00:01 K2, Werebane is Druid's first gift, right? 00:02 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Kni Dro Fem Cha) destroyed Vecna, on T:82258 (1 day, 0:57:55) 00:02 yes 00:03 coolio, remembered right 00:03 might be worth noting on the Evil page, I'll probably do that some point tonight 00:04 doing the rounds in light of the evilhack updates 00:04 i'll handle druid details on the evilhack page 00:04 save you from having to ask me a million questions :) 00:05 lmao 00:05 you know I'm gonna ask a hundred thousand when the role article occurs anyway :B 00:05 (quips aside I need to trust my code reads more) 00:05 as is, I'm busy with the Arc article mostly, bringing it up to standard with the others 00:05 in doing so I learned how really underwhelming a roole it is 00:06 bringing it more in line with Aztecs/indigenous Americas is one of the smarter things you did in Evil 00:07 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 1990 points, T:1770, killed by a bronze arrow of lightning 00:11 all i did really was change the quest artifact 00:15 gave 'em expert in spears to match 00:15 that one its own went pretty far 00:15 thinking the role in general could use more affinity to darts given those come up fairly frequently in aztec stuff 00:29 -!- Glasshopper has joined #evilhack 00:29 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:3163 (0:21:32) 00:30 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (genetic engineers), on T:3172 (0:21:55) 00:32 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:37 EvilHack Commits: Change how Druid wildshape hitpoints are calculated. https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/4125c2da926bc0632dfeea763a331f587cab12ab 00:37 you all will like that one 00:39 Drambo's bonuses, versus all or just versus demons 00:39 also accounted for the race flag 00:39 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:4281 (0:31:35) 00:40 i think all 00:40 search for ART_DRAMBORLEG in artifact.c it'll tell ya 00:42 yep 00:42 comment confirms 00:42 back to arcs 00:53 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 13665 points, T:6091, suffocated by a creeping mound 00:55 EvilHack Commits: Fix: crash caused by seduce attack. https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/88183c374d19f2a2da039ea331eab4d56b4560ec 00:57 gnite o/ 00:57 night 01:00 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:1979 (0:06:38) 01:01 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu) killed Gollum, on T:2166 (0:07:37) 01:01 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:2235 (0:08:06) 01:04 -!- rebatela has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:04 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 01:12 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu), 5046 points, T:3449, killed by a large spider, while frozen by a monster's gaze 01:16 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu), 348 points, T:1405, killed by Gollum 01:26 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:2650 (0:09:57) 01:27 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu) killed the invisible Gollum, on T:2871 (0:11:47) 01:28 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:2919 (0:12:13) 01:47 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu), 10875 points, T:5313, killed by a vampire 01:52 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu), 473 points, T:1420, killed by a large spider, while fainted from lack of food 02:00 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:2324 (0:07:33) 02:00 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (black dragons), on T:2335 (0:07:59) 02:00 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu) killed Gollum, on T:2353 (0:08:12) 02:01 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:2431 (0:08:41) 02:06 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3425 (0:14:17) 02:12 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu) destroyed the invisible DragonSidedD's ghost, the former Initiate, on T:3993 (0:19:57) 02:14 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu), 7196 points, T:4162, suffocated by a creeping mound 02:31 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 02:34 -!- krm26_ has joined #evilhack 02:37 -!- krm26 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:37 -!- rebatela has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:37 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 04:16 [hdf-us] [evil] Koeranen (Ran Elf Fem Neu) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:667 (0:02:40) 04:32 -!- rebatela has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 04:32 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 05:08 -!- rebatela has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 05:09 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 05:55 -!- rebatela has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 05:56 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 06:03 -!- krm26_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:03 -!- krm26_ has joined #evilhack 06:45 -!- aosdict has joined #evilhack 06:57 k2, gating tal'gath behind the flayer nursery was a really good idea, and i like the gulthias tree placement 06:58 i think having an intentionally placed poly trap right next to the gulthias tree might also be cool -- since the tree keeps generating blights and stuff, every once in a while youd get an arch-lich if you dont deal with the tree 06:59 -!- krm26_ is now known as krm26 07:01 I think there are probably better ways to incentivize dealing with the tree than making polytrap arch-liches an explicit intended mechanic 07:02 the only other one that comes to mind is adjacency to the nursery door 07:02 F*CK, giant centipedes cant cast 07:03 shoulda been a pegasus 07:03 im burning more turns waiting on wildshape than i ever did altar camping :-) 07:08 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Dru Hob Fem Neu) killed Cerberus, on T:68132 (1 day, 7:09:41) 07:09 [hdf-us] [evil] Koeranen (Ran Elf Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:7395 (0:51:45) 07:09 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Dru Hob Fem Neu) entered Gehennom, on T:68158 (1 day, 7:10:25) 07:15 [hdf-us] [evil] Koeranen (Ran Elf Fem Neu) killed Gollum, on T:7838 (0:58:01) 07:19 [hdf-us] [evil] Koeranen (Ran Elf Fem Neu), 8768 points, T:8231, poisoned by an orcish arrow 07:31 krm26 \o/ 07:52 i really wanna use different forms but a form that cant cast is gonna be a hard no 07:53 i understand the concept behind restrictions on certain forms but i think the end result is going to be there are only two or three forms that ever get used, which is disappointing 07:54 pseudodragon, cave bear, dire wolverine, pegasus -- let you unihorn and tin and cast and whatnot in addition to form benefits 07:54 maybe 07:54 brb 07:56 the "slip and nearly fall" on ice message for centipedes is weird. i wonder, is it the same for snake forms? that message should probably pay attention to body form 08:01 maybe bracers of the first circle could allow casting when melded, or at least casting of some spell schools 08:08 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Rog Dra Fem Cha) averted death (killed by the Oracle), on T:17344 (4:22:54) 08:09 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Rog Dra Fem Cha) averted death (killed by the Oracle), on T:17347 (4:23:11) 08:09 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Rog Dra Fem Cha), 22541 points, T:17349, killed by the Oracle, while running out of chances to revive 08:09 ok lesson learned :-P 08:09 gamble failed 08:10 im trying to avoid learning a lesson which is making this run very slow 08:10 i think kathryn is gonna gank me 08:15 she's optional you know 08:16 is it possible to convert the valley altar? 08:16 <@Loggers_VIII> no 08:16 dammit 08:26 sigh, dont think i can kill talgath either, gonna take me 35 rounds and he two-shots me 08:27 surprised how frequently he hits me with my -48 stoneskin 08:29 alas if i handed thrown away 15 potions on bad alchemy i might have enough hp to actually take one of my roadblocks 08:30 so k2, i'm gonna be spending 50k turns altar camping now :-) 08:33 <@Loggers_VIII> the magic missile damage is pretty negligible if you have MR 08:33 <@Loggers_VIII> are you cornering him or something? 08:37 -!- rebatela has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:37 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 08:39 i have to melee him 08:40 otherwise my damage is less than his healing 08:40 so i have to soak his bite 08:41 did you guys see this? https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/4125c2da926bc0632dfeea763a331f587cab12ab 08:42 <@Loggers_VIII> I kill him in melee all the time without cornering, you’re faster than him so just make sure he has a spot to run to 08:42 nope, im not faster than him, because im walking 08:42 <@Loggers_VIII> he’ll only bite if he doesn’t have anywhere to move 08:43 <@Loggers_VIII> damn lol even my tortles can catch up with that guy usually 08:43 <@Loggers_VIII> @e?tal’gath 08:43 tal’gath ~1~ Tal'Gath (e) | Lvl: 46 | Diff: 50 | Spd: 12 | Res: cold disintegrate shock poison petrification magic | Confer: disintegrate poison | MR: 70 | Gen: unique | AC: -10 | Atk: 0d0 gaze slow, 8d8 gaze disintegrate, 0d0 gaze petrification, 6d6 gaze cancellation, 16d4 cast magic missile, 10d10 bite physical | Align: -18 | flies, breathless, seeinvis, nopoly, stalker, infravis 08:43 tortles dont get slowed by sludge 08:43 <@Loggers_VIII> no lev/flying? 08:43 boots of lev, which would mean i dont have speed 08:43 omg poly into a pegasus 08:43 fly, fast 08:43 <@Loggers_VIII> if you have intrinsic speed it’s good enough to keep up with him 08:44 <@Loggers_VIII> guy who has never heard of the million turn wildshape timeout: 08:44 cant, still burning off another thousand turns or so from my centipede debacle 08:44 also, no intrinsic speed 08:45 <@Loggers_VIII> also k2 I didn’t see that commit but I did notice it when I was playing last night, it’s nice 08:45 i was gonna say earlier (but i had to go) - there's 26 different wildshape forms a druid can pick from. every player is different, and will find utility in each. yes, players will tend to gravitate towards the stronger forms (just like they do with artifacts and armor) but the options exist 08:45 some forms are selected to assist with particular scenarios 08:46 @Loggers_VIII yay 08:46 i understand and support your intent, but im not convinced you have achieved that, especially with the two final tiers of forms 08:46 i'll keep experimenting as much as the timeout lets me 08:46 i take into account your pessimism 08:46 although the timeout does discourage experimentation 08:47 you'll figure out the forms as you go along 08:47 the timeout is there for a very good reason 08:48 i dont disagree in principle with anything you are saying, im just not sure you are achieving what you want to achieve in practice 08:48 oh i think i am :) 08:48 i cant cater to every single player 08:49 a lot of yours (meaning you all here) feedback has been taken into account and even acted upon 08:50 but some things you're just gonna have to accept, and trust that I sort of know what the hell i'm doing 08:50 :P 08:50 not trying to give you a hard time 08:50 i know 08:50 hugs 08:50 i think if you could collect stats on the number of times each form is utilized 08:50 it might inform further thought in another 6 months 08:51 i know you'd love to be able to wildshape into a celestial dragon or a vorpal J. but that's not what druids can turn into 08:52 duuude that is entirely unlike what im saying 08:52 i know, just putting that out there 08:52 it came up in my brain 08:52 ok so... lets say lizard never gets used 08:52 or rothe 08:52 if we're gonna talk lets talk about the final two tiers 08:53 ok 08:53 shoot 08:53 when you kind of have a kit together, some spells you rely on, and tougher opponents 08:53 <@Loggers_VIII> centipede cast spells pls 08:54 forgoing your toolkit (utility spells, healing, combat spells, pickaxe, whatever) for a hundred turns or so is often no big deal 08:54 but you'll probably almost never have the luxury of doing that for a long time 08:54 <@Loggers_VIII> everyone forgoes pickaxe I think 08:54 so selecting a form like centipede is often going to mean sacrificing use of a form for a few thousand turns -- you'll use centipede for a brief time and have to shift out 08:54 [hdf-us] [evil] Snuff (Rog Dro Fem Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:5767 (1:52:45) 08:55 i think that will mean that all druids turn into a pegasus semi-permantently 08:56 you realize i already adjusted what sounds a bunch of forms can make right? dropped it from 9 that couldnt cast down to 3 08:56 that is excellent 08:56 not budging on those last 3, it doesnt make sense otherwise 08:56 is is true my experience is limited, due to the timer -- giant anconda, giant centipede, pegasus 08:57 FYI you dont need a pick axe. poly into a woochuck or a honey badger. they can dig 08:57 saber-toothed tiger and cave bear both seem like very good third-tier forms 08:57 again, timer 08:57 <@Loggers_VIII> here’s what I think - most forms offer benefits or conveniences of using them that are very short-term. like, turn into a snake to go through iron bars. turn into a unicorn to cure illness. turn into a woodchuck to dig something or swim. turn into a giant anaconda to swallow a nasty monster etc etc. however, because they’re not really useful for much else outside of niche specific use-cases, players won’t use these because of the long timeout 08:58 that's up to each player to decide and figure out 08:58 [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Wiz Dro Fem Cha) killed Gollum, on T:6609 (1:11:25) 08:58 [hdf-us] [evil] Snuff (Rog Dro Fem Cha) killed Gollum, on T:6160 (1:56:14) 08:58 i forget, can ents walk through trees? 08:58 and this is why i mentioned the dragon and purple J earlier krm26 08:59 <@Loggers_VIII> as krm26 says, I’m not going to shift into a woodchuck to dig something because then I have to wait 4000 turns to turn into something actually broadly helpful 08:59 through? no. druids can walk diagnolly through gaps in trees regardless of size 08:59 2200 - 2800 turns if you havent abused alignment 08:59 oh i thought that was a thing for the quest levels, didnt realize it was everywhere, cool 08:59 yeah everywhere 09:00 <@Loggers_VIII> not abusing alignment is kinda a crapshoot ngl stuff can just happen sometimes 09:00 sure 09:00 <@Loggers_VIII> that’s another topic :p 09:00 wait druids do work by wildshaping and then have to wait a really long time before they can turn back? 09:00 well i think my druid game is gonna be my longest ever unless i die 09:00 or turn into anything else 09:00 you'd have to really fuck up your alignment to get into the 4000+ turn range 09:00 aosdict no 09:01 a druid can exit wildshape any time they want 09:01 but once they initialize it, there's a timer before they can use it again 09:01 [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Wiz Dro Fem Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:6943 (1:14:52) 09:01 <@Loggers_VIII> this might be different from the intention, and that’s fine - but my ideal Druid is a character that shifts often into different forms to solve separate problems by creative use of various forms’ abilities. right now, druid for most people is going to be “become ancient pseudodragon until you can become cave bear until you can become pegasus” 09:02 yeah if it's 4000 turns that seems far too long, I agree that the "situationally useful" forms will never get used then 09:02 no situation lasts that long 09:02 aosdict its not a set amount of turns 09:02 <@Loggers_VIII> as k2 said it’s lessened if you don’t abuse alignment 09:02 aosdict, that's just the timer for actually turning into a wildshape, not the duration for the form in general 09:02 its variable and if you havent abused alignment you could basically stay in wildshape as much as you like 09:03 yeah, it makes pegasus endgame druid pretty compelling 09:03 this commit is huge for druids btw - https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/4125c2da926bc0632dfeea763a331f587cab12ab 09:03 imo being able to pop back to normal at will does actually give a nice incentive to not lean on polyforms forever and properly develop their long-term fighting ability 09:03 YUGE 09:03 something you gotta mix in with it 09:05 I feel like if I were gonna implement wildshape from scratch, I would make there be some "exhaustion" associated with it, it's some fixed amount of exhausting to change into anything, and then spending lots of time polymorphed is also exhausting 09:05 <@Loggers_VIII> I don’t agree that that’s even particularly interesting umbire, I’m not “leaning on polyforms”, I’m using the main ability that differentiates the role. if that isn’t usable as a long-term ability, then that’s a problem because it’s yet another homogenous late game role 09:05 so if you need to pop into giant centipede for a moment to wriggle through some iron bars, and don't stay a centipede forever, that's fine 09:06 I'm not saying it's unusuable as one either, just that you don't even HAVE to be a forever-pegasus in the late game and that has my interest 09:06 euuurgh acid blast almost one-shots me :-P 09:06 but if you stay polymorphed into a bear for a long time for its combat advantages, eventually you're going to unpolymorph and be stuck in your normal form for a while as you "recharge" 09:06 but I'll probably reserve deeper thoughts for first-hand experience 09:06 aosdict that's interesting 09:07 i tried to stick with how wildshape is handled in ad&d as closely as I could. some changes of course had to be made 09:07 i still like the idea of each form being a skill, and as you spend time in the form, the skill gets easier (maybe reflected in the cooldown the form inflicts being lowered) 09:07 aos's suggestion is also p. interesting even if I don't particularly feel it wrt late-game stuff given what loggers mentioned 09:08 all - do you have any suggestions for other forms that would be acceptable for a druid to wildshape into? 09:08 on which note I should clean myself and this place up 09:08 as said I wanna feel it out for myself first 09:08 -!- rebatela has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:08 couldnt implement until next version, but i'd welcome ideas 09:08 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 09:10 bbl 09:10 -!- Umbire has quit [Quit: Umbire zaps a wand of digging!] 09:11 i think there are a few forms that seem like pure obligate downgrades from other forms at that level? stag >> rothe, elder pseudodragon >> large hawk, etc 09:11 which could be removed to make room for something else 09:11 potentially 09:12 i kinda think locust would be a cool 3rd tier bug form 09:12 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack 09:12 oh yeah 09:12 i forgot about locust 09:12 2nd on locust, that is a genius idea 09:12 prob because they are assholes 09:12 and i really like the ent concept but feel like they need a little nudge somewhere to be viable forms 09:13 remember that ents are not ALWAYS slow 09:13 woolly mammoth 09:14 -!- krm26_ has joined #evilhack 09:14 K2: I don't think ad&d is the best inspiration here - it's pretty much like vancian magic, and imagine if nethack used vancian magic (or the current wildshape timer implementation as an approximation) for spells 09:15 i pushed too hard and the server kicked me :-) 09:15 here is my idea that's actually krm26's idea from the other day: remove timeout, make death in wildshape actual death 09:15 Loggers_VIII heh woolly mammoth would be a tier 5 09:15 or 6 09:15 celestial vorpal mammoth 09:16 what about like piranha lol 09:16 what about a pudding form? 09:16 puddings are not woodland creatures I don't think 09:16 i mean, slime molds are 09:16 aosdict i think gnollhack shifted to a vancian magic model 09:17 spell components, the whole bit 09:17 they did. the only person i've heard talk about it was fubaz who said it was a massive pain 09:17 ell or shark should prob be a form too now that i think about it 09:17 *eel 09:18 for when that underwater adventure becomes a reality 09:18 -!- krm26 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:18 ohoho what about giant turtle 09:18 also add coyote please 09:18 I just like coyotes and want to be one 09:18 i didnt pick that one because you all already complain about tortles being slow 09:18 giant turtle is *really* slow 09:19 @e?giant turtle 09:19 giant turtle (:) | Lvl: 7 | Diff: 8 | Spd: 2 | Res: petrification | Confer: nothing | MR: 10 | Gen: dungeons | AC: -8 | Atk: 4d6 bite physical | Align: 0 | genocidable, herbivore, swims, amphibious, thick hide 09:19 AC -8 is kinda silly though 09:19 silly as in yes please give me that 09:20 but yeah i cant add any new forms this version, because doing so would break saves 09:20 didya consider for example gargantuan spider 09:20 you can adjust things in monst.c but if you add or take away, boom break 09:21 actually, jumping spider would be an interesting form for a quick getaway 09:21 one vote for jumping spider from me 09:21 i considered more insect/spider forms, but at that time i felt like i was adding too many 09:22 gotcha 09:22 I learned the other day that giant cockroach can cling to ceilings, kinda interesting 09:22 but now that you can retain your max hit points in lesser/weaker forms, that kinda opens that back up 09:22 also, part of me hates that i'm saying this, but ancient pseudodragon is too good for a 2nd tier form 09:23 super fast, flight, sleep and poison attacks? that's tier 3 09:23 there's literally no choice whatsoever for me when I reach level 6 about what i'm going to turn into 09:24 heh 09:25 ah hell 09:25 you know what i shoulda done 09:25 with the hp adjustment, ancient pseudodragon might indeed be too good 09:25 druid quest, you have to wldshape into certain forms to progress 09:25 in fact, if the druid quest levels removed any wildshape cooldown, you could experiment there to your hearts conent 09:25 content 09:26 okay honestly you know what? have the quest artifact remove or greatly reduce cooldown 09:26 you might not consider it op if only on quest levels 09:26 that mirrors wizard progression where you get limited use of your special stuff before the quest and then the artifact lets you play around to your heart's content 09:27 i'll think on it 09:28 another possible wrinkle: unlike other spells, evocation spells do not require speech 09:28 obv, cuz druids wanna cast 09:28 in all their weird bodies 09:28 so you could still entangle and stoneskin in speechless forms 09:29 or i suppose when swallowed by a gelcube 09:30 i just really want to constantly use wildshape, because IT'S COOL AND FUN 09:30 and it's not like turning into a woodchuck to dig to a vault and then turning into a cave bear when you're done is game breaking or anything 09:31 heh 09:32 i'm more apt to have timer cooldown be affected by wearing the druid quest artifact 09:32 that sounds interesting 09:33 and easier than revamping how wildshape works completely per aosdict's suggestion 09:33 lemme think on all this 09:33 i suggested that yesterday :-) 09:33 plus i need to actually play (not testing, but actually play a druid) 09:33 yes come join me 09:33 i am beating me head against 4 walls right now 09:33 krm26_ i've slept since then, i'm sorry i forgot 09:34 -!- krm26_ is now known as krm26 09:34 kas, kathryn, tal'gath, and the timer are all breaking my balls 09:34 if you have the same idea as loggers it's either really good or really bad 09:35 you were here when i suggested that too loggers! im being erased! 09:35 gonna wait for my celestial vorpal mammoth before doing kas i think 09:35 oh that makes sense as to why it's a good idea then, I must have subconsciously absorbed it and regurgitated it :P 09:36 hey... where did krm26 go? 09:36 um... who is.. what's his name again? 09:36 who are we talking about? 09:36 :P 09:37 they all serve who only sit and whine 09:37 who? 09:37 lol 09:37 do you hear something? 09:37 must've been the wind... 09:38 i really need to get druid data up on the wiki 09:38 i did some prelim stuff last night 09:38 acid blast, man, never be able to cast that 09:38 isnt that umbires job? have you lit the umbire signal? 09:38 I got that on level 1 with my druid that tragically got gulthias'd 09:38 huh I guess umbire left he was here a minute ago 09:38 krm26 that just gave me an idea 09:39 hold your ankles everyone! hes got an idea! 09:39 no i told umbire i'd handle druid info on the evilhack wiki page 09:39 he's not going to know all the ins and outs 09:39 best if i do it 09:39 otherwise he'd spend hours asking me questions and waiting for me to reply 09:40 wow krm26 09:40 hodl your ankles 09:40 HODL 09:41 i feel like you are hodling the door from the stinky got tv series :-) 09:42 should add a vulture monster that's a bird with sickness res and have it be like tier 2 wildshape form 09:42 that would let you take advantage of draugr eating mechanics for a monster 09:43 and then make it gain nutrition from sick corpses like draugr 09:43 yeah 09:43 could have a carrion beetle too 09:43 or giant beetles could be de facto carrion beetles 09:43 also have it be turkey vulture in specific because I like turkey vultures 09:43 that also sounds like the kinda thing a dire wolverine might be into :-) 09:45 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu) killed the invisible Gollum, on T:1180 (0:04:19) 09:45 Loggers_VIII: I would counter your idea for the druid QA with making it easier to wildshape more often as you gain XL 09:45 which tracks with d&d giving you more wildshape "slots" as you level up 09:45 my new idea for wildshape that I enjoy more is the first tier of wildshapes not having a cool down whereas the other tiers have cool downs that increase with tier 09:46 but actually I might enjoy the QA thing more. I dunno. the QA thing seems easier and I do really enjoy the wizard parallel 09:46 actually scrap that new idea the 09:46 -the 09:47 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu), 727 points, T:1257, killed by a goblin shaman 09:47 aosdict: your idea is probably the best 09:48 that was what I thought of initially but I just tied it to the quest artifact because I think it would be neat if two totally different primary spellcasting roles had a somewhat similar curve 09:48 re: new monsters for new wildshape niches, I'm not hot on the idea of "add lots of new monsters that mainly serve the interests of one new role" but that ship has sailed :) 09:48 rather than turkey vulture, you could repurpose e.g. raven 09:49 turkey vulture is cool though 09:49 yeah aosdict that's a good idea 09:49 I just want to be a vulture the mechanics came as the second idea :P 09:49 more incentivization (sp) to level up 09:49 i'll all about making it so players want to level up max 09:52 this is an unrelated yani but I think the second spellbook druid gets should always be evocation ranging from barkskin all the way to create trees 09:53 I want to play with the new spells because they're so thematic and druidy but I never really find them 09:53 -!- terrapin has joined #evilhack 09:54 the logic behind spellbooks up to level 5 being allowed is that druids start with basic in evocation and obviously it's their specialty so they can start with higher level evocation books than other schools 09:55 EvilHack Commits: Druids can receive the spellbook 'finger of death' as a crowning gift. https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/9e6bd3a7ae2ac72920290f1e9993d8825a5cbb84 09:59 not to mention, considering create grass is quite literally useless to other roles and create trees might as well be, it feels dumb that druids have an equal chance of finding them than other guys 09:59 s/than/as 10:00 -!- rebatela has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:00 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 10:01 the larger issue is of course the extreme randomness of spellbook generation that is only really good for wizard and often deprives other roles of finding and utilizing spells that they arguably are designed with in mind - but I don't know how to solve that :P 10:01 that commit was my idea that krm26 gave me when he mentioned acid blast 10:01 oh I was yapping so much I didn't even see, that's cool 10:02 I dunno whether i'd want that over vorpal blade or not. something to consider 10:02 if the 2nd spellbook for a starting druid is always an evocation type spell, they'd have zero chance of starting with something like healing 10:02 (for me to consider, it's a fine change) 10:03 they'd also have zero chance of starting with 15 other terrible spells they won't use 10:03 hmm 10:03 another 'lemme think on it' 10:03 yippee 10:11 you can always start-scum! 10:11 so if i want to keep my options open, with vorpal no longer guaranteed crowning gift, i need to remember to wield a long sword before crowning 10:12 yup 10:12 just like if you were playing a wiz 10:12 me personally, i'd rather have the spell 10:12 well, one nice thing about getting vorpal blade, is @no @body @else is showing up with it later 10:12 tru 10:13 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Dru Trt Mal Neu), 573 points, T:1414, killed by the Goblin King 10:13 or if you want the sword, find the spell first 10:13 just find the spellbook? you gotta learn the spell too, right? 10:13 I've tried start scumming, but evocation spells show up way less than the others 10:14 k2 -- make pet horses/pegasi passively gain nutrition on grass 10:14 then knights would like the spell, and maybe others 10:14 in many many many many many many scummed and played games, I have seen one (1) starting create grass spell 10:14 pegasi are hard to keep fed 10:14 oh hey 10:14 that's a neat idea 10:15 only 94.5% of my ideas are utter cockbobbles! 10:15 ok, i should go get crowned before i forget 10:15 -- is that change live if i save and resume k2? 10:15 just find the spellbook? you gotta learn the spell too, right? <--- no just have the book in open inventory 10:16 ah ok 10:16 my second starting create grass, right now!! how wonderful 10:16 krm26 no that change isnt live yet 10:16 this whole fuckin dungeon is gonna be grass 10:16 -!- rebatela has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16 part of the evilhack green initiative 10:16 druids receive finger of death? what are they, wizards? 10:16 remind me - the bonuses for grass are +2 damage from wood weapons, extra HP regen and longer entangle duration? 10:16 finger of death is actually a druid spell 10:16 that's how it started out 10:17 see ad&d 1st edition 10:17 EPI: when you create grass, it dies off after a not that long period of time 10:17 because no sun 10:17 you mean, only if in magical darkness 10:17 :-) 10:17 it's cave grass 10:17 ah so it's really a weird fungus that only LOOKS like grass, got it 10:17 YANI: new druid spell, create marijuana 10:18 lol that's actually the explanation for grass in brogue 10:18 the keystone drug enforcement kops will come for you 10:18 "grass-like fungus crunches underfoot" 10:19 circle of spores druid when 10:19 I await the PR aosdict 10:20 k2 grass should not just be undetectable when you don't directly see it 10:20 its a terrain feature and behaves as such 10:20 I can still see a throne when I walk out of the room 10:20 and maybe krm26 ate some when you werent looking 10:20 throne isnt terrain 10:21