04:24 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Wil Hom Fem Cha), 147 points, T:579, killed by a monster (wight)
04:37 <bhaak> so the ascension run was all new for you. you're welcome :-)
04:39 <LarienTelrunya> Cthulhu is yet another of the "nasty puzzle with only few working solutions to weed out all non-optimally-equipped chars" things, but thankfully not as evil as a certain elder priest
04:47 <bhaak> it's the end boss. I think that one is allowed to be special
04:47 <LarienTelrunya> what? the end bosses are the riders and Rodney :D
04:48 <bhaak> the end boss of the gehennom level :)
04:49 <LarienTelrunya> wandless should be a conduct, then Cthulhu would be even more dangerous unless you can cast finger of death
04:49 <LarienTelrunya> Evil Patch idea: wandless conduct, in an environment where random conducts can be forced upon your character.
04:51 <LarienTelrunya> also aosdicthack when :D I think it could be an interesting variant
06:35 <LarienTelrunya> Evil Patch idea: in addition to Rodney, also Vlad and your quest nemesis can resurrect after death and appear next to you, and they also gain a level every time. And all of their attacks get an extra damage dice with every such added level.
06:40 <LarienTelrunya> Evil Patch idea: the mysterious force has a chance of teleporting random items from your inventory 1-3 levels down.
06:51 <LarienTelrunya> Super Evil Patch idea: you cannot leave the sanctum in dnethack unless you manage to kill the elder priest permanently. Killing him in a way that allows him to resurrect does not help. (Does the "fill the level with blue jellies" trick still work?)
06:55 <LarienTelrunya> Evil Patch idea: if your amulet of life saving activates, it regenerates the entire dungeon and also removes all your other equipment and gives you only what you usually start with. Any MacGuffins that you had obtained will have to be obtained all over again. And on the Astral Plane, the amulet causes you to "go to heaven prematurely" - you don't die, but the game is still over.
07:00 <LarienTelrunya> "aosdict  > Evil Patch Idea: demon lords can steal the Amulet from you, and when they have it, they'll warp to the downstairs to heal instead of the upstairs. If they get too damaged, they'll flee downstairs." - how about making them beeline to any downstair they find and automatically use it whenever possible, not only when damaged?
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07:20 <FIQ> K2: K2 why did you diverge from the true path
07:30 <Beholder> [dyn] groovejumper (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 2102 points, T:2463, killed by a Keystone Kop
07:47 <jonadab> !tell LarienTelrunya If you think forcing _wandless_ conduct on a player would be evil, bear in mind that Fourk tracks things like tool-less, non-use of jewelry and accessories (which includes blindfolds), nudist, reflectionless, and potionless.  Imagine being forced to keep all those!
07:47 <Beholder> Will do, jonadab!
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08:30 <aosdict> !tell LarienTelrunya "aosdicthack" is a terrible name for anything ever
08:30 <Beholder> Will do, aosdict!
08:32 <Beholder> [fh] Staffus (Tomthetom) (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 37157 points, T:1975, killed by a horse
08:36 <jonadab> Eh, could be worse, it could be called PholendewodanHack.
08:36 <aosdict> yasi: add a "corpse swinging" skill, which increases your odds of hitting stuff with a wielded corpse. Only Cavemen can get skill in it.
08:36 <jonadab> Heh.
08:37 <aosdict> that was just a name I read off the scroll list
08:38 <jonadab> Oh, I didn't recognize it.  Haven't played that much 3.6
08:45 <aosdict> jonadab: have you given any thought to the implications of twoweapon = slanted to melee only?
08:45 <jonadab> I think my biggest concern with it is that Samurai is clearly intended to have ranged options.
08:46 <jonadab> But that may not be an insurmountable problem.
08:46 <jonadab> For one thing, using the yumi already requires switching weapons.
08:46 <jonadab> So unless we make switching weapons cost a turn, this is not really worse for them.
08:47 <aosdict> Yeah, Samurai shouldn't be railroaded into twoweaponing as a fighting style either
08:47 <jonadab> Well, ok, it is if they're using throwing stars, but in vanilla there aren't enough of those to allow any player to really use them significantly.
08:47 <aosdict> but you can change up fighting styles easily enough _between_ battles
08:47 <jonadab> (Fourk adds some, depending on role, e.g., to the quest.)
08:47 <aosdict> Samurai get tons of shuriken on the quest.
08:47 <jonadab> Oh, do they in 3.6 now?
08:47 <jonadab> THat's new.
08:47 <jonadab> And a positive change.
08:47 <aosdict> It is?
08:48 <jonadab> Yeah, didn't happen in 3.4.3.
08:48 <aosdict> Didn't all the shuriken wielding ninja exist in 3.4?
08:48 <jonadab> The ninja existed.
08:48 <jonadab> Wait, aren't those the friendlies?  Maybe I just never noticed their gear.
08:48 <jonadab> Because they're peaceful.
08:48 <aosdict> No, they're hostile
08:49 <jonadab> Oh.
08:49 <jonadab> Then no, they didn't carry shuriken in 3.4
08:50 <aosdict> I was going to make starting or stopping twoweaponing cost a turn, though
08:50 <aosdict> So you can't just wield a bow and start shooting arrows instantly
08:50 <jonadab> It did in 3.4, not sure about 3.6
08:50 <jonadab> It doesn't in NH4 and won't, because of a combination of the InterHack principle and not wanting to encourage players to fiddle endlessly with turning options on and off for tactical purposes.
08:52 <aosdict> Well yeah, this is a conundrum about having varying fighting styles
08:53 <aosdict> If it's easy to switch weapons around, what's the point of making throwing/launchers/melee weapons distinct?
08:54 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles] by ChanServ
08:55 <jonadab> Well, you still have to carry every weapon you want to use, and spend skill points on it.
08:55 <jonadab> And practice.
08:55 <jonadab> If skill points are scarce enough to matter, that becomes relevant.
08:56 <jonadab> Practice is already relevant, players often don't want to invest the effort into training up weapons they have only marginal uses for.
08:56 <aosdict> If skill points are going to be made more scarce, there has to be a better mechanism for redistributing them than draining yourself
08:57 <jonadab> Oh, I don't think draining yourself should work either.
08:57 <aosdict> Not a cheap mechanism, but it should exist.
08:57 <jonadab> I think once you invest a skill point, it should be stuck.
08:57 <jonadab> That way it's a meaningful choice.
08:57 <aosdict> Actually 3.6 might do that.
08:57 <jonadab> If you get drained and lose the skill, the game should remember that and give you the skill back if you regain the level.
08:58 <aosdict> Yeah I think 3.6 does this
08:58 <jonadab> The whole point of _having_ skill points is so that the player has to make decisions about where to invest them.  And these decisions are only meaningful if they have ongoing implications.
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08:59 <aosdict> On the other hand, it's frustrating if you're a tourist who hasn't found anything better than a flail and doesn't want to spend a valuable skill point on it, even just to bring it to Basic.
09:02 <aosdict> So your solution to make twoweaponing be a tradeoff is to make it difficult to get enough skill points to train both your main weapon, your twoweapon skill, AND something else
09:02 <aosdict> ?
09:04 <jonadab> Maybe?
09:04 <jonadab> I also think two-handed weapons need a buff.
09:05 <aosdict> Already done.
09:05 <jonadab> And if you're using 3.x as your reference, ranged weapons need a buff, probably in the form of ammo mulch rates.
09:05 <jonadab> And shield needs a buff, perhaps in the form of shield skill, but you are already contemplating that.
09:05 <aosdict> Or at least, already written up.
09:06 <aosdict> I think at this point, the proposal's major components are all in place, and it just needs tweaking of numbers and mechanics
09:06 <aosdict> The buff to two-handed weapons is that they deal high damage (comparable to mattock) with good accuracy.
09:07 <jonadab> Ah, so mattock is going to lose its to-hit penalty in the rework?
09:08 <aosdict> Maybe. Mattock is also valuable as a digging tool.
09:08 <aosdict> It should still be harder to swing a mattock than a two-handed sword, though.
09:08 <jonadab> Sure, I'll buy that.
09:09 * aosdict has swung mattocks before. they seem much better for digging dirt than dealing damage to something
09:10 <jonadab> Ok.
09:10 <jonadab> They're really only attractive as a weapon for Arc, as it stands, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
09:10 <jonadab> Role distinctiveness is good.
09:11 <Tomthetom00> The first time I played nethack, I read tripe ration as triple ration. I was disapointed
09:11 <jonadab> Heh.
09:12 <jonadab> Actually, for flavor reasons, I think tripe rations shouldn't generate at random nearly as much, but should be found in the inventory of monsters that can eat tripe, e.g. orcs.
09:12 <aosdict> yani: ^
09:29 <Tangles> heh. One of the nymphs on aphrodite's level has a wand of sleep. Bye bye inventory.
09:31 <Beholder> [un] Tangles (Con Orc Mal Cha), 2347 points, T:2746, killed by a wand
09:31 <Tangles> and no, I did not want my posessions identified.
09:31 <Tangles> because I had none.
09:32 <aosdict> so you're saying there's a bones file out there with lots of uncursed possessions? :D
09:36 <Tomthetom00> Now cursed
09:36 <aosdict> Not if the nymphs stole all of it
09:39 <Tomthetom00> omg
09:39 <Tomthetom00> how did my save become corrupted
09:39 <Tomthetom00> ffs
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09:42 <Tangles> aosdict: That's about the measure of it.  Of course they also have wands of sleep and striking.
09:43 * Tangles dips cursed striped shirt in fountain to uncurse it; attracts water nymph; nymph steals shirt.
09:47 <Tangles> You hit the water nymph! The water nymph stole a heavy iron ball.
09:47 <Tangles> well, that's good and bad.
09:50 <Beholder> [un] Tangles (Con Orc Mal Cha), 895 points, T:1811, killed by a boulder
09:52 <Beholder> [fh] IDEK (Tomthetom) (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 39880 points, T:7348, killed by a crocodile
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10:02 <Tangles> You see here a sling named Giantslayer.
10:03 <Tangles> That might actually be useful for a convict...
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10:07 <jonadab> Oooh, a sling named Giantslayer.
10:07 * jonadab considers the merits of making giantslayer an artifact sling.
10:08 <aosdict> You feel compelled to change your name to David.
10:11 <jonadab> Heh.
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10:34 <Tangles> So the sling blasts me, but it sets my strength to 18/** when wielded, or in the alternate weapon slot.
10:38 <hothraxxa> speaking of #twoweapon: https://twitter.com/Reactuh/status/892992709408866304
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10:40 <aosdict> hothraxxa: what is it? (I don't have a graphical browser at the moment, it looks like an image link and the guy hates VR for some reason)
10:41 <hothraxxa> ah. it links to a video showing the perils of #twoweapon in an amusing way
10:41 <hothraxxa> just happened to pop up in an other forum i frequent. i thought it was quite timely
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10:46 <hothraxxa> https://youtu.be/YlQVjxyzX3k is the original post apparently
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11:08 <Beholder> [un] Tangles (Con Orc Mal Cha) killed the ghost of Luxidream, the former Digger, on T:3426
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11:22 <FIQ> Tangles: that's a brutal first level
11:23 <FIQ> I guess one advantage is that you can wade through the pits, which doesn't count as cheating
11:25 <Tangles> YEah it's 2a (or 2b or whatever) flipped vertically.
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11:44 <FIQ> so my attempts at figuring out how to correctly (unlike the NH3 hilite_obj_piles patch) show object piles during detection turned into "rewrite object detection from scratch"
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12:18 <Grasshopper> .
12:18 <aosdict> floor?
12:19 <Grasshopper> hmmm? Just posting in case there are messages waiting
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12:42 <loli> .quit 12345
12:42 <loli> whoops
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12:54 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Cha Ang Fem Cha), 27 points, T:211, killed by a killer kop
12:54 <loli> !lastgame
12:54 <Beholder> loli: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dolores/slex/dumplog/1502470284.slex.txt
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13:31 <LarienTelrunya> Beholder: show me the messages you collected :D
13:31 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: Message from jonadab at 2017-08-11 07:47 EDT: If you think forcing _wandless_ conduct on a player would be evil, bear in mind that Fourk tracks things like tool-less, non-use of jewelry and accessories (which includes blindfolds), nudist, reflectionless, and potionless.  Imagine being forced to keep all those!
13:31 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: Message from aosdict at 2017-08-11 08:30 EDT: "aosdicthack" is a terrible name for anything ever
13:32 <aosdict> I stand by my statement
13:33 <LarienTelrunya> yeah; I was just hoping you'd make a variant at all, of course a better name would probably be required ;)
13:33 <aosdict> I've been thinking if I did, maybe xnethack,.
13:33 <aosdict> er, without a comma in it
13:34 <aosdict> "experimental nethack"
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13:37 <LarienTelrunya> haha I just read "Pholendewodanhack" in the log :D
13:37 <aosdict> no
13:39 <LarienTelrunya> also, ninja in the samurai quest supposedly carry "lots" of throwing stars? I played samurai in every single non-slex variant during junethack, and didn't bother picking them up in any of the variants since the total was always just about 20-30, and they break way too often anyway...
13:39 <LarienTelrunya> maybe there were more in 3.6.0, didn't really pay attention
13:39 <aosdict> I recall getting tons of them
13:40 <LarienTelrunya> only in fourk you get tons, in the magic chest
13:40 <LarienTelrunya> 200+, actually, and fourk helpfully reduces the odds of them breaking
13:41 <jonadab> Yeah, I keep misestimating the effect of random stack sizes.
13:41 <jonadab> (I intended more like 40-60 of the things.)
13:42 <LarienTelrunya> what? didn't want to imply it was a bad thing; in fact, I greatly increased shuriken stack sizes in slex myself :)
13:42 <jonadab> Well, yes, more than in 3.4 is clearly required.
13:42 <jonadab> If you want anyone to actually consider using them.
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13:42 <LarienTelrunya> with the amount currently generated in fourk, they would even be a valid weapon choice!
13:42 <jonadab> But 200+ is excessive.
13:42 <LarienTelrunya> and if in next junethack the amount is still the same, I will actually use them :)
13:43 <jonadab> Hmm, YANI:  projectiles that have a chance to break when thrown can be enchanted up to +10.
13:43 <LarienTelrunya> IMHO higher enchantment should keep reducing the odds of them breaking and the luck effect should be smaller to compensate
13:43 <jonadab> Would that be OP?  I mean, considering darts and arrows...
13:43 <aosdict> Eh, +7 blessed don't break in any significant quantity.
13:45 <aosdict> (I also have an idea out there to give Rangers a role advantage to decrease projectile breakage chances)
13:49 <jonathanhanes> If you could enchant breakable projectiles safely up to 10 you could just as easily poly them into something useful as well
13:50 <LarienTelrunya> +10 Excalibur ;)
13:50 <jonathanhanes> exactly
13:50 <aosdict> let's not buff polypiling
13:51 <jonathanhanes> Maybe you could increase the chance of shuttering vibrations or something but it still seems unbalanced
13:52 <LarienTelrunya> YASI: polypiling a highly enchanted piece of equipment will vaporize it if the item it becomes would not be able to reach that enchantment value normally.
13:53 <jonathanhanes> Well technically you could reach that value normally, the odds are just astronomically low
13:53 <jonathanhanes> So maybe the chance for the item to successfully poly is the same as it would be trying to enchant that piece up to that enchantment
13:53 <jonathanhanes> Which makes trying to poly like that effectively useless
13:54 <LarienTelrunya> so polypiling a +10 thing would check against the 1 in 8 chance to reach +8, then 1 in 9 for +9 and finally 1 in 10 for +10 for a total of 1 in 720 chance of success? that would probably work ;)
13:55 <jonathanhanes> Something like that :P
13:55 <LarienTelrunya> also, why can't elven weapons reach +9 safely?
13:56 <aosdict> because +9 is a ridiculously huge to-hit and damage bonus?
13:58 <NeroOneTrueKing> Or, should non-artifact non-elven weapons only be able to hit +5 safely?
13:59 <jonadab> aosdict: Have you seen the Fourk ammo mulch changes?
13:59 <aosdict> No, I know very few things about Fourk
14:01 <aosdict> and you are referring to what the wiki calls breakage?
14:01 <jonadab> Basically, it's not hardcoded to particular roles, but the rate at which ammo breaks depends on several factors, and one of those factors is your skill _cap_ in the skill in question.
14:01 <jonadab> So if you are a Tourist and can get to Expert in darts, darts don't break nearly as often as if you are some role that's restricted in dart.
14:02 <jonadab> Actual skill level you have achieved is also part of the formula.
14:02 <jonadab> So once you #enhance, it gets even better.
14:03 <jonadab> Enchantment does also matter.
14:05 <jonadab> See commit 74953cdeca1272 for details.
14:19 <K2> FIQ: stray from true path? :)
14:20 <FIQ> hi
14:20 <Beholder> Hello FIQ, Welcome to #hardfought
14:23 <LarienTelrunya> Evil Patch idea: if the giant eel "brushes against your leg", you will also get drowned on the next turn, with the only difference that the eel is not actually holding you so you can walk away. But forget to do that and it's DYWYPI.
14:25 <jonadab> EPI: when an eel grabs a hold of you, there's a 1/20 chance that your character doesn't notice, so you don't get any message about it.
14:26 <LarienTelrunya> Super Evil Patch idea: a type of eel that has two drowning attacks per turn. If the first one manages to grab you, the second one can drown you in the same turn.
14:27 <FIQ> the sam quest nemesis can do that
14:27 <aosdict> It's not super evil if people are just going to get paranoid about water and carry a polearm everywhere
14:28 <NeroOneTrueKing> cast cone of cold at every sea creature
14:28 <LarienTelrunya> haha, that polearm would work a lot better if skill slots weren't so few so you could actually advance them ;)
14:29 <NeroOneTrueKing> few skill slots? Since when?
14:29 <NeroOneTrueKing> You put 5-6 in your main weapon
14:29 <NeroOneTrueKing> and have 20+ left over
14:29 <jonadab> EPI: Digging creatures that can pop up out of the floor and grab you, and if you don't get away, the next turn they pull you into the ground.  If you have unbreathing, you can dig out, otherwise you are "buried alive".
14:29 <LarienTelrunya> and 4 more in dual-wielding
14:29 <jonadab> Which is a new type of death, buried alive.
14:31 <NeroOneTrueKing> My recent fiqhack wizard decided to cap every spellcasting skill, and wands (she was restricted in her main weapon, long swords)
14:31 <LarienTelrunya> reaching such a high experience level takes a long while though
14:32 <LarienTelrunya> especially in vanilla with its "at XL14, killing monsters does not level you up ever again" policy
14:32 <aosdict> the combat system overhaul is going to need to bump up the number of skill points needed to enhance twoweaponing
14:32 <LarienTelrunya> why does everyone hate twoweaponing? :(
14:32 <NeroOneTrueKing> It's better than the other things available.
14:33 <aosdict> I love twoweaponing, I just need to make sure that it has more significant drawbacks than in vanilla.
14:33 <NeroOneTrueKing> Being a dnethack person, my preference would be to make the other options more powerful to equalize
14:33 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: We don't hate two-weaponing.  We hate the fact that _every player feels compelled to choose it as the only reasonable strategy_.  There are meant to be meaningful choices.
14:33 <aosdict> (Namely, no shield, some spellcasting penalty, and inability to use ranged attacks.)
14:34 <jonadab> Two-weaponing, shield use, and two-handed weapon should be _about_ equally powerful, and choosing between them should be a question of role, play style, and just plain choice.
14:34 <LarienTelrunya> well I guess the FIQhack way of buffing the tsurugi could even make me use something other than twoweaponing ;)
14:34 <aosdict> jonadab: well, shield use isn't as powerful but it makes you a heck of a lot harder to hit
14:34 <LarienTelrunya> but then again the skill slots are a problem - I'd have invested into long sword and twoweaponing already and then you want me to waste 5 more slots for two-handed swords? Where shall I get those slots from???
14:35 <jonadab> aosdict: Ok, about equally attractive as options, then.
14:35 <LarienTelrunya> huge problem with limited skill slots is that respeccing isn't an option, you more or less need to specialize in one weapon type and use that for all time
14:35 <aosdict> Noted.
14:36 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: Well, the choices you make are supposed to matter, yes.
14:36 <jonadab> So if you choose to invest all your skill points into one particular weapon, then yes, you'll be using that weapon for the rest of the game.
14:36 <NeroOneTrueKing> What if there were various specializations of skill points?
14:36 <LarienTelrunya> that's stupid :P I thought we wanted to add versatility for the player?
14:37 <aosdict> jonadab: this is why I think it should be possible but expensive to rearrange skill points
14:37 <NeroOneTrueKing> ex) Basic level counts towards long swords, twohanded swords, short swords
14:37 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: Versatility, yes.  Versatility to make different choices, that have a meaningful impact on how the character handles the rest of the game.
14:37 <LarienTelrunya> (my comment was directed at jonadab)
14:38 <aosdict> NeroOneTrueKing: so a skill tree instead of a skill array?
14:38 <jonadab> NeroOneTrueKing: Oh, so there's a "sword" skill that only goes to basic, and to go beyond basic you have to specialize in a particular type of sword?
14:38 <NeroOneTrueKing> yes, to both
14:38 <jonadab> That... has potential.
14:38 <LarienTelrunya> jonadab: but the choice is "do I suffer through the entire early game, not enhancing my long sword skill, just so I later have enough points to advance two-handed swords" or "do I actually play a character that will not die horribly, by investing those points into skills for the only weapons available early on?"
14:38 <jonadab> But it would require a lot of infrastructure work.
14:39 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: I don't think investing one enhancement in your starting weapon should ruin your chances of getting another weapon later.   But taking it all the way to expert is another matter.
14:39 <jonadab> Also:  you should have enough skill points to enhance two different weapon skills, if you _don't_ feel the need to enhance certain other skills.
14:39 <jonadab> Like wands, riding, shield use, etc.
14:40 <aosdict> and I was preparing another suggestion that amnesia drains skill points instead of forgetting discoveries and maps - somewhat related
14:40 <jonadab> Yes, amnesia is such a fun game mechanic, everyone loves it, I am totally going to add it back into Fourk.  Not.
14:40 <aosdict> jonadab: and remember this is all predicated on vanilla with 1 skill point per level and you're not expected to go far past 14
14:41 <LarienTelrunya> how about making amnesia drain skill slots? Getting hit by amnesia often enough would then force you to play the remaining game while unskilled in everything.
14:41 <LarienTelrunya> ^^ EPI
14:41 <aosdict> jonadab: I think amnesia works as a mechanic if your character forgets things the player doesn't actually know.
14:42 <aosdict> So it accelerates forgetting of spells, and drains skill points, but you do NOT forget discoveries or maps, which are trivial to record.
14:42 <jonadab> aosdict: So NH4 amnesia then.
14:42 <aosdict> did I independently invent nh4 amnesia? :o
14:43 <jonadab> Not in the details.
14:43 <jonadab> But the basic "not stuff the player can write down" idea is textbook NH4 amnesia.
14:43 <NeroOneTrueKing> yani: when skill points are drained through amnesia, they should be able to be reassigned
14:43 <NeroOneTrueKing> but skill points drained through level draining cannot
14:44 <jonadab> Among other things, NH4 amnesia converts formal type-identification to informal type-naming, which means you can't write that scroll with a marker, etc.
14:44 <aosdict> NeroOneTrueKing: yes! it actually gives amnesia a gameplay benefit
14:45 <aosdict> and also makes skill points expensive to reassign
14:45 <jonadab> EPI: amnesia doesn't make your skill points re-usable.  It moves them to worse items.  Previously you had long sword skill?  Well, now it's short sword, or scimitar, or knife.
14:46 <aosdict> my idea for a use of amnesia was to add shoggoths or something that fix something horrifying into your mind which interferes with normal play. Amnesia will remove this.
14:46 <aosdict> "interferes with normal play" - status effect, not interface screw
14:47 <jonadab> As in, every third turn your character wets his pants in fear and you don't get an action?
14:47 <LarienTelrunya> ooh, amnesia should remove weeping angel images in your mind in dnethack!
14:47 <LarienTelrunya> Chris__ANG: ^^
14:47 <Chris__ANG> If amnesisa were to remove skill slots, it should probably add a debuf that prevents them from being immediatly re-spent.  You'd either need to gain experience or cure the amnesia somehow.
14:47 <Chris__ANG> It does
14:47 <Chris__ANG> (re weeping angel images)
14:47 <Chris__ANG> ...I think.
14:47 <LarienTelrunya> really? yay!
14:47 <aosdict> Chris__ANG: yes, I meant that it drains the exercise points
14:48 <aosdict> or practice points
14:48 <aosdict> so you have to re-practice
14:48 <Tarmunora> Dumb Idea: Bump the training requirements up by 10-25%... and remove the skill point system entirely, giving you automatic skill levels in things. Clearly, available skills for some roles would need to be adjusted, but w/e
14:48 <Chris__ANG> Ah, I see.
14:49 <aosdict> It could automatically set them to the next level down and then subtract some, like level drain does, or something.
14:49 <Chris__ANG> Tarmunora: ...would probably need to be 10x or even 100x.  How long does it take you to use a skill 250 times in a typical game?
14:49 <jonadab> Tarmunora: That encourages griding.
14:49 <jonadab> (gromdomg
14:50 <jonadab> *grinding
14:50 <aosdict> haha
14:50 <jonadab> To a fairly substantial extent.
14:50 <aosdict> LarienTelrunya: add a "gromdomg" monster to slex
14:50 <Chris__ANG> Yes, there we go.  Any source of forgetting zeros out the weeping angel image.
14:50 <LarienTelrunya> cool
14:51 <LarienTelrunya> so that's another way if remove curse scrolls and coaligned altars and effigies are in short supply I guess
14:53 <LarienTelrunya> aosdict: may I give gromdomgs a weeping angel contamination gaze and a contamination beam attack? ;)
14:55 <aosdict> sure
14:55 <LarienTelrunya> the contamination is not implemented in slex yet, but will (hopefully) be soon
14:55 <LarienTelrunya> thanks Chris__ANG for inventing it!
14:56 <aosdict> Chris__ANG: what are the effects of contamination?
14:56 <aosdict> would it also work for shoggoths?
14:56 <zombifier> aosdict: your wisdom gets abused like crazy and if if goes below 3 you die
14:56 <zombifier> and turn into a weeping angel
14:57 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Blo Ang Fem Cha), 46396 points, T:7288, killed by brainlessness
14:57 <jonadab> So like sliming only slower and with additional side-effects.
14:57 <zombifier> and harder to get rid off
14:57 <Chris__ANG> Yep.  Net effect is an instadeath on a several-thousand turn delay.
14:57 <jonadab> Oh, _much_ slower then.
14:57 <zombifier> shoggoths don't have that stuff, they are just ultra pain in the ass absurdly tanky acid blobs that rip your clothes off
14:58 <aosdict> And stat loss from abuse is permanent, of course.
14:58 <loli> !lastgame
14:58 <Beholder> loli: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dolores/slex/dumplog/1502470579.slex.txt
14:58 <aosdict> zombifier: I'm imagining shoggoths as a new monster
14:58 <aosdict> not any current implementation
14:58 <aosdict> or pick some lovecraftian monster that's horrifying to behold
14:58 <zombifier> hmm okay
14:58 <jonadab> aosdict: permanent as in lowers the max you can ever reach, or just permanent as in you can't unicorn-horn it away and must regain in one of the normal ways you raise your stats?
14:59 <aosdict> jonadab: I was describing dnethack there
14:59 <aosdict> Hence, constant wisdom abuse is bad.
14:59 <zombifier> dnh Great Cthulhu is more straightforward, looking at him straight up reduces your wisdom and causes amnesia
14:59 <aosdict> In vanilla it wouldn't be a problem at all.
14:59 <jonadab> aosdict: Last time I played dnethack, I don't think attribute abuse was different from vanilla?
14:59 <jonadab> I mean, this was circa 2014.
15:00 <aosdict> I thought dnethack stats lost from abuse couldn't be regained again except the "hard way"
15:00 <aosdict> unicorn horns, restore ability etc doesn't work
15:00 <Chris__ANG> I think abuse has been un-recoverable (save by gradual excercise) for ages.
15:00 <jonadab> Hmm, maybe I just never noticed.
15:00 <aosdict> Chris__ANG: is it also recoverable by gain ability? I thought it was
15:01 <jonadab> I only ever got to around quest portal depth in dnethack.
15:01 <Chris__ANG> Yeah, it's pretty hard to abuse your stats enough to get them to drop.
15:01 <Chris__ANG> Ah, right.
15:01 <Chris__ANG> Gain ability also works.
15:01 <Tarmunora> Chris__ANG: What happens when taking a picture of a Weeping Angel?
15:01 <aosdict> heh
15:01 <Tarmunora> With an expensive camera
15:01 <aosdict> I really need to watch that Blink episode
15:02 <aosdict> so I can comment intelligently on weeping angels
15:02 <Chris__ANG> Nothing :(
15:02 <Tarmunora> Make it trash the camera and spawn a second angel
15:02 <Chris__ANG> It *should* set an egg timer on the the cammera, causing it to eventually hatch into a new angel,
15:02 <Chris__ANG> but that is unimplemented.
15:02 <Tarmunora> (Trash the camera so you can't just make a horde of 90 angels for the bones-file-from-hell)
15:05 <FIQ> ...
15:05 <FIQ> so I was looking into what the default message for food detection was
15:05 <FIQ> https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Scroll_of_food_detection
15:05 <FIQ> this has all the messages *except* for the default one
15:06 <aosdict> so fix it?
15:06 <aosdict> you have a wiki account
15:06 <FIQ> Chris__ANG: weeping angels shouldn't work if hallucinating
15:07 <aosdict> you could make the case for no gaze attacks should work if hallucinating
15:07 <Chris__ANG> Hm, fair point
15:07 <zombifier> the newt's image in your mind weakens you
15:08 <LarienTelrunya> Evil Patch idea: if you're hallucinating, and a monster has a gaze attack, that attack will have the effect of a randomly chosen attack of whatever monster you think it is. So if you e.g. hallucinate that Medusa was Demogorgon, that particular instance of her gaze attack makes you deathly sick.
15:08 <FIQ> aosdict: no
15:08 <FIQ> pyrolisks should still work
15:09 -!- noty has joined #hardfought
15:09 <FIQ> as should beholders
15:09 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Cam Ang Fem Cha), 63 points, T:316, killed by a monster (river moccasin)
15:09 <FIQ> LarienTelrunya: well I'd say that's better than being instapetrified
15:09 <jonadab> Slightly.
15:10 <LarienTelrunya> conversely, if you hallucinate that a pyrolisk is a cockatrice, guess what will happen ;)
15:10 * aosdict is not sure how the pyrolisk's gaze is supposed to happen. It doesn't shoot literal fire at you...
15:10 <Chris__ANG> Also hm.  A good rule of thumb is that any gaze attack that can be blocked by blindness should also be blocked by hallucination.
15:10 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: But if you're hallucinating, the cockatrice attack can't stone you, because you are already stoned :-)
15:11 <FIQ> Chris__ANG: yes, that I can agree with
15:11 <aosdict> Chris__ANG: what are examples of gaze attacks that aren't blocked by blindness?
15:11 <FIQ> but I think pyrolisks can still burn you if blind
15:11 <aosdict> not in vanilla
15:11 <FIQ> hm
15:11 <FIQ> ok
15:11 <LarienTelrunya> jonadab: LOL :D that would actually be a nice additional way to defeat Medusa
15:11 <FIQ> then it should be blocked too
15:11 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: Fourk has the "You are already stoned." thing.  It was raisse's idea.
15:11 <Chris__ANG> Re: Shoggoths: Call of Cthulhu to aside, I don't think many Lovecraftian monsters actually make you crazy just from looking at them.
15:11 <FIQ> LarienTelrunya: 4k 4.3.0.5 blocks petrification if hallucinating
15:12 <FIQ> giving implicit petrification resistance
15:12 <Chris__ANG> (er, that's Call of Cthulhu as in the tabletop game)
15:12 <LarienTelrunya> oh cool, I think I'll implement that
15:12 <FIQ> Chris__ANG: Pale Night
15:12 <Chris__ANG> I mean, most people in Lovecraft stories do go nuts,
15:12 <aosdict> Chris__ANG: I'm thinking that one thing from At the Mountains of Madness that's never described but leaves a minor character a paranoid wreck for the rest of his life
15:13 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Cam Ang Fem Cha), 80 points, T:293, killed by a monster (cheep-cheep)
15:13 <aosdict> Though based on interpretation, it's probably not a _monster_.
15:14 <Chris__ANG> but most of them would *also* probably go nuts from Smaug chasing them around his lair like a 600 ft cat torturing a mouse.
15:14 <FIQ> @le?bowser
15:14 <Beholder> Bowser (D) | Lvl: 40 | Diff: 53 | Spd: 16 | Res: fire cold sleep disintegrate shock poison acid petrification magic | Confers: fire cold sleep disintegrate shock poison | MR: 95 | Generates: unique | AC: -30 | Attacks: 10d10 breath random breath, 4d4 cast spell, 5d8 weapon amulet steal, 5d8 bite fire, 5d8 lashing cold, 1d6 hug random breath | Alignment: -20 | Flags: carnivore, thick hide, seeinvis, poisonous, nopoly, stalker, covetous, in
15:14 <FIQ> @le?peach
15:14 <Beholder> peach ~1~ Peace (A) | Lvl: 30 | Diff: 37 | Spd: 24 | Res: fire cold sleep disintegrate shock poison petrification | Confers: nothing | MR: 125 | Generates: unique | AC: 0 | Attacks: 8d8 touch calm | Alignment: 0 | Flags: flies, breathless, regenerates, seeinvis, nopoly, stalker
15:16 <Chris__ANG> Pale Night is original to D&D, I believe.
15:16 <LarienTelrunya> @le?buzzy beetle
15:16 <Beholder> buzzy beetle (a) | Lvl: 27 | Diff: 29 | Spd: 12 | Res: fire | Confers: nothing | MR: 100 | Generates: special | AC: -16 | Attacks: 3d4 bite physical, 4d5 bite physical | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, carnivore, thick hide
15:16 <aosdict> buzzy beetle is a ' ' symbol?
15:17 <LarienTelrunya> on my screen it's an a
15:17 <jonadab> @le?sigil of agony
15:17 <Beholder> No such monster. I looked really hard but there's no such thing.
15:17 <LarienTelrunya> gray on black background
15:17 <jonadab> aosdict: dark gray a on black background
15:17 <aosdict> just my terminal then
15:18 <zombifier> Chris__ANG: the elemental signs in the Necronomicon should do more. they grant you a resistance when stood on, but by that point you're resistant to everything
15:18 <aosdict> also, irssi is annoying when Beholder says something in color and then aosdict, such as it livelogging
15:18 <aosdict> the hilight works incorrectly
15:26 <Chris__ANG> aosdict: I was also going to bring up the undescribed thing; but probably that doesn't actually make you crazy just to look at.
15:27 <Chris__ANG> It's just, like, really, *really* scary.
15:27 <jonadab> Is there one that only makes you _think_ you're crazy?
15:28 <zombifier> the Cthulhu creatures are not explicitly described as driving you insane, they are unknownable, that is the human mind doesn't possess what's needed to fully understand them
15:35 <aosdict> Annoying Patch Idea: put the doors to the high temples in Astral on the opposite side, or on one of the three non-front sides chosen randomly
15:38 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Cam Ang Fem Cha), 2811 points, T:1605, killed by a bolt of fire
15:39 <LarienTelrunya> !lastgame dolores
15:39 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dolores/slex/dumplog/1502478816.slex.txt
15:45 <Beholder> [dyn] groovejumper (Tou Hum Fem Neu), 8334 points, T:9158, killed by a rabid rat
15:47 -!- NeroOneTrueKing_ has joined #hardfought
15:50 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:10 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought
16:10 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ
16:13 -!- jonathanhanes has quit [Quit: *poof*]
16:24 <FIQ> A wand of striking on other objects on the floor of a room.
16:24 <FIQ> yay, progress
16:40 <FIQ> so I took some time in learning how NH4's display system works... http://home.fiq.se/obj_piles.png
16:43 -!- Jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought
16:47 <FIQ> !tell K2 pushed fiqhack update with hilite_obj_piles
16:47 <Beholder> Will do, FIQ!
16:47 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
16:49 <LarienTelrunya> oh nh4 variants are finally starting to implement the hilite patch, yay :)
16:52 <jonadab> FIQ: Oh, NICE.
16:53 <jonadab> I assume I'll need some adaptation to make that work in Fourk, but just being able to see what you did makes it way more feasible.
17:02 <FIQ> jonadab: I refactored the detection code because it was insane
17:02 <FIQ> as part of the entire thing, to make object detection do the right thing
17:02 <FIQ> (it doesn't in NH3, most people don't realize)
17:07 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Cam Ang Fem Cha), 9166 points, T:3941, killed by a blast of fire
17:07 <LarienTelrunya> !lastgame dolores
17:07 <Beholder> LarienTelrunya: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dolores/slex/dumplog/1502480337.slex.txt
17:08 <aosdict> a blast of fire and a bolt of fire aren't really that different
17:09 <LarienTelrunya> I think loli would object ;)
17:09 <loli> :(
17:09 <loli> I object to everything here!
17:11 <aosdict> huh, enlightenment potions are 2x as likely as full healing.
17:14 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Kur Ang Fem Cha), 24 points, T:268, killed by overexertion
17:14 <loli> worst deawth
17:14 <LarienTelrunya> I'm fairly sure a few junethack players would die for getting that death
17:15 <LarienTelrunya> although, on second thought, they'd want to die for every other unique death too!
17:30 <K2> FIQhack updated
17:30 <Beholder> K2: Message from FIQ at 2017-08-11 16:47 EDT: pushed fiqhack update with hilite_obj_piles
17:37 <jonadab> FIQ: Ah, does your object piles implementation depend on the detection refactor?
17:37 <jonadab> Cherry-picking a detection refactor _might_ go smoothly, as it might not touch code I've messed with in Fourk much.
17:39 <FIQ> I haven't touched it at all (the relevant bits) in fiqhack until now
17:39 <FIQ> besides adding an impossible if invoked by a monster in one of them
17:39 <jonadab> Ah, so that list of commits I already have, from today, are it?
17:39 <FIQ> yes
17:39 <jonadab> Cool beans.
17:40 <jonadab> I will definitely look at that at some point.
17:40 <FIQ> the ones i Mentioned in #FIQHack
17:40 <FIQ> *I mentioned
17:40 <jonadab> Yeah.
17:40 <FIQ> which is 4 commits in total
17:40 <jonadab> Is that fifth one relevant?
17:40 <FIQ> no
17:40 <FIQ> if you mean 2009ec4
17:40 <jonadab> Yeah, I mean 2009ec4.
17:43 <K2> FIQ: user configurable menucolors is coming next yeah?
17:44 <jonadab> K2: The "configurable" part of that is the hard part.  Specifically, it really means we need generalized options submenus.
17:45 <jonadab> Configurable channelization, same answer.
17:46 <jonadab> At some point one of us has to warp our brain into a more ais-like shape until it can understand the existing options code.
17:46 <LarienTelrunya> rcfiles for nh4oids when :D
17:46 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: That would be a step in the wrong direction.
17:46 <jonadab> We want a human-editable options format, but THAT is NOT it.
17:47 <LarienTelrunya> well it can't get much worse than those awful menus, so... any kind of options file that can be edited by nano (or virus) would already help!
17:47 <jonadab> Bonus points if the same format, and parser, can replace objects.c and monst.c
17:48 <jonadab> And artilist.h
17:48 <Beholder> [nd] jonathanhanes (Val Dwa Fem Law) performed her first genocide (master mind flayer), on T:11408
17:50 <FIQ> jonadab: nothing wrong with rcfiles
17:51 <FIQ> K2: maaaaaaybe
17:51 <jonadab> FIQ: Are you kidding?  Have you seen how many _different_ syntaxes you have to learn to edit one?
17:51 <FIQ> have you heard about comments
17:51 <jonadab> Comments help, but the format is still terrible.
17:51 <LarienTelrunya> jonadab: But you can copy over someone else's sane rcfile and then edit it to suit your needs.
17:51 <FIQ> if you can come up with a saner format, be my guest
17:52 <FIQ> but at the very least
17:52 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: Yes, that's a useful feature.
17:52 <jonadab> LarienTelrunya: We do want a human-editable format, just not THAT one.
17:52 <FIQ> I will try to preserve backward compat
17:52 <jonadab> And also not JSON, because as has just been said, comments are good.
17:52 <jonadab> I don't know why people keep saying JSON, but they are wrong.
17:54 <FIQ> json is stupid yes
17:54 <FIQ> jonadab: I don't think there is anything wrong with the NH3 format besides inconsistency
17:54 <FIQ> Which can be addressed without changing to a completely new format
17:55 <FIQ> jonadab: also
17:55 <FIQ> the only formats you need to learn
17:55 <FIQ> is the "normal" one
17:55 <FIQ> the autopickup/menucolors one
17:55 <FIQ> and the statuscolors one
17:56 <FIQ> statuscolors can plausibly be made to use the same format as autopickup/menucolors
17:56 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed]
17:56 <FIQ> and then you only have 2
17:57 <jonadab> FIQ: Modifying the NH3 format to be more consistent is an interesting idea.
17:57 <FIQ> jonadab: I honestly don't think the NH3 format is bad
17:58 <FIQ> It's just inconsistent
17:58 <FIQ> I find it rather straightforward to use
17:58 <jonadab> But it has way more inconsistencies than you've enumerated.
17:58 <FIQ> Like?
17:58 <jonadab> Like !option vs option=0
17:59 <jonadab> Just to name one of numerous examples.
17:59 <FIQ> ?
17:59 <FIQ> That's just boolean vs value-based options
17:59 <jonadab> Some options have multiple names.
17:59 <FIQ> That's something you learn in about 2 minutes
17:59 <FIQ> What?
18:00 <FIQ> That makes no sense
18:00 <FIQ> Example?
18:00 <jonadab> Some options are specified using OPTION= and some are not.
18:00 <FIQ> Yes, I pointed those out above
18:00 <FIQ> Normal options vs autopickup/menutype vs statuscolors
18:00 <jonadab> The syntax for DUNGEON and DUNGEONCOLOR and so on is *absurdly* bad.
18:01 <FIQ> Hm
18:01 <FIQ> Good point
18:01 <FIQ> Then again, NH4 can't plausibly support those at all :D
18:01 <jonadab> Actually, it does, just not in the same way.  That's a tileset feature, in NH4.
18:02 <FIQ> DUNGEON doesn't exist
18:02 <FIQ> DUNGEONCOLORS does
18:02 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Kur Ang Fem Cha), 18296 points, T:3169, killed by a monster (Mr. Hebiwerie, the shopkeeper)
18:02 <FIQ> you might be thinking of TRAPCOLORS
18:02 <FIQ> as the other one
18:03 <FIQ> jonadab: actually it would be nice if NH4 provided an userland tileset
18:03 <FIQ> text-based
18:03 <FIQ> that you can edit
18:03 <FIQ> (or copy from someone else)
18:20 <FIQ> hey
18:20 <Beholder> Hello FIQ, Welcome to #hardfought
18:20 <FIQ> the option file parsing isn't that bad
18:20 <FIQ> I can probably make it human editable
18:26 <loli> !lastgame
18:26 <Beholder> loli: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dolores/slex/dumplog/1502486089.slex.txt
18:26 <aosdict> can you make it YAML?
18:26 <FIQ> why?
18:27 <aosdict> I dunno, I guess it'd be nice to have options in a standardized format (and not JSON of course)
18:29 <loli> kurwa is a fun class
18:30 <loli> your starting kicks are really powerful
18:31 <FIQ> aosdict: I was just going to adapt the existing NH3 config format
18:31 <FIQ> it's what people are used to
18:31 <FIQ> and it isn't *bad* IMO besides consistency issues
18:31 <FIQ> which can be addressed
18:32 <aosdict> EPI: when you are reduced to a small fraction of your HP (CwnAnnwn range), you have a chance of starting to *lose* hit points instead of regenerating them.
18:33 -!- Chris__ANG is now known as Chris_ANG
18:40 <jonadab> aosdict: YAML has problems related to being too similar to JSON.  It _has_ comment syntax, but it's not a good or flexible comment syntax.
18:41 <jonadab> Unless I'm confusing YAML with another JSON-related format.
18:41 <jonadab> There is at least one other one.
18:42 <jonadab> EPI: the options file format is a binary format, and the individual options are not all byte-aligned.  There's no editor, you just have to use a hex editor.
18:42 <jonadab> And the options can't be changed in-game.
18:43 <aosdict> YAML comments are just the first # to the end of the line.
18:43 <aosdict> That seems like what the option file has now.
18:44 <aosdict> Unless you meant block comments?
18:44 <loli> going down stairs sure is fun https://puu.sh/x7MHM/017f73cdff.png
18:44 <jonadab> aosdict: Oh, that's ok then.
18:44 <jonadab> I must've been thinking of that other JSON-related format someone suggested.
18:46 <jonadab> But I'm starting to see some merit in FIQ's suggestion of borrowing a limited, consistent subset of the NH3 options file syntax.
18:47 <aosdict> The basic syntax for options would be name: value, but you could group stuff like menucolors in an indented block.
18:48 <aosdict> I'd personally like to get rid of having to stick OPTIONS= and MENUCOLORS= and AUTOPICKUP_EXCEPTION= everywhere
18:49 <jonadab> aosdict: I agree that getting rid of OPTIONS= everywhere would be an improvement.  Seems highly redundant, since this is an options file.
18:53 <Beholder> [slex] hothraxxa (Gla Rod Fem Neu), 195544 points, T:8389, killed by a monster (werehorse), while sleeping
18:56 <loli> time to spam charm monster
19:01 <loli> how do you deal with the stairs case being blocked
19:03 <FIQ> jonadab: the reason it has OPTIONS is because you can stack them
19:03 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Drd Ang Fem Cha), 1740 points, T:1747, killed by a cowardly attack on her breasts
19:04 <loli> the stairs being blocked is evil
19:04 <loli> !lastgame
19:04 <Beholder> loli: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dolores/slex/dumplog/1502490772.slex.txt
19:15 <K2> FIQ: are wands of polymorph rare? or am i just unlucky in not finding one yet
19:15 <K2> <--- at the VotD
19:15 <FIQ> more common than vanilla
19:16 <K2> hrm
19:16 <FIQ>     if (difficulty > 6 && !rn2_on_rng(30, rng))
19:16 <FIQ>         return WAN_POLYMORPH;
19:16 <FIQ> for monsters getting offensive items
19:17 <FIQ>     if (!rn2_on_rng(30, rng))
19:17 <FIQ>         return rn2_on_rng(3, rng) ? POT_POLYMORPH : WAN_POLYMORPH;
19:17 <FIQ> in misc items
19:17 <FIQ> in vanilla, check 1 doesn't exist at all
19:17 <FIQ> check 2 has an additional check that only gives it if difficulty is <6
19:22 <Beholder> [dnh] Tarmunora (Ana Dro Fem Cha), 9326 points, T:2771, killed by a tengu
19:22 <jonadab> FIQ: yes, but if you have a delimiter other than newline, you can stack them without OPTIONS=
19:23 <jonadab> autodig=true; autodigdown=true;
19:24 <FIQ> jonadab: I was going to allow OPTIONS= but ignore it
19:24 <hothraxxa> https://i.imgur.com/5fbgkSH.jpg
19:25 <FIQ> i.e. allow "OPTIONS=!bones", "bones:false", "OPTIONS=bones:false" and (allthough it'd look silly) "!bones"
19:25 <FIQ> basically, OPTIONS= being parsed as if it wasn't there
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19:32 <jonadab> FIQ: Oh, hmm.
19:33 <jonadab> FIQ: But I want to keep the in-game editor.
19:33 <jonadab> And have it write the options file back out.
19:33 <jonadab> Mostly unchanged, except for, you know, the changes that were made.
19:33 <FIQ> why would the in-game editor be lost?
19:33 <jonadab> Preserving comments.
19:33 <FIQ> jonadab: I were going to do something like this:
19:34 <FIQ> * If the config doesn't contain the line: add it to the end (prepend an "# Autogenerated by the game" comment if one doesn't exist)
19:35 <FIQ> * If the config *does* contain the line: change the value (and *only* the value except if a boolean is set in !foo/foo syntax,then add/remove a !)
19:37 <FIQ> jonadab: http://sprunge.us/QVMS like this
19:38 <hothraxxa> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/08/amd-threadripper-review-1950x-1920x/
19:40 <hothraxxa> when i were a young lad, we upgraded an IBM 360/40 from 256K (the system maximum) to 384K with a specially built core module that cost over a million 1970 dollars
19:41 <hothraxxa> in 1980, we upgraded an IBM 370 to add an asynchronous processor, so we actually had a 2 CPU machine
19:41 <hothraxxa> for about a million  1980 dollars
19:47 <jonadab> FIQ: Hmm.  So you don't read the options file in at program start, then write it out when the user makes changes.  You read the program in at program start, then _edit it in place_ when the user makes changes?
19:47 <jonadab> That could work, I guess.
19:49 <jonadab> That forces you to pick something other than = for the = though.
19:50 <jonadab> Probably : I guess.
19:50 <Beholder> [dnh] Tarmunora (Ana Dro Fem Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2065
19:52 <jonadab> hothraxxa: My first PC, which I got used, had 640K of RAM when I got it, which was the max it could have.  But it _originally_ came with 64K, and the previous owner had added the extra 128K on the motherboard that was supported, bringing the total to 192K, plus he added the add-on expansion card with the real-time clock and 448K of _additional_ RAM.  Yes, RAM on an expansion card, I swear I am not maki
19:52 <jonadab> ng this up.  Bringing the total to 640K.  Really souped up.
19:52 <jonadab> Probably not as expensive as the system you were talking about.
19:52 <jonadab> But similar idea.
19:52 <hothraxxa> i had systems with ram extension cards
19:52 <K2> FIQ
19:52 <FIQ> K2
19:53 <K2> my fiqhack game just crashed, no core dump, no msg in console
19:53 <FIQ> fire up the save in valgrind
19:53 <FIQ> or just give me it
19:53 <K2> it happened right as i started to walk on top of what looked like a statue in gehennom
19:53 <K2> i can reload it but it crashes as i do same action
19:53 <hothraxxa> how do you walk on statues, anyway?
19:54 <FIQ> hothraxxa: besides tem
19:54 <K2> very carefully
19:54 <hothraxxa> what kind of statues are these? they're pretty heavy
19:54 <K2> one sec FIQ
19:54 <FIQ> K2: give me the save I guess if you don't want to do it in valgrind
19:54 <K2> i wouldnt know what to do with it in valgrind
19:54 <K2> not a matter of not wanting to
19:54 <hothraxxa> valgrind sounds like a great player name
19:55 <hothraxxa> a valk who altar farms
19:55 <hothraxxa> playing extinctionist
19:56 <hothraxxa> k2: you were playing a monk, i think?
19:57 <K2> yes
19:58 <hothraxxa> looking at the table of first ascension combos
19:58 <K2> ;)
19:59 <hothraxxa> my problem is that if i try, say, arc then someone will zoom past me and take it
19:59 <K2> not necessarily
19:59 <K2> dont advertise it ;)
19:59 <hothraxxa> yeah they will
19:59 <Beholder> [dnh] Tarmunora (Ana Dro Fem Cha), 12089 points, T:2846, fell into a pit of cold-iron spikes
19:59 <K2> doh
19:59 <hothraxxa> i can't believe no one has ascended an arc
20:00 <K2> i know right? i was looking at that list a few days ago
20:00 <K2> very few overall asc in FIQhack
20:00 <hothraxxa> ranger is understandable
20:00 <K2> whys that?
20:00 <hothraxxa> yet some think fh is easy
20:00 <zombifier> Arc is horribly boring
20:00 <hothraxxa> ranger isn't a popular role, is why
20:00 <K2> ah
20:00 <K2> gnome ranger, hah
20:01 <zombifier> I literally forgot Arc is a role for several months
20:01 <hothraxxa> actually a tought start, that one
20:01 <K2> the quest artifact should change to crossbow if you play gnome
20:01 <K2> gnome ranger rather
20:01 <hothraxxa> aye
20:01 <K2> the crossbow of hothraxxa
20:01 <hothraxxa> not that anyone uses the longbow
20:03 <zombifier> dnethack gnome ranger does have the quest artifact changed to a crossbow
20:03 <FIQ> K2: pushed a fix
20:03 <K2> thx
20:03 <K2> what was it?
20:03 <FIQ> jonadab: fixed an objpile bug
20:04 <FIQ> K2: spoilers
20:04 <K2> FIQhack updated
20:04 <K2> huh... ok
20:04 <FIQ> naw
20:05 <FIQ> if an object pile function was called to update object piles
20:05 <K2> i see
20:05 <FIQ> if you see some an object
20:05 <K2> it was a giant mimic hiding as a statue
20:05 <FIQ> and the object is a fake
20:05 <FIQ> yeah
20:05 <FIQ> then it would crash
20:05 <K2> game is good now, thx
20:05 <jonadab> FIQ: Noted.
20:05 <hothraxxa> that's what i call service
20:06 <K2> ;)
20:06 <K2> so Billy the black dragon took out said mimic
20:06 <K2> and also took out Ed the minotaur at the same time
20:06 <K2> this makes me sad
20:06 <K2> i liked Ed
20:06 <K2> we had some good times together
20:07 <hothraxxa> it will pass
20:07 <K2> :(
20:07 <FIQ> K2: did you give it many intrinsics
20:07 <K2> no
20:07 <K2> i'm not really invested into any of my pets except Billy here
20:07 <FIQ> pets eating corpses confer intrinsics to them after all
20:07 <K2> oh it does
20:08 <hothraxxa> get billy to eat a floating eye
20:08 <FIQ> also
20:08 <K2> i havent played enough FIQhack to remember all the lil changes and tweaks you've done
20:08 <FIQ> yet another player who plays fiqhack
20:08 <K2> i have the wiki page open to it
20:08 <FIQ> who easily gets to gehennom
20:08 <FIQ> still unsure if I made it too easy
20:08 <K2> i'll let you know
20:09 <hothraxxa> fh end game can be brutal
20:09 <K2> yeah
20:09 <K2> gearing up for that
20:09 <FIQ> jonadab: K2 is one of the people who is using a terminal w/o unicode enabled
20:09 <FIQ> and would be shafted by your changes
20:09 <hothraxxa> if you get cancelled as a spellcaster, you could have a serious problem 
20:10 <FIQ> K2: if you have excess geno (not uncommon in fh since monsters can generate with it), you can revgeno floating eyes and give your pet one :P
20:10 <FIQ> would allow you to see it across the entire level
20:10 <FIQ> due to telepathy stacking
20:10 <K2> ahhh
20:11 <K2> i've come across 2 geno scrolls (took out L and V)
20:11 <FIQ> also, object piles is brand new
20:11 <K2> learned fast that level drain in FIQhack is no joke
20:11 <FIQ> does it work as it should?
20:11 <FIQ> hothraxxa has learned that also :P
20:11 <K2> i havent tested, i normally dont use hilite obj piles
20:11 <FIQ> he/she had to deal with it when it was even worse
20:11 <hothraxxa> hey
20:11 <Beholder> Hello hothraxxa, Welcome to #hardfought
20:11 <FIQ> K2: ahh, you can disable it if you want
20:11 <hothraxxa> i'm devoutly male
20:12 <K2> oh i see its on by default
20:12 <FIQ> hothraxxa: ahh, sorry, had no idea
20:12 <hothraxxa> hah
20:12 <K2> seems to work fine so far
20:12 <FIQ> it's not like gender discussion come up often here :P
20:12 <hothraxxa> i shoulda said i was a little old lady
20:12 <FIQ> hahaha
20:12 <K2> <--- toaster oven
20:12 <K2> according to facebook
20:12 <hothraxxa> oh right. meat popsicle!
20:12 <K2> lol
20:12 <FIQ> <--- male
20:12 <FIQ> according to facebook
20:12 <FIQ> very original I know ;)
20:13 <K2> ask amy to create a new race in slex - meat popsicle
20:13 <FIQ> K2: options -> interface options -> draw_piles:false
20:13 <K2> ok
20:13 <aosdict> K2: new gender, not new race
20:13 <FIQ> if you want it disabled
20:13 <K2> whatever
20:13 <K2> you knew what i meant
20:13 <K2> male/female/neuter/toaster over/meat popsicle
20:14 <K2> oven gdammit
20:14 <K2> FIQ I'll test it
20:15 <FIQ> fun fact: draw_terrain does nothing whatsoever
20:15 <FIQ> I noticed it earlier today
20:15 <FIQ> I don't know what it's supposed to do
20:15 <FIQ> it's a NH4 option
20:15 <FIQ> it doesn't do anything in nethack4 vanilla either
20:15 <K2> heh
20:15 <FIQ> was going to ask ais once he shows up
20:15 <FIQ> what it is supposed to do
20:17 <K2> Billy wont eat the wraith corpse
20:17 <K2> bad Billy, bad!
20:17 <FIQ> maybe it's too old
20:17 <FIQ> or he's full
20:17 <FIQ> throw it to him
20:18 <FIQ> haha it got generated with force bolt
20:18 <K2> heh yeah
20:18 <FIQ> btw, not sure if you know
20:18 <FIQ> but gloves enchantment count towards unarmed
20:18 <FIQ> in fiqhack
20:20 <K2> i saw that
20:20 <K2> made me happy as a monk
20:20 <K2> i noticed after i had enchanted these gloves i was killing things faster
20:20 <hothraxxa> turns out i had +9 leather gloves in my bag when i died in slex
20:20 <FIQ> K2: you can turn off the purple FYI if you dislike it
20:20 <FIQ> it's off by default
20:21 <FIQ> but you started fiqhack for the first time
20:21 <FIQ> before that change
20:21 <K2> oh that
20:21 <K2> i like seeing the detect monster property
20:21 <FIQ> ok
20:21 <K2> its like vanilla but diff color
20:21 <K2> nice to know the option exists tho
20:21 <FIQ> it's vanilla draw_inverse
20:21 <FIQ> er
20:21 <FIQ> use_inverse
20:22 <Beholder> [slex] Appleman1234 (Pir Jel Fem Cha), 100 points, T:622, killed by a monster (hobbit)
20:25 <K2> so astral vision
20:25 <K2> i can see *really* far thru walls and such
20:26 <K2> but monsters dont come into vision until i am next to them, or within range of a lit light source
20:26 <K2> is that on purpose?
20:28 <FIQ> what do you mean?
20:28 <FIQ> oh I get it
20:28 <FIQ> xray allows you to see through walls
20:29 <FIQ> it doesn't allow you to see monsters in range
20:29 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Cam Ang Fem Cha), 2140 points, T:1831, killed by a monster (invisible stone stalker)
20:29 <FIQ> use monster detection for that
20:29 <FIQ> or extrinsic telepat, whatever
20:29 <K2> in vanilla you can see everything within astral range
20:29 <FIQ> hmm
20:30 <FIQ> it doesn't wrk like that in NH4
20:30 <FIQ> any NH4
20:30 <K2> i see
20:30 <FIQ> should it?
20:30 <zombifier> strange, i thought nh4 is unchanged from nh3
20:30 <K2> my first time with the EotO on NH4 engine
20:30 <K2> i would think so? thats why i asked
20:30 <K2> didnt know if you had made that change on purpose
20:30 <aosdict> FIQ: yani: the only monsters you can see through walls with x-ray vision are skeletons
20:31 <FIQ> K2: I have not
20:31 <zombifier> aosdict: that idea looks like something that would be in the vanilla game if astral vision worked like nh4. nice
20:32 <K2> per the wiki
20:32 <K2> Astral vision, granted by wearing The Eyes of the Overworld, lets you see anything within radius 3, even if that space is dark or there are walls or boulders blocking your line of sight.
20:32 <K2> _anything_
20:32 <FIQ> ok
20:32 <aosdict> zombifier: I live to add fun edge cases to the game
20:32 <FIQ> even if invisible?
20:32 <K2> hmm
20:33 <K2> not sure
20:33 <FIQ> I will assume not
20:33 <K2> you'd need to source dive vanilla to see
20:33 <K2> it doesnt explicitly say on the wiki
20:34 <K2> so i noticed here in FIQhack the radius is 8 not 3 hah
20:34 <K2> but no monsters :/
20:34 <FIQ> pushed a fix
20:34 <K2> neat
20:34 <FIQ> the nerf was not intended
20:34 <K2> gotcha
20:34 <K2> thx
20:35 <K2> FIQhack updated
20:35 <K2> ah there we go
20:35 <K2> EotO like i am used to
20:35 <FIQ> no
20:35 <FIQ> it has a larger range
20:35 <K2> true
20:35 <K2> you could lower the radius, make it more inline with vanilla
20:35 <K2> 8 cs 3 is rather large
20:35 <K2> vs
20:35 <FIQ> why
20:36 <FIQ> the buff was intended
20:36 <K2> oh i'm not complaining
20:36 <K2> just poiting it out
20:36 <Beholder> [slex] Appleman1234 (Brd Dun Fem Cha), 137 points, T:305, killed by a wand of striking
20:36 <K2> pointing
20:36 <K2> oh i see
20:36 <FIQ> this brings eoto more in line with other neutral artifacts
20:36 <K2> so the radius bump WAS a deliberate thing
20:36 <FIQ> and astral eyesight is worth the level 7 designation
20:36 <K2> gotcha
20:36 <K2> \o/
20:36 <FIQ> (level 7 divination spell that gives xray)
20:37 <FIQ> the monster change was unintentional
20:37 <FIQ> the range buff was intended
20:37 <K2> oh so this affects the spell also
20:37 <FIQ> any xray
20:37 <K2> neat
20:37 <K2> so now i can lose this magic lamp for light
20:38 <K2> (for seeing mnonsters nearby)
20:38 <FIQ> heh
20:38 <K2> hmm what to wish for
20:38 <FIQ> a hostile djinni
20:38 <K2> hah
20:38 <FIQ> did you know
20:38 <K2> cant wish for obj properties unfortunately
20:38 <FIQ> that you can wish for magic lamps in fiqhack
20:38 <K2> lol
20:38 <K2> neat
20:38 <K2> w/ a magic lamp
20:38 <K2> infinite loop
20:38 <FIQ> 80% to get a wish
20:39 <FIQ> so yeah
20:39 <FIQ> net loss
20:39 <K2> yup
20:39 <FIQ> so I figured why not
20:39 <FIQ> I considered giving a magic lamp that was unable to give further wishes
20:39 <FIQ> but meh
20:39 <K2> oh i know what i need that i havent seen yet
20:39 <K2> wand of poly
20:40 <K2> i'll do that after i clear orcus town
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20:40 <FIQ> oh I am stupid
20:40 <FIQ> of course changes aren't saved with new rcfile update
20:40 <FIQ> because I changed the options synta
20:40 <FIQ> x
20:41 <FIQ> >_<
20:42 -!- Jonathanhanes has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20:45 <K2> heh
20:53 <K2> The Green-elf drinks a potion of gain level!                                 │
20:53 <K2> │ You hear a chugging sound.  You hear a distant squeak.                       │
20:53 <K2> │ The djinni hits the Green-elf.  The Green-elf hits the djinni.               │
20:53 <K2> │ The djinni hits the Green-elf.
20:53 <K2> hahahah
20:53 <K2> !oGA is smoky
20:53 <K2> err GL
20:54 <FIQ> haha
20:54 <FIQ> hostile djinni to elf
20:54 <FIQ> so tame to you
20:56 <zombifier> "You freed me! No, not you, the one who actually drank the potion. I'm talking about you, who stood over there and did nothing"
20:56 <K2> FIQ watch my game please want to show you something
20:56 <FIQ> zombifier: enemy of my enemy is my friend
20:57 <FIQ> K2: what
20:57 <FIQ> if it is the cut-off in conducts
20:57 <FIQ> I saw it
20:57 <K2> ok
20:57 <K2> that was what i wanted you to see
20:57 <FIQ> no idea why that happens
20:57 <FIQ> going to whine at ais once he shows up
20:57 <K2> :)
20:57 <FIQ> because he know the windowing system better than me
20:57 <FIQ> *knows
20:58 <K2> ah shit
20:58 <K2> somehow rodney was awakened
21:01 <jonadab> FIQ: I could potentially be convinced to add a cp437 tileset.  Or an 8859-1 tileset.
21:01 <jonadab> But I refuse to assume that the "Unicode" tileset will normally be used by people whose terminals don't speak Unicode.
21:01 <FIQ> jonadab: >50% of fiqhack players play with terminals not supporting unicode
21:02 <jonadab> Well, as I said, I could potentially be convinced to add a cp437 tileset.  Or an 8859-1 tileset.
21:02 <FIQ> or just an "enhanced graphics" tileset that is basically the current one (minus your changes)
21:02 <FIQ> as a default
21:02 <FIQ> and a seperate, unicode, tileset
21:02 <jonadab> If I change the default, I'll change it to ASCII.
21:02 <FIQ> this is not a change of default
21:03 <FIQ> it is recognizing unicode as a new tileset
21:03 <jonadab> Ok, let me rephrase:  only two character sets make sense as a default:  ASCII, or UTF-8.
21:04 <jonadab> Software that defaults to things like 8859-1 or CP437 or shift-JIS, in 2017, is bad software.
21:04 <FIQ> libuncursed handles CP437 sanely
21:05 <FIQ> jonadab: note that I use unicode by default, so I'm personally not affected by your change
21:05 <FIQ> but I think it's a bad change
21:05 <jonadab> It seems to handle Unicode alright.  I _tested_ my changes.
21:05 <FIQ> (just saying in case you think the reason I am against it is personal)
21:05 <jonadab> No, I knew you weren't a Windows user.
21:06 <jonadab> I'm assuming anybody whose default charset is CP437 is on Windows.
21:06 <FIQ> jonadab: your change affects K2, hothraxxa (I think), MTF, others
21:06 <FIQ> Good Luck getting all of these to switch
21:06 <FIQ> look at dynahack
21:06 <jonadab> I'll just add a CP437 tileset.
21:06 <FIQ> dynahack assumes unicode
21:06 <FIQ> real unicode
21:06 <jonadab> They can use that, if they don't want to set their terminals to UTF-8.
21:06 <FIQ> it breaks horribly on people
21:07 <jonadab> I may also change the default to ASCII, which really is what it should be, honestly.
21:07 <K2> CP437 is significantly popular
21:07 <FIQ> what you're doing is regressing back to the nitrohack way of handling things
21:07 <jonadab> K2: CP437 is a horrible legacy encoding that needs to die by the year 2010.
21:07 <FIQ> defaulting to ASCII is stupid
21:07 <jonadab> Defaulting to ASCII will work for everyone.
21:07 <FIQ> when libuncursed can clearly handle enhanced encoding fine in 99% of cases
21:07 <jonadab> And if they want one of the other tilesets, well, there's the tileset option.
21:07 <K2> but it looks better than any other encoding. not just my opinion but a _lot_ of others as well
21:08 <FIQ> K2: not true
21:08 <FIQ> unicode is a superset of cp437
21:08 <K2> its relative
21:08 <jonadab> K2: It doesn't have characters that Unicode lacks.
21:08 <FIQ> it has cp437 and more
21:08 <K2> anyways
21:08 <FIQ> but cp437 is used *a lot*
21:08 <FIQ> by a lot of people
21:08 <K2> options = best of everything
21:08 <FIQ> I would personally consider an ascii default setting dumb
21:08 <jonadab> The old IBM Extended ASCII that DOS used had like two characters that Unicode lacks, but CP437 also lacks them.
21:08 <FIQ> over the existing cp437 default
21:08 <K2> give users the OPTION to pick what they want to render
21:09 <FIQ> K2: I don't mind an unicode option
21:09 <FIQ> But it shouldn't be default
21:09 <K2> sure
21:09 <jonadab> K2: Yes, the option will be there.
21:09 <FIQ> Nor should ascii
21:09 <FIQ> The current one should be
21:09 <K2> so long as the OPTION exists
21:09 <jonadab> FIQ: CP437 as a default is brain-damaged.
21:09 <jonadab> It's like it's 1999 all over again.
21:09 <FIQ> jonadab: CP437 is a misnormer
21:09 <FIQ> I'd rather call it "enhanced graphics" or whatever
21:10 <FIQ> it parses as CP437 for people w/o unicode-enabled terminals
21:10 <FIQ> and as unicode for unicode-enabled ones
21:10 <jonadab> What happens if somebody's terminal is 8859-1?
21:10 <jonadab> That's at least as popular as CP437.
21:10 <jonadab> (Not in America, but elsewhere.)
21:10 <FIQ> I am pretty sure putty default is 8859-1
21:11 <FIQ> but not sure
21:11 <FIQ> jonadab: I'm not exactly sure how libuncursed accomplishes what it does
21:11 <jonadab> There's also the other one that's 8859-1 except with one character changed to euro sign.
21:11 <FIQ> but it checks the terminal encoding by a hack
21:11 <jonadab> 8859-n where I forget n.
21:11 <FIQ> and if it recognizes unicode
21:11 <FIQ> then it renders, well, unicode
21:12 <FIQ> if not, maybe it tells the terminal to switch encoding
21:12 <FIQ> not sure
21:12 <FIQ> but point is, if it fails, it fallbacks to cp437
21:12 <FIQ> and it works pretty much everywhere
21:12 <jonadab> Hmm.
21:12 <FIQ> I've not seen any terminal fail on this with default settings
21:12 <FIQ> actually, there was one weird windows terminal
21:12 <FIQ> that failed
21:13 <FIQ> but it failed miserably with libuncursed in general
21:13 <FIQ> jonadab: actually
21:14 <FIQ> you can check this
21:14 <FIQ> the SDL version works as if it was cp437
21:14 <FIQ> what happens in it
21:15 <FIQ> jonadab: if the nh4 tileset was truly unicode
21:15 <FIQ> and cp437 simply didn't work on it
21:15 <FIQ> then yes, I'd agree, default to ascii and no need to make a cp437 tileset (allthough if you felt like it, eh)
21:16 <FIQ> but that's not really what happens
21:16 <FIQ> on cp437 terminals now playing 4k, everything will work fine
21:16 <FIQ> until they encounter dragons
21:16 <FIQ> I don't know what happens then
21:16 <FIQ> maybe it renders as ' '
21:16 <FIQ> or ?
21:16 <FIQ> or something else
21:17 <jonadab> Dunno.  I don't have a terminal that antequated to test on.
21:18 <FIQ> +FIQ │ the SDL version works as if it was cp437
21:18 <jonadab> I mean, if I ssh in from a Windows system somewhere I could test on Putty, I guess.
21:18 <jonadab> Oh, the SDL version, hmm.
21:18 <jonadab> And you fixed that so it doesn't take three and a half hours to start a game.
21:18 <jonadab> So I have no excuse.
21:18 <FIQ> and removed the Blink All The Time feature
21:19 <jonadab> Yes.
21:19 <jonadab> That was the feature that made it take forever to do anything.
21:24 <FIQ> jonadab: so how does it break
21:24 <Beholder> [fh] noty (Ran Elf Mal Cha), 28970 points, T:1809, killed by a hill orc
21:25 <FIQ> noty: there is no longer an incentive against naming sting
21:25 <FIQ> besides dagger unrestriction
21:26 <noty> ah right
21:32 <FIQ> also remember that autoswap is a thing
21:33 <noty> that's the entire reason I've been playing rangers
21:33 <FIQ> ah
21:33 <FIQ> I guess you're familiar with it then
21:33 <noty> it's amazing how much difference something small like that makes
21:34 <FIQ> !tell Tangles did you see the link I gave earlier with curses in 3.6?
21:34 <Beholder> Will do, FIQ!
21:35 <Beholder> [fh] K2 (k2) (Mon Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed wand of polymorph", on T:28045
21:35 <K2> throne wish, vlad
21:35 <K2> wooot
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21:51 <FIQ> noty: did you turn off hilite_obj_piles or did stuff break?
21:54 <FIQ> draw_piles that is
21:55 <noty> FIQ: I haven't touched it
21:55 <FIQ> hmm
21:55 <FIQ> ok
21:55 <FIQ> well it seemed like in mines that it randomly broke
21:55 <FIQ> maybe I misread
21:55 <FIQ> was spectating you, sorry
21:55 <noty> no, I think it did?
21:55 <FIQ> hm
21:55 <FIQ> ok, need to look into it later
21:56 <noty> it doesn't work if it's a pile from dead monsters I think
21:56 <FIQ> interesting
21:57 <noty> now it's not working at all, hm
21:58 <FIQ> I think it's generally working
21:58 <FIQ> just there is some case I am missing
21:58 <FIQ> to refresh object pile state
21:58 <noty> oooooh
21:58 <noty> it stops working if you walk onto the pile
21:59 <FIQ> ah, huh
21:59 <noty> wait no
21:59 <noty> that's my arrows, sorry
21:59 <noty> no wait
21:59 <noty> yes, that is the cause
21:59 <FIQ> hmm that is very odd
21:59 <K2> fuck me
22:00 <K2> orcus dropped me from 19 to 12
22:00 <K2> lvl
22:00 <FIQ> K2: note that leveling up in fiqhack speeds up if you're drained
22:00 <FIQ> it speeds up more the more you're drained
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22:00 <K2> hope so
22:00 <FIQ> if you lost 7 levels
22:00 <FIQ> xp gain rate is x128
22:00 <K2> hah
22:01 <FIQ> x64 after a level up, then x32, then x16, etc
22:01 <FIQ> basically
22:01 <FIQ> doubles per level
22:01 <K2> exponential
22:01 <K2> good thing i killed him when i did
22:01 <K2> he had 2 more charges
22:01 <FIQ> he probably got a blessed wand
22:01 <K2> i wouldnt know because fuck ID
22:02 <FIQ> lol
22:02 <FIQ> you also dislike the altar?
22:03 <K2> no but its inconvienient
22:06 <FIQ> noty: it's weirder than that
22:07 <noty> oh?
22:10 <K2> ok so back up to 17 already
22:10 <K2> and it looks like skill training wasnt affected
22:10 <K2> ok so not so evil
22:12 <FIQ> noty: well, kind of
22:12 <FIQ> the problem manifests as you explain it
22:12 <FIQ> but the square is still identified correctly as holding a pile or not
22:12 <FIQ> if you farlook it (which is tied to the same thing)
22:13 <FIQ> for whatever reason, the branding is buggy
22:13 <FIQ> I don't understand this at all
22:13 <noty> FIQ: now I'm blind and it seems to be working fine?
22:14 <FIQ> noty: it always works fine, pile state update-wise
22:14 <FIQ> if you farlook
22:14 <noty> FIQ: I mean on the interface
22:14 <FIQ> yeah
22:14 <FIQ> that might be true
22:14 <FIQ> not really sure what's goign on
22:14 <FIQ> *going on
22:14 <noty> though if I make a new pile it doesn't work
22:14 <FIQ> trying to figure this out
22:14 <FIQ> try farlook it
22:14 <FIQ> just to see if it's OK that way
22:15 <FIQ> "on other objects" means it's identified+remembered as an object pile
22:16 <noty> FIQ: both the marked and unmarked one are "on other objects"
22:16 <FIQ> mhm
22:23 <K2> FIQ does wand skill have any bearing on polypiling
22:25 <FIQ> no
22:25 <K2> ok
22:25 <K2> ty
22:25 <FIQ> noty: yeah sorry, I'm not sure what's going on to be honest
22:25 <FIQ> and it's 4:25 atm
22:26 <FIQ> if it's annoying, I guess you can turn it off for now
22:27 <noty> FIQ: no need to apologize
22:27 <noty> it's not like it affects gameplay in any way
22:43 <Beholder> [slex] dolores (Cha Ang Fem Cha), 5530 points, T:2334, killed by an elven arrow
23:09 <K2> hah
23:10 <K2> tame speeded up black dragon let loose in the zoo in wizards tower
23:10 <K2> disintegrating everything
23:10 <K2> beautiful
23:22 <loli> K2: how far are you
23:23 <loli> I've had your game up on my far right scree
23:23 <loli> and you've been at it for a while
23:23 <K2> i *just* killed the wizard for first time
23:23 <K2> got the book
23:23 <loli> congrats
23:23 <K2> thx
23:24 <loli> only -28 ac?
23:24 <K2> yup
23:24 <loli> isn't that a bit too low?
23:24 <K2> a bit
23:24 <K2> but not too bad
23:24 <K2> monks shouldnt wear body armor
23:24 <loli> ahh
23:24 <loli> no body armor
23:24 <loli> that's good then
23:24 <K2> i know some players will wear it at high levels, but going weaponless i want to be absoltely sure i hit every time
23:27 <bug_sniper> k2, what was that aportal to?
23:27 <K2> entrance to/from WoY tower
23:28 <loli> my god the replay
23:28 <loli> just goes past everyhting super fast
23:28 <bug_sniper> I see
23:28 <K2> yeah nh4 replay is... different
23:32 <K2> hmm
23:32 <K2> is invocation different in FIQhack?
23:34 <K2> maybe the book was cursed and i didnt realize it (yay FIQhack new ID system)
23:35 <Beholder> [fh] K2 (k2) (Mon Hum Mal Neu) performed the invocation, on T:30828
23:35 <K2> there we go
23:36 <K2> lol dammit i want my dragon with me
23:37 <K2> screw it
23:41 <bug_sniper> !commands
23:41 <Beholder> bug_sniper: available commands are !help !ping !time !pom !hello !booze !beer !potion !tea !coffee !whiskey !vodka !rum !tequila !scotch !goat !lotg !d(1-1000) !(1-50)d(1-1000) !8ball !rng !role !race !variant !tell !source !lastgame !lastasc !streak !rcedit !scores !sb !setmintc !whereis !players !who !commands
23:42 <bug_sniper> !8ball should K2 name his pets?
23:42 <Beholder> bug_sniper: Without a doubt
23:42 <K2> lol all of them?
23:42 <K2> I had billy the black dragon and carl the purple worm
23:42 <bug_sniper> I think amy names all of them by picking a random person in the irc channel
23:43 <K2> team splat usually names our pets after teammates
23:44 <bug_sniper> amy doesn't, and named something ilbelkyr or bcode
23:46 <K2> so making zombies as pets in FIQhack is a Good Thing™
23:46 <K2> neat
23:46 <K2> enslaved army
23:47 <K2> i'm going slower than usual, as i've never made it this far in FIQhack before
23:49 <loli> do zombies infect other things here?
23:49 <loli> ie making infinite pets?
23:50 <loli> how do you even go up the stiars with them!??!
23:51 <K2> if they are next to you, pets will follow
23:51 <loli> but you have so many
23:54 <bug_sniper> they aren't following him
23:54 <loli> pets always kinda annoyed me
23:54 <Beholder> [fh] noty (Ran Elf Mal Cha), 67586 points, T:15888, killed by a winged gargoyle
23:54 <loli> since you always have to wait for them
23:55 <K2> where the hell did my wand of tele go
23:55 <K2> hmm
23:56 <loli> is going up the dungeon easy?
23:59 <K2> depends, but usually no not at all until after you get out of gehennom
23:59 <K2> FIQ got rid of the mysterious force
00:21 <loli> how do you know the layout of everyfloor?
00:22 <K2> i explore them
00:23 <K2> or in this case i have magic mapping spell
00:23 <loli> ahh
00:23 <loli> that would make sense
00:23 <K2> but i like to explore
00:23 <loli> moreso than I do
00:23 <K2> 30k or so turns is a speedrun for me ;)
00:23 <loli> I'm usually having to move early due to a multitude of reasons
00:23 <loli> amy does about 30-40k
00:23 <loli> so that's not bad
00:24 <loli> also it's weird to see the game without walls
00:24 <loli> I'm used to , for the passages
00:24 <loli> and # next to them
00:24 <K2> yup
00:24 <K2> and i cant stand that
00:24 <loli> lol
00:24 <K2> slex is the only variant that enforces those by default
00:24 <loli> what do you think of the kuwa class
00:24 <K2> never played it
00:25 <loli> it removes walls at lvl 4
00:25 <loli> before a greyout in lvl 6
00:25 <K2> my slex experience is very limited at best
00:25 <K2> brb need to stretch and get a drink
00:27 <loli> also do other variants tell you the attack strength of the monsters?
00:27 <loli> It's nice to / . a monster and have it tell you damage ranges of all it's attacks
00:27 <K2> no
00:28 <loli> do you just memorize those?
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00:29 <K2> nope
00:29 <loli> then how do you know if something is a threat?
00:29 <K2> i just have a good understanding of what hits hard and what doesnt
00:29 <K2> heya raisse
00:29 <loli> I guess there aren't as many creatures 
00:29 <K2> true
00:30 <loli> so you could just be like T
00:30 <loli> i know what T's do
00:30 <K2> slex has more monsters by a factor of 10 prob
00:30 <loli> in slex T's can be either weak or strong
00:30 <K2> there are 4 types of T in vanilla and most variants
00:30 <loli> over 14k monsters
00:30 <loli> she said earlier today
00:30 <K2> troll/ice troll/rock troll/water troll
00:30 <K2> rock trolls are nasty
00:30 <loli> she didn't realize UGODS can go through walls
00:30 <loli> and are bullshit
00:31 <K2> 14k ugh
00:31 <loli> I like it
00:31 <K2> thats a lot of coding
00:31 <loli> want to see the worst dlvl2
00:31 <loli> yup
00:31 <K2> sure
00:31 <loli> I guess you can remove boilerplate
00:31 <loli> https://puu.sh/x7NfE/593a362244.png
00:31 <loli> over 900 monsters spawned this game
00:31 <loli> I bet 800 on this one floor
00:31 <loli> I normally only get 450~ on my 12 floor runs
00:31 <K2> good lord
00:31 <loli> isn't that fucking scary
00:32 <loli> I tried to do the <
00:32 <loli> > charm monsters
00:32 <loli> get hit
00:32 <loli> < 
00:32 <loli> but then it wouldn't let me go back upstairs
00:32 <K2> depends, are these strong monsters? 
00:32 <loli> and I got hit with amnesia
00:32 <loli> so I forgot how to charm
00:32 <loli> kinda
00:32 <loli> D's are baby dragons
00:32 <loli> H are mini giants
00:32 <K2> was about to ask
00:32 <loli> l are leperchauns of all types!
00:33 <loli> some hit 1d2 some hit 1d4 1d5
00:33 <loli> 1d4 1d4 I think
00:33 <loli> the bottom is a cluster fuck
00:33 <K2> with an AC of 9 thats a problem
00:33 <loli> yeah
00:33 <loli> and I couldn't go back upstairs
00:33 <loli> because reasons
00:33 <K2> heh
00:33 <loli> that red l was on the stiars
00:33 <loli> stairs*
00:33 <K2> i'd try to get into a narrow hallway
00:33 <K2> but yeah
00:33 <loli> what hallway?
00:33 <K2> this has all sorts of foobar all over it
00:33 <loli> I told amy about it
00:34 <loli> of 
00:34 <K2> hahah no hallway
00:34 <loli> "what should I do"
00:34 <loli> whenever she gets back
00:34 <loli> every room
00:34 <loli> has monsters
00:34 <loli> I swear it had at least 800 monsters
00:34 <K2> i would get a stiff drink
00:34 <loli> I bet the entire map was filled 
00:34 <loli> hahaha
00:34 <loli> you are close to winning
00:34 <loli> go for it!
00:34 <loli> genocide the wizard?
00:34 <loli> have you beaten this game before?
00:37 <K2> heh if you genocide the wizard you'll geno yourself
00:37 <K2> but i am pretty sure the game wont allow that anyways
00:38 <K2> and no i havent ascended FIQhack before
00:38 <loli> :(
00:38 <K2> havent played it very much
00:38 <loli> aah
00:38 <K2> i was on my grunthack kick for pretty much an entire year
00:38 <loli> what made you stop your kick
00:38 <loli> and how different do the different versions of nethack feel?
00:38 <loli> are they smey?
00:39 <loli> samey*
00:39 <K2> i've ascended every role in grunthack
00:39 <K2> was time to move on ;)
00:39 <loli> hahah
00:39 <loli> nice
00:40 <K2> https://scoreboard.xd.cm/zscore.gh.html
00:40 <loli> lol
00:40 <loli> congrats
00:40 <K2> and each variant feels different from the rest
00:40 <K2> heh thanks
00:40 <K2> except being maybe nethack 4
00:40 <loli> I see
00:40 <loli> one day after I kick slex
00:40 <K2> its basically vanilla 3.4.3 on nh4 codebase
00:40 <loli> I'll try other variants
00:40 <loli> hopefully I won't get bored
00:40 <loli> I have a feeling they are quite the different game
00:41 <K2> given how difficult slex is
00:41 <K2> you should prob try vanilla first
00:41 <loli> it seems to be a different kind of difficulty?
00:41 <loli> like I can abuse some slex mechanics
00:41 <loli> like knowing the damage ranges of all enemies
00:41 <loli> and relying on less knowledge plays
00:41 <loli> I guess
00:41 <K2> unnethack is a fun variant also, i highly recommend it
00:41 <loli> base nethack due to having less stuff is more memorizery?
00:41 <K2> extra levels and monsters, etc
00:41 <loli> that's the version I would play if anything
00:41 <loli> due to the default config being nice
00:42 <loli> at least if I wanted vanilla
00:42 <loli> and not some mod
00:45 <loli> oh you can run
00:45 <loli> that's cool
00:45 <loli> did you name your dragon after me?
00:45 <K2> hehyup
00:45 <loli> haha, nice
00:46 <loli> only pet who has followed you from hell and back
00:46 <K2> i had you bug_sniper and hothraxxa at once point
00:46 <loli> they got left in hell, eh?
00:46 <K2> oh and a titan named Amy
00:46 <K2> yeah
00:46 <loli> hahaha
00:46 <K2> they wouldnt do well on the planes
00:46 <K2> but amy the titan looked at medusa and was turned to stone
00:46 <loli> Amy would just cast spells and trample everyone
00:46 <loli> :(
00:46 <K2> she'd bumndlebundlebundle
00:46 <K2> or whatever the hell that is
00:47 <loli> hair bundles
00:47 <K2> i had no clue wtf that was
00:47 <K2> until i asked
00:47 <loli> haha
00:47 <loli> me neither
00:47 <loli> how much is hunger an issue in vanilla/unnethack
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00:50 <K2> its always an issue no matter the variant
00:50 <K2> ring of slow digestion is one of my personal must haves
00:50 <loli> that was one thing I really liked about unnethack
00:50 <loli> was starting with a ring of digestion
00:50 <loli> at random
00:50 <loli> though it seems that spells are kinda weird in nethack
00:51 <loli> since you have to purposefully lower your ac
00:51 <loli> to have nice spell casting?
00:51 <K2> its based on original d&d rules
00:52 <K2> nh4 codebase goes the other way, like newer editions of ad&d
00:52 <loli> I see
00:52 <K2> FIQ made it so players can do 'classic' mode look n' feel
00:52 <loli> I don't really know my DND to well
00:52 <K2> thats what i like
00:52 <K2> classic mode
00:52 <loli> too*
00:53 <K2> i used to play the original d&d and then 1st edition ad&d back in the early 80's
00:53 <loli> so I'm guessing you know the rule set quite well
00:53 <loli> are all nethack monsters derived from that source?
00:53 <Tarmunora> Not all
00:54 <Tarmunora> Eg: Mordor Orcs
00:54 <K2> a lot yes, but not all. and really they're all just inspiration
00:55 <K2> nethack definitely has its roots in d&d but the rules are altered
00:55 <K2> i remember playing hack for the first time ever
00:56 <K2> (hack is precursor to nethack)
00:56 <loli> how was that
00:56 <K2> primitive compared to what we have now
00:56 <K2> but back then... hah
00:56 <K2> daaaaamn
00:56 <K2> it was awesome
00:56 <K2> frank wang, my neighbor. he introduced it to me
00:57 <K2> pulled it off of university bbc
00:57 <loli> I like how you remember how you got into
00:57 <loli> it
00:57 <K2> oh yeah, cant forget
00:57 <loli> did he now
00:57 <K2> well back then that was how shareware/freeware was spread
00:58 <K2> no internet
00:58 <Tarmunora> NetHack 3 is older than I am
00:58 <K2> well
00:58 <K2> not like today's internet
00:58 <K2> you should read the history of nethack
00:58 <loli> I might at some point
00:58 <K2> i was... 13? 14 yrs old
00:58 <K2> when i first played hack
00:59 <loli> I was introduced to nethack when I was 16-7~ when I first played nethack/unnethack
00:59 <loli> got my first linux distro!
00:59 <loli> before moving to arch
01:00 <loli> oh look a jerk who wants to die
01:00 <loli> you can cast quit ewell
01:00 <loli> that's cool you can see allies hp
01:03 <K2> how old are you now?
01:04 <Beholder> [fh] K2 (k2) (Mon Hum Mal Neu) entered the Planes, on T:33546
01:04 <loli> 21 or so
01:04 <loli> congrats
01:04 <loli> planes
01:04 <K2> thx
01:04 <loli> huh
01:04 <K2> 21 'or so' ;)
01:04 <K2> ok so
01:04 <loli> I thought the planes was down in hell
01:04 <loli> so someone besides amy got to this point in slex
01:04 <K2> i am 20 to 50 or so
01:04 <loli> you have a kid or going to have one soon
01:05 <loli> so I can chop off a lot~
01:05 <K2> i have a 5 yr old that I know about
01:05 <loli> haha
01:05 <loli> you might have a 7 yo
01:05 <K2> might be a couple others, not sure
01:05 <loli> somewhere
01:05 <K2> um they'd be close to your age actually by now
01:05 <loli> nice
01:05 <K2> yeah
01:05 <K2> i was a male whole back in the day
01:05 <K2> whore
01:05 <K2> whole
01:05 <K2> whatever
01:06 <K2> anyways
01:06 <loli> haha
01:06 <K2> ;)
01:06 <loli> the weight in unnethack feels low
01:06 <K2> now i am a responsible adult... HAHAHAH
01:06 <loli> encourbered over nothing
01:06 <loli> haha, sucks to be you
01:06 <K2> nah
01:06 <K2> been there/done that
01:07 <K2> its nice to be chill nowadays
01:07 <K2> raise my kid watch her grow
01:07 <K2> warn her about biys like me
01:07 <K2> boys
01:07 <loli> hahah
01:07 <loli> isn't that something
01:07 <K2> it is
01:07 <K2> love it
01:08 <loli> death wands
01:08 <loli> wahahaha
01:08 <loli> damn
01:08 <loli> the wixard is dead
01:08 <loli> Q_Q
01:08 <loli> I'm dead
01:08 <K2> shit
01:08 <K2> was afraid of that
01:08 <loli> madness
01:09 <loli> and chaos!
01:09 <K2> ah well
01:09 <loli> haha
01:09 <K2> i can get more pets
01:09 <loli> who really needs pets at this point
01:10 <K2> oh 
01:10 <K2> you'll see
01:10 <K2> wait til i get to astral
01:10 <K2> you're in for a treat
01:10 <K2> trick that Grasshopper showed me
01:10 <K2> 'purple rain'
01:10 <loli> oh?
01:10 <K2> mmm hmm
01:10 <K2> not gonna ruin surprise
01:10 <K2> ok here we go
01:11 <Tarmunora> !lotg K2
01:11 <Beholder> May the Luck of the Grasshopper be with you always, K2!
01:11 <K2> thx!
01:11 <K2> damn i transgressed
01:11 <K2> my deity is *pissed*
01:12 <K2> i need to be careful
01:12 <loli> geez
01:12 <loli> I wonder why
01:12 <Tarmunora> Ate too much meat?
01:12 <K2> :)
01:12 <K2> accidentally killed my pet dragon
01:12 <Tarmunora> Ah
01:12 <loli> attacking magic eyes in slex is much more fogiving
01:12 <loli> than in unnethack
01:12 <loli> so is carrying weight
01:13 <loli> nice
01:13 <loli> just making your own route
01:13 <Tarmunora> [something] in slex is much more fogiving
01:13 <Tarmunora> Never thought I'd hear that
01:13 <loli> it's true
01:13 <loli> is carrying weight always so annoying in other variants?
01:13 <Tarmunora> YES
01:13 <loli> in slex I just carry around a chest
01:14 <loli> put everyhitg in 
01:14 <Tarmunora> Well, it's a mechanic you need to manage in other varients
01:14 <loli> so things don't become #
01:14 <loli> huh
01:14 <loli> how do you cope without having a big inventory/
01:14 <Tarmunora> BoH
01:14 <loli> I've never had one of those
01:15 <Tarmunora> The varient I play, dNethack, has a couple other solutions
01:15 <loli> why did amy decide to say fuck carrying weight
01:15 <loli> make it really high
01:15 <loli> found it annoying?
01:15 <Tarmunora> There's an artifact that grants 1.5x carrying capacity, and there are 'magic chests' throughout the dungeon that have a shared inventory for stashing
01:15 <loli> ahh
01:15 <loli> that sounds nice
01:15 <loli> I guess you make stashes
01:15 <loli> in other variants
01:15 <loli> right?
01:16 <Tarmunora> Stashes can be useful
01:16 <Tarmunora> But figuring out what you NEED to keep with you is just part of the game in most varients other than slex
01:16 <loli> I see
01:17 <loli> that sounds like it could get tedious
01:17 <Tarmunora> slex is just weird
01:17 <loli> slex seems to be chill in the right places
01:17 <loli> I really like knowing how dangerous everything is
01:17 <loli> without having to memorize
01:17 <loli> What are E's  here?
01:17 <Tarmunora> The pokedex and the inventory lookup features are really nice ideas
01:18 <Tarmunora> E's are usually elementals?
01:18 <loli> inventory?
01:18 <loli> I haven't really abused those
01:18 <loli> I don't think
01:18 <loli> it does annoy me when creatures can do damage outside of their range of the pokedex
01:18 <loli> does AC reduce dmg or just cause you to dodge in other variants
01:18 <loli> in slex it's just dodge
01:18 <loli> it seems
01:19 <Tarmunora> I think it gives damage reduction in most
01:19 <loli> I am right that it's just dodge in slex, right?
01:19 <Tarmunora> No clue
01:19 <loli> it seems things get rolled
01:19 <Tarmunora> Say, do you have python/spyder on your computer?
01:20 <loli> I have python installed, yes
01:20 <loli> it's a dependency for things
01:20 <bug_sniper> what plane is k2 on?
01:20 <Tarmunora> If you ever try dNethack, ask Nero for his monster lookup program
01:20 <bug_sniper> plane of air
01:20 <loli> ahh I see
01:21 <bug_sniper> !lotg k2
01:21 <Beholder> May the Luck of the Grasshopper be with you always, k2!
01:21 <K2> thanks bug_sniper!
01:21 <loli> this place looks interesting
01:22 <K2> it is a silly place
01:22 <loli> has anyone made co-op nethack?
01:22 <K2> let us leave this place
01:22 <K2> yes
01:22 <K2> acehack
01:22 <loli> did it go well?
01:22 <K2> no idea
01:22 <loli> might be a fun idea
01:22 <bug_sniper> I don't know why the plane of fire isn't completely lit
01:22 <loli> or give the dev tools to screw with you
01:22 <Tarmunora> How would that even work? Need both players to make input before the turn moves?
01:22 <loli> or play against a dm
01:22 <loli> yup
01:22 <bug_sniper> or why the lava isn't its own light source
01:23 <loli> water
01:23 <Tarmunora> There goes 90% of the hostiles there
01:24 <loli> I hope you can fly K2
01:24 <loli> this level seems strange
01:24 <K2> i am levitating
01:25 <bug_sniper> can a bubble close with you inside it?
01:25 <Tarmunora> loli: have you never had an ascension?
01:25 <loli> I'm new
01:25 <loli> and I only play slex
01:25 <loli> relaly
01:25 <loli> really*
01:25 <Tarmunora> Ah
01:25 <loli> I haven't really touched much else
01:25 <bug_sniper> I've had an almost-ascension in nethack 3.4.3
01:25 <loli> a bit of unnethack and that's about it
01:26 <loli> I  wonder what you must be like after getting back to the surface
01:26 <Beholder> [fh] K2 (k2) (Mon Hum Mal Neu) reached the Astral Plane, on T:33839
01:26 <bug_sniper> loli, have you completed sokoban in slex, or the quest?
01:26 <loli> must be the strongest creature alive
01:26 <loli> he's now on the planes?
01:26 <K2> weee
01:26 <loli> bug_sniper: I've gotten to the convict quest
01:26 <bug_sniper> let me see if k2 conflicts away the angel
01:26 <K2> ok one last stretch
01:26 <loli> bug_sniper: the gods have stopped me from sokobon
01:26 <K2> i never found a ring of conflict this game :(
01:26 <loli> bug_sniper: is there anything special about slex's sokobon
01:26 <bug_sniper> nicedid you beat the convict quest?
01:27 <Tarmunora> That what wishing is fir!
01:27 <loli> amy and I had the worst sokobon level2
01:27 <Tarmunora> *for
01:27 <loli> no I died
01:27 <loli> I got it on dlvl4 bug_sniper 
01:27 <loli> and got killed trying to leave by a greater mimic
01:27 <loli> Angels are friends
01:27 <loli> ... I hope
01:27 <bug_sniper> loli, yes. It's different because it can have special rooms in it like shops
01:27 <loli> our god should like us
01:27 <loli> oh?
01:27 <loli> is that why she keeps pushing me towards finish sokobon
01:27 <K2> ok. loli, get ready for purple rain
01:27 <bug_sniper> and the levels may not be lit or memorized in slex before you get there
01:28 <loli> chugga chugga
01:28 <loli> bug_sniper: ???
01:28 <loli> what do you mean
01:28 <Tarmunora> reverse geno purple worms?
01:28 <loli> let's see what you are going to do
01:28 <bug_sniper> also, the walls may be water, lava, or ice in slex
01:29 <loli> purple worm
01:29 <loli> oh god
01:29 <loli> what are you going to do
01:29 <Tarmunora> Beautiful
01:29 <K2> i have 3 more cursed scrolls of geno to burn
01:30 <loli> so after you get to the surface, why does your god let the wizard fuck with you?
01:30 <bug_sniper> k2, your angel will hate you for what you're doing
01:30 <K2> heh
01:30 <loli> what
01:31 <loli> why when you call them
01:31 <loli> genocide* 
01:31 <bug_sniper> nevermind, you're not conflicting the purple worms
01:31 <loli> they send you some
01:31 <K2> yup
01:31 <loli> genociding purple worms spawns them?
01:31 <bug_sniper> !commands
01:31 <Beholder> bug_sniper: available commands are !help !ping !time !pom !hello !booze !beer !potion !tea !coffee !whiskey !vodka !rum !tequila !scotch !goat !lotg !d(1-1000) !(1-50)d(1-1000) !8ball !rng !role !race !variant !tell !source !lastgame !lastasc !streak !rcedit !scores !sb !setmintc !whereis !players !who !commands
01:32 <bug_sniper> I wish we had a revgeno command here and not just on #nethack
01:32 <K2> gah
01:32 <K2> ozzy picks now to be a lap dog
01:32 <loli> ??
01:32 <loli> aahhh
01:32 <K2> ok he's down
01:33 <loli> haha
01:33 <K2> ozzy is my 105 lbs german shepherd
01:33 <K2> he's a big baby
01:33 <Tarmunora> !8ball will K2 get lucky on the first altar?
01:33 <Beholder> Tarmunora: As I see it, yes
01:33 <loli> basically my weight
01:33 <loli> lol
01:33 <K2> heh
01:33 <loli> first alter
01:33 <loli> I used to be 100 lbs for years
01:34 <bug_sniper> that's very light
01:34 <loli> yup~
01:34 <loli> still am not much fatter
01:35 <bug_sniper> !8ball will k2 sacrifice at a crossaligned alter?
01:35 <Beholder> bug_sniper: Outlook good
01:36 <Tarmunora> !8ball will K2 make it to an altar?
01:36 <Beholder> Tarmunora: Better not tell you now
01:36 <bug_sniper> can pestillence attack your pets?
01:38 <bug_sniper> !8ball does K2 like playing variants where your pets can be attacked first?
01:38 <Beholder> bug_sniper: Yes definitely
01:39 <K2> hahahahaha
01:39 <Tarmunora> Congrats K2
01:39 <loli> congrats
01:39 <loli> what even is this
01:39 <loli> entire blue room
01:39 <loli> hahah
01:39 <Tarmunora> Shoulda offered the lizard
01:39 <loli> you are a demigod
01:40 <loli> why does your god want the amulet so badly/
01:40 <Tarmunora> only 857 points lost
01:40 <Beholder> [fh] K2 (k2) (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 265380 points, T:33939, ascended
https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/fiqhack/dumplog/2017-08-12%2005%3A40%3A25%2C%20K2-Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu%2C%20ascended.txt
01:40 <Tarmunora> Nice, 7th place!
01:40 <loli> congrats
01:40 <K2> thanks all!!
01:40 <Tarmunora> !potion K2
01:40 * Beholder tosses K2 a potion of gain level, brewed by Arsinoe at -11 degrees Celsius.
01:41 <K2> ;)
01:41 <K2> perfect
01:41 <K2> and i think, this is the first ever monk asc in FIQhack
01:41 <K2> ever
01:41 <Tarmunora> Nice
01:41 <loli> really?
01:41 <loli> congrats
01:41 <K2> yup
01:41 <loli> 2064 creatures vanquished.    
01:41 <loli> not too many creatures you've killed
01:41 <K2> https://scoreboard.xd.cm/firstasc.fh.html
01:42 <K2> it'll take a few min for my game to show there
01:42 <loli> you needed that 1 level
01:42 <loli> to go back to level 30
01:42 <K2> heh
01:43 <loli> lol K2 your game changed my terminals's color
01:43 <loli> how odd
01:43 <K2> yeah that is odd
01:43 <loli> some interfaces do that
01:43 <loli> and it bugs me
01:45 <K2> hmm
01:45 <K2> what to do now...
01:45 <K2> i still have rum in this glass
01:46 <loli> I'm guessing FIQhack is rather new
01:46 <K2> LOL
01:46 <K2> purple rain just hit my playlist
01:46 <loli> 13 in total
01:46 <loli> you were making it rain purple
01:47 <loli> ... worms that is
01:47 <K2> i didnt even use the last 2 scrolls
01:47 <loli> they were genocide monster right?
01:47 <loli> but it created worms?
01:47 <K2> if its cursed
01:47 <Tarmunora> Cursed genocide sends in whatever you try to genocide
01:47 <K2> it MAKES the monster
01:47 <loli> ahh
01:47 <loli> kek
01:47 <loli> that's awesome and scary
01:47 <loli> scary as hell
01:48 <loli> It's a shame I died so close to the end
01:48 <K2> :/
01:48 -!- Menche has joined #hardfought
01:48 <Tarmunora> I got one-shotted by a hobgoblin while eating :/
01:49 <loli> :(
01:49 <K2> hmm lemme find the picv
01:49 <K2> pic
01:49 <loli> My best run in slex got 1 shotted
01:49 <loli> IRC
01:49 <loli> might of been my second best run
01:49 <loli> wand of death, bam dead
01:50 <Tarmunora> loli: You should try some anachrononauts in dnh
01:50 <Tarmunora> What's the worst that could happen?
01:50 <loli> what's that
01:51 <K2> hah lol yes
01:51 <K2> https://www.hardfought.org/phpBB3/gallery/image/2473
01:51 <K2> look at the turn count
01:51 <loli> phase door
01:51 <loli> can you phase door in this game
01:51 <Tarmunora> What's phase door?
01:51 <K2> no, its a slex only thing
01:51 <loli> randomly tele 1 to 100 tiles away
01:51 <loli> laame
01:52 <loli> It's useful
01:52 <loli> esp if you're playing camper striker
01:52 <loli> 75% of not going on cooldown
01:52 <loli> and you need it on that trash class
01:53 <Tarmunora> Techniques are a SLASH'EM etc thing
01:53 <loli> :(
01:54 <K2> oh ddamn
01:54 <K2> that was a 6 conduct ascension
01:54 <Tarmunora> Nice
01:54 <loli> is that good?
01:54 <K2> yes
01:54 <K2> its decent
01:54 <loli> beats everything else
01:54 <K2> i've never had that many before
01:54 <loli> by at least 2
01:55 <K2> some players have knocked out 12 conduct asc
01:55 <loli> you were vegetarian all the way through?
01:55 <K2> yes
01:55 <loli> isn't finding things to eat hard?>
01:55 <K2> yes
01:56 <Tarmunora> loli: Have you ever tried slex's binder role?
01:56 <loli> nope, Tarmunora 
01:56 <loli> K2: 6th in turn count
01:57 <K2> nice
01:57 <K2> that was a fast asc for me
01:57 <K2> anything under 40k is kinda quick for me
01:58 <Tarmunora> My fastest asc in about 38k in dnh
01:58 <loli> what is the self conduct?
01:58 <Tarmunora> polyselfless
01:58 <K2> never polymorphed self
01:58 <loli> ahh
01:58 <bug_sniper> loli, did you beat your convict quest?
01:58 <loli> illiterate seems annoying
01:59 <loli> bug_sniper: died right away
01:59 <loli> tried to run since it was wayyy to early
01:59 <loli> dlvl4
01:59 <loli> the guards were getting their shotguns out
02:00 <bug_sniper> well, at least you made it there
02:01 <loli> do people foodless often?
02:02 <K2> i dont think so
02:04 <loli> what is holy water used for
02:04 <loli> and how can I create it in slex
02:04 <K2> to bless items
02:05 <K2> in slex? hopefully just like vanilla
02:05 <loli> blessed allows for extra defence?
02:05 <K2> place uncursed/cursed potions of water on a co-aligned altar and play while standing on said altar
02:05 <K2> err pray
02:05 <K2> of course need to make sure its safe to pray first
02:06 <loli> huh
02:06 <loli> okay
02:06 <K2> blessed weapons do extra damage to demon and undead types
02:06 <K2> blessed magical items tend to have their abilities heightened
02:07 <K2> https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/BUC#Blessed_items
02:07 <loli> 1d4 added is nice
02:14 <loli> anyways I'm going to bed
02:15 <K2> gnite loli
02:16 <bug_sniper> loli, you can't dip stacks of water in a single potion of holy water in slex, unlike in nethack
02:16 <bug_sniper> amy thought that was cheating so she nerfed that
02:17 <bug_sniper> well, looks like amy won't have anyone to watch playing slex, hope she doesn't get too lonely
02:21 <K2> ;)
03:49 <Mandevil> K2: Congrats on your FIQ ascension!
03:49 <K2> thanks Mandevil!
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