00:59 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 00:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 01:01 -!- Jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 01:06 -!- Jonathanhanes has quit [Quit: vanishes] 01:16 Just woke up to Krystall's tweets. 01:16 /dev/null's gone. 01:34 he asked for help and we offered help, why didn't he ever react? 02:01 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:25 -!- Crawldragon has joined #hardfought 02:32 [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Fem Law) killed the high priestess of Moloch, on T:76927 02:32 [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:76928 02:45 [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:76970 02:52 ok, something has screwed with jumping over water in nhdev 02:52 must be a bug rather than a nerf 02:52 Is there a kraken hiding there? 02:53 no, i'd be warned 02:53 and also I've seen this happen before trying to jump one of the moats in Rodney's tower 02:54 What actually happens? 02:54 (this time it is when trying to jump over the "invocation" moat) 02:54 oh right. Should be no sea-monsters hiding in there. 02:54 instead of going over the water, I go straight into it 02:55 good thing I had by boh greased 02:56 water walking boots it is then 03:05 [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:77334 03:06 Just read Krystal's tweets... 03:07 elenmirie: He could have said that earlier. 03:07 [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:77364 03:07 But at least it's no on October 31 03:08 yes, or at least answered/acknowledged all the messages he's been sent 03:08 and, he's cleared the decks for someone else to do it 03:09 sounds to me like he wanted to stay involved and took a while to face reality :/ 03:10 Yeah, that. 03:10 [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:77378 03:16 4 hours 39 minutes to Cassini probe plunging into Saturns atmosphere. 03:16 nifty 03:45 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9] 03:45 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:45 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 03:45 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:46 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 03:46 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 03:57 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 03:57 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 04:07 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08 -!- Menche_ has joined #hardfought 04:11 [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:78445 04:24 My twitter question: ight abyss monsters in swamp because of hangedman 04:24 i guess 04:24 Sorry, once again. 04:25 But are you willing to transfer the domain to the gang interested in running the tourney and release central server code? 04:25 Response: 04:25 The code is old and in need of replacing (especially now that there's an update to nethack); it's time to retire the whole thing. 04:36 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:41 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 04:45 [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Fem Law) entered the Planes, on T:78647 04:46 [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Fem Law) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:78651 05:03 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 05:03 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 05:04 -!- Crawldragon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:08 -!- Crawldragon has joined #hardfought 05:45 -!- Crawldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:52 -!- nht has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:08 rip /dev/null 07:12 :/ 07:12 i actually created a twitter account so i could reply to the tweet 07:12 gaaaahhhh 07:16 https://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/saturn-tour/where-is-cassini-now/ 07:16 38 min to end of mission 07:17 rip cassini 07:17 K2: why not make use of the twitter account anyway to offer to assist in that code stuff? 07:17 i did 07:18 that was my first ever tweet 07:18 heh 07:18 look up @hdf_hardfought 07:18 :P 07:22 small fh update that doesn't do anything 07:34 heh 07:35 Cassini plunged into Saturn's atmosphere and disintegrated about 3:31 a.m. PDT (7:31 a.m. EDT) on Sept. 15, 2017. 07:35 83 minutes for signals from Cassini to reach us 07:40 [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Fem Law) killed Pestilence, on T:78946 07:48 woo go Grasshopper! 07:51 [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Fem Law) killed Pestilence, on T:78963 08:06 fun fact: all NH4 variant's pw gain+loss logic on level change is completely broken 08:07 oh wait no it is ok 08:11 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:15 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 08:15 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 08:17 hm 08:18 I am sure nobody will mind Rodney starting out wth like 450 pw 08:18 lo 08:18 l 08:18 Well, he _is_ the fabled Wizard of Yendor. He _should_ be powerful. 08:20 mhm 08:20 I am implementing pw for monsters 08:21 That'll be good infrastructure to have. 08:21 atm trying to figure out how it works for players 08:21 Will the player's Pw be stored in youmonst->data->pw ? 08:21 seems a bit more complicated than it needs to be, but meh 08:21 it already is 08:21 youmonst->pw 08:21 Ah. 08:21 Ok. 08:21 and youmonst->pwmax 08:22 I did that change as part of this 08:22 Right, youmonst->pw, I meant that. 08:22 just check save revision and potentially move it from uen(max) 08:22 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:23 jonadab: well the fact that Rodney's attributes generally put him slightly above player wizards in terms of spellcasting capabilities 08:23 and a Wiz has around 350ish on XL30... 08:24 means Rodney will likely end up around 400-450 08:24 so you'll start by being hammered with spells 08:24 lol 08:24 He should probably get most of the available spells, too. 08:25 he does 08:25 due to how the spell assignments work 08:25 it randomizes a bunch of spells based on XL and whether or not the monster is flagged as a spellcaster (non-spellcasters get spells too, but much more rarely) 08:25 So he can try to polymorph you, and when that bounces off your magic resistance, hit you with cone of cold, fireball, lightning, touch of death, ... 08:26 The nastiest stuff he can do is probably to spam drain life 08:26 I assume he still gets double trouble, via some special Rodney-specific mechanism. 08:26 Drain life, yeah. 08:26 Yes 08:26 he gets double trouble, a level 7 clerical spell 08:26 guranteed 08:26 and his AI is set up to prefer it over every other spell 08:27 If you're relying on a marble ring to levitate over water, will he hit you with stone to flesh? 08:27 EPI: ^ 08:27 I should probably do something similar for things with haste self 08:27 Stone to flesh will only destroy inventory if selfzapped 08:27 Oh. 08:27 You can unstone allies (and in fact, the AI has code for this) with it 08:27 w/o item destruction 08:27 Ah. 08:28 Ooh, so if Rodney hits double trouble and you rubber-chicken one of him, the other one can stone-to-flesh it? 08:28 Yes, assuming it generated with the spell 08:28 Which it probably did (but it can theoretically not) 08:28 That's better flavor, IMO, than having him just double trouble again. 08:28 Though in principle he could do both: double-trouble again first, THEN stone-to-flesh the statue. 08:29 Oh he'll prefer double trouble over stone to flesh if there is a Rodney statue 08:29 Allthough he'll probably *then* proceed to unstone the statue... 08:29 Because 2 Rodneys isn't enough :P 08:29 Did you make rubber chickens cause slow stoning on monsters? 08:29 yes 08:29 Ah. 08:29 So players who know this probably won't use it on Rodney anyway. 08:29 right 08:30 wands of death, especially in its more explosive form, is the most useful thing to use on him 08:30 I generally zap death into a wall to let it hit myself if Rodney shows up 08:30 Because even if he has MR, it'll drain levels? 08:30 to make it blow up 08:30 and ensure a certain hit 08:31 because, as you know, death rays love to miss 08:31 Rodney is good at dodging rays. 08:31 mhm 08:31 so yeah 08:31 I think because high level, or something. 08:31 I just zap a wall 08:31 and wait for the boom 08:32 isn't there a downside to hitting yourself with your own powerful death ray? 08:32 well 08:32 aos: There is. 08:32 you can leveldrain yourself that way 08:32 aos: however, note that I'm not zapping *myself* 08:32 irradiating myself with pure energy 08:32 of course 08:32 but rather I zap a wall and let the bounce hit 08:32 aos: Note that it's hitting you from the side after bouncing, not direct self-zap. So it's the same as a monster hitting you with it. 08:33 Which you have to be prepared for _anyway_, because it _will_ happen. 08:33 I consider this a rather amusing stratagy, it's not something I anticipated when I created the effect 08:33 but I'm totally for it :P 08:33 Yeah, but it's still such powerful death magic that I thought it would carry some guaranteed downside 08:33 leveldrain is acceptable, I guess 08:33 aos: well if you have both magic resistance and drain resistance... 08:35 EPI: since reflecting off walls is used much more to the player's advantage than monsters', it only works 1% of the time, because hey, it's a rough stone wall, why should it be particularly reflective? 08:36 aos: I've considered making disintegrate breath work as digging when dealing with walls 08:38 I wouldn't be opposed to that. 08:38 Other than, you have to decide how it interacts with undiggable wall. Stop, or bounce? 08:41 [nd] Raisse (Cav Dwa Fem Law), 4741 points, T:5744, killed by a rope golem 08:45 just stop 08:46 Principle of least surprise? 08:46 FIQhack updated 08:49 !pom 08:49 raisse: The moon is at last quarter; new moon in 5 days. 08:49 this hwole twitter thing is new to me. not like 'omg what do i do' just different 08:49 whole 08:49 K2: hi Keith. that's what the K stands for. I thought you were a mountain 08:49 hah 08:49 K2 was 'keith 2' in the rock band i used to play in back in the mid 90's 08:50 avoided confusion whenever our kboard player would yell at us 08:50 hi back ;) 08:51 I love mickname stories :) 08:51 err nickname stories 08:51 heh 08:51 Perhaps sometime I should dig up the Saga of Jonadab and pastebin it. 08:51 yeah! 08:52 most long lived nicknames have a decent story behind them 08:52 [nd] Raisse (Cav Dwa Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed +2 grey dragon scale mail", on T:568 08:53 unless your nickname is 'asshole' 08:53 then not so much 08:53 hm, all I wanted was to uncurse my spear 08:54 (and I did uncurse my spear eventually) 08:54 \o/ 08:54 and a wish to boot 08:54 yes! 08:54 I'm not going to wait for my quest artifact to give me MR 08:55 The Saga of Jonadab: http://jonadab.jumpingcrab.com/pastebin/851.txt 08:55 Wrote that up a long time ago for a mailing list I was on. 08:56 ooh aquanoid! 08:56 I used to play that too 08:56 As breakout clones go, it's a pretty good one. 09:06 nice story jonadab! 09:06 my nick originated as a pun 09:06 Wow the nickname stories are coming out tonight. That's a good one jonadab! Nicely told too. 09:07 Tangles: and there you have the origin of Mickmane's nick 09:07 when I started using irc (as Fredrik1994), I felt as if I was living under a rock most of the time 09:07 I should do a similar bit on my website 09:07 and would completely miss a lot of injokes or humor in general 09:07 inspired 09:07 plus another thing 09:08 I generally IRCed a lot from my phone 09:08 nobody else did 09:08 aos: I was just trying to reprise K2's line from earlier, and I screwed up the delivery. 09:08 heh 09:08 so they took Comviq, a phone operator in sweden 09:08 and Fredrik 09:08 FIQ: wait, irc from your phone back in 94? 09:08 and merged it into FredrIQ 09:08 but you made me realize that Mickmane just swapped some letters 09:08 K2: He was born in '94 09:08 ah 09:08 duh 09:09 which also worked to mess with me for missing jokes, i.e. having crappy IQ 09:09 2 years after I started using irc. 09:09 then you're my daughters' age (one born in '94, two in '95) 09:09 eventually it was shortened into FIQ 09:09 and it stuck 09:09 my nickname comes from a roleplaying character 09:09 raisse: heh, cool 09:09 it's a little odd that it kept all its capitals 09:09 you see "fiq" or "fiqhack" from time to time, but not that often 09:10 I used to sign off all my rasfc posts with the name of my current character but Raisse was the one that stuck 09:10 the redr was shaved off 09:10 so the capital letters remained :P 09:11 aos: yeah, I generally use FIQ, FIQhack (or fh, no caps there) 09:11 most others use lowercase 09:12 got any backronyms from people thinking FIQ is an abbreviation? 09:12 K2: I used irc on the phone before smartphones was a thing 09:12 but not in '94 :P 09:12 aos: nope 09:13 allthough some people think it comes from the ARM interrupt thingy 09:13 fast interrupt, fiq 09:13 it is kind of fitting since I occasionally play around with assembly, allbeit z80 09:17 ;) 09:19 huh 09:20 #NetHack does not exist on twitter (nor any combo of upper/lowercase) 09:20 @NetHack you mean? 09:20 #NetHack would just be something you put in your Tweets when discussing NetHack. 09:20 no, the hashtag 09:21 There's no formal list of hashtags, AFAIK. 09:21 Though sometimes groups agree to use a particular one for a particular thing, so they're all using the same one, to boost its popularity. 09:21 it seems that when you start to type in a hashtag, it will give you previously used options based on what you're typing 09:22 s/options/hashtags 09:22 Oh, in the web interface? I gave up on the Twitter web interface a long time ago. 09:22 use the app? 09:22 I use Twirssi, when I can get it to run. 09:22 the web interface isn't terrible for like 09:22 checking one tweet with a permalink 09:22 Insofar as anyone designed hashtags, I think they were intended to be distributed? 09:22 Currently I'm cut off from Twitter, because something something @INC 09:22 anything more complex than that and gg 09:23 * K2 shrugs 09:25 ok so #nethack is used quite often 09:25 just not often enough i guess 09:34 It's probably not Promoted, meaning the dev team didn't pay Twitter any money. 09:40 I don't think hashtags can be promoted 09:41 tweets can (= ads) 09:41 the de/null news made the nethack facebook group 09:41 not often enough" 09:41 gah 09:41 dev/null 09:41 is probably the cause 09:42 gah, do I go back to minetown for the pickaxe I left there? 09:42 hrm 09:42 have you completed protection racket? 09:42 no, didn't even start 09:42 just forgot to pick it back up after shopping 09:42 but pickaxes are rare because I'm a dwarf and I leave the other dwarves alone 09:43 i would say yes if that's something you want to accomplish (the protection racket) 09:43 no, I don't want to do the protectoin racket, I want to dig around iron bars for the teleport scrolls 09:43 ah 09:44 i cant remember, you can use acid to get rid of iron bars in dev yet can you? 09:44 that would be useful if I had any acid 09:44 also a pickaxe is cheaper 09:45 (and the one in minetown already belongs to me) 09:45 gah, something carried it into the shop (probably my dog when I wasn't looking) 09:46 bleh 09:51 K2: I think so 09:52 but only dnethack has the ability to smash them with force bolts? and fh maybe? 09:55 I think I saw an ooze or blob melt iron bars once 09:55 I *think* you can use acid on iron bars in sporkhack as well 09:56 YANI: metal-to-flesh 09:56 heh 09:56 or metal to plastic/cloth 09:57 lol, I don't have to find the throne room, the throne room is finding me 09:57 all making a beeline to my coaligned altar 09:57 eat your way through those bars, and weaken the enemy weapons and armor 09:58 EPI: if a monster sees you wearing a stone ring, it can cast stone-to-flesh on you and turn it into a meat ring 09:58 and marble wands? 09:58 yep 10:02 bug_sniper: YASI: spells to convert every type of material into every other type of material 10:03 You enter an opulent throne room! (which is empty) 10:03 [nd] Raisse (Cav Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed +2 shield of reflection", on T:10126 10:04 [nd] Raisse (Cav Dwa Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased bag of holding", on T:10131 10:05 lol, now I don't need to do soko any more 10:05 not for the prize anyway 10:05 that was a good throne! I also got see invis from it 10:05 (at least I suppose that's what "Your vision becomes clear" means) 10:09 twitter thinks I don't know myself 10:09 (I get myself in "all followers" but not in "all followers you know" 10:09 ) 10:09 it may be right 10:09 you must find your true self to know yourself 10:09 that is what Twitter is trying to tell you 10:10 that is my true self! even with my true hat on! 10:14 All known selves are untrue, and all true selves are unknown? 10:19 reading backlog 10:20 devnull is definitely harder than junethack 10:20 because you have to play vanilla with no curses 10:20 and you have to deal with grues 10:20 and you need to win zapm before you can wish 10:20 no, you don't 10:20 you can always postpone or ignore the challenges 10:21 FIQ: You don't *have* to do either of those things. The no curses thing though, is just how 95%+ of people play vanilla anyway. 10:21 Postpone? 10:21 I know you can ignore them but that's boring 10:21 But what do you mean postpone? 10:21 FIQ: Ignore for current game. 10:21 Hmm ok 10:22 I don't reacall having such an option 10:22 Maybe the prompts are misleading and I thought it was for whether or not to dismiss the challenge completely 10:22 I remember in particular being really frustrated with the grue challenge 10:23 for it making the game basically unplayable until complete 10:25 I predict that if krystal is firm on shutting down devnull, someone else will put something together and have an "unofficial" devnull ready to go by November 10:41 aos: you're in the right channel for that 'someone' to put something together 10:41 or more correctly, group of persons 10:42 like, a fire team sized element 10:43 sure, the chance is higher here 10:45 i wouldnt call it a chance 10:45 work was already started months ago in anticipation 10:46 but now that krystal made the official annoucement, decisions need to be made and progress continued or halted sooner rather than later (imho) 11:01 [slex] bambam (Mar Bre Mal Law) killed Moldoux, the Defenceless Mold, on T:680 11:01 [slex] bambam (Mar Bre Mal Law), 1273 points, T:682, killed by a monster (great wyrm of power) 11:02 * raisse votes for continue 11:11 I am little worried that it's too late for complete reimplementation of the central server. 11:11 I was hoping for Krystal to release the code. 11:11 I just asked him directly, bolstering your request 11:12 via twitter 11:13 i think we have time still 11:13 it may not be a 100% reimplementation this year, but it would be a start 11:13 better than having it go away altogether 11:14 So, what's the plan? 11:14 my thoughts, there's a couple different ways we could do this 11:15 kind of hinges on how krystal responds to the recent questions/comments on his twitter feed 11:16 but worst case scenario - the game code isnt an issue as far as i can tell. it's how much is done and can be done on the web part in time for this november 11:16 we could roll with what we have 11:16 What do we have? 11:17 We have the game server code that relies on unpublished central server. 11:17 what about the work you've done so far? 11:17 little moment 11:18 I've only done clan/player management. 11:18 its a start 11:18 It's pretty useless without integration with the rest of the code. 11:19 hrm 11:19 Which is where I got stuck. 11:19 perhaps others in the community will be willing to help 11:19 Since central server is not public and the way things are done now are pretty lame. 11:20 well lets see - dev/null/nethack tracks what players do in game and awards trophies and the like based on those events yeah? 11:20 not any different really than junethack 11:20 It's not different. 11:21 ok. that's a good thing 11:21 you already know how to write a web based site that can track a multitude of nethack game data across multiple variants (the scoreboard) 11:22 what am I missing that would make this so hard if krystal doesnt release the central server code? 11:22 Essentially, the important part is syncing the info between game servers and the central server. 11:23 thats it? 11:23 It can't run on xlog/livelog like junethack does? 11:23 Currently the game server uses creating actual local accounts on the game server. 11:23 Which is atrocious to begin with. 11:23 Yes, kill that and use dgl accounts. 11:23 K2: You create player on central server and all game servers must create local accounts. 11:23 if we host this on hdf, there wouldnt be separate servers 11:23 its all on the same box 11:24 game/web/database/etc 11:24 Yes, but then it's completely different architecture. 11:24 and you need rewrite rewrite ... 11:24 well lets break it down 11:24 Agaion, it can't just run on xlog/livelog like junethack does? 11:24 *again 11:25 jonadab: That's not the issue! 11:25 Does any information need to flow from the tournament server to the game server? 11:25 jonadab: Yes. 11:25 What? 11:26 jonadab: I have just written that it needs to sync user accounts. 11:26 jonadab: Also apart from xlogfile, there are the challenges. 11:26 jonadab: Their config and state needs to be synced as well. 11:26 Ok, so you need a challengelog. 11:26 jonadab: THat's not how the codebase currently does it. 11:27 jonadab: Currently it just writes stuff into user directories. 11:27 It's a mess. 11:27 I think the challenges are synced using some kind of REST request on the server, but not really sure. 11:27 Tangles would know more. 11:28 Hm, I think also rsync is used for something. 11:28 Hmm, if the challenges are one-time, then the game servers do need to know which ones a player has completed. 11:28 So you do need backflow there. 11:29 Also you need to ditribute rcfiles. 11:29 distribute. 11:29 That's minor, and it's arguable whether it's needed. 11:29 It is required. 11:29 Most players want to edit their rcfiles. 11:30 And all the good ones customize NetHack quite a bit. 11:30 Sure, and they do in June as well. 11:30 Junethack has different architecture. 11:30 It just uses whatever server participates. 11:30 But devnull cannot use this mode of operation. 11:30 Because of challenges, of course. 11:30 Yes, you appear to be arguing that the architecture the November tournament has used in the past is the only one it can ever use ever. 11:31 Well, if you want to keep devnull as devnull, than you probably cannot change that. 11:31 Well, yes, the challenges do mean your servers have to implement special things. 11:31 jonadab: And that's why changing the architecture is no go. 11:31 The challenges also probably make multi-variant support harder to do, if it's even wanted. 11:32 Mandevil: non sequitur 11:32 As K2 said, single-server quick fix version of devnull is probably the least work-intensive variant I can see. 11:32 I mean, yes, adding a game server means more than just adding an xlogfile to the list. 11:32 The new game server has to actually Do The Things. 11:33 But there's no reason the method of communication between the tournament and game servers can't change to something easy to set up and maintain. 11:33 As long as all needed information can be communicated. 11:33 jonadab: Yes, but we don't have the time for reinventing everything. 11:34 Granted, it can't be anything that'll take more than a month to set up. 11:34 krystal releasing the central server code would help immensly 11:34 didn't we say right at the beginning that we wanted devnull to run 3.6.0? 11:34 no variants needed 11:34 yup 11:34 K2: Sure, then you wouldn't _need_ to reimplement anythign this year. 11:35 *anything 11:35 Unless you want to, of course. 11:35 You could run it for a year and then go, "Ok, as expected, this aspect of how it works is a hassle, let's change that." 11:35 [dyn] hothraxxa (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 870 points, T:2522, killed by a Woodland-elf 11:35 jonadab: We definitely should reengineer devnull, but not now. 11:35 path of least resistance would be ideal imo 11:35 and what Mandevil just said 11:35 [nd] munterplant (Val Hum Fem Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:6482 11:36 Mandevil: Sure, if you can get the existing server code, you can postpone all that until December. 11:36 Or 2018. 11:36 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 11:37 When we are rewriting things there should be a consensus about few things. 11:37 Like platform et.c 11:37 sure 11:37 I started with Perl/Dancer, but I guess that's not something poeople would like to participate in. 11:37 group effort/group agreement 11:41 You resume your meal. The Luggage looks a bit confused. 11:42 (thingy sploded in my face when I opened the soko zoo door) 11:42 have to leave for drill in one hour 11:42 not feeling it this weekend 11:43 weekend drill? 11:47 army national guard 11:47 the one weekend a month training, reffered to as 'drill' 11:47 referred 11:48 you know, i think i am going to stop correcting my own spelling mistakes. everyone here knows by now i am a horrible speller 11:48 oh. and yeah weekend drill, but this month it's 2.5 days instead of the usual 2 11:49 So every fourth weekend is a drill for you? 11:49 roughly 11:50 nov and dec drill will be first weekend of the month, wont interfere with thanksgiving/xmas holidays 11:50 [nd] munterplant (Val Hum Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at her by some watery tart, on T:7835 11:50 love that ^^ 11:51 And what do you actually do during the drill? 11:53 in general: train. but it's specific to your job/position. for me, i am the state of vermont's officer candidate school NCOIC (non-commissioned officer in charge). so I help facilitate training for the crop of officer candidates we currently have. right now it's just a a group that just started phase 2 (of 4) 11:53 i'll instruct, but I mainly do behind the scenes work given my position 11:54 make sure everything runs smoothly 11:54 I see. 11:54 9 mile (14.4 km) ruck march tomorrow morning wooo! 11:55 Nice, a trip! 11:55 heh 11:55 candidates have to complete that distance in 157 minutes or less 11:55 with full combat load (35 lbs or greater) 11:56 17.5 min per mile pace of faster 11:56 its not super fast, but it's not a leisurely walk either 11:56 I see. 11:56 i am sooo not ready hah 11:56 but i'll knock it out anyways 11:56 That's like 18 kg. 11:57 Hmmm, that's not exactly walk in the park. 11:57 yeah. not too bad 11:57 Sounds pretty bad to me. 11:57 in combat i've had to hump over 100 lbs on my back before. which is partly why my back is screwed up now ;) 11:57 Ugh. 11:58 i think maybe the consistiently carrying/wearing 60-65 lbs all day everyday is what really messed it up 11:58 doing 100-110 lbs is not normal 11:58 60 pounds is still damn heavy. 11:59 you get used to it 11:59 and then when you take everything off you feel like you can fly heh 12:00 nowadays if i do more than 50 lbs I have to be *very* careful 12:02 final packing check. brb 12:05 [4k] Zappi (philbo) (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 12990 points, T:7614, killed by a giant mimic 12:09 all good 12:21 When I was a student, I used to routinely carry a 8-10 textbooks around. Not sure what that comes out to in pounds. 12:22 a lot 12:22 They aren't all equal, of course. 12:22 One calculus books is worth about two and a half literature books. 12:23 The heaviest one I ever had was the BAGD lexicon, when I took Greek. 12:24 argh I ate perhaps two dozen fire ants and NONE have given me fire resistacne 12:24 a huge anthole full 12:25 EPI: the first time you eat a particular type of corpse, the game decides which intrinsics you do and don't get from it. This remains consistent for the rest of the game. So if you don't get teleport control from your first tengu, you won't get it from additional tengu, no matter how many. 12:25 yes, that's evi 12:25 l 12:26 (Actually, that could be a positive change that reduces tedium, if the game were balanced around it. But currently the game is balanced around the assumption you can get all intrinsics you want, so yeah, no.) 12:29 hitting the road. see you all later 12:47 eek, Ishtar sent me an air elemental when I converted her altar 12:47 fortunately not a souped-up Plane of Air one, and I repaired and rustproofed my mace 12:51 I don't think I've ever gotten a minion from ordinary altar conversion 13:08 jonadab: Just remove getting intrinsics from corpses entirely. 13:10 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:11 Mandevil: Actually, I want to do the opposite: make them time out, and remove most sources of faster metabolism (e.g., spellcasting hunger) and balance the intrinsic timeout rate that which corpses to eat for the intrinsics and which intrinsics to not care about (or get extrinsically instead) becomes a choice. 13:19 Yeah, outright removing it would just remove a compelling piece of gameplay and make ascension kit gear even more required. 13:29 -!- Crawldragon has joined #hardfought 13:37 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:37 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 13:50 [nd] Raisse (Cav Dwa Fem Law), 85165 points, T:21877, killed by an energy vortex 13:50 eeeeek 13:51 stepped off my scroll of scare monster and it engulfed me 13:51 and all my wands had run out 13:56 -!- Crawldragon360 has joined #hardfought 13:58 -!- Crawldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:58 -!- Crawldragon360 is now known as Crawldragon 13:59 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:00 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 14:11 -!- Menche_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11 -!- Menche_ has joined #hardfought 14:18 . 14:18 LarienTelrunya: Message from jonadab at 2017-09-13 15:57 EDT: Does Slash'EM Extended have an "Absent Minded Professor" role yet, with a quest to save the university funding and recover the stolen flubber? 14:18 LarienTelrunya: Message from aos at 2017-09-14 14:36 EDT: if slex doesn't already have something defined for "noob", end-of-game enlightenment should say "You were a noob" if you died with 0 points. 14:18 !tell jonadab well slex has the graduate role, which is kinda university-themed, but different from your suggestion 14:18 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 14:19 !tell aos the wild talent role has "Poschengband Noob" as the experience level 1 rank title :) 14:19 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 14:21 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 14:21 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 14:32 [slex] dolores (Gan Ang Fem Cha), 12556 points, T:2827, killed by a bolt of fire 14:51 LarienTelrunya: well, it still works then, right? I don't think there's any way to get past the first rank title without getting some score 14:51 aos: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2017-09-15 14:19 EDT: the wild talent role has "Poschengband Noob" as the experience level 1 rank title :) 14:52 of course, slex could do something weird I don't know about 14:53 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:54 aos: have you ever thought about actually playing slex, so you can possibly get a bunch of YANIs for your list? ;) 14:57 they're not YANIs if slex has already implemented them 14:57 and I played one game of slex. I was permanently hallucinating or something and died on level 1 14:58 haha, sounds fun! 15:09 -!- Menche_ is now known as Menche 15:18 [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Fem Law) killed Pestilence, on T:78992 15:22 [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Fem Law) killed Famine, on T:79021 15:28 [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Fem Law) killed Famine, on T:79044 15:29 Evil Patch Idea: monsters zap wands of levelport at your pets. 15:29 jonadab: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2017-09-15 14:18 EDT: well slex has the graduate role, which is kinda university-themed, but different from your suggestion 15:30 [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Fem Law) killed Famine, on T:79061 15:31 :D 15:35 [nd] Grasshopper (Cav Dwa Fem Law), 3597109 points, T:79063, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/G/Grasshopper/nhdev/dumplog/1503259936.nhdev.txt 15:36 Of course, since this is an evil patch idea, the only wan wands of levelport are ever generated is in monster inventory, and that only happens if you have maintained pacifist conduct so far. 15:36 only *way 15:36 [nd] munterplant (Val Hum Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:11634 15:37 How about giving certain monsters a "levelport pet" gaze attack instead? That way the player can't claim the wand for themselves :D 15:44 just make weeping archangels attack pets 15:44 or, whichever one levelports stuff 15:47 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:51 cl 15:51 ooops 15:51 congrats Grasshopper 15:52 right, just skimmed backlog for the relevant bits about devnull... 15:52 I totally agree that there's no time to reinvent everything, or indeed anything. 15:53 The question is, is there enough to recreate on a 3.6.0 platform? 15:53 Given that there's only six weeks more before (potential) showtime 15:54 I know there's been some talk of radical changes to devnull, but IMHO this is not the time. 15:54 We have a variant tournament in June, this is the one that has always been vanilla+optional challenges. 16:05 elenmirie: Yes, I think it should be kept that way. 16:06 elenmirie: If it is to be called "devnull" 16:07 and IMHO there is too little time this year to come to any sort of consensus on appropriate changes. We'd just spin our wheels and end up with nowt. 16:07 The only way it will happen is if we just say, this is what it's going to be this year and crack on with it 16:08 elenmirie: That's my feeling. 16:08 :) consensus of two! yay. 16:12 [4k] Sappu (philbo) (Wiz Syl Fem Cha) heard a rumor from The Oracle, on T:4722 16:16 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 16:16 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 16:17 [4k] Sappu (philbo) (Wiz Syl Fem Cha), 14220 points, T:5458, killed by an owlbear 16:19 -!- Crawldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:20 -!- Crawldragon has joined #hardfought 16:27 elenmirie: agreed, but once someone says something concrete you'll get disagreements 16:28 for one, how many of the usual devnull competitors would be annoyed at basing it on 3.6.0 for the E nerf alone? 16:28 -!- Crawldragon360 has joined #hardfought 16:30 -!- Crawldragon has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:30 -!- Crawldragon360 is now known as Crawldragon 16:37 aos: So what? 16:37 aos: Most people picked up NH 3.6.0 16:38 aos: It's the official release, just as 3.4.3 had been. 16:38 People have got too used to NetHack being entirely static. 16:39 Yes, it'd probably be fine, but some people might just be too used to 3.4.3 and its easy Elbereth and abuses 16:39 No reason to be frozen in place because of them. 16:40 I play Crawl and there are two releases per year and each release brings significant changes. 16:40 NetHack release cycle is glacial compared to that. 16:40 I agree, I'm just saying that there's probably no way to get everyone on board 16:41 Devnull already had lot of players who didn't want to participate because of no UI patches. 16:43 Player participation is one thing, but the other is the speed of development 16:44 because as elenmirie said, decisions must be made quickly 16:50 but there needs to be at least a minimum of discussion because nobody's going to say "this is what devnull 2017 will be, let's get cracking" on their own 17:01 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:31 aos: Go with a system where somebody makes a proposal, and if at least two of the people who are actively contributing work agree, you go with that. 17:31 You know, at least provisionally, unless a better proposal comes along with more agreement. 17:37 I should say, the people who are contributing actual work or resources (e.g., hosting). 17:50 As far as I'm aware, there's actually a backlog of proposals to draw from, right? (As far as challenges, etc go.) 18:11 -!- Elronnd is now known as ^^ 18:11 -!- ^^ is now known as Elronnd 18:16 -!- Crawldragon has quit [Quit: If beer is liquid bread, what is liquid peanut butter?] 18:28 aos: Oh, I thought the challenges and stuff were actually implemented, as far as the player-facing stuff is concerned. At this point I thought it was the tournament-server side of things that had to be sorted out. 18:28 But I might've missed something; I was on circ desk today, so my attention to IRC was intermittent. 18:41 -!- Elronnd is now known as ^_^ 18:41 -!- ^_^ is now known as Elronnd 20:30 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought 21:15 -!- Webmant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:17 -!- Webmant has joined #hardfought 21:59 'morning. 21:59 I have just read the backscroll too. 22:01 I'm on board with the devnull discussion here. Let's keep devnull as devnull. 22:03 It should run on 3.6.0, which is the current official vanilla release (and the code already works). 22:15 Hosting is a bit of a pain on the current platform, because it creates accounts on the OS. Really we need to do it somewhere that can spin up VMs or containers. 22:35 why not run it as a selection via dgl? 22:36 That's the obvious way, but apparently the code doesn't work like that and will need some overhauling (?) 22:38 just read backscroll 22:39 concerning decisions being made quickly - i directly asked krystal what his intent was and if he was willing to release all the source code, as did Mandevil 22:39 i say, if there's no response by monday, we decide how to procede on our own 22:40 we have 6 weeks ;) 22:41 and i dont see why the code 'doesnt work like that'. surely it cant be that difficult to look at one system vs another for creditials 22:41 having said that... 22:41 Personally I know nothing about the code. 22:42 Tangles suggestion of running a VM (assuming we got a hold of all of the old code) would be the quickest/easiest way 22:46 that can be done fairly easy 23:23 -!- Jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 23:48 Indeed. I'm not saying it can't (or shouldn't) be overhauled to use dgl or some other user management system, just that it doesn't currently work that way, so will be more work to do so. 23:55 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:56 On the other hand, would it be easier to set up VMs everywhere? 23:56 Well, one VM, I guess. 23:56 and I guess that's K2's call