00:00 "There is a lack of clarity on the origins of cocktails." 00:10 [gh] k2 (Mon Elf Mal Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a hill orc, on T:3711 00:12 at least i didnt lose my armor 00:26 [gh] k2 (Mon Elf Mal Neu) retrieved the Mine's End luckstone, on T:4921 01:18 go K2! 01:19 !amysbane K2 01:20 in #em.slashem.me, you lost your amor 01:25 * Menche finds elenmirie's ghost 01:26 killed by a dagger 01:26 heh 01:27 .amysbane 01:32 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:32 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 01:54 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 01:54 -!- stenno is now known as Guest90648 01:55 -!- Guest90648 has quit [Changing host] 01:55 -!- Guest90648 has joined #hardfought 01:55 -!- Guest90648 is now known as stenno 02:11 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:39 [nd] Grasshopper (Hea Gno Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed greased rustproof +5 helm of brilliance", on T:33727 02:51 [nd] Menche (Sam Hum Mal Law), 6904 points, T:2476, killed by a quasit 02:53 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 02:53 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 02:54 gyah, zapm has numpad on by default 02:55 oh, options menu 02:56 heh, I have a USB numpad at home just in case I want to play Nethack on a device that doesn't have a numpad already 02:57 ... or if I decide to use my left hand for movement instead 03:09 you should learn vikeys 03:10 no numpad required 03:38 I've learned and used vikeys but numpad is better 03:40 I used to work in accounting roles involving data entry using numpad a lot, and I am also a whiz with an adding machine (same layout) 03:41 I used to use adding machines with paper tape and add up huge lists of numbers multiple times every day 03:42 After prepping the banking in the morning and typing the numbers into the adding machine, it would buffer it into memory as it took a little while to print onto paper tape, and then go get coffee 03:42 it would be finishing about the same time I'd get back with my coffee 03:42 with almost 100% certainty of no errors 03:43 vikeys seems barbaric in comparison 03:45 -!- APic has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:46 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:47 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 03:47 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 03:58 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Raisse suddenly disappears!] 03:59 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 03:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 05:04 Blecch! Rotten food! The world spins and goes dark. You come to. 05:04 is that correct grammar? 05:04 "You come to." 05:04 ? 05:05 yes, it's an idiom 05:05 ok thanks 05:05 meaning to regain consciousness 05:05 thinking about it, it's a pretty bizarre idiom 05:06 yeah 05:06 most idioms, at least the individual words that make them up have some meaning 05:06 in germany we say 'you come to yourself' 05:06 I suppose it's probably short for that, or something like it 05:06 and you just have to learn that they mean something else in a given context 05:06 but "you come to" is completely meaningless apart from the fact that it has a meaning for some reason 05:07 I guess it might be a separable verb (along the lines of "you give up")? 05:08 give up, give in, give out... 05:09 you say 'you come to your senses', right? 05:09 yes 05:09 could be a short form of that then 05:10 that has a broader meaning I think... you could use it for "regain consciousness" or it could be more like... I thought about kicking down the shop door but then came to my senses 05:10 hmm right 05:10 but "come to" would not make sense in the second example 05:11 language is weird 05:11 oops 05:11 [fh] stenno (Val Hum Fem Law), 37595 points, T:3229, killed by a soldier ant 05:11 :( 05:11 i hope you can dip for exca as a valk in fiqhack lol 05:12 because i just had a rusty crappy weapon at some point 05:16 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 05:31 [nd] elenmirie (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 16907 points, T:11224, petrified by a cockatrice 05:31 should have got my potion of acid out of the bag as soon as I saw the c 05:32 !pom 05:32 elenmirie: The moon is new for 1 more day. 05:35 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 05:35 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 05:38 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:40 -!- yuring has joined #hardfought 05:41 -!- APic has joined #hardfought 05:54 EPI: baby beholders. All the same attacks as regular beholders, but smaller, faster, with way fewer HP and a lower difficulty level. 05:59 K2: Is there a booze made from fermented scotch bonnet pepper seeds? 06:35 you could infuse vodka with them... (if you wanted to) 06:51 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:25 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:37 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 07:41 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 07:41 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 07:44 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:50 -!- yuring has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 08:10 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:14 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 08:14 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 08:16 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 08:16 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 08:36 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 09:01 K2: I mean, the reason FIQ doesn't like the beholder change is not only that it's a gameplay change, but that it betrays a little bit of developer philosophy, right? 09:01 ^^ I totally agree with FIQ on that one 09:01 LarienTelrunya: Message from rikersan at 2017-09-22 10:59 EDT: well uh I don't hate him that much, but yeah I think it's kinda stupid. Particulary after fighting through asmodeus's entourage, I don't really think the elder priest is needed 09:02 In a game like slex, for example, a deadly monster at a low difficulty level is completely in line with developer philosophy 09:02 heh, slex has grunthack beholders too :D they're just extremely rare 09:02 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 09:03 I presume there is plenty of other deadly stuff at similarly low difficulty. 09:03 -!- stenno is now known as Guest63251 09:03 slex uses a beautiful system called "uncommon monster frequencies", which are essentially fractional frequencies 09:04 e.g. if a monster's frequency is 1 and it has the M3_FREQ_UNCOMMON5 flag, it acts as if its real frequency was 0.2 (every time it would normally be picked, roll a d5 and only if it's a d5, it can actually be spawned) 09:07 -!- Guest63251 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:16 aosdict: Well, I mean, it would always be possible to fork it and offer both versions. 09:19 Yes, but hosting a version of "grunt plus a bunch of bugfixes" and "grunt plus a bunch of bugfixes, also we tweaked a single number in monst.c" sounds silly. 09:20 Well, yes, but with the fork we could then feel free to possibly make additional gameplay changes as they seem appropriate. 09:23 I don't really think there's much of an impetus for further gameplay changes. 09:24 Most of the balance or bad-RNG problems still present in grunt are inherited from vanilla. 09:24 I found elenmirie bones on rogue level... except that elenmirie is a vampire! 09:25 Ooh, that's the next patch I should do. 09:26 and she has equipped some of her former stuff and just zapped herself with teleport 09:26 Death by a monster that resurrects you as something else may not kill you and leave you in that form with intrinsic unchanging. 09:26 *instead 09:26 aosdict: Hmm, wouldn't intrinsic unchanging be weird for vampires? 09:27 Vampires are the edge case. Zombies, mummies and green slimes are more straightforward. 09:27 Right, ideally, vampires should still be able to change, but only into things vampires change into. 09:28 Also werefoo, similarly. 09:28 I actually found her as a vampire bat originally 09:28 But the simple solution of intrinsic unchanging doesn't quite fit with that. 09:28 Right. 09:29 You almost need an additional property, intrinsic, I don't know, limited changing, or antipolymorphitis, or something. 09:29 There's also the issue where a vampire is actually quite nice to be in the late game. (Abuse could be prevented by not having this trigger every time, so you have no assurance of not actually dying.) 09:30 Hmm, I wonder if you could get away with just making it so that _intrinsic_ unchanging, unlike extrinsic, allows things like vampires and werewolves to change to their alternate forms, but not to anything else. 09:31 aosdict: Even with that, there should probably be additional downsides. Like, for instance, maybe you get the amount of HP you'd get if polymorphed into a vampire, rather than the amount you had in natural form. 09:31 Or you can only feed by drinking blood as in Slash'em. 09:32 I'm okay with vampires being somewhat OP to become permanently, as long as the chance of game-over is 80-90%. 09:33 For the moment, at least. 09:33 (even with feeding only by drinking blood, vampires are still pretty awesome, at least in unnethack) 09:34 Oooh, what if only Vlad can do it to you? 09:34 So you can't do it until late game, so you have quite a bit to lose. 09:34 That would let you lower the fatality rate to maybe 50%. 09:35 Nah, it fits established lore that Sir Foo Random Vampire can convert you into a vampire. 09:35 It does, true. 09:38 Hmm, what if turning you into a vampire happens if their bite attack leaves you with exactly 1 HP? 09:39 [nd] elenmirie (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 4661 points, T:3347, killed by a dwarf 09:40 If I recall my old vamp movies properly - if a vampire bites you three times and you are still alive, you become a vampire thrall 09:41 jonadab: well, turning you into a vampire will happen anyway. The question is, does it end your game and leave vampire bones, or not? 09:43 aosdict: What I mean is, what if getting _killed_ by a vampire bite is fatal and leaves vampire bones, but getting reduced to 1HP is not fatal and makes you OP. 09:45 Good, except it doesn't have a parallel to green slimes 09:45 Oh, true. 09:45 Hmm. 09:46 Also, zombies and mummies don't actually bite. 09:46 True. 09:46 Not that that's not easily changed. 09:46 Getting slimed with 100% probability might actually be a "fate worse than death" in this game. 09:47 YASI: zombies have a bite attack, but they only use it if you have a head and are not mindless. 09:48 Zombies are mindless though, no reason they wouldn't just try to bite anything 09:51 -!- notym has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:52 idea: mummies require you to not have magic resistance to turn you, since they are animated by a curse 09:55 That should be curse resistance, which should be a separate thing from MR. 09:56 Please don't make MR do even _more_ different things than it already does. 09:56 Players already consider it the uberresistance. 09:57 How about curse resistance is very uncommon (maybe only a couple artifacts grant it extrinsically, like Magicbane) and MR has no effect on curses? 09:58 aosdict: Hmm, that could work. 09:58 Not sure if half spell damage should affect curses from the curse items spell. 09:58 Since it isn't damage. 09:58 yani: ^ 09:58 Half as many items get cursed? 09:59 half spell damage already does that 09:59 that is what it currently does iirc 09:59 That does make sense. Though it should probably be half rounded up. 10:02 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:02 IIRC, it's 6 / (1 + MR + half spell damage) 10:03 stacking them does help, but it does effectively round up as you say. 6 -> 3 -> 2 10:05 -!- notym has joined #hardfought 10:06 Wait, there's not a random component? I always assumed there was, because NetHack. 10:07 um, probably. d(that number I just said) 10:08 yeah 10:08 * jonadab decides to have another go at ZAPM. 10:09 -!- yuring has joined #hardfought 10:33 -!- nht has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:37 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 10:39 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 10:55 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 10:58 -!- nht has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:10 aosdict LarienTelrunya: perhaps. but seeing as how we've taken an abandoned variant and breathed new life into it, if we want to take just a tiny bit of creative license, i'm pretty sure we're entitled to do just that. 11:10 K2: sure :) it's your server after all; I just personally prefer the unchanged version on esm 11:10 besides... some of the crazy stunts i've seen pulled with FIQhack and slex, I would have though the developers of those variants would understand ;) 11:11 and technically the version on esm is not 'unchanged' at all 11:11 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 11:11 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 11:12 but slex and FIQhack are independent variants :D I even specifically e-mailed the SLASH'EM devteam to inquire whether it's okay to make a fork of their fork, and Ali "Jubilex" Harlow replied and gave his okay 11:13 we messaged sgrunt multiple times. nada 11:13 :( 11:13 it wasnt like the effort was never made. not my problem if the original author doesnt give a shit 11:13 actually I expected the same to happen when I e-mailed the SLASH'EM devs, seeing how they didn't update in a long while, but amazingly it worked 11:14 same with sporkhack. lorimer was kind enough to reply and gave his blessing on the work we did to sporkhack 11:16 but i'm certainly not going to cave in to any pressure to just one or two people getting their collective panties in a wad because I changed one monster in a way that actually makes more sense than it's previous incarnation 11:16 ^^ FIQ 11:17 :) 11:18 alright time to chop more wood 11:18 bbl 11:22 hah one last thing - ask FIQ how many times he's bugged me to add a paranoid water/lava patch into grunthack. you wanna talk about affecting game play and mechanics. that would be HUGE. food for thought ;) 11:23 heh, that would make the mines significantly less annoying 11:34 It would. 11:34 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Raisse suddenly disappears!] 11:34 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 11:34 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v theRaisse] by ChanServ 11:50 K2-inspired YASI: killing a wood golem with fire, or burning more than a certain total weight of objects on a square, creates fire terrain on that space. Standing next to (or on) fire terrain grants cold resistance. 11:51 However, the fire eventually burns out unless you throw more burnables on it. 11:51 does the fire burn your gear and damage you if you step on it? :D 11:52 of course. 11:53 if fire resistant, you take no damage, of course... 11:53 but your inventory still does? 11:53 yeah, why not have it be parallel to a fire trap 11:54 yasi: throwing burnable items onto a fire trap automatically turns the terrain into fire terrain 11:56 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:56 is there a way to easily see which one of copperwater's xnethack branches is new/changed? 11:56 not sure 11:59 stackoverflow turns up "git for-each-ref --sort='-committerdate:iso8601' --format=' %(committerdate:iso8601)%09%(refname)' refs/heads" 12:07 jonadab: considering writing up this recently discussed spellbook change as a patch. Without doing a full fiqhack monster casting overhaul, what might be a good way to deliver more spellbooks to the player? 12:12 [slex] AmyBSOD (Trs Bas Mal Cha), 18882 points, T:4585, killed by a monster (rock troll) 12:15 aosdict: Yeah, I've been thinking about that for a while, haven't drawn firm conclusions. Maybe just have certain key kinds of spellcasting monsters sometimes get a level-appropriate spellbook in starting inventory? 12:18 Statues are also a possibility. 12:19 -!- yuring has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 12:19 Interestingly, I just found out that teleportation beams work to get statues off of statue traps (and then could be broken for spellbooks?) 12:19 Oh, interesting. 12:20 or maybe statue traps never generate with spellbooks, will need to check 12:20 Yes, I did some statue-related stuff in Fourk, e.g., the statues at Medusa's are allowed to have spellbooks (same probability as random statues), and when cockatrices are generated at level-gen time, there are statues placed nearby. 12:27 [dyn] The Tourist (TheTourist) (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 3192 points, T:10900, killed by an owlbear 12:42 [slex] dolores (Che Ang Fem Cha), 4628 points, T:1866, killed by a monster (giant force bat) 12:47 [slex] dolores (Ord Hom Fem Cha), 12 points, T:127, fell into a pit 13:21 -!- notym has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:51 -!- Jonathanhanes has quit [Quit: vanishes] 14:14 -!- notym has joined #hardfought 14:20 -!- jonadab has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:36 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 14:37 -!- stenno is now known as Guest71505 14:41 -!- Guest71505 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:45 hi 14:45 Hello FIQ, Welcome to #hardfought 14:46 K2: oh I'm not going to stress about the beholder change. It rubs me the wrong way, but there's far worse things IMO 14:49 aosdict: vorpal weapons 14:49 come to mind as a new YAAD in grunt 14:50 (not saying that should be changed! was replying to your "most of the balance or bad-RNG problems still present in grunt are inherited from vanilla.") 14:52 Evil Patch idea: diluting potions with e.g. fountains or pools produces "potion of dirty water", which cannot be blessed via altar. 14:57 hmm 14:57 jonadab.jumpingcrab.com is down 14:57 I wonder if it's related to his ping tiemout 15:02 !tell jonadab jonadab.jumpingcrab.com doesn't work 15:02 Will do, FIQ! 15:18 -!- Elronnd is now known as vile_sewer_pygmy 15:19 -!- vile_sewer_pygmy is now known as Elronnd 15:32 FIQ: We had a power blink, give me a few minutes. 15:33 eady is jonadab? 15:33 Da. 15:33 eady is my surname. 15:33 ok 15:34 -!- jonadab has joined #hardfought 15:34 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v jonadab] by ChanServ 15:34 Beholder: Boo 15:34 jonadab: Message from FIQ at 2017-09-23 15:02 EDT: jonadab.jumpingcrab.com doesn't work 15:41 FIQ: Web service _should_ work again now. 15:41 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 15:41 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v theRaisse] by ChanServ 15:41 cool 15:42 !who 15:42 Tarmunora_: No current players 15:47 !rd6 15:47 !4d6 15:47 Elronnd: 4 + 2 + 1 + 5 = 12 15:47 what, that exists? 15:47 !10d10 15:47 LarienTelrunya: 3 + 7 + 2 + 5 + 5 + 2 + 8 + 4 + 8 + 7 = 51 15:47 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:50 LarienTelrunya heh 15:50 !commands 15:50 K2: available commands are !help !ping !time !pom !hello !booze !beer !potion !tea !coffee !whiskey !vodka !rum !tequila !scotch !goat !lotg !d(1-1000) !(1-50)d(1-1000) !8ball !rng !role !race !variant !tell !source !lastgame !lastasc !streak !rcedit !scores !sb !setmintc !whereis !players !who !commands 15:50 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 15:51 wow it goes up to 50d1000??? 15:51 !50d1000 15:51 Tarmunora_: 293 + 572 + 387 + 943 + 192 + 384 + 81 + 490 + 856 + 89 + 567 + 30 + 946 + 763 + 410 + 637 + 761 + 364 + 905 + 663 + 400 + 756 + 467 + 511 + 693 + 684 + 245 + 870 + 140 + 627 + 94 + 248 + 901 + 697 + 907 + 404 + 550 + 754 + 71 + 585 + 328 + 169 + 389 + 539 + 537 + 181 + 115 + 569 + 83 + 552 = 24399 15:51 amazing! 15:51 25025 is the expected value for that 15:51 so it looks like you rolled a bit low 15:51 !50d12 15:51 LarienTelrunya: 6 + 9 + 5 + 2 + 11 + 3 + 6 + 11 + 10 + 1 + 10 + 7 + 5 + 11 + 2 + 9 + 11 + 1 + 6 + 3 + 10 + 3 + 11 + 2 + 1 + 10 + 5 + 5 + 6 + 5 + 9 + 2 + 11 + 9 + 5 + 1 + 12 + 11 + 6 + 3 + 10 + 6 + 11 + 1 + 9 + 10 + 10 + 12 + 12 + 2 = 339 15:51 Let's try again! 15:51 !50d1000 15:51 Tarmunora_: 989 + 511 + 455 + 802 + 169 + 919 + 731 + 381 + 689 + 581 + 332 + 501 + 347 + 373 + 488 + 17 + 34 + 336 + 699 + 129 + 612 + 829 + 745 + 987 + 998 + 291 + 952 + 373 + 648 + 481 + 215 + 471 + 658 + 797 + 111 + 802 + 440 + 920 + 409 + 469 + 935 + 121 + 867 + 466 + 223 + 338 + 385 + 448 + 856 + 577 = 26907 15:51 and so it begins 15:51 Rolled pretty high 15:52 50d12 is the length of hallucination for slex black lasers 15:53 ais523: do you have any idea what this error means? http://jonadab.jumpingcrab.com/pastebin/865.txt 15:53 jonadab tried to compile fiqhack with aimake on windows 15:53 FIQ: there's another change I want to do to grunthack, and it would substantially affect game play. I sent it in as a suggestion for vanilla years ago but (not surprisingly) never heard word back 15:54 yes I know about this change 15:54 :) 15:54 you want to nerf elbereth to make it only work if the player knows about it 15:54 the in-game character that is 15:54 i cant do it on my own though, i'd need Tangles help 15:54 yes 15:54 something I have considered 15:54 meanwhile, that bot syntax is screwing with me 15:54 most bots would have it as something like "!dice 50d1000" 15:54 is to replace elbereth with a chargeable tool 15:55 that engraves the floor with a magical heptagram 15:55 ais523: that's not a bad idea 15:55 burned if blessed, semiperma if uncursed, dust if cursed 15:55 that's dnethack-ish. neat 15:55 FIQ: the problem is that you're trying to create a variable of type "struct flock" but no definition of that type is available 15:55 monsters being afraid of a word that anyone can engrave easily makes very little sense to me 15:56 most likely this is because you're attempting to use the Linux api fcntl(2), without the header files you're using supporting it (possibly because they're for an OS that doesn't support it) 15:57 !5d1 15:57 FIQ: 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 5 15:57 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 15:58 Oh, hmm, if this is file-locking-related, it should maybe be a #ifdef fix. 15:58 I see two possibilities: a) fcntl doesn't work on Windows, in which case that part of the code needs to be rewritten; b) fcntl does work on Windows, in which case you need to work out why the appropriate header file wasn't included 15:58 Because file locking on Windows is almost certainly more trouble than it's worth. 15:58 ais523: but this sounds weird to me 15:58 I haven't really messed with file control in fiqhack 15:59 Building from libnethack\src\mail.c\mail.c (rule compile_c) failed: Command reported failure status 1, with the following command line: 15:59 that file doesn't exist in vanilla NH4 15:59 hmm 15:59 oh that is true 15:59 so I'm guessing you ported it from a source that was written assuming Linux 15:59 but that shouldn't run with public_server off I think? 15:59 let me check 16:00 aimake will still try to compile it if you don't have a "this file doesn't build on Windows" aimake directive 16:00 Oh, the mail.c 16:00 If it's the mail.c stuff, I probably know the fix for that. 16:00 see near the top of libuncursed/src/plugins/tty.c for how you do that 16:00 The body of the check for mail function (everything between { and } ) should just be #ifndef WIN32 probably. 16:00 Because nobody is going to run a dgamelaunch server on Windows, I sincerely hope. 16:02 And that function is designed so that if it does nothing, all that happens is you don't get any mail messages. 16:03 hmm, long-term I'd like to see mail go via the server process, at least optionally 16:03 so that if you're watching someone who's playing local-UI-engine-on-server, you can send them messages 16:03 however, this could also be done via having some sort of command that's usable in watchmode and produces a message 16:03 jonadab: pushed a commit 16:03 try now 16:03 watchmode is basically equivalent to multiprocess play except that you can't write to the save; in this case, you could 16:03 FIQ: Ok, one moment. 16:04 -!- notym has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:06 FIQ: Try the aimake build first? 16:08 yes 16:09 Running that now. 16:09 On this hardware it'll take a few minutes. 16:09 As in, like, maybe 15 minutes. 16:12 ok 16:17 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17 !tell K2 pushed a fix 16:17 Will do, FIQ! 16:17 ok 16:17 K2: Message from FIQ at 2017-09-23 16:17 EDT: pushed a fix 16:18 FIQhack updated 16:19 and dev/null 3.6.0 updated (earlier today) 16:19 Make sure you get the compile-on-Windows fixes :-) 16:20 heh 16:20 I think we're going to have to disable the fallthrough warnings, and rewrite the mextra stuff 16:21 Oh, here we go. 16:21 Let's see what results we got. 16:21 jonadab: I pushed an unrelatede fix as well 16:21 which is why I paged k2 about it 16:22 FIQ: Yes, I saw that. Just making jokes. 16:23 ais523: I'd advise not disabling it completely 16:23 but make any comment count 16:24 FIQ: is there a setting for that? 16:24 there's several toggles for that warning 16:24 yes 16:24 right, the warning isn't even in my gcc 16:24 https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2017/03/10/wimplicit-fallthrough-in-gcc-7/ 16:24 (incidentally, this is something aimake can't do yet: set a warning switch only if the compiler supports it) 16:25 FIQ: 871.txt 16:26 looks to be just the same as before? 16:27 yes 16:27 I don't get why? 16:27 one sec 16:27 https://raw.githubusercontent.com/FredrIQ/fiqhack/efc40ef3fb80bc58a41719139703db25408306b4/libnethack/src/mail.c 16:27 here is the changed file 16:28 note the top 16:28 in jonadab's case, that should be the entire content 16:28 I'm seeing #ifdef WIN32 at the top (under the first lines of comments). 16:28 yes 16:28 FIQ: WIN32 is defined by header file 16:29 it isn't something that's defined by the environment, it's a #define in NetHack's headers 16:29 ah 16:29 hmmm 16:29 you'll need to either #include the header that defines it first 16:29 or use AIMAKE_BUILDOS_MSWin32 16:29 would hack.h work? 16:29 hack.h basically always works but it's very heavyweight 16:30 in general hack.h makes sense if what you're doing relates to NetHack itself in some way 16:30 nethack_types.h 16:30 seems to be what defines WIN32 16:30 right, that's one of the more lightweight headers 16:30 which basically just defines the API 16:31 FIQ: Note too that I'd previously picked 19e538fe513. So you will ultimately need that as well. 16:41 apparently at some point the date updater in Copyright (C) ... broke down for me? 16:43 FIQ: is it even installed? 16:43 see .git/hooks/post-commit 16:43 if it's not there, you can copy it from scripts/vcs-hooks/git-hooks-post-commit 16:43 if it is there, make sure it's executable 16:44 apparently it isn't 16:44 ok 16:44 Be advised, if you do that, you can never again merge anything without a merge conflict on every single file that has been touched. 16:45 jonadab: that only happens if the file was touched on both sorts of the merge 16:45 Well, yes. 16:45 there's a scripts/vim/resolve-date-conflicts.vim 16:45 which I've never used, but it might help, I guess? 16:45 jonadab: try now 16:45 better still would be to identify date conflicts in a VCS hook and autoresolve them 16:45 I asked the git people if there's a way to get git to automatically resolve those. They said no, it's impossible because of arcane technical reasons. 16:47 FIQ: Is dirty build ok now? 16:47 Let's try it first and see. 16:48 If the nethack community weren't thoroughly invested in git, I'd be tempted to see if DARCS or somesuch could handle such things better. 16:48 But even the dev team is on git now, so yeah. 16:49 ais523: I've considered changing alchemy so that you can only alchemize a single potion, would that be silly? 16:50 so 1 potion of extra healing + 1 potion of gain energy = 2 potions of full healing 16:50 Ah, so no net loss unless it fails? 16:50 But no net gain either. 16:50 right 16:51 jonadab: I've personally never been against alchemy but always felt that the way it works in vanilla is very abuseable 16:51 It's a _significant_ change, but I'm not sure it's bad. (I'm not sure it's ideal either. Hmm.) 16:51 FIQ: Well, the way it is in vanilla encourages doing large batches at once. 16:51 yeah 16:51 Which encourages stashing. Not that people won't anyway, but. 16:52 but you end up with a lot of healing potions 16:52 if you hoard things 16:52 Full healing. 16:52 from monsters 16:52 And gain ability. 16:52 FIQ: I'm probably the wrong person to ask 16:52 The healing->extra->full->gain chain clearly has balance issues. 16:52 as I tend not to do long, stash-heavy games 16:52 minimalist? :) 16:52 jonadab: thing is, I don't really mind the chain 16:53 just that with the current way where you can have 40 healing 16:53 jonadab: dirty build should nearly always be OK in aimake unless there's a bug in aimake itself or the way it interfaces with the filesystem 16:53 and 2 gain energy 16:53 and get 40 full healing as a result 16:53 ais523: dirty build causes problems if something you previously tried to compile is no longer present. 16:53 it shouldn't 16:53 I was pretty sure it'd be ok in this case. 16:53 if it does there's a bug 16:54 Main case where it never works is if you change from an experimental branch with a bunch of changes back to a stable branch that doesn't have them. 16:54 There's always something missing from the stable branch that is needed by something. 16:55 I maintain separate build scripts and separate working and build directories for each major branch. 16:55 (master vs bleeding-edge mainly) 16:55 jonadab: another thing 16:55 my current plans for aimake 4 should fix all this, but I don't know if I'll ever simultaneously have a) the time, b) the state of mind to write it 16:55 what if vanilla and color alchemy was merged? :P 16:55 to reduce the spoiler demand on the player 16:55 ais523: and you're prioritizing libuncursed2? 16:55 definitely 16:56 aimake 3 does mostly work, after all 16:56 i.e. you force the appearances in such a way that both alchemy functions would give the sam resul 16:56 t 16:56 FIQ: I greatly dislike both the flavor and gameplay of color alchemy. 16:56 I feel it is the wrong solution. 16:56 jonadab: I dislike the flavour 16:56 and gameplay as well, but that would be obsoleted with this change 16:56 FIQ: that'd lead to some interesting indirect IDs 16:57 I think I like your other proposal better (1+1=2) 16:57 jonadab: I was mostly thinking to reduce spoiler demand 16:57 I dislike color alchemy's gameplay, but am less certain about the flavour being bad 16:57 the player may not remember that full healing + gain energy -> gain ability 16:57 FIQ: You think color alchemy would _reduce_ spoiler demand? 16:57 FIQ: it'd add way more spoilers, though 16:57 but if they know that yellow + blue makes green 16:57 they can do that 16:57 e.g. now you know that gain ability can't be a primary colour 16:57 ais523: hmm 16:57 True 16:57 Yes, right now you have to remember one chain of like five things. 16:57 so if you see a blue potion, you know it isn't gain ability, even in the absence of any other colours or any actual attempted alchemy 16:58 With color alchemy you need *tables*. 16:58 jonadab: part of the reason I wanted to do this 16:58 jonadab: you can expect most people to know that red+yellow=orange even without spoilers, though 16:58 was to extend alchemy further 16:58 without demanding players learning a table of recipes 16:58