00:08 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Con Dwa Mal Cha) had Sting bestowed upon him by Tymora, on T:62370 (12:57:33) 00:09 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had a pair of gauntlets of dexterity entrusted to him by Huan Ti, on T:4725 (0:26:38) 00:14 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:5385 (0:31:59) 00:30 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 10869 points, T:6832, killed by a magic missile 00:43 -!- hackemslashem has joined #evilhack 01:18 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Con Dwa Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed +2 ogresmasher", on T:63626 (14:08:10) 01:20 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Con Dwa Mal Cha) used a forge to create Ashmar, on T:63659 (14:10:09) 01:40 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Sam Gia Mal Law), 30131 points, T:13093, killed by an invisible Woodland-elf 01:40 -!- dbanethacker has joined #evilhack 01:47 -!- tinklebear has left #evilhack 02:18 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 02:30 woohoo congrats bouquet! 02:36 interesting that goggles are seriously used already 02:38 -!- elenmirie__ has joined #evilhack 02:40 -!- dbanethacker has quit [Quit: Client closed] 02:41 -!- bugsniper_ has joined #evilhack 03:10 so i got impatient and didn't want to lure all the several dozen wraiths from the lower levels of the priest quest 03:11 but i didn't want to slaughter them all, so i #turned them to pacify them 03:11 but, i couldn't do so in sight of zombies, because they're undetectable when peaceful, so i bump into them and piss everyone off all over again 03:12 it was a very fun minigame trying to get that done with minimal wraith deaths; i highly recommend trying it some time 03:12 and it will make some future dragon pet very happy 04:05 -!- Imanity has joined #evilhack 05:12 -!- elenmirie__ has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 05:56 -!- k3ut0i has joined #evilhack 06:20 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 06:33 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 06:43 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 06:52 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 07:05 -!- arahael has joined #evilhack 07:16 -!- krm26 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:17 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) eschewed atheism, by dropping a silver spear on an altar, on T:7637 (7:14:47) 07:17 -!- Imanity has quit [Quit: Client closed] 07:33 -!- krm26 has joined #evilhack 07:57 -!- bugsniper_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:59 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a wraith corpse, on T:8902 (7:56:35) 08:06 -!- hackemslashem has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:07 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 08:12 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 26562 points, T:10210, killed by a soldier ant 08:16 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 08:19 -!- Umbire has quit [Quit: Umbire zaps a wand of digging!] 08:20 -!- elenmirie__ has joined #evilhack 08:57 -!- arahael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:10 -!- dbanethacker has joined #evilhack 09:17 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Ran Hum Fem Neu) had a steel javelin entrusted to her by Venus, on T:7723 (2:18:34) 09:20 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Ran Hum Fem Neu) destroyed spenceshady's ghost, the former Initiate, on T:7927 (2:21:00) 09:29 -!- hackemslashem has joined #evilhack 09:35 -!- elenmirie__ has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 09:42 -!- dbanethacker has quit [Quit: Client closed] 09:51 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:2073 (0:09:30) 10:04 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Ran Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Gollum, on T:10344 (3:04:45) 10:30 -!- Imanity has joined #evilhack 10:38 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) stole 1275 zorkmids worth of merchandise from Dark Eery's hardware store, on T:7884 (0:56:42) 10:41 -!- Imanity has quit [Quit: Client closed] 10:59 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Sam Hum Mal Law) averted death (killed by Graz'zt), on T:74692 (2 days, 4:42:27) 10:59 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Sam Hum Mal Law) killed Graz'zt, on T:74693 (2 days, 4:42:30) 11:03 -!- imanity has joined #evilhack 11:08 [hdf-us] [evil] Grouchy (Sam Hum Mal Law) genocided two random monsters from class L, on T:74851 (2 days, 4:51:29) 11:09 3 more demi/arch liches left. Until Vecna time :D 11:18 good luck. we're all counting on you 11:18 any cursed gain level yet? 11:19 No 11:19 But can use cursed scroll of teleportation 11:19 ah, didn't know that worked at vecna 11:19 although I'd prefer to save them, this will do 11:20 Demilich inside Vecna's tower just summoned master lich+kirin tho 11:20 Didnt think they could do that any more 11:20 Just got a potion of gain level as a death drop xD 11:20 Maybe it's cursed 11:22 fingers crossed! 11:23 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Sam Hum Mal Law), 1431 points, T:2672, killed by a giant mimic 11:28 -!- hasselhoff has joined #evilhack 11:33 So paranoid I'll accidentally put /oC in bag, I drop it in lava xD 11:37 I have a sack dedicated for those. 11:37 but the possibility of pressing 'A' still freaks me out 11:37 I don't take any chances. If I misclick, or think I opened my sack when it was actually my bag 11:38 Would legit be game ruining 11:38 wand of cancellation isnt much use against endgame threats anyway 11:40 if you're a melee class and going genoless then it helps neutralize black/gray dragon passives 11:41 Oh it affects their passives? 11:41 but, ya, I don't use it much end game. Only if I'm too lazy to repeatedly blanks scrolls and potions 11:41 ya, I'm pretty sure. Also stops their breath weapon. 11:41 Yeah, can hurt quite a bit 11:44 ha! He chickened out 11:44 Ikr 11:44 Was playing it so safe 11:44 Thought he'd fire blast me and destroy my only escape to Kas' level 11:44 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack 11:45 easy peasy now. Just MM him in the face. 11:45 Once I deal with this titan 11:45 Can't wait to be surrounded by monsters 11:49 [hdf-eu] [evil] Imanity (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) destroyed Vecna, on T:64944 (1 day, 12:59:29) 11:49 The eye 11:49 boo 11:52 I have all of its effects already. Literally useless 11:52 ya, I always get the eye, too. 11:52 Think the eye needs to be reworked 11:52 one time I got the hand it was useless to me. 11:53 But surely you were able to swap some things around 11:53 the eye does not need to be reworked, lol 11:53 It gives cold resistance 11:53 why 11:53 it's amazing for lots of builds, just cause you got one where you have the things already doesn't mean it's bad 11:53 though half spell damage is massive in the late game 11:53 also, how do you have astral vision? 11:53 Every single game I get the eye, it's useless 11:54 I have telepathy from EotA 11:54 respectfully, you are incorrect 11:54 astral vision is a downgrade in that sense 11:54 Umber hulks 11:54 uh... no it is not? 11:54 the small chance you get umber hulk'd through a wall does not make astral vision bad 11:54 But I can see all mobs anyway 11:54 through EotA telepathy 11:55 how is astral vision of any use? 11:55 1) you can't see mindless mobs 11:55 2) it helps mapping 11:55 it's also a light source, which telepathy is not and which has its own benefits 11:55 pseudo-light, that can't go it 11:55 *out 11:55 Warning takes care of the mindless mobs, and I use a blessed lamp anyway 11:55 I think the lamp even has higher range 11:56 it doesn't 11:56 Oh 11:56 is it a magic lamp? 11:56 yes 11:56 congrats now you can use the wish 11:56 Guess I should use for wish 11:56 yeah 11:59 I now have a pet genie 11:59 xD 11:59 \o/ 12:02 -!- imanity80 has joined #evilhack 12:05 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 35393 points, T:12145, killed by a leocrotta 12:06 -!- imanity has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:06 Now have to use a wish on stone GoP sigh 12:06 -!- imanity80 is now known as Imanity 12:08 you don't have to 12:09 I could use Sword of Kas 12:09 ew, as wiz? why 12:09 Cause I need giant strength 12:09 giant strength is very, very far from essential 12:09 and sword of kas is just horrible for a wizard 12:09 you might get the hand 12:09 I didnt 12:09 they got the eye lol 12:09 Eye gang xd 12:09 oh missed that you got vecna 12:10 25 strength adds 6 damage and 3 to hit to all weapons 12:10 Including projectiles 12:10 why not use purity if you want giant strength 12:10 who cares? you are a wizard 12:10 not to mention the 50% increased carrying capacity 12:10 Sometimes run out of pw 12:10 oh are you ith? 12:10 yeah 12:10 I had to use rings of levitation when transporting loot 12:10 yeah then you should've wished for GoP like 20k turns ago :P 12:10 to not get overburdened xD 12:10 I was banking on getting the hand 12:11 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed] 12:11 This just sucks 12:11 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack 12:11 never bank on getting anything, the game will always give you the other one 12:11 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 12:11 True xD 12:13 I lose MC 3 as well 12:13 Well I'd have lost that anyway 12:14 even if hand dropped 12:15 Maybe if player monster comes and gives me dragonbane :3 12:15 -!- hasselhoff has quit [Quit: Client closed] 12:15 I will be happy 12:21 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had 14 shuriken entrusted to him by Huan Ti, on T:955 (0:04:52) 12:22 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed Gollum, on T:1073 (0:06:11) 12:25 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:1368 (0:08:33) 12:45 why stone and not bone GoP? 12:46 only 1AC less and massively lighter 12:46 and naturally unfixed materials are actually superior endgame -- one additional step of deterioration before destruction 12:48 krm26 iirc, the mobs which cast destroy armor remove erodeproof first 12:48 So my bone gauntlets will be vulnerable to fire upon the first cast 12:49 bouquet it's only 50 points lighter. I'm already missing 9 AC from priest protection, and a bunch more from prayer protection. Need all the AC I can get 12:49 fairnuff 12:49 and I can't eat rings of protection, even if they were edible. Polyselfless 12:50 just put enough ketchup on them and you could eat them 12:50 xD 12:50 the way it works Imanity is deterioration immediately effects naturally fixed materials like stone, but removes fixing on materials that are naturally unfixed 12:51 meaning unfixed materials absorb one more deterioration step before being destroyed 12:51 Heinz Enchanted Bottle of Catsup: single use potion that makes anything edible. 12:51 It's the removal of fixing I'm concerned about. Already really short on scrolls 12:51 fireproof cloak -> cloak, same AC; dragonhide cloak -> deteriorated dragonhide cloak, -1 AC 12:52 that's fine. I'm unlikely to have my cloak destroyed in a single fight 12:52 Can repair it after 12:52 i think you aren't getting it 12:52 'you dip the +5 ring of increase damage in potion. Your stomach rumbles with hunger!' 12:53 bouquet, do you get my point? or am i just being incomprehensible? 12:53 sorry, what? I'm riffing on new items. 12:53 In the monster spell description of destroy armor "Any piece of armor being worn can have its fixed status removed, and then can be deteriorated to the point that it's completely destroyed" 12:53 was trying to explain why unfixed materials are slightly advantageous in the endgame compared to fixed materials, because you get one additional step of deterioration absorption 12:53 Imanity, is that one turn or two? 12:54 But then you have to spend a scroll refixing it, right krm26? 12:54 if it's two then unfixed baseline is better as it gives an extra turn to be destroyed as I understand it. 12:54 or cast "repair armor" 12:54 sure, or the same scroll or spell repairing, no difference there 12:54 I used that quite a bit with my rogue 12:54 Does the spell make an item fixed? 12:55 enhancement points well spent, IMO 12:55 no, but it'll repair it from the brink 12:55 and it's only a lvl 3 spell(?) 12:55 But then my bone will be vulnerable to fire again 12:55 so minimal power waste 12:55 avoid fire? 12:55 Tell that to the lich 12:56 Or my fireball spell 12:56 WIll destroy non-erodeproof bone in one cast 12:56 gather more enchant armor scrolls. 12:56 I can't 12:56 I can't poly them to get more 12:56 Only 1 magic marker and had to wish for that 12:57 then just burn turns going up and downn the dungeon. 12:57 That's not really feasible 12:57 this is the burden of a polyless game 12:57 I'm not concerned about my stone GoP being destroyed in a single fight 12:58 whatever works. We're just offering alternative options. They might not be the best. 12:58 Ye, just explaining why I chose this one 12:59 I'll check in wiz mode to see how many stages of deterioration stone gets 12:59 I think it's 3 13:00 everything gets the same 13:01 except that unfixed materials have the extra step of removing fixed status 13:01 It's the removal of unfixed status which is my main problem 13:01 4 over 3 casts is great 13:01 there is no removal of unfixed status 13:02 "Any piece of armor being worn can have its fixed status removed, and then can be deteriorated to the point that it's completely destroyed" 13:02 But the wiki page says this 13:02 the wiki was originally written for vanilla nethack which doesnt have object materials 13:03 This is the evilhack wiki 13:03 well its page 13:03 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/EvilHack 13:03 well, this is how it works -- 13:04 fixed material: deteriorated, very deteriorated, thoroughly deteriorated, gone 13:04 unfixed material that has been fixed: unfixed, deteriorated, very, thoroughly, gone 13:05 there is a wrinkled, which is that currently you can wish for fixed dragonhide, etc. which will have an invisible "fixed" status that will get removed by the first deterioration 13:05 It's the unfixing part I have a concern with 13:05 Unfixing bone makes it vulernable to fire 13:05 that invisible fixed status is i think going to end up being considered a bug and addressed 13:05 it is mainly an issue with stacking items 13:05 Yeah 13:06 *vulnerable 13:14 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 13:17 -!- hasselhoff has joined #evilhack 13:24 ha. almost got myself stuck on the bottom quest level. Left my pitchfork upstairs to save weight, then read earth scroll over stairs to keep nemesis from escaping upstairs. But forgot to think about how I would escape back upstairs later! 13:25 Leg day almost became kicking boulders until your shin breaks xD 13:25 lol 13:26 fortunately pushing boulders diagonally is a thing outside of sokoban! 13:33 -!- hasselhoff has quit [Quit: Client closed] 13:34 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 13:35 I need more scrolls :( 13:36 Might have to spend a wish on magic marker 13:47 -!- Imanity has quit [Quit: Client closed] 13:47 -!- imanity has joined #evilhack 13:58 i'm picturing someone trying to break apart a boulder with a pitchfork now :-) 14:01 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 14:05 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 14:07 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Sam Gia Mal Law) killed Gollum, on T:653 (0:05:10) 14:08 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Ran Hum Fem Neu) became literate by reading a book, on T:19497 (7:08:43) 14:08 -!- qt has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:08 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Sam Gia Mal Law), 482 points, T:690, killed by a giant bat 14:18 -!- k3ut0i has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:23 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Sam Gia Mal Law), 654 points, T:1870, killed by a hobgoblin, while fainted from lack of food 14:25 -!- qt has joined #evilhack 14:25 How much damage does a silver elven dagger do> 14:25 *? 14:26 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Sam Gia Mal Law), 251 points, T:104, killed by a djinni 14:28 same as an elven dagger but with silver damage (+1d20 vs silver haters) 14:29 Nice, so best of both worlds 14:29 easy to make too if you can find any mithril or copper or silver elven arrows 14:30 No silver elven arrows sadly. Only silver or elven 14:31 and only one silver knife 14:32 Have a silver elven dagger I found lying around. So can have max of 2 14:35 Or can I not do that? 14:35 Elven arrow+silver knife? 14:36 not normal elven arrows, need to be metal 14:36 normal elven arrows are wood 14:36 so knife + silver elven arrows, or copper/mithril elven arrows + silver knife 14:37 Got it 14:38 So I can use ordinary silver arrows with metal darts, to make a silver knife 14:38 Shame metal darts are so rare 14:38 metal darts are super-common 14:39 I've picked up all darts I see, including backtracking to earlier levels 14:39 and have 8 mithril 14:39 normal darts are iron 14:39 if it doesnt say wood or bone or stone, it is good for forging 14:39 Oh 14:39 same with arrows 14:39 perfect 14:40 elven arrows and clubs are the main forging mats that default to wood 14:40 Aye 14:40 Would love some silver darts tho 14:41 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Ran Hum Fem Neu) had a knife entrusted to her by Venus, on T:19906 (7:42:36) 14:43 [hdf-eu] [evil] McPanther (Mon Dro Mal Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping 10 bone darts on an altar, on T:3680 (1:02:40) 14:46 [hdf-eu] [evil] McPanther (Mon Dro Mal Cha) consumed animal products (fortune cookie) for the first time, on T:3893 (1:05:46) 14:47 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Sam Gia Mal Law), 1043 points, T:1343, killed by the Goblin King 14:49 -!- elenmirie__ has joined #evilhack 14:57 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Ran Hum Fem Neu) had a dwarvish bearded axe entrusted to her by Venus, on T:21735 (7:58:09) 15:02 -!- imanity73 has joined #evilhack 15:04 [hdf-eu] [evil] McPanther (Mon Dro Mal Cha), 6756 points, T:4802, killed by Mr. Gweebarra; the shopkeeper 15:05 -!- mobileuser has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05 -!- imanity has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05 -!- imanity73 is now known as Imanity 15:11 -!- elenmirie__ has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 15:12 -!- elenmirie__ has joined #evilhack 15:12 -!- elenmirie__ is now known as elenmirie 15:14 currently, you can fix supermaterials exactly like other materials with the relevant confused scroll, you just have to keep track of the fixed status yourself 15:14 Sounds like a pretty serious bug. I won't abuse it unless I have to 15:15 as krm26 said the general sentiment seems to be that fixed supermaterials shouldn't be allowed, but personally i think it should be for armor, and displayed with an appropriate adjective, like "warded" or something 15:15 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 15:16 it doesn't make sense to me that casters could deteriorate supermaterials but can't/won't deteriorate fixed normal materials instead of going to the trouble of unfixing them 15:16 Yeah that makes sense 15:21 [hdf-eu] [evil] btimofeev (Inf Ith Mal Una), 738 points, T:1211, killed by a system shock 15:27 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:1795 (0:11:41) 15:36 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack 15:36 hallo lads 15:37 did anything funny happen today? I am too lazy to read logs 15:37 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 1172 points, T:3002, poisoned by a gnome noble 15:38 you are the logs! 15:39 just a discussion of the weirdness of fixed supermaterials 15:39 lol 15:40 it's like that guy from thief of time. if i became logs completely I wouldn't be able to be human anymore, so no more nethack :( 15:41 someone needs to find some sort of gamebreaking bug while k2's gone that I can exploit 15:41 the teleportation past demon lairs is still there 15:42 yeah but I wanna fight those guys 15:42 ah, only FUN game-breaking bugs. that's trickier 15:42 hahaha 15:43 I should probably win 0.8.3 soon 15:43 I have been addicted to non-nethack video games lately, shockingly 15:44 traitor! 15:44 other roguelikes, or different genres entirely? 15:44 I got really into this game called baba is you, a puzzle game 15:44 I firmly believe it is harder than any nethack variant by an order of magnitued 15:45 *magnitude 15:45 * Pinkbeast inhales to sing the praises of that _other_ roguelike with Sigmund but eh, you've heard it before 15:45 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Hea Trt Mal Neu), 945 points, T:1547, killed by trying to drink molten lava 15:46 I have not in fact heard it before, pinkbeast 15:46 enlighten me 15:47 DCSS; it's a (now very distant) cousin of NetHack that tries to be hard because the monsters are hard to beat, disdaining bullshit typo deaths. I particularly recommend the Stoat Soup variant except eh, probably try vanilla first. :-) 15:47 It is a horrible shock coming to it from NetHack 15:47 ah I played a bit of crawl before 15:48 a lot more straightforward than nethack, for sure 15:49 I think it's a game that exposes one of the underlying flaws in the roguelike genre though, that being that the combat is really not as interesting as your imagination would have you believe 15:49 but I never beat it so I should probably give it another shot before forming any judgement 15:49 I quite enjoyed my time with it but I think I got sucked away into evil before I got too far 15:50 Vanilla Crawl has perhaps been made _too_ straightforward (disclaimer, this is very much personal opinion, loads of people love it) 15:50 I got that impression from some other people, as well 15:51 I kept trying to eat stuff to no avail for a couple hours until I found out they'd removed hunger :P 15:51 I do think the combat is more interesting, mostly because you can lose it (compare the huge tranche of NetHack - yeah, less true in Evil - where you can just walk up to anything and bash it dead). What you do when things go south (and how well you recognise that things are going south, or even that they are so likely to that you should preemptively do something) is huge 15:51 We kept food, can't not have food 15:53 yeah, I did notice that 15:53 it has such a different feel from nethack i find them difficult to compare meaningfully. DCSS aims (and does a fair job of) making a large portion of the time you spend playing require thoughtful decisions. Nethack is more about cultivating habits and making big-picture decisions so as to avoid game-ending screwups. 15:53 in evil I think combat is kept mostly interesting throughout, but it still falls prey to the nethack syndrome of many many enemies that you don't necessarily need to care about in any meaningful way 15:54 terrapin yeah, very different styles 15:54 dcss requires short-term decisions to win, but nethack requires long-term habits to not lose 15:54 why I never saw the comparisons to, say, angband and nethack as that interesting 15:54 There's also Lait's maxim that a windshield kill should be easy to carry out - even more so in Crawl where you can just Tab it down 15:54 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 2669 points, T:2473, killed by a kobold lord, while frozen by a monster's gaze 15:54 angband I also tried but didn't like that much, it's very grindy 15:54 angband is the WORST 15:55 because Angband is not so interesting to begin with :) 15:55 i can't articulate why i hate it so much compared to nethack, but i do 15:55 Angband is less grindy with no_selling and modern play doctrine; I used to feel that way but, much to my surprise, got a win a few years ago with those two changes 15:55 hahaha 15:55 I rather sink 150 hours of gameplay into an Assassins' Creed than a single game of Angband 15:56 xD 15:56 the biggest problem with angband, for me, is definitely a problem with my own mindset; that being, if there is an advantage to be gained by doing something, or if you can do something to become more powerful, you do it 15:56 Pinkbeast I think that's part of what i don't like about it; the many options for configuring what kind of game you're about to play bewilder me 15:56 you may have seen me farm for four hours on the first 3 dungeon levels in nethack until I had -35 AC and 140 HP, magic resistance and reflection :P 15:56 Loggers_VIII: It's that which the modern play doctrine has kind of overcome - you're not the Borg, you make mistakes, it's not actually good in terms of winning the game (winning _this_ game) to grind forever on very safe levels 15:57 terrapin: The defaults are pretty sensible but IKWYM. 15:58 another roguelike I tried out was brogue, which I got a vague feeling of being something marvelous from but I think I got evil'd before I got into it :) 15:58 sensible> er assuming we are over the resistance to making no_selling default on, which I think we are 15:58 NetHack as a whole is probably way too long. but with NetHack I have at least a hunch that there is a smaller, better game in there that's trying to get out. 15:59 nahh nethack is too short 15:59 but then variant devs come along and put more stuff you need to do on it as if we are all immortals 15:59 bhaak, please. I come to you in a time of great need. put a new one-level side branch in vanilla. like a ludios type deal. the people will love it 16:00 For me the moment of maximum exasperation with NetHack over Crawl was doing the Ranger quest in Spork; dozens of centaurs firing arrows at me, none of whom posed the slightest danger - but an immense tide of messages to get through and then a vast pile of stuff to look at (with neither autoexplore nor stash tracking). 16:00 I like the ranger quest quite a bit, but that can be annoying 16:00 If every centaur in the quest had come and dropped dead on the same square leaving behind their XP and items it would have posed exactly the same amount of threat. 16:01 that is a problem with nethack also, apart from a few monsters stuff simply doesn't do enough physical damage 16:01 (after the mid game) 16:02 yeah, i went from Sil -> Nethack, stayed there for a while, realized other RLs existed, and then abandoned Nethack for several years because i couldn't take the subpar UI 16:02 I like what they've done in vanilla with knockback, though, making a lot of melee monsters more dangerous 16:02 Maybe that comes early; in my last win I was lucky, yeah, but I came out of the Mines on D:2 knowing in all probability the next challenging monster I saw would be Rodney. 16:02 well that's just you being better than me at the game I guess :P 16:02 priests are especially egregious 16:03 Loggers_VIII: Vanilla, dwarven Valkyrie, got lucky in the Mines - anyone could do it 16:03 oh vanilla dwarf valk yeah of course 16:03 terrapin like the monster or the role 16:03 the quest gives you >500HP for no risk except quitting from boredom 16:03 ahhhh 16:03 they bonked that a bit in 3.7 but you still gain HP, just less 16:04 i remember my first evil ascension before the HP gain nerf; i had about 1500 Pw. those were the days! 16:04 wow 16:05 even in my current game i'm at 700 Pw and have several dozen wraiths left if i want them 16:05 I'm going to write down all the complaints people have with variants/vanilla and fix them in my hypothetical future variant 16:06 maybe I'll work on that after I'm done with this stupid fucking "let the player play sheepshead" patch 16:06 "Your complaint has been logged." 16:06 Also (briefly) gods are all very different, not three barely-distinct flavours. Uniques roam the dungeon to be extra murderous. A huge raft of unrands (~= NetHack artifacts) with - something vanilla has got right - increasingly varied effects, not just "+8 sword, slay dragon". (Randarts fill that space). 16:07 let's get a cool page that's like the YANI archive but it's a complaint archive 16:07 a sheepshead fan? nice 16:07 Loggers_VIII: what kind of 1 level side branch? 16:07 YAC or something 16:07 terrapin yeah :) 16:07 Also Stoat Soup has a triceratops, making it clearly superior to all roguelikes without triceratopses. 16:07 card games are actually what introduced me to RLs 16:08 the Sil author created some solitaire games that i was checking out and then i looked at the Sil page 16:08 bhaak like something later in the dungeon, possibly to go along with the revamped gehennom. challenging but optional, can complete it for some nice rewards, but not necessarily anything unique 16:09 wow without solitaire you might not have gotten into RLs? 16:09 probably not, yeah :) 16:10 there aren't enough magic markers in the game 16:10 I like where you seem to be Going with this 16:17 [hdf-eu] [evil] btimofeev (Kni Dro Mal Cha) averted death (zombified by a diseased drow corpse), on T:3578 (0:55:28) 16:17 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:1559 (0:14:10) 16:18 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Ran Hum Fem Neu) had a leather alchemy smock entrusted to her by Venus, on T:25234 (8:45:18) 16:18 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Sam Gia Mal Law) performed his first genocide (gelatinous cubes), on T:113 (0:01:41) 16:20 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Con Dwa Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:63848 (14:25:38) 16:23 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Hea Trt Mal Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:2028 (0:30:26) 16:23 bhaak: please revert the "unseen monsters deidentify items" change (ad7f2afef9907ef6e52a17dd446b44d1dc774dbe) and flipped sokoban 16:23 [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Hea Trt Mal Neu) killed Gollum, on T:2183 (0:31:23) 16:24 don't listen to noisytoot he's crazy 16:24 ok actually the first one is weird and idk why it was added 16:25 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed] 16:27 if zen has taught me anything, it's that the whole dknown situation is rather a mess 16:29 [hdf-eu] [evil] btimofeev (Kni Dro Mal Cha), 2637 points, T:4128, killed by a snake 16:32 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Ran Hum Fem Neu) had a wooden spear entrusted to her by Venus, on T:26738 (8:59:55) 16:36 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Ran Hum Fem Neu) had a spear entrusted to her by Venus, on T:27219 (9:03:22) 16:38 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping a Slice of Pizza on an altar, on T:3748 (0:34:33) 16:39 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Sam Gia Mal Law) killed the Goblin King, on T:2128 (0:22:40) 16:40 Venus is really into spears 16:42 lol 16:48 -!- elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 16:54 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Ran Hum Fem Neu) had a pair of low boots entrusted to her by Venus, on T:28492 (9:21:55) 16:55 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Con Dwa Mal Cha) entered the Hidden Dungeon, on T:64940 (14:57:48) 16:55 sea dragon scales, let's go! 16:55 the gelcube's reign of terror has ended 16:55 heh 16:56 it's like they are specifically designed to counter blind illithid priests 17:00 [hdf-us] [evil] spenceshady (Wiz Trt Mal Neu), 470 points, T:1254, killed by the Goblin King 17:00 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Con Dwa Mal Cha) averted death (petrified by a beholder), on T:65220 (15:03:12) 17:03 -!- shadowrider38 has joined #evilhack 17:03 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Con Dwa Mal Cha), 1076540 points, T:65523, petrified by Tal'Gath 17:03 !lg 17:03 -!- hasselhoff has joined #evilhack 17:03 !lastgame 17:03 terrapin: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/b/btimofeev/evilhack/dumplog/1696533676.evil.html :: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/S/Splunge/evilhack/dumplog/1696373615.evil.html :: [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/A/Arahael/evilhack/dumplog/1694936099.evil.html 17:04 oof 17:05 Removing blindfold can be dangerous in the hidden realm 17:06 I only did it once all beholders were dead 17:06 he had opportunity to blind himself, wonder why he didn't 17:07 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Ran Hum Fem Neu) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:28566 (9:34:55) 17:08 -!- shadowrider38 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08 Yeah, he killed a troll and dropped some things instead 17:08 Weird 17:08 -!- shadowrider38 has joined #evilhack 17:08 I hope he learned his lesson 17:09 Pretty late death 17:09 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Ran Hum Fem Neu) chose a runed broadsword to be named "Orcrist", on T:28607 (9:36:18) 17:13 -!- shadowrider38 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:14 [hdf-us] [evil] spenceshady (Wiz Trt Mal Neu), 388 points, T:2559, died of starvation, while fainted 17:27 [hdf-us] [evil] spenceshady (Wiz Trt Mal Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:1734 (0:12:59) 17:28 How many silver elven daggers is a good amount to carry? Assuming none get lost 17:31 as a wizard who's probably using them largely as a supplement, maybe like 6-8? Even with those relying on daggers for damage, i usually have a big stack of mithril daggers and <11 silver daggers that i may mostly keep in a BoH just because of the weight 17:33 Great. I think I can almost forge 7, and have 1 as a lucky drop 17:40 [hdf-us] [evil] Nightsorrow (Sam Hum Mal Law), 2093 points, T:2556, killed by a wolf, while praying 17:41 -!- hasselhoff has quit [Quit: Client closed] 17:43 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 17:55 -!- shadowrider38 has joined #evilhack 17:56 -!- shadowrider38 has quit [Client Quit] 18:02