00:05 I'd love to know the statistics of how many times a boomerang has been used per games played 00:08 <@Loggers_VIII> no one has actually used boomerangs but i'm sure at least some people besides me give them a toss for shits and giggles when they find one 00:11 Furey's done a bit with them iirc 00:15 <@Loggers_VIII> oh, if we're talking vanilla people have definitely forced themselves to use them on occasion 00:16 <@Loggers_VIII> in evilhack i would never though. you don't have the luxury of fucking around 00:20 <@Loggers_VIII> bad in melee (and they have a chance to splinter anyway) too rare to bother with getting stacks of, when you do actually use them you need 20 dex to allow for safe return (and multishot by extension), irregular flight pattern makes them inconvenient for attacking stuff that isn't very close, etc 00:22 <@Loggers_VIII> though i think the 20 dex for return stuff doesn't matter that much. probably only if you kill a monster and then multishot and it comes back since there isn't anything to hit - but that assumes you're in a space where the trajectory even works out for returning, which isn't that likely 00:22 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Dru Hum Fem Neu) had a cloth studded armor entrusted to her by Silvanus, on T:69154 (17:59:37) 00:22 <@Loggers_VIII> i dunno. tl;dr they suck ass 00:24 <@Loggers_VIII> half the weight of daggers and almost twice the damage, though! 00:24 <@Loggers_VIII> not almost. over 00:31 -!- arahael has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Dru Hum Fem Neu) killed the Abominable Snowman, on T:69615 (18:14:45) 00:50 I think someone put them in the game because they came up with a clever bit of code and wanted to implement it 00:51 it would make better game-sense if they just went straight out and back. Would be pretty amazing to have a multishot weapon like that. Carry 4, auto reload 00:54 probably OP 01:23 not that I disagree but I think boomerangs specifically are a case of like 01:23 a solution looking for a problem 01:24 rather than 'just' sucking 01:39 [hdf-us] [evil] xialg (Val Hum Fem Law) had a large shield entrusted to her by Tyr, on T:40732 (10:03:38) 01:42 [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Kni Dro Mal Cha) had a pair of water walking boots entrusted to him by Lolth, on T:33059 (4:27:25) 01:57 [hdf-us] [evil] xialg (Val Hum Fem Law) had Frost Brand bestowed upon her by Tyr, on T:42129 (10:21:42) 02:07 [hdf-us] [evil] xialg (Val Hum Fem Law) had a pair of gauntlets of dexterity entrusted to her by Tyr, on T:42642 (10:31:16) 02:10 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 26582 points, T:12159, killed by a mumak 02:42 [hdf-au] [evil] Arch (Dru Hum Mal Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:25247 (7:40:48) 03:11 -!- Umbire is now known as Guest5981 03:11 -!- Umbire has joined #evilhack 03:15 -!- Guest5981 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:18 -!- malor_ has joined #evilhack 03:21 -!- malor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:36 -!- arahael has joined #evilhack 04:42 -!- Glasshopper has joined #evilhack 04:43 -!- Glasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:45 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:51 -!- Grasshopper has joined #evilhack 04:53 -!- Grassy has joined #evilhack 04:57 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:14 [hdf-au] [evil] Arch (Dru Hum Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, acquiring a bag of holding, on T:30311 (9:43:00) 05:39 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 05:48 -!- Grassy is now known as Grasshopper 05:50 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Law) killed the Goblin King, on T:1272 (0:20:05) 05:51 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Law) killed Gollum, on T:1499 (0:21:04) 05:53 [hdf-au] [evil] Arch (Dru Hum Mal Neu), 45687 points, T:31674, quit 05:58 [hdf-us] [evil] Arch (Dru Hum Fem Neu), 801452 points, T:90972, quit 05:59 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Law), 3021 points, T:2274, killed by a giant anaconda 06:14 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Law) killed the Goblin King, on T:1427 (0:15:20) 06:21 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Cav Hum Mal Neu) had a spear entrusted to him by Ishtar, on T:34155 (17:33:15) 06:31 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Law), 4593 points, T:2674, killed by a bolt of fire 06:31 DragonSidedD's bones is dangerious. :P 06:42 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 06:59 -!- Tangles has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:59 -!- Tangles has joined #evilhack 07:04 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 07:15 -!- aosdict has joined #evilhack 07:29 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Cav Hum Mal Neu) had a pair of gauntlets of dexterity entrusted to him by Ishtar, on T:34341 (17:42:13) 07:42 [hdf-us] [evil] Snuff (Rog Dro Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (two random monsters from class R), on T:28644 (16:25:28) 07:50 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Cav Hum Mal Neu) had a shield of reflection entrusted to him by Ishtar, on T:35367 (17:56:55) 07:59 -!- elron has joined #evilhack 08:02 -!- Imanity has joined #evilhack 08:02 [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) murdered her faithful tortle shaman, on T:8 (0:00:09) 08:03 [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) murdered her faithful hobbit mummy, on T:18 (0:00:16) 08:03 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Cav Hum Mal Neu) had Vorpal Blade bestowed upon him by Ishtar, on T:36153 (18:09:27) 08:05 [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) murdered her faithful orc shaman, on T:18 (0:00:15) 08:11 [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) murdered her faithful pseudodragon, on T:3 (0:00:05) 08:13 [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) murdered her faithful pseudodragon, on T:11 (0:00:09) 08:14 [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) murdered her faithful pseudodragon, on T:9 (0:00:09) 08:25 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:26 -!- terrapin has joined #evilhack 08:29 [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:1856 (0:08:19) 08:38 -!- malor_ has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:38 -!- malor has joined #evilhack 08:49 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fixed magic marker", on T:83923 (21:23:38) 09:02 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha) used a forge to create Shadowblade, on T:84480 (21:35:55) 09:14 -!- terrapin has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:23 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 09:37 woo 09:57 -!- Imanity has quit [Quit: Client closed] 10:08 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 229 points, T:883, killed by a water elemental 10:14 -!- Imanity has joined #evilhack 10:20 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:1174 (0:11:49) 10:40 [hdf-us] [evil] Snuff (Rog Dro Fem Cha) wished for "blessed +2 dragonhide hawaiian shirt of drain resistance", on T:29127 (17:55:03) 10:48 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed Gollum, on T:3078 (0:39:58) 10:49 -!- elron has quit [Quit: Client closed] 10:59 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4613 (0:51:03) 11:05 [hdf-us] [evil] Yeshua (Kni Elf Mal Cha), 725 points, T:1463, killed by a mountain dwarf 11:09 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:1587 (0:11:25) 11:10 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:1745 (0:13:10) 11:25 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) killed Gollum, on T:3304 (0:27:25) 11:26 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 11:37 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) had Secespita bestowed upon him by Moloch, on T:4850 (0:40:12) 11:38 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Cav Hum Mal Neu) had Fire Brand bestowed upon him by Ishtar, on T:37798 (18:38:00) 11:40 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) had a copper elven dagger entrusted to him by Moloch, on T:5375 (0:42:40) 11:41 [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Kni Dro Mal Cha) had a crystal dwarvish bearded axe entrusted to him by Lolth, on T:45234 (6:09:24) 11:44 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) killed the Oracle, on T:5949 (0:47:12) 11:55 [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Kni Dro Mal Cha), 324399 points, T:46396, suffocated by a sea dragon 12:02 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a Grey-elf, on T:10302 (1:53:51) 12:13 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una), 18552 points, T:8992, killed by a warg, while paralyzed by a monster 12:36 -!- dingotron has joined #evilhack 12:42 @umbire no RNG for knock spell or wand of opening, so I cleared Katheryn's level as far as the altar and chest in order to buy protection (also the first/only aligned priest in the game so far). I'll come back to face Katheryn herself when I have some better way to actually get the rewards out ot the chests. Meanwhile, snuck into the castle with 12:42 phasing to nab the wand (1:2). So now need to prioritize what to wish for. Still need a few key things like source of free action, crystal plate mail, dragonhide robe, oilskin helm, spellbook of knock, spellbook of identify, spellbook of magic missile. I don't think all that's going to fit in two wishes ;) 12:45 heh 12:48 hey in 0.9 can crystal plate mail still have properties. like Crystal Plate Mail of decay? or did that change a while back. 12:49 <@Loggers_VIII> do you not have bell of opening dingotron? 12:49 -!- rebatelo has joined #evilhack 12:56 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:1596 (0:10:23) 13:00 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:2242 (0:13:57) 13:00 crystal plate mail can have a property. but the property disappears if you dragon-scale it 13:01 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) killed the invisible Gollum, on T:2502 (0:15:53) 13:16 -!- elron has joined #evilhack 13:17 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha) entered the Wizard of Yendor's lair, on T:84985 (21:47:01) 13:21 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:85154 (21:51:18) 13:21 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:85158 (21:51:33) 13:24 what mobileuser said 13:24 beat me to it (was working on another fix) 13:25 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatelo (Mon Hum Mal Neu) had a leather cloak of protection entrusted to him by Chih Sung-tzu, on T:26149 (5:32:01) 13:27 @loggers I do, but all else being equal, was hoping to not burn it's charges until I have to. The bag is nice, and maybe a pegasus mount, but I can get by for a while without. 13:28 mobileuser thanks! That makes some sense, double-dipping properties with the scales would be a little OP. 13:28 someone gets it 13:28 \o/ 13:29 ha 13:32 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha) performed the invocation, on T:85442 (22:02:30) 13:33 EvilHack Commits: Fix: impossible "portal on top of portal??" when loading Gehennom lev… https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/6ea87665a2b9befa73cbec8ff470f0d94a7578a2 13:35 -!- terrapin has joined #evilhack 13:35 heya terrapin 13:37 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha) killed the elven high priestess of Moloch, on T:85614 (22:07:17) 13:37 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:85619 (22:07:40) 13:38 woo go elron 13:39 paralysis not boulder forts you say ..... 13:40 boulder fort can still help as in buy sometime 13:41 after a boulder is broken there's a brief amount of time before they can break another 13:41 but yeah paralysis potions are your friend 13:41 wield them, dont throw 13:41 yup, that's my usual drill with vecna 13:43 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha) killed Lucifer, on T:85670 (22:13:09) 13:43 \o/ 13:44 well, less drama than I was expecting 13:45 [hdf-eu] [evil] Marzhikh (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 20 points, T:162, killed by a boulder 13:45 -!- dingotron has quit [Quit: Client closed] 13:45 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha) entered Purgatory, on T:85685 (22:15:19) 13:45 heh 13:51 hmm i supposed next up... that weird stacking bug 13:51 mobileuser i still have that save where you had potions and scrolls not stacking like they should 13:51 -!- Imanity has quit [Quit: Client closed] 13:51 this makes me sad 13:51 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha) killed Saint Michael, on T:85831 (22:21:32) 13:56 [hdf-eu] [evil] Marzhikh (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 828 points, T:1037, killed by the Goblin King, while sleeping 13:59 [hdf-au] [evil] post163 (Wiz Hob Mal Neu), 0 points, T:1, killed by a bolt of fire 14:00 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) killed the Rat King, on T:7188 (1:14:32) 14:03 -!- rebatelo has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:05 <@shrigis> Hey did the sewer mines ebd get reworked? It seems to be a no-teleport level now 14:06 no 14:07 <@shrigis> Then do i feel disoriented when i zap myself with teleportation 14:07 <@shrigis> Why* 14:08 you're an infidel 14:08 you prob have the AoY on you still 14:09 <@shrigis> Oh so it's literally impossible for this role to get the magic key then? 14:09 no 14:09 <@shrigis> Yes 14:09 use your brain 14:09 <@shrigis> Can't teleport 14:09 there's a way 14:09 <@shrigis> Nope 14:09 ok whatever dude 14:10 <@shrigis> Missing secret doors 14:10 <@shrigis> Undiggable walls 14:10 <@shrigis> No teleportation 14:10 use - your - asshole - brain 14:10 <@shrigis> Impossibility 14:12 <@shrigis> Really poorly designed level. 14:12 <@shrigis> You have to go through the poop water AND kill an extra boss AND get teleport control AND not be an infidel to claim the rewards which are basically free in every other mines end 14:12 go away shrigis 14:12 all you do is complain and troll 14:13 <@shrigis> This is like 3.6.0 orc town 14:13 there's a solution, not my problem if you cant/dont want to see it 14:13 <@shrigis> Even if i wasn't an infidel the dude didn't drop a teleport control ring so its impossible anyway 14:14 <@shrigis> No point 14:14 go 14:14 away 14:14 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha) entered the Planes, on T:86864 (22:44:21) 14:14 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5 times), on T:86866 (22:44:32) 14:15 <@hackemslashem> I think k2s hinting at dropping the AoY so you can tele 🙂 14:16 <@shrigis> It teleports away 14:16 <@shrigis> Can't do that 14:18 <@shrigis> Only option is to get staff of the archmagi and phase through the walls 14:19 <@01-MTF> While I'm not familiar with evilhack per say, if the dev is telling you theres a way, then there's a way. Figure it out and stop harassing them or we'll be having more of a chat 14:22 <@shrigis> Yeah its cool i already figured it out, just need to get phasing 14:30 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha) killed Famine, on T:87346 (22:59:37) 14:30 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha) killed the Black Horse, on T:87346 (22:59:38) 14:35 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha) put Death down for a little nap, on T:87498 (23:05:05) 14:35 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha) destroyed the Pale Horse, on T:87499 (23:05:08) 14:37 mobileuser it's not readily apparent why those obj arent stacking 14:37 the newer obj structs are accounted for in mergable() 14:41 Hmmm had my helm of brilliance destroyed, but my Int and Wis are still boosted. 14:42 curses mode? 14:42 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Kni Hum Mal Cha), 7890464 points, T:87582, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/e/elron/evilhack/dumplog/1740919020.evil.html 14:42 nope 14:42 weird 14:43 and congrats! 14:43 \o/ 14:43 oh i bet i know what's going on there 14:43 it was destroyed via monster destroy armor spell? 14:43 thx - Dirge \o/ 14:43 yes 14:43 ok 14:46 yay congrats elron! 14:47 thx -- less drama in the endgame this time 14:48 ah yes, phasing is the way to do it for infidel in the sewers 14:50 <@shrigis> Ok cool thanks for the confirmation 14:50 and the rewards are a lot better on this level. might suck to get that level, but hey, RNG 14:50 other people hate orc town 14:52 -!- Umbire has joined #evilhack 14:53 -!- terrapin has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:54 sewers mines's end is also no phase 14:54 fyi 14:55 elron I just had a monster destroy my HoB, the int/wis decreased as it should 14:55 maybe a turn hadnt passed yet? assuming you were fast/very fast 14:57 really K2? sorry then @shrigis I thought I had used phasing in a game once for the sewers 14:57 yeah. was made that way quite awhile ago. may have been an early iteration where you did phase 14:59 yeah in that case the only way would be to drop the amulet somewhere safe like soko and start teleporting 14:59 pretty risky and probably not worth it 14:59 may be worth it. treasure in that room is pretty good at this stage of the game 15:05 I wouldn't risk it without a number of cursed teleport scrolls and a couple of full healings, but it's not likely you have alll that at this stage 15:08 <@shrigis> Wth 15:08 K2 eh, maybe but unlikely. I noticed once I made it to the right altar. Likely had been that way for a while. But dunno. 15:08 <@shrigis> Why would it be unphaseable??? 15:08 <@shrigis> It's literally a sewer 15:09 challenging level 15:10 you could argue that acquiring phasing is a challenge K2 15:10 you could 15:10 <@shrigis> The flavor is really bad for that level. Like the sewer has completely sealed off rooms?? With monsters in there??? How did they get it? Why would anyone design it that way? Why is there phase-proof magic on the walls? 15:10 its also easier to acquire than previously 15:11 late but good job dingo 15:11 <@shrigis> Also extreme railroading to exactly ONE possible solution 15:11 1) no it isnt 2) one room yes (treasure room) 3) yes 4) magic 5) to make it chalenging 6) see #5 15:12 <@shrigis> How many things in nethack have only one way to do them properly? 15:12 @shrigis a few 15:12 <@shrigis> Like what 15:12 invocation 15:12 quest acceptance 15:12 <@shrigis> Bruh 15:12 -!- dingotron has joined #evilhack 15:12 offdering the amulet of yendor 15:12 <@shrigis> Nope, you can kill the quest leader now 15:12 *offering 15:13 sokoban 15:13 nice! elron did you paralysis on Lucifer too? 15:13 <@shrigis> Invocation and offering the amulet? Really? Now ur trolling 15:13 no? i'm being honest 15:13 <@shrigis> Also sokoban has cheating so no 15:14 <@shrigis> Don't actually "have" to do the puzzle, just use scrolls of earth 15:14 if you know of a different way to do the invocation, i'm all ears 15:15 regardless - the sewers mines end is designed that way on purpose, it's meant to be a challenge. if you dont like it, then dont do it. its not required to win the game 15:15 dingotron - yup, he never even got a hit in 15:15 nice! 15:16 <@shrigis> All I'm saying is that having the otherwise guaranteed rewards being locked behind an extra challenge, where like half of the challenge is getting a fairly uncommon extrinsic doesn't sit well with me 15:16 did you throw or wield? I'm always concerned with losing precious extra turn switching back to primary weapon 15:17 Always wield, never throw 15:17 @shrigis duly noted 15:19 <@shrigis> At least have multiple ways of approaching the puzzle, maybe there's like a bunch of independent random secret doors, so there's like a 50% chance to just walk in - still have to deal with the rat king and the poop, also don't know where the doors are at the start (random every game) 15:19 huh. using white scales for the first time (because it was also first dragon to drop any). Its pretty fun to blaze a solidified trail across the map! (for some reason I always expected the ground to stay frozen only while you were on top of it) 15:20 <@shrigis> Banning phasing is just stupid. That should be a valid solution 15:20 ok shrigis 15:20 <@shrigis> Honestly would have been perfectly fine if evilhack had potions of phasing, then just leave everything as is with it enabled 15:22 dingotron, this ain't mario galaxy lol 15:22 do you still slip on ice with white-dragon scaled armor? 15:23 good question 15:23 I don't mind rat king level that much. The rat king's sword is a great get. And as soon as I see sewage in mines, I know not to bother going down there until equipped with flying or levitation, and tele control. And poison resistance. Phasing would be a cool option too. But usually don't have source phasing that easily so early in the game, so 15:23 might not be that big a deal to allow. If however you can't get tele control, that level is a huge pain. 15:24 I don't think so 15:26 I am walking on a lot of ice right now and not slipping. Using the white scales to walk around the castle so that I can keep my amulet of reflection worn, and don't have to put on amulet of flying. 15:26 However, I am hoping that I can't still fall through ice if I ever get blasted with a fireball or wand of fire etc. I don't know1 15:28 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) completed Sokoban, acquiring a bag of holding, on T:11663 (2:22:43) 15:31 the rat king sometimes spawns with a ring of tele control 15:35 rat kings saber of venom + mithril elven short sword = Mithril Elven Broadsword of venom. That dual wield with stormy and I'm one 1-2 shotting everything in the castle. Dragons and soldiers go down so fast vs poison. 15:35 in general it's so nice that poison can remain semi-viable into the late stages 15:35 -!- rebatelo has joined #evilhack 15:36 dingotron I think you're safe even if someone uses a wand of fire 15:37 When playing multi-shot capable players, a stack of venom throwables is so helpful vs late game dragon-spam. Or Minotaurs etc. 15:37 <@01-MTF> maybe you didn't hear me 15:37 <@01-MTF> I'm muting you for 24 hours 15:37 mobileuser I hope so! :) 15:37 heh 15:38 <@01-MTF> You can engage in constructive criticism without talking to devs like whatever this is 15:39 <@01-MTF> until you figure out how to do that, we're gonna be chatting a lot 15:50 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una), 66026 points, T:13220, killed by an assassin vine 15:54 <@shrigis> > the rat king sometimes spawns with a ring of tele control 15:54 <@shrigis> Key word sometimes 15:55 <@shrigis> Again if that were guaranteed, no problem - sure it's an extra boss but thats the challenge 15:56 <@shrigis> But as is the challenge is literally not on the level itself. Just search the dungeon until you have teleport control 16:02 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Cav Hum Mal Neu) had Dragonbane bestowed upon him by Ishtar, on T:39465 (19:39:39) 16:02 yay 16:03 -1 Dragonbane :-P 16:04 what did you do 16:04 with harbinger I have given up trying to avoid peacefuls 16:04 "you have a vague sense of guilt" 16:05 at this stage of the game, it's only a minor irritant 16:06 -!- dingotron has quit [Quit: Client closed] 16:07 RIP 16:16 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:1330 (0:09:02) 16:19 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:1756 (0:12:44) 16:20 [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3102 (0:16:00) 16:20 [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 2669 points, T:3106, killed by a rope golem 16:21 -!- elron has quit [Quit: Client closed] 16:22 [hdf-us] [evil] Havoc (Inf Ith Mal Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:1930 (0:16:15) 16:28 [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:1559 (0:07:57) 16:28 [hdf-us] [evil] Havoc (Inf Ith Mal Una) killed Gollum, on T:2633 (0:22:45) 16:35 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) changed form for the first time, becoming a pit fiend, on T:3065 (0:28:08) 16:40 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) rejected atheism by offering a wolf corpse on an altar of Moloch, on T:3390 (0:33:13) 16:40 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) had Secespita bestowed upon him by Moloch, on T:3390 (0:33:14) 16:44 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:3659 (0:37:43) 17:00 -!- elron has joined #evilhack 17:01 [hdf-us] [evil] Havoc (Inf Ith Mal Una) murdered Hecubus, his faithful greater homunculus, on T:5843 (0:55:39) 17:01 [hdf-us] [evil] Havoc (Inf Ith Mal Una), 5900 points, T:5843, killed by a dark elven watch captain 17:09 [hdf-us] [evil] ohayoSioh (Inf Dra Mal Una) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:5711 (1:04:10) 17:10 <@Loggers_VIII> the secret room in the sewer is pretty lame, I would prefer if it was accessible via secret door but it contained the rat king along with a few guaranteed mounds and giant crocodiles 17:11 [hdf-us] [evil] ohayoSioh (Inf Dra Mal Una) averted death (killed by an ogre), on T:5729 (1:05:14) 17:11 <@Loggers_VIII> that way it’s less tedious and rng-heavy to get in there, but getting to the loot poses a large threat 17:13 <@Loggers_VIII> right now getting to the loot is kind of a test of patience more than anything else, unless you get lucky and get telecontrol from the rat king or elsewhere, in which case it’s not interesting at all 17:13 <@Loggers_VIII> it’s very one-dimensional as a puzzle, which I dislike (I think shrigis was expressing similar concern) 17:15 it's how he conveyed his thoughts loggers 17:15 I agree from a design perspective you typically want to give the player multiple ways they can accomplish something, that keeps the headroom high in ais523 terms 17:16 is it still the case that you can teleport into an inescapable spot in that mines end with no way out? 17:16 if you think it's lame, feel free to sumbit a PR with any design changes 17:16 aosdict you mean the wine cellar level? 17:17 well maybe also that, but I was referring to the rat king sewer 17:17 *submit 17:17 no its not inescapable 17:17 there's a tele trap inside the treasure room 17:18 <@Loggers_VIII> yeah, I get that he was a shitass 17:19 it could be argued that one mines end shouldn't be way harder than the other mines ends, but since orctown exists I don't think that particular argument holds up 17:19 <@Loggers_VIII> and respectfully, “PR it” is silly. it’s a nothing-burger response to actual discussion 17:19 no it isnt loggers, that's a legit request 17:19 if you think you can do it better, submit a design 17:20 <@Loggers_VIII> I never said I can make your game better than you, I’m just throwing suggestions out there :p 17:20 no you arent actually 17:20 One's mine's ending being significantly harder than the others is fine imho. It's all optionala nyway and it's just additional fun variation. 17:21 <@Loggers_VIII> “the secret room in the sewer is pretty lame, I would prefer if it was accessible via secret door but it contained the rat king along with a few guaranteed mounds and giant crocodiles” this is not suggesting? 17:21 [hdf-us] [evil] ohayoSioh (Inf Dra Mal Una), 9231 points, T:6368, killed by a jaguar, while running out of chances to revive 17:21 I think a problem with "PRs accepted" is it doesn't make your own position clear? like it's ambiguous whether you lean more towards "yeah this could probably be done better but it's not my top priority" or "I think it's perfect, but you can implement what you think is better if you want" 17:21 <@Loggers_VIII> yes, exactly aosdict 17:22 that mines end was purposely made more difficult. this is evilhack remember? 17:22 ffs 17:22 <@Loggers_VIII> I’m suggesting a way to make it more difficult… 17:22 <@Loggers_VIII> stepping on a tele trap 100 times in a row is difficulty) 17:22 <@Loggers_VIII> *? 17:22 <@Cerebot> ``` 17:22 <@Cerebot> Usage: @? 17:23 <@Cerebot> ``` 17:23 it's the same bit of feedback behind why people hate all you ever wanted in tnnt but love leeroy jenkins. both are hard, but only one is tedious and rng 17:24 you want it to be more difficult? got it. 17:24 you wish is my command 17:24 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Wiz Dro Fem Cha) killed Gollum, on T:3215 (0:20:20) 17:24 *your 17:24 <@Loggers_VIII> yes, exactly. I think we can all agree that going through a majorly difficult combat scenario to get to a reward is better design than doing a repetitive action many times 17:25 <@Loggers_VIII> k2, I want it to be difficult in a way that encourages interesting gameplay. it’s possible for someone to be interested in maintaining difficulty while changing the way it currently exists 17:26 <@Loggers_VIII> if you want to continue putting words in my mouth that’s okay too, though 17:26 you're not helping 17:28 [hdf-us] [evil] Havoc (Con Dra Mal Cha) averted death (killed by an elf zombie), on T:3243 (0:22:39) 17:29 <@Loggers_VIII> it’s impossible for me to have nuanced discussion regarding proposed suggestions if you don’t even acknowledge the basis of the discussion at all. I came out with a suggestion for a rebalance of a level while attempting to do so in a way that maintains difficulty. if you don’t like my idea, you’re free to tell me what you take issue with. All you’ve done is randomly accuse me of wanting to make your game easier or harder (the second one I 17:29 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Wiz Dro Fem Cha) destroyed Yeshua's ghost, the former Esquire, on T:3941 (0:25:30) 17:31 [hdf-us] [evil] Havoc (Con Dra Mal Cha) averted death (killed by a giant bat), on T:3544 (0:25:00) 17:31 you opened up with 'the secret room in the sewer is pretty lame' if that's your idea of starting a constructive discussion, you need to rethink your conversation skills 17:32 <@Loggers_VIII> what, that’s what got you upset? sure, I’ll make an effort to soften my language when I have negative criticism in the future. 17:33 -!- mobileuser has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:35 Loggers: I think it's the way the conversation started, to be honest. I like that mine's end, because it's different to the others. It serves to make the others much less boring and I dont' find it that expecially hard, even, at least once you know the layout. 17:36 <@Loggers_VIII> yes, it’s a good level. a lot more interesting than the others. the only thing I’m not a huge fan of is the teleportation puzzle 17:37 Any form of teleport control makes that fairly trivial, and it's optional, too. 17:37 <@Loggers_VIII> it’s not too bad if you know how to handle the rat king - definitely a lot harder than the others, though 17:37 It's a lot easier than say, Ludios. 17:38 [hdf-us] [evil] Havoc (Con Dra Mal Cha) averted death (killed by an enormous rat), on T:4007 (0:31:47) 17:38 Or rather, a lot easier than *finding* Ludios. 17:38 <@Loggers_VIII> I don’t know if you understand me, I’m not complaining about the difficulty. I don’t care if levels are hard. I just don’t think the teleportation thing is particularly well designed 17:39 <@Loggers_VIII> it being trivial with teleport control is kind of why I dislike it - a puzzle that is extremely tedious without one property and non existent with it is not great design, in my opinion 17:39 There's a lot of those situations in nethack, though. 17:39 <@Loggers_VIII> yeah, doesn’t mean they’re good 17:40 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Wiz Dro Fem Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:5105 (0:35:42) 17:40 <@Loggers_VIII> evilhack has already made some stuff like that better - take partial resistances for example 17:40 <@Loggers_VIII> evilhack’s handling of elemental resistances is much more interesting than vanilla’s because it’s not a binary “very dangerous/non issue” thing 17:41 <@Loggers_VIII> or even stuff like magic resistance/reflection not totally nullifying things 17:43 [hdf-us] [evil] Havoc (Con Dra Mal Cha), 2326 points, T:5026, killed by a giant bat, while running out of chances to revive 17:50 yeah partial properties from spork is one of the neater things about it and evil's refined that pretty well 18:09 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) completed Sokoban, acquiring an amulet of magic resistance, on T:11964 (2:02:06) 18:32 [hdf-us] [evil] Shrigis (Inf Elf Mal Una) became the Emissary of Moloch, on T:15492 (2:25:43) 19:12 EvilHack Commits: Change access to the treasure room in the Mines' End map 'The Sewers … https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/ee060cdf6e486e3921bd187e9c881e15cdb3afcb 19:25 -!- Umbire is now known as Guest5872 19:25 -!- Guest5872 has quit [Killed (osmium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))] 19:25 -!- Umbire has joined #evilhack 19:36 [hdf-us] [evil] Havoc (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:3778 (0:34:10) 19:38 [hdf-us] [evil] Havoc (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3924 (0:35:52) 19:39 [hdf-us] [evil] Havoc (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed Gollum, on T:4029 (0:36:45) 20:03 [hdf-us] [evil] Havoc (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) became literate by reading a book, on T:5290 (1:01:18) 20:13 [hdf-us] [evil] Havoc (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:6351 (1:11:10) 20:23 [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law) had a stone short sword entrusted to him by Quetzalcoatl, on T:1787 (0:15:19) 20:36 [hdf-us] [evil] xialg (Val Hum Fem Law) had a shield of reflection entrusted to her by Tyr, on T:42932 (10:57:45) 20:58 -!- aosdict has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.5.1] 20:58 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59 -!- Umbire has joined #evilhack 21:00 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03 -!- elron has quit [Quit: Client closed] 21:31 -!- krm26 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31 -!- krm26 has joined #evilhack 21:33 [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law) had Snickersnee bestowed upon him by Quetzalcoatl, on T:7086 (1:25:27) 21:38 [hdf-us] [evil] Havoc (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) destroyed LiamTheDruid's ghost, the former Initiate, on T:9932 (1:47:36) 21:39 [hdf-us] [evil] Havoc (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) destroyed splungetoo's ghost, the former Sergeant, on T:9983 (1:48:33) 21:45 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatelo (Mon Hum Mal Neu) had 17 shuriken entrusted to him by Chih Sung-tzu, on T:29506 (6:17:47) 21:49 backscroll: yes. the teleportation part of the rat king level SUCKS.... I have that mines end in my current game. No problem killing rat king (although he's out of depth for what one would normally expect from mines ends) but the rest of the level sucks having to tediously teleport.. I just found a luckstone in the dungeon so i'll only go back much later when i have telport control 21:51 [hdf-us] [evil] xialg (Val Hum Fem Law) had a shield of reflection entrusted to her by Tyr, on T:44106 (12:13:19) 21:51 yeah there is loot if you can teleport with control and have a wand of opening or knock spell, but i don't think i've ever gotten there and not just had to hit that portal randomly forever 21:55 [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:8188 (1:47:19) 22:01 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatelo (Mon Hum Mal Neu) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:30636 (6:26:57) 22:01 ugh 22:01 good night 22:04 [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law), 5575 points, T:8705, poisoned by a bronze orcish arrow 22:23 -!- Grassy has joined #evilhack 22:26 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:47 [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4472 (0:23:21) 22:48 [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law), 1465 points, T:4479, killed by a giant mosquito 23:19 [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law) had a leather cloak entrusted to him by Quetzalcoatl, on T:4133 (0:30:40) 23:39 [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a werejackal, on T:5853 (0:51:19) 23:41 EvilHack Commits: Fix: addition of teleport regions to some of the Mines' End levels. https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/1b9978356717c0efc534a402ab3030cb8dbbc462 23:42 [hdf-us] [evil] ohayoSioh (Val Cen Fem Neu) polymorphed her first object, on T:5109 (1:17:05) 23:56 [hdf-us] [evil] ohayoSioh (Val Cen Fem Neu), 10348 points, T:5658, killed by a torrent of acid