00:00 -!- arahael has joined #evilhack 00:01 yeah I think a special case would need to be made in defends() 00:01 [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed Famine, on T:110195 (1 day, 8:05:09) 00:02 yup, gave a hill orc the artifact, it wielded it. and i killed it with a wand of fire 00:05 -!- k3ut0i has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:08 oh wacky dragon-scaled armor only gives the primary extrinsic to monsters 00:09 [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed Famine (5 times), on T:110300 (1 day, 8:12:41) 00:09 hmm i'm not quite sure what to do in defends() 00:10 thing i tried no workie 00:11 I just killed an orc wielding fire brand with a scroll of fire 00:11 i suspect the issue is that all artifact-granted resistances no workie 00:11 huh 00:11 i thought that was fixed? there was a 3.7 commit I imported awhile back 00:12 yeah, zap.c has checks for defended, so wands should be resisted, but I guess there's nothing for explosions? 00:12 aaah 00:12 -!- k3ut0i has joined #evilhack 00:13 [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed Pestilence, on T:110350 (1 day, 8:16:45) 00:13 [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed the White Horse, on T:110354 (1 day, 8:16:59) 00:15 [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 8612730 points, T:110373, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/x/xdminsy/evilhack/dumplog/1693951972.evil.html 00:15 oh and i was wrong about dragon-scaled armor---in general it works fine. but the AD_ELEC case should check for celestial scales in defends() 00:15 congratulations, xdminsy! 00:15 woooohooo xdminsy \o/ 00:15 Thanks lol. 00:16 The astral plane is much tougher than I though, I have no magic whistle and cannot control my woolly rain lol. 00:16 Maybe I should wish one magic whistle:P 00:16 terrapin good catch 00:17 uhitm also doesn't check defended() 00:17 hrm 00:17 just burned an orc wielding fire brand with a dagger of fire 00:18 er no wait that wouldn't be in uhitm 00:18 [hdf-us] [evil] eggandhull (Sam Gia Mal Law) had Snickersnee bestowed upon him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:2445 (0:25:50) 00:18 was about to say 00:18 i see defended() in uhitm 00:18 its missing in artifact.c 00:19 yeah, spec_dbon 00:19 and spec_applies 00:20 It's interesting playing baldur's gate 3 after playing nethack for so long. And... I still kind of prefer nethack. 00:20 heya arahael 00:20 :D 00:20 Hey K2! 00:20 you keep connecting/disconnecting a lot 00:20 :P 00:20 Yeah, I actually just got banned recently from another channel for that reason - I've disabled my auto-reconnect. Seems it's way too frequent on mac laptops. If I keep reconnecting, please let me know? 00:21 That is, I've now disabled it today. ;) 00:21 (also: vulnerable_to() in muse.c) 00:22 don't worry about the auto-reconnect, you've got nothing on Loggers! :P 00:22 terrapin: Ha, but the issue is other channels I'm in which tend to be low activity so it does make me look especially spammy there. 00:23 arahael gotcha 00:23 ah got it 00:23 Thanks. :) 00:24 mondata.c, not muse.c; whoops 00:26 it's a shame; "frost brand" would actually be a great name for the icyhot sword 00:26 terrapin, got mondata covered 00:26 "cleaver" would be okay too---it's got the auto-antonym thing going 00:27 all the good names are taken! 00:27 What's the new weapon? 00:27 forge frost brand + fire brand to get a weapon that does both fire and cold damage 00:28 (details TBA) 00:28 Hmm. 00:28 actaully spec_applies should be covered already? 00:28 If we didn't have the BUC thing going, "unholy firebrand" would work. 00:29 if (defended(mtmp, (int) weap->attk.adtyp)) 00:29 return FALSE; 00:29 not wholly a fiery sword, eh? i like it! 00:30 frozen hellsbrand? 00:30 -!- eggandhull has joined #evilhack 00:31 hey all. xp 8, ac -4 giant samurai found a magic lamp. shall i use it up, for what wish? got no MR/refl etc 00:32 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) had Dirge gifted to him by the grace of Manannan Mac Lir, on T:20881 (4:07:13) 00:32 eggandhull: Whatever helps you get the castle wand, I think. As a monk, I always go for dragonbane because of the castle dragons. 00:32 could go mithril amulet of MR, or dragonbane, or wait until you finish sokoban 00:33 lol my 2 weekend attempts failed before sokoban's end 00:34 blessed fixed greased +2 dragonbane of decay? 00:34 Don't think you can wish for multiple magic effects like that - I mean you can, but you don't get it. 00:39 ok i got defended() covered in artifact.c 00:39 and mondata.c 00:39 and the bit for celestial dragons you pointed out terrapin 00:40 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3576 (4:00:07) 00:40 no wish lol 00:44 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 5539 points, T:4112, killed by a dwarf lady 00:47 xdminsy: congrats \o/ 00:47 yeah i'm not sure how to handle the dual adtyp in defends 00:48 -!- arahael has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:50 i was thinking something like: if (weap->defn.adtyp == AD_FUSE && (adtyp == AD_FIRE || adtyp == AD_COLD)) return TRUE; inside the if ((weap = get_artifact(otmp)) != 0) block 00:51 then let it fall through to the existing return (boolean) (weap->defn.adtyp == adtyp); if it doesn't return 00:51 ok 00:53 so like this? 00:53 if ((weap = get_artifact(otmp)) != 0) { 00:53 if (weap->defn.adtyp == AD_FUSE 00:53 && (adtyp == AD_FIRE || adtyp == AD_COLD)) 00:53 return TRUE; 00:53 return (boolean) (weap->defn.adtyp == adtyp); 00:53 } 00:54 yup 00:56 oh, one tricky thing is that defends(obj, AD_FUSE) won't work right---two different objects might grant fire and cold resistance to a monster, but defends() won't notice that 00:56 pretty rare and would require a lot of changes to the code, though 00:57 gotcha 00:57 your suggestion seems to work 00:58 gave a hill orc the artifact, its wielding it 00:58 zapped it with both wands of fire and cold, it took no damge from either 00:58 nice! 00:58 \o/ 00:58 ok i gotta sleep 00:58 i didnt realize its almost 1am 00:59 'night; i should sleep too 00:59 i'll figure out a cool name for the weapon later heh 00:59 gnite o/ 00:59 o/ 00:59 !tell terrapin explode() ??? 00:59 I'm on it, terrapin. 01:15 [hdf-us] [evil] eggandhull (Sam Gia Mal Law) had a leather helm of speed entrusted to him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:4596 (1:22:56) 01:18 [hdf-us] [evil] eggandhull (Sam Gia Mal Law) killed the Goblin King, on T:4723 (1:25:21) 01:46 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:6532 (1:22:24) 01:46 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, acquiring an amulet of reflection, on T:27177 (5:21:42) 02:01 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 02:08 -!- eggandhull has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:17 -!- k3ut0i has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:24 -!- k3ut0i has joined #evilhack 02:44 [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Con Dro Fem Cha), 559 points, T:1285, killed by a bugbear 03:07 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:10702 (2:23:46) 03:23 -!- elenmirie has joined #evilhack 03:37 -!- xdminsy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:38 -!- xdminsy has joined #evilhack 03:41 congrats on the wizard ascension xdminsy ! 03:44 thanks mobileuser and k3ut0i! 03:46 [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Con Dro Fem Cha) became literate by reading The Blacksmith's Cookbook, on T:4050 (1:01:37) 03:49 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) had a dagger entrusted to her by The Lady, on T:17861 (3:05:28) 03:53 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) had a shield of light entrusted to her by The Lady, on T:18817 (3:09:51) 03:54 [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Con Dro Fem Cha), 1107 points, T:5071, killed by a hobgoblin 03:58 [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Con Dro Fem Cha), 75 points, T:587, killed by a jackal 04:22 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) had a scimitar entrusted to her by The Lady, on T:22437 (3:38:47) 04:45 [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Con Dro Fem Cha) became literate by reading The Blacksmith's Cookbook, on T:4084 (0:46:47) 04:57 -!- elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 04:58 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) had a leather cloak of protection entrusted to him by Manannan Mac Lir, on T:37150 (7:26:26) 05:04 [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Con Dro Fem Cha) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:6929 (1:05:49) 05:52 -!- arahael has joined #evilhack 05:55 [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Con Dro Fem Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:11301 (1:56:57) 06:08 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, acquiring an amulet of magic resistance, on T:27851 (5:23:59) 06:36 [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Con Dro Fem Cha), 17015 points, T:16528, petrified by a cockatrice 06:36 wth silly mistakes. 06:36 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:30408 (5:52:52) 06:41 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased +3 dragonhide speed boots", on T:25823 (6:29:23) 06:43 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) had a spear entrusted to her by The Lady, on T:30857 (5:59:36) 06:59 -!- elenmirie has joined #evilhack 07:22 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) had a steel dagger entrusted to her by Hermes, on T:25882 (6:31:45) 07:24 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) had a pair of gauntlets of protection entrusted to her by The Lady, on T:34851 (6:40:15) 07:29 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:31 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, acquiring a magic marker, on T:26380 (6:40:25) 07:52 -!- k3ut0i has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:53 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) had a heavy mace entrusted to her by Hermes, on T:27917 (7:02:37) 07:59 -!- k3ut0i has joined #evilhack 08:08 -!- Pinkbeast has quit [Server closed connection] 08:08 -!- Pinkbeast has joined #evilhack 08:17 -!- arahael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:18 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack 08:20 hai 08:21 hla 08:21 *hola 08:21 o/ 08:21 congrats on your asc xdminsy 08:32 -!- dbanethacker has joined #evilhack 08:33 -!- Loggers_VIII75 has joined #evilhack 08:33 -!- Loggers_VIII75 has quit [Client Quit] 08:34 -!- Log has joined #evilhack 08:34 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:34 -!- Log is now known as Loggers_VIII 08:50 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed] 09:00 -!- k3ut0i has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:07 -!- k3ut0i has joined #evilhack 09:27 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Mal Neu) had Mjollnir bestowed upon him by Odin, on T:12074 (3:07:12) 09:47 -!- dbanethacker has quit [Quit: Client closed] 09:48 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) polymorphed her first object, on T:39650 (8:52:45) 09:57 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) killed Aphrodite, on T:40058 (9:01:44) 10:11 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) made her first wish - "blessed greased fixed +3 dragonhide helm of speed", on T:41427 (9:15:42) 10:20 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) killed the Master of Thieves, on T:41829 (9:24:49) 10:20 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:41831 (9:24:51) 10:21 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) completed her quest without incident, on T:42007 (9:26:18) 10:24 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 10:25 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack 10:25 Hi loggers, my last con dro has a fancy start. 10:26 hi xdminsy 10:26 I got 2 mithril armor and one dragonhide hooded cloak, reach -11 AC. 10:26 \ 10:26 damn 10:26 Then find a coaligned altar, drop all items and forget to wield sting :P 10:26 that's quite lucky, have you removed ball? 10:27 Yes, happens after removing the ball. 10:27 nice 10:27 But I hit a cockatrice bare-handed. 10:27 that's quite good start, you can camp for luck blade maybe 10:27 ! 10:27 unfortunate :( 10:28 Lol, I don't know what am I thinking, I should throw daggers really. 10:28 happens to the best of us 10:28 Are you playing hackem. 10:28 yes I am playing hackem recently 10:28 I keep killing my tourists, not sure why 10:28 maybe I played too much con dro, now I don't know how to play anything else :P 10:29 At least drow has some advantages than human. 10:29 yeah 10:30 I used to find tourist very easy, idk what changed 10:30 Not sure, maybe you play like con dro and petless. 10:32 yeah 10:32 perhaps I should start playing with pets again 10:33 ready for another new forged artifact? 10:33 I turned a pet cat into an orange dragon this game, think I can get far 10:33 you know I am 10:33 :P 10:33 [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Con Dro Fem Cha), 78 points, T:166, killed by a jackal, while praying 10:33 soooon 10:33 just cleaning things up 10:33 Frostburn? 10:33 different name but yeah 10:35 Firefreeze :P 10:35 lol 10:35 Dichotomy 10:35 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed] 10:36 [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Con Dro Fem Cha), 0 points, T:80, killed by a fox 10:38 [hdf-us] [evil] tau (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 1120 points, T:1033, killed by a steel dagger 10:45 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 10:45 :) Dichotomy is a nice name for a sword. 10:46 thanks 10:46 took me awhile to come up with it 10:57 [hdf-us] [evil] tau (Wiz Elf Mal Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:1409 (0:17:50) 10:57 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) killed Croesus, on T:43261 (10:01:57) 11:02 ooh "Dichotomy"'s neat 11:02 terrapin: Message from terrapin at 2023-09-11 00:59 EDT: explode() ??? 11:05 I thought of another pun---The Elements' Foil. But puns aren't grand enough for powerful artifacts 11:05 i found a bug in explode() 11:05 yeah it igores resistance 11:05 ad_acid was looking for poison resistance 11:06 does it? 11:06 oh huh 11:06 case AD_FIRE: 11:06 explmask[i][j] |= (resists_fire(mtmp) 11:06 || defended(mtmp, AD_FIRE)); 11:06 i'm pretty sure 11:06 and so on 11:07 yeah 11:07 but when explmask[i][j] == 1, it damages the monster 11:07 (also a vanilla bug, it looks like) 11:07 hmm 11:08 here's what I have - https://termbin.com/1imhm 11:10 a runesword---Loggers will be happy :) 11:10 heh 11:10 in another commit, i'm going to open up broadsword skill to ranger, and merge dagger/knife 11:11 oh very cool 11:12 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) had Angelslayer bestowed upon him by Manannan Mac Lir, on T:42713 (8:31:44) 11:12 -!- dbanethacker has joined #evilhack 11:13 damn, quadruple damage vs. nonresistant targets 11:14 is there a reason for the +1 in dbon = 2 * dbon ? 11:15 its not quad 11:15 well one sec 11:15 oh right, triple 11:15 damage tests I was doing were showing diff values 11:16 i swear i can math 11:16 They say 4 out of 3 people sometimes have a hard time with math..... 11:17 should there be an AD_FUSE case in vulnerable_to()? 11:17 haha! 11:17 you can prob math better than I can 11:17 putting that bonus in spec_dbon makes a difference between whether a monster resists just one vs neither types 11:18 right, that makes sense 11:19 i was wondering if you also would want further increased damage against monsters who were M4_VULNERABLE_(FIRE|COLD) 11:19 it should yeah 11:20 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) had a crystal plate mail entrusted to him by Manannan Mac Lir, on T:43242 (8:39:36) 11:20 but yeah the triple damage is neat---it's suitably epic, but also doesn't really do much against the really hard monsters 11:22 wow a crystal plate mail gift. you don't see that every day 11:26 no kidding hah 11:26 oh and i misread the explode() thing---it should in theory work 11:26 it doesn't 11:26 ah ok 11:26 but it should 11:27 maybe phys damage is still in play 11:27 i seem to recall that 11:28 brb 11:28 yeah that is a factor, but it doesn't seem to happen at all with AD_FIRE attacks 11:31 [hdf-us] [evil] Yeshua (Mon Dwa Mal Law) tasted meat for the first time, by eating a floating eye corpse, on T:3197 (0:35:50) 11:32 huh 11:37 -!- dbanethacker has quit [Quit: Client closed] 11:38 [hdf-us] [evil] Yeshua (Mon Dwa Mal Law) killed the Goblin King, on T:3575 (0:43:43) 11:42 oh i got it 11:43 fire scrolls do AD_MAGM damage because ZT_SPELL_O_FIRE is defined as 11 11:44 ah shit 11:44 -!- xdminsy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:44 that should be 22 prob 11:44 does it do quadruple damage vs monsters that are vulnerable to both fire and cold (if they even exist)? 11:44 they dont 11:45 it's apparently some kind of kludge for oil? normally ZT_SPELL_O_FIRE is 12 which would work fine 11:45 and given it's a scroll i'm not really sure what it has to do with oil 11:45 https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/blob/07df0196c3b8829bf11084c87d3e434a345ce940/src/read.c#L1920 11:46 new breath attacks might have also affected things; idk 11:46 oh it definitely did 11:46 i thought i had adjusted correctly in all spots 11:47 @e?kathryn the ice queen 11:47 Kathryn the Ice Queen (@) | Lvl: 32 | Diff: 36 | Spd: 15 | Res: cold sleep petrification drain | Confer: nothing | MR: 80 | Gen: unique | AC: 0 | Atk: 3d4 weapon physical, 8d8 touch cold, 3d8 cast clerical, 3d8 cast spell | Align: -128 | omnivore, flies, regen, seeinvis, nopoly 11:48 if the fire scrolls are doing magic damage in this version it might explain why xdminsy (i think?) didn't see any damage using scrolls vs. kathryn 11:48 she could have had an MR cloak 11:48 [hdf-us] [evil] Yeshua (Mon Dwa Mal Law), 6639 points, T:4120, zombified by a dwarf zombie 11:48 so the value has been wrong there all along then 11:49 the breath attack changes arent live 11:49 oh, he played locally though on newer code 11:51 okay yeah, definitely started when the new breath was added 11:51 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 11:52 -!- qt has joined #evilhack 11:56 https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/blob/07df0196c3b8829bf11084c87d3e434a345ce940/src/uhitm.c#L3451 11:56 https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/blob/07df0196c3b8829bf11084c87d3e434a345ce940/src/potion.c#L2689 11:56 https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/blob/07df0196c3b8829bf11084c87d3e434a345ce940/src/artifact.c#L1882 11:58 oopsies 11:58 potion link should be fine 11:59 as its directly calling EXPL_FIREY 11:59 the other two need adjustment 11:59 20 should be 22 11:59 i think that mostly just defines what the explosion looks like 11:59 the scroll had EXPL_FIERY too 12:00 11 should be 12 (11 + (AD_FIRE = 2) - 1) 12:01 also that line in potion.c looks wrong 12:02 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) had Trollsbane bestowed upon him by Manannan Mac Lir, on T:45476 (9:21:12) 12:02 d(6, 6) is in the wrong spot? 12:02 no it's good 12:03 explode(x, y, type, dam, olet, expltype) 12:03 oh 12:03 i see the 11 there 12:03 jesus christ i cant read 12:03 i'm still working on the dichotomy artifact heh 12:05 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack 12:16 ok those cases are corrected 12:16 nice catch terrapin 12:30 ugh, vulnerable_to() already covers defended() cases 12:30 i didnt need to add those bits in there 12:30 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Mal Neu), 29711 points, T:15684, withered away, while reading a book 12:31 -!- dbanethacker has joined #evilhack 12:31  must've been a bad book 12:31 'The Life and Times of Loggers_VIII' 12:32 :P 12:35 hey! :c 12:35 I'll have you know I've lead a very interesting life 12:35 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) performed her first genocide (two random monsters from class b), on T:422 (0:04:07) 12:37 heh 12:37 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) killed the invisible Ixoth, on T:47039 (9:56:53) 12:37 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:47042 (9:56:58) 12:39 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed] 12:42 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) completed his quest without incident, on T:47595 (10:01:42) 12:43 terrapin are you sure 11 is supposed to be 12 there in potion.c? 12:43 its 11 in other places and explosions are behaving fine 12:44 hmm lemme test another thing 12:46 yup you're right 12:46 crap there's a lot of places to change 12:48 probably 11 should be defined as NUM_BREATHS or something so it's easy to add more in the future 12:50 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:2643 (0:18:59) 12:55 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed Gollum, on T:3043 (0:24:26) 13:01 yeah 13:03 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack 13:05 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3898 (0:33:56) 13:12 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) destroyed Yeshua the dwarf zombie, and former Initiate, on T:4195 (0:40:47) 13:13 -!- dbanethacker has quit [Quit: Client closed] 13:14 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed] 13:17 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 13:18 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack 13:21 terrapin: Katharine used to go down with 5-6 fire scrolls. I, too, did virtually no damage with 8 of them my current game. 13:21 [backscollin 13:22 its weird, explode() type is skewed by 1 13:22 everything else appears to be fine 13:23 it's not Weird... It's C! 13:23 it's pretty weird too 13:34 @e?vecna 13:34 Vecna (L) | Lvl: 99 | Diff: 50 | Spd: 12 | Res: fire cold sleep shock poison drain | Confer: fire cold | MR: 90 | Gen: unique | AC: -10 | Atk: 8d6 touch cold, 6d6 touch wither, 3d4 gaze Death, 4d6 cast spell, 4d6 cast clerical | Align: -20 | flies, breathless, regen, seeinvis, poisonous, nopoly, stalker, covetous 13:35 when krm26 couldn't defeat the Paladin with fire, was that due to a bug? 13:36 even my rng cant be that bad, she was just untouchable 13:39 well advanced spells are in fact another place where the master branch is broken 13:39 but 0.8.2 looks like it should work just fine, unless there's an unrelated bug 13:40 -!- dbanethacker has joined #evilhack 13:40 @e?paladin 13:40 Paladin (@) | Lvl: 24 | Diff: 29 | Spd: 12 | Res: poison petrification | Confer: nothing | MR: 50 | Gen: unique | AC: 0 | Atk: 4d4 weapon physical, 2d6 weapon stun, 1d8 cast clerical, 1d6 claw amulet steal | Align: 20 | omnivore, seeinvis, nopoly, stalker, covetous, infravis 13:41 terrapin yup i am chasing that down now 13:41 the explosion type is fine but the effect is off 13:52 yup 0.8.2 is fine; y'all just had bad dice roles i guess 13:54 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a baby crocodile, on T:48611 (10:23:30) 13:56 -!- k3ut0i has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:09 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Rog Dro Fem Cha) destroyed Vecna, on T:107115 (1 day, 4:24:27) 14:22 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) had Keolewa bestowed upon her by Hermes, on T:35028 (9:29:21) 14:22 found/fixed it 14:22 now i need to test other shit 14:23 so now those other places where i changed 11 to 12 need to go back to 11 14:25 or not 14:26 the +10ns need to go to +11n, but the straight 11s from potions of oil/scrolls of fire/etc should go to 12 14:28 or possibly something like +(NUMBUZZES * n) and (NUMBUZZES + AD_FIRE - 1) respectively if you're futureproofing 14:28 the 11s cant go to 12s now, since its fixed in explode.c 14:30 oh you turned it back to type % 10 ? 14:30 yeah i had to 14:30 otherwise you'd get magical effect vs correct (using foreball spell as example) 14:30 *fireball 14:31 fuck this isnt fixed 14:32 no i'm talking about the effect 14:33 oops 14:34 oh yeah changing it back to % 10 makes a lot of sense; for some reason i though explode and buzz used the same range of damage types but that's not at all true 14:37 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) had Orcrist bestowed upon him by Manannan Mac Lir, on T:49099 (10:42:58) 14:39 right now i'm getting odd behavior when attacking with a lit potion of oil 14:40 the glyph is fire, the damage is fire, but you're caught in a ball of cold hah 14:40 oh i see it 14:41 there we go 14:42 yeah this can be confusing, esp for my smooth brain 14:42 The flagon crashes on the warg's head and breaks into shards. The warg is caught in the burning oil! 14:42 yay 14:43 You are caught in the burning oil! Your spellbook of light catches fire and burns! 14:43 more yay 14:43 and it crashes 14:43 LOL wtf 14:43 Both of your potions of unholy water boil and explode! Generating more information you may report: 14:44 #8 0x000055d3189b88bd in minimal_xname (obj=0x0) at objnam.c:1072 14:44 jeez 14:45 i just wanted to add an artifact 14:45 hahaha 14:45 game says no 14:46 oh 14:46 its the feedback pline i setup 14:46 trying to report damage from an obj that no longer exists 14:47 easy 14:47 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed] 14:47 even for my smooth caveman brain :P 14:47 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack 14:47 k2: think there is another small curses bug where max weight in perminv doesn't get updated when your leg recovers from injury 14:47 ok. will look at that later 14:48 wee fixed that crash 14:49 (also when legs get injured, not just recovery) 14:51 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) had a two-handed sword entrusted to him by Manannan Mac Lir, on T:50294 (10:56:28) 15:07 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) had Fire Brand bestowed upon him by Manannan Mac Lir, on T:51387 (11:13:17) 15:12 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 15:12 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 15:13 -!- k3ut0i has joined #evilhack 15:14 The shimmering dragon swallows the freezing sphere. "Burrrrp!" You hear an explosion. The shimmering dragon seems to have indigestion. The freezing sphere is killed! 15:15 Never seen this before :) 15:15 -!- dbanethacker has quit [Quit: Client closed] 15:15 heh 15:15 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) had a spear entrusted to her by The Lady, on T:45744 (13:25:51) 15:16 \o/ 15:18 ok i think i have all this explosion type stuff sorted 15:18 i wouldnt doubt it if i missed a thing or two but that's ok 15:18 we'll catch it if i did 15:20 [hdf-us] [evil] eggandhull (Sam Gia Mal Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a honey badger, on T:11063 (2:49:07) 15:34 -!- dbanethacker has joined #evilhack 15:39 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 9921 points, T:7016, killed by a black unicorn 15:40 [hdf-us] [evil] Yeshua (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 535 points, T:1151, killed by a piranha 15:48 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) had Sting bestowed upon him by Manannan Mac Lir, on T:52270 (11:35:57) 15:50 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) had a pair of gauntlets of dexterity entrusted to her by The Lady, on T:47845 (14:00:43) 15:51 -!- k3ut0i has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:55 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed] 15:55 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack 15:55 ok we're ready to commit 15:57 \o/ 15:58 woop 15:58 writing... 15:58 ... 16:05 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) averted death (killed by a red dragon), on T:53391 (11:52:22) 16:07 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) had Secespita bestowed upon him by Manannan Mac Lir, on T:53750 (11:54:28) 16:08 [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±12] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/07df0196c3b8...cfc8ff0cc2ee 16:08 [EvilHack] k21971 cfc8ff0 - New forging artifact recipe - Dichotomy. 16:08 -!- dbanethacker has quit [Quit: Client closed] 16:09 -!- dbanethacker has joined #evilhack 16:09 wow, crystal runesword. badass 16:09 ohhh and AoE! awesome 16:11 what are the damage bonuses for hitting fire/cold-vulnerable monsters, or both-vulnerable monsters? 16:12 well, for monsters that have the M4_VULNERABLE_* flags, see https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/cfc8ff0cc2eec1c09c4c5e57ae20b5a98429875f#diff-826043fdad8a51ce642ecc5df7a106f29124a18bbf176c6d517d460cf4c1bef9R357 16:12 thx''' 16:12 *thx 16:13 but for a monster that has neither fire or cold resistance, the damage bonus doubles 16:13 or triples 16:13 something 16:13 wow 16:13 its significant 16:13 the damage bonus doubles, which means overall the sword is doing x3 damage 16:13 plus, I can finally have melee explosions without having to forge tempest 16:13 did you notice the extrinsic protection? 16:13 this rivals SoA 16:14 yeah, the extrinsic protection alone is huge 16:14 there's a lot of monsters late game that are vulnerable to cold/fire/both, though, so gotta use it strategically 16:14 potions of full healing, scrolls of earth, etc. in open inventory 16:14 ugh i forgot to mention all of the buf fixes in the commit notes 16:14 wait really??? 16:14 holy 16:14 lucifer will destroy my shit no more 16:14 do the explosions trigger if there are peacefuls/pets nearby? 16:15 yup 16:15 probably 16:15 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed] 16:15 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack 16:15 same as any other AoE attack 16:16 gemstone runesword is already great base damage, plus triple damage is huge, tripling enchantment has the potential to be outright ridiculous 16:16 and the +3 from crystal is tripled too 16:16 let's do some math 16:16 How much damage are the explosions? 6d6? 16:16 4d6 16:16 4d6 16:17 not as great as tempest 16:17 but it doesnt need to be 16:17 +7 dichotomy... best case scenario 16:17 is runesword base damage same as in vanilla? 16:17 yes 16:19 does the base damage get tripled or is it just enchantment/gemstone bonus? 16:20 base damage, material, and enchant are doubled/tripled by artifact bonuses 16:20 nothing else is, unless you're wielding sword of kas vs. liches, in which case almost everything is tripled, except poison damage 16:20 [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±12] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/cfc8ff0cc2ee...623612f9068f 16:20 already the +7 tripled alone is 21 damage, adding in 24 from explosion is 45, base damage maxroll 8*3 is 24, plus gemstone bonus is 3*3, 9... 16:20 78? 16:20 [EvilHack] k21971 623612f - New forging artifact recipe - Dichotomy. 16:20 ^ fixed the commit notes 16:21 no code change 16:21 without factoring in skills/strength bonuses, and it's obviously very unlikely to maxroll like that, but still 16:21 average explosion damage is 1/6 * 14 = ~2 16:21 oh you were going max roll 16:22 yeah 16:22 I want to know the big number :) 16:22 [hdf-us] [evil] guiltypanacea (Ran Dro Fem Cha), 831 points, T:1088, killed by a gnome lord, while unconscious from rotten food 16:22 heh 16:22 new player? 16:22 anyway, tl;dr most damaging weapon in the game *under certain circumstances* 16:23 maybe sword of kas vs liches can beat it? idk 16:24 just glad runeswords get some love 16:24 \o/ 16:24 we'll see how it goes 16:24 may need to reign it in a bit if its deemed too powerful 16:24 but in testing i liked the damage output 16:25 should be fun. when you focus on best case scenario it seems op but so much is resistant to cold/fire/both in the mid-late game it should be balanced 16:25 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed] 16:25 yeah fire/frost brand would actually beat it out vs. small cold/fire-resistant enemies 16:26 guiltypanacea i recognize, they were watching nethackathon 16:26 the only thing i'd be worried about is extrinsic inventory protection 16:26 it was one thing with tempest but full healing being immediately accessible seems like a lot 16:27 What exactly does the damage get doubled and tripled against? 16:27 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Rog Dro Fem Cha) killed Baalzebub, on T:107639 (1 day, 4:33:53) 16:27 you can always fix your stack of full healing 16:27 doubled vs. fire- xor cold-resistant enemies. tripled vs. fire- and cold-resistant enemies 16:28 krm26 does that work? i didn't think potions checked fixed status 16:28 what about vulnerabilities? 16:28 i guess i just assumed terrapin, i've never bothered to do it 16:29 you *should* be able to fix them, they are glass 16:29 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) had Luck Blade bestowed upon him by Manannan Mac Lir, on T:55853 (12:16:13) 16:29 Lots of other variants (NetHack 3.7, xNetHack, dNetHack, Hack'EM at least) have extrinsics protect your inventory and it's fine (and even easier to obtain since any extrinsic sources provide it) 16:29 yeah, you'd think so. looks like it doesn't work though 16:30 oh interesting Noisytoot 16:32 having armor resistances extrinsically protect your inventory always seemed kinda silly to me. only the most powerful magic should be able to do that. so I reserve that functionality to things like forged artifacts 16:32 makes them that much more special/desireable 16:34 about to leave soon, but next up - unlocking broadsword skill for ranger, and merging dagger/knife skill 16:35 woohoo! very exciting 16:36 [hdf-us] [evil] knnn (Ran Hum Mal Cha), 621 points, T:1800, killed by the Goblin King 16:36 ok headed out, back soon 16:37 if you look in uhitm.c around line 2120, you can undo the #if 0 / #endif and use the damage output indicator in play testing weapons 16:37 see how dichotomy fares :) 16:37 cya 16:37 o/ 16:41 it makes things like rings of * resistance actually useful once you have the intrinsic 16:41 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha), 510829 points, T:55998, killed by a giant centipede 16:45 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Rog Dro Fem Cha) killed Mephistopheles, on T:108260 (1 day, 4:51:47) 16:50 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Con Orc Fem Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:7405 (1:48:57) 16:55 -!- Guest53 has joined #evilhack 16:55 -!- dbanethacker has quit [Quit: Client closed] 16:56 huh so I found a potion of drow poison, there's no wiki entry for it yet. I'm playing as a Drow (Hasselhoff the dark knight, riding). What does Drow Poison do? 16:58 puts targets to sleep. 16:58 isn't reflected like a wand of sleep. 16:59 might outright poison them, too 17:00 you can dip weapons in it to "taint" them, like with a potion of sickness. vs. non--sleep-resistant targets it either puts them a sleep for a few turns or does a few points of damage if you hit with a tainted weapon 17:02 -!- dbanethacker has joined #evilhack 17:09 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:3073 (0:27:39) 17:14 -!- Guest53 has quit [Quit: Client closed] 17:15 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3969 (0:33:49) 17:18 -!- shadowrider38 has joined #evilhack 17:20 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed Gollum, on T:2830 (0:33:20) 17:29 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) performed her first genocide (gelatinous cubes), on T:4452 (0:42:25) 17:29 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) destroyed dbanethacker's ghost, the former Fighter, on T:4306 (0:47:34) 17:34 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:4674 (0:47:20) 17:39 Hasselhoff... David Hasselhoff? 17:39 was David Hasselhoff playing on hardfought just now? 17:44 he'd be a fool to play anywhere else 17:44 wise words 17:44 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:5329 (0:58:05) 17:45 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 17:49 -!- Guest53 has joined #evilhack 17:49 ah cool. thanks! 17:50 heya Guest53 17:50 you can also make drow poison 17:51 wonder if I could dip a lance in drow poison? -) 17:51 =) 17:51 dip a black fungus corpse into a potion of fruit juice 17:51 boom, drow poison 17:51 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) destroyed the invisible k3ut0i's ghost, the former Excursionist, on T:5771 (1:04:59) 17:51 ooh fun 17:51 lance? yeah you should 17:52 !lastgame k3ut0i 17:52 dbanethacker: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k3ut0i/evilhack/dumplog/1693643521.evil.html :: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k3ut0i/evilhack/dumplog/1694362495.evil.html 17:52 drow poison will last longer on drow (dark elven) weapons 17:53 -!- shadowrider38 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:55 ok... krm26 you wanted to see dagger/knife skill merge yeah? 17:55 Does it follow alchemy rules for stacks? 17:56 NoisytootI believe so. i'll admit, i didnt test every scenario 17:56 commit - https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/6973246a23c6c118b9d4ddfc6ea76275f1037ade 17:58 knives are single edged, daggers are usually double edged. I think that warrants a separate skill, IMO 17:58 not all daggers are dbl-edged 18:00 "usually"... and I have given this a lot of thought while chopping vegetables. You wouldn't want to use chef chopping techniques to chop vegies with a dagger. 18:00 true 18:00 a knife is more of a tool 18:00 a daggers main primary function is for combat 18:01 but, you can use a knife as a fighting instrument 18:01 it's been a while and I'm too lazy to go open my books, but I think daggers are "piercing" and knives are "slashing" in D&D? 18:01 probably 18:02 you can slash and pierce with both, but yeah a knife would be geared more towards slashing 18:02 if anything short sword and dagger could be the same skill, while longsword and maybe broadsword and saber could be the same. They're all 1H and slashing. 18:02 saber and scimitar skill were already merged a lil while ago 18:02 I'm also thankful that every polearm doesn't have a unique skill. 18:02 -!- Log has joined #evilhack 18:03 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:6272 (1:16:44) 18:03 Counterpoint re: knife/dagger merge; katanas and longsword use same skill and yet one is single edged and one is dbl edged 18:03 precedent! 18:04 imo size difference between a short sword and a dagger are too great, fighting technique would be markedly different between the two 18:04 good point 18:06 I try to remember all the various weapons on display in the Tower of London. The long swords weren't as long as I expected. The short swords quite short and some of the "daggers" could have been considered short swords 18:06 having said that, I'm looking at some medieval daggers, and some of these look... big 18:06 or maybe the other daggers next to what I am looking at are really small 18:07 yeah, plus people back then on average werent as large as people today 18:07 hell even 70-80 years ago 18:07 Fourk has a seperate katana skill 18:07 well fourk is wrong 18:07 :P 18:08 Fourk is silly! 18:08 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) used a helm to turn chaotic, on T:6402 (1:21:23) 18:08 i wonder what a medieval knight would think of a katana 18:08 probably love it 18:08 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 6043 points, T:6108, killed by a crocodile 18:09 they’re very different to longswords when you really get down to it 18:09 in nethack land, I think it makes sense to combine dagger/knife skill 18:09 so yeah wonder what they would think. Same if you have a longsword to a samurai or something 18:09 Yeah in NetHack land our dumb characters use all weapons equally poorly 18:15 -!- Log has quit [Quit: Client closed] 18:17 I think just limit the skills to pierce, slash, bludgeon, 2H-whatever. Tool is irrelevant. 18:18 but that's not going to happen in nh 18:19 -!- Guest53 is now known as Dingotron 18:19 some continued nh simplification of weapons skills would be nice 18:20 heya Dingotron 18:20 while we're dreaming... also a "thrown" skill 18:20 been awhile 18:22 Actually, what I really want is more playstyle versatility in the early game. Like if I find a resource let me be scrappy and creative and try to use it creatively until I get something better. Like a weapon that can help me for a few levels, let me be able to try it out with having to burn one of my skill slots that I have to carefully reserve 18:22 right now. 18:23 forging enters chat 18:23 right now, the skill slot system kindof forces more linear and deterministic playstyle that force you just to use certain builds per character all the way through 18:25 -!- Umbire has joined #evilhack 18:25 Like tourists have a lot of skill slots but you'd be foolish to burn a skill slot on most of them. 18:26 next version will see a small reduction in skill types 18:26 merging dagger/knife now, saber/scimitar was merged a lil while ago 18:26 Dingotron: scroll of amnesia lets you reset skills at lvl 15 now. It's a lifesaver 18:27 I've been using it with rogues. Train up dual weapon and short sword. Amnesia at 15 to get slots back and train longsword instead. 18:28 [hdf-us] [evil] eggandhull (Sam Gia Mal Law) had a steel saber entrusted to him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:15899 (4:13:21) 18:29 -!- Umbire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29 ya I think merging helps for sure. Another solution could also be more straight-forward ways to reset/swap skills, or to make basic in any weapon not cost you any scarce resource. (anything skill that's open to you, you can get to basic, moving past basic though requires choices) 18:30 -!- Umbire has joined #evilhack 18:32 dagger/knife, yay! thx k2 18:32 blessed amnesia has a level requirement? thought it was just an int requirement 18:32 [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±9] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/623612f9068f...0553cf1b5de9 18:32 [EvilHack] k21971 0553cf1 - More 'merge various skills'. 18:34 just an int requirement 18:34 see https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/ae3f698afc35b7f60e0c2fad5b02f7c1be29a7b9 18:36 bouquet that helps. I still think it would be more fun (and encourage more playstyle versatility) though to make basic free. Then a proportionally reduced number of skill points you can allocate for going to skilled or above. So the number of high level skills staying roughly the same, to keep things balanced. 18:37 another approach -- although i think the current mechanism is well sufficient -- is to let people always refund any skill that hasn't been raised beyond basic 18:37 -!- arahael has joined #evilhack 18:38 yes that might achieve the same goal as well 18:38 i personally think that is the best approach, but not so much better than the current mechanism to worry about changing it 18:40 I like krm26's approach! 18:40 but I also don't mind the current state of affairs 18:41 Also, what you burn skill slots on comes down to what you come across in the dungeon, in terms of Tourists. 18:42 You can only be so picky with early weapons before you just throw away a game. 18:42 -!- arahael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:42 [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/0553cf1b5de9...223bafd1b67b 18:42 [EvilHack] k21971 223bafd - Rangers gain broadsword skill. 18:43 Oh? 18:44 the evilhack wiki page needs its own little table of classes & skills since it moderately varies from vanilla 18:44 Mhm. 18:44 will need 18:44 i always have to code dive whenever i can't remember :-) 18:44 but the plan is to release new version this week 18:45 crap i better kill my current healer fast-quick then 18:45 oh hey didnt you all mention helm of speed bits 18:45 11:10 in another commit, i'm going to open up broadsword skill to ranger, and merge dagger/knife 18:46 well that's mildly disappointing but understandable 18:46 Aragorn demands an explanation 18:47 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack 18:48 the dnd division of swords into categories has always been weird, ahistorical, and mechanically gross -- just dont overthink it 18:48 I mean neither of those are swords but whatever 18:49 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Client Quit] 18:49 what is generally taken to be a "broadsword" is contemporaneous with snaplocks and flintlocks 18:50 The broadsword thing I take no issue with, to be clear 18:50 just not as onboard with dagger/knife merge as I am, say, scimitar/saber 18:51 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack 18:51 also not like the historical divisions of swords always had consensus either 18:53 [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/223bafd1b67b...2428df584a7b 18:53 [EvilHack] k21971 2428df5 - Revert 'Allow helm of speed to be made of more materials'. 18:53 we never should have told him to do that I regret it already 18:53 this game I was surprised to see helms of speed in leather, cloth, copper, and mithril. 18:53 I figured that was already in there 18:53 The fuck is "we". 18:54 never again will I wish for a dragon hide helm of speed named gustavo:( 18:54 more than 'I' 18:54 gonna have to start wishing for an adamantine helm of speed named Gustav 18:54 's not my fault you don't give what you whine about much thought 18:55 it is funny though 18:56 K2: Why did you force-push the Dichotomy commit? 18:56 my perpetual urge to come up with reasons why things should be different came back to bite me :p 18:56 Noisytoot - edited the commit notes 18:57 slippery dragonhide cloak of magic resistance of speed of decay of disintegration of charisma 18:57 and excellence 18:57 you made at least one of those up 18:57 forgot what +charisma was called 18:58 Loggers_VIII: you suggested the change 18:58 I'm surprised there aren't cloaks of reflection. I have a cycling jacket of reflection that blinds drivers 18:58 Noisytoot yeah I don’t really regret it all that much 18:58 THEM had one very briefly I think. 18:59 there should be antimatter spheres 19:00 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) destroyed the invisible guiltypanacea's ghost, the former Lookout, on T:2714 (0:17:25) 19:00 -!- arahael has joined #evilhack 19:01 Why don't antimatter vortices annihilate on contact with the air around them? 19:01 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 1311 points, T:2771, diseased by a gnome zombie 19:01 Noisytoot - magic 19:01 a smop 19:02 given their size and the amount of antimatter they're comprised of, I would suspect touching one with regular matter would annihilate the entire dungeon, and other players dungeons 3 servers over 19:02 but... magic 19:03 I think vecna hit me with an avalanche of ice and snow the other week, is that a real thing or did it come to me in a dream 19:03 anyway NHIRL 19:03 I can’t find anything about it on git/wili 19:03 *wiki 19:03 YASI: make the dungeon collapse whenever an antimatter vortex spawns 19:03 Loggers_VIII, ice queen can do that 19:03 You're probably thinking of Kathryn. 19:03 Ahhh that’s the cold spell innit 19:03 geyser 19:04 if kathryn casts it, its an avalanche 19:04 gotcha 19:04 So I only hallucinated part of the equation 19:04 :) 19:05 -!- arahael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:06 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed] 19:07 love the speed helm change 19:09 i have another materials though that probably won't be popular. stone armor is pretty awesome---same AC as mithril, and nonmetallic. maybe it should be more restricted, like only orcish gear or something? probably wouldn't work since that would make it so very few things could be stone 19:09 s/though/thought/ 19:10 It's also pretty heavy unlike mithril, is the thing. 19:10 yeah, for body armor that makes a big difference, that's true 19:10 but for like a helm of gauntlets, it's maybe 10aum, which is a small price to pay 19:10 I feel like that's enough of a draw back, at least for me. 19:11 yeah that's reasonable 19:11 heh... helm of gauntlets... 19:11 -!- dbanethacker has quit [Quit: Client closed] 19:11 you'd look like a moose 19:11 haha! 19:12 I often grab a stone helm in goblin town. Good early AC and doesn't restrict spellcasting 19:12 but they are quite heavy and quickly replaced with bone if I can find it 19:12 ^ 19:15 other thought: helms of ESP suck. you could get a dragonhide elven helm of ESP if you wanted with twice the AC. should helms of ESP maybe also grant, like, warning or searching or both or something? or just come up with a new kind of helm altogether 19:18 extrinsic invis is more of a concern in evilhack, maybe a helm of invisibility a la Hades 19:18 Helms of telepathy are Fine™ 19:19 Not exactly The Best but then they don't have to be, not like they were balanced for object properties systems 19:19 Which is the real """problem""" in this equation anyway 19:19 exactly, now that there are object properties i feel like they should be reconsidered 19:19 I'm just not fond of blaming symptoms as causes. 19:19 I enjoy wearing my helm of telepathy tyvm 19:20 it would be one thing if helms of ESP were vastly more common that other sources of ESP, but you find like one a game, often after you've found another ESP source or something better 19:20 If you're really of a mind to buff them make it so they're mind-blast compatible for illithids 19:22 In vanilla you're always superceding them Eventually™ with a QA that has telepathy outside of some conducts, so I don't find it especially pressing 19:22 i can think of exactly one time that i found a helm of ESP early enough that i didn't have a better option; either a better helm or better ESP source 19:23 hence my comment about frequency 19:23 i wouldn't mind if they were the Early Game Helm, if only you could actually find them in the early game 19:23 -!- jonadab has quit [Server closed connection] 19:24 -!- jonadab has joined #evilhack 19:24 -!- Dingotron has quit [Quit: Client closed] 19:24 it's all random. Sometimes you find vorpy early, sometimes you find a helm of telepathy. 19:25 -!- Guest53 has joined #evilhack 19:25 Yeah, after a certain point it can't entirely be helped 19:26 -!- bouquet has quit [Server closed connection] 19:27 -!- bouquet has joined #evilhack 19:29 -!- Guest53 is now known as Hasselhoffthedar 19:30 ahh finally I find an alter to bless/curse identify my two potions of gain ability I've been carrying for ages. and there's another potion of gain ability sitting next to it! thank you rng 19:31 thank you david hasselfoff 19:34 my horse I ride is named kit 19:34 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Con Dwa Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:4190 (0:28:33) 19:34 *Kitt 19:34 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Con Dwa Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (disenchanters), on T:4247 (0:29:27) 19:36 will it annoy peaceful monsters like shopkeepers if I #monster as a drow to darken their shops? 19:38 no 19:39 ok cool. that's helpful for taking on mimics 19:41 In vanilla you're always superceding them Eventually™ with a QA that has telepathy outside of some conducts, so I don't find it especially pressing 19:41 Are you? I rarely wish for artifacts in vanilla, because by the time I have a spare wish to spend on an artifact, I usually have too many already generated. 19:41 [hdf-us] [evil] eggandhull (Sam Gia Mal Law) had a steel long sword entrusted to him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:20036 (4:30:58) 19:41 The Tradesnark™ was there for a reason. 19:42 Also I think like, 1/3-1/2 of the QAs give telepathy so odds are you have it from just doing Quest. 19:44 And in the cases you don't your QA might give you warning so. 19:47 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack 19:49 I think terrapin has a point re: helms of telepathy 19:49 they suck, like. real bad 19:49 and it's kind of weird that they exist when the oprop also does 19:49 like, is it possible to get a helm of telepathy of esp 19:50 fun fact: it is impossible to wish for a helm of esp 19:50 you'll get a random helmet with the oprop 19:50 lmao 19:51 even the game knows the suck 19:51 *they 19:52 I just don't think they really fit. and it's not a matter of them needing a buff or anything the game would prob just be better if they didn't exist 19:52 yes that would be my preference but i'm not clever enough to think of a good alternative 19:52 Oprop conflict 19:52 rings of warning and amulets of ESP at least are meaningfully different from their armor/weapon counterparts 19:53 And again that's an "object materials" deal rather than a 'problem' with the helm itself. 19:53 yes but the object materials make the game better 19:53 just because the helm was there first doesn't mean it isn't the problem now 19:53 and as a byproduct the helm is worse 19:53 -!- arahael has joined #evilhack 19:53 the helm is our issue, we live in a post-oprop world 19:54 Which is my point - I'd rather address the byproduct then remove it. 19:54 [hdf-us] [evil] hasselhoff (Kni Dro Mal Cha) had a dark elven bracer entrusted to him by Lolth, on T:8436 (7:11:55) 19:54 I'm trying to come up with an "industrial revolution and its consequences" joke where 'industrial' is replace with some version of the word 'property' with a similar function can I get some help on this one 19:55 is there such a word? 19:55 -!- Hasselhoffthedar has quit [Quit: Client closed] 19:55 also when did david hasselhoff start playing evilhack 19:55 No. 19:56 feck 19:56 Also yesterday ago, I guess. 19:56 you could always make some sort of neolithic revolution joke 19:56 yeah, true 19:57 i vaguely recall dingotron saying they were off to play a dark knight named hasselhoff after they won the...whatever the other punny name was; i can't remember 19:57 king gizzard! 19:57 the illithid wizzard 19:57 haha right! 19:58 okay it's eatin' time; bye for now 19:58 later 20:00 -!- arahael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:03 Anyway I'd fix that helm of telepathy wish bug as a matter of course but also give it the illithid-form buff because having that block mind blasts never made much sense to me. 20:04 terrapin: The property is called ESP and the helm is telepathy, so why is there a wish bug? 20:05 prolly he just wished wrong 20:06 And/or was making a joke. 20:07 nah he referred to helm of telepathy as ESP throughout the whole thing and if he wished for that it makes sense he got a random helm with the oprop 20:07 didn't bother correcting him because I didn't wanna check the wiki for the names of both 20:07 I just didn't feel like being That Guy in that instance. 20:07 And legitimately thought he was making a riff. 20:08 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Con Dwa Mal Cha), 7370 points, T:6637, killed by a bolt of lightning 20:09 perhaps he was riffing but he is currently participating in eatin' time so who knows 20:09 also splunge got pretty far with that convict, nice 20:17 wild, 109k turns and haven't identified taming yet 20:17 or even seen it 20:17 It's like that sometimes. 20:17 I think I ascended a game where I straight up never saw taming period. 20:17 Or else didn't ID it until midway through Gehennom. 20:17 taming is very rare 20:18 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Rog Dro Fem Cha) wished for "blessed magic harp", on T:109970 (1 day, 6:17:52) 20:31 haha i had no idea it was "telepathy". you learn something new every day! 20:32 and to answer Loggers's original query: g - an uncursed +0 helm of telepathy and telepathy 20:32 -!- arahael has joined #evilhack 20:33 \o/ 20:34 a double telepathy helm should give twice the range 20:34 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Con Orc Fem Cha), 11377 points, T:8821, withered away 20:35 [hdf-us] [evil] eggandhull (Sam Gia Mal Law) had Grayswandir bestowed upon him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:21149 (5:04:36) 20:35 noisytoot brings up a good point 20:36 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Con Orc Fem Cha), 168 points, T:378, killed by a fox, while fainted from lack of food 20:37 -!- arahael has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:37 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:3467 (0:28:39) 20:39 this would be a very old bug 20:40 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Con Orc Mal Cha), 37 points, T:218, killed by a sewer rat 20:40 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3915 (0:31:55) 20:41 !setmintc 500 20:41 terrapin: [hdf-au][hdf-eu][hdf-us] Min reported turncount for terrapin set to 500 20:43 easy fix would just be to disallow esp oprop on head gear 20:45 or remove helms of telepathy and replace them with helms of warning or something 20:45 i like using helm of telepathy when playing a non casting role 20:46 Which wouldn't care about them being metallic, yeah. 20:46 you can obtain easy slotless warning fromn the magic 8-ball 20:46 [hdf-us] [evil] hasselhoff (Kni Dro Mal Cha) polymorphed his first object, on T:9117 (7:30:47) 20:46 the beauty of removing helms of telepathy is that you can still wear a helm of ESP if you want 20:46 I'm still of a mind to suggest mind blast/psychic blast buffs for illithids wearing the helm, because I think it really should just do that anyway. 20:47 that would be cool 20:47 hmm 20:48 grr black dragon totally blocks this stupid healer 20:49 In any event I just find "removal as immediate first recourse" to be a lame way of handling things personally, much less game balance things. 20:50 helm of telepathy isnt going away 20:51 kill it 20:51 with fire 20:51 I'm also a fair bit more stubborn about it since I tried to be even-handed in suggesting as much to someone in a civil manner and getting nothing but backhanded bullshit for my troubles, because fuck trying to be nice to people - but I digress. 20:51 kill it. kill it dead 20:51 * Loggers_VIII gives umbire a hug 20:51 But somehow I'm supposed to take the idea that the CoMR be removed seriously, because I don't know fuckyou. 20:51 sorry, umbire, i didn't mean to be insulting 20:52 well this took a turn 20:52 all my ideas are of the toss-it-out-there-and-see-if-it-floats variety 20:52 que??? comr??? 20:52 You two aren't insulting, this is just the bugbear I have about the general notion of "remove (x) as first fix". 20:52 Because, well, it unironically lead to that as a suggestion so. 20:53 well I am not an advocate of removig comr so don't worry 20:53 due to supply chain issues, all armor will not exist until next spring 20:53 CoMRades unite! 20:54 I really should've just asked if they'd hit their head recently at that suggestion for all the unkindness it got me later. 20:54 yes, i hit my head pretty much every day 20:54 who said to remove comr lmao 20:54 should be easy if it isnt cursed 20:55 here krm26, wear this football helmet 20:55 anyway, if you want to remove comr from the game, play a tortle or giant, problem solved! 20:55 football helmet of telepathy 20:55 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) had a pair of water walking boots entrusted to her by Hermes, on T:39664 (12:26:57) 20:55 nice, jesus sandals 20:56 i need a spellbook of Any Offensive Spell for this black dragon 20:57 Do you have a bugbear about bugbears? 20:57 Hilarious. 20:57 my bugbear is hobgoblins. bugbears are my hobgoblin 20:57 sheesh -21ac dorf 21:00 Oh wow, I was just reminded the same person thought food detection was useless enough to go. 21:01 Which, considering the recent deal with misjudging corpse ages... lmao. 21:01 And if I may suggest, rofl. 21:02 who are you talking about Umbire 21:02 also if you have food detection you get warned of the eye of vecna 21:02 ^ (I caused that. no need to clap) 21:02 * K2 doesnt clap 21:02 I get that a lot :) 21:02 heh 21:03 https://i.imgflip.com/zie38.jpg 21:03 -!- xdminsy has joined #evilhack 21:03 I never use food detection: by the time I can cast skilled detect food or have enough spare blessed food detection scrolls, I don't have issues with finding food and have a way of curing sickness. 21:04 food detection is not very useful but meh I can live with it existing 21:04 i can't say i cast it much but i very much enjoy it on hobbits 21:04 i never use it either unless I find it early and want to train up divination skill 21:04 but it does have its uses 21:04 and there's no hunger penalty in casting it 21:05 also the recent deal with misjudging corpse ages is a 100% Skill Issue 21:05 because if you're aware of it just walk onto another square so the gnome zombie steps off of the gnome corpse square 21:05 No points for guessing what they'd be solved by. 21:05 what's this corpse hullabaloo? 21:05 electric hullabaloo? 21:06 ok I am leaving for now later 21:06 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed] 21:06 I think I understand better (not that I didn't previously) what paxed meant when he described most of the suggestions the devteam as being two tons of ass. 21:06 a game as popular and with the longevity that nethack has, i'm sure they've heard almost everything 21:07 but imo you want to listen 21:07 every so often a good idea will come by 21:07 or a good idea springs from a not so good idea 21:08 i have enough experience now being a variant dev, I can make that statement with some authority 21:08 Misjudging corpse ages is more of a UI issue, and it's not always possible to do that if you're low on food or you need to kill the gnome before it kills you. 21:09 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) killed Aphrodite, on T:40221 (12:40:41) 21:13 (The better solution is to #name every monster you encounter) 21:13 or cast food detection 21:13 tools are available, its up to you on whether to use thyem or not 21:13 -y 21:13 By the time you can do that, you can usually cure sickness. 21:14 or (in evilhack) play a hobbit 21:14 food sense from turn 1 21:15 The "recent deal with misjudging corpse ages" may or may not be related to me dying to that in notdNetHack before I had any method of curing sickness or food detection available, but I now think it may also have been caused by something dNetHack/madman-specific that doesn't apply to EvilHack. 21:15 ah madman 21:15 i have not played the role 21:15 how difficult is that? 21:15 -!- Umbire is now known as Guest1917 21:15 -!- Guest1917 has quit [Killed (cadmium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))] 21:15 -!- Umbire has joined #evilhack 21:15 Specifically: They start with the delusions madness and I'm not sure if killing a monster always reveals its real identity, so it's possible it was a gnome zombie and I was hallucinating that it was a gnome and it didn't get revealed to me. 21:16 that sounds like a difficult starting role to say the least 21:16 You would be correct, K2. 21:17 You start in a cursed straitjacket (which acts as a cursed two-handed weapon and blocks bare-handed attacks so you can only kick) and with an angry god. You also have the ability to summon a secret whisperer on a timeout and costing pw, which temporarily buffs your attacks, and the ability to mind blast for pw. 21:18 ...I would also think it further cause to be a bit more discerning, but what do I know. 21:18 Also 75 sanity, a high drunkenness score of 30 (meaning booze doesn't restore sanity until you level to 10), some booze, and the delusions madness. 21:18 Also most roles don't have reliable casting of cure sickness, if indeed they have spellcasting at all. 21:18 They have unicorn horns 21:19 which will usually work before food poisoning kills you 21:19 #removeunicornhorns 21:19 unicorn poaching is getting out of hand! 21:19 heh 21:19 unihorns curse on use! 21:20 (in gehennom) 21:20 The point being "access to cure sickness isn't really too sensible a barometer for justifying not using already-available resources". 21:20 Incidentally, detect food is the first spell I've picked up in this Hack'EM game. 21:21 k2, is there something weird where when the big room is on level 11, ludios isn't generated in any future vaults? 21:21 or is it all in my head 21:22 It's certainly possible to be able to use food detection before you can cure sickness, but not very common and it wasn't in this specific case. 21:23 Even if you start with detect food as a wizard, I think you need to get divination from unskilled to skilled to get the intrinsic. 21:24 krm26 i would think that's all in your head? i dont see why the bigroom forming on dlvl 11 would prevent ft ludios portal from forming 21:25 stupid head of mine 21:25 Yeah, I'm struggling to imagine outside of like, the implementation for creating the portal in the first vault past DL10 being somehow wonky. 21:25 ludios is not guaranteed, right? just heavily biased? 21:25 In EvilHack's case, yes. 21:25 Un does this also but has the fallback of just jamming the portal on Medusa's Island if it doesn't generate by then. 21:27 this is just the third game i recall with a big room on 11 and then no ludios in several vaults, whereas every other game this year i think i've had ludios in the very first vault 21:29 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Con Orc Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3946 (0:48:41) 21:30 Hence mentioning the wonky implementation, because even if we're relying on memory, you never know. 21:32 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Con Orc Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4287 (0:51:36) 21:33 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 10646 points, T:7756, killed by a killer bee 21:37 -!- dbanethacker has joined #evilhack 21:41 Granted it'd have to be some pretty deep-seated wonk, because part of me feels like this might've been noticed sooner. Iunno, I'm not a variant dev yet. 21:49 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Con Orc Mal Cha), 5474 points, T:5367, killed by a drow raider 21:51 [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±5] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/2428df584a7b...123f15f5ec54 21:52 [EvilHack] k21971 123f15f - Wearing a helm of telepathy can focus psychic attacks, tweak to ESP object property. 21:52 you tweaking K2? 21:53 heh 21:53 that could mean a few different things 21:54 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 9398 points, T:8821, poisoned by a rabid dog 21:55 killed by a dog bite? 21:55 rabid dog 22:05 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack 22:08 Oh, I didn't think my suggestion would even be adopted that quickly. 22:11 surprise 22:11 Neat. 22:16 I have no enemies 22:16 wrong channel 22:22 [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:4490 (0:47:54) 22:27 :P 22:27 * Umbire gets angry! 22:28 noo! 22:28 sorry umbire I regret to inform you I have no enemies, so you can't get angry at me 22:28 * Umbire bites! 22:29 dammit 22:29 quick, throw food at him 22:29 * Loggers_VIII teleports to nowhere! 22:29 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed] 22:40 [hdf-us] [evil] eggandhull (Sam Gia Mal Law) had a pair of steel gauntlets of power entrusted to him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:23991 (5:44:21) 22:42 -!- arahael has joined #evilhack 22:47 -!- arahael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:48 [hdf-us] [evil] eggandhull (Sam Gia Mal Law) had a mithril kabuto entrusted to him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:25148 (5:52:26) 22:53 [hdf-us] [evil] eggandhull (Sam Gia Mal Law) had a bone spear entrusted to him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:26246 (5:56:53) 23:05 -!- dbanethacker has quit [Quit: Client closed] 23:13 -!- k3ut0i has joined #evilhack 23:29 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) had a knife entrusted to her by The Lady, on T:50033 (14:13:59) 23:37 [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) had a stiletto entrusted to her by The Lady, on T:50420 (14:21:32)