones, though 06:59 FIQ: Yes, my bad. 06:59 Not "bad" 06:59 Since it is ambiguous 06:59 It might be _ 06:59 FIQ: I thought : is just disallowed character in names. 06:59 It might be : 07:00 After my fix, you'd need to avoid the conversion alltogether (including the old one) for FIQHack 07:00 -!- CharlesBrown has joined #hardfought 07:00 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 8206 points, T:6897, killed by a mumak 07:01 FIQ: Yes, but old entries will still need the conversion. 07:01 FIQ: So now I have to figure out some way to decide whether to do it or not. 07:01 Hm 07:02 Right, I didn't realize the timestamp thing 07:02 Urgh 07:02 This is stupid 07:05 Mandevil: And I can't think of a good fix :( 07:05 Actually 07:05 FIQ: I am not surprised. There's no good fix. 07:05 One fix is to just base64 the dumplog path 07:05 [slex] GagarinX (Fig Pol Fem Neu) killed Anja, on T:863 07:05 Maybe that is better? 07:06 FIQ: Yes, at least that makes the decision better. 07:06 Hm 07:06 What if I do this 07:06 FIQ: But whoever uses the dump needs to adapt their code. 07:06 I keep dumplog, or whatever the name is called, the broken state it is now 07:06 I.e. I undo the fix 07:06 And add dump64? 07:06 And add a base64 name entry as well? 07:06 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 07:06 Which is guranteed to be not broken 07:07 Which is adding an extra non-standard xlogfile field all over again. 07:07 Mandevil: It is a special case either way, and this doesn't break old scoreboard stuff 07:07 Yes. 07:07 I.e. you can choose to ignore it 07:07 Backward compatibility is there 07:08 It definitely makes things easier for me. 07:08 Mandevil: I think this is a better fix. It also doesn't mangle the timestamp (13:41:52 is now 13_41_52 in filename) 07:10 OK. 07:10 So recall the changes from ais and jonadab ;-) 07:10 Or we get the bad fix, good fix and no fix... 07:10 All at the same time ;-) 07:12 lol 07:12 !tell ais523 ignore my last message, sorry -- it does fix issues, but I and Mandevil came up with a saner fix 07:12 Will do, FIQ! 07:13 version=4.3.0:points=0:deathdnum=0:deathlev=1:maxlvl=1:hp=11:maxhp=11:deaths=0:deathdate=20170929:birthdate=20170929:uid=1000:rngseed=T753WcSNwhPrt0VN:role=Wiz:race=Gno:gender=Mal:align=Neu:name=fiq:charname=FIQ _ _ A:death=quit:dumplog=2017-09-29 11_13_42, FIQ _ _ A-Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu, 07:14 quit.txt:dumplog64=MjAxNy0wOS0yOSAxMToxMzo0MiwgRklRIDogXyBBLVdpei1Hbm8tTWFsLU5ldSwgcXVpdC50eHQ=:conduct=65535:birthoption=15:extrinsic=0x000000000000000000:intrinsic=0x000000000000000000:temporary=0x000000000000000000:turns=1:event=0:carried=0:starttimeus=1506683621649100:endtimeus=1506683623040719:starttime=1506683621:endtime=1506683623:gender0=Mal:align0=Neu:xplevel=1:exp=0:mode=normal 07:14 Mandevil: Does this look right to you? 07:14 it decodes to 2017-09-29 11:13:42, FIQ : _ A-Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu, quit.txt 07:14 so it looks right 07:15 -!- nht has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:15 I think it is ok. 07:16 59fcf05 07:16 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 07:17 I will simply check for dumplog64 regardless of version. 07:18 ok 07:18 It was intentionally made a seperate field so that it doesn't clash, and old scoreboard handlers can remain oblivious to the change 07:18 k2: ^ you probably should implement this too 07:19 Mandevil: does the = padding in base64 interfere with name=value coupling? 07:19 Hmmm, good point. 07:20 But that can be fixed easily, if it really is a problem. 07:20 right 07:20 and = is a valid character in name field too ;) 07:20 (and it isn't escaped) 07:21 So the fix is needed anyway. 07:21 Thanks for pointing it out. 07:21 righ 07:21 tt 07:21 *right 07:22 [nd] Eleven (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 1662 points, T:1790, killed by a kobold mummy 07:23 Mandevil: Do you think it would be worthwhile to make a charname64 too? 07:23 It is of no use for scoreboard 07:24 since it doesn't care 07:24 but it gives scoreboard parsers that does care the same fix 07:24 i.e. Beholder or Athame 07:25 Same with death64 07:26 -!- captain42 has quit [Changing host] 07:26 -!- captain42 has joined #hardfought 07:30 I now have base64 versions of every field the game munges. I am unsure if I should push it 07:30 FIQ: Maybe yes. 07:31 FIQ: Scoreboard doesn't care that's for sure. 07:31 which is name64, charname64, death64 and dumplog64 07:31 Right 07:31 death64 can actually matter, but it's a minr issue so I can see why you wouldn't care 07:31 *minor 07:31 Implementing the base64-encoded fields is easy for me. 07:32 dumplog64 is easily the most important one 07:32 Death definitely can have some odd stuff in it. 07:32 I had to UTF-8 filter it. 07:32 Because someone managed to produce it with UTF chars in it. 07:33 lol 07:34 Pushed 07:34 base64 encoder is part of libc? 07:34 Or you introduced new library? 07:34 c67f910 commit description explains it 07:34 Mandevil: No, but NetHack has it for the save system 07:35 *NH4 07:35 Aha. 07:35 So I just made that function public 07:37 Looks like we made some real progress today :) 07:45 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 07:45 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 08:09 Mandevil: your dnh role combo lookup table isn't correct 08:10 male convict drows are neutral in older versions, but can now only be chaotic 08:11 Uh, where? 08:11 Isn't that the table you sent me? 08:11 Or was that jonadab? 08:11 Yes 08:11 It was correct at the time 08:11 But is now wrong 08:11 Because of course it is 08:11 it's dNetHack 08:11 Lovely. 08:12 I'm not sure on if there is other wrong parts 08:12 So older games follow the old rule... and... 08:12 but Con-Dro-Mal must now be Cha 08:12 and old ones Neu 08:12 I'm not sure when this changed 08:12 So basically I must allow both. 08:12 Truth be said, I can just stop enforcing this stuff and be done. 08:12 You'd want to remove neutral from first to ascend 08:12 Perhaps 08:13 That's what the rules are used for as well. 08:14 I think Chris addressed some of the weird exceptions that made the result make no sense 08:14 Like non-chaotic Convicts 08:14 But I'm hazy on details 08:14 I created an issue for that. 08:16 !tell jonadab ignore what I said before -- I pushed a better fix to the issues. You may want to look at the last few commits (after the revert) 08:16 Will do, FIQ! 08:23 NeroOneTrueKing_: Do you know where dnethack role+race stuff is? 08:23 As in, the *true* rules 08:23 not the role.c red herring 08:24 Mandevil: regarding role rules -- where are they actually used in scoreboard? 08:25 is first to ascend the only one? 08:26 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:27 FIQ: the comments on the proposal may suffer from me being aware of the time gap since its writing but not knowing what in Fourk accounts for it, and knowing only a few things about Fourk at the time. 08:27 aosdict: Message from FIQ at 2017-09-29 03:30 EDT: This is what I meant with gnome terminal rendering being stupid. It has nothing to do with the font, it arbitrarily overrides the font for these characters for whatever reason (I use Dejavu Sans Mono, just like I do at home): http://home.fiq.se/stupid_corridors.png 08:27 FIQ: No, the scoreboard actually enforces these rules. 08:27 FIQ: Ie. if there's xlogfile entry that violates them, nhs will choke. 08:28 Mandevil: Perhaps you could just not care and allow everything for dnh role+race stuff 08:28 FIQ: "true" rules? Like orcs getting bonus AC and weapon enchantment, and Halfdragons getting 3x larger unarmed dice? 08:28 FIQ: Yes I could. 08:28 FIQ: It's just that I found value in actually catching this kind of stuff. 08:28 NeroOneTrueKing_: The role+race+gender+alignment stuff 08:28 Mandevil: Right 08:29 But for dnethack, anything goes, more or less 08:29 So I can see ignoring it for dnh 08:29 FIQ: Hm yes, that might be an option. 08:29 Unless there is a way to realibly deduce how dNH role+races work 08:29 Probably for the best 08:29 FIQ: Source code analysis :) 08:29 Because it's full of exceptions 08:29 Mandevil: When I started giving you a list of how stuff works in dnh 08:30 I found a billion weird exceptions 08:30 Lol. 08:30 So in the end I just gave a lookup table 08:30 Yeah. 08:33 Mandevil: Just have your scoreboard, on each new dNetHack version, bruteforce the choices to figure them out :) 08:34 If it were so easy. 08:35 Anyway, tribute devnull scoreboard is ready for web design work. 08:36 Nice 08:37 Mandevil: btw, if you care, the "formal" casing for fh is FIQHack 08:37 not FiqHack, or FIQhack 08:37 FiQhaCK! 08:38 FIQ: Hm yes. 08:38 FIQ: I'll fix that. 08:38 FIQ: And yes, I do care. 08:39 It seems slightly awkward in the variant menu, though. 08:39 Hmm, why? 08:39 Doesn't seem more awkward to me than dNetHack or UnNetHack 08:40 It uses 4 capital letters in a row -- none of the other variants do. 08:40 Visually that makes FIQHack stand apart. 08:40 that's a feature! 08:40 Haha. 08:40 jk, but yeah, I see what you mean 08:40 I'll fix it. 08:41 Mandevil: but it is what the logo and the wiki article is 08:41 I have no formal releases 08:41 So the breadth of the "brand" isn't exactly large 08:41 But I want it to be cosistent, at least 08:41 *consistent 08:42 Mandevil: what would you have slash'em as? 08:42 the formal spelling is SLASH'EM 08:42 but I've seen people use Slash'EM or even Slash'Em 08:44 [slex] Yuring (Mah Dro Fem Neu), 1294 points, T:1628, killed by a monster (large weasel) 08:45 -!- CharlesBrown has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:45 ! lastgame 08:45 yuring: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/Y/Yuring/slex/dumplog/1506684779.slex.txt 08:45 I opened another (the third as of today) issue for your spelling suggestion. 08:47 Mandevil: how about fiqHack 08:47 FiqHack 08:47 fiqhacK? 08:47 It's FIQ + Hack. 08:47 :P 08:47 That sounds really reasonable. 08:47 aosdict: FiqHack was the existing form used on the site 08:48 Which is different than what everything else used 08:48 hmm, since it isn't a direct variant of Hack, it should really be renamed to FIQNetHack :) 08:48 -!- NeroOneTrueKing_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:48 I kid. 08:48 aosdict: and dynahack -> dynanaethack 08:49 *dynanethack 08:49 næthack 08:50 näthack 08:52 3.6.Ø 08:52 no update to 3.6.1 09:02 -!- Tarmunora_ has joined #hardfought 09:02 [slex] Yuring (Mah Dro Fem Neu), 209 points, T:721, killed by a ranseur 09:05 -!- Tarmunora__ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:22 YANI: zombies should use a sound MS_GROAN instead of being silent. Maybe mummies too. 09:30 -!- CharlesBrown has joined #hardfought 09:32 braaaainsss 09:35 You hear a shuffling noise 09:39 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9] 09:40 hmm, a zombie RL 09:40 with bottles and bricks for distracting zombies for stealth gameplay 09:45 nethack monsters don't have a field of vision that is restricted by their eyes not being able to see back through their skulls, so this would be harder to emulate in nethack 09:46 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 09:46 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 09:49 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:49 hmm, do zombies navigate more by sight or sound? 09:50 I guess it depends on whether they have eyes/ears left... 09:50 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 09:52 [slex] Yuring (Mah Dro Fem Neu), 2813 points, T:1398, killed by a monster (mind sucker), while paralyzed by a monster attack 09:53 !lastgame 09:53 yuring: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/Y/Yuring/slex/dumplog/1506690141.slex.txt 09:53 mind suckers sound almost more dangerous than mind flayers 09:53 their level is lower, which means that they appear earlier 09:54 -!- nht has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:54 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 09:57 aosdict: yes 09:58 [nd] Eleven (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 2268 points, T:6592, killed by a rothe, while fainted from lack of food 09:58 also depends if your zombies are of the fast or slow moving variety 09:58 -!- CharlesBrown has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59 YASI: zombies pregenerate with a definite number of eyes and ears, like in Dwarf Fortress. Slashing attacks can remove their ears, and piercing attacks can remove their eyes. 10:02 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 10:02 does a mandrake always kill you on death? 10:03 Yes, if your HP is lower than 100 10:03 and you aren't undead 10:03 YANI: iron doors. Like normal doors, except they cannot be burnt, blasted, kicked down, or destroyed in any other way by force. If an iron door is locked, you must "properly" unlock it. 10:04 fiq: only if hp is <100? 10:04 yes 10:04 uh nvm that doens't matter I have 77 max 10:04 so I'll just be careful then 10:06 FIQ: Umm, in vanilla, priests are restricted in all edged weapons. 10:06 jonadab: Message from FIQ at 2017-09-29 06:34 EDT: xlog fix: 3e6a9386ed19382 10:06 jonadab: Message from FIQ at 2017-09-29 08:16 EDT: ignore what I said before -- I pushed a better fix to the issues. You may want to look at the last few commits (after the revert) 10:09 Man, lots of backscroll today. 10:10 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 10:10 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 10:10 Evil Patch idea: magic resistance does not protect against polymorph traps. 10:11 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:11 -!- rikersan has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:14 not so evil, it's one component of breaking up MR 10:14 it would also mean your shirt, body armor and cloak are never safe 10:14 ring of polymorph control? amulet of unchanging? 10:14 oh, forgot about those 10:15 would probably make the ring an essential ascension kit piece 10:15 Well, on the ascension run, I'd think the probability of running into an undetected polytrap is rather low, since you're backtracking. 10:16 And once you hit dungeon level 7, there won't be any more in the game. 10:16 FIQ: xlogfile colon escaping is only relevant for Fourk if it was compiled with non-default settings. 10:17 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:29 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 10:29 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 10:31 YANI: saddlebags, which can be applied to a saddled mount to offload some of the player's gear onto their mount. They're not magical, they are basically a sack that can be attached to a saddle. (Higher base cost and weight than a sack though.) 10:31 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:34 aosdict: then what happened when #loot 10:35 [slex] AmyBSOD (Trs Bas Mal Cha) killed Nellie Bly, on T:757 10:35 FIQ: Wait, when did mandrakes get nerfed? Last I knew they killed every single living thing on the level, period. 10:35 #loot lets you remove the saddlebag and saddle if you want, and also to pick items out of the saddlebag. 10:40 lol Tangles 10:40 K2: Message from FIQ at 2017-09-29 06:24 EDT: FIQHack updated 10:40 FIQ: this is the xlogfile fix yeah? 10:41 YANI: Lich halls, a type of special room containing a difficulty-appropriate or somewhat-out-of-difficulty lich, generated asleep, with difficulty-appropriate undead. A statue or two line the walls, and there are several spellbooks or scrolls on the floor/in a chest. Within the hall, the lich can summon more undead. 10:44 EPI: stairs can be trapped. This includes the up stair, and the trap triggers when you come down the stairs. 10:47 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 10:48 jonadab: mandrakes are listed in src/mon.c as checking for <100 hp, is genoable, is alive, and is not the keter 10:48 reading through history says this was changed in 2015, february 10:49 Ah. 10:49 A while back, then. 10:50 yep 10:51 I played dnethack a bunch in 2014. 10:51 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has joined #hardfought 10:51 Intend to get back to it after spending some time in Un, which is scheduled for after FIQHack. 10:54 whee I found grayswandir 10:54 as a wizard though :/ 10:55 already blessed/+1 10:58 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 11:01 K2: yes 11:01 jonadab: It matters for ascension.run 11:05 https://ascension.run/xlogfiles/nhfourk 11:06 FIQhack updated 11:07 !tell Mandevil K2 pushed changes 11:07 Will do, FIQ! 11:07 [fh] K2 (k2) (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 0 points, T:259, killed by a goblin 11:08 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 11:08 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 11:09 interesting 11:10 so there's still backward compat, otherwise beholder wouldnt be able to report the game 11:10 what exactly needs to be updated on the scoreboard side? 11:17 [slex] Yuring (Mah Dro Fem Neu), 841 points, T:1475, killed by a monster (white unicorn foal) 11:23 hmm. was rereading earlier discussion about starting instruments. Tooled horn is clearly the best of them all. 11:24 Tonal, and it can scare stuff away. 11:24 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has joined #hardfought 11:25 -!- khoR has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 11:29 [dnh] rikerw (Wiz Inc Mal Cha) killed Axus, on T:17754 11:29 FIQ: It mattered for ascension.run up through 4.3.0.3. Starting with 4.3.0.4, it doesn't. 11:30 (If I had to do over again, I'd have made that change _much_ earlier in my dev history...) 11:30 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:31 I will never sprint past axus again 11:31 the last time I killed him was with the confusion-immune drain-resis barb 11:31 wizard-who-can't-kill-stuff-while-confused 11:31 is not a good thing 11:31 jonadab: Uh... 11:31 Are you saying that *the same xlog* uses *different seperators*? 11:32 hm, I think I caught a (very trivial) bug 11:33 FIQ: I was not aware that the same xlogfile was going to be used for different versions. I had assumed there'd be a different xlogfile for each version. 11:33 I ate a tin of rotten meat, and it said "You feel slightly confused" but Conf didn't appear in the status bar yet 11:33 I couldn't cast a spell though 11:33 hmm 11:33 the next move Conf did appear 11:33 jonadab: Did you follow my link? 11:33 FIQ: Naturally, Mandevil complained about this, but he found a way to deal with it. 11:33 FIQ: Yes, scroll down. 11:33 jonadab: Yes, I see 11:33 I'm wearing speed boots so I think it's to do with moves-per-turn 11:33 jonadab: Mandevil's method is rather dubious and fragile 11:34 It counts the amount of tabs, and amount of :s in the xlog 11:34 And uses whatever there is more of 11:35 FIQ: So someone could break it by putting a bunch of : in something user-specifiable? 11:35 ha! troll was poking me with a polearm, then picked up a long sword when he came closer 11:35 and the long sword is cursed so he can't use the polearm any more 11:36 I'm standing on the bigroom upstairs on scare monster 11:37 jonadab: Exactly 11:38 jonadab: Do you want me to demostrate? 11:38 FIQ: Is it possible for a user to contrive to put horizontal tabs in anything? 11:38 No 11:38 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 11:38 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 11:38 Obvious solution: if there are any horizontal tabs, that's the field separator. 11:38 So you can't do the reverse fix 11:38 s/fix/thing/ 11:40 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:42 jonadab: When I first downloaded NAO's complete xlogfile to analyze it, there were some really old 3.3.1 games that didn't have the same number of fields. Really annoying. 11:42 another wishing wand :D 11:42 aosdict: Wait, really? 11:42 Huh. 11:42 soldier had it 11:43 At least I think they've got separate ones for 3.6.0 and 3.6.1 now. 11:43 But 3.6.0 has a different xlog from 3.4.3 11:43 Yeah. 11:43 And 3.6.1 has its own too. 11:43 Maybe because they're installed concurrently, then? 11:43 I'd just assumed it was because new version. 11:43 [nd] sluggoman (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 2913 points, T:4105, killed by a giant spider 11:43 [dnh] rikerw (Wiz Inc Mal Cha) wished for "3 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:18553 11:43 [slex] AmyBSOD (Trs Bas Mal Cha) killed the Kisuke, on T:2579 11:44 [dnh] rikerw (Wiz Inc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fixed +3 stormhelm", on T:18554 11:44 is the gauntlets of spell power worth wishing for a wizard? 11:44 [4k] FIQ (Val Hum Fem Neu), 9093 points, T:5036, killed by a gnome mummy called "::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::" 11:45 what 11:45 FIQ: Did you actually count how many colons would be needed, or just guess? 11:45 [dnh] rikerw (Wiz Inc Mal Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 historic partly eaten gauntlets of spell power", on T:18557 11:45 The name is nothing but colons 11:45 to BUFSZ I think 11:46 !lotg 11:46 May the Luck of the Grasshopper be with you always, rikersan! 11:46 jonadab: BUFSZ is too small to make an actually valid xlog entry I Think 11:46 BUFSZ is much longer than that. 11:46 so scoreboard will just ignore that one 11:46 But maybe there's a max on monster name length? 11:46 jonadab: DTHSZ is 97 characters 11:46 jonadab, did you name your variant before 4k resolution became a thing? 11:46 bug_sniper: Before I heard of it. 11:46 Not sure if it was a thing. 11:46 bug_sniper: Also, "4k" is kerio's abbreviation. 11:47 I named it "NetHack Fourk" 11:47 [dnh] rikerw (Wiz Inc Mal Cha) killed Oona, on T:18665 11:47 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 11:47 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 11:50 bug_sniper: It's not clear when the _term_ "4k" started being used for screen resolutions. It was obviously sometime _after_ such high resolutions became theoretically available (but they were ridiculously expensive at first so most folks didn't even know they existed). 11:50 At any rate, I only started hearing about it in about 2015. 11:50 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:50 Maybe even 2016, not sure. 11:50 Hang on, let me check my IRC logs, I almost certainly first heard about it in #ascension.run 11:51 jonadab: Um 11:51 This nwt is not attacking me 11:51 *newt 11:51 In fact 11:52 It's doing nothing at all 11:52 Also the speed system is completely broken 11:52 maybe it's asleep? 11:52 Look at my turncount 11:53 .. 11:53 FIQ: hahahahahahaha 11:53 apparently the evil patch idea where monsters can store movement energy actually made it into the game 11:53 jonadab: look at this 11:53 it's ridiculous 11:54 generally I consume no turns at all 11:54 sometimes I suddenly consume like 20 turns in one go 11:54 │:maxlvl=20:role=Hea:race=Hum:gender=Fem:align=Neu:death=quit bites! 11:54 yeah not enough colons 11:54 to make a valid xlog entry 11:54 so whatever 11:54 but I noticed another issue 11:55 :P 11:55 s/colons/space/ 11:56 oh right, forgot that my slex run is in gm mode, meaning that mail is read automatically 11:56 bug_sniper: Yeah, looks like mid-2016 is the first time I saw "4k" being used in reference to monitor resolution. 11:56 I see 11:56 speed boots get! 11:56 The term was probably not _new_ at that time. But that's when I became aware of it. 11:56 FIQ: One moment, let me spec. 11:57 tell me when you are in 11:57 and I will demostrate 11:58 [4k] :points=1:deathdnum=0:turns=1: (FIQ) (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 0 points, T:138, killed by a newt called ":maxlvl=20:role=Hea:race=Hum:gender=Fem:align=Neu:death=quit" 11:59 FIQ: Ok, watching. 11:59 ok 11:59 look 11:59 are you seeing? 11:59 T is advancing slowly 11:59 How fast are you? 11:59 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:59 is that the point? 11:59 bug_sniper: yes 11:59 it seems like I get progressively faster over time 11:59 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 11:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 12:00 and suddenly it comes crashing down and turncounter advances by 12 in one go 12:00 FIQ: Wait, you're speed 11? 12:00 apparently? 12:00 Something is wrong. 12:00 [dnh] rikerw (Wiz Inc Mal Cha) was given their Quest, on T:20018 12:00 impending 12-turn paralysis 12:00 I wonder if I broke player speed calculation somehow when I abstracted it out to a function so the status area can show it. 12:01 there it is 12:01 Huh. 12:01 I must look at this. 12:01 Thank you for catching this before I release 4.3.0.4 12:01 ok so 12:01 Yeah, eep. 12:01 I get 2 turns 12:01 then 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 12:02 then boom 12:02 12-turn paralysis 12:02 Yeah. 12:02 and then it begins at 2 again 12:02 [slex] bugsniper (Nec Spe Fem Neu) shouted "test", on T:1 12:02 it's a feature :) 12:02 I'll see what happens when playing as a valkyrie 12:02 with speed boots 12:02 I bet I screwed it up when I pulled the speed calc out to a function. 12:02 ok, so even those shouts go to em.slashem.me 12:02 bug_sniper: worksasintended 12:03 finally 12:03 Youv'e got past speed boots twice. 12:03 no difference it seems 12:04 The numbers will probably work out different. 12:04 But the principle seems the same. 12:04 [un] bugsniper (Cav Dwa Fem Law) shouted "test", on T:1 12:05 jonadab: reminds me of a certain thing in ais' proposal :) 12:05 not sure on the balance impact of this mechanic 12:05 on one hand, you definitely get a net boost in speed 12:06 on the other, occasional 12-turn paralysis is *dangerous* 12:06 shout is why #s doesn't tab complete to #sit anymore it seems 12:07 jonadab: Too bad you didn't release .4 first, mostly because I'd be interested in seeing how you'd handle it 12:07 fourk speedbug mode as part of this year's devnull gogogo :D who can ascend while having to watch for monsters being close by when the paralysis strikes? 12:08 [dnh] rikerw (Wiz Inc Mal Cha) killed the Dark One, on T:20796 12:12 [4k] FIQ (Val Hum Fem Neu), 3753 points, T:512, killed by a dwarf lord 12:12 actually: FIQ: play (and ascend) Fourk in speedbug mode! *bundlebundlebundle* :) 12:13 jonadab: remember that PR earlier? 12:13 might be relevant 12:15 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Raisse suddenly disappears!] 12:16 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:16 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 12:17 jonadab: if I travel right here 12:17 I will go into a corridor 12:18 FIQ: I'd probably end up having to version bump and release a .5 almost immediately, change bleeding-edge to be .6. 12:18 Which would be annoying, because I don't want two-digit version components, so I'd like to not hit .9 until I'm ready to head for 4.3.1.x 12:19 wouldn't it make more sense to have 4.3.x.y 12:19 where x is version, y is release 12:19 in case of bug fixes/etc 12:19 4.3.0.x is based on NH4's 4.3.0 branch. 12:20 [dnh] rikerw (Wiz Inc Mal Cha) killed Cerberus, on T:22017 12:20 K2: pushed speed system bug revert. 12:20 aw 12:20 I wanted to try ascend a game like this 12:21 ^^ it should totally become an optional playing mode 12:21 Hall of Fame? 12:21 yes 12:25 [dnh] rikerw (Wiz Inc Mal Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:22363 12:28 wait, just how recent is this bug? 12:29 it's not like the vorpal exploit that's been there for over a decade 12:30 I have no idea 12:31 can't have been there for long 12:31 what hte fuck 12:31 nero: more big room crash 12:31 looks like using any stair on any big room causes htis 12:31 I was worng, it wasn't hte gold drop that borked last time 12:31 it was the going down the stairs 12:31 >:U 12:32 I just crashed on a second big room, for the second time (third total) 12:32 and I was going so well too ;-; 12:32 !tell neroonetrueking angry bug rant by me, check log 12:32 Will do, rikersan! 12:33 -!- rikersan has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:37 FIQ: I don't know. How do you exploit it? 12:38 LarienTelrunya: anyway, I think changing your code to dereference NULL would work? 12:41 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 24728 points, T:11731, killed by a xorn 12:41 grr, killed by one-more-hit syndrome 12:41 I thought I could take on the xorn 12:42 instead of retreating to heal 12:48 Elronnd: Exploit it? 12:48 It makes the game much harder 12:49 FIQ: well I mean exploit it to get a shell on the public server running slex 12:58 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:59 aosdict: I think it's a week old or so. 13:00 aosdict: Looks like the bug was introduced in a commit that was committed on September 18th; not sure when it was pushed. 13:02 Elronnd: I am not knowledgeable enough to elaborate on that 13:02 I know that segfaults can potentially be exploitable. I asked how amy produced the segfault. She said by a dangling pointer (use after free). I went on and googled it, and wiki claims that this is a common attack vector 13:02 I can't do more than that. Perhaps ask ais once he shows up 13:06 !tell K2 Beholder pushed. It now tracks slex streaks. (also I added !asc command) 13:06 Will do, Tangles! 13:30 FIQ: As I understand it, in strictly abstract terms, the way to exploit use-after-free is to get the software to interpret a section of memory as something other than what it is (typically, if the freed memory has been reallocated for a different purpose ad interim; this usually involves a race condition of some kind, so exploiting it tends to take multiple tries, but this can often be automated). 13:31 Ultimately, the goal is to get the software to jump to an address that it thinks contains code, but in fact it contains user-specified data. 13:31 You need a technical, low-level understanding of what the software is doing when the segfault happens in order to pull it off. 13:32 Someone who tends to focus on a higher-level view (e.g., me) is realistically very unlikely to ever manage it. 13:35 jonadab: I think in general you need a buffer overflow or something else that lets you overwrite your return address, to control the program's execution 13:36 but then you still have to defeat OS-level security measures like ASLR and W^X 13:36 (IIRC) 13:38 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:38 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 13:39 aosdict: you need something that lets you insert your code somehow, yes. Buffer overrun is the easiest. 13:39 Buffer overruns are _really_ bad, because they are very easy for attackers to exploit, and it tends to be possible to create an exploit that consistently works every time. 13:39 Use after free is not _as_ bad, but it's still often exploitable. 13:39 You just have to rely a bit more on chance. 13:40 jonadab: well, you can dump all your malicious code on the heap, and your overflow only needs to overwrite your return address to point there 13:40 To deliver your code that you inserted to the _right_ place where you can get the program to execute it, you need things to go just right. And they don't every single time, so you need more retries, etc. 13:40 (With use after free, I mean.) 13:41 but of course this usually involves leaking a pointer to the freed memory 13:41 But yes, ask ais, he probably understands the low-level details better than I do. 13:41 And yes, pointers are very highly involved in use-after-free. 13:41 (With buffer overruns, you can usually corrupt the _stack_, which is a whole nother thing.) 13:42 (Corrupting the stack often lets you specify an address to jump to.) 13:42 Most of the time, that's all you need, yes. 13:42 [slex] AmyBSOD (Trs Bas Mal Cha), 49426 points, T:4697, killed by a monster (Liselotte's hugging boot) 13:42 !lastgame 13:42 LarienTelrunya: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/A/AmyBSOD/slex/dumplog/1506677479.slex.txt 13:42 Right, buffer overrun is easier and more straightforward to exploit, and easier to explain how the exploit works. 13:43 Though ROP is more dependent on stack corruption. Actually I can't remember if it needs to involve the heap in any way. 14:06 jonadab: so do you think a program that will free, and then immediately use the freed memory, will not be a security issue? 14:15 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has joined #hardfought 14:22 FIQ: Define "immediately". (The problem is, you can't.) 14:22 Granted, the longer after free you use it, the worse it is. 14:22 But even if it's the very next line of your code, it can be in a different CPU time slice. 14:23 After other programs have run, etc.' 14:24 lol, a kobold puts on my kicking boots 14:24 but does he kick? no! 14:25 -!- yuring has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 14:28 FIQ: if a monster puts on kicking boots in FIQHack, can they kick you then? 14:32 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:36 -!- mode/Beholder [+Zi] by Beholder 14:36 -!- tolkien.freenode.net changed the topic on #hardfought to: Welcome to Hardfought - https://www.hardfought.org/ - public irc logs available on website ¤ Public NetHack server - ssh nethack@hardfought.org ¤ /dev/null/nethack tribute tournament hosted here starting midnight PST on Nov 1st - https://redd.it/7184xn 14:36 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Beholder] by ChanServ 14:37 !ping 14:37 K2: Message from Tangles at 2017-09-29 13:06 EDT: Beholder pushed. It now tracks slex streaks. (also I added !asc command) 14:37 K2: Pong! 14:38 NetHack Fourk updated 14:38 ^ jonadab 14:38 !asc 14:38 K2: K2 has ascended 17 times in 1913 games (0.89%): nh:1 (1.64%), sp:1 (1.41%), nd:2 (6.25%), nh4:1 (9.09%), dyn:1 (9.09%), un:2 (3.03%), 4k:1 (0.08%), fh:1 (7.14%), gh:7 (1.76%) 14:38 neat 14:39 great job Tangles 14:39 !asc Tangles 14:39 K2: Tangles has ascended 7 times in 251 games (2.79%): nh:2 (22.22%), sp:1 (9.09%), dnh:1 (3.12%), un:1 (0.98%), 4k:1 (9.09%), gh:1 (2.00%) 14:40 !asc K2 gh 14:40 K2: K2 has ascended grunt 7 times in 398 games (1.76%): 1xCav 1xHea 1xKni 1xRan 1xTou 1xVal 1xWiz, 2xElf 3xHum 2xGia, 3xLaw 4xNeu, 5xMal 2xFem. 14:40 !commands 14:40 K2: available commands are !help !ping !time !pom !hello !booze !beer !potion !tea !coffee !whiskey !vodka !rum !tequila !scotch !goat !lotg !d(1-1000) !(1-50)d(1-1000) !8ball !rng !role !race !variant !tell !source !lastgame !lastasc !asc !streak !rcedit !scores !sb !setmintc !whereis !players !who !commands 14:41 !asc bob 14:41 K2: No games for bob. 14:41 ;) 14:42 jonadab: No 14:42 I should probably give them a damage bonus to kick attacks 14:48 !asc 14:48 NeroOneTrueKing: Message from rikersan at 2017-09-29 12:32 EDT: angry bug rant by me, check log 14:48 NeroOneTrueKing: NeroOneTrueKing has ascended 8 times in 51 games (15.69%): dnh:7 (23.33%), fh:1 (11.11%) 14:49 !tell rikersan in #hardfought? They keep public logs, so I can see, but if it was in #dnethack then I wasn't on when you said it 14:49 Will do, NeroOneTrueKing! 14:58 !tell rikersan Okay. So going down any stairs causes a crash? I take it you have 2 staircases there then? 14:58 Will do, NeroOneTrueKing! 14:59 !8ball will I get drunk this weekend? 14:59 K2: Ask again later 14:59 pfft 14:59 !8ball will I have to carry my other half home after his birthday party tomorrow night? 14:59 elenmirie: Message from K2-webirc at 2017-09-27 20:32 EDT: was reading backscroll, I saw that exact same behavior with the devnull port earlier today. game wouldn't accept enter/return. had to save and log back in to get it to behave 14:59 elenmirie: Concentrate and ask again 15:00 hah 8ball is on strike 15:00 K2: I didn't try just saving and re-entering, I saved and closed the session and got a new session. That did fix it. I haven't seen it again. 15:00 !tell rikersan I cannot reproduce it but that's normal for uncommon bugs. Can you try getting to the lower level in some way other than the stairs? Levelport 2 floors down? 15:00 Will do, NeroOneTrueKing! 15:01 * elenmirie concentrates and asks again 15:01 !8ball will I have to carry my other half home after his birthday party tomorrow night? 15:01 elenmirie: Don't count on it 15:01 yay 15:01 well that's a relief (I think) 15:01 someone else will 15:01 lol 15:01 ok 8ball lets try this again... 15:01 the pub is right across the street 15:02 frog march him home. 15:02 !8ball am I going to get completely blitzed tonight? 15:02 K2: Reply hazy try again 15:02 ... 15:02 lol 15:02 hazy... 15:02 !8ball are you ignoring me? 15:02 K2: Ask again later 15:02 lol 15:02 !8ball are you a complete prat? 15:02 elenmirie: Yes definitely 15:02 lol 15:02 beholder bot's AI has exceeding its programming parameters 15:03 exceeded 15:03 !8ball open the hatch 15:03 elenmirie: You may rely on it 15:03 it is now self aware and has become a total prat 15:03 looks likely 15:03 !8ball will the next version of slex have a nasty trap that inserts ten extra mazes into Gehennom each time it is triggered? 15:03 jonadab: Without a doubt 15:04 ^ thruth 15:04 that's an easy one! 15:04 truth 15:04 !8ball will K2 ever learn to fucking spell correctly? 15:04 K2: Outlook not so good 15:04 yeah 15:04 thrtuth again 15:04 !8ball what about Exchange? 15:04 jonadab: Don't count on it 15:04 errr mah gerd 15:05 heh 15:06 !8ball what is the meh-est email client? 15:06 Elronnd: It is decidedly so 15:06 !8ball what is the meh-est email client? 15:06 Elronnd: My reply is no 15:06 can I keep spamming that until it says outlook not so good? 15:07 lol 15:08 Outlook is much worse than just "meh". "meh" is for things like PINE and Mutt. 15:08 !8ball what is the meh-est email client? 15:08 Elronnd: Reply hazy try again 15:09 !8ball will K2 ever learn to correctly spell fucking? 15:09 elenmirie: Concentrate and ask again 15:13 !8ball will K2 ever learn to correctly smell ducklings? 15:13 elenmirie: Without a doubt 15:13 well that's a relief 15:13 LOL 15:13 omg 15:14 !8ball will K2 ever learn to correctly fell fuggings 15:14 Elronnd: My sources say no 15:14 lol stop 15:14 im dying 15:14 a monster has been created... 15:19 !8ball wll evr spl wtfhax errmahgerd tthuygusdfygj 15:19 K2: It is decidedly so 15:19 i have to babble at 8ball to illicit a response 15:20 !8ball did you actually understand that? 15:20 elenmirie: You may rely on it 15:20 ah, its first language is gibberish 15:20 ;) 15:20 now everything makes sense 15:20 -!- eady has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21 !8ball should we keep spamming !8ball? 15:21 Elronnd: It is certain 15:21 !8ball Will Amy manage to ascend an amnesiac ladiesman in under 5000 turns while keeping the wishless, foodless and atheist conducts? 15:21 LarienTelrunya: Yes definitely 15:22 4 weeks 4 days 11 hrs! 15:23 [slex] k2 (Val Dwa Mal Law) shouted "errrmahgerd 4 weeks 4 days 11 hrs!", on T:325 15:24 [un] k2 (Pri Hum Mal Neu) shouted "omg for real? 4 weeks 4 days 11 hrs!", on T:4 15:24 and that children, is how we abuse #shout 15:24 :P 15:24 lol 15:24 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:25 [slex] Elronnd (Ord Unm Mal Neu) shouted "WHAT HAPPENS IN 4 WEEKS 4 DAYS 11 HOURS??", on T:1 15:26 de/null tribute tournament begins! 15:26 dev 15:26 ahh 15:26 err 15:26 speaking of which 15:26 [slex] Elronnd (Ord Unm Mal Neu) shouted "ahhh", on T:1 15:26 [slex] AmyBSOD (Kur Trp Fem Law) shouted "Play SLEX 2.0.9 - now with game master mode! *bundlebundlebundle*", on T:1 15:26 we're not sure if we can do remote servers yet. its possible, but we're stretched for time 15:27 !8ball will they all keep shouting all night? 15:27 elenmirie: Very doubtful 15:27 *büschelbüschelbüschel* :) 15:27 hehe 15:27 oh god 15:27 what does bundlebundlebundle even look like? 15:27 ermagerd 15:27 LOL 15:28 LarienTelrunya! demonstrate! 15:28 one moment! 15:28 K2: you will probably regret that... 15:29 i am feeling frisky today 15:30 K2: Abandon hope, all ye who enter here: http://abload.de/img/oblivion2013-01-2321-fnsc5.jpg 15:30 * K2 enters 15:31 eh... 2 long pony tails? 15:31 i thought you had to do something with them 15:31 she has beautiful purple bundles! ♥ 15:31 that's what's her face isn't it? 15:31 sfw? 15:31 yes 15:31 Miku 15:31 ok 15:31 nah, it's her back (she's running in the same direction the character is riding) 15:31 unfortunately 15:32 oh miku 15:32 Miku's back 15:32 who is Miku? 15:32 K2: Apparently, the person in the image. 15:32 Some japan thing people was crazy over years ago 15:32 No 15:32 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV3tcRtc40Q 15:32 But their defining feature (2 long ponytails) are the same 15:33 here's another one, although her bundle (hair) isn't all that predominant: http://abload.de/img/oblivion2013-01-1117-iksdg.jpg 15:33 LarienTelrunya: Did you ever play XD? 15:33 Aren't they called pigtails if you have two of them? Isn't a pony tail by definition just the one, centered in the back? 15:33 FIQ: what is XD? 15:33 a pokemon gamecube game 15:33 hmm, nope, didn't 15:33 bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Lovrina 15:33 https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Lovrina 15:34 is an antagonist in it 15:34 nah, pigtails are braids 15:34 FIQ: awwwwwwww *bundlebundlebundlebundlebundlebundlebundle* :) 15:34 two of them yes 15:34 LarienTelrunya: yeah I figured your reaction would be something like that 15:35 elenmirie: pigtails _can_ be braided, if long enough, but I thought they usually were too short to braid. 15:35 19:31:56 @K2 │ unfortunately 15:35 what did you want to see? :P 15:35 He was hoping LarienTelrunya would demonstrate bundlebundlebundle personally. 15:35 Ah 15:36 And he was hoping that it was lewd. 15:36 lol 15:36 lol 15:36 Linking pictures of oneself as a girl on the internet generally tends to create... interesting reactions 15:36 I've never tried that. 15:36 Depending on where you do it 15:36 jonadab: Pretty hard to do not being a girl, yes 15:37 Eh, there's Gimp. 15:37 Heh 15:37 You can make adjustments. 15:37 "adjustments" :P 15:37 You know, put your head on a famous child celebrity's body or something. 15:37 Drew Barrymore at about the time E.T. was made. 15:38 heh 15:38 jonadab: apparently the definition of pigtail is a matter of controversy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigtail 15:38 elenmirie: lol 15:39 Huh. 15:40 I'm only familiar with the one definition: two tails on opposite sides of the head. Usually short, but I think that is not required. 15:40 "bunches" :) 15:40 When I was a wee lass, it meant two braids on opposite sides of the head. If they weren't braided, they weren't pigtails 15:40 LarienTulrunya: bundles! 15:40 that's probably a better translation of the german "Büschel" than "bundles" 15:41 Oh, interesting. LarienTelrunya: apparently the term "bundle" is sometimes used as a synonym for having your hair in a bun. I was not aware of this usage. 15:41 oh really? I didn't either! 15:41 tonight is a night for learning! 15:42 Bunches (also called twintails, angel wings, two ponytails, dog ears, or pigtails) are a hairstyle in which the hair is parted down the middle and gathered into two symmetrical bundles <--- YESSSSS :D 15:42 K2: vorpalbug still around 15:42 clearly this is a sing 15:42 *sign 15:42 we should undo all the fixes 15:42 dogears! That's what we called them. I'd forgotten 15:42 FIQ: wat 15:42 I've tested the vorpal bug in slex and your fix did fix it; what happened? 15:42 LarienTelrunya: what 15:43 I mean it is unfixed in 3.6.1 15:43 oh, I thought you meant that the fix didn't work and we should undo it because it doesn't work 15:43 rofl 15:43 yeah devteam has not patched yet 15:43 pigtails if braided, dog ears if not braided. Now I can sleep easy. 15:44 K2: exactly! 15:44 they deemed it a feature 15:44 K2: and the one mail they got about it was "lost" 15:44 how come? ;) 15:44 outlook not good 15:44 oh you're saying they made a determination about it? 15:45 oh wait that wasn't the one that was lost 15:45 that was the one about seeing one's bug reports 15:45 i thought they just hadnt gotten around to it yet 15:45 K2: well yes 15:45 but let's not jump to conclusions here 15:45 they probably deemed it a feature 15:45 hah 15:45 that's what not jumping to conclusions mean, right? :) 15:45 bundlebundlebundle *** :))) :D 15:46 awwwww 15:48 Hmm. I did a Google Images search for pigtails. On the first page of results, there are 18 pictures. Three are braided. 15:48 However, almost all of them are much _longer_ than the hairstyle I normally associate with pigtails. 15:49 I think maybe the usage has changed in the 3 centuries since I was young. 15:49 All but one, in fact. 15:49 http://www2.pictures.stylebistro.com/gi/Pixie+Lott+Shoulder+Length+Hairstyles+Pigtails+Gh7_QNUfuYmx.jpg *swoon bundle* 15:49 elenmirie: It may also be geographical. Google Images uses geoposition data to inform what it shows you. 15:51 K2: any progress on the devnull replacement? 15:51 yes 15:52 -!- nht has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:52 there are a few challenge bugs still to knock out (mainly the waldo challenge) 15:52 is it "K2's Big Nethack Bonanza, AMERICA STYLE!"? 15:52 lol no 15:52 K2BNBAS 15:52 its technically not mine 15:52 Tangles got the game code up and going on 3.6.0, Mandevil is writing the scoreboard and challenge/clan management 15:53 i'm just hosting 15:53 dedicated server or scraping public servers junethack style? 15:53 Tangles got ZAPM up and going as well, and it all integrates well with dgl 15:53 right now dedicated 15:54 its possible to allow remote servers , but sync with the scoreboard on challenges is an issue 15:54 may not have time to rectify by then 15:55 has anyone tested the ZAPM interface yet? I haven't got a wish yet to try it 15:55 ZAPM interface? 15:55 I have played ZAPM yes 15:55 ZAPM was fine stand alone, only a couple issues to correct 15:55 its now recompiled to only be able to play if the challenge is unlocked 15:55 no, firing up ZAPM from devnull as a challenge 15:55 elenmirie: When I think of pigtails, this is the style I mainly think of: https://previews.123rf.com/images/lotosfoto/lotosfoto1512/lotosfoto151200167/49209108-Very-cute-little-blond-girl-with-short-bangs-and-little-pigtails-on-her-head-in-elegant-white-dress--Stock-Photo.jpg 15:56 that has yet to be tested elenmirie 15:56 ok I'll keep trying :D 15:56 ;) 15:56 i keep quaffing fountains early game 15:56 jonadab: those would not be pigtails in my little-girl world! ;) 15:56 2% chance right? 15:57 heh, an excuse for quaffing! 15:58 jonadab: when I was about 7 or 8 I used to wear a style like that (but messier) and called it dog ears 16:00 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 16:00 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 16:00 "dog ears" would be considered very disparaging here. 16:00 You don't call a female a dog, unless you are being really mean. 16:00 definitive pigtails were Pippi Longstocking... https://cdn2.img.sputniknews.com/images/101826/64/1018266443.jpg 16:00 That's the opposite of cute. 16:00 heh 16:00 but nobody wore them sticking out like that in real life 16:00 Indeed not. 16:01 same, but dog ears hairstyle didn't carry that connotation 16:01 See also the aforementioned Drew Barrymore in E.T. Pigtails. 16:01 i like braided pigtails 16:01 if done correctly 16:02 elenmirie: that is *not* pippi longstocking 16:03 she was a character in a book... 16:03 she was a character in a movie. 16:03 In, like, the forties. 16:03 book first 16:03 Fifties possibly. 16:03 ermagerd 16:03 BOOK! 16:04 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pippi_Longstocking 16:04 bookbookbookbook 16:05 mmm 16:06 drinkdrinkdrink 16:06 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 16:06 elenmirie: Ah, book in Swedish, I see. 16:06 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:06 K2: I can't access ZAPM 16:06 despite getting a wish 16:07 ok 16:07 one sec 16:07 Also it works differently than it worked in earlier devnulls 16:07 You don't forfeit your wish here 16:07 "Somehow you still wish you had the Bizarro Orgasmatron. However, you can wish for something else, too" 16:07 -rw-r--r-- 1 games games 0 Sep 20 13:37 ZAPM-FIQ-success 16:08 you beat ZAPM while it was still in standalone mode right? 16:08 Yes 16:08 Was that bad? 16:08 thats prob it 16:08 In devnull I could play ZAPM after beating it too 16:08 system thinks you've already completed challenge 16:09 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:09 i see your game 16:09 Oh sorry, I will dismiss the prompt 16:10 so what happened when you got the wish in devnull 3.6.0 16:10 just now 16:10 I told you above 16:10 I was paraphrasing what happened 16:11 no 16:11 as in did it automatically start zapm 16:11 No 16:11 I wished for SDSM 16:11 Then I saved 16:11 so you got the wish accepted challenge and then saved your game to go play zapm? 16:11 and exited 16:11 ok 16:11 No no I was not prompted for a challenge 16:11 one sec 16:11 As said, I was paraphrasing 16:11 It said that somehow I wish I still had the bizarro orgasmatron 16:11 right you wouldnt have 16:12 but that I can wish for other things too 16:12 Then I got the normal wish prompt 16:12 it thinks you already won 16:12 Mhm 16:12 but yeah you should still be able to play zapm after the fact 16:13 so i would say the first part is behaving like it should 16:13 its the 2nd part that has a small issue 16:13 Maybe the issue is that there is a "challenge accepted" flag that I am missing? 16:13 Which I can't activate? 16:13 If so this should only really apply to me 16:13 and there is no issue 16:13 FIQ: i can wipe your zapm success file 16:13 and you can just remove the success file 16:13 Right? 16:13 yeah 16:13 Then I will try again 16:13 Once you do 16:14 ok try again 16:14 Maybe back up the file 16:14 And place it back once accepted 16:14 oops 16:14 Just to make sure that ZAPM is still accessible 16:14 After winning 16:14 i have a backup 16:15 zapm shouldnt allow you to play unless it sees ZAPM--accept 16:16 LOL elenmirie 16:16 no shouting in devnull :P 16:17 EPI: the #shout command has a 15% chance of giving your character laryngitis, which prevents you from doing any command that requires a voice (such as #chat or #shout) for the rest of the game. 16:18 Unless you cure sickness through any of the non-unicorn means. 16:22 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 16:22 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 16:24 EPI: applying a unicorn horn can (10% chance) cause it to lose a level of beatitude. If so, this happens before the unicorn horn effects, so the new beatitude is what you get when it decides what to do for you. 16:25 RNG is not being nice :( 16:25 This usually takes just a minute or two 16:25 I'm pretty sure you already had an EPI which is that, but worse 16:25 Uhhhhhhhhhhh 16:25 K2: 16:25 Something weird happened 16:26 Spectate me 16:26 I tripped a trickery? 16:27 Goodbye FIQ the Healer... 16:27 You were tricked in The Dungeons of Doom on dungeon level 1 with 0 points, 16:27 K2: trick or treat? 16:27 it's not October yet 16:27 :p 16:27 But why? 16:28 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Thoth, on T:7803 16:28 I was going to look at my dumplog 16:28 But I don't have access to it 16:28 https://hardfought.org/userdata/F/FIQ/dn36/dumplog/1506716724.dn36.txt 16:29 wait another min 16:29 it'll be readable 16:30 ok now 16:30 Cannot open file "alock.0" for level 0 (errno 2). 16:32 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 2171 points, T:8695, killed by a soldier ant 16:33 K2: What does that mean? 16:33 no idea 16:33 Anyway 16:33 I got the challenge 16:33 -!- nht has quit [Quit: nht] 16:33 And ZAPM works now 16:33 i see it 16:33 K2: Maybe I was quitting+starting games too fast? 16:33 thats great 16:33 perhaps 16:34 I was spamming healers because it's the fastest way to get early wishes 16:34 i see ZAPM-FIQ-accept dated 2 min ago 16:34 RNG was being a jerk, but it worked out in the end 16:34 um 16:34 Usually doesn't take this long 16:34 how does being a healer increase success of getting early wish? 16:34 They start with 4+4 potions 16:34 oh i see 16:34 smoky 16:34 Right 16:35 your healing or extra healing may 16:35 yes, that 16:35 K2: I wonder if this can be used for junethack unique deaths :) 16:35 relevant: https://nhqdb.alt.org/?2085 16:35 THe trickery 16:36 hahah 16:40 i need to add a watch games in progress selection on the devnull submenu page 16:41 Can you make it only show devnull games if entered from there? 16:41 * jonadab does not want much ;-) 16:41 i dont think so 16:41 SMOP 16:42 Just make invoking devnull start a second dgamelaunch session seperate to the main one :-) 16:43 sure ok ;) 16:44 FIQ: That would probably not work. Remember that other users can see your games in the watch menu as well. 16:44 You'd have to actually make it filter the watch list. 16:45 Hmm, actually, maybe just add features to the watch list screen to enable filtering by various criteria, such as variant, whether your screen is big enough to show it, etc. 16:45 And then when going in from the devnull menu, default the filter-by-variant to show only devnull and zapm :-) 16:46 Probably the only reason dgl doesn't have filter-by-variant on the watch list already is because NAO doesn't run many variants, isn't that right dtype? 16:46 jonadab: yeah was just the 1 game until 3.6 16:47 well, kind of toyed with others before that 16:48 * jonadab keeps having these weird thoughts of running a public server that has NetHack, Fourk, Brogue, Angband, DCSS, ZapM, ... 16:49 And then I remember that setting all that up and maintaining it would require time and effort. 16:52 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:54 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 17:01 K2: tried to flood some 361 games to see if I could reproduce a trickery 17:01 I can't 17:01 must have just been some weird fluke 17:01 ok 17:17 FIQ: just saw you said yesterday you were almost finished with a draft of a proposal. were you planning on posting it at any point in the near future? 17:25 -!- rikersan has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:30 yes 17:31 nah I planned on sitting it for 2 years like jonadab :P 17:31 aosdict: but I haven't touched it any since 17:37 -!- bouquet has joined #hardfought 17:42 jonadab: and then 16 years later people poke at you for not hosting enough games 17:48 jonadab: You aren't alone 17:48 Admins of RLdiscord has toyed with that idea too 17:49 Setting up a general roguelike server 17:49 with nethack+variants, dcss+all the versions that is generally on the dcss servers, angband, ADOM, etc 17:58 K2: is 3.6.1 completely unchanged from DT? 18:09 nvm it's all good 18:09 FIQ: would such an RLdiscord server use dgl, or something else? 18:10 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 18:10 I realize that I actually don't know how common dgl is outside nethack circles 18:12 FIQ: also, I thought the hunger/sustain ability thing was sort-of-intended. 18:12 Though it is pretty exploitable, _if_ you can get a bunch of meatballs and a ring. 18:16 aosdict: I think they'd use dgl 18:16 The ADOM server doesn't use dgl (it uses something home-cooked) 18:16 but DCSS uses dgl 18:16 and I think some other RL servers do too 18:18 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has joined #hardfought 18:19 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 18:19 . 18:19 rikersan: Message from NeroOneTrueKing at 2017-09-29 14:49 EDT: in #hardfought? They keep public logs, so I can see, but if it was in #dnethack then I wasn't on when you said it 18:19 rikersan: Message from NeroOneTrueKing at 2017-09-29 14:58 EDT: Okay. So going down any stairs causes a crash? I take it you have 2 staircases there then? 18:19 rikersan: Message from NeroOneTrueKing at 2017-09-29 15:00 EDT: I cannot reproduce it but that's normal for uncommon bugs. Can you try getting to the lower level in some way other than the stairs? Levelport 2 floors down? 18:20 nero: I can't repro :/ 18:20 game was lost 18:20 I'll try to do that though if I find it again 18:20 the first time, I didn't lose my game forever, recovered and it worked fine after that (was corrupted) 18:21 the second time (today), it wasn't recoverable apparently 18:21 also, there were 2 stairs on the level, 1 up 1 down, and that's it 18:21 no other dungeon features than traps, and the level was mostly empty 18:30 -!- rikersan has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:30 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 18:30 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 18:32 -!- bouquet has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 55.0.3/20170901071738]] 18:33 !tell rikersan Alas. Hopefully this unknown bug will by permanently unreproducible and never be heard from again :P 18:33 Will do, NeroOneTrueKing! 18:34 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:35 aosdict: All the DCSS servers use dgl. Not sure about others. 18:38 [nd] Menche (Pri Elf Mal Cha), 179 points, T:450, killed by a water moccasin 19:20 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 19:24 soooo I don't know anything about devnull 19:24 But I've already accepted 3 challenges 19:24 Is there anyway to see what challenges I've accepted? 19:24 -!- Jendic has joined #hardfought 19:25 not at this time, no 19:25 i can look on back end and tell you though 19:25 I know one is no digging and one is no fruit 19:25 I could just check the ttyrec don't worry bout it m8 19:25 what username are you playing as? 19:25 thetourist 19:26 digdug, pacman and the pool 19:27 if i remember correctly (and someone please correct me if i'm wrong) on the /dev/null website you could see which challenges you had accepted and completed, and I think you could quit a challenge too 19:27 say you accepted the grue challenge and then said screw it i dont want it anymore. click, gone 19:28 !tell ais523 Is there a way to tell aimake to completely ignore scripts/build/mingw altogether and not do anything with any of its contents at all? 19:28 Will do, jonadab! 19:31 found an upstair on level 4 19:31 thats prob the pool challenge 19:31 as in billards 19:33 oh yah, I can't push boulders that was the other one 19:33 thats the pool challenge 19:35 yay! ring of invisible 19:35 very useful early on I think 19:35 plus lady was nice enough to give me an electrified hammer 19:36 heh 19:36 "Your hammer runs out of batteries!" 19:39 Kill some redshirts and storm troopers and pick up their energy cells. 19:40 As the last pocket is filled, your foot knocks into a pebble which rolls away. It seems that rotational intertia has returned to normal. 19:40 there's a type there :P 19:40 typo* 19:40 doh 19:46 don't want to start dipping until i have pois resistance but don't really want to keep wearing this cursed +0 cape 19:46 guess i could give prayer a go 19:46 no go 20:08 you want mazes gone from gehennom? be careful what you wish for 20:08 http://home.fiq.se/rip_mazes.png 20:09 you want 25 more levels of these? I got you cuvered fam 20:13 Ok, that's probably an improvement, but. 20:13 Technically speaking, probably yes 20:13 But... no :P 20:14 (Don't worry, my dungeon overhaul doesn't intend to do... this, as a fix to Gehennom) 20:14 It was mostly a test of how easy disabling the mazes was 20:14 Ah. 20:15 How does it handle the lairs? 20:15 someone on discord asked how best he'd go about learning to tweak the NetHack codebase 20:15 and asked about removing mazes as an example 20:15 "First, you decide on a change you want to make..." 20:15 Ah. 20:15 I replied by documenting exactly how I went ahead removing mazes 20:15 As a POC and example of the kind of knowledge you need 20:16 I.e. basically, C knowledge helps, but knowing the codebase is MUCH more important 20:16 Yes. 20:16 I read through the NetHack codebase for months before I started doing tweaks to it myself 20:16 Assuming you understand programming in general, you can pick up the C as you go. Mostly. 20:16 Right 20:16 Oh, I started with applying patches. 20:16 I think he has general programming knowledge since before 20:16 Just not C 20:16 And then applying patches on top of each other and figuring out the conflicts. 20:17 And it progressed from tehre. 20:17 *there 20:17 Ah 20:17 Bilious patches, that is. 20:17 Well, the NAO patch as a starting point, and then Bilious patches on top of it. 20:17 Right 20:17 the bilious database is pretty col 20:17 *cool 20:18 there's some really obscure things nobody talks about there 20:18 that is really cool 20:18 Yes, although at this point I bet 85% of the stuff on it won't apply to 3.k6 20:18 *3.6 20:18 right 20:18 jonadab: http://sprunge.us/dKRM is what I linked 20:19 to be specific 20:20 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 20:20 nero: I hope so :/ 20:20 rikersan: Message from NeroOneTrueKing at 2017-09-29 18:33 EDT: Alas. Hopefully this unknown bug will by permanently unreproducible and never be heard from again :P 20:20 also, wha'ts this about orcs getting bonus ac/enchant? 20:20 fiq: reading transcript, saw ^ 20:21 I know about mr at lvl 15, but what's the bonus enchant do? 20:21 Reading what? 20:21 Anyway, they get bonus Str/Dex/Con 20:21 as they level up 20:21 It reaches 25 eventually 20:21 oh cool 20:21 I don't remember exact details 20:21 I should try another orc barb 20:21 that was a fun run, only ascension to date 20:22 I still need to actually give myr ana and inc barb a shot though :/ 20:24 woo a nymph just stole my cursed cloak! 20:24 what kind? 20:24 just a regular nymph and a regular cloak 20:25 but it was cursed and I wanted it gone 20:25 it's a happier event if it's something like orcish, less happy if it's a cursed +0 cloak of mr 20:29 dNethack orcs are fairly broken 20:29 everything in dnethack is broken 20:29 A level 30 orc is silly though. +10 enchantment on every weapon 20:30 Automatically 20:30 [dnh] rikerw (Ana Dro Fem Cha), 1067 points, T:1442, killed by a water demon 20:30 don't fountain quaff and nethack 20:30 tarmunora: _next up for high damage: bones file elf silver crystal thing, +9, in hands of lvl 30 orc with gauntlets of power_ 20:31 And the stat caps, and the 20(!) points of natural AC 20:31 holy crap 20 is insane 20:31 orcs was kinda useless 20:31 Well, 10 points of base AC and 10 points of 'armor' AC 20:31 terrible attribute caps 20:31 nothing to make up for the boons the other races had 20:31 Only downside is the poor early game 20:31 chris decided to recitfy this 20:32 he might have gone a bit overboard 20:32 yes 20:32 intrinsic MR at 15 is excessive too imo 20:32 tho actually not really most QAs give MR I guess 20:32 can't wish for quest artis in dnh 20:32 Orcish binder is !fun! getting through the early game, and just silly late-game 20:32 yes 20:33 but there is a guranteed source of slotless MR in black crystal 20:33 FIQ: Black crystal still exists as well 20:33 fiq: yes your yours is likely to 20:33 *but yours 20:33 Tarmunora_: Just startscum for buer 20:33 ::P 20:33 *:P 20:33 whee, this gonna be good: 18 str, con, int 20:33 FIQ: Yuuuuup 20:33 fiq: buer is OP 20:33 it used to be even more OP 20:33 even in mid-game, grand master martial arts is insane 20:33 eurynome isn't as good by itself 20:33 but w/ buer is just dumb 20:34 Just eurynome is better than just Buer for unarmed 20:34 Though for binders you want both 20:34 why? 20:34 buer used to unrestrict martial arts and give +1 hp/turn on top of regular regen 20:34 ah 20:34 no more regen? 20:34 plus the current self-heal/self-cure 20:34 Bonuses similar to the GM's robe with eurynome bound 20:34 regen is still there 20:34 but it was nerfed 20:34 tarmunora: ah I see 20:34 Buer grants *minor* regen 20:35 oh, I see the notes 20:35 (Still huge compared to the natural regen) 20:35 I've never bound eurynome except for like once 20:35 Tarmunora_: used to be +1hp/turn 20:35 FIQ: Oh, I know 20:35 but it stacked 20:35 with regular regen 20:35 It was great on clockworks 20:35 and incs 20:35 No more 'repairing' all the time 20:36 I still stand by my beliefs that incantifiers will never not be overpowered in all stages of the game 20:36 I like the clockwork changes 20:36 I think 20:36 they were less broken before 20:36 maybe it's a bug or smth, I've only checked on the dnethack repo, not dnao 20:36 last set of changes made them more OP than ever 20:36 the regen hp slowly, but at high-levels . is like potions of healing 20:36 they used to not be able to spam spells at all due to hunger 20:37 until they found eregen 20:37 and they had only like 900Pw 20:37 incs? 20:37 Silver key -> spam finger of death at newts 20:37 or clockwork 20:37 yeah 20:37 Incs 20:37 inc 20:37 yea 20:37 inc is dumb 20:37 Tarmunora_: right 20:37 I'm dissapointed in the eye not doing stuff though 20:37 incs was always OP lategame 20:37 it's pretty much useless for wizard incs 20:38 but used to be not as OP early 20:38 They also got eregen for the wizard hats that I cannot spell 20:38 At some point 20:38 hat of the archmagi 20:38 Corunthaum, I think 20:38 .. that one called "hat of the archmagi"? 20:38 oh 20:38 oh 20:38 really 20:38 'cornatheum' 20:38 lol 20:38 Really, same as wizards 20:38 but cornuthaums don't give eregen.. 20:38 ... 20:38 In dNethack 20:39 since when? 20:39 when I played they didn't 20:39 since chris thought that was a good buff presumably 20:39 *cornuthaum 20:40 if(u.uen < u.uenmax && (Role_if(PM_WIZARD)) && uarmh && uarmh->otyp == CORNUTHAUM){ 20:40 reglevel += uarmh->spe; 20:40 Incants got that at some point as well iirc 20:40 oh 20:40 so since last version 20:40 Uh 20:40 Chris changed eregen formula the last version :P 20:40 [slex] Yuring (Mah Dro Fem Neu), 133 points, T:1222, killed by a monster (gnome zombie) 20:40 Inspired, but not identical, to FIQHack's change 20:41 Yup, June 13 20:41 was grabbed alongside some other FIQHack stuff 20:41 Wait 20:41 like spell maint and the mitre allowing prayer inside Gehennom 20:41 Pre-eregen changes it was this 20:41 if(u.uen < u.uenmax && (Role_if(PM_WIZARD) || Race_if(PM_INCANTIFIER)) && uarmh && uarmh->otyp == CORNUTHAUM && uarmh->spe > 0){ 20:41 - u.uen += rnd(uarmh->spe); 20:41 lol 20:42 That is a much large buff 20:42 *larger 20:42 than current 20:42 I just realized: inc barbs could easily be wizards, with a higher hp pool 20:43 tha'ts probably already a strategy though 20:43 NeroOneTrueKing ascended one of those iirc 20:43 ah 20:43 ridiculous. 20:43 Inc is basically multiclassing as wizard 20:43 I think Tariru did too 20:43 With almost no real penalty 20:43 during his/her "ascend dnethack everything" period 20:43 I know allihaveismymind (I dunno server name) has, reddit post about it a while ago 20:43 fiq: yeah, with the bonus of unlimited mana pool and expert in everything 20:43 even wiz doesn't have expert in every spell claass 20:44 Better than a wizard really. Unlimited Pw, expert in all spell schools, and enough of a casting bonus you can wear metal body armor. 20:44 yeah, incs are overpowered 20:44 but they're fun 20:44 nero: casting bonus? 20:44 incs get a bonus to fail% 20:44 like a robe I think 20:45 this means inc monks can basically cast everything from XL1 20:45 They got some stupid boost 20:45 fiq: so inc chaotic monk is op 20:45 crowning gift is wiz robe for monk right 20:45 why chaotic? 20:45 at least cha ones 20:45 lol 20:45 nice 20:45 iirc law and neutral get the grandmaster's robe 20:46 Meanwhile, gnomes can't wear 90% of the armour they find and have half the carry weight of normal races 20:46 tarmunora iirc was telling me that a day or so ago 20:46 gnomes used to be nice 20:46 Correctomundo 20:46 tarmunora: _waits for stupid buff_ 20:46 they were nerfed into oblivion yesterday 20:46 er 20:46 last patch 20:46 Earlier than that 20:46 gnomes can now wield gigantic weapons effectively, get +20 to hit/damage 20:46 calling it now 20:46 oh right 20:46 you heard it here first folks 20:46 3.14 I think 20:46 Sizing is a couple patches old 20:46 during the size rework 20:47 [dnh] rikerw (Bar Inc Mal Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1123 20:47 Bat-people also have armour issues, but they get double weight instead of half 20:47 * Tarmunora_ grumbles 20:47 what about these uh 20:47 Permanent polyself w/ amulet of unchanging is the way to go for gnomes these days 20:47 swn 20:47 bat people seem kinda pointless honestly 20:48 swn? 20:48 Yuki-onna? 20:48 yes 20:48 They got buffed to 800(?) weight recently, and are normal sized 20:48 but gnomes got no buffs 20:48 rip 20:48 Bad carry cap, but their passive and unarmed cold attacks are able to carry them through early-game 20:49 Like, punch the water demon at level 1 and win handily 20:49 iron vuln is no big issue either 20:49 Iron vuln is annoying, but not too huge 20:50 random thought 20:50 dnethack foodless would be really easy 20:50 booze is common, 5 booze = 1 ration 20:50 yes 20:50 no 20:50 ye? 20:50 no 20:50 booze is 140 a potion 20:50 ration is 500 I thought 20:50 *130 20:50 booze is 15 a pop 20:50 not in dnethack 20:50 was it changed 20:50 hm ok 20:50 it's 130 for uncursed, 140 for blessed, 120 for cursed (+ vomit) 20:51 it's ridiculously fun 20:51 you also can't choke to death on booze though 20:51 Yup 20:51 and dwarves have booze 20:51 Not in the mines though (excluding minetown) 20:51 However, cursed create monster in minetown... 20:52 currently doing that in the temple :D 20:52 I should make dwarves spawn with booze in fiqhack 20:53 and make it heal them 20:53 but only dwarves 20:53 they don't in vanilla? 20:53 or the player if they're a dwarf 20:53 it heals in nethack too fiq 20:53 vanilla and not I think 20:53 gives level hp 20:53 yeah but I think it heals like 3 20:53 ah 20:53 a bit more 20:53 but not much 20:53 was thinking 6d8, same as EH 20:54 and blessed gives +1 max HP 20:54 maybe 20:54 but yea if that then only for dwarves 20:54 it's really common in the dnethack mines at least, I dunno about vanilla 20:54 not as common 20:54 I have it on autopickup for when I get throne rooms :D 20:56 lol, cursed create monster went outside temple 20:58 [dnh] rikerw (Bar Inc Mal Cha) was given Cleaver, on T:1505 20:58 :D 20:58 request: dnh item similar to brogue transmutation (I think) 20:58 swaps enchants on 2 items 20:59 would be very nice to when you have a old wep, get a artifact, and want to carry it over 20:59 inb4 swapping crystal sword and 2-blade Pen to other weapons 20:59 oh 20:59 true 20:59 maybe only for weapons of the same type 21:02 [slex] Yuring (Mah Dro Fem Neu), 705 points, T:1123, killed by a monster (Sarah's soft sneaker) 21:11 that is an interesting monster 21:13 -!- rikersan has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:14 [nh] Grandolar (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 2379 points, T:2263, killed by a gnome 21:24 -!- elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 21:28 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 21:28 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 21:41 !tell ais523 Found ignore_directories in the documentation :-) 21:41 Will do, jonadab! 21:48 [slex] Yuring (Mah Dro Fem Neu), 52 points, T:116, killed by a bullet 21:53 fuuuuuck 21:54 since when are you Yuring? 21:55 I hate sleep rays :( 21:55 oh i'm not yuring 21:56 devnull doesn't have any livelog 21:56 there was a vampire lord with a sleep wand 21:56 at the end of soko 21:56 jonadab: Barthouse is on the wiki now. Hopefully that'll be beneficial. 21:56 but I had a c corpse and low health 21:56 and I stuck around to fight because I didnt want to lose my corpse instead of healing up 21:57 and I missed 21:58 EPI: if you are wielding a c corpse and become helpless, and an intelligent monster is adjacent to you, they'll jiggle your arm around so the corpse touches you and you get stoned. 22:00 FIQ: the bard YANIs are piling up to the point where I'm considering breaking it out into its own proposal proper. Do you think that's a good idea? 22:04 aosdict: I think making bard a separate proposal is a good idea. 22:07 Not only have the YANIs been piling up, the list of notes and auxiliary YANIs I have here is also getting too long to dump all at once on IRC 22:11 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 22:11 so making a full proposal seems appropriate 22:18 ais523: I am planning to post my comments on your overhaul proposal on the wiki, but I'd love to be able to link directly to its sections. Would you be okay with me posting it on the wiki in your userspace? 22:19 "it" = the actual proposal, not the comments 22:20 aosdict: it needs conversion from markdown to mediawiki markup in that case, probably 22:20 ais523: Message from aosdict at 2017-09-28 21:29 EDT: comments are living on a text file on my laptop at the moment, but I'm planning to put it on the wiki. Want me to wikify your proposal and put it under User:Ais523? It'd be nice for me to have it to link to 22:20 ais523: Message from jonadab at 2017-09-28 21:55 EDT: The concept of green slime in general is clearly older than D&D, though I don't doubt that some of the specific details of how they work in NetHack may come from D&D. 22:20 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2017-09-29 06:14 EDT: wouldn't it make sense to strip customized names for scoring + logging purposes? 22:20 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2017-09-29 06:34 EDT: important fiqhack commit you may want to merge (xlog bug fix, affects scoreboard+etc, should merge cleanly besides last modified dates): 3e6a9386ed19382 22:20 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2017-09-29 07:12 EDT: ignore my last message, sorry -- it does fix issues, but I and Mandevil came up with a saner fix 22:20 ais523: Message from jonadab at 2017-09-29 19:28 EDT: Is there a way to tell aimake to completely ignore scripts/build/mingw altogether and not do anything with any of its contents at all? 22:20 ais523: Message from jonadab at 2017-09-29 21:41 EDT: Found ignore_directories in the documentation :-) 22:20 although it shouldn't be too hard as I only used a small proportion 22:20 also wow that's a lot of messages, give me some time to read them 22:21 ais523: yeah, I don't have a problem wikifying 22:21 FIQ: NH4 is meant to put customized names in quotes, it doesn't alwasy 22:21 aosdict: right 22:21 might be worth a disclaimer that I noticed a few issues in it after writing it 22:21 (I would not offer to do that to jonadab's proposal.) 22:22 most notably, not putting the Book of the Dead anywhere 22:22 ais523: I just assumed that if you didn't propose a specific change to the Wizard's Tower, it'd be mostly the same. 22:22 Unless someone comes up with something better. 22:23 jonadab: 22:23 right 22:23 I forgot about it entirely when writing the proposal 22:23 I think you could do with something with unique gameplay, that's what I do with most side branches 22:23 I was planning to remove the fake wizard's towers as they aren't very interesting 22:23 Were you planning on making it a proper branch and not embedded into the real Gehennom levels? 22:23 and likely just have the entrance be from the bottom level via a door 22:23 being embedded is interesting, so I might keep that 22:24 I'm not sure what to do in the tower itself though 22:24 hi 22:24 Hello FIQ, Welcome to #hardfought 22:25 also, can't remember too many details about demon lords or their lairs either. 22:25 FIQ: SPOILERS ^^^ 22:25 FIQ: I accidentally posted a few spoilers above 22:25 ok 22:25 they're pretty minor but you might want to avoid reading them anyway 22:25 I will not pay attention to backlog then 22:25 but in any case 22:25 what I did with xlog 22:25 well let me repost this then 22:25 FIQ: the bard YANIs are piling up to the point where I'm considering breaking it out into its own proposal proper. Do you think that's a good idea? 22:25 was to add base64 fields of the ones that currently is run through the escaping stuff 22:26 aosdict: start it off as a list-of-YANIs 22:26 EPI: the thing we currently know as the Wizard's Tower stays in the game, but now when you get to the end of it, all you find is the artifact key that opens the way to the _real_ Wizard's Tower, but you must find the entrance, at the bottom of an 8d8-level three-dimensional maze. 22:26 then you can make it into a proper proposal once it's crystallised a bit 22:27 jonadab: ADOM has a 3d maze as an optional dungeon 22:27 ais523: I have a lot of notes which are rapidly crystallizing 22:27 It sounds very painful but I haven't been there 22:27 FIQ: I actually want to propose a small 3D maze but yes, strictly optional. 22:27 not stuff that's made its way onto the wiki list yet 22:27 And not full-level-size. 22:27 Enigma has a 4D maze as one of its levels 22:27 4D? 22:27 It changes over time? 22:27 I don't think I've solved it yet 22:27 It consists of several fullmaze levels where you might have to traverse down and then up again 22:27 jonadab: four space dimensions 22:28 it's set up as a teleporter maze 22:28 In addition, the dungeon has "fake" maze levels 22:28 ais523: Ah. 22:28 that eventually lead to a dead end 22:28 with eight teleporters for the eight dimension+direction pairs 22:28 I haven't solved it, I think you pretty much have to draw a map to manage that 22:28 and I hate taking separate notes while playing Enigma 22:44 maybe I should dust off the maze generator I was workign on a while ago 22:44 I'm happy with the algorithm but less happy with the code backing it 22:45 what's the algorithm? 22:46 huh, I meant to post that in a different channel but it was randomly ontopic here too 22:47 the basic idea is to start off by making a matrix with exactly one local minimum 22:47 you work on maze generators for non-nethack stuff? now I'm interested 22:47 the way you do that is the least certain part of my algo 22:47 currently I have a recursive process that works but leaves obvious edges in some places, especially multiples of 27 22:48 [slex] Yuring (Mah Dro Fem Neu), 1779 points, T:1840, killed by a monster (clay-soldier) 22:48 anyway, once you've done that, any rule that takes each cell and connects it to some neighbour with a lower value (placing walls anywhere there isn't a connection in either direction) will make a perfect maze 22:48 and you can vary the appearance of the maze considerably by how you do it 22:49 all these mazes are from the same underlying matrix, but with different connection-making rules: http://nethack4.org/pastebin/maze-examples.txt 22:49 (in that program the underlying matrix was infinite, but it works with finite matrices too) 22:51 Yeah, I remember your posting that previously. It's interesting. 22:51 But yes, for NetHack you'd need finite mazes. 22:51 I like the second maze there as it's an example of how the algorithm can make stratified mazes without making them any less difficult 22:52 (that's using a rule where connections are east/west whenever possible) 22:52 At some point in the past I adapted some of the standard maze algorithms to work in situations where the "wall" thickness is zero 22:52 I think the fourth one connects north whenever possible? that would explain why nearly all the dead ends have the same orientation 22:53 which works well in places where the "walls" are basically valid maze spaces that merely didn't get selected 22:53 gives it a nice hewn-from-rock feel 22:54 (in contrast to nethack mazes, in which certain spaces are always walls, certain spaces may or may not be, and others are always non-wall, depending on where on the grid they fall.) 22:55 right, I know what you mean 22:57 the shortcomings are that it occasionally leaves some chunks of the area untouchable, and of course, it's not a perfect maze. 22:57 Not sure whether you would be able to guarantee that it will route from point A to B in all cases. I'd need to go back and check. 23:03 oh, I think you can probably do a perfect maze fairly easily like this: start with all squares but one as wall, maintain a list of squares adjacent to exactly one nonwall (you can update the list efficiently via dead-reckoning), repeatedly make a random member of the list into nonwall 23:05 erm, I was confusing perfect with space-filling, sorry 23:06 and yes, that would be the prim's algorithm version of it 23:06 [slex] Yuring (Mah Dro Fem Neu), 0 points, T:32, killed by a monster (brown icky thing) 23:13 aosdict: heh, I hadn't even seen this as a minimum spanning tree problem 23:13 I guess it's just a spanning tree problem and the "minimum" is a bonus that prim's algorithm gives you that you don't need 23:17 yeah, a lot of maze algorithms are just treating the whole grid like a spanning tree where costs are 1 so it can randomize the connections it makes, or something 23:17 bonus is that they work for non-grid mazes too 23:18 however, the problem of untouched areas is something I don't like 23:19 Eh, just put secret treasure vaults in there ;-) 23:20 jonadab: it's not that you can't live with them, it's that they can grow unboundedly large. (Granted, that's not likely, and I was mainly messing with this for infinite mazes where that can happen.) 23:21 Ah. 23:37 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 23:37 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 23:39 [sp] k2 (Pri Hum Mal Law), 30502 points, T:11868, killed by an energy vortex 23:40 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:41 ok... backscroll summary. !asc works. Beholder became self-aware and is a "total pratt". Amy posted a nice photo of herself with a donkey. Jonathanhanes found another typo in the challenge messages. Elronnd and K2 shouted at each other for a bit, and FIQ didn't post his dungeon proposal. Did I miss anything? 23:41 i died 23:41 !8ball did Tangles miss anything? 23:41 aosdict: As I see it, yes 23:41 Oh yeah I just saw that now :( 23:42 ;) 23:42 !8ball will you please shut up and mind your own business? 23:42 Tangles: Most likely 23:42 good! 23:42 not likely 23:42 just so you know, sporkhack is still neglecting to create downstairs in minetown and on regular dungeon levels also 23:42 always happy to shout about it when someone dies 23:43 but we can worry bout that after devnull tribute 23:43 K2: Yeah the no downstairs in minetown is just weird. Is it one particular minetown variant or can it be any of them? 23:45 eh not certain, i wasnt tracking that 23:45 this particular one was the one with the book shop 23:45 !lastgame 23:45 K2: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/sporkhack/dumplog/1503934600.sp.txt 23:46 on the regular dungeon lvl, the map was 'short' 23:46 !tell FIQ the 3.6.1 we are running here is vanilla except for livelogging and the achievement recording bugfix we discussed on github a while back, which the devteam still have not merged (or otherwise addressed) 23:46 Will do, Tangles! 23:46 as in, its width was very small 23:46 couldnt dig 23:47 i'm describing the regular dungeon lvl map where there were no downstaors 23:47 lvl 5 i think 23:47 !tell fiq Could probably take that out again until it's fixed upstream, I'm just surprised it hasn't been yet. 23:47 Will do, Tangles! 23:47 gdammit 23:47 wish i hadnt died 23:47 could have shown you 23:47 oh well 23:48 i wouldnt take out a fix 23:48 yeah there's no map in that dumplog :( 23:49 we will get to the bottom of it at some point. 23:50 sounds like a plan 23:50 but yeah it can wait til after tribute tournament 23:50 pick axes arent hard to come by 23:50 Getting to the bottom of things is haqrd when the downstairs is missing, admittedly. 23:51 ... 23:51 hahahah 23:51 speaking of patches 23:51 i'm going to patch the 3.4.3 port with the vorpal fix you did 23:51 if we diverge from nao, so be it 23:52 it could be viewed as nao plus shit they wont bother to fix 23:52 ^ dtype 23:53 Yeah I'm not against the idea. I'm not ever going to focus on developing it, but when it's convenient to apply patches there so they can be more easily be merged into other variants that we are working on (grunt, spork, un), I'm happy to do it. 23:55 ais523: posted the proposal. You probably want to change the text at the top, it's late and I don't know that it's as informative as I was going for 23:56 NetHack 3.4.3 updated 23:57 i will prob add auto open doors to 3.4.3. before next junethack 23:57 should prob do that sooner rather than later 23:59 aosdict: that'll do for now, I think 23:59 looking forward to your response