00:02 <bouquet> I'm not wearing a shield but I can't seem to dual wield because "You can't use two weapons while wearing a shield."
00:02 <bouquet> wtf?
00:03 <tinklebear> it's just a PSA
00:03 <bouquet> well it's PSA'ing me off!
00:03 <tinklebear> heh
00:03 <bouquet> I think I had bracers on and they shattered. Maybe a bug?
00:04 <tinklebear> argh
00:04 <tinklebear> that blows
00:06 <bouquet> very interesting... I think my AC reflects that the bracers are still on, but they're not in inventory.
00:06 <tinklebear> hobug, brobug
00:08 <tinklebear> there was this thing a couple days ago, when I broke a wielded dagger while wearing cursed lev boots, and it made my boots fall off
00:11 <bouquet> ya, my speed boots fell off when the bracers broke!
00:11 <bouquet> I was wondering why that happened.
00:11 <tinklebear> lol
00:12 <bouquet> ah, crashed my game by disrobing and then pressing "T" to auto-remove the last item.
00:13 <tinklebear> clever!
00:13 <bouquet> well, didn't fix it. Just crashed the game
00:13 <tinklebear> :(
00:13 <bouquet> oh, did fix it
00:14 <tinklebear> seriously?
00:14 <bouquet> yay! And I kept the bonus AC from the missing bracers :)
00:14 <tinklebear> sweet!
00:14 <bouquet> HAX
00:14 <tinklebear> lolol
00:14 <bouquet> gonna try that some more.
00:14 <bouquet> did your disappearing dagger happen over a caverns? Mine was in vlad-1
00:15 <tinklebear> the dagger thing was in a doorway on dlvl 1
00:17 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Dwa Mal Law) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4454 (0:39:19)
00:24 <bouquet> AC -54 with these bracers...
00:27 <bouquet> ya, it's a super HAX bug. Bracers broke, boots fell off. When I put the boots back I'm up to -54 AC but no bracers.
00:30 <tinklebear> :D
00:31 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Dwa Mal Law) murdered his faithful pony, on T:5239 (0:52:48)
00:31 -!- tinklebear has left #evilhack
00:33 <bouquet> I'm up to -58AC now
00:34 <bouquet> ah, but if I save and do the trick with the 'remove all armor' it gets set back to -52
00:34 <bouquet> If you're willing to stick with a single weapon then it could be exploited until your AC is >-100
01:03 <Umbire> K2, we might have another one lol
01:11 <K2> yup
01:11 <K2> that bug is fixed on the 0.9.1 branch
01:11 <K2> gonna backport it to 0.9.0 soon
01:13 <K2> [backscroll] illithids are mind flayers
01:15 <K2> gnite o/
01:17 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Kni Dro Mal Cha) had a silver knife entrusted to him by Lolth, on T:11161 (2:17:51)
01:27 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Dwa Mal Law) killed the Goblin King, on T:11870 (1:49:03)
01:35 <Umbire> right
01:35 <Umbire> night
01:39 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Kni Dro Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a large cave lizard, on T:12670 (2:39:36)
01:49 -!- dingotron has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:51 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Kni Dro Mal Cha), 74154 points, T:14186, killed by an energy vortex
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02:00 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Dwa Mal Law) had a dwarvish spear entrusted to him by Quetzalcoatl, on T:13928 (2:21:34)
02:08 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed]
02:11 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] HungryMotu (Mon Cen Mal Cha) killed Croesus, on T:40939 (12:55:53)
02:13 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 17485 points, T:15690, petrified by a chickatrice corpse
02:14 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack
04:52 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Monk (Mon Hum Mal Neu) had 18 steel shuriken entrusted to him by Chih Sung-tzu, on T:31837 (8:16:14)
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05:18 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) murdered her faithful violet fungus, on T:33 (0:00:24)
05:19 <Arch> K2 ran across an interesting bug, and another bug that I am not sure if is related (probably?)
05:20 <Arch> while playing a monk got the message "Your extra attack is ineffective while wearing a boulder."
05:21 <Arch> hopefully this is not a character that it lost to a bug, rather promising vegan monk start, other than not finding any food.
05:21 <Arch> may be, perhaps, related to the disappearing armor thing?
05:21 <Arch> I was wearing dark elven bracers that were destroyed
05:22 <Arch> I am a human monk. So no giant boulder stuff is involved.
05:23 <Arch> while fighting a monster in the Home Quest level the game crashed and exited to the main menu.
05:23 <Arch> And now am getting the [d]estroy [r]ecover message.
05:24 <Arch> not sure if [r]ecover for me would be the exact same thing you could do on your end.  I'd like to recover as much as possible to where I am at now i n the game.
05:26 <Arch> the wearing a boulder bug/message and the game crashing happened fairly close together, turn-wise.
05:31 <Arch> ah, OK, reading backscroll, it appears bouquet and others have experience this.  The 'wearing a boulder' thing is kinda funny, though.
05:32 <Arch> even wondered why boots were not on my feet!  lol
05:40 <Arch> really sucks to happen to a monk.  Seems this character may be toast?  backporting would not fix a current game, correct? I'd be losing my extra attacks the rest of the game.
06:03 -!- Arch has quit [Quit: Client closed]
06:24 -!- krm26 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:24 -!- krm26 has joined #evilhack
06:41 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
06:41 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Odin, on T:2666 (0:31:26)
06:49 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) had a long sword entrusted to her by Odin, on T:3217 (0:39:35)
06:54 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:3839 (0:44:37)
07:04 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed Gollum, on T:4496 (0:55:00)
07:27 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) made her first wish - "blessed amulet of magical breathing", on T:6006 (1:17:12)
07:59 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:1561 (0:07:53)
08:14 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 9820 points, T:3548, quit
08:47 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) murdered her faithful owlbear, on T:26 (0:00:21)
08:55 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:1328 (0:07:06)
09:00 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) killed the invisible Gollum, on T:1851 (0:11:22)
09:00 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 2404 points, T:1854, killed by a piranha
09:03 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Tou Hob Mal Neu), 313 points, T:959, killed by a copper elven dagger
09:20 -!- mobileuser has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
09:31 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Mon Dro Mal Cha) became literate by engraving "sdflkj", on T:3816 (0:20:50)
09:34 <K2> watching black monday happen in real time
09:34 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Mon Dro Mal Cha), 4520 points, T:4201, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted fire ant
09:34 <K2> dow jones dropped over 1100 points immediately at opening (over 3%)
09:35 <krm26> as long as the billionaires are safe! wont somebody think of the billionaires
09:35 <K2> S&P is almost at a 4% drop so far, if that happens, it'll be the first time the s&p dropped more than 4% for 3 consecutive days since the great depression nearly 100 yrs ago
09:35 <K2> krm26 ikr??
09:36 <K2> anyone relying on a 401k right now.... ugh
09:37 <K2> ooop there it is, s&p over 4% drop
09:37 <krm26> days like this i think maybe i shoulda just taken jim clarks money, at least i wouldnt have turned into an alt right douchewad like andreessen, and i could be on my own private island right now
09:37 <K2> heh
09:38 <krm26> it clearly never pays to ever think about anything other than getting paid
09:38 <krm26> time to go outside and start working on the victory garden
09:41 <K2> yuppers
09:41 <K2> we're expanding our garden this year
09:44 <K2> dow jones is now down over 4.3%
09:44 <K2> s&p almost at 5%
09:44 <K2> hah
09:44 <K2> we have the worst president in hostory, ever - on multiple fronts
09:45 <K2> *history
09:46 <K2> i only have a lil bit invested in stocks, if it becomes worthless, not a huge loss. the mutual fund my late father left my daughter is taking a beating though
09:51 <krm26> i think ive lost 7 digits now :-)
09:51 <krm26> everyone needs to run out and buy new iphones to help me out
09:53 <K2> 7?
09:54 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had Sting bestowed upon him by Huan Ti, on T:613 (0:02:14)
09:55 <K2> i just backported the worn armor fix plus a few other fixes to 0.9.0
09:55 <K2> will update servers very soon
09:56 <K2> !who
09:56 <Hecubus> K2: [hdf-eu] No current players :: [hdf-us] dbanethacker [evil] DragonSidedD [evil] krm26 [evil] :: [hdf-au] No current players
09:56 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed Gollum, on T:866 (0:04:09)
09:59 <K2> Evilhack has been updated. if you're playing, best to save/reload (but not necessary/critical)
09:59 <krm26> it all looks so fresh and new! thx!
09:59 <K2> lol
09:59 <krm26> it is such a pain keeping unbardable pets alive
10:00 <krm26> third time ive had to resurrect my purple worm
10:00 <K2> https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commits/0.9.0/ <--- latest 7 commits are what I just patched 0.9.0 with
10:01 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:2387 (0:08:37)
10:01 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (genetic engineers), on T:2440 (0:09:26)
10:03 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had a pair of gauntlets of protection entrusted to him by Huan Ti, on T:2524 (0:10:49)
10:07 <krm26> i think i like feeding wraiths to engulfing pets more than any other single game behavior
10:07 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had a pair of wooden gauntlets entrusted to him by Huan Ti, on T:3246 (0:14:49)
10:07 <K2> eat the meat, cow!
10:08 <krm26> purple worm from 28 -> 43 after entering gehennom
10:09 <K2> wooo
10:10 <krm26> and yet it will die to a silly little zombie eventually
10:13 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 4007 points, T:4003, killed by a gnome lord, while praying
10:22 -!- krm26 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
11:07 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Con Dwa Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:2455 (0:14:46)
11:09 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Con Dwa Mal Cha), 1561 points, T:2632, killed by a large spider
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11:21 <dingotron> @K2 are these armor bugs you can backport to 0.9 and existing games will get fixed? Or should I just re-roll my character once it's patched? (my current game is not that far along so nbd)
11:21 <dingotron> I wonder if phantom invisible armor can still be left behind in a bones pile ;)
11:57 <K2> unclear
11:58 <K2> if the bug is already expressed, prob would need to start a new game to clear it? or at least save/reload
12:11 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:1558 (0:10:54)
12:11 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) performed her first genocide (giant mimics), on T:1580 (0:11:22)
12:18 -!- krm26 has joined #evilhack
12:22 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3351 (0:21:33)
12:22 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 7778 points, T:3355, killed by a cave spider
12:25 <krm26> well that is how long it takes me to find my gear to repair a cut internet drop
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12:31 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 590 points, T:1970, killed by an orc zombie, while reading a book
12:43 <dingotron> @k2 thx
12:55 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatelo (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed the Oracle, on T:23775 (5:45:59)
12:56 <rebatelo> let the record show that was Larry the Balrog, not me 
13:46 <K2> heh
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14:45 <Arch> K2 so when the games crashes to the main menu, does it give you a report on your end like other bugs?
14:45 <K2> sometimes
14:45 <Arch> was my crash related to the disappearing wearable armor bug?
14:46 <K2> i saw your crash from earlier
14:46 <K2> yes
14:46 <K2> fix is in
14:46 <Arch> yeah I saw, 'tis good
14:46 <Arch> but not sure how good yet.
14:46 <K2> new game will be fine. existing game where the bug already occurred, unknown
14:47 <Arch> game I was playing was rather crazy and looking to be a wonderful build
14:47 <K2> well keep playing, see how it goes
14:48 <Arch> when I load up the game, is what I can do at the [r]ecover, [d]estroy screen the same what you can do on your end?
14:48 <Arch> it was not that long ago when I put on and had the bracers destroyed, unfortunately.
14:48 <K2> recover it
14:48 <Arch> meant to take them off, did not even want them on.
14:50 <Arch> OK.
14:50 <Arch> wow. restored right where I was .
14:50 <Arch> usually takes me a ways back
14:51 <Arch> kick is not the extra attack affected, correct?
14:51 <K2> correct
14:51 <K2> try putting on a shield or bracers again
14:51 <K2> and then removing
14:51 <K2> just see if it behaves normally now
14:52 <K2> fyi i gotta go in... 8 min
14:52 <Arch> happen to have an extra pair in my bag....
14:52 <Arch> !!!
14:52 <Arch> "You are now wearing a pair of dark elven bracers."
14:52 <Arch> yay?
14:52 <Arch> extra attack back?
14:52 <Arch> wheeeeewwww?
14:52 <K2> go see
14:53 <Arch> so, what is with the game saying I was wearing a boulder?  They are not even a a wearable!  :)
14:53 <Arch> (I want to wear a boulder!)
14:53 <K2> i dont honestly
14:53 <K2> *dont know
14:54 <K2> was it quivered? are you a giant?
14:54 <Arch> all the question marks above were just me still being ~cautiously~ optimistic.
14:54 <Arch> I was able to put on the bracers.
14:55 <K2> that's good
14:55 <K2> can you remove them and put them back on? that all checks out?
14:55 <Arch> yes, took them off
14:55 <K2> k
14:55 <K2> so far looking good then
14:55 <K2> true test will be if they break while being worn
14:56 <Arch> trying to avoid being engulfed by earth elementals
14:56 <Arch> sloooow air elementals!
14:57 <Arch> second attack has still yet to engage.
14:57 <Arch> so not sure about that yet.
14:57 <Arch> yep
14:57 <Arch> there it is!
14:57 <K2> \o/
14:57 <K2> ok i gotta go. back later
14:58 <Arch> OK, well, ----- and official  'yay!'
14:59 <Arch> dingotron fix works for current games!
15:07 -!- Arch has quit [Quit: Client closed]
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15:16 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Monk (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 74356 points, T:34180, poisoned by a locust, while frozen by a monster's gaze
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15:55 <tinklebear> YASI: while asleep, rate of Pw regeneration increases significantly
15:56 <tinklebear> perhaps HP as well
15:56 <tinklebear> (possibly not-such-a-silly-idea)
16:00 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Yeshua (Arc Hum Mal Law), 537 points, T:823, killed by a bugbear
16:08 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Yeshua (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 328 points, T:1392, killed by a hobbit
16:12 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Hum Fem Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:81759 (20:16:19)
16:12 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Hum Fem Law) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:81760 (20:16:24)
16:21 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Yeshua (Mon Hum Fem Cha) destroyed coplate's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:777 (0:10:01)
16:49 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Yeshua (Mon Hum Fem Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:3668 (0:37:52)
16:56 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:1201 (0:05:57)
16:57 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Hum Fem Law) genocided green slimes, on T:82724 (21:01:45)
16:58 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Hum Fem Law) genocided vampire mages, on T:82726 (21:02:22)
16:58 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Dro Mal Cha) killed Cerberus, on T:48984 (2 days, 3:13:26)
17:01 <tinklebear> pet bat won't eat Cerberus
17:01 <tinklebear> does it know something I don't?
17:01 <tinklebear> maybe it's just satiated on tripe
17:02 <bouquet> I bet its full. 
17:03 <bouquet> it'd be cool if #chatting to your pet could elicit different responses depending on how they feel.
17:03 <tinklebear> "Is male, huge, ungenocideable, poisonous, strong, accurate, infravisible, carnivorous, vulnerable to cold."
17:03 <tinklebear> I missed the "poisonous" part
17:05 <tinklebear> I started a gnollhack game the other day, and if you #chat to your pet, there's like this W-2 form to fill out
17:05 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Monk (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed the invisible Gollum, on T:1914 (1:17:16)
17:05 <tinklebear> a whole list of ways to interact with your pet, that I guess all count as "chatting"
17:06 <tinklebear> one of the choices is to pet them, which is cool
17:06 <Arch> "You see invisible Karnov's ghost."
17:06 <Arch> in Gollum's cave?!?!
17:06 <Arch> huh?
17:06 <tinklebear> I don't know, Arch. That doesn't seem to unusual to me
17:07 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Val Dwa Fem Law), 728 points, T:2961, killed by a piranha
17:07 <Arch> how so/why not?
17:07 <tinklebear> rando ghosts show up
17:07 <Arch> thought the only thing that generated there were orcs, kobolds and rats.
17:07 <tinklebear> I don't want to spoil the magic though
17:07 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] diagonalo (Val Hum Fem Law), 695 points, T:1256, zombified by a dwarf zombie, while praying
17:07 <Arch> never seen a ghost in there ever.
17:08 <tinklebear> well, cool
17:08 <tinklebear> piranhas and bats tend to show up there too. too obvious to list, I guess
17:09 <tinklebear> I can't say I've seen a ghost in there myself.
17:09 <Arch> well, once they are gone, they are gone, no more generate (was my point)
17:09 <tinklebear> oh, really? I did not know that
17:09 <Arch> (pirhanas and bats)
17:10 <tinklebear> yeah, i see
17:10 <Arch> and jellyfish
17:10 <tinklebear> so once you've fished them all, you've got to restock it yourself?
17:10 <tinklebear> no wonder gollum's cranky
17:11 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4041 (0:20:43)
17:11 <tinklebear> I knew the goblin king level has restricted monster generation, but I did not know gollum's cave did too
17:11 <Arch> I mean, for flavor, it could be fun to have a generated bones pile and ghost.
17:11 <tinklebear> if true, that's pretty interesting
17:11 <Arch> someone fell down there and died.
17:11 <tinklebear> sure
17:12 <tinklebear> I wonder if it's bones eligible
17:12 <tinklebear> could be
17:12 <tinklebear> but i've never seen any
17:12 <tinklebear> actually, it's usually too shallow, I think
17:12 <tinklebear> for bones, I mean
17:12 <Arch> well, Karnov is one of the pre-gen named ghost that can occur, like in a temple or in VotD
17:13 <Arch> Kenny, Maud
17:13 <tinklebear> yeah. I doubt an actual player karnov is involved here
17:13 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Hum Fem Law) killed Orcus, on T:83525 (21:17:25)
17:13 <tinklebear> poor kenny
17:13 <tinklebear> woooo. wooooOOOOO
17:14 <Arch> but, I've not come across any temple (far too early any way) so no way I lured in a ghost
17:14 <tinklebear> but just regular monster gen seems to generate a ghost once in a while
17:14 <tinklebear> doesn't it?
17:15 <tinklebear> do you have a goblin king map where the trapdoor is near the portal?
17:15 <Arch> no, it the map with Goblin King on far right and the trap door is next to there.
17:16 <Arch> ^it is
17:16 <tinklebear> btw: the "orcs, goblins, and rats" thing. THAT's the goblin king level list
17:16 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 6250 points, T:4722, quit
17:16 <tinklebear> could be, as you say, that it's also the gollum level list
17:16 <Arch> I've never encountered other monsters in Gollum's cave.
17:16 <tinklebear> ...but TO ME, they look suspiciously similar
17:16 <Arch> I train pets there a lot.
17:16 <Arch> In hopes of narding of saddles, too.
17:17 <Arch> barding as well.
17:17 <tinklebear> ah, well then you are the authority
17:17 <Arch> not necessarily
17:17 <tinklebear> I never spend more time down there than absolutely necessary
17:17 <tinklebear> more so than I am, you are
17:17 <tinklebear> I don't like piranhas
17:17 <Arch> It is a great pet training ground.
17:17 <tinklebear> too bitey
17:17 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed Gollum, on T:1194 (0:03:58)
17:18 <tinklebear> by the time I can handle the piranhas, I can train my horse anywhere I want
17:18 <Arch> me neither. nasty suckers (in the game that is)
17:18 <Arch> I was going to mention you and your horses.   :)
17:18 <tinklebear> hehe
17:19 <Arch> just not too high of a level monster gens there.
17:19 <tinklebear> yeah. I get you
17:19 <Arch> Even on early levels higher monster _can_ generate, and can kill a pet.
17:19 <tinklebear> true
17:19 <Arch> especially with no means to heal them.
17:19 <Arch> plus, you gotta deal with zombies.
17:19 <tinklebear> hobgoblins can get a good shot in
17:19 <Arch> oh yea
17:20 <Arch> and bugbears can hit pretty hard.
17:20 <tinklebear> definitely the bugbears
17:20 <Arch> that is where I step in and kill those to protect weaker pets.
17:21 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:1706 (0:07:03)
17:21 <tinklebear> yeah. you gotta get some training too, after all
17:21 <Arch> one of my early strategies for most characters is to let pets kill all 1/2/3 XP monsters as it levels them up more quickly.
17:22 <Arch> the higher/quicker they level up, the more they can protect me
17:23 <tinklebear> I think that's a good plan for sure
17:24 <tinklebear> if you go to the trouble of keeping a pet, very sensible
17:24 <tinklebear> to have them strong asap
17:24 <Arch> I'd like to try to play without pets, but it is hard for me.
17:24 <Arch> do not know why I like them soooo much,
17:25 <Arch> I've tried playing wizards without, absolutely swearing "I will not tame a purple worm, I will not tame a purple worm, I will not tame a purple worm..."
17:25 <Arch> First purple worm I see?
17:25 <tinklebear> heh
17:26 <Arch> I also really _like_ pacifist.
17:26 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:2971 (0:18:53)
17:26 <Arch> So.... yeah.
17:26 <tinklebear> interesting
17:26 <Arch> So many cannot do it because of the disdain for pet and their behavior.
17:27 <tinklebear> yeah. depending on the role, I either depend on a pet or kinda prefer not starting with one
17:27 <tinklebear> if you don't need one, then early on they can slow you down
17:27 <Arch> there are tricks to making them more bearable
17:28 <Arch> keeping a tripe ration or treat (carrot, apple) in open inventory will keep them close to you
17:28 <tinklebear> that's a good one
17:28 <tinklebear> it works
17:28 <Arch> a pea whistle signifies for them to come to you and stay next to you for the next 20 turns.
17:28 <tinklebear> that one is true but not super useful
17:29 <Arch> until you get a magic whistle, it is!
17:29 <tinklebear> yeah
17:29 <Arch> so many times it has saved a pet from a zombie,
17:29 <tinklebear> heh
17:29 <tinklebear> knowing to keep cursed stuff out of their way... etc
17:29 <tinklebear> (if you want them to follow you down the hall, or whatever)
17:30 <Arch> another good one is keeping them in your line of site, so they they follow you.  All you have to do is go around a corner and they start wandering around.  they try to get to you but do not know where you are.
17:30 <Arch> so many people I see struggle because they are moving too far ahead.
17:31 <tinklebear> true
17:31 <Arch> and cursed stuff can also help!
17:31 <tinklebear> also true. I keep at least one cursed thing around for that reason
17:31 <Arch> put it on top of a stack of sold items in a shop so they are picking up all those useless rocks and junk armor
17:31 <Arch> ^so they are NOT
17:31 <tinklebear> but all these tricks, they take up time and attention. some roles/styles simply don't need an early pet
17:32 <Arch> who doesn't need early BUC testing?
17:32 <tinklebear> I don't often need that
17:32 <tinklebear> not that I'm against it, if I have a pet
17:32 <Arch> I love finding early lighter statues for keeping pets of piles and moveable containers.
17:33 <tinklebear> as rogue I often don't do a lot of BUC testing at first
17:33 <tinklebear> yep. I do the statue thing too
17:33 <Arch> I try that and it usually ROYALLY screws me
17:33 <tinklebear> yeah, sometimes you get greedy
17:33 <Arch> ends up being terrible armor or amulet, ring or whatever
17:33 <tinklebear> you/I
17:34 <tinklebear> long swords... they tempt me as a rogue
17:34 <Arch> interesting
17:34 <Arch> I tend to stay away from them with rogues
17:34 <Arch> for dagger/broadsword/short sword
17:34 <tinklebear> cool
17:35 <Arch> Shadowblade/Stormbringer/the Brands.
17:35 <tinklebear> I like a long sword until I can make a crysknife
17:35 <tinklebear> I don't usually luck into artifacts
17:35 <Arch> I always want to play around with crysknives, save ALL the teeth, then do nothing with them.
17:35 <tinklebear> hehe
17:36 <Arch> I remember in the wee days of NetHack when crysknives were KING.
17:36 <Arch> superslayers
17:36 <tinklebear> they're still pretty sweet, dual wielded expert cryknives rock
17:36 <Arch> Used to even do stacks of them, then just re-enchant them when they revert
17:36 <tinklebear> oh wow. that's pretty hard core
17:37 <Arch> even nicer now that knive/dagger skill lwas merged!
17:37 <tinklebear> I can see that
17:37 <Arch> do they still revert when they hit the ground or does fixing prevent it?
17:38 <tinklebear> fixing makes reversion less likely
17:38 <tinklebear> as in, not a foregone conclusion
17:38 <Arch> so, why the long sword with a rogue? (if you wish not to divulge secrets, that is fine)
17:38 <tinklebear> it's d12 damage vs large, correct?
17:39 <tinklebear> that's pretty nice
17:39 <Arch> yeah, in vanilla I always loved long sword
17:39 <tinklebear> you can train it to skilled
17:39 <Arch> get a silver long sword of ---foo---- and it could be as good as an artifiact!
17:39 <tinklebear> and you might get a decent one from an Aleax
17:40 <Arch> yeah, and always at least rustproof.
17:40 <Arch> and a lot of the times nicely enchanted.
17:40 <tinklebear> yeah, I was thinking in vanilla terms there for a minute
17:40 <tinklebear> in evil you can find all kinds of nice ones, like you say
17:41 <Arch> a shocking one woujld be great.
17:41 <Arch> not much resists shock.
17:41 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:5214 (0:33:59)
17:41 <tinklebear> people love that
17:41 <Arch> me too.
17:41 <tinklebear> I kind of prefer the cold/fire ones over shock, because there aren't too many monsters specifically *vulnerable* to shock
17:42 <Arch> I find a gnome with a stack of daggers of lightning and I know I ca ntake that character pretty far.  I even lug the heavy iron ones around.
17:42 <tinklebear> cool
17:43 <tinklebear> but yeah, I'm not sure if there's any real sciency reason for a rogue to value long swords..
17:43 <tinklebear> ...over like broadswords
17:44 <tinklebear> oh, here's one: how many artifact broadswords are there?
17:44 <tinklebear> if I DO happen to stumble on an artifact sword, it'll probably be a long sword
17:44 <Arch> Strombringer.
17:44 <tinklebear> (again, I'm kind of thinking in vanilla terms here)
17:44 <Arch> Brands are no longer long swords.
17:44 <Arch> ah... yes.
17:44 <tinklebear> yep
17:44 <Arch> vanilla.
17:45 <tinklebear> pretty sure I have never encountered stormbringer on the floor
17:45 <tinklebear> I suppose it'll happen one day
17:45 <Arch> I like vanilla. You can make alll sorts of sundaes out of it.
17:45 <Arch> chocolate and peanuts.
17:45 <Arch> banana split
17:45 <tinklebear> but yeah, in evil, the long sword preference isn't quite as rational
17:45 <Arch> peanut butter
17:45 <Arch> blueberries
17:45 <tinklebear> hehe
17:46 <Arch> witrh flavored ice cream your sundae options are limited.
17:46 <Arch> I found Stormbringer in the Orc Town shop with rogue recently!
17:46 <tinklebear> nice
17:46 <tinklebear> :D
17:47 <Arch> Then was gifted Werebane shortly thereafter.
17:47 <tinklebear> and then what happened?
17:47 <Arch> acutally.... I am shy to admit....
17:47 <Arch> the character is still alve.
17:47 <Arch> parked.
17:47 <tinklebear> haha
17:48 <tinklebear> lol
17:48 <tinklebear> that happens to me sometimes
17:48 <tinklebear> heh
17:48 <tinklebear> "phew, this is too good to be true. better park this and play some dnethack or something"
17:49 <Arch> there is a lot going on in the later game. I tend to get all . . . verklempt.
17:49 <tinklebear> yeah!
17:49 <Arch> too amny hoops tp jump thorugh
17:49 <Arch> ^through
17:50 <tinklebear> it can feel that way
17:50 <Arch> and, exactly, I feel too powerful and get killed by something stupid.  (too good to be true)
17:50 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) had a small shield entrusted to him by Anhur, on T:6097 (0:43:10)
17:50 <Arch> my recent rogue was a dream build.  nearly everything was killed in just a few rounds.
17:51 <tinklebear> yeah, I find remarkable, the ratio of deaths by truly deadly things versus deaths due to ... tripping over my own feet
17:51 <Arch> had a fully levelled elder mintoaur, barded shadow dragon, drow cleric and my trusty starting spider.
17:52 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping 12 darts on an altar, on T:4581 (0:38:14)
17:52 <tinklebear> starting spider :D
17:52 <Arch> was walking through the Fort Ludios _quickly_ and ran into a gelatinous cube.
17:52 <tinklebear> oh
17:52 <Arch> just got off my shadow dragon to protect it from locusts.
17:53 <Arch> so weird you are stuck and cannot give a steed a eucalyptus leaf!
17:53 <tinklebear> you SHOULD be able to
17:53 <tinklebear> and K2 claims you can
17:53 <Arch> throw it downward, it does nothing
17:53 <tinklebear> I KNOW
17:53 <Arch> cannot loot.
17:54 <tinklebear> should be able to simply drop it
17:54 <Arch> point is, if I had not gotten of my shadow dragon, I'd not have dies to that gel cube!
17:54 <tinklebear> like an apple for a horse
17:54 <tinklebear> oh, so the gelatinous b smurfed you?
17:54 <Arch> probably would have killed it before I had a chance to attack it
17:54 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:6896 (0:47:33)
17:54 <tinklebear> and just like that. that's how it always goes
17:55 <Arch> I had 5 magic lamps
17:55 <Arch> only used 1.
17:55 <Arch> was saving my wishes to figure out the altar artifact thing
17:56 <Arch> got sickness resistqance from crowning (whic his awesome!)
17:56 <Arch> ^which
17:56 <tinklebear> cool. what role?
17:57 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:5241 (0:43:17)
17:58 <Arch> oh, I was not boring you just idle conversation.
17:58 <Arch> we were talking about rogues.
17:58 <Arch> it was a rogue. :)
17:58 <tinklebear> cool
17:58 <Arch> drow rogue are uber fun!
17:58 <tinklebear> you start with a spider?
17:58 <Arch> yeah
17:59 <tinklebear> I play drow rogue a lot, but I guess I have petless set in config and never thought about it
17:59 <tinklebear> neat
17:59 <Arch> can saddle and bard them, too
17:59 <tinklebear> after they grow up a little, yeah
18:00 <Arch> giant spider.
18:00 <Arch> their web spinning make for a fun time
18:00 <Arch> good way to protect early containers
18:00 <Arch> rob shops
18:00 <tinklebear> hah, really?
18:01 <Arch> the only thing (and I find it really odd) --- you cannot displace a pet spider into a web.
18:01 <Arch> Ummm, like they traverse webs regularly?
18:01 <tinklebear> yeah, that seems wrong to me too
18:02 <Arch> yeah, shopekeepers either gets surrounded by webs or trapped in them and you can just walk out.
18:02 <tinklebear> heh. "Arch, please don't leave without paying"
18:02 <Arch> shjopekeeper zaps his useless sleep wand against my DROW and then puts himself to sleep.
18:02 <tinklebear> :D
18:06 <Arch> cannot joust with a rogue/spider, though....  :)
18:06 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:1137 (0:06:01)
18:06 <tinklebear> wait, what?
18:06 <tinklebear> oh, right. rogue
18:06 <tinklebear> knight can
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18:07 <tinklebear> actually, I think you *can* joust unskilled, it's just not worth it 
18:07 <Arch> can do pole arms to basic, though
18:07 <Arch> well, yeah, what I meant.
18:07 <Arch> I know you love your horses/knights
18:07 <tinklebear> and yeah... basic polearm's pretty pointless
18:07 <Arch> you beat EvilHack naked, right?
18:07 <tinklebear> I believe so
18:08 <tinklebear> heh, yeah, I do like knight
18:08 <Arch> or was it no magic resistance and reflectionless?
18:08 <tinklebear> may have been?
18:08 <Arch> There was one I watching you do.
18:09 * tinklebear looked it up
18:10 <tinklebear> looks like the nude one was both mrless and reflectless, yeah
18:11 <tinklebear> my first one was neither reflectless nor nude
18:12 <Arch> was just impressed at the skillful, careful play.
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18:12 <tinklebear> I like it when I'm compelled to take care
18:13 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Wiz Gno Fem Cha) killed Medusa, on T:62134 (11:04:53)
18:13 <tinklebear> there are so many little things you can do, to pare down your risk
18:13 <tinklebear> things to pay attention to
18:14 <qt> https://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy241/celebritybug/Hip-Hop%20Stars/drake-take-care-album-cover.jpg
18:15 <tinklebear> hey, don't dox me bro
18:16 <tinklebear> like, how many times have you died to a death ray, as opposed to, like forgetting to tie your shoes?
18:16 <tinklebear> (tying shoes/put on gloves, same difference)
18:17 <tinklebear> it's the gloves and the c corpse, every time
18:17 <Arch> that is one thing I refuse to die to any more
18:17 <tinklebear> which one?
18:17 <Arch> (happened so amny other times before)
18:17 <tinklebear> the gloveless c corpse, right?
18:17 <Arch> yeah
18:18 <Arch> always check for gloves as soon as I SEE a trice and now basilisk
18:18 <tinklebear> sure. or you know, just don't touch them!
18:18 <Arch> I do not even know.... can you touch a basilisk w/o gloves?
18:18 <tinklebear> don't even go near them
18:18 <tinklebear> pretty sure that's a stoning
18:18 <Arch> theya are pretty heavy, so I usually do not go around trying to pick them up
18:19 <tinklebear> yeah
18:19 <Arch> I ALWAYS pick up my trice corpses!
18:19 <tinklebear> but moving over them blind, bad idea
18:19 <tinklebear> do you now?
18:19 <Arch> put them in a bag right away.
18:19 <tinklebear> I can see the logic there
18:19 <Arch> leaving one around allows for all the glove wearing monsters with whack you or your pets.
18:19 <tinklebear> it does indeed
18:20 <tinklebear> I once stole a wielded one... without gloves
18:20 <Arch> with the Thievery skill?
18:20 <tinklebear> as succubus
18:20 <Arch> ah.
18:21 <Arch> I always check for gloves and lizard corpse when I see a 'c', religiously.
18:21 <Arch> still have the occasional blind, no gloves thing, though
18:21 <Arch> (happned no to recently)
18:22 <Arch> ^not to
18:22 <tinklebear> :(
18:22 <Arch> damn.  I can type, I swear!
18:22 <Arch> and spell.
18:22 <Arch> ^too
18:22 <Arch> (haha)
18:23 <Arch> there sem to be a lot more glove wearing monsters in Evil, so trice corpses seem even more dangerous.
18:23 <Arch> Other than NOT insta-stoning you
18:23 <Arch> does vanilla still have insta-stoning?
18:26 <tinklebear> if you get whacked? I don't know
18:28 <tinklebear> https://nethackscoreboard.org/deathreasons/A/Arch.evil.html
18:28 <tinklebear> no petrifications, no death rays
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18:30 <tinklebear> I'm increasingly struck by how rarely I turn out to need things that people like to insist are good practice
18:30 <tinklebear> lizard corpses, for example
18:30 <tinklebear> I know I've needed them before
18:30 <tinklebear> more than once
18:30 <tinklebear> but... it is really really rare
18:31 <tinklebear> probably more rare than eating a death wand in the face, which is itself really really rare
18:31 <Arch> I play as more than 'Arch'.
18:31 <tinklebear> heh, of course. makes sense
18:33 <Arch> I like lizard corpses for the hissing on the moon phase where it used to be deadly.
18:33 <Arch> still protects from that stoning (if in open inventory)
18:33 <tinklebear> true. and if you frequently need to be adjacent to c, then that makes a lot of sense
18:33 <tinklebear> but if you do not need to be adjacent, then...
18:33 <Arch> although, recently learned it is only 1/10 of the time!
18:34 <Arch> had to eat a bit of it while fighting it.
18:34 <tinklebear> it's enough to make hanging around bad idea
18:34 <tinklebear> for sure
18:34 <Arch> good thing Evil did not carry over cockatrice nests from Slash'EM, eh?
18:34 <tinklebear> they're in vanilla
18:35 <tinklebear> so I'm pretty sure evil has them
18:35 <tinklebear> they're rare
18:35 <Arch> although, once prepared, they were quite awesome!  lotsa loot!
18:35 <tinklebear> I don't remember that part
18:35 <tinklebear> in the statues or something?
18:35 <Arch> in Slash'EM the room could have...
18:35 <Arch> ...yeah.
18:35 <Arch> exacly
18:35 <tinklebear> hm okay
18:36 <Arch> in vanilla they are part of the new themed room thing, right?
18:36 <tinklebear> I don't know
18:36 <Arch> they were not there pre-3.6.x?
18:37 <tinklebear> I do not recall seeing any pre-3.6, no
18:37 <Arch> also Slash'EM was kind of vicious, there could be pits in the cockatrice nests, so you had to be careful.
18:37 <Arch> that create pool spell.   daaaammmmnnn.....
18:38 <tinklebear> I haven't played much slashem. but yolo-reading create pool scroll was a bummer the first couple times
18:39 <tinklebear> (probably was not in slashem, but in some other variant)
18:39 <Arch> yeah... create pool is a monster spell.
18:39 <tinklebear> oh
18:39 <Arch> creates a pool under you
18:40 <tinklebear> not nice
18:40 <Arch> and, yeah, well.... no math needed.
18:40 <Arch> I know some variants have scroll of flood.
18:40 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Wiz Gno Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fixed magic marker", on T:63217 (11:32:22)
18:40 <Arch> dNetHack and Un?
18:41 <tinklebear> I seem to think not in dnh, but could've been I guess
18:41 <Arch> had a tame The Watcher in my Sokoban castle as a wizard... THAT was fun!
18:41 <tinklebear> what is that?
18:41 <tinklebear> and what is a sokoban castle?
18:41 <Arch> not actually....
18:42 <Arch> as a wizard I like to use it as a stash
18:42 <Arch> especially after EotA
18:42 <tinklebear> oh, I see. *your* castle. got it
18:42 <Arch> just feels like home for a wizard.
18:42 <tinklebear> sure. makes sense
18:42 <Arch> read scroll of flood and gave The Watcher a home.
18:43 <tinklebear> oh, like in LOTR. i see
18:43 <Arch> The Watcher is in the Mines of Moria.
18:43 <Arch> UnNetHack, is it?>
18:44 * tinklebear goes to check unnethack dumplogs
18:44 <Arch> buyt now that there are the magic chests, the whole Soko/home thing is kind of  moot.
18:45 <tinklebear> yeah?
18:45 <Arch> In Evil, I mean.
18:45 <tinklebear> sort of prefab stash locations, yeah
18:46 <tinklebear> I like deciding where to stash things
18:46 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Wiz Gno Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fixed magic marker", on T:63372 (11:37:58)
18:46 <tinklebear> but magic chest functionality is also nice
18:46 <tinklebear> different game, new things to think about instead
18:47 <Arch> indeed.
18:47 <tinklebear> in dnethack you can move them around, but they lock down once you unlock them
18:47 <Arch> The Stash, without the magic chest, was almos like its own mini-game.
18:48 <tinklebear> yeah, true!
18:48 <Arch> Keeping stash points/chest at the stairs.
18:48 <Arch> moving loads to and fro, a lil at a time.
18:48 <tinklebear> I've got a whole protocol for picking which square
18:50 <Arch> and now monsters raiding containers and monsters with keys, and giants add new wrinkles.
18:50 <tinklebear> true
18:50 <Arch> used to just engrave Elbereth to protect chests
18:50 <tinklebear> boulders increase in utility
18:50 <Arch> now, you I do not even USE the 'E' word!
18:50 <tinklebear> heh
18:51 <Arch> amazing how Evil stopped that behavior
18:51 <tinklebear> which? the E word?
18:51 <Arch> with boulder, then you come across a Giant Captain.... hah.
18:51 <tinklebear> yeah, giants will be giants
18:51 <tinklebear> that's why you don't lock the doors
18:52 <tinklebear> (unless you have wizard lock or something)
18:52 <Arch> when I first started playing Evil it was a mad dash to find Elbereth... paying up The Oracle... read fortune cookies... hah
18:52 <Arch> now it is like, whatever.... even with my  pacifist attempts.
18:52 <tinklebear> I see
18:52 <Arch> that is intersting to not LOCK the doors, then they do not destroy them
18:52 <tinklebear> heh, yeah
18:53 <Arch> I used to engrave Elbereth religiously just for the widsom training
18:53 <tinklebear> and if you furthermore leave the doors *open* then nearly nothing can destroy them
18:53 <Arch> gets your wisdom up FAST!
18:53 <Arch> as long as you capitalize 'E'.
18:54 <tinklebear> oh
18:54 <tinklebear> just normal, type-naming for independent reasons seems to exercise it sufficiently for my purposes
18:54 <Arch> yeah, that does too
18:55 <tinklebear> but I hardly ever play wizard, and only occasionally play priest
18:55 <Arch> I think wisdom has the most ways to abuse and exercise it!
18:55 <tinklebear> heh. I wish hallucination didn't abuse it, but it's kind of funny that it does
18:57 <Arch> interesting... and you've been doing the hallucination conduct.
18:57 <Arch> not sure of the name
18:58 <Arch> a lot of people consider pacifist to be the hardest.  not sure why.
18:58 <tinklebear> I *think*, at least in evil, that permahallucination doesn't abuse wisdom anymore
18:58 <Arch> I find perm-hallucination and Zen are by FAR the hardest.
18:58 <tinklebear> hm. zen is really hard for me
18:59 <tinklebear> and I've never made a serious attempt at pacifist, but I'm pretty sure I'd find it very difficult
18:59 <Arch> still trying the perm-hallucination or you taking a break?
19:00 <Arch> it seems impossible in Evil.  monsters are WAY too high of a level
19:00 <tinklebear> when I play rogue or samurai, I usually do the hallu thing
19:00 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Wiz Gno Fem Cha) had Secespita bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:63662 (11:52:31)
19:00 <Arch> (pacifism was the impossibility in Evil)
19:00 <tinklebear> think so?
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19:02 <Arch95> I have pacifist characters that are poised to ascend, both locally and on servers.
19:02 <tinklebear> oh wow
19:02 <Arch95> One is in the end game.
19:02 <Arch95> I've acsended Slash'EM as a pacifist,
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19:03 <tinklebear> that's pretty wild
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19:03 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Wiz Gno Fem Cha) used a forge to create The Staff of the Archmagi, on T:63911 (11:55:37)
19:03 <Arch42> I had a pacifist in Evil get to Gehennom
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19:04 <tinklebear> nice
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19:05 -!- Arch has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:05 <Arch13> hate it when my internet stops working.
19:05 <Arch13> it'll just keep disconnecting and reconnecting like this over and over and over.
19:06 <tinklebear> the party with drow cleric/shadow dragon/original spider, is that a pacifist run?
19:06 <Arch13> pets will not touch demon bosses
19:06 <Arch13> Will not touch Vecna
19:06 <Arch13> I think that is where that character died
19:06 <tinklebear> hah, I take a pass on Vecna every time
19:06 <Arch13> Vecna blasted me with the draining.
19:07 <Arch13> wanted L's and alhoon gone
19:07 <Arch13> purple worms can do a good job at them.... but it can get hairy.
19:07 <tinklebear> I see
19:08 <Arch13> even with conflict I could not get any pets to hit the higher-level monsters/bosses enough to kill them
19:08 <tinklebear> pretty sure I've had pet dragons take out rodney a few times
19:08 <Arch13> now Lucifer is, what, level 100?!
19:08 <tinklebear> but he's engulfable, and I guess some demon bosses are not
19:08 <Arch13> but Rodney is lower-levelled oddly.
19:09 <Arch13> like 30's, I think?
19:09 <tinklebear> yeah
19:09 <tinklebear> starts at 30, and then increments AIUI
19:09 <Arch13> It is my favorite way to dispose of Rodney as a pacifist.
19:10 <tinklebear> so yeah, what would you do about say Tiamat?
19:10 <Arch13> exactly.
19:10 <Arch13> scares the HELL out of me
19:11 <Arch13> you need to be SEEN for conflict to work
19:11 <tinklebear> hm
19:11 <Arch13> boulder forts were nerfed
19:11 <Arch13> seems impossible
19:11 <Arch13> a nut I cannot crack
19:11 <tinklebear> well, you can hope you don't get Tiamat
19:12 <tinklebear> who else isn't engulfable?
19:12 <Arch13> sure, vampire mages and elder minotaur, but they have their weaknesses.
19:12 <tinklebear> is lucifer?
19:12 <Arch13> Even Archons are not that great in Evil.
19:12 <tinklebear> @e?lucifer
19:12 <Hecubus> Lucifer (&) | Lvl: 110 | Diff: 66 | Spd: 15 | Res: fire shock poison drain | Confer: nothing | MR: 99 | Gen: unique | AC: -1 | Atk: 4d6 weapon physical, 4d6 claw wither, 8d8 cast fire, 4d6 cast clerical | Align: -128 | flies, seeinvis, poisonous, nopoly, stalker, covetous, silverhate, infravis, demon
19:12 <tinklebear> don't see size info
19:13 <Arch13> should be a link to the wiki page! :)
19:13 <tinklebear> nah
19:13 <Arch13> Huge.
19:13 <tinklebear> so, not engulfable?
19:13 <Arch13> but I had a level 49 purple worm with ALL its resistance that would not engulf stuff.  it was odd.
19:14 <tinklebear> was it canceled?
19:14 <Arch13> I as dancing around with conflict
19:14 <Arch13> no
19:14 <tinklebear> strange
19:15 <Arch13> so, anyways, yeah — ghosts in Gollum's Cave, eh?
19:15 <tinklebear> :d
19:15 <tinklebear> :D
19:15 <tinklebear> black dragons
19:16 <tinklebear> no good for tiamat
19:16 <tinklebear> and there's the reflection spell thing
19:16 <tinklebear> which really throws a wrench into things
19:16 <tinklebear> but maybe not something impossible to overcome
19:17 <Arch13> yeah,. the reflection spell often thwarts my efforts.
19:17 <tinklebear> pets with ranged attacks don't seem to care what level their target is
19:17 <Arch13> goota catch em just as it expires, before they re-cast it.
19:17 <Arch13> gotta
19:17 <tinklebear> yep
19:18 <tinklebear> or before they cast it
19:18 <tinklebear> don't they sometimes refresh it before it expires?
19:18 <tinklebear> I've never watched this closely
19:18 <Arch13> yeah, notice that -- all breath attacks, arrow, darts, whatever, they'll be throwing them at that level 32 elder minotaur....
19:19 <tinklebear> I think umber hulks are under-rated
19:19 <Arch13> under-rated as pet?
19:19 <tinklebear> yeah. though they're a little slow, and you need to keep an eye on them
19:20 <tinklebear> every bit counts, right? and who wouldn't like a confused enemy
19:20 <Arch13> I think they are not great as a pacifist pet.  destroys all of the hallways and rooms leaving you more exposed to possible attacks against you.
19:20 <tinklebear> this is true
19:20 <tinklebear> about the room structure, yeah
19:20 <Arch13> makes it so you have less of a chance to "funnel" things
19:20 <tinklebear> absolutely. it's an issue with them
19:20 <tinklebear> so maybe not worth the trouble
19:21 <Arch13> always go at things in a hallway, with a pacifist, if I can
19:21 <tinklebear> possibly in open plan gehennom, it's less a liability
19:21 <Arch13> also why I do not like them (like xorns): they go to a temple or shop and kill them.
19:21 <tinklebear> hehe
19:22 <tinklebear> oh, I read that wrong
19:22 <Arch13> shops can be invaluable for price ID.
19:22 <tinklebear> sure
19:22 <tinklebear> gotta keep your pets on a leash, citizen
19:22 <Arch13> you can only use 2 ..... ;)
19:23 <tinklebear> it would get too confusing!
19:23 <tinklebear> two really is enough
19:23 <tinklebear> also, you only have two wrists
19:23 <Arch13> once you get more powerful pets, yes, two is enough.
19:24 <tinklebear> two plus a mount?
19:24 <Arch13> need a lot utility pets at first, to take care of special situations
19:25 <Arch13> need pets to take on trices and other stoners.
19:25 <tinklebear> can't just avoid them, route around?
19:25 <Arch13> I like to have a pet that can take on the mighty blue jelly or spotted jelly
19:25 <Arch13> so so so many pets have dies to those throughout the years
19:25 <Arch13> dies
19:25 <Arch13> died
19:25 <tinklebear> ah, pets to kill things so your other pets won't die. got it
19:26 <tinklebear> and if you use conflict, the c are trouble
19:26 <Arch13> move, route around --- sure --- the best you can --- until you can get a yellow dragon or gargoyle.
19:26 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] rebatelo (Mon Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed greased +2 dragonbane", on T:29465 (6:32:09)
19:26 <Arch13> can be difficult to move around them at times.
19:27 <tinklebear> you get first move on lucifer, right?
19:28 <Arch13> and yeah, too many pets can be more detrimental than helpful at times!
19:28 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 335 points, T:1099, killed by the Goblin King
19:28 <tinklebear> oh yeah. distraction kills
19:28 <Arch13> yeah, needs to wake up?
19:28 <Arch13> you can move right next to him if you are quiet, I think?
19:28 <tinklebear> so paralysis, and black dragon squad
19:28 <tinklebear> could work in theory?
19:31 <tinklebear> but when you summon via cursed invis, do they bop around a while casting spells before they finally show up?
19:31 <tinklebear> (thinking of the other demon bosses)
19:32 <Arch13> yeah.
19:32 <Arch13> I always hear
19:32 <Arch13> "You hear someone casting a spell!"
19:32 <Arch13> and that is just Lucy.
19:32 <tinklebear> yeah
19:32 <Arch13> all/most? of the demon bosses had their levels buffed.
19:33 <Arch13> used to be around 30's
19:33 <tinklebear> ok
19:33 <Arch13> Demo is the highest in vanilla, but still manageable.
19:33 <Arch13> Demogorgon.
19:33 <Arch13> Sorry Demo.
19:33 <Arch13> ha
19:33 <tinklebear> :D
19:33 <Arch13> and that is not even addressing the BIGGEST elephant in the room:
19:33 <Arch13> z o m b i e s
19:34 <Arch13> so touch to get a paci even started!
19:34 <tinklebear> yeah. gonna prize that cure sickness spellbook
19:34 <Arch13> gnomish healers seem far less appealing.
19:34 <tinklebear> why?
19:35 * tinklebear never considered them appealing, in his ignorance
19:35 <Arch13> in vanilla I can get a gnomish healer to the protection racket nearly every time.
19:35 <tinklebear> sure
19:35 <tinklebear> makes sense
19:35 <Arch13> in Evil, Wizards seems far more doable.
19:35 <Arch13> Can even start with cure sickness.
19:36 <tinklebear> barding and grease
19:36 <Arch13> but have had numerous pacifist pets where I get them al levelled up and:  "Fluffy the purple worm looks ill."
19:36 <Arch13> Or a dragon before I can get barding on it.
19:36 <Arch13> succumbs
19:36 <tinklebear> probably can't bard the worms, I spose
19:36 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 24 points, T:54, killed by a jackal, while reading a book
19:37 <Arch13> and there time, even if I am not burdened, a pet will dies to sickness in one turn without being able get a chance to throw eucalyptus, cast a spell or anything.
19:37 <Arch13> I want to ride a worm!
19:37 <tinklebear> :D
19:38 <Arch13> and yeah, youi can only bard those that can be rode.
19:38 <tinklebear> sensible
19:38 <tinklebear> well, I have to say, it doesn't surprise me that I haven't tried pacifist
19:38 <Arch13> which is odd.
19:38 <Arch13> dogs of war were outfitted with armor.
19:38 <tinklebear> surely you can bard a warg?
19:38 <tinklebear> they can be saddled
19:38 <Arch13> only with an orc
19:38 <tinklebear> okay
19:39 <tinklebear> "one is in the end game"
19:40 <tinklebear> does that mean they have the amulet? or does it mean they're in the planes?
19:40 <Arch13> went to the vibrating square so that all monsters are generated at a lower level
19:40 <Arch13> lelvelled up, did quest
19:41 <Arch13> went back down to wear wizard is --- about to knowck on his door.
19:41 <Arch13> (he's been waiting foe me)
19:41 <tinklebear> I see
19:41 <Arch13> for
19:41 <Arch13> ^where wizard
19:41 <tinklebear> foreboding,tense situation!
19:41 <Arch13> wearing a wizard... what an odd image
19:42 <Arch13> symbiotes in NetHack!
19:42 <Arch13> You symbiotic wizard casts a spell!
19:42 <Arch13> Your
19:43 <tinklebear> professor monkey-for-a-head
19:43 <Arch13> and the only pets I have are an Archon and yellow dragon.
19:43 <tinklebear> monkey wizard-for-a-head
19:43 <Arch13> considering just geno'ing trices.
19:44 <Arch13> oh wait,,,, think I do still have a purple worm too.... been a while.
19:47 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:1657 (0:08:17)
19:48 -!- Arch13 has quit [Quit: Client closed]
19:48 -!- elron has quit [Quit: Client closed]
19:50 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Dro Mal Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:49069 (2 days, 3:50:08)
19:52 <K2> throw eucalyptus leaf at your pet if they are diseased
19:52 <K2> they'll see it as a treat
19:53 <tinklebear> we were discussing the case where you are mounted on the stricken pet
19:54 <tinklebear> a number of times, I have dropped eucalyptus on the floor, and the pet simply died instead of eating it
19:54 <NetSysFire> K2: i want to see you throw a leaf
19:54 <tinklebear> and, iirc, Arch mentioned a similar case
19:54 <NetSysFire> EPI: eucalyptus leaves have severely decreased throwing range
19:54 <K2> you fold it like a paper airplane
19:55 <tinklebear> although, actually, the particular case they were discussing was one where they themself died while doing the "dismount and throw" workaround
19:56 <tinklebear> like, it has happened frequently enough, that my mount won't eat eucalyptus off the ground, that now I usually dismount and throw
19:56 <tinklebear> if I don't have means to turn undead
19:57 <tinklebear> but it has been a while since I encountered that situation. maybe this has been fixed
19:57 -!- Arch has joined #evilhack
19:57 <tinklebear> in the meantime
19:58 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] rebatelo (Mon Hum Mal Neu) genocided gray dragons, on T:29855 (6:49:30)
19:59 <K2> could try #loot
19:59 <K2> give it to them that way
19:59 <tinklebear> you do that while mounted, and I'll be very surprised, K2
19:59 <Arch> and throwing a leaf downward '>' does not work.
19:59 <K2> hmm
19:59 <tinklebear> the complaint is not "throwing doesn't work"
19:59 <Arch> if you 'l'oot it says "There is nothing here to loot!" whilst riding
20:00 <tinklebear> the complaint is, "I'm mounted, so I DROP the leaf on the ground, but the pet won't eat it in time"
20:00 <tinklebear> "it dies instead"
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20:00 <Arch> the complaint is everything — dropping, throwing downward, looting.    :)
20:00 <tinklebear> so as a workaround, we dismount and throw, if we need to be sure
20:01 <tinklebear> ...but doing that seems like a workaround for something that is a bug
20:01 <tinklebear> and is not really ideal in a lot of situations
20:01 <Arch> and that in itself is a problem, because a pet can be infected and die all in one turn!
20:01 <Arch> (dismounting the pet)
20:01 <K2> The horse catches the eucalyptus leaf.  The horse eats an uncursed eucalyptus leaf (1 aum).  The horse is no longer ill.
20:02 <K2> ^ throw it at them
20:02 <Arch> while riding?
20:02 <K2> dismount if you have to
20:02 <K2> i havent checked mounted yet
20:03 <Arch> #loot would be awesome if you could do that! heck, it should like a pack mule.   keep inventory items.    X-P
20:03 <tinklebear> haha
20:03 <K2> yeah you cant throw things to your mount
20:03 <Arch> saddle bags
20:03 <Arch> separate item
20:03 <K2> that's vanilla behavior
20:03 <K2> which is fine
20:04 <tinklebear> dropping it on the ground should work
20:05 <Arch> yes, because dismounting really is a problem.  pets can die the turn they are infected. I have had it happen a few times.
20:05 <tinklebear> but does not seem to be reliable
20:05 <Arch> dropping or #loot.
20:06 <K2> dropping it doesnt work. the act of throwing food at a pet, pet will see it as a certain value depending on the type of food and/or their condition
20:06 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 10614 points, T:4284, killed by a soldier ant
20:06 <K2> e leaf when thrown at an ill pet, they see it as a treat (very high value)
20:06 <tinklebear> right. the question the player naturally asks is, why doesn't dropping work?
20:07 <K2> dont have a solid answer
20:08 -!- Arch67 has joined #evilhack
20:08 <K2> but
20:09 <K2> i think an allowance could be setup in the dogfood() function
20:09 <K2> sorry
20:09 <K2> dog_goal()
20:09 <K2> that function handles how a pet views food objs on the ground
20:09 <K2> or any obj really
20:10 <tinklebear> it's weird. I *seems* like my horse will eat apples I drop on the ground endlessly 
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20:10 <tinklebear> so why not a single leaf, to save its own life?
20:10 <tinklebear> I might be wrong about the "endlessly" part. I only have so many apples at a time
20:11 <Arch67> I hungry horse will eat when an item is dropped.
20:11 <Arch67> It does eventually stop.
20:11 <K2> i think it's because a horse already sees an apple as high value
20:11 <K2> i dunno for sure
20:11 <Arch67> They will always eat thrown treats (apples.carrots).
20:11 <K2> i would have to dig into the code
20:11 -!- Arch has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20:11 <K2> pet movement is a mess fyi
20:11 <tinklebear> Arch, horses that whicker will countinue to eat apples
20:12 <tinklebear> whickering *means* "not hungry"
20:12 <Arch67> odd, that is usually my means  to determine if a pet is hungry as well as whinny/whicker
20:13 <Arch67> I thought I remember it stopping eating if dropped.  Could be wrong
20:13 <tinklebear> I suspect I have seen this: mount becomes ill. drop eucalyptus leaf. mount does not eat it. dismount.
20:13 <tinklebear> and THEN mount eats it
20:13 <tinklebear> this is just a supicion. perhaps I am imagining the memory
20:14 <Arch67> You drop 12 uncursed apples (24 aum).
20:14 <Arch67> The saddled pony picks up an uncursed apple.
20:14 <Arch67> did not eat any.
20:14 <Arch67> just playtested
20:14 <tinklebear> you don't know its nutritional reserves
20:14 <tinklebear> my point is: mere hunger is not the threshold
20:15 <tinklebear> after a single apple, no horse is still hungry
20:15 <Arch67> sure I do. new game
20:15 <krm26> there should be a #feed command so you dont have to throw stuff and can conveniently feed when mounted
20:15 <tinklebear> so tell me, what are its nutritional reserves?
20:15 <Arch67> also, for non-horses: throw and orange/pear/banana at them.   they are not a treat and will eat them if hungry.  if it is not hungry, it will just miss...
20:16 <tinklebear> look: after a single apple, no horse is hungry. yet my cauchemar just ate four apples in succession.
20:16 <Arch67> don;t pets start with a set hunger level?
20:16 <tinklebear> yes they do
20:16 <Arch67> point is, they do not just eat them if dropped.
20:16 <Arch67> if not hungry, they do not just eat them.
20:17 <Arch67> even though they are a treat
20:17 <tinklebear> "hungry" is a technical term
20:17 <tinklebear> it means they have 500 turns to go until they are "starving", which is another technical term
20:18 <tinklebear> ...which in its turn means they have 250 turns to go until they die
20:18 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xialg (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 2817 points, T:3098, killed by a dwarf lady
20:18 <tinklebear> after a horse eats a SINGLE piece of food, it will no longer be "hungry", in that technical sense
20:18 <tinklebear> and yet, AND YET, my horse just ate four apples consecutively off the ground, while mounted
20:19 <tinklebear> and that is why I say, "hunger" is not the threshold that matters
20:19 <Arch67> because an apple only provide so much nutritional points.
20:19 <Arch67> a lichen, even more
20:19 <Arch67> a slime mold?  lots!
20:19 <tinklebear> yes, we are aware
20:20 <tinklebear> there may be a nutritional threshold. but HUNGER is not it
20:20 <Arch67> Obviously.
20:21 <Arch67> I always just thought there were different levels of "hungry"
20:21 <tinklebear> okay
20:22 <tinklebear> I mean, clearly there are
20:23 <Arch67> my only point was that it is not endlessly.
20:23 <Arch67> I am not arguing any other point.
20:23 <tinklebear> fair
20:23 <Arch67> heck, I'd maybe even go as far to say I am not arguing.  :)
20:23 <tinklebear> pertinent and fair point!
20:24 <Arch67> they do stop.  maybe an apple or carrot, because they ARE a treat is why they may eat more.
20:24 <tinklebear> but why not a single leaf to save their life?
20:25 <Arch67> whereas a dropped orange or banana is like, "dude! I do not want that!"
20:25 <Arch67> I know, right?
20:25 <Arch67> I still try even though I know damned well it does not work.  ha
20:25 <K2> in evilhack, if a pet is 'full' they wont eat food on the floor until they become not satiated. 800 nutrition
20:25 <tinklebear> like, in vanilla, for a long time in 3.6 (possibly still), if you rode a horse over a chameleon corpse while it was merely "hungry", it would EAT IT
20:25 <K2> having said that, they will eat 'treats' if thrown at them
20:26 <K2> regardless of satiation
20:26 <Arch67> whoa.
20:26 <Arch67> and do they polymorph in vanilla still?
20:26 <tinklebear> yes
20:26 <Arch67> damn.
20:26 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) polymorphed his first object, on T:6394 (1:26:56)
20:26 <tinklebear> (or maybe I have that a little wrong. perhaps it is only when "starving")
20:26 <K2> food time, bbl
20:26 <tinklebear> o/
20:26 <Arch67> (like a starving horse or cat/dog will eat food it usually will not)
20:27 <tinklebear> yeah, it's probably when starving
20:27 <Arch67> food time for me too
20:27 <krm26> only way to give your pegasus telepathy
20:27 <tinklebear> but it was ONLY chameleon corpses.
20:27 <tinklebear> no other meaty foods
20:27 <Arch67> CAN you do that?!?
20:27 <Arch67> surely you are joking?
20:27 <tinklebear> no joke
20:27 <Arch67> no krm
20:27 <krm26> yes, a starving pegasus will eat a floating eye
20:27 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] rebatelo (Mon Hum Mal Neu) had Keolewa bestowed upon him by Chih Sung-tzu, on T:30732 (7:12:47)
20:27 <tinklebear> it was real, and it bit me not a few times
20:27 <Arch67> throw a a floating eye at a starving pegasus?
20:28 <Arch67> wow. cool.
20:28 <tinklebear> no way
20:28 <krm26> or better yet, a snark
20:28 <tinklebear> lies
20:28 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 22772 points, T:6641, suffocated by a creeping mound
20:28 <tinklebear> hello, krm26
20:28 <Arch67> also fun to give them black puddings, gray ooze and brown puddings when starving/ really hungryu..... give them resistance they cannot get oherwise.
20:29 <Arch67> otherwise
20:29 <tinklebear> more lies
20:29 <Arch67> nope.  works on horsies, too.   :)
20:29 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Rog Gno Fem Neu) defeated Kathryn the Ice Queen, on T:94991 (1 day, 10:33:58)
20:30 <tinklebear> I *have* seen horses eat globs. they apparently get nutrition, but I've never seen them get any resistances from them
20:30 <Arch67> yeah, I've had one get shock resistance from a brown pudding.
20:30 <Arch67> also, from black puddings.
20:31 <tinklebear> what pet?
20:31 <Arch67> herbivore.
20:31 <tinklebear> what pet?
20:31 <Arch67> its been a while.
20:31 <tinklebear> evasive!
20:31 <Arch67> may have been a nightmare/cauchemar
20:31 <tinklebear> I'll believe it when I see it, and not before
20:32 <Arch67> I was surprised it happened. at it off the ground.
20:32 <tinklebear> yeah, a starving horse will eat a glob
20:32 <Arch67> now, I throw them at herbivore, purposefully starving them.
20:32 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Wiz Gno Fem Cha) had Frost Brand bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:65386 (12:26:14)
20:32 <tinklebear> but if they're getting resistances from that, then something is new
20:32 <tinklebear> that did not used to happen
20:32 <Arch67> they even eat gelatinous cubes, and that can give them, what, 5 resistances?
20:32 <Arch67> 4?
20:33 <tinklebear> only if something has changed.
20:33 <tinklebear> oh, wait. no.
20:33 <tinklebear> I've never seen them eat an acidic corpse, period
20:33 <tinklebear> only globs
20:33 <Arch67> love the new black molds.  even if hungry they'll eat those.  sleep resistance!  :)
20:33 <tinklebear> I've tried to get them to
20:34 <Arch67> wait!
20:34 <tinklebear> sure. but "they even eat gelatinous cubes" <--- AFAIK, this is untrue
20:34 <Arch67> that was not a herbivore, that was an omnivore!
20:34 <tinklebear> yeah. and one that tolerates acid too
20:34 <tinklebear> I bet
20:34 <Arch67> humanoid who ate a gelatinous cube and got a resistance.
20:34 <Arch67> no, it was not acid tolerant.
20:34 <tinklebear> wearing an apron or something
20:35 <Arch67> hmmm... that pose an interesting possibility.
20:35 <Arch67> I swear it wasn;t but I could be wrong!
20:35 <tinklebear> I've tried a lot of these things, you know
20:35 <tinklebear> so my experience informs my skepticism
20:35 <Arch67> fun that you do!
20:35 <tinklebear> but it could always be outdated!
20:36 <Arch67> so many play a straightforward game.
20:36 <Arch67> I like to tinker.
20:36 <tinklebear> :D
20:36 <Arch67> probably also how I get into trouble --- a lot!
20:38 <tinklebear> hehe
20:38 <tinklebear> trouble is just another word for having a good time
20:40 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Wiz Gno Fem Cha) had Stormbringer bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:65781 (12:34:10)
20:41 <krm26> twin pegs!
20:41 <tinklebear> nice
20:41 <tinklebear> <K2> in evilhack, if a pet is 'full' they wont eat food on
20:41 <krm26> k2, there should be some veggie that makes your pet lay an egg :-)
20:41 <krm26> passionfruit
20:41 <tinklebear> "...the floor until they become not satiated. 800 nutrition"
20:41 <tinklebear> ^I missed this. this is very useful to know
20:43 <tinklebear> so that's why they won't eat the leaf when you drop it
20:45 <tinklebear> generally my horse spends about at least two thirds of its time above 800 nutrition
20:45 <tinklebear> there's my problem then
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20:54 <krm26> really? i can never keep herbivores fed. i like engulfers
20:56 <tinklebear> I can see the appeal of engulfers
20:56 <tinklebear> :D
20:57 <tinklebear> I feed horses food rations, which is 3200 nutrition for them
20:57 <tinklebear> so, long periods of time between feedings
20:58 <krm26> isnt that dangerous? it is easy to accidentally let them go until they are confused with hunger, and then it can be difficult to get them to eat a ration
20:58 <tinklebear> that's the only way I know to get them to eat them, yeah
20:59 <tinklebear> is it dangerous? I mean, if you lose track of the time then yeah that's the end
20:59 <tinklebear> but if you know the schedule, and keep to it, then there's no particular danger
20:59 <tinklebear> it induces a sort of rhythm to your plans
20:59 <tinklebear> your *other* plans, I mean
21:00 <tinklebear> the ones that don't involve horse feed
21:00 <krm26> plus you dont want to dismount if you arent a knight, and feeding while mounted can be a pain, sometimes they are just dumbasses
21:00 <krm26> ithilmar is the answer to all this, ithilmar is so great
21:00 <tinklebear> when they're starving, they'll eat the food you drop
21:00 <tinklebear> ithilmar is... like sauron or something. wth
21:01 <tinklebear> dystopian equine bondage outfit
21:01 <krm26> i wish i could put it on my purple worm
21:01 <tinklebear> lol
21:01 <krm26> but k2 keeps kink shaming me
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21:02 <tinklebear> oh, I see what you're saying about dismounts 
21:02 <tinklebear> :D
21:06 <tinklebear> er, maybe I don't see what you're saying about dismounts
21:06 <tinklebear> I mean I *do*. non-knights want to minimise mounts
21:07 <tinklebear> but as far as getting a horse to eat rations...
21:07 <tinklebear> ...I don't think dismounting makes a difference
21:07 <tinklebear> I have never seen a starving horse fail to eat a food ration
21:08 <tinklebear> off the floor
21:08 <tinklebear> my guess would be, that if they are not eating the food ration off the floor, then they are not starving
21:09 <tinklebear> I wonder if maybe the problem you describe (which I have not seen myself), is like this:
21:10 <tinklebear> er, nevermind
21:10 <krm26> i would swear i have seen plenty of situations where a mount would eat a thrown edible but not a dropped edible
21:10 <tinklebear> yeah, that sounds like treats
21:10 <krm26> that they have heavier restrictions when mounted
21:11 <tinklebear> hm
21:11 <krm26> but i admit ive never bothered to codedive about it for the trvth :-)
21:11 <tinklebear> and yeah, we were just discussing the case where thrown eucalyptus gets eaten, but dropped eucalyptus often does not
21:12 <tinklebear> so, in my experience:
21:12 <tinklebear> a thrown treat will ALWAYS be eaten
21:13 <tinklebear> also, (as i now understand, thanks to K2) a satiated (800 nutritioned) horse will decline to eat treats off the ground
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21:14 <tinklebear> (I haven't tested this last bit out myself extensively/empirically, but it would make a lot of sense)
21:15 <tinklebear> when starving, they'll eat rations -- off the ground, thrown, doesn't matter
21:16 <tinklebear> oh, "this last bit" is an ambiguous pointer, isnt' it?
21:16 <tinklebear> I meant the part about satiated horses
21:17 <tinklebear> I'm confident about the starving part
21:18 <tinklebear> figuring out when they will begin starving is the part that's a little tricky
21:18 <tinklebear> easiest way to pin that down is to chat to them about every hundred turns or so, until they whinny
21:19 <tinklebear> then feed them an apple or something. something of known nutritional value.
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21:20 <tinklebear> if its an apple, that's 50 nutrition for you, so 4*50 == 200 turns of nutrition for the horse.
21:20 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Wiz Dro Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, acquiring a copper amulet of magic resistance, on T:18915 (4:11:25)
21:20 <tinklebear> so now you know that 200 turns from now the horse will become hungry again, and so 500 turns after *that* it'll start to be starving
21:21 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 12554 points, T:12375, killed by a mumak
21:21 <tinklebear> ie, 700 turns after you relieved its hunger with an apple, it will be starving, and will accept a food ration
21:23 <tinklebear> now, if you do this, there is also the issue of starvation cutting maxHP down to one-third normal
21:23 <tinklebear> which if you aren't careful, could get the pet killed of course
21:24 <tinklebear> so after you relieve its starvation (food ration or whatever), you'd want to heal it back to normal maxHP
21:24 <tinklebear> if you have the means
21:24 <tinklebear> unless you've got a lot of time to kill waiting for it to heal up naturally
21:25 <krm26> i wish there was better #chat feedback for various degrees of hunger for all major types of pets (including dragons, etc)
21:27 <tinklebear> heh, some way of discovery would be interesting
21:28 <tinklebear> oh. if you know the normal max HP of the pet, a stethoscope will reveal when they are starving
21:28 <tinklebear> because it'll be one-third of normal
21:29 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Wiz Gno Fem Cha) had Ogresmasher bestowed upon her by Anhur, on T:66899 (13:23:10)
21:30 <tinklebear> you know, pseudodragons have a hiss that begins some number of turns (not sure how many) *before* they are ready to eat
21:30 <tinklebear> so there's quite a bit of variety already, among the different pets
21:31 <tinklebear> and by "ready to eat", I guess I assume that means "hungry", like when a horse will begin to whinny (and so will eat non-treats like bananas or oranges)
21:32 -!- Arch67 has quit [Quit: Client closed]
21:36 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Rog Dro Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:2424 (0:14:46)
21:36 <tinklebear> I've blown past way my chat quota today
21:36 <tinklebear> *way past
21:37 <tinklebear> probably an avoidance tactic, there's an alhoon waiting to kill me in gehennom
21:37 <K2> heh
21:37 <K2> yeah lots of backscroll to catch up on today
21:37 * tinklebear is sheepish
21:39 <krm26> im not complaining, because it makes stacking irritating, but surprised that manufacturing 82 shuriken with a blessed hammer and maxed luck gave me just 4 improved results
21:42 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Rog Dro Mal Cha) became literate by engraving "sdflkj", on T:3687 (0:20:43)
21:45 <K2> you get superior or exceptional
21:45 <K2> ?
21:45 <K2> or both
21:45 <krm26> didnt id, all of one or the other, in a single event
21:45 <K2> ah
21:45 <krm26> just seems like a low rate
21:46 <krm26> but as i said, conflicted, because id kind of rather have a single stack even if it is worse :-)
21:52 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Wiz Gno Fem Cha) killed the Abominable Snowman, on T:67883 (13:45:54)
21:52 <K2> yay the nethack devteam finally fixed the feral pet starving on re-taming
21:53 <K2> https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/commit/3aecc90b2da4a4093020ccca4a414a39c11cae5f
21:53 <K2> i'll get that into evilhack
21:53 <K2> its funny, there's been a few 3.7 bugs id'ed and fixed because of 3.7 code ported over to evilhack and the bugs discovered here first hah
21:54 <K2> i dont tell the devteam that though
21:54 <K2> i jst confirm the bug in 3.7
22:00 <tinklebear> heh
22:01 <K2> so did you hear that a group of scientists successfully made 3 dire wolves?
22:01 <K2> un-extincted them
22:01 <tinklebear> what does this mean?
22:01 -!- qt has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
22:01 <K2> lemme dig up the article
22:01 <K2> (that's not behind a fucking pay wall)
22:02 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Rog Dro Mal Cha), 8519 points, T:6400, killed by a gnomish wizard
22:02 <K2> https://time.com/7274542/colossal-dire-wolf/
22:03 <K2> TL;DR: using genetic material from ancient dire wolf bones, scientists spliced genetic sample with that of a grey wolf, did some editing, *poof* we now have three living dire wolf pups
22:03 <K2> full grown they could weigh in at 180+ lbs
22:03 * tinklebear has mixed feelings
22:03 <tinklebear> that nobody cares about!
22:03 <K2> almost dbl the size of a full grown timber wolf
22:04 <tinklebear> heh
22:04 <K2> this is a very big deal
22:05 <K2> if we have a viable genetic sample of any animal that's now extinct, they could be brought back
22:05 <K2> hello jurasic park
22:06 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Wiz Dro Fem Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon her by Lolth, on T:23196 (4:57:35)
22:07 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Wiz Gno Fem Cha) defeated Kathryn the Ice Queen, on T:68361 (14:01:16)
22:07 <K2> we're gonna see a woolly mammoth
22:08 <K2> that's gonna be awesome
22:08 <K2> just in time for the poles to melt
22:09 <tinklebear> thanks for the link, k2
22:09 <K2> o/
22:10 <K2> crazy, the male pups are only 6 months old and already 80+ lbs
22:11 <tinklebear> puppies grow fast, i seem to recall
22:13 <K2> yup
22:15 <tinklebear> i have misgivings. they relate to the observation that people tend to assume that all they see is all there is
22:15 <tinklebear> and in this case, by "people" I mean people who are scientists
22:16 <tinklebear> but I hope the individual canines involved here enjoy happy fulfilling lives
22:17 <K2> they're on a 2000 acre protected preserve
22:17 <tinklebear> cool
22:33 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Wiz Dro Fem Cha) had Werebane bestowed upon her by Lolth, on T:25691 (5:24:31)
22:39 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Monk (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 4248 points, T:5754, killed by a dark elven crossbow bolt
22:41 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> i think scientists are generally some of the best people at NOT assuming all they see is all there is, actually
22:45 * tinklebear has some stories
22:46 <tinklebear> but I meant to say that my misgivings apply to humanity in general, fwiw
22:47 <tinklebear> (merely specifying that scientists are in no way exempt)
22:47 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> i think i misunderstood a little, i actually do agree wrt to scientists a bit lol
22:48 <tinklebear> :D
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23:04 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] mightyquinn (Arc Hum Mal Law) had a helmet entrusted to him by Quetzalcoatl, on T:33633 (6:27:17)
23:05 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed the invisible Gollum, on T:2440 (0:14:40)
23:08 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:2842 (0:18:05)
23:19 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) destroyed the invisible splungetoo's ghost, the former Skirmisher, on T:3933 (0:28:35)
23:21 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 dragonhide bracers of decay", on T:85794 (22:02:09)
23:24 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:4449 (0:33:56)
23:24 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4461 (0:34:17)
23:39 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:5690 (0:48:43)
23:55 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Yeshua (Mon Hum Fem Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3780 (0:38:34)
23:57 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Merc (Rog Dro Mal Cha), 192 points, T:998, killed by a goblin