00:02 yeah I saw that 00:02 starting now though 00:02 I'm watching on some guy's periscope from his living room 00:03 I feel like I'm in his living room 00:12 https://twitter.com/SBNation/status/901657445969272832/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fboxing%2F2017%2F08%2F26%2Ffloyd-mayweather-conor-mcgregor-fight-live-blog-analysis-updates 00:52 [dnh] k2 (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +3 tie-dye shirt of shambhala", on T:32085 00:56 [dnh] k2 (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +3 gauntlets of spell power", on T:32099 00:57 everyone's wishing for shambhala 00:58 one of the big deal things it does is increase your carrying capacity 00:59 I guess the enlightenment effect is also nice 00:59 fight is over 01:00 wont spoil it 01:02 because i have wishes to burn, gonna grab some YDSM 01:02 i killed a couple yellow dragons earlier but they didnt drop scales 01:04 apparently high level monsters in gehennom and elsewhere can cast flesh to stone 01:05 and YDSM in dnethack confers stoning resistance as well as acid res 01:05 hopfully i come across a chromatic dragon later on, but YDSM will do nicely 01:05 (dnethack) 01:05 [dnh] k2 (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +3 yellow dragon scale mail", on T:32102 01:22 k2, can't you just wish for chromatic dragon scale mail and get all the resistances? 01:27 no its non wishable 01:28 according to wiki 01:28 there's a 16% chance of that dragon showing up in gehennom as a non caveman 01:28 1/8 01:49 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:49 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 01:50 -!- Crawldragon has joined #hardfought 02:08 -!- greqrg has quit [Quit: Disconnected] 02:19 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Orc Fem Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:4134 02:36 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 02:51 [nd] Raisse (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 10507 points, T:7035, killed by a warg 03:09 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 03:11 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:11 -!- elenmirie_ is now known as elenmirie 03:14 [dnh] k2 (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed can of grease", on T:35072 03:30 [dnh] k2 (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed Dagon, on T:35285 03:31 [dnh] k2 (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) killed Kostchtchie, on T:35289 03:34 [dnh] k2 (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 1234058 points, T:35316, killed by a marilith, while paralyzed by a monster 03:34 fuck me 03:35 ouch 03:36 Dagon summed in all these other high lvl demons 03:36 Aldinach stole all my shit 03:36 game over 03:37 and something kept changing my dna it said even tho i thought i still had MR 03:37 anyways 03:37 not too shabby for my first ever serious dnethack game 03:38 !lastgame 03:38 K2: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/dnethack/dumplog/1503634436.dnh.txt 03:39 yeah, always keep an engagement ring handy in gehennom 03:42 in case someone wants to propose to you? 03:43 hah 03:44 i'll be better prepared next go around now that i know what to expect 03:53 That was also Aldinach. The "DNA changing" attack is not resisted by MR, on the grounds that it's not exactly magic. 03:58 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:04 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 04:04 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 04:05 it's "received", not "recieved", btw 04:05 first line of that dumplog under "Final attributes" 04:05 what is "weakness from being studied"? 04:06 i before e except when it's not because English don't give a fuck about consistency 04:22 -!- jared55 has joined #hardfought 04:22 should i not leave irc running on a labtop that i just put to sleep? 04:22 dont wanna spam with reconnects and such 04:23 raisse: It's a short-lived debuf caused most often by the modron "studies you intently" gaze attack. 04:23 It basically works like an AC penalty, and in the most recent version is also displayed as a change in your AC. 04:24 jared55: I think your connection would just time out once? I don't think irc would actually be running while the laptop is asleep. 04:25 This does mean that there's no point in leaving it running in the first place, of course. 04:29 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:37 cool i didnt want to annoy 04:37 well time to get my ass kicked 04:39 yea i just had to leave ina hurry before and forgot to close thought i just left the terminal running 04:49 -!- Crawldragon has quit [Quit: If beer is liquid bread, what is liquid peanut butter?] 04:50 [fh] Jared (Jared55) (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 38812 points, T:2753, killed by an owlbear 04:50 thats okay i wasnt fond of that run 05:04 only elenmarie and i playing. kick ass elenmarie! 05:04 :) 05:04 food poisining doesnt sound fun 05:04 !where 05:05 !who 05:05 FIQ: Jared55 [fh] wyk [nh] 05:05 hm? 05:05 it just lists who is playing 05:06 oh. one question for ya 05:06 ok 05:06 go on 05:07 does armor type effect spell cast succes on fh? 05:07 !lots elenmirie 05:07 oops 05:07 success 05:07 !lotg elenmirie 05:07 May the Luck of the Grasshopper be with you always, elenmirie! 05:07 lots of elenmiries 05:07 jared55: metallic armor will impede spellcasting success yes 05:07 this isn't fh-specific 05:08 okay i wasnt sure i usually only pick up leater studded and such 05:09 -!- rumflump has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:10 -!- rumflump has joined #hardfought 05:11 8 clear potions in a shop woo 05:11 that's a lot of water 05:12 ye is the most expensive one holy? 05:13 5ish zm is uncursed water 05:13 100 base price is unholy or holy 05:13 ah okay 05:13 4 were 6 one was 8 1 was 133 and the other idk 05:14 wat 05:14 im pretty sure 05:14 i dont undewrstand price identifying yet 05:14 numbers 05:14 how do i look at my log 05:14 w were 6 were 8 1 was 133 05:14 4 were 6 were 8 1 was 133 05:14 ?? 05:14 oh I get what you were saying 05:15 1 was 133 zorkmids 4 were 6 zorkmids and id definatly seen one at 8 zorkmids 05:15 some commas disappeared 05:15 but yeah 05:15 the 133 one is unholy or holy 05:15 this keyboard is horrible tbh 05:15 i miss alot of keys 05:17 oo time to try out this spell quiver 05:39 tame orange dragon is prolly a good pet? 05:41 or does it have a downside like insatiable hunger 05:52 [nd] elenmirie (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 4066 points, T:4187, poisoned by a rotted quivering blob corpse 05:53 o.0 05:53 is there n instristic for eating those? 05:53 an* 05:53 you better have sleep res 05:54 cause the dragon? i noticed the sleep breath 05:54 you mean against food poisoning? no, but there are lots of ways to get out of it, none of which I had/was willing to use 05:54 because conducts 05:54 i thought that was a major + 05:55 atheist 05:55 no i didnt know if you ate it or what i wasnt watching 05:56 oh, yes, I stupidly ate a corpse I thought my cat had just killed, but it must have been there for a while 05:57 i also dont understand how to view replays yet.ive tried. that seems a little beyond my comprehension 05:58 ihave two wands of polymorph shouldi poly that orange dragon again FIQ? 05:58 why 05:58 I'd keep the orange dragon 05:59 bad times if it turns on me 05:59 you might kill it 05:59 find more pets and poly them 05:59 right on 06:00 strongest pet in fiqhack is archdlich 06:00 *arch-lich 06:01 unless wishing in which archons are better 06:01 ah. dragon put a second pet to sleep so my tripe ration missed lmao 06:02 now i have a gray and orange dragon 06:10 jared55 the dragon tamer 06:10 i cant remember the game of thrones dragon names but one is viserion lol 06:14 goin for fathor of dragons atm 06:14 father 06:14 well i guess im already there if anyones seem got. spoiler alert 06:17 jesus christ 06:17 i just got hit by sleeping gas like 6 times in a row i see what you mean now 06:17 snack on an elf 06:17 how do i view the log on pc? 06:18 #log? 06:18 ohp didnt mean to tag someone 06:19 these dragons are vicious af but i guess that pretty realistic 06:21 omfg 06:21 [fh] Jared (Jared55) (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 38908 points, T:3194, killed by a gray dragon called "Viserion" 06:23 aw 06:24 -!- jared555 has joined #hardfought 06:24 apparently i put on a ring of conflivt for 2 turns 06:25 now i know what that ring actually does 06:25 conflict between cats and dogs makes more sense now 06:25 oh... I guess that's something you shouldn't do when next to your pet dragon (especially with FIQhack dragons) 06:26 i just play fiqhack for the mage power boost 06:26 dragons are stronger? 06:26 iirc, or am I thinking of a different variant? not sure :/ 06:27 in grunt they can swallow you 06:27 eek 06:27 yes 06:27 ring of slow digestion ftw 06:27 yes it ups the value of that 06:28 in vanilla i scum as a wiz for that 06:28 i only play wiz. might be my first mistake 06:28 it's not the easiest class to get started 06:28 they become very powerful in the late game if you can get that far 06:28 i should of ascended one day 06:29 but instead of levitating. i froze the lake in gehennom 06:29 and someone zapped a wand of fire 06:29 :( 06:29 hate when that happens 06:30 i mean. maybe i would of ascended. idk.i tried wizard mode with a ascensionkit once and still got my shit whooped 06:31 fiqhack dragons are stronger 06:31 but in different ways than grunthack ones 06:31 fiqhack dragons are *fast* 06:31 maybe being max everything made it a little harder? 06:31 right they kept up with me with speedboots 06:31 and move more tactically (Smart Kobold-esque if you've played it) than general monsters do 06:32 i never knew wad of speed monster was perma. that woulda helped alot beofre like 4 days ago lol 06:32 saw that on discord 06:32 they are not generally 06:32 wand 06:32 however with skilled or more power they will give intrinsic speed on top of the extrinsic temporary boost 06:33 it's true in vanilla 06:33 yeah i play alot of vanilla on my phone 06:33 elenmirie: True, but jared555 generally plays fh 06:34 :) 06:34 haha tricked ya 06:34 i play more vanilla on phone than fh 06:34 Ah 06:34 you know about the wand "balance" patch jared555? 06:34 But I assumed you were referring to fh here :P 06:34 that's in FIQ and 4k 06:34 im at 3.4.3 on phone 06:34 I see that elenmirie doesn't consider it balanced :P 06:34 hahahah 06:35 I dunno, I always get screwed somehow :) 06:35 Heh 06:35 so maybe that's balance 06:35 negativve though.whats the balance> 06:35 ?* 06:35 There is a wiki article 06:35 ill look it up then 06:35 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Wands_Balance_Patch 06:35 nethackwiki.com/wiki/Wands Balance Patch 06:36 yeah 06:36 elenmirie beat me to it 06:36 with a nice clickable link 06:36 useful knowledge for playing FIQ and 4k 06:36 I think those are the only two that implement it... 06:36 thats pretty cool tbh 06:36 It is probably the single largest change fiqhack has 06:36 i like smarter enemies 06:37 jared555: That's unrelated to the patch 06:37 oh ok ill click the link 06:37 I did a barbarian in FIQ for junethack... just because I was doing barbarians and didn't think until I started that they can't get any wand skill 06:37 Enemies being smarter is merely just 1: rewrite of their item use logic and 2: some tweaks to AI in general 06:38 ohh scaling 06:38 (for example, enemies in fiqhack has the monster equavilent to "autopickup exceptions" meaning they're much more willing to pick stuff up and pester you with) 06:39 and a few monsters who were especially dumb compared to gameplay or flavour were given additional changes 06:39 i feel like i get screwed alot more by scrols than wands butmaybe i just havnt had that experience 06:40 like for example, gnomish wizards no longer walk up in melee "yo, kill me" 06:40 but keep a distance so they can cast their spells 06:40 and not have to deal with melee hits 06:40 (same with kobold/orc shamans) 06:40 and dragons were given special AI as mentioned 06:41 im not that advanced that i notice those certain things yet lol. but it is pretty cool to know 06:41 I think the changes to gnomish wizards/etc might make them a bit too deadly with the more potent early-level player spells 06:41 but I don't know 06:42 im sad i missed slashem on ios. if i knew it was a nethack variant two years ago id have downloaded it. 06:42 heh 06:43 jonadab: what are your opinions on the gnomish wizard/etc change now that you've played fiqhack a bit? 06:43 do you think they're too mean? 06:44 i never do mines before sokoban so im usually strong enough i dont think mines are horrible at all. 06:44 -!- Grasshopper_ has joined #hardfought 06:44 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper_] by ChanServ 06:45 it depends on what you do hwne you get to the uh... village? 06:45 when 06:45 minetown 06:45 ye whoops 06:45 as long as you have a light source mines are pretty easy imo 06:45 in any version 06:47 its still only elen playing? im so bad and slow im a little embarassed to try 06:49 !who 06:49 elenmirie: elenmirie [nd] 06:49 yep 06:49 someone on discord mentioned me pickin up 4 gray stones once at the end of the mines when i was practically completely unspoiled and knew nothing about loadstones and idk it just felt demeaning 06:49 heh, we're a pretty forgiving bunch in here 06:50 i got called a noob which is okay it just was the way it was done 06:50 yeah, they can be that way sometimes 06:50 I don't go on discord, but in some channels 06:51 i do gacha games mostly on discord. its weird to be called noob after playing like a year 06:51 an advanced noob :) 06:52 i just didnt look the whole game up. i thought that was normal difficulty lol 06:53 like that game zork. you arent gonna beat it for awhile unless you looked it up or played something like it 06:53 thats just text adventure though. dif category 06:53 if you don't want people to see all your yasds, you can use the mintc command to tell beholder not to announce deaths before you reach a certain turncount 06:53 i dont mind 06:53 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:53 jared555: must be in a bad place then 06:54 RLdiscord people are generally nice 06:54 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 06:54 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 06:54 were inthe same discord fiq 06:54 hmm 06:54 maybe it was just a bad day lol 06:54 never seen people do stuff like that 06:54 or maybe it was just people messing with you and not meaning any harm :P 06:54 no they generally arent and it wasnt anybody popular 06:55 was just a tad demeaning 06:55 jonadab: ok so I asked what thing MTF used for ssh client 06:55 I knew he used something weird but forgot the name 06:56 apparently he uses MobaXterm 06:56 it has 24bit color support 06:57 the way it worked was the person called me a noob then i said i was unspoiled and he tried to give me advice fyi. 06:57 he didnt think iwas in the discord im pretty sure 06:58 not a big deal but :( 06:58 yeah that kind of thing is annoying 06:59 In terms of spoilers, NetHack is in a very, very different category from Zork. 06:59 not sure why i cant find it with specific word search 07:00 The whole point of Zork is to figure out the puzzles, that's what the game is about. Once you know how to beat it, there's no point playing it any more. 07:00 yea it feels alot harder to find out things in zork 07:00 Yes, Zork is not an easy game. 07:00 But it's a play-once game. Well, beat-once. 07:00 NetHack is at the opposite end of the spectrum. 07:01 You beat NetHack once, you're probably still a noob. 07:01 right. even if you kno it can still bang ya 07:01 it's a play once, get hooked forever game 07:01 I was being called a noob on the #nethack channel after playing the game 20+ years 07:01 lol Grasshopper 07:02 why because no Elbereth? :D 07:02 but it's only when you prove yourself that you lose the handle 07:02 xD no way grasshopperive seen youascend multiple times i think 07:02 fuck this spacebar btw everyone sorry 07:03 elenmirie: I had a different playing style to many of the #spoiled players on #nethack 07:03 whats your class? 07:03 I reckon I was having more "fun", so as long as I was happy... 07:03 mmm, yeah, how many of them have done 19-streaks? 07:04 19 ascension streak? 07:04 yes, and with no Elbereth. That's our Grasshopper 07:04 heh, not many. I recall Chris67 and anselmus have a few digs from time to time, but I enjoyed the sparring so no grudges or whatever 07:04 have/had 07:04 :) 07:06 yeah, would love to top that 19 streak but might be a bit harder without the container/shop credit bug in raw 3.6.0 on NAO 07:06 u can do it 07:06 in that streak I felt a huge sigh of relief as soon as I found even a large box 07:06 !streak 07:06 Grasshopper_: No streaks for Grasshopper_. 07:06 !streak Grasshopper 07:06 Grasshopper_: Grasshopper Max[nd]: 6 (2017-03-17 - 2017-05-14). Current[gh]: 2 (since 2017-06-27). 07:07 I've got 6 so far on hardfought, it's a tart 07:07 start 07:07 ooops 07:08 large box why? 07:08 container/credit bug in 3.6.0 07:08 sorry i just like to learn more since i feel i got close 07:09 ill look it up 07:09 if you drop a container you own in a shop (don't sell it) and put your $$$ into it they are added to your shop credit, when you take them out your credit is not reduced 07:10 rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat etc 07:10 until you have like 20k credit then just do whatever you want 07:12 oh id never do that 07:12 thats how you got 19? 07:14 or it just helped you with on or two runs? cause thats still way more than respectable 07:14 it helps but it doesn't ascend for you :) 07:15 that just seems like n easy thing to fix.but yea i see what ya mean 07:16 well, they did fix it in 361 07:16 so now you have to work harder again to steal 07:16 i might have to try some slashem. more monsters spells and artifact? 07:16 it does help a lot with speed... most of my sub-20K games are 360 with the bug 07:18 I don't know much about slashem... 07:19 Grasshopper_, why not just have your pets steal what you need? 07:21 NetHack Fourk updated 07:23 is bug sniper an actual person? 07:23 either yes or its the smartest bot i've ever seen 07:24 it caught one bug i seen myself but wasnt sure on the second but still reported 07:24 Grasshopper_: you scummed your way to a 19-streak? :P 07:25 what a noob ;) 07:25 lol 07:25 i feellike only wizards scum. not true? 07:25 jared555: that's different, that's startscumming 07:26 which is kind of... not really possible in a streak :P 07:26 No amount of shop credit can lead to a 19-streak if you don't have some idea how to play the game. 07:26 priests startscum too 07:26 I've seen some people on irc run a bot on top of their nick 07:27 jonadab: what if a startscummer was implemented as part of the game (like in acehack), but marked as a conduct? 07:27 like grape giving scp foundation entries when they say something 07:27 with the scp number 07:27 FIQ: ais is on record saying that rather than a reroll scummer, what he wants is a point-buy system for starting inventory. 07:27 adom has that for attributes 07:27 it's terrible 07:27 Still trying to decide if I agree. 07:28 Because, yes, the problem is you don't want to make character creation tedious. 07:28 the only reason i startscum in vanilla is for a ring of slow digestion (which might be stupif) 07:28 stupid* 07:29 it takes about 10-25 reatsrats. but if i start with a blessed scroll of enchant armor i go for it 07:29 restarts* 07:31 oo i can watch k2 play for like the second time 07:31 jonadab: something I was thinking for a startscum thingy was to allow the player to specify an object to start with in the options 07:32 and if an object is specified, re-roll starting inventory 1k times trying to get one 07:32 and then give up 07:32 wand of wishing :) 07:32 oh, that wouldn't work with that rule 07:32 elenmirie: that would just make the game try fruitlessy to re-roll for it and eventually failing 07:32 yes, I see 07:32 unless explorer mode 07:33 sounds too easy tbh 07:33 so it would disallow anything that is normally disallowed from starting equipment 07:33 so for example, you can specify blindfold if you want to do zen 07:33 and thats from somonewho never gets what they think is a good start 07:33 or speed boots in 4k if you want to do that starting valk inventory 07:34 spellbook of identify as priest 07:34 mhm 07:35 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 07:35 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 07:36 [dnh] k2 (Wiz Hum Mal Neu) was given Magicbane, on T:1180 07:36 damn that was fast 07:36 hell yeah 07:41 Oh, K2. I just saw in the backscroll! Unfortunate end, but awesome first run! 07:41 thanks! 07:41 learned a LOT 07:43 that's a funny name for a theme part in corpus christi 07:43 the hurricane alley waterpark 07:48 tempting fate 07:51 Well, I mean, they could've put it in Oklahoma and called it Tornado Alley Trailer Park. 07:52 with red concentric circles painted on all the trailers? 07:52 Heh. 07:52 I was thinking an actual theme park, but make all the buildings look like (house) trailers. 07:53 hm 07:53 All the food vendors, for example. 07:53 And the loading places for the rides. 07:54 heh, the waterpark website has "Experience the surge" on their landing page 07:54 storm surge? 07:54 The entire midway could be lined on both sides with house-trailer mockups. 07:55 Surge may be one of those pools with a wave-maker at one end. 07:55 Those were really popular at water parks in the late eighties and early nineties, may still be a thing. 07:56 [dnh] k2 (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 5075 points, T:3256, killed by a blast of frost 07:56 bah 07:56 Some waterparks also have surfing facilities. Indoor waterparks, for some reason, are particularly apt to have this. 07:57 Perhaps because it takes up less building space than a good waterslide. 07:58 Fits better under a reasonable ceiling. 08:00 -!- Manaflare has joined #hardfought 08:06 so I tried to add something to makedefs 08:06 I am getting mysterious errors despite replicating what something else does 08:06 why am I not surprised 08:10 nice patch idea: invoking rings of hunger to instantly make you hungrier so you can eat more dragon and giant corpses 08:11 thatscursed rings of hunger i tought? 08:11 thought 08:11 yeah 08:11 bug sniper is a person 08:11 confirmed 08:11 a kcikass person 08:11 kickass 08:11 cool, thanks for the complement 08:12 of course. 08:12 now, it's a pattern that whenever I think of a nice patch idea, jonadab makes a similar evil patch idea 08:13 momentarily, we'll see what it is 08:13 if he's still away or if amy arrives soon instead 08:13 doesnt exactly sound bad 08:14 different strokes ya know 08:19 awake I meant 08:20 not sure i get it 08:20 awake, not away 08:22 person100% for sure 08:22 how many hours you on here a day.? (im just impressed) 08:24 I took a nap earlier and that's why I'm able to be awake now 08:26 but you arel like a 96% sniper. kick ass 08:26 praise 08:27 actually, I still have a lot to learn about the repositories and processes 08:29 so whats your accuracy prediction? 08:31 I forgot what my most recent sniper rifle's accuracy was 08:31 I like the weapon generation in borderlands 08:31 lol fuck that 08:32 im trying to get op2 in borderlands 2 rn by myself cause my gf gave up 08:33 idk if its impossible as zero butit sure does suck 08:34 what's op2? 08:34 dlc 08:34 i dont really know hoe to explain it 08:34 verpower 2 08:35 overpower 2 08:35 it goes up to op+8 08:35 which equals regular dmaage plus op+8 08:36 aka 80% dmaage resistance 08:36 damage 08:36 must be a skill 08:37 negative 08:37 you can get tolevel 72 in borderlands 2 witg all the dlc 08:38 but regular enemies will go to 80 08:38 elite enemmies will go to 81 08:38 badasses wilgo to 82. 08:38 yeah, expecially that orc captain in the dungeons and dragons dlc 08:39 never had dragon dlc 08:39 the tiny tina is what youmean 08:40 one second 08:41 the pack i have is the torgue and something else 08:41 (i know. missing the best one but it was 3 $) 08:45 can you reset the area? 08:49 [slex] dolores (Sai Ang Fem Cha), 636 points, T:213, killed by a boulder 08:49 no no 08:49 i play offline with gf 08:50 she no take advice' 08:50 or else i would abuse right before bloodwing 08:57 I'm about to address some old posts so be prepped 08:57 bug_sniper: because pet-stealing is sooooo tedious compared with credit-cloning 08:57 -!- jared555 has quit [Quit: *poof*] 08:57 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:57 FIQ: I never scum 08:58 -!- jared55 has quit [Quit: *poof*] 08:58 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 08:58 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 09:00 jonadab: yes - even with bugs, I guess a 19-streak requires some measure of skill (and more than a little luck!) :D 09:01 hoping to repeat or best that sometime to make sure it wasn't just luck 09:01 BTW - I may be a little drunk but I love you all 09:01 in fact it takes a special kind of luck. 09:01 One might even call it... the Luck of the Grasshopper, or something. 09:13 Grasshopper_: +Grasshopper_ │ yeah, would love to top that 19 streak but might be a bit harder without the container/shop credit bug in raw 3.6.0 on NAO 09:14 I consider that degenerate/scummy :P 09:14 FIQ: fair enough :P 09:14 Moreso than startscumming in fact, but maybe that's just me :) 09:14 but the same bug is available to everyone, and I never scum with E 09:15 I use E myself, but not a lot 09:15 so I don't really care, in the same way that stth doesn't consider pudding farming to be scumming 09:15 actually, since E conduct is tracked 09:15 so :P 09:15 let's see how much I use it 09:15 in my ascs 09:16 none would be respectable 09:18 I investigated 09:18 maybe I use it a bit more than I think :) 09:18 * FIQ blames easy access to ctrl+e 09:18 so in my last 4 ascensions with E-conduct tracking 09:18 I wrote E 151, 5, 245 and 158 times 09:19 (mind you, when I do use E, I use it several times in one go generally -- but yeah, that's not much of an excuse :P) 09:19 hence the wildly different numbers 09:20 wow, impressive. I'm not even sure how to spell the E word ;-> 09:21 shhhh 09:21 oh, and worth mentioning 09:22 I use "Axe" (not sure why I settled on that, probably because of 4k axe changes since 4k is what influenced the change) to E-test wands 09:22 so that isn't part of these counts 09:23 aosdict: haha 09:26 ah, ok. If you just engrave "X" or "x" it doesn't count towards illiteracy either 09:27 I usually engrave "grassy" or sumsuch unless I haven't ID'd teleport yet 09:27 if I haven't ID'd teleport, I'll usuallyh engrave the wand description eg "maple" or "tintin" 09:28 which means if you find that engraving somewhere else on the level, it means that wand is teleport 09:28 I said "means" twice but you know what I mean 09:29 I got that from watching elenmirie play 09:38 i heart Grasshopper 09:38 (backscroll reading) 09:38 * Grasshopper_ hugs K2 09:38 mmmm 09:39 needed that 09:39 12 hrs into a 16 hr dbl-shift 09:39 yeah, reckon I did too 09:40 bloody heck, sounds gruelling 09:40 not really. its slow 09:40 which makes it feel like forever 09:40 yes, slow=bad 09:40 covered a shift for my buddy 09:40 I did extra swimming in morning and lots of bike riding today (in Bangkok), so feeling well-exercised 09:40 nice 09:41 ah nice, so you get a free shift later 09:41 feeling energetic 09:41 i am going to mow my lawn (finally got my lawn tractor back, it was messed up), split some wood, have a bonfire and drink all day 09:41 perfect weather for it 09:41 sounds perfect 09:42 \o/ 09:42 I really need a lawn tractor or ride-on mower for our riverside house 09:42 I hope you are not burning the wood you are splitting today 09:42 depends on how old the wood is 09:42 of course 09:43 properly seasoned wood doesn't matter 09:43 the trunk sections are over a year old 09:43 * aosdict is used to splitting few-months-old wood, which is still plenty wet inside 09:43 aosdict: oh gosh 09:43 plus this is mostly pine, thats easy to split regardless 09:44 i have some birch in the pile, but its seasoned as well 09:44 oh and some oak that i've been saving for the last 2+ yrs 09:44 what tool do you prefer? axe? wedge? hydraulic splitter? 09:45 i have a splitting ax (fiskars) as my primary and a hand operated hydralic for the really big/knotty pieces 09:45 my back isnt in the best of shape, that hydralic has helped out in a couple instances 09:46 this is all strictly for bonfires outside/enjoyment purposes. we dont have a wood fored stove in the house. yet 09:46 *fired 09:47 when I started out, I used a wedge and sledgehammer because that's what I could get off my father. Then I got an axe and never looked back. 09:47 yup 09:47 today i'm going to try wrapping the stump with a chain and then tap tap tap 09:48 so the pieces dont fly all over the place 09:48 I have a wood stove at home. Does pretty well keeping the house heated, some days you don't even need to turn on the boiler 09:48 ^ that 09:48 I keep a splitter in my ute (pickup) for when we go camping, but don't bother with an axe 09:49 we heat using propane/base board heating but we want a wood fired stove as backup 09:49 yeah, propane is convenient 09:49 in my house, the (natural gas) boiler is the backup! :) 09:49 cheap and low emissions 09:49 heh 09:50 our current boiler is about 85-87% effecient. buddy of mine upgraded his system, it's 97% + 09:50 want 09:51 but wont until our current one craps out 09:51 My cousins' farmhouse has a freestanding wood stove, which is even better than what we have 09:51 it just... radiates 09:53 soapstone? 09:55 what? 10:01 is the stove made of soapstone? (known for absorbing heat and radiating it for a long while) 10:02 at least I think that's what K2 meant 10:09 No, it's just metal 10:09 cast iron? 10:09 Maybe they only really stoke it up when company's over. Who knows. 10:09 It might be iron, not sure. 10:10 We usually end up going there only once a year at Christmas, so I haven't seen it in a while. 10:14 [nd] elenmirie (Mon Hum Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:7314 10:40 -!- raisse has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:40 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 10:40 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v theRaisse] by ChanServ 10:41 -!- theRaisse is now known as raisse 11:02 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 11:19 [slex] dolores (Sai Ang Fem Cha), 29558 points, T:7312, killed by a blast of acid 11:36 -!- NeroOneTrueKing_ has joined #hardfought 11:38 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:39 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:46 [slex] zennaris (Pok Mis Mal Neu), 1147 points, T:1843, quit 12:00 K2: I have a rheem 96% efficient dual stage. :) 12:01 and it doesn't really get cold here 12:06 [slex] dolores (Kur Ang Fem Cha), 515 points, T:696, killed by a monster (torchbearer) 12:06 !lastgame 12:06 loli: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dolores/slex/dumplog/1503849597.slex.txt 12:07 dtype ;) 12:08 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 12:10 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:29 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:29 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 12:31 K2: I know a guy who works 24-hour shifts. (Fireman/EMT. Sometimes they get to sleep during the shift. Sometimes not.) 12:44 NeroOneTrueKing_: you around? 12:45 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:50 -!- Manaflare has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:51 -!- Manaflare has joined #hardfought 12:53 jonadab: yup. we had to do those types of shifts on a regular basis when i was deployed (tower guard, EPW guard, or sergeant at arms, etc) 13:18 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:18 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 13:35 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Raisse suddenly disappears!] 13:35 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 13:35 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 13:47 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:56 aosdict: I am now 13:57 !who 13:57 Tarmunora: elenmirie [nd] 14:06 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 14:06 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 14:09 NeroOneTrueKing_: so you remember how you had that point about the combat system proposal, how it would heavily favor getting evasiveness in any way possible because of damage reduction? 14:09 yup 14:10 what about if damage reduction worked based not on the amount you hit by, but on the actual random number it rolled? 14:11 so if it rolls a +5, that may or may not hit depending on bonuses, but if it does damage is reduced at the +5 level 14:11 I'd prefer that, yes 14:12 To clarify, you mean that a +5 (which would be rare, since +0 is the most common on the curve?) would be reduced only slightly, whereas a -5 would be reduced greatly? 14:17 Say a roll of +5 breaks through a fairly well prepared character's evasiveness bonus 20% of the time. 14:18 If that character has only enough AC to reduce damage of hits up to +4, that roll of +5 will deal full damage, instead of the 15-20% it might deal under the current system. 14:21 That sounds good to me 14:23 Evasion and AC will have roughly the same end result -- with good evasion andor AC, most hits are mitigated, but some aren't. 14:23 Only problem is if you know you have a Ev bonus of +5 against a "standard" monster, meaning you're expecting bonuses to come out 5 in your favor so it MUST roll 5 or higher to hit you, you have no incentive to raise your AC if it wouldn't help your damage reduction. 14:24 Guaranteed Damage Reduction based on AC -- a **small** amount 14:24 Because if your AC only reduces damage for hits up to +3.5, anything that hits you will still deal full damage. What's the point of going 3.5 to 4? 14:25 GDR could be flat or percent, as long as it is: 1) noticable in the case you describe and 2) still minor in the grand scheme of things 14:27 like, 1% per 2-3 points of AC small. 14:27 Also, some things should have specific bonuses for/against EV/AC 14:28 Evasion has the upside that a 'mitigated' hit deals no damage whatsoever (no bleedthrough damage), so I think that a specific bonus to AC is reasonable as well. 14:28 Hmm, but because literally everything in the code is an int, a tiny damage reduction amount will hardly ever do anything. 14:29 So I think a few percent does not meet your 1) condition. 14:31 I'm thinking players would get up to 20% or so? 14:32 Yeah, endgame, with complete tank armor. Not much in the early game. 14:35 Or maybe it should be proportional? A successful hit deals 50% of reduced damage based on the natural roll and 50% of damage based on the amount it hit by? 14:35 But that seems too complicated. 14:36 Ugh 14:37 On the other hand, damage reduction in vanilla doesn't kick in until you're either below 0 or below -10, I can't remember which. 14:38 But, in vanilla, armor also directly improves what Ev would be there. 14:38 below zero, I believe 14:38 AC below zero, i.e., Def above 10. 14:44 okay, back to GDR 14:46 Flat damage reduction: -1 damage per hit per 10 AC? 14:47 Since many monsters have small rolls (ie 1d3) this will be noticable early 14:49 That has the interesting effect of not being that useful in the endgame. 14:50 endgame, -4 or -5 damage per hit would be okay I think 14:50 Not *huge* but it would add up 14:51 How about, take 10% per point of AC. If you end up with 110%, that reduces 1 point and has a 10% chance to reduce another. 14:51 23 AC - reduces 2 points and has a 30% chance to reduce another. 14:51 That's even better, yes! 14:52 And this happens regardless of Ev. 14:53 [dnh] Tarmunora (Ana Dro Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2349 14:53 Yup. Minimum damage per attack that hits (ie EV did not dodge the hit) is still 1 15:01 Which, I think, is how damage reduction works in vanilla, yes? 15:02 Yes, but the amount reduced is between 0 and -1*(your AC) 15:02 which gets to be ridiculous. 15:03 Yes, you get to about -80AC, and barely anything can damage you by normal hitpoint-reducing means. 15:08 -80 is nigh-impossible without eating rings of protection anyway. 15:08 [fh] hothraxxa (Arc Hum Fem Neu) killed the ghost of Jean-Regis, the former Aspirant, on T:1579 15:08 [fh] hothraxxa (Arc Hum Fem Neu) killed the ghost of Jean-Regis, the former Aspirant, on T:1579 15:09 interesting. i'm in replay mode 15:09 I was about to say. hothraxxa kills Jean-Regis a lot 15:09 replay mode shouldn't be logged but i don't know how easy that would be to prevent 15:10 uh 15:10 yeah it shouldn't 15:10 jonadab: this probably affects you 15:10 aosdict: Yes, that was hyperbole. 15:10 too 15:10 Oh, man, the watch/replay code. 15:11 Shoot me now. 15:11 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has joined #hardfought 15:11 nah don't worry 15:11 it's an easy fix 15:11 I think 15:12 I can't debug this 15:12 -!- Manaflare has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12 !tell K2 pushed a fix 15:12 Will do, FIQ! 15:12 jonadab: e60478e 15:13 -!- NeroOneTrueKing_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:14 [slex] zennaris (Bul Ogr Mal Neu) killed Tomoka Kayahara, on T:993 15:14 [slex] dolores (Erd Ang Fem Cha), 989 points, T:628, killed by a blast of lightning 15:14 [slex] dolores (Erd Ang Fem Cha), 48 points, T:31, killed by an orcish spear 15:16 Ah. In retrospect, that does seem obvious. 15:18 [slex] dolores (Erd Ang Fem Cha), 7 points, T:194, killed by a monster (river moccasin) 15:19 [slex] dolores (Erd Ang Fem Cha), 0 points, T:33, killed by a monster (troll) 15:30 -!- NeroOneTrueKing_ has joined #hardfought 15:33 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:56 [slex] dolores (Erd Ang Fem Cha), 6493 points, T:1684, killed by a partisan 15:58 [dnh] Tarmunora (Ana Dro Fem Cha), 25978 points, T:4943, killed by a bolt of lightning 16:04 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:05 -!- Menche_ has joined #hardfought 16:06 -!- Menche has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 16:07 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 16:13 -!- Menche_ is now known as Menche 16:35 nice patch idea: applying amulets of strangulation onto difficult monsters to kill them in 5 turns 16:36 now, where's jonadab and LarienTelrunya to turn those nice patch ideas into evil patch ideas 16:36 heh, amulets of strangulation are evil enough IMHO ;) 16:39 nice patch idea: magnetic traps that, while sucking away your metal items from your inventory, also suck away the loadstones 16:39 slex's magnet trap only attracts iron objects specifically :D 16:40 you'd think lodestones are made of iron 16:40 loadstones, while supposedly magnetic, still count as "stone" and are thus unaffected 16:41 bug_sniper: your EPI: monsters can pick up and apply amulets of strangulation onto you, and they may receive one as a miscellaneous item 16:42 there we are, nice 16:43 and I guess I'll make my own epi for loadstones: they attact other loadstones into your pack 16:47 EPI: loadstones are iron, and they attract any iron item from up to 4 squares away into your inventory, where it gets stuck to the loadstone. You can't ever get stuff unstuck from the loadstone. 16:48 actually, I wonder 16:49 nice patch idea: applying heat to loadstones should demagnetize them and turn them into ordinary gray stones 16:49 I'm not sure if that happens with lodestones in real life, might need a geologist's help for that answer 16:50 what's an "ordinary" gray stone? flint? 16:51 yeah 16:53 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 17:07 hmm 17:26 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:26 the way I've set stuff up, there's no incentive for monks or wizards to *ever* wear shields 17:26 not sure I want that 17:30 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:35 YASI: the protection spell's effectiveness is based on how your hands are used: open offhand > shield offhand > 2weapon == 2handed. Becomes a 'spectral shield' if you have an open offhand. 17:36 -!- Grasshopper_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:36 you know, that could fit right into my proposal... 17:37 yani: and todo: protection doesn't dissipate over time. You do get a warning, but it goes away all at once. 17:38 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 17:38 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 17:38 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has joined #hardfought 17:41 -!- NeroOneTrueKing_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:42 -!- NeroOneTrueKing_ has joined #hardfought 17:42 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:42 also, armor skill might be too powerful. I think there's little reason you don't want to level armor skill as high as it will go. 17:43 it shouldn't reduce EV penalties as much as it currently does 17:44 (or, as much as it did when I last checked) 17:44 but I have to balance that against making the Ev penalties relevant. 17:45 It is going to be hard for a starting wizard to pick up a crystal plate mail and move around easily in it. 17:47 My thinking is that even a (knight/barbarian/tank) shouldn't have an EV penalty for heavy armor equal to a (wizard/healer/squish)'s penalty for light armor; it should be more 17:48 So you would have the penalties stretched out a bit, but scaled down? 17:49 I'm thinking that the EV portion is removed from the armor skill entirely. The other penalties (weight, etc) remain, but make it clear that there is a tradeoff between EV and AC. 17:50 If you've committed to wearing heavy armor, then improving your armor skill effectively improves your EV. :/ 17:52 Possibly, you get bonus AC based on the EV penalty of the armor and your skill. Ex) a moderate penalty (-2 EV) armor with skilled+ skill gives +2 AC 17:52 I dunno, this was like thought number 2 that led to the proposal. Thought number 1 was "hey what if we broke up AC and evasiveness?" 17:53 Sorry, I mean keep evasiveness and AC 17:53 It seems at least fair that heavy armor should make you easy to hit. The tradeoff is that you're wearing nice heavy armor. 17:56 How about a dodging skill? 17:57 Possibly, armor gives higher AC than it does now, and Ev penalties are reduced, but skill doesn't help remove the Ev penalty. 17:57 I was thinking about a dodging skill... 17:57 The player can't actually do much to deliberately increase Ev. Wear a shield, get lucky, and buy protection are the only ways. 17:58 And polyself I guess. 17:59 I think a dodging skill might be OP combined with everything else, though. 18:04 Does everyone have intrinsic EV such that an EV penalty from armor doesn't create a negative number? 18:05 No, an ordinary human has zero EV. 18:05 so we're okay with someone having negative EV 18:06 Starting characters' Ev should be all around zero 18:06 with a couple exceptions (roles that start with shields) 18:06 and yes, a negative defender bonus is certainly possible 18:08 Hrm, maybe remove armor skill entirely. 18:09 Even if it had no effect on Ev, the weight reduction will make people want to level it as high as possible. 18:10 Part of having armor skill is that it provides another place to put skill points 18:11 Even a mediocre effect (like simply granting extra AC for heavy armors) would be used by players 18:12 To keep people from maxing it thoughtlessly, it could only give its high-skill bonuses for heavy enough armors; ex) no difference between Basic and Expert if you are wearing leather armor. 18:12 Weight reduction is fine, upon reflection, but it should start at 1 for Unskilled and probably go 5/6, 4/6, 3/6 or 6/7, 5/7, 4/7 or even 7/8, 6/8, 5/8 instead of all the way down to 1/3 18:13 Agreed 18:16 -!- Jonathanhanes has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:16 Still want heavy armor to confer an Ev penalty though. 18:20 Absolutely 18:21 Heavy vs Light armor is somewhere else the player can choose how much EV they have, other than "do I want to wear a shield?" 18:22 But it can't be too high, because then nobody will wear it, and it can't be too small of a range, because then it isn't relevant 18:25 -0 (robe) to -3 (plate)? 18:26 and put *DSM at -2? 18:27 I'm not married to any of these numbers; but I like to get some ideas out there. 18:28 DSM is currently outside the system where I don't have to worry about it. I may slice the M off DSM, actually. 18:30 So you think the scale should just be squashed slightly? (It's 0 to -4 right now) 18:31 I think a little bit. -4 is a pretty hefty penalty under this system, right? 18:32 Not as much as it was. I just doubled the bonus amounts. 18:33 well, not just 18:33 recently 18:33 oh okay then 18:33 -4 is fine 18:33 a -4 penalty would be canceled out by your opponent having fumbling 18:34 a -4 penalty would also be canceled out if you had a speed of 24 (which you don't, but whatever) 18:35 [fh] hothraxxa (Arc Hum Fem Neu), 39270 points, T:3084, killed by a blast of fire 18:45 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9] 18:46 I'm off to eat 18:46 YUM YUM 19:43 !ping 19:43 Grasshopper: Pong! 19:48 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has joined #hardfought 19:51 -!- NeroOneTrueKing_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:16 -!- Jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 20:18 hi 20:18 Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought 20:18 K2: Message from FIQ at 2017-08-27 15:12 EDT: pushed a fix 20:19 FIQhack updated 20:21 [dnh] Tarmunora (Ana Dro Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1229 20:49 evil patch idea: pickaxes that you can't drop or put away, keeping you from entering shops until you uncurse them 21:01 they exist 21:01 they're called cursed pickaxes 21:02 I think he means like loadstones? 21:02 they even prevent you from wielding a different weapon! 21:08 [slex] dolores (Nec Ang Fem Cha), 4146 points, T:2493, died of exhaustion 21:09 yeah, I was thinking of pickaxe loadstones 21:40 Ugh. I need to figure out how to handle shield enchantment. 21:41 Last time I just threw up my hands and said enchantment doesn't count at all. That _works_ well enough, but it's horribly unintuitive. 21:43 YASI: armor enchantment is multiplicative, ie, a +4 is twice as effective (for AC/EV) as a +0 . Each point increase effectiveness by 1/4. 21:43 In Fourk, shield enchantment (if non-negative) gets multiplied by shield skill, and then the result is divided by a constant factor, to determine how much it contributes to your AC. With Ev, you might want a different constant factor, but the idea still seems sound. 21:43 All rounded down, of course. 21:44 Eg) a +5 pair of leather gloves gives 2 AC. 21:44 (Negatively enchanted shields ignore your skill, so that higher skill isn't worse.) 21:44 I think the Fourk way is a tad complicated. 21:46 But then again I was just reminding myself of how this is the combat system and it's the most complicated part of nethack by design. 21:47 I have a few control points: a priest starting with a +0 shield should probably get 1 Ev, a character using a shield poorly (to train it, perhaps) should expect 0, and a late game character shouldn't get more than 4. 21:50 The problem with enchantment is that Ev *is* more valuable than AC. 21:51 [ ((skill + 1) / (2)) * (shield EV) * ((enchant) / (4)) ] / (2) 21:51 NeroOneTrueKing: I think the damage reduction we talked about earlier is probably better off as 1 point every 5 AC. 21:52 Non-sequitur, of course. 21:52 er oops 21:52 [ ((skill + 1) / (2)) * (shield EV) * (1 + (enchant) / (4)) ] / (2), for enchant >=0 21:57 So, unskilled user with a +0 small shield gets +0.125. 21:57 Expert user with a +5 large shield gets +3.75. 21:58 Starting Priest gets +0.375. 21:58 er, +0.1875 21:59 hmm 21:59 Starting Valk gets +0.75. 21:59 (assuming skill in your formula is the raw value) 22:00 Note that Expert user with a +5 _small_ shield gets only +1.875, half of a large shield's. 22:00 small shield EV = 1 22:00 Of course, the 1 and 2 shield EVs aren't fixed, I guess. 22:00 int(unskilled) = 0 22:01 I'm calculating ( 1/2 * 1 * 1) / 2 = 1/4 22:01 oh, I was assuming unskilled = 1 since that's what it is in the code 22:01 it is? oops 22:01 restricted = 0 in the code 22:02 what scenario is that calculation from? unskilled +0 small shield? 22:02 -!- firemonkey has joined #hardfought 22:02 yes 22:02 oh, order of operations. 1+(enchant/4), not (1+enchant)/4. oops 22:03 I don't see a linear way to make a Basic skill +0 small shield give a whopping 1 EV while a +5 expert large shield give 4 EV, however. 22:03 Without, as you said, saying enchantment does nothing. 22:04 It works if you ignore enchantment, but yes, I can see the case for basic +0 small being less than 1. 22:04 so your formula if implemented would actually be (skill / 2) * ... . Keeping that in mind: 22:06 (Sorry to keep jumping around) re damage reduction: this is in addition to or instead of using the original roll for determining how armor-piercing an attack is? For reference, 10 dmg off of every attack is too much, as it would make a 3d10 attack average out at 6.8 damage. 22:06 Starting Priest gets +1/2. Starting Valk gets +7/4. 22:07 NeroOneTrueKing: this is a replacement. Beating the to-hit threshold is all that matters for scoring a hit, AC is all that matters for reducing the resulting damage. 22:07 It no longer matters by how much you beat the threshold. 22:08 So many ideas being proposed, it's hard to keep track of which is the current one! 22:08 Nah, it's just one big idea. :0 22:08 :) 22:09 Argh, starting Valk gets +7/8 22:09 As I recall, there was also the "remember the bonus from the gauss curve? Use that (without the to-hit and EV factors) to figure out how armor-piercing the attack is" 22:09 Right, I scrapped that earlier today based on our discussion 22:10 Expert +5 large shield gets +5 Ev. 22:10 Expert +5 small shield gets +2.5 Ev. 22:11 This speaks to the fact that in this formula, the shield base values are too far apart. But they can be tweaked without affecting anything else. 22:12 how about we double all evasion numbers again so we can get a better range of shield EVs? :P 22:12 and get rid of those pesky decimal points 22:12 Easier just to adjust these numbers and the denominator of it all :) 22:13 Seriously, there are so few floats in the code that I wonder whether some ancient compiler doesn't support them, or something. 22:14 I like how few floats there are. Ints are nice and round. 22:15 Yeah, well part of the problem with the current to-hit formula is that it's based on an integer d20 22:17 Anyway, you can't escape floats because you can't really generate a Gaussian random number without them 22:17 And the doubling was easier the first time because so many things were *.5 22:18 This shield size thing would have interesting implications in dnethack 22:19 Want to wish for a tiny dragonscale shield? Are you sure? It has a terrible base defense value. 22:22 So, using this formula, if we boosted the shield base defense values to, say, 10 and 15, and the denominator is now 20, the outcomes for small shields are the same, and the outcomes for large shields are cut to 75% of what they were previously. So Expert +5 large shield is once again +3.75. 22:25 -!- greqrg has quit [Quit: Disconnected] 22:25 Sounds like what you want 22:26 Need to look at the implications of changing enchantment. 22:28 A +0 shield starts at a 1 multiplier for enchantment. If a player quickly enchants it up to +5, that changes the multiplier to 9/4, more than doubling its effectiveness. Not sure if this is too much of a power spike. 22:32 Of course, you can't guarantee getting it to +5 easily. 22:34 well 22:34 season finale of game of thrones was good 22:35 no spoilers 22:35 please :) 22:35 i'm not 22:35 but it was goooooood ;) 22:36 I'm part of the (dwindling) crowd who actually doesn't care about GoT and is patiently waiting for the Winds of Winter to come out 22:37 so, it's good to know that after a few days I won't have to worry about people talking about the show for another ten months 22:40 NeroOneTrueKing: the nice thing about scaling the shield base defense up is that individual shields can be tweaked more finely. 22:41 heh 22:41 one more season then its done 22:41 Maybe the shield of reflection is actually not that great at defending, since stuff tends to slide over the edge of the shield and hit you. So maybe its base defense is 7, not 10. 22:42 Lot more granularity than small = 1, large = 2. 22:43 without having to involve floats ;) 22:43 :) 22:50 'night all. Have fun! 22:57 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:02 FIQ: do monsters have a luck stat in fiqhack? 23:04 aosdict: in mon_makewish: "TODO: monster luck" 23:04 ah 23:05 aosdict: I've considered nerfing luck in general or make it much harder to boost 23:06 things like, only be able to give up to +3 intrinsic luck with altars, and +1 per unicorn with an identified valuable gem 23:06 I'd support that. Luck is one component of the midgame power spoke. 23:07 spike* 23:07 so that it can still be maxed if player wants 23:07 but it is much harder to do so 23:07 The offering is consumed in a burst of flame! A bicycle wheel appears at your feet! e - the Midgame Power Spoke. 23:08 lol 23:08 I think I do like that better than Un, which requires luck _management_ 23:09 what does un do 23:09 oh, I have the asc run coming up? better go back to my altar and make up for my slowly timing out luck and evil eye luck reductions. 23:09 oh 23:09 yeah dnethack has that too 23:10 not a fan of the concept, but it doesn't really matter in dnethack due to how ridiculous values in it is 23:11 This seems in line with what I was planning to do to protection (make it really expensive so you have to loot Ludios or Gehennom to get the last couple of points) 23:12 just increase the price progressively 23:12 make the 1st one cost whatever the current cost is 23:12 then x2, x3, etc 23:12 yes, price dependent on current number of prot points 23:12 perhaps also count the highest level reached 23:13 to prevent drain for gain silliness 23:13 does the game already keep track of that? not sure 23:13 it does, yes 23:13 oh, actually 23:13 I was thinking of disassociating it from XL anyway, but sure 23:13 vanilla can manipulate this 23:14 blessed full healing only restores up to half restored levels rounded up 23:14 in vanilla 23:14 this is solved by decreasing your "highest reached level" when a level is restored this way 23:14 so yeah 23:14 perhaps go with your original plan 23:15 Were you saying with the luck thing that an altar can get your base luck no higher than +3, or each altar can give +3? 23:24 The first is interesting, but I think it would just lead to players reverse genociding unicorns all over the place to throw gems at them. 23:24 Well, that's a problem you have to address if you're going to make luck hard to get anyway. 23:27 aosdict: I mean you can't go above +3 with altars 23:28 If player wants to revgeno, that is their choice 23:28 I will not prevent them 23:28 It is balanced that way IMO 23:28 Geno isn't that cheap, and a single scroll will not get you all the way anyway 23:29 I think it doesn't really fall into my personal definition of balance. 23:29 If things are harder to get, it means players ned to spend more resources on it 23:29 Resources they might otherwise want to spell on stuff like enchant weapon or armor 23:29 which is usually to say "if I were writing the wiki strategy guide for this, would I tell the player it's always worth it to do this?" 23:30 is geno any rarer in fiqhack or harder to get than in vanilla? 23:31 They're actually *easier* to get in fiqhack, which is kind of an oversight but not something I consider important enough to address (fiqhack has other more pressing issues IMO) 23:31 because in fiqhack, geno can be generated as part of monster inventory 23:31 In any case, I think this is a situation where I would tell players, yes, it is worth it to blow a lot of marker charges on one reverse genocide, because you really do want luck that much. 23:31 One is likely not enough 23:31 You will probably need 2 23:32 hell, you'll need 3 if you don't have altars to sac on 23:32 you also need an assortment of identified valuable gems 23:32 Same thing. It's worth it to do as many reverse genos as you possibly can. 23:33 it is not 23:33 enchant weapn is more powerful 23:33 you want +7 over max luck 23:33 or +6 23:33 but not less than hthat 23:33 that assumes you already have a weapon you're happy carrying around at +7 for a while, which may not be the case. 23:34 Luck, on the other hand, is good for attack and defense, and doesn't depend on your gear. 23:34 fwiw I Almost never bother maxing out my luck because doing so is generally tedious unless I find a coaliigned unicorn 23:35 and I do fine anyway 23:35 by far the biggest part of to-hit/etc boosts comes from XL 23:35 you don't need +40 to-hit, you can do with just +27