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07:37 <LarienTelrunya> K2: haha so I got petrified by that bitch Medusa? :P
07:51 <K2> you did ;)
07:55 <LarienTelrunya> but you ascended! congratulations! :)
07:57 <K2> thanks!
08:00 <aosdict> oh you ascended K2? congrats!
08:00 <K2> thanks aosdict
08:14 <jonadab> EPI: generalized monster mutations.  Any monster can be generated as "winged" (flying), "vampiric" (heals when it hits you; attacks drain levels), "disease-ridden" (attacks cause fatal illness), "frenzied" (has double its usual speed), "juggernaut" (has quadruple its usual hitpoints, attacks do double damage), "stoneskin" (non-instakill attacks don't harm it; immune to petrification), etc.  These are n
08:14 <jonadab> ot mutually exclusive, of course: a monster can get more than one.
08:15 <LarienTelrunya> hi jonadab! You should play slex more often, because that exact concept is already in slex, named "monster egotypes". Yes, monsters can have several at once. And they can quaff potions of mutation to get more. :)
08:17 <FIQ> K2: gz!
08:17 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: This does not make me want to play slex more often.
09:04 <Tangles> First FIQhack monk ascension! YUGE!! :D
09:04 <Beholder> Tangles: Message from FIQ at 2017-08-11 21:34 EDT: did you see the link I gave earlier with curses in 3.6?
09:06 <Tangles> FIQ: No. I was out all day and have not looked at the backscroll yet.
09:16 <FIQ> ah
09:17 <FIQ> LarienTelrunya: fiqhack object pile thingy is buggy :(
09:17 <LarienTelrunya> oh no!
09:17 <FIQ> because ais code works in mysterious ways and generally not the way you want it to work
09:18 <FIQ> the object pile stuff itself works fine
09:18 <FIQ> but the blue background thingy is.. weird
09:18 <LarienTelrunya> but you fixed the crash, right?
09:18 <FIQ> jonadab: try to mess with ais code and you will have a bad day
09:18 <FIQ> LarienTelrunya: oh I fixed the crash yeah, the object pile stuff itself works just fine
09:19 <FIQ> just... the game doesn't really seem to care to do the blue background stuff
09:19 <FIQ> doing it more when it feels like
09:19 <LarienTelrunya> so there are piles that just don't get highlighted?
09:19 <FIQ> pretty much
09:19 <FIQ> the game will know they are piles
09:20 <FIQ> if you farlook, you get "on other objects"
09:20 <FIQ> which is the pile identifier
09:20 <FIQ> but blue background doesn't work
09:20 <LarienTelrunya> should be easy to hijack the display code to actually highlight it then?
09:20 <FIQ> properly
09:20 <FIQ> easy... yeah, right
09:21 <FIQ> LarienTelrunya: ais rewrote the display handler
09:21 <LarienTelrunya> oh, so the original hilite patch will not work I guess
09:21 <FIQ> also the issue is bizarre
09:21 <FIQ> the original hilite patch has its own issues
09:22 <FIQ> but they're mostly information leak-related
09:22 <FIQ> otherwise it works fine
09:22 <FIQ> the original patch will draw pile branding whenever there is an object pile on the tile
09:22 <FIQ> it doesn't care about player memory whatsoever
09:23 <FIQ> so if a monster grabs one of a 2-size pile
09:23 <FIQ> it will disappear
09:23 <FIQ> even if out of player's view
09:23 <FIQ> etc
09:23 <LarienTelrunya> yeah, slex has that issue too
09:23 <FIQ> fiqhack piles work much better in this regard
09:23 <FIQ> the thing that doesn't work is the pile blue background display
09:23 <FIQ> which is unrelated to pile memory
09:24 <jonadab> FIQ: The UI code is a maze of twisty little functions, all confusing, yes.
09:24 <FIQ> the weird thing is
09:24 <FIQ> you can see a blue-background object pile just fine when it comes in view
09:24 <FIQ> but try to mess with it in any way
09:24 <FIQ> including *stepping onto it*
09:24 <FIQ> will remove the highlight
09:25 <FIQ> (but the pile is still recognized as an object pile, it's just the display code going haywire)
09:25 <jonadab> Does the display work off a cached map-memory thing?
09:26 <FIQ> yes
09:26 <FIQ> jonadab: but the pile branding shouldn't be touched at all
09:26 <FIQ> unless the entire thing is re-updated
09:27 <FIQ> which shouldn't be an issue
09:27 <FIQ> since it's still an object pile
09:27 <jonadab> "shouldn't"
09:27 <FIQ> well
09:27 <FIQ> why would the pile branding randomly be unset
09:27 <FIQ> when the tile is still identified as an object pile
09:27 <FIQ> I have no code that does this
09:27 <jonadab> Probably something is recalculating the player's memory of the position.
09:28 <jonadab> There may even be a reason.
09:29 <jonadab> You'd _think_ it would go through the same codepath... but this is NetHack, so who knows.
09:30 <FIQ> the only thing I can think of
09:30 <FIQ> is branding being zeroed for some reason
09:30 <FIQ> but this should affect things other than object pile status
09:30 <FIQ> also stepped, locked, unlocked, trapped, untrapped, seen (!), lit, templit
09:30 <aosdict> yasi: you can apply Fire Brand to a tame rothe to brand it with your cattle mark
09:32 <FIQ> ok let's see what happens if I set pile status unconditionally
09:35 <FIQ> jonadab: hmm ok so I think I see the issue
09:35 <FIQ> if I make object pile status override every other branding
09:35 <FIQ> stuff works
09:35 <FIQ> so I assume what happens is that other brandings are overriding it
09:41 <FIQ> !tell K2 pushed a fix to buggy object pile branding
09:41 <Beholder> Will do, FIQ!
09:44 <FIQ> now there is one issue left that I know of
09:44 <FIQ> the tileset engine needs better priorities
10:07 <K2> FIQhack updated
10:07 <Beholder> K2: Message from FIQ at 2017-08-12 09:41 EDT: pushed a fix to buggy object pile branding
10:09 <jonadab> FIQ: It ought to be possible to have more than one branding on a tile.  Granted, not all tilesets would be able to display them all.  But graphical ones potentially could display more than one, using transparent overlays.
10:10 <FIQ> tell that to ais
10:10 <jonadab> Pet on an object pile on stairs, for instance, should all be representable at once in a sufficiently advanced graphical tileset.
10:10 <jonadab> Heh, yeah.
10:11 <FIQ> one issue atm is that object pile branding overrides up/downstairs
10:11 <FIQ> because these don't actually have any branding
10:11 <FIQ> it just relies on the tile
10:11 <FIQ> special casing would be silly so I'll ask ais about it once he shows up
10:12 <FIQ> jonadab: btw, the engine will send branding data as a bitfield
10:12 <FIQ> the curses interface is what then throws away this
10:17 <jonadab> Ah.
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11:07 <FIQ> K2: so was fh too easy?
11:07 <K2> it was easier than my last sporkhack game
11:07 <K2> easier than most of my grunthack games also
11:08 <FIQ> compared to vanilla NH3 and NH4
11:08 <K2> astral wasnt so bad, i did purple rain and charmed everything else
11:08 <FIQ> purple rain works?
11:08 <K2> hah yeah
11:08 <FIQ> well
11:08 <K2> i didnt even have to use half of my cursed geno scrolls
11:08 <FIQ> monsters attack your pets w/o provocation in fiqhack
11:09 <K2> burrrrrp burrrrrp
11:09 <K2> burpburpburpburp
11:09 <FIQ> oik
11:09 <FIQ> *ok
11:09 <K2> burp
11:09 <aosdict> You hear several burping sounds.
11:09 <FIQ> I guess charming a bunch helps
11:09 <K2> thats true any variant
11:09 <FIQ> K2: but is it easier than vanilla?
11:10 <K2> no
11:10 <FIQ> ok good
11:10 <K2> nothing is easier than vanilla
11:10 <FIQ> dynahack arguably is
11:10 <aosdict> nethack 4 is
11:10 <K2> vanilla (nh3 and nh4) is your baseline
11:10 <K2> i am playing dynahack right now
11:10 <FIQ> I think several people have claimed dyna to be easier than 3.4.3
11:10 <K2> it is NOT easier than vanilla
11:10 <jonadab> Hmm.  If there were an amulet of monster detection, that granted extrinsic monster detection while equipped, A) would that be unbalanced, and B) would it be real competition for reflection and life saving?
11:10 <FIQ> ok :)
11:10 <FIQ> jonadab: A: no
11:11 <FIQ> B: unsure
11:11 <aosdict> if anyone has an argument that nh4 is harder than vanilla, I'd like to hear it
11:11 <FIQ> but it would make amulet of ESP obsolete
11:11 <K2> there's some grunthack-like bits in dynahack
11:11 <K2> prob where grunt got his ideas from
11:11 <jonadab> FIQ: Oh, good point.
11:11 <FIQ> maybe replace amulet of ESP with amulet of monster detection?
11:12 <jonadab> Yeah, trying to decide if that's a good idea.
11:12 <bug_sniper> what's better? dynahack or grunthack?
11:12 <jonadab> I think I'll put it down on my TODO list under "untriaged".
11:12 <jonadab> bug_sniper: Depends what you want.
11:12 <jonadab> GruntHack is more hardcore.
11:12 <K2> i wouldnt call any variants better than others
11:13 <bug_sniper> I want more artifacts and more intem properties
11:13 <K2> they're just different
11:13 <bug_sniper> *item
11:13 <FIQ> play slex then
11:13 <FIQ> it has a lot of properties and artifacts ;)
11:13 <jonadab> bug_sniper: Do you want all-dragonhide gear?
11:14 <bug_sniper> yeah, I'm thinking of doing that
11:14 <FIQ> dyna technically has more artifacts, but not a lot
11:14 <FIQ> grunt has the same arti amount as vanilla but has crazy object material potential
11:14 <FIQ> fiqhack is just vanilla arti-wise but has more object properties than either
11:14 <FIQ> slex has most of both
11:14 <jonadab> ^ silver thirsty long sword, etc.
11:14 <K2> so i have my first ever wand of wishing in dynahack
11:15 <K2> if i remember correctly you cant wish for properties on existing magic items
11:15 <FIQ> K2: you can wish for properties on magic items, but only "magical"
11:15 <FIQ> so it is randomized
11:15 <FIQ> (and can becomeo hunger/etc)
11:15 <jonadab> So you can't _usefully_ wish for properties on magic items.
11:15 <K2> i see
11:15 <FIQ> depends
11:15 <FIQ> I'd totally take the gamble
11:15 <FIQ> for the potential of reflection/etc
11:15 <K2> so i could wish for a magical helm of brilliance and wind up with the property being hunger
11:15 <jonadab> If wishing for armor anyway?
11:16 <FIQ> jonadab: yeah
11:16 <FIQ> K2: yes
11:16 <FIQ> it can also be drain resistance ;)
11:16 <jonadab> K2: Yes, but it could also end up being fire resistance.
11:16 <jonadab> You know you want a helm of brilliance and fire resistance.
11:16 <FIQ> oh right
11:16 <FIQ> in dynahack, extrinsic properties are more useful
11:16 <jonadab> Oh, are they?
11:16 <FIQ> like in fiqhack it prevents item destruction, but more than that
11:16 <jonadab> I didn't know that.
11:16 <K2> yeah i am noticing that
11:16 <FIQ> intrinsic fire res isn't foolproof
11:16 <jonadab> Does it do the dnethack thing?
11:16 <jonadab> Ah.
11:16 <LarienTelrunya> bug_sniper: play grunthack! *bundlebundlebundle* :)
11:16 <jonadab> I see.
11:17 <FIQ> LarienTelrunya: ;o
11:17 <FIQ> I think you might have slipped when writing
11:17 <LarienTelrunya> why?
11:17 <FIQ> you meant to type "slex"
11:17 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: play SporkHack and go for pacifist conducxt.
11:17 <K2> does dynahack have object materials like grunt?
11:17 <LarienTelrunya> jonadab: sporkhack is terrible, I'd much rather play grunt if I had to choose between the two
11:17 <FIQ> K2: no
11:17 <K2> i love sporkhack
11:18 <jonadab> SporkHack is _interesting_.  Variant developers should play it at least a little.
11:18 <jonadab> Not saying they should implement _everything_ it does.
11:18 <FIQ> I've seen spork
11:18 <FIQ> Generally not a fan of its changes
11:18 <K2> especially now that we've fixed some bugs and added some functionality
11:18 <jonadab> I've seen the Spork early game mostly.
11:18 <FIQ> I don't really like removing "exploits"
11:18 <jonadab> And it gets a lot of things wrong.
11:19 <aosdict> exploits?
11:19 <jonadab> But it's interesting nonetheless.  Instructive, I think.
11:19 <FIQ> I prefer balancing other actions you can do as a player to compensate
11:19 <FIQ> and buff enemies
11:19 <jonadab> aosdict: SporkHack was intended for advanced players, I think.
11:19 <K2> yup
11:19 <K2> its more difficult than grunthack imo
11:19 <aosdict> but it was announced as not making the game any harder for new players
11:19 <K2> astral is no joke
11:19 <FIQ> aosdict: that is not true
11:19 <aosdict> or at least the wiki says that
11:19 <FIQ> I don't understand variant people who say that
11:19 <LarienTelrunya> K2: you should fix sporkhack's "saving and reloading the game re-initializes the random turn counts at which monster respawn speeds up" error ;)
11:20 <jonadab> aosdict: It means _unspoiled_ new players.
11:20 <FIQ> it's usually an euphenism for "we removed some exploits"
11:20 <K2> i think lorimer was mind fucking everybody
11:20 <FIQ> (generally Elbereth, but usually other things too)
11:20 <FIQ> lorimer decided that energy regeneration was too powerful
11:20 <jonadab> FIQ: Elbereth, pudding farming, throne farming, etc.
11:20 <FIQ> that's insane IMO, but w/e :P
11:21 <FIQ> jonadab: right
11:21 <jonadab> Oh, yes, eregen is totally OP, wizards should definitely have to use their staff to kill everything, none of that casting spells all the time nonsense.
11:21 <jonadab> EPI: ^
11:22 <FIQ> jonadab: spork makes no attempt (IIRC) to buff energy regen
11:22 <FIQ> but nerfs eregen (the property) heavily
11:22 <K2> hmm dynahack has the random dragon bits like unnethack
11:22 <K2> but it also has chromatic dragons
11:22 <FIQ> K2: you know how nethack4 is basically nitrohack + nethack?
11:22 <FIQ> *nethack 3.4.3
11:22 <K2> yeah
11:23 <FIQ> dynahack is nitrohack + unnethack 4
11:23 <K2> yeah
11:23 <K2> i can see that
11:23 <jonadab> It does have some original changes as well.
11:23 <FIQ> dyna is to nethack4 as un 4 is to 3.4.3
11:23 <jonadab> But yes, it's got a LOT of Un in it.
11:23 <FIQ> jonadab: object properties
11:23 <K2> so which was first, dynahack or unnethack? or were they pulling bits from each other over time?
11:23 <FIQ> magic chests
11:23 <FIQ> K2: basically
11:23 <jonadab> K2: Un is MUCH older than Dyna.
11:24 <FIQ> tungtn spent a lot of time merging un into nitro to create dyna
11:24 <FIQ> and when he was almost done
11:24 <jonadab> I think Un is just slightly younger than Spork?
11:24 <FIQ> unnethack 5 was released
11:24 <K2> ah
11:24 <FIQ> and then he pretty much gave up at ever getting dyna to a state where it has all of unnethack in it + nitrohack's UI
11:25 <jonadab> (But Un is still active, or at least was recently, unlike most other variants of that era.)
11:25 <K2> ok
11:25 <K2> i have three wishes to burn. hmm
11:25 <FIQ> one issue dyna saw I think
11:25 <FIQ> is that tungtn didn'
11:25 <FIQ> t seem to realize the impact online play has
11:25 <FIQ> dynahack basically didn't have a server hosting it at all
11:26 <FIQ> this aggravated me a bunch because it sounded like a really cool variant, and others
11:26 <jonadab> FIQ: Wasn't Dyna pretty well EOL by the time you came along?
11:26 <FIQ> tungtn meanwhile seemed to lose motivation because basically nobody played the variant, so why bother dealing with nitrohack shit
11:26 <FIQ> gee I wonder why
11:26 <K2> hrm
11:26 <K2> well
11:27 <jonadab> ais still claims that most play is offline.
11:27 <K2> its been getting played a fair amount now
11:27 <FIQ> he realized the usefulness of online once kerio/me/whoever managed to convince him to host it online
11:27 <jonadab> But even if that's true, you can't really _tell_ that the offline play is happening, as a developer.
11:27 <FIQ> and he started to do stuff with it again, but stopped shortly after, probably being tired of having to deal with the nitrohack part of everything
11:27 <FIQ> because it was consistently being in the way
11:28 <FIQ> all the time
11:28 <jonadab> You don't get anywhere close to the same level of feedback from offline play, that you do from online play.
11:28 <FIQ> 99% of dynahack bugs was due to nitrohack
11:28 <FIQ> jonadab: have you gotten feedback from offline players
11:28 <FIQ> like, at all
11:28 <jonadab> FIQ: I think one comment once?
11:29 <FIQ> fiqhack can *technically* be played offline, but I never really made an effort to push a proper stable release
11:29 <jonadab> Pretty sure ais gets more than I do.
11:29 <FIQ> perhaps I should start doing it each year after junethack
11:29 <FIQ> because the feature freeze means it ends up being rather stable
11:29 <jonadab> At this point, with two public servers, I have no plans to issue binary releases.
11:30 <jonadab> But I do try to maintain a release cycle with a stable branch.
11:30 <jonadab> And yes, Junethack is relevant for the timing of the cycle.
11:34 <K2> does the WoY steal your quest artifact in dynahack?
11:35 <zombifier> he should not
11:35 <K2> doe snot or should not? big difference
11:35 <K2> does not
11:37 <Tangles> K2: I just pushed a small bugfix to UnNetHack.
11:37 <K2> ok
11:37 <Tangles> If you can believe UnNethack has bugs.
11:38 <K2> noooo
11:38 <K2> that doesnt compute
11:38 <K2> bhaak is perfect in every way :P
11:38 <jonadab> All software has bugs, except for slex.
11:38 <jonadab> In slex they're called "features".
11:38 <Tangles> lol
11:39 <Tangles> I was talking to bhaak about this one on #unnethack last night. He pointed me to the place in the code, I just made the change.
11:39 <LarienTelrunya> slex also has bugs, such as the litter gaze being able to corrode stuff regardless of whether you can see the monster (discovered today)
11:40 <jonadab> EPI: xray gaze attacks that work through walls.
11:41 <Tangles> If you are a convict still wearing your striped shirt, and a shopkeeper sees you, you get banned from the shop forever (ok so far)...
11:41 <K2> motherfucker
11:42 <K2> Q - a cursed greased fireproof +0 cloak of protection and fumbling.
11:42 <jonadab> Heh.
11:42 <jonadab> (being worn) >
11:42 <jonadab> ?
11:42 <K2> no
11:42 <K2> wish
11:42 <jonadab> Ah.
11:42 <K2> N - [ a blessed rustproof +5 pair of gauntlets of power and searching {30} │
11:42 <K2>  │ O - [ a blessed greased rustproof +0 helm of telepathy and speed {50}  
11:42 <jonadab> You wished for a "magical" one.
11:43 <K2> i did get those tho
11:43 <K2> yes
11:43 <K2> i gambled
11:43 <K2> 2/3 aint bad i guess
11:43 <jonadab> Ah.
11:43 <jonadab> Telepathy and speed, that's pretty good.
11:43 <Tangles> However, if you happen to die in the vicinity of the shop (such as in the doorway after unwisely deciding to engage the jerk shopkeeper who won't let you in), and the shk takes your posessions, other players finding your bones will also be banned from the shop.
11:43 <jonadab> Tangles: Ah.
11:44 <K2> UnNetHack updated
11:44 <Tangles> cheers!
11:44 <K2> \o/
11:44 <jonadab> Tangles: So the bones-saving code needs to clear the "banned" bit?
11:44 <Tangles> Yeah
11:44 <aosdict> EPI: wishing for a "magical" version of an item with mgc=1 doesn't work.
11:44 <Tangles> It was being cleared in one place, but not another.
11:45 <jonadab> EPI: wishing for a "magical" version of anything will always give you one of restful sleep.  Leaving the word "magical" out of your wish, the chance of restful sleep is only 1 in 4.
11:45 <Tangles> Unfortunately does not help my current game (since the bug is in the leaving of bones, not finding them), but meh.
11:46 <LarienTelrunya> jonadab: EPI: if the player's name is "jonadab", magical gear will always be of strangulation. :D
11:46 <Tangles> lol
11:46 <LarienTelrunya> although that would require code to make strangulation on non-amulets work
11:47 <jonadab> Oooh, generalize that:  do a simple hash on the player's name, and what magical property you always get is determined by that.
11:47 <jonadab> So all your magical gear will have the same property, but which property it is depends on your name.
11:47 <LarienTelrunya> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I think I just got some *really* evil EPI.
11:47 <Tangles> that's just mean.
11:47 <aosdict> then you get people picking names to get good properties
11:47 <Tangles> also, it makes luck of the Grasshopper a real thing.
11:47 <aosdict> since, y'know, the source is visible
11:48 <jonadab> aosdict: Yes, but it's an EPI, so it doesn't have to be reasonable, sane, or balanced.
11:48 <aosdict> True that.
11:48 <Tangles> (I mean, more real than it already is)
11:48 <jonadab> Who was it that said "You make your own luck" ?  Was that Franklin?
11:49 <Tangles> It was Grasshopper (though he may not have been the first) ;)
11:50 <aosdict> I don't make my own luck, I just polymorph into a water nymph and steal Grasshopper's.
11:50 <Tangles> Anyway, gotta go get some of that restful sleep now. 'night everyone.
11:51 <K2> nite Tangles!
11:54 <bug_sniper> how do giants wear armor in grunthack?
11:55 <K2> they cant wear body armor, shirts or cloaks/robes
11:55 <bug_sniper> then I don't think I want to play a giant more
11:55 <K2> they're fun
11:56 <K2> boulders weigh nothing for them
11:56 <K2> you can toss them all over the place
11:56 <K2> kill stuff
11:56 <K2> plus you cant be engulfed
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11:57 <jonadab> Who needs shirts, anyway?
11:57 <jonadab> Down with shirts.
11:57 <bug_sniper> but you do you get both reflection and magic resistance then?
11:57 <bug_sniper> and make up for the ac you don't get from them
11:57 <jonadab> Amulet and artifact?
11:59 <jonadab> Divine protection?
11:59 <bug_sniper> and what do boulders do if you're a wizard?
12:00 <jonadab> Wait, giants can be wizards?
12:00 <K2> yes
12:00 <K2> i've been playing wiz giant lately
12:00 <K2> you can add reflection to rings in gh
12:00 <jonadab> That seems like an odd combination.
12:00 <K2> it is
12:00 <K2> int can be 18 but wis only 14
12:01 <K2> bug_sniper: tossing boulders as a wizard is bad ass
12:01 <K2> you find a couple boulders on dlvl 1, you're good to go
12:01 <bug_sniper> that makes you an earth bender
12:04 <hothraxxa> congrats on the fh monk, k2
12:04 <FIQ> LarienTelrunya: fiqhack allows strangulation on everything code-wise (but nothing confers strangulation besides the amulet) :)
12:04 <K2> thanks hothraxxa
12:04 <hothraxxa> how was the astral plane?
12:04 <K2> wasnt too bad
12:04 <K2> i did purple rain
12:05 <K2> and then charmed most everything else
12:05 <K2> got lucky went right way first time
12:05 <FIQ> it was a side effect of rewriting how intrinsics work
12:05 <hothraxxa> it's not as effective as vanilla, but it works
12:05 <LarienTelrunya> FIQ: oh, so a hypothetical FIQslex could implement it easily!
12:05 <FIQ> indeed
12:05 <hothraxxa> charm is the way to success in fh
12:05 <hothraxxa> because create/summon monster spam
12:06 <FIQ> hothraxxa: you'll be happy to know that I intend to nerf charm monster
12:06 <hothraxxa> i saw that somewhere
12:06 <FIQ> haven't gotten around to it yet
12:06 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: rebase slex onto FIQHack.
12:06 <FIQ> but I want to make it so that you can only have so many monsters charmed at a time
12:06 <jonadab> Ready set go.
12:06 <LarienTelrunya> jonadab: you should have added "bitches" to that sentence :D:D:D
12:07 <FIQ> fun fact: due to a bug, charm monster used to need to pierce monster MR *twice* in fiqhack
12:07 <FIQ> making charming certain creatures nearly impossible
12:07 <hothraxxa> does anyone know how mandevil calculates duration and whether it is accurate?
12:08 <FIQ> it is accurate for non-NH4 variants
12:08 <FIQ> due to how NH4 variants work, realtime doesn't really work on it
12:08 <Mandevil> hothraxxa: xlogfile has starttime and endtime fields.
12:08 <hothraxxa> ah. thank you
12:08 <jonadab> FIQ: What about Nitro/Dyna?
12:08 <FIQ> jonadab: same thing
12:09 <jonadab> Mandevil: Oh, is it just absolute duration from start of game to end of game?
12:09 <hothraxxa> i was pondering the grunthack first combo ascensions board and noticed that my gnome healer has the shortest duration 
12:09 <jonadab> That should be accurate in all variants, actually.
12:10 <hothraxxa> it was my lowest turn count ascension  by a fair amount
12:10 <Mandevil> jonadab: No, it's the time actually spent playing.
12:10 <hothraxxa> i beat berry by two minutes. that seems... wierd
12:10 <Mandevil> jonadab: Actually, I am sorry.
12:10 <FIQ> jonadab: so apparently the "generate the level with you outside it" code does run in dynahack
12:10 <jonadab> Mandevil: Ah, right, so only accurate in non-Nitro then.
12:10 <FIQ> but it lacks the later nethack4 fixes
12:10 <Mandevil> jonadab: xlogfile has duration field.
12:11 <FIQ> so I wonder if it creates a corrupted level
12:11 <hothraxxa> i am in no way in the same league
12:11 <FIQ> who knows
12:11 <FIQ> K2 will know soon
12:11 <jonadab> hothraxxa: I don't think speed is what Barry is principally known for.
12:11 <hothraxxa> berry, and i know that
12:12 <hothraxxa> anyway, i'm wrong. i misread the table i think
12:12 <Mandevil> hothraxxa: Grunt himself has faster ascension.
12:13 <hothraxxa> yes i am looking again
12:13 <Mandevil> You're not even in first three :) (sorry for that)
12:13 <K2> ok here we go, see if dynahack is gonna crash ;)
12:14 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
12:14 <K2> going to save first
12:14 <K2> ok
12:14 <K2> that was fine
12:14 <oh6>  
12:14 <FIQ> jonadab: you need to entice people to play 4k more, fiqhack almost have as many ascs as 4k despite being around for half as long :P
12:15 <hothraxxa> Mandevil: what, in first ascended combos?
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12:15 <FIQ> hothraxxa: I think Mandevil meant realtime
12:15 <hothraxxa> yes and i think he means all ascensions
12:16 <FIQ> K2: you have so many grunt ascs
12:16 <FIQ> did you ascend all roles?
12:16 <jonadab> FIQ: Yeah, I should offer to add T-shirt messages to the game featuring the first person to ascend each race/role combination in version 4.3.0.5.
12:16 <FIQ> jonadab: that's a cool idea :P
12:16 <FIQ> dnh actually did something like that
12:16 <K2> FIQ: i did
12:16 <FIQ> hallugods
12:16 <jonadab> Yeah.
12:16 <jonadab> That's where I got the idea from.
12:17 <LarienTelrunya> jonadab: you should add messages that have you talk about the other variants, and what you think of them :)
12:17 <FIQ> jonadab: one thing I was considering was to give the first players who ascend a certain role+race
12:17 <FIQ> an astral player monster entry
12:17 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: Fourk isn't trying to be slex.
12:17 <FIQ> with a kit based off the ascension (but balanced alongside the rest)
12:18 <LarienTelrunya> But I would absolutely sweetheart bundle developers who tried to make their variant slex-like. ;)
12:18 <FIQ> so in the end there would be a role+race combination of everything
12:18 * jonadab backs away slowly.
12:19 <K2> LarienTelrunya... urgh no
12:20 <K2> you are unique
12:20 <K2> embrace that
12:20 <FIQ> LarienTelrunya: I fixed the object pile bugs in fiqhack
12:20 <FIQ> so it works ok now :)
12:20 <hothraxxa> slex is full of arbitrary deaths or game-destroying events that you simply cannot anticipate or prepare for
12:20 <K2> dynahack is cutting off messages at the top of the screen
12:20 <LarienTelrunya> FIQ: yay! this will make it more fun when I play it again in 10 months ;)
12:21 <hothraxxa> this is fun if you're just out for a lark, but discourages serious play with an intent to win
12:21 <K2> this makes me sad
12:21 <LarienTelrunya> hothraxxa: git gud :D
12:21 <FIQ> K2: what do you mean?
12:21 <hothraxxa> LarienTelrunya: there is no incentive to get gud
12:21 <FIQ> also, consider disabling classic_status if you're going to have 80x25
12:21 <LarienTelrunya> K2: well I'll still be unique even if other variants were implementing slexisms, but I might actually steal their features if they're slexy enough!
12:21 <LarienTelrunya> hothraxxa: play slex! *bundlebundlebundle* ;)
12:22 <K2> i was at 80x24
12:22 <K2> 80x25 didnt help
12:22 <hothraxxa> i do! but i can't really play it seriously
12:22 <FIQ> oh but that's a simple issue
12:22 <FIQ> disable status3
12:22 <FIQ> it has priority over 2-line msgbar
12:22 <K2> ah
12:23 <FIQ> and then ctrl+r because apparently screen redraw is hard
12:23 <aosdict> YANI: allow thrusting a spear like a lance to hit things 2 spaces away
12:23 <FIQ> thanks
12:23 <K2> yay
12:23 <K2> no ty
12:23 <K2> noty... no ty
12:23 <FIQ> oh the statusbar disappeared for you too? lol
12:23 <K2> no ty... noty
12:23 <K2> noty IS no thankyou!
12:23 <hothraxxa> no, thank YOU!
12:24 <K2> noooo thank YOUUUUUU
12:24 <hothraxxa> why do i keep seeing elaine benes?
12:24 <K2> einhorn, finkle... finkle, einhorn!
12:24 <FIQ> k
12:24 <K2> einhorn IS finkle!
12:25 <aosdict> who is elaine?
12:26 <Mandevil> aosdict: In Crawl spear is a polearm
12:27 <aosdict> why is it that whenever I suggest something people tell me how it already exists in some variant or other roguelike entirely
12:28 <FIQ> aosdict: doesn't mean to invalidate the suggestion
12:28 <FIQ> just saying there is predecence
12:28 <K2> ^ that
12:28 <Mandevil> NetHack needs skills reduced anyway.
12:28 <Mandevil> There's too many of them.
12:28 <FIQ> which is generally a notion *for* the feature
12:28 <Mandevil> Making zero sense.
12:28 <FIQ> not against it
12:28 <Mandevil> So remove spear skill and make it polearm.
12:29 <aosdict> Mandevil: they're used differently
12:29 <Mandevil> aosdict: ?
12:29 <aosdict> spears you can walk up and stab someone with, polearms you can't
12:29 <FIQ> Mandevil: a spear in nethack doesn't even work as a polear
12:29 <FIQ> m
12:29 <FIQ> the skills being seperate make perfect sense
12:29 <FIQ> unlike, say, knives and javelins
12:29 <hothraxxa> aosdict: elaine is a character is seinfeld
12:29 <aosdict> there's a reason all the polearms do only d2 damage in melee
12:30 <aosdict> and spears do normal damage
12:30 <Mandevil> Yeah, that's the simulationist nature of NetHack.
12:30 <Mandevil> It just doesn't make the game better.
12:30 <Mandevil> I totally don't understand why almost every weapon has its own skill class.
12:30 <aosdict> Mandevil: I am writing up something right now that addresses this :D
12:31 <FIQ> what if polearms in nethack was buffed damage-wise
12:31 <FIQ> but can only hit targets up to 2 tiles away
12:31 <FIQ> in an orthogonal direction
12:31 <Mandevil> It would probably be somewhat better.
12:31 <FIQ> (not knights move)
12:31 <FIQ> and doing so is seamless
12:31 <FIQ> as in, the game takes care of it for you
12:31 <aosdict> FIQ: the problem with polearms is the annoying interface, you can't just walk into stuff like you can with every other melee weapon
12:31 <FIQ> combine with autoswap
12:31 <aosdict> ooh, that's interesting
12:32 <Mandevil> aosdict: In Crawl that problem is solved with autofight.
12:32 <Mandevil> aosdict: You press [tab] and the game hits a monster.
12:32 <Mandevil> aosdict: If you're wielding polearm, it will apply the weapon for you.
12:33 <FIQ> also works with bows/etc
12:33 <Mandevil> It works with everything.
12:33 <FIQ> not spells
12:33 <Mandevil> FIQ: There's autocast as well, just not enabled by default.
12:33 <Mandevil> (I don't use that, though).
12:34 <Mandevil> Also, why is there dozen of polearms in NetHack?
12:34 <FIQ> because silliness
12:34 <Mandevil> Some of the devz had medieval warfare as their hobby?
12:35 <FIQ> no, D&D has the same thing
12:35 <Mandevil> Ah.
12:35 <FIQ> and nethack weapons originated from there
12:35 <FIQ> https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Comments
12:35 <FIQ> see the weapons.c comment
12:36 <FIQ> * 1987 and I used the table from Unearthed Arcana until I got tired of typing
12:36 <FIQ> * them in (leading to something of an imbalance towards weapons early in
12:36 <FIQ> * alphabetical order).
12:36 <FIQ> sums up nicely why nethack damage is stupid
12:37 <Mandevil> Haha.
12:39 <aosdict> polearms should probably be reduced, keep some of the distinct ones like the halberd and spetum and bardiche, but the rest can be scrapped
12:40 <Mandevil> trident should be polearm too.
12:40 <aosdict> yep
12:40 <Mandevil> Also, keep glaive.
12:41 <Mandevil> Because it's a naginata for samurai.
12:43 <Mandevil> Oh, and merge long swords and two handed swords.
12:44 <Mandevil> So that using two handed sword is an actual option.
12:44 <aosdict> Nope, I'm buffing two-handed sword into its own fighting style independent of long swords
12:45 <Mandevil> Separate skill for two-handed sword is stupid.
12:45 <aosdict> Not if two-handed swords are much better for damage than single-handed swords, which is the plan.
12:47 <zombifier> morning star and scimitars having separate skill is also weird
12:47 <Mandevil> And sabres.
12:47 <zombifier> there's exactly ONE weapon that uses each of those skills
12:47 <aosdict> morning star is a blunt weapon, scimitar is a bladed weapon?
12:47 <zombifier> yeah saber too
12:48 <Mandevil> morning star should be with flails, hammers.
12:49 <aosdict> okay I just published what I've been writing so you can take a look at it
12:49 <aosdict> https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Phol_ende_wodan/Skill_balance_proposal#Skill_advancement_tree
12:51 <aosdict> basically, skills start off general and get more specialized
12:56 <Mandevil> It makes skill a little better.
12:56 <Mandevil> skills
12:58 <FIQ> zombifier: morning star and mace should share skill
12:58 <Mandevil> I'd also move whips into blunt weapons, but that's just me.
12:59 <aosdict> yup, it's basically a spiky mace
12:59 <aosdict> "blunt weapon" was more meant as "heavy bludgeoning weapon"
13:00 <Mandevil> As it is, whip is totally useless as weapon.
13:02 <K2> hmm
13:02 <K2> i thought the portals to dragon caves were in the VotD
13:02 <K2> is it different for dynahack?
13:02 <Mandevil> Yes.
13:02 <K2> ok
13:02 <Mandevil> DynaHack does not have any portals in VotD.
13:03 <Mandevil> That's UnNetHack thing.
13:03 <K2> gotcha
13:03 <FIQ> dynahack doesn't have the votd nexus
13:03 <FIQ> Mandevil: *UnNethack5
13:03 <Mandevil> Dragon Caves are in deep Gehennom.
13:03 <K2> ok
13:03 <FIQ> dyna has everything unnethack
13:03 <FIQ> but it's based off an older version
13:03 <Mandevil> So it doesn't have some things.
13:03 <Mandevil> Like Moria.
13:03 <FIQ> indeed
13:03 <aosdict> Maybe I should move flail out of blunt weapons and put them in a "swinging weapons" class, though that still wouldn't hep.
13:03 <aosdict> help*
13:04 <Mandevil> Keep it in blunt weapons.
13:04 <FIQ> aosdict: I think Mandevil is preaching dcss skill set
13:04 <FIQ> so you're better off simply just looking at it
13:04 <FIQ> to get an idea of what Mandevil wants
13:04 <Mandevil> FIQ: I want weapons to make sense :)
13:05 <Mandevil> In Crawl, every weapon class has something that others don't.
13:05 <Mandevil> Not just different damage.
13:05 <Mandevil> But some special mechanic.
13:05 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
13:05 <aosdict> Well, whips do have that
13:05 <Mandevil> Polearms have reaching, long blades have riposte, axes cleave.
13:05 <FIQ> in what way are long blades and short blades different
13:05 <Mandevil> Etc.
13:05 <FIQ> mechanic-wise
13:05 <Mandevil> FIQ: Short blades are light, fast and good for stabbing.
13:05 <FIQ> numbers
13:06 <FIQ> you said "not just different damage"
13:06 <Mandevil> I just said.
13:06 <FIQ> so I assumed you meant "other than different numbers"
13:06 <Mandevil> They require less skill.
13:06 <Mandevil> They do much more damage when stabbing.
13:06 <Mandevil> They are also very common.
13:06 <FIQ> that is a mechanic difference yeah
13:06 <FIQ> what about long blades vs maces+flails
13:07 <FIQ> the only difference besides numbers on top of my head is that one slays hydras better
13:07 <Mandevil> FIQ: They riposte.
13:07 <FIQ> riposte?
13:07 <Mandevil> FIQ: Also there are (eu)demon blades that are very good one-handers.
13:07 <Mandevil> FIQ: Also blessed long blades do more damage.
13:08 <FIQ> dcss doesn't have BUC
13:08 <Mandevil> FIQ: TSO can bless a weapon.
13:08 <FIQ> sldo
13:08 <FIQ> *also
13:08 <FIQ> in nethack
13:08 <Mandevil> FIQ: Ripose is additional attack that happens when you evade a monster's attack.
13:08 <FIQ> long blades do more damage
13:08 <FIQ> you literally just said "more differences than damage"
13:09 <FIQ> hmm
13:09 <FIQ> I didn't know riposte was a thing
13:09 <Mandevil> FIQ: Maces are also more common early.
13:10 <Beholder> [gh] bugsniper (Wiz Kob Mal Cha), 205 points, T:399, killed by a boulder
13:11 <Beholder> [gh] bugsniper (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 0 points, T:73, killed by a kobold werejackal
13:34 <Beholder> [dyn] groovejumper (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 38059 points, T:37504, killed by an air elemental
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14:09 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Cam Ang Fem Cha), 435 points, T:820, killed by a monster (spacewars fighter)
14:30 <FIQ> see I am not the only one who dislike orctown https://www.reddit.com/r/nethack/comments/6r5u87/new_player_third_in_a_row_that_i_stumble_upon/dl2ksnx/
14:30 * FIQ points at lorimer, then curses
14:30 <FIQ> :P
15:10 <Beholder> [nd] Rx (Hea Gno Mal Neu), 1999 points, T:4391, killed by a bolt of cold
15:20 -!- Tomthetom has joined #hardfought
15:38 -!- Tomthetom has quit [Read error: No route to host]
15:38 -!- Tomthetom00 has joined #hardfought
16:12 <FIQ> K2: someone else on RLdiscord got fail2banned
16:12 <FIQ> fix your settings man
16:15 -!- noty has joined #hardfought
16:31 -!- raisse has quit [Read error: No route to host]
16:31 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
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16:31 <Beholder> [nd] munterplant (Val Hum Fem Law), 2282 points, T:1732, killed by a Woodland-elf
16:36 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
16:50 <Beholder> [fh] Fisting Hard (Tomthetom) (Mon Hum Fem Cha), 32320 points, T:3253, turned to slime by a green slime
16:56 <FIQ> Tomthetom00: how did you get slimes that early
16:57 <Beholder> [nd] munterplant (Val Hum Fem Law), 1211 points, T:1838, killed by a kobold mummy
16:58 <Beholder> [slex] bugsniper (Ota Spe Mal Cha), 47310 points, T:7173, quit
17:00 <Tomthetom00> FIQ, Wasnt early lol
17:05 <FIQ> turn 3k
17:13 -!- Tomthetom00 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
17:30 <K2> FIQ who was it
17:30 <FIQ> Ether
17:30 <K2> can you ask them for their IP
17:34 <Beholder> [nd] munterplant (Val Hum Fem Law), 461 points, T:1046, killed by a gnome lord
17:39 <K2> nothing i can do if i dont have an IP to work with...
17:39 <K2> i reset fail2ban so it's not quite so unforgiving
17:39 <greqrg> I just asked him for you K2
17:39 <K2> ok thx
17:40 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought
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17:40 <greqrg> He sounds very confused and I just told him to get on irc if he wants help because I don't think anyone wants to go back and forth like this...
17:40 <K2> that would be best
17:43 -!- Ether_ has joined #hardfought
17:43 <Ether_> Hello
17:43 <Beholder> Hello Ether_, Welcome to #hardfought
17:44 <K2> hi
17:44 <Beholder> Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought
17:44 <Ether_> @K2 greqrg told me about you know about the possible ban from ascension for Nethack
17:45 <K2> ascension.run ?
17:45 <Ether_> yea
17:45 <K2> ah that's not me
17:45 <K2> we run the hardfought nethack serv
17:45 <K2> server
17:45 <Ether_> oh
17:45 <K2> kerio runs ascension.run
17:46 <Ether_> is Fiq too right?
17:46 <K2> channel same name
17:46 <K2> no FIQ doesnt run anything on ascension.run
17:46 <K2> you'll want to join #ascension.run and ask kerio for help
17:47 <Ether_> Iam basically a noob on Nethack, whats the difference with hardfought?
17:47 <aosdict> it's a different server
17:47 <K2> we run more variants here. hardfought is located in the US, ascension.run is in europe
17:48 <K2> and it's prob safe to say i'm a bit more approachable than kerio ;)
17:48 <aosdict> nethack servers aren't centralized or anything
17:48 <aosdict> K2 and kerio are just people who said "hey it would be cool if I ran a nethack server"
17:48 <K2> heh
17:48 <Ether_> eh lol
17:48 <K2> i scrubbed your IP against my firewall iptable, you're not on it Ether
17:50 <Ether_> the problem was, I loaded Fiq in guake terminal, using fish shell. I alt tab for some minutes
17:50 <K2> FIQ: gdamn man get your shit straight :P
17:50 <Ether_> when I back, the game freezed
17:50 <FIQ> K2: this is the first time I've been *wrong* in this regard
17:50 <FIQ> ;)
17:50 <K2> pfft
17:50 <K2> first time today
17:51 <K2> i tweaked f2b anyways, needed it
17:51 <Ether_> restarted the terminal, when i tried to log in, my account was logged but I could not back to play. Is a problem with me or the server?
17:51 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Cam Ang Fem Cha) killed Lea, on T:4982
17:51 <K2> that doesnt sound like a ban
17:51 <K2> you were able to login
17:52 <K2> perhaps the FIQhack process froze or there's an instance running that the server hasnt killed
17:53 <K2> hmm
17:53 <K2> i just started a new FIQhack game on ascrun
17:53 <K2> no issues i can tell
17:53 <Ether_> Well I tried to log in again with my account and nothing happens, I cant go back
17:54 <K2> where are you located?
17:55 <Ether_> South America
17:55 <Ether_> Colombia
17:56 <K2> nice. rare to see someone from your region play. welcome
17:57 <Ether_> It is, not alot of people like roguelikes
17:57 <Ether_> here
17:57 <Chris__ANG> How long ago did this happen?
17:58 <Ether_> Yesterday I tried to play Nethack so I go to the Discord server
17:58 <K2> you could try setting up an account on hardfought, see how that works for you
17:58 <K2> ssh nethack@hardfought.org
17:59 <K2> hell, it could be a router issue between you and ascrun
17:59 <K2> but i dount that given what you're describing...
17:59 <K2> doubt
18:00 <Chris__ANG> Can you play other variants on asc.run?
18:00 <K2> yeah try just regular nethack on ascrun
18:00 <K2> see how it acts
18:01 <K2> this is all probably FIQ's fault...
18:01 <FIQ> ?
18:01 <K2> ;)
18:01 <K2> oh
18:01 <Ether_> For sure could be in problem here, internet is a bit bad, I not linux wise
18:01 * FIQ zaps K2 with a magic missile!
18:01 <K2> i forgot the <sarcasm></sarcasm>
18:01 <FIQ> Ether_: if you're in south america
18:01 <FIQ> maybe try hardfought?
18:02 <Ether_> yea
18:03 <K2> there ya go
18:03 <K2> bork fogg
18:03 <K2> lol
18:03 <Ether_> ye
18:04 <Ether_> my first roguelike was Castle of the Winds
18:04 <Ether_> them I read later that game is a clone of Nethack 
18:04 <Ether_> but more simple
18:05 <K2> yeah that game has some history
18:05 <K2> been around a long while
18:05 <LarienTelrunya> yaaaaaay Castle of the Winds! I was absolutely addicted to it for over a decade when I was younger :)
18:06 <K2> wait
18:06 <K2> you were... younger??
18:06 * K2 gasps
18:06 <LarienTelrunya> well I discovered it at an age of 9 or 10 I think
18:06 <K2> :P
18:06 <jonadab> And you're not 9 or 10 now?
18:06 <LarienTelrunya> lol
18:06 <Ether_> But after years I could never defeat Sutur
18:07 <K2> i always picture you in your 20's LarienTelrunya
18:07 <Ether_> the dude do tri elemental spells
18:07 <Ether_> also summon pit fiends constantly
18:07 <K2> please say you're as old as the queen of england
18:08 <jonadab> Haha.
18:08 <K2> (the queen is on my bucket list fyi)
18:08 <Ether_> who me? lol
18:08 <LarienTelrunya> K2: wanna know how old I am?
18:08 <K2> NO
18:08 <K2> :P
18:08 <LarienTelrunya> okay
18:08 <K2> i kid
18:08 <jonadab> Isn't the queen, like, basically a thousand years old?
18:08 <K2> jonadab: yes. and i'd still do her six ways to sunday in a heartbeat
18:08 <jonadab> I mean, wasn't she queen way back when Strom Thurmond was born?
18:09 <K2> she's the QUEEN
18:09 <K2> i even have blessing from the boss (aka wife)
18:09 <Ether_> Ok is something in my computer
18:09 <jonadab> K2: Probably because she thinks it'll never happen.
18:09 <Ether_> I back to the terminal and is frozed
18:10 <K2> hmm
18:10 -!- Chris__ANG is now known as Chris_ANG
18:10 <K2> jonadab: right. but i have a way of making things happen
18:10 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: Just tell us if you were at Woodstock or not, and let it go at that :-)
18:10 <K2> hah now i gotta know
18:10 <LarienTelrunya> not much of a festival girl
18:11 <K2> we should do a poll
18:12 <jonadab> (At one time, the number of people who claimed they were at woodstock was something like ten thousand times as many people as were actually there.  These days, it's probably somewhat lower due to the fact that you'd pretty much be claiming to be too old not to be senile.)
18:12 <K2> !8ball does K2 truly know how old LarienTelrunya is?
18:12 <Beholder> K2: Yes
18:12 <K2> see
18:12 <hothraxxa> hey!
18:12 <Beholder> Hello hothraxxa, Welcome to #hardfought
18:12 <K2> hahahah
18:12 <LarienTelrunya> so do you want to guess and then I tell you how far off you were?
18:12 <hothraxxa> i'm old enough to have been at woodstock
18:13 <K2> i'm gonna go with 27, almost 28
18:13 <hothraxxa> i wasn't, but i'm not senile yet either
18:13 <LarienTelrunya> K2: you were close, I'm 30
18:13 <jonadab> I think my parents were in gradeschool at the time.
18:13 <K2> \o/
18:13 <K2> always guess low ;)
18:13 <hothraxxa> you young whippersnappers, no respect for your elders anymore
18:14 <jonadab> No, wait, Wikipedia says it was '69, my parents would've been about high school graduation age or so.
18:14 <K2> and *never ever* aska woman when she's due, no matter how she looks.
18:14 <jonadab> But they hadn't met yet.
18:14 <Ether_> 32
18:15 <K2> i was born right after woodstock :/
18:15 <Ether_> we old farts 
18:15 <jonadab> K2: When the subject of birthdays come up, I joke about asking people, "Are you sixty yet?"
18:15 <jonadab> *comes
18:15 <hothraxxa> yes. yes i am
18:15 <K2> heh
18:15 <Grasshopper> K2: Elizabeth was a real hottie when she was younger. Still is, of course
18:15 <K2> of course
18:15 <hothraxxa> actually 70 in two weeks
18:15 <jonadab> Grasshopper: Who would know?  They hadn't invented photography yet.
18:15 <K2> yeah she's been #1 on my bucket list going on 20 yrs now
18:16 <Grasshopper> jonadab: she became Queen in 1952
18:16 <K2> alanis morrisette is a close second
18:16 <hothraxxa> lizzie? ben there done that
18:16 <jonadab> Grasshopper: Oh, not until then?
18:16 <jonadab> I thought it was sooner, somehow.
18:16 <K2> hothraxxa you shut up
18:16 <Grasshopper> pretty sure I could rustle up some photos with an internet trawl
18:17 <K2> Grasshopper check your PM please
18:17 <aosdict> Sixty-fifth anniversary this year?
18:17 <jonadab> Isn't her husband dead?
18:17 <K2> hothraxxa: you have not had relations with the queen of england. dont tease me
18:17 <hothraxxa> i have many pictures of the queen right here in my pocket
18:17 <hothraxxa> and beyond that i'm not saying
18:18 <jonadab> Hah.
18:18 <K2> ...
18:18 <Grasshopper> Philip just retired from doing public functions by himself
18:18 <Grasshopper> He is like 90-something, so fair enough
18:18 <hothraxxa> i bet her majesty was relieved
18:19 <jonadab> Grasshopper: Oh, huh.
18:19 <hothraxxa> he is also prone to saying awkward things
18:19 <jonadab> I thought she'd been a widow for decades, for some reason.
18:19 <jonadab> Maybe I have her confused with somebody else.
18:19 <Grasshopper> Lizzy will live a long time yet I warrant
18:19 <Grasshopper> she never smoked
18:19 <K2> she better
18:20 <Grasshopper> Her dad died early (or lung cancer), which is why she got to be queen very young
18:20 <K2> LarienTelrunya: the queen of england should be a playable class in slex
18:20 <LarienTelrunya> hahaha :D
18:20 <K2> assuming it isnt already
18:21 <K2> 6d8 wave attack
18:21 <jonadab> Nah, she should be a quest leader.
18:21 <K2> helllooooo....
18:21 <hothraxxa> they're not really leaders, you know
18:21 <K2> *wave*
18:21 <hothraxxa> more like commanders
18:21 <hothraxxa> it's not like they lead you anywhere
18:22 <aosdict> "Go back outside and don't come back until you're XL14!"
18:22 <K2> hah
18:22 <jonadab> Heh.
18:22 <hothraxxa> you should take that into account in your revisions aosdict
18:23 <aosdict> what?
18:23 <hothraxxa> they're commanders not leaders
18:23 <Grasshopper> Here's a photo of QEII in uniform, must be back when she was a mechanic in WWII
18:23 <Grasshopper> http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/queen-elizabeth-ii/images/37969635/title/young-queen-elizabeth-ii-photo
18:23 <K2> oh yeah
18:23 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Cam Ang Fem Cha), 30932 points, T:6097, drowned in a pool of water by an anaconda
18:23 <Grasshopper> baby, baby
18:24 <hothraxxa> that were practically a pinup when i were a lad
18:24 <hothraxxa> you can see that she has breasts
18:24 <jonadab> hothraxxa: Eh, Mae West dressed way more provocatively than that.
18:24 <hothraxxa> oh don't i know it
18:25 <hothraxxa> i think you miss my humour there
18:25 <hothraxxa> i guess you had to be there
18:25 <Grasshopper> hothraxxa: you were a lad?
18:25 <hothraxxa> anyway, next in that sequence is http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/queen-elizabeth-ii/images/37969634/title/young-queen-elizabeth-ii-photo
18:25 <hothraxxa> much much hotter
18:26 <jonadab> That makes her look like an emo.
18:26 <hothraxxa> i were a wee laddy 
18:26 <jonadab> I don't think photos of her are right unless she's smiling.
18:26 <Grasshopper> hothraxxa: I took a photo of my sister that looked very much like that one 
18:26 <Ether_> ok gonna try in the default gnome terminal
18:26 <K2> ok
18:26 <Grasshopper> r name is Elizabeth too
18:26 <Grasshopper> her
18:26 <K2> was gonna say i still see you online
18:26 <hothraxxa> hmm
18:27 <Grasshopper> I entitled that photo "Take that camera away and shove it up your arse"
18:27 <Ether_> I just relog right now
18:27 <hothraxxa> i think she looks quite sexy in that portrait
18:27 <hothraxxa> NOT YOUR SISTER
18:27 <Grasshopper> that's what makes it sexy ;D
18:27 <hothraxxa> ok maybe your sister too. show me the pic
18:27 <Grasshopper> dunno, lost to the sands of time
18:28 <Grasshopper> in some album somewhere in my shed
18:28 <K2> oh man
18:28 * hothraxxa imagines grasshopper's sultry sexy sister
18:28 <jonadab> The time before digital photos, when you had one physical copy...
18:28 <K2> this is starting to go south
18:28 <Ether_> lmao I killed my cat
18:28 <Grasshopper> jonadab: yes
18:28 <Ether_> in game*
18:28 <K2> Ether_ try not to kill your pets. your deity frowns upon that ;)
18:29 <Grasshopper> now with digital you get a zillion copies and never print them
18:29 <Ether_> was a mistake
18:29 <jonadab> Ether_: That's not terribly unusual.
18:29 <hothraxxa> and you can never find what you want
18:29 <jonadab> I mean, you try to avoid it.  But it happens.
18:29 <LarienTelrunya> !lastgame dolores
18:29 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dolores/slex/dumplog/1502561368.slex.txt
18:29 <K2> i accidentally killed my pet dragon in last nights FIQhack game when taking out the wizard
18:29 <K2> oops
18:30 <jonadab> Have you ever killed your pet in GruntHack by throwing tripe at it?
18:30 <hothraxxa> at least it didn't die because you tossed it tripe
18:30 <Beholder> [fh] Bork Fogg (Ether) (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 6963 points, T:27, quit
18:30 <hothraxxa> you don a helmet of lead
18:30 <K2> hah
18:30 <K2> you're still bitter about that eh hothraxxa
18:31 <hothraxxa> i am
18:31 <K2> has that been addressed? i cant remember
18:31 <hothraxxa> i don't think it actually affected my game much. it's just my amy moment
18:31 <jonadab> In GruntHack, that's considered Not A Bug, IIRC.
18:31 <Ether_> I read somewhere you should use forcebolt in a fountain or something like that
18:32 <Ether_> but the dumb cat was there and I killed it
18:32 <jonadab> Does force bolt do anything to a fountain?
18:32 <K2> not that i'm aware of
18:32 <Grasshopper> you'd expect it to make a mess
18:32 <Ether_> read something in the wiki (wizard tips)
18:32 <hothraxxa> i think you might have confused something
18:32 <jonadab> Wouldn't be surprised if it turns a sink _into_ a fountain.
18:32 <Ether_> perhaps yeah
18:33 <K2> force bolt statues not fountains
18:33 <jonadab> Also breaks doors.
18:33 <Ether_> aw shet
18:33 <hothraxxa> of course, that must be it
18:33 <K2> thats what the wiki says to do for ammo/search for spellbooks
18:36 <jonadab> EPI: if force bolt or striking hits a throne, it destroys the throne
18:36 <jonadab> EPI: if a throne gets destroyed, your diety gets angry.
18:36 <K2> hmm
18:36 <K2> that might actually happen in sporkhack
18:36 <K2> since its considered an actual object
18:36 <Ether_> The force bolt hits the grid bug!  The grid bug is killed!  
18:37 <jonadab> Yeah, but the dungeon isn't a grass hut.
18:37 <Ether_> A door appears in the wall!  The door crashes open!  
18:37 <Ether_> So is a piercing spell?
18:37 <jonadab> It's a bolt of force.
18:37 <jonadab> It breaks things.
18:37 <hothraxxa> no, you used force bolt and the grid bug was in line with a secret door
18:37 <jonadab> Or tries to.
18:37 <jonadab> And yes, the door was there all the time, you just didn't know.
18:38 <Ether_> So the spells dont stop when hit a enemy
18:38 <jonadab> Force bolt doesn't.
18:38 <jonadab> Actually, most spells don't.
18:38 <jonadab> Unless the enemy has reflection, in which case most rays bounce back.
18:38 <jonadab> But force bolt isn't a ray, it's a beam.
18:38 <jonadab> So it won't bounce.
18:39 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed]
18:40 -!- nymphet has joined #hardfought
18:42 <nymphet> !lastgame dolores
18:42 <Beholder> nymphet: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dolores/slex/dumplog/1502561368.slex.txt
18:44 <K2> :/
18:44 <nymphet> hello K2
18:44 <nymphet> did yo see me die?
18:44 <K2> hiya
18:44 <nymphet> I tried hard on that game
18:44 <K2> no i didnt
18:45 <nymphet> I went to the mines to try to find a way to dig down
18:45 <nymphet> I had my quest level
18:45 <nymphet> wtihout the monsters
18:45 <nymphet> and it was horrible!
18:45 <K2> i recently died that way to a giant eel in one of my last grunthack games
18:45 <K2> me being stupid
18:45 <nymphet> I got a -20 ac armor
18:45 <nymphet> aaah
18:45 <nymphet> that's sad
18:46 <nymphet> I didn't realize there was water under the anaconda
18:46 <nymphet> would of filled my hole
18:46 <K2> two of em showed up, one grabbed me, so i had 50/50 chance of teleporting the correct one. i guessed wrong ;)
18:46 <nymphet> :(
18:46 <Grasshopper> K2: next time, break the wand
18:46 <nymphet> that's sad
18:46 <K2> yeah
18:47 <nymphet> that just sounds annoying
18:47 <K2> which is why we love nethack and its variants so much
18:47 <jonadab> K2: IMO, it's a bug that you can't tell which monster is holding you by farlooking them.
18:47 <Grasshopper> we love to sufefr?
18:47 <Grasshopper> suffer?
18:47 <K2> we do
18:47 <K2> that too
18:47 <jonadab> K2: Also, you could've _broken_ the wand of teleportation.
18:48 <K2> yes well
18:48 <Grasshopper> I love being a surfer
18:48 <K2> YASD
18:48 <Grasshopper> surfing is much more fun than suffering
18:48 <nymphet> can you really break wands
18:48 <K2> ;)
18:48 <nymphet> I should of used a wand I didn't realize
18:48 <K2> yes if your strength is high enough
18:48 <Grasshopper> nymphet: a)pply them
18:48 <nymphet> I would of been drowned
18:48 <K2> and it doesnt need to be that high
18:49 <Grasshopper> strength 10 needed to break a wand
18:49 <K2> assuming thats the same in slex
18:49 <nymphet> I would guess so
18:49 <K2> loli has asked a few times for advice on slex and i honestly dont know what to tell her
18:50 <nymphet> I'm loli
18:50 <K2> hi loli #2
18:50 <nymphet> thanks
18:50 <nymphet> not home
18:50 <nymphet> so I can't use loli
18:50 <K2> ah
18:50 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Cam Ang Fem Cha), 1294 points, T:1144, killed by a monster (spikey mushroom patch)
18:50 <Ether_> eh
18:50 <K2> nymphet - loli. dunno how i missed that ;)
18:50 <nymphet> haha
18:50 <nymphet> they mean the same thing!
18:50 <aosdict> irssi colors both of them red
18:51 <nymphet> does it?
18:51 <nymphet> loli is red
18:51 <nymphet> but since I'm nymphet
18:51 <nymphet> it's white
18:51 <aosdict> as well as LarienTelrunya, interestingly.
18:51 <nymphet> lol
18:51 <aosdict> so I can just assume red=slex
18:51 <nymphet> haha
18:51 <nymphet> nice
18:51 <nymphet> I like that
18:51 <nymphet> nice RNG
18:51 <aosdict> I don't think anyone else here is red
18:51 <nymphet> that's what 20 choose 3
18:51 <K2> ah so
18:52 <K2> learn something new everyday
18:52 <nymphet> 1,140 combinations
18:52 <nymphet> of 3 names out of 20
18:52 <nymphet> oh there are 33
18:52 <jonadab> In my case, Beholder is red.  (Red is reserved in my setup, for bots and dev team.)
18:52 <nymphet> 1 second
18:52 <nymphet> 5,456
18:52 <K2> i didnt know that loli was short for lolita
18:52 <aosdict> jonadab: yeah I should probably configure that
18:52 <K2> i'm so out of touch with today's youth
18:52 <nymphet> haha
18:52 <K2> ;)
18:52 <nymphet> the book isn't that young
18:53 <aosdict> do you know how many people in #nethack have blue six-character names? Including Rodney?
18:53 <nymphet> I do like the play on words there, though
18:53 <jonadab> aosdict: Heh.
18:54 <K2> i did have an idea about what nymphet stands for though
18:54 <K2> huh
18:54 <nymphet> ???
18:54 <K2> makes sense
18:54 <nymphet> yeet
18:54 <nymphet> I have a theme bonus going on
18:54 <K2> hahah
18:55 <K2> hothraxxa! let's talk about the queen of england again, bring me back into my comfort zone
18:55 <nymphet> hahah
18:55 <nymphet> I like that
18:55 <K2> :P
18:55 <nymphet> ded
18:55 <nymphet> wtf
18:55 <Ether_> The water is contaminated!  The fountain dries up!  ayy lmao
18:55 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Blo Ang Fem Cha), 73 points, T:283, killed by a solar beam
18:55 <nymphet> that was some bullset
18:56 <nymphet> 55 dmg
18:56 <nymphet> attack
18:56 <nymphet> or something
18:56 <K2> welcome to slex
18:56 <nymphet> !lastgame
18:56 <Beholder> nymphet: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dolores/slex/dumplog/1502578278.slex.txt
18:56 <nymphet> !lastgame dolores
18:56 <Beholder> nymphet: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dolores/slex/dumplog/1502578278.slex.txt
18:56 <hothraxxa> k2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzb5QABCmak
18:56 <nymphet>   The watchman of Ambarannon zaps a lavender wand!
18:56 <K2> This video contains content from UMG_MK. It is not available in your country.
18:56 <K2> bah!
18:56 <K2> time to reconfig the vpn
18:56 <hothraxxa> hrm. we canadians can see it
18:57 <nymphet> lol
18:57 <K2> oh gimmie 10 sec
18:57 <nymphet> what country are you in right now
18:57 <nymphet> vpn wise
18:57 <K2> us east
18:57 <K2> for speed sake
18:57 <nymphet> lol
18:57 <K2> but my irc account here is local since i'm using znc
18:58 <K2> on the server
18:58 <nymphet> huh
18:58 <K2> there we go
18:58 <K2> playing now
18:58 <K2> damn you interwebz
18:58 <jonadab> Hmm, that's something I should consider if I ever break down and spring for a VPS.
18:58 <Ether_> the traps can be dissabled or something?
18:59 <K2> some traps yes
18:59 <jonadab> If I get one that's hosted overseas, I could use it to get around stupid geographic restrictions.
18:59 <hothraxxa> ether: some can be u)ntrapped
18:59 <FIQ> Some, but generally you can just ignore them
18:59 <K2> i use PIA
18:59 <jonadab> Although, most geograhic restrictions don't exclude Americans unless they only allow access from specific countries.
18:59 <nymphet> PIA hasn't been working well for me lately
18:59 <K2> i could show as connecting from Grasshopper's house
18:59 <nymphet> openvpn hasn't liked it since my newest account
19:00 <jonadab> Ether_: Different kinds of traps can be eliminated in different ways.
19:00 <jonadab> For example, trap doors can be plugged with boulders.
19:00 <nymphet> so can moats!
19:00 <nymphet> it's wonderful
19:00 <hothraxxa> ether: how unspoiled do you want to be? the wiki has extensive articles on traps and fountains and such
19:00 <jonadab> Squeaky boards can be untrapped with grease or oil, which would be a reasonable mechanic if oil and grease weren't so rare and useful.
19:01 <nymphet> I'm rather unspoiled outside of the things amy tells me
19:01 <nymphet> lol
19:01 <nymphet> it's a nice way to learn
19:01 <hothraxxa> difficult to be otherwsie in slex
19:01 <Ether_> is for give an idea how much can be done in this game, I play mostly Cataclysm, and everything there can be disassembled for retrieve parts
19:02 <jonadab> EPI: the game should track which actions the player does most often and start penalizing the player for them, so that you have to adapt your play style.
19:02 <K2> so i've listened to that lil diddy about a dozen times now hothraxxa
19:02 <hothraxxa> heh
19:02 <K2> paul mccartney has enough cash to buy england and everyone on it
19:02 <nymphet> jonadab: that's too evil
19:02 <jonadab> hothraxxa: What, you don't want to memorize the slex source?
19:02 <nymphet> and might alreaady be in slex 
19:02 <nymphet> btw
19:02 <nymphet> I learned today
19:02 <K2> so essientially he *could* make her majesty his
19:02 <nymphet> there is a 1/100 chance of not going back up the stairs
19:02 <nymphet> 1/250 not being able to go back down
19:03 <nymphet> the more you know~
19:03 <K2> ya slex
19:03 <K2> not
19:03 <hothraxxa> jonadab: i don't mind the endless variety of monsters and items
19:03 <nymphet> is it the same in other variants?
19:03 <nymphet> or just what amy did to nerf it
19:03 <K2> no
19:03 <K2> amy nerfed stairs
19:03 <nymphet> the pokedex makes it work hothraxxa 
19:03 <jonadab> nymphet: As a general rule, you should not assume that anything in slex is the same in other variants.
19:03 <hothraxxa> my objection is the high number of arbitrary deaths and game-destroying events that you cannot possible know about or prepare for
19:04 <jonadab> hothraxxa: That's slex's _primary_ schtick.
19:04 <hothraxxa> apparently
19:04 <jonadab> That's the fundamental approach it takes to balance, and is considered a major design goal.
19:04 <nymphet> you can prepare for a lot from what I'veseen
19:04 <hothraxxa> amy says it works as intended
19:04 <nymphet> ther'es a lot of my mistakes
19:04 <nymphet> that makes me die
19:04 <jonadab> IN particular, if a skilled, experienced player can reliably win every game, that's considered a bug in slex.
19:04 <Ether_> oh unidetified scrolls mmm how dangerous is try to read / drink stuff
19:05 <hothraxxa> ether: quite dangerous
19:05 <jonadab> Ether_: Attempting to use unidentified items is usually considered bad strategy in NetHack.
19:05 <nymphet> is it?
19:05 <Ether_> there are some rogue-lites- that dont punish too much for trying out
19:05 <nymphet> in slex it's okay most of the time
19:05 <nymphet> to read unidentified scrolls
19:05 <hothraxxa> a skilled, experienced slex player (if one exited besides amy) would still die many times over before winning a game
19:06 <jonadab> Ether_: Brogue _requires_ you to use-identify items.  And that works for Brogue.
19:06 <jonadab> But NetHack has other ways.
19:06 <nymphet> amy dies a lot as well
19:06 <nymphet> so it seems
19:06 <K2> this is why its bad to use unidentifed items in nethack - https://www.hardfought.org/phpBB3/gallery/image/2473
19:06 <hothraxxa> loli: that's what i just said really
19:06 <jonadab> (_mostly_ works for Brogue; potion of hallucination is a significant problem, in that if you get it when you don't have a potion of life, you are basically dead).
19:06 <nymphet> bb
19:07 <Ether_> Or drink a fire potion with low hp
19:07 <jonadab> K2: Actually, they say if you get a genocide from a non-BUCced scroll, you should say krakens.
19:07 <Ether_> was going to die in other game, and I got an undetified potion, so I risked drink it anyways lol
19:08 <K2> good point
19:08 <K2> they bite kinda hard though
19:08 <jonadab> K2: They're helpless on land.
19:08 <hothraxxa> krakens are really slow though
19:08 <Ether_> burst into flames, I killed the monster but I killed myself in the process
19:08 <K2> cant they still attack though?
19:08 <hothraxxa> yeah, aren't they like 1 hp or something on land?
19:08 * K2 shrugs
19:09 <jonadab> Not sure.
19:09 <jonadab> I mean, I suppose you could say mimics or grid bugs instead.
19:09 <hothraxxa> i don't see anything in the wiki about that
19:09 <zombifier> I do remember they being absolutely slow on land. I don't think they have their hp reduced to 1 though
19:11 <hothraxxa> no they don't. i don't know where i got that idea
19:14 <aosdict> and they can still be pretty powerful on land, but can't drown you, which is the important thing
19:16 * aosdict wiztests revgenoing kraken in 3.6, they are surprisingly nimble on land
19:16 <nymphet> hothraxxa: I was confirming that
19:16 <Chris_ANG> Don't they lose a HP per turn on land?
19:17 <nymphet> how consistent are normal *hack players
19:17 <nymphet> <- ¬variants = slex
19:18 <hothraxxa> you mean ascension percentage?
19:18 <nymphet> yes
19:19 <hothraxxa> the problem is that some really good players have a low percentage
19:19 <Ether_> Mmm even the gnome terminal freezes...
19:19 <Ether_> when I go afk for some minutes
19:20 <Ether_> but only happens with the ssh game
19:20 <K2> my asc percentage is somewhere between 1.5-2%
19:20 -!- mariari has joined #hardfought
19:21 <hothraxxa> mandevil says i'm at 12.1% for all variants he tracks
19:21 <K2> hmm
19:21 <K2> its exactly 1.0% across all variants ;)
19:22 <aosdict> mine is about 9-10% on NAO. Here, I have a lot of grunt deaths
19:22 <K2> but that score inflate script thing we tested during junethack screwed that up
19:22 <hothraxxa> grasshopper is at 40%
19:22 <Ether_> @k2 the server have a afk timeout?
19:22 <K2> ether yes it does
19:22 <K2> one hour
19:22 <K2> it'll save your game and log you out
19:22 <Ether_> how much? the game freeze when I altab for some minutes
19:23 <Ether_> 1 hour? lol
19:23 <K2> yup
19:23 <hothraxxa> elenmirie, who is an excellent player, is at 2%
19:23 <K2> most servers dont log you out at all, which is nuts
19:23 <Ether_> them I not sure what is happening
19:23 <K2> i still show you as idle
19:24 <aosdict> #q
19:24 <aosdict> oops
19:24 <K2> hothraxxa: that stupid script thing FIQ showed me that we tested during junethack to inflate log scores
19:24 <K2> i now show 997 scummed games :(
19:24 <aosdict> krakens revgenoed on DL1 are also oddly unwilling to attack you
19:25 <hothraxxa> i just noticed that elenmirie shows 3012 scummed games. that's not right
19:25 <hothraxxa> aosdict: eventually they will. i just got killed that way
19:26 <Grasshopper> not unusual for a speed and multi-conduct runner 
19:26 <K2> it all depends on what Mandevil determines what a scummed game is
19:26 <K2> usually quit/escape within a low number of turns
19:26 -!- zombifier has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
19:26 <aosdict> I was trying to work out some criteria for other scummed games
19:26 <hothraxxa> anyway, no matter what the scoreboard shows, we all know elenmirie is a superb player
19:26 <K2> yup
19:26 <aosdict> things like deaths to a water moccasin or demon
19:26 <K2> % of wins shouldnt be the indicator anyways
19:27 <K2> z-score is a bit closer to the truth
19:27 -!- mariari has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
19:27 <K2> that plus conducts for each win
19:27 <hothraxxa> a bit
19:27 <aosdict> *could* be bones, could be a new player not knowing not to drink fountains, but the vast majority are people hoping for a wish
19:27 <hothraxxa> or just dipping to dilute potions
19:27 <Grasshopper> quaffing in the hope of a wish shouldn't count as scumming surely?
19:28 <hothraxxa> almost always the way i get a demon
19:28 <K2> you want a better indicator of player skill, look at the over z-score list
19:28 <aosdict> hothraxxa: right, that plus low turncount
19:28 <Grasshopper> not far off, but anyway technicalities
19:28 <aosdict> probably don't need to dilute stuff by T:100
19:29 <K2> hmm just found a minor bug on scoreboard
19:29 <hothraxxa> k2: i forgot to mentoin, it hasn't picked up[ my slex death last night
19:29 <K2> what hasnt? the hdf scoreboard?
19:29 <hothraxxa> yeah
19:29 * K2 goes to look
19:30 <Ether_> butchery or cook a corpse?
19:31 <hothraxxa> in nethack you eat corpses, but some might be bad for you
19:31 <hothraxxa> you can also sacrifice them or tin them
19:31 <K2> hmm
19:31 <K2> nothing recorded since the 8th
19:31 <K2> thats not right
19:32 <hothraxxa> for just slex?
19:32 <K2> checking
19:32 <K2> the scoreboard log service failed to start from last server maintenance reboot
19:33 <hothraxxa> which reminds me, i have a sick laptop i need to attend to
19:33 <K2> gah its not starting... hmm
19:34 <K2> i see
19:34 <K2> there's a hybrid in slex that's more than 4 char long
19:34 <K2> abbreviation
19:34 <K2> dbase didnt like that
19:34 <Grasshopper> I saw something similar happen a month or so ago, scoreboard not updating
19:35 <K2> easy fix
19:35 <K2> all the other services are running
19:36 <K2> for other scoreboards
19:36 <K2> hmm
19:36 <K2> i'll prob make the field be 8 char long that should suffice
19:38 <K2> there we go
19:38 <K2> and there it is hothraxxa
19:38 <hothraxxa> thanks
19:38 <K2> no thank you
19:39 <K2> takes a village ;)
19:39 <hothraxxa> i ate many elf and elf-type things in that game and never did get sleep resistance
19:39 <hothraxxa> elves
19:39 <hothraxxa> many elves
19:40 <aosdict> elves elves elves
19:40 <K2> i hate that
19:40 <Ether_> You hear someone counting money. (((shekels)))
19:41 <K2> that means there's a hidden gold vault on that level
19:42 <Grasshopper> most noobs think "counting money" means a shopkeeper but no....
19:42 <Grasshopper> including myself (I was a noob once)
19:43 <Ether_> The wand hits the hobbit!  The hobbit is killed!   
19:43 <Ether_> probably was that one
19:43 <Grasshopper> all they ever talk about is the one ring
19:43 <Ether_> also I found an statue of a hobbit
19:43 <Grasshopper> bite the finger off
19:44 <Grasshopper> sorry, kidding
19:44 <aosdict> The wand hits the statue of a hobbit! The statue of a hobbit is killed!
19:44 <Grasshopper> I get a bit silly sometimes
19:44 <hothraxxa> aosdict: that could happen in slex, where even the dogs zap you with wands of punishment
19:44 <Ether_> This hobbit corpse tastes terrible!  You stop eating.  
19:44 <Grasshopper> !rng go do the invocation | faff around a bit more and waste time
19:44 <Beholder> Grasshopper: go do the invocation
19:45 <aosdict> biting hobbits' fingers off has a 100% statistical success rate of getting you dropped into lava
19:45 <Grasshopper> damn, knew you'd say that
19:45 <Ether_> Welp I eat the hobbit
19:45 <Grasshopper> hobbit pie.... yum
19:45 <hothraxxa> hobbits are tasty but not too filling
19:46 <Grasshopper> are you sure it wasn't hobbit dressed as lamb?
19:46 <aosdict> "This hobbit finger tastes delicious!  E - a gold ring.  A Crack of Doom opens up under you!  You fall into the lava. You sink into the lava!  You die..."
19:46 <Ether_> You hear someone cursing shoplifters. 
19:46 <Grasshopper> aosdict: can you survive if levitating/flying?
19:47 <Grasshopper> that is def a shop
19:47 <aosdict> Gollum (Rog Hob Mal Cha), T:2530432, killed by molten lava, having saved Middle-earth
19:49 <Ether_> ok I turned into rocks that statue, the wiki says something about using as missiles
19:50 <aosdict> Ether_: throwing rocks is a ranged attack, I guess, but it's generally not worth it
19:50 <aosdict> they do little damage and are heavy
19:50 <aosdict> only worth it if you're a caveman
19:51 <K2> alright i need to crash
19:51 <K2> see you all
19:51 * aosdict gives K2 a ring of levitation and a kitchen sink
19:52 <FIQ> aosdict: I think if a monster can't find water on land
19:53 <FIQ> and wants to move into water
19:53 <FIQ> they move randomly
19:53 <FIQ> Not sure though
19:53 <Ether_> I eated triple rations: Dog fog, what
19:53 <aosdict> that's a _tripe_ ration
19:53 <aosdict> not triple
19:54 <jonadab> Ether_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripe
19:54 <Ether_> aw shit
19:54 <jonadab> You can eat it if you're an orc.
19:54 <Ether_> but I spawned with those!
19:55 <jonadab> Ether_: They're good for feeding to pets.
19:55 <jonadab> Especially dogs and cats.
19:55 <jonadab> This has various uses.
19:55 <Ether_> so you should eat the corpses
19:55 <jonadab> Ether_: Only eat corpses when they're fresh.
19:55 <jonadab> Also, be prepared to learn _which_ corpses are A) safe and B) worthwhile to eat.
19:56 <Ether_> eating a whole hobbit was not enough apparently
19:56 <jonadab> According to the wiki, a hobbit is worth 200 Calories, which is not bad.
19:56 <FIQ> jonadab: Ether is playing fiqhack
19:56 <jonadab> A food ration is 800.
19:56 <jonadab> FIQ: Oh, FIQHack.
19:57 <jonadab> Hmm.
19:57 <FIQ> so the game will warn him
19:57 <jonadab> Ah, right.
19:57 <FIQ> for food that is a bad idea to eat
19:57 <jonadab> True.
19:57 <jonadab> Still important to learn which corpses are worth eating for reasons other than hunger, though.
19:57 <aosdict> Ether_: you're also not eating the entire corpse, just the good bits
19:57 <FIQ> use whatis
19:58 <FIQ> /
19:58 <FIQ> then hobbit corpse
19:58 <FIQ> or similar
19:58 <FIQ> hm
19:59 <FIQ> apparently any corpse just returns the entry for corpse
19:59 <jonadab> Yeah, you'd want to look up the monster, if you want monster-specific info.
19:59 <bug_sniper> !8ball should tripe rations be renamed to haggis rations?
19:59 <Beholder> bug_sniper: Without a doubt
19:59 <FIQ> jonadab: did you change xp formula?
19:59 <jonadab> bug_sniper: Heh.
20:00 <jonadab> FIQ: I changed the XP->XL formula, if that's what you mean.
20:00 <FIQ> yes
20:00 <Ether_> w - a scroll labeled NR 9.  A bear trap closes on your foot!
20:00 <Ether_> lmao
20:00 <FIQ> https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Experience_level#Experience_points_required_per_level
20:00 <FIQ> it should be here
20:01 <bug_sniper> !8ball will it actually happen anywhere?
20:01 <Beholder> bug_sniper: Signs point to yes
20:02 <jonadab> fruitname: haggis ration
20:02 <aosdict> bug_sniper: slex probably has a Scotsman role which renames it to haggis
20:02 <jonadab> YASI for tripe: ^
20:02 <FIQ> hm, interesting
20:03 <FIQ> apparently nethackwiki has, in aosdict's userspace, a comprehensive, variant-agnostic, IRC YANI database
20:04 <aosdict> yes
20:04 <bug_sniper> yeah, I could ask for one
20:04 <aosdict> so please mark your shiny new ideas with "yani" or "yasi"
20:04 <FIQ> https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Phol_ende_wodan/YANI#YANIs_from_IRC
20:05 <bug_sniper> with bugles renamed to bagpipes and booze renamed to whiskey
20:05 <aosdict> I'm probably going to have to break that page up into the IRC ones and the non-IRC ones... 
20:05 <FIQ> Add a high level monster spell "raise dead", which resurrects nearby corpses as hostile monsters.
20:05 <FIQ> dnethack has this
20:05 <aosdict> was it in there before 3.15.1?
20:06 <FIQ> yes
20:06 <aosdict> I'm not going to cross-check everything against variants that may or may not already have it :P
20:06 <FIQ> pff
20:07 <aosdict> yasi: add a high level monster spell "raisse dead", which resurrects nearby corpses into raisse
20:07 <FIQ> hah
20:09 <FIQ> jonadab: a roditaur would be a cross of a rodent and a bull
20:12 <Beholder> [slex] greqrg (Bin Rog Mal Law), 48 points, T:160, killed by a monster (small turret)
20:13 <jonadab> Hmm, YANI: is there a reason rust monsters and disenchanters aren't quadrupeds?
20:13 <aosdict> Rust monsters are in D&D, from what I remember.
20:13 <aosdict> are quadrupeds in D&D*
20:13 <Ether_> You feel that eating the kitten was a bad idea.  You feel attractive! 
20:14 <FIQ> I should probably change that message
20:15 <jonadab> Ether_: The fact that those messags occurred back-to-back may be a coincidence.
20:15 <FIQ> No it's not
20:15 <jonadab> It's really two distinct messages.
20:15 <jonadab> FIQ: Oh?
20:15 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20:15 <FIQ> It means you acquired intrinsic aggravate monster
20:15 <jonadab> Ah.
20:15 <jonadab> I see.
20:15 <jonadab> I assumed it was charisma gain.
20:15 <FIQ> Charisma can't be exercised
20:15 <FIQ> and "You feel charismatic!" is the charisma gain msg
20:16 <aosdict> yani: negative messages like that have ... punctuation instead of !
20:16 <aosdict> You feel attractive...
20:17 <jonadab> Hmm.  "You feel as if you are being watched" perhaps?
20:17 <FIQ>     {AGGRAVATE_MONSTER, "You feel attractive!", "attractive",
20:17 <FIQ>      "You feel less attractive.", "less attractive"},
20:18 <aosdict> Isn't "You feel as if you are being watched" already a message?
20:18 <jonadab> Oh, is it?
20:18 <aosdict> I thought it was a harassment flavor message but apparently not
20:18 <jonadab> Too bad dgl doesn't have a way to notify the game when somene is watching you, it could be added for that :-)
20:18 <aosdict> Oh, abandoned temple. That's it.
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20:19 <FIQ> that's You feel like you are being watched.
20:19 <jonadab> Ah.
20:19 <aosdict> "like", "as if", not much difference
20:19 <FIQ> aosdict: IMO still better than the previous msg
20:19 <jonadab> We could also add "You feel as though you are being watched."  One for abandoned temple, one for dgl watching, one for aggravate monster :-)
20:20 <FIQ> what about "You feel watched"?
20:20 <jonadab> Or that, sure.
20:20 <jonadab> Or "You feel observed."  "You feel conspicuous."
20:20 <Beholder> [fh] Bork Fogg (Ether) (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 24613 points, T:1515, killed by a goblin
20:20 <Ether_> fug
20:21 <Ether_> fail to cast healing
20:21 <FIQ> !tell K2 pushed minor fh fix
20:21 <Beholder> Will do, FIQ!
20:22 <Beholder> [slex] greqrg (Jes Nag Fem Cha), 24 points, T:121, killed by a monster (large mimic)
20:22 <FIQ> hmm
20:23 <FIQ> one of the YANIs in the doc is "bump displacement up to MC2" (it's MC1 in 36x)
20:23 <FIQ> fiqhack actually swaps MC of MR and displacement
20:23 <FIQ> so MR is MC2, displacement MC3
20:24 <Ether_> the server score logging is not inside the downloaded versions?
20:24 <jonadab> Ether_: ?
20:25 <FIQ> Ether_: hdf and asc are running local versions of NH4 games
20:25 <jonadab> Do you mean the high score file, the xlogfile, the livelog file, or what?
20:25 <FIQ> there's no online server with score or similar
20:25 <FIQ> well there is https://scoreboard.xd.cm/
20:25 <FIQ> that tracks games done on various servers
20:25 <FIQ> but it's not affected by local play
20:26 <jonadab> Well, no, obviously, it couldn't be.
20:26 <jonadab> Local play is local.
20:26 <FIQ> jonadab: several games have online scoreboards and have local games upload to them
20:26 <FIQ> nethack isn't one of them
20:27 <jonadab> That would be...  
20:27 <jonadab> How on earth would they be authenticated?
20:27 <jonadab> DRM up the royal wazootie and pray nobody can reverse-engineer it?
20:27 <FIQ> jonadab: well it generally doesn't happen with open source games
20:27 <jonadab> I should guess not.
20:28 <FIQ> Ether_: consider a different terminal if alt-tab kills the server session
20:28 <FIQ> that sounds like something a "smart"phone application would do
20:29 <Ether_> Already tested Guake, gnome (default ) and both freeze the game when I al tab for some minutes
20:29 <Ether_> For avoid that I should go back to play "quick"
20:29 <FIQ> sounds like you're on some flaky connection
20:30 <Ether_> perhaps
20:30 <FIQ> probably has nothing to do with the terminal or the game
20:30 <jonadab> gnome-terminal used to be decent, but the general trend is for all Gnome things to get worse over time.
20:30 <FIQ> I used to be on a connection that had an annoying habit of dropping the connection if it was stale for a while
20:30 <FIQ> jonadab: right, but it shouldn't be relevant at all here
20:30 <Ether_> The router is a big weak to pierce walls, and my brother is watching Dota streaming
20:30 <jonadab> FIQ: True.
20:30 <FIQ> I've used recent gnome-terminals fine w/o issues
20:31 * aosdict has been using gnome-terminal for months, no complaints
20:31 <Ether_> I dunno if the shells mess something too
20:32 * jonadab is actually using gnome-terminal right now... but it's version 2.21.90.
20:32 <jonadab> Ether_: Maybe the ssh settings?  I mean, it should be able to do keep alive.
20:32 <Ether_> jonadab but I use different shells
20:32 <jonadab> The shell is probably not relevant.
20:32 <jonadab> Unless it's extremely exotic.
20:33 <jonadab> If it's just bash/ash/dash/ksh/zsh/csh/tcsh/etc., then it shouldn't matter.
20:33 <Ether_> I dunno, I never mess dirrectly with that unless I changed something without knowing (Iam a linux noob)
20:33 <jonadab> The shell is probably just bash.
20:33 <jonadab> And irrelevant.
20:33 <Ether_> zsh, fish
20:34 <Ether_> I use fish on the guake terminal, zsh on gnome
20:34 <jonadab> It would theoretically be possible for a shell to suspend processes when it detects that the terminal window it's running in doesn't have focus.  But that would be grade-AAA weird.
20:35 <Ether_> right now the gnome terminal died, cause I was chatting with you
20:35 <jonadab> Probably just a flaky connection.
20:37 <aosdict> Gnome terminal should not shut itself off unless you tell it to.
20:37 <Ether_> I mean "its not shut down" the game freeze
20:37 <Ether_> just that
20:37 <jonadab> aosdict: some terminals close if the foreground process dies under conditions other than normal exit.
20:38 <Ether_> them How I can avoid it?
20:39 <jonadab> Dunno.
20:39 <jonadab> What happens if you run your ssh or irssi or whatever inside screen or tmux?
20:40 <Ether_> Well them I should stick to the client
20:40 <Ether_> what happens? nothing weird 
20:41 <Ether_> just the game
20:41 <aosdict> jonadab: when writing code for Fourk, how strictly do you follow the NGPL provision that you have to mark every change with the date in the source file?
20:42 <Ether_> I think it show something about the fingerprint but was only in the first run
20:43 <jonadab> aosdict: As long as I'm only releasing a git repository, I consider git blame to have that covered in spades, at least in spirit.
20:43 <jonadab> aosdict: If I were going to do a tarball release, I would have to work out some way of automatically updating all the timestamps in the files for the tarball.
20:44 <aosdict> yeah that makes sense
20:44 <jonadab> (Which would have to be done on a never-to-be-merged branch, because actually changing the dates in the files causes merge conflicts in every single file every single time you merge.)
20:44 <aosdict> maybe that's why we didn't get any variants till git started to take off
20:45 <FIQ> jonadab: but..
20:45 <lorimer> Opinion /ex cathedra/: Please do not shit up the source code with extra comment lines of dates and initials and crap
20:45 <FIQ> there is a git hook that takes care of that already
20:45 <FIQ> for NH4
20:45 <aosdict> that and 3.4.3 of course
20:45 <jonadab> FIQ: No, there's not, and the git people say it's not _possible_ to do that with a git hook.
20:45 <FIQ> what
20:46 <jonadab> I asked.
20:46 <FIQ> uhh
20:46 <jonadab> There's no way to get git to automatically resolve the first-line-comment merge conflicts you get if you actually update those comments every time.
20:46 <FIQ> oh you mean that
20:46 <FIQ> sure
20:46 <FIQ> but I mean
20:46 <FIQ> there is a git hook that takes care of the datestamps
20:46 <jonadab> Which is every single file, every time you merge.
20:47 <jonadab> So actually using that git hook would condemn me to a "use only one branch and never merge anything ever" model of development.
20:47 <jonadab> aosdict: There were numerous variants pre-git.
20:48 <jonadab> Slash'EM, SporkHack, GruntHack, acehack
20:48 <jonadab> Most have since had their repositories converted, if they're still active.
20:48 <jonadab> Though isn't there one variant still on DARCS?
20:49 <aosdict> Forgot about SLASH'EM, but the others are all post-git, if not using it from the get-go
20:51 <jonadab> Ok, git _existed_.
20:51 <jonadab> But nobody in the NetHack community had adopted it yet.
20:56 <mariari> Git is nice 
21:00 <Ether_> So what is the hack with most features?
21:00 <aosdict> slash'em extended
21:00 <mariari> Slex I think 
21:00 <mariari> Slex is awesome 
21:00 <mariari> And evil 
21:00 <mariari> And awesome 
21:00 <mariari> BTW I'm nymphet number for 
21:00 <mariari> Number 3
21:01 <mariari> I lose my themeing bonus 
21:01 <Ether_> is fig a branch of Slashen?
21:01 <FIQ> not even close
21:02 <mariari> The only branch which has much less stuff is slash them 
21:02 <FIQ> they're pretty much as far apart as they possibly can
21:02 <mariari> Which is based off of slex 
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21:19 <jonadab> Ether_: FIQHack is a fork of NetHack4.
21:19 <jonadab> It's about as far away from Slash'EM as it's possible to get.
21:19 <jonadab> (While still being a NetHack variant.)
21:20 <jonadab> FIQHack is derived from NH4, which is derived from NitroHack and AceHack, both of which are derived from NetHack 3.4.3.
21:21 <jonadab> Slash'EM Extended is derived from Slash'EM (obiously), which is derived from Slash and the Wizard Patch, both of which are derived from somewhat older versions of NetHack (2.x, I think?)
21:21 <Ether_> I trying to compile a SlashTHEM 
21:21 <Ether_> the wiki says is a more moded version
21:22 <jonadab> You can think of SlashThem as being somewhere in between Slash'EM and Slash"EM Extended.
21:23 <aosdict> SlashTHEM is less modded then Slash'EM Extended
21:23 <jonadab> It's no longer actively maintained, though.
21:23 <aosdict> deliberately
21:23 <jonadab> SlashTHEM attempted to add a modicum of discernment that Extended lacks.
21:24 <jonadab> Though not so much discernment as to get away from the basic Slash'EM approach, which is "Let's add more cool stuff."
21:39 <Ether_> This mondongo soup is nice
21:48 <FIQ> Ether_: I recommend SLASH'EM over SLASH'THEM
21:48 <FIQ> slash'them is buggy
21:48 <FIQ> and no longer supported
21:49 <Ether_> oh ok
21:55 -!- mariari has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
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21:56 <FIQ> I mean
21:57 <FIQ> slash'em development is halted too
21:57 <FIQ> but it's far less buggy
21:57 <FIQ> if you want an actively developed variant that has similar goals, try dnethack
22:10 <Chris_ANG> (If on linux, use dNAO, not dnethack)
22:13 <bug_sniper> I've seen one bug in slashem when I killed the vault guard in the vault, but that doesn't happen a lot
22:29 -!- AndChat-153225 has joined #hardfought
22:33 -!- mariari has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
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22:36 <nymphet> okay I'm back
22:43 <greqrg> Welcome back
22:46 <nymphet> thanks
22:48 <nymphet> I feel like amy put in the lag trap in this game
22:49 <nymphet> it might be the wait 10 seconds before pressing the button
22:54 <aosdict> so this is annoying
22:54 <aosdict> if you decide to include math.h in nethack it doesn't work
22:54 <aosdict> because some math library defines a macro "yn" at some point
22:54 <aosdict> and nethack also defines it
22:55 <nymphet> can you include but then don't include that macro?
22:55 <aosdict> who knows, generally it's not a good idea to mess with libraries though
22:56 <nymphet> well I mean during import
22:56 <nymphet> does C not have this feature
22:56 <nymphet> if that fails, grab your own yn and modify it so yh doesn't get defined out
22:56 <aosdict> I guess one could #undef yn after including math.h
22:57 <aosdict> or, before it, since hack.h's gets there first
22:57 <aosdict> probably the better thing to do is replace the forty or so instances of yn in the code with a renamed version
23:04 <nymphet> dead :(
23:04 <nymphet> that's weird about scoping on C, aosdict 
23:05 <nymphet> CommonLisp handles these types of issues very well (esp for how old it is)
23:05 <nymphet> though namespacing is garbo
23:05 <nymphet> (at least compared to more modern attempts)
23:05 <aosdict> it might be because nethack 3.x is K&R C? Not sure
23:05 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Cam Ang Fem Cha), 1440 points, T:1114, killed by a monster (magic dragon)
23:06 <bug_sniper> !dump dolores
23:06 <bug_sniper> !commands
23:06 <Beholder> bug_sniper: available commands are !help !ping !time !pom !hello !booze !beer !potion !tea !coffee !whiskey !vodka !rum !tequila !scotch !goat !lotg !d(1-1000) !(1-50)d(1-1000) !8ball !rng !role !race !variant !tell !source !lastgame !lastasc !streak !rcedit !scores !sb !setmintc !whereis !players !who !commands
23:08 <bug_sniper> !!log
23:08 <bug_sniper> !log
23:08 <bug_sniper> !dump
23:08 <nymphet> bug_sniper: 
23:08 <nymphet> !lastgame dolores
23:08 <Beholder> nymphet: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dolores/slex/dumplog/1502591888.slex.txt
23:08 <aosdict> !lotg
23:08 <Beholder> May the Luck of the Grasshopper be with you always, aosdict!
23:08 <bug_sniper> thanks
23:10 <bug_sniper> nymphet, not liking amnesiacs?
23:10 <nymphet> what do you mean?
23:10 <bug_sniper> the camperstriker challenge was to play with an amnesiac race
23:10 <nymphet> I play camperstriker for fun
23:11 <nymphet> the problem is ironman
23:11 <nymphet> ironman is scary
23:11 <nymphet> I would much rather kuwa challenge
23:11 <nymphet> by faaaaaaaar
23:11 <nymphet> it's a lot easier to deal wtih
23:11 <nymphet> with*
23:13 <nymphet> also camperstriker is nice
23:13 <nymphet> when I can cheese the starting equipment
23:15 <nymphet> jesus
23:15 <nymphet> dead
23:15 <nymphet> fuck
23:15 <nymphet> the only problem with kuwa is the map starts too look like this but with less defined colors
23:15 <nymphet> https://puu.sh/x8JLp/4d5a26c6b9.png
23:15 <nymphet> making it very hard to understand
23:16 <nymphet> since , and . are so common
23:16 <nymphet> maybe when I play kuwa I make , into #'s
23:16 <nymphet> it would probably make the challenge easier
23:17 <Beholder> [slex] bugsniper (Elp Elf Mal Cha), 28 points, T:118, killed by a monster (fat bat)
23:17 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Cam Ang Fem Cha), 678 points, T:383, killed by a monster (gazer larva)
23:17 <nymphet> lol
23:18 <aosdict> together in death
23:18 <nymphet> death did us part
23:19 <nymphet> also it seems in slex food on a normal run seems to not be a big problem
23:19 <nymphet> so much perma food normally
23:20 <aosdict> vanilla is often like that too
23:20 <nymphet> is it?
23:20 <aosdict> enough corpses to keep you going when there _isn't_ a ton of permafood all over the ground
23:20 <nymphet> I've just noticed in the early game I'm always hungry
23:20 <nymphet> then again I don't play much vanilla
23:21 <nymphet> that's good to know though
23:21 <aosdict> it depends on your personal exploration speed too
23:21 <aosdict> if you backtrack and wait for your pet a lot, yeah, you'll get hungry
23:21 <aosdict> but once you hit soko, there's no excuse
23:21 <nymphet> okay
23:32 <aosdict> okay, changing all the yn to ynn (this particular prompt defaults to n) seemed to work \o/
23:32 <nymphet> congrats!
23:38 <Ether_> The little dog picks up a scroll {1}.  The little dog reads a scroll of healing {1}!  The little dog looks better.
23:38 <Ether_> what
23:39 <aosdict> that's one thing I don't get about fiqhack, how it manages to strike a balance between monsters picking up and using items and letting the player find enough loot on the ground
23:40 <nymphet> lol
23:41 <nymphet> I have soooo many bullets
23:41 <nymphet> and they are uncursed :)
23:42 <Ether_> Aos is not fiqhack
23:42 <Ether_> It´s Slash extended
23:42 <nymphet> fuck gray spores
23:42 <nymphet> can make you deathy sick if you dare attack it
23:42 <aosdict> I still am wondering that about fiqhack
23:43 <aosdict> As a general rule, I don't wonder anything about Slash'EM Extended
23:43 <nymphet> really?
23:43 <nymphet> do you just assume?
23:44 <aosdict> Well, in the first place, trying to figure out how slex manages to strike a balance between anything is pointless
23:44 <nymphet> do you think it's widely unbalanced?
23:44 <aosdict> ...yes?
23:45 <nymphet> I would agree some aspects of it is quit imbalanced
23:45 <nymphet> I wouldn't know where to start with balance of the game, however
23:45 <aosdict> the stated goal of Amy is to add anything and everything she can think of into the game with no such petty concern as balance
23:46 <nymphet> that would allow for quicker of adding
23:46 <nymphet> you can always make a cae if something should be harder
23:46 <nymphet> or if a certain subset should be buffed
23:46 <nymphet> she might take kindly to those ideas
23:47 <aosdict> I'm fine letting slex exist the way it is.
23:47 <aosdict> I also don't really care to play enough of it to make a case about anything in it
23:47 <nymphet> haha
23:47 <nymphet> I think the monster UGOD she added in 2.0.1 is ridic
23:50 <nymphet> I can't wait for the new break save patch
23:50 <nymphet> I rather enjoy the stream of more things
23:50 <nymphet> I'm like a child in that regard
23:50 <Ether_> but I like more till now the Fiq controls
23:51 <aosdict> that's another thing I don't get about many variant developers, how do they have the time to develop stuff this consistently?
23:51 <aosdict> well, I guess "many" = FIQ and Amy
23:52 <nymphet> lol
23:52 <nymphet> Amy really likes her game an devotes freetime to it
23:52 <oh6> \
23:52 <nymphet> I know that much
23:52 <nymphet> idk about FIQ
23:52 <aosdict> the devteam certainly doesn't put time in every day, and dnethack and fourk go at a more reasonable pace
23:53 <nymphet> how often do they get updates?
23:53 <aosdict> dnethack had one recently. don't know when the last fourk one was.
23:54 <nymphet> Maybe once every few months?
23:54 <nymphet> god that girl was op
23:55 <Beholder> [slex] bugsniper (Elp Elf Fem Neu), 1316 points, T:1463, quit
23:55 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Cam Ang Fem Cha), 2370 points, T:2220, killed by a monster (odorous girl)
23:55 <nymphet> lol
23:55 <nymphet> again we die together
23:55 <nymphet> death did us part again!
23:55 <aosdict> meanwhile, since I started logging this channel last month, I've received 19 messages that are just "<K2> FIQhack updated"
23:55 <nymphet> ahhaha
23:55 <nymphet> I've seen it quite a bit myself
23:55 <nymphet> and I've been here less than a week
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23:56 <aosdict> anyway, have to go now
23:56 -!- mariari has quit [Client Quit]
23:58 <nymphet> cya
23:58 <nymphet> have a nice night
23:59 <nymphet> I think I've had enough camperstriker for one night
23:59 <lorimer> tl;dr about variant time: when i was active with spork i put 3 hours in on each of saturday/sunday morning actively coding, and the rest of the week was discussion/thought
23:59 <lorimer> but you can get a lot done when you know what you're headed towards.
00:00 <nymphet> I bet!
00:00 <nymphet> that sounds rather comfy
00:10 <bug_sniper> how do you change your alternate weapon?
00:11 <nymphet>  x
00:11 <nymphet> bug_sniper: als
00:11 <nymphet> also I found the most op class
00:11 <nymphet> holy shit it's amazing
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00:13 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ
00:17 <bug_sniper> is it possible to change your alternate weapon without switching to it?
00:22 -!- zombifier has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:31 <oh6> by golly I'm caught up on scrollback
00:32 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
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02:00 <nymphet> K2: I got another segfault
02:02 <bug_sniper> nymphet, is it the good kind or the bad kind?
02:02 <nymphet> bad kind
02:02 <nymphet> thankfully
02:03 <nymphet> my save is okay
02:03 <nymphet> I would of been pissed
02:03 <nymphet> I'm going to get #1 with this save
02:04 <bug_sniper> maybe we need a separate highscore table for haxors
02:05 <nymphet> lol
02:05 <nymphet> why
02:05 <nymphet> Not playing a haxxor
02:05 <bug_sniper> because that's how I got all the way to gehennom during junethack
02:05 <nymphet> lol
02:05 <nymphet> relaly?
02:05 <bug_sniper> yeah, and then I got killed by reading a cursed book
02:06 <nymphet> :(
02:06 <nymphet> that can happen?
02:06 <bug_sniper> people were counting on me to ascend in there
02:06 -!- FIQ has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]
02:07 <nymphet> that just sounds sad
02:07 <bug_sniper> well, at least dgamelaunch can't segfault
02:07 <nymphet> ascend on slex?
02:07 <bug_sniper> yes
02:07 <nymphet> damn
02:07 <nymphet> you got close
02:07 <nymphet> poor you
02:07 <bug_sniper> I'd call it the halfway point
02:08 <nymphet> congrats on making it that far
02:08 <bug_sniper> yeah, thanks
02:09 <bug_sniper> only amy has ever actually ascended
02:09 <nymphet> I know
02:09 <nymphet> 2 people got close
02:09 <nymphet> 1 got to the astrla plane
02:09 <nymphet> and 1 has died on the amulet run
02:10 <nymphet> the mimic room is teidous
02:14 <nymphet> wtf
02:14 <nymphet> beh
02:14 <nymphet> where is beh
02:15 <nymphet> I guess I hit my quest?
02:15 <nymphet> yup!
02:17 <nymphet> quite scary!
02:17 <nymphet> https://puu.sh/x8PKX/aa8380995c.png
02:18 <nymphet> lol
02:18 <nymphet> rading that scroll seg faults me
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02:25 <nymphet> fuck
02:26 <nymphet> yes
02:26 <nymphet> a fighting chance!
02:30 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Nec Ang Fem Cha), 105888 points, T:8633, killed by an icy touch
02:30 <nymphet> aaaaaaaaaa
02:31 <bug_sniper> !lastgame dolores
02:31 <Beholder> bug_sniper: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dolores/slex/dumplog/1502596956.slex.txt
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