00:16 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:16 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 00:18 [fh] Lucky (mtf) (Cav Gno Fem Neu), 30470 points, T:2806, killed by a rope golem 00:25 [fh] Luckier? (mtf) (Mon Hum Fem Law), 22599 points, T:988, killed by a gnomish wizard's force bolt 00:33 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 00:39 [nd] Raisse (Cav Dwa Fem Law) had Demonbane bestowed upon her by Anu, on T:844 00:49 [fh] Luckiest (mtf) (Hea Hum Fem Neu), 33666 points, T:3110, killed by a bat, while praying 00:56 * Tangles is reading about amazon lightsail... 00:57 Depending on how cumbersome the ssh key management is, that might be a good platform for the game server. 00:58 multiple instances in different regions, and fairly low cost. 01:20 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9] 02:17 -!- Elronnd is now known as ^-^ 02:17 -!- ^-^ is now known as Elronnd 03:33 join #devnull_nethack 03:33 oops 03:46 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:46 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 03:46 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 04:25 [nd] elenmirie (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 19023 points, T:8679, killed by a wolf 06:13 [nd] Raisse (Cav Dwa Fem Law) had Grayswandir bestowed upon her by Anu, on T:3644 06:15 having fun with a bag of tricks in the locked minetown temple 06:41 [nd] elenmirie (Mon Hum Fem Neu) killed the Oracle, on T:6754 06:41 [nd] Raisse (Cav Dwa Fem Law) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:3756 06:44 lol, didn't realise I was still illiterate 06:44 it was a scroll of identify 06:47 [nd] Raisse (Cav Dwa Fem Law), 4486 points, T:5888, killed by a gecko, while fainted from lack of food 07:17 Illiterate is one of those ones that often doesn't get broken until a few thousand turns in. It's not as much that way as the wishing and poly conducts, but if you don't routinely write Elbereth for wand-identification, it's common to have games where you don't read or write anything until turn 5000 or more. 07:21 I didn't even have any wands yet except the two from my own bones that I knew were teleport and invis 07:32 And yeah, wands are surprisingly rare in the early game, for as common as they become later. I think this is mostly because a lot of early-game enemies don't have hands. 07:34 Until you start seeing groups of orcs, or go into the mines and start killing a lot of gnomes, kobolds are about the only thing you see that can start with wands. 07:34 And they're not common as on-the-floor items. 07:38 [gh] smzp (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 381 points, T:482, killed by a gnomish lord 07:55 [sp] smzp (Pri Dwa Fem Neu), 1272 points, T:1374, killed by a pony 08:17 [nd] elenmirie (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 21311 points, T:10311, killed by a couatl 08:38 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:51 Tangles: looking at amazon lightsail. it looks pretty good, but the $5/month plan isnt going to cut it 08:53 $10/month would be bare minimum imo. 08:54 however, no one should have to pay for anything, we already have a server up and running with massive amounts of resources available 08:56 starting this year, assuming we are able to obtain the central server code, we could run it all within a VM 08:56 [nd] munterplant (Val Hum Fem Law), 52018 points, T:14041, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted elf-lord 08:57 then for next year look at improving user management (dgl), improving web code, etc 09:35 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 09:35 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 10:52 K2: agreed. Though I'd probably build/test on the bottom tier, then upgrade when it's time to go live. I don't mind throwing a few $ at the hosting. 10:52 dtype said he'd sponsor an EC2 instance as well. 10:58 You resume your meal. You're having a hard time getting all of it down. A voice booms out... "So thou thought thou couldst kill me, fool." You're finally finished. Your health currently feels amplified! 10:58 Nice of Rodney to wait till I finished my dragon snack. 11:04 Tangles: yes saw dtype comment 11:04 that's awesome 11:05 so no worries on hosting, we have multiple sources 11:06 i would really like krystal to respond to people's queries on twitter 11:06 Yeah. It's a real sticking point. 11:08 dont need a response/blessing/link to all source code per se 11:08 but it would sure help 11:09 how's your night goin so far 11:18 Tangles, K2, although IIRC it used to run on some older BSD that didn't take to virtual hosting well. 11:18 probably still does 11:19 option X is still to run it a bit like junethack 11:19 but let me know how I can help. Happy to throw down an instance for testing 11:20 thank you dtype 11:20 i'm going to fire up a VM tomorrow night 11:20 do some prelim testing as i havent done that on ubuntu before 11:21 would do it tonight but i am still at drill (listening in and grading an instructor teaching military history) 11:31 Er, do we now have the central server scripts? 11:33 Last I heard, the only indication that they even potentially might be forthcoming was that people thought it would make things easier if that were the case. 11:34 I do not recommend holding your breath. 11:35 not without an amulet of magical breathing, anyway. 11:39 Quick fix solution to devnull in absence of the code: 11:39 Create new "variant" on hardfought.org that would run the NetHack with devnull challenges. 11:39 And use the junethack codebase for the tournament side of it? 11:40 I'd add devnull scoring to NHS (or someone would write separate scoring). 11:41 jonadab: Not quite sure how would that work. 11:41 jonadab: Unless you want to have Junethack II. 11:43 Well, you'd have to make a few adjustments for things like which trophies there are. 11:43 Adjustments => writing new code. 11:52 As you read the scroll, it disappears. Your silver dragon scale mail violently glows for a while, then evaporates. 11:52 got interrupted disrobing and did not notice :( 11:52 eeeek! 11:53 Ouch. 11:55 dtype: I got the game-server codebase running on a debian-based docker container a while back. It should run fine on ubuntu, or pretty much anywhwere. It's mainly just perl scripts. 11:56 Tangles: cool. I just recall I couldn't run a devnull server a couple years back because I couldn't out of the box their bsd on aws 11:56 one of these days I'll buy a novel and keep it until I'll get flagged for breaking illiterate and then read it 12:10 [nd] Raisse (Cav Dwa Fem Law) had Demonbane bestowed upon her by Anu, on T:4279 12:10 why does Anu keep giving me Demonbane? it's not as if minetown is full of demons 12:11 * raisse resignedly wields it for practice 12:14 this is monkeytown with only izchak's and a deli 12:15 but the deli has a very well-stocked ice box and the temple is coaligned 12:28 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:46 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 13:19 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:19 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 13:27 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:50 Tangles: krystal replied to my question about his intent 13:50 its not goof 13:50 good 13:51 quote: 'my intent here is to retire the /dev/null/nethack tournament completely' 13:51 posted 45 min ago 13:59 https://twitter.com/devnull_nethack/status/909100937536344065 13:59 at least he's willing to connect up anybody who wants to be involved in a new tournament 14:00 bhaak: where did you read that? 14:00 K2: twitter reply to one of my questions 14:01 * K2 goes to look 14:01 https://twitter.com/devnull_nethack/status/909099492191887360 14:01 looks like he wants to retire devnull in name and code. 14:01 yup 14:02 which means if we are to honor his intent, we don't do anything in regards to it 14:02 which isn't really sensible 6 weeks before the tournament usually starts. 14:03 so if there's to be another tournament to fill the void that /dev/null left, it should be something different 14:03 you can't just throw together something in that kind of timeframe. even Junethack took longer and Junethack was simpler to begin with 14:03 agreed 14:03 sad face 14:05 hrm 14:05 well 14:06 so like you said bhaak, no way anyone is going to put together another tournement in time for november 14:06 however, there's next year... 14:08 but dammit, you dont see very many internet based ANYTHING that lasts as long as /dev/null/nethack has 14:17 I vote we keep junethack going until it breaks devnull's "longest-running NetHack tournament" record. 14:18 (Also, I would be in favor of having some kind of tournament in the fall or winter.) 14:21 ^^ both those 14:21 no reason we couldnt make our own tournament to fill the void 14:22 could have even made one along side both junethack and /dev/null 14:24 I will say, that since krystal made clear his intent for /dev/null/nethack, we should honor it 14:24 :/ 14:36 -!- elenmirie has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45 would it be kosher to plan a tournament that behaves exactly like devnull, but isn't named that and has no other official connection to it? 14:45 Hm... 14:45 Just read the tweet. 14:48 End of an era. 14:50 if only absolutely everyone else didn't want the era to end 14:53 aos: Realistically, "behaves exactly like devnull" may not be the best goal. "Inspired by devnull and carries forward some of its ideas," perhaps. 14:53 no it wouldnt be kosher 14:54 if there's to be another toutney, it needs to be different 14:54 *tourney 14:54 But there were already changes people wanted to do _before_ this happened. You don't want to get locked into a "no we can make no improvements because they would be against the spirit of PRESERVING THE THING THAT WAS BEFORE" mindset. 14:56 * Menche liked how users were set up on the system so you could log in via ssh 14:56 maybe folks want to contribute to the long-wanted dgl tournament feature set I've been wanting to do? 14:56 :) 14:56 Menche: From a sysadmin standpoint, that is very much not ideal. 14:57 >_> 14:57 Using dgamelaunch would be better. 14:57 need dgl peering so you can offer up streams to other dgl servers, and vice versa 14:57 and have user tourney registration in the dgl frontend 14:57 can't use ssh pubkeys with dgl D: 14:57 so you should have a menu of tourney games, across servers, to watch 14:58 I've wanted to do server game watch peering for a long time 14:59 ok hitting the yard to work on irrigation 14:59 is it more secure if you make the accounts in a chroot 15:01 Menche: any way one could set up a server to accept ssh connections and transfer them to dgl accounts based on the pubkey? Not sure how ssh's guts work 15:02 a lot of git hosts can 15:08 Menche: It's just better not to hand out shell accounts to random people on the internet. 15:09 ^ that 15:10 nothing wrong with dgl's user handling 15:11 and as a server admin, i sure wouldnt not want to create OS level accounts for potentially hundreds of ppl I dont know 15:11 I mean, I _suppose_ you could make NetHack their shell. But ick. 15:11 *would not 15:11 Yeah, that. 15:12 wouldn't you make nethack their shell 15:12 seems like how you'd do it 15:12 what happens if you forgot to disable ! ? 15:13 ? 15:13 you would start a nethack within a nethack? 15:13 I mean the shell command that's bind to ! 15:16 I mean that's what devnull did 15:18 weren't each of the devnull servers VMs that were created specifically for the tournament then destroyed after? 15:21 yes 15:27 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 15:31 dtype: dgl tournament feature sounds good 15:38 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 15:38 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 15:41 jonadab: devnull made user shell the script that executed NetHack. 15:41 jonadab: But it's security hole. 15:42 It sounds like a setup for finding out who's clever enough to get a shell. 15:43 Exactly. 15:46 Off the top of my head, I don't know of a mechanism for getting a shell in that scenario. But I bet there is one. 15:46 At any rate, devnull is dead. 15:46 And that makes me sad. 15:56 On the other hand, no DCSS tourney and devnull overlap. 15:56 can't you run it in an extremely restricted chroot environment 16:01 The tournament starts in 45 days, 11:58:21 ... I should remove this. 16:04 Menche: You're never quite sure if you've restricted it _enough_. 16:05 dgamelaunch, for all its flaws (*cough* resizing the terminal) is a better way to go, really. 16:08 I thought resizing of the terminal is a nethack issue? 16:39 [nd] Raisse (Cav Dwa Fem Law), 6945 points, T:9176, killed by an air elemental 16:39 !who 16:39 Tarmunora_: No current players 16:58 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:21 bhaak: NH4 handles resizing of the terminal beautifully. But a dlg-based NH4 server does not. 17:27 jonadab: even 3.6 (unsure of 3.4.3) handles it okay, or at least instead of cutting off my long inventory list it realized it couldn't do it on top of the map anymore 17:28 an interesting thing I found out while trying this: evidently, wishing for "hat" will only get you conical hats, not leather hats. 17:29 Hmm, there's probably some obscure technical reason why you always get a conical hat from "hat", but I don't know what it is. 17:31 I did get both cornuthaums and dunce caps, and it's *possible* I simply randomly didn't get a leather hat in 16 wishes for "hat" but it's unlikely 17:38 There are a lot of weird wrinkles in the wish parser. 17:39 I mean, hello, "The very thoroughly historic holy burning email of Sil Verdra Gonscal (3)." 17:40 I have looked at the wish parser code enough to know why it has some weird wrinkles, but not enough to know every single wrinkle in detail. 18:54 -!- Demo has joined #hardfought 18:54 how is nethack? 19:06 -!- greqrg_ has joined #hardfought 19:10 -!- greqrg has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:52 jonadab: shift+z 19:52 er 19:52 ctrl+z 19:52 not shift+z 19:53 bhaak: nethack running inside dgl will be confused when it comes to resizes 19:53 an interesting thing is that if you resize, dgl will pick up on it in some way, as can be seen by watchmode actually getting the right terminal dimensions (it checks if your term is too large or not) 19:53 but this change doesn't carry over to starting games 19:56 FIQ: Ah, if you suspend your shell, you get the shell that's running your shell? 19:57 That specific exploit could be blocked by making the shell not be a shell script, but a program written in something besides shell. 19:57 Perl would work; or you could go C. 19:58 But I still wouldn't trust the setup. 19:58 Giving people a system-level account and then trying to block them from actually using it is just a fundamentally wrong-headed way of doing the thing. 19:59 It's at odds with how things are normally done, so there are bound to be weird corner cases in it. 20:02 jonadab: um 20:02 no 20:02 ctrl+z in nethack invokes a shell 20:03 Wouldn't that call your shell, though, if your shell is set to some weird thing? 20:03 hm 20:03 not sure what would happen in this case 20:03 I mean, you can set your shell to csh on systems that default to sh, for instance. 20:04 And calling the "give me a shell" thing in software will generally give you csh. 20:04 But I don't know for sure what happens if your shell is a shell script. 20:04 THat's a weird edge case. 22:25 hi 22:25 Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought 22:59 gnite all 23:59 [dyn] The Tourist (TheTourist) (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 22203 points, T:22300, killed by a death ray